I’m a Transgender Woman Who is Saving Herself For Marriage. Why Aren’t Men Interested?

I’m a Transgender Woman Who is Saving Herself For Marriage.
I am a transgender woman. I am social, outgoing, and I have little trouble making friends, male or female.

Surprisingly, men who seem to be interested in me usually aren’t bothered by the fact that I wasn’t born female, but as soon as I let them know I am saving myself for marriage, they don’t give me another chance.

I don’t know how to tell a guy in a different way that might be received well, and it seems men who are interested in me expect immediate sex, and I also really dislike when a stranger just propositions me for sex. Speaking with female friends, I realize that this is not an unusual thing to happen, but it doesn’t seem like the actual nice guys I know or meet are ever attracted to me, and never consider me in a “dating” sense.

Some of my friends do occasionally have trouble with pronouns and wholly perceiving me as a woman, but they do treat me as they would treat any other woman (I’m still not a fan of being talked down to, or the “insert sexual innuendo here” accompanied by *giggle*), so at least at some level I am recognized as being a woman.

I have tried being an initiator and telling a guy when I like him, but that never seems to go over well. I just want to know, is there anything I can do differently?

Thanks,
Vanida

I am rarely tongue-tied.

But I am not sure where to begin when addressing your sincere question. I’m very afraid of saying the wrong thing – since I’ve never given advice to a transgender woman before – and have little to no knowledge about the emotions, challenges, and experiences of women in your position. So instead of twisting myself into a pretzel to avoid offending, I’m going to do what I’ve done for a decade: be honest, and deal with the consequences.

First of all, I’m glad you’ve resolved your gender identity issues. It must have been a long, confusing road to get to this point, and you’re to be commended for taking action.

Do whatever you want, don’t hurt anybody, and don’t judge people who think different than you.

Second, I don’t know that there’s a large body of literature specifically about transgender dating. But since you want to be treated like any other woman, I will treat you like any other woman. Here goes:

You have an unrealistic set of expectations about how the dating world works. These expectations cause all of your friction. Let’s start with some simple math.

Do you know what percentage of people wait until marriage to have sex?

3%

I am not judging you, shaming you, or expressing my feelings one way or another. Really, I don’t care about your life choices. Do whatever you want, don’t hurt anybody, and don’t judge people who think different than you. But I’ve gotten a lot of questions from celibate people over the years and the common strain between them is always this: they were endlessly frustrated that people kept dumping them.

Their argument boils down to: “I don’t want to change. Why won’t the rest of the world change to meet my needs?”

My answer – no matter whether it’s a man, a woman, or a transgender woman – remains the same: you have two choices – change to accommodate the majority, or accept that being in the minority narrows your dating pool considerably.

Are you a 5’11” woman who will only date a 6’2” man? Your dating pool is 5% of men.

Are you a 200K earner who wants your man to make more than you? Your dating pool is 2%.

Are you Jewish and you want to keep it in the tribe? Your dating pool is 1.7%.

So, Vanida, not only is your dating pool restricted by your pre-marriage celibacy vow, but it’s also restricted by the number of men who would feel uncomfortable (for whatever their reasons) dating a woman who used to be a man. I don’t know what percentage that is, but it may be more than any poll can honestly reveal.

You have two choices – change to accommodate the majority, or accept that being in the minority narrows your dating pool considerably.

Suddenly, your dating pool is not merely 3% of the population – mostly virgins, fundamentalists, and born-agains – but a much smaller percentage: religiously conservative men who believe in waiting who are also cool with having sex with someone who used to be a man.

Therefore, I can’t say whether you’re doing anything ‘wrong’ (being the initiator is not prototypically feminine, for example), but the primary issue is numerical.

The number of religiously conservative men who are open to waiting until marriage to sleep with a transgender woman is considerably smaller than the number of men who want to have sex quickly with women who were not previously men.

Those are the facts, not my feelings.

If anything, my dear Vanida, if you’re going to hold firm to your convictions, you just need to be really patient with this process. Best of luck.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    l8dyluck81

    You haven’t considered that there might be another angle: a guy (or girl) who isn’t waiting, but then meets someone who is, falls in love with them and decides to wait WITH them, even if they didn’t want to wait FOR them. It can and does happen that way, too. People don’t have to be super-religious to want to wait with someone. Waiting until marriage isn’t a common thing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re totally screwed (no pun intended) when it comes to your chances of finding lasting love. In fact, it’s a great douchebag detector: if you tell a guy you’re waiting and he runs, he’s likely too selfish to be the kind of guy you need, so he’s doing you a giant favor by dumping you. My advice is to keep your options open, don’t fixate on one person too heavily until you get to know them, and most importantly, don’t just blurt out that you’re a virgin who’s waiting until marriage. Break it to them gently, because it is kind of overwhelming news. I’ve made the mistake of telling men straight up that I’m a virgin (not even that I’m waiting, just that I’m a virgin), and it’s bowled them over. They’re not used to it, and as an adult virgin it is true that it more stressful to date because of that. You’re never sure how a guy’s going to react, so it’s best to just break it up in stages. Don’t even bring up the sex talk until the guy does, and when that happens, just tell him something like “I really want to take things slow for now, I don’t believe in rushing to get physical”. When the relationship progresses a bit, and it’s clear that you’re headed into a relationship, tell him you’re a virgin and you really want to save yourself for the person you can see yourself spending the rest of your life with. After a few months, if he’s decided to take the plunge and wait, then you can break it to him that you’re waiting all the way until marriage. If he bolts, you lose nothing but a few months of time. It sucks, but it is what it is. Of course, the added wrinkle of transgender isn’t something a lot of guys will be able to deal with, but again, if they can’t accept that about you then they’re not the guy for you.
    We live in a sex-saturated society, so much so that people think EVERYONE is always doing it. With apps like Tinder and adult sites like AshleyMadison.com it is very easy to assume that if you’re not having sex, there’s something wrong with you. I assure you that there are many people who are also waiting. If you need support or reassurance, there are lots of resources you can look up to help you.
    To Evan’s point that the decision to wait narrows the dating pool considerably, I say good! In the end, you’re only going to marry one person, so who the heck cares if there aren’t hundreds of good-looking, age-appropriate celibate men banging down your door? Stick with your values and you won’t go wrong.

    1. 1.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Fair enough, except for this one line: “In fact, it’s a great douchebag detector: if you tell a guy you’re waiting and he runs, he’s likely too selfish to be the kind of guy you need.”

      Nope. A man isn’t a douchebag or selfish for wanting to have sex before marriage. He’s just an adult with normal needs. Men who insist on having pre-marital sex may not be Vanida’s future husband, but they are certainly not all selfish, perverted douchebags.

      1. 1.1.1
        l8dyluck81

        Maybe douchebag is too strong a word for most guys, fair enough. But nobody said anything about being perverted. Sex is not a need, either. At least, not in the same way that other things are. You NEED food, you NEED sleep, you NEED water. Sex is a desire, not a need. And it is quite selfish when you think about it: anyone who can’t sacrifice their own selfish wants for a time, for the betterment of the relationship, is being selfish. We are selfish creatures by nature, but to put your own desires aside for the good of someone else? That is true love.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Sorry, shitty argument. Sex is the thing that makes couples different than “just friends”. So to compare it to food/sleep/water is ridiculous. But if you look at something like The 5 Love Languages – by Dr. Gary Chapman as well as most relationship studies, sex is, in fact, a pillar of relationships. So to go without it is like going without communication, random acts of kindness or quality time. Sure, you don’t NEED to be near your boyfriend, but if your boyfriend never has time to see you, you may want another boyfriend. If my girlfriend doesn’t want to sleep with me, I’m going to find another girlfriend.

        2. l8dyluck81

          Sex is the thing that makes couples different than just friends? Really, if you think that then I have no choice but to believe you have no idea what love is really all about. Real love is not “give me sex or I’m going to leave you”. People are perfectly capable of having romantic feelings and yes, even loving each other without ever having a sexual relationship. Sex is great, and you are right that it brings people together in a way that nonsexual relationships do not – but only in the right context, the covenant of marriage. Anything else is just lust.

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          If you are one of those people who thinks sex takes place only within marriage, that’s your right. But you should probably not tell the 97% of the people who disagree with you that they’re wrong. Goodbye.

        4. l8dyluck81

          Did I say anything about anyone being wrong? No, I did not. People can do whatever they want, that’s the beauty of God-given free will. But do consider that those who choose to wait to experience sex within marriage might have very good reasons for doing so. 

        5. Evan Marc Katz

          Here’s what you said, “Sex is great, and you are right that it brings people together in a way that nonsexual relationships do not – but only in the right context, the covenant of marriage. Anything else is just lust.” You’re suggesting that couples who have monogamous sex while dating for two years are simply “lusting” for each other. That is clearly untrue.

        6. starthrower68

          I would respectfully submit that sex no longer differentiates friends from couples.  People are having sex all the time without intention of being a couple.  

        7. Ryan

          we need sex in order to survive as a species…

      2. 1.1.2
        Rebecca Wilder

        I agree Evan.  Saving yourself for marriage needs to be a separate discussion from being a transwoman. As a transwoman myself in the dating arena I was startled to find out how many “straight”  men wanted me.  I assume though that both naturally born women and transwomen experience the same treatment from most men,  from the discussions I have with my girlfriends. Personally I would be thrilled just to have a husband instead of boyfriends that for whatever reason have an internal fear of being gay and family finding out regardless that I pass extremely well.

    2. 1.2
      Fiona

      This seems intentionally deceptive. You’re stringing the guy along with promises of how you’ll be open to physical intimacy. Then, when he’s met the threshold, you present a new obstacle.

      Sure, you don’t have to open with waiting for marriage on your first date. But you shouldn’t tell someone you want to go slow if you really mean you are waiting until marriage. That’s dishonest.

      1. 1.2.1
        l8dyluck81

        How is that being dishonest? “I want to go slow” is the truth. Just because I don’t blurt out my whole sexual and dating history in one go doesn’t mean it’s lying. It’s choosing not to overwhelm guys with the whole truth. It gives them the time they need to decide whether or not waiting with me is worth it to them. A few months off the market doesn’t screw a guy over. And I deserve a chance that I likely wouldn’t get if I bashed guys over the head with the knowledge that I’m a virgin and want to wait. All they’ll be able to think about is not getting any. Once they get to know me, they’re better able to make an informed decision. 

        1. Karmic Equation

          It’s the equivalent dishonesty to when a man wants sex but doesn’t intend to ever have a relationship with the woman.

          If women stop complaining that men are being dishonest by not disclosing upfront that they don’t want a relationship, you need to not be dishonest for not disclosing upfront that you don’t plan to have sex until marriage.

          Depending on your gender and what you’re complaining about in the opposite gender, just interchange the words “Sex” and “Relationship” and you’ll get it. 

        2. mcurious

          huge difference between taking it slow and not gonna happen without a ring. I can be patient with the former, but no point in wasting  my time on the latter. Oh, before you slam me as a sexist douchebag, I’m a woman. 

      2. 1.2.2
        Adrian

        Fiona I agree completely. l8dylucky81, if you are just planning to wait until you are sure about him and you just happen to be a virgin, then it’s okay, but to tell a guy that you want to go slow before you get intimate makes him then you mean a few weeks/months… 

        Then after he waits the few months, you tell him you want to wait until marriage which could be a year and a half to two years away… that’s a long time and you manipulated his emotions because now he has strong feelings for you and would feel guilty for dumping you. 

        You say he only loses a few months… true if you are only talking about waiting until you are sure, NOT true if you are talking about waiting until marriage. Would his feelings even matter to you??? 

        1. l8dyluck81

          Nope, not if he’s so concerned about himself that he can’t wait for me. And I meant that he only LOSES a few months IF he decides I’m not worth the wait. If he decides that I AM worth it, he wouldn’t be LOSING anything. In fact, he would be GAINING a lot: a dependable, loyal, committed wife who loved him long before I ever met him, because I decided to save myself for him alone. Besides, I don’t know why you are saying that marriage has to be a year and a half to two years away. It doesn’t necessarily have to take that long to decide you want to marry someone. And without the sexual element, many couples who wait have the clarity of mind to figure out much sooner whether or not they are with the right person. Sex mucks up people’s feelings much more than it helps.
           
           I choose to keep mum on it because it’s better than blurting it all out at once before there’s ever even a discussion about exclusivity. That would make it look like I have some kind of hang up about it, which I don’t. No matter how I phrase it, it wouldn’t go over well. To a guy who’s interested in finding a long term relationship and marriage, if I did the full-disclosure thing (which would not be any of his business if we just started dating), all it would likely sound like to him is “Hey buster, you better not even THINK about having sex with me because I’m waiting all the way until marriage, so if you think you’re getting any, you’re sorely mistaken!”. That’s not really the message I want to send and since most men don’t even get to that point, I see no reason to lay it all on the table right off the bat.
           
           It’s like someone with a past addiction telling you all the sordid details of their drug problems right away – too much information too soon. Giving out important details in smaller doses over time helps to make them much more easily digestible. That way a person has more time to get to know who you are and gets a much fuller picture of what life with you is like. I deserve a fair chance and I don’t have to lay all my cards on the table at once. Besides, I am much more than my virginity. My waiting status is important but it’s not the whole of my entire being – I am much more than that, and any man who would reduce me to nothing more than a missed chance at getting laid isn’t worth my time.

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          “And I meant that he only LOSES a few months IF he decides I’m not worth the wait.”

          If you’re saving yourself for marriage, he loses a few YEARS. If you’re saving sex for a committed relationship, well then guess what? That’s exactly what I recommend.

        3. l8dyluck81

          You missed my point: if a guy decides he wants to wait with me and we get married, he’s lost nothing and gained everything. If he bails after a few months because he’s not the kind of guy who can wait, that means he’s lost a paltry amount of time. If we break up after a year because we just aren’t right for each other, then it sucks, but more for me than him, because he’s not the one who’s going to be having babies. But any guy who can’t just be with me and love me for my own sake and would consider time with me a waste without sex, isn’t someone I’d want to commit to anyway. 

        4. Adrian

          l8dyluck81 said: “if he decides that I AM worth it, he wouldn’t be LOSING anything. In fact, he would be GAINING a lot: a dependable, loyal, commited wife who loves him” 

          Question: What else does he gain that makes waiting for you worth it? Everything you named he can get from a woman who didn’t make him wait until marriage PLUS sex.

          Sure he gets a woman who has never been touched by another man… or he can get a woman who has been with other men in bed but still acts like she is a prize plus he doesn’t have to worry about teaching her anything, they both can just enjoy each other physically.

          With the virgin, after the first night… she is no longer a virgin… so what else does she bring to the table?… the non-virgin, has the confidence -in herself, her skills, and her body- and experience and if he is lucky, maybe even a few tricks she can show him that will blow his… mind (^_^).

          Again, I’m not attacking you, I just want you to see that virgin or non-virgin, a good woman is priceless.  One is not better than the other they are just different, so if a guy doesn’t choose to wait for you, he isn’t bad and the woman who didn’t make him wait isn’t bad or a slut.

          Again, what else do you offer that he can’t get that would make him wait until marriage? 

        5. l8dyluck81

          Adrian, 

          I’m not disputing the fact that the world isn’t split into good people and hell-bound fornicators. There are many  good people who commit all kinds of sin. I know because I’m one of them. So I definitely agree that there are many folks who make great partners who just happen to have chosen not to wait for marriage to have sex. 

          As for what will make me worth the wait to my husband, I can only guess at that, since I’m not him (but now I’ll be sure to ask him that after we meet!) . You’re right that there are many good women out there who don’t hold the same sexual morals and values as me, and I’m sure we still share many of the same wonderful character traits. But there is, after all, only one me. And that will be enough for the right guy. 

        6. Adrian

          l8dyluck81, I LOVE your answer. Yes there is only one you, so that will be his prize.

    3. 1.3
      Adrian

      Your l8dylucky81, your argument reminds me of all the horror stories I read about people who marry someone who waits until marriage and then find out that they have different sex drives and are miserable. 

      What would you do if your husband waited for you and then he always wanted sex when you got married… from your post it seems that you wouldn’t be a good match for a guy with a high sex drive and you seem you would make him feel guilty and selfish for wanting you to make love to him more 

      1. 1.3.1
        l8dyluck81

        What are you even talking about? All the waiting stories I read are from couples who are very happy, so I have no idea where you’re getting your information. I really don’t understand where the assumption that virgins have a low sex drive comes from. Not that it’s anyone’s business, but my sex drive is perfectly fine and I am very much looking forward to the day when I will finally begin to have sex. But it has to be within the right context – a loving, committed marriage where we have said our vows in front of God and our families. There are more important concerns in a marriage than mismatched sex drives. That’s something that can be worked on, just like anything else in a good relationship.

        1. Karmic Equation

          “There are more important concerns in a marriage than mismatched sex drives. That’s something that can be worked on, just like anything else in a good relationship.”
           
          Spoken like a true virgin, who knows nothing about sex.

        2. l8dyluck81

          I know everything I need to know about what having sex too early does to relationships outside of marriage. I know that if you don’t have a solid foundation of a relationship that is based first and foremost on friendship, trust, communication and SELFLESS love and sacrifice, then it doesn’t matter how hot your sex life is. I know that all the couples I’ve met who chose to cohabitate and have sex outside of marriage don’t have the level of excitement about their new lives together that most newly married folks expect to experience. I know that I want to be able to look my future husband in the eye on our wedding day and be able to truly mean the words “to forsake all others”, because I will have LIVED that vow my entire life. Anything else I need to know about, I’ll look forward to learning with my husband. There’s no greater gift than that in my eyes. 

        3. Shaukat

          @l8dyluck81
           
          Like most religious virgins, or repressed individuals who (by choice) have no sexual experience, you are basing your self-serving argument on the false assumption that “friendship, trust, and communication” can only be established in a linear fashion prior to sex. However, as anyone who has been in a fulfilling relationship (and who isn’t a virgin) will be able to tell you, the above  bonds and conditions can very easily be established simultaneously with sexual activity. In fact, it is precisely the latter formula that seperates a romantic relationship from a friendship. I already have friends who I enjoy hanging out with while we have conversations over drinks or coffee etc, and these friendships are also based on communication, trust, etc. If I’m interested in a woman romantically, I would have no intention of replicating my non-sexual friendships with her over a period of months or years. Moreover, it is not the case that sex prevents individuals from being able to evaluate their relationships rationally or from ending the relationship if they find they are not compatible. If that were true, then all sex would result in long-term relationships or marriage. Human beings are extremely complex organisms who have evolved over millions of years to incorporate a multitude of different behaviors and responses depending on social context and stimuli, and we can’t be reduced to caricatures out of religious texts or to lab animals.
           
          Finally, please stop with the meaningless anecdotes of people you know who waited until they were married and are now living in bliss, or of those who have no excitement in their lives because they cohabitate outside of marriage. If you have scientifc studies based on representative or probability samples on the status of people who waited until marriage for sex, then please cite them. Otherwise your anecdotal stories are as good as the next person’s who has an agenda.
           
           

        4. l8dyluck81

          My only agenda is to live my life the best way I can, and to be the best person I can be, physically, mentally and spiritually. That’s not a judgment against anyone, nor am I trying to convert people. I’m simply introducing the idea that there is another way of doing something, and it works for many people. Just because you don’t agree, that doesn’t make it invalid. I acknowledge the fact that people often do have successful sexual relationships that lead to marriage. But just as often, sex does make it harder for people to see that they’re not in good situations. They often hang on longer than they otherwise would because they get too attached. Just look at the post below where it says the woman stayed with the guy for 6 years. If they weren’t having sex, it likely would have been much easier to figure out that they weren’t a good fit. I am not going to waste time citing empirical research – if you’re interested, you can look up studies on sex yourself. There are plenty of them. 

          I want the experience of saving myself for marriage. To me, it’s more romantic, more meaningful and allows me to focus on honoring God, my future husband and myself. If you don’t agree, that’s okay. I’m trying to live my life the best way I know how. You’re free to do the same.  

      2. 1.3.2
        Adrian

        Okay l8dyluck81, I don’t want to to go back and forth, though I’m sure you know that if you google regretting wait until marriage many stories will pop up. Just like If I’m google I’m glad I waited until marriage many stories will pop up.

        So lets not talk about that, instead my I ask you a question? Can you explain to me what you think Evan, Karmic, Fiona, and myself are talking about when we say it isn’t fair to the guy to first tell him you want to go slow before you have sex, then after he is emotionally invested tell him you want to wait until sex?

        The reason I ask is because I don’t mind if you disagree, and I don’t mind if you won’t change… but I notice you never acknowledged Evan’s point, so I’m curious if you actually see and understand what he is saying. I’m not attacking you so please don’t take it as an attack, I enjoy your strength in what you believe in.

        1. l8dyluck81

          The thing is, Adrian, I don’t look up phrases that will put any kind of slant on controversial issues. When I want to consider both sides of an issue, as with this, I simply search for a generic topic. I type in “sex before marriage” and all kinds of articles pop up. I notice that there are some which are in favor of not waiting and there are many more that are. That’s just been my experience. 

          As to your other statement about whether or not I understand that I’m not being “fair” by not telling the absolute whole truth right from the very beginning, please note that Evan has written many other blog posts concerning virginity and he has largely held the same point of view as I, at least in the past. It makes zero sense to verbally vomit out the entire truth about my values, morals and position on sex before marriage before a conversation about exclusivity is even on the table. His advice to a previous emailer was to wait until the sex talk arises organically and go from there. That’s what I have done and what I will continue to do. So I guess the answer to your question would be, well, a shrug of my shoulders. I guess I don’t really care if most guys would think it was unfair of me not to give them immediate full disclosure about my sexual values. If they don’t want to continue to date me after eventually finding out the whole truth, that’s their choice. All I want is to be given a chance. A chance a lot of men wouldn’t want to give me if they knew everything before they had time to figure out whether or not we fit well in other ways. Besides, the other side of the coin is, I blurt it all out and suddenly I’m the Great Untouched Virgin that is a rare trophy at this age. That prospect isn’t all that enticing either! So no thank you, I’ll be going the more conservative route and doling out the pertinent info as I go. 

           

        2. Adrian

          l8dyluck81, I have to thank you for explaining your views to me and not attacking or feeling like you are being attacked. As I said, I definitely love your sincerity and commitment, I don’t believe your are wrong, it’s your choice. Maybe one day you will be the person to start a dating website for virgins people waiting until marriage.

      3. 1.3.3
        Dani

        I was pleased enough with eyerolling at l8dylucky81’s comments but that last one seemed like the most ignorant one out of this whole post. 

        I don’t think I’m all the wiser than anyone here but this is some sincere advice, that I hope isn’t taken the wrong way.

        1 – Take your blindfold off. If you’re selectively only reading success stories about waiting for marriage, you owe it to yourself to also read the not-so-good tales. If not, you’re in for a hard pill to swallow once you actually find “the one” and encounter the issues everyone else is pointing out and your’e so blindly turning away from. It’s not about preparing for failure, it’s about preparing for REALITY based on a very strict choice you’ve made for yourself. If you claim you have a healthy sex drive, and WANT intimacy when you find a husband, then my friend, that alone indeed DOES leave just as much room for error as having all the chemistry in the world, getting hitched, and then expecting full commitment and compromise in a relationship apart from sex. 

        More importantly: 

        2 – Do not assume that “oh if they only had saved sex for marriage” would solve ANY problems at all. Having WITHHELD from the act, I think you’re the least informed person to be able to make such a wild assumption. The only people who CAN make an assumption that “if we would have waited for marriage before…” are actually the people that INDEED had sex before marriage, had a failed relationship and now have made the clear decision “Wow. I should have waited to be married.” I’m certain that there are the far and between cases such as that, but likely they would be coming from someone such as yourself that chose celibacy and may (or may not, who knows!) be passing the blame on to having sex before marriage. I just don’t want you to think that avoiding sex before marriage (for the sake of avoiding sex before marriage) prevents romantic or commitment problems in any way shape or form. I don’t have perfect examples, but think of Jessica Simpson, who allegedly waited to have sex till marriage. Her marriage failed no matter what. And maybe (by reversing your logic), they could’ve saved themselves a DIVORCE if they would have just, instead of eloping in order to have sex, done the dirty and waited on the whole marriage thing and realized they weren’t meant for each other! Like many people are posting here — you’re only a virgin until your first time. She seems much more at peace now wanting to take things slow in her relationship and had two babies with her partner before considering marrying her current husband. 

  2. 2
    Karmic Equation

    Hi Vanida,

    I shoot pool with a transgendered woman. She is absolutely one of the nicest women I’ve ever met. And she has a bod most women would kill to get. Blonde, tall, lean, leggy, D-cups 🙂 Her face is average. And I would say it’s easiest to figure out she’s transgendered from her voice than from any other part of her.

    Before the men realized she was transgendered (I wasn’t the one who told on her) — they were impressed by her, to say the least. Then when they knew, she became more of a curiosity to them than anything else. In some ways, I think they were disappointed. In some other ways, I think they were very discomfited by their initial attraction. Some handle their discomfiture with aplomb and others react by distancing themselves and still others are hostile, not towards her, as they avoid her, but rather when they talk about her. Just a different form of homophobia, I guess.

    But this woman DID have a boyfriend. However, the bf was (they’ve broken up now) bisexual.

    So, I guess if you’re looking for a serious relationship, you might want to consider dating a bisexual man. However, I’m not sure how he would handle the fact you’re saving yourself for marriage part. Perhaps bisexual men (and women) would be more willing to wait. Although I think that community is more hypersexual than others.

    So maybe if what you’re looking for is a long-term committed, loving relationship, you have to reconsider both your target dating pool and your desire to maintain your virginity, or maybe try finding a transgendered man?

    1. 2.1
      Julia

      “So, I guess if you’re looking for a serious relationship, you might want to consider dating a bisexual man. However, I’m not sure how he would handle the fact you’re saving yourself for marriage part. Perhaps bisexual men (and women) would be more willing to wait. Although I think that community is more hypersexual than others.”

      I want going to say something to this point. I know a number of trans men and women, as well as people who are gender fluid. I think finding someone who is pansexual, perhaps someone who is also trans seems to be best. At the very least someone who identifies as Queer. I know many people in these less traditional pairings and their relationships seem to be based on love and mutual understanding. I think dating in the queer world will help open you up to people with less traditional views on sex and relationships. Good luck.

    2. 2.2
      mcurious

      just FYI: most transwomen would find that … a bit offensive to seek out a bisexual. They want to be taken seriously as women and treated like a ciswoman* (*cis = non trans). Not that this offends ME personally, just I’ve known transwomen who would be more hurt if an ex boyfriend started seeing a man vs. if he cheated on her with another woman. Lady Chablis comes to mind… 

  3. 3
    Morris

    I totally agree with the advice given. It would seem like the majority in that dating pool would be conservative/traditional men. And they probably want a traditional family as well. Something a transgender woman wouldn’t be able to provide.

    There are plenty of men that are openminded and non-traditional. Don’t mind adopting etc. But they probably don’t want to wait until marriage to have sex.

  4. 4
    Sunshine

    Wow, talking about difficulties in dating! Evan is right; dating is always a numbers game , and the more very specific requirements you have, the smaller are your numbers. “Waiting until marriage” implies spirituality and often religion, and at the very least, the conservative approach. Marrying a transgender requires the opposite of being conservative. And all of that on top of choosing a good quality partner (in terms of character, values, ethics and morals) …  You might be wishing for impossible

  5. 5
    Sabine

    I agree with all of the advice above. Pardon my bluntness, but is your desire to wait until marriage part of the new lfe you are seeking? Sexual compatability is so important in a relationship regardless of the other emotions a couple shares. I’m not implying that it won’t be special or life changing. As one who values intimacy, please don’t put this off (the “relations”) believing that love can “fix” luke warm sexual compatibly. It was one factor that ended my 6+ year relationship.

    1. 5.1
      l8dyluck81

      With respect to your personal experiences, I’d like to point out that six years is an awfully long time to spend in an exclusive relationship with no prospect of marriage. Therefore, it seems safe to assume that other, more important parts of the relationship may have been lukewarm. In other words, don’t blame it on the sex. It sounds like the two of you just weren’t right for each other, something that could just as easily been ascertained had you held off from getting busy. You may have not spent quite as much time with that person, too. Of course, this is just supposition. I don’t know the whole story, nor do I want to because it’s not my business. It just seems like people who enter into sexual relationships hold on far longer than they otherwise might. 

      1. 5.1.1
        JoeK

        “It [sex] was one factor that ended my 6+ year relationship.”


        She already acknowledged it wasn’t the factor, just one.

  6. 6
    GreatGal

    Vanida,

    The good news is that your dating experience is the same as other women’s – meeting guys who don’t want to wait until marriage for sex, being propositioned for sex immediately,  being talked down to because you’re a woman, sexual innuendos, being friend-zoned when there’s no interest and being rejected when making the first move.  Yup, that’s the same about right.

    I know Evan’s statistics are correct, yet, they don’t help you NOW, despite know these statistics.

    Therefore, the ONLY thing to do is not to give up.  Not to become cynical when you come across the above circumstances.  Not to hate men when things don’t work.  Not all men are like that, you only need to find the one Compatible with you.

    You wish to know if there is anything you could do differently.  I’m afraid not very much, except to meet more people, to increase the chances of meeting the right guy.

  7. 7
    Noquay

    Vanida
    This thing is, most folks want to know how things go under the sheets before committing to marriage. Believe me, a relationship without good sex is strained and generally awful. As you are transgendered, a good many men who know little/nothing about gender reassignment surgery will want to ensure that things are OK belowstairs. Dont mean to be crude Vanida, but you’re in a situation where as a woman, you’re going to have to work harder than most females to prove your “womanliness”.

  8. 8
    anotherthought

    Sorry, OP, but you’re queer, and I mean it in the best way possible.  I mean that you don’t fit into what society considers to be the mainstream definition of gender.  No matter how much you may try or see yourself as a conservative person, that isn’t really what you are to the eyes of actually conservative people. The values you seek i.e. men who will wait until marriage, are par with extreme religious conservatism meaning they will not see you as a “woman” and will most likely have issues with gay rights and so forth. You also have to keep in mind that you obviously can’t have children.

    My best bet for you, is to find your local transgendered community and build from that, rather than seek approval in a community that will very likely shun you.  The reality is that most heterosexual men who have  the conservative values of wanting until marriage  are usually after women who were born women AND can bear children.

    1. 8.1
      Adrian

      Your comment reminds me of something I once read that blow my mind. I was a article with a transgender woman complaining about how hard it is to date, The weird part for me was when she said she didn’t want to date gay men, she wanted a man… 

      That was weird for me to hear, though I guess she was saying that dating another transgender or gay person would be like dating another woman… or maybe she needed the validation that she was accepted as a woman which she felt she could only achieve by winning a straight man.

      Anyway, I doubt the OP will take your advice and limit her options going to the transgender community to date 

      1. 8.1.1
        mcurious

        it’s b/c she wants to be taken seriously as a straight woman and perceived how a woman born biologically female would be. I’m a straight woman and people don’t’ gen. suggest I try dating bisexual or transmen (though I have) when I complain about being single/not being with the right guy for me. 

  9. 9
    Isa

    Absolutely go for a transgender man.  Fun story, girl in college became a lesbian, then a man.  Much better looking as a man of course, so no one was surprised.  But!  He was a virgin waiting for marriage in the Catholic church.  He went to get a MA in gender studies, met a nice female (originally male) through the research, got engaged, and got married in one of the most conservative churches in the diocese.  They make a very cute couple and look great together. 
     
    So I would say, start trolling courage or possibly dignitas (they tend to be less for abstinence).  There should be some trans people who would like to get married 🙂

  10. 10
    BOB

    If this woman had always been a woman, she would know from her life experience that men primarily want sex and that love, for men, is a seldom-occurring phenomenon. However, she only recently became a woman and is only now learning that. She might want to keep in mind that men have always been like this and that her recent experience is common among most if not all women.

    As Evan said, it would be difficult enough for her to find a man who wants to wait until marriage to have sex with a woman who had always been a woman, but it’s only more difficult to find a man who wants to wait until marriage to have sex with a woman who had previously been a man. She takes a difficult task and makes it moreso.

    IMO the practical course of action is for her to accept that this is 2014, we live in a post-modern society in sexual practices are relaxed, and that her best hope of finding a man to marry is to follow the advice Evan gives all the other women which is to date a man who she feels is genuinely interested in having an LTR with her and, only then, when she is fully ready to have sex with him. That practice alone will filter out the men who want only sex and then the sex she does eventually have may not be marital sex, but it will much more likely be sex within the context of a loving, long term, exclusive relationship which may well lead to marriage.

    Summary- she should do what Evan tells all the other women to do.

  11. 11
    Adrian

    Vanida, I’m curious, why are you waiting until marriage? Most people who wait unit marriage do it for religious reason, but if you are doing it for religious reasons, doesn’t the bible teach against homosexuality? I would have thought most homosexual men and women would be atheist.

    If you find a man who is waiting until marriage, most likely it would be for religious reasons, so to him you would be a spiritual “NO!” “NO!”. I’m not sure how you look, most transgenders can’t pass for women in my opinion, but if you can, then I think it would be best if you don’t tell a guy you were once a man, if you need to know why go back and re-read what Karmic said in # 2.

    Either don’t tell him or tell him upfront, but waiting until he has falling in love with you is unfair to him I think. 

    1. 11.1
      mcurious

      she is trans, not gay. She is a straight woman who  was born into “the wrong body” and has had to change her appearance so her apparent biology matches her internal gender. She is not a gay man living out a fantasy as a woman. 

      1. 11.1.1
        Kevin O'Keeffe

        Well, that’s certainly one opinion.  The only one that the powers-that-be regard as legitimate.  But its merely an opinion.  And frankly, I find it absurd.

      2. 11.1.2
        TheOne

        Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Unless you have a genetic disorder you are either a man or a woman. Just because you believe in your head that you are the opposite sex does not mean you are. The fact that they have to have intensive surgery and stay on hormones to keep up their “view” of who they are shows it is forced and not natural (in my opinion). They are not real women – they are created. They have to understand that most straight heterosexual men DO NOT view you as a real woman – you are a man who turned himself I to a woman. Its very unrealistic IMO for trans-men to think they are the same as real women. You are not and that is okay just be realistic in knowing the way your mind perceives you are supposed to be and how you are in real life are not the same and most people are not going to view you by how you perceive yourself. They will look at the facts. I have love for all people but sometimes this whole I am a real woman argument comes across as a bit delusional especially when they are pre-op (which is a whole nother topic). Given this to say that she should stick to straight men just because she wants to be seen as a real women is probably not the best advice. No hetero man I know would EVER date a woman they know was born a male.

  12. 12
    Cassie

    Adrian, I don’t think you understand what it means to be transgender. She is a woman. The reason she does not want to date a homosexual man is the same reason I wouldn’t want to date a homosexual man (I am a woman who was born a woman). Similarly, a man dating a transgender woman is still dating a woman. That does not make him homosexual. Also, many religious denominations do not believe that the bible teaches against homosexuality. Many interpret the commentary on homosexuality as part of the outdated rules in Leviticus, like not eating shellfish. 

    Vanida, I think you just need to be patient. Many of us have things about ourselves that make us feel unlovable. I think Evan is right, you’ve limited your dating pool a bit by choosing to wait until marriage and you were already limited by the prejudices of others who won’t accept you for who you are. All this means though is that you will have to be more patient. I would definitely consider why you want to wait until marriage, because you may find that if you are open to waiting for love rather than marriage more men will be open to that. Waiting for marriage is a)potentially a very long time b)a huge commitment.   

    1. 12.1
      Adrian

      Cassie, of course I don’t understand what it means to be a transgender woman, but I’m not saying anything is wrong with her, I was just curious why she is waiting until marriage because it seemed religous.

      The religious thing… well, I don’t want this thread to be hijacked like the porn thread (though Amy I hope you do come back I enjoyed your comments), but most religious people are against homosexuality, but they AREN’T so against not waiting until they get married to have sex… go figure. That’s why I like i8dyluck81 and Amy, it seems they are not just talking the talk as they say.

      As far as the comment from the transgender about dating homosexual men… I agree with you and I already stated that in a earlier post on this thread, I just hope that unless the original poster can pass for a woman (and then from reading this blog… an attractive woman, because even the average looking women have trouble, they get asked out, but they have trouble getting asked out by someone they actually want. Also according to the women on this blog, if the OP is under 40, not overweight, and at least slightly above average looking) she should be good.

      But Cassie, I have to strongly disagree with you about a straight man dating a transgender woman. You don’t understand straight men. You are saying it doesn’t make him homosexual… but it doesn’t matter what you or even the Original poster thinks… Most straight men would FREAK if she told him. So I recommend that if she can pass for a woman in her lower body and looks, then don’t tell him… OR tell him upfront… but don’t tell him after he’s been dating you for a few weeks/months.

      1. 12.1.1
        Joe

        L-O-L-A, Lola.

  13. 13
    Kurt

    Was this letter legit?  As I understand it, a “transgender woman” is really a man who dresses up as a woman or who has had surgery to cut off his penis?
    I cannot envision any straight man wanting to get involved with a “transgender man”! 

  14. 14
    Karl S

    Firstly, Kurt – no. A transvestite is somebody who dresses in clothing of the opposing gender. A tansexual is somebody who feels that the gender placed upon them by their genitals doesn’t fit their identity and decides to adopt a different gender. You don’t need surgery to be a transexual because it’s more about your brains wiring that dictates how you feel inside. I once dated a girl who has realized that he is a man inside, although he hasn’t had hormone replacement therapy or anything yet.

    Secondly – this whole sex before marriage argument is really tired and has been done to death on various threads here. Nobody is going to change their minds so the supporters of such things can content themselves with their limited dating pool and best of luck to them.

    1. 14.1
      Karl S

      I should clarify – yes it’s a real letter (why would they make it up?). No, they aren’t the same. And who would become involved a transexual? Possibly anyone not an explicit 0 on the Kinsey scale who has an open mind.

  15. 15
    LB

    wow. these men are horrible. I would definitely wait to respect a woman as beautiful as you.

  16. 16
    Chris

    it’s very hard for us men who like transexuals to meet a transexual woman, they are not exactly growing on threes over here, I would love to meet one and marry one, that would be the dream of my life, and I also would like to be your friend, I am free and avalible, so why dont you look me up, I am a genuine guy 😉

  17. 17
    Chris

    forgot to say that I think you look absolutely stunning!

  18. 18
    Kevin O'Keeffe

    Guys who want to screw transgendered, quasi-women, are kinky sex perverts (and I mean that in the nicest way). So no, they’re not interested in waiting until marriage, LOL. One might as well ask why it gets warm in Arizona during the summer. Because, honey, that’s the way the Universe works.

  19. 19
    Chris Bechtloff

    Men don’t want to marry you because you’re not a real woman. I’m sorry that that hurts your feelings, but it’s true.

  20. 20
    Anonymous

    i believe what the OP is standing for is truth. I don’t know where she comes from as far as religious background but it’s possible she is a Christian and living a life that is pleasing to the LORD as possible given her situation. The thing many people don’t take into consideration is some people have certain situations that others do not. The issue is some Christians take Deuteronomy 22:5 as solid truth and will look at her as a man in a dress, which according to that very Scripture is “abominable” to the LORD. Verses surrounding that very verse also imply that people cannot wear mixed fabrics and must line their homes with parapet.  I’m as Christian myself and I can say we do not follow those.  I’m also married so I am taken.  To the OP there is nothing wrong with limiting your options because that will weed out the bad guys from the good guys.   If you love the LORD and seek His will you can look at Romans 8:28 that all things work together for those who love the LORD and are the called according to His purpose.  Just be faithful and God will bless you with the right guy. Also keep your friendships as they are very important for you to be ready when God desires to do just that.

  21. 21
    Gerina

    Let’s put aside the religious factor – people who wait almost always do it for religious reasons, and religious people frown on transsexuality.

    Ignore that for a second so I can give you an equally glaring but sadder and more uncomfortable reason (disclaimer: I am not transsexual but I have friends who are):
    I’ve noticed that people who date trans people are almost always fetishists. They don’t date them because “Oh, here’s an attractive human being who has XYZ qualities that I admire or can relate to.” They date them because “Hey now, here’s this exotic toy.”

    It’s next to impossible for a straight T-girl to find a good man who doesn’t just see her as a novelty object. Most T-girls with whom I’ve been in contact have suffered through a string of abusive, dehumanizing relationships, and it’s really depressing.

    What happens with fetishists, then, is that OF COURSE they want to have sex. It’s all you’re good for in their mind – boning and parading around. You’ll be hard-pressed to find someone who will date a T-girl and NOT expect sex until marriage. It’s hard enough for biological women as it is, but when you add a Y chromosome it’s next to impossible.

    1. 21.1
      Holly

      Gerina brings up an interesting perspective. No one should ever be used, though it does happen. However, I’ll hazard a guess that the reason transsexual “women” (they’re still male no matter what they think) do not fare well with finding mates with healthy sexual appetites is because, well, they’re  actually men. And most biological males who have a healthy gender identity and sexual tastes don’t want “women” who are really men.

  22. 22
    Aston

    I have been married for many years and got divorced few years ago after my wife went with someone else. For almost 3 years, I have been seriously dating a (very beautiful) woman (we still live far apart) and while we had sex, she was always very shy and always kept her panties while making love. As I wanted to travel with her, she claimed that she was waiting for some clearance to get her passport. After a while I felt something was wrong and after putting pressure on her, she finally admitted that she was a transgender, fully operated but still with scars to be fixed in a second cosmetic operation.
    It was a shock for me, but as I loved her (and still in love with her) I accepter her as the woman I thought she was. She’s very beautiful and so feminine. No way one could see or even suspect that she’s a transgender.
    I believe that if I had learned her gender at the start of our relationship, I would never stayed with her. But for me today, she’s (still) a woman even though she cannot get babies, but that’s ok with me as I have already 2 grown up daughters.

    So my advice to you is, if you’re fully operated, don’t wait forever. You cannot wait to be married to tell him your past gender. He needs to know sooner and realize that you’re like a woman in bed. Otherwise, for sure, your marriage will be a failure.

  23. 23
    George Pence

    You just aren’t finding the right men I am a bi male who’s been trying to find a transgender woman to have a relationship with but am having a hard time finding one that likes an average man we are out there just keep looking

  24. 24
    open minded

    I am cool With dating a transgender woman, but I would never wait with sex. In my mind any woman holding back on sex could very well be frigid. You don’t know if your sex life would match at all. With the importance sex has in life I would never ever risk it period. Yes I would agree to take time to get to know the person first but I would never wait for marriage that would be a recipe for potential disaster

  25. 25
    AnotherDude

    I think through most of the previous posts you people got off track the girl asked for help. First I don’t know why men don’t find you interesting i have a GF she was born a girl but she also has male parts. I didn’t even know she was transgender until we first got in bed and actually got to it. Second if you’re waiting til you are married that makes complete sense and if your man doesn’t respect your choice then you should leave him. Third don’t stress it to much there will be someone out there who will love who you are inside and outside and once you meet him best of luck to you.

    1. 25.1
      Gordon

      If your GF has “male parts” she was NOT born “a girl” bur rather was designated “a girl” at birth by her fearful parents or some ignorant official (doctor).  More correctly, she was born “intersexed” and evidently still is.  S/he is very lucky to have retained his/her original parts into adulthood as most born intersexed have had their “non-conforming” genitalia mutilated during their infancy or childhood without consideration of their own preference, which could only be validly evaluated after they are adults when THEY are in control of what happens to said non-conforming genitalia.  Your experience with your “girlfriend with male parts”  is not directly relevant to this discussion of transgender issues as MANY intersexed people live completely normal heterosexual lives. and never have to face the discrimination and rejection endured by transexuals.  That said, your open-mindedness on the subject topic is refreshing and should be contributory to the OPs hopes.

  26. 26
    LB

    Maybe it has to do with the fact that straight men are going to know you are a man and not a woman, unless you lie to their faces about it, as many transgenders do. Wearing a woman’s identity as a piece of clothing and saying that you are a woman is a shallow perception of what womanhood is. You don’t have a vagina; I’m not even sure if you removed your penis. A vaginoplasty is not the real thing and you will not have the same chemical bonds with a male as a real female does. What you are is a gay man that dresses up as a woman because being openly gay is disgusting to you.

    Wipe off the make-up, take the surgical knife away, and everyone sees you for what you really are. If you think you can have the white-picket fence with the kids when you cut off your own pecker, you’re sorely mistaken. You likely won’t even live past the age of 40 before you decide that chopping off your nuts was something done while you were high on morphine.

    Men don’t want to date fakes. They don’t like women with fake breasts. They are not going to fall for a man with a visible Adam’s Apple and a dick. If you’re upset about that, tough luck, and have a fresh hypodermic needle for the meth you’ll need.

    Nice stock photo, btw. But that’s a real woman.

  27. 27
    Mark

    Usually waiting for marriage is reserved for super religious people or losers who didn’t even have the choice to wait or not. I’m assuming you won’t settle for a loser, so good luck finding a super religious guy that is cool with dating a transwoman who is saving herself for marriage.

    I am actually dating a transwoman that was a virgin when we started dating. If she told me that she wouldn’t have sex till marriage, I’d have left in a heart beat. I’m fine with waiting a few weeks till we get to know each other, but I am a man, and I do have needs.

    You can tell me sex is just a want all you like, and I can just as easily tell you how pretty much everything outside of water, food, and shelter is a want. I mean, you want a relationship above anything else. And isn’t that simply a want. You don’t “have” to be intimate or loving with anyone if you just plan on living like a robot. That’s pretty much impossible though. In much the same way men have sex drives that build every day that there isn’t release, eventually becoming so overwhelmingly powerful that you can’t even comprehend. simply trying to live like a robot and ignore it is out of the question, as well as selfish on your end. And if you tell me to just use my hand to get rid of the urge, then why the hell are we even dating? That would be like needing some love and affection from me and I tell you to get a lap dog. Pretty dick thing to do considering how emotional women are, always upset and needing affection from their man over every little thing that goes wrong.

    Basically, relationships are two ways. If you think you are going to get everything you want 100% of the time as well as having super high standards, you will stay single a very long time.

  28. 28
    Ada

    Vanida, I’m a bisexual woman, and I had a lovely, short relationship with a transgender woman a year ago. I also waited until getting married to have sex for the first time (I’ve long since divorced.)

    I know it’s not the same as your situation.

    I regret that I waited until marriage. My family and my community kept telling me it was the right thing to do, and maybe it was for them. For me, it was a disaster. We both knew nothing about sex before our wedding night, and it definitely didn’t turn out to be the beautiful experience of learning with and about each other that I had hoped for. It was scary and painful, and sexual incompatibility was one of the main reasons we split up. We had all these expectations about ourselves, our marriage, and each other that were wholly false. And we didn’t know how to talk about them either because we didn’t have any vocabulary or sexual experience to know what we each needed.

    I would ask you to think about the reasons you want to wait. It’s not wrong to want that, just consider where your choice comes from. You’re beautiful and special, and you deserve happy relationships. If you want a relationship that does or will eventually include sex, you might be preventing your own heartache by slowly, over a time frame that’s comfortable for you, getting to know someone sexually before you agree to a commitment as serious as marriage.

  29. 29
    t

    Why would a trans “woman” who cannot get pregnant wait for marriage or even expect to get married?

    Men only want to marry to have children. You can’t give a man children.

  30. 30
    Katzy

    Vanida,

    Are you waiting until marriage to have sex for the first time since the day your mother gave birth to you ?

    Or for the first time since transitioning to female identity ? If the latter, please don’t allow a man to presume the former. That’s part of being honest.

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