Should You Send a Follow-up Email to Someone To Hasn’t Written You Back?

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Dear Evan

1. Should a person send a follow-up email to someone they have written to before and not heard from?
2: What do you think of expressing in one’s profile that you prefer emails to winks?

Thank you so much for your encouragement and help in our searches.

Ynez

Dear Ynez,

Allow me to answer your second question first, because it’s a lot quicker:

No. Don’t express in your profile that you prefer emails to winks. You wanna know why?

1) EVERYBODY prefers emails to winks. So, in essence, you’re saying something as clichéd as “I like to laugh” or “I want a man who’s honest.” It’s a pointless point, and is one that’s bound to be ignored.

2) The fact that he winks instead of taking the time to write to you speaks volumes about him. A wink says either that he’s lazy, he’s illiterate, or, more likely, that he’s winking at 50 people at a time to see who responds to him. He may actually be a decent guy — but he’s a decent guy who is pretty indiscriminate about the women he contacts. Proceed with caution.

3) I just think it’s in poor form to tell anyone what to do. “Nobody over the age of 40! No cheaters or liars! Nobody who has addiction issues!” Feel free to ignore anyone who doesn’t meet your criteria, Ynez – including your desire to be emailed — but please, don’t issue demands in your profile.

Next…

I have two (and maybe even three) answers to your query about sending a follow-up email. One set of rules applies to men, another applies to women. And yes, there’s a logical explanation for this double standard.

Women have the simpler answer. No, you shouldn’t send a follow-up email to a guy if he hasn’t written back. It’s not that it’s impossible that he was busy, or accidentally deleted your email, or had an emotional crisis that caused him to abandon dating for awhile. Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you eventually, without any additional prodding on your part.

Men are faced with a different dilemma. Why are there different rules for men and women? Because women — especially younger women — receive infinitely more emails than men. Think about it: If a guy is doing great, he might get ten emails — and can manage to respond to the three or four attractive women in his inbox. If a woman is doing great, she might get 50 emails, or 150 emails, or 400 emails. Which means that there are definitely some quality guys who don’t get through the first screening process

I remember meeting a woman on Match.com in 2002. We dated for six weeks and I remember asking her about her experience. She told me that she received over 500 emails in her first week. How many guys did she write back to? Five. That’s 495 guys who got silence in return for their emails. This reinforces why women are NOT obliged to write back polite rejection letters AND it reinforces why just because older men want attractive young women, they are unlikely to get a letter back. If she has 500 potential future spouses in the mix, why would she date a guy fifteen years older? She could date a guy that’s just as successful and kind, but closer to her age. And she usually will. Doesn’t mean she’s bad. Just means she has choices. See my blog post “As Valuable as Your Options” if this isn’t clear to you.

But back to my point. … When a man’s dealing with such a competitive atmosphere, he might take a shot at   writing a second or a third time. Plenty of women who are exasperated with the flood of emails delete their entire inbox just to keep things manageable. What they DON’T do, and probably should is HIDE THEIR PROFILES. But as much as the young women complain about all of the awful guys who write to them, they generally refuse to stem the tide by removing themselves or going without a picture. I wrote about this extensively in I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book and think that if your biggest problem is the volume of the “wrong men” writing, it’s really easy to fix. Take down your photo or profile and proactively contact men. Instead of spending half your day deleting profiles of men you’d never consider, you could be talking to one or two decent guys at once. Most women are not afflicted with this problem, but it is a real one, especially for the younger set.

Wait, what was your question again, Ynez? Oh, should you follow up with an email if you’ve been ignored? For you, as a woman, probably not. It wouldn’t cost much to try, but I don’t think the results will be that great. Men are looks-driven and I don’t know many who ignore someone who piques their interest. For men, it’s probably worth it to take a second shot a month down the road. But then again, there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.

Or, if you’re like most people, maybe you don’t.

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Comments:

  1. 21
    Henriette

    @Ashley20 – I’m not a guy but I can assure you that in online dating ~ just as in “real life dating” ~ it’s impossible to know what another person is thinking.   Maybe this correspondant didn’t like something you wrote; maybe he met someone (online or in real life) whom he found more appealing and decided to stop pursuing you in order to pursue her;   maybe he thought you were nice but not so wonderful that he wanted to continue to be in contact with you; maybe his mother just died…  
    We can’t know why a guy disappears with no warning but we CAN take this as a sign that he wasn’t the right person for us and keep moving on.

    1. 21.1
      Emma

      I met a guy at work around the same age as me and I’d say he makes me feel like he’s the guy up to my standards and gave me he’s email address I wrote to him and haven’t
      Heard from him
      And he was sure of himself to take/give me he’s number.

  2. 22
    Dekla

    I think all this is theorical bullshit and people, both men and women, try to follow some unwritten books of how to date or approach the other person online. There are no rules, except those that you create in your mind. If you like someone you approach whatever it is a her or his. The other person will go back to you anyway. On the other hand, this “I am the woman and the man should make the first move” is pure bullshit. Both men and women have become lazy in reaching the other, I do admit that women make it difficult because they want to look like sluts. Which is also bullshit because women want more sex than men sometimes. This social interactivity sicks me.

  3. 23
    JustMe

    Jenn #17
    Please…the majority of women on dating sites play nonstop with the men that contact them. Countless men initiate contact with women and they never receive a reply. Stop whining, get off your pedestal, and grow up.

  4. 24
    Blondie99

    As a female in her mid 30s who gets 30 plus emails per day I cannot imagine what younger women go through.   I do not want guys to email me a second time, particularly if they can see that I have looked at their profile and not responded. I see what Evan is saying about her maybe looking past you, but if I have looked at your profile and not responded I’m not interested.      If you must send a a follow up email please be polite and kind, and if I don’t respond let it go.   The follow up emails that I receive are, why are you not responding, attacking me for being rude, asking what is wrong with them, begging, pleading, asking if they are ugly, or why I am such a fill in the nasty word.       that’s creepy and is going to result in you being blocked immediately.   Guys please stop this!

  5. 25
    Grey

    Girls say you shouldn’t write again if you’ve already been ignored, and spin lies about why you shouldn’t.   They say this because they can’t handle the false messages, and guilt that comes with facing up to the fact that they essentially abuse men, and consider their life ‘choosing’ hard with little to no disregard about how many hours it takes an average, decent guy, just to get a single reply.   Again, they’ll try to tell you otherwise, but it can be easily proven by the fact many will fail to reply first time, but then reply to a disapproval followup message.

    Always follow up on your messages.   Here’s why:

    * So long as you’re not downright nasty in your second message, there’s no risk or downside in doing it.   You won’t get reported.   In fact, on PoF, girls have their accounts deleted if they falsely report people, because that’s not what the report mechanism is for.   I’ve never been deleted, and I do it every time.

    * On rare occasions, girls will terminate their accounts upon recieving enough follow-up messages, because they can’t handle the guilt of being confronted about it.   Seeing this is satisfying.

    * On OkCupid, you can contribute to overfilling a girl’s mailbox (300 message limit), so if she ignores a lot of people, she can’t waste as many other guys’ time.

    * It forces ignorant girls to go through the rigmarole of blocking pretty much every guy that has messaged them, if they want to avoid getting followups.

    * They always read what you put.   The funny thing is, whilst I don’t recommend being nasty, if you DO put something in there like that, you always touch a nerve.   They nearly always write back almost instantly (unlike when you first wrote), and aggressively, hoping to manipulate some apology from you that they can subsequently throw in your face.   A prime lie girls give for not responding is they’ve been ‘busy’, like they’re busier than you.   Being ‘lazy’ does not equate to being ‘busy’, and neither does lying about it!   Funny that they instantly ‘have time’ to write back to you once you write a second time too, isn’t it?

    * It gives a girl, who didn’t write back, a false message alert.   There’s something satisfying knowing they’re going to see it, or better still, get a junk e-mail alert about it.

    * It gives them more stuff to go through and delete.   Whilst you may think your contribution is small, the more guys that do this, it makes their job much harder.   Think your job’s hard choosing which guy to return your message to?   Oh, I feel so bad for you.   Think about how hard our job is.

    * You contribute to lowering the online nature of self-flattering girls by showing them that they make a lot of people unhappy.

    * On PoF, this method lets you see if you’ve stumbled on a type of girl who blocks everyone because they can’t handle the follow-up messages.   These girls have no hope of landing a decent guy because their general opinion is to be anti-male.

    * Girls on dating sites for long durations are always feminists.   They send out zero first-contact messages and only selectively reply to a few, saying there is ‘no time to reply to everyone’.   They get used to ignoring guys, and eventually get deluded that doing it to 99% of messages they get is ‘okay’.   There’s a difference between having ‘no time to reply to everyone’ and being ‘too lazy to reply to even 1%’.   The worst part is they start to even feel *good* about it because of the ego boost, forgetting practically every other girl gets the same interest level, so they’re not special at all.

    * Following up makes you feel better about being constantly ignored because there’s a great chance your followup message will be read and the person choosing to ignore people will understand how much they disappoint or annoy others.   You might think I’m bitter, but I can assure you that this definitely takes the edge off my bitterness, so when someone does reply, it’s more interesting 😀

  6. 26
    Sarah

    This mindset that “Men are looks-driven” is so outdated. Woman are also looks-driven and if you want to know why he hasn’t written ask. Then either continue the conversation or move on. Women in general need to stop over analyzing the small stuff and maybe just ‘think like a man” and approach the dating scene like a man: Know your purpose and take charge.  

  7. 27
    Brian

    This man doesn’t ignore any e-mail regardless of whether I am interested, or not.   It is just plain RUDE to not reply.

  8. 28
    Mark

    Question for the ladies out there.     In your opinion, should guys send a 2nd email if they get no response?

    My instinct is not to.   This makes you look desperate and lowers your self worth imo.   If they were into you they would have responded.   The reason I ask is because I agree with Evan- many women get flooded with emails.   I’ve heard some dates say it was overwhelming.

    I also think some women like the process of online dating more than the end result.   All of those emails has to pump up anyone’s ego.   The fear of missing out on new guys- what’s behind door # 2?   Door #3?   Not attacking- I’d probably feel the same if the role was reversed and I was flooded with 100 emails from women a day- one more beautiful than the next. That’s why I don’t put too much value on online dating- just using it as another avenue.   Even if you meet & go out a few times- it’s hard to keep the momentum going- with so much competition- & a 10-1 guy/gal ratio imo. i’d much rather meet someone offline, in person.

     

    (Background info- I’m in my 40’s, athletic build,   like to workout, showed my personality/sense of humor in my profile, live in the Chicago suburbs so there are a lot of choices for singles, & send personalized emails trying to mention something they said in their profile. I also focus on women near my age.)

    1. 28.1
      Emily, the original

      Mark,

        Question for the ladies out there.     In your opinion, should guys send a 2nd email if they get no response?  My instinct is not to.   This makes you look desperate and lowers your self worth imo.    

      You have no way of knowing how many other messages a woman is getting so you won’t know if yours got lost in all the others or if she is truly not responding. I’d say go ahead and send another message, but I’d wait a couple of weeks between the first and the second message and I wouldn’t reference the fact that you’d already contacted her. I wouldn’t say, “Why haven’t you responded?” Also, I wouldn’t wait too long to send another message … or it will look like you don’t remember contacting her the first time. (A friend of mine made reference to this when she was on match. She’d hear from guys months after the initial contact. “These guys don’t remember we’ve already talked.”)

    2. 28.2
      Clare

      Mark,

      I think yours is a fairly common misconception of the online dating experience for women, but it is a misconception nonetheless.

      Perhaps there is a small minority of women who just like the online dating process and all the attention, but I can assure you, for the majority, they would give all that up for a stable, secure relationship with a guy they liked.

      I’ve heard this so many times from me – because  they  imagine they would love all the attention and novelty and ego-boost from receiving so many e-mails and being pursued so much, they think women must love it too. This is a fallacy. Not only would men not love it as much as they think (it is overwhelming and downright icky much of the time), but being chased by hundreds of men whom they do not want or who are not suitable is not what women want at all. We are not wired to see this as flattering or desirable. For the most part, we want love, security and monogamy.

      Let me dispel another myth for you: If a woman is truly having a great time with you and feeling a connection, she is not thinking about what’s behind door #2 or 3. You’ll have far more success with women if you think of her as a human being with whom to cultivate a special and unique connection, rather than as swimming in a sea of competitors. You are not competing with those guys because the vast majority of them are non-starters.

      Finally, what Emily says is true. Not receiving a reply to your first e-mail does not necessarily mean she doesn’t like you. She doesn’t know you enough to like you or not. It can easily be that your e-mail got lost in a sea of other e-mails. It is worth it to send a follow-up, but like Emily said, give her a few weeks, and don’t sound butt-hurt not to have received a response to your first e-mail.

      1. 28.2.1
        Mark B

        Clare,

        I get what you’re saying.     And if you’re not attracted to the majority of emails coming in than I can see that being a misconception, especially when it comes to safety issues.   My understanding is that women still get a lot of emails from guys that they are attracted to- not every woman does but many do. I could be wrong, but that’s what I’ve heard.   Also people’s standards are much higher online imo.   I think many people think online dating is like Amazon- just place your order.   I’ve heard more than once from women that they would have never met their current boyfriend/husband online, but because they got to know him in the real world, they liked him, & slowly became attracted to him.   It takes time to get to know someone & build that attraction. It’s hard to build that momentum/connection in an hour over a drink or coffee, when people are constantly checking their emails right after a date.   And unfortunately   you don’t get more time to build it.   That’s my point.   You might get a date or two, but because they are getting bombarded with so many guys asking them out it hurts the momentum.   That’s why I prefer meeting in the real world over online dating.

        I always treat women as unique, special human beings.   However, that’s a two way street.   For us to have a connection they need to value me as a unique, special person too.

        I never send emails sounding ticked off.   I just send one intro email now, & then forget about it.   Hey, I just wanted some different viewpoints on the email thought process.   I appreciate the feedback from everyone.   Lastly, I respect everyone’s opinion on here even if we disagree on some stuff.

    3. 28.3
      Tom10

      @ Mark
      “  n your opinion, should guys send a 2nd email if they get no response?”
        
      I disagree with the ladies Mark; sending a second email after no response from the first one is pathetic. Grow some self-respect. Give potential daters one chance. Per Person. Per dater. Per Lifetime.
        
      Although I’m hardly “flooded” with emails I receive about a dozen or so daily whenever I turn on the apps; and I vaguely remember each and every dater who has ever emailed me. If I didn’t reply the first time it’s not because I was writing to 5 other women at the time and didn’t have the capacity; it’s because she didn’t cut the mustard. And so she won’t the next time either.
        
      Witnessing someone repeat email is just embarrassing.

      1. 28.3.1
        Emily, the original

        Thomas10,

        This woman could be receiving 12 messages a week like your or 100 a week. Mark has no way of knowing. Who cares if she receives 12 a week and thinks Mark is pathetic for sending another? She’s a stranger on a dating site. If she doesn’t like him … NEXT!   And as men always point out on this site, you have to create the opportunity.

        1. Tom10

          @ Emily, the original 28.3.1
          “Who cares if she receives 12 a week and thinks Mark is pathetic for sending another? She’s a stranger on a dating site. If she doesn’t like him … NEXT!   And as men always point out on this site, you have to  create  the opportunity.”
            
          Agreed; her opinion of Mark isn’t all that relevant — as you say she’s a stranger — however, it’s Mark’s opinion of Mark that’s relevant. My opinion is that the most successful mindset in dating is one of abundance; to know that you’re the bomb. She doesn’t like me enough to reply? No probs; her loss. Going back again after a rejection is a fundamental departure from this mindset into scarcity (i.e. chump) territory.
            
          Additionally, all the guys online who keep mass emailing the same women are just exacerbating the problem for everyone else. The lucky hot 20% of women are so swamped with emails (from all those chumps repeat emailing) that they never have to make an effort and treat men as disposable. Consequentially, the unlucky not-hot women are relatively ignored and the chumps are embittered.

        2. Emily, the original

          Tom10,

          Going back again after a rejection is a fundamental departure from this mindset into scarcity (i.e. chump) territory

          You haven’t been rejected if she didn’t even read the email. Your mindset of abundance is fine if it’s applicable, but in this case it’s not. She can’t reject what doesn’t even hit her radar screen. I’m not suggesting mass emailing over and over. It’s a SECOND email. Not a tenth. If he had met her in person or even corresponded with her briefly, it’d be different. But as I said to Mark, you’re having “pride” or “self-respect” where it’s not even necessary. Save it for women who you’ve actually interacted with.

  9. 29
    Mark B

    Tom,

    I agree with you.   I only send 1 email.   And that’s for the exact reason you mentioned- my self respect.   I don’t beg for dates. I figure if they like me they’ll respond.

    I asked because I wanted to hear women’s viewpoints, like Emily’s, on here too though. I like to know what women are thinking and why they feel the way they do, which is why I like blogs like Evan’s.

    Emily & Tom, I appreciate the feedback.

    1. 29.1
      Emily, the original

      Mark B,

      Did you read the blog entry? The woman Evan was dating received 500 messages in her first week. Yes, yours will get lost in that deluge. So send another message. In that atmosphere, you have to be jumping off pianos. You’re not begging, you’re trying to break through. And why would you care about your self-respect with a complete stranger? You’re fighting a battle but you’re the only one on the field. She doesn’t even know you yet. As Evan wrote, some women get so many messages, they routinely delete all the those in the inbox.  Now, if you had met this woman for a drink and afterward sent her an email and she didn’t respond, then, yes, don’t send another. That would be too much.

      1. 29.1.1
        Clare

        Emily,

        Your posts really make me laugh, and I agree with you completely.

        To Mark and Tom,

        I have  personally  gone on dates with men who bothered to send me a follow-up email. In all cases, I had been too busy to read their initial email or profile. The follow-up was just that extra nudge to go and take another look.

        If someone emailed me repeatedly without a response, then  yes, that is uncalled for. To worry about your self-respect when sending a  second  (not a tenth) email to someone who does not even know you is ridiculous.

        1. Emily, the original

          Clare,

          Your posts really make me laugh,

          I’m glad.

          To worry about your self-respect when sending a  second  (not a tenth) email to someone who does not even know you is ridiculous.

          Exactly. The guy who emailed you once can sit in his corner with his pride while the other guy who emailed you twice got a date. 🙂 To quote Charlie Sheen, who’s “winning”?

        2. Tom10

          @ Emily, original
          “The guy who emailed you once can sit in his corner with his pride while the other guy who emailed you twice got a date.  To quote Charlie Sheen, who’s “winning”?”
            
          Well he doesn’t face a binary choice between sitting in a corner and having to email Clare twice for one date; rather he can simply go on date with another woman who answered him the first time. Who’s winning? They all are I guess.
            
          But we’ve made our points Emily and I always respect your opinion so I’ll back down first and soften up a bit on my stance. I’m really struggling to let go of my “my way or the highway” mindset, but I must… 🙁

        3. Yet Another Guy

          @Tom10

          Well he doesn’t face a binary choice between sitting in a corner and having to email Clare twice for one date; rather he can simply go on date with another woman who answered him the first time.

          I concur! No woman on a dating site is worth a follow up message if she failed to respond to a genuine attempt to establish a conversation. I not talking about a wink or a “Hey beautiful” message.   I am talking about a message that demonstrates that a guy took the time to actually read a woman’s profile and craft a targeted message. A failure to respond to genuine first message is usually indicative of a woman who believed that she had one or more better offers at the time she received a man’s message. That was her prerogative. My prerogative and that of any self-respecting man is to continue to search for a woman who values my time as much as I value hers.   I would go as far as to give a woman a set number of days to respond before breaking off communications. Just as women avoid serial daters, a man should never allow himself to be placed in a woman’s man queue. Adopting an abundance mindset is one of the best things that a man can do to improve his love life.   Women respect men who value their own time.

        4. Emily, the original

          Tom10,

          But we’ve made our points Emily and I always respect your opinion so I’ll back down first and soften up a bit on my stance. I’m really struggling to let go of my “my way or the highway” mindset, but I must…  

          Ok, Mr. Tom. I’ll back down, too. I guess it depends on how badly you want to connect with a particular woman. I think it’s pretty difficult to tell much from a profile other than maybe if someone is aesthetically appealing or can write engagingly. It also depends on how many attractive women are online and the responses a man is getting. If you live in a small town, maybe there aren’t that many babes to contact   ??   🙂

        5. Mark B

          Clare, Emily,

          First of all I love this topic and hearing everyone’s opinions.   This is great.

          Just to clarify- I don’t worry about my self respect.   I value it- because if I don’t value myself no one else will.   Not to be a tool, but I think I’m a catch.   And that’s the mindset you need to have.   I don’t want to twist someone’s arm to see me- I want them to be stoked to go out with me. My self worth is more important than any dating/email bs.

          I’m on Match.   In the past I used to justify why they didn’t respond (maybe they’re busy, didn’t read it, out of town, etc.), but that was wrong.   It was a waste of time and energy.   I think women get like 30 days to read emails before they get deleted.   And those emails get highlighted before they get deleted as well.   Women also have the option of hiding their profile.   In fact that just happened to me- a gal responded to me then her profile went hidden.   Her profile seemed like a real profile too not a fake one. So obviously she was interested, but she was interested in other guys also for some strange reason haha! And she hasn’t responded after I asked when she’s free to meet. Anyway she closed it off from new suitors.   So women have the option to do that- (hide their profile if they get too many emails) it’s actually pretty simple to do that.   I mean and it’s not like I’m sending rude emails saying you’re hot or long winded emails- they’re literally like 2 or 3 sentences.   If she won’t make time to respond to a personalized email of 2 or 3 sentences- than, from where I’m sitting, it’s like okay, well I’m moving on.   I don’t think about her.   I don’t dwell on it. I’ll just ask someone else.

          I guess I already had my mind made up, but I still appreciated hearing your responses.

        6. Emily, the original

          Mark,  

          If she won’t make time to respond to a personalized email of 2 or 3 sentences- than, from where I’m sitting, it’s like okay, well I’m moving on.   I don’t think about her.   I don’t dwell on it. I’ll just ask someone else.

          I’m probably looking at it from my own perspective. I don’t know where you live but I just moved to a small town in the South, where I think everyone marries by 16. But if you live in a big city or on the East Coast and you’re (obviously) a man, the odds are in your favor so bring on the next babe.     🙂

  10. 30
    Marika

    Tom

    That’s a very extreme position and a great example of black & white thinking. You’re dealing with humans, who are busy, get distracted, have stuff going on..I’ve had guys assume all sorts of (incorrect) things about me and my level of interest because I didn’t act exactly on their schedule. I’m not saying you should chase someone down for a date endlessly, but the stuff you said…woah! People get one chance only in your world??

    Also, embarrassing and pathetic is in your own head. Sending multiple emails over and over, hassling someone who says no, sure, but two brief emails if you really like the look of a woman is neither embarrassing nor pathetic.

    1. 30.1
      Tom10

      @ Marika 31
      “You’re dealing with humans, who are busy, get distracted, have stuff going on..I’ve had guys assume all sorts of (incorrect) things about me and my level of interest because I didn’t act exactly on their schedule.”
        
      Maybe, but highly unlikely. It’s statistically wiser to assume the other party wasn’t interested. Read Evan’s answer above:
        
      “You shouldn’t send a follow-up email to a guy if he hasn’t written back. It’s not that it’s impossible that he was busy, or accidentally deleted your email, or had an emotional crisis that caused him to abandon dating for awhile. Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you”

      So okay, you might have been busy Marika, but 99 times out of 100 that’s not the reason someone doesn’t reply; rather it’s that they’re simply not interested…enough, to reply. Therefore, statistically, is it wiser for me to operate as if that person is in the 99% group or the 1% group? The former of course.
        
      Additionally, as there is an endless amount of people to contact in the world why would anyone email the same person a second time when there are millions of others who would be more than happy to reply the first time? It displays a scarcity mindset which is unattractive.

      “I’m not saying you should chase someone down for a date endlessly, but the stuff you said…woah! People get one chance only in your world??”
        
      Right. One chance; and if you’re their dream catch they’ll make sure not to mess it up. The way I see it is people display most interest and are on their best behavior at the very beginning of relationships; if they can’t display appropriate behavior and interest at that point then are odds they certainly won’t in the future either. You’re confusing black and white thinking with boundaries. More flexibity can come further down the line.
        
      “Also, embarrassing and pathetic is in your own head.”
        
      Hmmm, maybe.
        
      I tend to get repeat email from two types:
        
      –                   Type 1 sends the cursory “hi” or “hey there” over and over. Does anyone actually reply to those emails? Obviously they’re mass-sending them to everyone and just seeing who bites. Then they forget who they sent previous emails to. Have they no discrimination at all? Just ewww.
      –                   Type 2 reads my profile and sends a more comprehensive email. Then a few months later they send another similar one, ether forgetting that I didn’t reply the first time or hoping that I’ll have a change of heart maybe?
        
      Either way I’m embarrassed for them. Perhaps the tone of my original comment was a bit harsh (bad day at the office) but I stand by it’s essence.

      1. 30.1.1
        Emily, the original

        Tom10,

        Rather, it’s that, 99 times out of 100, a guy who doesn’t write back to you is a guy who isn’t attracted to you. If he is attracted to you but is dating other people, he’ll get back to you”

        Did you read this, Tom? A guy doesn’t write back because he’s getting a handful of emails and he remembers every one. A woman may receive 3 or 4 times that many. Maybe more. And even if she’s not and she does remember him … WHO CARES? It’s an email to a stranger in the virtual world.

        Either way I’m embarrassed for them.  

        That’s wasted energy. Save if for real dating embarrassment. You’re too touchy about this stuff.

      2. 30.1.2
        Marika

        It seems your mind is made up, Tom and that’s cool. But if you read Evan’s response properly, he has two sets of rules, one for men and one for women. For the simple reason that most women get infinitely more emails than men. Unfair, probably, but true. Even for a popular guy like yourself it’s true.

        I can honestly say there are multiple, multiple emails I never even saw. The guy is asking for women’s opinions, and I can guarantee the only time I’d be ’embarrassed’ for a guy is if he wrote over and over and wouldn’t let up. If he wrote twice, depending on how busy I was at the time, it’s likely I wouldn’t even notice it was twice. Or only briefly register it.

        This is not high school or a popularity contest. I’d like to think we’re slightly more mature than that. I’d also say if a woman labels you as ‘pathetic’ for a simple follow up, she’s probably not the nicest person or best relationship prospect (too picky & judgy).

      3. 30.1.3
        Tom10

        @ Emily, the original 31.1.1
        “A  guy  doesn’t write back because he’s getting a handful of emails and he remembers every one. A woman may receive 3 or 4 times that many. Maybe more.”  
          
        @ Marika 31.1.2
        “if you read Evan’s response properly, he has two sets of rules, one for men and one for women”
          
        Whereas Evan did acknowledge that the rules are different for men and women online due to the aforementioned volume differential, he still questioned the wisdom of writing to the same women a second time:
          
        “For men, it’s probably worth it to take a second shot a month down the road. But then again, there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.”
          
        So his two sets of rules actually…aren’t that different after all.
          
        “I’d also say if a woman labels you as ‘pathetic’ for a simple follow up, she’s probably not the nicest person or best relationship prospect (too picky & judgy).”
          
        Hmm.
          
        Actions speak louder than words. No woman is going to verbally label someone as pathetic for sending an email; she’ll just ignore the message…again.
          
        Maybe we need the input of a guy who had some success on a second email? I’d say we’ll be waiting a while…

        1. shaukat

          I’ve never emailed a woman twice, though there was one incident when, after reactivating my account on a site, I received a response from a woman who I had messaged two years earlier. When I playfully brought the delayed response to her attention, she replied stating that she didn’t even notice it was two years old  and must have missed it the first time around, adding that she  thought I had just sent it. We ended up going on a few dates.I bring it up because it provides some indirect evidence supporting what the ladies here are saying, that some messages might fall through the cracks initially, though it’s probably rare. I suppose Tom would have simply told her that she missed her shot two years ago;)

        2. Tom10

          @ Shaukat
          “I suppose  Tom  would have simply told her that she missed her shot two years ago;)”
            
          Hahaha; you snooze you lose sucker. Jus’ kiddin’
            
          “I received a response from a woman who I had messaged two years earlier.  We ended up going on a few dates”
            
          Do you mind me asking why the few dates fizzled out Shaukat?

        3. shaukat

          @TomDo you mind me asking why the few dates fizzled out?Not at all. Standard no real romantic connection/chemistry, I think it was mutual. If you’re asking whether there was a correlation between the delayed response and the outcome, I doubt it.  Also, no need to change your ways if what you’re doing is working, you’re right, abundance mentality is a good thing. Plus I never thought about your argument regarding how sending multiple messages might skew the dating market further, way to think about the broader community, ha!  

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Tom10

          Maybe we need the input of a guy who had some success on a second email? I’d say we’ll be waiting a while…

          A funny thing happened to me not long ago. I re-wrote a woman with whom I had had an earlier conversation; however, I had forgotten that we had had the conversation.   It is an awkward moment when a woman asks if you remember the earlier conversation and you draw a blank.

          That is life for men on the dating sites.   Women complain about being inundated with messages, most of which fall into the “Hi beautiful” category, but online dating is a hardcore numbers game for men. I write two women for every woman who replies.   I exchange messages with five women for every woman I advance to the telephone conversation stage.   I hold telephone conversations with around three women for every woman that I agree to meet. Online dating is like having a second full-time job for a man.

  11. 31
    Marika

    LOTS of emails fall through the cracks guys. Message a woman twice, don’t, whatever, but please don’t take it so personally (for your own good).

    You just don’t get what it’s like to be a woman online dater. I’m certainly not complaining that we get a lot of messages, I’m just stating a fact.

  12. 32
    Marika

    “Bring on the next babe”. Haha, Emily ☺

    I think an abundance mentality is a good idea. But I personally don’t think ‘no second chances’ is an abundance mentality, as it comes from a place of fear. Particularly the way it’s been expressed by a couple of the guys here.

    I don’t pretend to know the challenges of online dating for men…but I do know I’ve been given, and give others, second chances. It feels nice. Because we’re all human.

    ‘No second chances’ doesn’t come across as high value & impressive to me; it comes across as cold & unreasonable.

    1. 32.1
      Emily, the original

      Marika,

      ‘No second chances’ doesn’t come across as high value & impressive to me; it comes across as cold & unreasonable.

      Yeah, I agree. Also, a bit egoistic. She probably didn’t even see the email. It’s like that great line in a Sting song about fighting a battle he’d invented inside his own head.

      1. 32.1.1
        Mark B

        I’m not sure about other sites, but on Match you can get the email read notification feature.   It shows both, if and when, an email was read.   I think it’s worth it.   It leaves no doubt.   Well she read the message that I’m interested- the ball is in her court now.   And as a guy- that’s all you can do imo.   It, however, doesn’t show if someone deleted the email you sent them.

        1. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          I’m not sure about other sites, but on Match you can get the email read notification feature.   It shows both, if and when, an email was read.   I think it’s worth it.   It leaves no doubt.    

          I agree. That leaves no doubt. There’d be no reason to send another email.

          The men who responded to your question   mentioned self-respect … my friend went out once with a guy on Match and found out he was into BDSM. She told him it wasn’t her thing and they parted on (what she thought) were good terms. A month later he sent her an email about how much he was enjoying his new girlfriend. Now, that’s a   lack of self-respect and so transparent. That’s “chump” behavior. Big difference between that and sending a second email to a stranger if you’re not sure she read the first one.

        2. Mark B

          Emily,

          Yeah I agree on both counts.   I”m not into BDSM either.   And that’s shows a lack of class to email someone after you’ve parted ways on good terms.   If his current girlfriend is so great why is he sending your friend an email then?   If he’s even seeing anyone, which I doubt.   That’s someone who isn’t confident in himself and felt the need to do something.

          One of my pet peeves is when I’m ghosted after I’ve met a gal.   That’s also a lack of class.   I never do it, but I’m sure some guys ghost women just like some women ghost guys.   Now, if I’ve only sent an intro email and we’ve never met, than that’s different.   I don’t expect, or honestly, even want a response if they’re not interested.   However, some guys feel the opposite and want the rejection email. Not me- I don’t.   I only want women interested in me to email me.   That way when I open up an email from someone I’ve contacted it’s like oh cool- she feels the same.   The truth is I send out a lot of emails, I personalize them for each woman, but still send out a lot and have probably forgotten who I’ve sent my messages to 5 minutes after I’ve sent them.

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move.   And it doesn’t tick me off because she’s not interested, but rather the way she communicates that message.   I’ll email/text her to I could care less if she wants to see me again, just be straight up with me in a cool way. We met, I bought you a drink or an appetizer, I don’t think sending a quick email or text back to me is asking too much.   Of course that’s a whole different topic and can of worms.   I don’t want to go off on a tangent.

        3. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move.   And it doesn’t tick me off because she’s not interested, but rather the way she communicates that message.   I’ll email/text her to I could care less if she wants to see me again, just be straight up with me in a cool way.

          I actually think you do care if you are sending another email or text to scold her for not responding. That’s kind of up in the league of Mr. BDSM. And my friend went out with him only once, but she’s a cool lady and she told him it just wasn’t her thing. She didn’t shame him or act all grossed out.

            We met, I bought you a drink or an appetizer, I don’t think sending a quick email or text back to me is asking too much.

          I agree. There is a person on the other end of that request, and it takes all of a minute to respond. You don’t learn about someone in how he/she responds to someone he/she likes but in how she/responds to someone he/she doesn’t like. It’s called character.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Mark B

          However, if we’ve met and I’m asking her out again, and don’t hear back that’s incredibly rude and ticks me off. And I’ll let them know it’s a bush league move.  

          Asking a woman out via e-mail or text is a bush league move.

        5. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Asking a woman out via e-mail or text is a bush league move.

          Yeah, better to show up at her house holding a boombox over your head.

        6. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Call me old-fashioned, but asking a woman out on a date should be done in person or at least via a telephone call. Texting and other forms of messaging scream, “I am a low effort man!”

          I was curious as to why a particularly attractive and successful 37-year-old woman wanted to meet me. I was shocked by her answer, and that was “Your generation was the last generation of men who were taught how to properly court a woman. Men my age only want to hang out and hookup.”   Therein lies the reason why some thirty-something women date fifty-something men.   They want a man who was taught how to properly court a woman by parents who married when traditional gender roles where the norm.   I have to agree with her assessment because most younger men are absolutely clueless when it comes to courtship.

        7. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Call me old-fashioned

          That’s the first adjective that comes to mind when I think of you.

          I was curious as to why a particularly attractive and successful 37-year-old woman wanted to meet me. I was shocked by her answer, and that was “Your generation was the last generation of men who were taught how to properly court a woman.”  

          Actually, that’s not true. I’ve lived in the South for years. Southern men, as a whole, are taught to be gracious with women. I went to get a tire fixed together. The door was held for me by a young man. At my previous job, I could be carrying a pencil, and some guy would bolt up from what he was doing and get the door for me.

        8. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Actually, that’s not true. I’ve lived in the South for years. Southern men, as a whole, are taught to be gracious with women.

          I will not disagree with you on the American South.   They hold on to a lot of good while also holding on to a lot of bad.   However, few people would argue that the American South is not an anachronism.

        9. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          That’s the first adjective that comes to mind when I think of you.

          I have no problem with being thought of as that way.   I was raised by parents who married back when there were traditional gender roles.   When it comes to selecting a lover, women my age prefer men like me to a modern feminist man. I get what I desire. Those guys get the LJBBFF (let’s just be best friends forever) talk.

        10. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          I will not disagree with you on the American South.   They hold on to a lot of good while also holding on to a lot of bad.   However, few people would argue that the American South is not an anachronism.

          The way the Souths thinks is about 30 years behind the rest of the country, but a woman can’t have everything. How much she values certain qualities in a man will vary depending on the woman, but if he’s holding the door, if he’s a take charge tcber, that may ding her bell emotionally because she feels taken care of. If she’s lucky, she may also be attracted to him. With all of that, she may be ok not being able to talk about the Stephen Colbert show.

          I have no problem with being thought of as that way.

          You are not old-fashioned. You have no interest in a committed relationship, you carry on multiple sexual relationships at any given time and you employ push-pull techniques to keep a woman “on her toes and interested.” That sounds pretty modern to me.

      2. 32.1.2
        Mark B

        Yet Another Guy,

        Dude chill.   When I contact someone online after we’ve met it’s always by phone first.   However, if they don’t pick up then I leave a message.   Still no response I text them.

         

        Emily,

        I really don’t care if she says yes or no for a 2nd date after we’ve met.   After only 1 date- & really it’s more like a mini date meeting for a drink.    I do care about being ghosted after we’ve met on my dime.   That’s rude.   I don’t ghost women and I expect the same respect in return. If they do that to me- I let them know that’s a bs move. All it take is one sentence saying thanks, I had fun, but I’m not feeling it works.

        That’s nowhere close to the same league as the BDSM guy your friend dated because your friend told him she wasn’t interested & left things on good terms which was the right way for her to handle it imo.   He wasn’t ghosted after they went out. Totally different situation.

        1. Emily, the original

          Mark B.,

          I do care about being ghosted after we’ve met  on my dime.   That’s rude.   I don’t ghost women and I expect the same respect in return.

          Well, you really can’t expect anything, though. You don’t know these women. They are virtual strangers. You’ve met them once, for an hour. I agree that it’s rude, but it’s really not your place to scold them. It doesn’t matter that you’re in the right. It comes off like the person really got under your skin. A confident person doesn’t care doesn’t do anything.  A person who doesn’t care would think “her loss” and move on.

        2. Emily, the original

          Mark B.,

          I was just thinking: Here’s an example. Years ago I worked for a woman I didn’t particularly care for. I came into work one day and there was an email from a co-worker (who was at my exact level) telling me I should be grateful to our boss and needed to change my attitude. It really ticked me off. He came into the office as I was reading it and looked at me sheepishly. He was uncomfortable, and I didn’t say a word or respond to the email, which left him to squirm a little bit. He didn’t Know what I was going to do. I could have taken the email to her or to HR. It wasn’t his place to send that to me, but doing nothing was much more effective. It read: I don’t care enough to type out a few sentences and hit reply on an email.

        3. Mark B

          Emily,

          The thing is at that point I really didn’t care what these women thought.   Whether they think I’m confident or not.   That said, confident men also stand up to women and don’t let them feed them some bs.   They call them out on it.   I don’t want to date someone like that.   And it is her loss. I dodge a bullet when those “winners” turn me down. If they don’t want to be scolded then act like an adult & return my message.   That’s what adults do.   Like I said it’s literally 1 sentence- not much.   They want to act like an arrogant little brat too time strapped ti=o do that then I’ll treat them like one.   They were rude- so I’ll be rude back & let them know what I thought of the way they handled it.   Then I move on. I don’t feel bad for what I said.   Hey, they made their bed, not me, they can deal with it.   Then I head to the gym for a good workout- & focus on women who act like adults & have class.

          I don’t expect much online, but I expect a hell of a lot better treatment than that.   People, both women & men(from what I’ve read), treat others lousier online than offline.   That’s how I feel.   I live by the Golden Rule.

           

           

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Mark B

          Fair enough

        5. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

          Ok. I’m sure she’s thinking she dodged a bullet when she gets your scolding message. But we’re at a stalemate here.

        6. Clare

          Mark,

          I really have to wonder what you feel you have to gain by scolding a woman who has ghosted you. To me, it just seems like a complete waste of energy.

          If you don’t care about her at this point and have already made the decision to move on, why expend the energy to tell her off? This action is not benefiting you in any way. It is certainly not going to make her turn around and change her mind. And if you are hoping it will make her think twice about doing it in future… well, I can only say that wording your feelings in a calm and reasonable way will be much more effective than scolding.

          Hey, I get it that it sucks to be ghosted. It’s happened to all of us at some point or other. But true abundance mentality doesn’t waste energy on resenting people like that. And as for wasting energy  expecting certain behaviour from people you hardly know… how’s that working out for you? Eh, personally, I’d rather spend the energy taking myself out for a beer with a friend.

        7. Gala

          @Mark B

          Actually, your “scolding” reveals more about your character/personality than you may realize… and it is not a positive. There’s something incredibly petty, passive aggressive and IMO unmanly about it. As if you’re so bothered or starved for attention that you’re trying to elicit any response at all. I would steer clear from anyone who feels that they need to demand respect. But then again, by the time you do that these women have already rejected you, so you know what happens when they get these messages? They forward it to all of their girlfriends with the comment “what a nutjob” and that’s that

        8. Emily, the original

          Gala,

            so you know what happens when they get these messages? They forward it to all of their girlfriends with the comment “what a nutjob” and that’s that

          Or it winds up on the internet somewhere like the guy who did the Excel spreadsheet about his sex life. Best just to let it go. You can’t force people to respond to you in the way you want them to.

        9. Mark B

          Gala,

          I was out of town for a week and I come back to see you’re comment.   You’re WAY out of line with your comment.   If you disagree with me that’s cool- just say Mark I see it differently. Emily disagrees with me that’s fine.

          Calling me starved for attention trying to illicit any response, a nutjob and defending people (both men & women) who ghost as being polite is WAY out of bounds.   So you and your friends wouldn’t go out with me.   I’m heartbroken (sarcasm intended).   Get over yourself.   This is why I’m not a fan of online dating.   People develop such an attitude and an inflated ego- it makes them incredibly unattractive no matter how physically appealing they might be.

          All I’m saying is treat others the way you’d like to be treated.   That goes equally for both men and women.   And not just in dating but in life.   I think it’s a good rule to live by.   That’s it.   That’s all I’m saying.   It’s really not that difficult.   You’re acting like I’m asking them to part the Red Sea for God’s sake.

        10. Mark B

          Emily,
          You know, I really don’t care for the she thinks she dodged a bullet comment directed at me from you, but whatever. All I was saying was treat others the way you’d want to be treated- period. If you folks can’t grasp that concept I don’t know what to tell you. How that point got lost on here is beyond me. Yeah we’re at a stalemate.

        11. Emily, the original

          Mark B,

            If you folks can’t grasp that concept I don’t know what to tell you. How that point got lost on here is beyond me.

          And it’s beyond me why you can’t grasp that sending a woman a scolding email after a woman doesn’t respond to you is childish and says far more about you than it does about her. It’s over the top. You can’t control how others treat you. Let it go.

        12. Mark B

          Emily,

          You and some of the other women on here are acting like you know me.   You don’t.   Sometimes I sent those texts sometimes I don’t.   And who cares what those women think about me.   You’re acting like I value their opinion.   I don’t.   I care about what my family and friends think about me. Not everyone in this world is going to like you. I’m talking about common courtesy and respect towards one another which most people develop as adults.   You don’t know that my ex-girlfriend got leukemia, lost her hair to chemo and that I encouraged her to keep fighting by eating fish and drinking green tea rich in antioxidents to try and save her life- (she hated fish but then ended up liking it) You don’t know that my dad got cancer and that I cared for him full time by myself until after he passed away.   You don’t know me.   You and some of the other folks on here just think you do or that the women I’ve met can figure me out in 5 minutes over a drink.   It takes time for people to get to know each other and for attraction to develop.   People who ghost are WRONG period. Wedding Crashers- Rule #76- No excuses- play like a champion!   The only ones being rude and childish are them. Act like an adult already!   They’re not worthy of anyone’s time or respect including mine.   I have no respect for them or anyone who believes that’s a decent way to treat people whatsoever.   There is such a double standard on here in dating you can’t even see the hypocrisy.   Guys are expected to take time to personalize emails, make them creative, etc. to each woman (which I do by the way) only to have a rather low success rate. And then if guys do meet women on their dime by the way, many of those women are “too busy” to respond to a 2nd or 3rd date request if they’re not interested.   A one sentence text is all it takes.   Wow what a prize those women are.   Truly a gift sent from heaven for “some lucky guy” (sarcasm intended)   aka poor sap.

          There is a clear undercurrent on this board by some of the followers against guys. Whatever we say is wrong and whatever women do is fine- poor things.   You’re defending their actions no matter what they do.   It’s unreal!   Give me a break.   This is the kind of bs you get with online dating and why I don’t give it much weight anymore.   These kind of warped discussions.     Evan is right online dating is another avenue to pursue for singles, but imo it’s not the best avenue because many, (not all) women who act like this.   I met my ex-girlfriend online and she was the exception.   She is the reason I give it another shot.   She was worth it. I’m sure there are others, but the majority of the women online have that kind of snobby attitude and they’re garbage to me.   Instead of being flattered at being asked out for a 2nd or 3rd date they treat people like dirt when they reject guys by ghosting them because of all the attention they get online.   It inflates their ego way past realistic levels. I’m talking women in their 30’s 40’s attractive fit,but not models.   Those kind of women who have that attitude I don’t like, I don’t miss, and I sure as hell don’t respect.   They don’t respect me why should I respect them?   And if the guy they pick ends up cheating on them or treating them like crap- good.   That’s what they deserve.   I don;t feel sorry for them   I really don’t.   You really need to get a clue on how to treat people, not just in dating, but in all facets of life. If you can’t see other people’s points of view you’re going to have a difficult time in dating and in life no matter who you end up dating or what you end up doing.

        13. shaukat

          Mark,  I’m with the ladies on this. Calling a woman (or a man) out for ghosting really accomplishes nothing. It has nothing to do with your character, I’m simply saying it won’t make much of a difference-she really will just laugh at you with her friends. Here’s a better idea: You don’t like getting ghosted after paying for a date? Stop paying for first dates. Escalate sexually quickly when you first meet her, especially if it’s online, and don’t get too attached. Everyone has their finger (or rather thumb) on the app trigger these days, so point in getting upset. Adapt. Abundance mentality.  

        14. Mark B

          Everyone on here is attacking the way I sometimes react.   I really could care less.   If i want to react that way I will.   Out of all these posts I haven’t heard one post, not one on why ghosting someone is a cool or decent thing to do to others (whether it’s to men or women) unless they’re a complete jerk on the date.   That’s the only excuse I’ll accept.    Not one post.   What are there like 40 or 50 comments on here?   When you guys think of one- let me know.   Until then I have no respect for anyone who thinks that’s a cool or decent thing to do to others- period. You’re ignoring them, you’re keeping them in the dark, and once they figure it out you’re acting like you’re so much better than them that you won’t even acknowledge their phone or text message.   It’s a d-bag move.   That’s what it is and everyone on here in their heart knows it.   And d-bags are not worth my or anyone’s, for that matter, time, money, or respect.   They’re just not.   And if you folks are going to call me out on here- at least come up with a reason explaining why ghosting someone is a cool thing to do to them.   I’ve explained why it isn’t cool.   Otherwise I’m just tuning you out because it’s just noise.

    2. 32.2
      Clare

      I agree with you, Marika.

      I’ve interacted with quite a few guys who seem to confuse “abundance mentality” with the mentality that “he who cares the least and exercises his power to reject has the most power.” The latter mentality is not powerful – it’s born out of fear of being rejected. Of course often they don’t see that – they stay single for years and years with hearts that are closed off.

      Personally, as a woman, I have never looked at men who are too quick to reject and move on as “strong, confident and powerful.” I’ve never had more respect for such men, as YAG seems to think. I see such men as fearful and cold, and that makes me feel sorry for them.

  13. 33
    Shaukat

    As my post above indicates, I have no problem giving someone the benefit of the doubt or a second chance, but the opportunity to do so has to be there. It’s a bit presumptios for a guy to write a follow up email under the pretext of “giving her a second chance.” If you go on a date and have a nice time with a guy you like who doesn’t call you again, do you follow up on the assumption that he just got busy and forgot? Or do you act like a confident woman and assume he’d call if he was interested? And is your failure to follow up with him “born out of fear of being rejected?” See how that works?:)

    Also, if every guy you didn’t respond to sent you a follow up you’d be even more inundated.

    1. 33.1
      Emily, the original

      Shaukat,  

      If you go on a date and have a nice time with a guy you like who doesn’t call you again, do you follow up on the assumption that he just got busy and forgot? Or do you act like a confident woman and assume he’d call if he was interested? And is your failure to follow up with him “born out of fear of being rejected?” See how that works?:)

      Completely different situation. If you met the person and interacted face to face and you don’t hear anything after that, you move on. The person has had enough time to assess you. That’s entirely different than sending a follow up email to a stranger who has never so much as messaged you and who may have NO IDEA who you are.

    2. 33.2
      Marika

      You make some reasonable points, Shaukat. I wasn’t so much responding to you as the commenters who used words like pathetic, embarrassing, self-worth etc. That’s a very extreme way to think about a second message.

      It’s a bit like when female commenters get all ‘go girl’ and get their backs wayyy up over male behaviour which is either reasonable under the circumstances, or mildly clueless.

      I can guarantee, unless you’re targeting exclusively ’10s’, ‘mean girl’ types, or people 15 years younger,   there’s no harm in a follow up, if you like the look of the person / their profile. It’s 10 seconds of your time. They either respond or not. They definitely aren’t inviting all their friends over to discuss and dissect how pathetic you are (the ‘royal you’, that is).

      I wish there was more humanity and fewer black & white assumptions in online dating.

      And Mark, yes, men ghost too. I even got into a discussion here a while back where some of the male commenters were ardently defending ghosting (I actually think Tom may have been one of them).

    3. 33.3
      Clare

      Shaukat,

      Sometimes I wonder whether you, Tom10 and Mark have even read Evan’s post above. Or if you’ve spoken to a woman about this issue. It’s difficult for you to imagine it because you aren’t in the same position as the woman in this situation. So you liken it to some other dating situation, like where the two of you have met for a drink. Even though the two are NOT THE SAME AT ALL.

      Imagine for a moment that you had received 500 messages on a dating site in one week. This happens to some women. Would you truly, honestly take the time to go read each one, assess it, look through the person’s profile and make a thoughtful decision about whether or not the two of you are a match? If the answer is yes, I can only say that I want your job because I don’t know of anyone with that much time on their hands.

      Therefore, it stands to reason that perfectly great guys are slipping through the net for these women. This the entire crux of Evan’s post which you, Tom and Mark seem to have missed completely.

      1. 33.3.1
        Tom10

        Oh the irony…did you even read Evan’s answer yourself Clare, or did you just conveniently miss where Evan wondered why men would write to the same women twice?
          
        “there are enough quality women that I don’t see why you’d write to the same uninterested ones twice. Eventually, you gotta take a hint.
          
        Or, if you’re like most people, maybe you don’t.”
          
        Now, I understand why men with limited options will just keep emailing the same women over and over; they simply don’t have much choice. But for guys with options it’s simply not necessary.

        1. Clare

          Tom,

          Where did I suggest that men should keep emailing the same women over and over? That’s right – I never said it. I’m talking about one follow up email.

          Also, you and Shaukat and Mark have yet to address my other point: if she never even  saw your email, how is it that she is “uninterested”?

        2. Tom10

          @ Clare
          “Where did I suggest that men should keep emailing the same women over and over? That’s right — I never said it. I’m talking about one follow up email.”
            
          Okay that is fair.
            
          “if she never even  saw  your email, how is it that she is “uninterested”?”
            
          But how is he to know that she didn’t see the email? He can’t. All he knows is that he sent the email and she didn’t reply. The reason – whether it was because she was swamped or uninterested — is irrelevant, as he can’t know either way.
            
          In which case, how will he know that she’ll see the email the next time either? He doesn’t. All he knows is that she’s less likely to reply than other women. Her track record proves it. He’s still better served emailing a different woman.
            
          Clare, I guess, ultimately, you Marika and I are all struggling with the same thing; not being able to appreciate and understand the experiences of the other side.

      2. 33.3.2
        MilkyMae

        When I was on match.com, there was a “mutual match” feature.   You’ll have a list of men who matched your requirements and you matched their requirements.   All you have to do is write to the men on the list who seem attractive and ignore the other men.   Problem solved.

        BTW. If you get 500 emails, most will be winks or less the five syllables long so you don’t need much time the scan them. If great guys are slipping through, spend more time reading the emails and profiles.   Why is it the responsibility for great guys to be super great?

        1. Mark B

          Yeah- I agree.

      3. 33.3.3
        Mark B

        Clare,

        I suppose you could send 1 more email.   I used to do it in the past.   I don’t anymore.   I personalize my emails- don’t send form letters, send them out and then just forget about them.   From a guys perspective, after you send it you can see if the email has been read or not.   Most of the time you can tell if it’s been read.   If the woman is getting 500 emails a week- even if you do go out it’s going to be difficult to build momentum with that kind of competition imo.

        I think Evan even wrote something along the lines of- I suppose you could send another one, but why continue to ask the same women when there are others who are out there. Honestly if i re-up my membership in a year- many times I’ll forget who i contacted in the past.   I don’t keep records or anything.   However, if I remember they didn’t show interest than I won’t contact them again.

  14. 34
    who gives a flying fig

    In all honesty who should really give a crap about what a nameless faceless person thinks about them on an dating website.

     

     

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