I Have to Choose: My Boyfriend or My Career

I Have to Choose: My Boyfriend or My CareerEvan,

First, thanks for the advice you provide on this blog. I read it religiously, and it always gives me a lot to consider in my own relationship. My boyfriend and I have been together for five months, and are both in our late 20s. We’re a good match. I’m happier than I can ever remember being. We’ve met all of the usual checkpoints for a new relationship – we established exclusivity within the first month, have met each other’s parents (in fact, he’s meeting my family this weekend), and freely and sincerely express our love to one another. We talk about a future together. I believe this relationship could have a real future. My boyfriend is kind, loving, and devoted to me, and I see myself loving him more each day.

However, an issue has emerged. Over a year before my boyfriend and I began dating, I initiated a job search with the intent to relocate to my favorite city (Austin, TX), where I lived for a few years for graduate school. That search was unsuccessful, but the recruiter I was working with recently contacted me with an opportunity to move to Austin. Professionally, this is a great move for me, but personally, this is a disaster.

Last night, I told my boyfriend about the opportunity (since I have a final interview in Austin next week), and he told me that he loves me and he wants me to have a fulfilling career, but that if I move to Austin, it will be the end of our relationship. He refuses to take part in a long-distance relationship (I knew this about him from the time we first began dating), and he doesn’t want to move to Texas. He did say that he might be willing to relocate sometime in the future, but that any move would be “for the person he will spend the rest of his life with,” and that it’s still too early to know whether I’m that person. I understand his position, and I love him, but I also love myself and my career. I am willing to do long-distance, but he isn’t. Both of us could feasibly pursue our chosen careers in either location.

My question, Evan, is what would you do, and what should I do? I do have a great job in our current city, but Austin has always been in my plans. When in a relationship is it appropriate to choose a partner over a career move, and is that appropriate here? – Victoria

Dear Victoria,

Men want to choose. We don’t want to be sold.

Glad you enjoy the blog.

Glad the advice has helped you.

Glad you have an amazing boyfriend.

But you’ve already answered your own question, so I’m not quite sure I’m supposed to say.

“Austin has always been in my plans.”

There you go.

You’ve given him an ultimatum – “I’m moving to Austin. Are you coming?”

He’s given you an answer – “You’re great, but it’s too soon to make the commitment to move to a strange city I don’t want to be in for a new girlfriend.”

You just don’t seem to want to accept his answer.

You have more leverage with a man in a long relationship than in a short one.

Your suggested compromise is a long-distance relationship. It’s a perfectly reasonable solution, apart from the fact that it doesn’t make your boyfriend happy at all.

Long-distance, to you, means that he’s going to have to fly to see you for a few years and ultimately decide that he wants to move to be with you. But notice that he’s the one who has to make the sacrifice if he wants the relationship to survive, not you.

This goes to illustrate a few common dating principles:

1)   If you tell a man what to do and he listens, he’s not really a man.

2)   Men want to choose. We don’t want to be sold.

3)   You have more leverage with a man in a long relationship than in a short one.

Essentially, you’re TELLING him that your future is in Austin, no matter what, and that if he knows what’s good for him, he’s eventually gonna end up there.

If I were your boyfriend, I’d personally like to have more of a say in my future than that.

Thus, you’re not “wrong” for wanting him to move to be with you or submit to a long-distance relationship against his will. You’re only “wrong” in assuming this arrangement is equally good for him as it is for you.

It’s not. And he’s let you know that, in no uncertain terms.

So now you have two choices, Victoria:

1. Don’t move to Austin yet. Build your relationship with this man for a few years. Get married. Negotiate a potential move to Austin with the love of your life down the road. He may be open to it, as you said. And I promise: Austin is not going anywhere.

2. Move to Austin. Find another man who loves you. Marry him instead.

Both are perfectly defensible choices.

In fact, if Austin is that important to you, #2 seems like a much better bet, because I have no doubt there will be tons of quality guys there and you are GUARANTEED of being in Austin.

But, to be very clear as you sort through your turmoil: it’s not your boyfriend who is choosing his current city over you; you’re choosing Austin over him.

Join our conversation (188 Comments).
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  1. 31

    For my money, I think that when you are unsure between 2 options, and neither one feels completely right, I don’t think there is any harm in waiting a little longer before you make a decision. As you said, you’ve only just received the job offer. Let the decision incubate for a little, and you may find that one option starts to feel much more right than the other.

    Personally, I would hold onto this relationship, and give it a chance to develop. It sounds like a wonderful one, and those don’t come around all the time. Your boyfriend’s stance sounds consistent with what I think most great, self-respecting guys I know would have said. I think Evan’s point that the longer you are in a relationship with a guy, the more leverage you have, and the more he is willing to compromise for you should be given a lot of weight.

    If things become serious, he may well be willing to move to make you happy. Then again, perhaps not. There are no clear-cut answers here, but this is what I would do.

    Good luck.

  2. 32

    I can see where he’s coming from, because honestly…. my answer would be the same. And i’m a girl! I wouldn’t leave my home, my family, my friends, the place where I’m comfortable and happy for the unknown for… a boyfriend? No way. A husband, yes. But a boyfriend? nope. A relationship (in your case of a few months) isn’t solid enough for me (if I were in that position) to even consider making such a drastic change. So in that sense I can understand his stance. Because mine would be the same.

    By the same token, you’re so young and this is your time to make things happen in your life. Don’t hold back on pursuing your dreams and aspirations. Because if you do, then you’ll be thinking “what if, what if”.

  3. 33

    I’m surprised by all the comments romanticizing the idea of moving to Austin. Yes, it’s a dream of hers, but so what? Just because you’ve decided you like something doesn’t mean it’s a tragic loss if you weigh your (changed) options later and decide to hold off. As Evan said, Austin’s not going anywhere.

    Live long enough and you’ll realize that every place–or at least your life in it–is pretty much equivalent. Austin has cool stuff to do? You’ll spent 0.5% of your time doing it (and the rest of the time living like you do now: working, going out for dinner, catching a movie, hanging out at home, sleeping). Austin has cool people? The strangers there probably aren’t any more fun than the strangers where you are.

    Relocate, and in a year you’ll find you’re not living in a magical paradise, you’re living your days pretty much the way you are now. Except without the wonderful guy you’ve got.

    Good relationships aren’t that easy to find. Stick with your guy.

    1. 33.1

      Thank you Christine for being the voice of reason and good common sense.

      Everyones so caught up in the “opportunity”. Oppotunities come up everyday. No matter how wonderful the place or job or even the money is, it will be of little value sitting there alone or with somone for someones sake.

      The truth is, its hard to find compatibility. Theres no comparison between finding a good job or living in a nice city with being with somone who truley loves you.

      The only sensible thing to do is stick around with this guy and see how it works out. The what if of how this may have turned out will haunt you forever, regardless of how wonderful Austin may be. Besides…IF it doeant work out…Austin will be there.

      I would assume the sane respone if I were him. If you would be willing to jeopardise a great relationship and the possibility of a lifetime together, then clearly your not as commited to making things work as i hoped you would be.

      If the tables were turned, there would be no debate in my mind. I would put my desires second to making things work with the woman i love…regardless of the outcome.

      What is experience without someone special to share it with?

      I would go so far as to bet that when he sees your level of commitment, he’ll most likely be a whole lot more confident in you and your devotion that it would make him a lot more willing to go with you to persue your dream…together.

  4. 34


    Don’t give up a career for a man, and don’t give up a man for a career.

    The issue isn’t really a career or where you live as these desires will change throughout your life. It is about what kind of relationship you wish to build and how you both negotiate each others desires.

    How about him? What does he want to do? Where does he see his future? And have you discussed building that future together?

    My current partner and I(we are both older and wiser 😛 ), have talked about many things we’d like to share. We are however very much ready to build a life with another person. Meaning we are both willing to move, we are both willing to change jobs to a degree, we are both willing to compromise on financial means and desires. It means the building of our relationship and commitment is part of our future plans, not that we will give up “everything” for the other, just that we will compromise with each other in mind.

    If people don’t have that desire, but are more long the lines of “well we love each other and want the other person to follow us on our individual life journey and be apart of our individual life journey” then it isn’t really a relationship but more a matter of convienence. I don’t say that harshly it is something that requires a lot of thought.

    And don’t waste too much time in your youth trying to figure it out. Do you want to build a relationship or not? A career is no substitute, but neither is hanging around in limbo hoping for something more. Don’t make the mistake a lot of young people make in relationships, by kind of sliding into one without any direction or goal.

    Evan gave good advice. The choice is yours. MAKE IT deliberately..don’t just fall into it.

  5. 35

    Well, if he’s saying that five months is too soon for him to move for you, it’s also too soon for you to not move for him. What are the odds that this guy isn’t going to dump you a couple months after you decide to stay? I’d go to Austin – you’ve dreamt of that long before you met him, and he doesn’t seem willing to try to work something out.

  6. 36


    I’m going to buck the trend here.
    If the relationship is a good one I would choose the relationship.

    Here’s why – Good relationships don’t just come along every day and are not disposable. Especially if you click really well together.

    Depending on your chosen field you could always find a job and move to Austin if things don’t work out.
    But if you breakup and move to Austin then change your mind you may be out of luck.

    This is a touch one because you’ve only been together 5 months. You guys are still wasted on the wonderful brain drugs aka Chemistry 🙂 So yes your judgment might be a bit skewed.

    I can understand his position. Put yourself in his shoes and you might feel the same about moving.

    Again this is tough sorry you have to make this difficult choice.

  7. 37

    I agree with Ruby @30. What bothers me a bit is that the boyfriend doesn’t seem to be willing (right now, at least) to discuss a possible compromise. I can understand if he doesn’t want to do long-distance — it is hard — but if the relationship is as promising as Victoria describes it, I have to wonder how committed he really is if he simply decides “it’s over” if she moves to Austin.

    That might ultimately be the decision anyway, but it sounds like he doesn’t even want to attempt something long distance. I agree that he shouldn’t move to Austin, but I wonder why he’s so against compromising.

    Ultimately, it’s Victoria’s decision to make, but I think (as in my situation with the guy going to the FBI) one can figure out how much a boyfriend is truly invested in the relationship by his response to changes like these.

  8. 38

    What Bluewoman and Mia said. It’s not like they’ve been together for ten years. It’s five months. Five freaking months, people! They don’t even know each other that well. To sacrifice your life’s dream for someone she’s only recently met is a lot to ask of Victoria, in my opinion.

    To those who say relocating doesn’t change a thing, as someone who moved from Eastern Europe to America, I beg to differ. At any rate, if it didn’t matter where you lived, people wouldn’t be leaving my Midwestern city in large numbers, never to come back. Apparently it matters to those thousands of people.

    I have to add, the BF’s comment that he would not move to Texas bothered me, as from what I understand Austin is very different from the rest of Texas. Has he ever been to Austin? Maybe he could visit and see what he thinks? What are his reasons for not wanting to move to Texas? Maybe those reasons do not apply to Austin?

    1. 38.1

      Yes, I agree……where you move in this world can determine things like better opportunities and overall happiness. It does make a difference. Environment always plays a part in a persons outlook on life, I don’t care what anyone says. It absolutely does make a difference. If a person doesn’t plan to spend many years in the city they met their partner in, it is probably best to find out the partner’s willingness to move to another location when you first meet them. Also things like willingness to get married or  have children are important things to discuss when you first meet someone. If the man she is with is not even willing to try to figure out a compromise with this woman, he’s probably not worth her time anyway. This guy could have at least tried to suggest another city that he would be willing to move to and asked the woman if she would be willing to move with him there in about 6 months to a year, after they have invested more time in cultivating their relationship. If this woman knows that Austin is a dream of hers that she can’t do without and this man is absolutely unhappy with the idea of moving to Austin…..there is probably nothing else to discuss. Unfortunately, the man I’m with lied to me when we first met and told me that he was interested in moving to the same place I wanted to move.  After another full year, when the time came for us to make the move….he backed out and told me he wanted us to stay in the same, small town with no opportunities. I realized at that point that I can do much better than a 40 something year old man who can’t make a solid decision about what he wants in life.  At least this young lady is not dealing with that type of a looser. Best wishes to Victoria. I hope she finds a better relationship in Austin. Austin is a great place to live!

  9. 39
    Karmic Equation

    You already have your answer, you just don’t want to believe it. Sounds like you are still trying to negotiate something that really isn’t negotiable…his feelings for you…not Austin:

    “…but that any move would be “for the person he will spend the rest of his life with,” and that it’s still too early to know whether I’m that person.”

    You are already contemplating giving up a great job in a dream city for your BF, which means you think he’s “the one” already. But for him, the jury is still out whether YOU are the one for him. He’s not as into you as you are into him.

    Move to Austin. Live the life you dreamed. If your then ex-BF decides later that you are the one after all, you can both re-start the relationship and negotiate what needs to be negotiated. Assuming you haven’t met someone else. That’s the risk he takes for not loving you enough to follow your dreams with you.

    If the reality of Austin doesn’t match your dreams, you can always move back…and re-start the relationship if you’re both available willing.

    If he’s not willing or you’re not willing, then you guys weren’t meant to be after all.

    Five months into a relationship is too soon to give up a dream…but it’s not too soon to follow one, imho. He has less to lose by following you and your dreams than you have to lose by not following your dreams. That’s the bottom line I see.

  10. 40

    Victoria, I would say go for Austin. There are no perfect men anyway, but there can be perfect jobs and perfect cities. If you are happy in your job, you are likely to bring more positiveness into your relationships. If you were engaged or married, it was worth sacrificing . But he has made it clear that he is not sure he wants to spend his life with you. So do you want to give up your dream for someone who may not be there in your life a few months or years down the lane ? If you give up this offer, he may even start taking you for granted.

    Congratulations on your new job offer and all the best whatever choice you make.

    1. 40.1

      No perfect men, but there is perfect cities and jobs? This sounds skewed and ridiculous. There is no such thing as perfect, no matter what topic or being. Everything will have a downside: men, cities, and even your dream job.
      I say give it a shot with this guy. If it doesn’t work out, move to Austin. Why is it so hard? Austin will always be there, but people? People are unique, and you will never meet the same people twice. No harm or loss trying your luck with your current partner. If it doesn’t work out, Austin is still there and you can move freely without any guilt then.

  11. 41

    I have to agree with Goldie and others who point to the newness of this relationship. I doubt the women who are being tough on this guy would uproot their lives after 5 months of dating. In fact, I can imagine the response would be almost exactly the same.

    Is he being too rigid? Probably. Will that be a problem down the line? I don’t know. In my opinion, neither of them are delivering ultimatums, but both are drawing lines in the sand in somewhat arbitrary ways, because they really don’t know each other well enough to truly decide.

    What matters to you most? And what actions will support that? Take the time to consider the questions, instead of feeling like you have to have answers today.

  12. 42

    @ Bluewoman 27:

    The other other side of the coin is this:

    Victoria moves to Austin. The city/job isn’t quite what she’d remembered/hoped. Now she’s stuck in a city/job with no BF.

    If she stays in her current city, and the BF later breaks up with her, she’s only back to where she was 5 months ago–same city, same job, no BF.

    1. 42.1

      On the latter option, if her and her bf don’t work out, she can move to Austin right after without any guilt or dilemma. Easy decision.

  13. 43

    @CupOfTea 25, I agree with your sentiments, often when we try to replicate something as it was good the first time round, the settings will always be variable and not constant, therefore you can never know if it will be as good as the first time.

    @Victoria, it’s a challenging decision to make and I would probably go with the option where I am least likely to feel regretful if it does not work out how I anticipated. Good luck!

  14. 44

    Joe #43

    Austin’s her dream city – I don’t think she’d feel stuck there. It’s not as if she can never meet another guy there.

    But she might deeply regret not taking the new job if she and her boyfriend break up. She would still probably want to move to Austin, but would now have to wait until another great opportunity came up.

  15. 45

    This man is not committed to her, neither is he making any noise about committing to her. In fact, he’s saying the opposite.

    I would say that Victoria’s desire to MOVE BACK to Austin is not a dream. It is a reality. She knows the place, she wants to return there to live, she has been clear about this with herself and with those around her, and now she has the opportunity to build a life there.

    Victoria has a long-standing relationship with that place. The love for a place can be as powerful as the love for a person.
    She does not have a long-standing relationship with the BF and he is dismissive of what is important to her and unwilling to explore options or compromises.

    Maybe her intuition is telling her that her real love is somewhere else and that’s why she likes that place so much.

  16. 46

    @Joe 43 I tend to agree with you.

    If her question was should I move to Austin to go to medical school in furtherance of my life long dream of becoming a doctor vs. staying in current city and not being a doctor or waiting for years to get in somewhere closer, then I would say go to Austin. That is a missed opportunity that can throw your life off track. In her shoes I would just stay in my current city and see where the relationship goes (if it’s a fabulous one). If they break up in 5 months, maybe that dream job won’t be there still in Austin. Maybe it won’t be for a few years. If she is talented (and she is young) something will come up in Austin or somewhere she decides is great. I changed my dream city in my 20s. But this is coming from someone who would put love first. I could be happy now in many cities (even pretty boring ones for the right person). So maybe something you can only learn by living. Also I tend to find real love and relationships rarely. If you are the kind of person who tends to always be in a relationship and falls in love easily then likely the move will be worth it for you. Depends how you see love and where you are in your life. Pretty sure either path is going to make you happy at some point or at least give you the life experiences we are all sharing with you on here.

  17. 47

    I say follow your heart. Let’s assume that he probably has all the information that you have about the job and cities being comparable in the sense that neither situation is awful, in fact both are more than acceptable. If he thought there might be more of a future, he would speak up. Something with the sentiment, “I can’t promise you anything. But I know I really like/love you and would like to spend more time with you to see where this goes. Please consider giving us more time.” If you move to Austin, you will likely find a man who is just as passionate about being in and enjoying Austin!

  18. 48

    Seriously, this guy has already told you how he feels about you and the relationship right now.

    Imagine he’s the one with the job offer. Would HE stay back for you?

  19. 49
    Anonymous Editor

    Here’s a flipside scenario – What if Victoria was working and living in Austin, Texas when her boyfriend of 5 months tells her one day that he’s managed to get his dream job in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania. Will she be willing to uproot herself and join him, thus leaving behind her dream job/place, friends, and family? Will she be willing to engage in a long-distance relationship, traveling back and forth to see each other every weekend/month, thus spending hundreds of dollars in travel expenses every year?

    If the two of you had been going out for 1-2 years, there’s a good chance that your boyfriend would likely be more willing to relocate (we guys don’t mind going the extra mile for a partner that we have long invested our time and effort in). But at 5 months, both of you are just only started to know each other. If I were in your boyfriend’s position, I would have likely given the same answer.

    As Evan said, I’m sure you’ll find a good man for you in Austin. All the best.

  20. 50

    Am I missing something or is the main message coming from the posters here that women have to give up everything to be with a man? Here’s the advice I’ve read on here:

    1) Don’t aspire to anything in your own right because his career is going to trump yours and you’re going to have to follow him wherever he goes.

    2) Don’t have any hobbies because he doesn’t care about them and you’re going to have to give them up when you have a baby anyway.

    3) Don’t be too good at anything because it’s going to turn him off.

    4) Don’t pursue any disciplined activity because it’s going to take time away from him, which will turn him off.

    4) Just be “cool” and maybe provide snacks while he sits on the couch with the game (his hobby), reveals in all sorts of small ways his attractions to other women (because he just can’t help himself), and mulls over whether or not he wants to be with you (because as long as there’s no drama and he wants to be with you, you’d be crazy to let this one go).

    5) Don’t fret, because once he’s committed and the naive you who knows nothing about parenting actually has a child, you will be so overwhelmed by the 24/7 responsibility that nothing else will matter.

    Why would any woman sign up for this, and why aren’t men speaking out against this negative stereotype of their gender? (Preferably by providing examples of ways they defy the stereotype.)

  21. 51

    This point has been made before regarding the “Austin dream”:

    I still live close to the town where I went to college and grad school (although technically it’s part of a large metropolitan area anyway), and occasionally go there for various occasions. I enjoyed living there when I was in college, and many things are still familiar about it, but some things have changed (that’s progress for you), and I wouldn’t want to live there again. Partly because the place has changed, and partly because I’ve changed.

  22. 52
    Karl R

    Janice said: (#51)
    “Here’s the advice I’ve read on here:
    1) Don’t aspire to anything in your own right because his career is going to trump yours and you’re going to have to follow him wherever he goes.”

    In my opinion, if both people have careers and one person wishes to move for their career, it’s going to cause stress and upheaval for both people.

    Neither my fiancée nor I expect to move for career purposes. That is one possible solution. But I would say that this issue is one that you should jointly consider before getting engaged.

    “2) Don’t have any hobbies because he doesn’t care about them and you’re going to have to give them up when you have a baby anyway.”

    You can have hobbies, but don’t expect it to generally increase your value as a potential partner. (I don’t consider most of my hobbies to increase my value as a partner.)

    Having kids will require both of you to cut back on your hobbies, or possibly give some of them up completely. Since I’m not having kids, that’s not an issue for me.

    “3) Don’t be too good at anything because it’s going to turn him off.”

    If you’re really good at sex, it’s going to be a major turn-on. If you’re really good at most other things, it will be neither a turn-on nor a turn-off.

    Do you get turned on thinking about dating a man who is the champion of his bowling league? It’s nice that he has a hobby which he enjoys and excells at, but it’s hardly going to cause women to pursue him.

    “4) Don’t pursue any disciplined activity because it’s going to take time away from him, which will turn him off.”

    That depends on the time commitment of the activity. If it takes one or two nights per week, no problem. If it takes 6 or 7 nights per week, you might as well give up on dating.

    After the first few dates, most of my relationships (that went anywhere) involved us getting together at least two nights per week. If both people have 3 evenings blocked off for scheduled activities, it’s extremely likely that they will have two nights available for each other. If both people have 5 evenings blocked off for scheduled activities, it’s extremely unlikely that their two free nights will match up. At 4 nights per week, it’s a coin toss.

    “4) Just be ‘cool’ and maybe provide snacks while he sits on the couch with the game (his hobby),”

    Would you date a man who gave you grief about pursuing your hobby?

    “reveals in all sorts of small ways his attractions to other women”

    Would you date a man who was so insecure and jealous that he gets upset if you look at or mention another man whom you find attractive?

    “and mulls over whether or not he wants to be with you”

    If you were dating a man who you like, but whom you’re not certain is husband material, how would you respond to a high-pressure proposal?

    Janice asked: (#51)
    “Why would any woman sign up for this, and why aren’t men speaking out against this negative stereotype of their gender?”

    You’re generally complaining about advice and situations that apply equally to women and men. For some reason you find this intolerable to women and insulting to men.

    I’m just making a guess, but I think your perspective is going to cause you to struggle in relationships. You might want to follow your own advice and avoid romantic relationships for now.

  23. 53

    Karl, Janice is bringing up points from multiple threads here. And from what I see, her general point is that if you add up some of the advice being given to women in the comments, it sounds like women should should return being like a 1950’s housewife.

    Many of the individual pieces could, on their own, be decent advice depending on the situation. Although others, such as the idea that only a man’s job is worth re-locating for, or that he’ll never re-locate for a woman, need to be challenged.

    I fail to see where Janice’s comments will cause her to “struggle” in relationships though. She’s questioning a collection of extremes. Others have already questioned each one of those things on her list – she’s just put them all in one post.

    1. 53.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Nathan, I’m not sure what the term is for taking a moderate argument and twisting it into something extreme (straw man, perhaps?), but Janice provided a perfect example of that.

      We see this bit of trickery on the blog all the time. I’ll say that perhaps you shouldn’t be such a slave to chemistry. She’ll reply, “What? You expect me to go out with some fat, ugly, unemployed loser that I’m not remotely attracted to?”

      Then I have to go back and remind her that this is NOT what I said at all.

      People who see things in black and white, like, say, many Republicans (sorry – had to go there), have a really hard time reconciling the facts with their feelings.

      The fact is that anyone who is on the extremes of ANYTHING is going to struggle. The woman with four dogs. The guy who works 80 hours a week. The religious person who insists that her partner worship in the exact same way that she does. The militant atheist who can’t respect others’ beliefs. The woman who goes windsurfing 30 weeks a year. The man who insists on being at all Boston Red Sox home games and traveling to spring training. There are people with hobbies and there are people who demand that their partners cater their lives to their passions.

      If you can’t see the difference between those two things, I’m not sure how to illustrate it better.

  24. 54
    Karl R

    nathan said: (#54)
    “the idea that only a man’s job is worth re-locating for, or that he’ll never re-locate for a woman, need to be challenged.”

    The only person who said anything close to that was Janice (#51), and I challenged her on it.

    The next closest anyone got to that statement was helene: (#26)
    “I think its important to point out that as a rule, men DO NOT relocate for women or women’s careers – even if you are married.”

    I can’t find enough factual data to support or challenge helene’s assertion.

    Evan (#55) is correct in identifying Janice’s statement (#51) as a straw man argument.

  25. 55

    Janice, I agree that the image that emerges from some of these comments makes men seem awful and marriage like a waste of time. I’m sure there is some truth to these things, and many men who think like this. Hell, even some ideas that Evan has about marriage – which I have no doubt are widely shared by men – I dispute.

    But there isn’t one type of man or one type of marriage. I don’t see a lot of these distasteful ideas about men present in my single guy friends – depends who you hang out with. If you’re hanging around traditional men and alphas ( I’d consider Evan an alpha) you’ll get one set of behaviors and assumptions that’s very different than some other types of guys- find the guys who are compatible with YOU.

  26. 56

    [email protected]: Yes, you have my meaning right, and these were things things that I noticed among the comments in multiple threads. There are the specific points that people make, and then there is the general tone of things. The tone arises out of the specific points, and you don’t have to twist anything to hear it.

    [email protected]: I pretty much would be interested in a champion bowler. But this is a blog for women, so most of the advice plays out that way. The commentators usually do not couch their statements in gender-neutral language. Wish there were more of that, actually.

  27. 57

    I was considering Janice’s other recent comments in addition to what she said in this one. I don’t see her as having the pattern of, for example, the Amy that haunted both of our blogs.

    Perhaps I am wrong, but she seems to be a newer commenter. And given the blowback there’s been about hobbies/passions, children, and a few other things, I could see why she might respond in such. Note that I didn’t say I agreed with the framing of her last comment: it was a short summary, with the main point being that I disagreed with Karl’s assessment of her dating status. It seemed like an unnecessary jab. In fact, I actually agreed with much of what he said leading up to those last two sentences, but she might agree with him as well on those points for all we know.

    Anyway, I would rather Janice come on and speak about what her intention was with that comment than assume. There just isn’t a body of evidence – unless I have missed it – suggesting she is running on extremes and seeing everything in black/white terms.

  28. 58

    Same situation…kinda. Moved to Austin for a job I loved, met a guy immediately, fell in and love and then he told me he was moving to New England for grad school. He told me I was welcome to come with him. I did. I missed Austin, hell I still do, but I know I made the right decision. Don’t take a great guy for granted, they are much harder to come by than great cities.

  29. 59

    While I’m not sure that I would agree with all of Janice’s points, I do think that some of what she says strikes a chord for me. The notion that men don’t care about a woman’s hobbies and accomplishments sounds like b.s. to me, and always has. Sure, men want women who make them feel good, but they also want women they can share interests and experiences with. Perhaps I’m in the minority, but this has been especially true for me since I don’t want kids, and most of the men I’ve dated either already had them and didn’t want more, or haven’t wanted them either.

  30. 60

    [email protected]: I wasn’t quoting anyone verbatim, if that’s what’s required to make a point on here. My views on relationship are pretty open–I don’t care if women give up their careers and their passions to get married or if they follow their men around the planet and carry the babies in a pouch and breast feed them into kindergarten (to offer up an extreme). But if that’s always the way the thought here goes (and not nec that it’s coming from the host–maybe most women think that way and want that–can’t say)–well, a little too narrow for my tastes.

    What is your blog? I’ll check it out.

    And not currently dating because I live with someone (three years on). Not planning on getting married, so no cow and milk comments. 🙂

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