How to Find a Guy on Online Dating Sites

You go online and browse through men. You know what you’re attracted to: six feet tall, Master’s degree, six-figure income, same religion, and political beliefs, fit, handsome. You set your search criteria to get all these traits and come to the conclusion that dating sites suck and there are virtually no men out there on a conventional dating site. You then conclude that the better path is to go on Tinder, Hinge, or Bumble because at least there are cute guys on there. And there are, but the experience invariably sucks. What’s a girl to do? Stick around and I’ll explain to you how your way of searching is killing your chances of meeting Mr. Right.

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Comments:

  1. 21
    Jeremy

    Ah. Deuteronomy 30, verse 15 (I’ll write it in the English, but the Hebrew more dramatic): “Behold, I have set before you today, life and good, death and evil.” [skip to verse 19] “This day, I call upon heaven and earth to bear witness, Life and death have I set before you, the blessing of good, the curse of evil. And you shall choose life, so that you and your children shall live.”

    Wraps it up nicely. The tree of life and death in the Garden of Eden metaphor, the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. Seemingly two different trees. But the ending in Deuteronomy implies that it was actually the same tree, just different perspectives. To choose the good is to choose life, to choose evil is to choose death. Deuteronomy implies that the tree is a metaphor for the proper pathway through life, beginning at roots, stemming into myriad branching possibilities. All that happened between the first story and the last was just a case in point, a guidance. Much had changed, the lesson (hopefully) learned.

    BTW, I never brag about being in the top 20% of geeks. One who is, just is. Doesn’t talk about it 😉

  2. 22
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “BTW, I never brag about being in the top 20% of geeks. One who is, just is. Doesn’t talk about it ”
    But does one really want to brag about being a geek even if one could? Of having a vast knowledge of J.R.R. Tolkein? 🙂

  3. 23
    Jeremy

    It’s Tolkien, Em. And people who love Lord of the Rings do love to brag about it. I’ve never been to Comic-Con (not my scene), but the fans are fairly proud. Funny what we brag about and what we don’t. If the qualities we possess are those that are valued by society, we brag about those qualities. If they aren’t, we’re less likely to brag, unless the thing we value about ourselves is our unconventionality, or unless we simply don’t care what the masses think.

    As I’ve grown older, I’ve become much more secure in who I am, what I like, and what I don’t. I’ve read fantasy books much better than Tolkien’s. And I’m not shy of letting people know what sorts of things I like. If those people consider me a geek (in a bad way)….I’m just less likely to want to spend time with those people. To me, THEY are the boring ones.

  4. 24
    jo

    Thanks for sharing that perspective, Jeremy. If we were in person, we could more easily discuss that idea you shared of the two named trees in Eden being, in fact, one and the same. While I like that idea, I believe they are separate, at least if we are talking about all living creatures and not just humans. Good vs. evil seems often a matter of choice for humans, whereas Life – biologically speaking – encompasses so much more than just that choice, if many living things can even make that choice (trees? squirrels? bacteria?).

    Then too, with humans, life and death by that analogy would seem metaphorical, as we want to believe (given our inborn sense of justice) that people who do good feel Life, and people who do evil feel something like Death. But sometimes, actions that society considers good or evil may be social constructs, however much we want to think that there is underlying agreement on what is absolutely good, like truth, kindness, justice, etc. (e.g., we have to believe some segment of society still thinks ‘honour killings’ are ‘good’). And sometimes good people suffer terribly, while evil people flourish.

    Ultimately, I think real life is much messier than any literature can capture – although we try to approach it in our poetry, holy texts, and more. Maybe that takes our discussion full circle: right back to where we started. You can decide if anything has happened in the middle. 😉

    (Poor Evan’s like: what does this have to do with ‘how to find a guy on online dating sites’?)

  5. 25
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    I was pulling your leg. I was going to write “Star Wars,” whose appeal to adults I have never been able to understand. Those movies are children’s fables. I assumed you’d be into something a little deeper. 🙂 But I think we reveal much more about ourselves than we realize just by walking into the room. So there’s no need to announce we’re hot or we’ve got women lined up in the que, etc.

  6. 26
    Jeremy

    I know you were, Em, wasn’t offended. I think there’s meaning in all sorts of things. My wife has a hard and fast rule about books, shows and movies – if there’s a dragon in it anywhere, she won’t watch. Not into fantasy, sci-fi, or anything that isn’t “real.” I understand her intellectually…..but my gut tells me that being shackled to reality hobbles the imagination, our understanding of ourselves, our aspirations, fears, dreams. I don’t think that the phenomenon of Star Wars that has stirred the imagination of millions of people is somehow shallow. Its depth just goes into a different dimension than other sorts of depths, and so is seen as flat by those not attuned to the dimension. I’m sure that people see all sorts of things about me when I walk into a room. But I’m not at all sure that those things are the most important things about me.

    Jo, I would love to discuss this topic, though I agree this isn’t the venue. I agree with you, though, about distinguishing good and life, evil and death. But remember that we’re speaking about the perspective of the Old Testament, where morality was considered as dictated by a higher power rather than a human concept projected outward to the world. If one believes in a supreme being watching, judging, rewarding and punishing, then one would certainly conflate the terms. If one sees that such judgment is absent from the universe, one must realize that being good does not always result in reward. One must decide whether the being is reward enough. Not simple. What does it have to do with dating? Nothing….and everything.

  7. 27
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “I don’t think that the phenomenon of Star Wars that has stirred the imagination of millions of people is somehow shallow. Its depth just goes into a different dimension than other sorts of depths, and so is seen as flat by those not attuned to the dimension.”
    It’s a story that follows Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey, which I find infinitely more interesting than than the story itself. “Wizard of Oz” follows the same story trajectory. (Another movie whose appeal I have never understood. Give me “Gone with the Wind” any day. But OMG Clark Gable! 🙂 ) I don’t mind sci-fi, but I find that people who are really into it want to discuss it in excruciating detail without noticing that other people are zoning out or can’t keep up with the conversation. I don’t get to talk about most of the stuff I find most interesting. It’s life. You usually have to steer the conversation toward what is palatable for the group. Unless, of course, the group is sci-fi enthusiasts.
    “I’m sure that people see all sorts of things about me when I walk into a room. But I’m not at all sure that those things are the most important things about me.”
    I just think we give away a lot more than we think we do.

  8. 28
    Jeremy

    My father LOVES Joseph Campbell. He and my uncle sit around, drinking espresso, discussing symbolism while the world spins round and events pass them by. It’s not that I have reflexive antipathy toward the topic, it’s just one of those mild triggers. Like you and dry Rationals, Em. I think, though, that when it comes to Star Wars, or Harry Potter, the story transcends the hero trajectory. Because it’s the worlds and their mythologies that generated the interest. The magic of Harry Potter in a school environment was far more interesting to me than the main plot. The magic of the Force in Star Wars, the idea that my flashlight could become a lightsaber, far more interesting than the insipid story. The thought that but for pesky reality, *I* could be a wizard, a jedi. A fantasy that speaks to my unspoken wants. But yes, I completely agree with tailoring a conversation toward the audience, though I’m often guilty of forgetting in practice.

    What do you think you give away?

  9. 29
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “My father LOVES Joseph Campbell. He and my uncle sit around, drinking espresso, discussing symbolism while the world spins round and events pass them by.”
    I would LOVE to be included in that conversation. The last conversation I truly enjoyed with someone was with a friend who shared a very personal story and then discussed Joseph Campbell and book recommendations. And that was months ago. That is kind of sad.
    “It’s not that I have reflexive antipathy toward the topic, it’s just one of those mild triggers. Like you and dry Rationals, Em.”
    Actually, Dry Rationals are a big trigger for me. Whenever someone says, “I am a very logical person,” the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. That is NOT something to be proud of. 🙂
    “The thought that but for pesky reality, *I* could be a wizard, a jedi.” A fantasy that speaks to my unspoken wants.”
    What do you mean? What unspoken wants?
    “What do you think you give away?”
    That’s hard for me to answer. I think most people are pretty wrapped up in their own stuff and aren’t paying all that much attention to other people. So I don’t think I give away much of anything at all. I don’t say that as a “poor me” statement. It’s just life.

  10. 30
    Kitty

    My theory about why sci-fi/fantasy is so popular with nerdy guys is thus: most guys who grow up to be nerds aren’t the fastest, strongest and most aggressive boys on the playground. There’s a “King of the Mountain” mentality that underlies the way that little boys typically play with each. And it leaves a lot of smart and less aggressive little boys feeling uncomfortable and discontented in the natural world of physical reality. They long for an escape and sci-fi/fantasy offers them an escape from the limitations of the natural world. I think video games are immensely popular for this reason as well. And that’s why so many video games are based on one on one combat. A shy unagressive boy who might never be able to win a real life fist fight with a peer can trounce steroid-mangled freaks in video games. Of course lots of girls and women like sci-fi/fantasy as well. I can understand why girls and women might want a fantasy escape from the reality of menstruation, childbirth and being physically weaker than most men they meet. But a more feminized version of glamorous escape from reality seems to be the layouts in fashion magazines. And although my brain is half masculine I find it very hard to relate to the desire to escape the physical world through sci-fi, fantasy and video games.

  11. 31
    Jeremy

    Kitty, I don’t doubt that there’s something to your theories here, especially as pertains to video games. But I don’t think that’s all of it, or even most of it, when it comes to “nerdy” guys and fantasy/sci-fi.

    As a child, I had fairly poor vision and needed thick glasses. And I wondered whether the reason I so often retreated into my imagination was the poorness of my vision. But as an adult, I considered whether I might have had it reversed – whether my vision had developed poorly because my brain was pre-disposed to better-value its insight than its out-sight. Whether it was not that I was “retreating” into my imagination, but rather that my imagination was designed for primacy in my brain, was my lens through which to view and understand reality. This is not something that concrete-oriented personalities will understand.

    An observation – there are people whose temperament is to focus on the external, what they see with their eyes and experience with their senses. And there are people whose temperament is to focus on the internal – what could be, rather than what is. There is a place for both types in society – the latter to invent, innovate, find patterns, and the former to take care of details, produce, and fact-check.

    I’ve often heard fantasy and sci-fi books referred to as “escapism.” But funnily enough, it’s not ever referred to as such by its fans. Only by those concrete-oriented personalities who’ve never really understood it, who can’t slip the bonds of reality into pure imagination. Who see forays into thought and imagination as simply “escape” from what truly matters. What is concrete. What is “real.” Heh. As if most of what they see in front of them did not once exist solely in someone’s imagination.

  12. 32
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “Only by those concrete-oriented personalities who’ve never really understood it, ”
    I’m about as far from a concrete thinker as you can get, and I don’t get the obsession with sci-fi, either. Of course, I’m not into the vampires/zombies/apocalypse monsters, either. And there are plenty of women who are into the latter, particularly “Twilight.” I never understood the “Fifty Shades of Grey” phenomenon, either, largely because the writing was so bad (and I’m a bit of a snob and don’t like populist literature). There is plenty of wonderful, sex-filled writing out there. Anais Nin, for starters.

  13. 33
    Jeremy

    My parents were just over for a back-yard visit. They are abstract-oriented people, far-end of the spectrum. But being oriented to the abstract doesn’t necessarily mean that one is any good at abstract thinking. Particularly outside of one’s natural proclivities. My parents asked my kids what they were reading in school, and when the kids answered with books my parents hadn’t heard of, my parents wondered aloud why the kids were not reading the classics of literature (at ages 12, 10, 8, and 4). Just like when I was growing up, my mother was always disappointed that I wasn’t interested in music like she was, my father disappointed that I wasn’t into art and photography like he was. And both were beyond disappointment – they believed something was wrong, missing, in me because a complete person would naturally love the things they love. How not?

    Sigh. The fact that a person is oriented to the abstract does not make them good at abstract thinking, nor perspective-taking. If my mother can watch old black-and-white films until 2am because she appreciates their depth, even though no one else she knows does….one would think she could understand that other things might also have depth in spite of the fact that she is one of the masses who can’t intuitively see that depth…..right Emily? I don’t need to see infrared or ultraviolet light to know it exists. I can understand why my son loves baseball even though I do not. I don’t need to denigrate it, nor revolve theories around it based on my own world view, nor try to convince him to like what I like because what I like is somehow “better.”

  14. 34
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “The fact that a person is oriented to the abstract does not make them good at abstract thinking, nor perspective-taking.”
    Well, they may not be abstract thinking in the way that you appreciate. I don’t have a dog in this fight. Sci-fi is something I can take or leave, though I do really like the first 2 Alien movies, particularly the first one.
    “If my mother can watch old black-and-white films until 2am because she appreciates their depth, even though no one else she knows does…”
    I should be hanging out with your parents! I’m serious. We would have so much to talk about. 🙂 I love black and white movies. Does she like silent pictures, too?

  15. 35
    Kitty

    Me too Emily. I suspect you and I would be good friends if we met in real life; we have a lot of common interests.

  16. 36
    Kitty

    Jeremy, my husband loves sci-fi and fantasy and he’s a self-acknowledged weirdo-nerd, as am I. I’m introspective myself and far from detail oriented. This is just a matter of taste. If you moved the basic Stars Wars plot to a real world historical empire (like the Ottomans, Ghengis Khan or Rome) I’d like it much better. I realize that flying in space and using magic weapons is inspiring to some people but I’m not of them. An unfolding rose or an ocean wave inspires me more than any kind of sword. And I don’t “need” to denigrate Star Wars just because I think the characters are rather one note, as often the case in action movies. I just get so sick of hearing about how great Star Wars is all the time and so sick of explaining why I don’t want to watch the latest expansion of Star Wars cinematic empire. Anyway given how massively popular Star Wars I know I’m the weirdo here. Anyone who’d rather watch “The City of Sylvia” than Star Wars is definitely a rare bird

  17. 37
    Michelle

    @Jo, completely agree and loved your clap back with YAG. I have a sneaking suspicion YAG is not getting much action, is much older, of average looks, height and income (at best) and living out his fantasy alternate reality behind his keyboard in his mothers garage. His posts are usually slightly defensive, grandiose, petulant and slightly misogynistic. Like the the guy the pretty girls never paid attention to in high school and he’s still sore about it 40 years later.

  18. 38
    jo

    Haha, thanks, Michelle. I completely agree with your characterisation of his comments here and in other threads, especially the defensiveness against women that crosses the line into misogyny. There isn’t one shred of love – let alone liking, basic camaraderie, friendship, or simple respect – in his comments about women. It’s as if he sees us as the enemy, or as targets (if hot) or castaways (if not). Very disrespectful.

  19. 39
    Emily, to

    Kitty,
    “Me too Emily. I suspect you and I would be good friends if we met in real life; we have a lot of common interests.”
    It’s ironic to me. Whenever Jeremy describes his parents, they sound perfect to me. I would love to talk about literature and old movies with my family. I would literally pay money to be able to feel I had some commonality with them. Instead, we talk about gravy on the turkey. But he should hang out with my family … who would LOVE to have a detailed sci-fi discussion … and are stuck with me. 🙂

  20. 40
    Jeremy

    But here’s the thing, Em: It’s no special relationship skill to be able to talk with someone about something you yourself enjoy. To be a person who loves art and to talk with someone who also loves art. The skill is to learn to talk about things that the person you love enjoys, because you love that person. Not that thing. And the higher level of that skill is to build some modicum of knowledge about the thing BECAUSE you love the person.

    I might not love photography. But I know about apertures and shutter speeds, film sizes and grains. I’ve used developers, played with darkroom chemicals. I might not love my mother’s music, but I’ve heard her perform many times and know the songs she likes. I might not like baseball, but I watch it with my son, cheer with him when his team wins the game. It might be true and valid for me to stand on my rights and tell all of those people that I shouldn’t have to do those things because I don’t intuitively enjoy them. But standing on rights doesn’t make for good relationships, and I enjoy the good relationships.

    No one would believe that a person was a weirdo for not liking Star Wars. Frankly, women who don’t like Star Wars are about as rare as Catholics in a church. But in terms of effort expended, is it better to be constantly explaining why one shouldn’t have to watch the thing their partner enjoys, or is it better to occasionally watch it so as to better bond with that partner? Provided, of course, that the favour is returned. Is that not what you’re complaining about, Emily?

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