How Can a Sexy Woman Like Me Show Men Online I’m Not Up for a One Night Stand?

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I recently made an online profile in the hopes of trying to find a man that I can connect with on a deeper level than the past. I’ve tried to learn from my past mistakes in dating and grow from them and I figured trying online dating would help widen my dating pool. The main problem I have is men only being interested in me for sex or being blatantly sexual when they first approach me. I am a very attractive black woman with a curvy body and I often feel like guys want black women for sex, particularly men of other races.

I’m frustrated because when I go out men make me feel extremely uncomfortable by constantly commenting on the way I look and men online get into sex very quickly. A lot of people don’t understand why I’ve turned to online dating since I’ve been told I’m a catch and don’t seem like I would have trouble meeting people. They’re right, I don’t have trouble meeting people but I do have trouble finding men that want to get to know me seriously and not just use me for my body.

I dress in a way that’s flattering to me but I don’t let all my stuff hang out. I have a degree from an Ivy level institution, am really kind and generally respectful to everyone. Why is it that men only seem to want me for sex? I think I have a great personality that matches my looks and am thinking of just deleting my profile since it’s making dating more uncomfortable and is extremely disappointing. What can I do to show guys I’m girlfriend material and more than just a one night stand?

Thanks,
Nay

In 2004, “I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book — A Commonsense Guide to Successful Internet Dating,” a 31-year-old Evan Marc Katz wrote that online dating photos showing skin were a no-no.

In 2017, a 44-year-old Evan Marc Katz declares the younger Evan Marc Katz a hypocrite

I realized I was a hypocrite years ago; I just don’t think I ever posted about it until now.

Bikini? Short dress? Cleavage? Yes, please.

The idea behind telling women not to post sexy, figure-flattering photos was to avoid attracting the “wrong” kind of guy. And I get it — on the internet, there are a LOT of “wrong” men who think nothing of writing the nastiest things from get-go. So, on one hand, there is plenty of evidence that sexy photos can bring out the worst in men. On the other hand, when forced to do a bit of soul-searching, I quickly realized something pretty important: evidently, this meant that I was one of the wrong men.

Bikini? Short dress? Cleavage?

Yes, please.

So what does that mean about me? Nothing — apart from the fact that I’m a red-blooded-American male and one of the only “experts” I know who is honest enough to admit such things publicly.

Which is why I no longer discourage attractive women with good bodies from hiding them.

Fact is, according to OKCupid, it WORKS.

Women with cleavage get 49% more emails per month.

Not only that, if you continue to showcase your sex appeal more as you age (when most women tone it down), you will have even a greater advantage than the younger women who show cleavage.

Since many readers tend to lose sight of nuance, Nay, I am certainly not encouraging you to go purchase boudoir photos, wearing a negligee, ass up on the bed, your finger parting your lips.

You’re not selling sex here. You’re accentuating your strengths in an organic way. Show a photo of you and your best friend on the beach last summer. Use a picture where you’re dolled up for a night out on the town. Don’t be shy about something that is form-fitting or shows a hint of skin. Just make sure that this is one of seven OTHER photos that show you in real life, dressed up for Halloween, attending your sister’s wedding, or hiking in Runyon Canyon.

Sex isn’t ALL that you are, but it should be a PIECE of who you are.

Women who neuter themselves in their online dating profiles are hurting their own chances to attract men, and falsely conflate dating (which ideally involves sex) with job hunting (which, ideally, doesn’t.)

Sex isn’t ALL that you are, but it should be a PIECE of who you are.

By the way, two notes that should make you breathe easier:

    1. You can delete 90% of men right off the bat — including anyone who writes something aggressively icky.
    2. You can date WITHOUT photos, as long as you have a great profile and email technique.

My thoughts on how to get men to fall for you without a photo can be found here.

Your thoughts on the effectiveness of showcasing your body in online dating photos are greatly appreciated below.

Join our conversation (207 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 21
    Shaukat

    Women have their own challenges

    @Marika,

    Agreed. I think I alluded to that in my post.

    We need to make our own opportunities & stop whinging about things we can’t change

    Agree 100%.

  2. 22
    S

    The OKCupid statistics he refers to in the article actual said that more women with cleavage got more responses, but those responses led to less conversations and that women with pictures doing an activity like a hobby or a hike had more responses that led to a conversation.

    Also women that were flirty with the camera like giving a peace sign got a lot of responses and selfies with the phone held up above looking up at it got a lot of responses – even thought the OKCupid people thought they’d be considered lame.

    Also they debunked the shirtless guy myth. Shirtless guys got more responses.

  3. 23
    Barbara

    About two weeks ago, I started reading articles on narcissism and wound up buying the book “Rethinking Narcissism: The Bad–And Surprisingly Good–About Feeling Special” by Craig Malkin, MD. I encourage the o.p. and everyone to get a copy.

    My new and limited study of narcissism has made it so much easier than it has ever been for me to spot a man who wouldn’t be good for me due to his unhealthy level of narcissism.

    Equally or more important, I’ve recognized my own tendency to be too narcissistic and how this has caused my relationship problems.

    For me, learning about the narcissism spectrum has been just what I’ve nedeed to take everything I’ve been learning from Evan to the next level. The alpha male that Evan describes and that I’ve always been attracted to displays a high degree of narcissism that’s easy to spot once you know what to look for. This knowledge makes it easier for me to rewire my attraction circuitry so that, as Evan suggests, I can find a man attractive not solely based on how he looks but primarily on how he treats me.

    Just this week I had a date with a man who is a 7 in looks and a 10 in compatibility and the date almost didn’t happen. Why? I called it off because of one thing he said on the phone! Fortunately, I had second thoughts, called him back, and he agreed to still have the date.

    He is sane, nice, unpretentious, confident, intelligent, and altruistic. And, although, he’s not super hot, I can imagine myself kissing him and liking it.

    I have no idea what will happen between us but I am very encouraged by the fact that I’ve developed the wisdom to choose a man like him because that means I’m capable of doing it again and however many times it takes until I find my life partner.

     

    1. 23.1
      Barbara

      P.S. The reason I decided to go out with the guy after at first calling off our date is because it dawned on me that he was the kind of man I would normally pass over. I realized I was repeating my life-long pattern with men which had consistently been a failed strategy. So, as Evan says, I decided to date against my type. Doing this will be my strategy going forward.

  4. 24
    FG

    For 19 and onwards…
    If your reminiscence of your sexual encounters is that they are all mostly bland, or unsatisfying, or uninteresting, and this over the course of many different men, two things come to mind: 1) you yourself are the common denominator of all those encounters, and/or b) if you constantly select  mediocre sparring partners, best alter your selection criteria.

    Most women think they’re fantastic in bed. The fact is, due to male mechanics, few of them are really bad, but most of them are not great or even notable. How a guy feels about the whole woman can alter that view. If a woman is spectacular in the sack, the notion of “practice makes perfect” arises. In such a case, she may be a great benefits material, and not so great gf material.

    Not judging, but when a woman can start expressing batting averages and percentages, she is likely well beyond the range of normal attachment modes for her gender. And there is plenty of material about that if you care to look for it! If vaginal reconstruction is starting to sound like a great idea, and not from deliveries, such as Anne Heche gets in Spread, maybe a gal has been around a little too much.

    On a more subtle note, if you are so taken w yourself that nothing compares to U, you likely act the part of me me me narcissistic egotistical lover, and that can be felt and quickly understood by your partner. When that happens, the man will not care to perform that well, since you’re into yourself, and not into him. No pun intended.

    1. 24.1
      Barbara

      FG

      Most women think they’re fantastic in bed.

      There is no way you know how “most women” think about their sexual  performance.

      The fact is, due to male mechanics, few of them are really bad, but most of them [women] are not great or even notable.

      If most of your experiences with women is that they haven’t been “that great or even notable,” then isn’t your statement applicable to you: “You yourself are the common denominator of all those encounters…if you constantly select  mediocre sparring partners, best alter your selection criteria.”?

      Not judging, but when a woman can start expressing batting averages and percentages, she is likely well beyond the range of normal attachment modes for her gender.

      How do you know what’s “normal attachment modes” for women? This is an open forum in which both men and women are expressing their experiences and opinions anonymously, if they choose, including you. The idea that a woman shouldn’t be able to have an idea about and opinion of her own “percentages” and her sexual experiences and history is not only judgmental, it’s sexist and hypocritical. That is, it’s judgemental assuming you don’t hold men to the same standard of what is correct to discuss. If you think both men and women should be clueless about these matters then you’re simply being judgmental and perhaps you’re naive and have had few sexual encounters, which is understandable if you are a very young man.

      If vaginal reconstruction is starting to sound like a great idea, and not from deliveries, such as Anne Heche gets in Spread, maybe a gal has been around a little too much.

      This is just blatantly sexist, no matter how old you are. Who are you to say what is acceptable for a woman to do sexually with a consenting adult or to her own body when it comes to a  procedure that is accepted by the professional medical community?

      If a woman is spectacular in the sack, the notion of “practice makes perfect” arises. In such a case, she may be a great benefits material, and not so great gf material.

      AND

      if you constantly select  mediocre sparring partners, best alter your selection criteria.

      The fact that you think women should “select” “sparring partners” that are above “mediocre” AND that you think women who are “spectacular in bed” are not girl friend material belies a serious Madonna-Whore complex.

      In your world, a woman is supposed to gain awareness of how to “select” a good “sparring partner”–that is, to discover what her sexual preferences are– without  actually gaining experience through the real life “practice” of having sex. Not only that, by a woman can “practice” with the same man and improve her sexual know-how that way. You don’t account for that at all in your baseless analysis of what women should and shouldn’t do in bed.

      If you have a girlfriend, I wonder how she feels about knowing you think she is either a so-so lover or a great lover that you are using just for sex because, due to the fact that her sexual skill clearly proves she’s had sex way too many times, you are only using her   until a more virtuous women–a virgin who was just born knowing how to be a great at sex–comes along.

      1. 24.1.1
        Emily, the original

        Barbara,

        Thank you for responding to his yucky post, although something tells me he’s just trolling.

        1. Barbara

          Emily, the Original.

          Silly me.  You’re probably right.

        2. GoWiththeFlow

          Barbara & Emily,

          Not to mention that this. . .

          If vaginal reconstruction is starting to sound like a great idea, and not from deliveries, such as Anne Heche gets in Spread, maybe a gal has been around a little too much.

          . . . is just medically inaccurate.   That’s like saying that the more partners a man has, the more likely he is to develop erectile dysfunction, because he’s overusing his penis.

           

           

        3. Emily, the original

          GoWiththeFlow,

          That’s like saying that the more partners a man has, the more likely he is to develop erectile dysfunction, because he’s overusing his penis.

          Or that it’ll be worn down into a stub with overuse!

        4. ScottH

          Actually, I thought “use it or lose it” applies quite well.   We have to keep that thing in operational readiness at all times.   But yeah, overuse/abuse is definitely not a good thing.   ouch!

      2. 24.1.2
        Barbara

        FG

        My corrections to my original reply to you is in bold:

        The idea that a woman shouldn’t be able to have an idea about and opinion of her own “percentages” and her sexual experiences and history is not only judgmental, it’s sexist and hypocritical. That is, it’s sexist and hypocritical assuming you don’t hold men to the same standard of what is correct to discuss. If you think both men and women should be clueless about these matters then you’re simply being judgmental and perhaps you’re naive and have had few sexual encounters, which is understandable if you are a very young man.

        AND

        Not only that, but  a woman can “practice” with the same man and improve her sexual know-how that way.

      3. 24.1.3
        FG

        I love selective reading and pouncing. Sensitive, are we? 🙂 Conjuring conjecture? The key point is that a lover should be someone you are at least somehow connected to, or have a connection with, not just a random, quasi indiscriminate person. At least once your experimentation phase is over. What YOU do is your own business.

        I mentioned a SINGLE case of “really bad”. As to amazing, which goes to “technique”, I can count TWO, and that is less than 2%, if notch count excites you. By their own admission, both were (their word, not mine) “sluts”.  Practice makes perfect!

        Nuances, nuances. “…she MAY be…not so great gf material” alludes to possible attachment and/or commitment problems, potential infidelity issues (as some stats indicate), but boils down in the end to the quality of the relationship. Missed “How a guy feels about the whole woman can alter that view”   did you?

        Yes, vaginal reconstruction is a procedure, Did mention deliveries (for pregnancies). Did not mention being married to Godzila for a few years (that would be a good reason). But if the reason is overuse wear  & tear, well! 🙂   Wouldn’t buy retread tires for my car! Others are free to do so if they so please. WHERE did I write that promiscuous men are in a safe haven from potential detachment by being male? Pray tell!

        No, we have no idea or clue what constitutes normal attachment for YOU, but for women in general, we do have some indication. And generalization is, as always, a trap. You may be an outlier and capable of committed, deep attachment in spite of your (choose a number from 0.5 to 9 or more) dozen lovers!

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4394850/

        A blog, but nonetheless a good reference on the various theories
        https://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/thoughts-on-pair-bonding/

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4060846/The-ideal-number-sexual-partners-men-women-revealed.html

        https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-many-partners-has-your-girlfriend-had-find-out-here

        You are fully entitled to do as you please, and the effect on you may not be the same as it might be on the average gal. IQ, personality type, environment and other factors come into play (which seems to be forgotten even by MDs, it seems, who debate against a possible outcome under certain stresses when the outcome is not a certainty DUE to other factors).
        And yes, AGE allows for cumulative experience. Until it no longer does! Not there yet! 🙂

        1. FG

          Afterthought

          Forgot to throw in the excellent PhD work linking Emotional Promiscuity and Sexual Promiscuity. As well as a few other entertaining explorations. Link allows to DL the PDF

          How I or YOU feel about it is not entirely relevant, see? It has much to do with SUBjective as opposed to OBjective discussion.

          https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwia4qmZm9TRAhUo1oMKHTikAlEQFghXMAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fopen.library.ubc.ca%2Fmedia%2Fdownload%2Fpdf%2F24%2F1.0072282%2F1%2F1017&usg=AFQjCNHDY9RtJ3mNqtel-Zr3rzW1yoYkMQ&sig2=TnmeLeBYEa4k7garrl-law

           

        2. Barbara

          FG

          I just can’t help it.

          I mentioned a SINGLE case of “really bad”.

          You chose to ignore the statement of yours that I was referring to:

          Most women think they’re fantastic in bed. The fact is, due to male mechanics, few of them are really bad, but most of them are not great or even notable.

          Given what you yourself stated, if you keep having sex with women who “are not great or even notable” in bed, I stand by my original reply, which is simply to, once again, quote you:

          “You  yourself are the common denominator of all those encounters…if you constantly select  mediocre sparring partners, best alter your selection criteria.”?

          Of course, at this point, you could say that you didn’t mean that you’ve been having lackluster sex; on the contrary, your sexual experiences have mostly been stellar; but most other men have had to settle for ho-hum sex and you know this is true because you read a study about those poor guys…

        3. Barbara

          FG

          Most women think they’re fantastic in bed. The fact is, due to male mechanics, few of them are really bad, but most of them are not great or even notable.
          This gem of wisdom of yours is the gift that keeps on giving:

          “You  yourself are the common denominator of all those encounters…”

          Given what you stated here, as the “common denominator” in your sexual encounters with women, isn’t it just a teeny bit possible that the reasons you’ve experienced sex as  “not great or even notable”   are that your sexual skills need improvement or you’re just not that into having sex with women?

    2. 24.2
      KK

      FG,

      “If a woman is spectacular in the sack, the notion of “practice makes perfect” arises. In such a case, she may be a great benefits material, and not so great gf material.”

      Lol! You’re in your fifties, dude. If you end up with a terrible lover, it has little to do with the amount of ‘practice’ she’s had. Let’s apply a little logic. If happily married couples are having sex at least twice a week, that means that anyone married over 10 years has had sex over 1,000 times. But by all means, if you end up with a mediocre lover and (in your head) you think she’s less practiced, go for it! Lol!!!

    3. 24.3
      diana

      While I do not agree with much of what Stacy2 says on this board, she is right.   Most (many) men are lousy in bed and it does not surprise me that someone would come along and blame the woman for having this sentiment.

      Since many men cannot stand the idea that women have sexual appetites or expectations they cannot fill, they are compelled to accuse the woman of having been around the block too much, having psychological deficiencies,   or the inability or unwillingness to make a bland sexual experience exciting.

      I believe Stacy2 and some other women need a certain type of sexual play for it to be truly satisfying.   While many women (and men) do not need that, there are some who will not be fulfilled otherwise.

      1. 24.3.1
        Marika

        Diana & Stacy2

        I probably should let this go, but I can’t…

        There are about 3.5 billion men on the planet, and let’s say (to give it a nice round number) maybe around 2 billion who are of the legal age of consent and straight. So unless you’ve both been having sex with different men every night, from all different countries, for most of your adult life, there is no way you can know that most or many men suck in bed. Even if you’ve had hundreds of lovers, that’s still not most men. We all only speak from our own experience.

        Ladies, generalisations like this are completely unhelpful & make other people, particularly I would imagine male readers, discount our reasonable and useful points of view.

        What on earth can be achieved from generalising about how x (bad/terrible/wrong) all y (insert men or women) are in the area of z (sex/online dating/etc)? Honestly, I don’t get it.

  5. 25
    Marie

    Barbara, I enjoy reading your posts and enjoy reading the different viewpoints between you and Stacy2, as you are both smart, strong, successful women.   I admit I do not understand this suburban wife/mom circus that you and Stacy2 are talking about and Stacy2 so abhors. Since I am lucky to be successful and have the means, I just try to create whatever environment I feel I need to thrive and be happy outside of my work.   I am a mom-to-be who is happily married to a great husband with a flexible work schedule due to his consulting business (and cooks!), and I have a fulfilling high powered career.      I guess I do live in the suburbs but we are just outside of NYC so it’s not like I’m far away from city life. Before getting married and then deciding to have kids, I thought long and hard about all the implications.   I certainly don’t want to be one of those unhappy moms that Stacy2 says are her friends, but I think if you pick the right husband/partner, have the means to support the family and some hired help, have your extended family around, then there’s no reason why you couldn’t have both a successful professional life and a family as well.   I know many female VPs and up who are very happy moms and grandmothers and they cite their family as one of their biggest successes and one of the reasons actually that they were able to be successful and give meaning to their careers as well.   I can’t help but wonder if these unhappy moms of Stacy2 really thought through whether they really should have taken on these roles, whether they have adequate support, how their life would change and whether they could handle it.   Some people really would be unhappy in which case they really shouldn’t do it.   In that respect, at least Stacy2 is self-aware enough to not do it herself and drag a kid through the same misery.   As to this suburban jungle I really think there’s really no need to be part of it if you don’t like it.   Just create a different environment for yourself and your family.   No reason why you can’t have your cake and eat it too.   Isn’t that what an empowered modern day woman is supposed to do?

    1. 25.1
      Barbara

      Marie

      It’s good to hear a different voice on these topics. You’re very fortunate that you have financial means and a strong support network. Sounds like you have the best of both worlds–a great family dynamic and a great career.

      No reason why you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Isn’t that what an empowered modern day woman is supposed to do?

      Essentially, I agree with you. It’s great that we live in a time when women and mothers have many more options than in the past.   I’d only add that your situation is not the reality for many young mothers, whether they are married or not. Still, it’s healthy for a young mother to have “Me” time and there are low-cost social support systems in place to help her do that.

      I think for the majority of career-minded women, those who are not upper middle class and above, while you can have it all as in a thriving young family and a career you love, you may not be able to have it all at the same time. Women like this may have to forestall career advancement in order to be the best parents they can be.

      This might mean not working outside of the home at all, or working part-time and thus ensuring that you won’t be promoted, or working at a dead-in job until your children are old enough for you to pursue continuing education that would open up better employment opportunities. Starting a home-based business is another possibility. In any case, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with delaying career gratification for the sake of your family since the pay off can be priceless–well-adjusted kids.  To everything there is a season.

  6. 26
    FG

    I can only smile smugly! I DID allude to the movie Spread where promiscuity is rampant. And where Ashton Kutcher plays the role of a gigolo slut loser.

    As to medical reasons for vaginoplasty and labiaplasty, yes, there are some. As to overuse, actually, usually NOT an issue, but as age kicks in, elasticity drops! And thus, it may be a factor. Simple fact. Not sure there is ANY reasoanble reason, outside of a religiously conservvative wedding, for hymen reconstruction. Save perhaps a desire to karaoke Madonna’s “Like A Virgin”, something the singer would barely remember if at all! Except for the lyrics 🙂

    All that said, no trolling is involved. But what  always comes back up to the surface is a state of denial. There may be a forward, vocal and apparent narrative with many of the gals herein, and they may actually have a judgmental and finger-pointing attitude in private. The usual comments rain about “how dare you decry a woman’s behavior” when it’s OK for a guy! Is it?

    The entire point boils down to being free. Undeniable. What you do with your freedom  has consequences.  And those are not always readily visible. How you (or I)  feel about it is of no consequence or pertinence. How it clashes with the narrative of your (or my) beliefs is also irrelevant. How one or the other person proves impervious to general (” most of the group population”)   statements is also moot.
    As a survey of college students delved into the aftershocks, if any, of NSA sex, or how both genders felt after the fact, only 20% of women (in THAT survey) had no regrets, no doubts, no emotional consequences. Of course, with continued repetition, such effects may dim over time. And we will not here explore the impact on attachment capacity, but there is one, and it is significant. What we’re missing, and that is still a daunting task over time, although some echoes are coming back on this and they’re not pretty, is the aftereffect 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

    It is quite possible that some of you ladies feel you can (and did) run amok with the boys (and/or others) and such had no lasting impact on your behavior. It might also be true in some cases. Or it may be imperceptible to you. Some  (men or women) have always treated their lovers as disposable, and that fact does not change over time. You see / feel / perceive it as normal. It is “your” normal. Some adults NEVER have a capacity for deep attachment.

    There are parallels in other areas of life. A Frenchman once mentioned that he felt that friendship within the English-speaking world was quite different than what it had been in France. Before an Americanization, or perhaps it is due to modernity, friendship was lifelong and stalwart (he felt or said). Nowadays, it seems disposable, light, and ditched when inconvenient. So beyond the gender debate, there may be a larger question: divisiveness and egotistical navel-gazing may have taken a toll on ALL of our relationships, gender-based or not.

      1. 26.1.1
        FG

        And feminists know they’re dead wrong, but have no way out? 🙂   And as women realize the extreme aspects and walk away, the ones remaining feel a wee bit disturbed? Also well documented.

        Given the treatment of an issue that is largely external to my self (not a typo), and given extensive research in the matter, think what you will! My ego is fine, thank you! Did you actually HAVE any arguments or sources disproving anything I wrote? Much more pertinent thn calling me a narcissist, which we all are, to some degree, unless afflicted by serious self-worth issues, and without going to extremes, which then becomes BPD. NPD or a mix thereof.

        As to the reference you provide, my relationships are doing fine. My colleagues do enjoy potables and meals in my company. Women are usually not distraught by my presence. “Usually” beccause if anyone, male or female, heaps on a bunch of bull, they will get called out on it!

        1. FG

          Excellent article. Might have used a little more in terms of references. It also could have delved more deeply on psychological aspects, but, fair enough!

          However, given its tenor, seemingly going in more or less the same direction as my thoughts, I fail to see  how it contradicts  my previous comments. I’m not a proponent of NSA or ONS sex, neither for women nor for men. Outside of an initial and more or less inevitable youthful “period of experimentation”.

        2. FG

          Afterthought: numbers, in my case, are not THAT revealing. Given mostly relationships (in years, 14 y steady, 7 y on/off, w intervening others,  3, 1,1,1,1, .25s and a slew of 0.08s), my ONS occurred early in life, and not necessarily because I was on the prowl. Once you find out a gal is using (powdering her nose), ditch! Insane? Next! Temperemental? Gone! Etc…

          Other criteria intervene over the years. Sometimes, it becomes a matter of “quite pleasant, but clearly not heading in the same direction”. At which point, both parties might still decide to tender benefits for a while. Temporary unattached attachment!

  7. 27
    Barbara

    I don’t know if it was regarding this article or another (I thought it was this one but I can’t find it) but a commenter mentioned that she’d met white men who said they won’t date black women because we’re argumentative.  That conclusion suggests that there is something wrong with black women that makes white men not want to date us. Sorry, I’m not buying it. Blacks don’t cause society’s race problem. Whites do. And when I refer to whites throughout this comment, I don’t mean all white people. But I do men most.

    Given that reality, I say the reason most white men don’t date black women is because, from the time we were brought to the Americas against our will, white men have had no problem having sex with us–for centuries, usually against our will–but haven’t wanted to accept that black people are fully human beings.

    This is because whites need to maintain the illusion of being superior to people of color in order to feel worthy. This refusal to accept people of color as equals is deeply related to the stigma that whites’ latent inferiority complex causes them to attach with dating black. The roots of whites’ latent inferiority complex comes from their unconscious realization–and subsequent shame and fear of retribution this realization causes–that their people have wreaked havoc on human civilization and the planet for centuries.

    Regarding the white stigmatization of dating black, here’s a message I received today on Match that illustrates it. I messaged him first, not because I wanted to date him, but because I get tired of this sh&t and sometimes I just feel like calling white men out on their hypocrisy:

    ME: You liked my photos but in your profile you exclude black women from your list of preferences. So did you not notice that I’m black? Or is it that you like looking at photos of black women but wouldn’t want to date one of us?

    HIM: Hello, yes I do like your photos. You are very beautiful and based on your profile I think you are positively different. Admittedly, I have never dated a black woman before, but I did not include your ethnicity, because of possible conflicts with friends and family with a long term relationship, but that is what I am interested in. Anyway, I am willing to exchange a couple emails and see if there is a desire to meet. After all, we are only talking about one part of the package, and your overall package is very appealing. Have you dated white guys before?
    ME: I’ve dated white men but I’d never date a man who allows his family and friends to prevent him from living his life as he wants to live it. I need a man who is at least as courageous and confident as I am. Good luck finding the type of woman you deserve.

     

    1. 27.1
      Barbara

      P.S. Only an extremely arrogant person would think a woman would want to date him after he basically told her he’d be ashamed to do so. “Arrogant”–from my point of view as a black person–it’s almost a synonym for “the average white male.”

    2. 27.2
      Karl R

      Barbara,

      First, I think your response to the guy on Match.com was a good way to handle the situation.

      Second, it’s been my experience that when one person rejects another (no matter who does the rejecting, or why) that it’s driven more by who the rejector is, not who the rejectee is. That’s true whether the rejection is over race, height, or any other reason.

      Third, I think you’re over-thinking the bigotry. It’s bigotry. For most people, they’re not bigots because of some unconscious reaction to something that happened long before they were born. They grew up around bigots (whether family or friends). It became their “normal”, and then they come up with weak excuses to rationalize the bigotry  later.

      1. 27.2.1
        Barbara

        Karl R

        I think you’re over-thinking the bigotry. It’s bigotry. For most people, they’re  not  bigots because of some unconscious reaction to something that happened long before they were born. They grew up around bigots (whether family or friends). It became  their  “normal”, and then they come up with weak excuses to rationalize the bigotry  later.
        Thanks for responding to my comment.

        As (presumably) a white male, with all the privileges and entitlements your simply being born white affords you, you’re just not in a position to even remotely have a grip on what I’m “overthinking” as a person of color when it comes to systemic racism. The fact that you even think you could understand my perspective as a black person to the point that you would use the word “overthinking” in relation to my comment is indicative of the effects of your privileged status.

        If you’re seriously interested in learning more about why I posted as I did, check out Peggy McIntosh’s seminal essay on white privilege. She’s white and came to awaken to the reality that being white in our world comes with unlimited perks that only white people get to receive every millisecond of their lives.
        http://www.intergroupresources.com/rc/knapsack.pdf

        1. Barbara

          Karl R

          See my reply below, posted in the wrong sequence.

    3. 27.3
      S.

      I need a man who is at least as courageous and confident as I am.

      Good for you, Barbara! I cheered out loud when I read this.   🙂 I would have just blocked and deleted.   I do believe that maybe he thought you’d be as curious as he was.   Like it’s some grand experiment when you’re looking for something real.

      My very first online date (wow, nearly five years ago) was with a white man who preferred Black women.   I was a bit leery of that and asked him why.   He said, and I’ll never forget this, that Black women were more straightforward and honest with him and he always knew where he stood.   I didn’t expect him to say that and it was rather refreshing.   Even Black men have never put it quite that way.   Perspective is so interesting.   Two different people can take similar actions and interpret them in so very different ways.   He and I weren’t a match, but I’m glad he was my first online date.

      It is still categorizing.   Women are different as men are different and it’s difficult to generalize.   I think the online dating man is different sometimes, than men you meet in real life.   But maybe women dating online are different too.   There is something rather pointed and not subtle about interest. So many men write (or tell me) about not wanting to waste their time.   I miss the subtle days and the days of courting.   Oh well.

    4. 27.4
      Kyra

      HIM: …Admittedly, I have never dated a black woman before, but I did not include your ethnicity, because of possible conflicts with friends and family…

      Barbara, you are a breath of fresh air and I co-sign everything you have written here. I experience this sort of thing in online dating on a near daily basis. I, a near 42-year old Black woman, has watched for nearly 12 years as my White, Asian and other friends dated and married while I remained consistently single and active in an online dating sphere of, majorly, White males who view me as an option for casual sex or racial/sexual experimentation, but not long-term commitment.

      I once had a White male ask me, point blank, “So, if we were to date, how would it go?” As in, the color of my skin being different than his would prevent us from doing things two people normally do in a relationship. He quite truly didn’t understand how one could have a “normal” relationship with a woman who is  Black. I truly don’t know what he expected…. like, I’d do an African tribal dance and sacrifice a goat or something on our second date. It was a perplexing question. I also don’t understand White men who  believe that family and friends would clash so drastically that a relationship wouldn’t be possible. Many Black families have White family members. Many Black people have White friends and acquaintances and co-workers. And, perhaps it’s the lack of such diversity within  their own family and friendships that is the crux of the matter. Black women are  not that different. We’re not from some far off planet. We’re people who connect to other people; we’ve gone to schools and universities just like you, we’ve had life experiences just like you. The inherent divisiveness  these White men imagine will automatically  exist in a relationship with a Black woman is something that has been conjured by  the news, media and television or their own stereotypical ignorance of who Black women are or how Black women act.
      I have links (not lists, because Zzzzzzzzzzzzz)  in my profile to my favorite television series, favorite movies, favorite music, and books I’m currently reading which clearly show I have varied interests with which any person of any race can easily  relate to. Yet and still, the first words out of most White men’s mouths (or, rather, fingers) online are about either my race or my body. I’m immediately racially objectified by  White men. I’ve, sadly, gotten used to it. Some questions are innocent: “Have you dated a White man before?” I understand they want to know if I would date them which, if they paid close enough attention to my profile, they’d know the answer to already. But, yet and still, in 2017, I think that question needs to be retired. If a woman isn’t interested in you, you’ll know. Your race may have something to do with it, but asking racial questions right off the bat is a practice a lot of men (of all races) need to cease.

       

      Questions like, “Have you ever been with  a White man before?” or “Hello there. I love chocolate” are the most common  ones I receive. And, let’s not even go into the problematic, casual racism in messages like: “Hi. Are you only African American or are you mixed or biracial? You’re very beautiful.” that I receive regularly. Because, you know, being just Black isn’t enough to actually make me beautiful.

       

      I’m also VERY busty and curvy and used to share  the same doubts and worries the OP has. I’ve removed body photos from my profile. I’ve attempted to dress down on dates (tying a jacket around my waist to hide my rather large backside or  covering my 40DDD breasts with scarves and bulky sweaters). None of it makes a difference, however.

       

      At some point I just started to lean into it all. If a man asks “Do you date white men?” or “Have you been with a white man?” I now respond with, “I date men.” or “I’ve been with men.” That generally gets the point across very quickly that I do not make my dating decisions based on race. If they make a reference to chocolate or hot chocolate and their love for it, I just tell them to go to the supermarket and buy some then. That tends communicate to them quite well that I will have none of their racial fetishization and don’t take kindly to being described as a food product.   If a man begins our initial conversations about my body or my race I respond with, “I have a strict ‘No talk about my race or body until the third date’ rule.” I’ve gotten a few chuckles and positive responses from that line. It shows that I’m  flirty, not so closed/defensive that I won’t engage in a discussion about things they may be curious about or aroused by, and that they have to get to know me a little and put in some work before being considered a man I share such things with. You can’t just come in my inbox looking  to discuss my Blackness or body for your personal jollies.

       

      When I used match.com (of which, I do not any longer) I also regularly, like Barbara, got likes, winks and messages from White men who left Black women off of the list of women they’d consider adequate matches. I would curtly send them  a message informing that I do not match their racial preference and wish them luck in their search. Many responded that I seemed “different” (we know what they mean by this) or that they would “make an exception for me.” I responded simply with silence. As one should.

  8. 28
    Lisa

    I don’t think you really addressed the full question.   She also asked what to do to get men to not just want to sleep with her.   So okay she posts pics as you described but once men get with her in person they get all sex stupid?   No matter what she wears short of a burlap sack?   It seems like if a woman is very attractive men can’t see past that.   In doing so though they never get to know her to assess compatibility because they are so focused on getting her into bed.   When I used to do online dating I had similar issues as this writer.   I would get lots of dates and many of the men would follow all your rules and I would hold out and some would work hard courting me, jewelry fancy dates, flowers and within a month of giving it up all the sudden they realized that we were not compatible.   Over and over again I would hear I just have realized I could never marry you we are not compatible and would list all the reasons why, but ended with if you want to keep having sex I’m cool with that.   But the things the men would point out were things they already new not that just came out after sex!   Finally after this happening one two many times I started asking the guys and every single one said the same thing.   I was so sexually attracted to you I never actually thought about if we were compatible.   I was working to get you into bed.   Once I did after a few times I realized I’d love to keep up the sex but did not really have much in common with you.   So I’m not sure what a woman is to do? The writer here I can guarantee is having a similar issue.

  9. 29
    Michelle

    So your recommendation for this woman who is only attracting men that want sex… is to be more sexy?   Your right, we should all just be sex toys for men and stop attending college at all because it’s actually a huge impediment to finding love when you are sexy AND smart.

  10. 30
    keke

    Dear Nay we’re in a dating apocalypse. I’m in my 40’s and 20 years ago did not see the kind of behavior that goes on now. This social media world has made everyone objects and if you don’t put out the next one will. I don’t know if you’re a Godly women but get involved in some church activities or singles ministries where there’s at least some knowledge of the Courting process. I truly feel for you in these times looking for something genuine.

  11. 31
    christiangreypua

    nice

  12. 32
    Irina

    It does not matter what your profile like. Most men are looking for 1 night stand and don’t even read it. Just write something that makes you feel good about yourself and reread it often. Change constantly. your goal is not to attract “bigger pool” but to find only one and most important – always feel good about yourself, in any place or situation.

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