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I tried every site around, starting in the late 90’s. Matchmaker.com. Nerve.com. JDate.com. Match.com. eHarmony.com. Chemistry.com. And probably a few others that are escaping my memory right now. These days, PlentyOfFish.com and OkCupid.com are the two free online dating players worthy of your consideration.
But from both my personal experience and my coaching experience, I’ve learned that most people tend to fail in online dating and then blame the website.
This is like blaming the gym because you didn’t lose weight.
Site are just big boxes of single people who are trying to meet each other. Nobody shows them how to come up with clever usernames. Nobody teaches them what photos to post. Nobody illustrates how to create a unique, compelling online dating profile. Nobody teaches effective email techniques based on actual research.
This is the way normal people talk when they go to parties. They don’t tap you on the shoulder and say, “You look cute. I think we have a lot in common. Let’s go out.”
The closest anybody gets is OkCupid – and all they do is give you test results – approximately 27% of people respond to first emails, overall – they don’t show you HOW to write great first emails.
So if you’ve been frustrated with your results in online dating (and one look at the comments below indicates that you ARE), there are a number of things you can do differently to get different results. One of the most powerful ones has to do with writing first emails. Consider what most people say:
Subject: Hi
Text: Hey Pat102. I read your profile and you seem really cool. I liked your photos. You have a great smile and I think we have a lot in common, too. I noticed that you have a dog. I also have a dog. What kind do you have? Where do you like to walk your dog? Maybe we can get together sometime. So, check out my profile and if you like what I have to say, I really hope to hear from you soon.
Sincerely, Chris.
If you’ve ever received an email like this, you know it sucks. But then why do you also WRITE emails like this as well? My theory is because it’s easiest – it’s what comes naturally to you. So you don’t put much thought into it, and, not surprisingly, it doesn’t get very good results. Why would it? There’s nothing funny, interesting, compelling, or different about such an email. Plus, it compliments the recipient too much – as if Chris is just praying that he/she is good enough for Pat102. No wonder Pat doesn’t respond to this display of weakness.
First emails are best when you offer your opinion of something specific in the person’s profile – but instead of doing what you normally do: “I agree. I like popcorn, too!”, you actually say something disagreeable, controversial, silly, or playful. Make an observation. Be sarcastic. Come up with a joke. Anything other than, “I like you. I like what you said. Please, please, please consider going out with me.”
For example, if someone says in his profile that he likes Costa Rica, you think about all the things you know about Costa Rica and search your brain for a humorous angle. Something other than, “I’ve heard it’s beautiful there! Tell me more!” Personally, I don’t know ANYTHING about Costa Rica, but I do know that all of my left-wing, liberal, neo-hippie friends go on yoga retreats there. Literally, the only reason I’ve even heard of Costa Rica is because of yoga.
So I use this in my email:
Subject: Yoga-Retreat Island
Hey, Pat. I have to be honest with you. I don’t know anything about Costa Rica; I think it’s in the Caribbean or Central America or something like that. All I know is that all of my left-wing yoga friends go on week-long retreats there every year. Which makes me wonder: what does it look like when you fly in at the airport? As the plane is descending, do you see 25,000 people doing down dog at the same exact time? Are there 25,000 more people who are ziplining from tree to tree? Inquiring minds want to know.
Talk soon, Chris.
You didn’t talk about yourself. You didn’t talk about the person you were writing to. You didn’t compliment the other person. You didn’t brag about yourself or sell yourself or ask anyone on any dates. You just made a silly observation about Costa Rica.
This is the way normal people talk when they go to parties. They don’t tap you on the shoulder and say, “You look cute. I think we have a lot in common. Let’s go out.”
It all starts with a little bit of witty banter.This technique is known as the Opinion Opener technique and it’s worked like a charm for thousands of women and men who’ve bought my Finding the One Online audio series.
If you’re sick of online dating – all the wrong people writing to you and the right people not writing back, here are four simple things I will teach you to do:
* You can come up with a new username/headline.
* You can post different online dating photos
* You can write a better online dating profile.
* You can improve your email technique.
All of this is explained in fascinating detail in Finding the One Online – with 7 hours of audio, a 180 page transcript and a 35 page workbook.
Click here to see for yourself how to make more people respond to your initial emails on Match.com.
After I learned what I was doing, about 20%. Maybe a little bit higher. My response rate kept improving, so the percentage changed according to how long of a time period I look at.
You should try to be humorous, that’s a good tip. However, man or women, if they are low maintenance and find your picture attractive, a wink, or simply, “Hi, how are you ;)” works just fine. Haven’t you ever heard the phrase, “You had me at hello”?! In fact, sometimes the more average message can help weed out the non-desirable, such as high maintenance people. Don’t over-think things. After all, you are only looking for one good one.
I’m a 29 year old male and I get somewhere between a 70-80% response rate on a first message. I consider myself handsome and very successful so that helps but still there’s no reason to have such a low response rate if you are actually putting in some effort and contacting people that would be a good match on paper for both you AND HER
Here’s what I did,
First, I created a female profile with a generic average picture and some random made up facts and then checked the messages after 3 days to scope out the competition to see what I’m up against (I’m a business owner it’s in my nature to know these things) . This dummy account had gotten around 85 messages over these three days and about 60 of them were short non personal easily spamable messages like “hi, want to chat” or some other nonsense that will be quickly ignored like the entire heard of them.
Around 4-5 were ridiculous people with nothing better to do then swear up a storm to some stranger and another 4-5 were looking for sex right off the bat. Then there were maybe 10 or more personalized messages where you could tell the guy was trying to put some effort into starting a conversation but most of them were pretty lame attempts at getting someone to talk back. So at best these women are only get a few handfuls of legit attempts to woo them and trust me. Most men have no idea how to open a conversation so give it a minute and think it through.
You’re not at a bar or being put on the spot so you should be able to come up with something clever that ends in a question that she will want to answer unless you are a terrible match and not worth her time. In which case you probably should of figured that out before you messaged her unless you are going after girls with profiles of just a picture and no content in which case you will likely need to be in the top 5-10 percentile of males to even peak her attention and that is if she is even a real women and not some other guys dummy profile collecting info on the competition. Most of the women with little to no content on their profile are not worth your time. They are either fakes, or there for ego boosts or just looking around and not putting any effort at all so don’t waste your effort on them.
So now that you are selecting probably good matches and creating witty emails ending in questions related to something in their profile you will need a good profile to lure her in.
If you have an ugly mug then you will likely need to have plenty of pictures of you. Don’t put selfies, add pictures of you on vacation, traveling, doing what ever hobby you listed, you like sitting around camp fires? Good wheres a picture of you with a beer laughing with friends around the fire? Don’t put up pictures of your possessions trying to show them off it’s tacky and sends good girls walking. These pictures should show an array of your life with you having a good time not being super serious in all of them.
The last part is your profile and this is where you win them over. Girls are complicated creatures but a vast majority of them enjoy reading and they are all suckers for words and the emotions they can bring. So spend a few hours and turn your profile into a 3-4 paragraph synopses that describes you and who you are eloquently. Make sure it flows smoothly without any hiccups and has parts that show your humor, playfulness and hints at your success without boasting or pointing it out. You need to create a little mysterious intrigue without spelling everything out for her. You want her to want to message you and find out what interesting things you hinted at but didn’t really describe. Also keep the “I” to an absolute bare minimum. This should read like a short synopses creating enough interest to suck these silly creatures into messaging you, never mind you messaging them.
And just remember, you are a male you are born to compete! Your half-hearted effort is being blown out of the water by some other man who wants it more so either rise to his level and compete with him or keep moping about not being able to get a reply as if it’s the girls fault you aren’t drawing their attention.
Wow I am impressed everything you said was true and a great way to start getting to know someone. I will definitely be using some of your techniques to see if it works even though I am a woman I want to see if it works.
Lol you’re the boss man
You’re quite clever I must say. Thanks for the advice. I’ll try to apply the same.
Generally good advice.
But seriously, after reading Amy Webb’s experiences and also based on my own experiences, profiles that are meaningful, yet succinct are the most effective.
I don’t want to read a profile with more than 200-300 words. I don’t have the time. The photos themselves should express who you are so craft them carefully. The profile should be colorful enough to pique the targeted demographic and yet mysterious enough for them to want to know more. That is a delicate art form.
Every time I see a profile with long monologues, even if it displays a superior intellect and interesting stories, I feel exhausted. I have read literally hundreds, maybe even thousands of profiles.
Nobody needs to know all the music you’ve listened to or the books you’ve read in your life. Or all the countries you’ve traveled to. Or all the restaurants you visited.
In the end, most of these people are passer-bys and are most certainly not your beloved. Don’t spill your guts except to your shrink.
Ana,
I’m going to have to disagree with the majority of your statements here. If you don’t have time for me and reading my profile, then I don’t have time for you. It’s really as simple as that. If you’re actually interested in getting to know someone you shouldn’t feel that way, just an observation.
I don’t do mass mailings, I read profiles very carefully and compose my emails with the same amount of care. Not only do I make sure they have what I’m looking for, but also the other way around as well. My sample size is small, only 10 at the moment, but all but the very first one has responded. I still chat with 7 of the 9, and have met 4 of them in person.
I’m sure my rate would go down if I was more active, and I’m sure I may end up overlooking something good too. But I’ll take that chance, this online stuff isn’t the only place I’m looking.
Why waste the time being creative when for 90% of us men our emails will be deleted. Now if a women shows interest in my initial contact then I will be cocky, funny and employ all that jerk like behavior that USA Women love and passes for seduction.
it’s a numbers game plain and simple…
Here is what makes me not respond to an e-mail:
Men who fall far outside of my stated profile preferences such as, out of state men, men who smoke, men who are young enough to be my son or old enough to be my father.
No picture, unrecognizable picture, shirtless selfies, scowling faces in the pictures.
OK, I’ll admit it, if there is a good clear picture where I can clearly see the face with a pleasant expression, and I don’t find the face somewhat appealing, I also pass. Not looking for drop dead handsome, but if the face totally turns me off, why bother ?
Skimpy profile.
Profile with lot’s of negatives such as “Please no drama” “No perfectionists please” or my personal favorite “no fatties”
Profiles who’s stated goal is “casual sex”. I also steer away from anyone who is on a DATING site looking for “new friends”. I know how much men hate being “friend zoned”, so I suspect “new friends” is code for “friends with benefits”.
Profiles where the man spends excessive amounts of time describing the physical attributes he wants in a woman. It’s fine if he says he wants a woman who is fit and attractive or takes pride in her appearance. But the profiles that go on an on about how they want someone who excercise every day, is manicured, pedicured, smells great, dresses fashionably, etc. get deleted.
E-mails that just say “Hi” or “You’re Hot”.
Obvious cut and paste.
Here is what would make me respond:
A decent profile with decent pics that show a smiling man with a face I could possibly fall in love with.
A profile that does not show any glaring incompatibilities with me.
Age and geographically appropriate.
A nice friendly introductory e-mail that references SOMETHING that indicates he read my profile and didn’t just look at my picture. If he get something funny or witty in the letter that doesn’t hurt, but it’s not mandatory to me that the introductory letter be filled with witty banter. A nice friendly, sincere e-mail that seems to express genuine interest is all it takes.
Any e-mails or profiles that suggest jerk like characteristics get deleted. And I’m a USA woman. Go figure.
Well then ,
It sounds like you’ve just got it All figured out then Emerald , don’t ya ?
Timothy – Not sure why the snark. If you didn’t find the woman’s point of view, of why I would or would not respond to an e-mail helpful, then by all means, continue to go to PUA sites and let the men tell you that being a jerk on or offline always lands you the girl. And let me know how that works for you.
I was very disappointed to read that not only did facebook conduct some social experiments with their users, but so did some dating sites. They hid pics on some profiles, and condensed profiles. (according to some online article) So that does make me wonder if I ever did not respond to guy without a pic, assuming that he was hiding something, when in fact it was THE DATING WEBSITE hiding his pic to try and prove a point. Or if I read a profile and really couldn’t get a handle on the guy, not because he couldn’t be bothered to write a decent profile, but because the dating site was running an experiment and decided to cut his profile in half. So I guess I didn’t have it all figured out, how was I to know that the dating sites may have been tampering with the profiles to conduct social research ? (or maybe the article was lie, who the heck knows any more ?)
But it’s a moot point. Last year I responded to an age appropriate,(8 years older) local man (20 miles) whose profile showed showed a man with a pleasant face, a healthy active lifestyle ,looking for a life partner. We exchanged some e-mails, eventually met face to face and now we are a couple.
Explain to me why I should waste my time writing to man half my age who smokes, lives 3 states away, and looks grumpy in all of his pictures ? Explain to me why “You’re hot” as the entirety of the e-mail should get my attention ?
No, I don’t have it all figured out, but at least now I have a boyfriend.
Yup, he’ll take the time to write that perfect and well thought out email and discover that you found his face “less than appealing.” Now that guy has to go and do the same thing for the next 10-15 women just to get a reply from someone. That’s the fight we have to put up with.
It is not just men check out sites with chat ,or more adult oriented sites you will be inundated with massive chats all from out of state ,a lot without photos usually turn out to be scams. Then when a real person chats and being from out side the profile area they seem to have a delusion as to how a relationship works one individual was willing to relocate how ever it is very easy to become emotionally attached more difficult to work at a long distance relationship . The overall issue is two fold we as men are taught not to relate but to pursue women as if there prey woman or taught that they do not want sex or are overly assertive yet they want to marry yet many do not fill out even the basics of the profile
A decent looking, in shape guy can do all the “right things”, & put forth some effort & still receive a very low response rate. There are profiles that are expired, some women are overwhelmed, some expect perfection, & some are just seeking attention. So yes, it is possible, but very challenging & frustrating from the male perspective.
Wow…way to be looking for the love of your life by calling us a numbers game. That is why women don’t respond..we know douchetard when we see it.
It is a numbers game. That’s the truth, if you’re unaware of how things work but willing to call people a douche for being honest we don’t need you.
I’d say 8 out of 10 men respond when I make the first contact, which is not often. My strategy is much like Slim Pickens so my contacts are few and spread out over time.
I will always respond to a thoughtful, carefully composed email even if just to say thank you for the time and attention but I don’t see us as a match. I do not feel compelled to respond to careless one liners or men who are so far outside of my criteria that I am not at all sure why they wrote to me.
I tried being thoughtful and reading through every profile and spent more time tayloring a message specifically for them than I did actually reading profiles. Back then I was only 24 and that is just 1 year out of most ladies age range for some reason. So eventually I started carpet bombing all of them with the same message that was basic as far as saying “if age is not a deal breaker then I would like to get to know you more”. It was pretty much the only way that I got responses, yes maybe I would get 1 positive response out of 100 and maybe 1 response period for every 40 emails, but it was better than getting a slap in the face every time I took time to read through someone who seemed like they would be a perfect match. Despite the age difference I did end up going on 2 dates for the whole year I was on Match. Now I am 25 and that carpet bomb message just does not work as I am now in the age range for most women in their late 20’s and even early 30’s. 8 out of 10 is good though. It seems like women have it a lot easier on dating sites than men but the fact is most of you are getting played by the same smooth talker who carpet bombs but actually gets a higher response rate. Serial daters is what they are called. I don’t really like the nerves behind first dates but I carpet bombed to get a response period.
I rarely wrote to guys but the response rate was nearly 100% if I did.
I responded to roughly 10% of the men that wrote me.
That’s a great point, XPuff. Not just what percent write you back, but what percent do you write back TO?
less than 5%
Yeah after spending a few months, I average about 3 to 4 percent. Half of whom are scammers.
I would say 90% or more of men I wrote to, wrote back. I probably responded to about 15-20% of e-mails once I knew what I was doing…I responded to more in the beginning but quickly learned that was way too much. I won’t say that I never responded to a wink (it has been about 3 years since I was on Match regularly so hard to say) but very, very few. I sent lots of winks and probably got a 20-30% response rate from them (I was a 23 year old 8+ then, rather than a 28 year old 7 🙂
Hmmm…I met my husband on match.com. Before him, I’d say 40-50 percent wrote back. I was very proactive and wrote personalized emails to anyone I thought could possibly be a good match. I do think the more you put out there- the more you have to expect not to here from. And not to take it personally. And heck, you may need to exchange emails with 10 people before you even want to meet one! I think it’s partly a numbers game and you just have to keep at it till you find your diamond in the haystack!
I agree with Rich — less than 5%.
I would say 20 %
Absolutely, JuJu. You just have to register below:
See you there – and keep answering the daily questions – your contributions are appreciated.
Evan
Will there be a recording of the class? I have school on Tuesdays until 9:30 pm.
I’m not currently using Match.com, but I have in the past and I’m currently on a similar dating site. When I make the first contact by writing to a man, I almost always get a response — I’d estimate 95% of the time. I don’t do winks or “flirts.” I generally answer all thoughtfully written messages I receive, thanking the sender, even if I’m not interested in further contact. I rarely respond to the one-liner, “You’re hot” messages. They’ve gotta come up with something better than that if they want a response from me.
Zann, I want to thank you for having the unselfishness and appreciation to make the effort to write back to the majority of men who write you. Being ignored and made to feel invisible is rude and insensitive. As a man I get very few first contacts and when I do, frankly the women are often unattractive and do so out of desperation. I answer every single one and if I have no attraction to then at all I offer a neutral response with a cheerful attitude and wish them good luck. We’re all looking for love and no matter how unappealing a person may be, by filling out a profile and writing people they are at least trying.
I agree. I wish more people would have the respect to at least answer thank you but no thank you so you can just move on instead of leaving them hanging. The ones I really don’t understand are the ones that initiate contact then don’t respond when you write them.
I’m glad to know that I am not the only guy seeing this same problem. Thank you for being one of the “good ones”. I just want some honest feed back. I mean we are online for Gods sake it is already impersonal. If I am rude in any way tell me. If I am not attractive, tell me. At least put me in my place so I do not continue sending messages to women that have the self worth of a super model. Matt I am having the same problem. I had someone initiate a conversation with me and when I reply I don’t hear anything back yet they remain online. The best part is when someone like that does finally reply when you send a second message days later and say “oh it’s been a busy week”. Maybe I should start playing those games and see how quick I get away with them.
“…. frankly the women are often unattractive and do so out of desperation”
Wow. I applaud you for responding to the emails regardless of your interest, but the above is a pretty sad statement, don’t you think? You have every right to find someone unattractive, but to say they are contacting you out of desperation is an insult to both you and these women. Why is it okay to call someone desperate just because you’re not personally attracted to them? If I was searching and picked up on that attitude in your profile, i don’t care if you’re George Clooney-level hot, I would never reach out. I’m not trying to bash you, but that statement says alot about your frame of mind going into things.
Candace,
Thanks for your reply. I did a poor job of wording the point I made about receiving 1st emails from women who were unattractive and/or desperate. It is difficult to describe such a dynamic thing as online dating in a brief comment. What I have experienced is receiving emails from women who do not match my criteria virtually in any way. When I said attractive I didn’t just mean looks. Unlike many men who use broad criteria so as not to miss out on any opportunities, I have a profile which shows I’m not interested at all in women who smoke, do drugs, live more than 100 miles away, are overweight or beyond my age range. However I get emails from women who have not one but several of these unwanted attributes. I am 46, no kids, no drugs, no smoking, athletic, never been married and have my own house and business. A 50 year old, smoker with 3 kids who describes themselves as a homebody is either desperate or they don’t read my basic checklist. That’s the type of person I was referring to and yet I still reply. I don’t email any woman who is out of my league, meaning I don’t substantially meet her criteria, yet most don’t reply at all. That’s the reason I find online dating mostly a waste of time for a man. Interestingly enough, I have had great success on the site Tinder which requires the woman to mostly make a judgment on looks to be able to chat and take it further. Best of luck to you!
Please do not take it personnally if the woman does not respond to your messages. I could get between 200 to 400 emails in a couple of days. I once tried to respond to every one who wrote to me but the site would either limit the number of messages I could send or the men would take this as a sign to bombard me with more messages even though I had told them that I wasn’t interested. Not to mention those who insult you.
As for men who send the same messages to all the women, believe me, we know. We are not stupid. And good for you if it works but a good, authentic woman does not want to be one among many. We want to be unique and treated as such.
Finally, I would say be yourself when you send someone an email. Be funny and original. I met my boyfriend on Plenty of fish. And the one thing he did was stand out. Because his profile pictures were horrible. Lol
Do you think it’s possible to send so many unique messages?
of course….women’s demands are never excessive.
I wish that most women were like you, Zann.
My experience with online dating has definitely not been a good one for me, and I often end up feeling like nobody wants anything to do with me, and that I’m just not good enough.
It has caused me to decide that renewing my Match.com subscription just wasn’t worth the price, and that I’d be better served going speed dating. I’m going to try that, but between work and being on the other side of town, I expect it to be difficult
I have also had run ins with several scam artists, the first one of which blasted a hole in my heart. I’ve been trying (unsuccessfully) to fill in that hole ever since.
I have become suspicious of anyone who returns an interest in me, because my past experience has been that most are people trying to rip me off, and the one person who was real found someone else before I was even given a single date.
I have become jealous of men who actually have found someone, and think too often that love is meant for other people, and not me.
I hate thinking this way, but there is very little I can do about it, aside from trying to shut my emotions off.
I realize that women who are even somewhat attractive can receive at least dozens of messages a week, but it would help so much if more people tried to make online dating a positive experience, instead of outright ignoring me.
Though I’m not sure why, my batting average has varied widely. At certain points it’s about 75% or so, and during one miserable spell it was about 10%. I’d say it averages out to around 40%.
In terms of who I respond to, I have no idea. So much of the garbage that gets sent to me I don’t really think of as e-mails. But if someone actually writes me a nice personalized message, I will almost always write them back.
I don’t remember the last time I initiated a correspondence, so my answer to that would be statistically immaterial.
As for how many e-mails from men I reply to: as some other women already said, if the e-mail is well-written and well thought-out, I will usually respond, even if I am not interested romantically. If the man is too short (and my last profile did specify a minimum height requirement), I could say something like, “Sorry, I just can’t imagine myself with someone who is 5’6″, but I certainly wouldn’t mind being friends” (not sure anyone appreciates this sort of a response, though, so maybe I should just quit being what I perceive as nice). If I don’t find the face particularly attractive (for me this would mean, kissable), then my further activity will depend on whether I think there is any chance at all that in person this man will turn out to be acceptable. If I think there is, I will agree to meet with him once – not a big expenditure of my time or effort, after all, and I could potentially gain an interesting friend as a result. If, otoh, I DON’T allow for the possibility, then that is probably the only instance when I will not reply to an intelligent e-mail. I just don’t see what I could possibly say that would sound more pleasant to him than my silence.
Oh, I absolutely do not dignify form letters with a response. I’ve seen other people’s profiles, I know exactly how much mine stands out, and I am confident it deserves nothing less than a personalized answer.
yup. that would be like me saying to you “sorry i just cant imagine myself with 3 out of 10 woman like you” but i certainly wouldn’t mind being friends. lol
Whew. Good thing you’re not shallow.
Yea I don’t think a guy can fake a friend ship with a woman after said woman already knows that he is attracted yet you pretty much tell him that he is not attractive. Don’t get me wrong, by all means tell a dude if he is not attractive to you, and be specific, every guy needs to learn his place if nothing else.
I also find dating sites to be frustrating. Of course I’m also deficient in looks, intelligence, personality, and so forth, so finding a match is virtually impossible anyway. I’ve been reading through this, wanting to know more about what people think and why they do what they do. I replied to your post JuJu because I was thinking, finally, a woman who leaves things like friendship, and making new friends/acquaintances open, rather than the “I’m not attracted to this person so it’s over”. I’d have been more than happy just to make some new friends on OKC, but frankly, writing lengthy emails to people and not getting responses is exhausting, so I write only a little these days. I created a dummy profile once with my brother (who is well-to-do & attractive) and wrote similar emails to the women I had written to. It did increase responses, but not by nearly as much as I would have thought.
I respond to all, except winks, though if they just write one sentence, and it’s lame, I tend to use the auto reply feature, “Thanks but we’re just not a match.”
A few men I have, “rejected,” (hard to call it that when they very barely try) are obnoxious back, and those I block. No need to leave a space for abuse.
When I write men they almost always respond. However, I unfortunately seem to find men of interest that are, “geographically undesirable,” as Click n’ Clack would say, and they write back, but turn me down based on this fact alone. Some of them say they are flattered, some are just matter-of-fact. One man, “rejected,” me because he said he was, “hard wired,” for a petite woman. That made me laugh out loud, and then shudder at the thought of how skinny he must need a woman to be. Yeek. Scary.
moon
I’d say about 10% to 20% of the time.
I respond about 50% of the time to the guys who write me first and 100% to those who write thoughtful personalised messages to me.
I think I might just have met ‘the One’ online recently. Time will tell.. i
On Match(which I hate) I was on for a month and got about 2 responses to about 30 or 40 emails. On Yahoo which I’ve been on for years I get about 2 for every 15 to 20 I email. I like Yahoo better than Match …Obviously…LOL
I’m currently active on Match and OKCupid. Over the last 16 months…
I’ve contacted 2 woman, had responses from both, went on one date with one. 100% on a tiny sample.
I’ve gotten incoming messages from seven women, met three, dated one, emailed the other four, currently in contact with three of them.
I’ve gotten around six winks, said thanks but no thanks to all.
I also date in the real world.
BTW, I’m bald, average looking, 5’10”, fit, active, employed and can dance.
Juju wrote something I’ve been curious about — she said that she mentioned to someone that they could be friends. When people say that after going on 1 or 2 date, are they really serious? I personally have said that to a couple of guys that I dated where there wasn’t any chemistry. I quickly discovered that from a practical standpoint, trying being friends with a date that didn’t work out, is weird and not especially productive. I already have enough friends to keep me busy and engaged. Then add to that the search for a SO and I just couldn’t fit those other guys in. Finally, it really is awkward if one person still has romantic feelings. You worry that they guy is trying to use you or you are trying to use the guy. So, while I think in theory it is nice to tell someone let’s be friends, in practice it’s much more difficult.
Unlike some of the women on this blog, I didn’t receive lots of emails or winks. So as they saying goes beggars can’t be chosers. So, as long as the guy hasn’t written anything inappropriate and I like his profile, then I am satisfied and will reply back. I will respond to winks, short emails, mass emails, and long emails alike. Old and average ladies just get very little love. Now, I won’t go out with just any man, but if I like the profile, I really have nothing to lose by replying back.
I’m not sure the “highly SMV” ladies have it any better than us “low/no SMV” do. They just have w different set of issues.
I am currently taking myself of 3 dating sites I was on. It was not easy in the beginning to get decent responses. But I am getting a great number of them now.Some of them I have met for coffee, but it did not go any further. Some I have gone out with for more then one date if I thought I should see if something would be there so that it can develop into something. I can honestly say that over time it is progressively getting better. However right now I feel I just need a bit of a break. Even internetdating is time consuming and can burn you out.
There are men out who will keep sending you flirts, yet will not after my response, have further communication. I try as much as I can to respond to emails. Sometimes I will respond to flirts, depending on what I read in their profile, pictures etc I do try to be polite and feel that I should at least acknowledge that someone took the time to email me.
Look forward to more questions to answer Evan
We need more happygirls 🙂
thanks for being kind to my fellow men
I agree. Thank you for having the respect to respond even it is it thanks but no thanks. 🙂
Bryan-
Your intellectual comments truly have me taken back. I’m not an online dater; I’m not on FB or any other site dealing with the Internet. I just happened to stumble across this article; I must admit I love reading blogs.
Your comments definitely stands OUT! I enjoyed your reply to Candace; it sounds like you know what you want and it’s nothing wrong with that. You replied in such a detail manner; I’m not a smoker and I wouldn’t tolerate that for 2 seconds; nothing against those that choose that way of life; it’s just not me. I’m very athletic myself, I definitely wouldn’t want a couch potato. AGAIN, nothing against a couch potato if that’s what floats anyone’s boat.
After reading the comments on here if I do decide to “online date” I have truly learned a lot! You all have been a wonderful source of information!
Thanks to Everyone!
Kenley,
I don’t know about the others, but I personally only said it when I meant it. Interesting people are hard to come by, and if a see a combination of intellectual AND genuinely kind, I’d be more than glad to add them to my circle. Now, I’d rather they were women, as I don’t have any female friends, but I don’t go on dates with women. 😉
I realize, however, that if the man truly wants me, the suggestion will insult rather than flatter him, so perhaps I am going about this all wrong, anyway.
JuJu,
I understand you points. Sometimes a man will hope to change your mind or will not take the rejection well. But, since it is a numbers game, you are missing out on the exposure to new propects that a new friend can offer. If you are unselfish, genuine and smart you can offer something of value, social interesction to the person you rejected. Google “the corridor theory”.
*social interaction *
To answer Evan’s second question, I probably respond favorably to 5% to 10% of the e-mails and winks that I receive. Breaking that down further, it’s 0% favorable to the poorly written e-mails from women who didn’t bother to read my profile, and about 20% to 25% favorable to the articulate e-mails from women who read my profile.
And to clarify my earlier answer, the 20% response rate only referred to favorable responses. “No thanks” or “I’m starting to get serious with someone else” don’t count.
JuJu-
No need for constructive criticism. If you’re going to respond, respond with class and gratitude. Otherwise, just ignore.
My two cents.
EMK
Sorry, Evan, not sure I am understanding you – you mean, to the men who write me?
Yes. He doesn’t need to hear WHY you’re not interested, unless for some insane reason he asked for your feedback in his initial email to you. My policy was always to write thoughtful, polite rejection letters to those who wrote great emails, and to ignore everyone else.
Life is too short to be an HR department.
How is it insane to want feedback? No one wants to make the same mistake twice with someone who might otherwise be genuinely interested.
RE: Kenley’s #20 and the “let’s be friends” concept.
I’ve only tried it very rarely. One guy and I managed to remain friends for a year before he admitted he still had feelings for me and had to break it off. And I’m currently optimistic about another guy with whom I’m having my first “friend” meeting tonight, as neither one of us was feeling a romantic connection but could easily have been part of my close friends in college (had we attended the same university).
For a guy to go into the friend category things could never have gotten physical, or at least not very physical, or else I think there’s always that reminder/temptation there, which can also lead to a certain awkwardness. At the same time, you have to have gone out with the person enough times to know that you both have a lot in common, connect well, and like each other. You need to have a certain amount invested already in the relationship (Evan said this somewhere…don’t recall where).
I just don’t email guys – maybe it’s a generational thing (I’m 49) or that I like or need to be pursued. But, I do think it’s important to be polite and strive for a kinder/gentler online world, so I respond to all polite emails (in proportion to their email).
I have a question – Who responds to a wink and why?
Thank you lulubell. The world is a better place with you in it.
Lulubell- “Who responds to a wink and why?”
I’m sure most men will a lot more often respond to a wink than women because they get so few responses of any kind they get excited about any they get.
Plenty of women also respond to winks if the guys photo is “hot” enough and the profile is short,safe and generic. Although they might just wink back ….it’s still a response…lol
I’m very picky on who I email. So I would have to say it’s about 80% response. I keep my emails short and sweet. I usually get replies even if they aren’t interested.
Ditto what Eathan said. As I get more selective about whom I’m emailing and my letter writing skills get a little cleverer, my batting average increases. (See, sports reference–guys love that–LOL.) If I make even the slightest sexual innuendo or double entendre, I’m almost guaranteed a 100% response (cheap, I know, but it’s reality).
If a guy has a long-ish profile, I don’t worry so much about keeping my letter super short. Otherwise, it’s 4 or 5 good sentences (reference profile, include humor, no big grammatical errors, no soulmate talk, etc.). I try to end with a question so they can lob the ball back into my court (sorry–couldn’t resist).
I’m lazy (and maybe a little shy)–every once in a while I’ll use a wink to feel out a guy I think might be too young, too hot, too far, etc. If he winks back, then I’ll send an email.
If I make even the slightest sexual innuendo or double entendre, I’m almost guaranteed a 100% response (cheap, I know, but it’s reality).
No…NO! It is NOT cheap! It is called “flirting” and guys like that, because we like sex and we want a sexy woman who is comfortable with her sexuality and male sexuality for a partner. A sexy joke shows you aren’t a prude, or stuck up or frigid. It shows you have a sense of humor, which is a turn on to men. Laughing women are beautiful.
I have also had great response when making sexy and humorous comments to those I show interest in.
I’m short end polite in my emails and I ever get an answer – even if the chicks are not interested… This system works absolutely here in Germany… 😉
I have been on match for about three months and have gotten responses and met two guy’s. I have e-mailed as well as winked to a few guys and I have gotten only a few responses. I know I am not unattractive could it be that my being the first to e-mail is to forward and scares them away? Or maybe it is my profile, but I don’t think they really read it to much. I too am also only e-mailing the ones that interest me and fall into both our profiles. I have to say i am starting to feel a bit insecure from the lack of responses.
I use Match.com, I have done over the last few years, and met 3 people from it to whom turned into girlfriends or 7 – 10 months each.
My experience is that women just do not reply, I take the time to write a nice customised email to the people i think are nice and fit the bill etc, but nobody responds. I can see that they have read the email too. Im a descent bloke, not bad looking, have a really good quality profile. I have emailed over 100 women, nice emails, and got 2 reponses and not heard anything else.
However, i set an account up as a womnan (No im not a cross dresser) to see how many blokes emailed me, and i have been getting about 10 to 15 emails every single day from different blokes.
My conclusion of Match.com is that women pay to use it and just wait for blokes to contact them, they do not ever initiate the first contact and will only respond if you look like brad pitt. Women are extremely shallow and think they can get any bloke they want, well that appears to be the case with the people on Match.com, im not saying they are all like it, but nobody seems to have the manners to respond to say no thanks, or even have the courtesy to reply.
Absolutely the same opinion and experience. I wouldn’t go as far as calling the girls shallow, but they definitely get such a huge amount of emails that if you don’t look like a model you don’t stand a chance.
I sent already 154 messages so far. From those, the vast majority was a good template I had which I modified slightly to fit the profile I’m sending it (I have better things to do in my life than staying 24 hours a day in front of online dating sites). In about 15 occasions I wrote a customised email because I identified myself with the girl’s profile a lot. Got 0% feedback. From the templates I got 4 answers. Two girls answered and we exchanged for a bit messages and they vanished without saying anything. 1 is from the other side of the planet although she stated she lived in my town. And 1 date which was not a girl which I really liked it.
Just as note, I’m a guy with an exciting job and quite interesting life background. I would say I’m not ugly either, I’m fit, I had a few beautiful girlfriends, and from time to time I get lucky in clubs. The only drawback I could state is that I’m 5’7 tall.
I am in exactly the same position as you. Good looking, well presented, good job, couple of properties . 5ft 8
get around 5% response rate on match maybe 10% on okcupid
The reason is that women get 100,s of messages Internet dating favours the women, they have the pick of the crop
Tom said: (#34)
“Women are extremely shallow and think they can get any bloke they want, […] nobody seems to have the manners to respond to say no thanks, or even have the courtesy to reply.”
Some of these women are getting 50 to 100 e-mails per day. How many hours per day do you think they should reasonably spend sending out courteous replies?
christina asked: (#33)
“could it be that my being the first to e-mail is to forward and scares them away?”
No. It’s much more likely that your pictures or your profile don’t interest them. Even for women, it’s a numbers game. You will only receive replies to a fraction of the e-mails you send out.
————–
On an interesting aside, I signed back up on match.com after 15 months off. Several days after signing back up, I received an e-mail from someone that I had initially e-mailed 16 or 17 months ago. Initially I hadn’t received any response.
I’ll be calling her tonight to set up a first date.
I’m on Match and admittedly I don’t email first. I do wink first, but only to guys I find both attractive and seemingly a good match. I’d say the response is about 20%. And 80% of that is “thanks, but no thanks”. Which is, admittedly, somewhat disheartening sometimes.
As for guys who contact me, I respond 100% of the time, even if it’s the auto-reject button. At least on Match. I did recently join Borders (Which I loathe and have already cancelled my account.) which does not have an auto-reject button. I do respond to every thoughtfully written email on Borders, even if it’s to tell them we’re not a match. Except the guy who wanted to know all about my feet and what colour I paint my toenails. Yeah, I deleted him.
.-= FrogPrincess´s last blog ..To Plan Or Not To Plan =-.
Do you respond to guys who just wink at you?
@ Karl R
Did she remember you from your initial contact?
Kristyn asked:
“Did she remember you from your initial contact?”
Yes, even though I’d changed the name I was using, I’d changed my main portrait (a couple of the other pictures were the same), and I’d rewritten 1/3 of my profile.
Nothing ended up coming of it, but I did get an interesting story (or two) out of it.
I am new to dating, just got separated.. ok
I am totally discouraged. I actually met a guy on eharmony and he and I dated and had a great connection, we went out, and had long walks, had great physical passion.. and it was over a period of a few months.. ok, then he dumps me by text.. and I am crushed. I swear I got on match. com and was amazed that he is online all the time. I am super sweet and attractive. I have alot of people emailing me and I try to email them back but I feel so scared that I now have a disease since when we were together a few times, protection did not seem to last.
I am scared to death I have a major disease. I have tried to email this player and he now ignores me. I want to throw up.
He also dumped me by text and now it turns out we are mutual matches. I think he is a complete pig and I am in complete numb shock over this as I was falling in love. I took my pictures off and I dont know if I will put them back up. I am very sad.
im so sorry about that Beccy…he is an idiot…no offence. i hope you have gotten tested?
Be careful, I am sorry to hear about your experience. I am very selective with the individuals I choose to reach out to and do not have a profile photo for fear of too many creepers. I have met one individual after texting, talking and FaceTiming, but when we finally met it was obvious what his intentions were. On line dating is scary, but don’t give up, just be selective and careful. Best of luck to you!
About me: late 30s, graduate education, stable career, 5’10” w/athletic build and all my hair (though honestly at best average looking). Otherwise a decent profile with pictures and plenty of text. Random stats from my experience, which is substantial (~300 emails in the last 8 months): Virtually 100% of my emails are read within 20 minutes (HUH?). 90+% of those emailed did not check out my profile. Response rate less is than 5%. Once there is a response chances of a first date are better than 50%. I’ve never received a “thanks, but not interested” email. One average the 8 girls I’ve met were more attractive in real life than their profiles suggested. All in all, online dating has made dating even worse, if such a thing is/was possible. I don’t recommend it for anyone; I found it to be far too much work for far too little yield.
I don’t write first emails very often, so if I’m inspired to write one I usually am in the frame of mind where it’s pretty funny…and I have a great response rate…probably around 95%. Funny thing is, that I have better dating luck with the men that write me first. So, it’s a fun test that I run in my head. I try and be positive and have had a lot of fun dates.
As far as responding, I try to respond to most (90%) emails that are written to me. I have a few male friends that are online and thier complaint to me is how rude women are. They would like to know either way if you are interested. My thinking is that I hate to be the one to say, “No, I’m not interested in you, thanks anyway” I think women think no response is a response. That’s what I think if I don’t hear back..so I have an somewhat generic answer that I write that is as nice as it can be for the guys that I don’t want to date…just to not be rude.
What I don’t get are winks with no photo and boring profiles. 😀
I’m finding it very difficult even to say, Thanks but not thanks. Do you mind sharing your polite “generic” statement for those emails you receive that you are not interested in? Thanks !
This is what I say:
“Hi, thanks for writing me. I’m attracted to (insert what they are not here) I wish you the best of luck!!
I’m with match. Despite my strong and unique profile, reasonable photos, and sending out hundreds of personalized messages (I don’t bother with winks); I probably get checked out by 5% and responded to by 1% if I’m lucky. I’ve never gotten a date from this and I have never been contacted first by a woman. I don’t think I’m that terrible looking, 5’10”, 150, ex-military, but I’m no Brad Pitt. I was attributing this to my poor response rate until I started reading around a bit. It’s just terrible.
I am now up to 81 emails out. All extremely well thought out and ALL tailored to the profile on hand, with a quirky, cute, and funny headline to capture their attention.
A BIG FAT ZERO! No responses at all. Admittedly, the women I email all look good. But I am no slouch either – my primary photo is in a tux and I am toned. NADA. Maybe I should write down my salary to improve my chances. I’m fresh out of ideas at this point.
Kind of glad to see I’m not alone. I too am batting 0%. I’m pretty darn frustrated with it and decided to call out this one particular woman who thought no response is a response. THIS she responds to and she turns around and calls me rude.
What has taught women this is acceptable? If you meet a woman in real life and she were to just turn her back and walk away, you’d call her a bitch. I don’t see how non-responsiveness on a dating site is any different. In fact, it’s worse. We’re all there to meet people!! And you just flat out ignore people who took time to write you a thoughtful e-mail? Not cool. Not cool at all. Even a simple “no thanks” is infinitely better than being totally ignored.
Kevin is 100% correct
“What has taught women this is acceptable? If you meet a woman in real life and she were to just turn her back and walk away, you’d call her a bitch. I don’t see how non-responsiveness on a dating site is any different. In fact, it’s worse. We’re all there to meet people!! And you just flat out ignore people who took time to write you a thoughtful e-mail? Not cool. Not cool at all. Even a simple “no thanks” is infinitely better than being totally ignored.”
You know who taught women to behave that way? Men. By joining dating sites and accepting that kind of treatment from women, women eventually got the idea that it was OK not to respond, or to treat men badly. In fairness, women do get inundated with mails. A solution to that problem is for dating services to allow women to write and store a short, customized ‘no thank you’ mail they can send to men they’re not interested in. But online dating services really aren’t interested in helping people. Making a profit is all that matters, so this is why a feature like this doesn’t exist.
My personal feeling about dating sites is that the odds of success for all but the best-looking, richest men are very poor. It just doesn’t make sense to invest the kind of time and money that online dating requires, only to get a 5% response rate – if you’re lucky. You can endlessly tweak and re-tweak your profile to try to make yourself more appealing, but unless you fit into the top 20% of men that women are actually attracted to, you’re just wasting your time – and money.
The evidence I offer for my claim is found in a study that OKCupid did a while back said that women find 80% of the men on the OKCupid site to be unattractive. That’s pretty bad. For most men, that means they’re beaten long before they even start writing their profile.
As for me, I’ve taken down all of my online dating profiles. Why play a game that is rigged against you and benefits only women and dating site operators?
There is one big difference between the Internet and real life: it’s the Internet. It’s not real life. So since they are not not face to face with you, no, they don’t OWE you anything. It’s that kind of attitude of entitlement that is keeping you frustrated. If you can’t learn to shrug it off and deal with the fact that this is how it is, you’re going to continue to get frustrated. Sending out WTF emails when you don’t get a response is also not great for your karma – if you’re radiating bad vibes, that’s what you’ll get back.
And internet dating sucks for women too. Just in a different way. I’ve taken an extended sabbatical because I just couldn’t stomach it anymore. I’ve been on the same three sites for a year and the flow of emails has long since dried up to barely a trickle. Not that it was ever the tidal wave I was hoping for. Apparently, men only flood the inboxes of the very hottest women they come across. It doesn’t seem to matter that I have done my damndest to lose over 80 pounds and am almost back to normal weight. It doesn’t matter that I had professionally-done pictures. It doesn’t matter that I wrote an intelligent, witty essay free of grammatical errors. Guys would just glance at my pictures and then ignore me because I just wasn’t the all-out, drop-dead gorgeous woman they’re all holding out for. And the men who did contact me were largely not my type physically, didn’t want the same things I want (ie. marriage and kids), were too far away or way too old for me.
Are you looking at what these women want before you’re contacting them? If not, then you can’t blame them for not replying. I’ve had men contact me who were so wildly inappropriate that if I wasn’t so frustrated I’d have found it hilarious.
Jenn, you’re spot on. If you’re not drop dead gorgeous, you get ignored. I rarely get responses to my emails that are all tailored made because I read each profile thoroughly. I will always respond to a well thought out email but I will ignore one line emails.
I was on match.com in my early 40s. Unlike many posting here, I’m not going claim to look 15 years younger than my actual age or say that I’m unusually hot. I think I’m a nice-looking woman for my age with warm smile and good profile. I was certainly not bombarded by emails. Each one I received, I responded to.
Most men I “rejected” (I put rejected in quotation marks bc if someone who writes to me is far out of my geographic location, for example, I will not try to get to know him further, but I feel like it’s the long-distance element I’m rejecting, rather than him) were lovely and thanked me for writing, even though it was to say no thanks. I was touched by this and reminded that there is room for a bit of graciousness and humanity, even in online dating. A few men I “rejected” were not very pleasant and wrote nasty emails in return, but they were far outweighed by the polite guys and my personal experience informed my reactions.
That said/written, numerous female commenters on this site have received insulting, unpleasant responses to their rejections. As a result of this, they now choose to simply ignore men who do not interest them. If this had been my experience, I might have decided to do the same. Also, some guys have stated that they hate to have their OLD in-boxes filled with polite rejection emails; they’d rather that women simply ignore them if uninterested. So, as you can see, what seems acceptable to one person might seem impolite to another.
If I were at a party where a man began a conversation with a woman and she turned her back and walked away, I would think her rude. If he shrugged off her poor behaviour, I’d be impressed. However, if he called her a bitch, I’d think he was overreacting and probably rather angry person at heart. So please remember that in responding to impolite folk, the person who brushes it off with a smile is infinitely more appealing than the person who counters rudeness with rudeness.
I am a woman, 39, petite, fit, never married, no kids, no drama and I am fairly attractive in real life. I however am not attractive online. I have been on match twice, eharmony once. Eharmony was a waste of money. Less than a handful of matches a week. I send about two or three emails a month on match. I have had four guys ever email me back on match. One I dated a month, the other is a friend now, the other two were really nice “thanks, but no thanks.” I respond to all emails even if it’s the canned “thanks, but no thanks.” I have had several dates with the men who emailed me and only “entertaining” stories to show for it. Last one turned out psycho with anger issues because he thought I was breaking up with him after two dates and one phone call and absolutely no physical anything. Feeling pretty discouraged. Guess it’s time to revamp everything.
Kevin said: (#45)
“pretty darn frustrated with it and decided to call out this one particular woman who thought no response is a response. THIS she responds to and she turns around and calls me rude.”
She called you rude because you were rude. Why does this surprise you?
Kevin asked: (#45)
“What has taught women this is acceptable?”
Try to see it from the women’s point of view.
Imagine this:
When you log into Match.com tonight, you have 100 emails from different women. It takes you 45 minutes just to read them all, and 3 hours if you decide to read all of their profiles.
What’s worse, none of these women seem to have read your profile. You want a woman close to your age; some of these women could be your grandmother. You want a woman who lives reasonably near you; some of these women live over a thousand mile away (or on a different continent). You want a woman who is reasonably fit; some of these women are morbidly obese.
But you’re determined to be polite, so you spend 45 minutes copying and pasting a “Thanks, but no thanks.” to each of them before you delete their emails.
The next day, of the 100 women you said “no thanks” to, 25 wrote back to convince you to change your mind. 5 others wrote back to call you a bastard because you turned them down. AND … 100 new women sent you emails, all as equally unsuitable as the previous 100.
After 2 weeks of that scenario repeating itself, how much time each evening do you spend writing “no thanks” emails?
If you want women to respond to your emails, you need to stand out from the crowd. It’s not her fault that you don’t.
Karl,
I don’t care if the ugliest, fattest, most grotesque woman who lives 10,000 miles away wrote me. I’ll still have the decency to write something back to her. It’s not about whether or not you are interested. It’s about courtesy. Non-communication is incredibly rude. And if somebody won’t leave you alone even after the courtesy no, that’s why they have the block button. It’s not asking for the world to ask for a tiny amount of respect as a fellow human, as opposed to being treated as some sub-human unworthy of even the slightest communication.
Kevin said: (#48)
“I’ll still have the decency to write something back to her. It’s not about whether or not you are interested. It’s about courtesy.”
It’s also about time. After staying up late every night for a week trying to send a polite response to everyone, which becomes more important, being polite or taking care of your health?
You get how many emails from women per week? You have the luxury of having the time to craft a thoughtful rejection to every one that you’re not interested in.
Kevin said: (#48)
“It’s not asking for the world to ask for a tiny amount of respect as a fellow human, as opposed to being treated as some sub-human unworthy of even the slightest communication.”
Do you send polite responses to every company the mails/emails junk mail to you?
If the phone rings and you realize that it’s a telemarketer calling, do you answer the call or let it roll to voice mail? There’s another human on the line who is just as worthy of communication as you are.
If a woman isn’t interested in you, your unwanted, unsolicited email is the equivalent of junk mail. Those are the rules of the game. It doesn’t matter whether you like the rules or hate them, you won’t succeed unless you accept and play by them.
Here’s the dirty little secret that isn’t being spoke of. You see I have a lot of female friends. And I have A thirst for knowledge. Some of these women are online daters. Why does a woman get 100 emails? Oh, I’ll tell you why.
There is a search filter that will eliminate unsuitable matches from search results. Women who I personally know that date online tell me that when they put in all the attributes that they’re looking for they get very few ATTRACTIVE men in their results! If they ask for a non-smoker, no drugs, good job, lives within 25 miles, within 5 years of their age they get a low number of results with mostly average to below avg looks. So they BACK into the search and un-click the criterial until men with the attractiveness level they want appear in the results. They now have “allowed” more men into the room by decreasing the filtering and thus put up with the number of emails to get what they want and justify not answering because there are “too many” when the truth is they only want to talk to the ones they are attracted to. That’s a fact Jack!!
Okcupid.com, suprisingly, has a much, much, much better response rate for me. I also have way more guys contacting me. Oh, and the guys are generally better looking, less mainstream and yet less weird, more hip, and better educated.
Apparently, as the owner of okcupid points out in his article on this very topic, match has a lot of non-paying, phantom members who would have to pay to email you back. Apparently only 1 in 20 are even active members.
I get stares from guys all the time, although admittedly, I am a bit overweight (yet blessed with curves). The response rate on match- 5% or less. Okcupid, 20% at least. Craigslist is even better ,but more difficult due to pic exchange hassle issues.
I got to agreed with some of the guys here that the response rate on match.com is horrible. Even the ones that I get winks from don’t respond to emails. I don’t know what percentage of them are non-paying users and therefore can’t respond back. I admit my emails are not that long and only a few lines just to feel them out and see if they are interested. Maybe my emails just got buried with the rest of the 100 of emails they receive everyday that doesn’t stand out.
I decided to give match a try after doing eharmony last summer for a few months. Eharmony, I thought, was a big waste of time. It matched me with people that honestly had nothing in common with me and I couldn’t search for new people to talk to. I decided to cancel after 3 months and in my last 2 weeks of the subscription, met someone. We hit it off, and blah blah blah 4 months later, broke up due to it being more like a friendship than a relationship. Mutual breakup, no real deep chemistry, we just liked each other. So, this spring I decided, since my female friend found her husband on match, to try it. I got the 6 month deal and started out strong. First day, I sent about 10 emails and said to myself “self, if you get even 1 back, that’s good odds”. Well I got one back, we talked more and went out and she turned out to be the rudest person I think I have ever met, but such is life. Since then, I have had 0 responses. I write grammatically correct and well versed responses that is personalized to their profile. No copy paste, no similar style. I write exactly how I would talk to them if I met them in person and ask normal questions like: “Oh I see you went to France in that picture, how was it? I have always wanted to go” and similar things. Everything personalized. I swear, I have sent close to 45 personalized emails to people. Now, I am so put off by it, I think I just look to see who is out there. I haven’t sent an email in 3 weeks and got into a good fight with match’s customer service over their “supposed” member base (most in my demographic being active over 3 weeks). Worst money ever spent, but I am stuck with another 3 months of it (they offered me a $25 refund, and I didn’t take it…if all else, I can use this whole ordeal as experience). So, out of 43 emails (I just checked), I received 1 response. That is a 2% response rate. Awesome eh? I have received two winks that I followed up with emails to, and received nothing in return.
To help paint the picture here, I am a 23 year old male, a college graduate, I am a project manager at a construction firm, I love pets, I am in good shape (no, not the internet ‘good’, I go to the gym every day and work my butt off because I lost 45lbs since December). I am no 10, but I am not a 5 either. Maybe a solid 7? Better than average? I work a lot and have little time to just go out and meet people. I don’t drink to excess and don’t go to bars or clubs. This whole experience has left me amazed and possibly with far lower self-esteem than I went in with. My friend tells me “oh, all the girls here are just crazy then for not liking you” but with response rates like that, how can you not think there is something wrong with you?
I have never received an email from a woman, so I guess I have a 100% response rate…or 0%, depending on how you look at it. But if she sent me a personalized email, I would at least have the decency to respond. I have given up on ‘well thought out’ emails because I am not going to waste my time if I have a 1/43 chance of you even clicking the reply button.
I totally agree with you. The response rate for guys on not only match.com but every online dating site is pathetic. I experience the same thing. I see women checkin me out ALL the time when I got o clubs/bars but very low response online! I think the reason is because women get lots of messages everyday and therefore they start to think one day they going to get that ALL perfect Brad Pitt, george clooney type guy emailing them, which I think never happens but because of the number of messages, they do start to beleive thats going to happen!! lol
I just joined match within the past two weeks. I’ve sent several winks prior to paying for membership, but after paying, sent 3 emails. I realize it’s early, but no responses yet. I had 2 other emails sent to me, to which I responded with a “thanks but no thanks”.
I would always respond to a well thought out and personalized email. It shows the guy is genuinely interested and took the time to think of you. But that’s just me. It’s interesting to know that so few people are paying for match’s service. 1 in 20 – why bother? How else are you going to get in contact with these people if you don’t pay the fee?
Sounds like it may be time for me to check out okcupid.com. Good luck to all!
Im on to the farce,and have put out tele number to many with no calls back.The odds show that this couldnt happen unless something dishonest on the part of the site was in play…….
Erik-
I’m a woman- but I totally feel your pain. Also, if you’re 23 years old, maybe is that a factor? I haven’t done research, but I think internet dating tends to attract people more in their late 20s onward- so perhaps people around your age just aren’t non-paying members? Or at 23, just not taking dating seriously? I know I certainly didn’t at that age (which is partly why I’m in the mess I’m in now. LOL)
Sorry- I meant “paying’ members.
Well, this was an interesting little google-find. I’ve recently fired up Match.com and I’m having sod all luck. I’m 25, and in the usual mid twenties boat that you never find anyone your age when your out and about.
So, emails, winks, I don’t get it. I kinda went alone with the whole “View their profile, let them view mine back, then go from there” approach, but I’ve gotta be honest, I don’t class myself as an unattractive guy, and despite viewing profiles, nobody views it back! I’ve send a couple of responses to the questionaire things, and had nothing back. Sent a couple of quirky emails, nothing back!
@Dick – https://www.evanmarckatz.com/products/finding-the-one-online.html
Lemme know how you like it.
Stumbled across this site and enjoyed the message board. I would like to say that as a 35 year old male – I met my wife on match.com in early 2009. She contacted me. Most of the women I went out with (probably a dozen or so) contacted me. I wasn’t looking for a serious relationship but I’m happy to say I met the love of my life by chance due to an extremely short e-mail introduction on her part.
I’m a tall man with graying brown hair and definitely a few extra pounds. The tall part definitely helped as I remember looking at women’s profiles and whether they were 6’2″ or 4’11” – most wanted a tall man. My profile on match was long, detailed and fairly humorous. I gave women every opportunity to say no before deciding to contact me if they so choose – but it was also benign (I professed my favorite restaurant is Taco Bell and my profile picture was me in the corner of a bar picking my nose). I tried to make a profile that put women at ease so they would want to contact me. They said I could post 24 pictures – I posted 24. I gave women every chance to say “Yuck” or “Hmmmm…. he seems nice”. I was put off by how many people had bad profiles, typos, 2 pictures, angled self photos like they are 16 and posting on MySpace but want to hide the fact they are overweight, etc. My pictures were of me doing the things I enjoy – everything from skydiving to going to football games, to other extremes like picking my nose or having a plastic knife fight with my 4 year old nephew. If someone posted 20 pictures and 18 of them are from a webcam – I would guess they live with their parents and play a lot of video games.
That’s my 2 cents. Be yourself – accentuate your positives – put it all out there. I was in a loveless emotionally abusive marriage for 14 years. Never thought I would marry again as I thought no one was worth that commitment. But I have never been happier in my life and I actually owe it to match.com and someone stumbling upon me.
By the way – my wife is a little bit shy when it comes to dating – and in her 6 months on match went on two dates with two men, and was pretty much giving up and deleting her account when we met. So don’t give up too quick.
I’m not active on Match.com at this point (really just getting back into the dating world) but on a few other sites (free…where I’ve dipped my toe into the water so to speak) I’ve received about a 90% response to any emails I’ve sent (which is very few…I tend not to pursue guys. Which should also make online dating, well, interesting).
I have responded to perhaps 10% of the emails I’ve received? If that? I find that many guys don’t bother to put any effort into writing an email…and when I open one that says “U R Hott” or something equally stupid, it gets instantly deleted.
I guess it’s “good” to hear that I am not the only one who finds internet dating to be useless. I’ve never gotten any response except for a few “form letters”. Women are just as shallow as men and internet dating is based almost purely on looks. I agree that these sites are primarily for hot girls who probably get tons of messages (which they just ignore).
Ive been doing the Eharmony and Match simultaneously for the last month. Initially, I set my profile up on Match to take advantage of the free offer for 3 days. I reached out to 3 beautiful ladies in those 3 days and none emailed me back. No biggie, I cancelled before I had to pay. I went to Eharmony because I had heard they had a better success rate. They were much more expensive, but I decided to go for it since, unlike Match, I was able to pay in installments. What a huge ripoff that became. At least Match was fun to sign up for: it took about 30 minutes tops and I really got to customize what I was looking for. For all the hours I put in taking the Eharmony ‘personality tests’, so far my matches have all been women who are 2-3x my size, smoke, and way outside of my age specifications. On the very very rare occasion someone does get sent to me who seems like my type, you are expected to play this stupid game where you send each other job interview like questions for weeks at a time before you can actually talk. Course, I have tried to buck the system and just send off an email to someone I find attractive, but they end up not emailing me back either.
Back to Match: a week after I closed my membership (about 4 weeks ago) I noticed that the most beautiful, intelligent, fun profile of a young lady came to my blackberry. I mulled over whether or not to reach out to her, I decided to go for it, which is why I am now paying for Match in addition to Eharmony. In the most gentlemanly tone, I wrote her a well thought out, slightly witty, response to her profile. I checked and rechecked grammar and punctuation. Well, been 4 weeks, she never replied back. She did read the email, because I sprung for read receipt, so I know she is an active member.
I just dont get it. Men get bashed all the time for being insensitive. Why is it acceptable, as Kevin stated, for a woman to not reply back. Dont give me that crap about being busy and staying up all night…blah…blah…blah. We are all busy. Also, what’s up with women who are 5 ft 2in tall ‘requiring’ a 6 foot man? Did I miss something? That’s no different than me ‘requiring’ a specific cup size. It’s pretty demeaning either way if you ask me. If being polite is too taxing on you, then you deserve to be single the rest of your life!
Btw, I am an director with one of the nations largest financial firms. 35. Very well educated. I work out 5 days a week and it shows in my pics (not that my pics are cocky). Im exactly 6 feet tall, about 190 lbs (that part wasnt in my profile, but I wanted to stress). I left income blank at first, and after the lackluster responses, decided that I would have to put something in that catagory so I went with $75k, a gross understatement but, I didnt want to sound like I was lying. That got me my 1 and only reply: a lady who sent me “sorry, you dont make enuf” and that was her entire response (she even spelled enough like that) to an email that I sent her that started out by complementing her for the hard work she does raising her kids and ended with me engaging in a book she listed.
Very, very, rude. I rather go sit in some bar somewhere.
I had used match.com and out of all winks and email I have sent I would say I got a 1% rate response. And I keep very active on it. So I am setting to think that I might be very freaking ugly lol.
But that’s fine because I know what I am worth
:0)
I believe is way easier for girls to get responses back when they are the ones contacting the other person.
With so many men and women on these dating sites one would expect a much better success rate. Could it be that everyone is simply chasing the unattainable? I see guys all the time complaining about the fake profiles of scammers (very beautiful women who look like supermodels posing in front of event backgrounds – lol-)
Is there an unreasonable standard of beauty or success being established by fakers (and a few legitimate stunners) so that the other real people on the dating site are deemed to fall short? I dont send out a lot of mail but my return rate is 70% – 80%. Last week I wrote to a guy who had a well written and witty profile though I really did not find him attractive. He did not write back – lol – And there I was thinking that I had lowered the bar by writing to him.
Online dating has been quite a learning experience. Personally I believe that there are too many unrealistic expectations, so instead of success there is bitter disappointment.
Ive been on match.com for about a week now. But as luck would have it, no luck. I have sent out over 30 emails with no response. Most of the women that I have emailed have read them but nothing. Im not one to think that im the best looking guy, but i do look good, well built and have a great personality. Every single email I sent was short but carefully written. What in the world do these women on here want?? Im 33 and divorced. If you look at most of the womens profiles on match.com that are in my age group they even state that they dont want to meet someone who has ever been married or has children! What century are they living in! This 2011 for christs sake! I didnt display my income but what the hell! Maybe I should then I might get a response. Luckily I only signed up for one month. If I still dont recieve any responses right when my term is up then forget it. Ill take my chances the old fashioned way. At least I will get a response of either”no interested” or “sure ide love to go out with you sometime”.
I’ve been in a few relationships off match and seem to be getting better at getting responses. I do live in the NYC area and the higher pool of people can have something to do with it. I am on here now and get a few winks a week and the occasional email. My response rate from sending emails (I never wink) is about 30-40%. 5 years ago it was very low and I attribute improving my profile to my success. I do read profiles and send something that highlights it only if I seem to fit what shes looking for. I have had issues getting a second response in some cases. I’m sure it’s just something better in her eyes has come along. There’s a lot of competition out there, but I still land dates (haven’t found anything lasting yet this go around). I think match works better if you’re in larger cities.
Wow, I had no idea match was that rough for guys! I’m a girl in my 30s who looks much younger (I still get carded) and I will say I do generally wink at guys vs write – but I fully read profiles (have learned from past relationships, I don’t care what you look like, there are certain dealbreakers for me, aka if a guy goes clubbing every night he’s not for me)…. anyway, I do have to say re: height, etc, etc – what kind of girls are you writing? Only the super-hot model types? (I’m “cute” vs “hot”) – I have many, many guy friends and am amazed at the guy talk I sometimes hear at a bar, one friend got pissed that the waitress was too superficial to consider him. She was 22 and gorgeous, he was 40something and not in shape/didn’t take care of himself. But, I’m either attracted or not to a certain extent – we all have types, and if for whatever reason (you might look like my bratty cousin) I can’t imagine smooching a guy, I don’t think its worth wasting time exploring it. If you’re honest, you would feel the same way about a girl you weren’t attracted to, right?
I do respond to emails – with a yes or a no – if they’re personal and the guy seems nice, BUT, not if he ignored what I’m looking for. AKA – if he’s 10 years older than what I listed and far away, he can’t expect me to respond. As far as wanting someone never married without kids – I don’t think that’s unreasonable, its just preference. I’m in my 30s, never married, no kids, and I DO understand wanting someone who is in a similar place – I was in a relationship with a guy with kids once, but still think there would be something nice about experiencing all of that for the first time with someone – of course, in a big city, its easier to find that demographic because so many people (like myself) were more career minded in their 20s. Anyhow, interesting discussion, and hang in there guys – there ARE nice girls on the sites…
From the girls perspective:
I’m 37 and I’m divorced and I’ve been on match.com for a week and I have over 250 emails in my inbox. Many of them are well written and funny but there is no way that I can respond to all of them. At first I tried even if I didn’t find the guy attractive at all. Part of the problem is that people send you emails when they are far outside of your search criteria. I’m not interested in dating someone 15 years older no matter how good looking or how rich. I probably respond to maybe 20% and even that is completely overwhelming. As for winks, I don’t even have time to look at those. I do feel bad that I can’t respond to everyone but I’m ready to get off match just because the time committment is insane…
For the men and the women out there – if you email people who are looking for you – the odds will improve. Over half of the emails I have received are from guys who are older than what I am looking for – sure age is just a number but I really want someone my own age and when there are 50 emails from guys within a year or two of my age and who live within 10 miles of me… well…. who do you think I am emailing back?
Jeff, if you are 33 and divorced, women probably do yiew you as a potential risk. I am 35 myself and am leery of getting involved with a divorced woman because I know that statistically speaking, someone who has been divorced once is more likely to get divorced a second time than in someone who gets married for the first time.
Things are a little different for me. I’m 32. I live in the sticks, I don’t want kids, and I’m above average in looks with an athletic build. I’ve had (2) 1 year relationships close but not quite back-to-back…both I met on match.
I don’t spend alot of time on writing well thought out emails. I keep them light and playful. I’ve also found that less is more…this leaves more the the imagination, which adds to the mystery and intrigue of meeting someone you don’t know heightening the excitement on the first date. It “almost” makes meeting someone on match seem natural haha. In the emails I do write through my response is 21%. The past month 43 emails, 9 responses, I didn’t ask any of them out…4 asked me out after extensive pre-date dialogue….talk about role reversal.
For gods sake its a dating site to meet and chat,, not a competition to see who can be the next Shakespeare
I think to sit there and compose a well written and detailed mail is pretty time consuming and i think even creepy. You see a girl online you need to bag her attention and fast before she logs or meets mr right!!! I think most people who cliam to write massive mails just cut paste then ammend as seen fit… Id perfere not to do that but give a
cheeky hello, your profile is great and you seem to be really nice. I would like to converse sometime!! Hope your well!! Send a wink!!
Why cant it be as simple as the above “decoded its basicly”, im hot, your hot,, lets talk… And If your still talking over the next couple of days after the initial hi then jobs a gooden… None of this,, oh if he hasnt got time to send me a mail then i wont reply to his wink… WTF!!!! If your playing games already then you desever to stay single… I dont do winks,, like your better than somebody who, 1)knows what they want and 2)Isnt afraid to let a potential partner know this, by saying your hot!! I think too many girls play too many games…
You know,, i dont want to spend anymore time than i have too when meeting girls,, its 2011 and i could meet 20 girls and get several numbers on a night out!! If anything people just need to be more honest,, no im not interested but thanks…
I don’t see the womens’ stories and the mens’ stories being congruent in this thread lol. Almost every woman on here has claimed to respond to every email even if it is for rejection. And almost every man has claimed 0% response for rejections. Frankly, I don’t believe what the women have said in this thread. None of us believe you when you say looks don’t matter either. There, I said it.
I can’t disagree with Karl R more. These women are PAYING to meet people…JUST to meet people. And you’re comparing that to unwanted sales telephone calls? How is that at all the same? They come to the site to get emails from like-minded fellas, and then the emails they get are so loathsome(the ones they’re paying a fee just to get) that they are completely justified in utterly ignoring it. Oh I just feel so sorry for those poor ladies. Oh, how they must be suffering. How we annoy them with all those thoughtful and personal emails–it must just be awful for them.
Women rule the world and no one even sees it. We get to beg for their scraps IF were handsome enough and make enough money. “If you don’t play the game, then, on a dating site, where we are all coming together to meet people of common interests, the man has to compose an email so perfect to deserve her attention, that its as if God has given him the power of poetry and foresight into her thoughts.
“You won’t succeed unless you accept and play by the rules”. Guess who makes the rules Karl?
I have never had a great deal of success with match.com. I’m extremely liberal, kind of unconventional and live in an extremely conservative area. I would say my response rate is less than 2 percent on match. It was the same when I was 26, 33 and now at 35.
The kind of guys I have gone out with in the past are similar to me, liberal, quirky, cool and maybe a little nerdy. I’m not necessarily looking for the same kind of guy I’ve always dated but a guy would have to like those qualities in me.
So, my success ratio is low for responding to people and people responding to me. I just don’t like many people I come across on that site and really no one seems to like me and I’m ok with that.
But hope springs eternal.
I did meet my last bf on match though so there you go, even if 1000 out of 1000 people don’t respond or don’t interest you, you only need to find 1 compatible person.
I love OK Cupid though, nearly 100 percent of guys I write to write back to me and I respond to about 15 or 20 percent who write to me.
“15-20%” Why so low? :\
My brother is on Match.com and he used to get 0 responses…yes 0! He allowed me to look over his profile and emails to women. I insisted he take professional pics, but with natural poses, doing things. Then, I added pics of action shots, even though they were far away shots of my brother jetskiing, rock climbing. Then…and here is the key…I emailed the women. I was flirty, sweet, yet a little cocky. My brother is getting many responses and dates. It’s all about the picture, then you have to send emails that make you seem confident. Replies have to be a little flirty and sarcastic. for example; If she asks what your favorite restaurant is, you should say ” I don’t devulge my secret gems online “…something like that…cocky and sarcastic. But, don’t over do the sarcasm..just once per email is enough. Thats my 2 cents.
I’d say less than 5%. I don’t know where all these guys are that are waiting for girls to message them back. I also don’t see the point of taking a long time to write them a thoughtful message when there is a 95% chance they will not respond. I usually write something brief and include something about their profile. Every once in awhile I get a message that says something like- you are beautiful. Wow, thanks, what good is that?
I’m a fit male in my mid 50s, and I’ve been on Match for a week. The response rate (80%) to my emails is so high I have a hard time keeping names and faces straight. Winks get a 30% return. I have women initiating contact, both winks and emails, and I respond to both.
<p>My secrets?
<p>1) I know how to craft an interesting email.
<p>2)It is a waste of time to contact an exceptionally beautiful woman. Most of these women don’t even bother to check out my profile and the ones who do, don’t respond. At first I thought their non-response was some failing on my part, but then I poked around and discovered they receive 1,000 emails a week. Competing with 999 males for a return email is just nuts.
<p>3)I hint at affluence in my profile. Stress on hint. Most of the women who contact me have careers, are educated and nice looking, and absolutely do not want a man who is not self-sustainable. They aren’t looking for a wallet, but they do want someone who can keep up with their lifestyle.
<p>This is my first experience with online dating. It’s a sterile sorting process and very productive if a guy wants to put in the effort. I bought a month but won’t renew my membership. I know an addictive site when I see one, and I’m too busy to spend hours every day in cyber world.
I agree less than 5% of men respond to my emails. I had my profile professionally written by match.com and I still don’t receive responses to my emails.
I’m starting to think that I don’t sound good on paper.
Very frustrating experience!
You guys are gonna hate me. Between Match and OKCupid I only sent out a handful of emails, but pretty sure I got a 100% response, or close to that. (I have to add though, none of these people worked out in the end.) The trick is to be genuinely curious about something in his profile, have a burning question about it, and ask the question. (e.g. “Where does your band play? My girlfriends and I would love to come hear it next time we get together for a night out”). Now that I think of it, guess it has to be a practical question… now’s the time to pretend that he is your guy friend and you’re having an idle, no-pressure chat.
A couple times I favorited a guy, and he responded by writing back… saving me the work of putting an email together 🙂
I do not respond to most of the emails I get though… I tried to respond to all at first, but after a while, they all start to look the same and it’s just too much work if you know you don’t want to meet the guy anyway. Someone on OKCupid just wrote to me a few hrs ago calling me “Miss Selective Responder”… haha
I’m glad I found this website. I’m a 27 years old Italian men living in USA (I relocated from Italy 3 years ago). I’ve been on Match for about 4 months. Initially I only sent messages to girls I had things in common with and got a response of about 1% (1 response out of 100 sent). Later, after losing hope completely, I messaged all kinds of people, even girls I would totally reject in real life and surprisingly I still got the same response rate.
I am a young good looking (I’m not a model but have the typical italian face with black hair and blue eyes), well educated, smart Italian men (I even have an accent and from what I know girls like that).
Conclusion? My self-esteem clearly is being affected by this but I suppose, as someone mentioned already, these girls are getting hundreds of emails each week/month so they don’t even consider people who might be interesting. I like the concept of Eharmony.com..you only get about 10 matches every day etc because like this you don’t have people sending tons of messages to girls. The only problem is that from what I’ve seen on Eharmony, girls are less attractive and want a serious commitment to leads to marriage. Not that I’m against that but I’d rather take things slowly.
Let’s all don’t give too much importance to these dating sites and hopefully we’ll find someone in real life.
* I agree, a polite “No Thanks, not interested.” should be sent EVERY TIME. These girls that simply ignore you are totally rude.
Maybe 5% (this is generous) of men in the tri-state area on Match.com are really looking for a relationship. Keeping that percentage in mind, approximately 1 out of 15 men will respond to an email initiated by a woman. A male friend said that women should use the “wink” feature and my response was “really???”.
I generally don’t do this, LR, but you’re flat-out wrong. A recent Match poll said, “Men are just as inclined to want to get married as women. In fact, 33% of men and 33% of women said they want to get married.” This isn’t even counting the number of divorced men who may be looking for a relationship without imminent marriage.
Furthermore, according to OkCupid, men respond to anywhere from 25% to 50% of women’s first emails.
Which just makes two things very clear, LR:
1) Your experience is certainly not universal.
2) If your experience really suggests that 5% of men are relationship oriented and 8% of men write back to your first emails, maybe you should try a new way of approaching online dating.
Because lots of other people are having considerably better success than you on Match. Why do you think that is?
Because first messages sent by women – especially within age ranges where women are either surfeited with male-initiated messages or more traditional – are so novel, it’s actually easier to rustle up a decent response rate than a man. All 15 men want SOMETHING from online dating, and not responding to mail would preclude all of it.
Here’s my problem
I understand women receive tons of emails each day, but if they don’t intend to at least mark “Thanks but no thanks”, then why are they taking the time to read the emails?
Clearly, all of the emails I have sent are read, yet I have never received a “Thanks but no thanks”, and I wish I did. I would like to use the site as a general critique of my profile and why women did not want to date, etc.
With that said, I’m with most people here and have ~10% rate, with a few girls emailing me in this first month– and I only attribute that to the fact that I’ve traveled all over the world, and a particular type of girl finds that intriguing.
my two cents…I first joined Match back in 2006…I remember having a great hit rate…I had a few women initiate contact to me…though most of the winks I received were worthless..I remember joined in April of that year..my pics were good looking…as my success rate initiating contact with women..it was 40-50%…I remember putting some thought into my e-mails..and I did have good pics I suppose…I just remember getting a lot of attention…I met maybe 16-18 women and I know total I e-mailed no more than 40 or so different women…most of them were attractive..as far as success in dating them..at least half of them there was some intimate contact (at a minimum, kissing)….ended up having sex with quite a few of them..would have been more, but I just didn’t have the time to keep up with all of them..also, to what someone said earlier about Yahoo..I remember having almost like a 70% (if not higher success rate there)…as far as actually meeting women after e-mailing or chatting…
now my 2nd experience on Match was in 2007…I can’t remember how many e-mails I sent..but at that time I remember meeting 4 women (there was a 5th one I was going to meet..but I didn’t keep up with her..she was attractive, but I had to travel a lot for work at that time)…I may have e-mailed at most 15 women?…not sure maybe it was a little lower…of the four dates…one woman was crazy about me, we had sex on the first date..the other one, we had two dates..but nothing ever happened..the third one, she was not that good looking, the 4th one..just nothing there…
my 3rd Match experience..late 2009…
anyway, I met 6 women (was chatting with a total of 8..the other two, I really wanted to meet, and they were open to it,,but I just didn’t have the time)..so I remember the first three I met. I arranged three dates on a Sat..one for breakfast..one for an early dinner and one for drinks at night..the first one, we hit it off..we had been texting for a couple weeks prior and ended up having sex..the 2nd woman I met that day..she was just a bit heavy..not too bad or anything, I let her give me a bj and the third women..very pretty..very..we seemed to have a good time..and at the end of the date..she initiated a very intimate kiss with me..we planned for a 2nd date..but a week before our 2nd date, she cancelled saying she felt we didn’t have good enough chemistry..the other three women..nothing really came of it..one was due to our schedules, the other was just not pretty and the other one, just nothing there…but my overall repsonse rate, again, at least 40%
now, for the bummer, on Match again…2011..wow..very pitiful response rate..have I lost my power? lol..started off well, but i have e-mailed, I will say 30 women? I have received liked 3-4 e-mails back…don’t know what I am doing wrong this time..lol
@ Marcus: “don’t know what I am doing wrong this time..lol”
Word got out about you? lol
I mean, seriously? three dates in one day, two of them resulting in sex??? You let her give you a BJ? Damn, you’re kind… What was the end goal of this, um, Saturday activity? Please tell me you made this whole story up… help me save what’s left of my faith in humanity.
@ Marcus — Well you are 5 years older now than when you started….has your age preference crept up 5 years too? If not, that might be the problem.
My experience w/ internet dating has been much like TJ’s @77. There are many things that will have an effect on your success. Some we can control, some we can’t. I don’t think I’m particularly handsome but from talking with the women I date it appears that 50 year old men, who are slim, very well educated, and employed are in very short supply.
My advice:
1. Don’t waste time on the “hotties”, it’s like buying a lottery ticket. Take an honest assessment of your qualities. If you are 50 pounds overweight, have a high school education, and make $20,000/yr – chances are that you will not be attractive to a neurosurgeon who runs 2 marathons a month and is ten years younger than you.
2. Pictures, pictures, pictures – The more pictures you have of yourself, the longer someone will be looking at your “advertisement”. I don’t know who has suggested that women include pictures of sunsets, puppies, and group photos – what guys really want to see is YOU. Don’t forget the “body shot” pictures – if a guy sees nothing but head shots he will wonder what is below and might decide that you are hiding something.
3. Profile – If you are truly “hot” you can write absolutely nothing and still get hundreds of emails. For the rest of us, well, you better spend some time working on that profile. Read Evan’s e-book or pay a couple of bucks to have his staff write your profile. If you write your own profile, please, please, please make it interesting – put something in there that will stoke the imagination of the reader — pique his/her interest. Saying you like to watch movies is boring. Saying you like to cuddle on the couch, sipping wine, and watching movies while practicing the lessons you learned from watching a “how to give a great full-body massage” video will certainly draw a bit more attention.
Me: ivy league grad, military, bilingual. I’m no brad Pitt but certainly no ugly midget (5′ 11″, 180 lbs, low body fat). I have 10 pictures up, I have my shirt on for all of them, one of them is of me doing something enjoy, another with friends to show I have a life and the requisite social skills for at least some people to like me. One was in uniform too because the ladies “love a man in uniform” which I’m starting to think is not the case. My profile is well written and free of errors.
My stats: with a sample size of 200 emails over 10 months, 45% didn’t open the email OR look at my profile. Of the 55% that actually opened the email, 90% looked at my profile, leaving 99 of 200 women who gave me some consideration…of these 99 women only 5 ever responded. So that’s about a 2.5% response rate per for all emails sent and none of those responses led anywhere. It looks a lot like the odds in Vegas; they favor the house. So I guess that means I’m either a lot uglier than I thought or maybe girls are turned off by the military. I’m not going to be cynical and say that women suck or something because that’s just false. Women are great, they just don’t seem to like me right now haha. I’m sure there’s something I can tweak in my profile or I’ll just have to wait till I’m out of the military and back in grad school. If anyone has insight into the problem that would be helpful
Hi
I’m a 39 year old guy in the UK.
I’ve been with Match.com for 2 weeks now and I’m already fairly disillusioned. I’ve sent about 30 e-mails, some quite long for the girls I really like, but most short and to the point.
In total I’ve had 4 winks (3 from women I’m not interested in and 1 from someone I’m thinking of writing to), I’ve also had 2 e-mail replies, 1 test completed, and 1 e-mail initiated by one of the girls.
My profile has been checked 110 times.
I responded with a thanks but not thanks to the girl who wrote to me. Of the other two, 1 wrote having clearly read my profile, it was a long entertaining mail and I quickly wrote back only to discover I had been blacklisted! No idea why, I have no secrets, maybe she just changed her mind.
The other mail was the real nut cruncher. I really liked the look of this girl, great profile, great pics, just my type. Genuinely thrilled when she wrote back to me asking about meeting up, I replied that I’d like to and would she like to name a time and place, she responded that she was free next Friday from 6pm, I replied that I was too. No response. I wrote again to confirm as that date approached…….and……blacklisted!
So I’m stumped. No idea what’s going on.
Good luck out there, dating’s far tougher than I remember it.
I’m 38 and have been on match a few times. I remember having a better response rate when I was 35 and under, but not much better.
I have kept detailed stats on my go round this time.
After looking at a large sample size of profiles -3000 profiles – I found 6% or 184 attractive women who I emailed, of which 6% or 13 responded to my initial email, of which a little less than half – 6 – turned into a first date, of which 4 turned into second dates. Had sex with 2. And 1 made it to a 4th date.
Match has lots of dead profiles-35%- sort by activity date. If they haven’t been on the site in a week it’s a dead profile and not worth the time to email. I think most guys probably have between 1-10% response rate depending on their looks and profile.
I get emails and winks from women but rarely find them attractive enough to respond.
I have a creative profile, but my emails are weak.
I wrote to about 60 women and have not received a single response. I’m 32, 5’9” lean athletic (my pictures show that. and all of the pics are respectable) I have a grad degree, full head of hair. The catch is that I am of Indian decent. I don’t take this rejection personally as I understand I am not the typical guy a american girl grows up dreaming about. I am born here and do not have a accent but that does translate in my pics. In my pics I look like a foreigner. Geography and culture have a lot to do with the replies you get on Match. I did get those automated “sorry we are not a good match” replies several times. I did respond back to the automated rejections by telling them it was all good and I wished them the best of luck. which is how i truly feel. So thats my statistic 🙂
Ok so Its Andre again, now sent 200 emails none back. I think I have figured out what the problem may be. I have met a lot of women in real life, I am a good talker and have been told have a witty personality and this has compensated my handicap of being ethnic. The problem with the internet is there is no way a I can relay my personality, I can’t make a girl laugh the way I do on the supermarket line. It is very impersonal. Getting back to the emails, I am not just sending them to hot girls. Just to test I sent them to women ranging from 18-50! from skinny to a few extra pounds. So all you guys who have sent 40-50 emails and have not gotten any responses..don’t feel bad. I’m having fun with this thing. I can BET even if I send 1000 emails I won’t get a response back. What this did teach me is how powerful perception is. Anywho cheers 🙂
A little off the beaten path..
The point is that these women are dropping the ball. If you’re fun, interesting, confident, convey it and they don’t see it. How frustrating is that? For THEM!! They continue to respond to the tricks. In the meantime great, high status men can use this frustration to better themselves. So when a the woman comes along with the right eyes, her world is Rocked!
@ Andre, I am an immigrant from Eastern Europe, I do have an accent and I’ve lived here 15 years. Not exactly the same situation as yours, but similar enough that I can relate. My advice, try a different site. Match is tough for anyone who doesn’t fit into the conventional mold 100%, at least that was my impression. After 200 emails and no response, I think it’s safe to say that this particular site is not working out.
I once tried to fix a casual female friend of mine up with a former coworker who’d just gotten divorced… awesome guy, smart, funny, great to work with, grew up in Europe and lived most of his life here… of Indian descent. Would’ve asked him out myself if I wasn’t still married at the time! So I message my friend with his info and she’s excited, but wants to see pictures. I send her a link to his FB page and she writes back, “WTF, he looks like a terrorist?” O_O not only did I never introduce her to him or anyone else ever again, I eventually removed her from my FB… but this is what we immigrants are up against here in the Midwest. With me, I make a good first impression because I look European. Then I open my mouth and people freak out and ask me if I’m a KGB agent or a spy (the spy thing was pretty hot last year, every guy on Match thought it was such a witty thing to ask… sheesh).
I’ve got to ask though, what do you put in your first email? it has to be tailored to a woman’s profile. Personally, I used to get a fair amount, more than I could respond to, so I only replied to the ones that were brief, to the point, and asked specific questions about something in my profile… and were more or less witty. You say you sent 200… this makes me wonder how personalized they were.
Depends on who your emailing…if they’re super hot, then it’s a fat chance you’ll get a response. Batting in your own league might get more responses. Girls are picky (most girls that is) and they get bored easily. Even if you are a good looking guy, you have to understand that there is a huge barrier between you and them which you must get past before you’re in. Match.com shouldn’t be the only tool in your tool kit. Your best chance is getting out there in person at places other than bars and clubs. Also, FB is a good place since girls are naturally more trusting of men that are somehow connected to their social network. Don’t waste your time barking up a tree that you will never climb. That means no long emails, no research into profiles. I’ve had great success on online dating websites, but it’s because I keep it simple and move on when I think I may be wasting my time. What do you do when you are first introduced to someone? You say hi. Well that’s pretty much how short my emails are. I say “Hi”, and “How are you.” Also, I look at two things, their pictures and their job. You can pretty much gleam everything you need to know about someone from these two things. Who cares about their nerdy bios??? Time is valuable, don’t waste it!
@ 95
Also, I look at two things, their pictures and their job. You can pretty much gleam everything you need to know about someone from these two things. Who cares about their nerdy bios???
LMAO, did I ever date you Dean?? This is so wrong and hilarious at the same time.
What do you do when you are first introduced to someone? You say hi. Well that’s pretty much how short my emails are. I say “Hi”, and “How are you.”
“Hi” works fine when you are first introduced in a social setting, at an event you both came to because you both wanted to be there, by someone you both know. Not online. Never have I ever responded to a “hi” email. To me it says “I’d hit anything on this site that today’s random search has dragged in, if its photos look good enough. Today, it just happened to be you, whoever you are. Congratulations, you’re the winner!” Um, nope.
Only thing I totally agree with in your comment, is “no long emails”. A loooong email says “I’m a desperate dude who loves to hear himself talk”, and why would anyone want to go out with that? Besides, I’ve never been able to finish reading one! I’d say keep it under five lines if you’re a man, two lines if you’re a woman.
Also, FB is a good place since girls are naturally more trusting of men that are somehow connected to their social network.
This is the second time I’m hearing this from a man, and I do not get it. How? how can any social network where people have their parents, children, bosses, and clients on their friends list, be a “good place” for meeting new people and dating? Besides, mine is locked down pretty tight, same is true for most people I know. Might be the case for school/college-age kids, but not my age group.
For a lot of men, this is almost a pointless discussion. If you’re below 5ft 10, you should consider other ways of meeting women particularly a setting were personality can be important. Online dating is likely to be a source of much frustration & consternation. It doesn’t matter whether you’re successful, write a good profile, decent looking, in shape bla bla bla, being short or shorter than average is the absolute kiss of death online. You’ll be ignored….a lot! And few women will actively search for you either. Cold harsh reality I’m afraid!
Similarly if you’re a girl who’s fat and/or ugly, don’t waste your time either! Most men have only emailed you because the good looking ones ignored them. Harsh but true. They’ll likely only want to meet you for sex and if that’s not on the cards, they’ll flake on you too.
TOTALLY AGREE with you!!! I am much below 5,10 and still girls hit on me ALL the time in a club/bar but when it comes to online dating I hardly get any response from women! lol
Soooo . . . I have a match profile that is not active and I don’t log on. The other day, I received email notification from Match saying I had received a message. I thought it was a gimmack to get me to sign up again.
That would be funny if it was from Andre. Haha.
Hi,
I too joined match and trust me If you are an average guy who earns just a little over 100k you are much better trying your luck at a bar or any other social event. I am a average looking(before match I actually thought I was handsome) 29 year old guy and wrote personal emails to about 107 girls and got no responses I kept deteriorating to way older and not that great looking girls but still no luck. I guess It is true girls get around 100-200 emails a day and if there is someone checking match in 2-3 days it can really get overwhelming Plus half of those girls aren’t even paid members so All your compositions are never going to be read. So far this one week of match has been so much of a confidence killer Its almost like voting for American Idol and expecting a date. Now I check the singles party and attend those. You have more girls than guys and decent ones and guess what you already have a date. and to all the REAL guys out there its my serious advise get out of the house and win a lady. with match you will have to settle for way less that is if you do get a response
Hey everyone,
I guess this is kind of a great venting room for us all. I do think the whole online dating is completely ridiculous and girls on there often use it for ego boosts. I just signed up for match three days ago and have sent out 53 emails so far. Reponses: ZERO. I was prepared for very lil’ reponse as that is what I’ve heard from friends as well. Needless to say I will end my trial session in 7days. I am in my early 30s athletic make good money, am kind hearted and loyal yet I get absolutely no responses. It is rather diheartening but I refuse to believe that I am not a catch just because some super superficial girls or on these sites. And mind you I’m not “ugly”. If anything I’ve been told on many occassions I’m very good looking not just from exes but strangers too. It just seems like if you aren’t 6’2″ blonde haired and blued eyed stereotypical “high status” looking male the girls online want nothing to do with you. All guys here I say keep your heads up. Don’t believe the bs out there online and get outside to meet girls. I know I will be doing that myself tomorrow!! =oP And I’ll say my “hit ratio” in real life is closer to one in 3 I’ll get a number and a date.
Cheers men…keep your heads up!
Ivan
Ivan @ 99 –
Don’t give up, it’s only been 3 days!
If you live in a large city, the attractive women are going to be overwhelmed with emails. Instead of being the hunter, kick back and try being the hunted. Post plenty of great pics and write a great profile.
I don’t know if the response rate actually varies depending on what size city you live in but I know a couple of other guys in the 40-50 age group on Match have no problem in my city of about 250k. Then again, it might just be that women in your age group are ultra-selective.
Best of luck.
I’m a 25 year-old male. I make decent money for a full-time job, am finishing work on a Bachelor’s, and have been told by female friends that I am attractive. Actually, at a recent meeting with some women I went to high school with who did not find me particularly attractive then, several told me that I “got hot.” I don’t do anything wild or crazy, but I usually have no problem entertaining friends. Basically, in spite of an arduous struggle in childhood, everything has been coming together very nicely for me in the past couple years.
That said, I get no messages whatsoever on any dating site, be it responses or profile-generated interest. I have friends and acquaintances who have weight problems, addictions, or weird complexes (one’s a diagnosed sociopath) who have had no issues in this area of life whatsoever, and yet, this does not seem to be coming together in my case.
So I have been on match for what seems like forever. My experience seems to go up and down. I read a lot of the responses on here, glanced at a few and I think what guys need to take into consideration is the time of the year. Right now, my match account is cancelled, cc issues that I may fix after my date Saturday if things don’t go well. This is a busy time of the year, however it is a good time of the year. New Years is coming up and match should see an influx of women coming in. Also, internet dating is becoming socially acceptable with the rise of FB and Twitter.
I haven’t looked at my response rate, but I would guess it is in the 25% rate. I am tall (6’1) and in decent shape. Could stand to lose 10-15. I play hockey and have a great smile with nice teeth. The women who usually email me are over weight. The women I email are pretty to hot and sometimes I get responses from the hot ones because I write short, witty emails. However, that is rare. Usually I just get read.
It is hard to put inflections in text or make something seem a little dirty when it reads clean. Unless you are a wordsmith, then it is hard to do that. I think your profile takes a lot of time to work, experiment with different email, try long and custom or short and witty. That is the benefit of internet dating, it costs $20-30 a month, look how much you would have to spend on bars trying to hit on women. Gas money to get there, then beer to drink, if you liked mixed drinks, that gets even more expensive.
If I had to add up all of the women I have met from match over a 2 year period, I would say I have meet about 15-20 women. And out of those women, I had sex with about 3 of them. I try not to sleep around, but it is really hard not to when they text you to come over and handle business.
I also think a lot of communication is based upon where you live and the population density is. I live in the Silicon Valley which is heavily populated. I also take into consideration what the women are looking for, if they want someone within 10-15 miles of SF and you live 50 away, you are lowering your chance of response, because you are emailing outside of her requirements. That is then skewing your results decreasing your response because you are using the shot gun method. You know what they say, quality over quantity.
I think I put some helpful comments in what I wrote. Good luck fishing. I’m also curious to see what other sites people are on besides match, if that is OK to post.
I’m a 36 y/o female living in new york. I write a lot of emails and have used Evan’s ebook in both creating my profile and figuring out how to write emails. I’m on match and ok cupid. Less than 10% of men write back to me. It’s strange because Evan’s approach makes a lot of sense, so I figured that I’d get a huge response. I do get a lot of compliments on my profile, but often from men on the other side of the country or significantly, significantly older. Maybe the “competition” is too high in nyc. I am a little surprised that as a woman, so few men are responding to my emails. I’m reading this particular post to see if other women have the same experience.
Listen up men, internet dating does not work for most guys.
There is no way to show charm, sense of humor, and your awesome personality.
You will be judged on your height, your salary, your age, your race.
There is a lot of evidence based on thousands of dating site interactions that show that only the top men are being responded to.
Think about it, how is it possible for women to be overwelmingly successful, and men to be overwelmingly UNsuccessful AT THE SAME TIME ?
This can only be possible if a comparatively small number of men are getting most of the replies. Of course if the women actually succeed in dating any of these guys, they will probably eventually get rejected anyway so it doesn’t work for them either really.
Listen up, Zaq. I built a business around the concept that there is such a thing as successful online dating. If 17% of all marriages in the past 3 years started online…it seems to me that there are MANY successful men. It’s not just the “top 17%”, that’s for sure. Most of the players just keep on playing.
So what I deduce from your statement is that you’re just not successful, that’s all – and you’re extrapolating your experience as if it’s all men’s experience. It’s not. I dated online as a 5’9″ guy who made less than $30K a year. What did I have going for me that allowed me to get responses when guys like you were being rejected? A creative profile and funny first emails. Try working on that, instead of saying that an entire medium that 50 million people have tried does not work.
Evan
I completely agree that it is possible to improve your chances on a dating website by making your profile more interesting. Those following your advice WILL improve their chances.
BUT, online dating is deeply flawed. If I remember correctly the statistic on marriages was from all online activity and not just dating websites, who only accounted for half (or so, cant remember exact figures.)
So I stand by my statement that for MOST men it doesn’t work. Given the huge amount of singles who have tried online dating, every other person you meet should have met online. The OKCupid founder showed that using Match’s own data, it wasn’t working well.
Of the friends I know who have used it over the last few years (about 5), they are still single. I did meet a couple earlier this year who met online, BUT not using a dating website. Interestingly the woman was significantly less attractive. I know someone, who knows someone who did meet using a dating web site. We all knows someone who knows someone.
I fully accept your view that there is no other viable alternative. I guess Facebook will probably replace the Match type dating method.
Just a thought to all of US who look at someone’s picture and think they are not attractive enough to respond to their email. (I thought about this when I read Sean beantown (89) and Dean (94).
I went out on a date on Saturday with a guy who I met online. He’s a photographer and said he wanted to take better pictures of me because I’m so much more beautiful in person. I am not photogenic. I never look very good in pictures. So if you are looking at their pictures and think they are ok looking, maybe give them a chance.
Evan, you seem to be forgetting that you look “hot”- if the pics and vids i’ve actually seen on your BLOG happens to be you.
Women will be more willing to forgive your low income, if you compensated for it with your good looks. Hence Zaq is right when he says the top few percentage of men in looks and income departments- gets the women.
And of course you should also know the 17% of marriages never indicated the men’s income or looks.
With the greatest respect Evan, I think you over-estimate what a creative profile and good first emails will do. Moreover, I’d agree with ‘Saint Stephen’ that you’re certainly an above average looking bloke. This helps a lot, as does being taller than average.
I know a guy who’s 6ft 3, is pretty decent looking but has a rubbish profile and risible first emails (Copy + Paste variety) yet always dates nice looking girls online. On the other hand, another friend who’s 5ft 6, is slightly above average looking, has a great career, wrote a funny profile on Match/always tailors his emails, simply cannot get any attention at all. When I’ve been online in the past, I’ve been firmly in the middle (I’m 5ft 9) e.g semi successful online but can attract far better offline.
Writing funny/creative emails is extremely hard when the vast majority of profiles are dull and use the same ridiculous clichés – I like walks along the beach, I like travelling, I like going to gigs, I’m spontaneous, I like curling up on the sofa with a bottle of wine but also like going out bla bla bla bla. So inevitably people are going to judge you based on attractiveness and most women are very fussy online because they receive a torrent of emails every single day.
Having a broad social circle has always been more effective. The more people you know, the more successful you’ll likely to be in meeting that special someone (friends of friends etc so you’ll already have something in common). Thus, if someone has a small social circle were it’s difficult to meet new people, they should think about joining clubs etc where they can meet like minded individuals.
Of the 100 or so people I know, about 40 have tried online dating at some point and only 3 have had long term success off there. It certainly works but if my experience is indicative (which it appears to be), it’s fairly limited.
James, you can have a broad social circle and still not come close to finding love. You can join a dance class and meet 7 new people. You can go hiking and meet 15 more. And you can dance, hike, go to bars, and STILL come home and date online effectively. One doesn’t preclude the other. So, to this guy who has mastered online dating and teaches others to do it more effectively, your friends’ failure to succeed says far more about your friends than it does online dating.
Mellie-
I’ve had the same exp as you as I’ve gotten older – at 29 I got 40% response rate- now about 10% at 33. No, I haven’t gained weight. 😉
Well, my experience has been virtually zero. I have probably sent out almost a hundred emails, all of them personalized but like James said you can only personalize so much towards a really general profile. Out of them all I have received 1 reply. I met this person, but she wasn’t exactly what I was looking for. I am 5’`10 and have been told I am actually very attractive. But I look horrible in pictures, I’m just not photogenic at all. I like to think I am charming, polite, and I have a good job as well. So I think I have a lot to offer, but I still don’t get responses. I have also never been contacted initially either online. It’s funny, at a bar girls will walk right up to me, but online I am avoided like the plague.
I agree with most of what Evan says in his last reply, except for the bit about it being all our friends fault for not being successful at online dating. Sorry, but the recommendation here is to ‘game the system’. In other words trying to bring yourself out from the pack, so that you get noticed. This can only work if fundamentally the system doesnt function properly.
Or to put it another way, if everyone was playing the same game to get noticed, it wouldn’t work at all.
We know for a fact that women are fundamentally choosing on looks, height, income and age. The desperate ones may loosen up a bit on one or two of those variables.
I didn’t necessarily say that you shouldn’t use online dating as an additional tool but meeting people offline for the vast majority of people is far more effective. You may join all these groups and not immediately find love but I can safely say from personal experience that I’ve never been as successful with the opposite sex since leaving University. And why is that? I had a very active social life at Uni and had the time to join lots of clubs/societies and consequently meet loads of new people who I’d something in common with.
Back to online dating and with the greatest respect Evan, you could sprinkle some of your magic on my 5 ft 6 pal’s profile and I doubt it would have any measurably positive effect. He tailors all his emails ((ubject line referencing something off her profile + a few lines of text which demonstrates he’s actually looked at her profile) and the response rate is pretty poor. He’s decent looking, has a great career (earns close to 6 figures and he’s only 30), is very funny and is a great catch despite being somewhat vertically challenged. Whilst he’s never been a player, he had quite a few girlfriends’ at Uni. So the fault really doesn’t lie with him at all. You could of course tell my friend to lower his standards i.e. email all the women who describe themselves as curvy — which in most cases is a polite euphemism for fat. He may have more success but what does that tell you? Some women are more desperate than others.
On the other hand and as stated previously, I have a friend who’s 6ft 3/good looking but his profile is unremarkable/full of clichés, has quite a few spelling/grammatical errors (he’s very dyslexic) despite being relatively breviloquent, puts no effort into his emails whatsoever (bulk copy & paste variety), yet probably has close to a 40% response rate. What does that tell you? A good/funny profile and creative emails are not that important in the scheme of things. Being good looking and/or tall online are far more important.
So for the average guy it seems like a lot of hard work for a rather mediocre response rate. As you’ve talked about before, the competition is absolutely fierce online and most men know that a scatter gun approach is needed e.g. he emails 50 girls, hopes that 10 respond, puts his effort into the top 3 and either flakes on the other 7 or keeps them on a backburner just in case the top 3 flake. It’s not especially healthy for anyone and explains why a lot of people don’t have a good word to say about online dating.
James, we can go back and forth on this. However, you’re immersed in some irrational thinking that’s shading your perspective.
Simply put: do “hot” men and “hot” women get more attention online? Duh. That’s not news. But they get more attention in real life as well. The difference is that everyone has ACCESS to them online. Which means that every man’s gonna take a shot at the Maxim model and every woman’s gonna take a shot at the 6’3″ square jawed investment banker. So what? There’s only a handful of people like that online and they sort themselves out.
Then there’s everyone else in the universe who is still looking for a date.
Where do single people have greater access to other single people? Jake’s Brew House? San Pedro Community College’s Intro to Spanish? Nope. Match.com. Not even close.
Given the time and cost it takes for you to go out, have drinks and pick up women in a given night: three or four hours, fifty-plus dollars… and maybe get one phone number, I can write creative, confident emails to five women and have two write back. Takes me less than an hour. Costs me less than a dollar a day. And I can do it every day if I want.
Your blind spot is that you STILL think that the “scattergun approach” is RIGHT. It’s not about emailing 50 at a time and getting 10 responses. You seem like a good guy, but you’re outing your own lack of understanding about what it takes to succeed on Match.com with each comment you post. Do online dating properly as a supplement to real life. But I can tell you, as a guy who went out in real life from 25-35, and dated online as well, I had FAR greater returns online. Which means that SOMEONE can do it, apparently.
Oh, and your 5’6″ friend has to recognize that a woman may have to lower HER standards to go out with him. Humility is pretty important when it comes to dating.
@Evan,
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but I on the other hand, have been far more successful offline. I’m a reasonably attractive guy who’s slightly shorter than average (5ft 9) but has a good job (in fact I run a well renowned consultancy service), earns a decent amount of money (upwards of £50k per year) and is generally very gregarious/funny. Obviously I’m not the absolute best catch in the entire world but I haven’t done too badly in life – perhaps better when I was younger 😉
However, online, my luck has been mediocre at best. I think the major problem is projecting my personality and charm is difficult. I’ve always tailored my emails (subject line and email which reference their profile and I’ve always done that in a friendly/funny & non-formal way) so wouldn’t advocate a ‘cut & paste’ scattergun approach. Nevertheless, most men need to send a lot of emails and this requires a lot of time. I’ve probably got a 20-25% response rate overall and have regrettably sometimes emailed girls who I wouldn’t have looked twice at in real life but who came across well in their profile. The major reason why I’ve used online dating is that I work long/punishing hours (50+ per week) and it can be difficult to sometimes meet like minded people. Nevertheless, I have now resolved to find more time for social pursuits. It simply didn’t work for me. Maybe that’s my fault but I know lots of others who feel the same way.
Moreover, I think the reason why online dating doesn’t work for the vast majority of men is that you’ll likely get lost in the mix particularly if you don’t deviate from the average (in a good way). Sending creative emails may help to a small extent but I suspect the reason why you’ve had success in the past is because you’re an attractive bloke and unsurprisingly this helps enormously! 😉 FYI, I set up a fake profile (obviously a woman) on POF a couple of years back and the amount of emails it got was bewildering. And most of the emails were really really lame! I can understand why girls are jaded by the whole process. However, I can also see why they may gain a distorted sense of their own importance online and thus become pickier over time. As a man, I think you need to catch women when they’ve just joined, when they’re online, on their birthday’s etc but it’s still far from perfect.
Changing the subject, I think you’ve perhaps misunderstood me to a certain extent. I’d never advocate going out on the pull/bar and club scene particularly as you get older. It’s not a good setting to find someone you have something in common with. From my personal experience, I’ve found that relationships happen when you almost least expect them to. I don’t think people should join clubs to find someone but do it to expand their horizons, and their social circle. If they happen to find a partner as a consequence, then that’s great. Nearly all my previous relationships have happened through a friend of a friend and I don’t think this is a coincidence tbh.
Totally agree with James.The point is that women will adjust who they think they can get, based on who they see is available. As shown in many dating studies, average men will not get a look in if a top class male is (seemingly) available.Contrast this with an article in a recent psychology magazine I read where the councillor recommended that a client stopped wasting time looking for attractive men (read tall, rich) online as constant failure would result in a loss of self esteem. She recommended the client spent more time just partaking in activities that she enjoyed. As an addendum, she said that the client had found love as a result of spending time with a short, bald guy that she had known since school.So, I don’t agree that women have to lower their standards. They have to CHANGE their standards.If there is no way that a guy can show the value of personality and charm and status, then women online are in no position to assess the true value of the men, and will default to basic ‘numbers’. I must say that it appears in my experience, that women can take some time to appreciate these other factors. It doesn’t seem to work in speed dating for instance.I have known short men who have landed extremely attractive girlfriends. I cannot imagine any of these women thinking that they had lowered their standards. This could rarely happen online.
Well, my bf and I broke up a couple of weeks ago, so I’m back on match. 🙁
As before, when my profile seems new to guys (and I took off liking younger guys ’cause it intimidated a lot of men), I get positive responses to 8/10 emails I send out. Usually.
I used to like okcupid, but can’t get many responses there lately, not sure why. Here in SC match.com seems to be where it’s at. That and POF which I loathe.
Tom, I completely agree with you. Women on dating websites are very shallow. Never ever do they initiate contact, and a reply will happen only if you are 6′ 2″ with a face like brad pitt and a body like matthew mcconaughey. Seriously, I am not emailing the most attractive women out there. The emails are tailored for each person, and they are thoughtful and well written. My profile is good, and I am an attractive guy–I often get looks or compliments in person, I get no courtesy replies, no thanks, nothing from match.com! Maybe 21-24 yr. old girls who join dating sites online are more shallow than the older girls because it seems like a lot of people are commenting that they have high success rates.
Alan, your comment explains why online dating is going to crash, burn and disappear in the next few years, if not sooner. The word is getting out that men have no chance of succeeding online unless they’re Superman – you know, tall, good-looking, rich, etc.
I mean, why play a game that is slanted in favour of the other side from the get-go, costs you money, and ultimately gets you nowhere?
I am a guy who is in his late 30’s, and I would say my unsolicited contact response rate is in the 20%–25% range. I am decent-looking, but I am only 5’8″. I have a well-written profile and my first emails are fairly short. For the most part, when it comes to first emails, less really is more.
When I started OLD I wanted to be “nice” and respond to everyone (whose profile wasn’t a fake that is) who wrote me first or who winked at me. But I soon gave that up. Not because of the volume or anything–I get maybe one unsolicited indicator of interest a month. The big reason is that is it really “nice” to tell a woman who put herself out there (and who has a well-written profile) that her looks just doesn’t do it for you? Seems kinder to just ignore. Another reason is that most of the women contacting me first are far outside of what I am looking for and what I say in my profile that I am looking for. If they aren’t going to respect my time and heed what I put in my profile, why should I respect their efforts with a response back? I don’t begrudge them for liking my profile and for going for what they want in life, but I put what I put into my text for a reason.
When I write someone unsolicited, I don’t expect a response back. They just don’t owe me one.
[email protected]
Having given this much thought, I don’t think anyone is shallow. It is as natural for them to desire tall, healthy and wealthy males as it is for you to desire young, healthy women. That is how we are programmed.
The point I keep making, is that in real life people very quickly realise what the quality of the opposite sex they can attract is. Online, women especially, can not.
As far as 21-24 year old women are concerned, dating statistics show that men of their age far out number them on dating websites. Additionally they are at their peak in terms of attractiveness and so will be approached by older men who may also have the status, wealth, height you name it, that they want. I would suggest that you will face far less competition in the real world.
And then we have the distorted views of self prevalent on this site, and l guess in OLD too. The great irony is that if you have a high level of self esteem, you will probably also have a more distorted view of your true level of attractiveness.
It is a fact that nearly half of all people have less than average looks.
And yet most women on this site seem to consider themselves at least a 7, when they are far more likely to be less than a 5.
“I look much younger than my age” – ehr, no you don’t
“I may not be Brad Pitt, but” – distinctly average then
Worse, studies have shown that if you give negative feed back to people with high self esteem it results in high level of emotional stress.
Where else are you going to get higher levels of rejection than OLD ?
Hence the degree of anger and frustration shown above.
I’ve been using online dating on and off for over four years: over two with match, about one with POF, and coming up to one year with OKCupid.
Match was easily the worst; I reckon one reply to every fifty emails probably just about sums it up. POF wasn’t much better, although a lot of the women on there seemed to be prick-teasers – happy to email back and forth but never willing to commit to actually meeting up.
OKCupid started promisingly – in my first month or so I probably got replies to about half my messages, and even managed to get two actual, real life dates. It dropped off rapidly after that though, and I’ve not had a single reply to any of my last 73 messages. My particular favorite are those who respond enthusiastically and give out all the right signals about being interested, before disappearing and never logging back in again, or blocking me in the middle of a discussion.
On match I got winked at four or five times a week and followed every one up with an email which almost never got replied to. On POF and OKC I got maybe one email a month, usually from someone miles away who’d make a baby hippo look slim. I’ve replied to every message I’ve ever received on all three sites, even just to say “I’m afraid we’re not suited to each other, but good luck in your search.”
My female friends tell me I’m attractive, witty and smart as well as a “true gentleman.” I’m in good shape, financially very sound, have a full head of hair and – at the age of 36 – am never married with no children. All my messages are literate, thought-out and tailored.
Logic and my close friends keep telling me that I should be something of a catch yet all my experience with online dating tells me that I am somehow repellant to women and it’s getting to the point where I genuinely feel that I’m better off alone than being totally ignored online.
Neil
What race are you, if you don’t mind my asking? I think the OK Cupid survey we talked about here recently pretty much said white males who are young, educated, and attractive are the winners in OLD. Take “white” out of the equation, and it’s waayyy harder to get lucky online,
But if you are a white dude, I have no explanation
Sayanta
I’m white, but at 5’10” I’m not massively tall. Maybe that’s it? As you point out, there is no sane explanation other than that OLD is not all it’s cracked up to be and the odds are stacked massively against men.
Neil-
Women are fine with 5’10- I am definitely, and I’m 5’7. Weird, I don’t know…
Oh well, send me an email, I’ll reply, ;-p
I’ve been getting about a 1% success rate. I have numerous women reply to initial emails, only to be stuck in pen pal mode. They never commit to an actual live meeting. The 2 dates I’ve actually been on, live in person meetings, were a big disappointment and did not turn into anything meaningful.
It’s funny how people always think everyone ELSE is being shallow but them. Men AND women who complain about lack of responses will go on diatribes about how people that they don’t find attractive have the nerve to contact them even when THEY presume that the people that they contact should respond to them. I mean, I don’t have to agree with it to say that you shouldn’t be shocked if a lady who has certain height criteria doesn’t respond when you contact her.
I mean, you can blame your height, claim that all women want millionaires, or whatever, but yeah, at the end of the day, the people who want to meet you will respond, and they are no more shallow then you are when you get contacted by people that you don’t want to meet. It might not be your height. It could be your face, your hair, your profile…all of these things are subjective after all.
What’s so hard about that? For what it’s worth, i think women can be won over by personality if they get a chance to meet you, but I don’t think the same is true. The real challenge for men is getting a shot in the first place, and for SOME women, you might be screened out for certain reasons but such is life, and they are entitled their the search criteria as you are.
Now, if you fast forward a few years and you’ve got nothing to show for it might prove that you should open your search, but we know that people would much rather complain about how the people contacting them are too ugly and poor and stupid than do that.
As Sayanta said, OLD largely favors white men (and women)…they are the biggest pool of participants and more non-white people probably include whites in their searches than the other way around. So as a white guy looks for white women, you are competing with all of the other white guys and non-white guys who email them.
I guess all of the short men I see with wives didn’t get the memo that women hate them.
I have been on Match for several month and have gotten ZERO responses to my emails. I’m so frustrated!! I’m a 33 year old female, and I think age must have everything to do with it. When I was in my late 20s (and living in a different city), I would get hundreds of emails from men, and I’d even hide my profile because I was so inundated with unwanted email. Now that I’m older (and recently moved to a different city), I cannot get an online date to save my freaking life. It is so strange — I look virtually identical (if not prettier than when I was in my 20s!), and my profile is basically the same but appropriately updated. ARGH!!!
After being fed up with the lack of response from the women who stuck my fancy on eHarmony I tried Match.com. It has been less than a month now and I have sent out 25 e-mails and not one person has responded. Must be my difficulty in expressing myself with words or I’m going for all the arrogant ones.
The response rate from women on match.com is less than 1%. That is not an opinion, but a fact.
My response rate is 37%, based on my inbox/sent. Chicago 29 SWM, 6’1, MBA. Small business owner. I came up an 8 on hotornot pic posting. The name listed is my match username. I wrote my profile to be interesting, without being “out there”.
Emails need to be concise, use “keywords” from the person’s background and interests, i.e. kayaking, volleyball, so it gets their attention. Start up a normal, interesting conversation. Take a minute to think of something interesting to say.
Ask for their phone number after a few emails, CALL THEM to chat, do not TEXT to set up a date. If you do not call, they will flake out on the date.
Smile, be confident on the phone, and you are Gold.
LVNW — Your advice with regards to writing emails is sensible but if someone doesn’t like you, then that tailored email is a total waste of time.
The reason you’re probably getting a good response is likely due to your height and that you’re possibly above average attractiveness.
I’d put good money on the fact that a good looking guy at 6ft 2 could write a shocker of an email (Hi baby, u look nice etc) and still probably have way more success online than an equivalent guy who was 5ft 8 who tailored his email. That’s life I’m afraid.
Although women will hypocritically refuse to admit this, they’re just as superficial as men. And this is especially true online as they have far more choice (way more active men on these sites etc). But I don’t blame them for this. After all, when all they they’ve got to go on is an internet profile, of course they’re going to revert to making snap and cynical judgments – Is he tall enough? Good looking? Earns enough etc?
Don’t always assume height will get you anywhere. I’m 6’2″, been told I’m good looking (though I do have a receding hairline), and I’m in very good shape. I have had success…been out with over 30 women from online dating but I go through periods where I’m invisible and can’t get a response. Most of the dates I’ve been on I have not been attracted to the other women. I have had 3 or 4 that were 10’s but never got a second date. Usually, I get no resonse from the very attractive women on-line. Even if you do get a date with one of them, they have so many options and view you as disposable. The last date I went on, the girl was georgeous and we even made out at the end of the date (she initiated it) but three days later she told me “best of luck” and I see her right back on Match looking around. This is a girl in her mid-30’s with a kid and can do that because of all the options she has. Now I made some mistakes (didn’t fawn but made it clear I liked her, hence, no challenge for her). I’m just trying to show that the odds of getting a great looking girl through on-line dating is VERY VERY slim.
Online dating can be very, very humbling…
Hespeler @133
Date long enough and you will realize that your original goal of “getting a great looking girl” is not the goal you should be seeking. It’s been mentioned numerous times to the women on this site that the Alpha Male is usually not the best choice for a relationship. Likewise, the “hot” women also have their issues. Read the Pity the Pretty blog. Another great EMK article is the one that advises to focus on the relationship as opposed to the individual’s characteristics (height, weight, religion, etc.). If the relationship is a 10, does it really matter if she doesn’t qualify as a trophy-bride for some other reason?
Chasing the hotties is fun — and exhilarating — and depressing. Been there, done that! Best of luck.
I agree with James 100%. I have been on Match for 3 months and after sending thoughtful, witty (I think), non-threatening messages that uniquely addressed each profile’s idiosyncrasies to approximately twenty five women, I have received one lonely response–and even she vanished after my reply to her reply.
I am 6 foot and modeled in Los Angeles before moving to the midwest. The only thing I can surmise is that my salary is only 75-100k. My friends, who have had some success with Match, are baffled the replies aren’t more frequent. I thought of trying an experiment before the account expires and write that my salary is 300k. Because although I am not Johnny Depp or William Shakespeare, I am out of answers and simply can’t fathom how my profile only garners a response rate of 5%.
I have gotten the occasional wink and a couple random “you’re cute”s from women that didn’t interest me, but I did at least reply to them with a friendly thanks!
I abhor Match. If there’s a secret, let me know…
I have been on Match several times over the last 4 years. I do much better in person, actually, and can’t go out without getting hit on. But I have very spotty luck online. Sometimes I get no replies from anyone–even guys I was not that into–and sometimes I get a lot of attention. I’ve noticed that as I get older, less men respond. I’m 36 now, even though guys tell me I look 28. Also, the men I have dated on Match have turned out to be messed up–Narcissists, commitmentphobes, etc.
Dennin-
How old are you? And what’s the age range of the women you write? If they are much younger, that’s why you’re not getting responses. If a 46 year old guy who looks like George Clooney emails me, I’m not replying- he’s over a decade older than me!
Sayanta, I agree. Prob 99% of the guys who contact me are 10 years older than I am and look like my father. While it’s not uncommon for a woman who is 36 to date a man 46 or older, like I said I look in my 20s and am looking someone my own age. But the men my age are looking for younger women (according to their age range) and don’t even look at my profile, even if they are the kind of guys I’d reject in bars. Guys, if you want a woman to respond, go for women your own age. That would be my guess.
I came across this via Google and thought I’d offer my .02 on three separate Match.com endeavors. First, a bit of demographic info… I’m just shy of 5’11” and have weighed between 180 and 205 over the span of my Match timeline. Have typically dated attractive women. And, started at 26 and am now just under a decade away from forty.
The first time I tried online dating was right after college. I moved across the country and knew a total of three people in my new city. I was in the worst shape of my three separate Match experiences, but did fairly well. I didn’t send out many emails, less than 20 and ended up going on a multiple dates with three ladies before meeting someone outside of Match and pulling my profile. Having read most of these replies, I would have to say I did well. Overall I was very happy with the quality of ladies on Match.
In 2009 I relocated to another city, and thought I’d fire up the old Match account to meet girls. Round two required a lot more effort. I sent out about 50 emails, and received 5-10 responses. The first girl I met in person ended up having a pretty poor personality and wasn’t nearly as attractive as her photos would lead a guy to believe. The crazy thing is she kind of turned into a mini stalker. Luckily that only lasted about a month (the stalking not the dating). Next I met a really cool girl and we ended up dating for about two months. Turns out we were at different places in our lives and just grew apart and stopped dating. Shortly thereafter, I met a beautiful… yet ultimately crazy girl whom I lived with until just recently.
Three days ago I flipped the switch, updated my photos and info, and dipped a toe into the online dating pool. Very promising out of the gate. Two winks and two emails within 24 hours, and another email the following day from a pretty attractive young lady. However, I’m batting ZERO on email responses. I’ve sent out nine emails so far and was beginning to wonder what was wrong with my new profile. I’m in pretty good shape (especially compared to my last two tries), have a few professional photos (from weddings), and have photos of me climbing/hiking/etc. I’ve had 41 views. Six from girls I’ve emailed… but nothing in terms of an actual response. Not even a “no thanks.”
I’m pretty glad to see that others on here have had similar experiences. I’m a bit of an over analyzer and was starting to wonder what I was doing wrong. I’ll try to post an update in a few weeks. I can’t honestly recommend Match, nor can I advise against it. Maybe that will change in the next week or two.
Hespeler @133
Date long enough and you will realize that your original goal of “getting a great looking girl” is not the goal you should be seeking. It’s been mentioned numerous times to the women on this site that the Alpha Male is usually not the best choice for a relationship. Likewise, the “hot” women also have their issues. Read the Pity the Pretty blog. Another great EMK article is the one that advises to focus on the relationship as opposed to the individual’s characteristics (height, weight, religion, etc.). If the relationship is a 10, does it really matter if she doesn’t qualify as a trophy-bride for some other reason?
Chasing the hotties is fun – and exhilarating – and depressing. Been there, done that! Best of luck.
I can tell you since that last rejection I’ve done a lot of soul searching. I am trying very hard to develop a new mindset towards dating. I don’t need this competition or blows to my self-esteem at this point in my life.
Problem is, you have to want to have sex with the person your with. Finding that mix of personality AND sexual attractiveness is I think just as hard as chasing 10’s.
I am taking a little break from it all but when I get back out there I am going to try and make something happen with someone who might not live up to every physical standard I am looking for. Let the 9’s and 10’s look for their Brad Pitts and Jennifer Anistons all they want. I’ll try and be happy with who I am and who chooses to love me for me.
I have had zero success. I have emailed quite a bit. So much that it has discouraged me to the point where I send out less and less emails. I do not think I am a bad looking guy. It just doesn’t make sense. I also don’t even get many profile views. I think I only have like 30 something which makes no sense. I would understand if they viewed my profile and then decided not to respond.
I’m a male, I emailed about 450 emails in the last couple months,(yes it has been a full time job, I have set aside time to pursue somone special. I winked (on match) 200 ladies had six responses. I favorited about 450 and recieved about 12 emails and two phone numbers…..nothing eventful has happened. I have yet to go on a date. Throughout my life I have been told that I have very good looks and about 6′ tall fairly good build and toned offered modeling jobs and have modeled a little bit…about 190 lbs. I’m 44 now and just got back in the dating scene after many years. Never been a player and goal oriented. I have never been married nor do I have kids,,,, I send very thoughtful and complimenary emails that are 5-8sentences long,…I very considerate and respectful in every way…I do email 8’s,9s and 10’s…I usually dated ladies of that caliber 10 years back….I have been told that I have ages very well…I keep in good shape…I have a full head of hair….I think the ladies, even though they out member the men 2:1 or 3:1 receive on average 15-30 emails a day…I have been told some get 100-200 emails generally the 9’s and 10’s…I’m picky however my average email sent to 8.5’s…I have a very long sincere, genuine profile with about 7-12 pics all 8-12 months old many are vrery current current. My failure rate is profoundly frustrating!!
@soul2soul
”
Here’s my take on why it may not be working
The cocky funny works on women less than 30 years old. The older the woman, the more response to longer emails with plenty of ego stroking.
If you are a man that is not average in all areas, I think it may work against you.
Women in general want as much information as possible about men. This information is used only to disqualify men.
For example, if you are above average in physical attractiveness, but older, or less financially secure. The negative points are used to disqualify you.
If you are financially secure, confident and funny, but short or older, you are disqualified.
The more so if the woman themselves are attractive, who may be forced to make much quicker judgements.
You would probably be better off dating in the real world.
This also applies to women. Those who are less physically attractive, but who have game (think Cleopatra, Anne Boleyn), or perhaps someone who is very attractive, but over 40.
Average people seeking average people may work, but you still have the problem of women thinking most men are taller than 5’10”, earn double the national average wage and possess a full head of hair.
I’ve about had it with the whole online dating thing. Over the course of the last 2 months, I have sent over 100 messages. (104 to be exact) I have NOT GOTTEN A SINGLE RESPONSE. I always say something different in every message and try to sound interesting and unique. I’m tall (6’3) and I never thought of myself as unattractive. But apparently I am. Oh well, more time to focus on school I guess. 🙂
Fascinating that you blame “online dating”, Kevin, instead of looking in the mirror and trying to figure how to do it better. Better username, better photos, better profile, better email technique, better understanding of women. It’s on you, man.
Online dating works for people who know how to work it.
I’m a 25 year old black woman who dates interracially with full understanding of the challenges of seeking that kind of relationship online. On ok cupid, match.com, and plenty of fish I get virtually no attention or responses from the men I seek out, who tend to be in the 34-40 year age range. That’s not to say I’ve had no luck at all, just much much less than the average pretty girl, and yes I’m pretty. A former model, slim , fit, creative, intellectual, funny – I know what I have going for me, but I also know that my race is an obstacle in the virtual world where the most important aspects of my personality are intangible, those aspects being those that matter most in setting me apart from what anyone would consider “typical” for a black woman.
My profile is professionally written, and I don’t use any of my airbrushed modeling pictures so as to not come off fake or intimidating. I’m not amazing at email banter, but I always try to use specific info from a person’s profile in my responses to show sincere interest. Yet my success is much less than it should be.
I did get a bit more attention online when I had long straight hair, but I’m joining the droves of black women who are embracing the short natural look and I love myself more for it. I get plenty of compliments in the real world from white men who dig natural hair on a black woman and this boosts my confidence in it.
I’ve recently relaxed my age range to include younger men and have a date soon with a fit, handsome, 32 year old white professional. Keeping my fingers crossed that there’s a connection because I’m getting rid of my Match.com account for now..
@hespeler 140
You are spot on. I agree with Evan that it’s on the man to find out how to work online dating. But just because it’s on us doesn’t mean it isn’t a stacked deck.
Notice how many women say they respond to 10-15% of men, yet many also say they respond to almost all men even if it’s just to say they’re not interested. It just doesn’t add up, like in Lake Wobegon, where “all the children are above average.” I can say from direct experience that across 3 services (Match, OKCupid, and eHarmony), I have made a conscious effort to (1) make a good profile and get feedback on it; (2) read each woman’s profile all the way through; and (3) send an email according to the advice (keep it short, mention something specific of interest, limit discussion of her appearance). eHarmony is different because of guided communication, but even there I get very few responses to my icebreakers, which by definition are uniform so “bad email” is ruled out at the start. My pretty consistent average is 4-5% if I send an email first (all but 1 or 2 were no thank yous), and 0-1% where the woman contacts me first.
What this suggests to me is, yes, I probably could improve all facets of my online dating presence. But that can’t be the whole story, because on paper I just can’t believe I’m that ignorable. I know, maybe I am, but I have been on dates with a few fairly attractive and intelligent women who say I’m good looking. I know I’m not George Clooney but I’m not an ogre either. I’m not saying this out of arrogance but out of years of getting a feel for how I come off socially and the few times I have flirted. I’m also not the most spectacular writer, but I don’t think my profile is so boring that only 1-4% of women would be interested in it. I could be wrong, though.
I think the unspoken part of the story may be that women have the luxury of being far more selective because they hold the dating cards. Notice how high the response rate is for women who write to a man first. Also notice how many women feel entitled to never have to write to men first. If men did the same thing, no one would ever write each other. But women can do it because, for whatever social or biological reason, men — not 100% but maybe 90% — have to write first to get the ball rolling.
And for all the talk of bad email by men, I got this (honest it’s real) email from a woman who contacted me first: “Nice profile. (0:” That’s it. If I submitted that as a man’s email, it would get torn apart as not knowing how to contact a woman. Am I wrong?
If you add in the other biases of salary, ethnicity, looks, religion, and other interests, then a man could be getting rejected for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of his emails. For example, one guy wasn’t even getting profile views. That suggests he’s probably being filtered out before his profile is ever seen. How does he “work” that? By lying about his settings to get himself past the filters? What if the real problem is the way women are setting their filters?
Of course that isn’t a “problem” per se because, by definition, dating sites are designed to cater to everyone’s preferences. But for that very reason it would be surprising if real bias effects — having absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a man’s email or looks or general suitability for dating or marriage — have crept in because women are really in the driver’s seat here. @Michelle 146 I would say the same thing may apply wrt race and may explain why certain ethnic women get treated like “men” as it were. It may be whoever doesn’t make the cut of the group holding the cards in the scenario. I’m not accusing anyone of racism, just honest bias and filtering that I think is sometimes unjustifiably passed off as “bad email” or “not working the format.”
I think speed dating is probably better overall for men, though that’s based only on my experience. Even though I’m shy and clearly am eminently rejectable online, I had some fun speed dates and met some great women who were actually interested in me.
Just my two cents. Good luck to all.
Wow this is fascinating. I thought it was just me. I’m a decent looking and successful guy and I can’t believe the frustration I’ve experienced with online dating. What gets me are these women who write “looking for a stable, normal and fun guy to meet and date”. I’m eminently qualified for that yet nothing. I’ve even looked at other guys profiles to check out the competition and , not to sound arrogant, but I think I’m head and shoulders a better a catch than 95% of the other guys. Just a weird experience.
Have to admit with rest of the guys doesnot matter if your nice funny serious in emails chance of response is rubbish as you say takes 10 secs to say sorry no thanks
but hey as you say they want brad Pitt let me have it
@LD 147
Not happening is it
No, speed dating isn’t much better. Studies have shown that personality has virtually no effect on dating outcome. The 2 tall handsome guys in the group – they get all the matches. Psychologists have theorized that faced with too much choice women revert to just the physical factors.
The Freakonomics study seemed to suggest that only the top 5% of men were getting any response. 90% of men give up within 3 months apparently.
In truth you don’t need to read any of the studies – just reading the comments above will give you a flavor of what is happening out there.
Women who think they are a 7, when they are more likely to be a 4, holding out for a 9
In the real world you will hear women saying “I wasn’t attracted to him at first but …”
In OLD it doesn’t get as far as a “but”
I have known really quite short guys end up with attractive women in the real world simply by being persistent. Can’t happen online
I write custom emails and my response rate is about 2%. Beyond that, all but 1 match has disappeared in the ‘black hole’.
What’s up everyone? Googled for match.com success rates and got this site. Really glad I did.
Well, had to comment with my story. I’m 31 and been trying online dating off and on for the last four years.
I tried eHarmony. Over 3 years, was on there a total of 18 months. Got very few responses and even less from guys who made the first move. I did go out with one guy for four dates. But no chemistry. Two other matches kept me hanging long-distance for far too long. I’m still upset with myself at how stupid I was.
And I did even have my two married siblings look at my photos, help me with my profile and everything. Other than these 3 guys, I got zilch. Nada. Nothing.
Then a friend suggested I try OKCupid. I said, why not? She and I are the same age. I’m not a judge on looks, but I thought we both were rated the same average looks. She was a bit chubbier than I, but she managed to get two dates from two different guys on OK.
I have to confess like some others here, I did get a lot more responses on OK than I ever did on eHarmony. Unfortunately, 99.9999999% of them were nice and replied with hey, you’re nice-sounding, but… I think out of 100 e-mails I sent in a perhaps 3 month period, I got about 20 no thanks and a handful of friendship offers. Only one reply that seemed promising. But we couldn’t agree upon one vital issue and so it ended before it even started.
Now, for match, another friend seemed to have some positive luck. So I gritted my teeth and signed up for three months. It’s been a week and I’ve sent a bunch of e-mails and winked at another bunch.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I second what someone else said. I guess I’m too ugly. Especially if other girls on match are getting 100 e-mails from guys a day? Wow, I must be hideous.
I suppose I am lucky, I am a male and I have had an 8/10 response rate. I am of average attraction level, athletic, but I purposely put mainly head shots or baggier clothes in my profile pictures. This wasn’t always the case. I found when I really took time with my profile narrative, assuring the grammar was correct and that I was talking about me, e.g. my personality rather than the “I enjoy sports and reading” approach my response rate skyrocketed. I was also very choosy about who I contacted at all. Only those women I found genuinely interesting and attractive and not playing the numbers. For argument’s sake though, I work out of town a lot, so I would send about 3 emails a slow work month on a slow month and only one if I was too busy. My emails were not formulaic and I tried to use my natural language as much as possible. With that approach I not only got responses 80% of the time, but I would get a date set up pretty much with every battery of emails from at least one woman.
I haven’t had my subscription long, but just wanted to respond to some of this. I have sifted through hundreds of womens profiles narrowed it down from over 1800 women to around three dozen then narrowed it down to about two dozen. Out of the two dozen there is maybe 12-15 girls I could see myself being with, and I messaged each one of them with no response. Some of them I messaged two or three times no response. I’ve got to say I’m not going to be able to personalize my message to much when I’m not able to even talk to the girl, and their profiles are pretty generic, but if it’s not good enough that out of over 1800 women I choose to put all me time into just a dozen of you a few of you I like a hell of a lot then what is? I’ll spend hours rewritting my profile, and go quite a few nights with pretty poor sleep so I can understand the whole health comment one of you made lol. 🙂 Christ though the women seem to think their gods gift to humanity, and the men are expendable or something like that where their obviously pretty poor human beings a lot of them. Not to offend anyone.
This would be in the 18-25 range by the way with a few exceptions to a few 26-27 year old women if curious.
Im a guy and have had a pretty low success rate just getting girls to respond to my personalized messages. I quit match because it was really killing my self confidence. I could go out to a bar and have sex with a girl at a higher success rate than i could get somebody to respond to a well thought out message. To top it off the girls i hooked up with at the bar, were get this, the same girls who wouldnt respond to me on match.com.
Online dating was invented so girls could date guys better looking than themselves. Good for them id say for guys though unless youre solidly good looking youll do better just being bold out on the town.
38 years old, full head of hair, 180 cm, 185 lbs, extraordinary fitness(bench 400+ lbs, tilt stairclimber at max intensity
for an hour 5 days a week, leaving all the 20 something year olds in the dust, etc.), indications of low biological age(ie. I
look like a 20 year old).
When I was online dating, I started out emailing only the most attractive women, and response rate was between %10-20.
There was a *huge* difference, in response rates, depending on location(ie. emailing women in dispirate locations, could yield predictable differences in response rate).
Ironically, I found that age peers were less receptive, than younger, more beautiful women(ie. I had a couple 18 year old cuties who were extremely taken with me – but, were not what I was looking for in a LTR, obviously).
I found this curious, until I considered that any sample of female age-peers should be expected to be particularly obstinate, with respect to their adaptations to single life(hence their predicament).
But, I had long before come to realize that I was no exception to that rule(and taken appropriate measures – I began seriously considering women of legitimately average attractiveness).
I never replied to emails that limited themselves to sexual innuendo(I was looking for a LTR prospect, and such content is a red-flag, IMO).
Still, I responded to perhaps %30 of the emails sent me, including my eventual choice(which I encouraged by placing her in my favorites) – and this turned out to be my soulmate(she is 25 years old).
I was astonished to learn, that she had only been registered for a week and had received *thousands* of unsolicited emails(she is very beautiful).
I, on the other hand had received around 30, after a substantially longer tenure.
A couple weeks later, we both agreed to take down our profiles, permanently.
For OLD, the limiting factor for continued discourse(pursuant to emotional bonding)is always going to be the pictures
(representative of attractiveness), except where individials are making a conscious effort to relax this criteria(which, I
would argue, is an indicated strategy in many cases – especially regarding unrequited females who find themselves struggling with averse, or non-comittal males).
To the embattled middle aged woman struggling to find the ‘one’, I can only offer this caution:
It does not hold that being more selective, at a lower level of attractiveness in advancing age, will meet with greater
success(than the past).
Your profile needs to stand out and impress. Do you have pictures such as:
-In the bathroom using your cellphone with your shirt off?
-Sitting in front of your computer
These pictures don’t cut it.
Ideas for pictures:
-Outdoors with a cool background (lake, beach, something interesting)
-Good headshot for your Primary photo
After you start getting responses and going on dates, you get to experience being rejected after a few dates! haha
@LVNW Sounds fun I guess I’d wind up getting rejected on the first date then because I’m not over 6ft or my income is not good enough for them etc lol. 😀
Always the pic’s I’d post better ones sure, but for me I’d probably still have poor response rates even single mothers are not responding to my messages right now. Not that I could really see myself with one of them, but they do seem like okay women though I wouldn’t know they don’t talk lol. 😀
@Shaun Same problem I feel like quiting match as well, and haven’t been there to long it gets so depressing so fast. I guess I’m pretty screwed with the whole bar thing as I don’t drink.
I guess maybe in my 30’s I’ll have better luck, but by that time I’d probaby shot myself or do some other dumb crap expecially if I was still using match.com lol. 😀
So, I made it through about 50 posts. I have to agree with most of the statistics that the men have put up. It’s about a 10-20 % response rate from women. I’m definitely a good looking guy, I’ve done some modeling, and get compliments on my looks – not that I have an ego about my looks at all, I’m quite humble.
However it’s frustrating reading some girls profile, and I pretty much fit her match and I write a short email expressing my interest but don’t get a response.
It’s a shame really, the girls want all these things in a man, and when they get a genuine guy truly interested in something real they don’t have the courage to respond back, sad.
Maybe I’ll try being equally shallow and post some racy pics and see what happens. Thats what I’ve seen most of the girls post anyways. I swear they love showing off in that bathing suite, or how there is always a pic of her doing something adventurous (ie skydiving).
All I got to say is that I’m not digging online dating, I have much better luck going up and actually looking into her eyes and asking her for her number, lol but I don’t call so….
Hopefully I didn’t come of as bitter, but just wanted to vent a bit.
I am a man….about……..40 sent….2 replies
i have been on match for about a month now and I am an attractive, intelligent woman. Of all the guys (about 20) that I have winked at, only one has winked back at me. JUST ONE. most of them have read my profile, but none of them have messaged me.
my profile may have been a little abrasive and demanding (as in i stated what i wanted… too clearly apparently) and therefore i haven’t received the responses that i wanted. honestly, the shorter your written part is the better off you will be.
wow, it makes me feel like there is something wrong with me when I am reading all this. I am a 27 year old female MBA student, 5’10, marathon runner, I think most people would rate me as attractive, I have a good job and am very well traveled and I have been on match.com for 6 months and only received about 10 emails. All from guys who are creepy and about 15 years older than me. I sent out 40 emails and did not get a single reply. I do wonder why that is. I also wrote that I am not interested in ‘hooking up’ or one-night stands, is that why, are many of the guys on match after that?! I’m confused, I’d like to think I’m a nice enough and down to earth girl.
wrote out over 50 well customised email having studied the various gals and got only one response. wrote her back twice and nothing. at a point i started having low esteem thinking maybe something’s wrong, at a point i thought it was my race.. then i started writing people of the same race and still nothing…
its plain obvious then,that most women are on the site for the attention their getting and not necessarily because they want to socialise or date.
i saw an amazing stat that 70% of african american women are single. that may sound like a scary figure, but then these same women are all on dating sites and do not reply to messages from us Men. are they saying none of us are their types. Common, u have to try something to know if it’ll work.
Maybe we guys need to be start logging on and not sending any wink or emails, then by the time they keep paying monthly like we men mostly do, then we might get a little more appreciation.
Match.com is horrible for guys. I’ve sent maybe 70 emails and have one reply. Met her in person, but she was crazy. After meeting her twice for a total of four hours, I felt like I was in a long term relationship. Then she went on a date with another and completely quit talking to me. No one even takes the time to look at my profile after sending them an email. At first I sent thoughtful emails, but now they’re getting shorter because it’s a waste of time. I can meet women easier going to a bar solo without even trying to meet them.
I’m ready to cancel my Match.com account. The woman on there are just stuck-up bitches looking for guys with six packs and $100,000/year income.
I would suggest to everyone here to go to singles mixer events. Everyone is themselves there and you get to meet a lot of other singles in a short amount of time. That is how I met my last GF.
I don’t know what planet all you people are using match.com on, but it sure isn’t earth. I’m male, college-educated, very intelligent, have a very financially secure future, in shape, not-bad looking, and a good sense of humor.
I’ve sent hundreds of emails; I’ve thought out and personalized each one. I’ll get a profile view from maybe 5% in response, and I could count on one hand the number of replies I’ve gotten, and on the other hand I could count the number of “Sorry, she’s not interested” notifications I’ve gotten.
So I think match is just not even delivering my emails, and taking $20 right out of my pocket every month.
I used this Match.com for almost a year and after so long of getting zero response, using guides on how to write better e-mails, sending dozens of e-mails (sometimes daily), and getting nothing back I just gave up on this website. I expected at least one or two meetings/first dates to come from me looking here but instead I end up with zero. None. A lot of wasted time and money and nothing to show for it. I went to a free site (Plentyoffish.com) and ended up with far better results and met my girlfriend (soon to be fiancee) there. Sorry, but with such unresponsive and uninterested women on this site I can’t in good conscience recommend Match.com to anyone, period. I’ve tried everything on Match.com’s site and tried every way it and others like it recommend to initiate first-contact. No luck. On POF I had a half-dozen interested e-mails within a few hours and even a dozen first-dates within a few short months. I have to go with results and unfortunately Match.com does not do it.
I have zero response from the guys. Just nada. Frustrates me completely.
I tried to be funny, flirty and short. I winked, blinked, did one sentence, two sentences, and even a paragraph. Still no response from anyone. I even tried people who looked like total losers – yes, I got cynical enough to take e-mailing as an exercise.
And I do have some attractive profile photos.
I also state tin my profile that I have an accent (which I do). Maybe this is a major turn-off for the guys, but I would rather disclose it right away. So i figured that it is either my accent, or I completely suck at e-mailing.
@Julie
Accents are rarely a turn off for anyone.
Are you being honest with yourself and the kind of men you are messaging? Do you message users who have logged on recently? Are you messaging guys in the top 10% in looks/income, etc?
I find it hard to believe any woman would have a zero percent response rate. Men simply don’t receive many messages. I went out with a guy last night who receives one message every week and a half, I receive 3-5 a day. Maybe you should switch up your photos? Get a friend to take some new pictures of you smiling and make sure 1 is a body shot.
@Julia
Dear Julia,
Thank you for the reply.
Yes, I am honest, especially to myself. What is the point of not being honest? This life lesson was learned long time ago.
I e-mail people that come in the daily matches on Match.com. I am trying to e-mail 2-3 guys every day (OK, sometimes every other day). Majority of them have been active in the last 24 hrs. Well, yes, I do tend to e-mail more to the people that are attractive to me, but that does not necessarily mean the top 10%, my taste as looks go is pretty simple. I am 46, a bit on a chubby side (not a lot, size 10 clothes). Great smile, long hair. Smile shot is present in the profile. Body shot in a flowing dress is also there. I did have a body shot in a tight top and jeans, showing that I do have chest and waist, but I removed it, because it seemed to attract some 60+ guys with horrible spelling who called me beauty and proposed to meet and roll (whatever it means). It was not helping me to get replies from the guys I e-mailed to anyway, so I deleted it.
I am very picky, and haven’t sent out many emails. I only contact people I think would be a good match for me. I think I’m average looking, but in the past I’ve attracted the attention of some very beautiful women, so either I’ve got one or two exceptional features or else I attracted women who don’t care about looks. I have a solid income and an honest profile. On match.com, I’m batting 0-for-4, although to be fair one of the women was inactive and another women chose not to subscribe. On OkCupid, I am batting 0-for-2. I think if I got any kind of response from a woman, even “sorry but I don’t think we have chemistry, good luck” I would probably do back flips.
Can’t believe I’m reading this! As a woman on match.com ( just joined) I’ve received one email but loads of winks… I’ve sent out ten emails to men who I thought seemed nice, articulate and close by… nothing so far. Sometimes its not looks – although to be honest if somebody looks really old compared to the age they’ve stated that puts me off and I’ve contacted people with no photo – because their profile is interesting. It’s the profile & ad – gentlemen – if you can’t think to put anything witty, interesting about your life apart from your height, age… then it doesn’t matter if you look like George Clooney I won’t be contacting you. In the emails I’ve sent I’ve tried to be interesting – asked them something about their profile that interested me. If there’s nothing in your profile – what can you say? Will see how it goes – not holding out much hope. BTW I’m slim, blond, fairly attractive (so my friends say), nice and not looking for a handsome prince or any of that rubbish, I don’t have high expectations… just a nice, genuine man will do me!
I am an average looking fifty year old divorced man with a ten year old daughter. I own my law firm and made about $300,000 last year. After thirty emails to 45-50 year olds on match.com – zero responses. Zero.
Then I saw one of the ladies I emailed working the cash register at a big box hardware store. For that 47 year old checkout girl, I wasn’t even good enough to even return an email.
There’s a reason people like me date women in their twenties.
This is what happens with Match. The great looking guys email the stunning looking women. But…the ratio of guys to women is totally skewered – too many guys are chasing too few girls- so even a lot of the good looking guys get hardly any responses and get disheatened- so what do these guys do? They aim a bit lower that they would normally and start emailing the above average looking women.
The knock on effect of this? The above average guys struggle to get much of look in when they email the above average women. So what do they do? – start emailing the average looking women. Then the average guys (the majority) struggle to get a look in so what do they do…i think you get the idea.
Basically, there are so many men on the site that its hard to get responses from girls in your league, so you try to go for girls a bit below what you’d normally consider, but even then you still find it tough because all the other guys in your league have had to do that too!
I have also read with interest the comments that guys with a poor hit rate for emails have only themselves to blame – they have an unimaginative profile, rubbish pictures, dont tailor their emails’. Well my hit rate for emails on match is probably similar to a lot of the other posters on here – less than 5% (none of which led to dates). But get this – i went on another site, USED EXACTLY THE SAME profile, pics and style of emails, only went for girls in my league and got something more like a 20% response rate and more importantly, some dates. Funny, that…
@Phil Steven
What was the site?
I have had similar low success rates as the other guys on here. I am 24, an engineer, 6’4, athletic, not brad pit but not ugly. I didn’t calculate what my first email out response rate was, but off the top of my head I would say it is <30%. I’m ok with that because you only need to find the one, but I’m having a problem keeping the fire lit in the following emails. I have found that if you have already talked for a few emails back and forth and you notice her giving less and less effort to keep the conversation going, dont email her for a day or two. It lets her know that she is not the only thing you have going on in your life. It adds a little mystery of who you are in her eyes too (“what was he doing that day,” “why didn’t he email me at 6 o’clock like he always does?”). When I do this it seems to add a spark to the conversation and she immediately puts more effort forth. I think response timing is important, and is something that hasn’t been addressed here. This of course only applies after she has responded to your initial email.
Wow! After reading the comments on this site, I feel like a stud with my ~10% response rate on match. It’s interesting to note that the only guy on here who isn’t 50 (post menopausal women aren’t exactly in high demand) who claims to have much success is the guy who makes a living selling online dating guides.
I agree with others who have said it’s simple economics. Since guys are expected to initiate, and since it’s so easy to send messages, women get far more attention from far more attractive guys than they otherwise would. The result is a very unfriendly market for guys. Trust me when I tell you have a better chance just going to a semi public place (Whole Foods, a book store, bar etc) and just chatting up women in your league. If you enjoy going to those places anyway, the “cost” to you is zero.
I guess I’ve had a different experience than most on here. As a guy, I’ve clocked in at 100% response rate. Granted my email pool was a total of 6 and I was very specific with what I was looking forward (yes, very attractive was one of them). I know many say its a numbers game but after going on some great first dates with these girls it gets real hard to manage “numbers”…a nice problem to have in a way. I asked them why they replied (in light humorous banter of course) and it came down to 3 things (none of which will be a revelation to readers here): 1) a well written, balanced profile with self-deprecating humor, 2) nice photos demonstrating that I’m attractive and 3) an opening email with substance that refers directly to her profile and uses a “hook” subject line to draw her in.
Having asked a couple of my girlfriends to show me the emails they get from guys, it’s no freaking wonder so many guys have such a low hit rate for 2 primary reasons. These girls were receiving 1)a sh!tton of obviously canned emails from, 2) people that didn’t at all fit the profile of what they clearly stated they were looking for. Seriously, the VAST MAJORITY of emails they got fit BOTH of these criteria!
Lessons? Instead of blasts, get super targeted with your emails. Since you’re writing less emails, make yours better than the others she’ll get (that goes for adding a good subject line), write a profile that is genuine, funny (not too funny) and self-deprecating. And get some damn flattering pics up with a nice genuine smile.
I’m a data point of one and could be full of sh!t, but you may wish to give my suggestions a shot.
@Chris #168 for me it’s just the opposite. I have the same exact profile up on Match and POF. First off in my area/age range(Chicago suburbs 42-55 age range) I can barely find any women on POF that I WANT to email and when I do I get ignored 99% of the time and in 4 yrs I might of met 5 women from POF. On Match every day there’s a lot of women to email and the sheer numbers of quality female profiles is almost shocking and because I do keep track(not by %) in the last 2 1/2 yrs. I’ve met around 30 on Match and 5 on POF. But I email way more women on Match because the quantity and quality is there. We call POF the “trailor park” of internet dating sites in my area…LOL In other words you get what you pay for. I would say less than 5% of women in my area are on both sites. My profile always stays hidden on POF so the only women that see it are the very few that I chosse email. When I do put it “up”(searchable) for a day or 2 believe me you wouldn’t believe who emails or wants to “meet me”(POF’s version of winking)…LOL 🙂
And Mike #179 6 for 6? Good for you! But like you and everyone above me in this thread, unless we all see your exact profile/pics as well as those that you’re emailing and competeing against it’s hard to judge anyone’s “response rate” etc all of these things matter…… Just sayin…….One persons “attractive” is another persons “Ewwwww”.
@JB, you’ll just have to take ‘ol anonymous me at my word that I’m only emailing women that would probably be considered top 10% attractive, in no less a big city …in other words, zero risk of the “ewwww” factor. 😉 Since I’m pretty much anonymous here, I have no compelling reason to boast or make sh!t up. Although, yeah, I’m pretty damn proud of my response rate (8 for 8 at this point). Just thought I’d share what I think works for me and hope it may benefit others.
I have some very good looking male friends and they get maybe max 50% response rate. Having looked at their profiles, they’re invariably missing the self-deprecating humor part and their opening emails are way, way, way too low effort.
Interesting…. I’ve ready all of your posts and it appears that online dating isn’t very effective.
I’m a woman, 28, and I’ve never been married, educated, slender, pretty and well rounded. I have tried pretty much all the sites. From eHarmony, Match.com, POF, OK Cupid and even Christian Mingle. None has worked.
How does one meet your soul mate these days? Why is it so hard!
You’re right, Serena, OLD doesn’t work very well. I’ll tell you why it’s hard. You’ve got 100% of the women chasing the top 20% of the men, and not even giving guys who are actually in their league so much as the time of day. Problem is, the top 20% of the male population is only interested in the top 20% of the female population. That means 80% of the women online are getting suboptimal results, wondering why they’re not having any success, (then they blame it all on men, natch) and 80% of the guys aren’t getting anywhere at all.
The thing that amazes me about OLD is something that works in such a lopsided way is as profitable as it is. Right now, OLD only works for women, and for a handful of guys who were blessed with good looks.
The only suggestion I can make is that women are going to have to change their standards and stop insisting on perfection when they themselves are far, far from perfect.
I tried to do what you mentioned in the article in match.com, and I have sent of 40 emails. And I have not had one single email response back. I don’t consider myself a super hot stud, Just normal average run of the mill guy. I don’t really understand what I am doing wrong.
I’ve read through almost all these comments because I find it really interesting how men and women experience online dating differently. Until I found this site and others like it I assumed most women typically got one or two emails a week; I had no idea that I was competing with hundreds of emails for the attention of one person (which is really quite disheartening and makes me want to take a completely different approach to dating, to be honest – if that even exists still). But perhaps there’s something that can be taken from that knowledge that will alter my approach in the future. My current approach has been to write a brief message complimenting the person on something in her profile and asking questions in order to start a conversation (which inevitably fails every time).
I do not believe that chemistry or the potential for a long term relationship can be quantified or accurately determined through a couple silly, flirty emails (at least not for me anyway). I would much prefer to get to truly get to know someone through a longer and more intimate exchange, but unfortunately that seems impossible because of the number of emails women receive. My own experience has been pretty atrocious, as I’ve been on Match, OKC, POF, and EH for 3 years now and have received all of 2 responses to emails I’ve sent. Every date I’ve gone on has been when the woman contacted me first.
I’m a 6’0″ caucasian male with far better than average looks (say 8 or 9 out of 10), very fit but not He-Man (I’m an avid swimmer), I have a master’s degree from one of the top schools in the country, and I have a respectable job that I do because I believe in it (work in nonprofits), but I’m not rich and I do not post my income online. I won’t lie, looks are important to me and do determine to some degree who I choose to contact, but more than anything I’m just looking for the person who would be right for ME. Based on my own experience and the experiences of others I’ve read about I do believe this is a flawed system that fails a large percentage of the population simply because of the nature of the game. Some people are good at it; some people are not, which in most cases really has very little to do with what kind of person you are or who you will truly click with in the long term. In a perfect world, women would have time and energy to get to know all the guys who sent them thoughtful messages, but unfortunately it’s just not that way. I think most guys are just like me – spinning their wheels in an environment where the deck is stacked against them, doomed to question their own worth because of a flawed system rather than any fault or inadequacy of their own.
Now, for my biggest online dating pet peeves:
1. Spammers: Seriously, all you do is occupy women’s time and make the rest of us who actually put effort into our emails less visible.
2. Women who wink and don’t respond: What a slap in the face that is. You’re basically saying “Here, you go through all the effort of composing an email, and then I’ll decide whether or not it’s worthy of my attention.” If you’re actually interested, send me a note with at least one question that shows you’re interested in who I am. I’ve completely stopped responding to winks for this reason.
3. Dating sites themselves: I’ve read a lot on here about how most members are non-paying or even bots. I can’t tell you how many bots have winked at me on Match. If the person is a non-paying member the site should post that information on the profile so guys like me don’t get insanely frustrated contacting people who can’t even read the email or aren’t actually serious about meeting/chatting.
4. Guys who message a woman and clearly do not fit within the specified criteria listed on the profile: Again, stop wasting their time and making it harder for the rest of us to get noticed.
5. Anyone who is looking for the ‘perfect match.’ It doesn’t exist, and even if it did you likely wouldn’t know it just by reading their profile or a message or two.
Well, I think my venting is done for now. If any attractive women in the CO area pity my experience and would like to get to know me, please respond to this thread 🙂
Cheers!
I’m really beginning to think there’s something wrong with Match.com. I’m on Match and Plenty of Fish at the moment and I can say that without a doubt, I have had a MUCH better experience on POF. I’ve been on several POF dates, and only two Match dates. Match has nothing but old men winking and emailing me. Sure, I get the occasional guy my age contacting me but they’re usually not my type (ie. wrong ethnicity, doesn’t want kids, too fat, allergic to animals, etc). On POF I have not had ONE guy over the age of 40 (my highest age limit) contacting me. There must be something in their filtering system that doesn’t allow people who are too old to contact me. Match needs to take a leaf out of their book, because I am so SICK of opening my emails only to find that the guy is almost as old as my father. I even specify in my profile that I want someone my age! I do NOT want to date someone over 40. No disrespect to them because I’m sure they’re good guys, but I want someone with whom I can share first experiences (ie. first husband-and-wife dance, first child, etc). Someone who is my peer in every way. I already have a father, I don’t need another one!
“I’m a 6’0”³ caucasian male with far better than average looks (say 8 or 9 out of 10).”
Lol. Sorry dude, but if you were far better than average your results would be far better than average. I don’t want to add to the already massive weight of fake profiles on match, but as an experiment, if you were to put pics on your profile of a guy you know for a fact women think is hot, you would be swamped with messages, and could get women stalking you in response to an email saying “Mother says I can have the car this weekend; wanna hang out with me?”
All people are, of psychological necessity, narcissistic to some extent. Much as vanity displeases us, we all tend to think we are better looking, more intelligent, and more unique and interesting than we actually are. Everybody on mathas and the other dating sites who has had poor results says the same thing; “I don’t get it! I’m so good looking, yet even mediocre chicis ignore me!” Sorry, but the number of responses you get is a much more reliable indicator of how physically attractive you are than your own biases self perception. And another thing; though being out of shapenor overweight can definitely turn girls off, being physically fit or even muscular doesn’t mean much to women if you don’t have a pretty face. It sucks to hear but it’s true.
There is no magic bullet here. Katz is selling stuff, and is a good looking, affluent, intelligent guy; he is in no position to be offering advice to people who just aren’t that hot, lol.
On the bright side, research suggests that the vast majority of cuseless are miserable anyway. All of this will be over sooner or later. The only real solution is alcohol, lol.
Autocorrect strikes again!
mathas = match
cuseless = couples
You know what would be helpful on sites like match (but which they’d never do because it would drive so many way)? Provide incentive for users to rate other users’ looks. A big part of the problem with these sites in in addition to all the other issues such as scammers and fake profiles) is that people tend to overestimate their attractiveness. Guests what, most people are 5s, not 10s, and if you’re desperate enough to resort to online dating sites, you’re probably even lower. Yet we all imagine we are at least a 7 and try to get the attention of 8s and 9s.
If we had a more realistic sense of our own attractiveness (or lack thereof) we’d choose our targets wiser and get more responses.
Here are some objective indicators of attractiveness however:
– If you are overweight, you are not good looking; don’t delude yourself otherwise
-If you are acne scarred, you are not good looking; don’t deluxe yourself otherwise
– If you have kids, most people will not be interested
-If you seek dates outside your race, ethnicity, or religion, you will likely be rejected. (or attract only people with a fetish); sad commentary on society but true nonetheless
– If you have been trying online date sites for several weeks and get no significant positive results, you aren’t good looking. Sorry, but it’s true
You don’t know anything about me, dude – least of all what I look like, so maybe you should stop speaking about things you don’t know anything about.
I don’t need to know what you look like; if you were really an 8 or 9 you wouldn’t do as bad as you stated on match. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just being realistic.
I personally am under no delusions that I’m a hot guy. Most women look at me and think “meh”. I wasn’t exactly swamped with suitors when I was on match, and had numerous ego bruising rejections, many from women I didn’t even find attractive but just saw something that intrigued me in their profile.
Yet I had a date with a really good looking women the first week I tried match and would hook up a with reasonably attractive women on a fairly regular basis there when I was using it (1 or 2 a month). And to be honest, my profile sucked. A half assed hastily thrown together thing with some crappy android pics.
And trust me, I don’t like online dating sites and am not here to defend them. Full of scammers and creeps and oddballs (man, I can tell some stories). And yeah, you gotta contact a LOT of women before you snag one and learn to steer clear of scammers and nuts. But you seem to have done especially poorly on there. If you’re really an 8 or a 9 you must be wearing a Nazi uniform in your profile pics or something because you would definitely do better than you say you have.
I think you make some good points here but it really shouldn’t be as hard a time as you’ve admitted to. If you really are as hot as you mere must be something really off about your profile that you aren’t aware of. The Nazi uniform bit is a joke, but could be something else. Seeking women far outside your age? Other races/ethnicities/religion etc.? A lot of women will just not date someone who isn’t of their preferred demographic.
Honestly, even if you were but ugly you should be doing better than you say; you’re doing something wrong.
Yeah, you’re right. I am doing something wrong. I just can’t figure it out. The whole thing is a mystery to me, and I just find it so awkward and strange when I can’t read peoples’ body language or facial expressions. Maybe that’s part of it.
A general comment about looks, not directed at jhc389, that really impressed upon me just how important looks are to people. The cardinal rule of course on dating sites is that you muse have a pic. People don’t respond to picture less profiles.
But when I first went on match, I was concerned about people I know seeing me on there. So naively, my first plan was to have a witty but pictureless profile and provide pics to women I was interested in. I knew I on omen wouldn’t initiate contact with me without a pic, but that was fine; I wanted to control who saw me.
There were a few problems with this approach. One was that match makes it surprisingly difficult. You can’t simply attach pcis to “talk match” emails. You have to do something like provide a link to a website with your pics. Match sometimes edits out links, and sometimes they just don’t work. And a lot of women are still spooked by a pic less profile anyway and won’t bother, or will think it’s spam or some such. In short, it just doesn’t work; you gotta post pics.
That said, during the brief time I was approaching women this way, I managed to get responses from some very interested, very attractive women. I guess I have a good rap, because a few tried really hard to find a way to see my pics. I generally either would use a humorous approach or else, believe it or not, pick up on something they said about their beliefs in their profile and lay some philosophical musings on them (believe it or not, a lot of women really like that). I have a couple of fairly substantial rounds of communication with a few hotties on there, who were really interested in me based on what I wrote to them alone. I guess I should be someone’s Cyrano DeBergerac, lol. They all said more or less the same thing: “I usually never respond to profiles without pics, but I’ll make an exception in this case” or something to that effect.
Anyway, in every case, when these women finally saw my pics, the interest was GONE. Yeah, OUCH! Kinda ego bruising. And it also leaves you somewhat disillusioned about humanity in general, to be somewhat melodramatic perhaps. Because some of these women were actually pretty intelligent, and had some interesting things to say. And when I would say to them something like, “what if you don’t like my picThey they invariably would say something like “oh, looks aren’t all that mattesuch or some such. They LIE, lol.
Now, I have a few friends who are bonafides studs with the ladies. Guys who can and do walk away with the hottest girl in the room whenever they’d go bar hopping or what have you. Babe magnets. And when they used match, which they would now and then, they would get swamped with hotties contacting them. Real girls, not Russian scam profiles. And their profiles were inane, and they were both really dumb guys. They had no capacity for witty banter or humor. Just “Yo, wassup” more or less. Basically, these guys were “guidos” (I’m from NYC).
So, yeah, looks matter, a helluva a lot more than wit or intellect. Looks are very important. In fact, a real good looking guy with no job or a very crappy job who lives with Mommy at age 30 will STILl hook up with hotties. They won’t want a serious LTR with a loser like that, but they’ll sleep with them. Repeatedly.
A guy with a lot of money can afford to be less attractive, but I’ll tell ya right nevent women will usually take a hot guy with a modest salary over an unattractive man with a mint. Both choices are shallow (one os for looks, the other for gold), but the ugly unvarnished truth is just that: people ARE shallow. We like to think we’re higher minded than that, nobler. But romantic attraction is driven by our most base, animal urges and instincts.
It occasionally snows Florida and lightning sometimes strikes twice so there may be the occasional exception that proves the rule, but in the main thems the facts. Unattractive people usually end up settling for what they can get. Or if they’re lucky they can meet a fact chick who’d be hot if she lost weight and slim her down ( i.e. a “project”), or a good looking women with poor social skills or low self esteem who doesn’t realize she’s cute, or maybe a foreignor who thinks any Amercian is attractive. There are some women with ethnic fetishes, that just go for certain ethnic types whether the dude is good looking or not. These are the loop holes.
As for ugly women, well, they’re kinda screwed. Figuratively. If they want the literal variety they can dress like a street walker and hang out in bars late at night and wait for the beer goggled patroboring get horny.
Cyncoal enough for ya? Oh, aren’t people horrible? Lol…
[Yeah, yeah, yeah, the autocorrect gods really killed me on that one. Oh, a kingdom for an edit button, Katz.]
In my case, over 850 women looked at my profile. One winked, we met for coffee, nice lady, she was too tall for me (I’m 5’6″, she’s 5’10” and a big 5’10” at that). One sent a ‘like’ for a date idea and met me for coffee and it turned out she wasn’t attracted to me. One went out with me for four dates but didn’t seem interested in being anything more than just friends. Out of the 35-odd emails I’ve sent to women, all have been ignored save for these three.
I must be super, super-ugly to get such poor results. I’m off to a therapist to try and rebuild my shattered self-esteem (fuck you very much, Match!), and then I’m off to the Philippines or Thailand to find someone who will actually appreciate me for who I am and not expect me to be this mythical knight-in-shining-armour Mr. Perfect. Western women are incredibly selfish, spoiled, and unreasonably picky and they treat men horribly. I see a future involving lots of loneliness and lots of cats for most of them, because men aren’t going to put up with this kind of garbage for much longer!
I don’t really send out emails anymore on Match. Mine don’t even get read before the 30 days passes.
Hi,
I got on Match last year because for about two years I did not met anyone I was interested in, everyone I met seemed too young, or in a relationship, or not a match at all. A friend’s friend just got married and met her husband on Match. So I was, why not?
I was active in Match for like 3 weeks. I was approached (winked or emails) by about 400 I think, and from those about 120 mails or so. I emailed back if the grammar was decent, the mail was OK, and according the profile there could be a match. I had rules like guys with pictures of them in a mirror was a big NO, for instance, or guys showing off their muscles, etc. I had an email conversation with about 35 guys. I met like 12. But then I met a guy who seemed so genuine, and even though it was not crazy attraction from date one, he pursued me, and he was so nice, and fun…that well I started liking him more and more. We started dating almost right after. After about a year we got engaged, and now happily married. I had good experiences with the people I met, most were pretty cool and seemed normal. Only one out the 12 was kind of weird.
I rarely get a response i’m 1 for 60 or so…or they may respond but once i try to take it to the next level and try to meet in person…they never write back, I don’t send mass emails, I read way too many profiles, try my best to be social, and nothing. Match has made me 3 times more depressed.
The “average” is around 7% or less. http://forpoorer.blogspot.com/2013/11/whats-average-online-dating-email.html. If you’re a “desirable” man and you know what you’re doing, you can expect 20% to 30%.
I am surprised to hear how many guys say they get no responses. I must admit, I do not reply to all of my e-mails (I am just overwhelmed, I can’t reply to them all ) I reply to men who’ve intially contacted me, and then never hear from them again. Or we e-mail for awhile, and they disappear. Of they ask for my phone #, then don’t call. Or they break a date the day before. And no, I’m not an uggo or illiterate.
Of course, I have successes to. I have gone out on many dates with good guys who just weren’t a match for me. I have also met several couples who are together due to online dating. So since every couple I know consists of a man and a woman, it has to be working for some men.
Hello SparklingEmerald,
I just wanted to say what a lovely username: an excellent start which makes you sound interesting already. You deserve to succeed in your quest.
I’m sorry to hear of the lack of second e-mail responses. You can obviously write, so this sounds inexplicable. Perhaps you’ve been replying to ‘shotgun technique’ men who aren’t really serious.
And date-cancellation is absolutely unacceptable (except perhaps in the case of direct meteorite-strike, with attached photographic evidence.) Delete and block this fool immediately!
Have fun and good luck,
Mark x
Hello Iridium_Moon – I think my initial post must be over a year old, and I don’t recall seeing your nice reply.
It’s funny, when I first join OLD, I WAS overwhelmed with e-mails, but they mostly seemed to go nowhere. I was an on and off OLDer. The last incarnation of OLD, the response dwindled down to a teensy-tiny trickle.
But despite the teensy-tiny trickle, I met someone who is really a good match and I couldn’t be happier. Quality won out over quantity ! The only reason we aren’t together tonight, is because I had a scheduled rehearsal, which got cancelled at the last minute, so I decided to use this opportunity to grocery shop for and cook up a big pot of white chilie for when we see each other later this week.
I have learned that there are LOTS of scammers, fake profiles, etc (amoung the real, sincere ones) I have uploaded pictures through google search and have found that these men are on several dating sites, under various occupations and living in various countries. So I have been contacted by cat-fishers, not only through the dating sites, but through facebookd and meet-up. I have also had men write to me and freely admit that they have posted fake profiles as women to see “their competition” which means they themselves may have contributed to the frustration that men face in OLD.
TWICE, I have responded to very attractive men who listed their height as 5’1″ — 2 inches shorter than myself. We’ve gotten as far as talking on the phone. One very enthusiastically asked to meet me, one was enthusiastic by e-mail and lost interest on the phone. Mr enthusiastic on the phone sent me a text just hours before we were too meet and said “I have to cancel our date. Turns out we aren’t a match after all”. Since various commenters in various forums admit to posting different profiles online and tampering with the height to prove a point (about how awful women are) I wonder if one or maybe even both of these guys were doing their own social research, and I blew their hypothesis. And to meet me if they were significantly taller than what they state in their profile would be rather awkward.
I have also, to my dismay have read that OLD sites have been conducting social experiments through their sites and one article even said that match sent out fake winks. I always thought it was strange that I was getting winks from drop dead gorgeous guy from across the country. (which I never responded to) Probably an experiment to prove that women will respond to crumbs from men thousands of miles away if he is a super hottie.
But after 3 years of on and off OLD and meeting fakers, flakers,users, losers, jerks, catfishers, guys looking for NSA sex, and some very good men who just weren’t a match, I found my needle in a haystack.
So not all OLD rejection might be real rejection. It could just be the collateral damage from social research projects, by the OLD sites, and people with just to much time on their hands. Or catfishers who were never going to meet anyone anyway, just try and scam people for money.
Congratulations, S.E., I’m glad your faith and continued efforts were rewarded. 🙂
I discuss my experience with Match over here, including response rate:
http://itriedmatchdotcomexperience.blogspot.com/2013/12/my-experience-with-match.html
I’ve been on Match.com for about 6 months with a 2 month break in the middle. In the beginning, I didn’t really know what I was doing and sent out way too many emails. I estimate about 20. I got 1 response: thanks but no thanks. I decided to get better at writing emails and narrow down my prospects. After that, I sent very few emails and ending up getting 3 dates. The first two were of no interest to me and the third I enjoyed very much but the feeling was not reciprocated. Very frustrating! The thing that bothers me the most is that I’ve received so many winks, likes, and interests, but no woman has ever actually written me an email and initiated a conversation… what is with that?!
Hey, ML – whoever you are — you write a lot of sense. And well-written, literate, correctly-punctuated, humorous sense to boot. That helps a lot if you want to attract women!
I used Match for a time and found it huge fun. It was not difficult to get responses to the majority of emails I sent, 80% plus. I am saddened to hear that this doesn’t happen with all of my fellow men 🙂
With one single exception I always replied to incoming mail, but never to winks. Nor did I ever insult a woman by sending a ‘wink’. If a man can’t be bothered to write a few lines to a woman, what kind of a lover is he going to be? A lazy-arsed selfish twit I’d have thought. Do you really want to advertise that fact? 🙂
I’ve had quite a few dates in my local area, and all were massive fun. But I did pre-select for those who could write, and sometimes even demonstrate their profound sensuality by use of the semi-colon 🙂
I found my long-term partner online: she’s beautiful, fun, has an IQ off the scale, and is bisexual too, which I, being something of a voyeuristic perv, found a huge bonus 🙂 This indicates that dream partners ARE out there, but they have to be snapped up quick!
I think one of the ‘secrets’ is not to try too hard. Desperation is extremely unattractive: even to those who are desperate themselves. And Match does have a fair percentage of people from that particular demographic …
The other important thing is to craft an interesting profile. On two occasions I’ve sat at a date’s home and, with much laughter – unfair I know – been shown other chaps’ profiles and initial emails. It’s a cliché, but it’s not hard to see why some guys are single.
I mean, lines of x’s and nothing else, sexual stuff on first contact, ‘your hot, lets meet’ (sic), and so on; does this stuff ever work? Gentlemen, there is a LOT of competition out there for attractive women on Match. You must do better than that.
All the best and good luck!
Mark
Oh and while I’m in didactic mood, here’s some (perhaps presumptuous, but there it is) advice for the women.
I adore and respect women — most of my friends are of the female persuasion — and would rarely ‘reject’ any matchgirl who writes to me, even where I saw no chance of physical or romantic attraction (either way). I genuinely am happy with the friendship thing.
But there were/are a few criteria which cause immediate rejection. Of course I don’t know if this is just me, or a more general feeling among the men. It would be interesting to discuss. So here goes:
1. Too beautiful a picture. Yes, it’s true! Supermodel profiles belong to scammers. Always ignored and blocked immediately.
2. No picture at all. This demonstrates either a supremely ugly woman (rare) who compounds this by taking no care of herself or, more likely, a lack of confidence. Neither trait is attractive.
3. No smile, just a blurry glare/swivel-eyed lunatic stare taken in a mirror, often with a flash in the picture. This is, quite simply, terrifying.
4. A picture showing greasy/dirty hair. Yes, really.
5. This is the BIG turn off! (For me, anyway.)
Pictures of cats. Or other bloody animals. Please don’t misunderstand – I do like animals (and find many species delicious) but I’m on a dating site to meet a human female, not an animal. I may be a bit of a perv sometimes, but there are limits 🙂
Perhaps those pictures are supposed to demonstrate how lovely you are; how showing yourself cuddling two cats, or hugging a big smelly dog, makes you appear a kind and caring person with so much love to give. This may well be true. But no animals on a dating site please. It’s a big and immediate turn-off. Men will think you are a sad, lonely, desperate potential bunny-boiler. You will attract only the male equivalents.
(One exception might be working dogs on a farm, or horses, as these indicate less of the creepy sex-substitute paradigm.)
To be fair, the male Match equivalent is a picture of some saddo standing (oh so proudly) next to his CAR!
And that applies even if it is an Aston Martin: surprise her by picking her up in it, don’t talk about it or show it off, as that makes it appear it’s ALL you’ve got; and that you’re probably a boring w*nker 🙂
6. Pictures of groups of giggly girls. Although obvious to you, it is usually impossible for the casual viewer to discern which individual is you. It may also provide the impression that you can only ‘do this’ if put up to it by your drunken mates. This does not demonstrate maturity, and is not a good look.
I could go on. And on. And often do 🙂
But I also have to eat. Have fun and good luck!
Mark x
What a man writes to me, or how well he writes his profile is not that important at all to me.
If he has has the right statistics, and shares some things in common, and I am attracted….I will write back!
I really don’t think it matters that much what you write in a message. If the person is already attracted to you, nothing you write will change that much. Some one I’m attracted to writing me a “boring generic” message will always be way more awesome than some one unattractive writing me the wittiest, funniest first message ever. I think almost everyone has been there, yeah?
Brandon, (#198)
I can’t really relate.
When a beautiful young woman sent me the standard boring, generic email spam, I assumed she was either trying to pull a scam, or trying to obtain a green card.
Neither of those strike me as “way more awesome” than a witty, funny message. If I found the woman unattractive, it still wasn’t going to go anywhere. But at least it meant that I was drawing the genuine interest and attention of women who were capable of being witty and funny.
Karl R (199)
That’s great and all, but it still doesn’t change the fact that some one I’m attracted to writing me a “boring, generic” message will always be awesomer than some one unattractive writing me the wittiest, funniest first message ever. But, to each their own.
Karl R, I’m with you on this one.
Brandon, how can you know if you’re really ‘attracted to someone’ without a few back-and-forth emails, preferably with some substance? Are you suggesting that just looking at a few pictures and reading a profile is enough, and that, conversely, you wouldn’t be put off by receiving an idiotic, thoughtless e-mail?
If so, that strikes me as a spectacularly shallow way to gauge true attractiveness.
Unless, of course, you are looking only for a quick shag – an acceptable aim in many circumstances 🙂 – but not, I suspect, what this site is about.
First off, I will say that as an attractive women (40) I get a lot of emails from men who I would NEVER date and it is very confusing. The reason it’s confusing is because if these men really read my profile, they would instantly know that we were NOT right for each other. On the RARE occasion that I do get an email from an interesting man, starting off with “Hi, I’m ____. can I have your number?” will get you nowhere. Men who write emails who refer to things I’ve written in my profile and then tell me WHY they liked it or HOW something I said is similar to them in some way DOES work. Men shouldn’t ask for a woman’s number until you have had some time to chat back and forth for a while and get “a feel” for who that person is! Then, the man should be a gentleman and say something like , ‘I’d like to get to know you better. Do you feel comfortable giving me your number? Or, would you prefer to email more?” Something like that will make a man stand out. I know it seems obvious but most men that I have encountered don’t get this.
I must be writing the wrong women then because I always read to see if there’s a glaring mismatch, then I refer to things in the profile like you say. I’d never ask for a # right away. I would just be happy to chat with someone to start, but I never get responses, even from women who said they were interested first.
Hi Evan,
my case is a weird one . I have tried almost all the dating sites . I have sent about 300 requests but I have received less than 10 responses so far . I am a professional , active, intellectual and sportive guy and according to what my friends says , i am good looking although I see myself as an average looking guy . Every girl who knows me says how come you cannot find a partner !
I think I have most of the qualities a girl may look for and I am looking for a serious relationship but this extremely low rate of response makes me think maybe it is really the question of looks.
Here is my debacle – I have been online dating on and off for about 3 years. I don’t think I have ever written a first email to a man. My inbox is flooded with emails and winks from men – both desirable candidates and not so desirable ones. I make an effort to respond to all emails (even the ones that I do not want to date, because hey, the dating game ain’t easy).
I have implemented the 2-2-2 rule of two emails on-site, two emails off-site and two txts/phone calls before meeting up, which nicely screens for men only looking for a pen pal. I go out on at least two first dates per week, and I frequently hear how this is the best first date Mr. Man has ever been on blah blah blah….how is a girl like me single? yadda yadda. After the date, I lean back and let him follow up with me. A few txts or emails later and….poof! He is gone. I date a lot of men who are very alpha and have busy careers, but I call bulls*it on anyone who doesn’t even have the time to fire off a quick txt message.
A few weeks later, after I have been left to wonder what happened, Mr. Man contacts me. I rarely respond to these communications, as I don’t want to inspire flaky men to be even flakier.
Then we have the men who get angry when they realize I am really not having sex with them on the first date. I am not sure which is more exhausting.
I just don’t get it. It is really frustrating. I know there are successful relationships left, right and center of me. I am so sick of first dates….sitting home by myself and a glass of wine while watching HGTV is becoming a very attractive option.
So does anyone want to tell my why women take so long to reply when they actually do start a conversation? Especially when they initiated the conversation in the first place… I had this woman email ME for a change and I replied to a degree that shows that I am genuinely interested and I had actually read her profile. 30 minutes later the message came up as “read”. I assumed it would take her another 30 minutes to reply to me as it did take me some time to compose something after I read her initial message. Though it has been a couple of days now and she frequently pops up online. Is this just what women do because they think they are “playing it cool”? Or is this just a fake profile perpetrated by Match to occasionally give male users “hope” in the program? I have had them stop conversing with me in the past after several exchanges and even after attempting to come up with plans for a first date. The difference with those is I initiated the conversation instead. It does not make it any less wrong on their part but you would think that someone who showed interest in me first would at least be straight forward. I don’t get it, does any one have answers to this or have experienced the same? It’s really making me have cynical feelings towards the true nature of all people.
It’s funny isn’t it… Comparing the response rates of man to woman communication versus woman to man communication. Think about it.
To be honest, I wouldn’t have responded to the Costa Rica email if it was real. I thought it sounded way too smartass…a real turn-off.
I’m currently dating a guy I met on match.com. He didn’t write the most exciting email I have ever read, but I am so glad I met him. He is the best boyfriend I have ever had. I’m sure that following Evan’s advice helped too, of course 😉
I am male, 32, 5’11”, white, slim/athletic, looking for relationship.
I contacted about 200+ women. 3 responses that lasted 2 or 3 messages. 0 dates. Girl just stopped responding without indication as to why.
I was very genuine. Not creepy or needy sounding. I wrote some creative messages, some confident sounding ones, and some sweet ones to see if anything works. The girls I contacted were all average or a little above average. They were average body types and some chubby looking ones as well. I was trying to contact girls that looked on par with my previous girlfriends or a little below their looks. Absolutely zero success with responses.
Hi Ed, that’s appalling!
You sound like a nice chap, so how about an experiment?
Post here, or link to, a précis of your profile, and some extracts from your mails, and let the ladies on here suggest what, if anything, you’re doing wrong.
Might be fun, and instructive to others too. We are all on the same side!
Cheers
Mark
I have come to the conclusion that, whatever you do with regards to – replying to all emails, ignoring the ones who simply don’t float your boat or they haven’t made any effort with the initial contact or giving feedback, it will never be right!
I’m not sure any of us would appreciate negative feedback from a person we think we like from their profile and photographs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! Internet dating is great and awful in equal quantities. It can be a very lonely experience and the anticipation can turn to disappointment / rejection / happiness in a split second.
The traditional way of dating was so much more romantic and a socialble experience. At least you had your friends to reminisce about the person you met and will you see them again or about what you will wear for your date.
I would go back in time to the 1920’s in a heartbeat!
It is human nature to want someone more attractive there have been two studies on this issue both times everyone who volunteered dressed up in a body suit the first one all makeup was removed hair was pulled back photos were taken and then showed to another group the second study much the same how ever numbers were randomly place on each participant’s for head the results everyone tried to pair up with higher numbers .It seems that all of the effort in creating a algorithm based profile did not better than random choice
I’ve had atrocious luck overall in online dating. My “best” experience was living in South Texas, which has a majority of Latinos, specifically Mexican. Within a couple of months I had four dates. I say this because in my life, as a Latino man, I’ve noticed pretty much any girl who’s shown interest in me was either Latino or some kind of “ethnic” heritage, like Arabic or Indian. Fast forward here in Central Florida over a couple of months, I’ve had zero dates and only one response that vanished. I’ve never put too much effort into emails because most women reply simply on attraction. I’ve had simple “how are you/where are you from message” that have gotten replies and I’ve written in-depth, careful messages that are tossed aside, and vice versa. I think Evan overestimates the importance of emails and negates the powerful fact of the “halo effect”. If a guy looks good and is tall, he’ll get a reply most of the time no matter what he writes unless it’s some crazy psychobabble. On the other hand, a short unattractive guy can write the greatest, funniest prose every put on display and once the woman sees the pics and height number, they move on. Honestly speaking, if a female I find unattractive writes me, it doesn’t matter what she writes. It’s just the way it is and online dating is a meat market and simply a cruel game of batting averages.
John, it’s true that you can’t control whom you’re attracted to. But for you, if you are as homely and short as you imply, you need to write to women that would find you attractive, which would mean women you don’t find attractive out of the gate, e.g., women “below your league”.
Date women based on what they write in their profiles and not what they look like.
Perhaps if you practiced what you preached, good karma would come your way.
Great advice. I did that. I stopped wasting time on the hottest guys who had little interest in settling down and opened myself to guys I had been looking past, and found a guy that I truly enjoy being around. At first, it was in my mind that he was not as hot as I was used to dating, but the most we spent time together, the less that entered my mind. Now, I see him as better than those unattainable guys. I enjoy spending time with him, more than any guy I have ever known.
If he stops looking for a fantasy, and starts looking for a best friend, he will find happiness. If he keeps doing what he has been doing, he will only find loneliness.
Love is self belive
Men, Do yourselves a favor, stop wasting your time trying to come up with the perfect line or picture, hoping that she will grace you with a reply. Save up your money and rent yourself a high-end hooker every so often. That’s pretty much all we’re looking for anyway, be honest. These dating sites are a giant waste of time. I’m told I’m a fairly attractive guy, but I couldn’t be bothered dealing with these crazy people… they call women!
Well, I agree with TotallyFedUp211 on this point: Guys, if all you’re looking for is a high-end hooker, then yes! Please do stay off the dating websites.
Right, I need to take even more time reading through every girl’s profile and waste more time coming up with unique messages for them, when they never even read them. I’ve messaged like 30 or 40 people, spending a lot of time reading our similarities and their backgrounds, and after all that work, only 2 or 3 even had the decency to respond once, if only to make some polite conversation. The rest couldn’t take 1% of the time I spent writing those messages to even notice my existence. I’m sick of this online crap, I’ve never had a problem with just talking to women in real life, yet just about everyone online is incredibly stuck up and thinks they’re a 10.
The dating sites are kind of pointless for men. There is four or five times as many men on the sites as women. The truth is most of the guys on the sites are average to even somewhat handsome. That isn’t meant as an insult at all. Most of us are average joes. A buddy of mine who has never had a problem getting women in real life but never found the right one put out an ad on a couple of sites. Now we are talking about someone with a good job, works out a lot, etc. yet he probably got a response to maybe 1 out of every 20 or 30 emails he sent which is sadly a higher percentage than a lot of us. If you stay on for a long, long period of time you might get lucky and get the occasional response but it is going to take a lot of patience. Also, if you live in a smaller town your odds are even smaller because a lot of women only want to date someone close which is understandable. In addition, depending on their search criteria they may not even see your profile. I live in a small town and when I was on Match.com there were actually only about 15 women within close radius of my town. That limits your odds a whole lot and I would say three or four of the profiles looked like models so it was a fake ad. The biggest thing is don’t take it personal it is happening to almost every one and there is nothing wrong with any of you. The fact is if you are on a dating site it is because you are frustrated by the lack of quality people out there, so any lady that wants to ignore you or be standoffish needs to realize she is on a website for a reason too. Lastly, you have to also remember most of the women on these sites aren’t going to look at your profile or contact you first, so it means you have to do it. What’s the problem then? The problem is she may be getting 100 emails a day from guys so chances are she isn’t even reading most of your emails and possibly deleting them or you are competing with every other guy out there who frankly is probably about equal to you in looks (not an insult), probably is about equal in terms of profile, etc. In other words, it is all a crap shoot. If you are on the Plenty of Fish one the number of men on there is astronomical so if you get a response one out fifty times you are doing better than most and that Meet Me thing they have is an absolute joke but consider this.If you do get even one Meet Me that means someone at least liked your picture as shallow as it is.
Are we all talking about the same website here??!! I have a 10% response rate- I’ve been on the website for almost 6 mths now. Withon the past few months, I wrote to ten guys and only 1 wrote me back, which is completely absurd!! I’m over this website. I’m 31, never been married, no kids, very physically attractive ( in real life, men hit on me all the time and both men and women compliment me on my looks often), in good shape, and successful professionally.
I am the “male version” of Jenny. To hell with Match.com. I will make sure nobody I know uses that site going forward. I want them to go bankrupt, fail and shut down. NOW. useless garbage.
I’m curious what happens to all of these hot women that don’t respond to anyone. I see them on there for months so they must not be getting any action either
People know what they want and I will be the first to admit that I have a number of upfront deal breakers that will prevent me from even replying to a guy. He may be attractive and tall, but if he is conservative, no go. Same with a man who states that he attends church regularly in his profile. Or he may be a erudite, liberal guy who pushes my buttons intellectually, but if he is significantly overweight nothing will change my physical distaste.
I’m not saying I am “hot”, but I am saying that all women do have the same problems finding someone who meets their criteria.
Ahh, I used humor in a response and the man came back with “Go f*** yourself. Find a man with a weight set and no self esteem.” Huh? I was pointing out bad opening statements from men that I have gotten, adding “don’t use those! LOL”. The beauty? That’s how he presented himself. When I said “sorry to hear you don’t understand sarcastic humor” he responded with 13, yes, 13 messages, begging to apologize in person, gave his number, invited me to a Halloween party.
Yeah – like I’d give a guy who tells me to go f myself and find someone else any more of my time. It was actually a GREAT way to weed out the oversensitive boobs like this one….
I have been successful in dating websites. I tried match.com, plenty of fish and landed long-term dates. My fault that I got so cocky and i ended up dumping a couple of women that were marriage material and loved me. I learned my lesson. I just meet the young and good looking ones.
I learned what attract women: 1) fitness. Specially a nice flat abs 2) social position. If you a nice job the they fall for that too, but number 1 is the must have 3) dress well and have a style 4) pretend you are compassionate. all cliche profile, etc is terciary. You can write all day long and they wont respond if you are not fit.
As I am writing here, I am already making plans
FACT: Online Dating (like Match.com) is more boring and a bigger waste of time than watching paint dry on a wall.
Only if no one writes back to you.
When i fisrt started emialing on match.com my responce rate was 2.22% ……. After reading this and trying several new techniques my responce rate is: 2.22%. I get the feeling that match.com joke or just not for me.
It is only good if you are the top 10% of the good looking index. I am starting to find out that dating sites are only just for hookups and for nothing serious.
I am both a realist and a man who very unfortunately has had to try online dating. The quality of an initial introductory message is a variable but it is not, like the dating pundits think, a huge factor in determining eliciting a response. For men, the whole process is difficult and frustrating. There are profiles of women on these sites that are no longer valid. They have expired but are just left on the site. Good luck with any of these (ghost) ladies liking your message and responding to you. Ok, that is a segment of the site population but many ladies are on the site legitimately. Many, I think, most ladies know they are in the driver’s seat in this dating process. They may look at your photo, check your height, & just as soon delete your written effort, giving it no chance or credibility.
Like anything else, there is always some expert out there who knows all the ropes & for a fee will help you craft a dating site message. Give me a break! I hope I get fortunate enough, one way or the other , to meet a quality lady to share & enjoy life. I would never think of the garbage involved with internet dating again, because after all, I have led a good life and have no intention of winding up in Hades, which for me, would be an endless existence on dating sites!
If dating has to be this complicated and this scientific, I would either just stay single or just get a mail order bride. I mean seriously! She is going to judge how weak you are off of a sentence? Plus on most dating sites women are highly picky and superficial. Looks are by far the top of the list. Most don’t even read the full profile. And then the height thing! Almost 90% want a guy who is at least 6 foot! Being picky means that you will lose more chances to meet Mr Right than just getting to know someone. Online dating is much like searching for a job online. If you don’t have the right resume, it just gets thrown in the trash.
I suspect that the UK is different
The women generally are not serious about having a relationship preferring to tell themselves that belonging to match means they are doing something without actually having to meet anyone.
They are too arrogant to reply to messages or even to put in any effort toward making first contact.
A typical woman’s profile will include photos from 15 years ago, their dog or cat 3 times, an emote quote and a picture with their friends from which they cannot be individually indentified.
Many of them would be happier if they went to a rescue centre and got themselves a pet, many of the others are just out for a free dinner.
I think men and women have the same experiences, regardless.
I’ve been on both eharmony and Match, better luck with Match. However, this most recent “tour” of Match has yielded nothing. I’ve sent out over 15 emails in 2 months and not one reply. I have been told I’m attractive, have a great smile, twinkling eyes and a nice figure. My profile is well written, have many interests, great sense of humor and my requirements are 5 yrs younger to 5 years older. My emails are personalized and reference the man’s profile interests in the emails. I only send emails to men who fit my profile. I find it rather disheartening that I don’t even get the thank you but no thank you, however I do respond in some form when I receive emails.
What I get are men in there 20s and 30s, old enough to be their mother, and men in there 70s that remind me of my father.
And yes, I also get the spammers, and I don’t respond to them
I also know that there are more women on both eharmony and Match then there are men.
I don’t know if there is a solution or not…..
15 emails in two months? I send that in one day! And I never get ANY unsolicited emails, ever. So no Wondering, men and women have it much differently in terms of online dating. Don’t believe me? Google this: Men Online Dating Email Response. It’s a much worse for men, far worse than you can imagine, and no there are much more men online than women, in the order of 10:1. You don’t know how good you have it.
i just ‘re-launched’ my profile this week after a 2 month hiatus on a senior dating website. I bought this program, spent the time to read each chapter, twice, do all of the exercises, updated my username and profile, and had new professional photos taken. I am here to attest that this stuff works! I’ve already gotten better responses, and many compliments on my profile, and it’s only been four days. I would say at least a 50% response rate! Thank you Evan.
yes, I’m still getting the generic ‘winks’, the scammers, etc., but those are easy to weed out and not waste any time on. One of the key points is to look for people who are looking for you, your age, your height, body type, etc. and stop being so selective that you are disqualifying 90% of candidates right off the bat. My ‘about you’ essay starts with “I don’t take a list with me to the grocery store, and I don’t have a list of who you should be either. When we meet up, we’ll see if it’s a good fit, deal?”
I’m in that category that EMK would call more challenging as I’m mid 50’s, a few extra pounds, etc. but guess what? Not all men are attracted to stick thin women, if some are, fine, then we are not a match, no big deal. If they want younger, fine, we are not a match. I don’t take it personal.
Women email men on dating sites? You can’t be serious. Maybe once every 90 days I will get a “like” on one of my photos and it ain’t of me. And sending emails to women is to send the emails into cyber oblivious. Women don’t even delete them after months let alone read them. I am beginning to think there are no woman on the dating sites. Just pictures of women to get men to subscribe.
My personal experiences show that most women will see they have a message from you.. then go look at your pictures before reading the email.. if they dont like your pictures bang your email gets deleted without being read..then also figure on match.com at least 75% of their database are unpaid members.. and the site goes to great lengths to keep you on there..
Sorry Evan but you are full of it. This is your job. Hey I can smile and be handsome for a living but all the guys on here have a massive point.
I’ve only been on Match for a couple of weeks. I have a witty profile. My emails are witty, banter and charming. Nothing.
Here is my view on it. Success for men is geographicaly related. In big, popular cities women have an over inflated view of themselves. They think they deserve a superly attractive guy with a massive wage packet. They then complain that there’s no good men out there and ‘why am i single’ they then post generic profiles like ‘Looking for tall, dark, handsome Prince’.
So Evan, just because you have been lucky does not make you an authority on women. At the end of the day Women are shallow and with the addition of geographic location it is just a hopeless situation for us guys.
Call me sexist, call me bitter but you would be wrong. I am just making an observation from experience.
Okay, I’ll call you sexist and bitter – based on your experience and what you wrote above.
Quick disclaimer before anyone chooses to moan: The following is just my experiences of Match, I consider myself to be above average in looks and I am very successful career wise, however I am really shy. I have had relationships with people whom I met online in real life so I expected good results from Match but I was wrong and luckily cancelled within 14 days and got my money back.
The problem I found with Match.com is that it presents a very small pool (I’d love to see the ratio they have between men and women) plus these women all have to pay so they all have ‘skin in the game’. This means that the typical guy approach which is to play the numbers game, approach as many women as possible, try to come up with something original to say will nearly always backfire, here’s why. On match, women can be selective as anything, in fact all they have to do is put up a profile and literally messages will come flooding in. Most guys will go for women who they see as above average or attractive and send them messages and the result will be….crickets…nada…nothing… The women have been inundated and you are at the back of the queue… I found this out because like a previous reader I posted a fake female ad and I was nearly overwhelmed. The problem is guys have been socialised to ‘the chase’, ‘hunting of the opposite sex’ is everything and getting what you want (ideally a relationship) is everything but do that on Match and your options will soon run out (unless you want to be seen as creepy). Whereas females (I don’t wish to put any female down) can get all the validation, attention and time they want, which in essence is the only power real power men have in social dynamics. Match also plays this as they put up profiles of those who have paid as well as those that have not, so as a guy you can take ages crafting a well sculptured message only to find out that the intended recipient won’t be able to read it unless they pay for a subscription or you pay for a ‘bolt on’ so everyone can contact you. Its a really naughty game and not a kinky one at that. Match Affinty presents a better option in that you can’t ‘hunt’ and are only sent details of potential members of the opposite sex every day – to be fair I have only tried this as a trial but even then it could be a bit hit and miss because of those I have seen they look about average. But it does cut the pond size significantly and I would expect you would have a higher rate of return on your messages if you put in the effort. The last option is sites such as POF which are free. To be honest, the females here really vary quite wildly but the good news is as its free you are likely to be swimming in a much larger pond with new fish almost daily. I think I will be giving that a try next….
This means that the typical guy approach which is to play the numbers game, approach as many women as possible
Yuck.
I disagree with you. I wouldn’t say that I’m a hottie but I’m not offensive looking either. I’m in the 100-150k range, so not a high earner. I have a really good profile and a dozen good quality pictures that tell a good story of who I am and a lot of women comment about the high quality of my profile. While I often don’t get responses from women I’d like to get responses from, I’ve gotten dozens of responses from women in the last 4 months and have met a lot of them. Quitting after 14 days is premature. What do you have to lose? You’re successful in your career. What does $50 mean to you? OLD expands the pool of people you are exposed to. I had 2 relationships from online dating. Maybe you should look at why you’re not getting responses rather than blame the medium.
Scott,
I’m curious. You recently mentioned you made a profile change, and had a lot of response in the first weekend. Is some of what you’re reporting now a part of the uptick since you did the new profile? How’s the quality level you’re getting responses from now; any better?
Hi Buck- I don’t think I said that I wrote a new profile. I went back online since my last relationship ended in late March. I’ve been tweaking my profile all along as I get new ideas from Evan’s emails and input from female friends and other places. I do get a lot of women commenting on the high quality of it and I think it does stand out from the usual drivel. It’s interesting that sometimes there’s a lull in responses and sometimes I get quite a few. One time I got something like 5-7 messages or winks in one day but that was very unusual. One time I met 3 women in 24 hours and that was too much and another within that week. Again, that’s unusual and I still sit here without a serious prospect. I think have some of my own shit to get together after having been tossed about on this rocky sea. I’m recognizing that I have blind spots and they’re really hard to see into, although I think I’m basically a good catch. I think the important thing about the profile is to make sure that you have lots of conversation hooks and enough information about you to make you interesting to the person you’d like to meet. I think mine describes me very well. And throw in the Gilligan’s Island references. They make people smile. I hope that answers your questions. Just remember, beyond the age of 40, there are lots of dented and bumped people out there.
Let me honestly give you the best advice I know.
If your photo aren’t done by a professional, such as lookbetteronline.com, get them redone. Looks matter. Have pictures of you – not your car, boat or vacation. Just you. Women are most attracted to FACES, not bodies. If she’s not attracted to your face, your body won’t matter. If she can’t see your face because it’s hidden behind glasses, a hat or taken from 6 feet away, you’ll get passed over because she not going to get a magnifier to find your face. Take the time to have professional skin care before your photos. Cameras see everything – unibrows, large pores and old acne scars.
Get your wardrobe evaluated by a professional. You can check out Models by Mark Manson for style tips, Dappered.com or GQ. You can go to Nordstrom and get help from a personal shopper for free also.
Write to women who are an actual match. If you are a smoker, drinker and want kids, write to women within 7 years of your age (+/-) who want those same things. Women don’t have time for such obvious dealbreakers. If you smoke, do write to women who are ok with smokers. Don’t bother with women who are not smokers and hope they will change who they are to go out with you.
If you pass those basic hurdles, then women will pay attention to your profile.
Scott,
Thanks. Looks like some of your “tweaks” are working well so far. I did a number of those when I was online. The last one I had, before I went on my current “vacation” drew a lot of interest, as in unsolicited incoming email traffic, but very little of the sort I wanted; pretty typical result for me. I think the best response rate I ever had to emails I sent was about 25-35% but that was a couple years back, before age filtered me out of too many searches. Still undecided about trying those waters again; just like you, I’m still trying to make sure I have my own self together. Cosign on that last line; it gets worse past 55 in my experience; everybody’s got some baggage by then; it’s just that so many can’t seem to shrink it down to carry-on size, instead of a couple of steamer trunks.
Buck I think the most important thing is to keep it in perspective and understand that failure is the default. If something positive does come of the effort, then it’s a bonus rather than an entitlement. It just exposes you to people you wouldn’t be exposed to otherwise. I used to have the entitlement attitude and that makes it more gut wrenching. It’s just a difficult endeavor but like M Scott Peck says in the introduction to Road Less Traveled, once you understand it’s difficult, it’s easier to bear, or something like that…..
Also, 25-35% response rate is crazy good. Did you post your income? If so, I bet that is why it was so high.
@Buck25
My own experience is that 55 is the demarcation line for men when it comes to age. The difference in interest between when I was 55 and now at age 56 is is remarkable. It is like the difference between 6’0″ and 5’11”. Believe it or not, one inch of height makes a difference in response rate. Yet, few women can tell the difference between a man who is a strong 5’11” (i.e. at least 5’11” even, not 5’10” and a fraction) and one who is 6’0″ on the money.
Scott,
No, I wasn’t posting my income at the time I was getting the best response rate. I did post it when I first started, but I’ve done it both with and without since-oddly enough, it doesn’t seem to make a significant difference (I know; surprised me too). The one that drew the most interest was just a little story about something that happened to me at a party (it was kinda funny).
Actually this article overlooks the huge difference between men and women in terms of email responses. Here’s a great article, and guys, be ready to do a lot of work for one reply. According the one recent study of online dating:
“Looking at higher confidence levels, if a woman wants to be 90% certain she’ll receive a response from a man her own age, she’ll have to send 13 messages. A man will have to send 58 messages.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/online-dating-message-statistics-2013-7
I’m done with online dating and guys, unless you’re over 6ft tall, funny, handsome, and rich, I would ask you to do the same.
The article misses the point entirely. Most women on-line are window shopping for a man who does not exist, Mr. Perfect (aka “Mr. Perfect for me” which is the same thing.) These females have been mislead by women-magazine and have profiles that read like a bad romance novel or a parole board hearing (all men are scum thus she’s looking for the least worst of all the scum.) She also wants him tall, rich, and a bodice ripping eunuch who knows when to crawl in the corner like the dog he really is. (She thinks six feet tall is fine but if he likes women who are weight appropriate he is discriminating against the big and beautiful. And if he dates a woman 15 years younger he’s a predatory crud but if she dates a man 15 years younger she’s a cougar, positive, and just fulfilling herself.) Conversely men see hundreds if not thousands of women on-line they would love to meet — the data base is that large — but the women never respond because they are looking for the Mr. Perfect. That is why dating on-line is mostly a failure: Women have a bad attitude and a double standard. If they’re alone they have only themselves to blame.
I didn’t find that I wanted to reach out to anyone and initiate something on Match.com. The photos are obviously a first impression and those were not good. Almost all photos are in the dark, with baseball caps on and their face cannot be seen, selfies, in the bathroom, in front of a mirror, taken with friends or family and you don’t know which one he is in the photo….. Then the one-liner for a first e-mail would be “Hi there.” Wow, another great first impression. Take my advice and shut down the computer. Get out in public and spend your time productively looking for the right guy!
First, I think that there really shouldn’t be much of a reason to be on Match if you are under 30. I mean, if you’ve never been married and you don’t have any kids and you are just starting out, most of the sortable criteria are irrevant since people in that age range are largely in the same boat and your range of options is much larger.
Now, if you are 39 and divorced with a kid or two, your criteria are probably much more specific. You are probably looking for someone who is 36-45 who is also divorced, who also has one or two kids. You are also probably looking for someone within 30-50 miles away since you don’t want to move yourself or your kid away. This is where M.com helps…you can narrow down your options significantly and then target your responses.
So
I understand that you should write a good email to get responses. At the same time though, unlike with Tinder/Bumble or dating apps where you match before messaging, I have no idea whether the woman would write back to me regardless of what I say. So why should I put a lot of thought/energy into emailing women who wouldn’t respond anyway because I didn’t meet physical standards, etc.? Just trying to hit the opposite viewpoint.
First of all, physical attraction is part of human nature. It doesn’t mean a person is shallow or rude just because they decide not to respond to a message after looking after a profile pic. It’s literally built into our genes to select for the strongest and most attractive partner possible. This is why the most attractive men and women are models and adorn our magazines and commercials. Even models we call “plus size” have symmetrical faces. (attractive facial features) If someone doesn’t respond to a message, it doesn’t mean they are purposefully being rude or mean, they just might not believe as strongly that you about compatible. Don’t take it personally.
Secondly, for pictures it is suggested that you have a close up (so prospective singles know what you look like) and a body picture (because guys and girls want to see the whole you). For myself I had many close up picture but no body length shots but once I added that the number of responses and view increased ~20%. I’m an average guy so I think it will help most people. For guys I found a collared shirt pic goes further then a shirtless one.
Lastly, as a guy it is a numbers game. Not to say go and “carpet bomb” the landscape but be assertive. Women are able to wall flower and receive messages (maybe many are crap I don’t know, you need to ask them) but unless your Brad Pit or Will Smith this isn’t really a valid option for most men. I personally look for the capability scores (most sites have them now) and will select only in the upper 80% and higher. These are usually built on an algorithm based on a questionnaire. Major points like height and interests sway the scoring more then things like exact income and education level. So they are pretty accurate in the ability to ball park your capability. The fine tuning is up to you. When reading a profile be aware of major conflicts that may not be picked up from the scoring system like strong religious beliefs, if they want kids, or politics to name a few. I found these are hot topics that people usually will not or can not find a compromise in, if you don’t agree with them maybe they are not the right one for you. Once you find someone that fits that list (and it again doesn’t have to be to a T) try to message them with something you read in their profile or saw on a picture. Like many people have already said, tailor make these messages if you want a response. If your funny, use humor, if your smart, use wit, if your confident, be blunt. Make it personal, you are talking to a human being not a object. Even with these tips it is never guaranteed that she will feel the same way and respond back. I personally have messaged around 30 women that I thought were great matches, 7 responded back positively, 2 responded with nothing more then a meh, and the rest were lost to the net. Note that I did this over a 2 week span so it averages to about 2 messages each day. I receive 0 first messages which only helps to reinforce the idea of wall flowering for men will not work. I don’t have all the answers but assertiveness and thoughtfulness goes along way.
For the women there is only 1 thing that I found really encouraging and that was hitting the like button. It shows that you are possibly interested and we should take a look. They are relatively rare for us guys, as in 1 a week if we are lucky, so when we see those we make sure to really look at that profile or just message to say hi right off the bat. It’s a good way to select some of the guys who will message you. I hope this helps my brothers and sisters in their searches.
You are GREAT!
I have been in Match.com for 2 months -nearly rating it the worst site ever but your ideas …. haha! Laughing at men’s pragmatic sense of humor 👔please please please consider going out with me”.
you should be writing scripts in Hollywood!!!!!!
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all best , Mariana
I tried Match.com about a month ago, but after a few initial introductory messages I got virtually no response. Most of the senders were old and gross. Kind of disappointing. But I guess desirable people don’t need dating sites. 🙁
Attractive people don’t need ‘em and unattractive people don’t have luck on them.
@NNTG
Attractive people don’t need ‘em
From my experience, that assertion is not true. It may be true for the topmost tier of extroverts because their extroverted nature affords them contact with a lot of people. However, I have met several hot introverted women on dating sites who went without dates before going online. We can look at success in dating as a combination of attractiveness combined with visibility. That is where online dating enters the picture. Online dating increases a single person’s visibility.
@Jon
A lot of men make the mistake of assuming that all profiles are active on Match. You need to pay attention to the profiles that contain a solid dot or a circle on the main profile photo. These women are active. If you are writing women who are active and they are not responding, there is a high probability that you are attempting to shoot above your pay grade in looks and/or status. It is not about to whom one is attracted on a dating site. It is about those to whom one is attractive on a dating site.
As far as to women who contact you, yes, my experience tells me that women tend to reach up in a big way when they contact a man. In my humble opinion, their upward reach dwarfs that of the average man on a dating site. That is because most women do not know where they fall within the female social hierarchy due to men dating down for easy sex (which happens a lot on dating sites). Men are more aware of where they fall within the male social hierarchy because they have to pursue.
“If you are writing women who are active and they are not responding, there is a high probability that you are attempting to shoot above your pay grade in looks and/or status.”
Unless you are going for only glamour girls, this is impossible to tell online if you are doing this, because women get so many messages and are incredibly picky about whom they will respond to. Most likely they are responding to men above them in the social hierarchy – men whom they normally wouldn’t be able to meet in real life (as you alluded to).
The studies show that 80% percent of the women are responding to 10-20% of the top males.
“It is not about to whom one is attracted on a dating site. It is about those to whom one is attractive on a dating site.”
Exactly, no better words spoken.
I wouldn’t listen to anyone online about this. The reality is, the better looking you are, and the better your pics are, the more responses you’ll get. If you are a hard body model with blue eyes and chiseled chin, you’ll get a 50% response rate. If you aren’t attractive, then you better learn how to send funny, witty, and charming messages. If you do this, you might get a 10% response rate.
I’ve had a match.com account for well over SEVEN years now, and never got a SINGLE message on it! Granted, I’m not a super active user, but I’ve kept it up to date, new/rotated the pics, changed locations as I’ve moved from Portland to Phoenix to Tampa/St. Pete. (i.e. all decent sized metros) tried various bios. Zero contacts. Match is a joke.
I know women message men a good bit less than vice-versa (I believe Dataclysm said 5:1 or 6:1 or something in that ballpark), but nothing? ;:-/ Zilch? In seven years? Really? Match is worthless.
I think I’m a pretty decent looking guy, 5′-10″ (since everyone thinks that’s so important), college educated, decent salary, flexible hours, granted not jacked, but in shape/trim, no kids or debt, love cooking, the beach, day trips, play guitar, live music, art events, etc… I don’t think I’m boring is what I mean. I’m not at all looking for flings or FWB or similar.
Something is wrong. Did you click the wrong gender in your profile? Is your profile hidden? A college educated man in three different cites who knows how to write should get winks and emails. Emails from real women with “attractive” profiles.
@Ryan
You answered your own question; namely, you are not a super active user. Match rewards men who are active by placing their profiles at the top of views and match lists. Visibility is everything on Match. Match is a numbers game. Men who receive and extend a lot of “likes” and messages tend to receive a lot of “likes” and messages. Any man who is not willing to read a ton of profiles and write a sizable number of women is not going to do well on a dating site.
Well, I was quite active in month-or-two long spurts (pretty much every day), PARTICULARLY when I moved to a new area to see if Match was any better or not from one metro to the next. Spoiler alert: It was dismal everywhere I went.
They don’t do a very good job enticing you to bother paying for their service. If there’s no interest whatsoever, why would anyone pony up the scratch over Ok Cupid, or any of the app based sites most people have gone onto anyway?!
Top, middle, bottom of the list, zero messages in seven years (really… think about that: seven years!) is insane. Hard pass.
I’ve always wondered how these dating sites make money, when the experience is bad for most people.
It’s like paying to be humiliated.
At least with Netflix you can something out of it.
No, my gender was correct, and my profile was not hidden. I had a few views (laughable for the amount of time I was on there, and the fact I’ve been in three different, sizable metros), but not a single message. Not a one.
Most guys I talk to who use match don’t get responses.
But if you are an select demographic: tall, white male, good looking
Then the women will view you as high value (SMV) and come knocking on your door.
I know because my friend is in that group.
It looks like this topic doesn’t have the sizzle anymore.
Everyone has realized the limitations of online dating and moved on.
Everyone except for 30 million people.
“This is like blaming the gym because you didn’t lose weight.” This seems like a statement by someone who doesn’t really understand his subject matter. Let me give you an example, since you mention gyms. Suppose there was a gym with a set of machines for women, and another set for men. Suppose there was always enough machines for the women, but not nearly enough for the men. Men frequently come to the gym and find they can’t get access to a machine. They would quit that gym soon enough. It WOULD be the gym’s fault.
It’s the imbalance between men and women that really kills these sites and makes them a waste of time.
I’ll take you up on this, David. How exactly is there an imbalance between men and women? If 50% of people on dating sites are men and 50% are women, it would seem like EVERYONE has equal access. What you’re lamenting is the meritocracy. Some men are taller, cuter, richer, funnier and THEY are the ones who get the attention of the women you crave. Which is exactly what it’s like for women who aren’t young, thin and hot. So remind me, how is this different for men and women? Seems to me you’re focused on how unfair it is to YOU because YOU don’t have the chops to get the attention of the women YOU find most attractive but don’t spend too much time thinking about how unfair it is for THEM to be passed by YOU.
I cannot stand seeing photos of men taking selfies in their bathrooms or gyms, not impressed. Just say you are fit and enjoy working out. Pouty lips on a man over 40 is NOT attractive. At least comb your hair and brush your teeth. Not had much luck but refuse to put out a photo. If someone whom I have a mutual interest in responds, I am more than happy to email or text a photo, just don’t want my face out there for all to see, especially those who I have absolutely no interest in communicating with. I figure if it is meant to be there will be chemistry. Things happen for a reason. Happy dating …