If A Guy Hasn’t Finalized Saturday Plans by Thursday, Am I Wrong to Make Other Plans?

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Recently, I went on an amazing four dates with a guy who was objectively handsome, intelligent (three Ivy league degrees), and in a successful, well-paying job. We had excellent chemistry, he was initiating our once-weekly dates, in contact with me via phone/email 2-3 times a week, I was sitting back and mirroring, and I thought everything was going smoothly. After our fourth date on a Saturday night, he immediately asked for a fifth date though he did not specify when that date would occur. He called once more that week and we talked about how great the fourth date was, but he did not specify plans for a fifth date. Eventually Thursday evening rolled around and I still had not heard from him. I wanted to make plans for Saturday, so I went ahead and did so with some friends. When I let him know that I had made plans (I also noted that I enjoyed spending time with him and I was looking forward to going out again), he basically sent me a tersely worded email expressing his disappointment and I haven’t heard from him since.

So, should I have made myself more available to him? I considered keeping my Saturday evening open in the hope I would go out with him, but he hadn’t locked me down, so that’s why I went ahead and make plans. Does mirroring imply keeping myself available so a guy can ask me out up until the day before the date? To me that felt inconsiderate, but to him, he might have been upset because he intended to ask me out, but I had already made plans. I’m very torn on this and I’m not sure how to handle this scenario in the future.

Melinda

Yeah, this is my concept of “mirroring” run amok.

Sorry about that, Why He Disappeared readers; it’s a LITTLE more nuanced than “do nothing.”

Even if a guy is confident, masculine, alpha and interested in you, that doesn’t mean you act indifferent towards him. Which is exactly what you did when you made other plans on Saturday night although he’d already intimated that he wanted to see you again.

Even if a guy is confident, masculine, alpha and interested in you, that doesn’t mean you act indifferent towards him.

So allow me to reiterate once and for all: the purpose of mirroring — which is to say, reacting to his advances instead of making advances of your own — is to avoid chasing the cute guy. It is for anxious, insecure women who always find themselves propping up relationships with ambivalent men by texting, calling and making plans.

Your situation, Melinda, was different. You have a guy who’s seen you four times, who asked you out for a fifth date, who followed up by phone just to connect afterwards, and whose biggest crime was not confirming/nailing down a time for the date itself.

Looking back, don’t you think you would have gotten your fifth date if you’d texted him on Thursday, “Hey sexy, just wanted to confirm we were on for Saturday night. A girl needs a few days to plan what to wear! XO.”

I sure do.

Believe it or not, men don’t play games. They’re interested or they’re not.

This guy was interested in you. And because you didn’t approach him directly with a perfectly reasonable question shoring up your plans, you ended up alienating him.

And if you’re confused about the difference between confirming plans and initiating plans, here’s what it looks like when a woman reaches out to a man out of insecurity that she’ll never hear from him again:

“Hey, Bryan, I haven’t heard from you in awhile. When am I going to see you again? How about a picnic on Sunday? Hope to hear from you soon…”

Believe it or not, men don’t play games. They’re interested or they’re not.

Weak, needy, insecure, desperate — all the things that the first “Hey sexy” text is not.

Long story short: Men don’t play games. You shouldn’t either.

Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

By the way, there’s a great video about this in Love U, called “The 2 Exceptions to Mirroring.”

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Comments:

  1. 21
    Suz

    I found this to be a really interesting thread.   I agree with Evan but I’ve been in the OPs position.   I am a planner and if a fella I’ve gone out with a few times and enjoyed their company doesn’t nail down a Saturday date by Thursday I will make other plans. I have done the initiate sexy follow up Friday and been blown off, put on hold “something came up”, etc.   When it’s the first month and you’re not quite into a relationship, any number of things can be clouding the scene. Particularly exes or someone else they were interested in, etc.

    I recently met a man who has been so decisive in his interest and intentions I am doing nothing but mirroring.   Even though we aren’t geographically compatible…he’s three hours away.   But.   If we find this is the relationship that we want…the person of our hopes and dreams.   He is clear then we figure the rest out.   Funny. I just moved and found my dream job.   But he’s semi retired and I can retire in 3-5 years.   So there’s some flexibility.   Honestly, I never considered long distance dating.

  2. 22
    CaliforniaGirl

    Four dates once a week and then uncertain fifth date? Hmmm, he is not into you or he wanted a way out, I agree with previous commenters.

    Just a month after I met a guy who is interested in me, now I can tell the difference. After 1.5 years of flakes, ghosting, uncertainty whether he will call or not, finally I met a guy who is just everything Evan is talking about.   In a month we spent 3 Thursday-Sunday weekends together, he calls and texts every day and plans a weekend on Monday 🙂 We live close and have similar work schedules,   so it works out perfectly. From the first date I knew he is interested, I didn’t even think about it. I never initiated a text or a call in a month and I think he is not used to it and he likes the pursuit.

    I really just now realized how it’s supposed to be and it feels so good.

    Btw, I met the guy on Match where my profile was written by Evan’s service and he said that it was the best profile he’d seen in his life 🙂

     

    1. 22.1
      Joanne

      “From the first date I knew he is interested, I didn’t even think about it.” This is key.

      I think what we/OP should look for is a courtship period where things hum along easily until the daters become a couple.   Easy flow (at least in a promising new  relationship) is probably a sign that the daters are in sync, and a little misunderstanding is not going to wreck everything.

       

       

       

  3. 23
    GoWiththeFlow

    It’s interesting to read everyone’s impressions of what went down.

    On date #4 LW’s guy said let’s go out again, I’ll call you.   No date, time, or place was set.   She wanted to go out with him for round #5.   The talked on the phone sometime between Sunday and Wednesday but he didn’t “specify plans” for a 5th date.   So thursday rolled around and he hadn’t contacted her to set a date, time, and place, which wasn’t his typical M.O. up to that point.   So she went along and made plans with friends for Saturday.

    Then, somehow, LW lets her guy-friend know that she made plans with her friends for Saturday, while at the same time telling him how much she enjoys spending time with him and wants to see him soon.   It’s unclear whether she told him or messaged him that information on her own, or if she let him know she made plans after he contacted her.   He emailed her a “terse” message expressing his disappointment and she hasn’t heard from him again.

    Clearly they each held a set of assumptions about the other’s behavior.   She thought that if he wanted to set up a date for Saturday, he would have gotten back to her with firm plans by Thursday. It’s not clearly explained what was discussed about a possible date #5 on their call earlier in the week, but I wonder if based off that phone convo he thought they had a date set for Saturday with time and place yet TBD.   So when he learned she was going out with friends on Saturday, he felt blown off, and that was a deal breaker for him.

    That old saying about what happens when you assume:   You make an ASS out of U and ME.

    I think there’s a prime example of that going on here.

    1. 23.1
      Chance

      “On date #4 LW’s guy said let’s go out again, I’ll call you.   No date, time, or place was set.   She wanted to go out with him for round #5.   The talked on the phone sometime between Sunday and Wednesday but he didn’t “specify plans” for a 5th date.   So thursday rolled around and he hadn’t contacted her to set a date, time, and place, which wasn’t his typical M.O. up to that point.   So she went along and made plans with friends for Saturday.”

       

      First, he never said that he was going to call her.   That is a significant qualifier you’re putting in there.   The more that I read the LW’s letter, the more I get the impression that he is waiting for her to finally plan a date as it appears that he has been doing the calling/planning/paying during the first four dates.   Seriously, on date #5, it is time for the woman to step up and call/plan/pay.   Is this really so hard for women to understand?

      1. 23.1.1
        KK

        Chance,

        “The more that I read the LW’s letter, the more I get the impression that he is waiting for her to finally plan a date…”

        Please quote that part of the letter.

        1. Chance

          KK, you do understand what an impression is, right?

        2. KK

          Yes, Chance, I do understand. That’s why I asked you to provide some basis for yours.

        3. Chance

          I thought you were asking for a direct quote where that was overtly indicated.   See my response to Tom10 for an explanation of why I get this impression.

      2. 23.1.2
        Tom10

        @ Chance #23.1
        “Seriously, on date #5, it is time for the woman to step up and call/plan/pay.   Is this really so hard for women to understand?”
          
        I think that’s a reasonable point Chance and most women, in my experience, do begin to step up after a few dates.
          
        However, with regards to Melinda’s (the letter writer’s) situation she writes this:
          
        “after our fourth date on a Saturday night, he immediately asked for a fifth date though he did not specify when that date would occur.”
          
        If he was genuinely trying to gauge her interest and see whether she’d begin stepping up, it was unfair to ask her for a fifth date, leave her hanging, and then get annoyed with her for not stepping up to arrange said date.
          
        Now, there is the minute possibility that he simply forgot that he had already asked her for the date, but if he was genuinely into her he would’ve left no room for any doubt and locked it in. If she had kept her Saturday night free all week waiting for him to agree the date she is letting him take her for granted, thus undermines her own value and kills the situation.
          
        I sense he was humming-and-hawing about what to do next, and then got miffed when she called his bluff and went out with her mates instead!

        1. Chance

          Hi Tom10,

           

          “I think that’s a reasonable point Chance and most women, in my experience, do begin to step up after a few dates.”

           

          Most women?   Nice!   Where do you live again??   lol

           

           

          “If he was genuinely trying to gauge her interest and see whether she’d begin stepping up, it was unfair to ask her for a fifth date, leave her hanging, and then get annoyed with her for not stepping up to arrange said date.”

           

          You could be right, but we just don’t have enough supporting details relating to this story to get the proper context so we’re left to speculate about his possible motives.   I’ll provide a personal anecdote to illustrate why I think what I described is a possibility for what might be going on.   Several years back, I went on several dates with a physician who never stepped up to call/plan/pay.   She continued to show interest and be receptive, but she never initiated.   I knew she made about the same amount of money that I made so I began to get irritated by her “allowing” me to take her out and pay for all of our entertainment.   So, after about a handful of dates, I told her at the end of the date that I enjoyed myself, but that I was going to let her make the plans for our next outing (I don’t remember what I said word-for-word, but it was something to that effect).

           

          While she did ultimately plan the following date (and paid), I told the story to my male friends, and they were stunned that I had the nerve to be so forward.   They agreed with my actions, but they indicated that they would be terrified to do the same thing because men understand how many women get royally pissed when they have to pay for something.

           

          So, it is possible that he could be expecting her to step up, but he isn’t quite bold enough to overtly express this desire.   His “asking for a fifth date” could have been simply stated as “Would you like to get together again?” or “I look forward to seeing you again”.   This would serve to inform her that he is still interested despite the fact that he doesn’t intend to plan the following date.   In this context, it makes more sense that he called later in the week, but didn’t ask her out while on the call (i.e., he could have been giving her an opportunity to ask him out).   His tersely worded email that expressed his disappointment also makes more sense within this context.   Again, I’m not saying it’s probable that this is what is going on, but I think that it’s just as plausible as any of the other theories floating about on here.

        2. Tom10

           
          @ Chance
           
          “[I wrote] “I think that’s a reasonable point Chance and most women, in my experience, do begin to step up after a few dates.”
           
            
           
          “Most women?   Nice!   Where do you live again??   Lol”
           
            
           
          Let me phrase; unless women I date begin to step up after a few dates I cut them off, therefore, most women I date begin to step up. Lol.
           
            
           
          “I told the story to my male friends, and they were stunned…they would be terrified to do the same thing because men understand how many women get royally pissed when they have to pay for something”
           
            
           
          This must be geography so; almost all women I’ve dated have made an effort to contribute/reciprocate fairly early on in the dating process. The few who didn’t, I cut off.
           
            
           
          I didn’t see any point in asking the ones who didn’t if they would begin to contribute as they would already have done so if they had wanted to; therefore, it’s simpler to cut them off. It’s not clear in Melinda’s email if she contributed to any of the first four dates. It’s quite possible that she didn’t which is why he began to waver for the fifth date. But that’s a separate issue.
           
            
           
          “So, it is possible that he could be expecting her to step up, but he isn’t quite bold enough to overtly express this desire”
           
            
           
          Two things here:
           
          a)       So he isn’t quite bold enough to overtly express his desire for her to step up, but he is bold enough to send a terse email after the event? This seems a bit contradictory to me, which leads me to doubt that a lack of boldness is the problem.
           
          b)       Or even if the problem is a communication breakdown due to a lack of boldness, blaming her inability to infer his expectations is unfair as the communication problem lies on his end.
           
            
           
          “Again, I’m not saying it’s probable that this is what is going on, but I think that it’s just as plausible as any of the other theories floating about on here.”
           
            
          Lol. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy this blog; reading 75 different interpretations to one simple email/query, and the way contributors hyper-analyze every single word and sentence looking for “clues” as to who is right and who is wrong.

        3. Chance

          Tom10,

           

          “a)       So he isn’t quite bold enough to overtly express his desire for her to step up, but he is bold enough to send a terse email after the event? This seems a bit contradictory to me, which leads me to doubt that a lack of boldness is the problem.”

           

          I don’t think it’s contradictory.   He could have lacked the boldness while he was still interested, but sent a terse email when he lost his patience.

          b)       Or even if the problem is a communication breakdown due to a lack of boldness, blaming her inability to infer his expectations is unfair as the communication problem lies on his end.”

           

          I wasn’t claiming that he might have been irritated for her inability to read his mind.   I am trying to say that he could possibly be irritated with her unwillingness to plan a date on her own.

           

           

          “This must be geography so; almost all women I’ve dated have made an effort to contribute/reciprocate fairly early on in the dating process. The few who didn’t, I cut off.”

           

          I have often heard foreign men living in the States claim that American women are the most entitled women they have ever seen, and these men are coming from other developed and westernized cultures.   I don’t know if there is truth to it,   but I find it interesting that this is the consensus.

      3. 23.1.3
        Evelyn

        HE asked HER.   Why would she plan a date he asked her for? It may be YOUR preference that the woman start planning and paying by the fifth date, but not necessarily other men.    I would not ask a guy out on the 5th date because I’m still gauging his level of interest.

  4. 24
    GoWiththeFlow

    Chance,

    When was she supposed to ask him out?   He already ASKED her for a 5th date on date #4, and he DID subsequently call her before the Thursday when she made other plans, as his M.O. up until that week was to contact her 2 to 3 times during the week.   From the LW:

    “After our fourth date on a Saturday night, he immediately asked for a fifth date though he did not specify when that date would occur. He called once more that week and we talked about how great the fourth date was, but he did not specify plans for a fifth date.”

    If the guy wanted her to ask/plan/pay for the fifth date, why did HE ask HER for date #5 while on date #4.   How is she supposed to ask him out on a date when he’s already done it and she’s agreed?   Or if he truly wants her to assume responsibility for date #5 why doesn’t he make this clear by saying something like, “Great!   We both want to see each other again.   I got the first four dates, why don’t you get the next one.   I’m looking forward  to seeing what you’ll come up with!”

    “Is this really so hard for women to understand?”

    Not at all.   But the  guy asked her out for date #5, and she said yes.   Where is she  supposed to get in that exchange that  he wants her  to be in charge of the event?   The LW’s guy may have ASSUMED she “should just know” when the best way to get what he wanted was to not make assumptions, but to ask.

     

    1. 24.1
      Chance

      GwtF, see my response to Tom10.

    2. 24.2
      Adrian

      Hi GoWithTheFlow,

      I am curious and would like your opinions on some of the sub or general conversations going on in this post.

      You are the type of woman I would love to marry, so I would love to know how you would act in some of these situations.

      Just because I have a strong or emotional opinion on something does not mean that I am right or that I should not see and therefore understand how the type of women I would like to date sees the same issue (which is why I always particularly ask you questions).

      …    …    …

      1. Anyway, how would you react in that situation?

      2. The most common opinion in the comments section is that this guy just was not really into this woman. My question to you is, “How would you know if a guy was really into you or if he was just playing you?”

      I ask because this guy’s actions seemed to line up with everything Evan has taught us on how to be a good man. He was consistent, calling, planning, paying, etc and the dates were fun for the letter writer.

      So how do you know when a guy is really into you? Do you think this was just a case of he just wasn’t really into her? Should women not more proactive in the beginning stages of courting?

      3.   Okay so this one was not directly said, but it is the general assumption that I am picking up from all the female commenters. Which is, in mirroring they are still doing and showing these men things to indicate their level of attraction for the guy (therefore the guys who disappeared on them was NOT due to anything on their parts); basically they are doing things to make the dates fun for him also in their own opinions.

      If that is true of not -I’m not saying it is not or that they did not-I am curious as to what would you do to show a guy that you really like him while simultaneously letting him lead by mirroring? How do you make the date fun for the guy as well, though you are still mirroring, if he is doing all the planning, calling, paying, etc

      4. What is our guess as to why the guy who was doing everything right for 4 dates, did a complete 360 at the end? Would a guy not into a woman put in all that work for so long?

      1. 24.2.1
        Nissa

        To offer an opinion:

        1. You say yes when you can and no when you can’t.

        2. You don’t know. You just have to operate in ignorance with good intentions and let it play out. Just like in business. It might work or not, but assuming the other guy is out to screw you is bad business ( and relationshipping).

        3. Mirroring is supposed to let the man know you are interested. If he needs more, it’s usually a sign he is insecure. Not deadly, but not good news either if you want a confident man. Personally, I always say things like “I’m enjoying getting to know you / spending time with you / you are so interesting to me”. I don’t make him guess. I tell him directly. If he is still guessing after that….that’s an issue I can’t fix ( and wouldn’t want to try.)

        4. Sounds like the OP messed up delivery of telling him she was going out Saturday, and he took it badly. I don’t think he did a 360, I think he didn’t realize he failed to finalize, then compounded the error by not asking her about it (likely due to insecurity). I think he was into her, and therefore was consistent throughout.

      2. 24.2.2
        GoWiththeFlow

        Adrian,

        “You are the type of woman I would love to marry. . .”

        Awww shucks! That’s so sweet of you!   If I was only 20 years younger. . . but I do have 3 gorgeous nieces 😉

        1)   In this situation I would have either tried to nail down details on the call they had between date #4 and that fateful Thursday, or I would have messaged or called the guy on  Thursday to clarify things.

        2)   “How would you know if a guy was really into you or if he was just playing you?”

        I think the guy was doing all of the right things, being consistent and taking the initiative.   Also there is how a man behaves when you are with him; eye contact, smiling, being present in the moment.

        I think what happened with our ill fated couple was that, in her eyes, after date #4 he started to follow the template of their previous weekly interactions–asking immediately for the next date–and it freaked her out a little when he then deviated from the template by not nailing down the details of date #5.   So she’s unclear as to whether they have a date or not and confused as to what to do.   I think that she  glossed over that she sent him notice (texted, emailed, or left a voicemail) that she was going out with her friends as a way to poke him about not firming up plans as she expected.   It would have been better for her to reach out to the guy for clarification.

        I know it’s a minority opinion amongst the commenters but I do think the guy was into her.   I think him sending her the “tersely” written email expressing disappointment reflects that he was hurt and upset by her actions.   I think it’s quite possible that he DID think they had an agreement to go out that Saturday, and either he was working on the details or maybe he wanted to do something more casual or unscripted.   When he received her message that she has a great time with him but was going out with friends, he could have felt like she was blowing him off or she was playing games.

        3)   Mirroring just means that in the beginning stages, you give the man the level of attention he is giving you.   He calls or texts, you call or text him back in a timely manner.

        As far a behavior on a date, you show him your interest and respect by being on time, dressing attractively and appropriately for the date.   Be polite, be engaged in the conversation, be attentive, and sincerely thank him for his efforts.   Inject humor where you can, and flirt when you can if you’re feeling it 😉

        In addition, I’m mindful of costs.   I automatically get my wallet out when the check comes and am prepared to split costs, or I will offer to trade off–he gets dinner, I pay for the movie tickets.   I don’t order high dollar menu items, and since I’m a lightweight, I don’t drink anything more than a glass of white wine with dinner, and usually I don’t even have that.   I thank him when he pays.

        4)   “What is our guess as to why the guy who was doing everything right for 4 dates, did a complete 360 at the end? Would a guy not into a woman put in all that work for so long?”

        I think that what happened was that they both had enough experience with each other that they had expectations and made assumptions about how the other should or would behave and they failed to communicate with each other when actual behavior didn’t line up with what was expected.   Part of having a healthy relationship is letting go of the idea that other people can read your mind and you have to learn how to ask for what you want, and ask for clarification when you need it, and be ready to provide that for the other person as well.

        1. JM

          I think the guy was doing all of the right things, being consistent and taking the initiative.   Also there is how a man behaves when you are with him; eye contact, smiling, being present in the moment.

          I completely agree with this.

          I do not put any emphasis on texting anymore. I have made so many errors judging a man’s interest, making assumptions, etc, based on his texting – rather than basing it on his actions when we are together.

          Being present, the topics discussed, introducing me to friends, talking about me to his parents, inviting me to parties weeks in advance, etc.

          If I based his interest on how he texts me, or lack of texts, I would miss out on a man who treats me with respect.

          Plus, he has a crazy schedule that rotates from graveyards, to days, to swing, etc. When he is on days, he communicates more often, since it matches my work schedule… but when he is on the other schedules, he only communicates on his weekends.

          There is so much gray area, so I focus on his actions when we see each other.

          Maybe I am wrong, but I’m fairly confident. It’s only been 6 weeks… if he doesn’t move forward after 3 months, I will move on, but I hate giving timelines when I am not in any rush to apply a label… But that’s me and how I live my life. I know a lot of people might say I am wasting my time, but I don’t feel like I am… Especially, with him.

          If he always had the same schedule and dropped the communication down, then it might be possible that I would have the sense that he was losing interest… Who knows…

          What I do know is that he isn’t the only guy  out there. Haha.

        2. ScottH

          Adrian-   “You are the type of woman I would love to marry. . .”

          You are wise to recognize this in GWTF.   She is very wise indeed and has the perspective that we would be lucky to find in a woman.

        3. John

          GWTF

          I know it’s a minority opinion amongst the commenters but I do think the guy was into her.

          He was into her. You are correct. Many women on these comments are judging the man’s actions through their female lense when analyzing this situation. What happened was she would have been wise to verify for Saturday. If I am planning and paying for four dates I would like some mirroring. I would have confirmed with her, but if she reaches out to me, that would have been even better. She seemed to assume he changed his mind or was playing games. Like Evan said, we don’t play games; if we like you we like you.

          Thanks for your sagacious comments GWTF.

           

  5. 25
    Cara

    Regardless of the rest, which has been well discussed, so I’m skipping commenting, the fact that he sent an email expressing disappointment, then disappeared, says all I’d need to know about a guy.

    He didn’t get what he wanted one time, and he was out? Really?

    You found out he was a jerk. You are allowed to go out with your friends. He hadn’t claimed your Saturday. You aren’t a doormat.

     

  6. 26
    Just saying

    Chance, I sense your frustration with the posters here. Many, particularly women, simply cannot see things from the man’s point of view. To me her final text either says one of two things. 1) I want you to keep planning and paying for all our dates or 2) I want you to keep pursuing me and to give you incentive, I am making myself less available so you can try harder. That may not be her intention, but it certainly comes across that way. She is indicating her interest but doing nothing to back it up all in the interest of “mirroring”. She is either really clueless or very manipulative.

     

     

  7. 27
    Stacy

    It doesn’t matter if she initiated contact FIRST to tell him she is busy on Saturday. It doesn’t matter if he assumed she was trying to throw it in his face.

    If a man is REALLY into a woman the way she needs him to be, he would have still asked her about it or proceeded to iron out any misunderstandings.

    OP, he was just not that into you.   This is way too minor a situation to turn off any man who is sufficiently into you. He probably was neutral about his feelings for the OP in the first place and this was something that gave him an out for him to ‘make up his mind’ and go with his other option(s). And honestly, if he is this sensitive anyway, you shouldn’t want him.

    Regardless of the reason, he wasn’t for you.

  8. 28
    Lee

    I agree with Cara. After four dates where he was initiating, suddenly he becomes vague and doesn’t lock anything down, even though she had expressed sincere interest in a fifth date; then when she (understandably) makes other plans he sends her a curt email and she never hears from him again. I say, NEXT! A man who was interested would have made a mental note to not let her slip through his calendar again.

    1. 29.1
      Just Saying

      Adrian, if she had lacked the social instinct to have taken his text out of context and misunderstood it, then she probably misconstrued or misjudged his interest in the first place. I don’t know why all the posters here, including men, think the guy should keep persisting in “ironing” out any misunderstandings. That it is his responsibility and his alone, to keep the fire of interest buring and sustained. After all suppossedly great dates, shouldn’t the woman at least try to reach out ? If I were OP Melinda I would send another email to clarify and make happy, even offering to schedule a date. If he was non responsive to my latest gesture of goodwill and peace, then the posters here are all correct – he is a jerk,

    2. 29.2
      Evelyn

      If she misinterpreted the tone of his email, it would have been cleared up later when he reached out again, right? She said she never heard from him again.

    3. 29.3
      Joanne

      Love this video!

      How about let’s not rely so much on texting as a way of communication?

  9. 30
    Just Saying

    On a final note. OP Melinda has totally misunderstood the concept and execution of “mirroring”.   Her interpretation of “mirroring” is simply being receptive and open to a man’s interest and advances. This is hardly “mirroring” at all. “Mirroring” suggest matching a man’s interest and actions to the same extent. So if he calls you and you are interested, call him back – call for call. If he keeps inviting you to bars for drinks, invite him back to your favourite bars for drinks instead, rather than excalating to house parties, social gatherings or what not. If he only texts once a week, then text back once a week if you want to keep that option open.

  10. 31
    MilkyMae

    I think(hope) OP Melinda made an honest rookie mistake.    She may not realize that cancelling a date can be  toxic to a new relationship even when the reason is  legit.   Also, she cancelled because he didn’t firm up plans in time but she still wants to date him in the future.   She is trying to be accommodating but   this  sounds  a little   passive-aggressive.

    1. 31.1
      Evelyn

      She didn’t cancel because they didn’t have plans.

  11. 32
    Deb

    If it were me, I would have nailed down that fifth date! This guy sounds amazing – four incredible dates, great chemistry, etc. No one’s perfect and people deserve a chance. However, if he kept doing this on a regular basis, then I would go ahead and make my own plans for the weekend.

    If you’re looking forward to that fifth date, why not come out and say so? If this was after one date, that would be different.

  12. 33
    Jody

    I think something is omitted from this letter, or Evan interpreted it differently than some of us did.

    It sounded to me that they had no set plans, she was irked he didn’t make any, so she passive-aggressively reached out and said something like, “Just so you know, I made plans on Saturday because I didn’t hear from you,” and he was rightfully turned off.

    Notice she does not say that he ever actually invited her out for Saturday. She just “let him know” that she was busy.

    Or Evan is correct. Hard to tell when you’re only getting one carefully crafted side of the story.

    Either way, still good advice from Evan.

     

     

    1. 33.1
      Tyrone

      To me is sounds like they had plans. After four Saturday dates in a row, he suggested meeting again. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him or her to have assumed it would be another Saturday date.   As for the “tersely worded email expressing his disappointment”, that comment is a bit too subjective to know what the email said. Maybe it was something  that wan’t particularly serious that she took the wrong way. Or maybe was trying to be a bit dickish. Hard to say.

      But since we do know what she said, we can look at that. She admits to mirroring. She messaged him Thursday saying she made plans on Saturday. So because she was stuck on the mirroring game, she elected to continue that rather than use a bit of common sense. 4 Saturday dates in a row. Not a stretch to assume this guy wanted to meet up again on the upcoming Saturday. She could have asked “Hey i know you wanted to get together this week. Does saturday work for you again? If, not, I’m going to head out with the girls” or something along those lines.

      I agree that her message to him was a passive aggressive dig. The sending of the message to him on Thursday telling him that she made other plans because he didn’t confirm the Saturday slot was basically just a dick move. It shows that she actually knew that this guy wanted to meet on Saturday, but for reasons unknown to her or us, he didn’t specifically pin it down. Maybe he wanted to see if she would put in some effort. Maybe he got busy. Maybe he didn’t have it planned out quite yet. Who knows?   If she didn’t know he wanted to meet Saturday, she wouldn’t have sent the message saying she’d made plans on Saturday. She thinks that he was mad that she didn’t leave a slot open for him – she considers that to be inconsiderate of him. But was is considerate of her to fill that time slot, the time slot that she had already  reasonably (and rightfully based on his respons) assumed he meant, without due diligence on her part? He did say he wanted to see her again after 4 straight Saturday dates. Not saying that she is in the wrong for her assumption. Not saying he is either. This was basically a misunderstanding that could have been avoided if, like Evan says,   the game playing had been dropped

  13. 34
    Anonymous

    Hey all,

    Agree w some posters here. . . As far as we can tell he never said anything about when they were getting together.   But instead of being like Yeah sure she could have said,   def. I could do x day or y day,   and based in his response. . . Totally different conversation.   He would have had to say I’m not sure,   I’ll follow up or,    yes.   The idea is to participate not just be a passenger.

    I’d love to know what she said to let him know she was free. . Sounds like she may have even egoistic and rude.   “Hey I made plans for Sat,   maybe we can get together another time” . . .   As in: didn’t hear from you,   jerk.   Or did he follow up and then she had to say she made plans? Did she say she made plans with another man? So many unknowns.   It’s all speculation.

    Also   mirroring won’t guarantee a relationship.   While it ups the odds   maybe this guy just decided he wasn’t that impressed with her. . She gushes about his resume,   he prob has a lot of options and maybe she just didn’t bring enough to the table. Or,   maybe he was undecided and wanted some time to himself and for explore other options   and that one conversation sealed his uncertainty in so unfavorable manner.

     

  14. 35
    Joanna

    Hey Evan!

    Thanks   for the advice! Since I listened to “Why He Disappeared” I’ll admit that I have been a victim of the “do nothing run amuck”. I have had a few guys make a solid plan and then disappear for a few days. I took this as an indication that they were ditching me, but they’ve all been pretty angry at me when I told them I made other plans. Wups! Lol, well I won’t make that mistake again 🙂 I’m glad I found this when I did because I have a date on Friday with a really sweet guy who made a solid plan and I could have ruined without your help. All the best 🙂

  15. 36
    Trea

    My reaction was to the lady writing him that she made other plans before she knew what was happening.   The man sent an abrupt message after her message. I think his terse response was toward the lady writing about how she’s moved on,made plans and she was wanting him to run after her & perhaps that was a game.. I also think that the message she sent wasnt that destructive to the potential relationship. He is obviously ultra-sensitive.

  16. 37
    Dani way past Socio/Narcs

    What an insecure, petty, shallow, little man.. sounds like a sociopath/narcissist. be warned

    She did indeed dodge a bullet. While a lot of these columns are great for helping the needy types find some sense of valuing the self while navigating the dating pool the bad part is that we cater to much to these “rules of Stepford pre-wives” for these petty ass men, forgive my french.

    She had 4 wonderful dates with this guy and missed one by guess what…Having a life.

    He didn’t lock down that Saturday and she did the right thing by not idly sitting around waiting until Saturday for him to maybe grace her with his time, he was testing her sense of value and she reminded him that she is a woman of value, he ran. Seems like the chemistry and woo-woo feeling was sadly one sided because for him to be so curt even after she informed him Thursday (going further to stroke his weak ego by reminding him she enjoyed his company) and didn’t blow him off or stand him up he still became cold, disinterested, and fickle. It shows he’s a emotionally underdeveloped man who is possibly use to getting women dependent on his behavioral repetition and then initiates a draw back to see her panic, also known as fuel. Men may not play games but Narc/Socio do. People with a Level of depth and emotional Maturity don’t cut you with and email and give you the cold shoulder for something so petty. He showed his true colors.

    Yes, the best thing would have been to do a minor check in to say hey are we still on for Saturday, but so what if you didn’t, and so what that you made plans with people who actually do appreciate you and your time, like your friends, instead of some butt hurt ivy league Joe who thinks the world snaps to command when he calls them to attention. He didn’t like the boundaries she set because she informed him that she IS of value and there ARE people who want her time and company, she won’t wait! none of use should.

    I cringe because I too once walked on egg shells in dating, making “mistakes” that I felt were so trivial next to the overall experience I shared with the person to make them just up and walk away. Then I ran into a Narcissist, and ohh, hunny let me tell you if you haven’t had the soul transformative lesson of making it through the fire with one of those, whew~. But what I realized is that some people are wired already have one foot out the door, even with the multitude of good experiences that should trump a minor dating set back (he was upset because she informed him that she has other things/dates happening in her life people) SMH. Continue to do that hun, and eventually the right guy will come to value and respect that about you I know my current partner has.

  17. 38
    LL

    This happened a lot in the dating world if you are doing online dating. The guy is just to test the water by omitting necessary details for a date plan to see how you react. If your reaction didn’t show you are crazy about him or didn’t match the level he wanted, he will drop it. This was what happened to Melinda here. Good for her for losing someone not into her much.

     

    1. 38.1
      SparklingEmerald

      This happened to me TONS, when I was in OLD.   We would get to the phone call, to specifically set up a date.   We might plan 2 out of 3 (date, time and where) and then he would say he need to check his schedule to give me the other piece of info.   Sometimes it would be “Call me sometime next week and   we’ll decide the date”   Or the date and time would be decided, but “Let’s firm up the place later”   (after we had batted around several suggestions from both of us)   One man, just couldn’t decide on the place, even though we had discussed a few.   He said he would call me when he made up his mind.   He sent me a text the night BEFORE (around 10PM) saying “Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner, I went to the gym after work today, I will text you a place to meet me tomorrow.   Just say yes”.   I sent him an e-mail telling him that I had already made other plans, since our plans were still up in the air. I got a few crank texts from him after that.

      I actually googled it, and found out that these half planned dates are a “shit test” that guys use, to gauge a girl’s interest. This was on a advice board for MEN on how to date women.   (If she doesn’t call you back to finalize the date, it supposedly signals a lack of interest on her part)   To me, that kind of half-assededness signals HIS lack of interest in me, so even if I was initially interested, my interest fades pretty quickly after that.

      So glad I am now married to a GREAT guy, and playing these stupid mind games was NEVER part of our relationship.

      1. 38.1.1
        DeeGee

        SparklingEmerald said: “I actually googled it, and found out that these half planned dates are a “shit test” that guys use, to gauge a girl’s interest.

        This is the first time I have ever heard of that shit test by men.   I have never done it either.   I am probably too overly considerate when it comes to taking care of the woman that I am dating.   I feel that perhaps that is what gets me ruled out by women, my being too much of a good guy (“good guys are boring”).
        I have also heard about or read  or watched red pill videos talking about shit tests that women do against men, and either I am too thick or something as I have never seen women doing those to me either.
        I have however had a lot of women that I have dated do unreasonable things or throw up red flags to which I stopped seeing them thereafter.
        My bottom line is that I simply have learned to enjoy myself and my own company, to be a better and full person myself, to be interesting and have great fulfilling hobbies, and if no woman wants that in a man, then I am still happy enough in myself to carry on without them.

        1. Michelle

          Agree.   I know nice guys tend to finish last but in my opinion they will get a better quality of woman.   not a man who wants to be a player his entire life it gets old after a while.   and trust me I know I am 46 years old and have dated enough players to know. when are this age it finally hits you that you just do not have time for these games anymore. if men can’t be men then good riddance

  18. 39
    Michelle

    Bottom line..   then have gotten too lazy .   do you think our grandfathers did this ??? no they went out of their way to ask the girl out   and confirm a date and make plans because they wouldn’t take the risk of losing her or her interest !!   it’s BS that women are supposed to take the initiative or do any of the chasing.   this is why dating is so screwed up now because it’s a matter of who does the asking who does the following up blah blah blah blah blah it should be the way it was back in the day when men were men and they were taught to do this crap!!

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