Do Women Still Get Attention in Online Dating Even If Their Profiles Suck?

Hi Evan ,

I have been reading your information regarding how men have to be unique and different when contact women just because of the sheer numbers of contacts they have. But do women have to do anything extra ordinary? I have looked at a few websites, and some women seem to not really try to attract as much attention as they could. Blurry pictures, pictures of pets, the dreaded bathroom mirror picture (why do they do that), no information in the profile, the list goes on. Do they still get attention and contacts?


A young attractive woman using a webcam photo could write, “I hate you, I hate you, I hate you” as her profile essay and still receive 100 emails a week.

Dear Jim,

A young attractive woman using a webcam photo could write, “I hate you, I hate you, I hate you” as her profile essay and still receive 100 emails a week.

So yes, they still get attention and contacts.

However, your question allows me the opportunity to address something that I don’t know I’ve ever addressed before when it comes to online dating – how women sabotage their own experience by not trying harder.

Everyone knows that men’s profiles, on the whole, are even worse than women. We can debate why, but, for the most part, I think it’s ignorance. Most men simply don’t know that a profile is the equivalent of a resume – if you don’t have a good one, you’re not getting called for an interview. Especially in a competitive job market.

Women have the same ignorance about the importance of a profile, except they don’t experience the same failure as men. As a result, they have no way to learn their lesson. As long as women keep receiving a steady stream of generic emails that say, “Hey, great profile. I think we have a lot in common. Would love to learn more about you,” they’re convinced that they actually have great profiles.

They don’t.

The only reason that many attractive women get these “great profile” emails is that the men writing to them need SOMETHING to say. Unless he wants to write a “you’re hot” (or more likely, “your hot”) email, all he can say is “great profile”. Why? Because you didn’t give him anything specific with which to work.

When women ask me (and boy, do they ask me), why do all the WRONG men write to them, I always have a two part response: 1) By your standards, 95% of men are the wrong men. So don’t be too surprised if you’re not enamored with 9 out of 10 emails you receive. It makes perfect sense. 2) Your profile is likely not attracting the small percentage of “right men” out there – which is something that we can easily change.

It’s because we – men and women alike – haven’t truly figured out what makes us unique. And unique profiles not only get more responses, but they get higher quality responses in return.

Yet some women really get indignant – they poured their heart out in their profile, put a ton of effort into saying what they really feel. And when I take a look at it, 9 times out of 10, she did just that. Except Nancy pouring her heart out as a 45-year-old divorcee in Seattle sounds just like April pouring her heart out as a 35-year-old single girl in New York. The lists of adjectives, the lists of hobbies, the lists of bands and countries and books and TV shows, the clichés, the personal philosophy about life and love and honesty and trust. You’ve seen it before. It’s perfectly articulate, perfectly earnest, and perfectly generic because most woman arrive at the same conclusions.

So when every woman’s profile sounds the same, what do men have to write to?

That’s right. Your looks.

And then we wonder why the level of discourse in online flirtation is so abysmal. It’s because we – men and women alike – haven’t truly figured out what makes us unique. And unique profiles not only get more responses, but they get higher quality responses in return.

One of my favorite online dating anecdotes is of a JDate woman I courted in the summer of 2004. She had a wildly entertaining profile, which included this line: “You’re witty and intelligent and consider me fully worthy of the 5,000 gold coins and two camels that my family has offered as dowry.”

My response:

Subject: Low on camels, high on yams

In the Trobriand Islands, anyway, yams are a very popular dowry staple. That’s about all I got out of cultural anthropology from my freshman year of college, but I think it was worth my parents’ $20,000.

In any case, you’re interesting. Very interesting. And, at risk of being cheesy (I risk this a lot), there’s something behind your eyes. It could be an optic nerve or a sinus, but I’m thinking that it’s some sort of intelligence or mischief or both.

If I’m wrong, well, no yams for you.


If you don’t like the responses you’re getting, it’s incumbent upon you to change how people are reacting to your profile.

She became my girlfriend a month later.

(She dumped me a month after that, but that’s not the point of the story).

Anyway, Jim, I know I’ve hijacked your question to say something that I’ve really wanted to say for awhile, but it’s an important point. If you don’t like the responses you’re getting, it’s incumbent upon you to change how people are reacting to your profile. This is why I offer E-Cyrano profile writing (, where you can fill out a questionnaire, talk to a writer, and have a one-of-a-kind profile within 48 hours. And if you are really serious about maintaining creative control, I offer all my profile writing secrets to you in my audio series, Finding the One Online ( and even give you a 35-page workbook to practice until you get it right.

At the end of the day, both men and women can coast by on their looks, and never feel compelled to have to improve their profiles. If you’re attractive, you will always get attention. But unless you bring your A-game in your essays, you’re probably not going to get the intelligent, witty responses that you crave.

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  1. 31

    Here’s Evan’s take on women sending out the initial e-mail in online dating.
    Starthrower, when you find that you don’t like the caliber of guy writing to you, find the guys you’re interested in.  Once you see that you’re a reasonable fit for what he says he’s looking for, e-mail him.  Not every guy will write back, but there’s probably at least a 1 in 4 chance of him writing back (according to Cat’s OK Cupid article), and quite likely better.  So then if you send out 4 e-mails a week, you’re likely to have 1(or more)  good fish on the line no matter how many initial e-mails you get from the “wrong” guys.
    As far as how relationships go based on who sends the initial e-mail…I e-mailed my fiance first.  He took it from there.  He did the rest of the initiations of other e-mails, phone conversations, dates, becoming exclusive, proposing, the whole nine yards.  So don’t knock it ’til you try it. 🙂

  2. 32
    Karl R

    sayanta said: (#29)
    “I’ve contacted guys, and gotten  responses saying they want to meet up asap. The weird thing is- these same guys were ones that had ‘viewed’ my profile, […] Is it me, or does that make no sense?”

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    As a guy I viewed over 1,000 profiles initially and 100 per week after that. I initially wrote to several women per week, then trimmed it down to 1 or 2. I generally had about 25 women that I considered possibilities for future emails.

    If woman was in that list of 25, I would be thrilled to be contacted by her. But since only the top few would get contacted each week, a woman could be on that list for weeks or months before I got around to contacting her.

    If I viewed a woman’s profile without adding her to that list, it was probably because I didn’t find anything in her profile to connect with. However, if she found something in my profile that she connected with, that was just as good.

    1. 32.1

      “I generally had about 25 women that I considered possibilities for future emails. If woman was in that list of 25, I would be thrilled to be contacted by her. But since only the top few would get contacted each week, a woman could be on that list for weeks or months before I got around to contacting her.”
      Precisely the reason why I will not write to a man. Why should I put myself out there if he isn’t interested enough to immediately send me a message? If I’m not in your top few most desirable contacts, then I’m clearly not the woman you really want. I’m only interested in meeting men who do consider me worth the time and effort it takes to reach out first. I’d rather go out with a guy who is really into me than someone for whom I had to metaphorically raise my hand and shout, “Pick me! Pick me!”

      1. 32.1.1

        “Precisely the reason why I will not write to a woman. Why should I put myself out there if she isn’t interested enough to immediately send me a message? If I’m not in your top few most desirable contacts, then I’m clearly not the woman you really want. I’m only interested in meeting women who do consider me worth the time and effort it takes to reach out first. I’d rather go out with a gal who is really into me than someone for whom I had to metaphorically raise my hand and shout, “Pick me! Pick me!””
        Now tell me, how does that feel? Women that contact men are a billion times more likely to get a better response than the other way around, even if he isn’t interested, because men don’t feel entitled to the attention and value the fact she reached out. Even the best quality men online get treated at best like a significantly bellow average quality woman and the ones who don’t look like Brad Pitt and have a good job and charming personality, they are practically sub-human creatures. Think about that.

        1. W

          I think one of the reasons women might feel this way is the likelihood that many men (if not most) will respond to a woman who reached out to him even if he’s not interested simply due to the possibility of sex. I read somewhere earlier that a large proportion of men don’t ever consider any woman a waste of time if there is a possibility of a sexual encounter. I know there are exceptions but I do believe this is probably how some of these courtship behaviors evolved in the first place. Obviously this tactic doesn’t preclude it from happening even if women wait to be approached but I guess in theory they hope if a guy is willing to put some effort and risk possibility of rejection he’s at least somewhat interested in her for more than sex (?)

  3. 33

    Why should men put in any effort into the first message if the women they message put even less effort into replying or their profiles?
    I send out 1000 emails with the exact same message and only get 3 replies.
    Or I can spend 5 – 10 minutes on 1000 really good emails and only get 3 replies.
    Same results with more time wasted right?
    Women only look at the pics, the man’s height, his financial worth and decide on that to reply or delete the opening email.
    Absolutely absurd for us men to spend much time in the first opening email when the majority of them are just chucked aside with zero reply.

    1. 33.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Hey Evil,

      You’re the problem. Not women.

      When I used to date online, I would spend 5 minutes on an email, and get 1 out of 3 writing back to me. You get 3 out of 1000.

      That tells me that either your emails aren’t very good, your profile isn’t very good, or you’re overestimating the kind of women you can get. I’m guessing it’s all 3.

      Your solution is here – if you actually want to do something different to get results, instead of complaining how much women suck.

      1. 33.1.1

        Hey Evan Marc Katz (EMK),
        I don’t see anywhere in Evil’s post where he said ‘how much women suck’.  What I did see was a fundamental truth about online dating for men, albeit a bit exaggerated.  Online dating is heavy stacked in favor of women and against men.  That’s not to say it is the fault of the women, because it is not.  But it does mean that regardless of thought or effort put into a email sent to a woman online the most likely outcome is that it will be deleted or rejected outright.  So it is only natural to assume that it’s pointless to put any effort into crafting a well thought email when there is a 90% chance of it getting deleted or rejected.  Why bother?

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Because you have 0% chance if you don’t write the email.

        2. TheForgottenOne

          “Because you have 0% chance if you don’t write the email.”
          And only a 10% chance of success if you do.  Not exactly optimistic odds.  So again, why bother?  That’s why I still say online dating is fantastic for women, but it sucks all round for men. It sucks for men because the odds are heavily stacked against them.  It sucks for men because they have a 90% chance of never having their email read or responded to.  And it sucks for men because women rarely take the initiative and make the first move because THEY DON’T HAVE TO!  Sorry, but that doesn’t make for very pleasant experiences for most men on online dating sites.  That’s why I quit online dating sites.  I’d rather focus my attention in the real world where the playing field is at least a little more level.

        3. Not Jerry


          It’s not online dating that is stacked against men, it’s everything.  But in person, you have a chance to win her over.  With electrons, that’s an order of magnitude more difficult.  You have to be more clever!  Your piercing gaze won’t work online.

          If you are at a party with a number of age appropriate women in attendance, do you score with them all?  Or is it more like 3 or 6%?

          Men are the pursuers, women are the submitters. It’s just how the world is.

          Pursuit is lots more work that sitting around waiting to be pursued, for most.  If you catch them and you are worthy, they just might submit to you. No, I don’t mean sex.

          That said, if a woman is interested there is nothing whatsoever wrong with letting that be known. Online, that is by email, usually.

          I have some women friends that I talk to often, mostly about online dating. One is so disheartened she is about to give up. It’s not so easy for them either.  You wouldn’t believe the stuff I have heard.  Well, EMK would.  He hears the same thing all the time.

          It’s no bed of roses for anyone. Is it better than before the internet, going out to a bar and saying “Hey, baby, what’s your sign? ”  I just don’t know.

  4. 34

    #33 and #34

    Agreed, it doesn’t take a lot of time to create a unique email.   It doesn’t have to be long, a few sentences is fine–something that indicates she actually may be special out of the millions of women out there and you’d like to know about X in her profile.

    And also agreed not to bash women because they have ‘criteria’, the same can be said for men–they just look at the pictures and how big her boobs are.  Each sex has their own things that appeal to them, it’s instinctual and we can’t help it.  Reminds me of the saying:  Do you want to be right (women SHOULD look at more than a man’s height) or be happy?

    Having said all that, I can feel the frustration in #34 and can also identify with it!  Might be good to take a break and come back with a better attitude..

    1. 34.1

      How about men boycotting online dating sites altogether? It’s a deceptive business that uses false hopes of finding love for luring an inordinate number of men into paying money on a monthly basis for the privilege of being ignored.  Maybe if enough men did this then some enterprising genius would figure out an online dating site for men that wasn’t so heaving stacked against them.  But I’m a realist and doubt that will happen in my life time.  So I refuse to be a sucker for the online dating sites and thus won’t play that game anymore.

      1. 34.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Hey, Forgotten One: If one out of four marriages started online and they are presumably male/female marriages, how can you say with a straight face that online dating doesn’t work? Objectively, you’re wrong. Online dating doesn’t work for YOU. YOU don’t know how to do it properly. YOU have a bad profile. YOU are writing to women out of your league. YOU are writing emails that lack in wit, specificity and confidence.

        By the way, if you go to the gym and are still fat, is it the gym’s fault? Are you organizing a boycott of gyms, o’ realist? Look at all the fat people who are still running around. Evidently gyms are scams.

        1. APB

          That’s a little rough on the insight, no?  You have no proof that TFO isn’t doing things right. While it is quite possible that he is no different than the many guys out there who write up lousy messages and have bad profiles daily, it is also just as likely that he’s mass deleted just because thousands of other guys fire off thousand of other messages daily to women every day.
          Your gym comparison is off, btw.  TFO’s theoretical results in the gym aren’t due to chance…as in the free weights just not showing up that day just because someone else was occupying their time.  With many women online, if they get tired of looking at the same bunch of profiles applauding her fake mustache picture or responding to her “working hard and playing harder” or she’s not entertained because the guys aren’t living up to her wants fora  court jester (“I want a guy that can make me laugh”)…that’s an instant “unread-deleted” for most guys just because it can be.  
          I look at it this way.  Most women online are socially awkward, damaged in some way or another (I browse a lot of 18-year olds who have “been hurt a lot in the past” and…that sums it up.   Guys, go find women who are socially level and don’t hide in their parent’s basement hoping Prince Charming magically shows up to knock on the door.
          As for the 25% of marriages starting via the Internet…says who?  The study I am looking at funded by EHarmony itself ( says 35% of “marriages start on the Internet”, but I promise not everyone is into paying $190 for a personality survey.
          I would tend to lean towards this tidbit:

          You are many times MORE likely to get hitched by NOT paying for it.
          “eHarmony fails at least 93.8% of the time”
          “It turns out you are 12.4 times more likely to get married this year if you don’t subscribe to”
          I understand you have a business to run, but don’t hide from reality.

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          APB, your numbers are wrong and I’m surprised OkCupid put up such a nonsensical report. Then again, that was before they were bought by Match and they were just trying to get attention for themselves.

          Put it this way:

          eHarmony fails 94% of the time. I would guess that this is probably about the same rate that ALL relationships fail. Thus, I wouldn’t turn to a dating site for compatibility. I would turn to a dating site for OPPORTUNITY. And that’s what people are increasingly doing.

          Let’s say only 20% of people get married started with online dating. You’re taking that to mean that 80% don’t and that therefore “real life” is 4x “superior”. This is utter numerical nonsense. Here’s why.

          100% of people are eligible to participate in real life dating. What percent of people are actively participating in online dating. It’s lower than you think – basically because of people like you who try it, hate it and blame the dating sites instead of themselves. The churn rate (when people quit) is generally 2-3 months. In other words, with online dating, you have maybe 5% of the population accounting for 20% of the marriages. If that were the fact, would you suggest that online dating doesn’t work and that I’m hiding from reality? Nah. If anyone is hiding from reality, it’s those who believe that online dating doesn’t work – because admitting reality would be to admit that LOTS of people are having more success than you.

  5. 35

    I think women get looked at even though their profile sucks but at the same time when men see that her profile either sucks, or she starts bringing out the hundreds of “requirements”, her stupid LONG laundry list that men must meet then yes men will look but quickly pass on her cause even with her online profile she’ back to her same huge stringent “requirements”, laundry list. A lot of women think that oh since he’s not out there in the bars, or she can’t find him when shes out and about she will go to online dating but a lot of them reluctant even in the 21st century.

    Online dating is how a lot of people that are already graduated from college and into their professional lives date. It also amazes me how a lot of yet college students are online which they should be dating in college. College is easy to find dates. But these young women are usually not on for “long term” relationships. A lot of the younger ladies still want the real casual dating and I don’t think that works too well online. I think online is more for people wanting serious dating and ready for serious relationships and are for the most part over the quick fling.  

    These days with online dating yet you hear a lot of women still bitch about “oh I can’t find a guy and I have to do this online dating”. On top of her whining about online dating then she think well when I go online with my profile he must meet this and this and this and this list must go on and on and can’t forget about he must under no certain circumstances be this height even though she put a “range” height in reality she’s waiting for that “tall” guy and goes back to her ol routine of rejecting almost all guys cause she thinks since “Mr. Perfect” wasn’t out there so with her being this ultra specific, ultra laundry list, ultra “list” “Mr. Perfect” has to be online and she’s back to her rejecting almost all men.

    She then goes off about how she can’t meet a good man, she’s ready for a real relationship but she’s looking for the NON EXISTENT “Mr. Perfect” (that doesn’t exist). She then get’s all pissy when she reads the online advice that she can’t be too picky, she shouldn’t just reject all the men and completely limit herself and pigeon hole herself to the point that yeah men look at her profile but once they read her profile men realize how either pissed off she comes across (cause she’s salty about the online dating), she talks about all these specific things that he MUST meet or she’s instantly rejects him or her profile is ultra specific then men will pass her cause they are like she’s one of them too picky and all she’s going to do is constantly say no. Then it’s no wonder that she’s constantly single. Also women have to actually GO OUT with men and date. You actually get to know them better online then you would at the bars with him and her all drunk. I like bars but bars suck to meet women and men.

  6. 36

    Contd… I’m not talking about free dating sites… I’m talking about the pay serious dating sites (, Chemistry etc). Yes I agree that both men and women should obviously have some requirements but they can’t be so ultra specific that all she does is constantly rejects all men cause she’s looking for the non existent “Mr. Perfect” that never exists. Also women you can’t just talk and then when it’s the lets go out she says no. Yes you do get to know each other a lot better online, talking on the phone then in the bars. Also I think a lot of at least the more serious daters that are looking for serious dating are really truthful like 97% truthful especially with the pay online dating sites. I

    1. 36.1
      Not Jerry

      Pay dating sites.  If certain facts were true, I would agree with you.

      But here’s what’s really going on.  On, they have 30 million “members” for you to choose from.  OK, right? That’s a lot.  But guess what? They probably have less than 1 million actual paying members.  Those are the ones you can get a response from, but you can email all 30 million.

      So if any pay sites only included serious customers on the site, then you would be dealing with a serious group of people and the average would be much better than it is.  I would have no problem with that and I would not be yelling that they are crooks letting you email people who cannot respond. But they are actually crooks.
      The possible exception is EMK’s former employer Jdate, but I am not Jewish so I don’t really know.

      Since all those pay sites, Match, eHarmony keep all the former customers on there so you will be suitably impressed at the array of people to choose from, but it’s a lie since at least some of those former customers are DEAD, SEEING SOMEONE, MARRIED,  or otherwise NOT INTERESTED in an email from you.

      But you can’t find that out since they keep the information from you as to which of the people you see are paying and which fall in those other categories.

      They should actually remove those that are not paying, but they can’t since that would be bad for business. So they let you and other paying customers do their marketing for them, you can email all those people who cannot respond, and they hope that you will send a good enough email that the non-paying member will pull out their credit card and respond to you. And I am sure some do that and it’s all worth Match and eHarmony forwarding 490,000,000,000 emails to non-paying former customers since *some* do sign up again.

      You are emailing ghosts. That’s the problem with pay dating sites.

      Now, OKCupid and POF are both owned by now, and they made a big change to POF that makes it have much less utility than it had a week ago, unless you pay.  But it is at least not as bad as the pure pay sites.  The handwriting is on the wall over there. Match bought them to make money, after all.

      1. 36.1.1

        Not Jerry,

        Some (well actually, a lot) of this has come up before. Once created, a profile enjoys a sort of immortality otherwise unknown on planet earth, and short of the owners of these sites suddenly abandoning a “greed is good!” mentality, it’s a pretty safe bet that the profiles of everyone who has ever signed up for these sites will continue to live  in a kind of immortality otherwise unknown on earth. I suppose I should be grateful that, to the extent they are any good, my pictures and scribblings will still be luring in suckers (er, I meant “customers”) long after I have shuffled off this mortal coil.

        There is one thing we can do to cut down the number of “phantoms” we waste time on. At least on Match, and POF, it’s easy to look on a profile and see when someone was last “active”, i.e.. signed in to the site. I’ve found if the last date was more than two weeks ago, that person is most likely temporarily or permanently inactive. Using that as a rule of thumb cuts down on a lot of clutter and wasted effort, in my experience.

        That still leave two problems. The first and most obvious, is emailing those who can’t reply without buying a subscription. I don’t know that there’s any way to check that on Match. On POF it used to be that non-upgraded members could reply to email, but not initiate the exchange; I don’t know if that’s still true. One wonders just how much of the “rejection” attributed to unreeled emails is due to this, but I’ll bet it’s a significant percentage.

        The last, and potentially biggest problem with these “everlasting profiles” is that it further fosters the illusion of “unlimited choice” among those new (and many not so new) to the process. Those of us who have been at this for a while are more than a little aware of the unrealistic expectations this creates; I know Evan and others here have remarked on various aspects of that, repeatedly.

        All in all I’d say that theres a real market for a dating site that can figure out how to address these problems and purge the “phantoms” while still making a profit. Let’s hope someone figures that out, sooner rather than later.

      2. 36.1.2
        Not Jerry

        Buck25, the solution is before you stop paying Match or another pay site, take your pictures and your profile down.

        Most don’t do that and that’s why the chaff is there. Because most people reasonably think when they stop paying they will stop reaping the ‘benefits” of the pay dating site.  All those emails!

        On POF anyone can email anyone as far as I can tell. But I presume Match will start interfering with that soon, the handwriting is on the wall.  They bought that to make money!

        In fact a friend created a profile last week on OKCupid and I helped her a little on the phone. I could not however email her through the site.  And she had no restrictions set. I saw the screenshots.  It said she only accepted emails from some members, but that was not how it looked.  I presume if I paid them I could email her.  Heh.  Weird.

        1. Buck25

          Not Jerry,

          I’m not certain the new ownership at POF isn’t already curtailing the free email. I recently ran into the same thing you noticed with your friend on OKCupid; almost the same message, despite the facts that the profile was completely visible, and the “To contact this user, you must:” restrictions  shown wouldn’t have applied. It’s possible that women may have filtering options we don’t have there, and can’t see (I know that exists on some sites) but I haven’t encountered that on POF before, so who knows? It does add yet another challenge to the ones we already have, doesn’t it?

  7. 37

    Sometimes a “bare bones” profile is intentional. I am guilty of this for reasons of safety. Nowadays in order to “see what’s out there” on a site. you have to submit some sort of profile. I am well known in the (rather rough) small town where I live, and do NOT want any of the men here to know I am “looking” and wind up with a major problem on my doorstep; nor do I want to shell out serious money for a site where there are no/very few older men that have similar values.

  8. 38

    Unless he wants to write a “you’re hot” (or more likely, “your hot”) email,
    LOL  OK, now that’s funny…but sadly, oh so very true.  To many people don’t know how to express there self in a intelligent manner.  It is probably Hooked on Fonics that we should blame.

    1. 38.1
      Bobby Charlton

      Oh the irony.

      Try “Too many people don’t know how to express themselves in an intelligent manner.”

  9. 39
    cinnamon Girl

    I get a lot of what I think are Nigerian Romance Scammers on Chemistry dot com.  Maybe 75% of the email I get is cut and paste boring. Several I have looked up and verified as Romance Scammers (one stole facebook photos from an attractive kindly looking gay man’s facebook page).  So whenever some guy write’s “you are beautiful, I like your smile”… and not much else I assume he is after money and will never ever call me, probably does not live nearby, etc.  If he gets a little specific .. but still complements my appearance a lot, I assume he is after money not dating.

  10. 40

    Those of you guys whining about how “unfair ” online dating is to us men need a reality check. I’m going to give it to you more harshly than Evan has. An attractive female can simply put one picture and a minimal profile out there and get a ton of email. Even a very average women can draw more response than the very best of men. Now, let’s look at what they actually get from all those emails. It’s already been established that at least 95% of those emails (I’d suspect more like 99.9% for the hottest, or the ones who feel especially entitled) are from men they have no interest in, and are therefore useless to them, except as validation of their desirability. That validation, gentlemen, is about all most of them are getting that we are not. What some of you are whining about is essentially that we’re having to give them more than we are getting in return. That is not the attitude of a man; it is the attitude of a spoiled, self-centered, entitled brat! Make sure you don’t give more than you get, right? How’s that working out for you in the rest of your life?

    It’s true that to women looking at us online, our feelings do not matter, and will not matter, until and unless we excite them, impress them, entertain them, or amuse them. It’s the same in real life; the internet environment just amplifies the effect, because here, we are pictures and words, easily depersonalized and dismissed without hesitation. Cold and cruel? Maybe; but isn’t that what we do with any woman we find unattractive? Do we care how they feel about that? You might want to think about that, along with the novel (to you, apparently) concept that we cannot expect others to give us any sense of self worth that we don’t have within ourselves. 

  11. 41

    The only thing I will say EMK, is that maybe the email example to your ex-girlfriend only took YOU 5-10 mins to write, but that would’ve taken me at least 30 minutes to think up! So I don’t necessarily fault men for not writing a creative email….if they just ask me about something I’ve mentioned in my profile, that definitely gets my attention more than a quick generic one.

  12. 42

    Who gets the fewest responses on online dating? Black women. By miles and miles. Fewer than white men, black men, women of all races, most certainly white women.

    How would you like to be a member of a group openly and commonly referred to as the least datable or least desirable group? Doesn’t do much for your self esteem.

    White men men need to quit the whining. There are women online who aren’t hot commodities who would be more likely to give them a chance than Skinnysuzy Whitegirl is. But those women aren’t good enough in their eyes. So boo hoo.

  13. 43
    Nobody special

    Eh, to be honest, I’ve sent plenty of messages mentioning the profile and using it to craft a message lots of times. It never works. I can remember this one woman I sent a message to where she mentioned a recent death to someone close to her. I sent a message that included my condolences about her loss. She proceeded to fly into a tirade asking me how the hell did I know that this person died and was I Internet stalking her. I told her she wrote it in her profile. She was like “oh” then ghosted me. We ought to force online dating on prisoners. They’ll wish they were dead. I know I do.

  14. 44

    I love how you write profiles Evan. This prompted me a few years ago to pay for your services. What I got was a boring profile, that was not obviously written by you, but one of your writers. It covered all my details, but was serious and in no way playful.  I thought I was paying YOU to write my profile for me. I would have been happy to pay MORE for you to actually do it, so yo need to clarify this when people are paying for you to write, rather than one of your writers, who don;t have a clue !

    1. 44.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      a. I only take around 15% of e-Cyrano applicants and all writers are trained by me. The average client review of an e-Cyrano profile is 8.75. They are certainly not clueless.

      b. My writers and I only write what you tell us to write (in your questionnaire and on the phone). If a client says something funny, her profile is funny. Blaming a writer for your profile being boring is like blaming a photographer because you look heavy in your photos. We capture; we don’t invent.

      c. Nowhere on e-Cyrano does it suggest that I write all the profiles. You are literally the only person in 13 years who has assumed that I was writing every single profile on there for $129 a pop.

      Sorry you were disappointed, but perhaps a new Gold profile and a new writer would be in order for you. The vast majority of clients are supremely happy with the results.

  15. 45

    Online dating is very scary nowadays and Most of these women are looking for perfection. And they want a man that makes a ton of money which it is very Difficult for these women to accept a man for who he really is since they want the best and will never settle for less which most of these women are very greedy and selfish as it is.  Online dating has become a very raw deal for many of us serious good men out there looking for love today which is really like looking for a needle in a haystack or trying to win the lottery which makes our chances very slim unfortunately.  With so many women having their careers today making a very high salary most of them will really never go with a man that makes much less money than they do anyway which makes it even more very difficult for us serious men out there that don’t really care how much a woman makes which if she has a very nice personalty well that would be a real plus especially if we happen to be very compatible with one another.

  16. 46

    “Most of these women,are looking for perfection.”


    Some of them are; the operative word is “some“. Do women want the best they can get, in the mating game? Yep…and so do we; so get right down to it, they’re no better, and no worse, than we are.

    Online is an easy environment only for the few “beautiful people”; for everyone else, male and female, it’s a struggle. Now to us, the average woman appears to have it easier, in that she can get attention, and dates, where the average guy struggles to get either. The question is, can they get either from the guys they really want to get it from, because for them, that’s the key. Most guys, if they’re horny enough, and desperate enough, will date and even sleep with anything vaguely female. Most women will NOT do that with men; if a man doesn’t look like relationship material to them, they won’t bother in the first place; in the beginning, they actually put a higher value on sexual attraction than we do. Why? Because their primary goal, (commitment) is different from ours (sex). They like sex as much as we do, but, women have a strong desire  for sex to be associated with commitment, either as a part of it, or as at least a way of obtaining it, so they’re more emotionally invested in it; it’s not the end in itself that it often is for us.

    Part of the significance of that, is that online, it’s not so easy for a woman to discern whether or not a man has the other characteristics she finds sexually attractive in a man (confidence, charisma, intelligence, character, and so on; these DO matter to a woman) . Even in a well-written profile, those things (especially the first two) don’t always come across in words on a screen. So, she looks at what she can see (photos), and if that attracts her, she assumes the rest, even as she looks for anything that may disprove those assumptions. This is why women look for reasons to disqualify a man, and why first meetings often make us feel like we’re the subject of an inquisition.

    Money is something further down most women’s priority list; if it weren’t, wealthy guys would be awash in dates, sex, etc., but most aren’t. Wealth doesn’t actually help a man that much in this game, and with some women, it can actually hurt a man’s chances. Let’s just say my income and net worth are high enough, that if money was as important to women as you think, I would know.

    By the way, James, if online dating isn’t working for you, and you can’t figure out why, or make it better, where is it written that you can’t date in the real world, either in addition to or instead of online dating ? You can, and maybe you should.

  17. 47

    Women 35 or over should boycott online dating if they want to meet and be treated right by men. Online dating degrades a woman’s social value. Online sites objectify both sexes but more so the women. Women are to portray themselves with sex appeal otherwise they won’t get much attention. The kind of attention that has false pretenses.

    1. 47.1


      Uh-huh, like 99.9% of those women don’t objectify men? Give me a break. Damn right you have to have some sex appeal; that’s little enough to ask, when you don’t just want, you DEMAND, that a man be a combination of sex god, ATM, meal ticket, and social status enhancer, among other things. Shove the attitude, cause this man is fed up with that sanctimonious, whining trash talk. What do you think you have to offer any man, except looks, and sex, huh? ANYTHING, (except an entitled attitude, a self -righteous claim to moral superiority NONE of you actually merit,  a mostly empty brain, and a compulsion to remake a man, if you catch one, in the supposed perfection of your own female image)? I doubt it. Go ahead, quit OLD; you’re just cluttering  up the place anyway, cause you sure as hell ain’t no special snowflake, cupcake; just another ranting little feminist mouth with an attitude and not much else. Boycott away; no one actually cares.

  18. 48

    Buck, have you experienced online dating? Cause your angry tone proves to be one of the many negative side effects of the online dating. It disappoints, deflates, plays with ones emotions, and it places most in a never ending illusive cycle of “going-to-find-the-next-best-thing.” Which can lead to another never ending frustration.

    As I said before, online dating objectifies both sexes. It has nothing to do with feminism, which I am the least of all.

    One thing is certain. Meeting people outside the realm of Internet can be far more real and honest. Oh but wait! There goes another side effect. Internet has basically destroyed initiating a real life human connection and placed it with fictitious matchings. For some men, it has reduced the fear of “rejection.” They can ask someone out without making eye contact and worst of all know “shit” about her. In many cases, she may not even be a woman!!! But beats the feeling of rejection so I am told.



  19. 49

    Yeah, I’ve experienced it; a refuge for the worst of the worst of American women, (and one assumes, American men).  If there are even 5% of women online who don’t lie, repeatedly, blatantly and often in their profiles I’d be shocked; Lying about age, activity level, body type it’s to all intents universal; women at least a size 16 (I’m  being generous) call themselves “athletic and toned”; those land whales haven’t seen the inside of a gym in 20 years, if that. The ones in my age group (over 55) are the worst offenders of the lot! And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. It ought to be patently obvious, that a 60+ year old woman ought to be damn grateful, to even get a coffee date. Of the few in my area who look like they might new marginally acceptable, most are using fake or old pictures. Meet one, and she acts like she’s doing me a favor. That’s not the reaction I get in real life. But from an online “date”? Disgusting and insulting. I’m so far beyond these mostly feeble minded, arrogant, vapid, women who claims to be educated (probably lying about that as well), I feel like just walking out. I’ve met four of these lying creatures for coffee this week alone; each a complete waste of time for any man, let alone a fit, educated, successful one.  Evan here condones their lying, of course, but then I don’t guess he’s ever seen a woman do anything he disapproved of (unless she did it to him). I can’t imagine anyone ever gives one of these things, barely recognizable as female, a second date, and I’m tired of giving any even a first. I’d have more trust in a common prostitute. I wish I’d never even heard of the idea; it’s a complete cesspool. Nope, from now on, I’ll stick to arrangements with much younger women; better looking, smarter, sexier, and a damn site more honest, thee time is actually worth my while. The typical sixty year old, isn’t worth a bucket of warm spit…for anything. I’m done with all of them, online or real life. I used to like women; after four years online, I don’t, not anymore. From now on I’m going to date the best I can get, not the age group a bunch of older, used up women say  I “should” date. Their opinion is as worthless, as everything else about them, from the ugly faces and sagging bodies, to the even uglier personalities.

    My advice to any man who can approach and date women unreal life, is to leave the online sites to the gutless losers, afraid to approach a real woman. They, and the female population online, deserve each other; they can call themselves the liars and losers club.

    1. 49.1

      My heart is breaking for you–you’ve decided to hate all women over 60 because of 4 women?  That’s so sad.  Anyone who has been dating online will be disappointed.   Within in the past few months of online dating, here are just a sampling of things I have experienced — stood up, canceled on because I suggested meeting for coffee at the Whole Foods Cafe, dismissed because I would not take my profile down after exchanging 2 that’s right 2 emails with a man, dumped because I am friendly with my ex; dumped because I would not  drink, yes that’s right, drink a man’s semen; dismissed because I didn’t want to meet a man’s son on our second date,    It would be very easy for men to be angry and declare all men over 50 are dogs, but I don’t.  Those men are not ALL men and I know that.  I know that I just have to keep holding on until I find the right guy for me, and I have to be the upbeat and happy person I have always been while doing it.

      To be clear, I am not saying that you should date women your age — especially if you think they are disgusting.   You should date whatever legal age woman you want to date. Just go and date those women and enjoy your life.  I don’t think saying such mean-spirited things on this website about a whole group of women will make you happy.  So, just go do what will and go back to being the reasonable, rational, and wise guy you used to be.

    2. 49.2

      Buck-  I can relate to what you’re saying very well.  It’s frustration after frustration after frustration and it’s easy to get down, very easy.  I see the same things you’ve been seeing, one misrepresentation after another- they say they’re divorced but they’re separated; they lie about their age;  they say athletic and toned but you can see in their pictures that they are apathetic and tonnes.  I have to keep reminding myself that online dating exposes me to people I would otherwise not be exposed to.  That the signal to noise ratio is really really bad over 45 and gets worse with increasing age but I need to focus on the signal and filter out the noise.  It’s too easy to focus on the noise, especially when it’s one disappointment after another after another and you feel like, as you said, it’s the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, you’re behind by a lot, and it’s the last game of the season- great analogy.  Look for the signal and don’t give up.  I’m partner-less too and it feels like I’ve viewed every woman’s profile in my area and the well has dried up.  It’s an awful feeling.  Or you get into a relationship and it falls apart.

    3. 49.3

      “It ought to be patently obvious, that a 60+ year old woman ought to be damn grateful, to even get a coffee date.”

      If women your age are old, used up, ugly and sagging, then what does that make you? Or are you the one exception? And at the same time you are contemptuous towards the younger women who reject you. You may be old but you are completely self-unaware.

      Is there anything in the world men hate more than women their own age? Why is this type of venom towards women permitted on a site that is purported to be geared to help women? The comments section is full of similar sentiments. Is that supposed to build women up and give us hope?

  20. 50


    These four were the final straw that finally pushed me past the breaking point. There have been a lot more before them, with similar results, over the last four years. I’ve encountered nothing but dishonesty (extreme, blatant and immediately obvious) arrogance, unattractiveness and bad attitudes, until I wonder if there’s a woman in that age group even capable of telling the truth. I will say your latest handful on the other side consisted of some strange characters (one, in particular, is something I’ve never heard of, and I’ve been around enough that there’s little of either male or female sexual psychopathology that surprises me). Whatever compatibility that may come from common life experience, etc, is outweighed completely by those personalities, combined with a complete lack of anything resembling sexual attraction. I think it’s time to forget about a long term relationship; not worth much at my age anyway, IF it was even possible to find one I wanted; given the population where I’m at, that’s as likely as locating a hen’s tooth.

    I’ve had a number of younger women, IRL, offer me “arrangements” , in exchange for some “lifestyle enhancement” for them, and that’s without me even asking. Right about now, I’m kicking myself for turning those down, ( I sure won’t the next time!) and taking the advice of our host here to “compromise and settle for compatibility”. With all due respect to Evan, I don’t believe that he has the requisite experience with what it’s like to be a man my age, to be advising me or any other man with twice his life experience on how to conduct our dating/sex life at an age he’s never come close to experiencing; life’s a little different at 68, than 39, and so are a man’s priorities. A long term relationship with a sexless crone is worthless to me; why anyone waxes sentimental over such a useless, boring disgusting thing is beyond me. Then again,I still like to have fun, and if that includes what some of you call “empty sex”, so be it. That’s a damn site better than the utterly worthless old women I wasted the last four years on! So to hell with love and bring on the gold diggers. I can handle them, and they’re a helluva lot more pleasant to be around than the aging, presumptuous, judgmental  harpies I’ve encountered here and in OLD. This was just a parting slash at the ones here; consider it payback, for the stereotyped insults I’ve seen hurled at men my age here. Won’t see ya, wouldn’t wanna be ya! I’m out of here.

    1. 50.1


      I think Evan recommends compatibility AND attraction just not attraction at the expense of capatiability.  Also, I just don’t understand who is telling you not date younger women or to go for a sugar daddy/sugar baby relationship.  And why would you do what other people want anyway.  As my favorite comic says, you are a grown ass man, why in the world are you listening to other people –especially strangers on the Internet?

      Most people are seeking monogamy but I realized that I don’t think I can find what I want in one man so I want two.   Now, lots of people will disapprove of that but I don’t care.  I have always done what felt right and good for me.   Once I decided to be polyamourous,   I told the one guy that I was seeing that because he can’t give me everything I want that I want to see other people — and I was not doing it to make him jealous.   He thought it was a good idea so that is what I am doing now and it’s working for us.   Will this arrangement work for everyone?  No.  I don’t think I would even recommend it to most people.  But, it works for me.

      I guess I just don’t understand why you are sooooo angry.  You are being treated the way everyone who dates online is being treated.  Everyone is lied to and deceived on occasion.  Everyone dates arrogant and entitled people.  Everyone dates someone who is 20 years older and 50 lbs heavier than their picture.  Everyone dates someone they don’t find attractive.

      Good luck to you.  I do hope you are able to find a relationship that makes you happy — perhaps when you do, you can forgive all the women that wronged you.


    2. 50.2

      This whole post makes me so sad. I don’t know what happened in the last two weeks to cause the old anger to return and I’m very sorry for it. I hope you find what you are looking for, find some peace, find something that gives you joy.

      I hope someday you return too. The Buck who came back a couple months ago, with kindness in his heart, wisdom too, and a real desire to engage and listen. Or if not return to some online blog, at least find those qualities within himself again in general.

      I wish you the best, Buck. I really do.

  21. 51

    I’ve been online ‘dating’ for 2 months now.  I’ve had over 750 profile views, had an e-Cyrano profile written, but the only emails I get (and there have only been 10 or so of them) are from guys just looking for sex.  I have gone weeks with no emails at all, and I never get responses to my intial emails.  Maybe its a problem being 50, divorced with a master’s degree?  I’m at a loss.

  22. 52

    When I was online, my profile SUCKED. I only had a one liner in there. And while this is a bit arrogant of me (I know, I know but I can only be honest), I KNEW that my profile would receive loads of attention because of the way I look. I literally did not receive less than 30 emails a day (and that was a slow day in the beginning – no kidding). You know why? Because while looks is not the only thing that is important to men, I believe that looks are the MOST important factor (at first) to men. And point was proven…

    On the other hand, I would NEVER email a man first if he had nothing in his profile no matter his hotness or profession. Yes, I do see the hypocrisy in this but hey, it worked for me.


    1. 52.1
      Yet Another Guy


      Looks are the lowest common denominator when it comes to men, but it takes more than looks to motivate a mature man who has active gray matter to reach out.   An experienced man with any kind of game realizes that initiating contact with a woman online means that he is opening himself up to shit testing.   The more attractive the woman, the higher the probability that she will shit test.  A woman shit tests a man to see if she can lower his SMV.  Women are often completely oblivious to the fact they do in fact shit test men.  I either ignore shit tests or agree and amplify, which usually ends any attempt to shit test me.   Only insecure men who question their self-worth tolerate shit testing.

  23. 53
    Just some guy

    I love how you make fun of men for likely using “your hot” instead of “you’re hot”, but then you write “most woman arrive at the same conclusions.” 🙂

    1. 53.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I love that you can’t tell the difference between a typo and a spelling mistake.

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