How to Find a Guy on Online Dating Sites

You go online and browse through men. You know what you’re attracted to: six feet tall, Master’s degree, six-figure income, same religion, and political beliefs, fit, handsome. You set your search criteria to get all these traits and come to the conclusion that dating sites suck and there are virtually no men out there on a conventional dating site. You then conclude that the better path is to go on Tinder, Hinge, or Bumble because at least there are cute guys on there. And there are, but the experience invariably sucks. What’s a girl to do? Stick around and I’ll explain to you how your way of searching is killing your chances of meeting Mr. Right.

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Comments:

  1. 161
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “We can only communicate our wants and needs as best we can. Our family members will either hear us or they won’t. Yours likely won’t.”
    Yes. Exactly.
    “And to seek what you need elsewhere.”
    Yes, but what do you do if that is not family (who you can keep a distance from if you need to) but a spouse or serious partner? I’m not sure you can rectify that. I was reading a post about friendship the other day on a woman’s blog who wrote that if her close friends are going through a tough time, she’ll ask, “How can I show up for you?” I about feel over. That’s absolutely extraordinary for someone to even recognize there are different ways of showing up, let alone be able to articulate it. Now, whether or not she can deliver is something you would have to ask the friends, but it kind of made me want to send in an 8×10 glossy and an application to be her friend. 🙂

  2. 162
    Jeremy

    Huh. Shows how everyone is different. What I most ideate is not having to explain to someone how and when to show up, but to have them simply know. Which, btw, is not at all unreasonable in a relationship, friendship, or otherwise, that is longstanding. The asking takes so much away for me, adds a dimension of responsibility and guilt, and removes much of the validation. It’s like programming a robot and watching it run the program. But that’s just me, and I understand I’m difficult.

  3. 163
    Emily, to

    Jeremy,
    “Huh. Shows how everyone is different. What I most ideate is not having to explain to someone how and when to show up, but to have them simply know. Which, btw, is not at all unreasonable in a relationship, friendship, or otherwise, that is longstanding.”
    That’s ironic. When I’ve written that I don’t like to instruct a man about what I like sexually, that having to guide someone through it kills it, you have asked, “How is he supposed to just know?” In a longstanding relationship, I guess you would know how the other person needs you to show up. However, if that person isn’t doing what you need or if what you need has changed, you need to be able to communicate that instead of sulking in resentment (the universal you). I hate when people sulk. Sometimes you don’t even know you’ve pissed them off. But in a friendship — might be a relatively new friendship — one of the friends might be going through the first crisis they’ve experienced during that friendship. The other friend might not know what the other person needs. I think it would be wonderful to ask. No one has EVER asked me. If one doesn’t ask, one is just plowing through with what one had done for other people. Seems emotionally clod-like. 🙂

  4. 164
    jo

    Jeremy wrote: ‘Men’s truth – the truth that I told my wife after she told me her own truth, years ago: 1) I have no interest at all in having sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with me. 2) I have no interest at all in being married to someone who doesn’t want to have regular sex with me (no matter what else she might do).’

    I don’t see why these have to be the only two options. Specifically, I don’t see why another option wouldn’t be to make an effort to please her more in bed – find out what she likes, mix it up, give her more of what she wants. Especially after finding out that she has been unhappy in the status quo.

    Are some men allergic to the notion of attempting to please their wives in bed? Why? That’s so counterproductive if men want willing partners, and on top of that shows such a lack of caring.

    1. 164.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Your presumption is that the reason she doesn’t want to have sex is that HE’s not doing a good enough job. That’s what this whole thread is about: your default assumption that if there is a problem, it’s on him to fix it and she is absolved of responsibility. So try taking this leap. He’s AMAZING in bed; she has no interest in sex and articulates this clearly. What is he to do? If you throw this back on him AGAIN (he must be showing up in a way that turns her off so she’s completely justified in cutting off sex) I will know you are not actually engaging in this thought experiment but rather assuming that the woman is always right and justified no matter what hypothetical scenario is posed. (If she cheats, it’s not a lack of character on her part; it must be something HE has done to make her cheat, etc.)

  5. 165
    jo

    Evan, why would you write such a passionate ad hominem response? How would you know what I thought or didn’t think? Please read what I actually wrote. I asked why the third option wasn’t on the table. You are the one who spun an exaggeration out of that.

    Not to mention: who is to be the judge of whether a man or a woman is ‘AMAZING in bed’? Not you. Not me. Surely the only relevant judge would be that person’s partner.

    The constant reflexive defense of Jeremy’s comments without considering the women’s perspective – including assuming that any woman thinks she’s always correct instead of simply putting out ideas for people to consider – may not be the best way to present, if the desire is to show oneself as a sympathetic (or empathetic) coach.

    1. 165.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I am not trying to present as anything. Never have. Never will. If my primary job were to tell men how blind they are in their interactions with women, you’d be cheering me along. But since my primary function is to shine the light in women’s blind spots, you bristle. I defend Jeremy because Jeremy has the greatest understanding of what it takes to have a successful marriage of my regular commenters. He gets it and often says what I’d say, if I had the patience. Since you STILL don’t get it, I’ll disengage and encourage you to, as well. If you don’t like the food I’m serving, you are more than free to find a different restaurant to frequent – maybe one that customizes its menu to your personal taste. After all, the customer is always right.

  6. 166
    Jeremy

    Jo, I’d certainly agree with you that if the problem was that the man was not pleasing his wife in bed, and if she’d informed him that this was the case, made suggestions, and had him make no effort, it would certainly be understandable that she’d lose interest. But based on my readings on the subject (from a time when I did a lot of reading on this subject), this simply isn’t the case most of the time. Oh, it may well be true that the woman isn’t enjoying herself physically, but rarely does she let the man know (because women are often socialized to not rock the boat), and even more rarely will she make any concrete improvements or suggestions on her own. Mrs Happy once wrote a post about how women are raised to believe that a man should just know what to do. They believe that if he doesn’t know, he’ll never really know, and it’ll never really be good with him. And that having to teach him removes much of the validation from it. (which makes one wonder why they marry such men so eagerly and have sex with them so eagerly in the beginning with no complaint or reduction in frequency, eh?) I’ve read numerous accounts from sex therapists about how a big part of their job is teaching women to get in touch with their own sexuality, because often they don’t even know where to begin when it comes to their own pleasure. How ever would they expect a man to know?

    That said, your paragraph makes the assumption that the problem is a lack of physical pleasure. I’ve often had this argument with Sylvana, who often made the same assumption. But the assumption is often wrong. Sexual accelerators, sexual brakes. Wherein lies the problem? If the problem is that her brakes are on, the solution is to add comfort. Which a man will rarely do if the problem was a lack of comfort, because the whole problem from the get-go was that he didn’t care to give her enough comfort. But if there’s lots of comfort and the problem is a lack of arousal, that doesn’t necessarily mean she isn’t having orgasms. Again, I’ve read accounts from sex therapists who report that once their female clients are having sex, they often remember that they like it. But when they aren’t having it, they don’t remember. It’s just not on their radar. Too many other things on the radar. They just don’t get what they wanted out of sex like they used to, often because they already got as much as they ever could out of it long ago. And what they wanted often isn’t just pleasure. The problem is not simple.

    Regardless of this, it is the woman’s responsibility to get over this, and it is her husband’s responsibility to help her. In that order. The onus is not on the man to both intuit the problem and solve it entirely on his own. There’s little way he can.

  7. 167
    jo

    Evan, for all the energy of your reply, you did not answer my very logical question to Jeremy. Not that it’s your responsibility to do so, but you do tend to jump in defending him when women challenge him. I can’t help thinking that if anyone else had written Jeremy’s comment #155 – say his name was Ted – your reaction to Ted would have been exactly the same as mine: ‘Uh, why did this guy leave out an obvious alternative that is not an ultimatum, and doesn’t constrain her to forced sex and pretending to enjoy it so as not to rock the family boat? Namely, why doesn’t he have a conversation with her about what would please her more? Does he not care about her pleasure?’

    Yes, the onus is on him, because he’s the one who wants sex more. It makes no sense that he shouldn’t care that she may be unhappy or even suffering physical pain, just so he can get his pleasure. As Sylvana wrote earlier, if sex is such a be-all-end-all for men, then men should start trying to make it a be-all-end-all for women too. She also made a great point that, for all the angry blustering on the other thread, no man attempted to address: that if a man threatens to take away everything if a wife doesn’t want sex, and gets angry if it’s even suggested that he might try to please her better, then how does this make her any different from a whore with a nicer title? Heck, it’s even more than that – she’s doing all this extra work to make the household run too, as stated in another thread with which you agreed!

    If men don’t address this elephant in the room, then women will question ever more why they should bother getting married (at least, to men). I’m not saying this trying to attack or pinpoint anyone, but neutrally – just stating what a lot of women are thinking, feeling, and wondering. All the online shouting won’t cover up that this question hasn’t been addressed with any degree of sympathy. It just feels like an attempt to shout women into submission.

  8. 168
    Jeremy

    I wrote a long rebuttal, and erased it. I am disengaging. This is circular and very frustrating.

  9. 169
    jo

    Jeremy, it appears that all our comments got posted en masse, so no one read others’ newer ones before writing their own. I did not see your latest comments before posting mine. I do appreciate your comments and understand your points. In reply: Mrs Happy and I (and many of our friends) have shared negative experiences of trying to express to our partners what we wanted, and their reaction was angry and defensive and resulted in no change. Maybe it was an ego thing: they felt we weren’t allowed to express that we weren’t aroused and suggesting something different. Across the board, it never worked. So it’s not that women haven’t tried to share what we want. When we have, we’ve been shut down angrily, we’re afraid to try again, and nothing changes. Of course other women may have never spoken up over a lifetime, but how common are they?

    Like you, I will disengage, but the reason is that the problem is so much more systemic that we can’t solve it in a few convos. It has to do with so many social stupidities surrounding sex – shaming of it, egos attached to it, unwillingness to talk but over-willingness to lurk in different contexts – that we’d have to shift ALL of society for there to be meaningful effects that trickle down to individual couples. From women’s perspective: we get egged on in romance since age 2, but shamed in a million horrific ways if we dip our toe in to anything to do with sex, the only ways we’re ‘allowed’ to engage are predetermined by a society that hasn’t cared about women’s pleasure, and when we try to explore and talk about our desires, we’re shut down, so we stop trying.

    Yes, it has to change. Maybe conversations (lots) here and there will bring about eventual change, but we have a long way to go.

  10. 170
    Jeremy

    I’ve probably told this joke before, so stop me if you’ve heard it: “What do you do when you find yourself locked out of the house? – Talk to the lock. Because we all know, communication is the key.”

    I love that joke. Because, like all good jokes, it speaks to a deeper truth. There is this notion floating around in the ether that the solution to the ills of the world is communication. If we have more conversations surrounding a thing, that will eventually lead to better understanding. But truthfully, the most bitter wars in history were fought between opponents who really, truly understood each other. They just couldn’t agree. The key is not communication or willingness to listen. It’s willingness to change. To accommodate. To compromise and meet the other person half-way. Without that, all the listening in the world is worth exactly nothing.

    I would tell you, and any woman, that if you express your desires to a man and he shuts you down, that man is likely not a good partner (assuming your desires were reasonable). I think that good men are willing and eager to listen to women’s truth….as long as that truth is spoken in a way and at a time that is fair. For example, if a woman were to tell a man BEFORE the wedding that she isn’t really into sex and ideates a marriage wherein she will rarely have it (and is ok with him having affairs) – and knowing this about her, the guy agrees to marry her…..well then she was honest and he knew what he was getting into. But telling him that 10 years and 3 kids after the wedding, having never made an issue of it before and now uprooting all the understandings of the marriage and expecting things to continue…..that just isn’t reasonable. It’s not about unwillingness to hear the truth, it’s that the truth is really, really ugly. That she is willing to use the man for what she wants, but not willing to give back what he wants, having already got the bulk of what she wanted from him, irrevocably. Men will listen to the communication, will really hear the woman….and then check out of the marriage, emotionally or physically. Not because they didn’t hear the truth, but because they did.

    My point was not to shut down women who express their desires. My point to women was that you can’t stop doing what men want, tell men it’s their fault, and then expect men to continue doing what you want (and blame men when they don’t want to). It is hypocritical. It might be how a woman feels, but if it’s how she acts, she’s acting like a child (which is exactly how she’d see a man if he acted that way). You can’t tell men that love is the giving of the self and the doing for the other, and then tell men that you don’t want to do any of that for him but you still love him. It may be how you feel, but it’s bullshit.

  11. 171
    M

    So much projection going on

    Because your assumed wife behaved dishonestly then that means all women do?
    If what you say is true and since we are only hearing one side and since this is the internet I will have to take it with a grain of salt- then leave no one is forcing you to stay married. And if all the horrible things you say about your wife are true why would want to stay married to her?
    Your tremendous ego won’t allow you to admit you were duped. Pure and simple. Instead you will stay married that’ll show her who’s boss. The only ones who suffer in this are kids.

  12. 172
    ScottH

    Lively debate I ‘ve missed here.
    The talk of women refusing to have sex with their husband catches my attention since it was my plight before divorce. I thought I would interject some of Kalas’s amazing words here on the topic.
    “The deliberate withholding of sex in marriage is no little thing. It’s huge. It’s consequential. I could even make an argument that it is hostile. Cruel. To render marriage sexless is to fundamentally change the marriage contract. Of course, I would affirm that no one should ever have sex they don’t want to have; but, when you find you don’t want to have sex with your spouse, then I would say you have a responsibility to explore that reluctance, to fix it, to bring every effort to the goal of healing whatever needs to be healed so that thriving sexual courtship might resume as soon as possible. Ten years into a marriage, it’s OK to quit your mate’s bowling team and reveal that you’ve never really liked bowling and to tell your mate he/she will henceforth have to enjoy bowling individually. But try to deliver that same speech about sex, and you’ll find it’s a little different.”

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