Where Are All the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?

Where Are All the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men

I’m a 42 year old single mom who is very attractive (I look about 7 years younger), fun, has a great smile and laugh (and does both a LOT), emotionally stable, and not looking to race to the altar. And I definitely fit the definition of a “cool chick” – and my guy friends will confirm:-).”

Unfortunately, the pool of men that I’m dating from (early to mid 40s, usually divorced) are pretty messed up. A number of them want younger women (never mind that I look much younger) – didn’t anyone tell these guys that women hit their sexual prime over 40:-)?

I’m besieged by the 50+ set even though our lives are completely different (like my kids are young and theirs are grown and they don’t want anymore). A number of gentlemen I’ve met shouldn’t have been dating at all because they are still grieving. And the most surprising phenomenon that I’ve witnessed in this pool of men is that being a pretty, happy, vivacious “cool chick” is a big negative strike against me. I’m amazed at how many of them fall for the psycho Bs and drama queens.

My last (short-term – I can’t find one healthy enough to become long term!) boyfriend told me I was the first mentally healthy woman he dated in 3 years. But although I had everything he wanted in a woman, he didn’t feel any “chemistry” for me – so he went back to a younger woman who had serious enough issues that she lost custody of her kids. And he is not the only guy I’ve encountered like this. Another date, who didn’t feel chemistry with me but we became friends, I’ve watched him fall for all the women who don’t want to give him the time of day. He gets his butt kicked time and again and then cries on my shoulder.

I’ve tried all the big dating websites and I go out a lot (that is another weird phenomenon – men my age sit home on the weekends and don’t go out and do anything so I never meet anyone by just going out and having fun). So Evan where can I find the emotionally available mentally healthy men who will appreciate a woman like me? Thanks!!!!!


A very honest letter, Joan, which is particularly timely, given yesterday’s thematically similar posting. I anticipate that you speak for a lot of readers out there – quality woman who are frustrated at their ability to meet quality men. I can tell, from your tone, that you’re speaking your truth, based on your experience, and I would never attempt to negate it. However, I would like to expand on your truth. Maybe put it into a different perspective.

If we take everything you wrote at simply face value, you’re pretty close to the perfect woman. Young for your age, emotionally stable, cool, etc. This is good news. Now, by your estimation, there are no men out there who are either a) interested or b) qualified for a long-term relationship. Let’s analyze both of those things. And let’s delve into the assertion that “being a pretty, happy, vivacious ‘cool chick’ is a big negative strike against you. Because that’s simply untrue.

What is true is that your options are unfairly limited. This is a dilemma that faces any woman on the far side of 35. Your value goes up – your self-awareness, your experience, your wisdom, your sex drive, your income – and yet, to men, your value goes down. And the main reasons it goes down are because he wants to have kids or because he’s still a slave to the Maxim aesthetic. One reason that women rarely want to consider (and I’m not necessarily applying this to you, Joan), is that with their experience comes a darker lining. Moxie hit it on the head in yesterday’s post that successful, intelligent woman can often be anxious, self-righteous, negative, and entitled. These are not the adjectives women use to describe themselves; these are the adjectives that men often use to describe you based on their own dating experiences.

A relevant aside: Last year, it dawned on me that for every “crazy girl” dating story I had, there was a woman on the other end who was telling her own version of the story, except that in her version, she’s the heroine and I’m the bad guy. We all have myopia when it comes to dating. It’s much easier to find fault in others than it is to find it in ourselves. Studies have shown that people in couples overestimate what they bring to relationships – their generosity, their emotional availability – because they are exclusively inside their own heads. We remember our good deeds more than others’ good deeds. We don’t keep track of how many times our partner kept his/her mouth shut for the sake of harmony. But our partner does. Each of us thinks we’re the martyr.

So am I saying that you, Joan, are anxious and negative? Not at all. What I am saying is that you’re only seeing things from your own perspective. Which is limited. If you’ve gone out with a handful of guys who ended up with drama queens, that brings up a very obvious question: why would any man prefer a drama queen over you? If you think it’s because men like drama, I’ll have to respectfully disagree. I wrote about this in Why You’re Still Single. Once a man reaches a certain age, he prefers easy relationships. When we’re younger, we may tolerate craziness, just because we’re lonely or desperate for sex. But as we mature and value ourselves, we tend to court what makes sense for us in the long term. I’m not suggesting that the drama queens make sense to your ex’s, per se. I am challenging you to consider why he’d choose them over you at all. We’re largely rational beings. There has to be some reason, right?

I was on a plane two days ago and found myself seated next to an attractive and wealthy 59-year-old man. We got to talking and I learned that, not surprisingly, he had a predilection for younger women. In addition to the obvious physical attraction reasons, this man emphasized that it was so much EASIER to go out with a younger woman who has not yet been scarred by life. Someone who is up for anything. Someone who doesn’t judge. Someone who doesn’t tell you how to act. Keep in mind if you’re reading this that a younger woman doesn’t have to be a sycophant or a brainless chimp (although some insecure men are just fine with that). But for the men you’re interested in, the younger woman just has to be open and fun and easy to get along with. This is one of the things that women often ignore when they question the tastes of men. Every time I hear a woman saying that she “intimidates” men, this is what comes to mind. First of all, you don’t want to be with a man who is intimidated by you. Second of all, the greater likelihood is that not that he’s intimidated, but that he doesn’t want to be challenged by you on every little matter. This doesn’t mean he wants you to “dumb it down.” It means he wants you to “take it easy.”

That said, men ARE impossibly shallow. I struggle with it in my coaching every day. Clients who tell me, as they show me their lists of hot, underaged favorites, “I can’t help what I’m attracted to”. Yeah. There’s not much we can do about that. It’s why the 50+ set is interested in you. Just know that there ARE men out there who are looking for peers. My 60-year-old Mom married a 60-year-old guy. I’ve had single parent clients find the love of their lives on Match.com, JDate and Nerve. It happens all the time.

But one thing I’ve learned from years of dating and dating coaching, is that there’s nothing to learn when placing the blame squarely on everybody else. I hear your pain in your email, Joan. It’s frustrating out there. I completely agree. But I assume your question was not simply looking for validation: “You’re perfect. Men suck. Don’t change.” A question seeks an answer. And if you’re not arriving at the answers yourself, it’s useful to get another perspective. In this case, a male perspective.

Listen, if you’re dating online with a great profile, great photos, healthy flirting technique and a long-term subsecription, great. If you’re going out and doing things you love and putting yourself in the position to meet like-minded men, great. If you’re still finding that there isn’t one quality man in the world who wants a quality woman like you, I have to question something. There are quality men out there – even if they’re few and far between. Most of them want to date someone younger – because they can. But if you are all the things you say you are, I have no doubt that some quality single dad is going to grab you and never let you go.

Just don’t make the mistake in assuming that there are no emotionally available men, that men prefer drama, or that men don’t want “cool” women. Because that type of false thinking doesn’t lead to anything positive.

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  1. 151

    I’ve married and divorced two men who were exactly my age.  My second husband was 49 when I met him and dated children. He said that girls in their twenties think that sex is a relationship. That is easy, seamless. But he married me. Easy turned out to be what he wanted and within a year he cheated on me with a child. He told me that it was an ego thing, A child begging him for change made him feel like a man. When he needed to talk about feelings, it was me, not her that he talked to. Fragile egos are not up to my standards and I did not want him back.
    My first husband dates children and makes no pretense why he does so. He has a child with one of his girlfriends and although he loves his child, has no desire to be with the mother. He has different women (I do mean plural) every week for all the freaky sex he wants. He would, however remarry me in a minute.
    The 42 year old mom, whose question started this post, is absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with her and most older men would tell he that. Men choose young girls because they don’t have to make a choice. They can have everything their way. Grown women cost.
    Men understand equity. They know that the world does not revolve around them and they also know that the woman are not pieces of meat. In the end, they settle for women who have drive, spunk, class, standards, and a backbone. When they make a choice, they chose an equal, someone who is in the same phase of life they are in, a woman who understands them and one who can become their best friend.
    I have a lot of male friends and they always choose a woman their age for a serious relationship. The ones who date young girls are so damaged older women don’t want them. Sadly, young girls only want their money.
    Rather than teach older women to compromise their values, it might be better to encourage young women to raise their standards. Perhaps they have the attention of older men, but they don’t have the man.When you walk in a room, there are men looking at the twenty years old girls and there are men looking for stunning older women. Be what you want to attract.
    I am 53 and while I agree that quality men are hard to find, they are out there. An older women in good shape and in control of her life has plenty of choices among men who are in good shape and in control of their lives. Look for a man who married young and divorced after ten or more years. They know how to commit.
     A young man in his early thirties surprised me with a comment he made a few days ago. He said men don’t want a woman every man has had. Apparently old fashioned morality is not quite dead. Easy… has plenty of good times… In my opinion it is better to be hard to get, but worth the effort.

    1. 151.1

      This really isn’t bad advice.  Although, I feel the blanket statements about men engaging younger women comes off as a bit ageist.

      At 46 and twice divorced, I tend to agree with the earlier supposition that I am more cautious about who I date.  I have dated both older and younger than myself, although younger only by 6-7 years.

      Where I currently find myself stuck is when trying to engage women of my age, most of what I’ve run into, falls into one of two categories…

      1.  Damaged goods.  This runs the gamut from DUI’s and criminal assault records, to just being undateable after having had the rug pulled from beneath them after 20 yrs of marriage and they aren’t fit to even be sniffing around the dating scene yet, to an entire host of other “fun” issues.

      2.  The superiority complex that goes along with these confident, secure women.  Personally…  I don’t really care how great YOU think you are.  I care how great I think you are.  So, yes…  You telling me all about it is kind of immediately a turn off.  Especially if you think you’re great for something you recently managed to do in your career, and I think you’re great for the way you took in that stray dog that you now cohabitate with.

      I couldn’t begin to count the number of women who get upset when you don’t share the same amount of interest in their accomplishments.

      Now, if your only interests ARE your accomplishments, then we really never had anything in common to begin with.

      When I date it isn’t a job interview.  I don’t want the run down on your past life, or your accomplishments, necessarily.  I want to hang out with you, engage in pleasant activities, and slowly get to know who you are.  I’m not interested in being superficially examined as an applicant for your attentions either.  I’m not going on a date with you to enjoy yet another “job interview”.  It’s almost as if people have completely forgotten how to even date.  This may, or may not, be what an earlier poster was referring to when he said women should relax.  I will state clearly that this should go for both sexes.

      As for the younger women older men angle?  Who cares?  Seriously?

      I’ve attracted more than my fair share of attention from 20 somethings.  I’m not interested in them and can usually scare them off simply by stating that I’m old enough to be their father.  On the few occasions that that hasn’t worked, I can always switch to the old, “So…  You want me to set you up with my 25yr old son?”

      If a young woman is of age of consent, then who really gives a hoot if she wants to date an older man?  Whether it turns out to be the love of a lifetime, or her using him as a walking ATM…  Who cares?  How does this affect YOU?

      I listen to the negative comments surrounding it, and it’s rather amusing.  The “cougars” seem to catch a break, but not the “cradle robber”?  You’ll spout vitriol over an age difference, but I dare say no one would say a word if we were discussing interracial relationships.  Is ageism any different than racism?

      So far it sounds like most of the posters here need to learn to “relax”.


  2. 152

    Try and find us 141 – I’m not cynical, bitter and I can no longer bear children.
    How does a 60 year old woman sound to you? (I’m young spirited, pretty, slim, longish hair, bright and have some money)
    Quote And I really am loathe to generalize, but if some of these posts are indicative of the thought processes and attitudes of average “older” single women, then I’ll stick to dating women in their 20s.
    Would you girls want to date a stick-in-the-mud older guy, who is cold, stoic, emotionally distant, and devoid of passion and excitement unquote


  3. 153

    Sorry bis to comment 152 – I clicked too soon
    What makes you think that age is the concern anyway?
    I perfectly understand that a guy of your age would not want to go out with a woman of 60 – but it doesn’t necessarily follow that a girl in her 20s will be warm, open, and emotionally available.

  4. 154

    I’ve been dating again after a long sabbatical.  I’m older and mature and would like an older mature man.  But they seem to be no fun or stuck in routine or looking STILL for that perfect “IMAGE”. 
    But my big problem is their sex drives… oh so slow or impotent.  Once a night, come on.  And then there is activity time, they can’t seem to walk a mile or ski or ride a bike or climb a hill or much of anything.  They are so lazy or just want to watch sports or drink beer.  Others in 1/2 good health want to watch movies, take a drive, cook a meal.  Sooooo borrriiing.
    So I gravitate to the guys 20 years younger than me.  Ya, talk about fun, and girls wanna have fun.  Whoo. sex drives that match mine, YES!
    They can run, they can dance, they don’t give a shit about dinner, they can eat anything.  They don’t fall asleep when they drink, they laugh and laugh large.  They have goals, dreams, no bagage.  They are in the NOW the music, the techno.  They don’t want babies and neither do I.
    They are creative, excited about life, daring, interesting.  Some are into their studies and can discuss many topics without sounding like a Mr. Know it all.  They’re Greaaaaaaatttttttttttt.
    I still think young, live young. I live hard.  I expect hard!
    Young girls with older men, for what?  money?  go for it girls, love what you’re doing for me.
    And besides, most relationships are going to end.  So might as well have fun getting to that end.  
    What the hell happened to men after 40?  What the hell is going on in their lives?  So damned bitter, so much crap, and their “crazy” ex wives.  Own it dudes!  
    And to those men who say, they don’t want a women who’s had other men. Yet, they’re off to the races trying to score as many as they can get.  Sure, that makes sense.
    Nor do we want to continue this Whore-Madonna complex, BS.  Get lost with your boxes and your need for control.  Get lost.  I love my life.

  5. 155
    Jackie Gordon


    That was the perfect end response to a long string of boring depressed ones. GET IT GiRL!!!!! LOVE IT! You make me proud!

  6. 156

    for that 70% ‘i don’t bother myself by seeking for financial stabled men bcz all the men who proposed me are rich people. my problem is that I cant find a man who is sexually as I want. you can live with someone who has  less money but you cant sleep with men who don’t stimulate you.

  7. 157

    Can’t resist sharing insight in the hope of bolstering a bit of optimism.  Here are some suggestions gleaned from personal experience:
    1) There are creeps and gems in both genders, at every age.  Dating is more fun if you already have a life you love and view it as part of the adventure, and not a mission. 
    2) As an accomplished, independent woman myself, I seem to have a better experience with men who have bright, strong mothers.  These men appear better equipped to interact with our kind. 
    3) Some successes in life don’t correlate directly with effort.  I suspect dating is one of them.  The less compelled I am, the more popular I seem to be.  Perhaps this brings out the “easy and fun” attributes the men seem to find attractive.
    Best of luck to all and I  hope this helps. 

    1. 157.1

      Quite possibly the best post so far in this entire thread.

  8. 158

    I just spent two hours reading through all of these comments. I have never been married, nor do I have children by my own choice. Where is the real true love? Why in the world does it have to be broken down into business and youth?  Marriage – business..Older chasing the youth. Is it rare for me to think romance still exists for both sexes of all ages? The whole comment section has saddened me. 

    1. 158.1

      Speaking as a man I feel sorry for women, they’ve been sold a pup and many don’t realize it. From little girls they are told they are princesses and only expect to marry the “full package” whatever that might be?. Those guys are in high demand. So what’s in modern marriage for men?…..ermm..nothing……you work long hours to pay the mortgage so you don’t see your family anyways, you have hardly any rights to your kids you have should divorce strike, and your missus could just up and leave you on a whim..because she has fallen out of love with you.
      Women try to date up- into a small pool of wealthy good looking men. Guys date down into a much wider pool of women, plus there are more choices for guys. Date around, or just opt out – its selfish sure, but lifes a damn site easier. I love feminism…..women can now work long hours, bring up the kids, pay the bills, do it all as a singleton (empowered)……..i can just stay single and go fishing , and society’s ok with that….cool…..

      1. 158.1.1

        I’ve been doing that for 10 years. I’ve also found being single isn’t so bbad.  There are plenty of women choosing that path too.

  9. 159

    @Verbosity #11:
    “Regarding money, demands and compromises…my opinion is that men should never, ever commingle money (or loan, or borrow from, etc) with a woman. Why would a woman care how much a man made unless she thought she would benefit from it in some way? By not commingling money (even if married), a potential area of conflict is solved. Further, since women can do the same jobs and earn the same (actually more than) as men for the same work, they should not care one bit what a man makes.”
    Lol men who try following that principle will find that many of the women they consider desirable will not put up with that. Speaking as a very (conventionally at least) attractive woman in my mid-20s with many options, I certainly wouldn’t. And men shouldn’t be surprised by that.
    When I was in my early 20s and just dating casually, I went out with some very successful guys but I also was dated some younger guys with more average incomes. Money didn’t matter that much anyway, at that age. But now seeing the way so many guys talk about women losing value as they age, I realise the smart thing to do is to marry a man I love who is Also financially well-to-do when i’m at ‘high value’ in my 20s or early 30s. If he divorces me in the future, I’ll still have quite alot of financial security and will have less need for another partner.
    This is partly why so many pretty young women go for rich guys. Yes it’s partly biological, but it’s partly cos of a fear that they may be discarded when they get older anyway, so they might as well safeguard their financial future. I’m not gonna marry just any well-to-do man who I don’t love, but never would I marry a man I love who isn’t financially secure.

    1. 159.1
      Lucey D

      And therein lies the problem and why women like you perpetuate the problem. You are letting men control you. Your worth is tied up in a man finding you desirable, so you are going to use him now before he discards you in the future. Games. And no self respect or self worth for anything beyond your sexual value.

  10. 160

    Dear Joan, I really do appreciate this letter you wrote.

    It IS frustrating out there to find good quality men in their 40s 50s… but isn’t that true for any age? lol.!!!!!!! I think you have to determine what qualities you’re looking for and stick to that list… and don’t settle! Be true to who you are. Find hobbies and interests that interest you and maybe you’ll find a like-minded man with the same interests.

    I am a 58 year old woman, still attracting younger men. I look in my 40s. I have a date tomorrow with a 41 year old. It’s not about age, it’s about who you are.

    Be happy with you first and then pursue …. kindest regards, Beth

  11. 161

    I love how all these girl’s assume they’re all “wonderful, sexy, and smart” and it’s the men that have the shortcomings. If you’re really wonderful, sexy, and smart you wouldn’t be mewling on the internet about how unfair the dating game is. You’re likely not as smart as you think and though you might be wonderful, sexy to men will never be Ms. Wrinkles Superiorpants. Especially when there’s a 26-year-old counterpart out there with your same credentials snatching up your perfect man because the light hasn’t quite left her eyes yet. You should probably do some traveling with the time you have left. Let the dumb monkey-men play with their Barbies.

  12. 162

    One “danger”  in trying tone  more easy going and less demanding is that you can attract the  wrong types of guys i.e. those interested in open relationships, threesomes, etc. Also, I have had some guys expect me to be available according to their schedule and were upset that I actually had a life when I seemed so ” free and easy going” early on.  So, not being true to yourself in an effort to appear more accommodating does not work either.  ( I have done it and the above was who I attracted.) Finding some balance is key and is difficult.

    1. 162.1

      Great point. Balance is key. Yes, you don’t want to say, “Oh sure, call anytime you get the urge to, like 2:00 am when you can’t sleep and I have an appointment at 8:30 am.”

      But at the same time, I have had women tell me only to call in very small windows of time on specific days. I thought, “This woman is crazy.” I deleted her number from my phone right in front of her and told her that on the bright side, she didn’t have to worry about me calling her when I wasn’t allowed to.

      Reasonable to me would be setting a time not to call after so that you can get the sleep you need. Also, not calling during working hours can also be important. Setting a time to chat during lunch is reasonable. Saying, “only call between 6 and 7 on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and between 3 and 8 on Sunday. yeah, that isn’t going to work.

      Frankly some women with their careers plus soccer mom duties really don’t have time for a relationship anyway. Might be better just to concentrate on the kids until they are all off to college.

  13. 163

    As a man of 59 this is a topic dear to my heart, and one I might add spent a great deal of time researching. In recent years women have been the ones leaving marriages in droves and statistics put this as high as 75% in some areas of North America. The main reason listed are not the usual three A’s ( Adultery, Addiction and Abuse), but a sense of unhappiness/falling out of love etc. which in in a sense would be viewed if the shoe were on the male foot as a “Mid Life Crisis”.
    Many Men in this category ( those who have not committed the crimes against marriage listed above and have been divorced) , who used to think their situation was rare or unique to themselves, know this is not the case now. Men are now comparing notes online and are very leary of having long term relationships with women in their 40’s for this reason, after being what’s now termed “Frivorced”.  Women on the verge of menopause are viewed as potential bombs, many of the men in this category have already watched their wives become someone they no longer recognize once they hit their early to mid 40’s.
    Now I know the response to this is probably going to be a chorus of  “Bitter/Mysogynist/Loser” , but it is the simple truth as sizable number  middle aged men post divorce see it. Further making this more difficult for women is that women are generally far pickier than the men and have more unrealistic expectations than men.  One of the largest online dating services “OKCupid” has done many studies on the dynamics of “who choses who”, the latest indicates that the women found 80% of men unattractive, the majority not willing to date someone under 6′ , the men on the other hand found only 20% of the women unattractive and really had no problem dating women of any height.

  14. 164

    Hi all

    Wow is all i can say, I read a few pages to this and then stopped. We are all wonderful and unique in our way and our genders are disfferent too. Happiness comes from within and so does sense of peace and being as one. We all have a journey in life and gender role and how we live our lives have rapidly changed we are the generation to feel this shift. Its impacting on men, women and how we live our lives as families in the western world. The next generation will have a better handle on this and the generation down again even better. I feel both genders are struggling within qhat we have created only through thought judgement and expectations. When you realise all source comes from the internal eye energies will shift ie if you dont like what your seeing change yoir own lense. This takes commitment and work , live each day likeita your last, have fun and love freely and be present without ego or expectations. V (single for 3 years having fun loving life ) 🙂 x


  15. 165

    Sorry to break it to you old men, but younger women will only go with you if they can use you for your money……I dated an older man and I was not impressed and really turned off by him, because I am a younger women and old men are a sexual turn off to me, I find them really sexually unattractive!!……a lot of other younger women think they same as me, and if they do go with older men it is only to use them for money and security, but they secretly hate you a lot of the time, and would probably leave you if they could get a younger man who is on the same level as her sexually, and shares her youthful outlook on life…..and to end with, younger women don’t respect older men as they know the older man is only trying to use her for sex, quite honestly I am disgusted with some older men who feel they are entitled to a young women, well- we want young men!!!!!!!

  16. 166

    Maybe its me, or maybe its that I don’t live in California, but I’m just not seeing this man-dating-women-20-years-his-junior thing that everyone is talking about. In fact have observed a real fad of “cougar hunting” out there and am regularly approached by men 20 years younger than me. (Ick.) But here is the thing that I have found- when I see handsome guys my age or slightly older who also have advanced university degrees (I’m working on a PhD) and solid careers, they don’t message me. Everyone else does, but not them. I don’t know who these guys fancy. Maybe they are the ones dating 20 somethings where I live. I look pretty good and younger than my actual age (put 20 years and 20 lbs on a supermodel and you have me) and if these guys actually met me, they would probably find plenty of reasons not to date me (none of which are in my on-line profile) but I never have that chance to disappoint them. Hmmm. It makes me wonder whats going on there.

  17. 167

    “Maybe its me, or maybe its that I don’t live in California, but I’m just not seeing this man-dating-women-20-years-his-junior thing that everyone is talking about. In fact have observed a real fad of “cougar hunting” out there and am regularly approached by men 20 years younger than me.”

    I don’t doubt that one bit. But how many of those Cougar hunters, even those just a few years younger are serious about a very LTR?

    If I may, let me share some insight into the much younger man. He is often perturbed by the women his age when he decides to go Cougar hunting. He is tired of having to work so hard to get what he wants. Those younger women are in hot demand and they know it. He sees older women easier. They may or may not be easy, but they are always “easier” than the younger women. For one thing, the Cougars see the younger guys as “yummy,” and this affects how you act. Like it or not, older women will see some younger guys as very attractive, when younger women may see the guy as somewhat average.

    Younger guys also know it is easier to have a “long” short term relationship with an older woman.

    Younger guys know you have your own resources while he may not have built his up yet. While older women are not anywhere near as generous with their money, they are more generous a younger woman because the older woman often has more money to be generous with, and she sees him as “yummy.” LOL Anyway, for many younger guys this is an attractive thing…for a while. But as he “grows up,” and gains his own resources, that may actually reverse. He may in fact resent her unfairly or not, while believing that she tries to wear the pants because she makes the money. This of course only applies to those guys who are just getting their careers started, and or went into career fields that don’t pay very well. The point here is that even if you aren’t paying off his college loans, you still have your own money so he doesn’t have to spend as much of his to be with you. He will outgrow this if he is successful at all in life.

    While most men may go “eww” at the thought of marrying an older woman, very few go “eww” at the thought of having sex with her, if she is at all decent looking. For some, decent looking isn’t even required. Many guys see sex like pizza. You know the old saying about pizza? “Pizza ranges from good to great. There is no such thing as a bad pizza.” Well some guys view sex the same way. Sex with an ugly woman is better than no sex at all, in their mind.

    I’ll never forget the first time was exposed to this. I was early 20s, around 22 or 23. I friend was hitting up an older woman, not exaxctly huge, but not built like the twenty somethings we normally chased. In fact, I am sure thinking back, that men her age and older probably thought she was a good looking woman. Well he asked me to stop drinking fairly early because he wanted me to drive his motorcycle home. Yes, he actually rode his motorcycle to the club. We hadn’t actually intended to go to a club. Went to a movie first, and then the guy with the car bailed almost right away. Anyway, I hadn’t even finished half of my beer, so I agreed. The next day, he was bragging to everybody who would listen, that he had bagged an “old hog.” That was right before “Cougar” became the commonplace name. It was being used, but not as much as it is now. I remember one of the guys asking if she was really that fat and he said, “huge.” I remember thinking that she wasn’t huge, but was certainly not built for speed either. I would have described her as a bit chunky.

    Many younger guys see older women as “practice.” They expect to learn things from her. Things that will make them more successful with younger women later on. This can even be guys in their late 20s and early 30s. Even if they aren’t totally inexperienced, older women still represent an opportunity to learn more. She’s older and wiser, or at least that is the stereotype.

    But, there are the very very very very rare guys who actually want an older woman. But the reality is, I can almost assure you that on any personality type testing, these guys don’t test as leader types. But, that may be perfect for some women who do want to wear the pants in the relationship. It may be perfect for her. But you still have to know going in, if you are dating a younger guy, you better have your radar on and antenna up. Pay attention. Even Evan admitted to loving older women but still ended up with a woman his age, and he even admits that everybody else was asking, “why be with an older woman when you can be with a younger one, while he asked the opposite.” The point is, most men don’t want to marry an older woman. Some men do anyway, and then when the honeymoon is over ask themselves what the heck were they thinking. I have a few friends that did and then bailed out of those marriages a few to several years later. To a man, they admitted that she simply got “old” faster than was to his liking.

    None of this may sound fair but life isn’t fair. We live in a society where marriage is no longer really required, for anything. 60 or 70 years ago, a man might be looked down on if he hadn’t married by the time he was 30, but now a man who hasn’t married by the time he is 50 is just another guy. Society doesn’t really looking down on people for not getting married. I’m not talking about mom and aunt Jenny who want you to provide them with some kids to play with, I am talking about society. There is so little left in marriage, compared to the risks involved, why get married if you aren’t getting what you really want in a woman. Let’s see, there’s kids which means you will soon be #2 in her heart. There’s divorce, and oh, she is likely to slap a restraining order on you as a power play during the divorce. There goes your gun rights, and many other rights. Add to this the outrageous level of child support. Like a friend in the Navy who had two girls. He brought home about $2,000 a month,at the time, and $850 of it went to child support. Crazy. And this is just scratching the surface. So looking at it as risk vs reward, why would a guy want to marry unless he is getting a woman he feels is totally awesome? Not perfect, just awesome.

    I am frankly tired of even talking about it because I know people only hear what they want to hear. But I wish I could have a dollar for every 30’s to 40s woman who thinks she is going to find a young buck to marry her, but ends up going from short term to short term. It’s like alternate universes existing in the same plane. The young bucks know going in that it isn’t forever, and when it ends, it is just simply a day that he knew was going to come sooner or later. For her, she thinks it’s like in her earlier days when she was dating guys her age, and it just didn’t work out. She can’t accept in her mind that he knew all along that he would eventually bail out. But it’s true much much more often than not.

    I’m not saying not to date younger guys. Why would I? Women are still going to fall for that cute younger guy and date him. My advice is actually the same as Evan’s. If you are going to date a younger guy, better keep your mind on the fact that it’s just fun, and not serious. I would also add however, since it came up in another topic, if you aren’t built for NSA sex, and want to know, or believe going in that there is a very good likelihood that it ends in marriage, you really need to rethink dating younger guys. If you are the opposite if you are more interested in fun than commitment, than I would highly recommend dating younger guys. Karmic Equation is a good example. She noted in one of her posts that I read, that she is really more interested in just having fun and not worried about getting married. For her, I would actually recommend sticking with the younger guys because they are far less likely to even want to push for commitment.

    One last note on the PhD peers. What do you see when you go to “bring the spouse” functions that draw your peers together in one place? Are most of them married to fellow PhDs? Or is it a mixed bag, a couple of PhDs, a few Masters, a lot of Bachelor’s, some Associates, and a handful of high school grads? That’s what I would expect. Men with educations are not typically looking for a peer to marry. I think the fact that so many college grads marry each other has far less to do with men looking for it than the fact that so many people now have degrees, and having one puts you in constant contact with others who have them, and then love happens.

    Since I don’t now you, don’t know what you look like, and don’t know what you write in an online profile, there is no wy for me to honestly judge why I think men would not message you. However, men with PhD’s tend to be seen as leaders, and often make a fair amount of money, and like it or not, that is very attractive to women. I think Evan has a post about women trading looks and youth for money. I am not sure what it says, but I saw a YouTube video where women were shown pictures of guys and asked to rate them. Then salaries were added to the pictures and a guy who had been given a very high score was given a very low salary in the $25K region, while a guy who had been given an average of about 4 was given a salary of over $200,000. Then women were once again asked to rate them. The guy went from an average of 4 to an average of over 7. Some women rated him above that, some giving him 8’s and 9’s and one flat out said 10. The guy with the low salary but good looks dropped a significant amount.

    So my guess is that a guy who is a PhD, or even has a Masters, is good looking, charming, and basically has it together…he is definitely going to be the type that can and does attract younger women. And let’s clear something up right now…that whole thing about a “trophy wife” is BS. Outside of a few rare men, they care much less about what others think and what his own penis thinks. In other words, he wants the hot younger wife because she turns him on, not because she looks good on his arm. I actually know an older guy who has a hot younger wife and was accused of just wanting a trophy wife. His crude reply was that he didn’t care what she looked like on his arm, he cared what she looked like on his D***.

    I know that it isn’t very popular among women with your level of education, but maybe you might want to open up to a broader range of men. Drop any eduction requirements. Send out a few emails to guys that look good to you. Read their profile and if you can clue into something intellectual that he may like, strike up a conversation based on that. Me, I like history. If, for instance, there was something in current events about something historical, and you struck up a conversation about it, I would be hooked in to at least talking. That opens the door to getting to know each other, so I have to assume it would work with other guys.

    Also, maybe downplay all of the power stuff you may have in your profile, and try to appeal to the man side of men. Are you extremely affectionate? If so, highlight that. I think men respond to when you build a romantic picture in their mind that matches their idea of romance. For instance, if you love to travel and want a man to travel with you, describe a setting, and more importantly, how you see you two interacting in that setting. If for instance, you wrote that you love the idea of cuddling on a balcony, along the French Riviera, while watching the sun go down, and sipping on a sweet French wine, that would appeal to me. For another man, it might appeal less with the cuddling and more with just sharing conversation in the same setting. So think about what you prefer, and then state it and hopefully the right guys will see it and read it.

    1. 167.1

      Thank you Garrett for explaining why I was not at all complemented when these 20 something (or 30 something) kids wrote to me online.  They think a few compliments like “Your Hot” are going to float my boat.  They think we mature women are so desperate for a relationship that we’ll bang some college kid the same age as our children.  My roomie told me I should feel complemented, I told her I actually feel insulted.  I’ve raised one child, I do not want another.
      I read the dating websites, the ones for men, and the ones for women.  I know how these young guys feel about the older women they give fake complements to.  I’ve read those websites and they say things like “Women are like poop, the older they get, the easier they are to pick up”.
      So when these punk 20 year olds write and tell me that they can’t believe I’m really 59, and that I am so hot, and that age doesn’t matter, I know that they really just think I’m a desparate piece of crap, an easy lay, and maybe even a potential cash cow.  I usually just ignore them, or answer them kindly with a “Thanks but no thanks” if they persist, but in the future, perhaps I won’t be so kind. 
      I really don’t want to be their social worker, helping them work out their frustrations with women their own age or their “mommy issues”.  If they can’t attract women their own age and they want to use a woman for their own purposes, let ’em shell out the money for a hooker.

      1. 167.1.1

        Emerald Dust, you win the internet today. 😄

      2. 167.1.2

        Let me add, what is both funny and telling is that when you turn the turn the young guys down, they seem genuinely shocked. But the question is usually, “don’t you like sex?”

  18. 168

    Everyone gets older, what’s the big deal? Get over it! You prefer the alternative?

  19. 169
    Mike Nike

    Men are also far more sexual creatures.  Men give it away because they want it, women somehow require payment in one way or another.  To her, a man either deserves or doesn’t deserve it.  To men …. we just want it, now, upside down, and against the wall, yes, even if we were mad at you ten minutes ago. 

    1. 169.1
      Lucey D

      Just stop commenting. Really. Ignorance is bliss, man. ALL of my single girl friends (30s and 40s) are waaay more sexual than their male counterparts… we are having to date 2 and 3 men at a time to get our sexual needs fulfilled so I don’t know where all these men with these high sex drives are… send them my way, please!

  20. 170

    Feeling blessed by this thread. 😃

  21. 171

    Wow I don’t know how old this thread is but I still want to add my comment.
    I couldn’t read half the discussion because it was exhausting and in parts quite irritating (from both sides).

    I’m 35, I have a busy life and I have only recently decided to try online dating. I have always thought that love just happens, but it never did. The only time I had a almost proper relationship was at the age of 34. It did just happen as I met him in my (ex) hiking group. But it was so emotionally and psychologically abusive that after the breakup I ended up in therapy and in blogs like this. Until then I had never been interested in psychology or relationship advice.
    Surely I learnt a lot. But I am also frustrated at seeing how unattractive my age is online. So I do sympathize with women 35+.

    Anyway. I would really like to have Evan’s opinion on what follows, please.

    I agree with Evan that many men don’t even consider doing self-help and changing their habits and that women have the power to change only themselves.
    I agree with the guys who claim that men want a easy life.
    But there is a difference between easy and lazy. Between “just being yourself” and not wanting to grow as a person.

    I find it very offensive and patronising when I read profiles of men who are divorced with kids, or who are 50 and never had a long term relationship, and yet say: “no baggage please” or “no psychos please”. I think something like that is already a sign that those men have baggage as well.

    Who on Earth doesn’t have baggage when they are over 30?

    And how do you value how big someone’s baggage is? Surely everybody thinks their own baggage is smaller than other people’s!

    It’s easy to say women are all psychos, but just because we are more emotional doesn’t mean that our problems are bigger.
    Personally speaking, the ex who broke my heart had an awful amount of problems himself. I don’t know if he is a narcissist, a sociopath or just an immature a-hole… But I felt like I was paying for what he thought his exes (and the whole world) did to him.
    I was very inexperienced and I put up with a lot of his anger, disrespect, silent treatment, etc.
    Is that what men consider as easy life? Doing as you please and having a doormat always available because she doesn’t know better?
    Of course a 20 year old is more likely immature enough to put up with poor behaviour.
    Of course a 20 year old will heal faster if you break her heart.
    And of course ladies in their 20s are more physically attractive, less under pressure to have children, etc.

    But I do want to believe that there are also men my age who are after something better than that.

  22. 172

    Evan said “there are quality men out there–even if they’re few and far between.” He’s absolutely right–there are wonderful single guys available. The problem comes in where women are usually relationship oriented and not few. It’s like an impossible game of musical chairs. For every stable, relationship oriented guy there are twe try women waving, “Pick me, pick me!” It sets up an imbalance and leaves guys getting away with a lot of cruddy behavior and women knowing the next several coming down the pike will be worse. I love men and appreciate all the ways they’ve contributed to my life. But I too want something easy, tired of it being a fight. most of us don’t have the luxury of having a calm 40 hr week job. Most self supporting women are putting in ten hour days. I will continue to be open, hopeful, carry myself in my feminine way. I will keep a balance of how much time I spend trying to meet man after man. I’m never sorry after an evening out with friends but often feel time wasted after another bad date. Wishing you all the best in your search.

  23. 173

    “Where are all the mentally healthy men are?”

    I’ll tell you…

    If he is mentally healthy, he most likely is in his mid to late 30’s, without any kids, or baggage,and don’t want to be bothered with someone that has kids already.

    Short and simple. 

    1. 173.1

      Yup!! But we do want to be bothered as in bothered GO OUT AND DATE. Men are tired of seeing all these girls that want to be ladies continually dating these worthless Non Emotionally AVAILABLE men aka A-Holes. Seriously girls, your have to ask this??? Where are all the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men? Either all in your da** “just friends” bu**sh** box, OR we have OUR D**N Sh** TOGETHER (graduated college, graduate school graduates, have our careers, make good decent money, have our 401k’s, have great PTO, doing fun things)… We’ve been WAITING TO DATE YOU. But all us (Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men) get is nope, nope or you girls have the waiting for Mr. Adonis written all over your faces. ALL WHILE YOU GIRLS OR EM WANT TO BE LADIES BUT CONTINUALLY KEEP DATING THESE PATHETIC LOSER GUYS THAT DON’T HAVE SH** GOING FOR THEM AKA (no job, or shitty job they hate, still live with mommy and daddy, don’t have reliable vehicle, aren’t ambitious.


      When you girls/want to be ladies, become ladies get with the program and start saying YES YES YES to us Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men ya know when we type guys ask you out on a DATE and you ladies won’t lambast and emphatically say no at the top of your lungs. So ladies the only way you’re going to get the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men aka (marriage material guys) is to lose a lot (not all) but a lot of your cra**y “requirements” and get serious “requirements” as in good job, career, good family, reliable vehicle, owns his home, aka has his sh*t together you LADIES HAVE to say YES to a date with us and get to know us. Not this BS 5 min fantasy la la perfect Adonis BS. Otherwise you ladies will be stuck with the EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE A-HOLE D-BAGS that don’t want anything to do with you except wham bam thanks now buh bye.

  24. 174

    Best to find a widower
    But my GF with 3 kids married a good guy with 4 kids
    Basically The Brady Bunch
    Still together 8 yrs and counting.
    Just live a good life
    Be your personal best
    Life is not all about coupling.
    Life can be vast and you never know where it will bring you
    If you get out of the box and expand your possibilities
    Love will find you maybe not in a twosome but universally
    Free your mind free your mind  lol 

  25. 175

    I think this author really has his stuff together. Loved what he had to say. Dating coach. I never knew they existed but it seems like everyone needs a coach nowadays. Why do you think that is?

  26. 176

    No. That’s not the problem. No mentally healthy man would date or marry a divorced woman up her 40’s. You are searching for the impossible, miss.

    1. 176.1

      “Yoshi” mmm ? “up” her 40’s, mmm?
      Maybe too much Nintendo in your innuendo.

      Maybe there are no mentally healthy men above 40.

      My ace.. your serve..

    2. 176.2
      Lucey D

      The most random, inaccurate, unspecific comment ever… of course a “mentally healthy” man would date a women in her 40s. Many do and will continue to, not only men who are in her dating range but also younger men who want a cougar. Might want to try getting out in the real world

  27. 177
    Jill P.

    All I hear are a bunch of extremely jaded men and women who refuse to own their crap and instead blame the opposite sex.  America is a dating cess pool at any age.  

  28. 178

    You need to stop blaming women aging for this, for a start it’s insulting to the intelligence of men to reduce everything to biology, the guys are getting older too so aging goes both ways, and the impact of age is overemphasized in these sort of discussions.
    As to the guys ignoring 40s 50s women online, they aren’t, mostly they’re sending hate and accusatory mail and playing games (if you want proof search the photos of the age group above your own and you’ll spot just how many men listed as your age look suspiciously like those 20 years older, they’re worse for it than the women). My peers in their 40s online are hostile, it’s like I’m being interrogated, viewed with suspicion and punished for something I haven’t even done (many are trolling). The vibe from many I have to say is an even more antagonistic version of when I had a sudden career jump in my 20s and the men I had been dating suddenly got insecure about this “market value” nonsense saying I “must be up to something” to want to date the same kind of man I grew up with. My “must be up to something” now is I’m approachable, just having a profile (putting myself out there) is apparently evidence. I very quickly found I needed to be curt to get any respect on the net, the contents of my inbox also changed radically when I stated I was looking for men 1-5 years younger and was not interested in older men (I just got sick of the rude mail and the younger guys were nicer to me so I figured I’d give them a chance), it was then I started getting messages from men my age to 5 years older (who had previously ignored or been rude to me) with a very warm “can I convince you to try something different?”, this is the tone of mail a 30 something gets from men in their 50s who knowing it’s a long shot are trying to endear themselves, and the younger guys, yep, they started being rude, (a few new phrases on my profile and changing my seeking criteria was the only difference, so what changed?) Well guess what, any man who doesn’t try to endear himself in the first message gets the delete button regardless of what’s on my profile because me not putting up with a guy being a jerk doesn’t change just because I’m on the net. If you’re a woman online sorry to say but no matter how nice you are in person you do have to be a hardliner on the net to get any respect and you do have to come off as just out of the reach of your target audience for them to be interested or they think you’re unwanted and desperate. I’ve always played things straight so this really pees me off but as long as men are acting this way women are going to have to draw a line in the sand and play to the kind of man they want to date instead of being open handed about it.

    I don’t think that it’s the guys my age don’t want peers, I think they go looking for what they know and a sense of control which for them is the dating style and interests of the younger generation they were in the last time they were dating, more so if they’re recently divorced, that so many online are separated tells me that is where a lot of this male insecurity is coming from. Suddenly being single and older and the rebound effect is being taken out on their dates, they’re looking for comfort and familiarity but it’s at the expense of women they are interacting with, I’ve seen a lot of guys too take out their frustrations at their wife on women online.

  29. 179

    Reading this whole blog has made me incredibly sad-we are both at war with each other and its awful.  I really want to get back into dating and ultimately find someone to share the rest of my life with, but with all the attitudes on here, I’m not too hopeful.  What a shame.

  30. 180

    Goodness. Where to start? First off, it is not normal for old men to chase young women, despite the statistics, reproduction drive, etc. How many men in late 40s, early 50s, really want to impregnate women? They often have sired children already and don’t want more fo them. The fresh, firm skin argument is understandable (men sag too — get bellies, lose their hair, etc.), but most smart, successful men I know want a woman they can relate to as a peer and companion, not a giggling adolescent, regardless of suppleness. The guys who chase after young flesh — and there are many — are typically not desirable anyway. Most are indiscriinate and poor catches for various reasons. How many women remember being chased by middle aged guys when they were in their teens and 20s? Were any of them desirable? Probably 99 percent of htem were undesirable.

    Why do men do this? Their sexual preferences have been shaped by culture — which, in the United States, was shaped by Alfred Kinsey. who spurred promiscuity, encouraged fathers to molest daughters and acquire a predilection for “young, firm flesh,” and pedophilia (look it up) to make selection of mates based upon sex rather than true bonding and destroy the family unit. Go to Europe and you will encounter a surfeit of men who prefer women and relate to women as peers, with women reminding them of a fine wine that gets better with age.

    Now, my experience as a woman in her 40s….If I say so myself, I am attractive, well educated, and fit. I attract men in 40s plus. I am currently dating a man in his 50s, who prefers older women. Men in their 50s generally have a lot of emotional baggage from previous marriages…As they age, they also lose their physical appeal. I would not even consider men most men in their 50s and above, based upon their physical appearance alone — the sagging bellies, liver spots, strands of hair hanging on for dear life on top of their heads….

    I agree with other sentiments expressed that it is a myth that men look better as they age….No, they just look old, and often times repulsive. If I, as a younger woman, had fallen in love with a peer and aged with him, I could overlook these qualities, but I cannot imagine myself getting physically intimate with these old men….who do chase…People should date peers for the simple reason that you are at the same place/stage in life and are peers, just as you should also seek similar values, upbringings, levels of education, life goals, etc. You can also overlook each other’s physical flaws. As a woman in her 40s, I can overlook some aging in a man in his 50s — that I would, as a 20-something, found repugnant.

    I agree with the sentiment that older (and I would say, wiser) people prefer “easy.” WHat that means is a person who can go with the flow, be positive, and not sweat the small stuff, allowing life to assume a certain fludity, level of comfort, and charm. As you get older, you are more likely to value your time and conserve your energy, realizing you don’t have time to indulge people or activities that make you uncomfortable or sap your energy. I will similarly walk away from friends, male and female, who are an energy suck and deprive me of joy, rather than contribute to it. I think it can be summarized as living the wisdom of “The Secret.”

    I have a few very intelligent female friends who interrogate me on every little thing, must be disagreeable and act entitled, negative, domineering….They might be quality people, but I Would rather not waste my time. I also knoew intelligent women who are a joy to be around…..I also don’t have time for difficult men….I prefer relationships to be “easy.”

    Younger people may possess ease for the simple reason that their personalities and priorities are still taking shape and they are easy to control/dominate. Older men have no business dominating these women, imposing their will, and trying to consume their time/youthful energy since thehy are ‘easy;” Young people should be able to trust and look up to old men, knowing they aren’t chasing young flesh for thier “ease” and “supple, firm skin.”

    The ease an older person has is entirely different. They know who they are and chose to trust life, a higher power, and just flow with life…Instead of fighting what doesn’t work, they simply remove themselves….An older man would do better to pursue a woman who understands the wisdom of ease rather than trying to exploit a young person’s naivete and impose one’s will on their life…Let young people grow up and find themselves without having to be molested/harassed/dominated my old men trying to reclaim their youth. Easy youth exploited today by old men become tomorrow’s bitter old women…Leave them alone…

    I personally have no respect for older men chasing young girls…..and am happily finding that a lot of older, more mature, established men have no problem dating me. I do appreciate that I no longer have the youthful allure not am as ferile….and that most men in my age range are now married, divorced, or have plenty of baggage. There are also a lot of decent men and good potential partners out there too who are within my age range…

    Going back to the concept of ease…You will attract what you are…In order for a woman to find an emotionally available, mentally healthy man, she needs to be a health woman…. Frankly a quality woman wouldn’t want the old farts who are chasing after young flesh anyway. YOu didn’t want those men when you were young, and you certainly don’t want them now…Let them chase and make fools of themselves…and endure the4 mockery,.social stigma, and pity that is afforded them while they delude themselves into thinking they are merely distinguished men.Their prizes usually have daddy issues or are opportunists and will use/abandon these men, and/or laugh about them behind their backs. Guys….if you doubt this happens…read the numerous boards online about how young women realy feel about old guys hitting on them. Most are not flattered…They are disgusted. Young women don’t want you…but some will make exceptions for psychological/financial reasons…If you want to reduce yourself to an old fool….that is your business….

    Not sure where I am going with this….I guess I went off an a few tangents.. Take from it what you will….

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