Should Men Be Forced to Pay For Children They Didn’t Want?

Should Men Be Forced to Pay For Children They Didn’t Want?Held By Father

I’m a man who helps women understand men. Not all men. Not in every situation. But, in general, if you want to hear how honest, loyal, sensitive, successful, confident, self-aware (and self-aggrandizing) men think, this blog is a pretty good place to start.

Which is why I’m excerpting what is sure to be a controversial post that recently ran in the New York Times. It was written by Laurie Shrage, a women’s studies professor in Florida and it’s like she took the words right out of my brain. In short, while no one in the world will defend deadbeat dads who don’t support their kids after a divorce, that’s a completely different scenario than men who are forced to support a child that they never wanted to have. In her opinion – and in mine – the law should reflect this obvious difference.

“If a man accidentally conceives a child with a woman, and does not want to raise the child with her, what are his choices? Surprisingly, he has few options in the United States. He can urge her to seek an abortion, but ultimately that decision is hers to make. Should she decide to continue the pregnancy and raise the child, and should she or our government attempt to establish him as the legal father, he can be stuck with years of child support payments.”

I’ve been around long enough to know that many women have the reflexive answer that if she accidentally got pregnant, he should be on the hook for it. But that doesn’t quite hold up logically. He can’t have a say over the birth of the fetus (because it’s her body), but she can have a say about whether he supports the accidentally conceived child for the next 18 years?

“The political philosopher Elizabeth Brake has argued that our policies should give men who accidentally impregnate a woman more options, and that feminists should oppose policies that make fatherhood compulsory. In a 2005 article in the Journal of Applied Philosophy she wrote, “if women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.” At most, according to Brake, men should be responsible for helping with the medical expenses and other costs of a pregnancy for which they are partly responsible.”

Continues the author, “Feminists have long held that women should not be penalized for being sexually active by taking away their options when an accidental pregnancy occurs. Do our policies now aim to punish and shame men for their sexual promiscuity? Many of my male students (in Miami where I teach), who come from low-income immigrant communities, believe that our punitive paternity policies are aimed at controlling their sexual behavior. Moreover, the asymmetrical options that men and women now have when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy set up power imbalances in their sexual relationships that my male students find hugely unfair to them. Rather than punish men (or women) for their apparent reproductive irresponsibility by coercing legal paternity (or maternity), the government has other options, such as mandatory sex education, family planning counseling, or community service.”

Is any of this ideal? Of course not. But it’s reality. No matter what we legislate, men and women are going to get drunk, hook up, forget to wear a condom, and have to deal with the consequences of unplanned pregnancies. The question is: what’s fair? Shrage seems to suggest that the current laws are anything but.

“However, just as court-ordered child support does not make sense when a woman goes to a sperm bank and obtains sperm from a donor who has not agreed to father the resulting child, it does not make sense when a woman is impregnated (accidentally or possibly by her choice) from sex with a partner who has not agreed to father a child with her. In consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent, just as in consenting to any activity, one does not consent to yield to all the accidental outcomes that might flow from that activity.”

As the author proves, one can be a feminist, demand equal rights, and still believe that a system that penalizes men so harshly for an innocent mistake is unjust. While you are entitled to disagree with me, please understand that my whole business is about learning to put yourself in men’s shoes and find a measure of sympathy and understanding for them. By insisting that a man pay hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime for a one-night stand and a broken condom, you are not indicating that you’re considering his plight at all.

Concludes Shrage, “Policies that punish men for accidental pregnancies also punish those children who must manage a lifelong relationship with an absent but legal father. These “fathers” are not “dead-beat dads” failing to live up to responsibilities they once took on — they are men who never voluntarily took on the responsibilities of fatherhood with respect to a particular child.”

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  1. 151

    Judy 154 – in case it wasn’t obvious, the one who will suffer most is …..the baby.  If a man visits a child which he doesn’t want (but has been forced to pay for, by law) the baby will FEEL this, and emotionally, will wonder what the hell is going on.  Quite rightly, I’d say.
    Abortion is not an easy choice for any mother and yes, it’s her body.
    But the child is already there – so he has the right to be alive too, doesn’t he?
    In spite of the xxxxxxxxx guy who can just fuck and move on.

  2. 152

    While I think Evan has great advice about dating, this blog post seems very narrow-minded and self-centered.  It’s not about the man or the woman – it’s about the child, who, for the record, also had no choice about whether they were born or not.
    Single mothers and their kids make up the largest demographic in poverty.  The kids that those mothers are raising have many more obstacles in front of them, emotionally, developmentally, and financially.  Losing money from a ‘dad’ who isn’t there to protect them physically, support them emotionally, or fill the hole in their life would further deprive them of resources.   And you, reading this blog, pay a price too when kids are raised in poverty – they are likely to end up needing more government services, they are less likely to contribute all that they can to society, and they are more involved in criminal activity.  
    So this blog seems pretty short-sighted to me, and I wouldn’t vote for Evan or the ‘feminist’ who thinks this is about the adults.  Hello – the government is trying to act on behalf the defenseless child.  Maybe it’s also selfish for the mom to have the kid.  But if she does, the adults are the ones who should sacrifice, not the child.  I hate to tell you, but it’s not always about you.
    There needs to be much better, mandatory sex education in schools.  Or licensing for having kids.  
    Look – if men don’t want to have a child, they should force condoms on the chicks they’re hooking up with.  I have had several guys beg me just to ‘slip it in there’ because it ‘feels so good’ – when I ask them rather pointedly if they think it’ll feel so good to have a kid, they don’t stop until I tell them NO.  I’ve had unprotected sex because a guy was so pushy – it was stupid and not really what I wanted to do, but hey – I’m just ‘reporting’ that women tend to not say no as much as they should because we’re taught to be ‘nice’ – and that’s a claim that can be backed up with research if you think I’m just making it up.  Just because guys lack impulse control and women lack a spine doesn’t mean the child born from their selfish stupidity should suffer more.

  3. 153

    Old as it is, this blog still interests me. But after reading some more of the comments, there are a few more things that I would like to say regarding this matter…
    First off, the way that court mandated child support is run today infuriates me, even without me paying it myself. But I’ve seen both sides of it, the mother receiving it and the father it’s affecting and it’s sickening. And the reason is because, more often than not, the money that this father is being forced to hand over is usually used towards selfish interests of the mother. 
    The name of this is “CHILD support”. Not “child/mother support”, “mother and her friends or new man/hookup/other baby daddys support, or even just “mother support”. Once again it’s child support. Ridiculous that I’ve personally seen and heard mothers waiting to get a child support check so she can pay to go get her hair done and a mani pedi, have a day to relax at the spa, go buy her new clothes to go to the club while child is dumped on mommy/daddy or babysitter she’s paid with support money, on drugs, or any other thing to benefit her. That money is for the child and the child only. Receiving child support is not your weekly $1 scratch off winnings to do with as you please and does not absolve you of your responsibility to finance yourself or give you an excuse to work only part time since you’re getting it. 
    My solution? Woman should have to provide receipts of things money was spent on to the government and father both showing that every penny was spent on the child. Failure to do so, or personal spending, should result in loss of monetary support and reimbursement of that months money to the father. If she can spend child support money on a bunch of bull crap, then it’s obvious she doesn’t need it in the first place. 
    Or, if the father chooses to do so, he should be allowed to purchase items to support the child equivalent to child support amount with same receipt stipulation as mother with the receipts. This is most likely what I would do. 
    Lastly, I believe a cap needs to be placed on the amount of child support paid for ANY child. The cost of a mother raising a child is not contingent upon how much money the father makes. women purposely having children with men who are doing  well for themselves has been brought up by many of you…bc they see it as a ticket to sitting on their asses the rest of that child’s childhood, and frequently beyond. The amounts I’ve seen some of my friends required to pay because they are financially well off is ridiculous and sickening. It’s time to put an end to this!!
    Man, if only I had some political influence…lol!!

  4. 154

    Derek 157 – Hm.  I was surprised to read that women spend their child support money on drugs? Really? And no-one actually notices that a mother is on drugs? Wow!
    Just love this sentence of yours:
    “And the reason is because, more often than not, the money that this father is being forced to hand over is usually used towards selfish interests of the mother. ”
    Yes, you could argue that, paying for a babysitter for one’s child is selfish, or going for a pedicure or hairdo or whatever with some money, is selfish.  By the way, it could be the woman’s one money too that she is using.
    If she is not working at all, she will need every dollar or cent she gets.  For the baby that the TWO of them made.
    In some countries, men get custody of the child and the women have to pay.  Yes sir.   And she has to keep the receipts and so, by the way, does he.
    Any normal person would keep any receipts proving what they are paying for the child, and by the way, any court would have their own estimate of what kind of budget a child of any age needs.  (To be used by the parents in case one partner contests the amount of money).
    Although I appreciate your views, any man NOT wearing a condom and who does not wish to have a child should, I feel, pay at least half.  Or, even better, the woman should refuse to sleep with him.  If she doesn’t want to have a child, or AIDS, or any STD.
    If he has made it clear after not wearing a condom that he doesn’t want a child, I’m not buying that argument.  Neither would a judge by the way.

  5. 155
    [email protected]

    Judy158-I do appreciate your response and reading views alternating from my own, as it gives me the opportunity to retain an open mind and also recognize fault in some of my own logic or to male clear things that could have been misconstrued. 
    First, I didn’t mean for my comment to come off as generalizing. It was however based on personal observance and experience. Sad as this may be, primarily from my own mother. Food stamps took care of food for my brother and sister and self, stepfather took care of our bills, clothes, what stamps didnt cover, and other financial needs. (I will say that I loved my stepfather wholeheartedly and give him much credit for loving and taking care of kids that were not his own) However, child support checks receives from my father went straight to mom and her interests and wants. I know bc I overheard several arguments about how the money was spent between her and stepfather, and my real father as well. 
    And now as an adult, I see these same things affecting many children. Are there mothers who spend their support money as they should and use it to take care of raising their child(ren)? Absolutely! But those things listed in my earlier post were personal observance. Things I mentioned about hair, mani pedis, etc were things I heard while taking my own fiancé out for these things. Or the drugs thing? I’m shocked at your shocked reaction to my comment. I’ve lived a socially variated life, from having friends in nice gated communities to government run housing developments bc I don’t judge a persons value as a friend based on how much money they make or what they do for a living. And the drugs thing I’ve seen in the full spectrum of social classes. Once again, not every mother by any means, but enough that it’s a very concerning issue. 
    And to be honest, I’m not entirely on the up and up about exactly how child support works today. Maybe it’s different from the 80s/90s when I was a kid but probably not by a lot. Also, I don’t believe my mother or family truly needed child support or food stamps for that matter, and as an adult I’ve often wondered how they acquired both. My stepfather worked (still does) as a civil engineer and while it didnt make us rich, we lived comfortably enough on his salary. 
    Lastly, a couple of your comments really stood out to me, as obviously mine did with you. “A woman should refuse to sleep with a man unless she wants to get pregnant, AIDS, or another STD” Really, are those the only possible outcomes of sex? Or sex without a condom? That’s akin to saying a person should refuse to drive a car unless they want to end up with tickets, dead, or stranded somewhere. I can’t understand why so many people seem to think, and it is mostly women that the condom is the end all, tell all of contraception and that it’s the mans responsibility to use contraception. Maybe best for STDs but this articles main focus is pregnancy. Percentage wise, many female versions of birth control are more effective than a condom. Altho I concede combined use is highest effectiveness. 
    Once again, I appreciate the chance to view alternatibe opinions and consider them for merit. However, I will stand by what I said. Maybe some examples given for my reasoning were a little extreme and biased, but I still believe those changes I mentioned should take place, whether for the reasons I listed or others. Thank you. 

  6. 156

    Hallo Derek, thank you for commenting.  It is always enriching to hear the point of view of others.  So it’s very much appreciated.
    Like you, I have had the privilege of being in all types of society.  Like you, I do not judge people according to their income – I said, or wished to communicate, how awful it was for women to be on drugs as parents, meaning ALL WOMEN (or for that matter, all MEN).  Nowhere did I say, or wish to imply, that only RICH women are not allowed to take drugs! Or it was scandalous for women who are receiving child support to spend it on drugs.  I think it is sad of any person to take drugs full stop.
    This is what I actually said about sex without a condom, in the context:
    Although I appreciate your views, any man NOT wearing a condom and who does not wish to have a child should, I feel, pay at least half.  Or, even better, the woman should refuse to sleep with him.  If she doesn’t want to have a child, or AIDS, or any STD.
    I DO think that the man should wear a condom and the woman should take the pill (or whatever).  And yes, I do think he should pay if he doesn’t take the necessary measures to avoid the pregnancy.
    Please reread my posts 154 and 155.
    Nowadays (but maybe not in America), both men and women have to pay for custody. 
    It strikes me that it is really unfair that a man can shag and move on, leaving a CHILD without money.  In the case I was speaking about, the mother does have an income.  What happens if she doesn’t, if the man refuses to pay? What happens if she loses her job and he’s not paying? Does the state do anything for her??? For the CHILD???
    I appreciate that some women try and trap men into being fathers.
    And yes, as you said, I wonder why child support is being paid when there is a high salary coming in.  The fact of the matter is that some women/men don’t get into relationships and there is only one income.  And this is where the child support comes in.  As a single parent myself, living on my own, it would have been really difficult surviving on just my salary (which was not high at the time) to look after my child and myself.
    Justice has to be just and take into account the mother, father and THE CHILD and their actual situation.
    It strikes me that for both sexes, there is an awful lot of communication to be had.  Yes, women can abort.  Abortion is not a picnic.  It is painful.
    Yes, men can say “it’s not my child and it’s not my fault”. 
    Now what do I say to my little grandson? (Yes, darling, you do have a father, but he believes that he can have sex without the responsibility OR more loving – the version I will tell him “Yes my sweet.  Your mother was ready to be a mother, and your real father wasn’t ready to be a father” (dropping the bit about and he couldn’t have given a toss who paid for your education, food, holidays or whatever!)

  7. 157

    I’m still on the fence about this one.  I agree that there are very few accidental pregnancies but I also think that men don’t have the same pressure to control their fertility as women.  We see birth control as a woman’s responsibility rather than a shared one.  If people entered sexual relationships more ethically and with more open discussion this would be less of an issue but as long as we’re entering sexuality as “you” and “me” versus “us” this will continue to be a problem.
    If a man is having sex with a woman he has no intention of becoming a family with, he needs to cover his behind and take on the responsibility of making darn sure she doesn’t get pregnant.  If you want sex without obligation, you watch your back.  As a woman, I do the same thing.  I have NEVER had an “accidental” pregnancy because I have taken all precautions against it.  Knowing that I was with a man who had no real allegiance to me in the first place made me very diligent about taking care of myself.  

    As far as fairness, it would be nice to have but life is not fair and we all know it.  Some of this “unfairness” is the simple result of biology.  Some of it is socially constructed.  You know the risks when you lay down with a woman.  I have a hard time crying for men or women who don’t “CYA.”

  8. 158

    TJ – 161 –  
    Cover his behind? How about…….using a condom??? Covering his penis for a start?
    Two people make a child and two people have to own up for their responsibility.  (Unless they are minors, I suppose).
    Fairness? And social construction? Exactly.
    If a man thinks he can get away with it, he will, because that is the way many societies ARE constructed.  It’s the woman’s problem if SHE gets pregnant when the two of them fornicate. 
    And that is what is just so unfair. 
    Ask my grandchild when he’s older.  Why the fuck did my father disappear? It’s gonna be a tough one. 
    And I don’t know if I should pity his father or secretly savour the moment when the shit hits the fan. 

  9. 159

    Men should NOT have to have anything at all to do with a child that he did not willingly father!!!!!!! I am extremely passionate about this subject. If a woman conceives a child the “father” should have every right to legally refuse to accept parental responsibility for the child, whether his or not. Then the woman can make the choice as to whether or not she wishes to have the child knowing the father will not be responsible in any way, especially financial. A woman should be legally expected to notify the “father” the very moment she is aware she is pregnant. If she chooses to wait until an abortion is no longer an option, then she has defaulted on her right to request support from the “father”. As soon as the “father” is notified of the pregnancy, he should have no more than two weeks to complete legal documents that state he either intends to or does not intend to financially and/or emotionally support the child. If he takes the necessary legal steps to remove himself as the “father”, he is allowed to lead his life without the crippling financial burden of a child support payment.

  10. 160

    How is it a woman’s fault if she gets pregnant? A woman cannot control when she ovulates or her cycle but a man can control his sperm 100%. He can control where he ejaculates without fail 100%. So an unplanned pregnancy is 100% his fault because he didn’t control his sperm and where it ended up and didn’t try hard enough to prevent a pregnancy (which basically consists of pulling out and cumming elsewhere other than the vagina). An unplanned pregnancy is not a woman’s fault at all. Anyone who blames a woman and not a man for an unplanned pregnancy is sexist. Anyone that says that only a women should be responsible for an unplanned child and a man shouldn’t bare any responsibility for a child that he helped create (and helped create more so than a woman because he can control his sperm) is sexist. A man can prevent a pregnancy just as much if not MORE than a woman… birth control and pregnancy is not just a woman’s responsibility. If a man doesn’t want a child he can PULL OUT, USE A CONDOM, GET ON MALE BIRH CONTROL, LEARN WHEN A WOMAN OVULATES, NOT HAVE SEX… (for god sakes really pull out… how hard is that????? And if you don’t pull out don’t be surprised by a pregnancy!) or deal with the consquences of an unplanned baby. Simple as that.

    If a man gets a girl pregnant he is responsibls for that child unplanned or not. He had sex so there for he chose the risk of a baby. It takes two to make a baby, not one…. or did people not learn how babies are made????

    There are sooo many single mothers out there. Everyone always focuses on the single mother but hardly anyone focuses on the fathers of these children. A single mother is made by the father leaving their kids. More focus needs to be put on the fathers leaving their kids an refusing to support them and less focus on the single mothers themselves. Single mothers are created by men refusing to take responsibility for their actions and their life choices (like having unprotected sex or making the choice to cum inside a woman). Spreading messages like this only encourages men further to not take responsibility for their children and encourages the negative stigmas about single mothers.

  11. 161

    Here is my story and im scared as hell.
    My wife and I were married for 10 years but our marriage broke down because we failed each other. I fought hard to gain shared custody of my kids and thankfully my ex and I have the joy of still being full time parents to 3 great kids. Even though the both of us are at odds, we are both mature enough to work together for the sake of our children. My only request is that neither one of us be forced into support… in which case she will soon end up making more than me.. I think that’s fair.
    Here’s the kicker….
    When I realized my marriage was over my wife wanted full custody and as much support she could get. I was devastated that what I worked so hard for was crumbling and I was powerless to stop it. My neighbor at the time witnessed a lot of what was happening and she was sympathetic to what was happening to me. Her room mate though had another goal in mind.
    After I decided to leave the house because of how hot the situation was I sank into depression.. A lot of people can relate to that. that’s not the real issue though. I was at a bar when my old neighbor and her friend were there… Me being a man had a chance to hook up and release some stress. The neighbors friend put on a show that made me happy to know that I was still desireable and things happened really fast. a month later she tells me she is pregnant and shes is moving away and im not to have anything to do with the child. But I can expect to pay support.
    She is a lazy person with no motivation to work or better herself at this present time. She is expecting me to support her and her baby while not having anything to do with the child.
    The last thing I needed in mine and my kids life was for someone to willingly get pregnant and demand support.
    If the mother lived close to me I would have no problems being a dad to the child, but this was not something I needed. It was forced on me. and now im looking at a 18-20 year sentence of support that compromises my own children freedom. As soon as she got pregnant she split. I don’t want to be a father to a child I will never have the joy of meeting, raising or being apart of. So why am I going to be held financially responsible for a women who wants a baby, the paycheque and the freedom of promiscuity while my family has to suffer. I do make good money and my kids are very attractive… I feel like I have been the target to a vicious person cruel intention.
    I am seeing this all to much today. Women getting pregnant for the sake of having something to brag about and for financial stability, and Family law is supporting this kind of conduct. There needs to be a change. Women who chose this should be held accountable, not the donor.

    1. 161.1

      The woman in question does sound like a conniver, but you are still half responsible. Why didn’t you wear a condom ?

    2. 161.2

      i can understand where you’re coming from saying that a baby was the last thing you needed at that point in your life…..and that the woman in question conned you into being a dad again……………………in my personal situation i feel that i’ve been accused of being that woman, when the truth is that my pregnancy caught me off guard too. i wasnt ready to be a parent just yet …..i wanted to be married before having a child , but it happened , and when it did i had a duty to my son to step up and care for him .
      but i suppose that people’s stories and situations are different and different school’s of thought apply……………………………but i must say that i was OFFENDED when i was accused of being the mastermind behind a pregnancy which was just as much a surprise to me as it was to my partner at the time. Just as much as we both consented to slepping together….we were also both responsible for not using protection. And in the same way we are both responsible to raise our son…whether we are toghether or not

  12. 162

    i have a child & i do not get child support. but if you want to be a man & have grown up sex with someone you are not planning to stay with & oops out pops a baby, well i so have to say you deserved it now own up to it. your supporting low life men here from what i’ve read.

  13. 163

    Look. I understand your trying to stick up for equality for both sexes. But I will never understand the argument that men should have a “say” in being a parent or not. What is this “say?” Demanding an abortion? Declaring that they won’t pay to support a child that they helped to create? 
    Because that’s the point you’re missing here. It’s all about the child, who didn’t have a say about coming into this world. A child deserves to be supported by BOTH of the people who helped create it. 

    1. 163.1

      True. there is no “Say”. The “say” is before the act of sex…..making sure that you have that discussion about protection and sticking to having safe sex

  14. 164

    I am going to have to disagree with you when you say that “in consenting to sex, neither a man nor a woman gives consent to become a parent, just as in consentiong to any activity, one does not consent to yield to all the accidental outcomes that might flow from the activity”, and this is the reason why.  Everyone knows that there is no method of birth control that is 100% effective (birth control pills have a 8% failure rate, condoms have a 15% failure rate, etc.) therefore you are fully aware that even if you are using some form of birth control a child can still be conceived.   By having sex, with the full knowledge that your actions can produce a child, you are in fact consenting.  It is not as if you are not aware of what the outcome might be.  Additionally you do indeed have to yield to the accidental outcomes of your voluntary activities….for example, if you are driving a car and your foot cramps up causing  you to hit the gas pedal a little too hard and as a result you hit the car in front of you, you are responsible for the repair to that car…or if you are playing softball and you accidentally send the ball flying through the window of someone’s home, you are responsible for that action.  Though this is an accidental outcome, you are responsible due to your voluntary activity.  Voluntary sex can lead to unplanned pregnancies, so you are responsible for this outcome as well.  

    1. 164.1

      You can disagree with that statement but how about this: Both parties consent to having sex in the first place. What we’re talking about here is a UNILATERAL decision being made by the woman after the fact, where a pregnancy occurs.
      I love all the feminists in here trying so hard to eat their cake and have it too.
      If you can’t advocate for COMPLETE equality then you should just stfu. Of course, feminism has nothing to do with equality so here we are. I do not know of ONE single mother who spends her “child support” solely on the child. This is irrespective of status as well.
      Low income moms spend most of that cash on booze smokes and drigs, while the “more fortunate lottery winners” spend it on all inclusive vacations, upscale shopping trips and all manner of self care.

  15. 165

    I’m in this situation. And I can understand why a man will feel that he shouldnt have to be responsible for a child that he didnt want……….but that doesnt change the fact that the child is there. I think what men need to remember is that it works both ways. If it was an unplanned pregnancy it was was an unplanned pregnancy BOTH ways………for the man as well as for the woman. That doesnt change the fact that the child needs his biological parents to step up to plate and take care of him/her. The child has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that his parents weren’t prepared or failed to take the right steps to prevent the pregnancy from happening. Its the baby’s right to be cared for and maintained by both parents. And honetsly if both people who find themselve’s in this situation cant see it that way then I have to ask myself how those individuals can actually stand up and say they view themselves as responsible  adults in there everyday lives. It seems to me that someone who can claim that they shouldnt have to care for a child just because it wasnt thier plan to be a parent (when in they are a parent in the present tense)….is probably the kind of person who goes around being irresponsible on a day to day basis anyway. Because its irresponsible to neglect a child, whether he/she was part of the plan or not.

  16. 166

    I have to agree with the blog. Being involved with a man that has 3 unwanted kids with 3 different women. 2 kids are the same age, seems like the women were at it for sport. One lied about being pregnant, and the other said he didn’t come up with his half for the abortion fast enough. I’ve witnessed both scenarios. They still to this day compare their daughters and want to one up each other. One went as far as asking him to relenquish his rights, but 13 years later this person with major daddy issues has now become out of control. Her mother out of the blue decides he needs to be daddy, and puts her on a plane to live with a man she’s never really known. That put a major wrench in our relationship. She and her mother were in the middle of everything. I have no kids, and I like it that way for now, but I certainly don’t think that a woman, just because she has the plumbing, can call shots. I have been waiting for my time and the last thing I want is the responsibility of kids that he really ,to this day, doesn’t know and has said repeatedly that if he could start over, he wouldn’t have. He told her then he didn’t want a kid with her, and has told her since, but yet she calls and expects a disgruntled 14yo to be parented by a man she hardly knows from 1500 miles away.
    Their are certain caliber of women that behave this way, it’s just a shame that men are so quick to stick. Now 3 unwanted people and a constant struggle for more money because they have too many kids to feed, don’t want to work, but still have nails and toes done.

  17. 167

    Never heard of anyone accidentally depositing (releasing) their sperm. If it’s not a wet dream then accept the possibility if pregnancy each time. Be selective before having sex. That’s your right and where you exercise control.

  18. 168

    I really can’t believe that any woman with all the birth control options available to her can still “BLAME” a man for “MAKING” her pregnant, really where do these women get off ,IT’S YOUR BODY LADIES TAKE CARE OF IT!!!!! You are not helpless victims. As a woman I have always seen it as my responsibility to take care of my body in every way, just as I eat a healthy diet and take exercise I also make sure that my body doesn’t become pregnant unless I want it to. In the event of an ACCIDENT of course you have the right to your own decision but that shouldn’t force parenthood onto someone who doesn’t choose or want it.

  19. 169

    I was told by this woman I was having sex with that she was unable to get pregnant. We were FWB’s until she said she was pregnant. I gave her money for an abortion which she refused to have (I never got the money back). Now a few years later she is asking me for money to help her raise this child. I’m going through my own real divorce and will have support for my son. So, am I going to get screwed now because of this other woman? I pushed for her not have the child, but she said it was a miracle that she conceived and was going through with it without my help. Now she shows up.

  20. 170

    Feels that if your going to do the acts of procreating.You should treat every act like you will become a parent,both should be held accountable for that.

  21. 171

    I am surprised by the logic in this article. I have a 7 year old accident sleeping in the room next to me. Anyone who passes middle school is well aware of the risks involved when having sex. Many of us disregard those risks like we would a waiver at an amusement park. Almost 25% of pregnancies in the United States are unplanned, which tells us birth control isnt fool proof and our biological drives are strong. Men dont have a say in what choices a woman
    makes regarding her body but women have to make a choice that contradicts oir biological altruism. Maternal instincts can be very strong. Sometimes that means having the child and sometimes not, but once the child is born it’s no longer about what’s fair it’s about what’s right. Children deserve emotional and financial support from both parents. Saying that drunken sex absolves someone of responsibility for the outcome of the encounter is like saying a drunk driver isn’t responsible for someone they crash into because they were drunk and didn’t mean too 

  22. 172

    Interesting post, Dani, but there are a few fallacies that you present.

    1) Not sure where you get the number 25% of children are due to accidents.  But even assuming that is correct, there is a huge difference between a birth control failure and an accident.  A birth control failure is when people who do not want children (right now) use a condom, pill, patch, etc and still get pregnant.  Depending on the method, that should be between 0.1-1% (though the companies admit that the majority of failures come from misuse of the product, like skipping a pill or not following the instructions on the condom – if used properly, failure is much less).  An “accident” is far more likely when one partner (or both) actually wants to get pregnant and is deliberately not using birth control (“I forgot to take my pill this week”).  True accidents are rare.  Sex without birth control is common.

    2). The fact that the woman’s choice is a difficult one does not negate the fact that she has one while the man does not.  Let’s say an un married woman meets a man that she hooked up with 6 weeks prior to inform him that she is pregnant.  She does him the courtesy of asking him his preference.  He replies that he does not want to be a father now, and will pay for her abortion, should she choose that.  She ignores his wishes and proceeds with the pregnancy.  Sorry, but at that point it’s on her.  They are not married (marriage is a signed contract that one spouses responsibilities carry over to the other spouse).

    You say that children deserve support.  I agree.  Would you also say that children deserve life and safety?  Yet we allow women to abort their pregnancies so as not to inconvenience themselves.  It is an evil done to the fetus due to the overriding needs of the woman.  But we allow it because we believe in choice and body autonomy.  If we believe in a fair society, men must also have a choice for their own body autonomy.  The work they will have to do over the next 18 years to support this child  is done with their bodies.  The woman who proceeded with a pregnancy and did not give up the child for adoption made her choice, while denying the man his own.  Your choice, your responsibility.

  23. 173

    I strongly believe that if a man gets a woman pregnant and he isn’t wanted as the father or not be able to see the child that no he should not have to pay child support because although he may not of had a choice about abortion or her being on birth control and took precautions himself. So basically in the end it’s up to the mother to sue the alleged father for money, not saying all mom’s do this and should be used under certain circumstances that the father should not have any obligations to child support if the mother is unwilling to share the child, or tricks the alleged father into conceiving a child with him, or cheats and doesnt mention who else so they are the only one that gets to looked at. also the courts should make darn sure because alot of men have to pay for children that are not there’s because the court wants that child financially supported by both parents or alleged anyways. It’s just kind of common sense I am a woman and I 100% agree that if the mother wants the child and doesn’t want the father to have anything to do with it then he should be considered  sperm donor and all rights terminated or share the child and either receive child support or split cost 50/50 and please don’t use the excuses that the rent needs to be paid or the bills because in all honesty the other household needs that paid as well and I don’t see child support splitting the costs there? Child support is supposed to be equal opportunity.  Just so we are clear I don’t have a child but I do know what it’s like as a child growing up with the father on child really actually is not any good for the child! Just a way for them to be extorted! 

  24. 174

    I agree why should a man be responsible for a child he didn’t plan on. The woman is just as responsible as the man to be on some sort of birth control. Just because you get drunk isn’t a good enough excuse. They are making an adult decision to have sex with someone they just met or dating. My boyfriend has 6 children two from a marriage and four from different women that got pregnant none he knew about until after they were born. The way he found out…attorney general giving them a date in court for paternity tests and child support. Why these woman never got in contact with them from the beginning of pregnancy is a mystery. Keep him from the whole pregnancy like he doesn’t exist and then the baby is here and all of the sudden they need him…to pay! How is a man supposed to live? How can he support that many children and try to take care of the ones that he did plan. Is it fair to them to suffer? The other children shouldn’t either its not their fault. Sadly these poor children grow up without a father because these women decided to sleep around unresponsibly. I love my man would love to be able to marry him but now he has back child support to pay plus his regular child support that comes out of his check. If we get married they take my money too how unfair is that? The laws need to change on this subject maybe if they changed more people would be more responsible. 

  25. 175
    Peyton Place

    My brother got a co-worker pregnant at his job while he was in the middle of a divorce on grounds of his wife issuing domestic violence on HIM, and her brothers having come after him to beat him up etc. The woman at work was unmarried, so she was an uwed mother at mid twenties. My brother’s divorce got final, co-worker was pregnant and sat up at work with a big belly. He was in a high powered sales job, baby momma trash talked him so much at work, he ended up getting fired from that job. I totally saw that coming, and who could blame the boss for keeping him around? What a distraction.
    The baby comes and I tell my brother not to sign Anything as there was a rumor that his co-worker (notice I did not ever say “girlfriend”) had been seeing a guy who was later sent to prison (he is not a good picker of women). Needless to say, my brother signs everything, and he is then obligated to pay for the kid for the next 18 years.
    Fast forward 18 years later (his son turned 18 years old last month). The entire time of this kid growing up, my brother’s son, my nephew, I tried to maintain a nice and healthy relationship with my brother’s baby momma, as the son was a part of the family (my parents grandson after all). I treated him like my own son, sending presents at holidays, never forgetting birthdays, calling them once a month, during the week and whatnot. Also, the entire time, this ex-co-worker kept him in court to get more and more money – it did not matter if he was laid off or not, she kept him in court up to the month before the kid turned 18 years old, if you can believe it. She even got secretly married (which I found out about eventually), which did not matter as she would still get her money, but really? Secretly?
    My brother married a second time to a shrew who told our family not to come to the wedding and to stay home if we did not like her. We stayed home, yes. Needless to say, his daughter from that marriage has only met his son from the out of wedlock situation only one time (at a party I arranged), and they are half siblings. Shrew is now also divorced from him, he has a messed up life as he keeps trying to get back together with her (unbelievable), for some unknown messed up reasons.
    End of the story, his “son” is in college now, ex-co-worker did not get my brother to pay for college also (thank goodness), but she tried at the last minute. The court thankfully said, “lady, you got your 18 years of free money, that’s all you get.” My brother has zero relation with the son as every time he was a half a second late on the child support payment, she tried to get him arrested for non-payment of court ordered child support. The upside? My brother is now a better uncle to my own boys who are grown, but that is about it. I hooked my brother’s son up with my cousins in his city so he goes to all of the family reunions now, my brother NEVER took him before as they were not talking.
    It was a messed up story, but I guess it ended okay.
    Guys, don’t get gals pregnant! They will get you in the system, you will have to pay whether you have a job or not, get laid off or not, get sick or not or get married to someone else or not (and your new wife will resent it, no matter what she says).
    Just my advice.
    Women: Stop getting guys by getting pregnant. Go online and learn how your body and female anatomy actually work. A 6th grader knows now to not get pregnant, so you should too. Kids do better when they are wanted and planned. Be in a committed relationship with a ring on it, or better yet, wait a few years to make sure and then get preggers. Set up house, find good schools, actually make a life for the kid first. Any other way is irresponsible, and it will come back to haunt you in so many ways later in life, trust me.

  26. 176
    Bob Frayer

    Yes they should pay support and mothers to be should not be permitted to get an abortion simply because they did not want a child, end of story.
    Now that my person vew is out of the way lets approach it ethically. If woman are permitted to get an abortion for no reason than men should be allowed to not pay support for no reason. This imbalance is intentional. The Government collects a bundle skimming off the top of child support payments, that is why despite overwhelming petitions this gets veto’d like crazy. To put it simply, Uncle Sam would lose a good chunk of his income.

  27. 177

    I’ll make this short. 
    If a man and women got intimacy and the she found out she’s pregnant, then it’s up to her if she wants to have an abortion or not. That’s a big decision she would have to live with and the male could care less because he will never understand what we go thru. The male should know the consequences, whether he was drunk or not. If u going to have sex always have a condom with u and if u end up with a kid then man up and do ur part, either be a father or pay child support. It was ur decision to go that route


  28. 178

    I got my girlfriend pregnant on accident and now she’s my wife. I’m miserable because I didn’t want to be married and I for damn sure didn’t want a baby. I love her but she’s going to grow up fucked up because I don’t treat her mother the way a woman should be treated….because I’m not in love with her. I finally got to a place in life where I have a good job making good money and now I have to give it up along with the best years of my life to support a baby I don’t want.

  29. 179

    Okay. A lot of people missed the point of the Original Poster. The logic that is presented is that “if you’re man enough to have sex, then you should be man enough to pay child support.” This ideology is flawed, and the laws of child support shouldn’t even be a factor as the cellular organism in question is not a baby yet.

    The ethics and morality that many women present do matter, but if they are based on fear that is fed to them by pro-life activists and/or religion then those points should be moot as they are biased bi-products of people implying that having an abortion is wrong. 

    Also, it doesn’t present any sort of logic that follows the choice baring a child there after, not does it over shadow the reality that women are choosing to go through with birthing the child in question. Let me elaborate before any misandrist goes ape shit. Proceeding with the birthing of a child against the wishes of the partner in question is irresponsible in itself. While there are many outs, the simplest one would be to recognize the choice of abortion, which will not induce 18 years of both parties suffering, one financially, and the other with the burden of raising a child he nor she is capable of doing without help.

    I agree that if a man does not agree with the pregnancy, and offers the solution for both parties as an out (abortion), then the woman should be on her own. No one is twisting her arm to have the baby, and that decision is ultimately hers. Just as it is her decision to have the child, it should also be HER responsibility for having it, because at that point it was her decision to go through with the embryo evolving into a human. The logistics behind a man having to pay for a child in the aforementioned scenario is just ludicrous. True feminism is about equality. Going against the original poster’s logic, and then presenting child support in defense to the original point is just a cop-out. 

    Child support, and the personal responsibility that follows with the subject, should only matter in situations where the father or mother in question cheats, or does something that results in divorce. Shame on men who fail to support their children in this scenario, and shame on women for bringing children into this world irresponsibly. 

  30. 180

    And lastly Shame on our society for not giving men equal rights.

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