If Men Like Only Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

If Men Only Kike Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

Dear Evan,

Why do dating experts for men teach them how to get the hottest women possible? Unlike women, they are rarely told to date someone they might not find attractive at first because she might grow on him. As an average looking woman (I am fit, well-groomed and fashionable, but I know that I am not a bombshell. I don’t make people gag, but I don’t turn heads either.), I feel that no man is going to find me desirable because all men feel that they deserve and can get the hottest woman out there. Just where does that leave women like me? 


Dear Tia-Maria,

Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking this question. A few months ago, I promised to write a post about shallow men, and this note from you is the perfect excuse.

First, a story:

When I started writing Why You’re Still Single, back in early 2005, I was working with a different woman than my eventual partner, Linda Holmes. This original partner was a noted matchmaker who brought a certain credibility to my pet project – she’s experienced in her field, she’s telegenic, she knows plenty about single people, etc.

One of the first chapters I completed was called “The Beauty Myth Is Not a Myth.” It didn’t necessarily debunk Naomi Wolf’s seminal work, but it did establish one very important concept that women need to understand: Men are as shallow as advertised. And while women can beat their heads against a wall, wishing that this were not true, they’re fighting a real losing battle if they expect men to stop worshipping at the altar of beauty.

Like much of my advice, it can rub a woman the wrong way. But I wasn’t condoning the behavior, I was merely reporting it. This is what men do, whether we like it or not. Yet my writing partner felt so unnerved by my stance, that her version of the “Beauty Myth” chapter only served to contradict everything I had written.

She mentioned that she was in the business of connecting souls.

She stated that as men mature, they learn to appreciate inner beauty.

She encouraged women to hold out for the kind of guy who isn’t as focused on the outer packaging.

That’s when I fired her from the project.

I tell this story not to make myself look good (clearly), but because I refused to put out a book that gave bad advice. And make no mistake about it – telling women to hold out for men who don’t care about looks is BAD ADVICE. Why? Because men like this are as common as Halley’s Comet….

Here’s an excerpt from Why You’re Still Single:

“I am not suggesting that men are pure objects of lust with all the depth of a bathtub. Nor am I suggesting that men don’t have the ability to love and accept any physical imperfections. They can and they do.

Just not as much as women. At least in my experience as a dating coach where I have the unique privilege of being given access to some of my clients’ online dating accounts. And after years of doing this, I’m still flabbergasted that no matter how unattractive a man is – no matter how little hair is on his head, or how much on his back – he STILL has the same twenty-something supermodels on his favorites list as if he was Colin Farrell.

Yes, Shallow Hal lives – and I believe he lives in a majority of American men. Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold, at least in L.A., where I live…

Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold.

If anybody should be judged harshly, it’s men for refusing to let women age gracefully. Most men do not break out of gender roles and societal expectations. So while you may know a handful of men who don’t care about looks, they are rarities. They are the gold standard, the type that every woman should be striving to date. But if you’re under the illusion that they grow on trees, it’s time to wake up and smell the Kiehl’s anti-aging lotion. The number of guys who are “above” the whole looks thing may fill a classroom, but not a stadium, and definitely not a big enough portion of the male population to suggest any type of trend.

In a weak moment, I bet that even the most non-judgmental guy around would say that he wants a mind, soul, and body connection – but only if she takes care of her body.

So, Tia-Maria, why do dating experts tell men how to get the hottest women possible? …

Because that’s what men want. Plain and simple. Dating experts try to sell products by connecting with readers’ basest wishes. And for men, the holy grail is to be able to get the hot girl. What these men rarely consider is that the hot girl might also be emotionally bankrupt, unintelligent, flaky, humorless, and lack basic human empathy. These details don’t concern them. Men’s repeated refrain: “I can’t help what I’m attracted to.”

Who do we blame for this? Men, of course, but there’s more than enough responsibility to go around. After all, women buy into the Beauty Myth just as much as men do. Advertising and media saturation reinforce the image of perfect bodies and skin, and women spend thousands of dollars each year striving for an impossible standard. And to please whom? Men? Themselves? I’m not sure anyone can agree on this stuff.

And where does this realization leave you, Tia-Maria? I would say right back where you were before. Secure in who you are and who you’re not. Validated in your opinion that men are impossibly shallow. And rightfully concerned that you’re going to be overlooked.

Despite my shallow man diatribe, please bear in mind that there is a lid for every pot. Just look around. Most women don’t qualify as “hot” in the Maxim sense, and yet they still get married. The real struggle is in keeping a healthy perspective and a positive attitude until you find the right fit.

So don’t worry about what you can’t control (men); instead, take care of what you can control (yourself).

And trust that the right man will love you as you deserve to be loved.


For more commentary on shallow men, please read:

Where Are All The Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?

How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested In Me?

Are Women More Likely Than Men to Require Chemistry To Go On A Second Date?

Online Daters Are Shallow! And Water Is Wet!

Join our conversation (493 Comments).
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  1. 151
    Hadley Paige

    RE: Jill @ 148
    “I felt like they were settling because they didn’t want the headache.  “
    In my opinion they are not settling for you. They have matured and realized that looks are not their #1 concern with all else is being distant 2nd. They have reevaluated their want list for a successful relationship and re-prioritized the list with new weightings. They should be commended for that, not condemned bc they are allegedly settling.
    You are the winner in that re-evaluation– enjoy it. If you spend the energy you will always find things to obsess about in a relationship–not helpful for you or the relationship. Don’t beat your self up with self doubt– its a road to nowhere (thank you David Byrne).

  2. 152

    Jill, haven’t you heard the old adage, “for every hot woman out there, there’s a guy who’s tired of f—ing her”?

  3. 153

    Well initially I worried that I wasn’t pretty enough but then when I saw other girls he dated, I realized that it was the opposite, that I was (with one guy in particular not all of them) but perhaps he ONLY dates a certain type of girl, and then feels entitled to things, or doesn’t settle down and just gets bored of one and moves on. So yeah Joe, I suppose I became the girl he got tired of…:-/  He sometimes said, the prettier a girl the crazier she is, and would motion to me. And I wanted to say “but I’m crazy cause I love you!” sigh. 

    I didn’t expect him to lie to me about how I looked, I was more worried that it bothered him, if say, I wasn’t good enough, because I thought if he has dated so many pretty girls, myself included, but not stayed with them, is he really that picky?  But I think I’ve realized now that he was sick of pretty girls who were insecure, and that while he wasn’t going to lower his standards for a less attractive girl he was looking for other things as well, but at the time I just didn’t believe him. I didn’t believe that anything else mattered to him.

  4. 154

    Jill, I think men in general are a lot LESS shallow than you give them credit for.  Don’t assume that looks are all they care about, and don’t obsess about your own looks so much.  When it comes to LTRs, looks matter least of all.  It’s personality that counts.

  5. 155

    It’s so funny…when you read comment threads like this, you’d think that only super models got and stayed married.

    Funny, when I’m out, I see people who are average, below average, all shapes and sizes, with partners and spouses who clearly adore them and a percentage of them will be together until one of them dies.  That’s how every person doesn’t wind up dumped when they inevitably change physically, whether it is hair, weight, or age.  

    It’s so sad that so many people believe that everyone is as shallow as they are.  Lots of beautiful people will die alone, and lots of “ugly” people will die surrounded by people who love them.  And no matter what you do, your external beauty will fade.

    Why not accept that the person who picks you does think that you are a “hot” girl or at least an “attractive” girl and don’t worry about how you “measure up” to the last girlfriend or to all of womankind.  I’m sure that some cocky self-proclaimed 10’s think that every guy they see walking around with a 3 wishes he could upgrade, but plenty of those men see what they have as being better than you, and no, not b/c they are ugly and less likely to leave or have options.

    I kind of dislike attempts to quantify beauty b/c so much of it is based on race, ethnicity, and what is presented as beautiful in your particular society, so just understand that just b/c one group of people thinks you are a 10, another group might think you are a -5, and assume that your dating pool will be people who perceive you to be more attractive. 

  6. 156

    Nicole, that was a really good post, and it actually made me feel a lot better 🙂

  7. 157

    My opinion is that a pretty face will definitely get you noticed by men, but will it guarantee marriage? Nope.

    I know stunningly beautiful girls that are lonely, whereas the averagely cute girl easily snagged a man.   What makes the difference? Personality, confidence and the willingness to be supportive and nurturing to a man.  You could be a beautiful woman that’s insecure and needy, whereas the plain jane with a cute smile could be confident, carry herself well and is overall secure within her relationship.  Which girl do you think someone will choose as their life partner? 


  8. 158


    It’s interesting that you state men cannot help that they’re attracted to biology and women are about something else.

    You need to be corrected.

    Both men and women are visual creatures and base their physical attraction someone on their appearance.

    A nice guy is not going to be physically attractive because being nice is a character quality not a buff muscle, large penis, or nice hair.

    If men cannot help that they’re attracted to biology, then that would leave them pretty powerless creatures to want to mate with something that just looks good. There’s exception to every rule.

    For example, some men have sex with animals and children. Where is the biology in that? Women do this as well but not ..nearly…as much.

    Think of it as a preference or sexual fetish.

    It is a fetish to want a woman with a small waist and big boobs just as much as it is to want any other sized woman (because people come in all shapes and sizes).

    Think about that. 

  9. 159

    @ Janelle #159

    “A nice guy is not going to be physically attractive because being nice is a character quality not a buff muscle, large penis, or nice hair.”

    I will beg to differ slightly in so much as the next time you are parsing through a magazine of Cosmo or GQ or whatever rags women read (mens equiv. of MAXIM) you will realize you are indeed attracted first and foremost at a physical level.

    You see a strong chiseled jaw, 5 oclock shadow, dark wet haired, peircing baby blue eyes, high brows, looking just off to the left of the camera. There’s a bottle of mens cologne in the page but you’re oblivious to the fact it’s there. You’re imagining and projecting feelings and emotions into this man. You’re thinking “whats he looking at, whats he thinking about, i wonder if likes jogging by the lake, does he like puppies, he must, he looks like a dog person” and on and on…

    the guy could be a total asshat, but you will go to the ends of the earth to mask his flaws if you are visually stimulated by him.

    same goes for guys. they let good looking women get away with murder, quite literally. i’ve known so many guys (myself included) who let good looking women do and say stupid things we wouldn’t let others get away with or behaviors that we found inappropriate. it’s the same survival mechanism babies have, especially puppies and baby seals. ever notice how everyone goes ‘awwwww’ their so bloody cute you can’t imagine ever hurting them.

    Character is subjective and partially obscured by what our personal stake in the matter is. He’s a ‘nice guy’ because you want him to be nice because you are attracted to him. If you’re not attracted to him, he’s creepy, or needy, or just gross. To know a persons real character, see how he treats his family.

    As for the main point of the post, since i have started working out, put on muscle and lost the fat, and getting more compliments from coworkers and glances, my standards have risen in that i try and find someone who has a fit and active lifestyle like my own now. But the same concept applies, i would rather have sweet girl with an average frame that just has ‘cuteness’ instead of blaring hotness because i’ve come to learn that the more hot a woman perceives herself, the more trouble i can expect down the road in an LTR.

  10. 160

    @ Jill #154:

    Here’s another saying: you gotta get on it before the crazy outweighs the hot.

  11. 161

    A woman who carries herself well, is fun, laid-back, happy and playful is sure to get men no matter what she looks like. Period.

  12. 162

    Oh please men are much more shallow than women looks wise, but lets face it if you have ever gone for higher then your number you are just as shallow, if an average man tries it on with a very good looking women and she sends him packing in the first few seconds who is the shallow one? well its the man, dont punch past your own wait or you are just as shallow, in any relationship heck every relationship there will be a reacher and a settler if your less attractive you are the reacher, you reach as high as you can, the settler is the better looking or more desirable in general, so the question is not why you are not getting the best looking men/women when your plain, its why you think you deserve them, and why plain is not good enough for you, if you are not happy with your number, and go higher well heres some tough love you are shallow, no buts its a fact.

  13. 163

    Wow, this is a crazy post!

    Here it is in a nutshell

    Women require;
    A bit of an “edge”
    decent physique

    Men require;
    fit physique

    Ladies, if guys didn’t care/appreciate how you look and how you take care of yourself, there would be NOTHING to separate the tiers of women. Anyone women could have any man and then all the hours you spend taking care of yourself and looking good would be useless. How fair would that be?
    Guys have to compensate for at least one item on my list, looks, height, hair etc…If a guy has EVERYTHING, he’s going to hold out for the best because he can. Evan has stated this on numerous occasions.

    Just my two cents

    1. 163.1

      Errr…. a lot of women are saying that the way tiers of women are separated should be based on character, rather than looks.
      But yes, how you take care of yourself does speak about how your personality, character and how you might take care of others.
      What does it say about a woman with a very pretty face but who has allowed herself to bloat up into a land whale with a BMI of over 40 ? Or a woman with very very ordinary looking face who who works hard to keep fit, well groomed, clean and well maintained ?
      I like the saying that goes – you are born with the face and body God gave you, but you die with the face and body you deserve.

  14. 164

    @ JB
    “Ladies, if guys didn’t care/appreciate how you look and how you take care of yourself, there would be NOTHING to separate the tiers of women.”
    This, as my teenage son would say, is redunculous. Is this supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek comment or something? I agree 100% that men are visual, but this is taking it to a whole new level. Kinda like..
    “Guys, if women didn’t care/appreciate how much you make, there would be NOTHING to separate the tiers of men. Any man could have any woman and then all the hours you spend making money and earning raises would be useless. How fair would that be?” See what I did here?
    Also, my list maybe only matches your “women require…” by 50%, if that. Which to me means that everyone has different lists. Just because I don’t fit Ryan Gosling’s list, doesn’t mean I don’t fit anyone’s.
    I think Amy #163 has it right. If a woman takes basic care of herself, carries herself with confidence, and is fun to be around, she will be seen as attractive enough to pursue and to want to be with, even if she doesn’t have model looks.

  15. 165


    I totally agree with you, if she’s fun to be around and takes care of herself, she will have plenty of suitors….

    what’s your take on what men need to be to get plenty of suitors?

  16. 166

    I’ve read a lot of great comments and I can honestly say I don’t require any of those things, I don’t care about height, weight, money but men seem to always require me to look a certain way no matter if he’s a 2, 5 or a 10..

    I’m not shallow but I’m lumped in with all the shallow women and over looked. I’m beautiful but I’m black so yeah that takes me out of the dating pool because society even today says we are the least desirable, black men are not dating black women, white men may date us but I think it’s more recreational curiosity than it is serious and forget about dating Indian or Asian.

    This society sucks and it’s completely understandable why women FAKE a personality a man will be attracted to rather than be herself.

    I can’t tell you how many ebooks and newsletters I get from men like Evan and Rori Raye and Christian Carter and count less others but the reality is if you’re not a certain type dating is very difficult be it a man or a woman and if you’re not a white female/interracial female it’s damn near impossible, if you’re black in shape, healthy or voluptuous bordering on chunky or just over weight, educated, uneducated forget about it. I’ve been celibate for years, I’m educated, attractive, I have standards but not too high and I don’t care about money, dress appropriate, I’m empathetic, loving  but of course I’m sexualized by men, I’m made to feel like I’m not good enough for love, I’m just good for some jungle love in the sack, a good time. I never thought I’d see the day were I wasn’t even considered girlfriend material.  

    I don’t date anymore…


  17. 167
    Evan Marc Katz

    I’ll answer you, JB.

    You know what women want? To be SAFE, HEARD and UNDERSTOOD by men.

    And any guy who simply talks about a woman in terms of how young, thin and hot she is – well, he’s not being the optimal boyfriend.

    Women don’t care about your washboard abs as much as you do.

    Women don’t care about your money as much as you do.

    Women want to feel SAFE, HEARD and UNDERSTOOD.

    Do that and you can have any (good) woman out there.

  18. 168
    Saint Stephen

    That’s a serious generalizations u just made. The vast majority of black men date and get married to black women, and no I’m not just referring to the uneducated deadbeat slackers and peddlers, but the educated and successful and sophisticated ones. The one’s who exclusively date whites i believe are in the minority.

    And u might also have to evaluate the men u dated. I’d advise u to go for men of high character, that’s if u ever  consider getting back into the dating scene again. Men of high character wont sexualize you. 

  19. 169
    Saint Stephen

    With all due respect. I think it’s more appropriate for you to let a woman/women answer the question, since you aren’t one. You can’t speak on behalf of men and on behalf of women too…

  20. 170
    Still Looking

    Uh oh…. I’ve spent my entire life trying to understand women 🙂

  21. 171

    @Saint Stephen

    Generalizations are my reality when it comes to dating my own race and outside of my race, it may be generalizations for some people but for me it’s REAL, it’s a real reality I have to live in every day.  I’ve met women that went overseas to find love in other countries like Italy and with other nationalities in other countries, I know there is a place were I will be loved and appreciated for my beauty.

    I don’t pick a man for what he has and how tall he is and how much money he has but I encounter more and more men no matter if he’s successful or not wanting 7’s or better, white with blue eyes, if not black she has to fit in the exotic box.  I’m not from Africa so yeah that takes me out of the exotic pool.  What about just being black? Isn’t that good enough. So many negative stereotypes come with being a black woman it’s unreal. 

    I’m not a 7 least no IMO but I’m attractive but somehow that’s not good enough when it comes to forming a long term relationship that leads into marriage. 

    I don’t think I’ll date an American man, too shallow for me. I’m hoping to move out of the US and broaden my opportunities, in this country I am not wanted. I feel like a foreign outsider in a country I’ve lived in all of my life the USA. 

    I never thought it would be so hard for me and yes I’ve done everything I can to improve my attitude, my body, my looks and my life, I don’t buy ebooks and talk to relationship counselors and work hard at this for nothing.

    Thanks for your feedback…. 

  22. 172

    Women need SAFE, HEARD and UNDERSTOOD
    And studies have shown time and time again that what women say they are attracted to is significantly different to what actually attracts them.

    Also attraction is not a choice, so no one is shallow.
    Kay probably would find it easier outside the USA.

    I have to say though that I have a friend who is not particularly attractive for her age, and few men her age will consider her (except gamma males) She is however attractive to older men.
    If she could compromise she would get a boyfriend.

    Most of us could find a mate if we dropped the bar sufficiently. Tragically, this is very very difficult to do in practice

  23. 173


    As a black man, I feel that your part of your own problem.  With such a negative outlook you will get negative results.  I like black women, and there are many people who do. I know plenty of married black women my age which is late 20’s.  They are mostly married to black men.  Two are married to white men.  Stop listening to negative statistics and stereotypes.   You haven’t even met .01% of men in America.  Just because you dealt with a few shallow men doesn’t mean all or even most men are shallow.  I’m tired of hearing whiny diatribes about how black men don’t date black women.   It’s not true, and you need to stop believing it.    All my black friends have dated black women, and every male in my family who is married happened to marry a black woman. 

  24. 174


    I’m not in my own way, I know that, I’ve been at this for awhile and I know that my attitude appear negative but the reality is, I’m happy and I’m realistic, I’ve been out there, I’ve dated so until you walk in my shoes don’t judge. It’s not easy, I haven’t given up on myself but I won’t subject myself to painful experiences if I don’t have to. Dating and love is supposed to be fun no painful.

    Yes I made some generalizations and I’m educated enough to know those generalizations do not apply to every one and thank God for that, I wouldn’t want anyone to see and be in my shoes, it’s not fun and it’s not necessary to have to go through so much to get a date or a boyfriend or a husband for that matter.

    I’m listening to anyone but me and I know I’ve seen what I know with my own eyes, it’s easy to tell someone oh you’re negative when I’ve been nothing but positive but if I say a truth, a fact then I’m the problem.

    I’m confident that I’ve done and am still doing everything I can to be a better ME all of the time, I don’t just lay back and be lazy about this, this is my life and if it’s not easy well it’s not easy, I haven’t given up, I just won’t get very far here in the USA so I’m broadening my options and IMO that is being positive and taking positive steps to improve my odds to have a great man in my life.

    This isn’t just about black men, it’s about men in general and yes I believe men in the USA are shallow, are very hard to be with and commitmentphobic and these are GOOD men, these aren’t bad boys and losers and pick up artist, even the good men are turning out to be just as shallow as the bad ones. I’m not sure what the hell is going on but I don’t want any part of it.

    And good for you for having positive black men in your life but you are not the norm or the majority least not were I come from and no I’m not ghetto and I don’t live in the hood, I’m an educated beautiful black woman, positive role models and believe in living a healthy full positive life that doesn’t have a problem being vulnerable and allowing a man to be a man. 

    I can’t speak for every black woman, I’m speaking for me and this is my experience and there is nothing you can say to change that, that’s my responsibility not yours.

  25. 175

    Sorry for the typo’s meant to say…

    Dating and love is supposed to be fun not painful. 

    I’m NOT listening to anyone but me 

  26. 176

    In my experience women I know who assume negative things about men, that they are commitment phobic, selfish etc are usually drawn to the wrong types of men.  You sound exactly like a very beautiful, educated girl I used to know. Bachelors degree and private school educated.  She always got involved with morons and then complained that relationships were not worth it and that men were garbage.  Her father was not in her life and she had no clue what a good man looked like or how to even find one.  When I gave her some advice she accused me of being a know-it-all and trying to tell her what to do.  Needless to say she is still miserable and very bitter.  She would rather have her beliefs validated that all men are trash, and waste time trying to make crappy relationships work.  She also had unrealistic expectations and always blamed everyone else for her problems. We obviously are no longer friends, even though we were once very close and traveled the world together.  I’m just warning you not to be like my former friend.  But since you’re already decided that you won’t listen to anyone, I can only pray that you can change your attitude.

  27. 177


    I’m not assuming. This is MY experience take it or leave it Greg.

    I’m not against advice, I read Rori Raye, Evan Marckatz, Michael Fiore, Christian Carter, Steve Harvey and count less others, I’m not against taking help nor am I resistant to OWN my issues and take RESPONSIBILITY for my behavior and attitude so you see it’s not about me not allowing others to help me, it’s not about changing my behavior and attitude because I’ve done that and then some and I’m still doing that, it’s more about MY reality and what I’ve encountered. I don’t date douche bags although I’ve encountered a few, I don’t do FWB relationships so no I’m not jilted or scorned or bitter.  

    I have sought out one on one relationship coaching and up until recently I had a great coach so you see I’m not NOT taking control of my love life but my encounters have been less than favorable, no ones fault, not blaming anyone. It’s a fact least for me it is. 

    I’m not some walking wounded soul that doesn’t do anything to pull herself up and help herself so yeah you got me all wrong. Maybe try to understand me rather than disagree with me, try empathy and understanding instead of debating my experience.

    My expectations were once unrealistic I admit many moons ago, I’ve toned it down, I understand that I didn’t understand men, I’ve worked on understanding men for the past few years, I’m good in that area, my expectations are balanced.

    I’m not blaming anyone, men are men and although I call them shallow I’m not necessarily saying they are bad, they are who and what they are so yeah I take ownership of my life and if I choose to broaden my options because I feel the men in the US are shallow well that’s my opinion and if you read through these comments you’ll see I’m not the only one who feel this way.

    I’ve listened to you, I understand what you’re saying and yet you FAIL to understand me and that’s your problem not mine.

    Instead of telling me I won’t listen because I’ve decided that I won’t listen, do me a favor read and empathize and understand that’s if you even take the time to read my statements… 

  28. 178


    I’m not debating your experience.  I’m just saying that your experience is limited.  You have only experienced a few US men.  You can’t judge everyone by your small sample size.

    For example would it be fair for someone to pass judgment on an entire ethnic group based on their bad experiences with a few members of that ethnic group?  After all their bad experience is their PERSONAL reality.  They’ve never met any pleasant members of that ethnic group, so is it fair for them to assume that most or all members of that group are bad?  I’m guessing you would say no it wouldn’t be fair for them to judge an entire group.  However, this is exactly what you’re doing.  You’re being emotional instead of logical.  

    1. 178.1
      liminal minimal

      Kay + Greg, you are perfect examples of what Evan commented earlier: Women want to be “UNDERSTOOD” and men want to solve problems. The problem I’d like to solve as a woman is that yes, Greg, your empirical breakdown of statistics is valid, but you’ve never walked in a BLACK woman’s shoes in the infinitesimal amount of time we exist. She has, all her life. And she is dedicated, confident good looking, takes care herself, self-actualized, intelligent person and oh so many delightful other things right Kay? ; ) So barring the last 99.999999%  of men Kay will also never meet, date or marry, she gets the short shrift just as hard as 5′ guys do in America. Right Kay? So just get your ass to Paris Kay! And Greg, I (second-hand)  understand being a black guy sucks in countless, dangerous ways! I imagine, but can’t understand an external ‘difference’ that freaks people out all day long.  Same thing BUT black women have got it worse. Ask around.

      But don’t ask me because I’m the unicorn in this equation! French Creole, beautiful, exotic (to white Americans at least; clearly black to black Americans),  very light-skinned,  skinny, model type with green eyes. The “high white prize” that is alternately revered and unaccepted in the black community. “You’ll be in the video, but you’ll often be fetishsized by white guys (knowingly or not) who ‘just like brown girls” which ironically I’m not -sorry! you hear: “You ain’t Black!” “You’re not really black!” “You’re one of those fake black people.” But walk outside, on TV,  I am the shit. Apple doesn’t even have a commericial without me. One thing is sure in all this though is that I’ve always been “sexy,” not “pretty” not “cute”. Always “sexy.”


      Greg you are clearly a respectable guy, you made a lot of good points here but you’re mansplaining an irrevelant point.Empirically I understand and agree with what you’re saying IN THEORY. But dating is not theory, there are liquids involved  for god’s sakes! She’s not being emotional, (a real serious crime I’ve gone to the emotional slammer over) she’s being emotional AND logical. She’s doing what every single person in the world is doing: living their own personal reality. You are too.


      Did that woman-splaining work for you?

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        liminal minimal

        I’m also gonna jump out there if it wasn’t clear before, I’m totally hot, totally crazy, totally alone (short 2 cats) so  take it as you will…

        I’m also an EMK devotee and wince and shudder at the dressing down I’d get as a client. However everyone played nicely with the pretty/sexy girl-problems problem so thank you it’s not usually so generous. I’d guess I feel a little bit of white male guilt about it frankly and though I minimally reap the benefits (no free shit/sugar-daddys, dinner hounds, NONE of that!) I see the  experience average looking women have and know my day to day is a little bit rosier. That said, I didn’t do shit about my genetics so I’d better get cracking at the gym because 41 ain’t no joke!

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    Not sure I entirely agree with men being into women on the basis of looks. I know some pretty women who are single and not so pretty women who are engaged. I like to think that personality plays a large part but then I am pretty plain.

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    No Rachel you are right.  Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so just b/c you don’t think someone is pretty or handsome doesn’t mean that the person with them feels that they are settling or picked someone who can never leave.

    At any rate, the idea that all men hold one for “pretty” or the same kind of “pretty” is just not true.  No matter what your own standards are for beauty, they are not going to be universally agreed upon.  

    Personality matters, and beauty if subjective.  I’m not sure why everyone refuses to believe what they see in real life, which is that people of varying levels of attractiveness wind up in long-term, loving relationships.   

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