What To Do When You Don’t Trust Men

You may think a little mistrust is healthy. It’s not. It’s toxic. Join me on this Love U Podcast to see how your lack of trust doesn’t protect you from bad men, but rather protects you from true love, which involves letting down your guard, being vulnerable and trusting.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Yet Another Guy

    I am glad that you discussed the “friends first” fallacy with the first caller.   You know that I have ranted about this fallacy in the past.  It is such a common problem for fifty-something men that we just “next” profiles that contain that phrase.  It was insightful to see what is driving this desire; however, it was also good how you highlighted the normal order in which a man engages a woman.  Women have no idea of how strong the primal urge to pursue and conquer can be at times.   Without that urge, men would not attempt to couple with women, and it is through it that we find love.

    Another important topic on which you touched was emotional bandwidth.  If a man is calling a woman and seeing her every week, there is a very high probability that she is his one-and-only.  Dealing with a woman is emotionally draining.  Dealing with more than one woman at time is so emotionally exhausting for the average guy that it is unsustainable.

     

    1. 1.1
      Stacy

      @YAG

      I would submit that if you think dealing with a woman is emotionally draining, then you’ve been with the wrong women.

      I do agree with you about the ‘friends first’ part. I think women sometimes put that in their profiles as a means of protection, not because they really mean it.  After all, if you’re on a dating site, you’re not really looking for a friend (unless we’re talking about a FWB situation).

      1. 1.1.1
        Chris

        Woman complain about men only wanting one thing. But if they did date a guy who actually took “friends first” seriously and went on multiple purely platonic dates without attempting any kind of sexual escalation whatsover, not even kissing, then most woman probably would feel something was wrong.

        1. Stacy

          @Chris

          I definitely agree. She might even be offended…ha

        2. Caroline

          I dissagree. As a 40 yearold woman. I want to be friends with a man first and no kissing until the I Do. I know some might say there is no way a man will wait around and no want to be in a relationship that does not involve kissing or sex. well I know for a fact that a relationship can start off this way. I have seen living proof. My friend started her relationship this way. They did not kiss until the pastor said you my now kiss the bride. When they went in for the kiss they did not know which way to turn, it was great to see that once they kissed. And they ate expexting their first baby. And so did many others with no kissing or sex until the wedding night, Eric and Leslie Ludy are another example. They even wrote a book about it titled When Dreams Come True. One can even see the podcast video they did from when they first met to their wedding day. 
          Once I am meet a man and he wants to kiss me. I’m not going to right off and tell him I’m waiting until my wedding day. I do not want to scare him off. All I’ll have to say is “I do not know you all that well” and if he is still around a month later and brings up kissing then I can tell him I’m waiting until my wedding day. And if he ends up not wanting to continue dating me then that just means he was never the right guy for me any way. There are plenty of guys out there who will wait. And plus this helps me weed out all the toads pretending to be prince charming.

        3. Buck25

          @ Caroline,

          Really??? What alternate universe did you beam down from, again? I ask, because things seem to move at a far different pace, wherever that is; what’s the average lifespan there, about…hmmm, let me take a guess, about 12,ooo solar years, give or take? Sounds about right to me.

          Anyway, this little third rock from our star is called planet earth, and here, it’s just a teensy, weensy bit different. How different? Well, our life span is somewhat shorter than yours, and so we move a little faster; otherwise, we’d hardly have time to mate in a mere 80 or so solar years, on your timetable. Anyway, here, we customarily kiss by the second date, sometimes even the first; and while we might wait a year or two to get married, we typically have sex after a month or so.

          You’re shocked? Oh, I’m so sorry…What? On your planet, kissing IS sex? My, that’s interesting! Listen, I hate to rush, but I’ve got my third date with this one woman in a couple hours, and you know how it is; got to enforce that “three-date rule”  tonight! Awwww, now don’t go away mad; I hope you enjoy your inadvertent visit, but somehow, I don’t think you’re gonna like it here…

        4. S.

          Really depends on different values.  Some might feel that way.

          I guess the question is what kind of friend?  A truly platonic friendship probably doesn’t have the physical chemistry necessary for anything more.

          I don’t think ‘friends’ is the word people mean. Some people just want to court slowly.  That still exists.  It’s mostly very religious folks, but not always.

          They aren’t on another planet, just it’s an actually really big planet with room for lots of different ways of courtship.

          Is it efficient? Probably not.  But I like to think the right people will find each other anyway.

          Sometimes on this blog, there isn’t a lot of diversity of ideas.  We all don’t have to be one thing. Everyone who reads this isn’t even all from the United States or from western culture.

          I try to keep that in mind when I read comments.  I’d like to learn from other cultures different from mine.  I like to know there are different ways to court and not just one way.

        5. Faye

          Of course she would. Just like it is a man’s Primal urge to conquer a woman in the first place, it is a woman’s Primal instinct to react to being chased. We don’t like to admit it, and will usually label it under showing effort LOL, but it is what it is. we want to be wanted ,we want to be chased, and we want to be won, at least at some level. I’m not trying to open a can of worms. I’m not trying to say women shouldn’t be appreciated for all that they are, because they should be just as men should be. But if we’re talking Primal instinct…

      2. 1.1.2
        Yet Another Guy

        @Stacy

        You would be surprised by how much of a disconnect there is between men and women when it comes to emotional capacity.  Women are gifted in this area compared to men.  What women consider being non-emotional is not what men consider being non-emotional.  The number one complaint that I hear from my single male friends is how emotionally draining it is to be with a woman, which is why many of them chose to remain single.  Not wanting to bear the emotional load that comes with being with a woman is the reason why I am avoiding a relationship; however, I am working on the problem.

        As I mentioned in another blog entry,  any male profile that contains the phrase “friends first” should be treated as suspect.  Players use the phrase as a weapon to throw women off guard while they move in for the kill.   Other men use it when they mean that a women will have go through an FWB stage before being considered for the position of girlfriend.  The only men who actually mean it are emotionally damaged to the point where few woman will find them desirable.  These men have been so thoroughly emasculated by a woman that they are afraid to make a move. What woman wants to be with a man who asks for permission to kiss her?  Regardless of what women may say, they want a man who can read their body language and make a move when the time is right.  It is all about being pursued.   Women love to be pursued, which is why women should not attempt to thwart the primal urge to pursue and conquer with the “friends first” nonsense.  If a woman cannot see herself being more than friends with a man from the first date, she should not accept a second date.  I can assure you that that is how most men operate.  If a man is not wondering what you look like naked on the first date, there probably will not be a second date.

        By the way, I do not know if the second caller is making this mistake, but a guy who reads body language can sense when a woman is not into him.  If he is into her, but unsure of her desire for him, he will often give her a second date.   A lot of women unknowingly put out the “I am unavailable/unobtainable” vibe.  These ladies are often the women who wonder why he lost interest after a couple of good dates.  It is quite simple.  The guy invoked anti-friend-zone defense.

         

        1. KK

          “Players use the phrase as a weapon to throw women off guard while they move in for the kill.   Other men use it when they mean that a women will have go through an FWB stage before being considered for the position of girlfriend.  The only men who actually mean it are emotionally damaged to the point where few woman will find them desirable”

          YAG,

          I’m not so sure about your other assertion, but I’ve found this to be true. One guy I dated shortly after my divorce was final, said he wanted a “best friend”. When that didn’t get the desired response, he later said he wanted a girlfriend. And when that didn’t get the desired response either, he said he could see himself remarrying. Lol. All three of these conversations probably took place over 6 to 8 weeks. The problem (for him) is that I wasn’t particularly interested in any of those options. I was just dating for fun. But it is interesting to see that some men are willing to jump through hoops in order to try to get what they want. Maybe those guys should just try being honest. 

        2. Yet Another Guy

          *choose to remain single, not chose to remain single

        3. Yet Another Guy

          @KK

          But it is interesting to see that some men are willing to jump through hoops in order to try to get what they want.

          You have no idea of how strong the primal urge to pursue and conquer can be at times, especially when a man is in his peak testosterone production years.

      3. 1.1.3
        Buck25

        For any of you ladies who don’t get why “friends first” is such a great way to get us to next your profile (I do that instantly, every single time), let me explain to you what we take that to mean. Possible translations from the “woman speak” to plain English include, (a)”I don’t trust my own judgement, so,  I’m pre-emptively going to friend-zone you until you prove to me you’re “not like all those men who only want sex”, (b) “I am hopelessly insecure, and  my best hope of ever getting a relationship, (which I’m afraid I can’t hold up my end of anyway, because I don’t believe I have anything else a man would actually want), is to put you through maximum time and effort chasing sex with me, until you backward rationalize (you know, like I do) that I must be worth a relationship somehow. Besides, I don’t have any confidence in bed, either, and if I gave in, you’d probably leave anyway”, (c) “I actually am an emotional mess, , and know I really shouldn’t even be dating, but it’s all my ex-husband’s/boyfriend’s fault, and besides, every woman knows only those awful men need therapy to fix themselves and become self-aware, like I am, just because I’m a woman…whoops! Guess I forgot …doesn’t matter, it’s all MEN’S fault anyway, so screw ’em (never literally, of course!)” (d)) (rather common in the sixty-something and seventy-something age group) “I really only want/need a man as a companion, and of course, travel ATM. I couldn’t care less what YOU want, largely because my libido (if I ever had one, can’t remember) last left the building about ten years ago. But hey, this is the internet, and as P.T. Barnum said, “there’s a sucker born every minute”, so maybe I can get something for nothing here after all; what have I got to lose?”

        As you might imagine, once a man understands that, he’ll run from that profile like it was contaminated with Ebola virus. Doesn’t matter if the rest of it reveals the face of an angel, the body of a playboy centerfold, and the soul of Mother Teresa. You might as well hang out a sign that says “I am not actually even friend or dating material, let alone girlfriend material!’

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          Buck,

          That made me laugh!

          I didn’t realize what a huge red flag “friends first” is.  Even though I’ve read many women’s OLD profiles, I don’t remember those words jumping out at me.  I have never put that, or other similar phrases in my profile because–Hello!–it’s for a dating website. Not a platonic friend finder site.  And if I’m on a dating site, I’m looking for the whole sundae, not just the chopped nuts 😉

        2. Buck25

          GWTF,

          Glad you enjoyed the humor, lol! It was only partly tongue in cheek, though. Now, just like you I see it as a dating website, which means I’m looking for those who might at least be potential girlfriend material; if I were looking just for friends, I’d probably look somewhere else, as I  imagine you would. The problem is, there are people out there (both genders) looking for anything from hookups, to FWB, to long term relationships, to just window shopping, and a lot (again, both genders) are often less than honest (even with themselves, much less anyone else) about what they’re  really looking for. We can’t always discern that from a profile, but, like YAG and a lot of men, I’ve learned that phrase in a woman’s profile is a clear sign that reads “Danger! Active Minefield!”  As YAG notes, beware of the same phrase in a male profile; it’s a classic player’s move. Guys who actually mean it are either asexual,  betas who, were they any more feminine, would actually be women, and assorted religious fanatics (see Caroline’s post above for a female example).

          In the beginning, especially if we meet you online, real men are always looking at you primarily for sex. No need to apologize for it either, it’s what we do, simply because we don’t know you well enough at that point to be looking for anything else, really; we haven’t yet discovered those other compelling qualities  that will make us want to keep you for other reasons. We’ll pick those up (if we do), as part of the process of chasing you. Until that happens, though, it’s like YAG says; if we don’t wonder what you look like naked by the end of the first date, there won’t be a second date.

      4. 1.1.4
        Leslie

        No, we put ” friends first” because we want the relationship to progress organically, at a reasonable pace and aren’t just looking to hook up with you from the first date!

    2. 1.2
      Malika

      Hi YAG:

      When the right woman comes along, i am sure you will find her energizing, not draining! If the women you have dated up until now, result in tiredness, then they are just not an addition to your life. You also seem to be processing the aftermath of your divorce, and that might mean that you don’t have the room yet for a new woman in your life. I tried to date while recovering from a burnout and even with the loveliest of men i wanted to be home, alone, underneath the duvet.

      1. 1.2.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @Malika

        Dealing with a woman has been an emotionally draining experience for me for as long as I can remember.  I have always needed time away from the woman in my life to recharge.  Most of my friends feel the same way.  That is why guys want to hang out with their buddies.  A male outing is guaranteed to have at most two emotions; namely, joy and rage.

        1. Malika

          Hi YAG:

          What is your motivation to get back into dating again? You have said before that you are not especially motivated to have sex, that being by yourself in that way is just fine, as you don’t have to deal with a woman and her emotions surrounding the sexual encounter. Dating for (American) men is an expensive proposition as they are the ones obliged to pay at the end of the evening. A couple of wines isn’t much, but it sounds like a waste of money if you don’t find their company at least sometimes entertaining and stimulating. On a companionate level, you state that you find women emotionally draining, and need time to recharge. I take it when you are with your male friends that you are energized by them, you find their company stimulating and a positive addition in your life. Is their platonic companionship maybe all that you need?

          I also find that solo sex can offer the release i need for now, and that sexual partners that i don’t feel attracted to aren’t in any way an option that would add anything to the experience. It’s not that i am not open for a casual encounter, but that i would have to WANT to do it, not as something that is socially mandated since i have been single for a while. It feels rather freeing, as i don’t have to deal with my conflicting emotions, never mind the emotions of the man who invariably then expects way more from me than just a bed partner after the encounter, even though the feeling is not mutual (FWB’s generally involve me being everything but their girlfriend in name, which always feels like a one sided taker relationship, and that is why i have banned them from my life). The dating process can feel like an allround drain quite often, and i know that i cannot motivate myself to keep on doing it unless i have a clear goal in mind. Mine is to find an emotionally healthy and attractive guy to share my life with in a monogamous relationship. I just cannot imagine why you would willingly subject yourself to the dating process unless there was a clear and attractive goal at the end of the road.

          This is by the way not a criticism, i just seriously don’t get it.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Malika

          I hold out the hope that I will eventually find a unicorn. 🙂

           

        3. Expat

          Between this comment and your one below about finding a unicorn, it sounds like you might fall into the category of someone with some tendency towards avoidant attachment? Does that ring true to you? It might explain why you find relationships with women emotionally draining.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Expat

          I would love to agree with you.  It would explain things; however, I am very open with the women I date.  Most are amazed at how easy it is to talk to me as well as what I am willing to discuss.  For me, it is an emotional energy thing.  Emotions just wear me out.  Taking about emotions usually does not make me feel better.  It makes me feel exhausted.  I want to exit the room as fast as possible.

          I believe that the real reason that I find relationships draining is that my personality type is INTP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP_rel.html).  I am almost a textbook INTP, and INTPs are notoriously bad in the emotional support department.   I have gotten better at providing emotional support over the years, but it can still be an incredibly draining experience.

          Anyway, I have been paying attention to personality types when dating, and I am starting believe that there may be more than a grain truth when it comes to selecting a partner whose personality type is compatible with one’s own.  I met a women on a dating site about five weeks ago who I actually cancelled on a couple of times before finally deciding to meet her in person last weekend.  I kept cancelling because I could not stomach the thought of going on yet another first date.  The  reason why I finally decided to meet her was because talking to her on the telephone was as easy as breathing.  I am usually fairly good at holding a telephone conversation with a woman I have never met, but this experience was on a completely different plane.  We spent at least ten hours on the telephone before me met.  I had worried that we had invested too much time before meeting, but the experience was the same in person.  I discovered that she is an ENTJ, which is supposed to be the natural personality fit for an INTP.

        5. Buck25

          @ Malika,

          Actually, much as I enjoy women (some of them, anyway), YAG sorta does have a point. I mean, do you have any idea how much that comes naturally to a man we just can’t do, when you ladies are around? In no particular order, we’re not supposed to belch, spit, fart (especially not in competition to see who can rip the loudest one), use filthy language (other than in bed), flirt shamelessly with every barmaid and waitress in the place, get totally wasted, trash the room with beer cans and leftover nachos and pizza, yell, scream at the TV because the hockey team we bet on lost, dammit!,  piss on the sheet of tin behind the gas station, just for the hell of it, fight, drink some more, go whoring (unlike the rest of you, hookers don’t seem to much care what we do, as long as they get paid), maybe even drive over to Tijuana, and engage in some drunken debauchery with some more hookers, all the while trying to elude the authorities (those sons of Satan), get in another good drunken brawl, before staggering home and collapsing on the couch or the floor (couldn’t find the damn bed, again), to sleep it off. Male memories are made of this; it’s called male bonding. The only men who don’t do at least a little of this, usually because they’re too married or too damn old, wish they could. Like YAG says, most of you simply wouldn’t understand…. We get around you, we’re actually expected to act, well, civilized. Our way, is so much more relaxing; doing it your way, requires effort. And then you wonder why we all want sex? Hell’s Bells, woman, that’s the only thing natural to us we get in your world!

        6. Yet Another Guy

          @Buck25

          I barely made it through your post without passing out from lack of oxygen. I was laughing so hard that I could not breath.:) You pretty much nailed why a man would rather hang out with his buddies than a woman. I am 100% positive that men would not attempt to couple with women without the motivating factor known as sex.

        7. Buck25

          YAG,

          Ain’t it the truth! It all  started about 100 years ago; like Tector said in “The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean”, “The boys went off to war, women got the vote,  they put in Prohibition, and the whole damn country went to hell! Everything that comes natural to a man, drinking’, whoring’, fighting’, gamblin’ and the like, was all of a sudden immoral, illegal, or both!”

          It’s been that way ever since. Women just can’t leave well enough alone. Let ’em get a man, and they have this compulsion to make us more like them, and get upset when it doesn’t work. They get themselves a lap dog, think he’s cute and cuddly, until his sniveling and bleeding his emotions all over the floor gets to be too much; they kick that one out, and go find themselves a wolf, and as soon as he lets one of them pet him, damned if they don’t promptly try to domesticate him, like the lapdog they left him for. I wish they knew what they want, but in 68 years on  this planet, I have never found one yet who did, not for more than 5 minutes at a time, anyway. They are pretty adamant about what they don’t want, and that’s a real man in his natural state, except maybe in the bedroom. I never did much like the Victorian era; entirely too prudish and proper for me, but they did have one good idea. After dinner, the men could retire to the smoking room or gentleman’s club, where they could actually act like men, without offending the tender sensibilities of their womenfolk. Now, seems they’ve taken even that away. If this society really was the patriarchy they say it is, sex would be the only reason we haven’t put a bounty on them!

          I’ve told them here, that If they keep that up, one day some poor, sexually deprived little geek with coke bottle glasses, toiling away in some obscure lab, is going to invent a fully functional, anatomically full-featured, female robot that can be customized for appearance, and programmed to treat us exactly like women do in their better m0ments, only all the time. It would never cry, nag, feel the constant need to vent, tell us what to do, bitch about what we did last night, and would never have a headache when we’re horny. I told them that once every man had one of those, women could marry each other, and all would be right with the world. As I recall, they were remarkably (I thought) unenthusiastic. I guess, if they didn’t have something to bitch about (namely, virtually everything we say, let alone everything we do), they would have no idea what to do with themselves.

      2. 1.2.2
        Katie

        +1 Malika, you beautiful soul you.

    3. 1.3
      SS

      Friends first is not something supposed to be taken literally.  if you couldn’t imagine being friends with a woman and getting to know her somewhat respectably on her timeline, you should not be trolling for sex.  Emk might say it “straight” but he doesn’t advocate for douchery.  It seems like some men come on this site wanting to be “validated”.  Now see this, it ain’t happenin’.

      1. 1.3.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @SS

        There is a difference between being respectful when getting to know a woman and being foolishly naive.  Friends do not dictate the terms of a friendship.  That is why men “next” women whose profile contains the phrase “friends first.”

        Let’s be clear about something.  Women generally control access to sex.  Sex is easy for women to obtain, which is evidenced by how many men will date down to obtain it.  However, men generally control access to commitment.  That is why so many women visit this blog with questions pertaining to commitment.  Trust me, one does not see men asking questions about commitment on male-focused dating sites.  The cold hard truth is that a desirable man does not have to be mindful of a woman’s timetable because there is always another woman who will sleep with him, usually on the first or second date.   A man will be patient up to a point if he believes that a woman is worth it; however, if she plays the he has to be mindful of her time table game, he will invoke anti-friend zone defense and move on.   No woman is worth that much effort.

  2. 2
    KK

    For me, mutual trust is super important, but it’s something that deepens and grows over time. There’s no way you can trust someone you’ve known 2 weeks as much as you trust someone you’ve known 2 months, 2 years, 20 years…

  3. 3
    Gina

    I am dating after 27 years of marriage. I am guilty of being the interrogator. I have the natural desire to want to protect my heart after going through such a damaging betrayal. One man that I am very interested in has suggested that I was jaded because of my experience. How can I not be? I would love to find someone that is willing to work with me as I work my way through this phase. This particular guy asked that I give him 50% trust and let him earn the other 50% over time.  That statement validated my hurt and his willingness to work with me. I dont want to push the possibility for a loving relationship away because of my past. I am a work in progress. His willingness to work with me meant the world to me.

  4. 4
    mgm531

    “I am dating after 27 years of marriage.  I am guilty of being the interrogator.  I have the natural desire to want to protect my heart after going through such a damaging betrayal.”

     

    If you are still feeling jaded, untrustful or suspicious towards potential dating after your divorce then I would suggest that perhaps you are not ready to date yet.  As Evan has suggested it is not fair to any potential person you are dating, man or woman, to be assumed guilty by association simply because of something bad or wrong that has happened to you by someone else.  That’s not to say that we’re all innocent of such thinking.  For me perosnally I could have easily have become bitter and distrustful towards all women after the betrayel of my ex-wife and the subsequent very expensive and loooooong divorce process, but I didn’t and I am not.   Because I knew that she was just one person that screwed me over that happened to be a woman.   That certainaly does not represent a reflection of all members of the female gender.

    1. 4.1
      Yet Another Guy

      I believe that your assessment of the situation is correct.  I usually move on when I encounter a woman who has adopted the attitude that a man is guilty until proven innocent.  Life is too short for that much drama.  This attitude is what drives men to seek substantially younger women.  While a large part of what drives men to seek substantially younger women is the desire to be with a hard-bodied woman who has not bore children, an equally important reason is the lack of trust issues and other baggage.  Younger women are just a heck of lot more fun to date than most peer-age women.  They do not make a man jump through as many hoops.

      1. 4.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        *has not borne children

    2. 4.2
      Gina

      I am putting in the effort to change my mind set. Therapy and support groups have helped. As I think the woman in the pod cast stated: perhaps it’s not the men that aren’t to be trusted but my own judgement of the men. Definitely a lot to think about.  I don’t regret meeting any guys since. With every meeting I have learned something about myself and about what I am willing to do for that person as well as what I need in return to feel a connection. No rush. It has been quit the experience thus far. A source of entertainment, a distraction at times and frustration at times.

  5. 5
    Chris

    At 21:00 I agree its actually a good thing when a guy expresses sexual interest even very early on, provided its not scary or distasteful. I mean, in this day and age why wouldn’t a guy try and get laid early on? Maybe he’s a perfect gentleman who just somehow knows exactly the right timetable for her on when to escalate sexual interest. This is what women want I suppose. But more likely is that he’s inexperienced and shy and doesn’t know how to express himself. Or he has a low libido. Or just he just doesn’t find her all that attractive.

    But if you do find a guy with options, socially able, with a decent libido and who finds her attractive, in order to make him be willing to wait a month or two she’s really going to have to make him feel good. I disagree with Evan about blowjobs and handjobs, I think these are just sex. But on dates she should be fun, lively, entertaining, non-critical. And she’ll also have to convince him she really does find him sexually attractive, and that sex won’t be too far off, and when it does come it will frequent and great.

     

     

     

     

    1. 5.1
      Yet Another Guy

      A woman who wants a man to wait that long needs to be able to turn his world upside down.  I know very few men my age who are willing to wait more than a month before escalating intimacy to that point.   There are more fifty-something women than men and desirable fifty-something men tend to have more dating options.

      1. 5.1.1
        KK

        “There are more fifty-something women than men and desirable fifty-something men tend to have more dating options”.

        That’s great, YAG. You have more “dating” options. Why would that matter to a woman who’s looking for a relationship? As I said before, I’m not in relationship mode, so I’m just playing devil’s advocate. But if you’re only interested in dating and the woman you’re seeing is interested in seeing if you’re potential relationship material, what’s she going to think if you move on because she didn’t have sex with you during your acceptable time frame? I’ll tell you. She’s going to think she dodged a bullet. She’s not going to be concerned she might have missed out. Why would she when you’ve shown no concern for what she needs? A man’s need for sex does not trump a woman’s need to feel valued. Smart men know this. Quality men take this into consideration when looking for a mate.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          I am not talking about me, KK.  I could care less if a woman wants to have sex with me because what is often desired in return is currently not worth the price of admission.  I would rather set the table for one sexually.  It is guilt and hassle free.

          With respect to the quality men comment, I think that you have been listening to too many dating coaches.  I have been a man for over half of a century.  I am privy to what men say to other men behind closed doors, many of whom have been close friends for decades.  Men are not out to hurt women.  Men are just men.  The reason why I like Evan is because he is the only dating coach who appears to not sugar coat things.

        2. KK

          YAG,

          My comment about quality men comes from my own experiences and observations over my own 42 years.

          I never said anything about men’s intentions. I’m sure most men are not out to hurt women, but those men do exist. Listen to what the first woman said in the video. It’s really a moot point and not one I was trying to make. If you think telling women they need to have sex by x # date or time frame or they’ll get passed over, the overwhelming response will be, “who gives a damn”?

        3. Emily, the original

          KK,

          But if you’re only interested in dating and the woman you’re seeing is interested in seeing if you’re potential relationship material, what’s she going to think if you move on because she didn’t have sex with you during your acceptable time frame? I’ll tell you. She’s going to think she dodged a bullet. 

          I agree with you on this. She’ll just think: Next! The only time she may be hurt if a man moves on is if she feels she hit the motherlode and really likes him or hasn’t meet anyone she really likes in a while or he looks like her dream man. Doesn’t mean she won’t stand by her decision, though.

        4. KK

          Thanks, Miss Emily.

          Until reading this blog and hearing about all these other “options” all these very desirable men have, I was completely unaware. Lol!

        5. Emily, the original

          KK,

          Until reading this blog and hearing about all these other “options” all these very desirable men have, I was completely unaware.

          I was, too. I just assumed every man I dated had no options and had built an Emily shire to genuflect in front of for the rest of his days!   🙂

      2. 5.1.2
        Yet Another Guy

        @KK and Emily, the original

        If you want to take someone to task, your ire should be directed at your competition.  A lot of women just give it away today.  I never had a stone-cold sober woman offer sex on the first date until I was in my fifties.   I thought that it was a fluke the first time it happened to me.

        As far as to the first caller’s plight, well, extremely charming men tend to be cads and narcissists.   A woman’s natural instinct should be to run as fast as she can whenever she encounters a charming man; however, most women do the exact opposite, and wonder why they end up getting blindsided.

        1. Emily, the original

          Yet Another Guy,

          If you want to take someone to task, your ire should be directed at your competition.

          A lot of women, once they become aware of a competitor, remove themselves from the competition. He’d have to be that unicorn you mentioned you were looking for. A extreme rarity. And by extreme, I mean once-in-decade.

        2. Sylvana

          Thank you, Emily. Very few women I know like to feel like they’re competing. Might be fine to some super-hot chicks for an ego boost, but as you mature, women tend to get over that. If a man makes you feel like you have to compete, you need to let him go. And men, really, are no different. They don’t like to be in competition with others constantly either (as much as some women might think they do). Talking about making either partner constantly feel like they’re not good enough.

        3. Emily, the original

          Sylvana,

          Very few women I know like to feel like they’re competing

          I’ve done it once in my life, in my 20s. And once I landed prize, I of course discovered it hadn’t been worth the effort!

  6. 6
    KK

    My heart really goes out to the first woman Evan talked to. It’s a shame some people are so selfish they have no regard for others and how their actions affect them.

  7. 7
    S.

    Trust. Hooboy. That’s a biggie. I give full trust but I don’t know sometimes if people appreciate it.  I only give full trust once.  Trust can be earned back but it is rarely quite the same.  Also in the early stages you have your rose-colored glasses on too.  (They make every thing so pretty!)  If trust goes  awayaround the same time as the glasses become clear, it’s difficult for me to go back. I start thinking, is he untrustworthy or just flawed like everybody else?

    Wow, Evan you were great with the first caller. I had no idea. You were so kind and patient with her.  I like when you asked her what attracted her in the first place: charm.  I met one of those last year.  He said everything you’d want to hear.  But I was suspicious and he didn’t get very far with me.  I wondered later, if I had had a lack of trust.   But my instincts were right, he was a charmer and frustrated with me that it didn’t get him as far as it probably usually did.  Why did I keep him in my life for a few weeks? I liked the charm.  And it was kind of a game. I knew what he was and he knew I knew.  So who was going to get the upper hand? It was kind of fun until I got bored with it and he said something to me in a tone I didn’t like and I was out.

    Took a while to get past that, actually.  Even though I wasn’t used or anything. Even though I knew it wasn’t real, I had wanted something real.  Still do. I never blamed men.  But I did stay out of the game for a while.  I made sure when I went back it was with my usual love of life and men.  It just took me a long while.

    Trust.  A biggie.  Is it untrustworthy if a man is chronically late but says he won’t be? It’s just easier if he accepts being late and you decide if you can live with that.  Is it untrustworthy if a man takes you out really late in a neighborhood you don’t know and gets so exhausted that you have to be the one to find a way to get you both home safely?  Maybe trust isn’t the word for these situations. But a woman has to feel safe with a man. I say give full trust freely, just be on the lookout if you feel in your gut and it’s backed up by actions that your trust may be misplaced.

  8. 8
    jj

    Evan, great podcast, you are a hoot sometimes!

  9. 9
    Stacy2

    Trust is something that should be doled out freely but in limited doses appropriate for the stage of your relationship. You wouldn’t trust a stranger with your child or the keys to your home, or with your heart right away. First you trust them with choosing a cafe for your date. Then you trust them to go away with them for a weekend (though I always tell a friend where I am going). Then you trust them with your keys. Then you trust them with your heart… It’s not all or nothing.

    1. 9.1
      Stacy

      Again Stacy2, I agree. I don’t go into dating consciously not trusting but there is no way to fully trust a stranger. At the beginning, I will allow for one to earn my trust but that doesn’t mean I am operating from a place of MIStrust. Like you said, it’s not all or nothing…as time goes on it builds or destructs depending.  But no, I don’t operate from a place of fear. I will not be checking phones and I refuse to be in a place where I am trying to figure out what a man’s actions mean because his actions aren’t clear, etc.  I see red flags and I’m gone if my trust is violated.

  10. 10
    Nichole

    Dear God, the woman you interviewed in this segment was annoying. Clueless. As a woman, I can easily see how she’s had problems with men. She sounds older but terribly naive and not very self-aware.

    1. 10.1
      KK

      A tad harsh, Nicole? She isn’t clueless. She’s reaching out for help with something she doesn’t understand.

  11. 11
    Malika

    Have you ever been with a man who constantly vented about women and his exes? It erodes all the joy out of being with them, and it turns out to be a self fulfilling phrophecy as your wariness makes him even grumpier and dissatisfied. I always think of those guys when i notice i don’t open up to men. I also think that if you have trust issues you might need a guyatus in order to recover from past patterns. We feel like we constantly have to date, but a guyatus and the attendant breathing space will give you the means to let the right guy in.

    My heart goes out for the first caller. Having a string of bad men can make you hit right bottom. She also seems to be in a fragile state, and she needs time to recover from her surgeries and sadness. A guyatus and building up her romantic confidence will do her wonders. Gradual dating when she is better will go well and there is a great medium between friends, which isn’t what you want and sex within the first couple of dates.

  12. 12
    Yet Another Guy

    Did anyone catch if the first caller has ever been married?

    1. 12.1
      KK

      YAG,

      I don’t believe she mentioned if she had ever been married or not. She said something about a 4 yr (?) relationship. Maybe she was married at some point. Not sure.

  13. 13
    Connie

    I really appreciate hearing from Men on this issue of relationships. Thanks for being candid with us! “Men are not out to hurt women. Men are just men.” This explains a lot! If only men would turn it around: “Women are not out to be clueless and not give men what they want. Women are just women.”  If we can just reach a happy medium! Try to understand and give each other the benefit of the doubt. I think this is where we find the “motherlode” as one comment mentioned. Give each other time and space, be honest, be kind. And TRUST is the biggie. It’s a complicated world out there; so many new variables to navigate. What is it we both want and need? Negotiate for it.

    1. 13.1
      Yet Another Guy

      Women are indeed just women.   Women speak a different language than men when it comes to relationships.  The pain is the result of poor translation.

  14. 14
    Nova

    yes yes yes to healthy boundaries! I feel the first caller’s pain, I’ve been there. I know this is personal but anyone who is struggling with these feelings is most likely a people pleaser with codependency issues…both are symptomatic of childhood neglect or trauma. It takes a lot of effort to face your own bad behaviors but they most definitely affect who you’re choosing to interact with and it takes practice to develop healthy boundaries, falling for narcissistic types can become compulsive. There’s some great online content by Pete Walker and Richard Gannon on this topic.

  15. 15
    Connie

    Yet another guy, I loved how you explained the problem: “The pain is the result of poor translation.” It’s so hard to sit thru the pain, not to run and hide, or lash out, or avoid. I have had a few male friends over the years who would have made a great husband if only I had been a little bit wiser at the time. (Sadly, I missed those chances; they’re probably happily married now.) Those men knew how to communicate, ask questions without emotional barbs, give candid answers instead of withholding and stonewalling for power. It’s all about being afraid, isn’t it?  But what have we go to lose, really, by being vulnerable? I love how Evan and others advise us to take risks and let go of the fear of making a mistake.

  16. 16
    V

    My first response to this interview was…rage. “I have to take another caller,” he says. Because of course, the gaping abyss of sadness is so vast that no dating coach can fill it. She sounds familiar to us, because we know this woman. She stays too long at the bar, she’s telling you too much too soon. Really, she is just like all of us. How can we be happy? Where is peace? We think it’s other people and it never is. Peoples pain can’t be solved in relationships, there is deeper trauma. “I have to take another call.” I understand he does. And yet.

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