Why Are Women Expected to Date Men With a Lower Educational Level?

Why Are Women Expected to Date Men With a Lower Educational Level?

Dear Evan,

I was at a speed dating event last night for the second time. Just like the first time, it was full of smart, pretty, successful women in their thirties and forties and men of similar ages with manual labor jobs (and a few running their own manual labor businesses) but no men of equivalent professional or educational status except for one doctor. Why he was there, I do not know, as he made it clear that he was not really looking to date anyone. He did however buy me a drink in the bar afterwards and asked me what I thought of the event. I said I would be unlikely to go again because I have nothing in common to talk about with the men that I have met at these events.

He proceeded to give me a lecture as to why I shouldn’t automatically dismiss dating the two guys who were responsible for service washes in the launderette as they may be perfectly nice people and that career women in their thirties get what they deserve if they don’t. I am just wondering how many other men think like this? For me, it seems plain common sense that, while professional women with masters degrees may be compatible with men in less successful professions, the guy that left school with no qualifications to work in the launderette is highly unlikely to be a good fit.

It is not the first time that I have come across the attitude that career women deserve to be alone if they don’t want to date men without any education, or men a generation older, or the obese. I am just wondering how many men really think like this.



It doesn’t matter how many men think like this.

Just like KC’s email a few weeks ago about how she receives emails from disappointing men she meets online, you’re illustrating an amusing concern with men’s preferences in women.

Men do what they want. They don’t do what you want.

My answer to you is largely the same as my answer to her.

Men do what they want. They don’t do what you want.

If he is a dishwasher and he finds you pretty, he’s going to ask you out.

If you don’t go out with him because you intimate that you’re “above” him on the dating food chain, it’s predictable that he might lash out at you.

You may be technically correct that he’s not of your social station, but that’s of no concern to the man you’ve just insulted to his face.

Literally, the ONLY thing he can do when you tell him that you have nothing in common (without getting to know him) is tell you that you’re wrong for judging people and that this attitude may come back to haunt you.

Women tend to adhere more to their checklists, which usually call for a man who is just like you, but better. And without your flaws.

He’s right about that. This is one of the big blind spots that women have in dating.

Allow me to explain.

You painted a black and white world, Fiona. It wasn’t that he was less educated than you. It’s that he was a laundry operator. It’s not that a man is older than you, it’s that he’s a generation older than you. It’s not that he’s a few pounds overweight, it’s that he’s obese. All of your examples are extreme, but not all men are extreme examples of anything.

So, to be crystal clear: no one (besides the fat, stupid and elderly) is saying that you have to date the fat, stupid, or elderly.

Got it? Good.

How do I find a man with traits I desireWhat I am saying – and what these men are inartfully suggesting as well – is that you don’t marry a list of traits. You marry a human being. And if you never think outside the box, you may well find yourself standing alone at the end of the dance.

The reason that I call this a blind spot for women is because women tend to adhere more to their checklists, which usually call for a man who is just like you, but better. And without your flaws.

Taller. Richer. Smarter. Funnier. Saner. Sexier.

Alas, men don’t care if you’re taller, richer, smarter, or funnier.

We just want you to think that we’re amazing.

Which is why men can date ANYONE – regardless of education, income, and height – while many women can only date 1 in 1000 men who are 6 feet tall, with a masters degree and a $200,000 income.

So are some men unrealistic in thinking that they deserve a chance with you?

Yes, they are.

Are they also correct in pointing out that they are open to a lot more women than you are open to men, and this may hinder your ability to find lasting love?

Yes, they are.

To your original question, no one is saying (apart from the jilted men) that you deserve to be alone. But I would be remiss if I didn’t pull out the nugget of wisdom from the flawed logic of the laundry operator.

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  1. 391

    Am I wrong to believe it was the doctor who said that She would get what She deserved? He was meeting and greeting at a speed dating event but not interested in dating, really?
     Men don’t mind casual dating as much as women! Just because a doctor dates a waitress it does not mean he is going to marry her. A woman does not have in mind that She wants a pretend relationship with a fast food worker. An educated man will date a fast food worker and compliment himself on the fact that he isn’t a snob. All the while he is using her as his personal porn star and when he tires will find one thing wrong that was obvious from the get-go and drop her. But, he ” tried”

    I know beautiful women who don’t have careers or fine educations  are constantly being made to feel ashamed over the fact. Even made to feel foolish that they focused so much on their looks. The average looking, slightly pudgy career woman feels constantly ashamed that maybe She focused too much on her education etc… We are all deeply insecure unless we are thin, beautiful, educated and have great jobs.

    A man did once tell me that if he wants intellectual stimulation he can pick up a book. Women are for sex and he wants a hot partner.  I do believe that if a career woman dates beneath herself She should pick for looks and cool, kind disposition alone. Perhaps, trade in for a newer model every so often as well.



    1. 391.1

      Alice wrote “I know beautiful women who don’t have fine careers or educations that are made to feel ashamed over the fact.”

      Not not likely by men, I think.  Women are HIGHLY competitive with each other, especially when they perceive another woman as higher status.  The woman who is perceived as higher status is often ridiculed by other women so that she is not seen as better.  Hence the beautiful woman who is shamed for lack of education, and hence the educated woman shamed for lack of beauty.  Men don’t interact that way – not with each other, and not with women (we compete differently and don’t often use shame).

      So much of women’s insecurity, I think, comes from competition with other women.  Therein also lies the cause for their confusion about what men want – confused by extrapolation from what WOMEN want. 

  2. 392

    It matters to me, increasingly, that a partner shares at least some of my education and intelligence. I lived with a guy for 5 years, and initially we got on quite well (we both dived, and that was a real pleasure). He worked as a truck driver down mines for 30 years and then, during the time we were together, a taxi driver. It wasn’t so much his lack of intelligence (he was quite bright), it was his lack of ambition as well as the fact that we couldn’t share much in the way of ideas.  I’ve been out with dozens of guys who haven’t got a PhD, like myself, indeed some who didn’t finish high school, but it really boils down to the fact that we had little to share with one another. So, Evan, I disagree with you. Some parity of education does matter. There is a whole culture that is not being shared, a whole philosophy of being. I actually value a capacity for knowledgeable and intelligent conversation.
    My ex told good stories, but the stories were not new. He told the same ones over and over and over again. He fell asleep trying to read books. He didn’t try, at all, to increase his knowledge base. He had an ambition to go to college, but couldn’t do the homework required for college entrance.
    Intelligent conversation really matters. If the man isn’t up to it, then it’s rather sad. I really miss the kind of conversation I had with a couple of wonderful men I knew years ago. Both are now deceased. So, I’m left with an ache in my heart.

    1. 392.1

      Spot on.
      I‘m not looking for just a breeder and a provider, I want a partner. I look for someone with whom I could talk to when we‘re old and grey, the kids are away (if we have them), sex is off the table and theres not much of anything else to do but talk. Time usually reveals huge differences in worldviews and interests that less educated men and I have. Sure, interests don’t make a life, but neither does the mere fact of having babies together. Can you build a life together while living in completely different worlds? Not really.

  3. 393

    1. take it or leave it, period.
    2. If you don’t like him, go find someone else and go to step 1.

  4. 394

    It’s painful to read the words of these middle ages women. Feminism has set them down a road of guaranteed failure and they’re starting to feel the effects of it. I usually preach about personal responsibility but women in general are followers by nature and they only followed the zeitgeist by living the sex and the city lifestyle. Teach your daughters to know better, all you can really do.

  5. 395

    The point, which most of you seem to be missing, is that there is nothing wrong with expecting your partner to bring the same things to the table that you do. It’s called looking for your equal. As much as people may want to believe that education and socio-economic status only play a small part in a successful relationship, even when the man is the less “successful” of the two – which goes against centuries of mores the world over, countless studies, statistics and real-life couples strongly suggest otherwise. My standards are high, but they are in line with what I myself bring to the table and every man with whom I’ve had a relationship has met them. Like someone in a popular movie once said, “Settling never made anyone very happy.”

    1. 395.1


      I strongly disagree that guys are missing that point. I think most guys, myself included, would most certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with trying to find someone on your level.

      The one problem I have always had is the idea that plenty of women have that no man is good enough for them, and bring absolutely NOTHING to the table in any relationship.  The attitude is that men are nothing but lower life forms to be disdained at best.

      If that’s all that’s out there in the dating pool, I do not swim!!!    

    2. 395.2

      Sophia, you wrote: “The point, which most of you seem to be missing, is that there is nothing wrong with expecting your partner to bring the same things to the table that you do”
      This is a perspective that I think many women share with you, but most men don’t.  I read your statement and the first thing that crossed my mind was, why would I want to marry someone who brings the same things to the table that I do?  Wouldn’t that be like marrying myself?  That is the last thing I would want!
      As has been stated in earlier comments, most men DO NOT want a partner who brings the same things to the table that they do – they want someone who brings the things they lack.
      Men view attraction from the polarity of masculinity and femininity.  We ego-invest our masculinity in certain concepts – some of us invest in our intelligence, education, and income potential.  Others invest in their physique.  Still others in their creativity and craftsmanship.  Whatever qualities a particular man ego-invests his masculinity into, he will consider those qualities as MASCULINE.  He will hope that a woman will find those qualities attractive in him, and he would NOT find those qualities attractive in a woman.  Instead, he would look for her to possess other complimentary qualities that he would find attractive. 
      I realize that this isn’t how most women see things.  That much is evident from the comments that so many have made on this blog.  But so many women believe that men are intimidated by educated, intelligent women, and the truth is that it is not a matter of intimidation but rather of lack of attraction.  Men are not attracted to qualities in women that they consider to be masculine.  Whereas women do not view those qualities as masculine – they view them as POWERFUL.  And women want to be powerful….they just want their men to be more powerful (or at least equally powerful).

    3. 395.3

      Sophia, I agree on some levels, but not on all. True, there is nothing wrong with wanting the best man we can get. And if that means him bringing the same things to the table as we do, so be it. But requiring it is another thing altogether. Settling never made anyone very happy, but neither has unrealistic expectations. If you aren’t finding men who bring the same things to the table, who are interested in you, or who are also attractive, good in bed, etc…well, maybe you need to rethink what actually makes you happy. Often, if we look back at men we dated, we can see that many of them possessed many of the things we wanted, which is why we dated them, but a lot of them turned out to be jerks, or worse. So do those things really make us happy? Maybe a man with different qualities is who will make us happy. I read an interesting fact recently. Dolly Parton was married to a simple blue collar type of guy, and she is happy. They have been married for 45 years and she says they are proud of their marriage. He owns an asphalt business. She certainly out earns him by millions of dollars. And, I read somewhere that he was not always an owner, but a driver for the business, initially. Probably Dolly’s money that helped him buy it out maybe?

      We women wanted to have the same rights as men to education and employment opportunities. Well, men have, and still do marry women who do not bring the same thing to the table. Why is that so important to us women? Especially wealthy CEO types? Couldn’t a man who is not her equal in the business world be exactly what she needs? He would be home when she gets in late. Instead of him leaving town, or not having time for her because he is pressed for time, trying to meet some critical deadline, he would be home, and have time for her when she gets home from a conference.

      I think men would totally understand you wanting a man who has the same, if you find him, I think men are put off by the fact that high achieving women insist on high achieving men, while men do not insist on high achieving women. To them, when talking about equality, doesn’t sit right.

      I have learned not to insist on high achievers, for reasons I listed above, but also many other reasons. Most high achieving men I’ve known were also jerks. Being a high achiever seems to go along with that. Oh, I know, not all high achievers are jerks, and I would certainly not disqualify a man for being a high achiever. I simply value different qualities in a man over his being a high achiever.

      So let’s get to why this is so important for men to at least bring the same things to the table. It’s simple, we women are selfish whether we want to admit it or not. If a man brings the same, or nearly the same money to the table, we don’t take the hit to our finances that men do when they marry down. It bothers us more than we admit when we are the ones paying the majority of the bills, vacations, Christmas presents, etc… Dare I say it? When it comes to this aspect, most of us are still traditionalists. The man is still supposed to bring home the bacon. Oh yeah, and fry it half the time. haha

      I look back at the many men i knew in my childhood, men who made a lot of money, and those that did not, and most of them were more than generous with the money they had. For most of them, taking care of people with the money they earned made them feel like a better man. That’s what a man did. He earned the money, brought home the bacon, and provided for those he loved. For as much as we claim to want to be equal, we women do not feel that same thing, except for children. But for the man in our lives? No, we certainly do not get the same pleasure providing for our man the way men do providing for his woman. That’s why we want a man who brings the same, or more to the table than we do.

      So let me get this straight. We women want a man who younger than us, looks fantastic, is a great lover, is nurturing and kind, is our equal or better in education and career/earnings, etc..etc… Well, be prepared to be disappointed, unless you are just looking for short term relationships. Men like that are rare, and those who have every last one of those qualities plus the other qualities we want in a man, know they are rare. How could they not with the way all of the top shelf, 2nd shelf and 3rd shelf women make it obvious by their interest? So these guys have their choice, if they are interested in long term, and when they do decide on long term, they usually choose a woman their age or younger, and don’t require her to be a high achiever. She may be, but he doesn’t require that.

  6. 396

    I’m with the doctor. He is being very kind actually. We are talking about relationships not applying for jobs. Basically the doctor is saying hey you look OK but your over valuing yourself in the relationship market and your in disagreement of some good very direct feedback. People always over value what they have whether it be themselves or things they possess and people naturally want what they cannot have.

    Women have been led to believe all this education and empowerment has made them more attractive and more desirable in their minds which largely is a lie and some good marketing. Evolution dictates Women want the most powerful, confident, successful, and attractive man they can attract. Problem here is you have women who possess more masculine traits than the average dating pool and they wonder why they aren’t attracted to anyone. We have not evolved past our primitive biology in terms of pair bonding.

    What rational person would think holding off on a college fueled professional life quest would make them more attractive? No one. It’s a reinforced social norm.

  7. 397

    That guy running car wash probably makes more money than you fiona…

  8. 398

    Thanks, Evan, for your words of advice! I was initially shocked as a woman to read what you were saying, but by the end of the article, I see what you mean.  What I’ve taken away in a nutshell is that:  All “educated” people are not “broad-minded”, and vice versa. So, look beyond the titles, and look at the person/man instead.  

  9. 399

    No, this article is wrong. Women who want to date ANY man that makes more than she does is instantly labeled a gold digger.

  10. 400

    I disagree. If a woman meets a man who just happens to make more than her, and she wants to date him, that is one thing. But, if a woman will only date men who make more than she does, I have news for her, and that is that she really is a gold digger.

    I’ve heard a few other women say, “I know my worth.” They were speaking about dating, or not dating a man based on his income. I see no difference between them and prostitutes. It’s sad that women like that deem men worthy or not worthy based on income. It’s a selfish attitude, and not one rooted in love.

    I recently ran across a video by a very young woman who does the sugar daddy thing, and this girl was trying to convince the audience that this is not prostitution. She insisted that it was no different than having a boyfriend who bought you nice things, and gave you money when you needed it. I corrected her in that she was giving him sex based on one thing and one thing only, and that was the money and gifts he was giving her. So that is prostitution. If your worth is measured in money and material things, you are a prostitute. And I would add that if a woman thinks that it is no different than a girlfriend, then she is the kind of woman men are terrified of ending up with.

    Let me ask you something. What would you do if a man pulled out a tape measure, took your measurements, and then said, “OK, your measurements will do. We can date, and maybe get married.” Would you date him? I know I wouldn’t. That would be the last he would see of me. Even if I measured up, what if that changed after we were married? Wouldn’t that worry you? It would bother me. OK, so the same goes for me and incomes. What if he loses his ability to work? Would you leave because you can no longer live in the 8,000 sqft house in the gated community and now have to live in the 2,000 home in a normal community? Would you leave when you had to trade in your Lexus or BMW for a Chevy?

  11. 401

    Basically Fiona the professional Doctor guy was telling you he didn’t want to be with you because you were just attracted to him being a professional not to him . Whereas the laundry guy/s you were attracted to as a person you were just dismissing them because of their job, they were not professionals. He was trying to tell you that this I’d stupid and you should give them a try, he was trying to be nice to you telling you this as you would ultimately not be happy with him. The concept of constantly applying tick boxes can be a never ending process, that will never be fulfilled and only lead to unhappiness, give it up.

  12. 402

    I am a female lawyer in my mid 30’s. I took your advice many many times and have dated men with no college education who worked minimum wage jobs, but had other attributes that I really liked. I have a doctorate degree but I grew up poor and so I have a lot of things in common with people that are not as you say of my social stature. It does not work and here is why. The big difference you miss is that women are not intimidated by a man’s social status, job earning ability, fame fortune. In fact women are taught to be drawn to men that are of higher social statute because of the old idea that men are to be the providers. But with men it is not the same. The men who were significantly below my status felt extremely insecure, they were constantly trying to compete with me in some way because they felt inferior to me. Simple by being me. I was asked not to talk about my job too much, not to talk about money ever (even in long term relationships), and many of this men did nothing but cut me down to make themselves feel better. So no, the answer is not that men are willing to date with abandon and are not as picky. The answer is that men are in fact picky in that they need to feel superior in the relationship. While a college degree versus a doctorate would likely be fine. A doctorate versus a minimum wage job does not work. This is why there are so many single professional women, and professional men of their statute are married to uneducated women etc. I tested this many times at speed dating. I look the same by I change my career to secretary instead of my actual profession. 100% of the time I received double if not triple the amount of men wanting to see me again.

    1. 402.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Lisa: in fact, professional women are considerably more likely to be married.

      “New research by the sociologist Leslie McCall reveals that while marriage rates have fallen for most women since 1980, those for the highest earning women have increased, to 64 percent in 2010 from 58 percent in 1980. Women in the top 15 percent of earners are now more likely to be married than their lower-earning counterparts.”

      So there’s that.

    2. 402.2
      Karl R

      Lisa said:
      “While a college degree versus a doctorate would likely be fine. A doctorate versus a minimum wage job does not work.”

      Most advice of Evan’s (and most advice given by anyone else) works far better in moderation than in the extreme.

      If your doctor recommends you get more sleep, you’ll probably benefit by making sure you get a full eight hours per night. If you try for 14 hours per night, you’ll probably have some consequences.

      If a doctor advises that you cut calories, and you switch to a 500 calorie per day diet, you will probably suffer some unfortunate consequences.

      If Evan recommends that you (in your mid 30s) expand the age range of men that you’re willing to date, then he probably means men in their mid 40s and late 20s. His advice will probably backfire if you start dating 18 year olds and 80 year olds.

      If Evan recommends that you consider men who earn less than you, then you may want to consider men who earn half or two thirds what you do. That will probably produce far better results than men who have no income, or the minimum wage earners.

      If Evan recommends that you consider men who have less education, then you’ll probably do far better with the men who have BAs or BSs, rather than the men who dropped out of high school.

      Lisa said:
      “The men who were significantly below my status felt extremely insecure, they were constantly trying to compete with me in some way because they felt inferior to me.”

      Some men will be like that. Others won’t. I’m one of the men who doesn’t see a PhD or a J.D. as intimidating. My father has a PhD. I am quite well aware that a PhD means that you’re extremely knowledgeable in an extremely narrow field.

      It’s quite likely that you out earn me. You didn’t mention whether you’re an associate or a partner, and you didn’t mention your area of specialty. If you’re in corporate, bankruptcy or IP law, then you almost certainly out earn me (given your age), even if you’re an associate.

      I don’t have a degree, but I see PhDs and lawyers as my peers. I expect them to treat me as a peer. (Obviously, we each have our own niche where we have more knowledge.) And in my line of work, that means that if I pass the lead partner a note during the middle of a trial, I expect the lawyer to read the question (as written) to the witness … even if the lawyer doesn’t know what the answer is going to be.

      And I’ve had lead partners do exactly that.

      I am an anomaly. But there are a number of other men who never completed college (such as a number of entrepreneurs) who wouldn’t be intimidated by your success.

      Lisa said:
      “I look the same by I change my career to secretary instead of my actual profession. 100% of the time I received double if not triple the amount of men wanting to see me again.”

      So what? During the time I was on Match.com, my income went up two of their income brackets (my income almost doubled). Each time I went up a bracket, the number of “matches” I got tripled. Based on that observation, I would say that income matters less to men than it does to women.

      You’re not scaring one third of the men off. If I was on Match, I could scare off that many women just by cutting my salary by $5,000.

  13. 403

    Career women want the best, and expect the best since many of them these days are very high maintenance. The women of today are very spoiled, and they should be very thankful that they Didn’t have to struggle like the women did years ago along with their men.

  14. 404

    Find a guy who’s on the same intellectual plane as yourself
     marrying a man who doesn’t share the same level of interests is a mistake. You would only become lonely and isolated. There is nothing wrong with being picky.

  15. 405
    Christine J Sojka


  16. 406

    I date who I want. There aren’t many men worth dating based on character and physical attractiveness. I would rather be alone than to settle for someone I’m not attracted to either in personality or appearance. If he can’t hold a conversation, be witty and informed, then he is boring. If we have nothing in common, then why would I consider wasting time with him?  If he gets offended that I don’t find him attractive, then he needs to become more realistic; not every woman he finds physically attractive will find him attractive and vice versa, and in my experience – men tend to have an over-exaggerated opinion of their own attractiveness.  If he can’t afford to buy his own groceries, he needs to not come sniffing around my refrigerator uninvited and get a better job. If he has no manners and hasn’t the slightest idea of what manners are then he’s not worth my time. 
    It’s not about income, education or wealth…it’s the reflection of a man’s character and mutual attraction that determines if I date a man or not. I have a degree – I can fix my own toilet, I can build houses, I can pour concrete, I can change my own tire, I can fix my own lawnmower, I can build my own deck.  I don’t need a man to do these things for me…therefor a man must have more than just basic blue collar skills to make me want to have him in my life.  He needs to be a charming, good, intelligent, attractive man to pique my interest – otherwise he’s just another obligation whose ego I have to stroke and no intelligent woman has time for that. 

  17. 407

    With so many high maintenance women out there nowadays always looking for money, i seriously doubt that.

  18. 408

    I live in the Deep South so things may be different here. If you date a man below your education and hobbies I have personally found this to be disaster. If a man is uneducated, believes in strict gender roles and has no belief in science, I can guarantee that we will not be a match.

  19. 409

    One of the big problems is that men are less educated in the overall population. Thanks to decades of feminism and emphasis on improving girls education and hiring preferences in the workplace, women have made great strides – they now outnumber men in college by nearly two to one, and the disparity grows every year. This means that the pool of highly educated women is growing while the pool of highly educated men is shrinking.

    Couple that with the fact that women in general refuse to “date down” (literally the very sentiment the writer, Fiona, is expressing here) and that means there are a larger and larger pool of highly educated women seeking to date a shrinking pool of men that meet their standards.

    Not only does this mean a problem for the dating scene for women (with the aforementioned checklists), but it’s likely a bad sign for our society in the long-run. This unending recession and high unemployment (disproportionately of men) is just the first rumblings of this problem.

  20. 410

    Well, if men expect us to be thin and beautiful then they need to bring something to the table too. Why should we have to settle? You want us thin. We want you rich!!

  21. 411

    So woman should settle down with whatever is given to her, even if it make her unhappy, but man can expext woman to be as he wants her to be(tall/supermodel/insert another word)?
    Why do men aren’t told “maybe date that little overweight girl, who asked you for coffiee, she might be cute and funny”?
    Mr.Evan, you know it shouldn’t work like those, right? And telling people this is how it should be is just…sad?

    1. 411.1
      Karmic Equation

      Nope. She walks away from the guy who can’t make her happy.

      You’re in charge of your love life.

      Don’t accept men who can’t make you happy. Don’t try to change a guy.

      Your power is to LEAVE him if you cannot accept him as he is.

      Really simple concept.

      1. 411.1.1

        Exactly. This was the first thought I had when I read that comment. So many times I see other women run for the “victim” high ground, even when it isn’t true. The rules here are the same for both men and women. The ugly truth is that if you are having a hard time trying to find somebody to have a LTR with, you are most likely over-inflating your actual value in your own mind. Like the fat round peasant girl who refuses to settle for anyone but Prince Charming. Would that be a Cinderella Complex? Believing that one day, some perfect man is going to come along and make all your dreams come true?

        Both men and women have to pay the consequences for doing this. If you refuse to “settle,” and I put it in quotes for a reason, then you must accept the reality that you may end up alone. Both men and women have a choice. Pick from among the people who actually want you, or accept the possibility that you will most likely never find somebody.

        I don’t judge those who look around and decide there is nothing available to them that they want, and thus walk away. There is nothing wrong with being alone. Being alone has its pros and cons, and being with somebody has its pros and cons. If you are happier being alone, then there is nothing wrong with that.

    2. 411.2

      “Settling” in this context means you deciding all on your own that who is actually available, and interested, could make you happy. You decide that you could be happy without a Porsche, or with a stepchild, or whatever.

      In my circle of friends, men actually have suggested to each other “what about that overweight girl”. I personally did marry a chubby girl who was cute and funny. I settled, and I’m not talking about her appearance. I’m glad I did. My friends also settled. But … I’ve also witnessed 2 women practically high-five each other when one of them rejected a guy over height or something silly.

  22. 412
    Erik V

    I did not read all the comments but I did read the article and some of the comments.

    I doubt these guys are considered unattractive because they have “low level” jobs but that they are perceived as unattractive because they did present and define themselves with this “low level” job.

    If they are defined by their (low level) job then clearly it would be difficult to find a match wiht a highly educated woman but that’s their choice. A quality man who – for whatever reason – has such a low level job would and should define himselves otherwise, maybe with an interesting hobby, …

  23. 413

    I have realised that the career of a man is not so important as other factors. A man who doesn’t mind getting his hands dirty would be great – I grew up in a household where the only thing my dad or brothers would lift is a pen.

    Maybe Evans and the other men are underestimating the pressure professional women feel to have their husbands fit a mould and ‘fit-in’ in general.

    I would be at peace with any type of husband who makes me happy if we can maintain a very private relationship.

    Have you observed that public figures like movie stars who marry outside the industry and keep their private lives private tend to have the longest marriages?

    We women are judged and still valued by the partner we are able to attract. So I think that this fact may be an impediment in the way of some women just relaxing and enjoying a man who can make them happy.

    The moment of freedom comes when you realise that he doesn’t have to ‘fit-in’ with your life. Have a ‘private’ marriage. So go ahead and marry a factory worker, it should be nobody’s business but your own and he should realise that you have your life that he is not a part of and you should respect his life as well. If he wants you to, be happy to play host to his friends.

    If you want intellectual conversations related to your profession, talk to your college mates or colleagues.

    The only problem occurs when a man insists that he must be more involved in your life and I have dated those. I would be happy to find one who really does not care what I do with my time when we are not together.

    I know of some relationships like that and they seem to work so well.

    1. 413.1

      Freedom comes when you no longer care what others think.  The pressure you feel is self imposed.  I no longer care what others think, because caring what they think has never made my life better, only worse.  Find a good man, and care only what he thinks.  No need to hide him in the closet.  Your true friends will accept him just for being a good man.  Those who don’t accept him, aren’t your friends, so why would you care what they think?

      1. 413.1.1

        Maybe you misunderstand.  I was not talking about myself. If you are interested in my personal viewpoint – I prefer not to have my man involved in every sphere of my life, it does not matter who he is. Things are a lot simpler that way. I won’t always have to fill gaps where my colleagues or friends may mention something that I hadn’t thought about discussing with him. I had my first boyfriend when I was in University and he was a Medical Doctor in a public hospital. Out of all the guys I dated, he is the one that bugged me the most, by wanting to be involved in everything I did. He worked shift so was very free during the days.

    2. 413.2

      Women are judged and still valued by the partner we are able to attract”   This is absolutely the the truth and the partner is generally judged on his social status rather than on whether or not he’s actually able to create a happy partnership with his wife.   Then again, I also believe that men are also judged (although slightly less so) on the woman he is able to attract.  A successful guy is supposed to have a hot babe on his arm… if not, ‘what’s wrong with him?’

      1. 413.2.1

        You can choose to worry about what others think, or you can ignore what others think.  We can’t claim to be strong independent women, but then claim that it isn’t our fault because we are caving to the expectations of others.

  24. 414
    Bob Freund

    All very interesting. A number of years ago I participated in a three year course , of personal development . In the class we had 28 women and 2 men, there were often comments about what the woman was looking for in a man. Many time as they went on with the wish list I thought to myself, mmmm they are really describing 5 men.

  25. 415

    I wish some of the men Fiona described would be interested in me. I have been extremely unpopular with men all my life. I did not even have one date in high school. Only a handful of times in my life has a man expressed interest in me, and most of them were already married to someone else. I’m now in my 50s. I’m also much taller than the average guy. I have 3 degrees including a professional degree. In terms of physical appearance I’m only average at best. I’d be pretty happy if a successful man running his own “manual labor” business was interested in me! Problem is, they are intimidated and turned off by my height/education (and I have been told that by guys online and at dating events). I’m not good looking enough to offset that. And now that I’m over 50? My future in dating/marriage is very bleak indeed. It’s very discouraging to know that I’ve been deprived of the chance to have a full life for reasons that are largely out of my control.

    Fiona seems pretty arrogant to me.

    1. 415.1

      This is the sad reality of life.  We never appreciate what we have until we no longer have it.  So many men and women who are so picky that they can’t find somebody to truly give their all to.  But if they were to suddenly lose their good looks, or money, and suddenly nobody wanted them, they would understand how much they had.


      I can see a good feel good movie having this theme.  A man or woman totally dismisses a person that would love them for the rest of their life.  Then they are in an accident and are no longer beautiful.  Their social life becomes a barren desert, and then they run into that person, and suddenly, they realize how great it would be for that person to still want them.  But poetic justice would be that the other person no longer wants him/her.

  26. 416

    I like and concur with much of your opinions on men, love, relationships, and the mistakes women make, however, On this statement,  your reaching way above your head, and are not very realistic in this opinion – “Which is why men can date ANYONE – regardless of education, income, and height – while many women can only date 1 in 1000 men who are 6 feet tall, with a masters degree and a $200,000 income.” Not true. If you look at various scenarios, even in the entertainment industry, you see very young, beautiful, attractive, women with older, balder, rotound men quite frequently. Catherine Zeta Jones is almost 10 years younger than Michael Douglas. I see this quite often in real life. I also see in the black community women who have degree’s, are educated, and making close to or at six figures dating men with no degree, barely a hs diploma, sometimes men in or just out of jail, men making minimum wage, etc etc etc.

    I think if anything, women are more likely to settle for just about anything in the looks department, because at the end of the day, women just want a loving husband, a great marriage and children. Women are more likely to choose a mate Not based on looks, but based on how he treats her than men.

    Men are notorious for choosing women for the most idiotic reasons. She pretty, but she’s a bit**, she’s got a fat azz, pretty face, gorgeous body, but she’s lazy as hell and expects the man to do Everything, and pay for Everything, and he does it because men can make idiotic decisions, and do things for women and choose them for all the wrong reasons.

    I suggest that you study people culturally a little more, and globally.

    Love your blog and your advice for the most part.





  27. 417

    Viewing this thread, it seems that some are just not understanding what has been said by OP. On the other hand, some understand it fully.

    To those responding with “but men only go after tall/sexy/hot/model types” yes, maybe most do. This happens because they too have a checklist. Their initial checklist consists mainly of physical attraction. And will pursue that lavish looking women over the cretin. However, when it comes to level of education and income, there is flexibility to their standards.

    OP is not suggesting (to females) to go out and give that obese schlub, High School dropout a chance to be the love of your life. You ultimately control the “checklist” you set. You too can only go after men that you are physically attracted to. Just don’t write him off too fast if you find out he is not well educated.

    Ultimately, finding ‘the one’ takes time. Regardless if you are male or female. When that ONE comes around (who is right for you, and you right for him) you’ll both know. Then it just comes down to living your lives and making the best of it.

  28. 418


    it’s better to be alone than badly accompanied. Don’t settle for someone you find mediocre intellectually. Much of your quality time will depend on shared interests. It won’t work in the long run…. Sooner or later, you’ll feel the distance in time and space. Wait for the right man…. Think Howard Roark.


  29. 419

    It’s not about earning more money than a man, it’s about culture, which means being interested in reading books, going to the theater, traveling to art cities, having meaningful conversations not just commenting what the neighbors do, to make a few examples. Uneducated men just don’t like these things. They prefer sitting in front of the television watching baseball and get horrified if you talk about going to a vernissage. What has an educated woman in common with such a man? And having spent years of her life to cultivate herself (as well as money perhaps) why shouldn’t she recognize her value for this and wanting her value recognized not only for her body? What does humility have to do with that? What has being snobbish have to do with that? These are the words that uneducated men may use, just to make a woman feel bad about herself and also because they don’t value and understand culture. Educated men do appreciate educated women, if only because they don’t make them look like fools in public for being in these women’s company.

  30. 420

    I agree that women have higher standards than men in most categories but, don’t act like men don’t do the same thing with one category in particular: Looks.

    Men can be excessively unrealistic and shallow about this every bit as much as women can be about smarter, richer, taller, etc.

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