Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex — Part II

romantic couple enjoying the time

I’ve only done this twice before: once, in a post defending Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” and a second time, in a post explaining my opposition to Rori Raye’s “Circular Dating.” These were the only two times that I remember being equally frustrated at how something was being misconstrued that I needed to take an hour and go through a bullet point by bullet point dissection of my original thesis.

Now I know that writing this is not going to change a thing. People who were irked by the concept that women should make men invest more before having sex are still probably going to be irked — but at least I’ll know that I gave it my best shot to illustrate my arguments effectively. Okay, ready? Here we go.

Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex.

First of all, here was the premise of my original post:

“You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t — because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please — don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.”

I can’t see anything about which one can argue. As always, I was wrong. 🙂

Below are some of the comments I received (in italics), along with my responses.

“What about having sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation?”

What about it? If you can have sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation, then my advice to hold out for a commitment should be completely irrelevant. How irrelevant? As irrelevant as me wondering how often I should get a mammogram. Seriously. If advice doesn’t apply to you, then you can absolutely ignore it. What you can’t do is argue with advice that is not intended for you.

This is the exact same issue I had with women who tried to pillory Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” by saying that they settled in their first marriage so Ms. Gottlieb’s advice is completely “wrong.” No it’s not. If you’re a woman who wants to have her own biological children, you have more options when you’re in your early 30’s than you do in your early 40’s. Therefore, it’s wise to take your love life seriously at a younger age, and make smart compromises when you have the most attention from the largest pool of high quality men. If you don’t want to get married, if you don’t want to have kids, and if you would rather be alone than make any compromises, Ms. Gottlieb’s advice would not apply to you. No need to get upset.

“Sex doesn’t keep any man who doesn’t want to be kept. A woman can wait 6 months 6 days or 6 hours. If he isn’t marriage-minded, it makes little difference.”

Mostly correct. Alas, it wildly misinterprets what I was suggesting. Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex. As we’ve already established, they don’t have to. Sex is so readily available from women that there’s no incentive for a guy to have to say something untrue like, “I love you” or “I want to be your boyfriend” in order to get laid. And if that’s the case, then guess what? Holding out for commitment will, in fact, scare the guy away who only wants to get laid.

It’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you or does he just want to have sex with you?

Naturally, calling a guy a boyfriend doesn’t guarantee a lasting marriage — not by any stretch of the imagination. But it does do one thing: it ensures that the guy you just slept with is not seeing anybody else and is seriously open to exploring a future. (Unless, of course, he’s a psycho who would lie to your face to get laid — and I’m suggesting most normal men would rather find another woman than to do that.)  

“There is a shaming of women for wanting to have sex.”

From whom? Not from me. As I said in my original post, “I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment.” Hell, I’ve had a lot of sex without commitment. But guess what? Most of it was completely selfish. I was attracted to them on date 1, 2, or 3. I had no intention of stepping up as a boyfriend. And if she let me know that she didn’t sleep with guys outside of a commitment, I’d have been out the door in a heartbeat. Which is the entire point of my suggestion — it weeds out the guys who aren’t serious about you really fast.

  “This is why so many feel “used” because they waited a month, or two, or three and finally “gave in” and POOF he’s gone anyways.”

I didn’t say that you should wait a month or two or three before “giving in”. Waiting for some arbitrary time period has never been the point. Because, you’re right: a guy can “wait you out” for 7 arbitrary dates, fuck you, and then bail. But since most men do not want the hassle or the emotion of calling you a girlfriend and THEN bailing, by refusing sex without commitment, you weed those guys out. Understand, if a guy is really into you after 3 dates, you can both agree to give a relationship a shot and have sex. I’ve done that a number of times — where I was so whipped that I dove into an exclusive sexual relationship right away. So it’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you enough to commit or does he just want to have sex with you?

“We woman are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Have sex too soon and you’re considered too easy. Wait too long and the guy will get it somewhere else.”  

Nope. No one is calling you easy for having sex. No one is suggesting that you’re losing out on a prize of a man if he values getting laid in three dates over how much he values you. You think you’re damned either way. I think you have all the power in the world: to be sexual, to assess your options, to understand his point of view, to make him feel good, and to STILL insist that your man be interested in pursuing a relationship before you have sex.

“EMK’s advice seems unrealistic for anyone not wearing a promise ring.”

Actually, it’s quite realistic. If you think she’s playing games to “catch” you, then nothing I can do will convince you. But if you had a great connection with a confident woman who told you that she doesn’t like the idea of you going home to write to other women online after you have sex, you would insist to her that you DO have the right to do that? Let me know how that conversation goes.

“Plus as a woman who likes sex, what the hell am I going to tell this guy if I don’t like the sex?”

You break up with him. All you people who are focused on “test driving” the car, I get it. Sex is important. But that’s the thing about dating: you have TWO PLUS YEARS to figure out if you want to get married. Sexual compatibility is one of many factors you’ll have to consider in determining your future. But choosing a boyfriend is a considerably lower bar to jump than choosing a husband.

You “sex first” people act as if you have to have sex before commitment or else. Or else what? Or else you’d discover after a month that you have different libidos, or that he isn’t great at cunnilingus? You think you have to discover this BEFORE you have a commitment…but isn’t the whole point of dating to continue to discover things to assess whether you can spend your life with a person? Again, I’m not saying sex isn’t important. I’m saying that you can engage in lots of serious foreplay before having sex, give an exclusive relationship a shot, and if it doesn’t work for ANY reason, you have the right to break up, one months, two months, three months down the line. In that regard, sex is no different than learning that he’s got anger issues or is a bad communicator. You work with what you’ve got and if you can’t make it work, you break up. You don’t HAVE to have sex first; you WANT to have sex first. Which is fine — as long as the woman is up for the insecurity of not knowing where your relationship is headed. Many, as you know, are not.  

“If our culture starts once again demanding and creating chaste women, you’re going to get chaste women through and through.”

Chaste means abstaining from extramarital or all intercourse. I’m saying that women should wait until he’s a boyfriend, even if that means date 3.

“Best thing is to remove expectations so you will never get hurt.”  

As a dating coach, I spend a lot of time managing women’s expectations and trying to ensure they’re realistic. If you expect to fall in love in 30 days on Match, you’ll be disappointed. If you expect that only “appropriate” men will write, you’ll be disappointed. If you think that just because you had a great date that you’re in a relationship, you’ll be disappointed. What I’m talking about here is completely different. You can “remove expectations” and not be too surprised when the guy who fucked you is on OkCupid the next day. I guess that’s healthy. But why put yourself through that? Why not just save intercourse for men who verbally told you that they want to be exclusive with you?

Why remove all expectations from men and expect nothing from them? Remember, that’s the biggest problem — you’ve seen it all over this blog: “Men only text! Men just want to hook up! Men don’t want to pay! Men don’t plan in advance! Men are players who don’t want to commit!” And so the answer to that is to sleep with them, expect nothing, communicate by text, and take your chances that you both decide a relationship is viable? I don’t like those odds.

If you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuse to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company.

Now to avoid being misinterpreted: if you WANT to text, fuck, and not have any expectations from the guy, God Bless You. This advice has nothing to do with you and you should have absolutely no criticism of it. This advice is ONLY for women who are SICK of sleeping with men and feeling like crap afterward because they don’t know where they stand. I will repeat this two or three more times.

“What I want to challenge you on is this notion that women ought to be bartering sex for commitment.”

I would like to challenge that notion, too. Because my clients who hold out for commitment are not bartering sex for commitment.

My clients are taking enough time to see two things: 1) whether HE is potential boyfriend material — kind, consistent, communicative, relationship-oriented and 2) whether SHE likes HIM enough to make him her boyfriend. Because as you know, it’s easy to have sex with someone out of attraction. But attraction is not a good predictor of compatibility. So if my clients take a little extra time to get past the initial lust phase and start to see a man clearly, they can usually tell if he is making enough effort to be a boyfriend AND if she likes HIM enough to commit to him.

This is coming from a place of POWER, not weakness. In my world, women are the CEO’s and the men are the interns applying for the job. And if you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuses to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company. The petulant interns who think that they deserve to have sex with women without commitment because it’s been three dates are not going to get the job. They will feel righteous, as if the woman is being a prude or playing a game. She is not. She is putting herself first because she has determined that sleeping with a man and waiting by the phone for him to call sucks and she doesn’t want to have to go through it again. I believe that’s her right. Just as it’s his right to bail. In my book, it’s more his loss than hers.

These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit.

“What keeps guys around is not sex or the prospect of sex (although it sure doesn’t hurt). It’s a strong confident in herself woman who takes pride in herself and doesn’t rely on sneaky tactics to try to catch or keep a man.”

100% agree. A confident woman will have absolutely no compunction about telling some overzealous guy that she barely knows to keep his dick in his pants. It takes confidence to be willing to let a cute guy walk away because he is not getting his sexual needs met on his timetable. These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit and keep women from having their hearts broken by pump-and-dump guys.

Another aside for those who have forgotten: if you are fine having NSA sex with men who are not committed to you, that’s your business. Whatever makes you happy. I’m not judging you, shaming you, or telling you that you’re wrong. I’m telling women who hate the feeling of being in limbo with a man how to avoid being in limbo ever again.

“Being ready to share intimacy with a man you like and have a connection with is by no means being reckless. It’s being real and embracing your feminine wholeness.”  

If you are comfortable sleeping with men from your place of “feminine wholeness” without any expectations, that’s cool. Many women are not. This advice is for them.

“I had sex with my man on the first date and shortly after he asked me for a relationship and now I am claimed as his girlfriend.”  

Yep. A lot of relationships start that way. Most of mine included. I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it. When two strangers hop into bed for a night of passion, the dynamic changes, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes, he doesn’t even like you as a person.
Sometimes, he likes your body, but not your personality.
Sometimes, he’s really lonely and really horny.
Sometimes, he’s seeing someone else at the same time.
Sometimes, he’s on the rebound.
Sometimes, he’s emotionally unavailable.
Sometimes, he’s a selfish prick.

So when one poster defends her “fuck first, ask questions later” philosophy by saying, “I got to know him after sex. I got to know all my men after sex,” what she’s really saying is that she’s willing to take a chance on a man who may not like her as a person, a man who is lonely, a man who is seeing other women, a man who is emotionally unavailable, or a man who is a selfish prick. Why? Because she has no expectations. And because she has no expectations and is perfectly willing to hop into bed with a guy, you should, too.

I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it.

Read that list again. Have you ever slept with a man like that? You don’t think that if you went out with him 7 times over the course of 4 weeks, you could maybe have figured some of that stuff out BEFORE sleeping with him?

Another reminder: if you have no issues sleeping with men who are jerks, this advice isn’t for you. But my intimation is that you’re going to know a guy MUCH better — particularly his long-term intentions and how you get along with him platonically — after a month than after a night. So what’s the harm in this again?

“Maybe we just like sex too and we need to get laid as much as men.”

Cool by me. But that wasn’t the point of the video or my blog post. It’s to protect women who don’t have that same outlook from getting hurt.

“Why would a man want a relationship with all that it involves when he can go have sex and leave and do whatever he wants?”

Because men look for sex and find love. In the act of pursuing sex, he gets to know you better and determines that he really loves being around you. The more he loves being around you, the more he’ll want to be around you over all others. And when he values you over all others, he’ll spend his whole life with you because what he gains from the relationship is greater than what he gives up by being monogamous.

“Sex is easy… a relationship is a journey.   If these interactions are not at least playful and easy from the start, they rarely ever become.”

Agreed. No one wants to have to negotiate for sex. Which is why it’s in really bad form to ask someone on the first date what his long-term intentions are. And why it’s in really bad form to ask someone if he’s seeing someone else. And why it’s in bad form to ask how many partners someone has had. And why I would never suggest that a woman come out and say to a man over appetizers: “By the way, I will not be sleeping with you tonight.” Yes, that would take all the fun right out of it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman saying, on the fifth date when he’s reaching for the condom drawer, “Hey, I’m really attracted to you and would love to sleep with you, however I don’t like having sex with guys who are actively looking for other women on Match.com. You can understand, right?” And he’ll say, “Yeah, I get it.” And then she’ll say, “So, when we both figure out if this is a relationship worth exploring, you’re in for the night of your life. In the meantime, I can think of some other fun things to do…” And then they can proceed to explore each others’ bodies to the limits of whatever boundaries she decides to set.

As an aside, it’s interesting how some “no means no” women get really upset when I tell women that they’re actually allowed to say “no”. As if I’m restricting your choice or slut-shaming you for saying yes. I’m not. I’m only saying one thing: sleeping with a man without commitment increases your chances of getting heartbroken by a selfish, emotionally unavailable, commitmentphobic guy. If you are willing to take that risk because you love sex so much, more power to you.

I’m glad that I’ve outlined a paradigm that so many women have used to great effect. A woman can say no to intercourse and still be cool, fun, playful, sexual, confident and attractive to men. All it means is that she has her own very reasonable boundaries about when she has sex. If he can’t respect that, he should move along.

Holding out for sex is not about holding out until marriage, tricking him into a relationship or trying to keep him around. On the contrary, it’s about taking enough time to assess whether your guy is truly boyfriend-worthy rather than sex-worthy.

And, as I may have mentioned: if you don’t care if he’s boyfriend-worthy and you just want to have sex, fuck away as you see fit. No one’s judging you.

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  1. 41

    I didn’t have sex until I was 26, which according to some of my friends is a really long time. The reason why I didn’t was because my college boyfriend kept pressuring me to have sex and I wouldn’t give it to him, so he dumped me to be with someone else who would. While I was extremely heart broken (it was my first boyfriend), I couldn’t imagine how much more heartbroken I would be if I actually DID have sex with him. I made a decision then and there I wouldn’t lose my virginity to just anybody and would wait to have sex with any future boyfriends to ensure they were committed to me and a relationship.

    My most recent relationship (which has been my longest) has lasted two years. I told myself I would wait X amount of time before I had sex with him. I didn’t tell him the amount of time I was planning to wait and he never pressured me for sex though I could tell he really wanted to (he’s a man!) When I eventually did decide to sleep with him, it was on my own terms and it was 10x better than I thought it was because I was ready (and I actually did it before my pre-determined time period) and I knew he wouldn’t bolt.

    I realize everyone has different views on sex, which is fine. Some people love having sex just to have sex and more power to them. I’m just not one of those people and I don’t have anything against those who are.

  2. 42
    Jessica Holting

    I 100% agree with your advice as it is the best advice for me. One thing I would like to point out is that there are so many men who simply don’t like women making them wait for sex and will therefore plant confusion into the minds of women, complaining that women are trying to “manipulate them into a relationship by denying them sex.” Ladies if a guy talks to you like that then he is trying to manipulate you! Women don’t delay sex to manipulate men into having a relationship with them and we are also making ourselves wait too.   Men are free to pursue us or not, regardless of what we do. Women delay sex to weed out the men who are not interested in having a relationship with them but only want to have sex with them. Self-respect for women who want a relationship means they don’t want to give their sex to a man who does not care for them, will not love them and will leave them alone after sex. A woman who wants a relationship will deny herself unfulfilling sex that makes her feel bad or devalued afterwards in favor of the best sex ever which is sex with someone she loves and loves her back. This is not manipulating men. This is about women respecting themselves and their bodies and being true to what they want from a man.   I know I want a relationship. I know I want love. I know that meaningless sex will make me feel used, bad about myself and unfulfilled and that to have sex with someone I love and someone who loves me back is the best sex ever and the only kind I want. I do not feel that any sex is better than no sex and I will not settle. In fact I choose celibacy over sex with someone who I don’t love or sex with someone who does not love me or worse, does not even like me. So I don’t have to settle for less if I don’t want less, and if some men want to act like big babies and vilify us for “trying to manipulate them into a relationship” then the best thing to do is walk away from them. And you can see how it got to this point of men acting like spoiled brats and accusing us of being these awful, manipulative women for not giving them instant gratification and ignoring our own needs. Because women have lowered the bar for men. It’s time to raise it back up again. That said I know not all men are like this but I had to rant because I feel our hook-up culture is causing many to be confused. The truth is unless we wait for sex how will we differentiate between the guys who really like us and the ones who just want us for sex? It’s impossible!

    1. 42.1

      Jessica @ 42 – What you are saying is so true.   I don’t know if guys actually say such nonsense to women IRL (you are trying to manipulate me) but I know some of them   like to rant about it on the blogs.  
      Pre-relationship, I am not “withholding” sex from a main.   I am REFRAINING from sex.   As is my right, as is every woman’s right.   That’s not being manipulative.   The guy can walk right out the door if he’s unhappy with a woman exercising a little restraint.   Or if he wants NSA, and she won’t give it to him, he is free to pursue a woman who will.    
      I feel like this baby boomer generation (of which I am a part) has started this whole sloppy hanging out and hooking up, go with the flow, no strings attached, let’s not label this, let’s just enjoy the moment, f**k first, ask questions later mentality.    And it only seems to be getting worse.   Sometime I feel like my generation owes the women of this generation an apology.   (The men seem to love this hang-out & hook-up culture)  
      I don’t want to go back to the so-called good old days, when women were “slut shamed”, but nor do I like the other extreme of prude shaming.   Not only is it now shameful for a woman to want marriage, it is shameful for her to even want a relationship with whoever she is sleeping with.   (and calling women who want that “manipulative” IS shaming them, or attempting to)

      1. 42.1.1
        Maria Almudena

        Jessica and SparklingEmerald, I just want to say that I agree with you both completely, and thank you for expressing it all so well. We women need to take back our sexual choice. Enough of confusing servitude to physiological urges (ours or men’s) with “liberation”.

  3. 43

    I agree 100% with your advice Evan. People who keep arguing with you can continue to do it their way and we’ll see how far that gets them. You are the dating coach for a reason! Personally, I don’t need to be convinced because I’ve already experienced this. Three dates is simply not enough time to get to know a person. For me, its not even about waiting for commitment so much as getting to know the man himself. In my experience after the first date the guy volunteers to remove his dating profile and tells me “I’ve found what I’m looking for… I don’t need to look any further”. Its very easy to get sucked into that too. The guys clearly states he wants commitment and it seems like everything is perfect, as if the two of you are on the same page. He says the right things, showers you with affection and attention, etc. So you sleep with him and then find out x,y or z about him and its a deal breaker and its over. I’ve experienced that several times and it was very painful. I’m not going through that again. It’s too easy for people to disguise themselves and hide things for the first three dates. So now I date them for 2-3 months to see the REAL person and evaluate whether they are boyfriend material; whether there are things about them that are deal breakers, things tend to reveal themselves once you’ve been dating someone for a while. Yes, when you have this standard the guys only looking for sex vanish very quickly; I have experienced this as well. That is OK. I stick to my guns no matter what. I’m one of the women looking for the 5% of men who will fit well with me; I’m very picky and sometimes it gets frustrating. I get hit on frequently and could have a boyfriend all the time if I didn’t have high standards. But at least I’ve cut down on the number of heartbreaks and disappointments I was experiencing dating. That is a good thing because I feel I have enough in me now to continue to put myself out there and continue looking for a worthy partner.

  4. 44

    I believe Evan’s advice is great advice for a   specific group of women: those who can’t handle a man leaving her after sex because it lessens her  chances of being hurt by a ‘hit it and quit it’ guy and somewhat protects her heart.  
    To be clear I’m not referring to women who are a little annoyed/upset after he never calls  then move on. I’m referring to women who quite literally can’t emotionally handle casual sex and become extremely distraught (perhaps depressed) because of the man leaving.
      While it’s somewhat of an assumption that women will become extremely distraught over a ‘hit it and quit it’,  and it’s true  some women looking for a relationship become a bit upset when the guy leaves, realistically most women get over it and move on pretty quickly.
    For women who  don’t fall into the aforementioned category, I personally believe that having sex early is the best  way to go. Here’s why:
    Generally speaking, there are 2 types of men out there: those who have zero interest in a relationship and those who are at the very least open to one even if they’re not necessarily looking for one.
    The first type can be broke into 2 categories: those who will leave as soon as they realize they aren’t getting sex quick enough and those who like a challenge and will pursue a woman   making her believe he’s committed up until the point he gets what he wants (luckily these men are rare..at least in my experience).
    When it comes to the first category,  a woman may as well have a bit of fun, get hers,  and then move on. The second is a different animal but tends to be extremely rare and is the exception not the rule despite what some people may think.
    Either way making him wait won’t cause him to miraculously become committed. He’ll either leave ASAP or he’ll wait until you’re committed (and  believe him to be as well)  then hurt you even more by leaving.
    As far as the second type of guy goes, my opinion is that if he likes you enough to want a relationship with you after you make him wait then most likely  he’d like you enough to continue to see you if you had decide to have sex sooner rather than later. Most emotionally stable men don’t like a woman enough to  pursue her for more than a  couple dates (that’d put him  in the first category)    then suddenly stop liking her/lose respect for her  because she had sex with him.
    In the case of men who would pursue a relationship with a woman if she makes him wait but would look down on her and no longer find her desirable if she has sex early with him, that sounds like a man who holds others to a higher moral/ethical standard than he holds himself  even though  the other person made no commitment to be held to a higher standard.
      If that’s the case then women need to ask themselves if they really want to be in a relationship with someone who holds her to a higher level of morality than he holds himself. That doesn’t sound like a man with integrity to me.
    To sum up this novella, Evan’s advice is great for women who emotionally can’t handle a one night stand/sex without commitment. It weeds out most men who are looking for a hit it and quit it thus  sparing her feelings.
      However, it’s irrelevant to other women b/c a man who would pursue a relationship if he has to wait will likely pursue one even if he didn’t have to wait so waiting is rather pointless.
    Finally, this opinion is  referring to  women who desire a relationship but can handle it if sex doesn’t turn into a relationship. If you’re a woman with zero interest in a relationship then whether or not a man is looking for a relationship is irrelevant. Simply be up front and honest about your intentions and go get some.

    1. 44.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Just a note: “Either way making him wait won’t cause him to miraculously become committed.” The goal of making him wait isn’t to miraculously make him commit. It’s to buy yourself time to get a sense of whether he’s truly boyfriend material – instead of sleeping with him and keeping your fingers crossed.

    2. 44.2

      Jan @ 44 – “Generally speaking, there are 2 types of men out there: those who have zero interest in a relationship and those who are at the very least open to one even if they’re not necessarily looking for one. “
      Jan – Do you think there are men out there who are actually LOOKING for a relationship ?   I think there is a category of men who are actually LOOKING for a relationship but are open to FWB, ONS and other kinds of casual sex while they search.   Also known as the “placeholder” girl.   I think waiting also eliminates you from being the “placeholder”.   Sometimes being the “placeholder” can actually drag on for years.   He becomes the boyfriend who can’t quite commit to marriage.   Then when that r’ship ends, he marries his next girlfriend within a year.
      In the case of men who would pursue a relationship with a woman if she makes him wait but would look down on her and no longer find her desirable if she has sex early with him, that sounds like a man who holds others to a higher moral/ethical standard than he holds himself  even though  the other person made no commitment to be held to a higher standard.
      I totally agree with you on that !   I think if there wasn’t this double standard, women wouldn’t take it so hard when they run into “use ’em and lose ’em types”, although I do think our female biology plays a big part.   Trying to separate nature from nurture in human nature will be a never ending debate.   Some say that there is a biological basis for men and their double standards.   OK, I get that men are driven to “spread their seed” and that the sex drive in men is extremely high, but I really don’t get the biological imperative to hold women in contempt when they give them what they want, what they pressure us for, what they beg and plead for, what they manipulate for, for what they have numerous books, boot camps and web based learning centers for.   All these lessons in how to pick up girls for instant sex, all so you can try and turn them into an object of scorn.   (Then complain that all American women are sluts, and try and import a mail order virgin or near-virgin from another country)  
      I really have little patience for men who pursue women sexually with a vengeance, and then refer to them as “sluts” or “whores” after the deed.   Hippocrits.   Even Evan says some men are sexual hippocrits, (although EMK definitely is not)  

  5. 45

    Geez Louise I’m sorry you’ve had to defend your position rather extensively.   I’m a girl with a degree and a career, and nothing about what you’ve said on the economics of sex has offended me.   I’ve been through the hurt and learned the hard way, with some help from those like you.   With more prudence in how I handle men, I’ve been much happier, even without the sex, because like you’ve said, this economic strategy weeds out the dull from the shiny, and in the end I feel better able to choose high quality men.    And it works! Also I feel better about myself being around men who treat me well!   Men and women, sl***ts and j**rks alike, we rise to the occasion to be ladys and gents, but we must take equal parts in challenging the other sex to be the best version of themselves.   Thanks for the post and posts like these, and also thanks for putting your personal stories into it!  

  6. 46

    2questions: 1) why is ‘allowing men to explore your body within boundaries you are comfortable with’ is not considered as having sex? Are we in Clinton’s definition of sex? Last time I checked it was called cock teasing and barely differs from false promises
    2) still not clear why EMK doesn’t agree with Rori Raye’s concept of circular dating, can somebody explain?  

  7. 47

    What’s wrong with following the bible and what God says about sex?   Have you ever read the book of Solomon?   God created sex and it is suppose to be within the boundaries of marriage.   There is nothing wrong with following God’s guidelines for sex and waiting until two people are married.   It’s about having a relationship with God and how He designed it.

    1. 47.1

      Been there, done that. Had bless than ten orgasms during a 30-year-marriage. A very sad sexual mismatch. Don’t do it.

      1. 47.1.1

        I’ve had terrible sex outside of marriage, what’s your point? Waiting till marriage doesn’t necessarily mean it will be bad.   I agree with Chloe. I know a few ppl that were exclusive for a few months, had sex, BC failed, woman’s pregnant and she ends up raising the kid alone.   Having sex with someone you’ve only know for a few months is stupid.   You could create a child with that person, and then what?   Most guys in that situation are going to run. That’s the problem with using sex for recreation or a trial run.

  8. 48

    Dear Evan,
    Thank you so much for this blog.   I skimmed through the comments, and I read a few, but I can’t read all of them because, like Sierra, I can’t believe how your message is being misinterpreted.
    This blog helped me to understand why I’m more comfortable waiting to have sex, and why I need to stick to that.   I can’t tell you how many people say, “you only live once,” “can’t believe you haven’t had sex in so long!   Girl, go have some fun.” I’ve taken this advice, and it just doesn’t work, for me.
    Everyone is different, and I do not judge anyone that can have sex on a first date.   I’ve just come to realize, that it’s not for me.
    Thanks again for this blog post!
    ~ Yvette

  9. 49

    Great post, thank you for all the details, it was fun to read and I couldn’t agree more. As someone who has a more traditional view of sex and relationships, it was refreshing to read that there is no shame in waiting. With a large hook up culture on the rise, it’s somewhat alienating since ‘hooking up’ before a commitment feels alien.

    Holding out on sex until you are comfortable and 100% sure that the person really wants to give all of themselves to you can be such a great experience and a learning journey. I tried commitment free sex and it turned out sour, me losing respect for the man and never calling back and hurting him, which just added to the crappy feeling.

    Thank you again for this post and all your other posts. Your perspective is refreshing, helpful, and compassionate for males and females without bias <3  

    Thanks Evan  

  10. 50
    Nicole Horton

    Evan,,,, I really really enjoy your posts !!!!   I just brought one of your programs too.   I feel that if people don’t agree with what you say , then that is their issue because you are helping women from your heart and telling us the secrets so that we can avoid being hurt again !!   This means a lot.   I learn something from all of your posts and I hold them dear to my heart.   Please keep doing the great job that you are because your posts really seem spot on to me !!!   🙂

  11. 51

    Evan, I agree 100% with what you have said. And reading some of these comments makes me wanna palm my face. People are missing your main point here and making it way more complicated and trying to find fault in every detail of what you say. I know from personal experience that every time I have waited to have sex the guy seems to be more serious than when I give it up right away. Granted, I have come a long ways, my past track record I have dated some real D bags. But I have read your book and some of your blog and learned a lot.  

    1. 51.1

      I met a guy who I was just going to casually hook up with, But I made him work to see me, even running away from him when he asked to kiss me. He still chased after me and we did end up hooking up. But he said he wanted to take me out and asked if I would like that so I said yes, assuming it was lame BS to get in my pants. He took me on a real date and the next weekend while hooking up, he asked me to be his girlfriend. Is this an exception to the rule? He even stuttered and was like “I’ve never met a girl…. I just really like you” I said yes and we have been together almost a month.     

  12. 52
    Robin Gregg

    Good job Evan marc Katz i love this advice and all your articles

  13. 53

    I find your viewpoint to be very refreshing actually.   I used to be like the dissenters on here, was all about the casual sex, fwb situations, sex on the first date and although it had led to two long term relationships, I eventually realized that it had nothing to do with me feeling feminine, liberated, sexy or exerting control over my own body.   If anything this behavior came from a serious place of LACK!   Often I came home from amazing dates or one night stands thinking that it was so good, there was no way he wouldn’t call.   Well….more often than not, he disappeared.   I switched to casual sex without commitment and I don’t think I have ever felt so cheap in my life.   We attract what we are, and if we don’t value ourselves,   we will inevitably attract someone who also doesn’t value us.   No man is looking for a hooker with a heart of gold, they’re wanting someone worthy of the effort  

    A few months ago I came to the conclusion that I wasn’t just some   piece of ass that exists for some man’s amusement.   I did not want to attract this sort of man, but I knew thst I had to face the possibility that many more men would most likely fade away if I exercised any sort of control over my sexual boundaries.   And I accepted that because the more men that disappeared, I realized they were just one more step closer to someone that would value me for more than just an orgasm.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting until you feel valued and you feel that things will go further, emotionally speaking, if that’s what a woman wants to do.   Chances are the bad men will fade and the better ones will stick around.   Those of you who have sex with whoever, whenever, don’t be surprised when you want to settle down, only to find that the same men are suddenly MIA   at the slightest hint of commitment  

  14. 54

    Evan, I really like your blog. Sometimes your advice is hard to hear but I think you are generally 100% correct.

    I have been dating a guy for about 4 weeks and he’s been great, he seems to be really into me but we haven’t talked about exclusivity. Last night he took me dancing and dropped my off at home around 2AM. I told him I was going to say goodnight at the door (he was pretty drunk and I was tipsy). He seemed hurt and maybe a little pissed! He walked away with a shocked look on his face that I didn’t invite him inside to “hang out” (we’re both 28)

    I confess I was a little worried about whether or not I would ever hear from him again, but then I thought “hey if he never calls me back then he was probably a JERK” because I don’t think I did anything wrong by not letting him in my apartment to presumably have sex. I read this article and trusted your advice.

    WELL he just texted me saying he’ll pick me up tonight for our date (his company holiday party- good sign, right?) everything seems to be fine with us

    Anyways I think your advice is 100% right. Don’t fuck him til he’s showing he’s committed if you want a committed relationship! If he likes you, it won’t be a problem rebuffing his advances (not forever, my goal is 6-8 weeks )

    1. 54.1

      Hey Kate, this is great. Glad to hear it’s working out for you! Just curious though, did it all work out in the end? Did you guys become exclusive?

  15. 55

    Thjank you so much Evan. I feel you are a real angel for women. The paragraph with the “Sometimes…” really opened my eyes.   Thank you for spilling the truth so we can make the most empowered choices for ourselves.

  16. 56

    the real source of the problem here is not being addressed.   the problem is that we all need to stop teaching men at an early age that if a woman sleeps with you on date one two or three that she is not worth committing too.   the women who have made the statement that they are with men they slept with early on in a great committed relationship are with men who do not share this judgement.  

    1. 56.1

      I don’t think this is necessarily being “taught”, Sam. I think it’s human nature to value more the things you have to work hard for — and to devalue, dismiss, and take for granted the things that we obtain easily and cheaply. And if the cheap and easy happens to be a woman, her body, her sexual favors, the man often gets this subconscious message that she doesn’t value herself, so why should he value her?

      Yes, there are people that end up in committed relationships even when the woman made herself instantly sexually available, but I think there are other variables in those situations, rather than what those men had been “taught”.

      Incidentally, society gives us all many conflicting messages about sex and relationships, so we are all being “taught” a variety of things. What we choose to believe among those things has to do with our personality, beliefs, the fundamental values we adhere to, our psychosexual makeup, etc.


  17. 57
    Jay Dee

    I like what Martha has to say. She places the onus on both the man and the woman. Women need to figure out what they want and when they want it regardless of what the man may want. Men must figure this out as well. I have dated lots of women. My approach immediately is to give off a vibe of “I am not in a hurry” (it works fellas-especially when you really are not in a hurry). Take her out on a beautiful date. Try the theater, the hot new restaurant, some dancing. Take her bowling or to a professional basketball game. Then . . . wait and see what she will do. Lots of kissing of course by this time. Usually, what I have found, whether she is from my circle of professional social outlets or from my inner city social circle, women are ready within 2-3 dates. And to explain that, what I mean is, whether she is college educated and gainfully employed, or if she is a woman with a job and getting by, she isn’t waiting! Even when I have stated I am looking to find that one woman, it is usually 2 or 3 date’s tops. So I am not sure what all this waiting business is about, I have not seen women wait. Who is truly waiting??? Let’s be honest here.

    1. 57.1

      I am waiting. Not as any kind of strategy, but because I cannot think of anything worse than having sex with a guy that doesn’t care about me at all. I did this when I was younger a few times, it’s no fun AT ALL. Not for me.

      There may not be too many women who wait to have sex between two or three dates, but the situation you are describing tells me that the women you date would be better off waiting. You are describing a plurality of women who don’t wait. They don’t wait, you don’t commit. Easy come, easy go. You are giving even more weight to Evan’s advice with your testimony.

  18. 58

    I think it all stands in the fear of being alone. People are willing to give up too much or even give up themselves or what they really think about sex in order to get a little bit of affection, is practically like saying “I prefer the half of you, than nothing”, even when they don’t really know the person they’re involving with.
    I’m giving this opinion from my own point of view. I’m a pretty successful and independent lady who works on the financial market, speaks 5 languages and…believes in love the way it worked last century. My point isn’t to be cocky, it’s just that is doesn’t make me feel weak or submissive the fact that I like to be won. And that I like to win a guy too. Even when I live a life of a 21 century woman.
    I’m 22 and I’ve been single for 3 years, it doesn’t scare me, it doesn’t make me feel like I wanna give up on love or guys. It’s just the fact that if I wanna give and I want to care and I want to “invest” and I want to feel ,I want to do it because I WANT to , not because I NEED to, so if a guy doesn’t call cause I didn’t sleep with him, it’s fine, he has his rights too.
    For me that makes all the difference…what I’m willing to give and what I’m willing to receive in order to get in the type of commitment that I want? What kind of relationship do I want? Do I love myself enough to know the line of yield what it’s fair?

    1. 58.1
      Maria Almudena

      Hi Maria

      I am now using my middle name so that we can be distinguished from each other, lest we are construed as one Maria arguing with herself! =D

      OK, not really here to argue with you (I mostly agree with you) but just to tell you that, in my experience, having sex with a man too early doesn’t provide any bit of affection, and in fact it highlights the lack of it. There is enormous difference in the way a man touches you, kisses you, makes love to you when he loves you or at least cares for you deeply than when you could drop dead and he wouldn’t give a f****. The loneliness, the absence of affection and closeness, the lack of intimacy is compounded and revealed in its full sordidness by meaningless sex.

      So, like you, I won’t compromise is how I want to feel before I am ready for physical intimacy with a man. There have to be other kinds of intimacy and closeness before sex happens.

      1. 58.1.1
        Maria Almudena

        Also adding that, like you, I am a career woman who speaks several languages and has lived in various countries, and I am also a feminist who likes chivalry and courtship. Being a strong and independent woman doesn’t preclude embracing the aspects of traditional gender roles that work for us. It’s all about choice

  19. 59

    I am a guy. Now that we have gotten that out of the way, I also have a point of view. Why is waiting for sex bartering? Why is waiting for sex holding out? Why is sex being considered “currency” here? I think that we are looking at it through the wrong lens.

    Sex is a PART of a relationship, sex is a neccessity in a relationship. But first, you have to have a relationship. This means, sex before you have a relationship is putting the cart before the horse; so to speak. So stop looking at it as something he wants that she won’t give him. In my experience *MOST* women are not prudes, nor are they cruel. Women want us to connect with them emotionally and treat them like people; not disposable, pleasurable distractions. Men I can assure you that women want sex too. Treat them as a person like they deserve, and you will be amazed. You might find out that there is an intriguing and engaging individual that you can have a lot of fun with outside of the bedroom, and you just might find yourself in the bedroom more often.

    That said, I think this is what Evan is trying to point out. Allow me to elaborate:

    Two things happen when we meet someone new, physical attraction (a.k.a lust) and emotional attraction. One happens in the pants and is immediate, the other happens in the heart and mind and takes time to develop. Guess which is which. 😉

    Lust/physical attraction is the result of a chemical reaction that occurs when we meet that attractive new person. Our brains release a surge of dopamine, norephinephrine, phenylethylamine, testosterone, and adrenaline. These are powerful chemicals, and we can become addicted to them, ever hear of “in love with being in love?” There is MRI research that shows that the human brain on heroin, and the human brain on sex look exactly the same. All of these hormones are also released during sex; and this is where we begin to get to the point. Once the physical need is gratified, and our brains have their fix there is no need for us to stick around. This is the major issue generating a cycle of negative behaviour. Specifically, “hit it and quit it” behaviour.

    Emotional intimacy, and attraction also release a very powerful chemical called oxycontin. This is the hormone that is responsible for the intense bond between a mother and her child; need I say more? Unfortunately, for emotional attraction and intimacy to develop you actually have to get to know the person, and this takes TIME. Once emotional attraction is established, when you have sex and gratify your physical needs, all of a sudden there IS a reason to stay.

    I believe if we could stop being so dogmatic, we might see what the author is actually saying. Namely, “Overcome your hormones in order to take the TIME to build a foundation for this newfound attraction before you gratify your rather immediate urges. You will build a healthy relationship not founded solely on physical attraction. This will also serve to protect and insulate you from the people out there that are only interested in the chemical fix that comes from gratifying physical attraction.” That is all. No one is saying that you can’t have fun if that’s what you want to do. This advice is specifically geared towards women that are looking for a RELATIONSHIP, and it is very good advice.

    So here is the final issue, how long does it take for emotional attraction to develop? What, do I know everything? 😀 I can only share my personal experience. I was emotionally attracted to my wife the very first day that I met her. I sat on a couch and talked to her all night long until she fell asleep on my shoulder and I realized I was talking to myself. She looked so peaceful and content that I sat there until she woke up out of fear of waking her. I knew that she was the one in that moment. On the other hand, it took her quite a while to get there. So, I waited for her and we did a million and one fun things that year. That’s right, I said YEAR. Twelve years later, was it worth it? Uh, yeah, one year was a bargain.

    So here is my point, if the two of you are “in to” each other emotionally, then sex should not matter. Let it happen when it happens. If that is in three dates, wow good for you, if you have to wait a year like I did, then so be it. If he/she is worth it then it will not matter. Our society is all about instant gratification, and “I want it now.” However, we ignore the fact that the most valuable things in our lives are those things that we WORK the hardest for and EARN. Most of you will tldr this, and that’s okay. If you never take time, how can you ever have time?

    1. 59.1
      Karmic Equation

      You express yourself like a woman would. So I don’t believe you’re a man. You’re the wife writing as the husband, to try to lend legitimacy to your post. Maybe you’re not even married. It’s my gut feeling though.

      1. 59.1.1

        You are free to believe what you choose. Interesting that when confronted with something to which you are not accustomed, you immediately throw insults and make assumptions. Based on what criteria I wonder? Based on this falliable logic, were I standing in front of you naked, I would still be a woman because I don’t like sports.

        Before anyone jumps in to tell me that I am not being insulted, that only an observation was made, let me stop you. I have been called a liar, and have been told that I am feminine, a woman, somehow less than a man? That first sentence has me confused; how exactly does a woman express herself?

        For everyone’s edification, I am married, I am a man (last time I looked down anyway), and I have three children; two girls, one boy ages 11, 7, and 5 respectively. The legitimacy of my post stands on its own merit, neither gaining or losing based on the gender of the author.

        I express myself like any man who realizes that every woman out there is someone’s daughter, sister, wife, or mother. I express myself like a man that grew up only wanting a family – something I never had. I express myself like a man who has two daughters, and would wring the neck of any man who did not treat them like the princesses they are. I express myself like a man unconcerned with how social norms, and others believe I should express myself. And maybe that is why I have been married for 12 years, and I have a happy wife. Hopefully, I will one day have two very strong and independent daughters who are able to make wise choices when it comes to dating. Lastly, if I am really lucky, my perspective will rub off on my son.

        But, since we are establishing clear and acceptable guidelines on how exactly one should express themselves when they are of the masculine gender, please enlighten me. How should I be expressing myself oh presumptuous one? This mode of thinking is a major reason why men are reluctant to express themselves in a, for lack of a better word, “sensitive” manner. Because then they are feminine, homosexual, sissies, or any other manner of perjorative. I have heard them all, and believe me, other men will attempt to re-educate you if you speak like this in front of them. By the way, they don’t do this in a passive manner either. Fortunately for me, I’m a slow learner, and growing up I could fight.

    2. 59.2
      Maria Almudena

      Hi Brandon. Surely you haven’t lived your whole life as a man and missed that many men have sex in the absence of any emotional attraction? Your whole premise that sex is part of a relationship is radically flawed in many people’s minds. Surely you have heard the expression: “It’s just sex, it doesn’t mean anything.”? Surely you have heard men talk about sex like a physiological need that necessitates release, akin to taking a shit? Or just harmless “fun”? Or some kind of sport or something?

      Come on, I agree with you as far as what sex should mean, what it means to me, but the problem is that we are deeply divided as a society when it comes to sexual values, you see? The belief in an emotional dimension to sex is far from universal.


  20. 60

    The selfishness of both men and women these days is really just astounding .

    Man – all for themselves and what they can ‘get ‘ out of a man/ woman .

    And down the road , these people will end up alone ,lonely and unwanted .

    It’s that simple . Love is about giving , and thinking of others . And if you
    think you can divorce spirituality from sex and have that work – you are sadly sadly
    mistaken .

    1. 60.1
      Maria Almudena

      OK, NA, love is about giving and thinking of others. But we are talking about dating, which is usually a pre-love endeavor. In the absence of love, there has to be some consideration for mutual needs, for what each party expects from the situation and what they are prepared to give in return. Give too much too soon (or love too much too soon) and you will alienate the other person or risk being taken for granted, or for a ride, or down the garden path.

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