I’m a 40-Year Old Man Who Has Never Had A Girlfriend Or Sex.


First off, I’m glad to have found your site. Your advice is thoughtful and reasonable, unlike many others out there. Suffice to say, you’ve given me a lot to think about. So here’s my situation. This year, I will turn 40. Despite my attempts since I went to college, I am still a virgin. Yes, I’ve seen the movie, and I won’t lie: I’m afraid of becoming the archetype of that fictional character.

Over the years, I’ve learnt—albeit slowly, it seems—about many mistakes I’ve been doing. Not paying attention to women’s body language, not trying to go in for the first kiss, it’s a long laundry list of things I go “Crap, I should have done that!”.

But despite my efforts (and the assistance of friends over the years), I have never had a girlfriend or sex. As of recently, I try to find women between 25 and 42 years old. I’ve read a lot about what you’ve said about “Ineffective versus Effective” and “What I want in a woman versus what she wants about me”, and I guess I’m still a bit confused. I think that my situation (and that of other virgins in my predicament) is a little different in some ways, but also the same in others when it comes to relationships, sex, et cetera. I am an only child, and my parents are kind of old fashioned and raised me as such. I don’t usually try to go for/get a kiss on the first date, and I don’t try to force sex to happen right away.

Friends and coworkers alike have given me a huge span of advice and suggestions, from “sowing my oats” with a professional escort/hooking up with an “easy” college girl, to being persistent and trying to find that “special one”.

Eventually, I want to buy one or several of your products, but anything constructive you can offer me would be highly appreciated.


Dear Mo,

As a dating coach for women, I rarely run letters from men. But maybe I should do it a little more, considering that 54% of my readers (according to Google Analytics) are actually men. And if you’ve been reading for a while, Mo, you know that I do two things with each reader question:

  1. 10% of the time, I’ll provide validation that the reader is 100% correct in her assessment of things. That generally means saying something like, “He’s a jerk. Dump him. Move on.” The problem with these questions is that they’re boring. There’s only so many ways to say, “You’re right!” which make for a boring advice column. Which is why most of my advice veers towards…
  2. 90% of the time, I’ll let you know what you’re doing/thinking/believing that is not getting you results. Either that means shining the light into a blind spot and giving you an idea of what you can’t see, or it’s telling you how to conduct yourself differently to get different results.

In your situation, I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.

I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.

That makes giving unique advice a little bit tricky, you know?

Now, I’ve written about this stuff before.

I’ve talked about how passionate, competent guys get the girl.

I’ve talked about how nice guys (with balls) finish first.

I’ve talked about how women should value nice guys a little more.

But it doesn’t really matter what I say. Telling women to value nice guys more is like telling men to value older, heavier women more. People want what people want. At the end of the day, we all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.

You’ve had a lot of time to think about this, my friend. You’ve gone over the laundry list of things you could have done differently over the years. You may have valid excuses in how you were raised, but it really doesn’t matter if you were raised old-fashioned. You’ve been on your own for 20 years now.

So what constructive advice can I offer you? Should you lose your virginity with a pro just to get it over with? Should you hold out for someone special? I would suggest no to both options.

In fact, the biggest problem you have surrounding sex is that you’re making WAY too big a deal about it. Apart from the fact that sex can create babies, in 99% of cases, it’s just a fun thing that people do when they’re attracted to each other. By not carrying yourself with confidence, not asking out more women, not making the first move, not pushing to go further, and not seeing yourself as a sexual being, you’ve projected yourself to women as safe and asexual as well. It’s time to reboot and start from scratch.

We all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.

You don’t need to have sex tomorrow.
You don’t need to have sex with someone you love.
You need to make up for lost time and catch up with what everyone else was doing from 14-21.

I rarely plug my own products on here, but you should begin with Finding the One Online, my online dating audio series. It’s much easier and more accessible (for nice guys) than going to pubs to hit on hot 27-year-olds. Despite the sales page being written for women, Finding the One Online is actually a unisex product, created in 2008 for both men AND women. It’s helped thousands of people choose a dating site, write better profiles, post better photos, understand the opposite sex, and learn to move from email to the phone to the real life date.

Instead of skipping steps and worrying about getting naked with someone, you just need the experience of being around women, learning to act on your attraction, and demystifying this sex thing that you’ve built up in your mind. One step at a time. Go on a bunch of dates. Build up your dating skills. Get more confidence. And when it’s time for you to have sex, you’ll be as ready as any man ever was.

Click here to learn more about Finding the One Online and how it can attract more, high quality prospects on your dating site than you ever imagined possible.

Join our conversation (223 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.


  1. 21

    I guess there’s exceptions to every rule snd different circumstances but I’ve allways felt we go after and obtain what we desire a great deal. In other words I’ve allways felt passionate sexual people within reason will find a way to have sex. Im sorta surprised that people would expect sex to be bad. That would be the last thing I would expect if I was attracted and felt mutual chemistry. Since I went through puberty I’ve allways had guys interested so maybe that colors my views. I guess Ive allways thought that unless someone is hideous if after a certain amount of time with no sex or relationships there is an issue of low sexual desire to none or major social dysfunction. I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with a forty something virgin and would run away fast and I consider myself a very compassionate person. I saw an online dating show with a 37 year old virgin and very attractive. I kept thinking he must be hiding some kind of secret disability. He had an attitude like he needed to date ten thousand women to find the one. I find that strange like why couldnt he think the first or second cute lady he’s interested In be the one. I had the feeling he will never find what he’s looking for and he allready knows it.

    1. 21.1

      You said: “I guess Ive always thought that unless someone is hideous if after a certain amount of time with no sex or relationships there is an issue of low sexual desire to none or major social dysfunction. I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with a forty something virgin and would run away fast and I consider myself a very compassionate person.”

      Yes J. Totally understand you make complete sense, looking at things from a female perspective. Nearly all women feel the same way. Some of these men, like all men, who find themselves in this position are heart-breakers and overly picky. Some are bitter. But on the other hand, there is a percentage of all men, virgin and non-virgin that fall into the above categories so we can’t over generalize.

      I can tell you this, while I was never a 40 year old virgin, I did lose my virginity later than those in my peer group. There was NOTHING wrong with me besides the fact that I didn’t know how to attract women and was extremely shy. I was also religious and for a long time I believed I should save myself for a serious relationship, not necessary marriage, but not a casual fling. I was never hateful, mean, or a heart-breaker in fact I was the stereotypical “nice guy” who wanted to respect women and treat them like gold. I really wanted sex to mean something. That was who I used to be. I remember there was a girl who was super into me, but I wasn’t attracted to her at all besides as a friend. I could have slept with her and lost it, but I remember thinking to myself. This girl is in love with me. I wouldn’t want someone to use me for my money, so I am not going to lead her on and use her for sex.

      The basic problem with us men, is we are taught by our friends, family and Hollywood, the exact wrong way to attract and keep a woman. I mean, the totally wrong way to go about this. Not SLIGHTLY wrong. COMPLETELY and UTTERLY wrong. In fact, if you follow this advice, a woman will run away as quickly as she can. Imagine if you, as a woman, were taught over and over again, by your male friends, by your male relatives, by Hollywood, newspapers, magazines and Internet advice columns. Everyone around you drills over and over again into your mind that the best way to attract men is to be fat, smelly and bitchy. Imagine that. You are indoctrinated in this from the time you are a little girl through your entire life. You keep on following this advice and when you run into trouble, you are told, you are “not fat enough” and need to gain more weight. So you do and continue to run into issues. Eventually you would feel upset and betrayed when you realize this is a lie. That is the state of mind that some guys get into. However they need to get over this anger and start studying how to be effective, which is basically the opposite of what women, society and the media say.

    2. 21.2

      men with little or no experience at an advanced age know that you most likely will run a way really fast.

      Obviously, a man who’s in his mid 30s and still is a virgin is abnormal in some way. But how abnormal ?
      I’m not an actual virgin but I’m close. I am abnormal in some ways and yet just how bad can it be ? I’m lucky to have just met someone who is into me enough to try to go beyond the lack of experience.

      One of the “bad” things about me is that I don’t really get body language and subtle clues. So I let her know that she shouldn’t be too subtle. She’s probably not used to that but it looks like she got it and she makes things more explicit for me. It’s unusual to have to do that but is it that bad ?

      Like pretty much all men in my situation, I’m just plain shy when it comes to intimacy and i’m conscious of my inexperience and it makes things worse. I kept asking for permission to touch her or to kiss her. Instead of freaking out, she explained to me that she wanted me to learn how to *know* when it’s ok to touch her or kiss her. So I’m learning. Hopefully I’ll learn well and she will reap the benefits.


  2. 22

    43 similar situation.   At this point it’s more likely I’ll get struck by lightning than ever have a girlfriend.

    My age range is large in both directions and have tried women of all shapes and sizes.   Doesn’t matter, I don’t light the spark.

    The fact of the matter is many women will question a man if he’s 40 and never married.   Add to that never having a relationship and almost every woman will run for the hills.  

    1. 22.1

      In my experience the guys that never have relationships are delusional ultra picky pain in the asses heartbreakers. I know that sounds harsh but thats what I have experienced. The one I was involved with his best friend who was my friend also I questioned after the fact why didnt he protect me from that? His response was hey hes never had a relationship you should have protected yourself! Never again snd thank god I’m married now and i would never date again if ever single again in this life time. When I see match.com commercials on tv my husband and I both laugh like who needs that shit! Going out of your way grinding your ass off to impress some total stranger what a pain no thank you.

      1. 22.1.1

        As I said, it’s hopeless. why even bother?

    2. 22.2

      I am not 43, but I used to be an older virgin with no relationship skills compared to my peer group so I understand where you are coming from.

      I could sugar coat this but I feel it is important that you know the truth. Pretty much EVERY woman, pretty, ugly, somewhere in between, consider male virgins and guys who have never had relationships, deeply disgusting and repulsive. Unbelievably super unattractive. You know when you go to the beach and you see the fat girl who wears at least 400 pounds wearing spandex with her butt hanging out. You know how you get disgusted by this? Women feel this way about male virgins. They often lie about this fact. But what I am saying is ABSOLUTELY true. Please don’t argue with me, just realize that this is the case. Now I am not telling you this to depress you, I’m sure you are a good person. I am not saying things SHOULD be this way. I am telling you that this is the way things ARE. For women, it is just totally inconceivable that a man would have a problem with this area. Talking to them and making them try to understand this, is a complete waste of time. It is like arguing with a Jehovas Witness. You are never going to get them over to your point of view and it is a complete waste of time.

      So if you really want to resolve this you need to LIE, LIE and LIE some more. I would invent long term relationships, breakups, etc. Make sure you tell the same lies to each girl, so you don’t get yourself mixed up. Forget EVER being honest with women about this — they will leave immediately if you are. Women here might deny this, but they know deep down inside they would leave if they found out. Once you have some recent experience, you can tell women about that if asked. But if you are asked about your earlier life, again LIE.

      1. 22.2.1
        Single for now

        omg.   What planet are you from. Your comment is simply not true Adam. I know that for a fact. I find your answer and attitude absolutely repulsive, I do not however find the sexually inexperienced men deeply disgusting or repulsive. I actually find it rather attractive and would have no problem personally getting to know these guys. You on the other hand with your belief of lie, lie, lie really turns me off. There is nothing more refreshing and promising than meeting a guy who is not only a truth talker but who also has morals for himself, women and the time he is spending with another person. It’s sad that you feel like your advice could be helpful.   We all experience things in different ways and at different stages of our lives. I honestly find the men who are on here saying that they are close to my age and still virgins to be more appealing in every way than I do the man who says lie to women to make them think you are someone or something that you are not.

        Please do not take the advice of becoming a liar. There is nothing more unfair to another person than giving them false information to work with, how will they get to know and understand you better? With lies or the real person you are? Not only is it rude to lie but it will hurt both you and the person you lie to. Be you. There is nothing more sexy than someone just being comfortable with themselves.

      2. 22.2.2

        The problem is 40 year old virgin guys are usually terrible liars.

    3. 22.3
      Just my opinion


      Please don’t think that no woman would want a man who is 43 with no relationship history.   I have knowledge of someone in the same situation. I don’t know him well but he seems like he would be a wonderful potential partner or husband to someone. He is kind and considerate of others polite and very intelligent treats his mother very well.   I would gladly date him if I had the chance. (Its not an option right now but if the situation ever arose I would certainly jump on the opportunity to have a man who was not a self absorbed narcissistic asshat who had no ability to accept or reciprocate intimacy and would rather beat off to porn than have his woman get him off any time she had the chance.)   I will be 35 and have been married once and in a 10 yr relationship have a history of abuse both in childhood and in both of my intimate relationships it has taken DECADES of therapy to realize that the ones who come on strong and have a lot of experience are the ones to stay away from.   Those are the ones who prey on women who are honest, nieve, trusting, and just want to love and be loved by one person for the rest of their life. (So speaking from the average perception of men I am “damaged goods” or “have issues” “too old” ect. Even though I have a great capacity to try to please my partner in everyway possible) The same goes vice versa so be glad you have no experience instead of being taken for granted , abused, cheated on ect. Like many good men have who end up hating women as a result of the heartless asshat females. Frankly I would find it to be a positive asset not a negative trait.   I think that if you get to know a woman who is more mature you may be surprised. I know everyone is afraid of the freindzone but a good woman is not going to let something so petty bother her and if she’s not a good woman your better off alone than with someone who will trample your emotions and treat you like trash.

  3. 23

    Im afraid I am one of those people who is skeptical of the never had a relationship guy after dealing with two of them. Never again. They get alot of undeserving sympathy in my experience as their cruelty know no bounds. Alot of well meaning friends and family worry and try to set them up. Forget it dont put a woman through that its nt fair to do that. They’re delusional ultra picky personality disordered lots of childhood issues. Never again would I ever go there again and after that experience I thank god I’m married now and off the marker. In fact when match.com commercials come on the tv now my husband and I both laugh and say we wouldn’t want to have to do hand stands to impress a complete stranger. No thanks. I wouldnt want to ever have to date again in this lifetime. Theres a reason why some people haven’t had a relationship its usually because they dont deserve one and are horrid!!!!!

    1. 23.1

      In my view, it’s you who is being callous and horrid. You are judging millions of men based on one, apparently traumatic, experience.

    2. 23.2
      Kevin S

      the truth

    3. 23.3

      You are 99% of women agree there.

  4. 24

    36, male, same situation. I have only ever had one date in my life, when I was 24. She was a co-worker and it took me about a year to gather the courage to ask her out. After one drink the date was over because I just didn’t know what to say. Then when I was 26 I had my first and to date only kiss. Both the girl and I were extremely drunk at that point and I don’t remember much of it. My college days are long over now; my mother semi-permanently lives with me because of her bad health. When she dies, there will be nothing left to keep me on this earth.

    1. 24.1

      Anyway i hope Robert you have forgiven me. I still feel terrible abour your reaction and wish you well. You have way more power than you know just need to use it. Be strong and be well.

    2. 24.2

      And also Robert your mom is so lucky to have a son like you  

    3. 24.3

      You should get out of your comfort zone Robert! If you’re waiting a year to ask a girl out, that builds up all kinds of fantasies and expectations that are impossible for a lady to live up to. That sucks about your mother and you’re a kind person to look after her, but take time to make your life more awesome by doing something risky – go on a blind date, ask out a stranger when you’re buying groceries, get online. It won’t happen if you don’t put yourself in situations where it COULD happen! If you don’t know what to say, ask questions! If you want to make out, ask politely! I’ve kissed boys just because they asked nicely (and weren’t drunk idiots) – it works! Most things will fail, but every time you try something that makes you feel uncomfortable, the next uncomfortable thing will feel easier until it doesn’t feel uncomfortable anymore, just exciting. If you feel like this is impossible, it could be a great idea to take some time each week to see a professional counsellor or psychologist who could build up your self esteem and help you to push through whatever boundaries are keeping you from happiness. If you challenge yourself, eventually you’ll realise those boundaries are in your head – they don’t exist, and you can say FUCK YOU BOUNDARIES and walk right through them!

    4. 24.4

      There’s always something to live for. It’s scary to take risks, believe me I know. But that’s how you find what you want. Women will reject you — even so called hot confident men get rejected at times — but it’s their loss. Just keep moving forward. There are far too many women on this planet to believe there isn’t one you can be happy with!  

    5. 24.5
      Single for now

      Oh Robert,   you sound like you have plenty of reasons to stay on this earth after your mother passes away.   As a person who is obviously such a giving caring person you will have many easy ways to connect with others as friends or potential partners.   I can’t say I know too many men who would allow their mother to move in with them because of poor health. What a totally unselfish thing to do. Maybe your circumstances are not helping your social or love life right now but just from your description of being there to assist a loved one in times of need you must know that there are many good women who find that sort of trait and nature to be exactly what they want in their lives. You need to ease up a little on yourself.

  5. 25

    You’re right I did sound callous. I forget that there are some kind shy guys. Theres women like that too. I knew a woman mid forties that never dated because no one gave her any attention because she didn’t attract male attention. But she was obviously a neighbor certain woman just not considered hot so she wasn’t exploited which I envied but I’m sure she was lonely. Anyway I’m not aa horrid as I sound   really I’m probably too kind and trusting and that was my problem back then when single. I apologize to anyone I have offended. Life can be veey unfair to some peopke who are good and I hate that. Those arent the kind of folks I waa talking about. Sorry again.

    1. 25.1

      Women don’t like shy men.

  6. 26
    Ronald Messier

    I agree w/cj. I am painfully shy and socially anxious. I also fear rejection. I am 62 and have only had sex once. I was at my father’s in Ft Lauderdale,FL. A friend said no man my age should be a virgin. He took me to a prostitute. Whenever I am around a woman I become tongue-tied. I am confined to a wheelchair after an unfortunate accident in early 2005. I want to use this line. “Would a pretty lady like you like to go w/me for a spin?”. A dating coach near me said it has a lot of risk and has a lot of reward.

  7. 27
    stevo reid

    hey my friend i am 40 too and have had the same problem.and i expect your probably a nicer than average person.women arent really stimulated by the goodness or decensy of a mans heart,only the bullshit false sweetalk matters.so rather than listening to people tell you the scripted shopping list of what to say and do tp appease a woman.just relax in the fact that your not pulling because your too genuine.the right woman will see that in you hopefully i will find mine too  

    1. 27.1

      You’re so wrong – I love decent men, especially awkward nice guys. Maybe you’ve had experiences of being attracted to superficial women who are like that, but not all women are. If you think that “all women aren’t attracted to a kind heart and only care about a guy who can whisper the right words while paying for dinner”, you’re probably not allowing yourself to see or attract kind women, who may look or act differently to the others.

      1. 27.1.1
        steven reid

        i know your right.but the percentage is very small.especially in this day and age were we are perpetually bombarded by the media on fashion how to fit or youll b ostricisised.we are all programmed on courtship and sexual culture.in my experience in glasgow nice doesnt work too well. confident and dominant are pre requisites.thanx for comment.

  8. 28

    Before I start if you see an X it = wrong/shouldn’t have done it!
    Oh man, my heart actually aches when I read your predicament Mo. I am 36 go to college and in the same boat (a virgin). Trouble is I bet you I’ll reach 41   before you do 🙂 Time just flies so fast. Anyway whatever you do and trust me on this one. DON’T TRUST WOMEN! I made that mistake by talking to a girl who gave me a boost of confidence said I looked like an comedian she likes. (First) X! Then we hang out together at the pub till like everyone else goes home then we say goodbye she calls and texts me wonder’s where I am, so cute so sweet (second) X! My fault I shouldn’t have called her back! and then finally the nail in the coffin! She knew I liked her, I told her I liked her! X She said I’m not at the stage of looking for a romantic relationship, I’m sure any girl would be happy to have you as a boyfriend X How many times have I heard that?!? I got angry said you should have told me that from the get go, she said she did! Not to my face she didn’t! So I thought fuck this! I don’t need a friend, I have heaps of those men AND women, so I said goodbye to her forever!
    I was nothing but nice and kind to her! Never make that mistake again!
    I thought women like nice guys! Boy was I wrong! I was talking to this hooker once at the pub and she got upset when I told her nice guys finish last! She got upset!!! I’m a nice guy, I always finish last!
    If a girl looks my way or even smiles, gonna completely ignore them!
    If I see her around college, which I doubt, or at the pub, I’m going to totally ignore not even acknowledge her!
    I’m sick of being rejected!
    Now I can’t stop thinking about her! That’s the only thing! I hate her so much! I hate myself even more for even thinking I had a chance!
    I don’t want to be single! I don’t want to have to pay for it either!
    I can’t deal with the heartache anymore! I’m sick of it!
    All women are crazy, cold and heartless, yet it’s my fault!
    I’ll end up being a 90 year old virgin and single! I was gonna say something else… But I’m seething, I’m so angry! I can’t take it anymore!
    I’d rather be single forever than have my heart broken again and again and again and again and again…
    All I can say is good luck Mo and break their hearts if they have any in the first place! 🙂
    Good luck! 🙂

    1. 28.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I let this sad letter through because it’s illuminating about how men also struggle with women. With his attitude (sadness, entitlement, negativity, anger), Silk is never going to do well, but I think it’s a window into a world we don’t see on this blog too often – the nice guy who thinks women are bitches for rejecting him. Silk, please don’t become another Eliot Rodger, okay? And go pick up a copy of Robert Glover’s “No More Mr. Nice Guy” while you’re at it.

      1. 28.1.1

        I’ll say it again: unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the one you are mad at to die.

      2. 28.1.2

        @EMK re 28.   It is a sad letter but I’m not sure that Silk is actually a “nice” guy.   Too often in my 20s, I was the girl mentioned in the letter: genuinely friendly, enjoying the company of men and women and being my bubbly self.   Little did I realise that I was not supposed to enjoy and affirm any man unless I wanted to date him – that to do so would be considered “rejection” – that if I was not offering a romantic relationship that all overtures at friendship would be deemed insulting.  

        1. Silk

          Okay, what do girls want in a man!?! What?!? Tell me, please. Good looks? Money? What!?! She laughed at all my jokes, she must have thought I was interesting otherwise she wouldn’t have hung around with me. She didn’t like my friends, so I sat with her instead of my friends. I was generous. She bought drinks, I bought drinks. I was always confident around her… What do you women want!?! What!?! Tell me. Please! Yeah, now I’m not nice, why should I be nice now after doing those things with every girl I’ve ever had a crush on and then being rejected. Oh don’t worry, you’ll probably say I’m just a creep that deserves to be miserable and alone. Fine! I’ll do that! I won’t approach any woman I like and that I have a crush ever! I’ll die, unloved alone and single! Happy? I’ll talk to my friends that ARE girls but the second, I have feelings for that special someone, I’ll just forget it and move on! And die alone! Thanks Henriette! Thanks. 🙂

        2. jeremy

          Forgive me if this is repetition – I’ve written this on one of Evan’s other postings, but it bears repeating.   Men and women (generally) have different concepts of friendship.   For many men, a friend is someone to do things with, rather than to be emotionally intimate with.   For that type of man, a woman who is bubbly and friendly and emotionally open with him is something entirely un-like his friendships with other men, and is often seen as a burgeoning relationship – especially if that man has not had many romantic relationships himself.   

          This is the quandary of the “nice guy”.   “Niceness” is a quality that men find sexually attractive in women, but is only a quality that women find “human” in men.   Men are expected to be nice in the same way they are expected to have a nose on their face.   Many men see women with “jerks” and believe that women don’t value niceness, and that is only partly true.   Women DO value niceness….but niceness is not a sexual attractant for them.   Thus, if a man is confident, passionate, good looking, etc., then “niceness” is the icing on the cake, and “jerkiness” is a pebble in it (though will get worse as time goes on).

          This isn’t to say that women should not pursue friendships with men, but rather advice that if a man appears to be overly committed – constantly following you around, offering help, etc – then realize he is an orbiter and not a friend, and do him a favor and cut him loose.

          And Silk, I feel for you man, but your attitude is not helping you.   Forget whether your feelings are justified or not.   Forget how right you are and how wrong you think others have been.   Read the book Evan recommended (it will help you).   And after that, try to approach new situations from a fresh perspective – not all women will be like the one(s) you had bad experiences with, and in fact if you have 99 bad experiences and only 1 good one, that 1 good one may be all you need.  

        3. Henriette

          @jeremy – a sincere thank you.   I do understand this, now I’m in my 40s.   In my 20s, I understood in theory but was unskilled at recognising the signs and truly thought it presumptuous to imagine that a guy who was nice to me must be “interested” so no doubt misinterpreted many signals through the years.  
          I simply take issue with the anger that I see so often directed (on the internet, especially by Red Pill types) at young women who may or may not have a sense of how to manage the friendship vs. romantic interest issue.   All too often, it’s explained by the MRA community as these girls purposely toying with nice guys and then having unrestricted sex with jerks and players.     The result is many fellows who’ve had their feelings hurt by rejection turn that sadness to resentment and rage.      
          I am trying to present the other side to readers like Silk; there are lovely young women “out there” who are doing their imperfect best to graciously navigate the treacherous dating waters.     Yes, there are heaps of user girls (and guys!) who purposely string along interested parties.     But there are also plenty of girls who are like I used to be: simply doing the best they can to interpret ~ not always correctly ~ what they think is happening.  
          I received a fair share of attention in my younger years but never dated a jock or a rich guy or a player; the only men I’ve ever slept with were long-term boyfriends; two of these long-term boyfriends were what some have rudely referred to as “geeks,” “nerds” or “dorks.”     I also have lovely girlfriends who were ignored and passed over time and again by these “nice guys” in favour of flirty teases so presumably rejection of kind, sweet, unassuming people goes both ways.     Instead of becoming embittered by the dating process, it would great if the nice people could just strengthen their resolve to find each other amid the sea of less-than-nice candidates.

        4. mary

          Silk, different girls want different things in a man. Some girls want Alphas, some want Betas (give me an awkward Beta!), some want good looks, money, houses, humour – all of the above. Girls all have different personalities, desires and attitudes. Thinking that all girls are the same – bitches – and holding onto that hate will not only drive nice girls away (if that’s what you’re looking for), but will make you feel awful and wanting to die alone. Maybe you should talk to someone, find a happy place, and work on dating women who you may not at first have a huge crush on, but women with whom you feel mutual respect, compatability and think are alright looking. If you limit or have limited yourself to girls who you have crushes on or think might be “that special someone”, it’s clear that this strategy isn’t working – so try a new one! But see a professional about your past hurts first, or you’re at risk of fulfilling your own prophecy and being single forever.

          And I would like to REFUTE the “girls don’t like nice guys” line, maybe it’s an American thing but there are lots of girls who would love a nice man – maybe the nice guys are going for the wrong girls, or just not asking (nicely) for what they want.

        5. sha

          hi henriette,

          i’m in the same boat now, being 20 and having all these guys being “nice” to me. fortunately i’ve realised what their “niceness” all too often actually means, so i’m focusing on real things in life. thanks for the reminder again!


        1. jeremy

          Mickey, yeah, that article was full of a mixture of truth and nonsense, of expectations and entitlements.   Forget that article and distill it down to this: Be honest in your intentions.   Forget the word “nice” – it is misleading.   Be HONEST.   If you like a girl, ask her out, rather than trying to be her “friend” and slipping past her defenses.   If she rejects you, move on.   If she accepts you, go for it.   But don’t hide your intentions under a mask of false pretenses.  
          There is a world of difference between these 2 situations of “niceness”:
          1) a man who asks a woman out on a legitimate date, she gets drunk, and he drives her home and sees her safely off.   This man is honest (wants a relationship with her and lets her know it), but is also legitimately “nice”.
          2) a man fears rejection so offers friendship to a girl instead of asking her out on a date.   They go drinking together, and he hopes that she will get drunk enough to sleep with him.   Such a man is false – his niceness is manipulative.
          Niceness is not an attractant to women.   Women want men whom they find attractive in other ways, and once they have those men, they hope those men will be nice.   Understand that, and focus your efforts to impress women in other directions.

    2. 28.2

      Silk, you’re right because I’ve been rejected since high school in favor of thugs, playboys, and stuff like that. I’m a nice guy and got an MBA degree. I’ve been very helpful even financially. Unfortunately, after being divorced for 16 years (I’m 50 now) and being ignored and used by women because I had money I’ve come to conclude that women should never be trusted. In fact my former girlfriend used my new car to pick up what is now her husband. I’ve quit women and am looking at going MGTOW, being gay or being a Catholic priest. At least I can focus on doing what I want to do anyway

  9. 29

    Don’t know why i’m telling you this, but just to clarify I didn’t ask her out the first night. I should have said to cut a long story short. This happened over the course of 2 months. Final day of the second month is when I asked her out! P.S. I won’t become another Eliot Rodger because I’m not going to talk to girls ever again! For fear of rejection over along period of time of liking someone then having my heart broken yet again. I’m going to avoid them all together if I see someone I like, avoid them. I’m still going to talk to my friends that ARE girls, but as for that special one! Forget! I’ll be single and lonely forever! So don’t worry I’m NEVER going to be a Eliot Rodger, that’s for sure! I want to be famous for something good not evil! P.P.S I don’t think I’m entitled and I never call women the b word! Ever! Just cold, cruel and heartless!
    And FYI she wanted to see my… You know, but I didn’t show her… That’s was also a big
    confidence booster too because no girl has ever said that to me… Ever!
    But whatever… Don’t worry about me, I’m perfectly happy to remain single and unloved and lonely from that one special person of the opposite sex, forever!
    Thanks for the advice, though. Even though it was a suggestion to read a book! (ergh!) 🙂

    1. 29.1

      I think maybe u could just put yourself in situations where u meet more women, and don’t hope too much (cos clearly u find it hard when u get your hopes up and it doesn’t work out). At least u have lots of friends so it’s not like u don’t get enough social interaction. I think u’d find online dating disappointing, and u don’t seem to handle disappointment well; it’s a pity because lots of pple met their future spouse on OL dating, but after meeting many pple it didn’t work with–including our own Evan I think, and Julia a commenter met tens of pple before meeting her future fiance. But it takes a certain upbeat perseverence which I think u may not have.

      Just yesterday night I met a Swiss guy on a first date–40, over 6 feet tall, attractive, successful, nice personality. And he’s single, and he says he’s not contentedly-single either, just hasn’t managed to click with the right person yet. He doesn’t take it personally (his singledom), just goes out and tries to make more friends, stays confident, and hopes to meet the ‘right’ woman. That’s a healthy attitude to take.

      1. 29.1.1

        Having an upbeat perseverance is all well and good, I guess. But when it gets ripped out of you, as it’s obviously happened here, how do you get it back…if you can get it back?

    2. 29.2

      How old are you? Your writing would indicate you are quite young.

      1. 29.2.1

        I’m 50.

    3. 29.3

      Fear is a huge motivator – don’t let fear of rejection keep you from getting what you want.

    4. 29.4

      At least Elliot Rodger deserved respect because he has been rejected by women since high school, even though he had everything

      1. 29.4.1

        A murderer deserves respect? Seriously are you trolling?

        1. Abe

          No I am not trolling. I meant that women rejected him because they would rather date someone who would be good looking. I can relate because I’ve been rejected since high school in favor of boys who were in the varsity basketball team and since church and college in favor of those who go to the clubs and be involved   in the streets. How would you feel if you were rejected in favor of thuggish looking folks? I felt totally bad. I’ve even been used too much. I’ve been called lots of names like fag, boring, and such. It’s not that I approve what he did but at least he was able to do that was understandable

  10. 30

    Look… All I want as corny as it sounds is someone to love and someone to love me for who I am and visa versa. Is that really so much to ask for? I don’t want to be alone… And quite frankly I don’t give a [email protected]# about what anyone writes or thinks, I just want to be happy with someone, and make someone happy. Is that too much to ask?!? But you know… whatever… You people have made up your mind that I’m a creep and that I’ve got a “bad” attitude… So you know what… F$%^ it! You’re on the internet. Your and my opinion does not count! So… I’ll leave you with this one “nice” simple suggestion…? Love… Just love. 🙂

  11. 31

    P.S. Everyone wants me to be alone forever anyway… so I might as well be and just LOVE everyone like they were my brothers and sisters as in, not just love ONE person but LOVE EVERYBODY!!! 🙂

    1. 31.1
      steven reid

      right on sir nothing wrong with being alone.so many people al over the world are so alone.some much worse than ourselves. but we have one thing in common …we are not. we all have each other.

  12. 32

    To the 40yr old virgin…
    Sadly , i think your insecurity over still being a virgin at 40 is making it so hard to get up the courage and let a women know that before you have sex with them that you just can’t get up the nerve too… & i sincerely feel the best chance you have to break this mental barrier is to buy some condoms find a mature prostitute
    Possibly the famous one in nevada outside vegas
    Pony up the big bucks they charge explain to her once your alone that your a vigin and your terrified to be a failure… She will be so flattered that you chose her to be your first that she’ll leave her usual whore act on the shelf and truly want to help you and be so wonderful to you and really make you comfortable and get you the realtime experience of intercosrse you have to get before your ever going to be comfortable with a girl who means something to you …. This less connected ananimity is what you need before you’ll ever have the nerve to be naked in a bed with a women ….. I know because that was the only way i finally had the nerve to break myself in….. My fear was experiencing my first time with a girl in my circle who if i was a dissapointment would let everyone in my circle know what a failure i was
    I think you suffer the same extreme performance anxiety i did the only difference was i had the fortunate blessing of working with a girl who was a total nymph and slept with every guy at work except me and her wisdom gained from so many encounters with men was that i must be scared to take the blatant fuck me hints she was constantly throwing out the because i was scared to be compared to everyone else she was with and everyone i knew finding out…. This lovely slut figured out that the only way she was gonna get me in the sac was to totally persue me and get me somewhere i was positive no one i knew was around and then seduce me with kindness and explain that she already new i was a virgin and to just relax and let her help me get over this fear and she promised no one would ever know…. WoW looking back if she didnt do that i woulda been 40 just like you so just get with someone you can be totally anonymous with and after a few times your confidence to have sex with a women in your circle that you have feelings for will gradually increase your case is so extreme it requires an extreme effort

  13. 33

    Many of   these comments, even from Silk, discuss romance as a binary thing, as rejection or sex. The reality is that there’s a lot in-between, and it’s the in-between stuff that leads to the sex:   Eye contact, holding hands, a few seconds of arm in arm or arm on shoulder,   sitting next to each other and talking for an hour or two. She (in almost all cases) won’t be turned on cuddling naked without LOTS of cuddling clothed, and before than, lots of walking while holding hands. Also, when she likes you, that first rejection can be a test form her side to assure herself you really like her enough to wait.   Ultimately, the best love and sex comes down to how she feels in your company, not any particular attributes you have or don’t have.

  14. 34

    Shy of selling my soul, I would kill to be in your position I seen the 40 year old Virgin, and lamented that film didn’t come out in 1985
    Count your blessings and your Virginity Sex is crap living with another human being that tears your life apart is crap. Trust me make love to investments instead, retire early and enjoy your life, bringing a woman or man if your gay is the most stupid and destructive thing you could do, and avoid casual sex with American women, God only knows what STD’s you might run into..Cheers!!

  15. 35

    Too many of you are super picky. Aim for women way out of your league or even reject women that are into you because she lives in another city, doesn’t like star wars or star trek, has dated an alpha male or a few etc.

    1. 35.1

      men who have little options in the dating arena are usually not the ones being picky. so I don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

  16. 36

    in animal kingdom, men are agressive and want sex quickly. When Intelligence develops, men and women cannnot live together. Its a sad part of nature I hate. Id fuck every girl at my work, every girl I cross almost. but for them, Its another story.

  17. 37

    Yeah getting a girlfriend is definitely hard I am 29 and never had a girlfriend in my life. Most of the pretty women are either all taken or they are not interested but I hope and pray someday I will get a girlfriend.

    1. 37.1

      How about a woman who is  just average looking but has many other wonderful qualities that would make you happy?  Oh Right …. Not good enough for you.

      i have little sympathy for guys like you.  


      1. 37.1.1

        I would go out with an average woman but even they are hard to come by and yes I am trying to go places where I am going to meet women.

      2. 37.1.2

        you don’t even know the type of women this dude goes for, so you are automatically assuming that this guy goes for women out of his league. men who have trouble attracting females are usually not the ones being picky here bro.

        1. Karl R


          Try reading what people say.   Mark had complained that “Most of the pretty women are either all taken or they are not interested”, so I would say Mark had explicitly stated what type of women he went for.

          Sure didn’t claim that Mark  was too picky or that he was aiming out of his league.   She was simply expressing a lack of sympathy for someone who had specifically expressed difficulty  in dating  “pretty women”.

  18. 38

    I am a man approaching 40 and a virgin. If someone gets to this age and they still haven’t done the deed, there is something not right about them. People might pass it off as shy and stuff but the fact is underneath it all there are issues.

    Personally I was abused as a kid and its had a marked effect in many areas of life.   For like 20 years I have been working on myself to resolve issues and in all honesty it really does suck. Not just effecting sexual relationships but whole load of other stuff in life as well. But such is life and you just have to get on with it.

    Really if you over 30 and never had sexual relations really you should go seek some professional help, this sort of stuff really just doesn’t happen by accident. Chances are something like the environment your childhood envitonment has contributed towards it.  


  19. 39

    I just turned 40 years old a few month ago and also never had a girlfriend. I only had a three dates in my life. The last date was in January 2005. Honestly I do not think those three dates can even be counted as such. By now I have accepted my fate and basically just moved on. I can not start conversation with women about my age that I find attractive and internet services produced nothing. Over the past 10 years I have tried numerous dating websites that produced no results. I post the profile and if contact someone there is no reply and if I wait for female to contact me my social security will expire. So nothing at all. So I just ran out of any other ideas and just moved along in my life. The goal in life now is to enjoy the things that I have and just accept that personal life is something foreign and non-existent.

    1. 39.1

      Same here.   I’ve lived most of my life by myself…cold siblings, controlling parents..no true friends.   Kept hunting for Mr.Right for long….nothing happened.   Here I’m..a virgin at 40.   Never been kissed.   Never had sex.   Never had a boyfriend.   I guess that’s my karma… instead of chasing something that’s not meant for you just live life by yourself…do things that make you happy. Maybe the world is short of people that you seek.   No compromise.   Maybe you are unique and special.   Be happy 🙂

  20. 40

    I don’t think I’ve seen so many bitter and uninformed posters in one thread. Posters who advise virgin guys to  “stay in their league” all assume that virgins are unattractive hypocrites who are only interested in “hot” women. These posters further assume that “hot” women will only go out with “hot” guys. Such “advice” reeks of envy towards conventionally attractive women and bitterness towards men.

    1. 40.1

      The only people who are bitter are the male virgins.   Should we lie or be honest?   The honest truth isn’t what you want to here.

      1. 40.1.1

        Who says they are bitter? And why advise them to just do it with someone whom they’re not attracted to, especially when you balk at the thought of being with someone who doesn’t meet with your exact imagination? There’s a lot oh hypocrisy going on there.

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