How Many Pics Are Enough for Online Dating?

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I have a particular question about sending pictures to potential dates. I have on my dating profiles two to three pictures, all recent. I’m honest about my age, height, and whatever else I write down. After exchanging numbers the men ask for more pictures. I understand they don’t want to be fooled so I send another one or two.

But the pattern is that they don’t stop demanding more. This has led me to stop talking to some guys who may have been a great potential. I wince when they ask me to send a “body shot”. Not because of issues with my image, but because they’ve seen other photos and I hate to think a date rides on how my body looks from this or that angle. I’m also uncomfortable with strangers I’ve never met having a stash of my photos.

I have guy friends who don’t see it from my point of view. That they’ve been duped in the past and women trick them with angles and lighting. How do I handle this in the future? I’m sure I’m not the only woman that feels this way!

Christine

I understand why you feel the way you do.

You don’t want to be objectified.

You don’t want to feel pressured.

You hate to think that you’re being evaluated on your looks.

But there’s always an issue between how the world works and how we want the world to work.

But there’s always an issue between how the world works and how we want the world to work.

I want to be able to eat whatever I want and not gain weight. Not how the world works.

I want to be able to write whatever I want without people getting mad. Not how the world works.

You seem pretty upset at how the world works – as evidenced by your own words:

I wince when they ask me to send a “body shot.”
I hate to think a date rides on how my body looks from this or that angle.
I’m also uncomfortable with strangers I’ve never met having a stash of my photos.

That last comment is a little extreme. Most guys aren’t photo-collecting stalkers; they’re men who don’t want to show up on another date with someone who is 25lbs heavier than advertised.

But you know that, Christine.

In fact, it sounds like you very much understand how the world works — you just don’t want to accept it. And, of course, it’s your right to do as you see fit.

The question is whether it’s serving your larger purpose. I would suggest it’s not.

You can protest men who ask for more photos by refusing to play along with their request.

You can write off all men who ask for more photos by assuming they’re all shallow, which is partially true.

But, as you said, chances are that some of these men are decent guys who have been fooled by one too many women who misrepresented themselves.

Thus, there’s a pretty obvious solution: stop men from asking the very question you abhor.

Instead of posting two recent photos that don’t include full body shots, post 7 photos that do.

Instead of posting two recent photos that don’t include full body shots, post 7 photos that do.

The men who are attracted will still write, the men who aren’t won’t, but you will have largely eliminated the request for recent, full body photos, because you provided them up front.

There. Easy-peasy.

It’s the same advice I give in Finding the One Online. Let me know how it works for you.

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Comments:

  1. 21
    Adrian

    Hi Marika,

    I just thought of something you said, “I’m currently having to physically restrain myself from spending the weekend up the coast with a guy where the chemistry is 11/10.

    I apologize in advance is this question is too personal but didn’t you say that sex is too painful for you? However are you saying that you still crave sex even though it hurts? (if this is too personal don’t answer it).

    I only ask because it reminds me of my support group back when my deceased ex was going through her treatments, she drifted between sex being to painful to having zero desire for sex. All the husbands and wives in the group were very sexually frustrated for “YEARS” however they all felt trapped!

    Here are some of the most common complaints/reasons they felt trapped that I remember:

    > If you “leave” a spouse that is going through a major illness because the treatments have caused them to not be in the mood for sex or be in too much pain for sex for years then they would be looked at as an “unsupportive” partners if they leave the relationship.

    > If you “cheat” on a spouse because after years of them not having any sex drive or being in too much pain to have sex due to treatments then they would be looked at as being “selfish” partners if they seek what they need outside of the relationship.

    > If the man started “watching porn” behind the back of their spouse who already feels self-conscious about their body or guilty because they “can’t” give them what you need sexually (or any sex for that matter) for years then they are seen an “insensitive” partner.

     

    Anyway most women I knew of that felt pain when having sex rarely wanted to have it. Or am I confusing you with another commenter?

     

     

    1. 21.1
      Marika

      You’re confusing me with another commenter.

    2. 21.2
      Emily, the original

      Adrian,

      I apologize in advance is this question is too personal but didn’t you say that sex is too painful for you? However are you saying that you still crave sex even though it hurts? (if this is too personal don’t answer it).

      I’m assuming she meant emotionally painful. She’s really attracted to him but he doesn’t want a relationship, so hooking up with him would hurt her because it would mean something to her but be like changing his socks for him.

      1. 21.2.1
        Marika

        I think he’s thinking of another commenter with a similar name who had a physical condition that made sex painful.

    3. 21.3
      Mrs Happy

      Adrian,

      I can’t reply to your comment below under 21.1.1 to answer your q’s;

      Sit wherever you want in the cab, driver won’t care.   Order whatever you want though not sure people will know what you mean by root beer.   Tip if you want to, but you don’t have to, wait staff are paid properly here and don’t rely on tips for their income, I just round up to tip often, or a bit more, but only in good restaurants.   Serving staff in the city love Americans because Americans tip.   Order non-alcoholic at bars, it really doesn’t matter, and you’ll meet people there and at other places anyway, but for God’s sake, Sydney in summer is an outdoor place, don’t spend your time indoors at bars.   And Australian women like book loving nerds and surfer types, we don’t all hang at the beach all day… in Dec and Jan lots of Australians are at the beach sometimes but rest assured most there aren’t surfers.

  2. 22
    Marika

    Emily

    Are you getting the sense the boys here have no idea what we’re talking about 😁

    Nothing to do with craziness or sexual abuse, just raw chemical desire that in no way relates to how good/bad the relationship would be.

    Or maybe, girl, it’s just us!

    1. 22.1
      Emily, the original

      Marika,
      Are you getting the sense the boys here have no idea what we’re talking about 😁
      Nothing to do with craziness or sexual abuse, just raw chemical desire that in no way relates to how good/bad the relationship would be.
      YES! Why is this so complicated? It’s just raw, unadulterated lust! Maybe they’ve never felt it. I do have a male friend who is very logical and careful. He has never been infatuated with anyone. He’s in his ealry 40s. Maybe some people don’t experience that thing that is pulling you to the other side … 🙂

      1. 22.1.1
        Marika

        I guess you’re right! I actually envy people that together and in control of their emotions, but that will never be me ☺

        Adrian: aren’t you in Australia? Why are you on this blog?? Get your arse out into the 35 degree day!

        1. Mrs Happy

          Marika,

          he’ll think you’re using fahrenheit – you have to say, this 95F day.   I wish I knew an appropriate hot, not fat-skinny (I laughed so much at this, never heard it before, trust Adrian) 25-year old with whom I could set up Adrian, while he is here in Sydney; he reminds me of a cute little puppy dog needing guidance.

          And I’m on this blog during my beach holiday – there’s only so much sun, surf, sand and hot lifeguard watching a woman can do in December, after all.

        2. Emily, the original

          Marika,

          I actually envy people that together and in control of their emotions, but that will never be me ☺

          It sounds a little dry.

        3. Adrian

          Hi Marika and Mrs Happy,

          My family did not want me to miss christmas, so I had to reschedule my trip and I leave 2 days after christmas.

          Sigh… Parents right!   Since I moved to a different state for this job and haven’t seen them all year my mom wasn’t having it when I told her I wouldn’t be there for christmas. (-_-)

          …     …     …

          I have been doing a lot of reading up on travel forums about visiting Australia but the commenters on there confuse me.

          One will say when you come to our country don’t do this, but then another will jump in and say no no it’s fine if you do that…

          Some examples:

          Some say that when I catch a cab from the airport if I sit in the back the drivers in Australia will be offended and kick me out the cab for treating him like a servant.

          Some say don’t tip a waiter/waitress no matter how great the service was because it is an insult and culturally insensitive.

          Some have said that you can’t ask for root beer (my favorite soda) because it will anger any Australia within ear-shot.

          And finally many have said that since I don’t drink beer or alcohol I should kiss the idea of socializing and meeting locals goodbye since the best place to interact and make new friends is in bars in Australia.

          Oh and Thank you Mrs Happy for doing the conversion for me. (^_^) I was just reading a book on the history of the temperatures yesterday.

          Hey that reminds me: Marika is it true that to Australian women us book loving nerds are overlooked for the surfer types because we are considered boring?

          I read the last statement from an American expat in your country not a local who was posting on the Australian travel forum.

    2. 22.2
      Buck25

      Marika,

      Some of us guys do in fact know what you’re talking about, in reference to that ” 10/10 chemistry” (though you and Emily seem to have it a lot more often than has been my own experience. “Once or twice in the last decade”? I’ve had that once in my   entire lifetime! Maybe that kind of extreme chemistry is evenness available to us than to you, or maybe it’s a generational thing, more common in current times than for me, when I was in your age group.

      Women seem to assume that high chemistry for men is all about objective physical looks. True to some extent, but only to a certain point. The woman I had the most incredible chemistry with was far from the physically best looking woman I ever dated; by contrast, while I don’t think I’ve ever dated a 10 in looks, I definitely dated a few solid 9’s in my younger days. I had some chemistry with some, absolutely felt nothing at all with others. The one I had the most chemistry with was above average attractiveness-wise, but not remarkably so (cute, but not drop-dead beautiful). I had seen her around, but hadn’t even thought of approaching her until a mutual friend set us up on a date, which I was less than totally enthusiastic about, honestly. Thirty minutes into the date, I don’t think either of us knew there was anyone else in the crowded restaurant we were in; to me, she was the sexiest, most beautiful woman I had ever known. It stayed that way for almost eight months. That was nearly forty years and two marriages ago, and she is still the sexiest, most beautiful woman I’ve ever known (or was; she died four years ago). Chemistry is a funny thing sometimes.

      I won’t pretend that looks don’t matter; they certainly do, to me; at least I’ve never felt the first hint of it with any woman who was physically UN-attractive, from my POV. In my age group that’s a problem; I’ve yet to find a woman my age I felt any chemistry, lust, etc. with whatever, and I’m beginning to think it’s likely now that I never will; there just are so few at this age who have enough physical attractiveness left to even move the needle on the meter off the zero point. It apparently takes some modest level of physical attractiveness to do that, at least for me, (and I suspect, for most guys). I think it’s that, plus a certain asexual vibe given off by most 60+, and nearly all 70+ women, that I find off-putting. Maybe a generational thing, or maybe a byproduct of aging; I’m not honestly sure. Not the most politically correct thing to say here, but that’s been my experience. So, it could be, that that one time might turn out to be the only time for me, but at least I had that once, so I guess it could be worse.

      1. 22.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Buck25,  

        “Once or twice in the last decade”? I’ve had that once in my   entire lifetime!  

        I think I’ve experienced that type of chemistry 6 times in the last 30 or so years. Two a decade. The last one was one of the rom-com moments, as cheesy as that sounds. I’m not sure how else to describe it. I was in the employee parking lot at work, walking up to my car and getting ready to leave. I turned and saw a man I did not know standing several feet away from me, next to   his car. And everything just stopped. I looked at him. He looked at me. I waved. He waved. And then I got in my car and thought: Who is that? Yes, he was attractive but by no means the most attractive man at my place of employment.

      2. 22.2.2
        Adrian

        Hi Buck25,

        To be fair Marika is the last person on this blog I would accuse of mistaking chemistry to only mean physical attractiveness.

        1. Buck25

          Adrian,

          I don’t believe that about Marika either, based on what I’ve read of her posts here. I also did NOT say that. With all due respect, you may have read my post a little too fast. I didn’t say Marika (or any other woman) confuses physical attractiveness alone with chemistry. What I actually said was that many women(here and elsewhere), think that FOR MEN, physical attractiveness (in a woman) is the sole determinant of whether they feel   (or think they feel)chemistry with her. I simply pointed out that’s not true, and offered my own experience as an example. Hope that clears it up for you.

  3. 23
    Marika

    Emily said

    It sounds a little dry.

    Perhaps, but honestly I think I need a tiny bit more dryness. Buck has had 10/10 chemistry once, you’ve had it a couple times and not for ages – I’ve had it quite a few times!! My heart is too open.

    Also, I don’t want to be someone in my 50s, 60s or older complaining about the unattractiveness of the opposite sex and all the ways they’re disappointing them in dating.  I want to fall in love and for it to last. Not to get carried away with chemistry with the wrong guys.

    (I know you hate the idea of that boringness ☺)

    1. 23.1
      Emily, the original

      Marika,
      Perhaps, but honestly I think I need a tiny bit more dryness.
      LOL!     I’ve got enough lately for both of us. Don’t worry!   🙂
      I want to fall in love and for it to last. Not to get carried away with chemistry with the wrong guys.  (I know you hate the idea of that boringness ☺)
      I don’t think that’s boring. But with the guys I’ve experienced the 10 chemistry with, I spent time with all of them. Completed the act (if you get what I’m saying) with 3. Made out with a fourth. I tried, and failed, with the other 2. But I don’t think they were feeling it with me. I think they found me appealing or entertaining, but it wasn’t a BIG THING fop them. One I think couldn’t be by himself, so he doesn’t count. He wasn’t choosing me. I have often wondered what it would be like do to experience the 10 chemistry with the other person. To jump off the cliff, together. Maybe it doesn’t exist.

      1. 23.1.1
        Marika

        It exists. I jumped off the cliff with my ex husband…and the bungy cord broke! Hehe. Not because of the chemistry but because it blinded me and I couldn’t recognize that he was bound to hurt me.

        If you can find amazing chemistry and see the person clearly and they are also good for you – get on with your bad self!!

        Also, I wanted / want all the traditional stuff. You don’t. It may have actually worked out with him if I didn’t push for marriage and a family. So don’t think you can’t have a relationship that works and with chemistry.

        1. Emily, the original

          Marika,

          It exists. I jumped off the cliff with my ex husband…and the bungy cord broke! Hehe.

          I guess what I meant was … did he jump off the cliff with you? As we’ve witnessed on this blog MANY TIMES, people experience things differently. Like with the last 10 chemistry, he was my #1 choice and really, at the height of it, the only person I really wanted. Did he feel that way about me or was he flattered by the attention of any reasonably attractive woman? Probably the latter.

      2. 23.1.2
        Adrian

        Hi Emily,

        Don’t take this wrong but I believe you missed Marika’s entire point. She is saying that it is better to compromise (not settle) on short-term high excitement guys in exchange for long-term mid-range (not low) excitement guys if the end result is that she doesn’t end up still single and still searching at 40, 50, 60, or even 70 years old.

        She kind of answered the question you asked me about why I go on so many beige dates? Marika and I may go through a lot of “leading nowhere” dates but it only takes one for that happy ending.

        Like me, Marika would rather go on 10 dates with mid-range chemistry but high compatibility because they could possibly lead to something long-term guys; than to go on 2 high level chemistry but middle to low compatibility guys because out side of sex we know that relationship isn’t going anywhere. It’s just a time waster for someone with the goal of a successfully happy long-term relationship.

        Plus read what she said again! A lot of short-term effort that results in a lot of bad or boring dates until success is better than not trying and then years later complaining about being single.

        Not to sound mean or anything but look at the vast majority of our older commenters (especially the men)-they are mostly all single! Yet each fights Evan on his advice about compromise and what is important for a long-term happy relationship.

        Yes okay… They get to be right! But they also get to remain single and alone. Or they get lots of one night stands… but still go home to an empty apartment with no one to talk that will understand about the funny thing their co-worker did when he thought no one was looking today…

        …     …     …

        Marika if I misrepresented you PLEASE don’t be mad! I apologize-I to hate when people put words in my mouth.

        1. Emily, the original

          Adrian,

          Don’t take this wrong but I believe you missed Marika’s entire point. She is saying that it is better to compromise (not settle) on short-term high excitement guys in exchange for long-term mid-range (not low) excitement guys if the end result is that she doesn’t end up still single and still searching at 40, 50, 60, or even 70 years old.

          I got what she was saying. I was just wondering about her experience with the ex-husband. I wondered if he felt as strongly because men are attracted to a greater number of people. A 10 chemistry for women is rare. Is it rare for men?

          Like me, Marika would rather go on 10 dates with mid-range chemistry but high compatibility because they could possibly lead to something long-term guys;  

          I think that’s probably a good strategy, but then I think you need to stop worrying about whether or not women were having sex with other guys they previously dated sooner in the dating process and whether or not they see you as the “husband” type. Because, by their very nature, mid-chemistry dates don’t elicit the same level of … well, lust. You can’t have it both ways. The mid-level chemistry women will be looking for a relationship and will probably want to get to know you. Could they have hooked up with some other guy sooner? Maybe, but that relationship went nowhere.

  4. 24
    Buck25

    “A 10 chemistry for women is rare. Is it rare for men?”

    Emily, all I can tell you is that it’s certainly rare for me, as mentioned earlier. Is it as rare for other men? I’m not sure, but thinking back to my younger days, I was probably at least marginally attractive to a higher percentage of women, than the percentage of men most women are attracted to; 7 or 8 level chemistry with those was not super common, but not all that rare either; I can recall a number of relationships and two marriages that were like that.

    Does that imply that a woman could feel 10 level chemistry for a man, while he only felt 7 or 8 level chemistry for her? Certainly seems at least plausible, especially when you consider that most women experience life and love through feelings a good bit more than any man typically does. We men are typically more rational/calculating than that ( maybe one reason we think women are being cold and calculating when they really aren’t-seems both genders seem to project their own thought process on the other,   as discussed here many times).So in that situation might a man stay for a while with a women who felt 10 chemistry for him, where he only felt say, 7 chemistry for her? If he felt that was his best calculated option for the time being, but thought he could do better, then possibly yes. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that now(we do learn some things with time and age) but my early thirties and maybe mid forties self, likely would have been.

    1. 24.1
      Emily, the original

      Buck25,

      So in that situation might a man stay for a while with a women who felt 10 chemistry for him, where he only felt say, 7 chemistry for her? If he felt that was his best calculated option for the time being, but thought he could do better, then possibly yes.

      How many people do you think end up marrying a 10 level chemistry? I don’t think it’s all that common. Or if it happens, one person feels it and the other, as your example points out, feels less. If a 10 level chemistry is rare, it’s probably even rarer that two people feel it together.

      I wouldn’t be comfortable with that now(we do learn some things with time and age) but my early thirties and maybe mid forties self, likely would have been.

      Are you going to grill your dates about their level of attraction to you? “By the way, I’m feeling a level 7 and if you feel any less, I need to end this right now.”   🙂

      1. 24.1.1
        Buck25

        If a 10 level chemistry is rare, it’s proven badly even rarer that two people feel it together.

        Emily,

        Yes, I feel certain it is. Having that even in a relationship is extremely rare, much less a marriage. You see, in that one experience I had, it went both ways; when that happens, it’s so obvious there’s no question about it. The intimacy level, emotionally and sexually, is totally off the charts. We’d go to sleep at night, and literally feel our breathing and heartbeats get in sync as we drifted off holding each other. I can’t even really describe it adequately. It was the perfect situation…at exactly the wrong time. Just a few years removed from Vietnam, and just out of a nightmare marriage, I was broken in too many places to sustain the relationship. Love doesn’t conquer all; sometimes, all the love in the world isn’t enough. The breakup broke both our hearts. I eventually got past it enough to find someone else and get married. She never did. For me the memories remain even today, and maybe they did for her too. I’ve never loved another woman, where sometimes, I didn’t see her face; and sometimes in the silence of the wee hours of the night, I can still feel her presence, like some part of her still lives somewhere inside of me. What if circumstances had been different, and we had married? There’s no way of knowing what was down the road we didn’t take, is there?

        On your last point, no, it’s not necessary to “grill” anyone. we might not know after the first few dates, but after two or three months, I think most of us know how much chemistry we have and whether it’s close to the same for our partner. If we have to ask, it’s not-at least that’s been my experience

        1. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          On your last point, no, it’s not necessary to “grill” anyone. we might not know after the first few dates, but after two or three months, I think most of us know how much chemistry we have and whether it’s close to the same for our partner. If we have to ask, it’s not-at least that’s been my experience

          I don’t know if I agree with that. There have been plenty of female commenters on this blog who have written in about a boyfriend they’ve been with for months who they love and appreciate but aren’t particularly attracted to. Is the guy aware of that? Heck, there was a letter to Evan about a woman who had married a guy she wasn’t attracted to. And there are plenty of examples of women who have been burned by high-chemistry relationships and then swing too far the other direction with a low-chemistry safe option. I’m sure men do some of this, too, but there are fewer male commenters than female commenters here. I never assume someone is feeling what I am until it’s verbalized, and even then you have to get to know the person because some people don’t know what they want or can’t articulate their feelings.

        2. Buck25

          Emily,

          I was thinking on my own experience on the male side of that. The only times that I’ve been with a woman for that length of time and not had a good sense of what the woman was feeling (toward me) on the chemistry. The only exceptions that come to mind (I can only recall two) were both women who weren’t sure what they wanted, or what they actually wanted the relationship to be, but   in both cases the relationships were ambivalent to begin with. Latest one is a case in point. Short version: she had a previous high chemistry relationship that became an extremely abusive   marriage(after she ignored sever red flags). We became friends, obviously had chemistry, but she was not in a good place emotionally (her self-esteem was rock bottom) and I really went slow with letting it progress from a friendship. She started escalating it verbally, quite a bit, but her actions when we were together didn’t seem to match her words. She kept that up even after I got her to go to therapy. She claimed she wanted a dating relationship, even wanted intimacy, but always found a reason not to have time or space to let that happen. This went on for several months, but still very ambivalent. When she finally decided to go back to school (which I had encouraged her to do, since her ex had refused to let her work during the marriage, and she’d been out of the work force for over 12 years) I told her she needed to concentrate on that, and let me go my own way. I think the whole “love affair that never was” was some sort of internal fantasy of hers, where she just enjoyed the attention, and the feeling of being loved, but wasn’t ready emotionally to handle anything more. I told her more than once she could have the friendship and emotional support without any of the romantic side, but maybe she just couldn’t believe that.

          Do some guys not realize the woman they’re in a more normal relationship doesn’t feel for them what they feel for her.? I imagine that does happen, for the same reason it happens for women: chemistry induced blindness, and a lot of wishful thinking. It goes for both genders, but I pay a lot more attention to how a woman acts when she’s with me, and what she does, than I do to what she says. Not all women are the greatest communicators either; but when a woman is really feeling it with me, I’ve found her actions are almost always very unambiguous and consistent. I’m not sure guys always do that with women though (though one would think it would be the other way around; not sure whether that’s a form of game playing, or the guy not fully knowing what he wants, and not knowing quite how to show her)

        3. Emily, the original

          Buck25,
          We became friends, obviously had chemistry, but she was not in a good place emotionally (her self-esteem was rock bottom) and I really went slow with letting it progress from a friendship.
          I hope YAG doesn’t get wind of this. If he does, he’s going to Bitch-slap you!     🙂     He has very strong feelings about becoming friends with women. The woman you described doesn’t sound ready for a relationship but also a bit selfish in that she kept you around for attention while not giving all that much back. That’s what I meant by people don’t know what they want or they do know and are acting selfishly.
          Do some guys not realize the woman they’re in a more normal relationship doesn’t feel for them what they feel for her.? I imagine that does happen, for the same reason it happens for women: chemistry induced blindness, and a lot of wishful thinking
          Yes, that happens for women, too, but also men are taught by society that a woman will come around if he keeps asking. I have no idea why a man would want to date a woman whose reluctance he has to wear down, but, for me, anyways, if I say no, I mean no. I’m not going to change my mind six months from now.

        4. Buck25

          I have no idea why a man would want to date a woman whose reluctance he has to wear down.

          Emily, two possible reasons that occur immediately to me. First, the societal message you mentioned (which is badly out-of-date; might have worked a hundred years ago, but not in today’s dating environment). Second, she’s a challenge to him. That’s not likely to work out too well for him either. Similar situation a woman has with the guy who is JNITY; not much if any return to be had on that investment.

          You know, YAG would probably agree on the friends with women thing; he just doesn’t like the idea. In this instance, it really started (this was IRL, not online) as friendship and emotional support for someone who needed both rather badly. With her lack of self-esteem, she was a set-up for another abusive relationship. I acted initially out of kindness (I am capable of some compassion, on occasion); the chemistry part developed later, after I spent a lot of time talking with her. She was definitely not ready for a relationship. If she finishes school, gets some more therapy, and keeps working on learning to love herself, she might get her act together in a year or two. She’s pretty damaged from that previous marriage. You never know, though. You don’t know this, but sometimes when someone (male or female) crosses my path who needs help, and neither the system nor anyone else can help, I step in,   if I think I can make a difference.   Sometimes it works.   For instance, one disabled Iraq war veteran who was homeless and totally lost, is remarried, being a dad to his kids again, and working to help other vets find the help they need.   One young woman who was all but lost to the streets and had virtually no hope, has completely turned her life around three years later; she’s advancing at work, and beginning to like the woman she sees in the mirror, for the first time in her life. Those successes are worth the failures, I think. Some people just need a chance. Life hasn’t given me everything I wanted, but it has given me a lot, and I figure I owe something back to those lost and forgotten ones among us, who just got a bad break, or none at all, or just fell through the cracks somehow. I never have been good at turning my head, and pretending I don’t see.

        5. Emily, the original

          Buck 25,

            I acted initially out of kindness (I am capable of some compassion, on occasion); the chemistry part developed later, after I spent a lot of time talking with her.  

          The chemistry developed later for you for for her? I don’t usually hear a man say that. They’ve done studies where they survey a group of students at the beginning of a class and ask them who’s attractive. There is a general consensus among both the men and the women about that. They do the same survey months later, and men and women find a greater number of people attractive than they did originally because they’ve gotten to know each other. It’s called familiarity breeds attempt.

          For me, I can become fond of a man and grow to like him. Maybe get a kick out of him and enjoy a flirtation, but “that thing” doesn’t usually develop over time. “That thing” that makes you want to get someone alone in a room.

  5. 25
    Buck25

    “A 10 chemistry for women is rare. Is it rare for men?”

    Emily, all I can tell you is that I’m not sure, but thinking back to my younger days, I was probably at least marginally attracted to a higher percentage of women, than the percentage of men most women are attracted to; 7 or 8 level chemistry with those was not super common, but not all that rare either; I can recall a number of relationships and two marriages that were like that.

    Does that imply that a woman could feel 10 level chemistry for a man, while he only felt 7 or 8 level chemistry for her? Certainly seems at least plausible, especially when you consider that most women experience life and love through feelings a good bit more than any man typically does. We men are typically more rational/calculating than that ( maybe one reason we think women are being cold and calculating when they really aren’t-seems both genders seem to project their own thought process on the other,   as discussed here many times).So in that situation might a man stay for a while with a women who felt 10 chemistry for him, where he only felt say, 7 chemistry for her? If he felt that was his best calculated option for the time being, but thought he could do better, then possibly yes. I wouldn’t be comfortable with that now(we do learn some things with time and age) but my early thirties and maybe mid forties self, likely would have been.

     

    @ Adrian,

    At my age a relationship with middling chemistry is not a compromise; it’s simply pointless. Why? Because (and this is the point you don’t get), I only have a few years to enjoy whatever relationship I find. It doesn’t have to last thirty years; hell, it really doesn’t have to last much past ten, if that; after that, if I’m still alive, I won’t care that much, except for companionship, and one can find that in my age group and beyond rather easily, if that is what’s wanted. If I’m going to settle for half a loaf, might as well be for the half that suits my needs best in the nearer term, since that may be all I have left. At your age, you are, (and most likely should be), looking at a longer term picture; the “rest of your life” is a lot more years for you than it is for me. It’s not about being “right” or   wrong; it’s simply about being OLD, (and if I didn’t feel all that old when I first came here, I sure do now, cause I’ve been reminded plenty)

    1. 25.1
      Buck25

      Sorry about the double post; don’t quite know how I did that.

    2. 25.2
      Kitty

      Buck thank you for sharing your experiences and being so honest, empathetic, and humble.   You’ve really given a gift of wisdom to the other commentators.

    3. 25.3
      S.

      Buck, you really think you’re going to die at 76?   Honestly, if anyone thought they just had ten years left to live it would completely change how they would date.   At any age. Death is death.   We never know at what age it might come.   I’d probably do the same as you if I were ill and knew my time was definitely coming sooner than I had hoped.

      But we don’t know.   Not for sure.   I did post above about the couple in their 90s who had three previous marriages between them but married again.   I don’t know if their chemistry was at a 10, but they still had attraction and compatibility. And they are 30 years older than you.   They are fairly active people so it hasn’t been an infirm 30 years, between 66 and 96 for them.   You never know.

      It ain’t over until it’s over. 🙂 But I understand, even at my age.   I’m an optimist and not everyone is and that’s okay.   I hope you live longer than 76, though.   🙂

      1. 25.3.1
        Buck25

        Thanks S.,

        In ten years I’ll be 79, not 76. Statistically most men don’t live much past eighty, even if , like me, they’re active and in good health at 69. It’s possible, absent a terminal diagnosis, but not likely; at this age, as Satchel Paige used to say, “Somethin’ might be gainin’ on you”. This also raises another question: if I find someone where there’s enough attraction and chemistry for me to even begin a relationship or marriage, will it be there on her side, and if so, how many quality years can I reasonably expect to give her? A lot of women in their fifties would be fine for me attractiveness-wise, but for most of them (that’s a ten to almost twenty year age gap), that’s not acceptable, and very few women over 65 are attractive enough to me, for me to have more than neutral chemistry with. Doesn’t take much, really; (a somewhat attractive face, and at least enough of a figure to have some semblance of an actual waistline would be a good start), but that’s not exactly common in the age group. The mid to late forties women who are attracted to me for some reason, are pretty much out of the question; they’d simply get left as a widow at an age that’s not advantaged in the dating market. I’m not comfortable with potentially doing that to a woman I really care about. So that means I’m probably looking for the last unicorn here, if I want a relationship that meets my needs. The odds of that aren’t the best either; but I’d rather fail, and die alone knowing I at least tried my best, than to give up and settle for something I don’t really want(which isn’t really fair to the woman involved either, is it?)

        1. S.

          Ah, you’d be 79.     I didn’t know your age was 69.   My mom is 76 so that age pings for me.

          All your reasons seem fine to me. You are young enough to be out there in the mix searching, but know that time marches on.   I admire your integrity about younger women too.   The truth? If a woman really loves you, she won’t care about your age.   You can be noble and ‘spare’ her.   But I’ll tell you the truth: somehow the men my age are still not ready!   At least the men I meet.

          I wouldn’t date a man more than 20 years old than me.   Not generally for the reasons   you state.   And I wouldn’t date a man who won’t date his own age.     But I did date and love a morbidly obese man.   Loved him to pieces, sigh.   I didn’t set out for that, never considered it but there it was.     What matters is on the inside.   At least for me.   I can say I won’t do a lot of things in theory.   But if I found the right person in many ways,who treated me like gold, and he was way older, well, I’d rather have ten excellent years with him, than a lifetime with someone lesser. Or to never find my match.

          It’s not rational or practical.   But love never is.   🙂   I hope you find you unicorn.   I had hoped the cleaning lady thing would work out.   You were so keen on her.   And   you do seem to keep trying!

  6. 26
    Marika

    Adrian

    You didn’t misunderstand me, it’s all good. Other than I don’t actually prefer it, it’s just the right thing to do (logically & self preservation-y) ☺ I actually hate beige dates. Malika gave some good advice that you need to at least think ‘wow, he/she is cute’ before even going on the date. Seems self evident right? You’d think, but you and I have both been on dates with people just because they’re ‘nice’. Losing strategy.

    Yes, Emily. My ex was at the top of the cliff before I was. He very actively pursued me. I tried not to go there as while he made my heart skip, he was 11 years older, separated, had three kids and lots of admiring female fans around the office. But he wanted me. Then I came to the party and pushed for commitment and the white picket fence and he wanted to give it, tried..but he just couldn’t do it.

    1. 26.1
      Emily, the original

      Marika,

      Yes,  Emily. My ex was at the top of the cliff before I was. He very actively pursued me. I tried not to go there as while he made my heart skip, he was 11 years older, separated, had three kids and lots of admiring female fans around the office. But he wanted me.  

      Ah, yes, that would have been very seductive. The in-demand man singles you out and wants you. That would have been a hard offer to turn down.

  7. 27
    Marika

    Adrian

    I don’t know what sites you’re reading up on Australia on, but most of what you’ve read is ridiculous! I can only really speak with confidence  for NSW and Victoria (remember, it’s a continent), but:
    Some say that when I catch a cab from the airport if I sit in the back the drivers in Australia will be offended and kick me out the cab for treating him like a servant.
    Ridiculous. I always sit in the back. Expect to get your ear chewed off (and probably asked to direct him/her) no matter where you sit! Don’t you have the Uber app? Cabs are expensive and smelly.
    The tipping thing:
    Ridiculous! Everyone loves a tip! It’s just not compulsory. You would tip at most restaurants (round up, like if its 45 round to 50, more in very fancy places), not bars. They sometimes have tip jars or plates and you can leave a dollar, but again not compulsory at a bar/pub.  And don’t tip doormen or people who show you to your rooms in hotels. It’s not done & could be confusing  
    Some have said that you can’t ask for root beer (my favorite soda) because it will anger any Australia within ear-shot.
    That’s weird. We don’t even have root beer (as far as I’m aware), so why would it anger us? Does it have another name?
    And finally many have said that since I don’t drink beer or alcohol I should kiss the idea of socializing and meeting locals goodbye since the best place to interact and make new friends is in bars in Australia.
    There is a big drinking culture, but I have friends who don’t drink. Just don’t announce it like you’re judging drinkers, expect a lot of drinking and go to bars (avoiding bars in summer could ruin your social life!)
    and order a soft drink. Also don’t be surprised if people say, ‘oh, you don’t drink?’. Just be honest.

    Hey that reminds me: Marika is it true that to Australian women us book loving nerds are overlooked for the surfer types because we are considered boring?
    There isn’t just one type of woman in Australia! And it’s a very multicultural country. You’ll be fine ☺
    I think the main advice should be to be relatively relaxed, self-effacing and humble. Oh and sarcastic but in a fun way!

  8. 28
    JD

    A man’s biggest fear in online dating is that he won’t even recognize the girl because she looks so different from her photos. Why? Because women are INSANELY DISHONEST in online dating!

    Unfortunately, too many women don’t seem to appreciate that anyone besides themselves has dating problems worth worrying about.

    1. 28.1
      GoWiththeFlow

      JD,

      “Because women are INSANELY DISHONEST in online dating!”

      “Unfortunately, too many women don’t seem to appreciate that anyone besides themselves has dating problems worth worrying about.”

      It’s all a part of our evil misandrist #MeToo conspiracy to protect the matriarchy.

    2. 28.2
      lapistolle

      Men are also INSANELY DISHONEST in online dating. Photos that are 20 years old. Photos with hats to disguise baldness. Photos with “Myspace angles” to disguise morbid obesity. They use all of the same tricks women do.

  9. 29
    Angel

    I have had two superficial guys ghost me after asking for a pic that wasn’t on my dating site page. Because evidently I did not measure up. What made it so bad, was that these guys were not my first choices…they were not my exact type, heck, they were below my standard. But, I hadn’t dated in a while, so I took the  attitude “oh, what the heck”.

    Only to feel absolutely humiliated.

    I am a very attractive woman, and don’t have issues meeting men. But I have a very busy lifestyle and don’t get out enough to meet them personally. So, I decided to try online dating.

    I get a lot of attention. But I’ve noticed a very bad habit of men asking for a pic before getting to know me. Unfortunately, I haven’t mastered the selfies like some women because I have a lot more things going on in my life beside narcissism. No offense to anyone who does take a lot, im just flabbergasted by the gall of men who treat women like an object.

    Your writing implies that it’s the digital age. And that we should get over it…

    really????!

    Since when is being rude an excuse for that?

    The next guy who asks for a pic will get a photo of a baboon and his number erased. How about the guy take a risk meet up for a coffee and not be a D*ck!

    1. 29.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Sounds like you’ve got this one covered, Angel. Good luck with that dating strategy.

      1. 29.1.1
        Angel

        Ha ha!

        I know what you are saying.

        Seriously though, I agree that I have no strategy. I was woefully pained and was writing from a confused and hurtful state. I felt that I was being rejected before they could get to know me. I suppose, in hindsight it’s best to know   how a person is now, rather than later.

        I know that people on the online dating site (both men and women), get flooded with options. But I’m noticing that their behavior is reflecting that based on how they inter-act. I’m probably guilty of that to.

        So then, if someone was to take me offline, and ask me to send a verifying picture…how should I respond?

         

        1. SparklingEmerald

          Hi Angel

          When I was in OLD, I put 2 very recent photos and DATED them at the top of my profile, one full length and one close up. Very clear and accurate photos.   The rest of the pictures were “action” pictures, in reverse chronilogical order, dated.   By action pics, I mean like me riding a bike in a charity ride, in an art museum, or as a character onstage (I used to do community theater).   Some of the pics really didn’t reflect much what I looked like, but did show aspects of my personality and interests.   All dated.   Some went back a few years, and also gave a good idea of how I had “aged” over a period of 3-5 years. If I was having a good correspondence with someone, I would “lure” them offline by shooting an e-mail along the lines of “Hey, let’s take this to our private e-mails.   Reply to me at xxxxx.net and I’ll send you some photos of a sassy character I played onstage”.

          Don’t look at the request for more pictures as objectifying you, look at it as a way to get to know each other better.   After all, do you (you general) ask for more info than what was given in the online profile ?   And if you OFFER additional pics as a way to move from the dating site to personal e-mails, you get ahead of the game.   Save a few cute pics for OFFLINE.   Tell the guy something like “Only special guys get to see these pics of me in my hiking shorts” or whatever.   These guys want to see more of you.   Use that to your advantage.

    2. 29.2
      ScottH

      Essentially, you’re saying, “I’m very attractive and everyone should just know it even though I’m not demonstrating it with real evidence (pictures). ”   Dating is hard enough and guys don’t want to waste their time on unknown entities, especially with all the old pics and misrepresentation.   On top of that, there might be very attractive women who just aren’t right for a particular guy.   I see attractive women all the time who spark no interest in me.   They’re not my type.   If you want to stand out, do as Sparkling Emerald says, but I would have more than the two close up pics.   There’s a lot to be said about reading a person’s expressions.   Mine is similar to what she says and I’ve been told a few times that my profile is well above average.     But again, I’m not every woman’s cup of tea.

      1. 29.2.1
        SparklingEmerald

        Dating is hard enough and guys don’t want to waste their time on unknown entities, especially with all the old pics and misrepresentation.

        Yes, I’ve met with men who obviously used pics that were at least 10 years and 40 pounds ago.   I just skipped the ones where every picture was in a ball cap and sunglasses. Or my personal fave, guys with NO pictures, and then say that they had some sort of job that prevented them from posting pictures, but would say “But I am attractive”.   (I have seen that excuse in more than one profile, so apparently it is a thing)   My husband had the same experience online.   Old pics, pictures of someone ELSE (one of his dates said she didn’t have any pics of herself, so she used a pic of her sister WTF ?????)

        Sometimes I think he fell in love with me, because I looked just like my picture.   (I even wore the same outfit as one of the pictures). He said that the first thing he thought when he first laid eyes on me for our initial meet and greet was “Wow, she looks just like her picture !”

        I really don’t get people who lie about their age, post pics of themselves when they were 15 years younger, had a full head of hair, or were 50 pounds lighter.   The truth will come out when meeting face to face.   Better to post accurate pictures and attract someone who likes the way you look NOW.

         

        1. ScottH

          I have come to believe that people who are wearing sunglasses in their main profile pic is a clear red flag.   And people wearing sunglasses AND a hat are red infernos.   Maybe an exception here and there, maybe…

          As for profiles with no pics, I generally ignore those.   One woman who had no pics wrote that she was a teacher and didn’t want her pic out there and then something about not doing it out of insecurity.   She messaged me first so I asked her for a pic, not expecting much, and it turned out that she was insanely smoking hot.   We met for a date and weren’t a match for various reasons.

          I make a strong effort to have clear, recent, date stamped pictures so as to avoid the situation you mentioned.   You’re right, false advertising is a terrible way to start.   I once was walking to a meet and I pass a woman on the sidewalk and hear my name.   I saw her but didn’t think anything of it and she turned out to be the one I was meeting.   Her pics were very very old, not to mention that she was super creepy otherwise.   I was pissed.

          So another theory of mine is that we tend to fantasize about the person in the profile before we meet.   We hope that this is THE ONE and we can get off this terrible merry go round.   If the profile is accurate, then it puts legs on the fantasy and things start to get energized and exciting.   If the person is not like the fantasy we’ve built in our heads, it becomes just another of many disappointments.

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