I’m Dating A Passive Beta Male. Is His Behavior Normal?

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Hi Evan,

I love your blog and Why He Disappeared. It can be a tough pill to swallow at times, but I appreciate your no-nonsense advice. I’ve had to learn the hard way, that my “go-getter” attitude does not translate well in the dating world. Not doing anything in the beginning stages of dating tends to drive me crazy.

I’ve been dating a beta-male for about a month and a half. He’s a total sweetheart and for the first time in a long time, I feel very safe. He’s kind, attentive and affectionate- when we’re together. He communicates with me daily, mostly through text message, to which I always respond warmly.

Here’s where I’m struggling: I find myself wanting to take over and take control with him sometimes (planning things mostly). I am resisting this urge as I’m trying out your mirroring concept.

My question: We’re texting everyday, but he’ll wait FOREVER, (in actuality, 5-7 days) before asking to see me again. What gives? Is this a downside of dating a typical beta (i.e., no initiative) or is he just not that interested in me? Do I continue to utilize patience or should I move on?

Thanks, Evan!
-Michelle  

Dear Michelle,

Thanks for reading “Why He Disappeared — The Smart, Strong, Successful Woman’s Guide to Understanding Men and Keeping the Right One Hooked Forever”. Glad it turned on a few light bulbs in helping you realize how a few of your behaviors have been ineffective in forging a relationship with a man.

But I have to say that if I had to write the whole thing again, I would have taken a few pages to put in a caveat:

This advice doesn’t work for every single woman in every single situation with every single guy. Basically, WHD was written for alpha females who want to date alpha males. It was a way to open your eyes about how the men you’re the MOST attracted to don’t necessarily want to date you in return.

While you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

And in the absence of giving yourself an entire personality-ectomy, the smartest thing you can do is a) be aware of some of your tendencies to dominate and b) find a partner who is cool with them.

You, apparently, have done both of those things, Michelle.   But while you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

Take charge guys are the ones who will always follow up quickly, make plans, make the first move, and claim you as their girlfriends.

Beta guys are the ones who have more kindness than confidence. They’re not nearly as assertive. They’re so passive as to be, well, almost feminine in nature. They are not going to put themselves on the line for rejection until it’s 100% clear that you like them. They would sooner wait to get a written notice in the mail that you’re really, truly interested in them than to follow up too much and potentially make you uncomfortable.

Is any of this hitting home, my friend?

So you’re not wrong to curb a little bit of that domineering side. Where you’ve gone astray is that when you’re with a beta male, you’re ALLOWED to be more alpha. “Doing nothing” as I describe in WHD works with take-charge guys because those guys don’t need you to take charge. Your new guy DOES.

The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

So instead of extrapolating my advice to apply to every man, make an adjustment based on the man you’re actually dating. The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

When you’re done reading this, give him a call to find out if he’s around this weekend. You’d like to cook him dinner. I suspect that’s all you’ll need to seduce him into becoming your boyfriend. And if, in fact, he’s just not that into you, you’ll figure that out quickly, too.

For all of the women who are reading this who would not be able to tolerate such behavior from your guy and prefer a take-charge man, do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of “Why He Disappeared”. You’ll be very glad you did.

Join our conversation (212 Comments).
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Comments:

  1. 101
    ThisGuy

    This whole Alpha/Beta thing is kind of funny and, I think, a bit simplistic and incorrect for the most part.

    It sounds more like the guy is interested but doesn’t want to put in a huge amount of effort for whatever reason. And that sounds a bit more Alpha, right? (If I have to use those terms) Isn’t not giving a fuck more of an Alpha thing?

    Or maybe he’s just busy, lazy about you, not that interested, his grandma died, he’s talking to multiple women, he doesn’t want to spend the money, he’d rather get stoned, he’d rather play squash? The truth is, you don’t know him well enough to know why.

    Anyway, though. If you want the guy to make plans, etc. and he doesn’t, then don’t go out with him. I would just say it’s not a good match rather than using these very odd terms of Alpha & Beta.

    The way this post, the comments and, I assume, this website paint the Alpha male, is as an outgoing guy, who has his life together, has a career, takes the initiative to plan things, and makes moves sexually. That’s not an Alpha/Beta thing, it’s just dating 101. It’s a Man/Woman thing.

    What the author, Evan, is doing here is trying to boost the woman’s self-esteem and help women convince themselves they are attracted to men who act the way they’d like a man to act, a way that makes them feel good. And that’s great! By thinking the guy who doesn’t make plans is a “beta”, it helps you view him as weak and less attractive. And that makes it easier for you to move on. In that case, you left because he wasn’t good enough, not because you weren’t good enough for him. And that’s also good. The less insecurity there is out there, the better for everyone.

    But, don’t get too wrapped up in the Alpha/Beta thing. Honestly, it’s nonsense. People are just people. Rise above the bullshit and you’ll be ok. Just think about what you want, what you want to give and take it on a case by case basis.

  2. 102
    Mermaid

    To the OP.. He’s just not that interested. He probably has several women on the go and picks the best offer on the table Meanwhile keeping you on the hook. If he was really into you, he would be proposing living together or marriage by now not wanting to let you slip away. i think you are wasting your precious time with this man if you plan on having children.

  3. 103
    rickyzg

    Oh people are you all deluded, there isn’t such thing as beta, alpha, gama, omega, zeta. There is only :   Baby, Boy, Man.   If he doesn’t become man   is some respective older years then he is still boy. If someone likes boy be with a boy, if not find a man.

  4. 104
    Amanda

    This is a really helpful article, as it sounds exactly like the new guy in my life. While I’m not interested in someone who’s super aggressive, I have puzzled by his affectionate but somewhat cautious behavior. I’ll just go and see how it feels.  

  5. 105
    Dan

    I’m a beta male, and I can give you some advice.

    First, don’t change yourself, and don’t figure on him changing:
    He is who he is, don’t figure on making him become more outgoing or more assertive. And maybe he’s looking for an alpha female. Be yourself, if you’re outgoing then keep being outgoing. That might be what he finds appealing in you. If he has a habit that you don’t like and you force him to change it, it will only be temporary. The real him will come out again months or years later, and he’ll hold it against you that you tried to change him. If it’s that big of a deal, maybe he’s not the right one for you.

    Don’t assume, just ask:
    If you have any questions, just ask him. Don’t sit there and worry and think to yourself “What if he doesn’t really like me?” “Should I be passive or assertive?” Just bring it up and ask him.

    Make the first move:
    If you want to go out more often, ask him out. I’ve been in many relationships where we’ll go out once or twice, but it seems like she isn’t that interested so it just stops and that’s it. Beta males don’t put in the effort if it seems like it’s not going to go anywhere. Show interest in him, and he’ll probably show it back. (I know, females expect to be pursued, but it doesn’t work that way with a beta male.)

  6. 106
    Adam

    I have no idea on Earth, how I ended up here, but I cannot deny how fascinated I am with all the relationship dynamics being expressed here. I feel compelled to share an outsiders observation with all. The single most fundamental flaw that I have tracked down in every single one of the debates is that everyone makes assumptions and everyone draws opinionated conclusions. How about this for old fashioned sake; honesty across the board. The biggest disconnect in these relationships are communication flaws. If you are unsure, do not attempt to apply an inevitably flawed algorithm to human nature or intent; just ask. It takes courage to inquire in zones of discomfort, but I garuntee, the honesty works wonders and builds character. Everyone wins,   everyone gets clarity, and people will acquire valuable insight into human nature that will enrichen our understanding of one another.

    1. 106.1
      Karmic Equation

      You’re a good man, Adam. Just packaged a little unconventionally.
        
      Be yourself. The right woman will see right through to the heart of you and love you for who you are, not who you pretend (or wish) you could be.
        
      Ultimately, PUA training is to help men develop confidence to interact with women. While it seems that you lacked confidence in interacting with women, you should NEVER have had any lack of confidence in yourself as a human being. You are a good guy.
        
      Trust that being yourself, your real self, will reach the right woman for you. Women have to kiss a lot of frogs to find her prince. Men don’t mind kissing frogs as long as they get the kissing. And they’re often not looking for their princesses. So the correlating lesson for men is that he might have to be lonely for a while before he finds the woman that will brighten his life.
        
      And I’ll say it again, PUA tactics work best on the wrong kind of women for LTRs. You’ll end up with an insecure, albeit hot woman, who will make your life out of bed miserable.
        
      If you truly want to find love. Be comfortable snuggling up to porn for a while until you meet her.

      1. 106.1.1
        Adam

        Wow Karmic Equation,
        I was not expecting that sort of response, but I welcome the observation. I am not exactly sure what I said that projected my insecurities, but to clarify, my post was relevant to my observation of everyone else’s comments. I agree that I am cut from a different fabric and within that realization, I happen to be very confident.
        In response to the porn comment, I do not recommend that sort of mental destruction to any human. The studies of the effects of porn from a psychological standpoint are overwhelmingly conclusive that our brain chemistry is directly impacted from exposure, along with behavioral, emotions, and psychological habits changing into a never ending battle for stimulation. These alterations drastically effect our perspective of reality and overall, porn is one of the most destructive enemies to mankind.
        I truly feel you are here to offer support and help   others as I am here to offer valuable information as well. Please to not take my response negatively as I mean well. I can not do good in this world if I keep the valuable information to myself, regardless of how others receive the truth, let it be told.

        1. Karmic Equation

          I’m sure you’ve BECOME confident with PUA tactics, just as I’m certain that you were NOT confident before you learned them.

           

          Why? Because confident men attract women. Confidence attracts women like beauty attracts men.

           

          So now that you ARE confident, drop the lies. No more telling girls you have a gf when you don’t have one. The girls who lose interest are the wrong girls to have relationships with anyway. “Who cheats with you will cheat on you.”

           

          Pay attention to the girls who warm up. Those are the quality women you should truly consider for gfs.

           

          But this assumes you really want a gf, and not just notches on your bedpost.

  7. 107
    Josie

    I do not like dating alpha men. A mix is great. I’m also a mix but more beta than alpha. I like 50/50 power in a relationship. I bought Why He Disappeared but I don’t want an alpha so I suppose I should dismiss the advice? Please, Evan, write something for women interested in other than alpha males!

  8. 108
    Adrian

    Josie, you just pointed out the core reason behind everyone who argues with Evan’s advice, both men and women.

    His (as well as mostly all the dating coaches and even the PUA’s) advice is tailored toward women seeking and men who are Alpha. And though I don’t know if the “majority” of women want a Alpha or not…

    I do know that the majority of men are NOT Alpha’s, and this is why so many of the male readers get upset at the advice that Evan and the many others like him are giving to women.

    His advice implies that if men don’t act a certain way toward women or do certain things for women, that we aren’t REAL or Strong men.

    But, being a constant reader of Evan’s site, I know that he isn’t doing it maliciously, which is why, like you Josie, I would love for him to write a dating book for us Beta men.

  9. 109
    Jason

    Why are you dating a beta? Beta’s like us don’t deserve happiness we should be allowed to die off.

  10. 110
    Faith

    Thanks a lot Evan for this article. I have read a handful of articles on dating and relationships but never have i read something like this. I am currently in a confused relationship on how to handle this guy i met two months ago. Obviously he is a Beta male and i never knew it. I have been thinking he is not interested in me. we have even talked about it and he will say he is interested but i have been so confused at his waiting for me to take the lead most times; I used to think its not a manly attitude. i am an alpha female and just trying not to be domineering.

    Thanks for this eye-opener

     

    1. 110.1
      Grace

      I’m in the same boat after more than 2 months. I actually assumed he had other girlfriends since I see him only once every 10-15 days.   I still don’t know his real world, we fought because of his closed personality! I’ve never been in his house, his alibi is he has paid roommates! A 50 year old man cannot entertain in his own home? He texts me all day like clockwork, asked me to be exclusive very early, seems to really like me. Yet on Valentine’s day ignored me other than a text at day’s end.   A few days later he asked to see me. I said No, because you don’t treat me like a priority.   His alibi was, he’d been sick again on the weekend!

       

       

  11. 111
    Kaywise

    I think people get too serious about all these stuff, where does true love stand in all these ? For example, I love being in control I make the decisions in myrelationships then I met this girl and I notice that she doesn’t like the fact I take control of things and she complained about it and said that she’s scared I’m a control freak. From then on I allow her take some decisions and I also make sure we discuss things through before making decisions together, does that make me a beta male ?
    I would say categorising work when u are just in for the fun but if u are looking to settle down and truly love who u are with, u will be ready to make it work and won’t be hell bent on showing what category u are !!

    1. 111.1
      Paul Lane

      You are leading based on her likess too, and every now and then you surprise her with a new place you two have never gone before.

  12. 112
    Paul Lane

    Lol Beta males too funny aka lazy males afriad to make a mistake with a woman, he waits around for her to tell him when she wants to do something, he lets her decide instead of make a choice himself. Just walk in any mall you will see plenty beta males walking three to five steps behind the woman, with her complaining the whole time in front of other people. Why oh why can this sorry excuse of a man make a choice already, she wants to go to dinner with you and she asks you to choose a nice place to go, but like the beta male you are, you pass the choice back to her to decide only to have her pass it right back to you, this dumb stufr goes on for about three rounds befor the female get mad and says forget about I just want to stay home. There you go again ruining what could have been a great night for the both of you, which could have lead to sex.

  13. 113
    Andrew

    so apparently, women are just meant to be passive bystanders in society

  14. 114
    Steve

    My god! This is a horrible site. It propagates myths that somehow “men” should always chase women and “women” should expect that.

    Is this some time warp? Did someone (er, that’s you Eric Marc Katz, love the 3 name thing!) step in here from the 13th century?

    Should I go grab my horse and strap on my sword? Sorry. I’m a modern guy. If I chase a women, great. If she chases me, great. These ‘rules’ that supposedly everyone knows and follows are just for a particular portion of the population. I’m not an alpha and not a beta and I don’t even know what those other greek letters are. I’m a guy, not a letter in an alphabet.

    To all of you who think there is some script that you MUST follow to snag a husband or wife – good for you. Hope it works, really. But please stop with the blanket, all-encompassing statements about men and women please? It’s ridiculous. It should have stopped once everyone left primary/elementary school, because that’s the last time I saw this bullshit being used.

    Grow up Eric.

     

     

     

    1. 114.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      First of all, it’s not called “chasing”. It’s called showing interest. If you want a job, do you expect the employer to reach out to you on your couch and see if you’re interested? No. You apply for a job. And if calling a woman to show interest after each date is too much work for you, well, guess what? There’s another guy who is going to show interest and get the girl while you sit here and spew venom on a site that lets women know that yes, if a man likes you, he’ll call you to see you again, instead of sitting back and waiting for her to call.

      Second of all, your hyperbole doesn’t serve you. Insulting me doesn’t serve you. Invoking swords doesn’t serve you. You’re just venting that an article like this called attention to the fact that, in fact, women don’t like your way of doing things. That your passive approach to pursuit (based on being a modern guy) is just not all that effective. That women, no matter how modern, LIKE it when a guy makes an effort to show his interest. It’s not a show. It’s not over the top. Call her for a date, plan the date, pay for the date, call her after the date to say you’d like to do it again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Somehow, you think that this is from the 1600s. Well, guess what? Guys who do this with confidence are giving women what THEY want – a clear sign of interest, rather than texting, hanging out, making casual overtures and Netflix and chill.

      I didn’t say there is a script that you MUST follow. But I do give best practices – for both women and men. What will work on more women? Sitting back to be pursued or making an effort? How about you go on Match and NOT write to anyone? How about you NOT ask women out when you like them? How about you NOT pay for your early dates? Let me know how it goes. And then come back and tell me that, whether you like it or not, everything I said is true.

      You are a passive man who likes letting women pursue. You will get results consistent with that. Men who take the initiative will simply get better results – in all aspects of life.

      Finally, learn to read, Steve. My name is Evan, not Eric. Says it all over the site.

      Best of luck on your crusade. You probably should hit up every other dating coach on the planet who agrees with me after you’re done here.

  15. 115
    jean

    I am now married.   I have been for 3 yrs and we dated 3 before that.   I read this site religiously while dating and it helped me.   One thing I wanted to say is I married a beta male.   He is loyal and I know he loves me more than anything but I have to frequently tell myself that because he is not in any way a pursuer.   I knew that from the start but he is a good guy.   I am hoppier than I have ever been in a relationship but I still feel like the chaser.   I initiate date nights, family nights, sex every thing.   He thinks he is being kind allowing us to do whatever I want.   He doesn’t buy gifts or do anything spontaneious.   I frequently wonder if he really wants me but I look and it is just him in every aspect of his life,   he is reactive except his hobbies.   He has a hard time making proactive moves with friends though.   I guess my point before I ramble on is if you are dating a beta they may be the most loyal and sweet people but be ok with never feeling ‘chased’ or romanced because it is against their grain.   He is trying in ways because he knows it bother me but it doesn’t feel natural still and I feel unwanted a lot. Wishing you all the success in dating ladies!

  16. 116
    Wally

    All this beta and alpha stuff is a load of crap. Games, waiting certain times to message etc. That’s a bunch of fake shit and for people with no real confidence.

     

    Be yourself. The real you. Be genuine. If someone likes you they like you. If not then fuck them. Calmness is being relaxed will make you confident. You’re not going to get the confidence if you aren’t calm and relaxed. You also have to get out of your comfort zone and as in everyday life you have to take the hits to get success. Get willing to get hit ( hurt and rejected ) in order to get to the good.

     

    Beta, alpha, omega,   fuck off. Load of shit. Here’s a thought, instead of beating around the bush, display some honesty and what you really want/need WHEN   it’s the time for it. After a while, MAKE The time if it’s not happening.

  17. 117
    Candice

    The science and chemistry behind Human Sociology and Psychology should be objectively taught and learned on some level to all people from birth to our passing for this thread to be of much assistance.

    Sadly, that is not what the powers who be choose for our educational system, because ignorance is bliss to the probable and problematic dissenters.

    FACT: Humans are mammalian, predatory, pack scavenging animals who also happen to be tribal and Simian. Learn all there is to know about THAT, and then maybe we can get to the proper perspective and understanding of it ALL.

    Alpha, beta, omega personality types amongst the genders and their various age groups, socio-economic background/origins, race, education, intelligence, ethics, sexuality, etc. Waaay too many divergent factors to be taken into consideration here for accurate answers to be known as opposed to emotionally opinionionated replies.

  18. 118
    My2cents

    I think women are inundated with the message men will move mountains if they are interested. Although it is perpetuated that it’s more socially acceptable for men to pursue based on some alpha man/ hunter/gatherer evolutionary concept, has anyone paused for a moment to question whether or not we’re operating on a flawed ideology? We are also told somewhere second, third, even fourth to this that men can have the same insecurities that women have. Somehow though, the part about insecurities playing any real role in their behavior falls to the wayside when judging what they “should” be doing.

    I agree when you are interested in someone you are compelled to try, whether you are male or female. I also can’t help but think how things are set up for women to want to try, yet they are expected to sit around waiting for the man to suggest everything and direct all movement. Women take   men’s actions in the initiative category as the ultimate measure. Maybe it is as black and white as this and I’m missing the point, but I can’t help but think how often a woman’s actions belie her real feelings. Is it not within the realm of possibilities there are men who do the same thing out of uncertainty? Scoff it you want. I’m just of the belief it is shallow and dismissive to both men and women to think men are somehow incapable of being affected by doubts and women are incapable of affecting men beyond men wanting to hit it and quit it.

    Call me naive. I don’t really care. I’m tired of the paradigm being portrayed that women must leave it up to the man to define everything and her power lies only in   accepting or turning down his definitions.   Frankly, this strikes me as blowing sunshine. It’s convincing women with a pat on the head that the paper tiger is mightier than the real tiger. It also puts all the pressure on men to forge ahead without consideration for their feelings regarding rejection.

    Each person has their own tolerance level for how much they will risk exposing their feelings. This is an individual choice. People need to stop listening to what their tolerance level “SHOULD” be and start listening to what it actually is. Can this result in keeping something on life support? Yes it can. But, guess what? That is what shapes each person and helps them figure out their own tolerance level.

    Perhaps I’m on a mission and should just avoid sites like this because by participating I’m adding to them, but I am beyond tired of all the information out there that tells you how you must be and how ignorant you are about how things are IN YOUR OWN LIFE. Maybe some of the people dispensing their brand of advice have good intentions, maybe they are only in it to make a buck. I don’t know.

    What I do know is there is there is absolutely the power of suggestion, especially when people are in a vulnerable state. It’s very easy to take a message to the extreme. I also have a suspicion the messages are meant to be taken as extreme. This helps to ensure you’ll keep coming back to find out what else is wrong with you that you were simply too clueless to realize. The result is that instead of helping a person figure out some finer points of social interaction, they end up believing everything they do is wrong and will fall under the title of unacceptable behavior.

    What are we left with then? We are left with an even bigger divide between men and women disguised as helping to bridge the gap. It’s an excellent business model, I must say. It plants the doubts in people’s minds that raise the fear that every text message that was supposedly one sentence too long was the nail in the relationship coffin.

    CORRELATIN DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. If the desire to want to get to know someone is there, even if muted by societal pressure and insecurity, all the nit picking minutiae you are told will be the death won’t matter. What WILL matter is that you (man OR woman) took the chance to express yourself and let the chips fall where they may. If you do this you’ll know instead of turning to some third party who will give you their general view instead of you forming your own view FOR YOU.

    How many opportunities were missed before deciding to be the captain of your own ship and to stop buying into this over complication and fear mongering?

    Do your own thing. If it doesn’t work you’ll find out soon enough. Above all, put the damn games and preconceived notions aside. Stop playing victim and buying into the the division tactic the other side holds all the power. Treat the other person how you would like to be treated… that’s the real power. And, put your ego in check and stop crafting an exit strategy to ensure you are the victor before anything even starts.

     

  19. 119
    Lynx

    “I’m tired of the paradigm being portrayed that women must leave it up to the man to define everything and her power lies only in accepting or turning down his definitions.”

    It is a Friday night and I am avoiding my long-term boyfriend, having given him a lame excuse for not getting together. I have been trying to accept a different paradigm in my relationship with this good man, this intelligent and insightful and consistent man who loves me sincerely — but he is so, so passive. He tolerates behavior from me that he should not; I keep him at arm’s length and he accepts it, he takes whatever small amount of time I will give him. He never complains, although I know he cannot like it, I know he wants more time together, wants us to live together, considers me the love of his life. He never objects to anything I suggest, never pushes back, responds to my every suggestion with “okay”.  I’ve broken up with him once, and we were apart for several months, but reunited. As I say, he is a good man with unique traits that I value greatly and know I am unlikely to find again. Is it possible to genuinely love a person for who they are, for their essential being, but decide you cannot be with the person because of their over-obliging way of moving through the world? That sounds crazy, right? How can I complain about a man who is too nice? My family likes him. He is healthy and financially responsible. The sex is great. He’s more fit than many men his age. But, I understand that I cannot change him — his passivity runs so deep, I’ve got to either get over my qualms and accept him for who he is or get out. If I break things off, it will be for good, I won’t keep yo-yo-ing. There’s a fair chance this would be my last shot at a relationship — I’ve read this blog enough to know I’m unwilling to invest the time it would take to find another one. I want to love all of him unconditionally. Why can’t I just be okay with a new paradigm and gladly accept the alpha role?

  20. 120
    Jeremy

    @Lynx, SMH. While this is not your last shot at a relationship, I think it would be wise to consider whether a little mental re-wiring is in order. Whenever I find that healthy food tastes bad, it’s usually because I’ve been eating crap beforehand.

    We all have our preferences and proclivities – some prefer a partner who is fit, well-endowed, wealthy, whatever. Those preferences reduce our dating pool, but don’t directly mean that the partner we hold out for will be a bad one. The only exception to this rule is many women’s insistence on a partner who isn’t too giving – giving being the very quality that makes one a good partner. Shit, it’s like a man developing a taste for women who enjoy kicking them in the balls. “Dear Evan, I’m so sick of all the doormat women who are nice. I’ve finally found a keeper who loves to kick me in the balls. The only problem is that my balls hurt all the time! Oh Evan, why can’t I find a woman who loves to kick me in the balls but is also nice?” Ummm, because the two qualities are contradictory? Because the desire to get kicked in the balls is not healthy or conducive to a good relationship? Because a man whose balls are still sore from his last marriage to such a woman should know better?

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