Do Men Like Bitches Or Nice Girls?

Do Men Like Bitches Or Nice Girls?
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Evan,

When it comes to dating, what do you think works best for attracting a man — and making him want to commit? In the world of dating advice, there are two opposite schools of thought on the subject: one is coming from the likes of Sherry Argov’s “Why Men Love Bitches” where the “nice girls” get passed over the more edgy, less giving women; and the other is from Tracy McMillan’s “Why You Are Not Married”, proclaiming that kindness gets you to the altar and the “nice girls” finish first with the ring on their left hand. Example (one of many) is that cooking for a man is a sign of caring and nurturing from McMillan’s point of view, whereas it’s a number one sign of a doormat from the Argov’s. In your experience, what works?

—Stephanie

Dear Stephanie,

I’m thrilled that you asked this. Honestly.

Because you’ve outlined the central dilemma that most of my smart, strong, successful clients face: should I be a bitch or a nice girl? What works better? What do men like? What if I’m naturally one way? Should I try to be the other?

These questions are all completely misguided.

The people who are happily married all figured out which trade-offs were worth it. The people who have not figured out their tradeoffs still struggle.

They reduce female behavior to a binary choice, when, in fact, behavior can never be compared to an either/or proposition.

We see fallacies like that all the time on this blog.

When I tell you to dial down chemistry, it becomes: “Oh, so I should go out with someone who is entirely unattractive to me?”

When I tell you that if you have your own money, you don’t need a man to make more than you, it becomes, “Oh, so I should find myself some slacker deadbeat who can’t support himself?”

Sorry, but the world is grey and these are weak straw-man arguments that women use to defend why they need a man who is taller, smarter, richer, funnier, etc. Except it’s simply not true. Men don’t need women who are taller, smarter, richer and funnier, and the fact that women think they do — as if anything else is “settling” — is the main source of the problem. The people who are happily married all figured out which trade-offs were worth it. The people who have not figured out their tradeoffs still struggle.

So here’s the deal, Stephanie.

Argov’s book doesn’t tell women to be “bitches”. It tells them to have boundaries, so as to avoid the fate of all the women who read “He’s Just Not That Into You”.

If you have boundaries, you won’t sleep with a guy until he’s exclusive.
If you have boundaries, you won’t stay with him for four months without being his girlfriend.
If you have boundaries, you let him know how he disappointed you and how he can please you better, instead of silently stewing that he unknowingly mistreated you.

This is basic assertiveness — and this is what prevents you from being a doormat.

Remember, men are about feelings. How we feel around you determines whether we want to stick around for life.

NONE of this prevents you from following the McMillan “Why You’re Not Married” model (which I wrote about in my 2006 book, “Why You’re Still Single”).

She and I (and pretty much every good, sane man on the planet) agree that the best way to a man’s heart is to treat him well. Support his dreams. Accept his flaws. Laugh at his jokes. Let him be himself. Cook him dinner. Give him oral sex. We’re really not all that complicated, y’know.

Anyone who tells you that this will make you a doormat (as opposed to the perfect wife), has absolutely no understanding of what makes men tick.

Remember, men are about feelings. How we feel around you determines whether we want to stick around for life.

I can assure you that if you interpreted the Argov book to mean “don’t support his dreams, don’t accept his flaws, don’t laugh at his jokes, don’t let him be himself, don’t cook him dinner, don’t give him oral sex,” you’ve got it 100% wrong.

And if you want a shorter way to get the formula right, let’s consider what it takes for a man to do well with women.

You don’t want a weak, needy, bland man.
You don’t want a raging, difficult, selfish asshole.

You want a nice guy with balls.

We don’t want a weak, needy, bland woman.
We don’t want a raging, difficult, selfish bitch.
We want a nice girl with boundaries.

That about sums it up, doesn’t it?

Join our conversation (140 Comments).
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Comments:

  1. 81
    PeterJames

    Why does anyone even ask such a question, it’s loony!

    Of course all men like nice girls – bitches, at best, and if hot, sometimes give you appetite to f**k them, just to shut them up (and maybe feel dominant and justified in it).

    I’m sure it’s the same with women – they all like good blokes, except for wanting to tame or convert the bad guy (if he is hot).

  2. 82
    Ruby

    I’m so totally confused. Who I am, the way I am wired and what is intuitive to me regarding men is apparently completely counter to what will result in a successful, loving, mutually respectful relationship. I have so much love in my heart, I’m reasonably attractive, I love really naughty sex even though I naturally carry myself as a ‘good girl’. But I’m also guileless. And according to my experience, books and dating columns, being open about my feelings, calling him if I want to without letting him take the lead, are absolutely the wrong thing to do and will result in failure, being used and taken for granted. After a painful six-year relationship held up by lies (not mine!) that I have finally decided I can no longer endure, I’ve met a man I’m crazy about but who is at a crossroads in his life as far as his work (prestigious job as a road guy for an A-list touring rock band, the unique nature of which has virtually not practically allowed him to be in a relationship). From all of our interactions over a short period of six days – conversational, physical, and emotional – he seems to me to be really into me as well. I made the mistake of telling him that I could love him and he balked a little because he feels that he simply can’t have a serious relationship right now given the high demands of his job, though he told me that he could very easily fall in love with me. By the end of our short, passionate, incredible time together, he told me he would absolutely  be getting in touch with me, and as painful as it is waiting for him to contact me in his own time, I have – counter to my natural way – not texted or called him so that he could be the one to take the lead in this. But a male friend today told me after the two and a half weeks it’s been so far (the band just very recently wrapped a leg of their tour and are now on break), that if this man were crazy about me he would have called by now; that he should have called by now. Normally, I might then just send him a short, casual text to just say a really non-committal ‘hey, how was the tour?’, but my sister and friends are all saying ‘DO NOT contact him!!!’ Again, I’m reading relationship books and columns to figure out what to do because whatever it is I WANT to do is apparently totally WRONG. I *really* like this man. We’re both not exactly young, we’ve both been through divorce(s), we’re really compatible in many fundamental ways, and we both recognize that fact…I don’t want to mess things up more than I might already have by being too open about my feelings earlier on, but I feel like I’m flying blind and having so much advice and alarming opinions from well-meaning friends is freaking me out. This is going to sound bad but I actually don’t click with a lot of people, so the fact I that he and I clicked so incredibly well, in temperament, personality, likes, humor, and sexual energy, makes me feel like he and I could be a truly good match. But I’m a nice, unconditionally loving girl, which is apparently poison for a fulfilling relationship…..

  3. 83
    Ruth

    Just be authentic. We are all both the ‘nice girl’ and the ‘bitch’ deep down. People just want to see the authenticity in others, which comes out anyway. If you are ‘nice’ yet present as passive aggressive over something…just let that so-called ‘bitch’ out who says what she truly wants. Authenticity is what creates the connection we desire, along with a balance of self love and love for the other. Both are natural when you are honouring your authenticity. Show up!

  4. 84
    James

    Well if there are men that like bitchy women which makes them Losers as well.

  5. 85
    Xiaolu

    Evan got it so right. Thank you for this amazing share! 😊👍

    I believe the term ‘bitches’ doesn’t have to always mean selfish, mean, needy, superficial sluts. It can mean girls/women who are sexy hot but also knows their boundaries and being independent and understanding. I don’t believe that Men Love Bad Girls crap. Deeply no!

  6. 86
    Art

    Literally my biggest peeve is a bitchy girl. I didn’t even have to read the article. If a woman is being a bitch to me, I’m out faster than a fucking cheetah. No time for that shit. I have enough on my plate as it is, I don’t have the will to deal with that kind of stress.

    I have an unfortunate altruistic nature, meaning I like to help people, especially those I care about. Last “woman” I dated, she’d belittle me for my small acts of kindness and do all sorts of other shady shit that really put some perspective into my life. There’s no way in hell I can change my nature, but I sure can filter out the majority of assholes out there who take me for granted. That includes bitchy women who don’t seem to appreciate who I am at face value.

  7. 87
    Czop

    Sex with my husband on the first date. 32 years and two grow kids still sex after every date,lol! Hows them boundaries? ??

  8. 88
    Courtney

    “Support his dreams. Accept his flaws. Laugh at his jokes. Let him be himself. Cook him dinner. Give him oral sex.” Check, check, check, check, check, and check… Yet I’m still told insincere things and taken for granted. You can do all of these things and truly love a man… and that will seemingly end in a non-reciprocal relationship more often than not.

  9. 89
    sjs

    Nicely said, Evan!

    Ladies, dont confuse being “nice” with being a “pleaser”.   I think this is what is happening when women say they get rejected by being, what they call, too “nice”.

    Nice is demeanor. A display of who YOU choose to be, independent of anyone. Yes, “nice” has boundaries and often social grace. In fact, “nice” used to mean proper behavior.   It was not necessarily “kindness”, though often proper behavior was kind behavior.

    Anyway, thats nice. A pleaser is different.

    Being a pleaser is a needy demeanor. Its who you are choosing to be for HIM, not you….in the hopes he will like you. And its a turn-off!

    Its not really the “bitch” guys love. Its the nice girl showing who she is and exerting her boundaries….over and over and over again.

    Here’s a great story!

    My guy came over after us being together for 9 months, unannounced after 10pm. I HATE unplanned interruptions after 10pm! He knows this, but things has gotten intimate and comfortable (a good thing), but here came the push.

    Him: (knocking)

    Me: (answered) What’s going on? (I certainly want to make sure its not a crisis)

    Him: Nothing. I wanted to see you. You didnt answer you phone.

    Me: You arent dying?

    Him: (a bit surprised) No.

    Me: Shot?

    Him: (laughed) No.

    Me: Being hunted by a bounty hunter?

    Him: (Stares) Babe, I…

    Me: Its after 10pm.

    Him: I know, I…..

    Me: Please me in the morning. (quick kiss) (closed door)

    The next day I got flowers at work. Then I got taken out to dinner on the weekend, and given beautiful diamond studded earrings!

    He is a good man. And he still pushed my boundaries. I expect he will again.

    No where in this story was I a bitch. I was a nice girl, being very nice, honoring my rules and boundaries. He was free to respond anyway he wanted.

    Just so you understans, a pleaser would have let him in.

    Good luck, ladies!

  10. 90
    Shawna

    Sherry Argov can go suck   a brick in my honest opinion. I’d never take Advice from her. I’m   a nice girl. I’m NOT sorry. I refuse to be ANY OTHER way!!! Only good MEN appreciate GOOD women if they have the self esteem for it. I stick with my type. My type is the KIND, GOOD LOOKING, strong but gentle GOOD MAN who’s tired of the ‘bad girl’ Jezebel   and wants TRUE romance with the RIGHT kind of girl that will last til the Good Lord calls us both home.

  11. 91
    Fred Zup

    The reason nobody is marrying and relationships are failing is due to this way women behave. They will almost always end up with the bastards. Good men will remain single.

  12. 92
    Sarah

    Know thy self first

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