Men Are Honest. You’re Just Not Listening.

Men Are Honest. You’re Just Not Listening.
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I take my job as your personal trainer for love very seriously.

I try to honor and respect every woman who reads my emails and offer advice that is honest but not too brutal.

But I have to admit, from time to time, I get an email that makes me roll my eyes.

The most recent one was as mercifully short as it was inane. All it said was this:

“What does it mean when a man says he doesn’t want a relationship with you?”

To the best of my knowledge, this email was not a joke, but it had me thinking about other obvious questions that had only one possible answer.

“What does she mean when she says she’s not at all attracted to me?”

“What does she mean when she says she’s been faking her orgasms with me?”

“What does she mean when she says she’d rather jump out of a moving car than go out on another date with me?”

Now, to be fair, most women don’t give men such rude, point-blank answers.

What do you actually do instead?

You want to see where you stand with a man? Don’t pay attention to how hot your date was. Pay attention to how he handles himself in the next 24-48 hours.

You don’t return his calls in a timely fashion.

You date other men until you find one you like better.

You may go out with him again, but you’re not all that into it.

In short, to keep the peace and avoid conflict, you either do the slow fade (not calling him back immediately), or you continue to see him with reservations about your attraction and excitement.

Are you lying to him? Are you trying to hurt him? Are you a commitmentphobe who has no interest in marriage? Are you fickle and always looking for someone better?

I’m guessing the answer is no to all of the above.

Same with us. Except you have trouble seeing that.

Face it:

Men don’t have to say “I love you” to get you in bed.

Men don’t have to commit to you to get you in bed.

All men have to do to get you in bed is be cute, funny, tall, smart, and successful.

And if that’s the case, and we sleep with you based on attraction alone, regardless of whether we have actual FEELINGS for you, it tends to get a little dicey.

This is not me DEFENDING men; this is me, EXPLAINING men.

Listen, we’re just as shocked as you are when you sleep with us on a second date.

But, as you know, this doesn’t mean we want a relationship with you. It just means that we were having fun, we were tipsy, we took a chance, and we scored.

You want to see where you stand with a man? Don’t pay attention to how hot your date was. Pay attention to how he handles himself in the next 24-48 hours.

Understand that unless he REALLY likes you, the second you leave, he’s thinking about how he can get out of this.

If there have been no phone calls or dates where he takes you out and spends quality time (and money) on you, guess what?

You’re the booty call.

Understand that he DOESN’T want to hurt you.

Understand that he DOESN’T want you to fall in love with him.

Understand that he DOES want to keep sleeping with you because it’s in HIS self-interest.

And understand that everything he does next is designed to keep you INTERESTED in him without allowing you to fall in LOVE with him.

If he’s excited about you and wants you to be his girlfriend, he’ll call you the next day to say, “I had fun, when can I take you out to dinner this week?”

If he’s already planning his exit strategy, he’s not going to say, “I think we made a mistake. Good luck in life.” He’s more likely going to do something like this:

– A one-line text to follow up.
– A few days of silence afterwards because he doesn’t want you to get attached.
– Another text a few days later to say he’s thinking of you, but he’s been busy.
– A text a week later at 9pm to ask what you’re doing right now.

If there have been no phone calls or dates where he takes you out and spends quality time (and money) on you, guess what?

You’re the booty call.

And your guy is trying to find that delicate balance of keeping you in his life without you falling hard for him.

This is why I’m saying that men are being honest with you.

He’s not talking about meeting your family.
He’s not talking about taking you away to Paris.
He’s not talking about the names of your kids.
He’s not talking about love and marriage.
Hell, he’s not even talking about dinner and a movie!

He’s mostly keeping in touch with texts and hoping that you coast on your attraction to him without ever second guessing his lack of effort.

He hasn’t lied to you. He hasn’t promised you anything. He hasn’t done anything after sleeping with you that indicates that he’s serious about you.

So, reward this kind man for trying to protect your feelings by…

CUTTING HIM OFF ENTIRELY.

“It’s been fun knowing you, Dan, but I’m looking for a boyfriend, not a sexting buddy. Best of luck in the future.”

He’ll do one of two things:

1) Pick up the phone and call you because you have a burgeoning relationship that’s worth preserving and he can’t stand to let you go.

Or, in all likelihood…

2) He’ll text you, “That sux! Too bad. I understand though. Good luck to you!”

Really, men don’t want to hurt you. Just like you don’t want to hurt them.

So stop blaming them for sleeping with and texting you.

If you start listening to their silences, you can finally hear the whole truth.

Join our conversation (587 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 21
    moe

    People are dumb. I dont ever sleep around UNLESS hes already my man. Why cant people close their legs and open their mind first?
    After reading this article, I just feel sad for all those women who put up with men with these behaviors. Its childish.
    Grow up please.

    1. 21.1
      Vanesa

      AMEN TO THAT!

      1. 21.1.1
        Natalia

        Just one question- He might say he’s serious and then a copule of months later he just disappears. It happened to me! He said he was serious and adventually just stopped calling?!

    2. 21.2
      Jen Q.

      I feel sad for judgmental people.

      1. 21.2.1
        Wbotb

        Me too Jen Q

    3. 21.3
      Destiny

      My thoughts exactly, most women are dumb, dillusional, or drunk, then they wine & cry after the fact.

  2. 22
    Ria

    l think the major problem with this is that there is no woman on earth, who would, subconsciously or consciously,  want to be downgraded or considered as *booty call* in a man ´s mind, esp, if he is cute.  (Show me one woman who does, and drinks are on me).
    Instead, what happens, is that if a charming guy comes along, he makes us feel so good, that we belive, that there is a potential for more. Esp, if we have some problematic relationship history or just plain habbit of wearing rose tinted glasses in times, tht previously has lead into disaster, and we havent learned the lesson.

    Tricky-tricky.  

          

    1. 22.1
      Natalie

      Don’t downgrade the bootycall, sometimes were to busy for a relationship, not ready for a boyfriend or a girlfriend…as, long as, your safe and realize that the relationship is only for sex. Why is there a, problem? If you are honest in your booty call relationship there isn’t a problem. End it when feelings, or, the future goggles go on bc it’s not a bf/gf relationship. But it’s fun and silly till you are ready for something serious. I love a booty call, but drinks are on me 😉

      1. 22.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        It’s not a matter of “downgrading” the booty call, it’s a matter of being honest with ourselves. Rather than being “honest” about a “booty call” relationship, I am being honest, that I do not want that at all. I am ready for something serious now. Why would I waste time that I could be cultivating a real relationship for a booty call ?

        I would rather bide my time with my hobbies, spending time with friends and family and home improvement, than in a dead end booty call non-relationship.

        That’s just me. Different strokes for different folks.

        1. Natalie

          This is true,  If you know you are ready for a relationship don’t waste time in a dead end relationship, booty call or mess around with people playing around.
          I was referring to how “Ria” Comment “l think the major problem with this is that there is no woman on earth, who would, subconsciously or consciously,  want to be downgraded or considered as *booty call* in a man ´s mind, esp, if he is cute.”
          I am being realistic, it would not be healthy for me on a personal level to be in or actively pursing Mr. Right, right now, I just ended a 4 year relationship. I am young, and need to focus on bettering my self my career, goals and ambitions right now instead of putting my time and energy into another relationship or pursing, I casually go out (every so often).
          I know and am fully aware when someone feels they are “playing” me or “scoring” (if I so choose to sleep with someone) Where they feel they have outwitted, charmed or seduced me into bed, the simple fact of the matter, I know its not a relationship, I know I won’t be seeing them everyday for the rest of my life, and I know I probably won’t be seeing them 6 months from now, maybe not a month from now, And that could just be a date, not sleeping with someone, With a booty call in mind, its fun, and generally both party’s are doing their damn best to play the other party, to get what they want from the bootycall arrangement they have. Its fun and games, silliness till your ready to move on to something more sophisticated, to a potential life partner, and lets face it till your ready for that, you can get a little lonely.
          My problem inlays with the word Booty Call, as if the word was a sin in itself, we live in a very progressive age, and when the word booty call is used, it is assumed the person in question in a female, well I booty call, men. what I am trying to get across is that don’t use the word booty call, and make it a negative when it isn’t necessarily a negative, and if you are sure as hell don’t apply it to only women.  

  3. 23
    anna

    Women should also listen (read) to Dr. Path Allen.  
    Strongly  recommend  her to understand why you should not sleep with a men unless you are in  committed  relationship. there is actual science with  hormones  and  chemicals  behind it.

    1. 23.1
      Wbotb

      I’m living proof that this science you speak of is not up to date.

      1. 23.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        You’re living proof that the broken clock is right twice a day. If I jumped off the top of my house and lived to tell about it, does that mean jumping off the top of one’s house is a smart and considered choice? I’ve had more than my share of first date sex. I’m not remotely judgmental about the act itself. I will point out, ad nauseum, that you are more likely to make a relationship mistake when you fuck a stranger than if you take a month to get to know him first. I don’t see anything remotely debatable about this, unless you think you gather LESS information over time with someone.

        1. Wbotb

          I’ve seen more relationships break up when sex was put off for several months. It’s not natural. My head is more clear once I have sex with a man because I’m not constantly thinking about sex when I’m with him. Someone’s true colors will show much faster.

  4. 24
    Julie

    When my ex said “I don’t want to marry you” I tried to reason with him that maybe he just needed more time, the next morning I woke up and ended it with him. From that point I promised I would take men at their words. A man means what he tells you, you can’t convince him otherwise.

  5. 25
    Emma

    Evan, or Karl (because you’re just as wise),

    How do you word it to a guy that you want exclusivity/commitment first before sex without it coming off as an ultimatum?

    And, do you bring up the subject casually or wait until you think sex is imminent?  

    1. 25.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Emma, please, pick up a copy of Why He Disappeared. Everything you want to know is in there. And there’s a money-back guarantee if you’re not satisfied.

  6. 26
    Nicole

    It’s weird how women think they can sneak their way into a relationship by sleeping with someone and then just passively hoping it makes him your boyfriend.

    A man who wants to be your boyfriend won’t be ambiguous about it.   

    Sleeping with someone and then being scared to ask what it means is your answer.   You can’t “rock” anything with someone who isn’t dating you, and being passive but making yourself available for sex isn’t a way to backdoor your way into having an actual boyfriend/relationship.   

    So you should be calm and easygoing and let someone who wants to be with you step to the plate, but you should not SLEEP with someone who hasn’t made it clear that he is committed to you and then think that it makes him your boyfriend b/c you don’t “pester” him.   

    It’s not contradictory to anything else that is on this site.   Too many women think they can have sex with someone and then get shocked when it doesn’t turn into anything more.   

    I think the Millionaire Matchmaker is batty as hell but I saw two episodes of her show and saw a girl who broke the rule about not having sex, which Patty also says you should save for a committed, monogamous relationship.   The girl was shocked and hurt that she slept with the man quickly and then when she asked about a relationship/where they were headed, he was like, “who knows?”   I mean, really, why is that even surprising?  

    Keep your legs closed until you have a talk about it ladies.   The man who doesn’t want to let you get away will let you know it and you don’t have to bug the hell out of him.   Then you know it’s safe to drop your panties.  

    I think the woman above who slept with the man on date 5/2.5 weeks won’t get what she is after either.   If it was safe to do it, you wouldn’t have to wonder after the fact.

  7. 27
    Tina

    Wow, this article is exactly for me, because   as if it mostly describes my last relationship (or non-relationship).  
      
    Yes, he was not talking about love and marriage, but he was talking about taking you me to Paris and Vienna.
      
    Yes, he was not talking about the names of our kids, but he was talking about how special i am to him and that he definitely wants to play a part in my life.
      
    And yeah, he hasn’t promised me anything…except that he promised me that we will meet each other in future and we will be in serious relationship then…’You will see that I’m telling you the truth and we will be together’, said he to me many times.
      
    So, many thanks for this advice Evan: CUTTING HIM OFF ENTIRELY.
    Yes, I will. Finally.

  8. 28
    Dave

    The line: Men don’t want to hurt women, is probably as true as how women hate to hurt men. Great article!

  9. 29
    Androgynous

    Sprial, not all men are comfortable using women for sex so you don’t have to feel sad or disillusioned. A hell of a lot of men would just let it go if they find they were not interested in a woman, rather than take advantage of someone who is so obviously keen on them, and who would go the distance in the delusion of a possible relationship. These men have honor and if nothing else, they don’t want the messiness and drama and trauma of having to deal with a distraught woman who thought she was being led up the garden path. They don’t think the resulting fallout of their actions are worth the momentary transient pleasures of the flesh.  
    The men described here by Evan are players and thankfully, there are not too many of them out there.

    1. 29.1
      Mas Ruo

      Hear hear!

    2. 29.2
      Wbotb

      That’s a very logical observation. I totally agree. Even the men that are not so great  are not going to lie to a woman to make her feel better. It’s definitely the minority, the players that do that.

  10. 30
    Dagaz

    allow me to add few comments regarding waiting for sex/no sex on first dates etc.
    i’ve been married twice – in both cases those were men i had sex with on the first date basically (before we were meeting casually among friends), and i didn’t initiate at all their decisions to propose.
    my worst relationship ever was one where i was waiting for sex for 5 month. when it’s finally happened, it became obvious that it’s dead-end relationship, add here the broken heart, heh))
    chris60 mentioned correctly: it doesn’t matter, at all, for how the relationship will unfold in the future.
      

    1. 30.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Dagaz, a few questions:

      You hopped into bed with two men who later became your ex-husbands.

      How quickly after meeting them did you get married? How long did those marriages last? And what was the reason that they broke up? Thanks for sharing.

      1. 30.1.1
        Billy

        All are chemistry. If a good, then maybe brinks you to marrie. No way the reason of how early or not having sex.

      2. 30.1.2
        Wbotb

        Are you seriously inferring that both her marriages broke up because of first date sex??? Seriously???

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          No. I’m saying what is both obvious to any observer and validated by science: chemistry is not a great predictor of your future.

          If you hop into bed with a stranger who later becomes your husband, you’re LUCKY; it is not, however, a smart strategy for creating long-term relationships. Your success is largely in spite of your choice to sleep with a stranger, not because of your choice to sleep with a stranger.

        2. Wbotb

          Relationships should not have to need a  strategy.  When we meet people, we don’t sit there and calculate. It just happens. That’s how relationships become successful.

        3. Wbotb

          @Evan, why does that make me lucky? I think that makes HIM lucky.

    2. 30.2
      Destiny

      Dagaz – ‘were’ you said correctly, no wonder you are divorced twice.     you don’t value yourself as a person, and those exes see you as a piece of meat not as a human being.   For a healthy relationship to flourish, it goes behond sex.   Maybe you are the one with the issue, let’s hear the ex’s side of their story, as it takes two to tango.

      1. 30.2.1
        Tatyana

        Imagine you have got that guy who treated everyone else as a meat, but you as a princess. Do you know how fast he will start treating you the same way? I do. That’s because it’t a LIE that men treat us the way we let them. They treat us based on who they are: jerks and assholes. My second husband did just that. After short time AFTER we got married, he simply said: ok, I can’t do it any more I have to be myself..” What that meant…he started treated me just like he treats the rest of world, like shit!

        1. Wbotb

          Very true Tatyana. They may pretend to respect you at first and when you enforce your boundaries, you can put off his jerky behavior a little longer. Eventually he will get tired of it and he will find a way to make himself comfortable enough to let his true colors out. People can only put up an act for so long. Better to find out sooner than later. You can lay down the law all you want. They’ll respect you to your face, but be a jerk behind your back.

      2. 30.2.2
        Wbotb

        Whoa! I cannot believe you’re attacking this woman for what you shared. Never mind that she mentioned that when she waited 5 months, that broke off way sooner. Are you judging everyone who gets divorced? Who are you to judge? Do you know how many times her exes have been married? No you don’t. Who the heck are you to say she doesn’t value herself as a person. You are no one to degrade anyone. Put a cork in it!

        1. Marika

          Wbotb,

          We get it. You like sex. You think sex should happen early on. Your point is crystal clear. These types of posts aren’t for you. You don’t need to have an exclusivity talk before having sex. Some of us do and are grateful for this advice.

          If I love fish, I’m not going to go on a blog that’s about the pros and cons of fish and where/when to eat fish and the potential risks of fish and just keep saying over and over that I love fish & everybody should eat fish….

           

  11. 31
    Dagaz

    @Karl R, #19
    bravo))
    agree to every word.
    as Bob Marley said:

    “The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”

  12. 32
    hespeler

    Androdynous #32

    Great post!   I agree with every word.

  13. 33
    Anonymous

    Evan, I’m a lesbian and I can’t thank you enough for this article. I just got out of a 1 year relationship with a wonderful woman who for so many reasons (her first ever relationship, was not out yet, unhealed childhood wounds, etc) had all these walls up. It wasn’t a matter of me being a booty call, because we WERE genuinely in love and totally respect each other, but there were just these other things that had to be addressed and dealt with before we could move forward. Those signs that you mentioned were there that showed me how unimportant I was to her. She didn’t spend the Holidays with me, didn’t seem to mind if we didn’t speak everyday and making quality time for dates and intimacy just didn’t seem like a priority for her even after almost a year together. She would use the old ‘I was so busy at work’ excuse. So it’s possible that a person can be wonderful and love you, but still be unwilling or unable to really give the relationship what it needs to thrive. I was more than a booty call, but she was unwilling or unable to step up and I’m so glad I know this now. I knew she was committed to monogamy, but not committed to the relationship like a growing sacred union. She would do just enough work to keep me. There was a lot of push and pull. She had trust issues and tested me constantly. She could turn the most innocent interaction into some type of betrayal where she was the victim. She was so afraid to love fully, not just me, but anyone. I know she didn’t want to hurt me, but she wasn’t up for the next level and as hard as it was to have it end, I’m glad I know the truth. Because I had questions. I saw signs, there were clues. I asked her and she always swore I was important but those little things just weren’t there. Maybe our destiny is to be friends or maybe our time of knowing each other is over. I don’t know. She broke up with me in such an angry, unkind and demeaning way that we are not speaking and I am not chasing her. But thanks for validating the questions I was having throughout. My heart is devastated and broken, but I’m so glad I know.

    1. 33.1
      rachel

      This describes EXACTLY what I just went through with a boyfriend. Such a tricky situation but I’m glad you figured it out 🙂  

  14. 34
    Dagaz

    @Evan :
    i knew you will ask those questions))
    ok.
    first marriage was for 8+ years, wonderful child, my ex is a good guy, we just grew in very different directions, i didn’t want to hold both of us in stalling(though quite good marriage) and eventually broke up with him.
    we’ve got married a bit over a year after our first date.
    my second marriage was 3 years, my ex#2 simply couldn’t adapt himself living in US as an immigrant (it’s really hard, by the way), and i cut him loose)  
    we’ve got married 2 years after our first date (he was going through divorce first)
    both my exes didn’t want to end marriages, it’s toward your possible question).
      

    1. 34.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      And without knowing anything about you, Dagaz, I would submit that if you didn’t get married so fast, you could have learned what kind of partner those men would be. The speed of rushing into bed and the speed of marriage is correlated to the inevitable divorce, in my opinion. You’d know better, but I always encourage for women to wait for exclusivity for sex and to wait at least two years before getting engaged…

    2. 34.2
      Wbotb

      I don’t think it’s natural to wait so long for sex. You can think clearer without the curiosity of what sex will be like with him.  As you explained the are several other reasons that a marriage can break up and having sex early on is probably last on the list.

  15. 35
    Amanda Morrison

    Evan, I know you are married, but I’m in love with you for this blog! It succinctly resolved the nagging thoughts have had for the past 2 years with my long distance, work a holic, non-boyfriend. He made it sound so good… he’s too busy for a relationship ‘now’ and works so much he’s not dating anyone else, so I was his ‘fantasy girl’ and ‘the hottest he’d ever been with.’ I chose flattery over sanity and found myself in a constant emotional mess. Which was great because then I had to listen to him say ‘how could I want a relationship with someone so emotional. let’s just have fun because I’m so attracted to you.’

    The good news is, I’m awake now. And this blog is a perfect reminder of why I won’t godown that road again. I don’t blame him or me. It was the most valuable learning experience for showing me what I want!

    Thanks again for the great blog!!!
    -Amanda

  16. 36
    Karl R

    Emma said: (#27)
    “How do you word it to a guy that you want exclusivity/commitment first before sex without it coming off as an ultimatum?”

    I’ve never had to say it to a guy before.

    However, when I was bringing up the topic with women, I’d usually wait until a conversation had gotten on the topic of sex for other reasons. As part of the conversation, I’d mention that I had slept around a bit when I was younger, but I’d decided that didn’t particularly appeal to me. Since then, I had decided to  only have sex within exclusive relationships.

    I would also mention that I’d been able to stick to that decision with almost every girlfriend since then. (Even though I didn’t place any additional stress on the word  “almost,” every woman picked up on it. This was part of my intent. It  subtly implied  that sex didn’t imply exclusivity … just in case she ended up being another exception. It also made me seem nonjudgmental of people who didn’t necessarily wait for exclusivity.)

    Dagaz said: (#33)
    “chris60 mentioned correctly: it doesn’t matter, at all, for how the relationship will unfold in the future.”

    I would say that’s partially true. There are  some exceptions, but in most cases, waiting for exclusivity neither increases nor deacreses the chance of the relationship succeeding in the long run.

    On the other hand, it decreases the number of dates you have sex with.

    1. A lot of men and women get more hurt/upset if they’re dumped by someone who they’ve had sex with. This way, they’re dumped before they have sex.

    2. A lot of women (and some men) don’t like being used as a regular booty call. If someone was considering using you for sex, they’ll move on and find someone who doesn’t require exclusivity.

    3. A lot of men and women get upset if their partner is having sex with multiple partners. They feel cheated on, even if there was no agreement of exclusivity. If you wait until there’s explicit exclusivity, you avoid this misunderstanding.

    4. Some men and women assume that a relationship is serious or exclusive because there was sex. If you wait until it is, you avoid that misunderstanding.

    5. A lot of men and women have their decision-making clouded by great sex. If their judgment is impaired, they’re more likely to overlook toxic behavior in a relationship that they would otherwise run from.

    That’s five different ways in which you can  potentially decrease the likelihood of being hurt, or decrease the amount of pain felt.

  17. 37
    nathan

    Evan, how is 1-2 years after first meeting rushing? First date sex often is usually not the best approach to developing long term relationships, and I’d agree with your cautions against it in your dating practice. However, I don’t agree that Dagaz rushed into getting married. I doubt waiting another year would have prevented her from getting married to either of her ex’s. Sometimes, it takes some serious mistakes to learn how to read people better, and choose more wisely.
    I do disagree with Dagaz’ statement that “it doesn’t matter” when it comes to sex. Many of us need to make more conscious decisions around sexual intimacy, and usually that means waiting longer than a couple of dates. However, it also makes a major difference how the person enters your life, how long you’ve known them before, and also what contexts you’ve seen them interacting in. Meeting a stranger from an online dating site is much different from being introduced to a good friend of a friend, for example.  
      
      

    1. 37.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Nathan: The “attraction” phase of love lasts for 1 1/2 to 3 years. That’s when you’re still riding the dopamine and serotonin high, and are often willing to overlook bad behaviors. It’s when people are still caught in the haze of being “in love” and haven’t stopped to contemplate whether they can really live together, can deal with the mundane day to day things, the decrease in sex drive, the bad moods, the financial woes, the illnesses, the family obligations. I sincerely feel the relationships that are the safest bet to endure are the ones where they spent 2-3 years before getting engaged, not ones where they get married before 2 years and then are shocked to find out that they’re incompatible for the next thirty years.

      1. 37.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        This sounds like my story EXACTLY. Married when we were still flying high on that new love buzz. I must admit, I had a BLISSFUL first five or so years. (new baby was second wave of brain chemical induced euphoria) but now as I sit here in the tattered remains of the marriage (D to be final next month ! Yay !) I really do wonder what I ever saw in him. I call him my fair weather husband, we had the bad moods, illnesses and family obligations (bad moods caused mainly by family obligations). He was all to glad to lean on my shoulder when his parents passed away, when he was ill, or accept comfort from me when he was in a bad mood due to work. However, whenever our son or I got ill, we got nothing from him but scorn and derision. When my mother took ten years to die & I took it hard, he said he resented my family for “taking away his wife” If I had seen THAT side of him, during dating, I would run for the hills. I should have run for the hills when I did see that side, but I felt trapped, with a child and house, and also, I did make a vow and I really did want to keep it.

      2. 37.1.2
        NiceOne

        So what happens tothe ones who stay togethere for 3+ years (or decade) and divorce after a year?  

  18. 38
    Dagaz

    @Evan: of course, i took my time to learn about a man.  
    i took the liberty to talk about my own experience simply to avoid too much generalization regarding sex on first dates vs proposal/marriage, and as i’ve seen so far, there were no correlation of sex on first dates and divorce.
    from what i know (sources are my own life(sorry, again) and experiences of my clients), for marriage it’s not that important when the sex has started, it is how in develops inside the relationship, and there are a lot more things to think about and to stick to in the married life than to recall the beginning (and who said it could be recalled only negatively, it might be as well one of the sweetest memories for both)?
    if to dig into correlation first dates/divorce rate, i would notice mostly what role man played from the beginning: was he an initiator/hunter/alpha(if you’d like))), or this role was taken by a woman.
    also, two years of waiting before marriage is a very, very generalized thing, IMO. what if it’s a long distance relationship? what if there’re specific circumstances that don’t allow people to see each other 3 times per week? there are much more exceptions to this rule,   than we can see on the surface. even in “regular” case some people need much more time, some of them need less to be ready for “i do”.
    i would draw the line not in the time, but in the condition inside the relationship, and it’s strictly unique condition every time, because it is formed by very two unique personalities.
    otherwise dating coaches wouldn’t have the personal sessions with their clients 😉
      

  19. 39
    Ria

    I have had the opposite experiences: after learning the art of actually LISTENING what  guys say (a la  lm not ready for marriage/commitment, and/or let us just see, where it s going, etc)  l have acted accordingly – telling the guys, lm off, because as they said, they are not ready, then they are not ready, so l better listen. Result is exactly the opposite –   at some point they have said they are *in love,* ready to *commit,* and   *talk of the future.* That, however, does not convince me any more to change my mind, but it has given me one benefit   – l can actually get to know the guys without the romcom fuzz and get to know them as person and  realize wether  they can be good friends or potential for    more.

    Yes, the temptaton   to ignore what he says, is there, especially if the guy is cute,  successful and hotttt and all that    but  the more  girls should listen.  
        

  20. 40
    Heather

    Evan, I hear what you’re saying and I think that it’s pretty true.

    However, I just wonder why men assume, if they “don’t want to hurt us”, that just disappearing is the answer?   I find the disappearing more hurtful and rude than the actual truth.   I’d rather hear the truth and just be told “this isn’t working for me” than just being ignored.   I find it condescending actually.   To me it is like, “Well, I just *know* she’ll act all crazy, cry, etc so I’ll just keep her from doing that and addling her pretty little head.”

    I do not go crazy or act crazy if a guy tells me this is not going to work.   Oh sure, I’ve had a few instances where they told me that and then said in the next sentence that “they still hoped we could be friends” and to those I would basically tell em, sorry, but my friends don’t treat me like crap, so no, we will NOT be friends, buh bye now.”   But when a guy says that’s it, that’s it.   I immediately erase all texts, contact info, block or remove from Facebook, etc.

    I just find it rather insulting behavior.   If I can “woman up” and tell a guy that I don’t like him, then I fully expect mature and honest behavior out of a guy.   And if I don’t get it, then if he does rear his head again, he’s told that I’m definitely not interested.

    1. 40.1
      Mas Ruo

      I don’t get it on the one hand you want the guy to be honest with you and tell you that this did not work out for him but I’m the very same sentence you obliterate him from existence. Is all you see in man the potential fora husband? (Not that I’m one to talk. Where I come from friendships between men and women are total taboo. I find it ridiculous)

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