Thoughts on MRAs, MGTOWs, and the Manosphere

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The manosphere – for those of you not in the know – is a collection of blogs written by men, for men. Their complaint is generally that women (especially American women) are awful. They’re too picky. They’re too independent. They’re not feminine. They’re not appreciative. They’re emasculating. They’re ball-busting. And these men are sick of it.

Thus, MGTOW: “men going their own way,” and MRA’s: “men’s rights activists.”

These men are angry and frustrated with the opposite sex, and instead of turning inward, they spend their time talking about how women are useless except for sex, only worthwhile when they’re in their 20’s, and are generally better in places like Thailand, where many of them have gone to get laid or pick up a bride. One thing is for sure about MGTOWs: they want you to know that they are not losers. In their minds, they are the guys who have it all figured out. The ones who took the “red pill” of truth, like in the Matrix. They frequently talk about how much money they make, how strong they are, how much younger their girlfriends are. They use big words like “hypergamy” to illustrate their intellect.   If you disagree with them, you are a feminist, or worse, a “mangina.”

The manosphere is like the feminist blogosphere. They have some very valid ideas that are dwarfed by their monolithic thinking and negativity towards the opposite sex.

For a long time, I’ve wanted to write a blog about the manosphere.  But you know what? Every time I think about it, it feels like a time suck. So, without further ado, let me share this well written blog post with you that does my job for me.

The short version of the above link is this:

The manosphere is like the extreme wing of the feminist blogosphere. They have some very valid ideas that are dwarfed by their monolithic thinking and negativity towards the opposite sex. It’s not that MRA’s are “bad,” it’s that you can almost hear their impotence in every word they type. They turn a stereotype into a caricature. Suddenly, it’s a not a complaint about some women, it’s a complaint about all women. Go to a MGTOW blog and every post dissects women and tries to explain how psychologically screwed up they are, instead of trying to understand and empathize with them.

Part of the reason I feel so strongly about this blog is because I take great pains to provide validation, insight and empathy. Are women correct when they complain about men? Sometimes. But sometimes you’re not. Sometimes, you’re making a big deal about nothing. Sometimes, you are the common denominator in your own problems. This doesn’t seem to have dawned on the manosphere – that women may be reacting negatively to them as individuals as opposed to “women are selfish.”

You know how I tell women to trust men, see the best in men, be a more generous girlfriend and choose men of greater integrity? I would tell the MGTOWs to do the exact same thing. Their complaints about the opposite sex may be somewhat valid, but so what? Eventually you have to look in the mirror and ask why your choice of partners is so consistently disappointing. Choose different women instead of spending 24/7 talking about how much women suck.

Your thoughts on MRAs, MGTOWs and other male-centric acronyms, are appreciated below.

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Comments:

  1. 61
    Timmy

    What a great discussion.    All I can add:

    Is that marriage is not for everyone.   We have known this for thousands of years.   It is in the Bible, even.

    People have a lot of unrealistic expectations of marriage and what they are looking for in a partner.

    In the current gender war, everyone who   participates is a causality.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  2. 62
    Tron Swanson

    I’m a MGTOW. That said, I can’t say that I “spend 24/7 talking about how much women suck.” The whole point of going your own way is to get away from female-caused stress, not to dwell on it. As I’ve decreased the emphasis on women in my life, I’ve become a much happier person. Yeah, I do complain or brood from time to time, but only for a short time each day.

    I wish that I’d discovered MGTOW fifteen years ago. I wasted so much time on energy on things that never paid off for me…

    1. 62.1
      Lynx

      I’m asking this in a sincere way, truly, I’m trying to understand. Why do you spend time on this blog? It would seem like a blog for women who want to be in long-term relationships would cause you to add “female-caused stress” to your life?

      1. 62.1.1
        Tron Swanson

        I like reading about different points of view. Also, I like contributing to discussions, to make sure that as many points-of-view as possible are represented. Women are a major issue I have to deal with in my everyday life, sadly, so it’s good for me to think about the issue and try to figure it out. It can be stressful…which is why I limit it to maybe ten minutes a day. The fact that I spend only ten minutes per day trying to understand women, well, that tells you why I’m single…

        1. Lynx

          Thanks for the explanation. Ron Swanson had Leslie Knope, maybe your time here will at least help you make a good female friend, eventually!   😉

  3. 63
    Gen

    It seems to me that MGTOW and Feminism both have issues with sexist behavior.

    The problem is MGTOW blames feminism for this, misunderstanding feminism’s true purpose.  

    The purpose   (one purpose) of feminism is to stop putting women on a pedestal. Gloria Steinem said, “A pedestal is just as confining as a prison.” I believe she is right. If women are seen as wholesome, helpless, emotional, and pure…it limits their opportunities to make their life successful on their own.

    Accoding to understandingprejudice.com, nearly as many women as men are prone to hold “benevolent sexist” ideas. Women who believe they should be treated differently/better than a man are sexist women. MGTOW has problems with this, so do all the rest of these groups to my knowledge. But what they don’t realize is feminism has a problem with this, too. We have long said patriarchy hurts men, too.

    Just give credit where it’s due, is all I’m saying. I like how Evan said MRA and company are a branch of Feminism.

  4. 64
    Karl R

    My thoughts on MGTOW:

    I can understand how these guys feel … but I don’t understand how they act.

     

    I’ve been the awkward teen who didn’t have any luck dating, and who didn’t have any idea that there was information that could make dating easier (much less where to find it). For a number of  years, giving up on dating was the easier, happier, and sanity-preserving course of action.

    Going my own way … it made sense.

     

    Why is it a movement?

    When I went my own way, I went my own way.

    I didn’t need a few hundred (or thousand) guys to hold my hand. I didn’t need an acronym/label. I didn’t need a mission statement. I didn’t need to convince other guys that they should do the same thing. I didn’t need other guys to convince me that I should go my own way.

    And at no point (whether I was going my own way or not) have I needed to hear updates from some other guy who was going his own way.

     

    If a guy (who has opted out of dating) wants to socialize with other men (while avoiding women), there are a wide assortment  of male-dominated hobbies where this is easy to accomplish. If you go to a gun range, you will encounter very few women. If you play Dungeons and Dragons, you will encounter even fewer.

    So what’s the point of the MGTOW movement?

    1. 64.1
      GoWiththeFlow

      Karl R,

      I don’t get the whole movement thing either.   During the years I was in the adoption process, I met many women who decided that they really sucked at the whole dating thing and that maybe it was a sign they were meant to be single.   They busied themselves with their jobs, hobbies, or became more active daughter, sisters, and aunties.   The sub-set I met were pursing adoption through an international program or the foster-care system.   They weren’t writing tomes on the internet about how men wronged them or trying to convince other women to dump men and go their own way.   They just quietly went their own way.

    2. 64.2
      Callie

      I don’t think the point is literally going their own way, because if it was then they would just do as you say: leave quietly, support each other if they really needed that group support and carry on happy lives.

      The purpose in their minds is actually to make women feel bad, make a lot of noise and make sure others know how terrible women are. It all comes down ultimately to feeling wronged by women and trying to make it seem like some punishment that all of these guys are not going to be available anymore: mostly it’s “You need us for physical labour and fighting wars, just wait when there are no more men, then you’ll really regret it!” but part of it is also, “You all are now doomed to be single or date only jerks since us good guys are leaving ha!”

      So really it’s not about what they say it’s about. It’s about revenge. It’s getting some of their own back.

      Or so they think. I can literally think of no woman who reads what such men have to say and thinks, “Oh no! Whatever will I do now! I totally blew my chance at a good life with these amazing men now leaving!” Also I can’t imagine a single one of those guys would turn down the chance to get with some hot woman of their dreams in order to stand by their principle of going their own way.

      It’s like “Yeah well I didn’t want to be part of your club anyway!” It’s petulant and pointless. It has made no impression on women at all, and hasn’t adversely affected society either, aside from having to hear them whine every once in a while.

      So basically: what you say makes sense, but what they are doing is not based on sense. It’s based on emotion.

      1. 64.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Callie,

        Also I can’t imagine a single one of those guys would turn down the chance to get with some hot woman of their dreams in order to stand by their principle of going their own way.

        Totally agree.

        What they are doing is not based on sense. It’s based on emotion.

        Which, ironically, has always been considered by society as   a very feminine thing to do.

      2. 64.2.2
        Taylor

        THIS is so TRUE!

        What I hear when another sad MGTOW loser repeating for the hundredth time that day that he’s going his own way and tries to shove it in all our faces is:”hey! hey! Look at me! I’m going my own way! Look, look! I’m going my own way, I don’t need you anymore. Did you hear me? I said I’m going my own way. Why aren’t you reacting? Why don’t you care? Why won’t you pay attention to MEEE!!

        Facepalm.

  5. 65
    CHRISSY

    I was in a relationship with a red pill Mgtow guy who was so cold, uncaring and obsessed with all these online platforms that in my view were encouraging women bashing. Return of Kings, Illimitable Men…yikes. I ended things after 2 whole years and some months. Best decision I have ever made for myself.

  6. 66
    DrSapiens

    There is MGTOWs for everyone. Hence Hugo de Garis who encourage his pupils to be hypergamous

    “I went through 8 women (I think) during my 5 years in the US. All had at least a masters degree and had their own house, own car, own career, own good salary, otherwise I WOULD NOT HAVE DATED THEM, thus I was being very selective in who I went out with and gave my penis to, which by the way, they were all very quick to want from me, having not sexed, most of them, for over a year (or at least that is what they told me.)

    Now, imagine that millions of men really latch on to the idea of twaytweffing as a modern new male lifestyle, and learn that it is critical that they find a FIP female to twaytwef with. So, they learn to prefer FIP females. It is not enough for them to be attracted to a pretty face, with curvy boobs and round fuckable hips. She must definitely also be FIP, so these millions of men learn to check out the women in terms of their earning capacity. That is they become hypergamous as males. They give women a taste of their own hypergamous medicine.”

    Coming from a guy who abandoned his two kids back in Australia because they were such hustle.
    I am a woman. I hold a PhD in computer science. I am engaged and happy. But I do read out of curiosity blogs about how to be a better woman for my partner. Specially because I am Colombian and he is kiwi. I don’t understand well the dynamics here despite I came to study here 6 years ago. In western societies everything is different. Relationships are dry and merely transactional. Reading MGTOW posts in reddit and their manifestos etc make me bend on my knees and thank god for my partner. How did I get so lucky? He got divorced because he cheat on his ex wife multiple times. Poor ex wife was crushed. I was really scared he did the same thing to me but I can’t live in fear. I just can’t, what a waste of life. If he cheats on me well I need to keep moving.

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