Why Are Women Expected to Date Men With a Lower Educational Level?

Why Are Women Expected to Date Men With a Lower Educational Level?

Dear Evan,

I was at a speed dating event last night for the second time. Just like the first time, it was full of smart, pretty, successful women in their thirties and forties and men of similar ages with manual labor jobs (and a few running their own manual labor businesses) but no men of equivalent professional or educational status except for one doctor. Why he was there, I do not know, as he made it clear that he was not really looking to date anyone. He did however buy me a drink in the bar afterwards and asked me what I thought of the event. I said I would be unlikely to go again because I have nothing in common to talk about with the men that I have met at these events.

He proceeded to give me a lecture as to why I shouldn’t automatically dismiss dating the two guys who were responsible for service washes in the launderette as they may be perfectly nice people and that career women in their thirties get what they deserve if they don’t. I am just wondering how many other men think like this? For me, it seems plain common sense that, while professional women with masters degrees may be compatible with men in less successful professions, the guy that left school with no qualifications to work in the launderette is highly unlikely to be a good fit.

It is not the first time that I have come across the attitude that career women deserve to be alone if they don’t want to date men without any education, or men a generation older, or the obese. I am just wondering how many men really think like this.



It doesn’t matter how many men think like this.

Just like KC’s email a few weeks ago about how she receives emails from disappointing men she meets online, you’re illustrating an amusing concern with men’s preferences in women.

Men do what they want. They don’t do what you want.

My answer to you is largely the same as my answer to her.

Men do what they want. They don’t do what you want.

If he is a dishwasher and he finds you pretty, he’s going to ask you out.

If you don’t go out with him because you intimate that you’re “above” him on the dating food chain, it’s predictable that he might lash out at you.

You may be technically correct that he’s not of your social station, but that’s of no concern to the man you’ve just insulted to his face.

Literally, the ONLY thing he can do when you tell him that you have nothing in common (without getting to know him) is tell you that you’re wrong for judging people and that this attitude may come back to haunt you.

Women tend to adhere more to their checklists, which usually call for a man who is just like you, but better. And without your flaws.

He’s right about that. This is one of the big blind spots that women have in dating.

Allow me to explain.

You painted a black and white world, Fiona. It wasn’t that he was less educated than you. It’s that he was a laundry operator. It’s not that a man is older than you, it’s that he’s a generation older than you. It’s not that he’s a few pounds overweight, it’s that he’s obese. All of your examples are extreme, but not all men are extreme examples of anything.

So, to be crystal clear: no one (besides the fat, stupid and elderly) is saying that you have to date the fat, stupid, or elderly.

Got it? Good.

How do I find a man with traits I desireWhat I am saying – and what these men are inartfully suggesting as well – is that you don’t marry a list of traits. You marry a human being. And if you never think outside the box, you may well find yourself standing alone at the end of the dance.

The reason that I call this a blind spot for women is because women tend to adhere more to their checklists, which usually call for a man who is just like you, but better. And without your flaws.

Taller. Richer. Smarter. Funnier. Saner. Sexier.

Alas, men don’t care if you’re taller, richer, smarter, or funnier.

We just want you to think that we’re amazing.

Which is why men can date ANYONE – regardless of education, income, and height – while many women can only date 1 in 1000 men who are 6 feet tall, with a masters degree and a $200,000 income.

So are some men unrealistic in thinking that they deserve a chance with you?

Yes, they are.

Are they also correct in pointing out that they are open to a lot more women than you are open to men, and this may hinder your ability to find lasting love?

Yes, they are.

To your original question, no one is saying (apart from the jilted men) that you deserve to be alone. But I would be remiss if I didn’t pull out the nugget of wisdom from the flawed logic of the laundry operator.

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  1. 31

    Goldei & Ileana
    Not to go too off-topic, but I’m curious: Can either of you please tell me what the big deal about dating an immigrant is?

  2. 32

    I think the stumbling point for many of us, especially in online dating, is what is being too choosy and what is selecting out what you simply don’t find attractive?  Sometimes I get so caught up in ‘not being picky’ that I look at the men who message me online and think ‘Really?  Do I have to correspond with all of them?’.  Where do you draw the line?  Going out with men ‘just ’cause’ is when online dating gets old and frustrating really darn fast.  I’m sure that men have a much easier time picking which women to write too without the social guilt of being acused of being too picky.  Let’s face it, anyone who has married for love has done so because they picked one person above others. 

  3. 33

    Like Fiona, I’m also an attorney. If it happens that I’m dating another attorney, my position would be “I’m dating so-and-so, who happens to be an attorney.” My take would be the same if my significant other (assuming I had one, of course…LOL) were an accountant, an artist, a receptionist, a corporate executive, and so on.

    The point is, at least for me, is that one’s occupation is one part of the person that I would be dating. I would be looking to choose the person, not their job.

    Hope my three cents helps here.    

  4. 34

    “Why are women expected to date men with a lower educational level?”
    They are not expected to, but they must to if they hold any degree above a Bachelor’s. That’s the logical consequence of:
    1. equal opportunity of education for both genders, and the increase in number of women getting a higher education compared to men,
    2. not enough single men with higher degrees available in the 35+ dating pool.
    Finding a marriage-minded man who is also able to build and nurture a marriage is already difficult enough to not complicate things further with degrees, job titles, and income level requirements.
    The best time for a woman to enter a marriage with a peer in terms of degree is while in the process of getting that advanced degree herself. After graduation, marriage-minded men with those rare advanced degrees are married or about to be, therefore older single women MUST change their expectations and requirements if they do want to partner up. It does not make sense to keep 28-year-old-style requirements while dating in one’s late thirties. When older, it’s time to be extremely flexible with the checklist while much more purposeful with the courtship process and timeline.

  5. 35

    be flexible in the stuff that doesn’t matter. For me that would be how he dresses, whether he has hair, his job, education, interests, politics (and no that doesnt equal date a nazi) , income, popularity.
    stick to what does matter. For me it would be his religion, values, how he treats people, how he treats me.
    the problem with the list is that as you excitedly tick off job, height, whatever, you can miss some serious red flags. And no I’m not saying poor fat stupid people are nicer. It’s that you may be focusing on the wrong things.
    and be careful of seductive charming men. Making you feel good (temporarily ) is not the same as being a good person.
    what is about these men that attract you. They sound like twits to me.

  6. 36

    Oh Jennifer I don’t “feel” like I’m getting over anything on anyone I’m just pointing out how irrelevant it all really is. You either like and are attracted to someone or your not, assuming you actually meet them(like Fiona did at her speed Dating). It’s got nothing to do with degree’s. Honesty and integrity???….now that’s a different story.

  7. 37

    Mickey I would have thought that most women would see you as a catch so long as you treat them well. Where are you going wrong? Unless you are chasing supermodels, I don’t get it. 

  8. 38

    I think one thing underlying the original question was that successful women seem to think that the currency of dating = money, degrees, job, and other worldly accomplishments.  We tend to look for those things in guys; and we typically think that those same traits are what should make us desirable as well.  However, what I have learned from Evan is that we are totally wrong about this!  The currency of dating is actually = making the other person feel good, happy, and cared for etc.  Successful guys have already figured this out; it is successful women who have a hard time accepting this reality (I know I did!).  But, if you can shift your attention to the quality of your relationship (rather than the characteristics of your man), you can choose a relationship that will make you much happier. I mean, who doesn’t want to be with someone who makes you feel good, happy, and cared for?  That’s the best!

  9. 39

    Fiona: The problem is that if many women see me as a catch, I haven’t heard about it lately. But as I said previously, admittedly, I’m also a little too jaded to care about it now.

  10. 40

    @Ruby #34: “Not to go too off-topic, but I’m curious: Can either of you please tell me what the big deal about dating an immigrant is?”
    My two cents, being also a Europeean immigrant… Dating an immigrant is no big deal. Plenty of men love how exotic it feels to have sex with an attractive woman who speaks English with an accent. Especially when it’s French : ) Marrying an immigrant is not for everyone though. Possible cultural differences, differently-sounding English over the long-term, long/expensive flights to visit family abroad, etc are all inconveniences to some people. Others are excited about the open-mindedness that such experience entails, the incredible language skills, the option of emigrating to Europe, etc.
    I have not found my background being a big issue in general given everything I bring to the relationship table, but I certainly have had to sort out the men who would have intended to use me to get their exotic notch on their bed post. Making sure that – on top of being marriage-minded – they would see my background as another positive for the long-term was key in moving forward with the right man.

  11. 41

    I don’t think a man needs to hold a degree in order for me to date him, however, in my generation you really have had to go to college to get a middle-class job. My father did not, he worked in a factory and made a decent living. Now a high school diploma usually means minimum wage or close to it. I am not so romantic that I believe the nicest, kindest man would be a great husband if there was always a financial struggle and I chose to work for non-profits so although not low-wage I certainly don’t make the kind of money to be a bread winner.

    So if I met an amazing union plumber I would consider him but having grown up with those men, I know most of them married at 24 and already have 4 kids in my neck of the woods, so they are less available than their well-educated counterparts.  

  12. 42

    Fiona, I think many of us here really do feel for (& with!) you.  (Okay… so there’s no such thing as to “feel with you” but you know what I mean, right?)  I love this topic; many of my girlfriends, in a variety of countries, are facing the same challenges.
    And, I must add, that doctor sounds like a total ass.  He was probably a nerd who couldn’t get dates through college and his 20s and now that he’s finally an MD with ladies throwing themselves at him, he wants to kick the kind of attractive, bright women he feels might have rejected him in his youth.  Imagine if someone had said to him, well if you don’t give the over-weight, gnarly-toothed women a shot, you get what you deserve!  He’d have been insulted and cross, no doubt.
    I want to share some random thoughts based on your letter, comments and previous posts.  
    1. Keep dating.  You don’t have to go out with guys who utterly repel you but do accept the occasional coffee and dinner invitations with men who mightn’t seem like Mr Right right off the bat but at least make interesting-enough conversation, have a nice smile and seem kind.  I maintain that being a good date is a skill that improves with practice and there’s an ease and comfort that we can lose when we sit out of the game, waiting for a date with someone close to an ideal. 
    2. Educated or reasonably high-earning is easier to come by than educated and high-earning.  I know plenty of contractors who earn 6-figures (US$) and plenty of PhDs who don’t.   The dream is to have both,  but consider which is truly more important to you.   Even then, you might well not even find a mate who fulfills it. And remember: high-earning people can fritter away all their money and there are an awful lot of educated fools.
    3. I fell in love with several sweet guys who were kind and marriage-oriented but who didn’t have much money.  One trouble with these relationships was that these lovely men slowly became comfortable living at my standard and expecting that I should provide it for them.  The gratitude of  Wow, I cannot believe how sweet you are to take me on a beach vacation! eventually became This room doesn’t even have an ocean view and Florida is tackier than California and next time we should not consider staying anywhere that isn’t a 5-star hotel.  You can imagine how much I enjoyed that!
    And yet, isn’t this what many women have done to men through the years and, in different ways, continue to do?  Rather than be grateful when a man can provide us with nice things, we demand it.  One of the reasons some of my high-earning guy friends go for relatively uneducated, low-income women is that they imagine that they will be delighted to live at a certain level that he can afford rather than expect it.  (Of course, I remind my guy friends that entitlement knows no socio-educational boundaries!  But for some reason, when they see a woman who can already buy her own house — rightly or wrongly — they believe that she won’t be as touched as the girl who lives in a basement studio rental flat when he can provide a nice home for their family). 
    We women with our own money have to realise we’re fighting this negative stereotype.  Fiona, when you mention wanting to be able to take time off work to stay home with a child/children while not taking any kind of dip in lifestyle, realise that some men will interpret that as entitled, I deserve talk.  
    3.  I have a friend with an advanced degree (earning mid 5-figure salary as an associate professor) who wanted to marry a good guy who could afford to let her stay home with the kids.  She eventually did, but she was 43; by then it was too late for her to have biological children and he doesn’t want to adopt.
    I have 2 other friends who wouldn’t settle for guys who they didn’t find appealing  and went the sperm bank route; one is pregnant and the other has a gorgeous 2 year-old.
    Both of these options are great in my books and show that sometimes you want to be married-with-kids but can be overjoyed with one or the other.   Try to remain flexible both in looking for a mate and also what other options exist “out there” for bright, capable women.   No one owes us anything but we deserve to find ways to make ourselves happy.

    1. 42.1


      You touched on a great point about the “haven’t we done this to men all these years”. Its interesting because most men haven’t had the standards that women have when it comes to picking a mate. When they are the ones that have the job, money, and education – they look for the mate that can be domestic and makes them feel good.

      As one of my female colleagues put one time “we have become the men that our moms wanted to marry”. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but why not change your objective for the mate. If you are the one with the advanced degree/money/etc why not look for someone that makes you feel good/is attractive.

      I just don’t understand why a person would try to stick to the same ideals that existed before the gender gap started closing.

    2. 42.2


      Damn lady you NAILED it!

      “. . .that doctor sounds like a total ass.  He was probably a nerd who couldn’t get dates through college and his 20s and now that he’s finally an MD with ladies throwing themselves at him, he wants to kick the kind of attractive, bright women he feels might have rejected him in his youth.”

      And yet, isn’t this what many women have done to men through the years and, in different ways, continue to do?  Rather than be grateful when a man can provide us with nice things, we demand it.

      Reminds me how one of the guys in my medical school class (a total sweetheart of a guy BTW) told me how upsetting it was that girls who would have ignored him a year before would now aggressively hit on him.  I really feel for some of these guys. How horrible to wonder if the person you’re dating is interested in you as a person, or the lifestyle your job can provide them.  While medical school did nothing for my dating life, in the way of more men being interested in me, at least I know the ones that come around are into me and not my job.

      As for the doctor Fiona had a run in with, he was a judgmental ass.  And Fiona had better manners than him.  He apparently wasn’t interested in any of the women there, yet Fiona didn’t tell him he was too picky and should consider dating women he didn’t find attractive.

      Some of my male colleagues (just a few, thank goodness) have a strange resentment towards, and are awkward around the female docs, and other women in “high” places, like the hospital attorneys and administrators.  They do look for any opportunity to be a jerk.  I have no idea where this comes from;  mommy issues; feeling their role in society has been usurped;  just being nasty people in general?  I and the other women usually just try to not engage in any conversations with them that aren’t strictly about work.  Anyway, a few of them have gotten divorced from their wives (all non-working, little to no career training or education) over the years, and then they just rage about how they were screwed in court and lost “their” house and “their” bank accounts.

      I would tell Fiona though, to choose to look at the obnoxious doc’s “advice” as a gift.  Since it was so harshly delivered, it resonates on a certain level, and you can’t ignore it.  Fiona, I know you said that you could move on your standards little bit, and I wonder what that means.  Would you consider dating an accountant who works from home, a mid-level government employee, or a teacher?  How about an self-employed master carpenter, a police officer, or an artist?  What would you think of a man who owns and manages commercial property, but is twenty years older than you with teenaged kids?  I ask because I know women physicians that are happily married to all those men listed above.  Look at the freedom that your career and the income it brings gives you to choose a man based solely on the criteria that he makes you happy?  And that police officer, who met his ER doctor wife when he brought in a drunk who had a broken arm?  Damn hot!  I’m talking underwear model hot 😉

      Maybe for 6 months you can try something a little different:  Say yes to dates with men that are a little out of your comfort zone.  Keep in mind, it’s just one date at a time, no one is expecting you to marry any one.  See how it goes.  you may be surprised.

  13. 43

    @Ruby #34: “Not to go too off-topic, but I’m curious: Can either of you please tell me what the big deal about dating an immigrant is?”

    I know you didn’t ask me the question but here is my opinion anyway! Dating an immigrant is not a big deal but if you expect the relationship to evolve into marriage, it is a big commitment for some. It means potentially maintaining the traditions of two cultures and some people just aren’t up for that. These things come up even while dating and in my experience there are those who prefer to play it safe and stick with what they know.

  14. 44

    I don’t have any peer-reviewed studies to back up my opinion but I believe much of the desire/need to have a partner with certain attributes is cultural. I’ve known many woman who were raised to believe that husbands are providers and the more he can provide in the way of status and money, the better the catch he is.  I’ve known some women who were told to find a man who makes you happy.  I’ve known many more women who were to to find a doctor or a lawyer.

    The pressure to marry well doesn’t necessarily end as women get older.  I’ve had several women complain that their female friends immediately focus on their dates occupation and income.  As a man, the questions I get tend to focus on attractiveness, age, age of children, and only occasionally occupation.  There is some subtle and not so subtle peer pressure for both men and women to have a trophy partner.  The only distinction being that the criteria is different for a trophy wife than a trophy husband.

    Perhaps some of us just care too much what others will think of our choice rather than searching for what is truly important.  I’m just as guilty as the rest — perhaps I’m just seeking validation when I’m so eager to talk about my date with the 32 year old hottie but rarely mention my dates with the 45 -55 year old ladies.

    The great thing about this blog is it forces a little self analysis — the bad thing is that what I see about myself isn’t always too nice.

  15. 45
    Angela Beasley

    In reference to the blog post and your response I believe you’re totally missing her point.  She (the lady who wrote or emailed you) only made those traits she listed “super specific” to make a point.
    Men also have a checklist, they just aren’t that aware of it.  It goes something like this:  Much younger, submissive, giddy, etc., etc – This is with the exception of professional or more evolved men.  These men are typically already married at around that age range so they aren’t available.  Women who seek careers over marriage instead of careers end up with a choice of what’s leftover from the pool of men who don’t typically have their “crap” together.  
    If women were as picky as men say they are, there would be no stories of women crying over repeatedly being cheated on, domestic violence and the like.  Women really aren’t picky enough and probably put up with Waaaayyyy more than they should just to be in a relationship because its the “thing to do”.  This is why intelligent, professional women have less choices because they realize that they can survive without a relationship and value themselves and their time.
    Every time I speak to a woman who’s been married for over ten years and I hear what she had to go through to maintain that relationship, I cringe.
    No, I’m not a man hater.  I love men and I had a really, really GREAT one in my life at one time.  But I really think the cause of this issue is the fact that career minded women simply realize they have choices and are exercising them, and with choices come consequences and sometimes those consequences may mean being alone a little while longer until you meet another decent human being.

  16. 46

    Fusee #37, well-said! I was trying to articulate the same idea, but did so poorly. 
    @Joe – I do read and hang on Evan’s every word. I just disagreed with the demographic analysis he did on this one. I know how you make a man feel is super important, I also know that a mans tolerance for bad behavior is often proportional to the hotness of the woman who is dishing it out. Men want pretty as much as woman want accomplished. the problem is that pretty wanes after 40 and accomplishment increases. Many men trade up for a younger model at this point, right? No judgments, this is the law of the jungle. 

    I think that it is important to be open-minded, and not exclude anyone based on their education level or income. It’s funny, I have dated rocket scientist turned brain-surgeon, and I have dated Mr. Fix-it. Fix-it was sexy as hell to touch and look at and brain surgeon was incredibly interesting to talk to. In the end, I dated sexy longer even though it was aimless, and I wish I had had enough attraction to brain-surgeon to get the party started. The reality is that having someone you respect and can relate to is what matters.  I think that Fiona in this particular post entertained the conversation with that bitter dude at the event too long. I bet he wasn’t sexy!

  17. 47

    a man does not need a degree to prove that he is intelligent. However, he must be street smart. After giving my recent guy a chance, it was the lack of street smarts and financial responsibility that made me get rid of him. THOSE are the valid reasons to get rid of a guy

  18. 48

    Catherine at 23. Maybe the organisers could not find enough well educated, high achieveing men. so they had to expand their net to include the not so well educated.  Which makes sense seeing that women are more highly represented in higher education. Does it mean men are stupid ? Or maybe smart enough not to want to go to college.

  19. 49

    Intelligence is what matters. Some people aren’t as good at jumping through hoops.

  20. 50

    Education means you’re more educated, not necessarily smarter or more intelligent.

    Intelligence can be measured in MANY ways.


  21. 51

    I wanted to understand better when you said that men are not looking for taller, richer, smarter, or funnier women. All they care is for women to think these men are amazing.
    So my question is: How is this possible if all they look for in a woman are within those characteristics. They love fun, tall and smart women.

    1. 51.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      That’s why I didn’t understand your question, Maria. It’s built on a false premise. Men care about how you make them feel, above all. Qualities that are indicative of how you make him feel are feminine, optimistic, confident, understanding, self-aware, trusting, supportive, easygoing, and playful. Funny is a bonus. Educated is a bonus. Rich is a bonus (and maybe a negative if she has to work many hours to stay rich). Tall is irrelevant.

      And that’s my point: YOU’RE looking for tall, rich and educated. We’re looking for the adjectives I mentioned above. Plus “attractive”, which goes without saying.

      1. 51.1.1

        Evan So why dont mean date the over weight middle age women who will make them feel good? Even if she is a waitress single mother living in a one bedroom apartment? I love the myth that men have NO list. Tall, blonde, younger, educated women dont hurt for dates. I knew a guy who friends made fun of the fact he was dating a waitress. SHE had nothing to offer and they asked why he was dating her (seriously). Let’s be real. YOU believe men have a right to have a list. It is just a natural right of being male. BUT women should be grateful for the fact she has a person who is male in her life. When men loose the list women will loose the list.

        1. RustyLH

          Sounds like your friend needs new friends. I have never even heard of anyone I know going through anything like that. Not one time has anyone I’ve ever known, cared what the woman did for a living. Not care in that manner. And many of the men I’ve known throughout my life married women with little to no college education. Many of the men I know, who make plenty of money, prefer a woman who will not work long hours, preferably not work or work part time. Why? Because it makes life better for him. He doesn’t want to work 50 to 70 hours a week, then come home and share equally all of the household chores. Many people are unhappy and don’t even realize that the reason they are unhappy is because both people work long hours, and now they have to share all of the household chores. Compare that to a man who works the same hours, but comes home to dinner on the table and the majority, if not all of the chores done. He now has time to enjoy the fruits of his labor. He doesn’t come home to his second job. There is less strife in the house do to less arguments over who does what.

          Many more men would love to have a life like that, but if you understand economics, the fact is, with women now in the workforce as much as men, the simple reality is that most men can’t have that kind if life. Where once, for the majority of families, one bread winner was enough to have a nice life, it now takes two bread winners. That’s how economics works. The more money the average person has, the more things will cost.

        2. Liz

          Perfect post. Spot on. I wonder what Rusty is doing on a dating site for women. I thought Evan was giving the advice?

  22. 52

    I have a masters degree and a decent paying job.  While I don’t make it a requirement that a guy has to have a certain degree or earn more than me, I am really big on him having his purpose in life set. Because I have mine set and to me that is more of a common value which is important in a relationship.  I can be with a with one who isn’t quite where he wants to be but knows where he wants to be and is working towards it.  But a lot of men these days are just way too over the place about what they want for themselves in life or plain unhappy with their career, and are doing nothing to change it.  I dropped the laundry list of requirements in my early 20s, including things must have masters or phd. it definitely opened me up to more prospects and made realize that I don’t need certain things from  a guy to be interested in him.

  23. 53

    Many (not all) men who are high education/ high earners are also alpha, type A, and ambitious, list makers who like to check things off lists. I married one such highly educated, ambitious guy and after we married, I realized I was an item on his check list that he had crossed off. He never paid much attention to me after we got married because he had moved on to the next items on the list. At this point in my life, having an attentive, caring, if somewhat less educated guy in a less prestigious career sounds fine to me. i know a couple where the woman is a high powered career gal and her hubby owns a small house painting business, and they seem very compatible and happy. 

  24. 54

    Thanks for the feedback. I will reflect on it. 

  25. 55

    After following advice along EMK’s lines I just had a lovely relationship of about a year with a man in construction who was kind, attentive, attentive to my emotional cues, helpful with housework and children, attuned to my “emotional cues” as EMK would say – I very reluctantly finished the relationsip as he had a very sticky situation going on financially and the loose ends he had with his ex wife and (multiple) children would be pretty much unlivable with for the long term – I’m just glad that I have been able to redraw the paradigm of what I want/expect from a relationship in the future

  26. 56

    @ Ruby #34: Not sure, but I found it scares a lot of people off, at least where I live. Almost every guy is kind of apprehensive at first. I guess they are looking for someone who is exactly like them. I’m guessing that people want you to get the same cultural references, to have had the same experiences growing up, etc. I’m pretty good on the references, mostly because my two teenage sons have lived here almost their whole lives. But there is no way I can ever catch up on past experiences, because, well, I wasn’t here then. Some of them (or their relatives) were also worried that I could be a scammer. Some guys also try to treat you like an exotic, which is quite annoying, but, after hearing what my Asian women friends have to deal with, I guess I shouldn’t complain. 
    I’ve had a lot more success with people who have moved here from other states, and have relocated one or more times in their lives. They are already used to living in different cultures and don’t mind being exposed to another one. I’ve had no luck whatsoever with the guys who were born, raised, and still live in the same area, same city where they went to high school. I never turned people down based on that, it just never worked out. I was too strange to them I guess. One of these guys freaked me out pretty badly when he asked, out of nowhere, in a phone conversation: “So do you like it here in the US or would you rather go back home?” Not proud of my reaction, I told him I had to go, said good-bye and hung up, because I really didn’t know what to say to this.

  27. 57

    I think deep down we all really really want the total package.  However, I think as we become more mature, we realize there is no real prince charming….at least not that as it ALL.
    On the other hand, I think most woman are not willing to be honest about what they truly desire.  Some actually do want the check list, someone they can brag about, someone other women would be jealous of …but they know it comes with a price and are not really willing to admit that.
    Some, keep the list as a sheild against the possibity of something real.

    Once you realize it’s the FEELING you get with someone that makes the difference, you are more willing to set aside the List.  I know what I find most attractive, however, experience has taught me when I move to a man that is more in line with my “likes” he is less likely have have what my soul truly desires…

  28. 58

    JB – It seems like you list a lot of things that aren’t true to get past people’s filters.   So I ask . . .

    Is it ok if a woman posts a picture of someone other than herself, someone better looking as her profile picture with no actual photo of her real self on the site?  What about if she posts a picture of her from 20 years ago?  Or 150 pounds thinner?    What if she is only doing it to get past your filter?  Is it the same thing or dishonest?

  29. 59

    It almost looks like for some women their partner’s (external) features become a reflection of their own sense of worth. If they can not say that “he is a doctor/attorney/whatever fancy job title, he earns a six-figure income, he is good-looking, etc” it means that they are a loser. Or maybe it’s a class/status issue with an uncontrollable need to bring home someone perceived as “equivalent”, no matter how irrelevant these features are for a successful relationship and long-term happiness.
    Of course I myself tend to be more comfortable/compatible with someone who has experienced what it is to commit to studying hard for at least four years and as a consequence who has access to more comfortable and interesting jobs. However I’m not hung up on a checklist of requirements, and instead simply live my life according to my values and preferences, which makes me run into the same kind of people without having to work hard at it. Therefore I can turn my focus on assessing men’s deeper qualities, the ones that are actually relevant to building and nurturing a happy and long-lasting relationship. If he happens to be highly educated, a high-earner, or better looking, it’s a bonus. But it’s just that: a bonus. 
    It can be challenging to explain this concept to family and friends, but it’s not impossible. It just takes a little bit of patience, and being okay with letting go of people who do not get it.
    @Goldie #60: “So do you like it here in the US or would you rather go back home?
    Although I understand where it’s coming from, I so, so dislike this kind of question! I was already feeling at home after two weeks in the US, so after so many years of complete engagement in my local californian community, home is 100% here. Much more so than for many Americans actually. I visit my birth country, I’m not going home. People, if I wanted to go back to where I’m from, I would. If I’m here, it’s because I find it much, much better!
    I guess it’s another concept I’ll have to keep explaining for the rest of my life…

  30. 60

    “Like Fiona, I’m also an attorney. If it happens that I’m dating another attorney, my position would be “I’m dating so-and-so, who happens to be an attorney.”

    That seems very odd to me, I would never think to introduce someone I’m dating along with their profession in the same sentence.  Someone’s job/career has nothing to do with the type of person they are. And frankly, why put a prejudice in someone’s mind right away, let that person speak for themself if they choose to reveal their profession or do it in a way they feel comfortable.  This smacks of ‘status’ seeking.  

    To the OP, if speed dating events aren’t getting you to the men you would like to meet, stop going to them!  Choose other ways to meet men.  Might want to consider focusing in on activities that don’t have anything to do with work since masculine energy we use at work is not really an attraction factor for men in romantic situations.

    I also took Evan’s advice and kept myself wide open to many different types of men.  I began to question that advice, and thought perhaps I had kept myself TOO open, not being selective enough (even though ALL the men I dated or had short relationships with were good men).  There were really good looking men in there, engineer types and a wealthy, older man just to make sure I rounded out the selection. 🙂  What happened is a man I dated last year for 6 months re-appeareed into my life recently.  What all that other dating did for me was to TRULY open my eyes to what he good match he was for me, and how generous and attentive he is, and how we’ve begun to move to that level of intimacy I desired in a relationship (that all those other men couldn’t provide).  He’s professional as I am, however, he never went to college.  I more admire his work ethic and perseverce to get to what he wanted/wants to achieve. 

    My four cents 🙂 

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