If You Are Short, Fat, Older or An Asian Man, You Must Read This. But Especially If You’re Short.
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If you’re a regular reader, you probably knew that I was on the CBS Early Show in July. Appearing with me was one of my all-time favorite clients, Tom Pandolfo. Charming, charismatic, successful, warm, athletic… Tom has it all. The only thing missing in his life is a woman. So, after hiring me as his dating coach, we set to work in rebranding him on Match.com.
We took new professional photos. We had Tom fill out my long questionnaire and submit to an hour of questions from me on the phone. We wrote two new profile essays that were unique, funny and confident. We renamed him “LookMaNoHair.”
And we watched as his in-box filled up with interested women.
You can see what a great experience it was in this CBS Early Show clip:
What I haven’t yet mentioned is that Tom Pandolfo is 5’3″.
Height is irrelevant to anything that makes a man a good husband or father.
I didn’t want to mention it for the same reason that Tom didn’t want to mention it in his profile: because it’s irrelevant to anything that makes him a good accountant, husband, or father. Yet his height defines him, since it has prevented otherwise interested women from being interested in him over the course of his entire life.
This instantly reminded me of a story that ABC did years ago on this very issue.
To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS’ Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who’d made millions by the age of 25.
Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there’d be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, “Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers.” Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she’d have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as “child molesters.”
Lest you think this is an example of reality TV finding evidence to support a story, Tom tried his own experiment last week. Sure enough, few women give a fair shake to a man who is 5’3”, no matter what else he has going for him.
I’m going to let Tom take it from here.
So I tried changing my profile for three days just to see what the difference was between being 5’3″ and 5’10”. I wanted to know if height was the only difference and the constant deal breaker. So I moved my profile from Pittsburgh and posted it for 3 days in a town where nobody knew me (Philadelphia). Here’s what I found:
| 5’3” in Pittsburgh | 5’10” in Philadelphia | |
| Mutual matches | 0 | 80 |
| Reverse matches | 12 | 400 |
| Petite women w/pics w/in 50 miles | 45 | 650 |
| Views in 3 days | 11 | 212 |
| Emails received – unsolicited | 0 | 32 |
| Winks received – unsolicited | 2 | 28 |
| Emails sent out | 6 | 6 |
| Replies received to emails sent out | 0 | 6 |
This proves, in stark and undeniable terms, two things:…
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756 Comments »Filed Under Dating
lady anonymous 1
Honestly? It’s because I like to feel small next to a guy. I’ve been insecure about my weight my whole life. A tall, broad man does wonders for making me feel dainty next to him.
Sam 2
I agree that short men have it very, very hard. The discrimination short men face is more unfair than the discrimination overweight women face since no one has any control over his/her height and being short, unlike being overweight, being short does not mean you are physically incapable of things.
One question I have is why women find it so easy to make a guy feel self-conscious about his height. I’m 5’8” and several women have admitted – before our date = they have reservations about my height, asking me questions like “are you really 5’8”?” I would NEVER make a woman feel bad because of her height or weight, so I do not understand why many women do not give shorter-than-average men the same consideration.
Jaya 3
I’m 5’6.5″ and average weight. Like lady anonymous said, a taller man’s body makes me feel more feminine by comparison.
Conversely, when a man is short enough to nestle into my chest, it feels oddly like having a child in my arms. My ex was about 5’9″ and it was hard to shake that feeling of being a mommy when he’d cuddle into me.
The unspoken thing that vexes me sometimes is how women who are much shorter than me, say 5′ – 5’3″ will only date men who are +6′. What’s up with that? Jeez ladies– Leave some of the really tall guys for us taller women. Why won’t you date the guys who are still a good 5″ taller than you?
timotea 4
Most short guys I know have wicked Napoleon complexes. It may be subconscious or not, but they tend to overcompensate by being overbearing, sanctimonious know-it-alls who are often bitter about women. I feel for them just like I would for an obese woman, but pushiness in a short man tells me he hasn’t gotten over his height and is a major turnoff.
Jessica 5
My friend “T” likes short guys — because she’s 5 foot 5, 108 pounds, with basically no curves at all and has always been super skinny. She likes short guys because they aren’t twice her size.
Along the same lines, most women may not be into short guys because it makes them feel big and heavy. There’s such a strong emphasis on women being small — mostly thin, but also petite — so maybe if it was okay for women to be any other size it would be okay for men too. If a guy is going to outweigh me (I’m 5 foot 6, mid 140s) yet not be fat, he’s probably going to be a few inches taller than I am.
Come to think of it, I know a woman who is 5 foot 9 and has dated men shorter than I am. In that situation, both parties have to have TONS of self confidence and not really give a damn about how other people are perceiving them. Because he kinda looks short and she kinda looks like a giant.
a&v 6
In line with the others, I’d have to say that as a tall woman (I’m 5’11″) I enjoy being shorter (and smaller) than my guy. However, most of my boyfriends have been an inch or two shorter than me. One of the things I look for in a man is confidence, and even if he’s 5’7″ and loves himself as he is (without any cockiness or napolean complexes) sure, I’d go out with him. (Though it would help if he were a stocky fellow, in that case.) Unfortunately for men like Tom, 5’3″ might be too extreme for me (and 5’11″ for him–especially since I love wearing heels). In the dating world I am “discriminated against” plenty for my height but I have no problem with it. Preferences are preferences, fair or not, and if a man can’t get past my statuesque externals, I don’t want him anyway. Here’s to all of us still looking and best of luck to Tom!
Jura 7
I was in a relationship with a shorter (than me) man. It was great! We were both normal weight, probably both with some “baby fat”. The feeling of being a woman next to a man never left me for a second while with him. On the contrary, I think he despised my high heels (although he never commented on that) – and I like high heels, so I never asked if he feels bad about them (well if it was my wedding day I’d probably go on flats and give some heels to him!).
Why? I am European. In Europe. There is something wrong with the U.S. in this regards, don’t know what. Like shame of nudity in changing rooms – that’s quasi impossible to understand on this side of the pool.
LAnie 8
SO, there are a number of reasons that women are not as attracted to shorter men: Since I’m not so sure the other ladies have the guts to say it:
there’s something disturbing about going out with a guy who is eye level with my chest. It’s that whole Oedipus complex issue. We know you guys like breasts, so to have a guy who has even easier access to looking at them ALL the time is creepy. Then there’s the issue of intimacy. I enjoy being face to face with a lover and if he’s that much shorter, it’s a bit of a mood killer having his face buried in the fun bags constantly. And that’s coming from a girl who enjoys a little attention in that area.
Then there’s the issue of fashion: Most of us love the way our Choos or Manolos make out legs look long and toned, even if we can’t walk after going out on a date with them! Incidentally, it also gives us a little more height, thus creating the need for a taller guy if the premise previously mentioned holds true for most of us women.
SO it’s not that dating men who are shorter that is the problem. It’s dating men that are much shorter that is the hurdle. So, to the short guys out there: There are plenty of short girls. Stick within 2 inches of your height and you should be just fine.
As a side note: I’m 5’9. I am currently dating a man who is 5’8. I specifically asked him if he cared about my love for heels and if he did, he’d have to get over it! There are those of us out there who don’t care but we’re a small portion of the population. Oh, and prior to 5’8 guy my last boyfriend was 6’9. So the same difficulty can be said for a guy who is unusually tall. Your dating pool is just going to be smaller.
AS for the other items (fat, bald Asian…) IF you’re fat;start working out. It’s only fair that you are seeking out someone with the same level of fitness as you. If I’m taking care of my body, I would expect the same in a partner.
If you’re bald: shave it all off. Don’t fight it. Embrace the baldness. It’s sexy. And it’s not that big a stigma anymore. and for god sakes, SKIP the hair implants. They look awful.
If you’re Asian: this is NOT a disadvantage. You are the largest population in the world (all nationalities combined!). There are plenty of women for you to date…if you prefer Asian women. If you prefer white women, then you’re dating pool is smaller. Only a certain percentage (I don’t claim to know what it is) of white women will consider dating outside their race so again, the same senitment rings true: your dating pool is just going to be smaller.
Cam 9
I’m 5’9.5″ (though people say I look taller) with an atheletic build. I dated a 6′ guy who looked scared of me when I wore heels, I did try wear flats around him but that felt unfair.
I recently dated a guy who claimed he was 6’6″ but I’m almost certain he was more like 6’9″ and that felt awkward. I’m used to being one of the tallest people in the room and it just felt odd being dwarfed by a guy. Not being able to sneak a kiss without a running jump – not my idea of fun.
The shortest guy I’ve dated was 5’8″. There is something about a guy gazing down at you (in my case, as long as it’s not from too far up!) that would feels great, it would take a lot of getting used to if the guy was significantly shorter and I had to be the one looking down. I don’t know if I could do it…
I’m also an avid ballroom/social dancer so the ability to spin me without smacking my head is a huge plus, that usually requires a guy to be about eye level or taller. Maybe it’s a pipe dream and one of the reasons why I’m alone on a Friday night but I’d like to find a guy with a sense of rhythm who “fits” me on the dance floor. I think the rhythm requirement eliminates more people than the height one
Jaya, I hear you on the petite women that are only after 6′+ men. It has to go both ways though – I have a 5’10″ female friend who had what seemed like an amazing connection with a 6’5″ guy, however he couldn’t get past the fact that she was over 5’6″ (the max height his profile stated). Some (or many?) men enjoy that huge size differential.
Cam 10
Just for the record, I didn’t break up with the 6’9″ guy because of his height (he dumped me for non-size related incompatibility issues).
Sally 11
Count me in with the ladies who don’t want to weigh more than the guy I’m dating. But, that being said, I have dated men shorter than me, and it really doesn’t bother me. What counts in the long run is how they treated me… and that was always wonderful. I am with a guy now who is not much taller than me, and close in height does give a wonderful “fit” during intimate times!
BeenThruTheWars 12
My first husband was 5’6″ and 130 pounds soaking wet (runner with a small frame). I’m 5’5″ and muscular (freakishly strong for a woman when working out regularly) and also overweight; I always felt like a horse next to him, and when I did his laundry, folding his tiny T shirts and underpants… it was like folding a child’s clothing. Just really killed any sexual desire on my part, which was minimal to begin with. He was a great guy in a lot of other ways, which is why I married him, but that piece was always missing for me.
As for the Napoleonic complex thing: he was very even tempered and rational until he got behind the wheel of a car — can you say road rage? Apparently having control of several tons o’ steel with which to be aggressive is the great equalizer. It got to the point where I didn’t want to be in a car when he was driving. So when I divorced him after 10+ years (mainly because of the missing sex/affection/passion piece) I vowed, no more guys who were self-conscious about their stature, whatever it was.
My next relationship was with a guy who was 5’9″ and told people he was 5’10″; so he was a little insecure about it obviously, but he was the perfect height/size for me. My next relationship after that was with a guy who was 6’4″; then with one who was 6’6″ — both way too tall for me. I could only kiss them properly if I was standing on the first step of a staircase. I got a stiff neck from craning my head up all the time to look at them. My new husband is 6’2″ which is still a smidge too tall for my taste, but he’s a keeper in every other way.
He sometimes teases me for being unable to reach something because I’m short and I say, “Listen, buster… the average American woman is 5’4″ tall. I’m 5’5″ tall, which makes me slightly above average in height. The average American man, on the other hand, is 5’10″ tall. You, my friend, are the pituitary freak around here, not me.” We always get a chuckle out of that. It’s a turn on for him when I wear heels, which I dislike, but I occasionally indulge him. We do feel better matched, walking together, when I have 3″ heels on, but it’s a pretty minor note in the grand scheme of things.
I will say this: I once stood in an airport security line in L.A. and a guy struck up a conversation with me… man, was the chemistry UNBELIEVABLE. He was totally hot looking, blond, off to Hawaii on a diving trip. We flirted for the duration then went our separate ways. That was the day I realized, OHH, yeah… I could totally date a guy his height. Which was? Well, he came up to my chin and I’m 5’5″, so… after that, I never put a height restriction on my dating but wound up with 6’2″ anyway. Go figure. I also said I would NEVER marry a smoker… and I did. So for me, it kinda comes down to, is a guy’s height REALLY a deal breaker? Also, if an Asian man had asked me out, or a black or Latino man for that matter, if I liked him and he was cute and I thought there was a chance we might be compatible, I totally would have gone out with him — but none ever did ask me out. I dated an obese guy for a while but there was just no chemistry there for me and I broke it off.
It’s partly “what the universe sends you,” sorry if that sounds too New Agey.
Paul 13
You gals are terrible ! Good night, what does it matter if the guy is a little shorter? Is he a good man? Can he provide? Does he make you feel safe amd protected? Is he romantic and can he make you feel special? Can he make you laugh ? Aren’t these attributes a a little more important than “I want to feel petite next to him” or “I don’t want to feel like someone is starring at my breasts”. I can’t believe how shallow you all are being. Ya, you’ll get tall guys allright, but that may be all. Whatever happened to chemistry and compatibility? My advice would be, if you can, go back and talk to your Mothers, I have a feeling they may be able to shad a little light on your confusion, because you have definatly lost sight of what’s really important. Best of luck…your gonna need it! And I’m 5’9″ by the way.
Erika 14
I’ve dated all kinds: short, bald, and Asian. I’m 5’4 and very petite so I always feel that the men are bigger than me. Personally, I don’t like to date men taller than 5’10, otherwise I have to stand on my toes to kiss them and my neck gets sore.
That being said, the shortest man I dated was 5’6. Right now I’m in love with a bald man who hovers around 5’10.
Zann 15
I’d like to weigh in on this. I am barely 5’0″, 108 lbs, so every man I’ve ever been with has been taller than me…usually a lot taller. Personally, I LIKE short men, so send them my way. I find them usually to be friskier, more sensual, and generally less arrogant than the tall, head-in-the-clouds dude. Maybe because they’ve had their share of being diss’d, I find short men to be more humble, appreciative & giving. Many women were schooled in the “tall, dark & handsome” times, but the reality is, it’s foolish to limit your pool to a certain height in a man, mainly because you’re shooting yourself in the foot — why restrict yourself to something that’s got absolutely nuthin’ to do with what kind of man he is, his integrity, his level of passion or complexity, his sexual prowess. But overall, I think it’s still all really about attitude. And based on the statitics proven here, is it really any big surprise that men develop a Napoleanic attitude? Since I’ve always been short, I’m used to having most people taller than me. But when I’m engaging with a person who is about my height — whether male or female — where we’re at an even eye-level, the power dynamic changes dramatically. I feel more secure, confident, and relaxed. I do understand what taller women are talking about, not wanting to feel like they are dwarfing their man, but I also know what the flip side of that is. I don’t like the fact that I am always “looking up” at the guy, like he’s some godly father figure and I’m the helpless, submissive, dependent lil’ woman. And I’d be the first to admit that I carry around a bit of the short-woman attitude, which projects: don’t make presumptions about me — I am no pushover, no petite flower. I do wonder why a taller man would be attracted to me, and truthfully, it makes me suspicious when there’s a huge height difference. (You know, “Why don’t you pick on someone your own size?”) When my friends ask about some tall guy who has asked me out, I always ask, “What am I supposed to do with all of that?” I mean, I’m an energetic gal, but that’s a lot of ground to cover…so much scrambling around! If there’s a shorter man in the room and he’s single, you can bet his making his way over to me, and I don’t think it’s got much to do with my looks, body, or anything other than that it’s just such a relief to look a female adult in the eye. So, I say, Short People of the World — Unite! Lift yourself up to your full height proudly. And just send all those spry, fun-loving short guys my way, (including Tony) and I’ll gladly leave the Big Boys for women who want someone more their eye level. But for those women who “need” to feel smaller, daintier, less powerful than their men, I say leave that to the fantasy of the bedroom and use your imagination. And at the risk of waving my feminist flag too vigorously and obnoxiously, remember that a lot of us fought long & hard to NOT be powerless and to not let men dominate us, and to make sure we get our fair share. That applies to our intimate lives, as well, and with whom we romance. (And please don’t say, “Sure, easy for you to say, you’re a small woman,” because it’s not easy for any woman, period.) Yes, humans are visual creatures, and yes, we like what we like, but usually that’s because it’s what we’re familiar with, & sometimes we need to challenge what we think are “natural attractions.” I’m with the European woman — branch out and try something different and you may be surprised. I know several couples where the woman is taller than her man & is likely of equal weight or maybe even heavier. They seem unbothered by this, displaying affection openly and publicly, whether she’s reaching down a little bit to squeeze his butt or he’s reaching up a little to squeeze hers. If you care about each other, you make it work. Thanks for your insights & may you all find your mate, big or small, short or tall.
Shari 16
The only reason not to date him for me? He lives in PA and I’m not close to that state so it might be hard to see each other. Aside from that, it doesn’t matter to me if the guy is shorter. I’m 5’7″ and height has never been, nor will it be, a dealbreaker.
The dating world, but most especially the online dating world, has a lot of shallow people who look to what the outside has to offer way before they’re concerned if the inside is as beautiful. Give me a man beautiful on the inside and he could be Quasi Modo, wouldn’t affect me in the least. I’ve dated enough great looking, hard bodied, duds to know what’s important.
tom pandolfo 17
Well, I’m Tom Pandolfo and it’s hard for me not to read this and remain silent (understanding full well that silence cannot be misquoted). In any event, while we all have our own preferences, I was especially impressed by what “Zann” had to comment upon, first because it is consistent with my own beliefs (who can argue with someone whose disposition and atttitude is commensurate with their own? LOL) and secondly due to her maturity about the whole thing, particularly as regards her comment concerning the fight women have had to not be “dominated” by men, which is both laudable and refreshing because it is obvious her own identity is measured not by her own (petite) “stature,” but by the content of her soul and her appreciation for freedom from what I may call the conventional mind set. I find that VERY SEXY. Okay, so I am biased, too, but I have found amongst my other shorter male friends and myself, too, that we may better appreciate the strides women have made towards greater freedom and respect because we have had to confront similar demons in terms of gaining respect that is based on the content and character of one’s soul as opposed to some external attribute that has no relationship to what one brings to any human transaction, be it a professional or emotionally intimate relationship.
Like most of my shorter male friends, we have hordes of female friends, I suggest because we treat them as equals as opposed to submissive or dainty subjects in need of dominance. Dominance is fun in the bedroom, for sure, but quite honestly, while I like being dominant in bed, I also like a woman strong and aggressive enough to take control, too, for it expands, say, the repertriore, and decreases sexual boredom. I’ve always preferred partners that like to share in bed, it lends itself to better (and mind blowing) sex. It’s tough to have stature outside the bedroom (or in relationships) when one willingly chooses to be the submissive party in any relationship. That’s weakness, not strength, and who wants a weak partner?
Doing things society (or peers) may not deem normal requires a lot of self confidence (extremely appealing in a woman!) and I believe also increases the amount of respect a man has for her, since, ultimately, her own inner beauty (as opposed to the external) places her on a level equal to her partner. When mates are equal there is greater opportunity for connection, I posit, and lessens the power conflict sometimes inherent in male-female relationships. A woman who suggests her feminimity is measured by being “dainty” sells herself, well, short (pun intended
and may never realize the esteem that comes from being truly free. For reasons unbeknownst to me, having spent some recent time in Europe, and as alluded to by “Jura,” European women seem to “get it” more (generally) than American women do. They seem INTO MEN while their American counterparts place such substantial restrictions on what a man is, some, not all, of which is based on self imposed height stereotypes. European women, accordingly, seem to have more male options. The more options one has (the real issue for short guys like myself given the way we seem to be limited by a reasonable portion of women), the greater the pool of connections, and the less needy and more desirable one becomes. I suggest American men do the same as their female countertops, implying there are strong cultural, as opposed to biological, elements at work. The biological argument, moreover, seems to suggest that it cannot be controlled, but the ability to overcome what may be deemed innate biological dispositions is what separates us from the animals, is it not?
I have had female friends state it was refreshing to get outside of the box and try something different (dating a short guy) because it made them more free (and, accordingly, more powerful), and understand feminimity is not a concept based on weakness or daintiness, but ultimately, on a form of strength that may not be physical, but is at the very minimum emotional and intellectual. Women with this type of strength are VERY SEXY. And if some of the men can’t handle this, then why date such a Neanterthal? The posture that feminimity is based on “weakness” is a concept that sells women short and limits not only their possibility for greater emotional connection, but professional progress as well. Women that figure that out, I suggest, lead much happier and fuller lives because they are able to increase the number of human connections they have (and that includes taller people as well). And to be self serving, for a moment, they have also found that it all lines up the same horizontally and they may end up with a real giant if they spend a few hours with a shorter guy (let your minds wander). As someone who coaches athletics, I usually find the shorter guys better athletes in terms of balance and rythm and those attributes can lend themselves to sexual prowess. I very rarely see good tall male dancers.
The real question, ultimately, is not how hard short guys have it in the dating (particularly online) world, but the power and control women can have over their own lives (and men) by being free from culturally imposed dating standards that limit, not the short guys’ dating prospects, but the ladies true strength. This is not a plea to have women date short guys, but a statement that it doesn’t make a difference unless you place your own limitation on your life. People whose outlooks are so limited (be they tall or short) are not as sexy and appealing as those who have freed themselves from conventional boundaries. My grandmother always admonishes us that you limit yourself most when you limit others. It’s that type of strong character that makes her such a strong, special and respected lady. She gets it.
And by the way, I like ladies in high heels, be they 4’11 or 5’11, they are all sexy to me, because I like women, not just a small portion of them. But I have to say I was shocked by how significant a difference it was being “5’10″ for 3 days. It was a sad commentary on the state of what is important for a portion of the female dating population out there, and no surprise, accordingly, women are still sold short by many men in many aspects of life.
Interesting article, Evan, and some cool and honest replies.
Tom
By the way, I am a strong, confident and successful guy, but for anyone to suggest because of such strength I am (or any short guy) “Napoleanic” is in need of some therapy. That’s a stereotype that doesn’t sell the short person short, but sells the believer in that concept short. A woman who is successful is not some power hungry b…ch, but should be lauded for overcoming what are still strong (albeit thankfully decreasing) cultural biases.
Jessica 18
In response to Paul, this is commenter’s opinion. It is no more descriminating then the men who prefer shorter thinner women, because they feel big and strong!! They also generally want someone that they can show off.
When it comes to dating, in the US, there are a lot of hang ups. Men and Women are gulity of stereotypes and submitting to cultural norms.
I’m tall and not thin. I like wearing heels, and can be an easy 6 foot tall when I have a pair on. I also like to walk aroung barefoot and consider myself a normal 5’9″. I’m not sayin’ I need a Paul Bunyan (sp??) but, I want someone that I don’t dwarf. Mainly because I feel just as awkward about my height.
Yes, I would put the security and safety above looks, but you have to get to the point where you can have that. A lot of shorter men lack self confidence, or have an over abundance. But the same goes for women. If we can’t get over those hang ups, then it can be hard to even get to where you can start to feel safe, secure, and protected.
I hope Tom finds a great relationship. He sounds like a great guy, but even if you read his profile, he has similar hang ups. As someone who isn’t overly active, I read his profile and thought, he seems like a really great guy. But, then, he has a section on being physically fit, and well I would think, he won’t even look at me, so why bother. If we are asking everyone to be open minded to shorter men, who have a few extra pounds, and come from Korea, then we ourselves should be open to a potential match that is maybe not exactly what we are looking for.
Evan you are doing great things here, keep up the good work. These are just thoughts from someone who has had it rough in the dating world.
Jared Meyer 19
“Perceptions, Preferences, and Priorities”
For the record, I’m 29 years of age, caucasian, and 6’0 (without shoes), and have a very athletic build. Positive physical features aside, I have been single most of my life. Why? I value being creative and working 7 days each week though conceptually I am sincerely interested in meeting someone with whom to spend the rest of my life.
I’m sensing that many Americans live in fear with regard to their romantic lives. I’ve learned recently that many times, two people decide to commit to each other due to two fundamental reasons: the timing was great, the opportunity stellar, and hopefully because of authentic, powerful feelings.
Personally, for years, I have felt that I won’t stop searching until I meet someone who fits my very specific requirements. I have not lived in fear while thinking, “What if I don’t meet her? What if I’m too picky?” It’s an abundant world. She is out there. Despite my specific preferences, I know that no matter what she looks like, what she does with her time and heart, and what she doesn’t do that if I know we’re truly right for each other long-term, I will make an effort to spend my life with her.
Cognitive distortions and irrational beliefs make us angry, anxious, or depressed. Please consider understanding, accepting, and forgiving others for having very specific preferences. We are always changing. He who seeks a women with X, Y, and Z today may desire one with A, B, and C tomorrow. Relax and ride the wave. Think good thoughts and think big. Well, you know what I mean.
Sam 20
Is it so superficial to want someone who is in shape? Let’s say you’re really active with things like tennis, skiing, biking, whatever — you have the right to want someone who can enjoy those activities with you.
Some girls I’ve gone out with have seen a five mile, no elevation hike as a major physical challenge.
Miss Julie 21
My only complaint with short men is when they lie about it. I’m 5’7″ and, like some of the other posters, love high heels. So I like to know, for real, whether you are my height, taller, shorter, whatever. I’ve dated guys that were significantly taller (6’4″) and significantly shorter (5’3″), but when your profile says that you are 5’7″, then I expect you to actually BE 5’7″.
I suppose this goes for everything in online dating – I don’t appreciate it when guys lie about their single status or their age, either.
iBecca 22
Personally, I think you can rationalize it all you want by analyzing why it amounts wo social weakness for a woman to prefer taller, broader men. I even understand the arguments. But the fact remains that I automatically respond to a taller man. I’m just physically more attracted to that. You like what you like.
To suggest that women who prefer shorter men are somehow more enlightened or that those who prefer taller men are somehow deficient in one way or another is ludicrous. There’s very little thinking going on at all where attraction is concerned.
Marc 23
I think this sort of thing hearkens back to the days of the cavemen where the cavewomen needed the big, tall man to hunt, gather and provide. It’s been encoded into their DNA ever since. While guys like a pretty face and a nice body, women feel the need to be protected and assured that everything’s gonna be okay. Shortness is seen as weak and perhaps childlike, as one of the commenters above noted….and a short, weak guy won’t be able to make a woman feel safe and secure.
I would be curious to see what would happen if you changed his profession to a doctor, mentioned how successful his practice was, and left his height at 5’3. You might find similar results. Nothing says “I’m a great hunter and gatherer” than a successful medical practice.
Adrienne 24
Truthfully, I’ve always felt like shorter men have a raw deal. I am only 5’2″, but I refuse to date any man shorter than 5’9″. It doesn’t have anything to do with feeling protected or wanting to be on my tiptoes to kiss him, but simply the fact that I don’t want my children, especially my sons, to be short and have to suffer the same stigma. Very sad for me to say as I am a short woman, but I have it a lot easier than short men when it comes to finding a date; and since you can’t control who you fall in love with, I figure it’s better for me to not even date a short man.
Ken 25
I’m not sure why you felt it necessary to lump an entire race of men into the same qualitative categories as “Fat”, “Older”, or “Short”? Please explain?
Evan Marc Katz 26
Great comments, everybody. But to answer Ken here… I’M not lumping an entire race of men into those who are discriminated against. Women are. If you clicked on the link, you’d see that according to a Columbia University study, Asian men have a 65% lower response rate from white women.
And to address Marc, NOTHING would change if Tom were a 5’3″ doctor. Click on the link to read about the ABC “20/20″ story where the short guys were millionaire concert pianist cancer researchers and the tall guys were felons…and the women still preferred tall guys…
Zann 27
Okay, in response to the DNA/caveman/hunter-gatherer rationality — Lordy, can we just put that one to rest. Sure, I’m certain that there is truth to our DNA legacy, but so what? It’s similar to the theory that we are, by nature, a “warring” species. Look! It’s right there is our DNA. So, let’s all just throw up our hands and refuse to evolve beyond the warring, caveman-cavewoman mentality. Centuries of war, sexism, racism, ethnic cleansing, poverty, soil erosion & famine — who’d want to give that up? And I’m sure I’ll be sorry I asked…but women, when was the last time you felt safe, protected, and provided for on any continual basis by a man? And I mean “continual” as in an on-going basis….meaning more than, say, 3 months. Sure, I’ve had men promise me all kinds of things: care, affection, even masculine protection — whether I asked for it or not…but in the long run (or not so long), they were WAY more concerned with looking after their own asses and asking what I could do for them than they were about whether or not they were meeting my needs for security, comfort and compassion. And I’m not even talking about financial security, I’m just talking about reciprocal empathy, concern, and maybe even a little self-sacrifice now & then, heaven forbid. Now, it could be I’ve simply got real, real bad luck — or maybe I’m just a Big-Fat-Loser-&-someone-please-just-put-me-outta-my-misery. But I just don’t see a lot of this protective He-mann stuff everyone’s writing about. Where are these guys, anyway? Must be out on a mammoth-hunt I guess. Meanwhile, I think I’ll go back to digging my tubers out of the ground and gathering my twigs and berries, but I also think I’ll hold onto my day job, thanks very much.
James 28
I don’t understand why white women doesn’t date Asian man? what about African, and Hispanic men?
sheseizereason 29
I have a great deal of respect for Evan’s mind, and Tom Pandolfo seems like a truly stand-up citizen.
However, I’m a little confused.
Wasn’t the 9/5 blog post immediately preceding this one all about how life is unfair? I’m not clear on why the dissection of women’s statistically-backed preference for taller men would follow so quickly on the heels of a post that essentially addresses issues such as these.
The best explanation I could come up with is that: 1) Evan’s 9/5 post bore a difficult, hard-to-swallow message, 2) Evan’s readers nevertheless continued to reject the categorical fact that life is unfair and so’ 3) Evan challenged his naysayers in this post by putting them in the position to invoke his own arguments to defend their preference for taller men.
Evan is no dummy.
That aside, I have a few comments about this specific post independent of the previous one. Namely, that Evan asked his readers for their “honest” feedback to the topic. So I’m pretty certain that the commenters who admitted their desires to feel dainty, hug a larger body, meet their partners’ gaze at eye level and avoid dealings with a Napoleonic man are fully aware of the irrationality behind that view. And yet they admitted their feelings because Evan asked and, well, we all know life is unjust. These are HONEST women, not ones in need of therapy, as suggested.
Furthermore, I noticed in his profile that Tom refuses to go out with a heavier woman. And I couldn’t resist the temptation to picture if this post were about a big-hearted fat woman instead of a short man. In my imaginings, the large woman submits a lengthy response to reader comments containing an exhaustive academic breakdown justifying why men shouldn’t remove fat ladies from their dating options. She appeals to their vanity by extolling the ‘sexiness’ of the enlightened attitudes of men who like their women big and beautiful. She asks ‘Why would anyone want to date a woman who merely conforms to media-hyped/society-enforced notions of what is attractive?’
Do you think Tom himself would be convinced by this woman’s arguments? Enough to actually open up his dating criteria to include fat women? And how different is Tom’s response from the fictional one I described?
At the end of the day, I believe Tom makes compelling arguments that nonetheless sadly fail to persuade the majority of women in online dating land. Why? Because this is attraction we’re talking about here. We’re talking about monkeying with human involuntary responses to other human beings. And if given the choice between a) pursuing what one gravitates towards without thinking about it or b) re-wiring one’s responses to be aligned with the ‘well-reasoned’ position, we are always going to choose Option A. I say so because it’s infinitely easier to do what’s natural, especially if what’s natural doesn’t actively do harm to anyone else and it’s been working fine for them anyway. (Try using logic to convince a man to stop reading Maxim, FHM or Stuff if you don’t believe me.)
As a side note: maybe Tom’s arguments are useful if you’re a woman who’s been limiting herself to taller men and you just can’t seem to find ‘Mr. Right’ among your list of choices. Maybe she should then be persuaded to loosen her criteria. But then again, the converse argument applies to Tom, where perhaps he should consider permitting heavier women who have no issue with shorter men into his dating pool, rather than spend the energy trying to fight an uphill battle against womens prevailing attitudes.
Tom, I think you’re really brave to put yourself out there and to let Evan put your misfortunes on full display in his blog. I wish you the best of luck, and sincerely believe the right woman’s out there for you. From my perspective, you just happened to have found out the ‘Match’ system of searchable criteria and high-volume dating tends to work against men of your stature. Don’t let your experiences say too much to you about women or your actual prospects.
Cam 30
sheseizereason, I was thinking the exact same thing – this doesn’t jive with previous personal accountability posts. Hopefully someone who has no problem dating short men contacts Tom (maybe that was the aim of the whole thing – to get Tom a lot of exposure) but I doubt any rewiring of what people find attractive is going to happen by being berated for being honest. We can’t be attracted to everyone, life is unfair, right? Change your expectations and behavior, right?
I can see how this would be a hard thread to read if you are short, I definitely don’t want a thread where people state why they wouldn’t be attracted to me. It wouldn’t matter if I called them (in the nicest way possible) unevolved, shallow or rude, it wouldn’t make me any more attractive to them.
lulu 31
I’m 5’5″, on Match and I’m willing to go out with men whose height start at 5’6″. In reality I’m willing to go out with men who are exactly my height but I’ve found that men who say they are 5’5″ are always 5’4″ or shorter.
I don’t mind standing taller than a guy with my shoes on, as long as I’m not obviously taller than him with my shoes off. I’m personally attracted to men around my height (regardless of race), because I like to look into a man’s eyes easily. I guess I’m the exception to the rule because I’ve always preferred shorter men.
Strangely enough, while I’m relatively popular in the sense that I get plenty of dates (with shorter men), I don’t have easier or longer-term relationships compared to my girlfriends who are only attracted to men that are at least 5’10″. I think once you move beyond the initial attraction, shorter men are not “easier” than taller men, especially if they are successful and smart and have other things going for them. Just like overweight women are not “easier” either. In my opinion, this is a good thing
joanie 32
Yeah, sheseizereason, I found myself nodding as I read your comments, and scratching my head as I read Evan’s initial post and Tom’s followup.
It doesn’t mesh to on the one hand be so dismissive about the way men can view/use women so superficially and yet be incredulous that women would prefer taller men.
And the numerous references to what Tom finds “sexy” seemed gratuitous, did nothing to advance his positionn and seemed perhaps his way of taking a stab at women who don’t share his views. Almost to say, “if you don’t share this outlook, you’re not sexy.”
Well I guess I’m not sexy because I prefer taller men, despite the fact I’m a triathlete and not in the least bit dainty. Guess I should feel sad or demoralized that someone like Tom doesn’t think I’m VERY SEXY. Life is so unfair.
tom pandolfo 33
I cioncur with you, shesheizereason. My own hyprocritical “preference” (not absolute) was devoid of women who are not, say, slim and athletic.
And in God’s myterious way of rendering justice, I am going out Friday night with a lady who may be deemed “curvy.” Life is an ongoing learning curve and your insight is respected. One should practice what they preach.
justme.jen 34
I’m with Paul on this one. This all seems awfully shallow to me. It should be about how you treat each other & how you feel when you’re together. (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue). I realize initial attraction is mostly physical, which may be a little harder on the shorter guy, or the overweight woman, or whatever trait may make a difference to some. However, if you’re not going to get past that to find out what a great person you may be dealing with, you’re losing out in the end.
Camilla 35
Justme.jen wrote: (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue)
It’s been a bigger self-esteem issue for me to be able to admit what I like, without feeling guilty about it! There’s so much societal programming that says women are supposed to overlook the physical part. Otherwise, we get accused of being “shallow,” by other women. You made my point for me.
Sam 36
Maybe having a height minimum isn’t so exceptional. Perhaps height is just the most important physical attribute for a man to have. For those women who categorically refuse to date someone below a particular height, do you have other physical must haves/can’t haves?
For instance, would you go out with someone if he had a really large nose? Lots of body hair? Small hands? A triple chin? Bad skin?
Is height just the first among equals of physical attributes, or is it something that, unlike a big nose, you can’t see past?
jamie 37
Gosh, why does this topic generate so much? Maybe because it cuts to the core of attraction, culture, etc etc?
I’m going to state upfront I am 5’4″, 110 lbs, 39, blond and blue eyes, so I have a lot of options both on and off online dating sites. Yes, the sites can be shallow, but you have to deal with it and keep searching, sooner or later there has to be some good ones out there, tall, short, heavy, thin, male or female. I get hundreds of emails at a time and can tell you, what, maybe 2% are worthy?
Count me in the minority of women who like short guys. To begin with, I checked Tom’s profile and the guy is just gorgeous. If he was in my area I would jump on that in a heartbeat. Evan and him did a great job on the profile, it’s positive, upbeat, confident, funny and intelligent. Far from what paases for the normal blah, blah, blah and its obvious he likes women – although I do note he seems to have a preference for thin (probably due to activity level?) and to be fair, he should expand his own horizons. He’s brave, too, having bared his soul in a public forum (I note everyone except him hides behind our anonymity – nice and safe) and a guy (tall or short) with that much confidence is a man who is in touch with his own feelings and likely to invest in ours. That is very rare girls. It doesn’t surprise me if he were tall, he would be really popular on the dating sites, but why should one small thing take away from that? Most of you gals just don’t get it with men, do you?
I know most of us given the choice between a tall dud and a short stud (Tom is studly in my opinion) take the tall dud and then complain about men? LOL
I think a few of you are misunderstanding his comments. He says he finds strong women sexy and to him a lady who looks beyond height is strong. Just as most of you find tall guys sexy, he finds what a strong lady is in his mind sexy. I don’t see him complaining about being short or saying it’s unfair. I don’t agree with all he says, but it’s an interesting take. But he’s stating this is what reality is to a short man, probably the same thing tall women have to deal with as well. Yes, it’s unfair, but he’s not complaining about it in my view.
Short guys? For me, I had always dated taller guys and then once met a guy a few inches shorter than I who oozed charisma and confidence. He was good looking and that always helps (count me as a hypocrite). We went to bed and I had the best sex of my life.
For the woman having a tough time meeting quality guys, it’s because you all are so narrow and put all of your eggs in a very shallow basket (tall guys). I check the shorter guys all the time because there are tons, tons, of great guys who just happen to be short. I dated other short guys and the same thing always happened in bed….they were tigers and could do things with their hips most taller guys had difficulty doing. They were better in bed. It seems they are always built better and most of them are good dancers and will dance with you instead of what most tall guys do….stand their without doing anything. So for me it is sexual. And it’s also because it increases the number of quality guys. I like tall guys as well. I like men, but give a small edge to the shorter ones because of their superior sexual prowess.
I have to say as well many of my lady friends often ask what I see in the shorter men because most of them can’t, just can’t, go that route. They aren’t axe murderers, they are men, but most of my friends end up going out with some boring guys because they limit their pool to such a small group of guys. Thankfully, I have overcome what is, yes, shallow girls (and I’m vain…..LOL) and now I meet a better quality of men because height is not an issue to me. We’ve spent all this time overcoming the stigma of being female in the world and treated as a second class citizen and now that we have more freedom…..we end making choices about others based on something like gender they can’t change. If we keep to some old standard based on external things, then we are not as free or strong as we can be. Next time a man in power doesn’t promote you or respect you just because you are a female, don’t complain about it, he’s being every bit as judgmental as you are. Neanderthal men (short or tall) do nothing for me and we all know there are still lots of those guys out there.
The bottom line is this: We know it’s shallow, so just admit it. But while I’m out having fun and great sex with cool, interesting, successful and good looking men, and you are complaining (we complain all the time about men, ladies, admit it), maybe you in the final analysis are really the short one. Short guys are no better or worse (well, maybe except for the better sexual aspect of it) than tall men. But from personal experience I can say once I got out of my own safety zone, learned a different world exists out there for women who don’t put their eggs in such limited baskets.
Really cool comments by everybody and those are mine.
Jaclyn 38
I am 5’6, and have often dated men who are my height or shorter. My problem with dating shorter men is that some shorter men get anxious when I wear heels. I had one guy snap at me when we walked across the street and I stood up on a curb before he did. Apparently, it really upset him that I was very tall when I was standing on the curb before him. So I try not to date shorter men anymore, but I would be happy to date one who was completely comfortable with his (and my) height.
Camilla 39
Sam: I for one, like a guy with an imperfect nose. It adds character. In fact, I recently had a date with a guy who looked like a Ken doll, thinking, “that guy would be so much more attractive if he didn’t have such a plain nose.”
Body hair doesn’t matter to me either. All the waxing guys are doing now is kind of off-putting to me. (Blame the porn industry here.)
I suppose really obese is a no, for me. But I don’t mind an extra 20-40 lbs. Maybe even more if the guy’s tall. ; )
Amanda 40
I personally LOVE short men! Seriously. I’m 5’4. Not super short. I used to go for tall guys. The men I dated were always over 6′. Then, I dated a short guy. As I said, I LOVE it!!! Not having to look up all the time. No time spent on my tip toes. Being able to look someone straight in the eyes. I love the build. They are less awkward. I could go on but bottom line, I’m addicted. I’ve actually had a really hard time trying not to disregard tall men. My friends all laugh at me. They can always spot the men I’m into. Add curly dark hair and I’m hooked!
Miss J 41
I am 5′ and I love tall guys. I am dating a guy 6’4″. I love guys 6′ plus. I won’t even consider a guy under 5’10. Just my preference. The guys I date are attracted to me as well just as there are men who prefer BBW and women who are ‘very chubby’. I was once dumped by a guy because his type is women with ‘fat rear ends’. There is no rule. Don’t blame us shorter women for dating tall men “leave some for us”. It could be red hair or big xxx that attract men. It is always something.
Scot McKay 42
I found this blog while searching for online dating experts for a project I’m doing.
Unfortunately I’m in a bit of a rush at the moment lest I comment further, but I will leave these comments:
1) Regarding the TV study, attempting to apply metrics of real-world human attraction based on an objective list of traits is an untenable concept. In real life each individual’s attractiveness can very easily defy any “standard”.
2) At 5’6″ I eventually was able to achieve a 60-80% response rate on Match.com. Notably I was specifically targeting the very sharpest women in my own estimation. I met my new wife there, who was receiving 200+ emails per day when I met her.
3) The Pittsburgh MSA does not compare to Philly MSA in population size. As such, that experiment is flawed.
4) I personally am convinced that any shorter man can actually be MORE successful than a taller man with women. I have produced an audio program on it with a
Michelle 43
Is anyone going to state the obvious? Men can tell age, weight, breast size within seconds of meeting us yet we women can’t really tell a critical factor of physical endowment until we get a man undressed. Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.
Yael 44
Tom,
I think the reaon you’re not getting dates is because:
1. You mis-spell words
2. You’re response is toooo long
3. You bring up your sexual habits
4. You don’t seem fun and self-aware
Scot McKay 45
Michelle, that is one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever seen anyone make publicly.
I fully get that “size matters” sexually to women. But the size of a man’s unit is absolutely not necessarily proportional to his height. That’s like supposing that “taller women have larger breasts” or that “shorter people have smaller noses”.
Seriously.
Melissa 46
In response to Michelle’s comment above:
“Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.”
Michelle (and anyone else who shares this belief in all things proportional), two of the tallest guys I’ve dated (6’2″ and 6’4″) also had the smallest penises. Enough said.
Mara 47
Let’s face it – the answer is evolution. Why do tiny, short women love taller men just like the average or tall women among us? Evolution. I think, as someone down here said, that since Asians make up the majority of the world’s population, that is the reason why there are still short men in the gene pool. The short men that are around must be evolving to be extra strong or good at other things, since they don’t have the height advantage. Height surely would have been an advantage in the hunter-gatherer times, in the farming times, and the trait continues.
Has anyone else noticed that we have never ever had a short president? Forget not short, we’ve never had many (or any) presidents that were not taller than average. Hopefully that will change if we finally get a female president. Then again, Hillary is not on the short side of women even. Next to Bill, who is really tall, she can hold her own in the height department.
I am 5’7 and have tried dating one or two short men in my dating life (one recently), but there was definitely a lack of sexual attraction in those cases. A similar trend holds for very skinny or weak men (just ended with one of those, average height, 5’10 but super skinny and weak, not attractive when it came down to it).
Any bias on my part could also be chalked up to my own complex, as my mother is 5’10 and my father is 6’3 and me and my little sister are only both 5’7, we feel a bit gipped. Then again, for a woman it seems that this is a great height, a little tall but can still wear heels and be under 6′. Then again, I wouldn’t mind so much being 6′, maybe I could’ve been a professional tennis player.
JimmyE 48
Yael, before you get judgemental about Tom’s spelling, you migh want to consider YOUR response (not YOU’RE response)
realityis 49
1- i prefer shorter guys myself, i like to feel equal. but i’m 5’2. (although i must admit if he’s thin then i find it tough)
2- tom, you sound great. try italy for about 2 weeks and you’ll be clobbered with women. this height issue is very much a north american bias.
3- Evan- i’m new to your stuff. please tell me you have some articles that aren’t saying its women’s fault. between this one and the article “Why Men arent Attracted to SMart, Strong Successful Women” you’d think that the failures in the dating world are largely due to women not ‘getting’ it. Guys too, have their biases- about weight, age, appearances, race… etc. i just hope you guve equal opportunity to pointing these things out on both sides.
Vickie 50
I love short men! I’m only 5’5″ and don’t like compressing disks in my neck to look up at a guy.
But the reason women go for tall guys is a part of nature. Watch the Discovery channel sometime. The biggest, strongest, most beautiful beasts always win the ladies.
Pat 51
I have to admit that I prefer men that are taller and larger than me to smaller men. It is nothing against the smaller man, he could be a really great guy. It is my own insecurity about my own size. I am hardly petite, I am 5 ft 6 and weigh…well let’s just say I am a larger woman. I think that couples who do not look somewhat proportionate look rather silly together. Plus when I am out with a guy I want to feel like he could protect me. If it looks like I am more likely to kick someone’s butt than my date is, that is not cool!
And on the other side of the coin I am the “older woman” and “heavier woman” that no one wants either so I am not getting any dates as well. It works both ways.
tom 52
Love the articles. In response to Yael, though:
1. I’ve dated at least 60 women in the last 3 years because
I am fun, incredibly sexy and handsome to boot, not to mention
very successful.
2. I am involved in a relationship with a gal from Match who
was one of the more popular ladies on the site in terms
of views (5,000 monthly) and emails (over 200 week).
Most men would kill to go out with her and she chose me
(mostly because I am funny and nonjudgmental with my dates.
Most of the ladies I have dated are still friends, in fact.
The main point of the article was that there is a relative, but not absolute bias and I found out what the difference was. But I do fine, I assure you.
Good luck to you.
JuJu 53
Tom, you’ve got some opinion of yourself! This is the point where immodesty is a turn-off.
Hold on a second, is this the same Tom Pandolfo? The one who couldn’t get any women on account of his height?
Anyway, Michelle, the most consistently decently endowed men (of the ones I had) were 5’8″. The problem is, I am not attracted to that height (I am 5’6″, like men at least 5’10″, which coming from me I would think sounds a lot more reasonable than MissJ). I don’t like being taller than my partner on heels and feeling like we are the same size when we are walking (and I am wearing flats), but most importantly, I just do not feel that I am with a MAN. With a man of that stature I feel like I am with a boy. My ex-husband was that height (I was very young and inexperienced when I met him), and I am certain that was one of the main reasons I eventually stopped having sex with him.
The most insignificant penises I’ve had belonged to men around 5’11″-6′ (thankfully, there were only two).
But then, I can’t imagine a man packing anything substantial down there if he is smaller than, say, 5’6″.
tom 54
This is last time I will entertain this subject for I am in a great relationship with a wonderful and beautiful woman right now. The “study” was just an unscientific exercise in seeing what the diffference was, online, in terms of dating “potential,” that’s all, not “the ability to get a date,” where I don’t have any problems. If that’s immodest and turns you off, I could care. I am sorry, though, JuJu, that although you are “tall” by female standards as far as physcial stature is concerned, you are rather narrow in terms of what makes up a man, which indicates the possibility you may be a little short in various other areas of greater importance than ones vertical stature. And by the way, if you spent two hours with some men shorter than 5’6″, you may find you would be sleeping with a giant, but I’ll leave it at that so we don’t become too “immodest.”
JuJu 55
Again, substitute “overweight women” in any argument you make about the worthiness of short men and you will see how preposterous it all sounds.
Indeed, size says nothing about a person’s intelligence, integrity, kindness, and the overall beauty of their soul. Only this realization on the intellectual level does not help one bit on the physical or emotional.
I am also now convinced that Evan spoke a bit too soon in promoting you. All that anger and lack of class speak for themselves.
Sam 56
“Again, substitute ‘overweight women’ in any argument you make about the worthiness of short men and you will see how preposterous it all sounds.”
This may not endear me to everyone here, but I think that many men have good reasons for not wanting to date an overweight man or woman. If someone is really active, he or she is has the right to want someone who can keep up.
I also feel that height preferences are worse than weight preferences because a person has zero control over his or her height. A person does have some control over his or her weight. In my dating, I make a distinction between an overweight woman (with a naturally slow metabolism)who eats right and exercises and an overweight person who also has ice cream for dessert and who sits on the couch all day. I dated an overweight exerciser/eat righter for six weeks once and NEVER THOUGHT of saying anything critical about her body.
JuJu 57
It doesn’t have to be weight (it’s just the first one that comes to mind), just substitute any which feature you might find unattractive. Somebody already mentioned huge noses. (Please don’t tell me that, unlike short men, they can have a nose job.
).
By the way, BeenThruTheWars, the average height for women in the US (for all races) is 5’3″, and for men – 5’9″ (courtesy of Wikipedia and things I heard/read previously). I WISH it was 5’10″
, but it isn’t.
Now, I finally mustered up the patience yesterday to read Tom Pandolfo’s looooong essay. In all honesty, if he was 6’1″ (my preferred ideal height in a man) and in my age group, I wouldn’t date a man who manages to write so much about so little, operates on faulty premises (cultural conditioning? puhleeze. I never did find poster boys attractive), and, not least of it, spells “femininity” – “feminimity” (and that’s at the age of 48).
Sorry, I had to let that off my chest.
shellacked 58
Tom. You said…”The ‘study’ was just an unscientific exercise in seeing what the diffference was, online, in terms of dating potential, that’s all, not the ability to get a date, where I don’t have any problems.”
Come on now. It’s ok to admit you needed some help in the getting dates department. That’s why you did the smart thing and enlisted Evan’s services, right?
This defensive denial – btw – is the type of self-deception that, when seen in a short man, we women tend to view as “Napoleonic”.
You know the sure sign of confidence? Just being able to let something go. Think you’re a few thousand words beyond that at this point.
Jabe 59
I don’t see how this has failed to come up so far but what about the discrimination against tall women?
I’m 5’10″. I hate wearing heels because they make me feel worse about my stature. I’ve always lacked confidence with guys; partly because I have been told for as long as I can remember that I “can’t” date anyone less than 2 inches taller than me. My friends, my own grandmother even, have made me feel I am unattractive to the majority of men.
So what am I doing now? I’m with a 5’3″ guy. I’ve never felt so confident about my looks.
Chris 60
“Fair or not, most people believe that all things are proportional hence a woman who actually enjoys the physical aspect of a relationship may not be inclined to invest in a short man. Sorry boys, size does matter to an awful lot of us.”
Even if things were strictly proportional, the length difference on a man who is 5’9” and a man who is 5’4” may not be that much in absolute terms.
A 5’9”er might seem a lot taller than a 5’4”er, but really, those five inches are equivalent to 8% of overall height. If the 5’9” man is average in length, as well as height, his would be 6”. If everything were proportional, the 5’4” guy would have one that is 5.5” long.
Women say that size matters, but I can’t believe that five tenths of an inch makes that big a deal in terms of pleasure. Maybe kissing a short guy is awkward, but sex with a short guy might not be that different from sex with a taller guy.
hunter 61
I am 5″10″ and meet women 4’11′–5’1″ all the time. Having their breasts below my belt when I go to hug them is not much of a hug…
jules 62
Am I the only one here who finds a striking similarity between tom’s long-winded posts and jamie’s (#37) ?
tom: “I am fun, incredibly sexy and handsome to boot, not to mention very successful.”
jamie: “…I’m out having fun and great sex with cool, interesting, successful and good looking men…”
i’m not saying they are necessarily one and the same person, but why would a self-proclaimed attractive blonde jump into the debate to clarify what tom was trying to say and end up sounding equally sanctimonious and preachy? She also used the same unrealistic and gut-churning descriptions of short men as tigers in the sack, not to mention the same rhetorical device of juxtaposing a woman’s physical preferences with her psychological stature? (“But while …you are complaining (we complain all the time about men, ladies, admit it), maybe you in the final analysis are really the short one…”)
Quite a coincidence!
Lorena 63
I am very tall for a woman. I am 6’1″ in bare feet. I am dating a man who is 5’5″ on a good day. We look ridiculous together, but we are happy. He treats me way better than the 6’7″ man I was with before. Short men are an untapped resource. When my girlfriends complain that there are no good men left out there, I just tell them to “Look Down!”
Lisa 64
Same reason most men don’t like seriously overweight women. Because size matters, whether it should or not.
m 65
“Is it so superficial to want someone who is in shape?”
No.
It’s just that everyone who is “in shape’ is NOT thin, and everyone who is thin is NOT “in shape”.
It’s just that men — irrespective of what THEY look like, and irrespective of whether THEY’RE in shape — WANT THIN — they could give less of a damn about in shape.
m 66
“2. I am involved in a relationship with a gal from Match who
was one of the more popular ladies on the site in terms
of views (5,000 monthly) and emails (over 200 week).
Most men would kill to go out with her and she chose me …”
Tom is a status hound.
He’s just been more irritated (and vocal) about it until now, and because he’s short, the women that he’s wanted because it gives him status in other mens’ eyes have overlooked him because of a trait that (sometimes) affects status in other womens’ eyes.
Sam 67
M,
Actually, the girl I was referring to who saw a five mile, no elevation gained hike was reasonably thin, but she wasn’t used to physical activity, so a hike of a few miles seemed like climbing Everest to her.
You have a good point, not every thin person is in shape and not every overweight person is out of shape. I have had at least one girlfriend who would be considered overweight. The fat wasn’t on her stomach though, and she was so confident and intelligent that I never, ever would have said anything to her about her weight ever. She exercised too, so I gave her a lot of credit for that. She broke up with me, not the other way around.
I think in general overweight people – men and women – are going to be a lot less likely to be able to do physical things with you. If you’re athletic and/or outdoorsy, not dating an overweight person is not something to be ashamed of, though not something to be proud of either.
I hate to be this honest, but fat on a girl’s stomach is the major turn off. Thighs, arms – cellulite there is okay. But fat on her stomach is a different story.
suzy Q 68
I am 5’2/ 100 pounds, with DDD boobs and a decent face, and I only like to date guys who are taller than 5’11. I dont know why, but growing up short, I just feel like I want my kids to at least have a shot at being tall. Also, I feel like Im hot enough that I dont want other women’s rejects. Maybe this is TMI, but I also like what a taller/stronger man can do to me in the bedroom– I kinda like being thrown around a little, and a shorter (or even skinnier) guy just doesnt do it for me…
Selena 69
Suzy Q–
You wrote, “I feel like Im hot enough that I dont want other women’s rejects.”
What a curious thing to say. If someone is dating you, wouldn’t it follow that he was some other woman’s reject at least once? Or do you only date men who NEVER been in a relationship? Or are the “love ‘em and leave ‘em” types who never stick around long enough to be rejected?
That is such an odd statement I hope you write back to clarify.
Dimo 70
Just a quick note, super handsome will trump short. For example: back in the day, Robert Conrad from Wild, Wild West was 5’6 1/2″ – he didn’t hurt for women – no tall guys could stay with him – Maybe wit the exception Warren Beattie!
Gav 71
At 5′ 6″, I’m not super-short, but still usually shorter than any of my male friends…
I’ve had no trouble attracting the ladies, and for me height is no issue. I am usually attracted to women who are a similar height to me, but I’ve absolutely no problem if her heels make her three inches taller (heels are too sexy to be avoided!)…
All this talk of “all short men have attitude problems” is a ridiculous generalisation and demonstrates woeful ignorance. Sort it out people.
Kristen 72
There is a similar bias against tall women. I’m nearly 6’0 without shoes. Unlike many of my friends (the majority of whom are 5’4 and under) I don’t have any height requirement for men I date. But I’ve found that it’s the rare man of any height who is willing to consider dating a woman as tall as me, at least in the online world.
I’ve also tried my own experiment of changing my height online to see of that was the sole factor and, lo and behold, it’s true. From my experience, 5’7 seems to be the tallest that men online are interested in. I’m sure that height is not the only turn-off in my profile as I’m also an attorney! I deleted references to my profession and online reponses increased even more. But combine my real height and my job and it’s the kiss of death in the online dating world.
What is funny to me is that in the real world I’ve never had any problem meeting men of all various heights who were interested in dating me. If I relied on online dating alone, I’d probably be single forever.
vino 73
Kristen’s #72 –
“What is funny to me is that in the real world I’ve never had any problem meeting men of all various heights who were interested in dating me. If I relied on online dating alone, I’d probably be single forever.”
No s&*t. A crass way of saying that dating is like investing…diversify your investments. Instead of muni bonds, stocks, mutual funds, etc., you do some online dating, join an activity club, book club, or other pursuit. Spend time in places where the guys you like are (do I hear sports bars? lol). While ubiquitous, online dating still isn’t the most organic manner of meeting someone.
Love the tall girls too Kristen. Past faves include 6′, 5’11 & 1/2″, & 5’10″ (also 4’11″, 5’3″, 5’2″- no height preference here). Though, I’ve found many taller women who want guys 6’3″ +. It’s understandable. But online, it has a chilling effect on those 5’10″ guys who believe it’s more likely than not a tall woman wants a proportionately tall man.
That said, I think some shorter guys have that image of the movie Deuce Bigalow, where he come up to her waist (not to mention rubbing her size 23 feet!)…
the foreigner 74
Evan, I love what you’re doing, but I think your comparison is a bit off:
Tom got just about as many unsolicited mails and winks in the Pittsburgh profile as he got in Philadelphia, if you take how many women that actually saw his profile into account (11 vs. 212 views). In fact, he got more unsolicited winks in his “short” profile than in his tall one (18 % vs 13 % wrt views).
I’m short and I do think it matters, especially when you try to filter out dates from a big crowd of people. We do in this a lot in net dating with automated profile searches, but it doesn’t have to mean anything in reality.
So, maybe the best thing is to leave height out of the (searchable) height box and instead write it in the presentation?
In that way you’re not lying, but your profile will still turn up on searches.
Evan Marc Katz 75
1) I don’t believe you can hide your height. Thus, you have two choices: tell the truth or lie.
2) Your use of Tom’s statistics is extremely faulty.
“He got more unsolicited winks in his short profile than his tall one”.
Really? Last I checked, 28 was more than 2. By trying to manipulate these numbers, Foreigner, you willfully ignore the HUGE problem that faces short men who date online.
Who cares of 2 out of 11 people winked at him? He was only seen by ELEVEN people. This is somehow better than being seen by 212 people? Honestly…
starthrower68 76
I guess I see where the women who are coming from think that being with a bigger guy make them feel more dainty and feminine, but isn’t it really a matter of how, say a short man would treat a woman as to whether or not she feels feminine? If he treats her in a gallant, chivalrous way, then that is what makes me feel more feminine. Tom does have a lot going for him. I’m sure someone out there will recognize that he is fabulous.
Michael Ejercito 77
There is a similar bias against tall women. I’m nearly 6’0 without shoes. Unlike many of my friends (the majority of whom are 5’4 and under) I don’t have any height requirement for men I date. But I’ve found that it’s the rare man of any height who is willing to consider dating a woman as tall as me, at least in the online world.
I have met women that tall that I would be willing to date.
Rob 78
Geez folks – time to go to a cancer ward and feeling too short or too tall will go away fast I promise.
Jeanne 79
Rob, you said it all!
I’m of the Shania Twain’s “That Don’t Impress Me Much” school of thought regarding what constitutes a good man. I dated a man who was shorter than me who was absolutely wonderful. I dated a man who was 6 ft. that was every negative stereotype of men and dating.
But your example of Tom is not a good one. Tom is a big success story. it doesn’t matter if 200 women or just 1 flocked to him. If its about finding the love of your life, all it takes is just one.
I think the category that has it the toughest are women in their 50sw. My girlfriends in that age who are on match and who are good looking, accomplished, kind, fun, mentally healthy do not even have men lwho ook at their profiles, let alone date them. Their “who’s viewed me” is empty.
Sahaja 80
Wow, I never thought a topic could get so heated! I suppose that all of us have one thing or another we would love to change about ourselves and can’t, reasonably (plastic surgery not withstanding) Whether we are short, or have a funny nose, or oddly small toes, you can never know what the deal breaker is for someone else. And if they are not into what you have, then why would you want them anyway? As for the whole short man debate, I too used to date tall men only (I’m 5’3″), but my last bf was the exact same height and it didnt matter in the whole wanting to date him dilemma, bc his personality and great sense of humor put aside anything else. So who knows, really?
Zain 81
In response to Mara (I know her post is really old but I still wanna respond to it)
We have had a short president James Madison America’s fourth president was 5’4” They’ve also been many short men who have become world leaders and men of power, authority, and distinction
Winston Churchill who was prime minister of the UK was 5’7”
Sarkozy the President of France is 5’6” Silvio Berlusconi the prime minister of Italy is 5’4” Vladamir Putin President of Russia is 5’5” There are also many more
I also think the whole “because we have so many Asians that’s why men are short” is absolutely absurd and racist.
Futhermore the whole “hunter gatherer” theory of why women choose tall women because of genetic instinct that tall men are better hunters is also absurd in cavemen days it was short men who made the best hunters not tall men their small frames made it easier for them to hide and get the drop on prey (hiding behind a rock or crawling unseen through prairie grass) shorter men also had quicker reflexes which made it easier for them to hurl projectiles and prey infact the average neanderthral was only 5’5” shorter men consumed less energy and less food (which was important because food was always limited) so in caveman days it was short men doing all the hunting the hunter caveman being this tall hulking man is just a romanticized version of what prehistoric humans were but not in any way a scientifically accurate one
Even in war and battle (or anything for that matter) the tallest one is not always the one who leads it’s the one who’s most intelligent has the most resources and the most charismatic
Look at the Vietnam War, the average American soldier was 7 inches shorter then the average vietcong soldier yet it was the Americans who lost Vietnam
just some stuff to ponder about.
James 82
Here’s what I don’t get. Why do many people–male and female–think it’s OK to make comments about the height of short people (especially short men), but would never think of making a comment to someone about their weight, skin color, or physical disabilities? We all have at least some control over our weight and body toneness (is that a word?), but none of us can control how short or tall we are. I am a 5′ 2″ man. Countless times I have been asked how tall I am. I would never consider asking a heavy person how much he/she weighs. Why the double-standard?
Shari 83
re: James – I don’t think people asking your height is the same as asking someone their weight. I think because it’s an uncontrollable thing people are more comfortable with bringing it up. And it doesn’t just happen to shorter people. My boyfriend is 6’4″ and gets asked all the time how tall he is. I don’t think it’s a double standard at all, just our humanness that makes it easier to ask about inches rather than pounds.
A-L 84
I finally feel as though I can comment on this topic. I’m short (5’1″) and have never had an issue with any of my date’s heights (which have ranged from 5’4″ to about 6’4″). Last night, however, I went on a date with a man whose profile said he was 5’4″ (but in reality, he wasn’t). I wore 2″ heels and at the end of the date I actually had to lean down to kiss him on the cheek. I don’t mind kissing a guy who’s head is level with mine, or taller, but that sensation of going down? No way. That moment made me feel as though I was with a kid, which does not me want to engage in any other physical activities with the person.
Maybe it’s because this was my first time that it completely shocked my system, but I have to agree with the women who want someone who’s at least as tall as they are.
Sam 85
Wow, this comment train has been going on for a year. Like I said in Comment #2, I question why it’s okay to say things and ask questions which could lead to a person feeling self-conscious about his/her height, but it’s not okay to do the same about a person’s weight.
Then again, I do it too. I’m 5’8” and I’m dating a girl who is 5’1”. The top of her head comes up to my chin. More than once I’ve just had to say “you’re so little!”
I’ve NEVER done this, but I’ve heard very small women complaining about people trying to literally pick them up. (in some contexts that’s harassment). I doubt that any fat people get requests for people to use their fat folds as stress balls.
hunter 86
I went on a dating site, and set my requirement for meeting a single woman, no less than 5’4″ and got very few prospects. I noticed the number of single women increased as, I lowered the height status…
hunter 87
that was five feet, four inches…in the previous post…
Ashley Ju 88
I’m pretty short myself being asian
5’3. For some reason I’ve always been more attracted to guys that are aout 6 feet, over, or just under since I started dating in the 8th grade. Its very simple really. Women like to feel feminine sometimes. We can have better jobs, or have a higher IQ but we like having a man around to make us feel girly every once in a while. I know the most amazing and sweetest guy thats about an inch taller than me but it just feels like I’m not standing next to a man… like I’d be dating a boy if I went out with him. Shallow I know but most men are too so I say it’s a fair trade. Do you think a man would rather go out with an ugly girl or a hot girl?
hunter 89
on post #88
Women all over this planet are attracted to men 6 feet tall and over, that is just, plain, basic law of attraction. Tall men tend, to make a woman feel “safer”. Making a woman “feel” safe, is the foundation of most relationships.
I work around herds of men, and, have noticed, most have married the plain, average, girl next door type.
A-L 90
I don’t know how I missed the end of Sam’s comment (#85) but I will say that it’s true about people trying to pick up the shorter folks. I’m 5’1″ and my best (female) friend is 5’10″. I’m the one who always seems to get picked up and thrown around (including over a guy’s shoulder in Peru where I almost flashed the whole audience…long story). She, however, always remains firmly planted on the ground even though I have a fuller figure than hers. Apparently there’s something about little people that just screams, “Pick me up!” Can’t say I’m complaining though. Particularly since my dating pool is far larger than my best friend’s, due to the variance in our heights (she wants a guy who’s 6′+).
Zain 91
Post 88 Ashley Ju:
The average height of a North American male is 177cm that is about five feet nine and a half inches. Men who are 6’0” and over. Make up only a small portion of the male population (around 20 to 25%) and that’s being generous. It could very well be lower then that. The fact is that by insisting on only dating men who are 6’0” or over you have eliminated more then half of the male population. and your chances of finding a compatible mate plummet. because let’s face it. Height is perhaps the worst indicator of future compatibility. You are really selling yourself short (pardon the pun) by weeding out such a large portion of the male population before you’ve even gotton to know them. If you are attracted to tall men that’s fine. but rejecting a shorter guy and not even giving him a chance is rather shallow and immature.
You say dating a short men would feel like you are dating a boy. Are short men not real men? By the same logic should I assume a tall woman is not a real woman? because women are always suppose to be small and dainty? don’t you see how your logic falls apart? Futhermore being “short” and being “ugly” are not the same thing. Far from it. Being ugly is subjective it’s not something that can be measured like height. Ugliness differs for every person. What’s ugly to you may be attractive to someone else. So therefore you can’t compare being short to being ugly.
hunter 92
to Zain on post #81,
Fact is, a woman’s world of relationships, is not about statistics. It is about the word, “attraction.” Most women are attracted to very tall men, even if there is a smaller number of tall men in existence. Mostly, women don’t seek compatibility, until they are 40 years old.
Also, most of the time, the word “Logic” does not exist in a woman’s world/relationships. Its us guys, that are limited by logic………LOL!
Michael Ejercito 93
This would mean a lot of women would be alone during their 20′s and 30′s- unless they are willing to share a man.
Zain 94
to post 92 hunter
You sound quite rigid in your convictions I must say. First of all, I never argued the fact that women are attracted to taller men. However while many women prefer tall men that doesn’t always mean they will NEVER date a short man. Even on this site a few women have even defended short men so what you are saying is not in stone, there are always exceptions. I find it interesting you say “very tall men” though One of my good friends is 6’7”, He often complains women reject him because he is too tall. So taller does not necessarily mean better. You bring up the point about safety and how tall men make a woman feel “safe” While I agree with this I still find it rather irrational. “Safe” from what exactly? What is it that she needs protection from? Futhermore no amount of height is going to save you if your assailant is armed with a knife, a gun, a 2×4 etc. Most crooks carry weapons. Height is not a guarantee of safety. All it is, is an illusion.
I find it very disturbing and sad when you say compatibility and logic don’t mean anything (or very little) to women. As if you are saying All women are dictacted by their vaginas and are not intelligent emotionally evolved adults. Yes I am attracted to women with large breasts and an hourglass figure, however those aren’t the apex of what I’m looking for, personality and compatibility are much more important.Hence why I wouldnt automatically reject a women who didn’t have those physical traits if she had other things I was looking for. That’s what it means to be a logical intelligent, emotionally evolved adult.
Zann 95
I’d like to respond to Zain’s last post (and don’t confuse the two of us — I’m Zann, female, and he’s Zain). I’m actually a little shocked that this short-man debate has gotten so much mileage…you’d think we were discussing the roadmap to world peace or something. Sheesh. Anyway, I appreciate Zain’s defense of women’s concerns with compability and putting other male traits above a man’s height. And (surprise, Hunter) women are actually quite logical. Women spend a hell of a lot of time and precious energy trying to understand and accommodate the behaviors of men because personality and compatibility are important to us, and I believe that’s true of women well before age 40. For most women, even if a guy has great physical endowments (which is very subjectiive and relative) he’s going to need more than that for her to consider him more seriously. In my opinion, that’s a very fundamental difference between men and women, because I’ve known many men who can ride the shallow wave of a woman’s physicality for a long time, no problem, no questions asked. But in terms of the “safety” thing with women who seem to want a great big man, I have the same question as Zain…safety from what? I’ve known some pretty bad-ass short men, and if someone’s armed or psycho, Mr. Tall Guy isn’t going to automatically save the day. What I hear women say is they want to feel “little.” As in small and helpless. As if being a taller or bigger woman is taking up too much room or means you’re not lady-like. Nonsense. Women don’t do other women any favors by wanting to be small and helpless, because, for one thing, it’s a lie. We are NOT small and helpless, regardless of how tall or short we are. And why would you want to be? If you’re competent and believe iyou’ve got a right to walk tall with confidence, people will regard you that way. So, damn, don’t waste time wishing you were smaller or taller. You are what you are. Different strokes and all that.
A-L 96
I wouldn’t necessarily take a guy’s advice on how a woman chooses a mate. Women don’t fall in love by looking at a guy’s appearance. They fall for a guy because of what he says & how he treats them. Physical appearance plays a role in the initial attraction, but it’s certainly not the be-all, end-all.
At the same time, however, it’s fruitless to point out that women’s desires for a taller man is ridiculous and shallow. Attraction is what it is. Though some don’t like the comparison to weight because people do have some influence over it, there are many other factors over which people have no control, with race being one of the primary ones that come to mind. Asian men may be discriminated against by white women, but black women are discriminated against by almost all other races of males…how many times will a man’s profile list his willingness to date any race, so long as she’s not black? Instead of arguing that a guy is racist and really should consider women from all races a black woman just realizes that this obviously isn’t the right person for herself and moves on. The same should hold true for anyone else barred from someone’s list because of disabilities, race, height, etc.
My $0.02.
Zain 97
I hear this quite often “it’s pointless to argue about it attraction is what it is” I’m aware that my rantings on how shallow and rediculus it is to discriminate on height are probably not going to change any minds. It’s not about changing minds it’s about opening them. Yes many women are shallow when it comes to height. and there is very little I can do about that, but I really don’t see what obligation short men have to be quiet about it. I’m not saying women don’t have the right to be shallow or they don’t have the right to date who they are attracted to. I just think “shallow” choices should not be certified as “good choices”
I mean if we are going to discriminate on the basis of a trait they have no control over why stop there?
“I’m sorry i can’t date you, your neck is too wide”
lol whatever.
Maddie Cartoonist 98
I’m a slender 5’4″ woman in my 40′s, considered good-looking. My 2 ex husbands were 6 foot and 5’8″. I’ve dated seriously two men who were 5’3″ – 5’4″ and lots in between.
I actually prefer shorter men. Guys in the 6 foot range are just too uncomfortable to deal with. They are problematic to kiss–it gives me a stiff neck trying to reach up there. It’s hard to walk together with our arms around each other. Their stride is too long for me to keep up when they walk normally.
Also, tall men in their 40′s and 50′s always seem to be wrecks. Knee problems, back problems, neck problems, etc etc. Give me a well-proportioned man who is structurally sound any day!
Finally, tall guys are inconvenient. They take up too much room in bed (& they will complain unless you have some kind of extra special long bed), they always claim the aisle seat on the plane (because they’re so “uncomfortable” otherwise–but hey, I’d like to site in the aisle seat sometimes too!), and they insist on moving the driver’s seat of my car way back even if they are just taking it to the gas station, while never remembering to return it to it’s proper place.
On the other hand, reasonably-sized men…..mmmmm! I like my short men strong and fit. But you guys gotta be confident! 1) Don’t lie about your height or wear lifts in your shoes! Total turnoff. 2) Don’t whine about me wearing heels when we go out. This makes me feel bad and you look like an idiot. 3) and of course it goes without saying, Napoleon complex = not dating me!
Chelsea 99
I am 5″7 and am what most would consider a “girly girl”. I love looking feminine, and I embrace my curves. I enjoy getting dressed up to go out, and have quite the collection of high heeled shoes, 3-4 ‘ stilettos being my favourite. When I go out to clubs, I often feel as if I am towering over everyone. So if I were to date a shorter guy, I feel as if it would just accentuate my height and rather than appearing feminine, I would appear to be a gargantuan/amazonian beast. Women are supposed to be petite and delicate. How are we to feel protected when we are with a man that we tower over or outweigh. I personally refuse to date anyone under 6ft tall. I want to feel as if he would be able to protect me in a dangerous situation, I want to feel small, and delicate, and feminine, and I want to be able to wear my heels without making my partner insecure. I think its bizarre to see tall women dating shorter men… It looks awkward, and more like a mother and child than two consenting adults in a relationship. I feel for the short guys, but there are lots of petite women out there. My sister is 5’2. So they should stick to people of similar stature when looking for a mate. Personality can only get you so far in a relationship, that animalistic physical attraction needs to be there as well. And that just does not exist for me when it comes to short men.
Zain 100
Post 99 Chelsea
I find your post quite shocking from what I’ve gathered you seem to think there is only one physical standard when it comes to dating. The man must always be bigger and taller then the women. You say it looks bizarre when a tall woman is with a short man? by the same logic do you think it’s bizarre when you see:
A black man with a white woman?
A skinny man with a large or chubby woman?
A rich woman with a poor man?
An athletic man with a out of shape woman?
Ever heard the phrase opposites attract?
lol I could go on and on and on. You say that a tall woman and a short man look like mother and child. I could say the same thing about a tall man and a short woman that they look like father and daughter. Futhermore, You have any idea how many women outweigh their husbands and boyfriends? Women put on weight much easier then men do they carry more fat cells. and have a higher percentage of bodyfat. On average women aren’t THAT much smaller then men contrary to what Hollywood has taught you. The majority of women (especially black and caucasion women) are anything but “small and delicate” A woman does not need a large hulking man to feel feminine. A woman is a woman regardless. The problem is YOU not him.
See the gapping hole in your logic? It seems to me. Height is very important to you but it’s for all the wrong reasons. You need a tall man to protect you in a dangerous situation? Wow I had no idea tall men were bulletproof and resistant to knife attacks. Your boyfriend could be as tall as Hulk Hogan but if a dangerous violent crook wants to do harm to him or to you.
He’ll find a way.
The majority of violent offenders are armed with weapons. He could also have several of his buddies to back him up in which height and size will be of little help. If you really want to feel safe when you go out perhaps you should avoid seedy areas that make you feel unsafe?
It seems to me that physical requirements are at the apex of what you are looking for. This is rather sad.
You are by all means entitled to date whoever you are attracted to However your justifications are laughable and Your logic is very weak as well and flawed. Animalistic physical attraction? lol what drivel. Humans are logical thinking creatures it is what seperates “us” from “them”
Tyler 101
Zain,
I just don’t see the point of trying to convince someone who isn’t attracted to your type to reconsider. I am short with an average-size hour glass figure. I don’t try to convince men who prefer tall, thin athletic types that they really should be attracted to me. It’s losing battle and life is too short to waste time on something you can’t win. Plus, I don’t begrude anyone their preference as there are loads of men who do like my type. So, I say just go for women who like short men — and there are plenty that do.
One other thing, I think people only begin to look outside their preferences when they can’t attract the people who are their preferences. If a woman prefers tall, great guys and she attracts them, why would she go out with a short, great guy? There really is no reason for her to do so.
Karl R 102
Chealsea (#99) wrote:
“if I were to date a shorter guy … I would appear to be a gargantuan/amazonian beast.”
Kerri Walsh is 8″ taller than you. I would call her an amazon. And when I look at Kerri Walsh, I think “Wow!” She’s definitely hotter than her 5’9″ partner, Misty May-Treanor.
“How are we to feel protected when we are with a man that we tower over or outweigh.”
Let me count the ways:
1) Date a police officer who carries a gun and has been trained how to use it.
2) Date someone who has practiced martial arts.
3) Learn and practice martial arts, so you can feel safe and protected even when your man isn’t around.
I advocate the third option. It’s the most reliable.
“I personally refuse to date anyone under 6ft tall. I want to feel as if he would be able to protect me in a dangerous situation,”
Thanks for the comedic relief.
Get your boyfriend a handgun, a concealed-carry permit, a bulletproof vest, and 100 hours of practice at a shooting range. He’ll be able to protect you far better in a dangerous situation than your average NBA star … even if he’s 5’2″.
“I want to be able to wear my heels without making my partner insecure.”
If your partner feels insecure when he’s with a woman who is taller than him, then he’s insecure. A secure man feels secure regardless of the height of his partner.
“that animalistic physical attraction needs to be there … And that just does not exist for me when it comes to short men.”
This is sufficient reason to avoid dating a short man. Short men don’t turn you on.
Your attempts to make your preference seem like a logical decision, however, are hilarious.
hunter 103
to Zain on post #94
You are attracted to the hour glass figure with D-cups? Yet, that is not the apex of what you are looking for? How strange, most men, would find such a woman very compatible and with lots of personality!……LOL!…Seriously, the few(hour glass/D-cup women) that I have met, and talked to, amazed me. It was not the women that lacked in personality….
hunter 104
to Zann on post #95
You say women are quite logical, hhhmmhh.,,,,
hunter 105
to Zann on post #95
Read Mark Evan’s recent letter to him about a woman who got her face punched, she divorces him, yet, continues to have sex with him. Or how about the woman that knows that the man she is seeing is not going to marry her, yet, she won’ leave him, until, the “right” one comes along. Are these women using logic?
hunter 106
to Zann on #95
Or maybe I should rephrase that, is this particular mode of reasoning, viewed as valid?……
Zain 107
To Tyler:
Tyler Said:
‘I just don’t see the point of trying to convince someone who isn’t attracted to your type to reconsider. I am short with an average-size hour glass figure.’
I’m not trying to ‘convince’ people to be attracted to people they are not attracted to. That is an obvious straw man argument. What I am doing is pointing out flawed logic and irrational behavior. It’s up to them to own up to it. If these women want to continue being illogical and irrational. That’s their choice, however someone who refuses to grow and change, refuses to scrutinize their own way of thinking or at least put things in a logical reasonable perspective, is not a very desirable person to want to be around in my opinion.
Tyler Said:
‘I don’t try to convince men who prefer tall, thin athletic types that they really should be attracted to me. It’s losing battle and life is too short to waste time on something you can’t win. Plus, I don’t begrude anyone their preference as there are loads of men who do like my type. So, I say just go for women who like short men ‘ and there are plenty that do.’
I’m sorry but this is just straw man argument built ontop of another straw man argument. Yes people have preferences but that is not the issue. The issue is so many women value height so much that it is no longer a preference but a requirement.
‘I like what I like’ is just another circular argument.
Tyler Said:
‘So, I say just go for women who like short men ‘ and there are plenty that do.’
Wow that’s just sound advice why didn’t I think of that! (okay enough sarcasm) Yes there are women who don’t mind short men however the numbers aren’t very encouraging. Just go on google or any dating forum. You’ll find plenty of articles and threads about how short men struggle more then anyone when it comes to dating. If what you are saying was true you wouldn’t hear so much about the subject. I’m sorry but the numbers just don’t check out.
Tyler Said:
“One other thing, I think people only begin to look outside their preferences when they can’t attract the people who are their preferences. If a woman prefers tall, great guys and she attracts them, why would she go out with a short, great guy? There really is no reason for her to do so.”
Because the tall great guy is not the one asking her out? but the short great guy is? Futhermore, The tall great guy could be gay, already taken, not looking for a relationship, etc Of course all things being equal if she had a choice she would choose the tall guy over the short guy however things rarely workout that way. Are you saying she shouldn’t even give the short guy a chance even if the tall guy is unavailable? If she rejects him solely on the basis of his height (a trait that has nothing to do with who he is btw) and doesn’t even give him a chance to show her what kind of person he is she is being shallow, irrational, and illogical. Like I said if she can own up to it and admit it fine, She’s still behaving foolishly but acceptance is atleast alot better then justification. She atleast knows she is hindering her own progress when it comes to finding a mate so really she deserves the hinderance.
Zain 108
To hunter:
No an hourglass figure and D-cups are not the apex of what I’m looking for. They are preferences not requirements. If you are looking for a one nighter then by all means be as shallow as you want. However when it comes to a LTR Compatibility and personality should taken with more consideration. Not saying looks are not important, they are. However other things are even more important when looking for a mate.
I never said ALL women were logical. I’m not a woman so I cannot speak on behalf of them as an authority and neither can you. but to make the claim that logic and reason mean nothing to the entire female gender is just silly.
Your article is interesting however it doesn’t prove or disprove anything. Futhermore, I know plenty of men who get treated like crap by their girlfriends .They were verbally abused as well as physically yet they still stayed with them because they were attractive Can you explain how men are any more logical then women?
Tyler 109
Zain,
Based on the heat I felt from your reply, I can see that women who dismiss short guys really bother you. However, I don’t think the way to help women — or anybody for that matter — to grow and change is to insult and belittle them. I didn’t say anything mean or condescending to you or short men in my reply. Yet, I feel like I’ve gotten the smackdown from you just for expressing what my personal experience has taught me — it is useless to get people to change their preferences, requirements or whatever you chose to call them. I’ve found it’s not my business to change people. It’s my business to change myself. When I accepted that fact, the world became a much more fun place from me to live.
However, if you are committed to getting women to consider your case for why they should date short men, you might want to stop calling them irrational, illogical, and shallow. It’s really hard for a woman to listen to anything a man has to say when he has told her that she is foolish and stupid.
hunter 110
On #108
Men that I know, who stay in an uncomfortable relationship, have already been divorced once, some twice, and they refuse to pay for another divorce.
I think that, not all women are illogical, irrational and sometimes irritating. It just, may be that there is a bigger “pool” of them out there, that are….
hunter 111
to Tyler on #101
Most men I know, stay with the woman that is attracted to them……
Shari 112
Why is it that so many people get on the bandwagon for short men, but no one wants to talk about how an overweight woman should be appreciated for who she is and what she brings to the table, and not for her body size? Men are allowed to say they aren’t attracted to a woman over a certain size and that’s okay, they’re attracted to who they’re attracted to. But when a woman says she’s not attracted to a short man – which, by the way, is also a person of a certain size – because shes attracted to who she’s attracted to, she’s told she’s not giving the guy a chance.
So for the men here who have been all over that argument, would you go out with an overweight woman?
hunter 113
To Shari on post #112
There seems to be more, large, single, available women. My only requirement, is that they fit in my car, I drive an import.
Michael Ejercito 114
It is easier for to lose pounds than to gain inches.
Shari 115
So Hunter in Post #113 – you’re perusing your favorite dating site and my profile pops up. I’m very honest and say, that while I don’t qualify as a BBW, I am a size 20, well proportioned, and not sloppy. But the profile that’s next to mine has all the same amenities as I offer – such as equal intelligence, humor, etc – except she’s a size 6. You’re going to contact me rather than her?
Shari 116
Michael in #114
Some overweight women are happy with where they’re at with no desire to lose weight, so that puts them right in the category of the short man. My point is not how easy it is to change, but how the bias exists with overweight women and is accepted because it’s okay to be turned off by body size as long as it’s the width of the body size, not the height.
hunter 117
On post #115,
I normally won’t ask a woman about her dress size. If a size 20 fits in my car, yes, I would ask her out…..
Shari 118
Hunter on #117
You’re avoiding my question. For the sake of making the point we’re going to say my profile admits to me having extra padding, and the profile next to me is listed as fit and athletic so you don’t need to inquire about either of our dress sizes. In all other areas she and I are equal. If you’re like 85% of the men out there, you’re going to pick Miss Fit & Athletic over Miss Extra Padding before even getting to know us.
This is why I think the debate over height being an unfair bias to men misses the point that weight is as equally unfair to the overweight women. To argue against women who don’t like short men because that’s their personal preference and label them as being narrow sighted, without facing the fact that men do the same with overweight women, is only accepting half the reality. If it’s okay for a man to bypass the overweight woman without getting to know her, then it’s just as okay for a woman to bypass a short man.
The bottomline is, if anyone can’t see past your height, weight, hair color, religion, or whatever it is about you that makes you different, then they aren’t worth your time. Someone will come along who appreciates you for what’s on the inside and it’s the person who takes the time to find that out who’s worth spending your time with.
Zain 119
Tyler Said:
“Based on the heat I felt from your reply, I can see that women who dismiss short guys really bother you. However, I dont think the way to help women or anybody for that matter to grow and change is to insult and belittle them. I didnt say anything mean or condescending to you or short men in my reply. Yet, I feel like Ive gotten the smackdown from you just for expressing what my personal experience has taught me it is useless to get people to change their preferences, requirements or whatever you chose to call them. Ive found its not my business to change people. Its my business to change myself. When I accepted that fact, the world became a much more fun place from me to live.”
Id be lying if I said women dismissing short guys didnt bother me. It does, However Im even more bothered by, flawed logic, irrational behavior, generalizations, and especially Straw man arguments. You are deliberately misrepresenting my position on the subject matter to make my arguments easier for you to refute and make your own arguments stronger. This is wrong and unethical. I dont recall insulting or belittling you or anyone in any of my posts. I never called anyone names or made any threats. All Im doing is like I said before pointing out flawed and illogical behavior. Im sorry if that comes off as mean or condescending because that is not my intent. However people will get angry when you punch holes in their arguments they interpet that as an insult or personal attack. We need to get one thing straight. Im not attacking you, Im attacking your position on the subject matter.
Tyler Said:
it is useless to get people to change their preferences, requirements or whatever you chose to call them. Ive found its not my business to change people. Its my business to change myself. When I accepted that fact, the world became a much more fun place from me to live.
Read my older posts. Im not trying to change anything. Its up to THEM to want to change their views youre doing it again, making straw man arguments If these women can refute my position with logic and reason Ill shut up, but until then Ill continue punching holes in their arguments.
Tyler Said:
“However, if you are committed to getting women to consider your case for why they should date short men, you might want to stop calling them irrational, illogical, and shallow. Its really hard for a woman to listen to anything a man has to say when he has told her that she is foolish and stupid.
LOL so what are you suggesting exactly?
These are just more Straw men, I said they were irrational illogical and shallow, not foolish and stupid. Rejecting someone on the sole basis of a trait they that have no control over and has nothing to do with who that person is That is the very definition of shallowness, irrationality, and illogical behavior. You cant argue with facts.
Would you like to try again?
Zain 120
Shari Post #118
Men do discriminate based on weight the same way women discriminate on height and yes it is shallow however weight and height are not the same thing.
First of all, Weight can be changed, height cannot. Fat people can always lose weight however it is impossible for a short man to get taller (unless they resort to limb lengething surgury an extremely expensive painful time consuming procedure which only adds at most maybe 2 and a half inches of height) When I see a woman who is very overweight it usually tells me a few things.
She lives an inactive and unhealthy lifestyle and she does not watch what she eats. When you see a short man what does that tell you about him? nothing, absolutely norhing, Being overweight effects your health and longevity being short does not. I don’t know about you but I’d like a girl who has a strong ticker and can keep up with me. I’m aware that there are some people who are overweight due to conditions that are not in their control (they have a medical condition such as weight gain put on during pregnancy weight gain due to medication and so fourth) However I’m positive that for every woman who’s overweight due to a medical condition They’re 20 women who got that way due to things like laziness, piss poor diet, and so fourth.
Being a short man is not the same thing as being a fat woman a fat man is the same as being a fat woman.
Zann 121
Shari makes a very valid point. First, let me clarify: I like short men. Maybe because I’m a small woman. But I also like big men & those in between. For me, it all comes down to what kind of male energy I get off the guy. But to put it bluntly, why should women spend a lot of time sympathizing with the short man when what he goes through is nothing different than what probably 75%+ of the female adult population goes through daily, repeatedly — women who fall outside what our culture has identified as “the ideal weight.” Meaning, we are influenced by our culture. This is not rational thought, it’s all subjective. It isn’t innate, and it hasn’t always been like this. It’s learned behavior. And it will stay like that until people start making the effort to look beyond body size when “sizing up” a potential mate. Good, SEXY people come in all sizes. Sure, you can keep your deeply held biases; it’s your call. But — practically speaking — why decrease your options with something as random and, for the most part, genetically related as height, body size?
And geeeeez Louise, can we talk about something else now?
Shari 122
Zain in #120
See my response to Michael in post #116.
The sad thing is, most people feel as you do about overweight people – men and women alike – and don’t give them a chance based on who they are first. My point is, if that’s acceptable, then how come we’re all over women pushing aside short men? A bias is a bias and the outcome the same, the inner person is never explored because of the societal stereotype of the outer person.
Lena 123
I know this blog post is from over a year ago, but whatever happened to Tom? Did he eventually find a girlfriend? Is he currently in a relationship? (The link in the original post to his Match.com profile says “profile not found.”) Somebody update us, please. Thanks!
Tyler 124
Zain,
There is nothing to try. In your world, you have the facts on your side — women are being shallow, irrational and illogical in dismissing short men.
In my world, I have facts on my side too — women don’t care if they are being shallow, irrational, and illogical in dismissing short men because in the area of love and attraction — for many people — both men and women — logic and reason don’t matter to them…being shallow doesn’t matter to them. Do you think that by calling women shallow it will somehow shame them into wanting to behave differently? We live in a shallow, appearance-rules society. People no longer are ashamed to be shallow — they embrace it.
So, Zain, all I was ever trying to point out is that is your audience just isn’t buying what you’re selling because they don’t care about it and and they don’t want it — it might actually be what they need, but it’s not what they want. You want to sell logic and reason and fairness and they want to buy chemistry and attraction and passion. You can continue to argue with that if you want, but I’ve got the facts on my side on this one….loads of women won’t give short men the time of day.
Finally, Zain, let’s be honest, you could care less if women in general gave short guys in general a shot. You just want more of the women YOU find attractive to give YOU a shot. And, you know what, that’s ok too. Cause we also live in the ME generation.
By the way, in the last paragraph of your post #107, you did in fact call women foolish….
Like I said if she can own up to it and admit it fine, Shes still behaving foolishly but acceptance is atleast alot better then justification. She atleast knows she is hindering her own progress when it comes to finding a mate so really she deserves the hinderance.
Zain 125
When it comes to weight it is not just about attraction. It’s a health issue. Being overweight is just not healthy. That is a fact. and I’d never reject a woman who was a little on the bigger side to me that’s not really overweight. (I like curves actually) As long as she’s got the energy level (and a nice rack to boot) reel her in! Futhermore very few men have “weight preferences” or “weight requirements” as in they narrow it down to some number. In my entire life I’ve never heard of a woman being rejected because she weighed 120lbs instead of 115lbs Yet I’ve seen tons of guys get rejected because they didn’t meet some height “cutoff” that plenty of women have. So I’ll say it again it’s just not the same thing. Zann you say that 75% + of women go through the same thing when it comes to weight? I find that very hard to believe. Even if that was true it doesn’t matter. Weight can be still be controlled. Height cannot. So who do you think I’m gonna sympathize with more? I agree it is shallow to discriminate on weight however it’s even more shallow to discriminate on a trait that they have no control over.
As for post #116 so what if those women are happy with their weight? If that’s the case then she shouldnt care if a guy rejects her because she’s too big for him. The bottom line is if a large woman is being rejected because of her weight she can atleast do something about it. Short men however do not have that luxary.
So I’ll say it again and again and again.
IT IS NOT THE SAME THING
and let’s not forget all those men who love bbws
Tyler 126
Weight might be about health for some men but for many men (and women) who are really honest, it’s about looks — plain and simple. And, you know what? I say the same thing to overweight people — even if they can change their conditions. Don’t try to convince people who don’t find you attractive that they should at least try to get to know you because it doesn’t work. How many married women start a relationship thin and gain weight for whatever reason and their boyfriends/husbands are no longer attracted to them. These men know these women on the inside, but when they no longer feel physically attracted to them, serious problems arise in the relationship. Why you ask? Because a critical component of romantic relationships is physical attraction. End of story.
I really don’t understand why people even feel that they have to justify their preferences. I don’t and won’t and I don’t care what other people think. I think (and I include myself in this observation), people often bristle at preferences when they don’t meet it. So, on my unenlighted days, I do feel down when men say they like younger women, thin, athletic women, or white/asian/latino women. Why — because I am old, curvy, and black. If I were a young, thin, hot Latina chick, I wouldn’t mind those preferences one little bit.
As I was saying, I don’t feel I have to justify my preferences. Who wants to defend why they like the color blue or why daisies are their favorite flower. Importantly I don’t expect men to justify their preferences either. I never ask men why they like younger women, or skinny women, or outgoing women. I’m only concerned about if they like the type of woman I am.
Zain 127
Tyler Said:
In my world, I have facts on my side too women dont care if they are being shallow, irrational, and illogical in dismissing short men because in the area of love and attraction for many people both men and women logic and reason dont matter to thembeing shallow doesnt matter to them. Do you think that by calling women shallow it will somehow shame them into wanting to behave differently? We live in a shallow, appearance-rules society. People no longer are ashamed to be shallow they embrace it.
Now you are contradicting yourself. First you said I shouldnt call women shallow irrational and so fourth now you are saying that they dont care and that they embrace it? So in that case its okay to for them to be labeled as such. LOL so tell me Tyler which one is it? I even said that acceptance of shallowness is better then justification if she owns up to it, fine by me. You say that women dont care if they are labeled as shallow and irrational, well if thats the case why do they get so defensive why you call them out on that behaviour? Why did you feel so obliged to respond in the first place?
Tyler said:
“So, Zain, all I was ever trying to point out is that is your audience just isnt buying what youre selling because they dont care about it and and they dont want it it might actually be what they need, but its not what they want. You want to sell logic and reason and fairness and they want to buy chemistry and attraction and passion. You can continue to argue with that if you want, but Ive got the facts on my side on this one.loads of women wont give short men the time of day.”
Just who elected you spokesperson for everyone on here? You dont speak for everyone you can only speak for yourself. And honestly judging by your tone you are clearly getting personal. Please learn to attack the persons position rather then the person Logic and reason are things I cant instill I keep telling you. Its up to them, not me. Logic reason, fairness, chemistry passion and attraction These things can go hand and hand. There are women on here who have said they are open to dating short men and have defended short men. So yes these women can be logical and rational.
“but Ive got the facts on my side on this one.loads of women wont give short men the time of day.”
What is the point of this statement? I never argued otherwise.
“Finally, Zain, lets be honest, you could care less if women in general gave short guys in general a shot. You just want more of the women YOU find attractive to give YOU a shot. And, you know what, thats ok too. Cause we also live in the ME generation.
I do care because I am a Short man. However even if I wasn’t flawed logic is still flawed logic. It doesn’t matter whether it’s related to height or not.
Tyler said:
“By the way, in the last paragraph of your post #107, you did in fact call women foolish.
I said they were BEHAVING foolish. But so what? According to you they dont care if someone calls them illogical, or shallow, why would they care if I called them foolish?
Perhaps they should embrace it?
Zain 128
Tyler Said:
“Weight might be about health for some men but for many men (and women) who are really honest, its about looks plain and simple. And, you know what? I say the same thing to overweight people even if they can change their conditions. Dont try to convince people who dont find you attractive that they should at least try to get to know you because it doesnt work. How many married women start a relationship thin and gain weight for whatever reason and their boyfriends/husbands are no longer attracted to them. These men know these women on the inside, but when they no longer feel physically attracted to them, serious problems arise in the relationship. Why you ask? Because a critical component of romantic relationships is physical attraction. End of story.”
No no one should be forced to date someone they are not attracted to. If she simply does not find short men attractive fair enough. However here are some reasons I hear of why women dismiss short men.
1. I like to wear heels
2. Short men have Napoleon complex
3. My father/ex-boyfriend/brother is a short man he is mean
4. A short man cant protect me in a dangerous situation
5. People will laugh at me because hes shorter then me
I could go on. Notice that NONE of these have anything to do with attraction. These are just shallow and illogical reasons used to justify what women call a preference (when in reality its a requirement apparently many women just convince themselves that a requirement and a preference are the same thing.) As for husbands no longer being attracted to their wives when they put on weight, so what? What does that have to do with anything? Marriages and relationships end up dissolving for all sorts of reasons and many of those reasons have nothing to do with physical attraction. Futhermore Ive known countless women whove said they would NEVER date a short man yet they ended up marrying one or dating one anyway. Or women who say damn hes cute, too bad hes too short so really how much of it is about attraction?
Tyler Said:
“I really dont understand why people even feel that they have to justify their preferences. I dont and wont and I dont care what other people think. I think (and I include myself in this observation), people often bristle at preferences when they dont meet it. So, on my unenlighted days, I do feel down when men say they like younger women, thin, athletic women, or white/asian/latino women. Why because I am old, curvy, and black. If I were a young, thin, hot Latina chick, I wouldnt mind those preferences one little bit. ”
Preferences are fine, we all got them however when one trait is so valued it trumps over all traits. Thats not a preference its a requirement. And when a physical trait is more important then anything else (meaning he could be everything you are looking for but hes an inch or two below your cutoff then you are putting a physical trait above everything else and yes that does mean you are shallow. If you dont want to justify it, thats fine you dont need to date who you like but it doesnt change the fact that you are still shallow.
Tyler Said:
As I was saying, I dont feel I have to justify my preferences. Who wants to defend why they like the color blue or why daisies are their favorite flower. Importantly I dont expect men to justify their preferences either. I never ask men why they like younger women, or skinny women, or outgoing women. Im only concerned about if they like the type of woman I am.
I never asked you or anyone to justify your preferences. Frankly, preferences are not even the issue.
Tyler 129
Zain,
This will be my last reply to you because consistent with my original position, it is useless to try to change a persons mind about anything unless the person actually has the desire to change or to view things differently. So, here I go.
Just like most human beings, I have said and done contradictory things a time or two in my life, but not in this instance. Just as you accused me of purposely misstating your argument, you have done the same to me. I never indicated that you shouldnt call women irrational, illogical or shallow because your assessment of their behavior was incorrect . What I said was that from my experience, is it counterproductive to call people names if you actually want them to listen to what you have to say. If women are thanking you for pointing out the foolish of their ways and are becoming eager to date short men, then keeping doing what you are doing. However, if you are not having success, then maybe a new approach is in order.
Who appointed me representative of all women? I am self-appointed.thats the nature of blogs. Regardless of whether or not it is true, many of us to extrapolate from our own experiences and attribute our observations to all. Im willing to admit that. Are you? The interesting thing is when I did say that I was just relating my personal experience, you weren’t any more likely to value my viewpoint.
The crazy thing is, Zain, that I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. Im not certain why you dont see that. I said two things that I will continue to stand by — people dont open themselves up to change unless they want to you will be fighting an uphill battle to get women especially women dating on-line to let go of their requirement for a tall man. Second, if you want to persist in your quest, you might try delivering your argument without insulting them in the process.
I thought about your statement that I was attacking you and I was tempted to apologize, but then I realized I have no need to do so. If you feel I was attacking you because I said that your motivations werent really for the good of all man and womankind but for yourself, then so be it. It was an attack that simply indicated you are human and driven by self interest just like the rest of us.
As for your charge about shortness not being about attraction, I strongly disagree. There are at least two components to physicalthe face and the body. How many overweight women have been told they have beautiful faces but the body doesnt match? Have you heard then term butter face? It refers to a woman who has a great body, but an ugly face. Why do so many men insist on a face and body picture? Because they dont just want a cute face; they want a hot body too. So just because a woman thinks a short man is handsome, she can still find his short stature unappealing therefore she is not physically attracted to his entire package. So, shortness can still about physical attraction and chemistry.
Regarding your statement that people break up for many reasons yes that is true, but that fact is not inconsistent with my assertion that for both men and women, when the physical attraction they felt for a partner disappears, that can cause significant problems in the relationship. So, my point is why try to start a relationship on a shaky foundation in the first place Im not really attracted to you, but Ill give you a chance anyway. Yes, I know, some people grow more attractive as you get to know them. But, when dating on-line, the illusion of abundance makes people feel that that they dont need to compromise on their physical requirements including height.
Finally, you mentioned that you know women who have said that they would never date a short man, but they did and some even married short men. Well then, Zain, I guess height isnt an unshakable requirement for all women afterall. Perhaps you should talk to those women and find out what made the change their minds. Im willing to bet it wasnt because the guy told them that their behavior was irrational, illogical, shallow, and foolish.
Zain 130
Tyler Said:
“Just like most human beings, I have said and done contradictory things a time or two in my life, but not in this instance. Just as you accused me of purposely misstating your argument, you have done the same to me. I never indicated that you shouldnt call women irrational, illogical or shallow because your assessment of their behavior was incorrect . What I said was that from my experience, is it counterproductive to call people names if you actually want them to listen to what you have to say. If women are thanking you for pointing out the foolish of their ways and are becoming eager to date short men, then keeping doing what you are doing. However, if you are not having success, then maybe a new approach is in order.”
I already stated from the beginning that I dont think Im going to change anyones mind on the subject matter. However I still wanted to state my opinions on the subject regardless on why I believe these women are being shallow irrational and illogical. This is a blog people talk about things that interest them. Im not some holy crusader I have no agenda. This has nothing to do with being counter productive. Its just an opinion thats all. You say that my assessment of their behaviour is incorrect how so? Please explain so far youve provided nothing that refutes my arguments aside from wave after wave of straw man fallacies that were very easily shot down. You accuse me of calling people names please show me where I called anyone an idiot, a moron, a jerk etc. I described a state of behavior. I never called anyone any names. And yes you did infact contradict yourself. By saying that I shouldnt call these women shallow then you turn around and say that they embrace this behavior now you are saying that my assessment is incorrect lol see how you are going around in circles?
Tyler Said:
“Who appointed me representative of all women? I am self-appointed.thats the nature of blogs. Regardless of whether or not it is true, many of us to extrapolate from our own experiences and attribute our observations to all. Im willing to admit that. Are you? The interesting thing is when I did say that I was just relating my personal experience, you werent any more likely to value my viewpoint”
You self appointed to only speak for YOURSELF not all women.. Thats the difference. While I do value your viewpoint that doesnt mean its more valueable then anyone elses Your viewpoint is just one of millions so really no its not that valueable.
Tyler Said:
“The crazy thing is, Zain, that I am not disagreeing with what you are saying. Im not certain why you dont see that. I said two things that I will continue to stand by people dont open themselves up to change unless they want to you will be fighting an uphill battle to get women especially women dating on-line to let go of their requirement for a tall man. Second, if you want to persist in your quest, you might try delivering your argument without insulting them in the process.”
There is no quest. I already stated many times that women are free to date whoever they like. Its their choice to be shallow its their choice to be illogical Im just stating what I think So tell me what quest are you on? You feel so obliged to keep returning to these blogs ? Funny thing is I actually agree with what YOU are saying as well. Im not certain why YOU dont see that either. And lastly, I didnt insult anyone I dont know why you keep jumping back to that.
Tyler Said:
I thought about your statement that I was attacking you and I was tempted to apologize, but then I realized I have no need to do so. If you feel I was attacking you because I said that your motivations werent really for the good of all man and womankind but for yourself, then so be it. It was an attack that simply indicated you are human and driven by self interest just like the rest of us.
Nothing wrong with attacking somebody as long as you attack the persons argument rather then the person themselves Humans are driven by self interest however I already said why I care about why women give short man a shot I am a short man. So in a way you are right However just because Im concerned with my own interests as a short man doesnt mean Im not concerned with anyone elses I have no idea where you got that from.
Tyler Said:
“As for your charge about shortness not being about attraction, I strongly disagree. There are at least two components to physicalthe face and the body. How many overweight women have been told they have beautiful faces but the body doesnt match? Have you heard then term butter face? It refers to a woman who has a great body, but an ugly face. Why do so many men insist on a face and body picture? Because they dont just want a cute face; they want a hot body too. So just because a woman thinks a short man is handsome, she can still find his short stature unappealing therefore she is not physically attracted to his entire package. So, shortness can still about physical attraction and chemistry.”
Youre missing the point. I never said that shortness wasnt about attraction. What Im saying is it isnt ALWAYS about attraction as in when a woman rejects a short man it isnt always because she doesnt find short men physically attractive it could be: false stereotypes about short men, bigotry, ignorance insecurities (Oh no people will think we look weird together etc) and so fourth these reasons have very little to do with physical attraction. Rejecting short men because one is not physically attracted to short men is very logical. Youre forgetting another component mental/emotional. Ive met women who were very physically attractive. Yet when they opened their mouths and started talking and showed me what type of personality they had I was instantly turned off. Physical looks are important but they will only get you so far. And if you want anyone to stick around long term youre gonna need more then just looks. Once people see your true colors how good looking you are wont mean a damn thing. Ive met plenty of tall good looking guys who had great bodies. Yet women still wouldnt give them the time of day because they were obnoxious rude, or socially inept. I know women who are very attractive yet their SOs while not ugly, arent really considered good looking by traditional standards and no their SOs are not rich and they are not tall. so tell me Tyler how do explain that? I see plenty of couples like that. Futhermore I dont know about you but Tall does not automatically guarantee handsome Theyre just as many ugly tall men as theyre ugly short men. Short men can have great attractive bodies because its much easier for a short man to build muscle then it is for a tall man.
Tyler Said:
“Regarding your statement that people break up for many reasons yes that is true, but that fact is not inconsistent with my assertion that for both men and women, when the physical attraction they felt for a partner disappears, that can cause significant problems in the relationship. So, my point is why try to start a relationship on a shaky foundation in the first place Im not really attracted to you, but Ill give you a chance anyway. Yes, I know, some people grow more attractive as you get to know them. But, when dating on-line, the illusion of abundance makes people feel that that they dont need to compromise on their physical requirements including height.”
I already established already that physical attraction is important and people should date who they are attracted to why is this so hard for you to understand?
When it comes to finding someone to marry I would think physical requirements were even less important. You want someone who shares your beliefs, values, compatibility, is this man going to be able to provide for our family? Will he be a good husband? A good father? Does he love me? Do I love him? If physical looks are ALL you are concerned with to the point where your physical requirements are so rigid they wipe out more then half of the gender population and there is no room for anything different here is some advise. Dont get married. Ever would why Hollywood marriages never last? When a marriage is based purely on physical looks thats not exactly a stable foundation either. Some of the most shallow women I know they share something else in common. They are either divorced or still single.
Im not saying women should change what they like in a man however what is so horrible about giving someone a chance? I mean if you are that physically repulsed by short men fine, however everyone has a certain type or preference (I said preference not requirement) Whats so bad about trying something different once in a while? Theyre so many women I know who said they go for tall men yet they ended up with a short man anyway and they were very happy and satisfied. Short men and tall men are not any better then eachother why limit yourself?
Tyler Said:
“Finally, you mentioned that you know women who have said that they would never date a short man, but they did and some even married short men. Well then, Zain, I guess height isnt an unshakable requirement for all women afterall. Perhaps you should talk to those women and find out what made the change their minds. Im willing to bet it wasnt because the guy told them that their behavior was irrational, illogical, shallow, and foolish”
Very true.
Its because they found out on their own they were behaving that way. Like I said its up to THEM not me.
Rebuttal? Or are you true to your word and this really is your last reply?
Give it a rest, people! 131
To: Evan
It’s time to close the comments on this thread. Basta! This conversation is going nowhere.
To Zain and Tyler;
Give it a rest. Turn off your computer and get out of the house.
Zann 132
To Whoever left this last comment (Give It A Rest, People) –
Amen.
hunter 133
to Shari on #118
hhhmmhh…I have always wondered why there are herds of miss “fit,” having dinner, in restaurants, with several other women(no men), on saturday nights. Now I know, its because men select them first…..LOL!……
Shelly 134
I’m 5’6” and around 5’10” in heels I’ve dated men who were not only shorter then me but weighed less then me as well. I’m attracted more to a guy’s face and his personality then I am to his body. When he laughs when he smiles when he’s talking. I pay more attention to that Then I do to anything else. I couldn’t care less how tall he is or how ripped he is.
Traci 135
I am a short woman, and I can never find the shorter guys! Where are they hiding?? I am 4’7″, and would love a guy, who sort of knows what I’ve dealt with, being a regular, shorter person in society. I loved this article. If anyone has any clues, let me know! I’ve dated the taller guys. I want a chance to date a shorter guy..
hunter 136
Keep looking, men are a dime a dozen. You might find them at the hardware store, auto parts store, car swap meets, new car exhibits, at the gun store, coffee shops(for breakfast, early breakfast) etc….
Michael Ejercito 137
Of course, many of those men are unavailable.
Sayanta 138
I’ve heard Paul Simon’s been married a bunch of times- maybe Tom should become a rock star.
I’m just teasing.
I sympathize, but what I’m going to say has already been mentioned by most of the women here already. I’m 5’7, slender, never leave the house without my high heels, and up until two years ago, I refused to date anyone under 5’10. I just felt weird being that much taller than a guy. Then I realized how I was selling myself short (no pun intended), and decided to start dating men 5’7 or above. I’m sorry, I just can’t go below that. Like Evan said one time (I hope I’m not misquoting)- you’re attracted to whomever you’re attracted to.
Remember one of the blogs where an ‘outgoing, direct’ woman had written in saying that she doesn’t find attractive, eligible men? Evan said something along the lines of a man wanting to be with someone who makes him feel masculine. I’m not going to quote that blog word for word here obviously, but it’s the same thing here. A woman wants to be with someone who makes her feel feminine. I think the reason why people are feeling more sympathy for the short guy is because you can’t change height, but you can change personality.
The thing is, though- I’ve had male friends and family members who’ve gotten married in spite of their short heights. One of them is a doctor, and he’s five feet tall. His wife is 4’8. My cousin is 5’5, and he just got married last year- the woman is 5’3. So, it definitely is possible! A couple I know has been married for forty years, and the wife is three inches taller than her husband.
Tom- like I said, I sympathize with your situation. I haven’t met you, obviously, but you seem very confident, and down-to earth, from your comment. I was wondering, though- what are women’s reactions to you outside of the ‘online’ scene? Online, my dating requirements are 5’8 to 6+. But if I’m out with friends, and I’m getting chatted up by a cute guy who happens to be a little short, I would totally go out with him. Yeah, I know that doesn’t make sense considering what I’ve just said, but there you have it.
But these short men who’ve chatted me up obviously had no qualms about their height- or if they did, they hid it well. So, are women responding negatively to you when you go out? If so, do you think you might be subconsciously sending signals where you expect to be rejected? Because if you already think somehow that women just aren’t into short men, women are going to read that and lose interest.
Now- again, from what Evan said, you seem to have a lot going for you. But none of us know what you’re like with a woman one-on-one. I’m not putting all the blame on you, of course, but as many people have said before me, the common denominator in all our relationships, or lack of, is US.
hunter 139
Sayanta, I am starting to find out, that, short women are real gems. 4’11″ to 5’2″…most are not jaded/tainted/hurt/discouraged/angry
Sayanta 140
Hunter-
I’ll introduce u to some of my short girlfriends. That’ll change your mind.
BTW- I didn’t think I sound jaded, etc, in my post. What made you think that?
Michael Ejercito 141
Sayanta, I am starting to find out, that, short women are real gems. 4?11? to 5?2?most are not jaded/tainted/hurt/discouraged/angry
Many of them are fun to hang out with.
hunter 142
Sayanta, I believe there are, women 5’7″, with long necks, that wear stilletos/hooker heels/4″ heels/thigh high boots and take short steps/shuffle their feet, who are not tainted, I wasn’t referring to your post.
Sayanta 143
So I take it the above posters have gotten acquainted with all 600 million short women on the planet?
hunter 144
Ha! ha! You’re funny! Made me laugh! Thank you.
Karl R 145
Sayanta said: (#138)
“Evan said something along the lines of a man wanting to be with someone who makes him feel masculine. [...] its the same thing here. A woman wants to be with someone who makes her feel feminine.”
There is something to what you say, but I think it’s a bizarre way to change how you feel about yourself. By that line of reasoning, I should hang out with stupid people in order to make myself feel smarter.
If someone feels secure in their masculinity (or femininity), then they don’t need outside validation. In my opinion, it’s a lot healthier to be secure in who you are regardless of the validation you receive.
But as Evan frequently points out, it’s not helpful to Tom Pandolfo (or others like him) to say that other people ought to change their attitude.
A-L 146
I know I’m a woman, feel like a woman, am fairly feminine and feel very secure with all of those things. But put me around a bunch of gymnasts who are between 4’5″ and 5′ and weigh less than eighty pounds and I’m going to feel like a giant/monster (and I’m only 5’1″). I’d feel as though I need to protect them and that I could easily crush them. Granted, these gymnasts are all in tip-top physical shape, are extremely strong, and don’t need any protection from me. Yet this is how I’d feel around them. And the feelings of needing to protect and being able to crush others do not make me feel feminine. It’s the same thing about being with a guy who is shorter than you. They can be stronger than you and able to do most anything physically, but it totally changes the dynamic. Which is also a reason why I don’t want to date a guy who weighs less than I do (even if he’s significantly taller than I am). Just a different iteration of the female perspective.
hunter 147
A-L, it is interesting, how you would feeling being around gymnasts.
Velma 148
This prejudice against short people is a bunch of bullsh-t. I get the same thing because I have a physical characteristic that decreases my value on the dating market, which is also a bunch of bullsh-t. It’s a completely arbitrary feature (like shortness) that causes people to discount your other qualities. It’s funny because it’s so superficial and “unfair.” Here is something that means absolutely nothing in day-to-day life but that determines a good portion of someone’s value in the eyes of others. It’s really ridiculous. The people here who try to justify it (something about the “Napoleon Complex” – ha!) are rationalizing. (Why not point out the “Egotistical / Reluctant to Commit” complex of tall and handsome men?!)
I remember dating a very tall, good looking guy once, and walking around town with him. Standing next to him, it was astonishing how differently people treated him vs. others (or me) because of his appearance. When he approached someone, their facial expression and body language were instantly welcoming. I was amazed by this because I had never experienced that treatment before, as someone with an unappealing appearance, when I walked around myself. At that moment I realized that entire experience of the world, day-to-day, is different for a tall and traditionally attractive person.
Actually, my very good looking boyfriend dated me when I had a medical procedure that masked my physical not-quite-prettiness for a little while. After the effects of the procedure subsided, our relationship started having trouble for “other reasons” and we broke up. To this day, a small part of me wonders if I might have been treated differently as a very good looking person. Even kind, responsible, mature people can be very superficial. Part of it is entrained into our genetics and the tendencies we are born with. I myself am naturally attracted to tall, attractive men! It takes some effort and imagination to suppress those instincts.
One reason people can maintain these prejudices easily is that they can rationalize them. If there are two job candidates and they differ in 200 different ways other than their appearance, it is easy to say you chose the good looking one because of one of his other characteristics, and not because of his looks.
I noticed that my good looking ex got the benefit of the doubt and a bunch of second chances in general, in life. People wanted to support him. It was pretty astonishing.
With my particular physical problem, there are medical procedures to fix it, and sometimes I seriously wonder if I should undergo them. There is a lot of pain, high risk, and a very very high price tag (think $100,000) to undergo procedures that might transform me into a person who has an advantage in society. However, the transformation would give me an advantage that is totally arbitrary and that depends on the prejudices of others, and has nothing to do with my actual traits. Would you do it? Sometimes I wonder if I should.
This has been a digression from the dating topic, but I figured it was relevant…
Also, this comment thread has inspired me to take a second look at short guys on those dating sites (and in general!). I bet there are some excellent gems in that group.
chris 149
I am a strong independent 5’4 145 lb female. The men I have dated in the past have all been over 6’1. I always wear heels. I am no petite lady & have always preferred taller guys because they made me feel safe, and ladylike.
Wow!! what a load of crap I’ve fed myself most of my life.
A few months ago I met a guy who is 5’5 thru mutual friends. He is the most handsome man I have ever set eyes on. He is also kind, successful & very talented. He is thoughtful & treats me better than anyone ever has. Yet I kept making excuses as to why I didn’t want a serious relationship with him. Truthfully it was just his height.
I am happy to say that I have finally realized that my feminism is on me not my partner, I can protect myself and that even a short man can protect me & care for me just as well as a tall man if not better at times.
He loves my heels & is confident without the macho ass attitude & that is so much sexier than any extra inches ever could be.
Ladies do yourself a favor & get your own inner confidence & stop being shallow & you too may just meet someone amazing that you would have otherwise missed out on.
Sayanta 150
the thing about short guys is, you just can’t slow dance with them.
Karl R 151
Velma said: (#148)
“To this day, a small part of me wonders if I might have been treated differently as a very good looking person. Even kind, responsible, mature people can be very superficial.”
First of all, you made a number of very astute and thought-provoking comments.
Second, I think you would be treated differently if you were very good looking. There’s no doubt about it. It would be a rare individual who would treat you the same. Most people would be more willing to make exceptions and give you second chances.
On the other hand, that extends to many qualities, not just looks and height. If you’re funny, people will give you second chances. If you’re likeable, people will give you second chances. One of my dance teachers joked, “I learned to dance so I could stop working on my personality.” His dancing skill earns him a lot of second chances.
There are a lot of ways to get the benefit of the doubt and second chances. Most of them don’t require lots of pain, high risk, and $100,000.
arthur 152
Ill put my 5’8 2 cents in. Its all about confidence. Yes us short guys (Im 5’8) do ahv eot work a little ahrder with the taller ladies, but I revel in the challenge. Yes they might ahve in the back of their mind a little that your short all the time, but relax and show them how great us “short” guys can be. If they reject you jusy move and and smile as they missed out on the best opportunity of their lives YOU gentlemen.
BTW I get rejected by a lot of taller women all the time, but I also seem to go out on dates more as well with women taller than I
Sayanta 153
5’8 is not short! It’s the average male height. For me, short is 5’6 and below.
hunter 154
Sayanta, I know what you mean, I have slow danced with short women, they massage my belly button with their breasts, but what are we to do?(with a shortage of available tall women)
A-L 155
I won’t comment as to whether or not 5’8″ is short for a man, but I will say that I’ve recently become very attracted to men in the 5’6″-5’8″ range as that’s a perfect height for me (5’1″). (In the past, I’ve had taller fellows who are more in the six foot range.)
A-L 156
I just found the coolest website (http://www.shortsupport.org/Research/analyzer.html). In it you can give your height and then it will tell you what percentage of people of your sex are shorter or taller, as well as giving percentages about people of the opposite sex that meet certain height criteria.
Here are some of the things I found most interesting:
3% of the male population is 6’2″ or taller
11.7% of the male population is 6′ or taller
30.4% of the male population is 5’10″ or taller
56.5% of the male population is 5’8″ or taller
79.9% of the male population is 5’6″ or taller
93.4% of the male population is 5’4″ or taller
98.5% of the male population is 5’2″ or taller
I was too tired to look through the website to see if these are US or world statistics, but it’s still rather useful. Puts it in rather harsh perspective that if you’re looking for a guy who’s 6′ or taller that only about one out of ten men even meets that requirement (much less if they have the education, religion, etc that you’re interested in).
Karl R 157
A-L, (#156)
Nice study. It says the statistics are for the U.S., women ages 18-60, men ages 18-65.
It also demonstrates how you expand your dating pool by expanding your height range by a few inches.
A-L 158
Yeah, I was also struck by how much the dating pool changed by changing the numbers a bit. Increase your range from 6′ to 5’10″ and you triple your dating pool. And if you give up 4″ from the 6′ mark you increase it by five times. Definitely something to think about. However, since I’m open to dating 93.4% of men (and if they were super-fantastic then 98.5%) I don’t feel much need to change my own preferences.
hunter 159
Oh yes, I know if I make a 5ft. 4in, and above height requirement, my matches are few, if any.
tallgirl 160
As a 6′ woman I’d say this article is for tall women as well…. Believe me. guys are initially facinated but men like to feel they have the “upper hand”. Im sure Tom would go for a 4’8″ woman if they were more of them ot there for him. No sympathy here….
datingsisyphus 161
Evan,
Like you, I have NO IDEA why women are so hung up on dating taller men. Who cares? What difference does it make?
I guess I just profit from the irrationality by dating “better” men, who happen to be short.
Len 162
Look women will go for a tall man who has a criminal record, DUI”S drug record, bench warrants, you name it they love them…… Drunks addicts. an the list never ends….. It’s a total control issue where a man is such a loser they have the ability to threaten to leave him an he is at their beck an call. Yet a hard working employed successful man who isnt 6 ft tall is considered a loser. It really adds up to the USA has the worst women in the world. They overly spoiled demanding an materialistic. WEB sites from around the world brag about this to women looking for Good American men. Even Oprah herself has been taken back by American women with one of her shows she aired.
I guess that is why their is about a 9 month waitting list for good shorter men to Go to places like Russia an get a wife. In my neighborhood lately more an more Russian brides an from other countries are arriving. They even shake their heads at american women. One from Germany said American women are completely nuts, so did the other women who have come here. Its not the mens fault but they are way to shallow ( american Women). Now stop an think about this the men are paying on avgerage 10,000 US dollars to bring them over here. Now lets add she wont have a job for a while if ever. They buy her a car clothes an everything she needs. Who are the losers here the american women who are struggling to make a living while women from around the country come here an laugh at them because they want a tall unemployed , drunk , drug addict, mommies boy, whatever the reason. These women are beating you Tall fixated american women all over the place. Money quality of life, education ( theirs is a whole lot better) better clothes, more stability, you name as you sit their wondering what the heck is going on ……????????Waiting for this imaginary tall prince charming to come to you ……… an he never does…. But hey you can pick him up at the bar or jail…… or with his other girlfriend…
hunter 163
Len, some women wise up, after the age of 40.
kenley 164
Len,
All the things that you indicated these foreign women are receiving from American men are material in nature. So, how exactly are they better than American women?
grayson 165
Kenley,
having travelled to many foreign countries I can say that foreign women are not nearly as height biased as Western women. Futhermore while it’s true that they are probably looking for a green card and may leave you high and dry it doesn’t matter because alot of Western women divorce their husbands and end up taking half their stuff anyway so it makes no difference really.
hunter 166
Grayson, yes, you speak the truth!…
Sayanta 167
Going back to the whole short man thing- I just realized Michael J. Fox has been married for what…forever? So it can happen, people.
grayson 168
Sayanta.
You are aware that Michael J. Fox is rich and famous right? You can’t examples like him or Tom Cruise and say “see short guys can get women these guys did it!” (Which is basically what you are saying) These guys are millionaires! Any guy could easily get a woman if he was a millionaire regardless of what he looked like. The fact that Short Hollywood male celebrities are able to find women to marry means absolutely nothing to the average short man. because most short men are not rich and famous.
Sayanta 169
“You are aware that Michael J. Fox is rich and famous right? You cant examples like him or Tom Cruise and say see short guys can get women these guys did it! (Which is basically what you are saying)”
Yes, I’m aware of that, thanks. But this started as a post about Tom- who’s close enough to famous since he’s been on the ABC show with Evan and everything. So my comment’s specifically for him.
jensen 170
ok. first off i am a short man. i am 5’1″. too all of those out there that say short men should date short women, i totally agree. here is the problem. short women DO NOT LIKE short men. short women always want some 6 foot plus kind of guy. i happen to love short, petite girls. but they do not give me the time of day. in all honesty im more likely to date a girl who is 5’6″ – 5’7″. because for some reason they will accept me. i do feel really odd sometimes being so much shorter than my date, and i especially hate heels. (more so the chicks that wear heels for no apparent reason.) in closing. short guys always draw the short stick. pun intended.
grayson 171
“Yes, Im aware of that, thanks. But this started as a post about Tom- whos close enough to famous since hes been on the ABC show with Evan and everything. So my comments specifically for him.”
Yeah. sure it was, You never mentioned Tom or Evan’s name in that post and you ended it by saying “so it can happen people” So the only logical assumption to make is that it was directed at everyone. It’s obvious you are backpeddling to cover up the fallacy you made.
Zann 172
GEEZ-LOUISE, people. Grayson: Can’t you just take what is helpful in these posts & leave the rest without all this bashing of others’ comments? These are posts by people looking for input, not ridicule.
Some women like short men, some don’t. Then again, some women like dark-skinned men, some don’t. And some women want a man pulling in a large salary, and some don’t care.
It’s not a perfect science, so there’s nothing to prove here. Live and let live.
grayson 173
Zann:
That’s the thing though what she said WASN’T helpful. I was pointing that out. Sorry but I’m a very cut-throat ruthless type of person. In my type of profession you have to be. It’s no different then me saying “hey ugly old guys can get women look at Donald Trump”
my advise to short guys is this.
1. Don’t dwell on something you can’t change you are just going to give yourself alot of grief. just accept it’s an issue and move on.
2. Instead of obsessing about WHY short guys are overlooked work on what you can do to make yourself more attractive so that women will give you a chance DESPITE your height.
3. Do something that builds confidence and raises self esteem join a gym, take martial arts, (the ultimate confidence booster) Women can spot a guy with no self confidence a mile away as a short guy you are already at a disadvantage. So you have to be much more agressive and much more proactive when it comes to the dating scene and the extra self confidence will help with that.
4. Prepared to get rejected. ALOT This is where the extra self confidence comes in so when a rejection happens you can just shrug it off. As a short guy You NEED to develop the thickest skin possible. You have to be tough.
5. If you have the funds and the resources look into European or South American women. (My gf is from Brazil) They are not nearly as height biased this height obsession is more of a North American thing.
6. As a short guy you are going to be stereotyped so the best thing to do is not behave in a manner that encourages that stereotype (ie nepoleon complex) be assertive and tough without being pushy or domineering.
7. Lastly NEVER EVER EVER take dating advise from a woman. Women change their minds constantly and don’t know what they want they are notorious for saying one thing and doing another. Instead take dating advise from a man who you know is succesful with women or even better yet a short man who is successful with women (and yes there are plenty of them out there)
hunter 174
Grayson, finding an advisor that is sucessful with women is not an easy task. Most will not tell. Reason being,(I’ve been told) when he goes back to his woman, she senses, he was talking about relationships.
Evan Marc Katz 175
Hunter…Grayson…
You DO know that my real job is not blogging, but actually helping men and women become more successful in dating and relationships.
The short man who wrote this initial post, Tom Pandolfo, came back to me for a SECOND coaching series last year and is now in a happy, healthy, loving relationship.
Click here to learn how you can get the same thing:
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/dating-coaching/
Your friend,
Evan
hunter 176
EMK is hilarious, at times.
Sayanta 177
“Sorry but Im a very cut-throat ruthless type of person.”
Um- ever think that maybe THIS is the reason for your date problems instead of your height?
PS- There are plenty of short men in my family (none rich and famous) who are happily married.
Joe 178
PS- There are plenty of short men in my family (none rich and famous) who are happily married.
If I recall correctly, however, you are Indian. How many of those marriages are arranged ones?
A-L 179
My dad’s 5’4″ and he’s found three different women to marry him. He’s not famous either, and only one of the women was not American. Interestingly enough, all three women are taller than him too.
grayson 180
“Um- ever think that maybe THIS is the reason for your date problems instead of your height?”
Where did I ever even say I have dating problems? It’s funny you even would assume that when I’ve revealed almost nothing about myself to you. My girlfriend is Brazilian. however she’s been living in the U.S for most of her life. Having travelled to Brazil and various parts of Cental America and Europe, I stand by my assertion that this height thing is more of a North American phenomenon. Male height is still valued, however it’s worse here then in other countries. When I was in Brazil I saw literally hundreds of couples where the man was the same height only slightly taller or the female was taller. I saw similar trends in other countries as well. You also assume I’m short, I’m actually 5’9”, which makes me average height. and yes as a lawyer I’m VERY ruthless women actually like a man who is in charge so quite the contrary it’s worked towards my favour in the dating scene. Therefore your assesment is 100% incorrect on several levels. Nice try though.
“PS- There are plenty of short men in my family (none rich and famous) who are happily married.”
That’s great, kudos to them provided they were genuine love marriages and not arranged marriages where the women didn’t have much of a choice.
Sayanta 181
#180-
“Where did I ever even say I have dating problems?”
Simple. Your posts are bitter- I’m sure you didn’t become that way for no reason. Plus- you’re on this blog. Most people who are on this blog (myself included) have found their way here because of initial frustrations, or whatever you want to call it, about the opposite sex. By the way, I’m a lawyer as well- there’s plenty of us (successful ones) who are not ruthless. Of course, the ones who ARE give the rest of us a bad name. (It’s interesting how you seem to prize the quality of ruthlessness, and think women actually want men like that- it’s actually quite frightening. Let’s hope you never get your hands on an atom bomb). And if those women actually like you BECAUSE you’re ‘ruthless,’ I’m praying for those women right now, because they’re obviously seriously disturbed. And if you genuinely think being ‘ruthless’ is a great way to date, I would get some counseling, if I were you, because you obviously have anger issues- which was apparent when you took my comment about Michael J. Fox so seriously.
And since you’re a “fellow” lawyer, you should probably know that it’s bad to assume specific facts about a certain group of people without basis. I’m not a big fan of arranged marriage myself because I just happen to be a romantic. But it is a complete falsehood and damaging misconception that women have no choice in arranged marriages. This was true in earlier generations: nowadays it’s no different from an elderly Southern belle introducing her single daughter to the nice young gentleman from church.
Ok- I’m done here, thank you very much. If you want to pick a fight, use your adversary for a verbal punching bag- not me.
Sayanta 182
Joe and Grayson-
Only one of those five men have had arranged marriages.
MrG 183
I am 5’4″ USA born, getting a date has always been a huge Handicap for me. The reality that a short guy has to deal with (if you keep on keeping on) is the eventual rejection overload. On top of this handicap, I have (had) a very shy type personality, which adds to the social handicap. I eventually married (7yrs), later divorced, single again for 13 years, then remarried, and unfortunately divorced again after 9 years of marriage (I will not go into that long story here). I have been single now for 3 years, and have recently discovered a new world that has completely changed all this headache & heartache. So much so that I have made it into a new business personalmatchmaker.net If you are interested in knowing more get in touch.
grayson 184
“Simple. Your posts are bitter- Im sure you didnt become that way for no reason. Plus- youre on this blog. Most people who are on this blog (myself included) have found their way here because of initial frustrations, or whatever you want to call it, about the opposite sex. By the way, Im a lawyer as well- theres plenty of us (successful ones) who are not ruthless. Of course, the ones who ARE give the rest of us a bad name. (Its interesting how you seem to prize the quality of ruthlessness, and think women actually want men like that- its actually quite frightening. Lets hope you never get your hands on an atom bomb). And if those women actually like you BECAUSE youre ruthless, Im praying for those women right now, because theyre obviously seriously disturbed. And if you genuinely think being ruthless is a great way to date, I would get some counseling, if I were you, because you obviously have anger issues- which was apparent when you took my comment about Michael J. Fox so seriously”
I am by no means a bitter person, quite the contrary. I have a great life, and good job a great girlfriend Therefore Your smug revelation is ill concieved. Futhermore your attempt to paint me as some sort of violent volatile figure who should be feared is pathetic. Resorting to shaming language, and personal attacks, is pretty sad especially for someone who apparently has an alleged law degree. My ruthlessness has lead to me having a very successful career as a civil litigator. It’s won me cases. You are attacking my character instead of sticking to the issue. A good debater wouldn’t resort to such nonsense. It doesn’t matter what I think about my opposition personally I would never disrespect them like that and utter such nonsense. You have alot to learn about what it takes to be a real lawyer young lady. (If you really do practice law) Futhermore, Unless you have a degree in phychology as well this diagnosis of yours that I need councelling is meaningless.
“And since youre a fellow lawyer, you should probably know that its bad to assume specific facts about a certain group of people without basis. Im not a big fan of arranged marriage myself because I just happen to be a romantic. But it is a complete falsehood and damaging misconception that women have no choice in arranged marriages. This was true in earlier generations: nowadays its no different from an elderly Southern belle introducing her single daughter to the nice young gentleman from church. ”
A classic pot calling the kettle black I’m afraid. You’ve already assumed a number of things about me that had no basis and were unfair. I never said you were a fan of arranged marriage or anything like that. So I fail to see what your point is really because I never assumed such a thing. Futhermore I’ve traveled to India and Pakistan and arranged marriage is still a common practice. and for the most part the women usually DON’T have a choice. A sikh collegue of mine told me about his 19 year old sister who ran away from home because her parents were planning to have her married off to a man in his forties. While he still keeps in contact with her her family has disowned her So yes it still happens even in the Western world. I also never assumed anything about your relatives I specifically said “provided if” because I didn’t know whether they had arranged marriages or not. Futhermore the situation you are describing regarding the southern belle if that’s an accurate one regarding how “new arranged marriages” done. Then that can’t be considered arranged marriage at all.
“Ok- Im done here, thank you very much. If you want to pick a fight, use your adversary for a verbal punching bag- not me.”
and you weren’t using me as one? insult someone then lerave this is the typical tactic of a hit and run artist.
grayson 185
correction: i said “provided they” “not provided if” however it still doesn’t invalidate my original point. I never assumed all your relatives had arranged marriages.
just need to clear that up.
thewrongdossier2000 186
Sayanta, grayson give it a rest.
if you guys are really both are lawyers then I’m not surprised.
hunter 187
Sayanta/Grayson, you two are sounding more and more like a couple that has been married for decades, are you two, sure you don’t want to meet in person?….hhhmmhh…
Abbey 188
@ Shari
Comparing weight to height is comparing apples to oranges. Overweight is a sort of lifestyle disease, whether the woman wants to lose it or not. Being short statured is a physical attribute and even if a man wants to lose his ‘shortness’, there is no way he’d be able to do it, normally. Moreover, being overweight is a sign of bad health, lazyness and sloth. (Before you come up with the ‘hormonal overweight’ argument, I might clarify, as a medical professional, that less than 1% of the general population in any country suffers from the hormonal problems that trigger weight gain. My sympathies are with them, just like they are with any person facing a congenital disability).
@ Zann
Being attracted to slim women is the biological conditioning of being attracted to healthy mates. It isn’t ‘cultural conditioning’ or ‘learned trait’ no matter what the American weight sympathisers would have you believe. By the way, where did you pick up your “75% women go through..” statistic from? I’d love to get that (since I enjoy taking the mickey out of my American pals).
@ Zain
I can get your point which I think Tyler and a few others totally missed out. (They are flogging a dead horse thinking its you.) The issue here is I think, creating false stereotypes for short men by women who feel they *need* a negative portrayal of short men to justify their attraction to tall men. Thats like saying “Jews are baby eaters and traitors” to justify a general Jewbaiting sentiment. It CREATES bias among people who initially had no issue with short men/Jews, as they end up believing such remarks coming from so many irrational folks. Better say, “I am not attracted to short men” rather than trying to create straw men.
@ Velma
Your comment makes me think that perhaps (just perhaps) Adolf Hitler had a point, trying eugenics to breed out ‘imperfect’ people from the society.The pain or discrimination that physically unattractive/disabled people have to go throughout their lives is brutally saddening. And since we all have to die someday, what difference does dieing earlier make, so that we don’t have to go through the pain of living life as a physically ‘undesirable’ person?
By the way, pardon my misspellings (if any).
Michael 189
but no one wants to talk about how an overweight woman should be appreciated for who she is and what she brings to the table, and not for her body size?
She should just lose weight.
If I could eat plenty and not become obese, so can they.
david 190
Ok, I get it. This blog is generally pointing out how most women are initially attracted to men taller than themselves (along with many other criteria that varies from person to person). It has been very enlightening to hear both sides of the topic. I recently traveled to the Philippines to do some scuba diving and wound up meeting the most wonderful woman. Yes, she is 20 years younger, but at 30 years old, she is no kid. Unlike the USA, most Asians tend to be on the shorter, smaller side, which happens to be MY preference. What I found really interesting is a completely different attitude about the roles of men and women. Americans’ have a stereotype misconception of Asian women being submissive (my opinion). I just didn’t see that and frankly it smacks of a slave-master relationship which no marriage can survive. The woman I met is 4′-9″ and I am 5′-7″. I make her feel “safe, protected, secure, feminine”, and she makes me feel big, strong, protective, and masculine. I compliment her ego and she compliments mine. Too many women in the USA seem to have a lot of hang-ups about themselves or their roles in society. At 5′-7″ and 150 pounds, I’m also turned off with so many “supersized” American women or their attitude of entitlement. You can call me old fashioned, but I was raised thinking that a man should be able to pick his wife up and carry her over the threshold, or at least be able to pick her up without getting a hernia if she falls. I have dated big women, tall women, goofy women, nice women, smart women, bitter women, ugly women, nasty women, and could never find the right combination of personality mix that complimented me as a man. I compromised and wound up married to a beautiful woman of Peruvian decent and having two wonderful kids. Money turned out to be more important than family for her and we parted ways 3 years ago after 13 years of marriage. Some women, like some men are just shallow that way. I just hope and pray the American lifestyle I am about to introduce my Filipina fiance into doesn’t ruin the unspoiled, unpretentious character that makes her glow. In my opinion, the men vs. women attitude that seems so prevalent in this country goes back to our own stereotypes that are constantly fueled with what we pass off in this country as TV entertainment. It sure seems to be helping making all of our asses getting fatter and that is not attractive no matter how you spin it!
grayson. 191
I am 5’9” 175lbs and once dated a woman who was 5’11”, and 140lbs I had no problem picking her up and carrying her.
Meg 192
I recently had two of my friends interested in me. I went for the shorter, heavier one, because I liked his personality better. Height doesn’t always matter, it’s really about who you are and how you carry yourself.
I’ll admit that most of the other guys I’ve dated have been taller than me. Women pick taller men because it makes them feel smaller and thinner in comparison. I really liked the shorter guy, but it did make me feel a little more self conscious than I usually would.
It’s also important to women to stand on their tippy toes to kiss a guy because it feels awkward to have to stoop down to kiss him.
The bottom line is, there’s hope for the short guys. If both people are really self confident, there wont even be a problem at all.
Kaya Cassan 193
I have a uncle who is 5’5 and he is literally one of the best players of all time. It’s almost like a TV show. Women love him. I don’t even think he knows he’s short. If a man is confident and not focused on his flaws. He will attract a woman.
If he treats her like he’s not very interested. He will attract her. If he acts like he is King of the world; he will attract her. People get sidetracked by their own flaws. Pretend as if you are 6’3 and play for the NBA and the women will follow.
That’s my sermon!
- Kaya Cassan
http://www.accidentalbitch.com
grayson 194
Pretend you are 6’3″? so short guys should “act” tall? lol that’s like telling a black guy if he doesn’t want to be discriminated against he should “act” white
Kaya Cassan 195
Good response Grayson. They key is to not let the world or society tell you what you are.
A-L 196
Kaya and Grayson,
How does someone “act” short or tall?
Evan Marc Katz 197
My friend, talk show host Alan Roger Currie, sent me this link today on Facebook, confirming my thesis that life is unfair for Asian men:
http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=92328673728&h=Uzyv-&u=w3TYj&ref=mf
In case it wasn’t abundantly clear, I don’t have a bias against ANYBODY – not short men, heavy women, or older folks. I have a huge bias against fantasy.
If you disagree with facts, there’s not much room for conversation.
Karl R 198
Meg said: (#192)
“Its also important to women to stand on their tippy toes to kiss a guy because it feels awkward to have to stoop down to kiss him.”
Why should this feel awkward? I have to stoop down to kiss women all the time. If you do it enough times, it stops feeling awkward.
hunter 199
Act short, act tall, kiss short people, no room for facts, I find people humorous at times…hhhmmhh….how funny…
grayson 200
Actually I’m not the one who brought up “acting tall” the poster kaya said “pretend you are 6’3”” which i personally think is terrible advise
Julianne 201
Its sad to go with the feminine argument, but its just the truth. Our society focuses on women being thin and beautiful. If you aren’t and you are with somebody who is smaller than you, you are constantly reminded of the fact that you don’t fit the ideal. Its all about self-esteem. In my case I’m an athlete plagued by large muscles. It doesn’t make me feel feminine to know I have thicker biceps than my boyfriend. I don’t care if my guy can protect me from an attacker, I can probably do that myself. But in order to make a 5’8″ built girl forget that she sometimes feels less than feminine, a guy needs to be big and tall. I’d even take somebody well over-weight over somebody who constantly reminds me of my insecurities.
LUNA 202
Julianne,
“I’m an athlete plagued by large muscles”
Just how exactly is someone “plagued” by large muscles? Were steroids put into your mother’s breast milk? As an athlete you built those muscles up. Therefore you weren’t “plagued” by anything.
I also find it rather ironic that you mention that society focuses on women being thin and beautiful. Then you go onto to say men should be “big and tall”
condorius 203
There’s something suspicious about SUPER SHORT WOMEN dating super tall men. We’ve all had close friends, siblings, whatever in this situation and we’ve come to accept it. It’s not wrong–just unsettling.
The best analogy I can make to a 5’2 woman with a 6’4 man is a 21yo woman with a 30yo man. They can be in love, they can have lots in common, but there’s some element of trying way to hard to nab a trophy in both cases. The 5’2 woman chasing the 6’4 man needs the same advice as the 30yo man chasing the 21yo woman.
Women, what would you tell the 30yo man chasing 21yo women?
Let’s face it–what they’re doing isn’t UNETHICAL, but it’s misguided. They have created some kind of delusional hierarchy where 21yo = hot and young and fun. Would you tell the guys to “settle” for 26yo’s because they have more people to choose from? because they might miss a diamond in the rough? No, you’d tell them their hierarchy is bunk and they need to rethink things in a more mature way. They need to grow up. You’d tell them they’re NOT lowering their standards by looking at 26yo’s rather than 21yo’s, and that the quality/status/sex appeal does not correlate with age.
Tough to socially deprogram people’s delusional heirarchies though, and when you do, the people still have immature friends holding them back. Now, I will say this. Many guys will tell their 30yo buddy who chases 21yo girls “dude, what are you doing?” More than a protective instinct toward the girl, they recognize the immature try-hardness. Why don’t girlfriends ever do the same when their short girlfriend chases 6’5 dudes?
There’s a LOT to think about here, and I know I’ve really offended some people. It’s okay if you’re in a serious height disparity relationship, and it’s okay if you’re in a serious age disparity relationship. The connection can exist in either case (no really, it can). I’m not judging anyone for their partner’s height or age difference–only for a hierarchy they try to impose on age or height.
LUNA 204
a 5’2” woman chasing a 6’4” man is not really like a 30 yr old chasing a 21 yr old
It’s more like a 50 yr old chasing a 21 yr old
plus guys who are 6’4” and over aren’t exactly a dime a dozen They’re simply aren’t that many tall guys to go around
A-L 205
I was going to let the first 5’2″/6’4″ comparison go by, but after another comment I have to jump in. First off, height is nothing like age. It does not affect your cultural references, where you are in terms of life stages, how long you’re likely to have left to live, etc. Those factors are all likely to influence a relationship. Who can reach a higher shelf is not.
Secondly, just because a large height differential exists doesn’t mean that it was sought. I’ve gone out with guys in the 6’3″-6’4″ range. I’ve also gone out with guys who are 5’3″-5’4″. In those situations I went out with people who I thought seemed interesting and as though we might have potential for a relationship.
Now if someone only wants to date someone who’s more than a foot taller than them, that’s a different issue, but to say that whenever a big height differential exists that it’s akin to a 50 year old chasing 21 year olds? Please.
Michael 206
What would a 30-year-old man have in common with a 21-year-old woman?
LUNA 207
“I was going to let the first 5?2?/6?4? comparison go by, but after another comment I have to jump in. First off, height is nothing like age. It does not affect your cultural references, where you are in terms of life stages, how long youre likely to have left to live, etc. Those factors are all likely to influence a relationship. Who can reach a higher shelf is not.”
I agree height is not like age, infact height is not like weight either since weight can be changed and height cannot. The only valid comparison would be to compare height to skin color. Since these are traits that are inherited and can’t be changed.
“Secondly, just because a large height differential exists doesnt mean that it was sought. Ive gone out with guys in the 6?3?-6?4? range. Ive also gone out with guys who are 5?3?-5?4?. In those situations I went out with people who I thought seemed interesting and as though we might have potential for a relationship.”
It’s not always sought, but sometimes it is and those are the ones were are talking about.
“Now if someone only wants to date someone whos more than a foot taller than them, thats a different issue, but to say that whenever a big height differential exists that its akin to a 50 year old chasing 21 year olds? Please.”
Even though age and height are not the same per se it’s still a valid comparison because it helps demonstrate the absurdity of having such requirements.
A-L 208
Luna wrote in #204 a 5?2 woman chasing a 6?4 man is not really like a 30 yr old chasing a 21 yr old. Its more like a 50 yr old chasing a 21 yr old
Condorious wrote in #203 Theres something suspicious about SUPER SHORT WOMEN dating super tall men…The best analogy I can make to a 5?2 woman with a 6?4 man is a 21yo woman with a 30yo man.
Luna wrote in #207 Its not always sought, but sometimes it is and those are the ones were are talking about.
From yours and condorious’ posts, that was not at all clear. You both spoke of a single woman pursuing (or being in a relationship) with one particular man who happened to be tall, not about short women who seek tall men exclusively. Thank you for the clarification.
Joseph 209
People keep saying hunter and gatherer times big bulky tall me had an advantage. Is that true? If you go back in time humans were stockier and shorter. I am thinking if you were tall you were out of place in the hunter and gather times. Why do people consider height an advantage always and being a short is a disadvantage always? The truth is height is very superficial, and people start to look beyond those aspects when searching for a mate.
I am only 5’8″ I hate when people ask how tall I am. IT DOESNT MATTER.
mmike 210
Confidence is all the height you need. Online dating is a snapshot of a person but cannot convey body language, voice inflection, etc…Out on the real battle field of relationships all you need is confidence.
5 foot 6 and proud. Been bagging the tall ones and the short ones.
hunter 211
MMike, you lucky dog. I’ve done the same, only, not with frequency.
Meli 212
I’m 5″6 and I adore tall men. I don’t know exactly what it is, because as Evan said, it doesn’t give anything extra to the quality of your relationship. In fact, where I live, a country where there isn’t many tall guys, whenever you see a tall one, you can almost guarantee that is going to be a cocky prick. However, there’s something very primal in my attraction to tall guys – apart from the fact that I inmediatly notice them. All of the guys I’ve been truly attracted to were over 6″. But I think the very first commenter nailed it: it has something to do with feeling smaller next to your partner. I’m skinny but curvaceous (120 pounds but big boobs and a booty) so I feel like a giant, unfemenine amazon next to an average size man, let alone one shorter than me!
Meli 213
Oh, something else! Im just talking about me! My sister (5″6) is incredibly gorgeous and only likes average/ short man. She married a 5″8 guy and never understood my desire for “giraffes” as she calls them. Also, one of my best male friend is 5″6 and is VERY succesful with girls, and he’s not particularly pretty on the face either, lol. But he’s very funny, knows how to treat a lady, can dance really well and is very confident.
Lou Rall 214
Meli,
You say that when you see a tall man you can almost guarantee he will be a cocky prick. Yet you continue to boast about how attracted you are to them so I am confused. Are youattracted to tall men because they arecocky pricks or because you feel small next to them or is it both?
Another thing I find strange is how feel like an amazon next to an average sized man. According to CDC Statistics an average sized man in north america is 5’9.5” tall and weighs around 176 pounds. How can you feel like an amazon next to a guy who’s 3.5 inches taller then you and outweighs you by almost 60 pounds?
You’re 5’6” and 120 pounds you’re not by any means a large woman. you shouldn’t feel like an amazon next to anyone. my 12 year old niece could overpower you.
Karl R 215
Meli said: (#212)
“it has something to do with feeling smaller next to your partner. Im skinny but curvaceous (120 pounds but big boobs and a booty) so I feel like a giant, unfemenine amazon next to an average size man, let alone one shorter than me!”
If I’m understanding what you’re saying…
If you had a more realistic perception of your own appearance, and if you had the confidence to feel sexy and feminine all the time (regardless of whom you were standing near), you would be free to date men of any height.
Is that essentially correct?
Meli 216
Lou Rall: I don’t go for tall guys. I just inevitably feel attracted to them. My first boyfriends were all over 6″ because I used to live in two different countries (including the US) before moving where I live now. In those previous countries you would find a good share of tall men. Here, on the contrary, most guys are shorter and the average is not the same as in the States. On top of that, I’m wearing heels most of the time. Here, the guys I date are about my size or just a bit taller because of what I said, tall guys here tend to have it extremely easy with girls and become cocky pricks. I like a guy who knows how to treat me well, and I try to focus on the good qualities those guys have, but I do NOT feel the intense attraction for them as with tall guys – that i don’t date anymore. It’s kinda like that discussion of passion vs. comfort that we constantly have on this blog.
Karl: I think you do have a point. I mean, I still remember being embarassed by my chest when I was 13, because I was so skinny and used to be a ballerina, i suddenly felt “fat”. But honestly, I think many women feel the same, regardless of their sizes and heights, it’s just that few actually admit it. Also, as I said before, I don’t think it’s a “conscious” decision for many, it’s just a primal, inmediate attraction that, as Evan has taught us all, it may evolve quite bad some times.
Lou Rall 217
Meli,
I’m still confused, so you date short men, but you are not attracted to them,why do you date men you are not attracted to?
Then you say you don’t go for tall guys yet your first bfs were all over 6′ so which one is it?
m
Meli 218
I’m so sorry I have such difficulty explaining myself. Maybe it’s because English it’s not my first language :S
well, let me try again. I don’t go for tall guys. I don’t go for guys in general, I’m quite passive when it comes to guys and I rarely approach them. I’d rather be pursued. That doesn’t mean that I cannot feel attraction towards a guy – especially if that guy is someone I interact to because of work, or we have friends in common, etc. So, when I see or interact to a very tall guy – over 6″ – i feel physically attracted to them. In countries where guys are taller, they’re not as cocky, in my opinion. But where I live now they are, because the media here is quite short, again, in my opinion. So, after two years living / dating here I decided to date guys that I’m not THAT physically attracted to (shorter guys) but have some other qualities that I like – reliability, comfort, kindness, etc.- although, even when I’ve had relationships with these guys I recognize I’ve never felt the same level of passion or attraction with these guys than with their taller counterparts. That’s why I made the analogy of our discussion in other post of “passion vs. comfort”. When we’re talking about passion, sexual attraction, etc. tall guys just do it for me.
My first boyfriends were all over 6″ because I was younger. When you’re young – between the ages of 16 and 21- you tend to make decisions based on “he’s tall” or “she’s hot”. It’s only after you grow up a little bit that you realize how, eventually, other things are far more important.
Lou Rall 219
Meli,
lol ok, maybe it’s because i’m a guy and attraction is more visual for usi don’t know. but you sound like you are intensely attracted to tall men. Yet you date short men even though you are not attracted to them because they are comfortable, reliable, and kind. Do they have lots of money to?
Is physicalintimacyan issue then? Youhave no problem being physically intimate with someone who doesn’t do it for you? Or do you just date short men for the free meal,and have sex with tall men?
Meli 220
Hahaha that’s so funny, yet inaccurate! I’m at a stage in my life where I’m looking for a long term relationship, not bc i’m looking forward to getting married – i’m only 24- but because i’ve finally come to terms with the fact that i don’t like just fooling around..i’m a relationship kind of person. So, i’m looking for certain personality traits in a guy because of that. If i just wanted to have sex, i would do it with the tallest of the bunch. Guys i date could have lots of money or could not. I’m certainly not dating a lazy ass guy who has never worked in his entire life. But I work for an NGO – not particularly known for being incredibly generous in the salaries, LOL and a guy who works for an NGO too, having similar interests, would be ideal for me. My family is rather wealthy, so thankfully, money is not an issue for me.
Also, I definitely can have good sex with a guy I’m not THAT attracted to, as long as he is good in bed, LOL. I’m a very sexual person and luckily most of my partners have been quite good… But honestly, quoting that movie “Threesome”, ‘to me, sex is like pizza, even if it’s bad, it’s still pretty good’.
Jon 221
Interesting article and responses, I definitely understand both sides.
I’m 5’8 (I think, definitely not 5’9), asian, male, and on the nerdy side. I also grew up in the usa meaning i’m not just interested in asian women. I think this puts me at a severe disadvantage. But this is a part of life that you have to deal with. Honestly I haven’t dealt with it well but the older I get (i’m only 23) the more i accept it and try to just be positive. Because if you aren’t positive , who wants to be around you anyway? No one, and that’s whether you’re going on a date or not.
Lou Rall 222
That quote is lame,
either it’s good or it’s not good there is no such thing as “bad but pretty good”
hunter 223
Meli, sounds like you have your life in order. Congrats!
Meli 224
thanks, hunter
Amazon 225
Since nobody has pointed this out, I shall. One theory is that short men are attracted to tall women because of a subconscious fear they’ll breed midgets. The opposite is true with tall men — they’re afraid they’ll breed giants.
Although my initial reaction was to dismiss short women that exclude men under 5’10 as extremely shallow, perhaps my lack of aversion to short men can be ascribed to my own subconscious fear of breeding giants due to my height of 5’9.5 and not so much due to the exceptional enlightenment I assumed I must possess. Genes seem to really have a lot of power in influencing our preferences.
Sparky 226
There is should be no excuse for short guys to not go to the gym.
I, like many of the other women here, have issues with short guys b/c I’m afraid I won’t feel protected and safe, so even though I’m 5’1, I’ve generally dated 6’0+ guys. Needless to say, my current boyfriend is 5.65, and while his shortness intially bothered me during the early stages of the relationship, the fact that he is in such good shape (six-pack, really strong and broad upper body, decent sized bicepts and forearms) really compensated for his shortness. Being wrapped up in his muscular arms or seeing him do 20 pull ups in a row, does give me a sense of comfort and protection.
I’ve heard the same thing from other shorter guys – they have said that the best thing that works in attracting women to shorter guys on a physical level is getting really really buff.
Zain 227
“There should be no excuse for short guys to not go to the gym”
Well excuse me! but not all of us have time to go to a gym. Let me ask you something, when was the last time you did any exercise?
Working out is a great way to be healthy and it’s very good to be fit andathletic. but to do all that just so you can attract womenis just vain. I’m not going to go to a some gym just because YOU said there is no excuse why I don’t go to one. I don’t need an excuse because I don’t have to justify myself to you.
get real sister, there is more to men then just their muscles. A friend of mine was 5’5” and worked out all the time and lived off protein shakes. He was really buff and thought that he could impress women with that. However most women laughed at him because his muscles were just way too big and he looked ridiculous.
Sparky 228
You are excused… actually, I work 10 hours a day, am a part time student, and still find time to go to the gym on almost a daily basis and watch my diet so that I can stay attractive for my boyfriend. And he does the same.
I’m not saying you should look like a body builder or Arnold. Notice how I said, decent sized muscles not bulging or enormous. Neither do I prove of vanity. But physical attributes are VERY important to a lot of people, whether morally correct or not, as this thread proves – for some, height is detrimental. Obviously, you can’t go around expecting to attract people based on physical appearance alone, that’s just stupid. All I’m trying to do is give a word of advice to guys who are generally overlooked simply b/c of their height, based on my own experience and of those I know – which is, that sometimes, being visibly fit can compensate for lack of height.
So please don’t take offense at general advice, do read between the lines, and don’t take it to heart if you disagree.
Helen 229
Jon #221: You wrote: “I also grew up in the usa meaning i’m just not interested in asian women.”
As an outsider to this perspective, I don’t understand: you mean that Asian-American men are raised not to be interested in Asian women? That seems racist, even if the racism is directed at your own group. And I wouldn’t blame it onUS culture. If anything, it seems that white guys adore Asian women!Your statementalso doesn’t seem very accurate, based on all the Asian couples I’ve seen throughout schools, training, and jobs… usually Asian-American guys are dating or married to Asian women, not women of other races.
Zain 230
“You are excused… actually, I work 10 hours a day, am a part time student, and still find time to go to the gym on almost a daily basis and watch my diet so that I can stay attractive for my boyfriend. And he does the same.”
Forgive me if I find that hard to believe. I don’t know anyone who works out every single day. Infact working out everyday can do more harm then good.
“I’m not saying you should look like a body builder or Arnold. Notice how I said, decent sized muscles not bulging or enormous. Neither do I prove of vanity. But physical attributes are VERY important to a lot of people, whether morally correct or not, as this thread proves – for some, height is detrimental. Obviously, you can’t go around expecting to attract people based on physical appearance alone, that’s just stupid. All I’m trying to do is give a word of advice to guys who are generally overlooked simply b/c of their height, based on my own experience and of those I know – which is, that sometimes, being visibly fit can compensate for lack of height.”
So can money, so can intelligence, so can alot of other things. I’m not disagreeing with you I know looks are importanthowever they way you worded it made it soundlike physical looks and big muscles are allthat matters and nothing else. So if you are a short guy and you don’t have muscles nothing else you have to offer will matter. Maybe that’s not what you meant, but that’s what it sounded like. hencewhy I got angry when you said “there is no excuse why a short guy doesn’t go to the gym”Excuse me?but who died and made you god?and like I said before in regards to my friend not everyone finds a gym rat attractive. I once dated a woman who was very athletic and worked out 4 times a week (not everyday like you apparently do) Her muscles were even bigger then mine. When I asked her why she doesn’t go out with big muscular guys she sees at the gym she told me about howvain and egotisical they are and how much of a turn-off that is. I’m not saying all guys who work out are like this butsome of them are.
Sparky 231
“Forgive me if I find that hard to believe. I dont know anyone who works out every single day. Infact working out everyday can do more harm then good.”
It’s called different muscle groups.
“Im not disagreeing with you I know looks are importanthowever they way you worded it made it soundlike physical looks and big muscles are allthat matters and nothing else.”
I’m not saying that they are. Just like with money and intelligence. But they do help, just like being physically attractive helps attract more partners. I’ll use myself as an example – my bf is just a few inches taller than me, and he’s really tiny. His t-shirts are about a size bigger than mine. At this point, I don’t care. But when I first met him, I did care. Fortunately his bulkiness makes him appear a little larger so I don’t feel like I’m dating someone exactly the same size as me. And in the beginning of the relationship, when I didn’t have that much exposure to him as a person, that really helped me overcome the initial “I kind of like him but he’s really short” reaction. He looks like a normal person – maybe like Daniel Craig on a good day, not some crazy body builder or obsessed gym rat.
And since a lot of comments from the women here said that they don’t like short guys b/c they feel weird being around someone who is so small, I simply put up my message about what can help, since I’ve been there.
Zain 232
“It’s called different muscle groups”
Please don’t insult my intelligence.I know what different muscle groups are. and I know for a fact you don’t need to go to the gym every single day to look good. My ex only went 4 times a week and would rest on the weekends and I’d bet my life she is in better shape then you. So either you are lying or you are going to the gym more then you have to.
“I’m not saying that they are. Just like with money and intelligence. But they do help, just like being physically attractive helps attract more partners. I’ll use myself as an example – my bf is just a few inches taller than me, and he’s really tiny. His t-shirts are about a size bigger than mine. At this point, I don’t care. But when I first met him, I did care. Fortunately his bulkiness makes him appear a little larger so I don’t feel like I’m dating someone exactly the same size as me. And in the beginning of the relationship, when I didn’t have that much exposure to him as a person, that really helped me overcome the initial “I kind of like him but he’s really short” reaction. He looks like a normal person – maybe like Daniel Craig on a good day, not some crazy body builder or obsessed gym rat.”
I don’t think you are in any position to set the benchmark on what a “normal person” looks like. I mean no disrespect but you sound pretty vain. Looks are very importantto you Especially since you are comparing your dates to hollywood moviestars. This is quite telling.
Ok, let’s do the math here You are 5’1” He is 5’6.5” That’s a difference of 5 and a half inches which is almost half a foot. If you were the same height as him or maybe just an inch shorterI’d see where you are coming from. because he’s taller then you by almost 6 inches! It’s the equivilant of a 5’10” woman dating a man who is 6’4” and saying “oh I feel so big beside him”
My guess is that since you mostly dated 6’0” + guys for the longest time you are not comparing your own height with his you are comparing his height and size compared to the other men you’ve dated despite the fact that he is still considerably taller then you.
Robert 233
You hypocrites narrowed your search to “petite” women within X amount of miles. Pretty ironic.
Ruffy 234
Because tall men are just more attractive. I’m a skinny dude who’s 5’8 if I stand up straight, and even I can tell that a guy who is 6′+ is more attractive than a short one as long as he’s not rail thin. Heck, if I were into guys I’d want tall ones too!
I remember being at the grocery store years ago and there was this guy who was about 6’4, built, and SUPER handsome; long hair and a white button-up shirt that was unbuttoned and a white undershirt underneath. Everybody, men and women, were staring at the guy because he looked like a greek god as he unloaded his lettuce and whatnot from his cart onto the conveyor belt. I’ve envied that dude for years, as do probably most of the other men who have ever seen him.
Zain 235
Since most supermodels are tall, does that mean tall women are more attractive then shorter women?
Being tall is very attractive to women however being tall alonedoesnt alwaysautomatically make a guy more attractive then a shorter one. I’m pretty sure most women would probably find Johnny Depp more attractive then Richard Kiel.
Suzanne 236
People are so INSANE. I hate any type of discrimination. No wonder so many marriages end in divorce. When will people EVER learn that the outer shell is not the inner being. At LEAST get to know a person first before you rule them out based on their physical appearance. I’d havedated him with NO PROBLEM. Probably why I am still married after 34 years.
Napoleonic Myth 237
The idea that short men have Napoleonic complexes is a fallacy as an argument for why short men are unnattractive.
Full disclosure, I’m 5’4″.My wife is 5’6″ and loves me completely. Nothing about our heightvariation is awkward.I think my height, althoughit tiesme personally to this conversation, has caused me to be critical of some issues related toshort men. Including the belief that it is an acceptable form of bigotry because it is still seen as true; even if countless cases prove it otherwise false.
My claim for why this argument is a fallacy is pretty simple. When a short man is cocky or ‘always’ right, it’s perceived as the result of an inferiority complex. This complex is then directly related to his height. I think that with enough study you’ll discover that all men who are cocky or act as if they are always right do so because of an inferiority complex even if they are otherwise perceived as perfect specimen.
I think what people consider distinct about a short mans complex isthat he is perceived as unjustified simply because ofhis heightwhich he has no control over. This person may have a whole series of character traits that are considered a common feature of success, but, save this one factor, he is seen as less than average in society. My height has nothing to do with my abilities beyond being able to reach the top shelves in my house and we have ladders for that.
Really, many short men often have complexes, not just napoleonic in nature,because they have had to listen to people make comments or actually mock their height for almost every day of their life until college (honestly that was my experience). And yet, there really is no single reason why height should be an issue; other than,people form theperception that short men are not as good at things than others. This fear of perceptionin many situation willmotivate short men to be better than they think the world thinks they are. In the end, they want recognition for that and sometimes it comes in the form of cocky attitudes.Whether or not this account is true I think the fact that people see short men who are cocky/rude and attribute it to their height are wrong for many reasons. These attitudescould be a bundle of distinct factors unrelated to their height. Or perhaps and more likely, they have a high level of testosteroneand want to be in control as much as any other male with that amount of testosterone.In the end, the perception that it isn’t justified has nothing to do withwho they are and has more to do with the shallow perceptions of a community around them.
People want to be right all the time, and it’s not an extraodinary characteristic in short men. I’m not arguing that it’s acceptable, infact, I find it really unattractive andwork really hard to not be perceived in such a way. Yet compared to their attitude towards short men with such traits, society is more comfortable accepting a tall man with aggressive confidence. In some instances, they consider it justified. I find tall men who have aggressive levels of confidence (meaning they can be rude in their assertions of power) to be very ugly humans and I’d rather not be around them. In most cases, people around me agree. However, this became an eighties stereotype for a reason. Occasionally, it’s even on a sado-masochistic level where women stay with abusive men. Ignoring some of these extremes though, I bet if you did a similar study where you had four tests:a short man who states a set of facts that are mostly true, a short man who states a set of facts that are mostlyfalse, a tall man who states a set offacts that aremostlyfalse, and finally a tall man that states a set of facts that are mostly falsethatboth tall men would be perceived as more trustworthy than the short men as authorities on the subject. And often even in the case of the short man who tells true facts compared to the tall man. This would reveal more so that tall menare seen as a morelikely authority than a short man(a feature of perception).
I’m also curiouswhether women who have opinions about what a relationship with a short man would be like have ever actually had or entertained a real relationship with a short man.
I really do believe that many reasons for the way short men are treated are subtle forms of bigotry, and like all forms of bigotry completely unjustified.
For the short men out there, keep searching. You’ll eventually find a woman who will love you even because of your height. Any woman who can’t is probably shallow and not really worth your time.
Zain 238
Nepoleonic Myth.
The whole “neploeon syndrome” (small man syndrome nepoleon complex little bigman syndrome there are many names for it)is a myth. There are no scientific studies or medical evidence that backs up the claim that shorter men are more agressive or pushy then taller men. The same goes with taller men having larger penises. There is no evidence to support it. Alot of it is just stereotyping biasesand bigotry towards shorter men. The problem is that short men are often judged in groups where as tall men are judged as individuals. Futhermore a short man’s anger may have nothing to do with his height. Whenever a woman uses the “nepoleon syndrome” card My question is simple, If an angry 5’2” man has Nepoleon syndrome, then what syndrome does an angry 6’2” man have? Or do they believe tall mennever get angry or never have complexes?
Persephone 239
I can’t believe I sat here and read all 200+ posts on this topic. I found it very interesting though, and in the end still came away with the notion that ”you’re attracted to whomever you’re attracted to.” If I meet someone and the chemistry is there, it’s there, regardless of height. Personally, I’m 5′ 8″ with an hourglass figure (similar to Ava Gardner), and, according to most, very easy on the eyes. I’m a country girl, born and raised, and I’m about as all American as a girl can get. The number of guys willing to find this out, however, seems to be quite small, however, because, oh yeah, I’m “black.” Now, what I really am is mixed, and due to where I was raised, I get shut out when I open my mouth with the dark guys (yes, apparently a person can act “white,” whatever that means), and stonewalled for more than eye contact with all the others (look but don’t touch and definitely don’t take home to mom seems to be the trend there). My point? No complaints about height please. In the dating world height may be a limiting factor, but race, apparently, is a defining one. And in the end, it all comes back to one thing: whether it’s in our DNA or a learned behavior or a combination thereof, it doesn’t matter. You can’t control who you’re attracted to. Why don’t women want to date short men? Why don’t men want to date fat women? Why don’t rich women want to date poor men? Why doesn’t one person want to date someone else outside of their race? You might as well ask why dogs like to eat cat poop. The answer is all the same: Because. Fair? No. Logical? Hell no. Does that change the fact of the matter? Not a bit. Just my I-drank-too-much-caffeine-late-at-night-and-am-still-awake-at-4:40am opinion. : )
Persephone 240
Just to clarify so as not to ruffle any feathers, when I said no more complaints about height, I wasn’t actually saying, “Never complain about being judged for your height!” Being judged as part of a lump sum for any reason sucks. I just used the expression to convey my personal opinion that height has no more rights to “poor me” than weight, race, age, unattractiveness, six fingers, inability to recall the name of He-Man’s green tiger , or any other number of seemingly inane reasons that people are dis-included from any one person’s dating parameters. Yeah.
Sam P. 241
Zain,
It doesn’t matter if you think women are being unfair for not dating short men.People do what they want to do and unless you’re talking about a sadly-single short woman who still won’t date a short man, it’s hard to see how turning down short men is even a problem for her.
Sparky’s advice is sound. If you’re short you are going to have to compensate in other ways. Dress better than the tall guy, have a better online profile, have a better body, have a better haircut. I’m 5’7” 1/2 and I know that my height disadvantages me, but I can’t change what preferences women have. Even I am disinclined to go out with a woman under 5’2” unless she’s uncommonly smart.
Life is unfair.
Jennifer 242
So this is random but Persephone, I love your screen name. I’m a big mythology fan
Zain 243
Sam P.
“It doesn’t matter if you think women are being unfair for not dating short men.People do what they want to do and unless you’re talking about a sadly-single short woman who still won’t date a short man, it’s hard to see how turning down short men is even a problem for her”
Of course people do what theywant, That’s not the point and I never said that women who don’t date short men are “unfair” towards short men I said they were shallow. As for “sadly-single short women” What are you talking about? ,There are over 100 million singles in the U.S There is nothing sad about being single.and there is nothing sad about being short. What are you saying exactly?? that only desperate short women should date short men as if they are “scrapping the bottom of the barrell” It’s thinking like that, that really doesmake me sad. You need tostop putting women on a pedestal and get some self respect, There are plenty of despicable women of all heightsout there that are not good enough for a short man, there are women out there that short men should never give the time of day, and yes it is a problem for someone to turn down someone because of their height, because they might be missing out on somebody who is really great.
“Sparky’s advice is sound. If you’re short you are going to have to compensate in other ways. Dress better than the tall guy, have a better online profile, have a better body, have a better haircut. I’m 5’7” 1/2 and I know that my height disadvantages me, but I can’t change what preferences women have. Even I am disinclined to go out with a woman under 5’2” unless she’s uncommonly smart.”
I agree that short men need to compensate in other ways because they are disadvantaged and there are many ways he can do that, You’re only 5’7”. and don’t like short women? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, but whatever we are alll entitled to preferences.Just remember all that glitters is not gold.
“Life is unfair”
Nobody said life was fair, but nothing is “just the way it is” either. Just because life isn’y fair doesn’t mean people who are disadvantaged shouldn’t value themselves.
Diana 244
Well said, Persephone.
Joe 245
I’d like to make a suggestion to the short men on this group if I might. I’m a short man. There is incredible prejudice against the short of stature. The short say and do little or nothing about it. Short men receive the far worse end of the deal. No one is telling women who to date, as a matter of fact I never expected taller women to be interested in me even though I’m intelligent, mostly always in good shape and dress fairly well. The problem for the short man is the fact that SHORT WOMEN are very often NOT INTERESTED in dating short men even though the short man may be several inches above the short woman’s height. This is probably a result of the negative media stereotyping of short men and the seemingly endless adulation of tall men.
My suggestion to short men is to stop viewing your height as an individual trait and to view discrimination against you as exactly that – Discrimination. Discrimination against someone on account of race, color, creed, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, disability, age, even the transgendered – is viewed as Discrimination. Isn’t it time short people – who even have a denigrating and demeaning song written about them – to the exclusion of all other groups – stand up for themselves and say “Hey, I’m tired of being a victim and there’s no reason why I should stay one”? I invite all short people to visit my website. However I must warn you. I tell it like it is.
hamsterdance 246
I’m a 30 yr old, 5′ 2″ chubby female. I’ve really never cared about height. I used to want him to be at least 1″ taller than me, but I don’t even care about that anymore.
My current boyfriend is just a couple inches taller than me. He’s also bald AND grey. I don’t see any of that when I look at him. I see an incredibly attractive and sexy man. I look at the whole package. I have to say that sex is a little better and certainly easier with someone closer to my size. I have a pair of six inch heels that I wear for costumes and such. He saw a picture of me wearing them and asked me to wear them for him. Being taller than him was REALLY hot. It completely changed the dynamic.
I also don’t care about weighing more than a guy. My last boyfriend was 5’8″ and maybe 140 lbs. At the time I was close to 200. I was initially shocked at how thin he was (he had no full body pictures in his profile), but I still found him very attractive, and we had no problems in bed at all.
wanderlust76 247
I think that’s what isfrustrating to theguys. Short women don’t want to date short men they still insist on the 6 foot guys it seems. Honestly I don’t really get the whole height thing either, it’s not like weight which effects your health. If you’re average height, and he’s average height….he’ll end up being taller than you, and weigh more than you. So that takes care of that. What’s the big deal?
Kevin 248
Ughhh…I just can’t keep from commenting on stuff like this…=)
I’m 5’6″ and 135 lbs. I’m whatmost consider tiny. My shirts are allSmall or X-Smalland I wouldn’t have it any other way. Many women would never consider dating me. I can’t fight off a kitten (I’d rather cuddle with them) let alone lift 200 lbs above my head. I’m notaggressive or “take charge”and I can’t seem to grow much facial hair. I also LOVE cross-dressing and going out as a girl. Yes, it’s true and no, I’m not gay. This might make me “unmanly” in your eyes and that’s fine with me. I’m 27 and I’ve never been in a relationship. I do get lonely, but I’m coming to realize I’m the only one who can do anything about that.
Women like what they like. Men like what they like. We’re talking about the power of attraction. You can’ttalk yourself (or anyone else)into liking (or disliking)a short guy or a heavier woman, a blond or a Canadian. Attraction is not a choice. You know right away whether or not you’re physically attracted to someone you’ve just met–it’s not something youthink about.It’s instant.Similarly, once you get to know someone beyond their physical appearance, attraction can build. You’re drawn toapersonality or you’re not–it’s not something youconsciously decide. Thehard part for short guys (andeveryone else who may have dating trouble) is getting past those first few meetings where physical appearance isoften so important.
In the end it comes down to the bottom line. You can have a long list of requirements in a potential mate, but don’t complain when you can’t find anyone. You can have a negative attitude aboutyourheight/weight/hair color/skin color/etc, but don’t complain when your attitude brings few, if any, positive results.Life is unfair. There are plenty of men and women who go their entire lives withoutmarrying or even dating.If you’re unhappy with the selection of mates/jobs/friends/etc out there, you may have to rethink yourapproach. Can you afford not to? That’s the bottom line.
By the way I LOVE when tallwomen wear high heels.
You can check out my video on crossdressing here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF5Q833V9SQ
Michael 249
Heavier women can lose weight.
chris 250
I’m 24 and I’m 6’4 and girls have always liked my height. Tall girls always say I make them feel small. Shorter girls have said things to me like “after dating you other guys are going to feel short to me”. I think it’s just that girls like masculinity and being tall is masculine. So if you’re short you have to find ways to show women that you are masculine. Lifting weights will definitely help you look more masculine and feel more masculine. More importantly than that is your “swagger”. Be confident and make no excuses about your height. Convince them that you’re a take charge man that no one can take lightly and they won’t notice your height. If you can do that while still being fun and lighthearted then women will be saying “I love you” before you’re ready for it.
Scott 251
I am a 5’7” male and was never thought twice about my height until I read some of the statistics and commentary (i.e. on this thread) about online dating. It is amazing how men get vilified about being shallow while women judge men based on factors that are completely out of their control. This thread is convincing me to not even enter the online dating world and to focus on meeting women the old fashioned way.. in person… where women are less likely to be so superficial.
A Reader 252
And although you can feel free to substitute older women, older men, heavier women, or Asian men, I honestly feel that nobody gets a rawer deal than short guys.
Honestly, ladiesYou can get your own dishes from the top shelf. You dont really need to feel “protected” from the dangers of suburbia. And why in Gods name is it important to stand on your tiptoes to kiss a guy?
So how about it, women? Is there any legitimate reason not to go out with this amazing, amazing man?
**************************************************
Um, dude, I’ve read this blog enough to know what you would say to any woman who complained about the way men are. You can’t change men. Suck it up and deal. So, for you and this short guy, the same. Suck it up and deal. Find someone who likes short men.
Not so much fun to hear your advice directed back at you, is it?
Michael 253
And although you can feel free to substituteolder women, older men, heavier women, or Asian men, I honestly feel that nobody gets a rawer deal than short guys.
Heavier women can lose weight.
Short men can not gain height.
This ought to be repeated until the ladies get this inside their thick heads.
wanderlust 254
Michael I agree they seem to conveniently forget that point. Weight control is simple mathematics calories in and calories out, height is something you are born with like your hair or eye color.
There is no fat gene it’s a myth. The reasons sons and daughters are usually fat like their parents is because they are taught the same unhealthy eating habits. I know this from personal experience. Only something like 1 percent of the population have a medical excuse for being overweight.
bdsista 255
EMK, I get the study re: Asian men, but the use of a racial group in an example of short men kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I am African American and first the study refers to Asian men and White women. So are only relationships with White women the ones that we look at in terms of creating a standard? So if a WW doesn’t want an Asian man, then he has an issue? My ex husband was Blasian, Black and Japanese, about my height and attractive. I won’t go into why we didn’t work, but there were other issues, perhaps a 10 yr age gap included. But when I went to San Francisco for an Immigration Law conference, I was approached by a couple of very tall Asians. Mostly Korean. My girlfriend is married to a Chinese guy who is over 6 ft tall. So I would not be inclined to generalize about Asian men, when in fact a lot of Asian men, particularly on the west coast who are 4th generation and on are actually pretty tall. Asians also include Indians and Pakistani’s who are usually 5’7 and up on average.
I will say that I was disturbed that the litmus test seemed to be if the person was in a relationship with WW. I would hope that you are soliciting the business of Black women who are looking for mates as well. If you can get the single Black women aged 30-55 married, you can change demographics and statistics.
As for the short man thing, I am about 5’6″ and I will date a guy who is confident and somewhat built larger than I. i.e. a heavy strong guy. I am pretty curvy and am a bellydancer and believe me, nothing is as bad as the time in college when I hugged the guy I was dating who was real thin, but the same height, and he fell against the wall with a “thud”. Yeah real sexy and I felt oh SO feminine. After that I just couldn’t get jazzed about him. I felt like the hulk around him. You can be short, but you gotta be strong!
A Reader 256
@ Michael and Wanderlust. So what? People don’t choose to get older and there ain’t nothing they can do about that. But when 40+ women complain that men their age chase after younger women, they don’t get any sympathy either. So, again, short guys, suck it up and deal, just like women have to.
wanderlust 257
A Reader - Well since I’m a guyin my 30′s I’m kind of sick of 40+ guys going after younger women too so I’m not going to argue with you on that onelol. It’s hard enough as it is to compete with all the young bucks that go after older women now.I don’t think it’s too odd for a woman to want a guy that is at least a tad taller than herbut I estimatewhat men think is ridiculous is when they narrow it down to an exact number of inches. I mean seriously cmon.Also if the woman is only 5’2″” there’s no reason she needs a guy over 6′. A guy that is 5’8” will still be taller than her, even if she has heels on.
Valerie 258
While online dating may work for some, 10 years of on/off trying was a bust — either zero in-person chemistry, or a handful of short-term relationships with men who eventually revealed serious personality issues (anger issues, chilling sociopath, closeted gay, etc.). And now that I’m 44, the online thing works against me — in person men guess me about 28-33, then by the time we tell our ages they don’t care — but online,you’re forced to lead with the on-paper negatives (and short men, just try being a woman over 40 in LA, regardless of looks or personality).Similarly, you have the benefit of personality, charm and conversation to overcome shortness; online you’re eliminated with a search-parameter checkbox before you even get a shot.
Funny, but by my mid-30s I started not having a problem with dating guys shorter than 6′. I’m now dating a man who’s around the same height as me (he’s about 5’6″-5’7″). And while there’s a little bit of lean-down when kissing him in heels (mine, not his), the personality fit and chemistry are so spectacular, I couldn’t care less. …And by the way, I met him sitting at the next table at my coffee house. We were both sitting, and after a 20-minute conversation I was too hooked to care about the short thing once he stood up.
Online only works for those who fit within the narrow Desired Parameters. The rest of us have gotta get out there and charm their pants off in person.
Lady Nemesis 259
First of all the artivle never described the demographic of women that were doing the rejecting of the short guy. Were any of them 4’11” Asian chicks? I think that it has more to do with the pool of women he wants to choose from. I would definatly go for a guy who was 5’3” who was a famous book author. Because if he was confident and suave — when you’re in bed your both the same height!
Now, if Mr.5’3” wants to marry me, I’d love to meet him. I’m 5’9” 250 pounds and hot.
So really these guys are diggin thier own graves because they won’t let go of their dream to marry a Heidi Klum.
There are PLENTY of women who would be interested in him. And would be a very good and faithful, sweet wife that cooks and lets him be a man.
I mean all he has to do is carry a gun at all times and know how ot use it I I would be proud as hell to walk down the street with me shortie!
No sympathy given.
katie 260
HOWEVER, i do find that i go for tall guys more often than short guys. i am 5’5. my ex was 6’2, and my chinese bf is 5’10, which is still kind of tall for an asian guy. i admit that i have been attracted, on occasion, to a short guy (often asian, as i tend to have a thing for asian guys), but it did feel slightly awkward and i think the short guys didn’t want to date me as much for fear of looking “little” next to me. a lot of them go for impossibly tiny women who are usually 5 feet or below, and 100 lbs or below.
that said, i’m definitely not plus-sized, but i do have a 50′s-style hourglass figure. i think this exacerbates things, as i think a lot of short and skinny men feel intimidated by my curvaceousness (chinese bf who is very slender is an exception).
i agree with the person above who said that african-american men (and also hispanic men) seem to be on the whole, more attracted to ladies who aren’t stick-thin. this is a broad generalization, of course, but it does seem that a lot of white and asian guys have a special preference for small and skinny. guys, what do you say?
Tony 261
Have you ever seen Dennis Kucinich with his wife?
wes 262
persephone,
you would be right if people who used height as a disqualifier for dating were met with the same reproach as people who would use those protected statuses in the same manner. they aren’t. heightism is the last acceptable form of bigotry, and it remains strong.
wes 263
lady nemesis,
I too dated a woman 250 pounds. she was all of 5’3″.
no sympathy for you either.
Matthew 264
I'm fifty, and five foot two (on a good day!) and haven't been in a relationship for years, and no prospects. In the US, no one would date me. Now I am living in Thailand, and don't have much better luck, though unlike myself, all my (taller) western friends have quite a pick of women interested in them. Generally, my experience here is that women either are honest and openly reject me, or are not honest and try to get money out of me by convincing me they like me and ripping me off. It's just the way things are. The one advantage of living in Thailand is that there are a lot of cheap massage parlors. Its ironic that I cannot find someone who would like to go out with me (and believe, I'm not picky about looks knowing how much women like me), but for thirty or forty dollars I can have sex with a stunning 19 year old any day of the week.
prince 265
I am Asian and i have dated more than 15 white girls … I am not even tall- and of course i am not rich or with any magical power. I guess i am just ok for a human.
tommy 266
I too am asian and short… im 23 and have never been in a relationship… sadly. But in saying that it doesn’t bother me, and i’m not really in a rush to be in one either.
I must admit i have it hard when it comes to attracting girls… being short sucks, yes it has some advantages, but overall it just sucks. I never let it get to my head though because i know for a fact that you can’t live a fun, fulfilling, happy life if your really insecure about yourself.
Being asian doesn’t help either, but in no way am i saying that i’m not proud of being asian. It just sucks when it comes to attracting the girls i like (which are white girls), but not just any white girls. I have high standards and i’m really picky when it comes to choosing a mate. I like blondes, pretty blondes, with sexy curvy bodies… they just turn me on. Brunettes are hot too!
So it’s easy to see here that my pool of finding a mate is very very shallow… not just because im short and asian, but because of my own personal likes and dislikes. But that’s life i guess… as the saying goes “people want what they want”…
All in all it doesn’t stop me from living the life i want… in fact im happy with my life as it is now. I have a stable job (which is going to lead me into a fantastic career), i have fun loving friends and family, i have sports and hobbies that i incredibly enjoy.
In the end i guess i will eventually come across a girl who’s attracted to me just as much as i am attracted to her.
Christie Hartman 267
This is a great post because it brings up a key issue – what attracts people initially versus what makes them happy over the long term. Women are attracted to tall, high-status men just like men are attracted to young, beautiful women. Yet, somehow, people who are short, poor, fat, older, or plain manage to find love. Tall or young is nice to look at, but it doesn’t love you and take care of you.
Kristin 268
I absolutely love this post! I realize that it is over three years old, but the information is still just as valuable.
I am a small-medium size woman who is 5’4″ with a relatively small bone structure; in other words, I’m on the petite side, which also includes my chest. (I include this bit of information because I think that having a less than C-cup is one of the biggest hurdles that women of my size have to overcome since almost all men seem to want larger sized breasts.) Luckily, I am somewhat pretty (symmetrical) and have a favorable waist-to-hip ratio. I mention all of my physical factors because I realize that — no matter what most people *say* — physical attraction is the most important factor when people are deciding who to date.
I am now in my late thirties and am taking stock of my romantic life. I’ve had relationships with men of a variety of sizes — from 5’4″ to 6’3″. I felt the most comfortable with the man who was the most comfortable about himself (he was about 5’9″ or so) because he was always complimentary and didn’t have any issues about my body. On the other hand, the 6’0″ thickly muscled guy wished I was “meatier” (bigger boobs) and the thinly built 5’4″ and 6’3″ guys worried about me gaining weight even though I have never fluctuated beyond 10lbs of my base weight in my entire life.
Out of all of those men, the 6’0″ muscular guy was the most “desirable” in terms of what most women say they want in a man and also judging by the way women responded to him. Trouble was, he knew he was “desirable,” took me for granted, flirted with other women and eventually started having affairs. Since that relationship, I’ve been casually watching men and here are some of my observational hunches that I’ve come up with.
Tall guys seem more confident and more likely to talk to women — but that also goes for attached guys. I’ve paid attention to men who are with other women who try to catch your eye and, overwhelmingly, they are taller men. Now I realize that my “study” was not scientific, but I have wondered if taller men realize their relative desirability and then act accordingly.
On the other hand, I have seen fewer shorter men acting like this with their partners. This has led me to try to find attractive, single, shorter men to date, but guess what? I’ve had a difficult time finding men in my age group that fit in this category. I also wonder if shorter men are more likely to stay married — and even to work harder in a marriage because of that whole idea of competition that I mentioned earlier. If it is not easy to find a mate in the first place, it makes sense that a short man might work harder at keeping the relationship he has.
Other issues that were mentioned:
-Baldness. Oftentimes the men with the best looking heads are the ones who go bald. Since baldness is related to having higher DHT, a byproduct of testosterone, levels, it would make sense that bald men might be more masculine. What woman wouldn’t like that?
-Asian. I love Asian men. Really. I still want to date an attractive man, but this isn’t a problem because there are plenty of attractive Asian men to date. However, in the San Francisco Bay where I live, most Asian men prefer to Asian women — as do many white, black and Hispanic men.
-Fat. Having a little extra cushion is one thing and being downright fat is another. Usually the larger your frame is, the more you can get away with. However, you should be thinking about what you would want in a partner. If you wouldn’t want someone who wasn’t in shape, you should set the same standard for yourself.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I wished I would have given more consideration to the short/bald/Asian/fat guys in my younger days. Now I am very open-minded, but currently there are precious few choices and I’m not getting any younger.
Best of luck to the rest of you on your journey!
starthrower68 269
Kristin,
I’ve come to the conclusion that there are awfully lot of single people out there who are all ruling each other out; ergo, there are still an awful lot of single people out there. Since there is no changing what people are initially attracted too, what are ya gonna do? It is an interesting study in the human condition, no?
Blog Moderator 270
@starthrower68 – Evan’s new post on Sunday will be addressing this. Check back tomorrow!
Kristin 271
Starthrower68,
I completely agree with your conclusion that there are an awful lot of single people out there who are ruling each other out. It seems like a shame. I partially attribute that phenomenon to the influence of media, which is almost unavoidable. Believe it or not, one of the first things I look for on a guy’s dating profile is his television preferences list. If he indicates that that he is an avid television viewer, he’s dead in the water for me. Not only do I disrespect someone who chooses passive forms of mental stimulation, I also know that he is constantly saturated with unrealistic images of people. Therefore, he will likely have expectations of idealized beauty and youth, so why even go there? I have the same policy for regular porn consumers.
On the other hand, reading is very sexy. It shows that someone has an imagination, which to me is an important factor in helping people stay in love in a long-term relationship.
So… where are all of you short, bookish men hiding?
starthrower68 272
@Blog Moderator,
I await Evan’s upcoming post with great interest.
@Kristin,
I think the majority do not look so deep to decide if he/she wants to get to know someone. I have seen profiles from men where they don’t care about any other trait than body type. I’m sure there are women out there who do the same thing, but since I’m not looking for women, I have no examples. A woman can have a lovely face, a dynamic and interesting profile but if she is not “slim, slender, or athletic” she evidently has no value a a person. Unless you go to one of the BBW niche sites, and then it’s still based on a superficial trait and one doesn’t know if there’s true interest in the person or its the result of some sick fetish.
Don’t get me wrong; it is what it is and you can’t change human nature. It’s all just very interesting to me because I enjoy studying people and like to have discussions about human nature even more, lol!
Kenley 273
Starthrower,
Are you saying that if a man has a preference for women who aren’t slim and athletic, he has a sick fetish? Why do you think that?
starthrower68 274
Kenley,
No, that’s not quite what I’m saying. Let me see if I can clarify. I know that not all men prefer thin/slim/slender women. But, given how we are socialized to view body type, I’ve seen plenty instances where I think it is an unhealthy interest. Yes, I do realize those type exist on any dating site. But in this day and age, a woman who is a size 12 or 14 is considered to be to zaftig to be dateable, when really, those are the women are probably the majority of the women out there. I don’t know if what I said makes sense or not, but I’ll try to clarify further if necessary.
Selena 275
@Starthrower
A plus size friend of mine told me of men who like big, beautiful women it’s because usually big women have big breasts. Not sure if that fits the definition of “fetish”.
Joe 276
Guys specify “slim, slender or athletic” because of weight-descriptor creep. Maybe it’s just that the average American is overweight, but women who describe themselves as “average” range from actual average, to what we kindly call “pleasantly plump.” Sure, there’s some overlap and subjectivity in descriptors, but if you have more than one chin, let’s be honest–you’re overweight.
Most guys like curves, but the “curvy” descriptor has been co-opted by women who are certainly…curvy…but to be attractive, some curves are supposed to be convex, and some are supposed to be concave. If all of your curves are convex, you’re not just curvy–you’re fat. If you are truly curvaceous, and you use “curvy” as your descriptor, you’re likely to be filtered out by guys who are tired of the lies and do the “slim, slender or athletic” thing.
But hey, I’m sure guys do the same thing with their own profiles.
Kenley 277
Starthrower,
What did these guys do that you considered unhealthy? Were they too focused on sex? If so, isn’t that what plenty of thin women complain about as well?
Marsvulcan 278
This post is a great eye opener. Unfortunately, igonorance is a great way to weed out people from the gene pool. Some of the best candidates that could ensure good genetic potential in offspring (along with the ability to provide and protect) are being overlooked due to ignorance.
If a woman “overlooks” me because of my height then no big loss. I just get another one that is not as stupid. I know I’m one hell of a catch and I have no shortage of hot women in my life. If I encounter a woman with a height issue she comes across like an idiot to me and I immediately lose interest. It’s too contrived and non-spontaneous. I would hate having sex with a pre-progammed robot. I bet these women have a “stock” set of positions and sexual acts thet they never deviate from, lol.
Here’s what I offer. I’m 5′ 9″, I work out every day and I can squat 800 lbs of dead weight like if it was nothing. I can have sex for hours at a time and I am fit. I am a healthcare professional in private practice, I’m a musician in a touring rock band and I am a martial arts/self-defense instructor that teaches privately.
Give me a break. I have never felt inferior to any taller man. Why should I. I lead a life few men get to live. I measure men by their character and accomplishment. I have peers, people who I consider my equals. Some are shorter, some are taller. That is reality. Can you cut it in life and be an alpha male who leads or dominates or not. Height is not too relevant.
Many of the toughest individuals I have ever known were under 5′ 7″. Including many of my instructors. Guys who woud regularly “wipe the floor” with guys over 6′ tall. Bruce Lee was 5′ 7″. One of the founders of Tae Kwon Do, General Hong Hi Choi was 5′ 5″. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu master and champion Rickson Gracie is 5’9″. Audie Murphy, the most decorated soldier in World War II was 5″ 5″. He received 33 U.S. medals (including the Congressional Medal of Honor), a medal from France and one from Belgium.
I’m 45 but I look like I’m 28. In my life I have had relationships with stunning women and average looking women. I have had sex with gorgeous, average and less than average looking women. The best sex I have ever had was with the average to less than average looking women. Only one gorgeous woman I was with was good in bed. Most of the really good looking women just kind of “laid” there, as if they their looks was all that was necessary.
Looks, height and weight are relative. The best sex I ever had was with a beautiful woman (she had a gorgeous face and perfect skin) that would be considered downright “fat” by most. She was the most unbelievably intense, passionate, open and vulnerable lover I have eve had. To this day I still get erections thinking about her. On the other hand, the Pamela Anderson look alike I used to live with made sex feel like going to Mc Donalds. Yeah you’re hungry so you’ll eat, but you’ve had it before and is all the same. Nothing special. Nothing inspiring.
Also, for those who posted about height and penis size. A far as penis size and proportion to height go-there is no correlation. Porn star Ron Jeremy is a good example. He is 5’6″ and has a 10″ penis. Google his images if you’ve never seen his huge schlong.
If someone doesn’t like you because of your height, screw em. They just did you a favor. If you’re a good catch and they did not choose you then they did nature a favor. They were obviously not wired for mating with a highly sucessful candidate. Don’t worry someone else will. The best part is that if you are a good candidate and a good female candidate mates with you then you will have highly intelligent and sucessful children. Then in a few years the children of that woman that did not find you suitable can work for your children.
I know that some will say that there are good candidates that are tall. I agree. But the problem is that these women are not screening based on good candidate. They’re screening based on “height.” Let’s face it the “cream” of humanity is a small group. Most people are cattle. I know I sound harsh but it is a fact. Few are leaders and innovators. Maybe this is why height is so important to some. Bigger cattle for bigger mundane jobs. Afterall, height is irrelevant to being a physician, engineer or nuclear physicist. It is crucial to being a construction worker or loading dock worker. There are more average workers in society than leaders/innovators. Maybe this is nature’s way of assuring that there are enough drones.
So, that’s my “two cents worth.”
starthrower68 279
Marsvulcan,
Women are just as guilty of being supeficial as men – and not all men or all women are. But since human nature is what it is and we can’t change it, I just come here for the interesting discussions and study of the human condition. I find I’m much better at being the “Greek Chorus” than I am an actual dater.
Marsvulcan 280
@Starthrower
Granted…. Regardless, human nature includes mundanity for the majority and excellence for the very few. Genetic “selectivity” includes that the “drone” population select and reproduce at greater rates and with higher frequency than the elites. Their mating requirements are quite uniform. They have to be. If not natural selection fails for said population.
I say wonderful! Let’s not try to “change” human nature. Let’s just make sure people know what’s really going on.
starthrower68 281
It occured to me that Evan urges women to be open on compromise on some things that we think we have to have in order to find love, and I believe that’s the right approach. However, if one is happy enough on their own, then that is also a viable option. I’m not disputing that we all want to find the love of our life and live happily ever after. But, knowing we can’t change human nature, and what people are attracted to, one has to give careful consideration about wanting to jump through the hoops, so to speak. Some will, some won’t.
ShyGuy 2010 282
I’m a caucasian male, 22 years of age, with a slender build but a small 5’2 in height.
Unfortunately i’m aware that the majority of women are attracted to big, manly men around 6 foot, thus making myself somewhat undesireable.
I’ve put up with some horrific bullying during my school years, and i’ve never had the pleasure of experiencing a serious, physical relationship as I just don’t have the confidence to initiate conversations with any girls.
After leaving school my confidence fell big time and it’s been so bad that i’ve been unable to leave the house a number of times, and even contemplated suicide.
Alot of my life, especially my teen years, have been utter misery for me. Whenever I saw all my taller peers in relationships and it made me sick to my stomach because deep down I want to be loved and accepted so badly.
So, having realised things probably wouldn’t get any better as they were, I decided to take a somewhat drastic step in undergoing some leg-lengthening surgery. Having found a reputable surgeon, I was assured I would be able to gain anywhere between 4-6 in height. I just think it’s so sad that it has come to this. The that fact that I feel i’m not allowed to like myself for who I am, that I have to change just to make other people accept me.
I’m aware that i’ll be facing a very gruelling and painful year ahead but if I stay strong and keep focused on the final outcome, I hope I will have made a positive, life changing decision.
To all those people who constantly put short men down (you know who you are), we DO have emotions and feelings despite what you think, and just because we lack a few inches does NOT make us any less of a man.
Finally to clear a couple of things up;
1. Labelling short men with having “Napoleon Complex” or “Short Man Syndrome” whenever we lose our temper is highly insulting. Although i’m a quiet person myself, we will still have the need to express our emotions as much as anyone else. Heaven forbid if I ever see a tall person lose his rag, I will be very inclined to say “oh look, that guy has Tall Man Syndrome”. It can go both ways.
2. Height has absolutely NOTHING to do with the size of a mans package. I’m proof of this, mine being just short of 7 inches. Sometimes i’m thankful as it will be somewhat of a nice gift for the girl that is able to love me for who I am, should I ever find her.
Sam P. 283
ShyGuy,
I understand where you are coming from and really feel for you. Best of luck with the surgery and everything else. Let no person with typical features ever condemn cosmetic surgery. Cosmetic surgery helps people.
Incidentally, the “Napoleon Complex” is itself a really misconceived concept. Napoleon was 5’6”-7”, average height for the time. The idea that Napoleon was short came from British propaganda, the fact that Napoleon was often seen with very tall Imperial Guards, and an incorrect conversion of French feet (pieds de roi) into the English feet that we Americans use.
The “Napoleon Complex” was coined by Alfred Adler, who apparently didn’t know that many details of history.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/theory-of-napoleon-complex-is-debunked-442338.html
Jennifer 284
#282- I’m not against cosmetic surgery but there is something I wonder if you’ve considered- say that you gain4 inches, which will put you at 5’6″. That is still largely considered short for a man- if your dating prospects don’t skyrocket after your surgery, will you feel bad/angry/sorry you went through the pain? Given your mental state, you don’t want to do something that will push you over the edge.
I understand that you have to do what you have to do. But please consider all of the possible outcomes here. And consider that there are women out there that will have no problem dating a 5’2″ guy that has other qualities that are more important to her than height- just because you haven’t run across her yet doesn’t mean she doesn’t exist.
Chrissie Lynne 285
Hi, I’m Chrissie. I’m 5 foot 8 inches tall and 24 years old. I’m engaged to a 31 year old man who is also 5’8. I know that most people are posting about extreme height differences but I thought I would weigh in on the conversation to possibly help others not feel alone! I am quite tall for a female but I am a perfect weight for my height. I’m not so skinny that I’m unhealthy, but I am definitely NOT overweight. I weigh 130 pounds, C cup, size 4 pants etc. I do not intend for this to sound arrogant, it’s mainly to make a point. I have ALWAYS been drawn to men much taller than me and never SERIOUSLY thought twice about someone shorter. There were some occasions in which I’d date a shorter guy, but it was always a big issue and they were always *unintentionally* treated with a little less “respect”. My current situation with my fiance has been a huge area for growth. I was crazy about him when we first met, but as time went on, I began to feel insecure about our heights. I know he wasn’t shoter, but like many other women have stated, I didn’t feel petite, feminine, or sexy. I felt really tall and insecure, and hunched over. This eventually led to me not respecting him, comparing him to other men, considering him weak, incapable etc. It’s been horrible, the weight of this issue has been tormenting me everyday! However, we are getting married next month, and I am learning to overlook my own insecurities and superficial things, and see him for the amazing man that he is. I know that in 50 years, when we are both in wheelchairs, his height won’t matter. He is so wonderful to me and we are so perfect for one another in all aspects but height. However, if it weren’t for the standards and expectations reinforced in my mind through society, I wouldn’t think I needed to be with a taller man. I know many girls who spend their lives in relationships with tall men who treat them horribly, because they can’t think outside of social norms. I highly suggest reading a book called “Marry Him”. I don’t know who the author is, but it’s wonderful. Especially one of the last chapters in which the author explains the decision she made to marry a shorter man. I would love to write more, but my wonderful fiance just got home and probably wouldn’t appreciate me being on this thread!!! I’ll check back to hopefully encourage other women in my situaiton!
Chrissie
Susan 286
Gentlemen, sometimes your attitude can make people not notice whatever height you are.
Let me start by saying that I am 5′ 10″.
When I was in ROTC, there was one cadet who was a total jerk to me. I immediately put it down to his being about 4-6 inches shorter than I was (I never got close enough to him to judge the specific difference), and dismissed him. But it wasn’t until our regimental dine in/dance, and I was asked out onto the floor by a friend of mine, that I realized that he was just about the same height as the jerk! I was absolutely shocked to find myself staring down at the top of his head! The difference? My friend was a terrific guy who didn’t have a chip on his shoulder.
That being said, I do understand that it can be really hard for shorter guys. Yes, I liked to date taller men – but, what tall men give women can also be given by a confident shorter man. A man who knows how to appreciate, compliment & cherish a woman will make her feel as dainty & protected (Yes, this is the atavistic key to height choices in dating) as any giant will just by standing next to her. And how do I know this? My husband is about 1/2 an inch shorter than I am. And no one notices it until I get right up on top of him, or tell them, outright.
ShyGuy 2010 287
Sam. P, thanks for the support as well as the enlightening info about the Napoleon Complex.
Jennifer, I have considered every single outcome possible to the surgery. I’d be quite the fool to jump head first into such a procedure without giving it some very serious thought.
I know 5’6″ is still on the short side, and i’m not going to delude myself in thinking i’ll automatically become a chick magnet with a few extra inches, but to be able to tell myself that i’m above the average height for women, will be a great feeling. At least then I won’t feel so much like a freak. I’d be in better company too, being nearer celebrities like Tom Cruise, Richard Hammond etc, it’s certainly very lonely being amongst the shortest of guys right now, and can sometimes be embarrassing.
If the surgery was successful, I guess it probably would increase my dating pool, if just a little. I’m aware there are a number of women that like their men to be nearer to them in height and it’s them that give me hope for finding the genuine, fulfilling relationship which I seek. I’m also thankful in that regard for being the person that I am mentally. I feel I have a lot to give to the right girl, the problem is getting the chances to prove myself, which unfortunately I don’t seem to get unlike my taller friends.
The idea of nothing positive changing after the surgery does scare me. I don’t want to be known as “the little guy” for the rest of my life. That’s why I hold onto the hope that gaining these 4 inches, plus maybe an extra inch or two with a good pair of shoes will lift me enough out of the small territory and into a more average, and somewhat normal height.
I also feel that if i’m having so much trouble accepting myself now then the problem will only going to get worse as I get older, which is why I feel I have to go ahead with the surgery sooner rather than later. I have so many ambitions which are very much out of reach at the moment due to my bad confidence.
I’ll stop here for now, my head feels like it’s going to burst.
I’m seeing a specialist tomorrow to learn more about the procedure and to get my questions answered. Hopefully it will help me to make a more confident decision. I’ll keep you guys posted if/when things start getting underway.
Margaret 288
I have gone out with and liked guys who are shorter than me, but I’m far more likely to accept a date from a short guy in person than a short guy online. The problem with online dating is that it makes people flat. I tend to be more picky with online profiles than I am with a real guy talking to me. And yes, if I met a confident, funny, attractive, attentive, kind man who’s 5″2′, I would definitely consider him husband material.
Jennifer 289
Shyguy 2010,
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the very very best of luck and much happiness.
Sayanta 290
Shyguy-
I really feel for you- I’m a tall woman, so I can’t relate to your specific situation, but my confidence has been low in many other ways at different points in my life for various reasons.
Like everyone said, the choice is yours. But…have you seen a therapist or counselor to discuss your emotional pain? Because- I don’t want to sound condescending here, and I really hope it doesn’t come across that way- physical issues that are resolved don’t do much necessarily to boost confidence (which you’ll need to date) if you’re in severe emotional distress.
It pains me to hear you speak of your height as a deformity- many short men I know (one who’s 4’11!) lead happy lives as husbands and fathers. This makes me think that the problem is going beyond your height to your emotional and mental scars. Maybe you should focus on healing those before taking a measure this drastic. Just my 2 cents.
ShyGuy 2010 291
Thanks, Jennifer
Sayanta, I have had a number of counselling sessions with several different people but unfortunately none of them have been able to provide ways of coping that I haven’t already tried yet. I don’t blame them though, I just feel that i’ve gotten beyond the point of healing now.
In regards to the surgery, the clinical nurse that I spoke to yesterday reassured me that i’m going to be well looked after prior to and following the procedures. They seem to have thought out everything right down to the last details so I have a lot of confidence in the team.
The next step for me now is to decide whether this is what I really want, and they’ll get to work as soon as i’m ready. Needless to say, I have a lot of thinking to do. I am fortunate that I have very supportive parents so it’s nice to know i’m not going into this alone.
A-L 292
Shyguy,
Best of luck with your decision, whatever it ends up being. I also highly recommend continued counseling, both before any surgery and after if you decide to have the procedure.
And just to let you know, the American gymnast Blaine Wilson is 5’3″. And his first wife? A 6’2″ volleyball player. So as others have said, having a good self-esteem and air of confidence will go a long way towards attracting a woman.
jack 293
I’m 5’6″.
It is regrettable that so many women have this emotional handicap that makes them unable to be attracted to men that are still 5″ taller than them (5-2 girl, 5-7 guy).
Maturity and time can eventually cure this defect, but not all of them want to be cured.
Very, very hot girls can get everything they want including height, but most girls are average and will need to compromise on more important things in order to “buy” the height they desire.
Unless the girl is quite hot, she’s going to have to settle on a lot of other attributes since there are a limited number of guys that tall.
If they can eventually recover from this obsession with height, they might make a good wife.
Many of these girls will end up never finding a man for marriage, but if they would rather remain single forever than marry a guy who is “only” three inches taller than they are, I fully support their decision.
I would actually more admire a girl who is willing to be a spinster than a girl who chokes it down and settles for a guy who does not thrill them in all of the ways she finds critical.
I got over my need for a girl with perfect legs and flawless skin by the time I turned 20. I wish these women the same success in overcoming the emotional anchor of height obsession.
Jennifer 294
I am married to a guy who is 5’6″ and I am 5’7″. He weighs 160 and I weigh 130. All the men I had dated before him were over 6 feet. Do I wish my husband were taller? Sure, because that’s what I like, but other than the height he is perfect for me.
I wonder if the height preference is an American thing. The President of France, Sarkozy, is the same height as my husband and both of his wives, who are gorgeous, are several inches taller. In France and Spain I often saw women with men shorter than they were and it did not seem to bother them.
Jack @ I Love Your Accent 295
To be fair though, Sarkozy has a lot more going for him than the average short guy. Let’s just say if he was washing dishes somewhere those two young ladies may not have given him a second look
Alicia 296
I’m a professional 5’10 woman with a curvy/athletic body. I have never, ever had issues with my height or dating a man shorter than I am. I’ve even dated a sweet guy that was 5’5. I tend to select people I date or hang out with based on common interests and chemistry, not height, weight, race, background etc. (boy you should see how diverse my circle is lol!)
My fiance is the same height as I am but if I had to pick, I would prefer to me with a man around my height (2 inches shorter – 2 inches taller). IMO sex positions are much better when you’re near equal heights and no one has to strain their head to kiss.
Good luck to everyone!
Jackie 297
Hi,
I have a story about a short man that I finally dated. He had been after me for 3 years to go out with him. I had been in two short term (5months or so), relationships during this time and had moved farther away from him due to my job. But I would occasionally give him a call when I was in town and we’d get together for a beer or something. I always thought of him as a friend I could trust. I like having platonic male friends.
So three years after we met, I moved near him and I started seeing him more often. It came to where he was pressuring me to tell him why I wouldn’t date him. I finally told him that he was shorter than me and it made me feel big and gawky. He then said, “you mean if I was 6 inches taller, you’d date me?” This made me feel shallow and after about two months of platonic dating, I decided to go for it.
Now it’s 2-1/2 years later. I actually fell in love. He, on the other hand, recently dumped me. He was rude, arrogant, selfish and told me he would never marry me. He couldn’t handle that I had emotions. Not excessive, but he hadn’t the slightest clue about the differences between men and women. He new absolutely nothing about women.
He is 56 and I am 54. There’s a better reason for not getting interested in short men. It’s commonly referred to as Napoleon Syndrome. And this guy had it in spades.
I am now not interested in finding anyone. I do, however, want to learn what I have never understood. Why is it that men get so awful? It seems women can love and lose and love again. Whereas men just love once, lose and use anyone after. It makes me sick.
Jackie 298
Another thing, men generally think they are more attractive, smarter, and more desirable than they truly are, hence, the short man generally feels more desirable then he is. What’s wrong with picking someone your own size anyway? Why would a short man want to be towered over by a woman to begin with? Women want to feel that if she can be protected by her man. What’s he going to do? Nothing, that’s what. The one time my ex-shortman should have stood by me, he didn’t. He let another man say mean things to me and then was angry with me because he was unable to fix the situation. What kind of bs is that?
Karl R 299
Jackie said: (#297)
“He was rude, arrogant, selfish and told me he would never marry me.”
“It’s commonly referred to as Napoleon Syndrome. And this guy had it in spades.”
One of my girlfriends cheated on me. She was a redhead. Should I assume that all redheads are unfaithful?
Jerks come in all sizes. Unfaithful women come in all hair colors. I’m not seeing a correlation between your ex’s size and his treatment of you.
Jackie said: (#298)
“What’s wrong with picking someone your own size anyway?”
I’m 5’11″; my girlfriend is 5’1″. Why on earth should I refuse to date an amazing woman just because she is nowhere near my size?
Jackie said: (#298)
“Women want to feel that if she can be protected by her man. What’s he going to do?”
Size stopped being relevant in combat when firearms were invented. At what height do men become bulletproof?
You’re biased against short men. That’s your choice. Please stop trying to claim this is a logical decision rather than an emotional one.
Susan 300
I agree that it’s very difficult for short or fat or balding or old men to date. Just as much as it’s difficult for tall or fat or old women to date. I think the point being is to date within your league. I don’t mean to sound shallow. In this age of online dating, there are so many more options available, though. E.g. http://www.xl-dating.com is specifically aimed at overweight people. Or, http://www.senior-contact.com for older people, and I’ve even seen a handicap site, http://www.handicap-dating.com, . I haven’t seen a site for short men, though, but I’m sure it’s out there.
Just saying, a short man actually has it easier than a tall woman. He still has a lot more options as there are a lot of very short women as well.
Evan Marc Katz 301
@Susan: Not if those short women won’t consider dating him, he doesn’t. And that’s the point. Tall women still have 25% of men who are taller. Short men might have 50% of women who are shorter, but those 50% won’t pay attention to him.
starthrower68 302
@Susan,
I personally have tried the niche dating sites for heavier women. I know it’s a personal problem, but if someone does show interest in me, then I wonder what’s wrong with him. Wierd, I know.
Jackie 303
For Karl R: 1. You’re right. Jerks do come in all sizes. 2. Historically, I’m sure you would agree that men generally choose women shorter than themselves and this is perfectly normal. And did you ever ask your girlfriend why she’s not with a short man? 3. As far as short men in combat, I wouldn’t be comfortable with a man carrying a weapon. My ex let one of his friends walk all over me without saying a word. That’s the only form of protection I would expect. And I would return the same courtesy. 4. If my preference is taller men, that’s my prerogative. But I have given short men a chance and they can be just as crappy as tall ones, so I might as well go with the preference. Agree?
Cat 304
I agree with Karl when he says: “I’d recommend that you carry the weapon.” I carry a kubaton with me at all times. (If you go to the link, the one I have is exactly like the second picture.) It’s attached to my key ring so it’s always with me and already in my hand when I’m walking to my car. And it also works as a great deterrent! Because criminals choose their victims. Seeing my large spiked weapon in my hand means I’m prepared to fight, and they will definitely get hurt if they try to attack me. Also, my guy friends think it’s incredibly cool!
Kubaton’s are an inexpensive way (around $5 online) to protect your most valuable possession: YOU.
As for height, I’m 5’1″ and a guy who’s 5’6″ is a lot more fun to dance with than a guy who’s 6’2″. It’s very hard to connect in a tango “close embrace” with the taller leaders…
Karl R 305
Jackie said: (#303)
“Historically, I’m sure you would agree that men generally choose women shorter than themselves and this is perfectly normal.”
Historically women were considered to be second class citizens (and in many parts of the world they still are). While this may have been “normal,” it doesn’t make it logical.
“did you ever ask your girlfriend why she’s not with a short man?”
She’s with me, and I’m not interested in sharing.
Furthermore, she’s dated a lot of men, and height was never one of her selection criteria. (Nor was it one of mine.)
“I wouldn’t be comfortable with a man carrying a weapon.”
Actually, I’d recommend that you carry the weapon. Your boyfriend won’t be around all the time, and that way you can date anyone without having to concern yourself with his ability to defend you.
“My ex let one of his friends walk all over me without saying a word. That’s the only form of protection I would expect.”
Am I understanding you correctly? The only form of protection you expected was that he would speak up on your behalf … and you think his height somehow was a factor?
I agree that he should have verbally defended you, but I can’t imagine why another man of his height wouldn’t have been able to do so in the manner you expected.
“If my preference is taller men, that’s my prerogative.”
We’re in agreement on this.
“But I have given short men a chance and they can be just as crappy as tall ones, so I might as well go with the preference. Agree?”
I’d strongly recommend that you pursue non-crappy men, not crappy ones. That’s the overwhelming message that Evan tries to convey. And if you want a non-crappy man, you’ll more easily find one if you stop ruling them out based on irrelevant criteria … which includes height.
Your preference is your business. I’m just disputing your implication that a man’s height somehow makes him a worse boyfriend.
Nicole 306
A couple of months ago I met up with an old friend from school. He showed up with roses and we had a good laugh. I was really into him and he seemed enthused by me. I am 5.54 and he claimed to be 5.67 however I was taller than him and he was skinnier than I am (I’m 130lb). My friends loved him and he was a lot of fun but I kept thinking about his height. I was telling my friends he was like a Polly Pocket… Pocket size.. So the only reason I was torn as to whether I wanted to date him was because of his height and kept trying to think past that since he had such a smashing personality. I am not so shallow as to judge someone for their height.. However it was hard to shake.. And like Jaya says, it’s like holding a child. When we were in bed, regardless of who was on top, it felt awkward. I felt huge. Not attractive. Alas, he disappeared so I didn’t have to “worry” much more.
You mention, in http://www.evanmarckatz.com/products/why-he-disappeared.html Mistake #2 You’re Being Too Proactive, masculine men feeling emasculated.. Doesn’t a “bigger” woman next to a man make him feel emasculated? I have to admit that I feel masculine next to a shorter, skinnier man even though I am of average height and have good build! Can a short man (or avg. man) feel attractive next to a taller woman? A big part of dating and relationships is based on how your partner makes you feel.. Right?
To be honest for an online dating add, I would not respond to someone shorter than I am but if I were to meet someone casually and grew to him I would (try to) stick with him for who he was.
PS. I think you are Uh-Mazing. Props from Greece.
Alex C 307
I don’t have a problem with asian Asian guys, granted, the last one I was seriously interested in was 6’6″. Being a 6′ tall female with mile long legs, it’s nice to be dating a 6’4″ man who I can look in the eye and embrace comfortably. Most of my girlfriends come up to boob level in photos and the like. I wouldn’t want my man embracing me with his face buried into my chest. Creepy.
If I were a tiny little wisp of a thing, I wouldn’t mind dating a short man. I’ve always been envious of the little 5′ gal that can date any guy, since they’re pretty much all taller than she is. I’m considerably more limited in that way. I realize I choose to be limited in that respect, but I’m no different than guys who choose to date shorter girls, or thinner girls, etc etc. I don’t really understand why a tiny woman wouldn’t feel comfortable dating a tiny man, though…
Fortunately, there’s someone out there for everyone.
Es-Di 308
I’m a 5 1″ woman, and reasonably beautiful, yet when I’m out with my taller girlfriends, they are the ones who get the instant attention.Yet, I don’t see a reason to be bitter about it. in the end it’s my personality that will come to my rescue. and I just have to work a bit harder on my style and looks. I have to dress smarter and always always keep my weight checked, whereas a taller woman can look just good in khakis and flip flops and a couple of extra pounds!
On the other hand, I don’t specifically enjoy dating short men ( oh what a hypocrite!), especially that everytime I’m in a bar or club, I get approached by quite a few of the shortest of the men there , and a lot of them have very pushy and pretending to be confident ( talking personal experience, not medical statistics!)
finally, despite the fact that I’d rather date someone tall, some of the hottest men I’ve dated have been short, BUT they were intelligent ( and not pretentious!), smart dressers, kind and attentive, and THIN!
Daria 309
I feel lucky because to me – woman – a man’s height is irrelevant! Yay!
I’ve dated taller and shorter men and somehow I just don’t notice!
A very short man approached me at the club the other night, and I gave him my number. He was a great conversationalist, very attractive, and had plenty of women dating him.
cheryl 310
Hello All
In response to women not dating short men I never had a problem dating shorter men in the past but i do now. And it has nothing to do with me it has to do with them! I am 5’5 by the way and I have dated 4 guys all 5’6 or under and this is what I found: Napolean complexes, control freaks, perfectionists, lack of empathy (ironic considering they are short), and tight wads. Did I forget to mention they were all well off/rich! Apparently money entitled them to treat me like I was a Barbie and demand I become what they want. One of them explained his “spread sheet” of characteristics he wanted in a relationship. No I’m not kidding.
They all also seemed to have chips on their shoulders, wanted me as arm candy, and seemed a bit bitter even though they were 26, 36,and 39. They all also seemed very insecure, judgmental , and not like very happy people. Also they wanted so badly to be players as much as the next guy and couldn’t possibly be free or available emotionally as they seemed to be trying to prove so desperately to themselves they were desirable. It was tiring. The one with the spreadsheet totally checked out this Double D girl for a while and then said, “It’s so hard not to go after what you want even when there is no future in it.” Yes, I found that very arrogant as well.
My last boyfriend was 5’6 and about 30 pounds overweight. He kept telling me how much money he had, how his grandfather had bought a second jet, he went to England for Prep School, and he was getting his trust fund. I told him I didn’t care about his money. Did that make him happy …nope! It made him insecure. He seemed to want it to matter so he had power in the relationship. Also he would keep telling me how other women hit on him and he was sorry I was jealous. But the problem was I wasn’t jealous. Then he broke up with me because I didn’t fit into his world. Oh, and he REALLY SUCKED in bed:( I mean unbelievably so! I had to go to therapy to get over the experience.
So while short men may feel prejudice against them, my personal experience is they have made themselves very unlikable, selfish, self-centered, and just as playerish as tall guys all the while resenting me and insinuating I wasn’t enough for them.
At the time their height wasn’t even a factor as to whether I dated them or not. Does it mean I will never date a shorter guy again – no. But it has left a negative affect.
Alan 311
I wonder what would happen if I where to go up to a tall woman or an overweight woman and so openly mock them as it seems acceptable to do to a shorter man. I’m pretty sure I would get slapped in the face and everyone would glare at me.
If the shorter guy doesn’t feel like less of a man for not towering over every girl why should you be insecure and feel like less of a woman?
For the record I’m 5’3 and 121 lbs, not just a short guy, but a tiny guy. Everyone I’ve ever dated has been taller than me. However I’m also handy around the house, a good cook, well groomed, polite, optimistic, a successful high school teacher, intelligent, and I have a pretty good if sometimes silly sense of humor.
sayanta 312
you know- to get to the original point of this post- I never understood why Asian men are not ‘desired’- I think they are absolutely beautiful.
A-L 313
RE: Alan‘s #311
No, it’s not okay to mock short guys. And glad to know that you’re such a well-rounded individual. I’m sure you’ll find a lovely lady if you haven’t done so already.
RE: Sayanta‘s #312
I think part of it depends on the part of Asia guys are from. Many eastern Asian countries have guys with slighter builds. Along with many women having issues with a guy’s height, I think there are many women who have issues with a guy’s build. If his is slighter/smaller than hers (even if he is taller) then it can cause issues. I think this is less of an issue with south Asian men, as they seem to be more solidly built (though not to the degree of the Scandinavians). But yeah, there are definitely guys of Asian descent (like Naveen Andrews) who are hot.
apple21 314
I dated a short guy. It didn’t really occur to me that he was short until a million complexes about his height started to come out. He wore clothes and shoes that were too big for him. He got into a fight just because somebody told him he had cute little ears. He always wanted to conquer the world and become rich. But he wasn’t very business savvy so he knew he couldn’t earn the envy other men through financial success. So he left me for a stripper because he wanted other men to look up to him. After that, I went out with a few more short guys. But the Napoleon complex is rampant. So, I refuse to date short guys now. I would not want to marry a short guy and then have short kids who will suffer through life with a short-man complex.
Janice T 315
Frankly, it’s because it feels really odd to kiss a guy who’s much shorter than you – it’s not romantic. It’s distracting – along the lines of the guy being a bad kisser.
Now, I will say that his chances will improve as women get older, and are either less picky/ pragmatic, or more mature-thinking. Hopefully the latter.
In the meantime, all short men can hope for are short women, foreign women who want to marry for citizenship, and the occasional gold digger who doesn’t care how short the guy is who’s holding the wallet.
Sayanta 316
A-L- Yeah…I assumed we were pretty much talking about East Asian men (Chinese, Korean, etc.) I called them beautiful because I love the clear complexion, eyes, and high cheekbones. Usually, I hear people put Indians into our own category instead of ‘asian.’ The funny thing is, technically, we fall under the ‘Caucasian’ category.
Janice- I think every short man who just read your post has 0 self esteem left.
SarahinKY 317
I’m 5’3 and wear heels regularly. That said, I’ll go out with a guy who is my height (before heels) or slightly taller – though I prefer a man about 5’10 or so. What bothers me most is 1) lying about your height online and 2) being way heavier than your pictures. I dated 2 guys that were my height, in great physical shape, & one of them was equipped to make porn stars look ‘small’ if you catch my drift. If a man is short & heavy then he will look much more attractive if he stays fit/trim. It’s just that simple. If he has other features that might cause some reservation among women (balding, bad skin, or crazy ex’s) then he should solicit advice from his women friends on how to work on those issues to maximize his chances.
Sal 318
I’m 4’11 and most people would expect me to date short guys, including short guys, but that’s usually a reason why I won’t! I actually really like being around VERY tall guys. I’m talking at least over 5’10. I’m even comfortable being with a guy who is 6’4. A lot of my guy friends growing up where taller, so it’s just what I’m used to. I am used to being tiny and I -like- it, I like feeling like something special, and treasured. The thing is, it’s not really up to the guy to make me feel that way. It’s the way *I* feel when I’m around a certain guy.
Also, in my experience a lot of short guys have approached me simply because I am so small and it really bothers me. I don’t want to be anyone’s default choice just because I am tiny. I guess that’s another reason I tend to go for tall guys; they clearly have their pick of the litter and I can’t help but feel a little pride when they pick me, the shortest girl. I just feel right off the bat that if a 5’3 guy were to approach me, then he must not have much self confidence. Otherwise, he should be talking to girls much taller than me. If I have my own standards and I don’t want to date short guys, I hope there are short guys out there who don’t want to date short girls either. Women can smell insecurity on a man, and even though you’re guy isn’t “woe is me”, he doesn’t come off as completely comfortable in his skin either. I’ve known guys who were 5’3 who dated gorgeous girls who were taller than them and it’s because they had confidence. Maybe that doesn’t radiate online, so maybe he needs to go out in public and meet people that way. Just a thought!
Sal 319
Oh, also, I gotta say… and this might sound brutally honest, but since I am 4’11, I feel uncomfortable at the idea of being “the short couple”. In addition, although I am nowhere near close to thinking about children, it has crossed my mind that if I were to date a guy who was 5’3, if we had a boy, he would probably have similar struggles.
I just want to be honest, but I hope that short guys don’t feel insecure over it. 4’11 is not a flattering height and I have put up with ridicule during most of my childhood and even still into my adult life. When I graduated high school I begged my parents to pay for growth supplements for me, because I wanted to “have a chance” in college. I’m really glad I didn’t. College made me love being short. It was what made me stand out, and I realized that if I “owned it”, it wasn’t such a bad thing anymore. People can tell when you’re insecure, but something which is perceived as a flaw can instantly be turned into a feature depending on your attitude. I love being 4’11 now, and yeah another inch or two might be nice, but I couldn’t imagine being over 5’1. Sure, life might be convenient and people might take me more seriously, but because I’ve had to work hard to prove myself I have developed other positive traits like being ambitious and forthright. Anyway, as you can see I have loaddsss to say about height, but I’ll stop there.
Jason Miller 320
This is really not that difficult a problem to solve as it appears. I once knew an Asian couple that got married and they both were tiny and the groom was a couple inches shorter than the bride. I think she might have been 5’3″ tops. It didn’t matter to them, so why should it matter to a guy who’s 5’3″? He may not be as appealing to a woman taller than he is, but there are so many women out there that are shorter than he is, why can’t he find one? Surely a super petite woman is more likely to appreciate a guy who’s only a couple inches taller than she is. Who cares if they’re the short couple? I’d hazard a guess there are plenty of 4’11″ women out there who feel pretty self conscious too about their height.
This is more of an issue of perception than anything else. I suspect that if he could actually own and accept his body the way it is, his chances would improve dramatically. I feel like we are not doing him justice by assuming his market value is so low just because he’s not in the middle of the bell curve. He’s valuable to SOME WOMAN OUT THERE AND MAYBE MANY MANY MORE THAN WE THINK! There’s someone out there for everybody. You just may have to really think out of the box to find that person. He just may have to cast his net more widely to find her. Soldier on my brother and take your search worldwide. Love transcends space and time. Go where the short women go. Find the woman that appreciates you and doesn’t find your height and issue. Own it and have a happy life.
El-Habib 321
I never felt bad about my size, coz I’m 5.5 and I usually date women who are always (a litttle) taller than me. The truth to win a girl’s heart is listening and care.
Matt 322
I’d just like to say something about the whole height issue regarding dating, attraction etc. The height thing seems to be a real big issue on the internet, but, in all of my 30 years experience as a man on this planet, I have seen no evidence of it in REAL life. No evidence that women are more attracted to taller men, whatsoever.
My own personal experience with women, and my observations, tell me that a woman doesn’t care about a man’s height anywhere near as much as his personality – unless he’s EXTREMELY short, or significantly shorter than she is.
I’m 5′ 8.5″ barefoot, probably around 5′ 9.5″ – 5′ 10″ in shoes, which makes me a huge, enormous, giganticly significant 3.5 inches under 6 foot, but my height has never been an issue with me, nor any of the women I have known.
If any women ever told me I was too ‘short’ to date, I would not take it personally in the slightest – I would probably laugh so hard an earthquake would happen, mmwwhahahaha.
Sayanta 323
Matt- Lots of things that are issues on the Internet don’t seem to be ones in real life. I know a lot of short men who are married or have girlfriends- hell, their love lives are better than mine! LOL
According to what I’ve read on the Internet, women who are choosy about whom they sleep with or are virgins will have soooo much difficulty finding men in real life. Not so according to the people I’ve been meeting lately.
My lesson learned? Question everything. I mean, seriously- everything.
A-L 324
RE: Matt’s #322
I’m too tired to look up the statistics, but I’ve always been told that 5’9″ is the average height for American males. At 1/2″ shorter than that, you’re still very much in the range of “normal” and probably don’t see much of a problem when dating. I think Evan’s post is about guys who are 5’5″ and under, or maybe even 5’6″. The shorter they are, the more difficulty they encounter. But glad to hear things are going well for you!
RE: Sayanta’s #333
I don’t want to veer too far off topic, but I’m just curious about what you’ve been hearing/reading in regards to choosy/virginal folk in the dating place. If you want you can answer in the No Sex Before Marriage thread if you think that’s a better spot for it.
Goldie 325
I’m 5’9″. I’ll admit to you, it does feel good being out with a really tall guy and feeling short standing next to him. But it’s not a must-have by any means. Someone my height is fine, as long as he doesn’t mind me wearing heels every once in a while.
Nothing since, not online, not IRL, nowhere. My guess is, short guys are not willing to date tall women, either, and why would they if they have a huge pool of shorter women. Win-win.
Now I’d probably feel really uncomfortable if the guy only came up to my chest or such, but I’ve never had it happen. In my whole life, I’ve only had a 5″ tall guy go after me once, and we both were in college, so didn’t know any better
Sayanta 326
A-L: Well, in general, the tone of this blog (and others), seems to be that choosy/virginal women will have difficulty in the dating market- but over the past couple of years, I’ve met such women who’ve had (more than one) great relationships, and with no particular difficulty. If I hadn’t met them- and gone purely by what I read on blogs- I wouldn’t have thought such a thing was possible.
Again- I’m just saying, now whenever I read something, my first reaction is “Is that really true- or a media tweak?”
Cat 327
@Sayanta, if it was so easy to be in a great relationship, this blog would have no readership! That’s nice that you’ve met a few women who, on the surface, seem to have gotten a great relationship with ease, but that doesn’t mean that everything else you read is a “media tweak.” My own dating problems are certainly not fabricated! Yes, anything you read deserves a grain of salt, so to speak. But you should also apply that to regular life. I’ve known many “happy couples” who seemed enviable right up until they announced they were divorcing…
But to get back to the topic: the last Asian man I dated brought up this same topic on his own. He said it was very hard to find women online (match.com) willing to date him, despite being relatively tall (close to 6′,) well educated, etc. After two dates he got back together with an ex from high school through Facebook…
A-L 328
RE: Sayanta’s #326
I’m glad that you’re seeing more positive things in the dating world. I suspect that if people are dating people with similar value systems (though not necessarily identical) that issues like the sex ones aren’t as big of an issue. I think it’s more of an issue if one is going for a different type of person, particularly a charismatic bad boy that this will be an issue.
RE: Cat’s #327
In used to be roommates with an Asian guy. He was in med school, funny, adventurous, etc. Yet he did not have swarms of women attacking him. My guess? He was 5’10″ and 130 pounds, which most women would consider on the scrawnier side. This was a guy who wanted to sumo wrestle me in private (in those blowup suits) because he thought there was a distinct possible that 5’1″ me who wore a size 6 at the time might beat him, and he didn’t want our other roommate to know. And for a lot of women, it’s an issue if we think we’re physically stronger than the guy.
No Holdin Back 329
I have to keep this as blunt as possible for my personal self. I am not a thin woman and I come from a tall family. I agree with a lot of what people have said, especially comments about what is perceived as hot, acceptable and desirable in the US. As to appear more confident I gravitate toward taller men, so that at least in ONE way I can feel “smaller”. However I have dated men slightly shorter, or of equal height and it wasn’t the problem that caused a split. Also I was completely enamored with an intelligent, cute, hip, funny, talented amazing man 5’3…..too bad he was married to a pretty little Barbie doll! So attraction and intrigue is not always based on stature. I am guilty of though asking guys (when attempting to meet online) “ready for the loaded question?” and it is “How tall are you?”….It is upsetting when you’re lied to. I usually feel out chemistry before “ruining” it with that question. However I can’t discount amazing little guys, I know several…. they usually gravitate to tiny women. It is what it is unfortunately.
Goldie 330
@ No Holdin Back #329, “I am guilty of though asking guys (when attempting to meet online) “ready for the loaded question?” and it is “How tall are you?”…”
What I’ve found when I briefly dated online was that every single guy that contacted me, was taller than me. I listed my height correctly. My guess is, shorter guys are not interested in a woman that’s taller than they are, and so they do not initiate contact. Now if I contact a guy first, then yeah all bets are off, because the height listed on his profile may have been fudged by a few inches. I guess in that case, he’d check my profile and, if he’s not comfortable with a tall woman, then he won’t reply to me, problem solved. So, I’ve never really had to ask this question. I have encountered quite a few discrepancies between the guys’ profiles and the actual data, but height was never one of them.
Seriously, why ask? When you meet in person, you’ll see for yourself how tall he is. Worst case scenario, you’ll still get a coffee date and an interesting conversation out of it, and then you can go your separate ways if you choose to.
ShyGuy 2010 331
Hi all.. Just writing in regard to my posts (reference to the first one is #282).
So basically, my Leg-Lengthening surgery will begin near the end of the month, and no doubt i’m probably gonna be a complete wreck for a few days up to and when I go in but hoping it’ll really be worth it so I have my fingers crossed that it all goes okay.
I’d also like to add after reading some of the recent comments, as a short guy, I do occasionaly find myself attracted to taller girls (say 5’8″ and up), as well as the shorter girls. I wouldn’t have a problem dating them if they were okay with it but it’s so easy for me to get it into my head that I just wouldn’t be attractive to them because of my lack of height, meaning I tend to avoid initiating conversations with them altogether.
Also, i’m aware of girls around my own height who may take offense to me approaching them as some might feel i’m being too shallow and insecure or something. It’s kind of hard to explain.. But it really leaves me in a pickle since I don’t actually feel I have a dating pool, and if I do, it’s probably a very small one.
Sometimes I think it’s easier if I just put up a front and remove myself from the dating world altogether. I’ve never felt loved and I don’t feel like anyone could genuinely love me as I am right now
I think it’s going to come down to luck, unfortunately.
Cat 332
@Shyguy2010 You’re just killing me with the whole leg-lengthening surgery. I can’t remember what your height is, but damn, I want to say it’s your attitude. Yes, someone shorter (or, in the case of an earlier commenter who’s female and much taller) has it harder. However, look at the topic. Should Asian men get race surgery? (Uh, yeah, possible. It’s eyelid surgery for Asians. I think mostly women get it.)
I mean, we all have our flaws and defects. We have to love ourselves first, and then look for someone else to also love us.
Frankly, anyone looking at surgery to attract a mate should look at this post first. What happens, shyguy2010, when you’re taller and get a girl. Will you hold it against her and always wonder if it’s not your personality but your new “height.”
But who am I to question something that you’d obviously put so much thought into. Good luck with the surgery! I hope it’s successful in every way. Best wishes.
Cat 333
@shyguy2010, I should add that I’ve dated guys from 6’10″ (with no athletic ability. He never “fit” anywhere. Not a seat or a doorway or anything) to guys shorter than 5′. And the shortest guy had the most magnetic eyes and sparking personality and was just awesome but going through a divorce.
It’s not the height that makes the man. It’s not walking ability either. I’ve met several men in wheelchairs who had no trouble getting dates…
If the 6’11″ guy and the 5′ guy and the guys in wheelchairs have a “dating pool,” so do you. And maybe surgery won’t make you realize that… Honestly, just do a one on one with Evan before you do this crazy surgery. No scalpel needed.
ShyGuy 2010 334
Cat, i’m sorry if I came across with an attitude, i’ve had a ton of knock backs in my life, not just with my height and it has probably made me a bit of a pessimist but I am a very relaxed and calm person most of the time.
I’m aware that I have it better than others but this is really my last chance to change a part of me that i’ve hated ever since I was little. Everyone in my family and on the surgery team feel that i’ll benefit a lot from it, and I wouldn’t go ahead with it if they felt otherwise.
As far as being taller and then finding a mate, I wouldn’t hold anything against her. Since the height is permanent, it wouldn’t matter how I was before, it’s in the past if you follow what i’m saying.
I am worried i’m making a stupid mistake which i’ll regret but I just want to feel like a normal person, i’m sick of being thought of as the littlen especially now that i’ve reached adulthood. It’s not cute anymore..
I’m just under 5’2 btw. Sorry again, i’ll read that post and just keep all this to myself from now on.
Cat 335
@Shyguy2010, I apologize! I would never want to make anyone feel they shouldn’t post here on Evan’s blog. Again, I am judging without having to walk in your shoes. It sounds like you don’t take this surgery lightly and have really researched it. I do hope I haven’t dissuaded you from posting here and that you’ll let us know how it goes.
You don’t need to keep anything to yourself. You’re anonymous here anyway, so why not just share? Best of luck to you! I’m 5’1″
ShyGuy 2010 336
Cat, please don’t apologise, I could totally see where you were coming from.
You’re right, this definitely isn’t a rush decision. It’s taken well over a year to get to this stage and I am still having second thoughts, probably will do right up until the minute I go in. I’ll probably ask myself what the heck am I doing..
I guess i’ll be sure to post in a month or so, i’ll let you know how it goes, or if it goes.
No Holdin Back 337
Oh my God, here, the whole time I’m reading your post about “leg surgery” I thought it was your sense of humor and not an actual thing to contemplate. However, who am I to say? I got so sick and tired of poking fun @ myself for being overweight (having to be the comedian with personality hearing all my life “you are so pretty, you’d be a knockout if only you weren’t so heavy” or hearing MULTIPLE times in life “You’re the coolest girl ever, I’d marry you in a heartbeat…..if you were skinny”) that I finally had surgery as well, now I’m in the pool of the “freak fetish-ists” that don’t want me now because I am shrinking before their eyes and who have their own mental “issues” (that’s a nice way of putting it)…. and I’m in-between now where “normal” guys want perfect physicality. So I “feel” ya Shy guy. Oh and to comment #330….the shorter guys that have chased after me like that I’m taller….I have never lied about my height and have even said “the taller the better for me because I come from giants” yet I still get responses from shorter guys. I now (after recently dating non- “giants” have a different appreciation. So even though I DO put it out there they still “hither” ….guess I’m hot….lol, just teasing…..(although I am..lol). Hey I love Bill Maher and he is “short”
I believe we all have our chances @ love. ….(I hope….) 
healy 338
“Height is irrelevant to anything that makes a man a good husband or father.” This is totally true. it’s just physical. It will change to a proper period, we all gonna be old. But attitude never gets old and really matters. If you have a good thoughts then a successful relationship will be your greatest gift.
Matt 339
I dated a chiropractor 2 years back, and she was 5’11″ – 5′ 11.5″. A great height for a woman if you ask me. Yup, she was a full 2.5 inches taller than me. Significant on paper perhaps - or as discussed in one of these forums – but IRRELEVANT in real life.
As I said, I’m 5’8.5″ barefoot – and I’m 99% certain that it wouldn’t have mattered even if i’d been 5’5″.
Now, I absolutely love high heels on a woman, the word GRRRRRRRR springs to mind. I actively encouraged her to wear them more often, despite her being a chiropractor dedicated to the correction of musculoskeletal disorders, which wearing high heels a lot is supposed to cause - bit of irony for you there. I used to joke with her about the heels, telling her the only guy who would still be taller than her in heels would be Sultan Kosen.
My height didn’t matter. I did not even CONSIDER it. Nor did my skinny forearms or the fact I was unemployed (at the time). I’m nothing special, apart from devilish good looks I’d say I’m an average Joe. You see, when a man and a woman get together and that thing called ‘chemistry’ happens, most of a woman’s ‘preferences’ go out the window altogether – including height. I’ve heard women say they won’t date a guy under 6 foot, and then a couple of weeks later observed them ignoring a 6’1″ guy and chasing after an aloof 5′ 7″ guy.
My point - being tall is a good thing, it’s a plus, but it’s nowhere near the big deal people make it out to be. If you’re ‘short’ or ‘shortish’, your height will only stop you getting laid if YOU let it. It’s the ‘voice of doubt’ that’s stopping you, and that voice of doubt is only in YOUR head. Learn to not care.
Christ, I think this is the biggest ramble I’ve ever performed on the internet…
Matt 340
GOLDIE: I believe Danny DeVito’s eyes would be level with your nipples.
SAYANTA: You should see some of the questions on ‘Yahoo Answers’ – “how can the world possibly end in 2012, if i have a yoghurt that expires in 2013?”
A-L: To be honest I didn’t read many comments at first, I just steamed in with my own opinion.
MARSVULCAN: Agreed. One of the most unnattractive qualities a person can have is superficiality. It’s worse than facial ugliness. Which is maybe slightly superficial, but you get my point.
SHYGUY: Best of luck with the surgery.
Miriam 341
I’m 4 foor 10 and female. I like guys of all heights =P xx
TallGirlNYC 342
First of all, I wanted to say that I love reading your blog, Evan! So happy to have discovered it. I’m learning about men, but, even more importantly, about myself!
Now, on to the post. I’m 5’9″ (and people frequently think that I’m even taller). I’ve always dated taller guys in the past, but I’ve never intentionally discriminated against shorter ones. I recently started seeing a guy I really like who is about three inches shorter than me (at least I think it’s that…it may be even more). I’m extremely attracted to him physically, and didn’t even think about the fact that he was shorter until after he asked me out, and I’d known him for a little while before that. While I do love the feeling of feeling small next to a guy, other factors – physical and emotional chemistry, compatibility, kindness, sense of humor matter SO much more.
A lot of my friends who are dating online will “disqualify” someone who’s not at least an inch or two taller than they are. I always encourage them to give those guys a shot – and I encourage readers of this blog to do the same!
I do like guys who are in good shape, though. I would much rather go for someone who’s shorter and fit than someone who’s my height or taller and has a gut. But, again, physical attraction is only one factor!
Annie 343
Have them learn how to dance like a god. Short, tall, Asian, fat, skinny… If he has a sense of humor and can whirl me around the ballroom in his arms like a prince, it don’t matter what he looks like… i’m 5’6 and 135 lbs. my boyfriend is two inches shorter and a lot of inches wider and i don’t give a **** because we make fire on the dance floor!
Susan 344
I am a tall female (5’10-5’11) and I am overweight for my height. I do not mind how the guy is. I do have a thing for Asian guys though and I know they are smaller, so I doubt they would be interested in me..
m 345
“Futhermore very few men have “weight preferences” or “weight requirements” as in they narrow it down to some number. “
Where is your planet, Zain? I’d like to live on it. It’s clearly quite far away from NYC. Or LA, for that matter.
I’m also amused that you’re so adamant about that, and about “overweight being unhealthy” and “women can always lose weight” — haven’t heard much about those antidepressants of which weight gain is a side effect (so much so that some doctors admit to failing to inform their patients of that when they prescribe, because they know their female patients won’t take them if they know beforehand), have we now? — while being so simultaneously adamant about “men don’t have to be buff; men don’t have to go to the gym”.
So I guess in your world overweight is only “unhealthy” for women? Double standard much?
“My guess is, shorter guys are not interested in a woman that’s taller than they are, and so they do not initiate contact. “
Repeated for emphasis, as it is a regularly overlooked point in discussions like this.
Even Evan, when he pointed out that taller girls still have 25% of the population that’s taller than they are, and that 50% of shorter women apparently won’t date shorter men, did not opine on the discussion point that those men taller than the tall women still want to date the short women.
Karl R 346
m asked: (#345)
“Where is your planet, Zain?”
I’d say Zain is accurate, even in NYC or LA. My girlfriend is 5’1″, has a small frame and weighs about 100 lbs. If she gained 80 lbs, she would look awful. On the other hand, I have dated taller women with larger frames who looked quite attractive at 180 lbs. Similarly, if a woman who is 5’7″ weighs 100 lbs, I’ll probably be rejecting her because she looks anorexic.
Men don’t have a fixed weight cutoff. A woman’s height and frame affect that decision.
m said: (#345)
“haven’t heard much about those antidepressants of which weight gain is a side effect”
Zain said: (#120)
“I’m aware that there are some people who are overweight due to conditions that are not in their control (they have a medical condition such as weight gain put on during pregnancy weight gain due to medication and so fourth) However I’m positive that for every woman who’s overweight due to a medical condition They’re 20 women who got that way due to things like laziness, piss poor diet, and so fourth.”
m, I’d say you’re quoting Zain out of context. Furthermore, I’d go further than Zain and say you’re wrong.
If an anti-depressant has a side-effect of weight gain, it’s caused by one of two things: either the drug increases the user’s appetite, or the drug lowers the user’s metabolism. Either of those will lead to weight gain unless compensated for. Either will make it harder for someone to lose weight, but not impossible.
And if you’re still so certain of your position, I bet I can lose 10 pounds before you can grow 1″ taller.
m said: (#345)
“while being so simultaneously adamant about ‘men don’t have to be buff; men don’t have to go to the gym’.”
Who are you quoting? Zain didn’t say this, and neither did anyone else in this thread.
Jess 347
Hey I’m a girl who is 5 foot 10 and that’s when I’m barefoot, how can you expect me to be interested in guys shorter than that?
john 348
I don’t blame them. men want skinny girls and women want tall guys
Ramzi 349
Though half asleep, I want to make a participation. With may be different background, male middle eastern a bit more than 6 ft. I believe that often times women make more sense than we men do.
I know that we like what we like at the end, but -speaking about myself at least- I am always attracted with how a woman looks and I know that I tend to make the same mistake, that I should not judge a woman by the way she looks only. As long as the woman has a certain degree of beauty-which all has- to my liking, I should consider the substance. Women are more concerned with substance than physical looks, which to me is more prudent. I also believe that it is in women nature that she want to feel that she is sort of protected and smaller to a man -physically- and believe that makes a lot of sense, that is nothing aginst shorter men, at the end substance is the real determining factor I guess
K 350
I had to write on this one because I have felt this way before. I have felt short, and rejected many times. But I did some serious studying on the topic of what causes attraction and I found out that height has very low effect on whether a woman would chose him as a partner. Why do I say this? Because I am very short. 5’1″.
I have been dating tall girls all of my life. My current GF is 5’7″. The one before her was 5’5 and so on.
You have to understand that just like women wear make up, men need to wear confidence and playfulness. I am a short guy, but when I go out I have 10 times more fun than anyone around me. I look for ways to be bold, and courageous in playful ways and guess what, I get ass like crazy. I am not shitting you. Here is something to try.
Go to a club, and dance like no body is watching. DONT GO THERE TO PICK UP A CHIC. Go to have fun! Go FOR YOU not others. Do shit you wouldn’t do infront of people. Do it for 30 mins and you will notice girls coming around you like you are the chic magnet. Make sure you smell good and you smile and when you see a girl that you dont like tell her you are not interested right away. BE PICKY AS FUCK!
This is Me 351
Im a Male and short as hell, screw it, im happy with me so screw what anyone has to say! lol
Seriously 352
After 351 replies, I am just laughing too hard to think.
OK, I’m 5’5″ my GF is 5’11″
She’s brown skinned, I’m white skinned
She’s voluptuous, I’m stocky
The 6 inches of stature is just part of the shock people experience since, we are madly in love after 8 years and always laughing.
Did I ever have problems dating? Nope. Why? I am patient, confident and I am not an a-hole. Add in quirky, intelligent with lots of interests and an open minded (her words) and you can see why I didn’t think being short was my problem.
Did it close doors? Sure. Did I care? Nope. Did I have limited response with online dating? Absolutely. Until I starting ignoring profiles of women that listed a height, race or income requirement!
Short guys only get the raw deal if they chase after shallow, vapid insecure women.
Good news for all the women who want an taller guy: you are only getting older and shallow, vapid, insecure men see women as a commodity with an expiration date.
Best o’ luck!
Denise 353
Seriously, that’s harsh. I liked your attitude about not letting things hold you back and figuring out how to date on line. However I don’t think that women that have a preference for men who are their height and/or taller are shallow and vapid, and I don’t see the same for the men they end up women who prefer taller men. Geez Louise, just because we have preferences or certain things are not important to us as individuals makes us undesireable partners…
Sam P. 354
As a guy who is 5’7.5” and who’s had girls frankly give me obvious looks of disappointment when seeing how tall I am, I have to agree that women aren’t necessarily doing anything wrong by having height demands.
Dating is unfair and woman can be as superficial as men. It’s everyone for himself or herself. Even a woman who is 5’0” has no obligation to date short men, and no reason to unless she can’t get a tall guy. Since above average height men with above average personalities are by definition a minority, such women who insist on tall ones have to accept that they better be superior products themselves or that they will have to wait a while.
That being said, I feel that caution among short men is justified. Every woman who asked me “Are you really 5’8”?” (as my profile said (you have to round up, duh)) turned out to be a crappy date. Every woman who also said asked “Do you have a problem with my being tall?” also turned out to be a bad date. (I’d NEVER comment on a woman’s weight, so why women would comment on this eludes me)
No, I never had a problem with taller woman. I had several taller girlfriends and my fiancee is nearly my height. Yet I got too many “tall girl looks” and no-kiss first dates from women who commented on my lack of height. At the end of what turned out to be my life as a single person I finally had the strength to stop pursuing a tall woman who told me “5’8” is my minimum.” It’s something I’m proud of.
Bonaparte 355
Hey Everyone,
yet… So, I don’t know what the deal is. I think when you go out with your lady with the correct mindset, have a good time, and not be so uptight, she will like to be around you, and WANT to be around you more. Haven’t you ever seen ugly dudes get beautiful women? And, sometimes it isn’t because they are wealthy but they know how to have a good time -maybe take a dance class- and be unique, and be an overall good people AND don’t be a pushover.
Trust me!
I seriously don’t know what the big deal is… I am 25 years old, Latin fellow, and 5’1″, and currently in a relationship with a wonderful and beautiful woman. I have NEVER had issues with dating because of my size. Maybe most short men are having problems because some of us tend to take it so PERSONAL.
I’ve dated short women and taller women (as tall as 5’6″). I am not rich…
I think US men are more picky about looks but women not so much. If she says she is picky and doesn’t like short men… eh, who cares! If she notices how awesome you are they’ll throw that idea out the window
Your Friend, Bonaparte!
LiLi 356
As a 5’9″ woman, my height has been an issue with men in my dating life. i have been told I am ‘too tall’. Some men just prefer petite women, and it’s probably for the same reason some women prefer a tall man. For a man, standing next to a petite woman may make him feel more masculine. For a woman, standing next to a tall man may make you feel dainty and delicate. My concern is that i like to wear heels so I’m hovering around 6′. If a man has no problem with that, I’m ok with it, but I’ve generally found that i get the ‘Geez you’re so tall’ comments all night and that is a tur noff for me, and could be a signal of insecurity.
Michael17 357
Yeah, I wish I were a little taller. I’m 5’8″ (well maybe 5’7″ but I tell everyone I’m 5’8″).
I have met 20 women online this year, which isn’t bad. That is because both my profile and my emails are well-written.
I’ve recently done something else to compensate though. Other shorter guys can do this too. Lift weights to get stronger physically. I started lifting seriously a year ago, and even though it didn’t give me an extra inch of height, it did give me about 10–15 pounds of additional muscle mass. And that is worth an inch or two of additional height. Anyway, I have recently put into my online profile pictures of the “new” me, and recent pictures of me lifting (what is for me) a heavy amount of weight.
Most importantly though, I myself feel stronger and more masculine.
Denise 358
#357 Michael
I like your strategy! I bet you look great!
Lisa 359
I’ve never really thought about it. I tend to initially be attracted to a guy’s brain and if he’s smart enough, I can get past almost anything else (and I seriously mean it considering a couple of the wrecks I’ve dated). But if he starts acting insecure, it freaks me out. I’m just getting out of a not-relationship gone wrong with a guy who is pretty average as most standards go–but his looks didn’t really mean much to me. He’s reasonably attractive and really smart so I liked him. And I probably would have liked him if he was 5’3″ and had those same qualities (I’m only 5’2″ so just about anyone is taller than I am). What killed it for me was his insecurity. And it seems like short guys are often insecure. I like #357 Michael’s approach. He’s found something he likes about himself and run with it. Good for you.
Damian 360
My response is pretty much directed towards everyone who thinks this a double-standard with men having a preference for healthy/active women… not the random d*ck who’s only looking for someone short, skinny, and with big boobs. Those guys give the rest of us bad names — and we don’t need the extra help!
There is a big difference between having a preference for someone who is a specific height vs. someone who is not overweight. Weight is a choice. Yes, someone may be genetically predisposed to being large, but obesity is not killing this country purely because of genes. If you’re one of the unlucky people who is genetically incapable of being average or better-than-average in the weight department, then you truly do have it difficult. To the rest (read: majority) of the overweight population, ironically, maybe online dating isn’t the best way you should try to meet someone since it’s just another way for you to not be active. Get up and do some exercising and stop eating such a horrible diet. There’s no excuse for being overweight and the point is: you CAN control it. “The Biggest Loser” is an example of just how true that statement is. I’m not saying it’s easy, but look at what easy got you. Thus, if you choose not to take control of your life and become more fit, you are literally projecting a lack of self control, discipline, energy, motivation, and common sense (since you ARE literally killing yourself sooner than natural). Chances are you lack self confidence and are probably even depressed to one extreme or another. Who would choose this person as a match? Height is not something men can control without lying (read: wearing heels). Weight is. Similarly, I wouldn’t expect a woman to choose to date a man who was unhealthy because of weight by choice. I’m sure most women prefer a man who can keep up with them… the same goes for us men.
Sure, there are plenty of men out there who are purely a**holes and are discriminating for the sake of discrimination, but many more who are not, short or not, yet still prefer an active partner. (Of course, it seems we all now know a large piece of the female population would still prefer the a**hole because he’s over 5’10″ tall!) If you’re too heavy to want to run a 5k with me, go on a hike, or do something else that requires you to be healthy, why would I want to date you? The honesty is that I’m looking for someone who can participate in activities I enjoy. That’s not discrimination — that’s seeking a mutual match. Specifying a preference for something silly like a specific height (or age to a lesser extent) when it doesn’t impact the ability to share common experiences is by no means the same thing. Being short has so few limitations for activities — none I can really think of as long as you’re tall enough to reach the pedals and ride on all the rollercoasters and you’re not dreaming of being the next NBA star (even though there were/are some pretty short NBA players). I am an avid salsa dancer and I know a guy who is easily shorter than 5’5″, but has no problem dancing with one, let alone two or more ladies simultaneously, usually towering over him in their heels. He has no problem making them look great and of course giving them dancing pleasure, so I certainly don’t see his height as a dance restriction — he obviously doesn’t, nor do the ladies dancing with him. I regularly dance with ladies that are taller than me. It’s not a big deal for me if it isn’t for my dance partners. I’m 5’8″ and have never considered myself to be short, though I do understand that I’m below average for a white male. So what. Humans are not logical animals. We have to force ourselves to think logically. I’m not looking for someone based on height. I don’t care if I have to stand on a chair to kiss a lady as long as she keeps inviting me up there to kiss her. Have a sense of humor about life and stop paying attention to what everyone else thinks. Pick someone that you actually like as a person and not just as a mannequin. Life’s too short!
I’m not saying you don’t have the right to prefer taller men. Quite the opposite. You are attracted to who you are attracted to. I can see in my mind’s eye exactly the type of woman I prefer. It’s specific enough that I can imagine it. That doesn’t make me irrational or unfair. It makes me human. As long as I’m willing to settle for much more limited results, I shouldn’t complain. If I complain, I should be willing to relax my preference(s) to whatever extreme gives me the desired results. I get turned down enough to know I’m not every woman’s cup of tea either. Am I happy if it’s specifically because of my height? When I expect I have so much to offer and she’s not even giving me a rational chance? No… as it’s not something I can control… but that’s just how it goes. Women are rejected by me too for similar illogical reasons. However if you do choose to limit yourself based on superficial outer traits, be prepared to accept when you’re let down by the selection you’re left with. Once you’re fed up with the dating pool you’re in, you might try a bigger one.
Waterbaby 361
I’m 5’5″, Blonde and have dated guys that were around my height and much taller. I personally prefer a guy who is 6′ or under. My ex-husband that I started dating in high school was 6’3″ and I always felt smothered by his height.
Now, I seem to mainly date guys who are 5’6″ to 6 ft. I tend to date Asian, Italian or Hispanic guys mainly rather than the typical All-american guy.The last few guys I dated were Hispanic/Filipino, Japanese, American Indian/white, and Chinese/white. And I have dated bald guys too…..
I think that if a guy is confident and sexy, his height and ethnic background is not really an issue for me. A guy being obese though is a turn off for me since I’m attracted to really athletic guys.
phyllis 362
thank u all for your enlightening discussion.it still remains that women prefer taller men regardless of whether it is shallow, irrational , illogical or not
Andrea 363
I have to love the hypocrisy of short men leading into their missives about why women are shallow for not picking them with diatribes against overweight women…
I do think that perhaps collectively they might discriminate more in that regard, since I think that so many of them have so much to prove to the tall guys. (“See Mr. 6’3, I can get a hot girl too!!”) I think that people who are insecure about certain things about themselves always seeks out conventional arm candy.
I guess it’s funny that the argument is always that being fat is a choice (as a result of poor lifestyle choices). But if it is such a choice, it’s also not a permanent state, so you can run all of the marathons that you want, but at the end, you’ll still be short, whereas the one guy who does drag his girlfriend hiking, biking, jogging (which people of all sizes do since fitness is a journey and not something that you arrive at overnight or the minute you hit a certain number on the scale; ever hear of Clydesdales or Athenas?) will see some big changes in her. At least be honest and make it about appearance since you dont’ know how fit someone is based on their size, or whether they have been working out for a week, a month, a year, or more, which will make a HUGE difference no matter what size they are.
If you are going to argue against people being shallow, perhaps you shouldn’t lead in with a argument about how your form of shallowness is okay, but mine isn’t. We are all shallow about lots of things, some of which people control and some of which we cannot. I mean, we could argue that men that don’t make a lot of money are at fault and should have studied harder to get advanced degrees so they could be doctors or lawyers too. The right degree from the right school does pretty much result in certain comfortable “minimum” salaries.
It’s kind of hard to feel sorry for anyone who wants to complain about being put down if they want to fill their arguments of put downs for others, whether you blame them for their conditions or not.
Lead by example, not put downs. Reading these comments just makes me think that so many short men are angry, bitter, and miserable people, and it doesn’t make me sympathize with them in the least bit.
Kym 364
I’m a 5″1″ woman – and I love short guys! To me, there is nothing sweeter than having his face be right there for a kiss. I date a lot of Latinos and I have noticed that they don’t seem to have too much insecurity about their height. So ladies, if he is too short for you, you can send him my way.
Julie 365
I find that when I’m talking about hypothetical men, online, who I haven’t met, I tend to be more superficial. The truth is that the internet and dating sites showcase the superficial–it’s what you see first.
However, in real life when I’m actually meeting a guy, all the hawt in the world does not help if he opens his mouth and a torrent of stupid or obnoxious falls out.
I am relatively active–at least I try to be. I tend to slide into the habits of people I date. Yes, that’s a weakness, but it’s mine and I own it. Anyway, as a result I do not want a man whose idea of a good time is drinking beer and vegetating on the couch and eating lots of junk food. I don’t want a guy who I go out to dinner with who sees me dithering over the desert menu and says, “Aw, c’mon, have the apple pie.” I don’t want a guy who says, “Hey, it’s okay if you miss a workout now and then.”
I already know it’s okay for me to have the pie or miss a workout. I also know the guy who butts in and encourages me to eat more or skip workouts is only going to encourage me in one direction–downward.
If he can keep up, if he’s not just going hiking to impress me (and will stop once he “wins the prize”), if his good habits support mine and vice versa—-then he’s the “right” weight.
And I have no problem with guys who feel the same way about their own healthy habits. How long before the gal nags him not to go to the gym because really, she doesn’t expect him to always look that perfect, she’ll still love him if he gains a few pounds. Uh–maybe he’s going to the gym for himself, and feeling comfortable in his own skin, and because he enjoys it.
Fat or out of shape men nag me to take poorer care of my health. Yeah, I can definitely see why fit men avoid fat chicks.
Julie 366
I don’t think I’m god’s gift to men. I just have standards–standards for what is consistent with my own self-respect. That’s not just diet and fitness stuff, that’s across the whole spectrum of relationship attributes.
Guys who don’t meet my standards are not failures and unworthy of happiness or love or relationships forever and ever. Their mix of attributes is just a bad fit for me personally.
I’d have trouble dating a guy who didn’t have his own standards for a girl who fits with him or doesn’t. If you have no standards, then you’re just desperate and anybody who takes you on is likely to be making a bad match–because you won’t clue anyone in on what a good match (for you) is.
I don’t have a problem with guys anywhere in a broad age range. I don’t have a problem with bald if he wears it well (confidently). Race is a big shrug.
But a guy who brings me down instead of lifting me up–which includes the large subset of overweight guys with bad habits I don’t want to fall back into–is right out.
J.A. 367
andrea- i inderstand what you are trying to say but it came off to me like you think any man who isnt tall should only go for the ‘unnattractive’ girls and leave all the attractive ones to the tall guys. believe me…tall guys (generally) dont like overweight women just as much as short guys don’t. shorter guys like myself (5’7″) shouldnt have to settle for anybody they’re not attracted to just like taller guys shouldn’t. i’m not tall but im still confident, yet not in a cocky way, and i am attractive and have a good personality so why should i settle for a girl whom (i) dont think is attractive?
sorry for the lack of caps- my blackberry is being weird
Andrea 368
@ J.A. No, you shouldn’t have to go for anyone you don’t consider to be attractive, just like you shouldn’t expect women to go for what they don’t consider to be attractive. Also, your comment comes off to me that any woman who is overweight just isn’t going to get any man at all. It sounds like based on Evan’s article, you are running neck and neck really. I personally think that a lot of people who have shortcomings (no pun intended) actually do feel the need to overcompensate with their mate, so I think that more confident men can pick what they want and dont’ care what other people think. My guess is that a lot of short men need to show off their women to show that they are “just as good” as the tall guys.
Also, I could copy your statement in regards to women and short men and be pretty accurate.
Many women, whether short or tall, don’t generally like short men. Any woman over 5’3 who likes high heels would have to deal with being the same height or taller than you when dressed up. So are you okay with that? If a woman is attractive and has a good personality, why should SHE settle for someone that she doesn’t think is attractive.
And as I said, you’ll always be 5’7…
My point is that if you want to justify/excuse your own shallowness, then don’t try to browbeat women about their own. I don’t care if you can’t control being short. You are short, and you and other short men will be short forever.
As Evan says, you are only as valuable as your options, so don’t get mad when women of all heights don’t write you back. Many of the posters here complain bitterly about the attractive women who won’t respond to them b/c they are short. I hope you don’t get as angry at my response as Tom Pandolfo did when the women pointed out his own hypocrisy (this original post is a few years old I think).
Andrea 369
@JA. In no way did my post even suggest that short guys have to settle. I’m just pointing out that we all discriminate, so don’t argue that you have a right to discriminate but that other people don’t.
I’m going to discriminate based on education, and how I feel that correlates with intelligence. Does that mean that all people who lack a formal education are dumber than those that do? Nope, but it’s just a quick filter.
Some people here claim that they filter based on weight b/c of “activity level.” Again, you don’t know how fit anyone is based on that, but again, if that’s your impression go with it.
You should date whomever you find attractive. If you feel that you’ve “settled” nothing will ever be happy for anyone, esp. if you always feel that you deserved more. But be honest about the fact that you’ll get less responses at 5’7 than you would at 6’2 or even 5’11, and don’t try to convince people that they are making a mistake. That’s as pointless and misguided as me using my own yardstick to tell you what you can get. I don’t know and I don’t care, and you are entitled to try for whatever you want. Just because you have fewer chances at bat doesn’t mean you can’t hit a homerun. Someday.
But why not answer my question? No matter what the reason is for someone’s flaws, and your impression that they can change or not, why do you want to claim that your form of discrimination is more fair that anyone else’s? I just find the argument that some things are a choice to be pretty lame. There are plenty of things that aren’t choices but that are dealbreakers for a lot of people, and no amount of argument is going to change that, so I just think you and everyone else should stop trying to make your case to the people who don’t want you and focus on the ones who do (and I am in no way suggesting that is only “ugly” women by saying that).
Like I said, I’m going to be harsher about the things people can’t change precisely b/c they CANNOT change them. You can’t gain IQ points, or hair, or height.
D 370
I am a short white woman. I’m perfectly fine with short men (and with Asian men).
I want to comment this about weight, though. In *every case*, every person I have ever met online… looked about 20+ pounds heavier in their picture.
These were all current pics. Two men looked more masculine in their photos than they did in real life; in real life, they were quite narrow, with thin faces (I dated one of them anyway; this wasn’t a showstopper, it just points out how the camera can distort). Two men looked fatter in their pictures than they did in real life, and one as it turns out was actually built like a footballer.
Sometimes, the only thing you can really judge from a photo is if the person has a pleasant face… unless the person’s picture is vastly out of date.
Sometimes a profile photo really distorts a person’s appearance.
J.A. 371
andrea- i respect everything you’re saying and in general agree with all of it. i’m not overly picky about who i date- they dont have to look like a supermodel. i actually prefer the cute ‘girl next door’ type over what western society feels is ‘beautiful.’ i can only speak for myself and i never said that my form of discrimination is fairer than yours or anybody else’s. if you wont date a guy who’s less than 6’0”, more power to ya. if i dont want to date a girl who’s fat, more power to me too. we both have the right…even if neither of us are anything special in the looks department ourselves. (not saying you or i is ugly…ive never met you) im probably about a ’7′ and i usually go after girls who are ’7s.’ the real problem to me is people who are a ’5′ going after the ’10s.’ btw…my current gf is 5’5” so when she wears heels she is like an inch or so taller than me and i love it!!!! she doesnt seem to mind either
LD 372
Although I’ve never dated a man shorter than me, I actually prefer a man to be about the same size I am. (5’6″) I just find it really nice to be eye to eye while talking, kissing etc. I have gone out with a couple of men 6’5″ and even almost to 7′, but I always wished they were shorter. I am the exception of my girlfriends though, they always prefer taller men…
brandon 373
i read this article because i am an asian male.
so, i dont get it?
because i am an asian male…i will automatically have a hard time attracting women?
i’m 6’2″, 188 pounds, athletic, white collar professional with a little modeling in my younger days. funny, confident and outgoing…with a dash of asian respect that comes with cultural upbringing.
do you think i have trouble attracting women?
desidude 374
Very interesting discussions and points of view here, let me tell you folks something about myself, I am an Indian man, 27 years old, very athletic, very successful, I am 5’7″, in my shoes, around 5’8″, which is average by North American standards, but good enough by standards of Indian men, so I had no problem anytime getting women back in India, I am also pretty muscular, and very caring, polite and intellectual, traits that women like.
Anyway, I honestly don’t know if American women would give me a chance, I never tried, I have ruled myself out of the dating pool here, I think I would go the arranged marriage route, atleast I would get a woman that would respect me for what I am. Good luck to you all
Bznik 375
I feel your pain, I get discriminated against because I am the same height as a supermodel and I would date a guy who was reasonably short but your just freakishly short, good luck though. I don’t think your good enough hopefully you willl find some women with “lower standards” The point is why consider the body parts people are born with so important. You could miss out on the relationship of a lifetime the person you were truly meant to be because he was born a certain way. As if that was a fault like for instance having a drug addiction or a criminal record. Women are so quick to accuse men of being shallow and obsessed with looks or youth or sex. How is having a height preference any better than guys who like “big tits” or say I am only interested in “hot” chicks? The older I get the more I realize the ideal that women are somehow the less shallow sex aren’t true at all.
desidude 376
@Andrea:
Your responses reek of a heightist factor in your selection of men, and you saying that it’s justified for women to pick a man based on his height just like how a man justifies picking a woman based on her weight doesn’t make sense, because firstly, weight can be lost, a fat woman can become slim by doing more exercise and controlling her diet, in short, self discipline can change the way a woman might look, unless you are in the tiny minority of genetically affected species who can do nothing about their weight, but then we are talking about the majority of the women who are overweight by their own choice.
But when it comes to short men, they aren’t short by choice, they are short because of the way nature intended them to be so, so discriminating against shorter men justifying fallacial reasons is nothing but extremely shallow behavior on part of the women. So if a woman says that she is rejecting someone solely because of her height, that’s nothing but being shallow, insecure, and having a lot of self esteem issues. You justify your stance saying that most women whether short or tall dislike short men, but then you fail to provide reasons for the same. It’s understandable if a woman who is really tall rejecting a guy because he is really short, in terms of evolution, men have always been taller than their women, but then a really short woman rejecting a man because he is not a foot or more taller than her reeks of nothing but bias, and the idea that the man is nothing more than a sex toy or a sexual fantasy to her. Justifying that by saying that she wants to wear heels and yet look a foot shorter than the man implies that the woman is extremely prejudiced and has huge inferiority complex issues. Justifying that by saying they are protected by taller men again doesn’t make any sense, just the way the evolutionary thing about taller men being better protectors has been proven to be devoid of any logic.
So all in all, when men are being picky, i.e., stating that they wouldn’t want to go after overweight/out of shape women, they are being logical, but when short women state that they would only consider taller men as they can protect them better, they are totally devoid of logic and any semblance of rationality, which implies that women are the most shallow when it comes to matters of dating. Also, in the society where I come from, height is not a deal breaker, men are not just sex toys and giant poles to lean on, they are considered to have a mind and a personality, I think this North American obsession with heightism and the associated bias is the leading cause of the decline in society and the family structure, look at the other cultures where height is considered one of the important traits but not a deal breaker, look at the divorce rates and the happiness index of families, they are much better off than USA. At this rate, most shallow women in USA would end up being single or in abusive relationships, and because that includes most women in US, the society is degenerating at the rate it is right now, more and more divorces, and unhappy old single men and women. Time for the women of this society to re evaluate their stance and their stupidity on a lot of important issues like the heightist discrimination mentioned above.
Chelsea 377
I generally try not to go for very skinny guys for the same reason. I want to feel small next to my man. I know I’m not a big person, just blessed with beautiful curves.
Despite my love for my body if I hug a man and I’m bigger it makes me feel insecure. Not to mention when I’m in bed and my man towers over me it’s such a turn on.
Garfield 378
Let the short black guy talk now. First of all I’m 5’5, Jamaican/Canadian. In my experiences, women are a whole lot more shallow and insecure than men. First of all, they wear the makeup, they wear the high heels, they’re the ones who demand the guys half a foot or more taller than they are to date, and they’re the ones always pre-occupied by MTV, hollywood and what the current rules are for the red carpet. Most men don’t care about all the superficial BS. Women live to be accepted by society in order to feel better about themselves. If it means wearing makeup, putting on heels to stand taller than everyone else, yet always needing to be shorter than her man, that should tell you about her self-confidence. I’m attracted to confident, educated women, short and tall who don’t need to follow the quirks of society but makes judgments about her life using what God gave her. Eyes, ears, mouth and a brain. Unfortunately there are too few of these types of quality ladies and it’s just really sad. Enough modern women totally lack the ability to make sound rational decisions for themselves without running to every girlfriend for a second or third opinion who thinks exactly the same way she does. It’s like the same people making the same mistakes in life over and over and over again because they go back to the same source for inspiration, over and over and over again. People here talk about Napoleon Syndrome? Sounds like a cheap excuse for taller women to hate on short men who go for after what they want in life. Well let’s just say there’s no shortage of women with Tall-Woman-Syndrome. Silliness like this exists because taller people, women in general, feel the need to protect or defend themselves from the ridicule that society places on short men.
Gina 379
I don’t feel sexy with a shorter guy. I don’t care how good looking you are and were the richest guy in the world, it’s just embarrassing to me to be with a short guy. Does not turn me on the least bit. I am 5’5″ and like to wear 4″- 5″ heels. My boyfriend says he is 5’11 (but I think more like 5’10..lol) So even me wearing heels around him just making me his height, I sometimes feel awkward. I tend to wear flats around him cuz I feel protected and comfortable and I seem to get more attention and affection from him too…lol I prefer 6 ft and taller, but “settled” for my guy cuz he’s good looking and sexy…but 5’10 is the “shortest” I will go…so he just made the cut…lol
Karl R 380
Gina said: (#379)
“I don’t feel sexy with a shorter guy. [...] it’s just embarrassing to me to be with a short guy.”
Let’s imagine that five years from now your boyfriend dumps you, because you’ve become too old.
You no longer turn him on. He finds it awkward and embarassing to be seen with a woman who is that age. He doesn’t feel masculine when he’s with a woman who is that old. He intends to go find a woman who is younger, who will make him feel masculine, confident and sexy when he’s with her.
If your boyfriend did this, you’d probably think that he was overwhelmingly insecure, and a miserable excuse for a man. A real man can feel masculine and confident when he’s taking his grandmother out to a restaurant. A real man wouldn’t need a younger woman to prop up his fragile self esteem.
I’m taller than your boyfriend, but I still wouldn’t want to date someone with your mindset. I want to date the woman who knows she’s sexy … even if she’s out with a man who is 4’6″.
Large size woman 381
I LOVE reading that it’s ok to filter against weight – because weight is a choice – but that it’s inappropriate to filter against height because height is not a choice.
There’s more than a whiff of “fat woman are not deserving – they haven’t done the work” in several of the author’s articles and posters responses.
Short men are not getting ”a fair shake” from women. Meaning what – women have some obligation to ‘be fair’ and give short men a chance?
The way it plays out in real life is – reactions to both are pretty similar. Actually less so. Short men have more takers than overweight women.
There are petite women who are happily paired with shorter men.
I came to terms years ago with the fact that “people want what they want” – there’s no question of fair or unfair. I’m not ‘entitled to a significant other.
All you’re really saying is you’re more entitled to sympathy.
starthrower68 382
@ Large Size Woman, I am on the plus size side myself. I too get that people want what they want and it is what it is. I don’t know about you, but given that fact, if I find someone fine, if not fine. I’m a complete person either way and have a pretty good life. Sure, I can and should loose weight, but I’ll do that for myself. Getting a date isn’t really a motivator for me.
Terri 383
Mmmm….I am going out with a shortish man – 5’7″. He is quite well built, but he still looks short. I struggled with this at first until my friend said from her experience sex can be great with a short guy. So I went for it and she was right. I’m not tall – 5’4″, and so, in the act, we kinda ‘fit’ together well. There’s more room for athleticism or something. It’s more cuddly. It just works. This guy has a black belt in karate and is very handy and brainy so he is helpful in many ways. But to be honest, earlier in my life when I wanted an attractive handbag I would not have chosen a short man.
Terri 384
I can understand why women want to feel protected by a tall man despite no need these days. It’s hardwired into us, similar to the fact that men are more attracted to youthful blondes with big breasts (because it is easier to tell when a full-busted blonde has aged – fair skin gets wrinkly and big boobs droop). So guys, please, you have to just live with it. It is what it is. I was once a small breasted brunette and just had to live with it. It didn’t mean I lacked dates. Quite the contrary. Statistics are rarely accurate when applied to real people and not globally.
Cat 385
According to Gallup, the happiest man in America is “a tall, Asian-American, observant Jew who is at least 65 and married, has children, lives in Hawaii, runs his own business and has a household income of more than $120,000 a year.”
Terri 386
Just a few notes from my professional experience in the dating
industry.
Several years ago, I owned and operated a brick and mortar dating service in the southeastern US. As a professional matchmaker (IMO one of the hardest jobs in the world), I found that one of my most popular clients was an Asian woman. She was not particularly attractive and in fact, was not very feminine. She had her pick of Caucasian men.
One of my male clients, an attractive, average height Asian man, only wanted to date white women. Could not find a match for him.
Heavy men would NOT date heavy women and were very critical of them.
One of my handsome clients who was quite wealthy with a great personality was only 5’3″. He was in great shape as well. I could not find a match for him because as soon as the women found out his height, they refused any contact.
One of my most popular clients was an attractive 35 year old woman whose photo showed her sitting in a chair at a sporting event. Even though most men thought she was sitting in a wheel chair (not) , they were still willing to date her. (Which I thought was great…)
Amita 387
Have you noticed how men don’t feel the need to justify their physical preferences at all, yet women do? If a man will only date petite women, he does not feel the need to apologize, explain or tell anyone that it is because he may be insecure, yet over and over I read the women talking about their own preferences being due to insecurities.
So it’s OK for men to have physical preferences, yet women should not care? Come on! There’s a lot of double standards, and what is most disturbing is the complete lack of unity or loyalty among us women. THAT is what I’m getting from this discussion, not whether you are attracted to a person with purple polka dots!
P.S. If you’ve ever been discriminated against based on your race/gender/religion, you would understand what feeling truly rejected means. None of the above can compare.
Sayanta 388
To Amita’s “PS” #387- amen…
Molly 389
Actually, I must say that as a very petite woman (4’10″), I prefer dating shorter guys. I have dated men as tall as 5’10″, but anything taller and it just feels awkward. Hang in there, men, there are women like me out there who do appreciate AND PREFER a shorter man!
Marilia 390
Hi..I am Mexican and pettite so I love short or pettite men too !! because when we dance our bodys are together …
jaenus 391
Ok here’s an interesting one:
I am also very forgetful and I am not romantic enough (I am trying!).
I am a 5’4″ 33 year old man. I am in shape, but I don’t have massive muscles or anything. I’m just in good shape. I am also very successful, funny, and smart. I am VERY stubborn and i talk WAY too much (I get into trouble because of that). However, I am also very caring with my women!
About 10 years ago, I realized the height thing was going to be a big problem. I think this in itself made me come too strong to women. Long story short, I dated a girl who was 5’6″ or 5’7″ (I forget). We talked about the height issue about 1 year into our relationship. She wasn’t sure how important this was going to be for her. Eventually it became a non-issue. We had a great time together and we didn’t think about height. I moved and the long distance thing didn’t work for me. I broke it off. I just said the distance was not going to work for me.
That relationship made the difference in the world in my life. I don’t care about my height. That’s not to say that I don’t believe it doesn’t matter that I am 5’4″. I know that 19 out of 20 women won’t go for me. I am picky as well. I figure it will just be tougher to find the 1 out of 20 that does not care about height. I don’t think about my height when I meet a girl and I think that’s the reason they don’t think about my height when I meet them. I don’t go for girls taller than 5’7″. It’s a bit difficult to surprise them with a kiss if they are too much taller! haha.
Honestly, I’m not here to change girls. I can say that if the girl thinks my height could possibly not be an issue and goes out with me, it will definitely not be an issue. I am on dating sites. I KNOW more girls would respond my messages if I was 5’9″. Still, a girl usually agrees to go out with me about once a week. At that point, I know height will not be an issue. Once I meet them, I can confidently say that things have not worked out for reasons OTHER than my height. In fact, I recently met a 5’5″ beautiful woman who wants to be with me (I did not meet her online).
Anyways, my point is that I am not a hater. I don’t hate girls who won’t go out with me because I am short. I think they are missing out on me.
Finally, as discussed before, I don’t want to be with someone taller than 5’8″. I don’t expect them to be interested in me. I like being affectionate with my girlfriend. It’s easier to be affectionate with someone who is about as tall as you are.
Isobel 392
Let’s not forget Dudley Moore, who at 5ft 2.5″ was a shorter than his wife Tuesday Weld. Also Rod Stewart, whose 6ft tall wife towers over him. Nicole Kidman is taller than her ex Tom Cruise .. etc etc.
I agree though, it’s unusual and it’s a cultural stereotype for the man to be the big strong protector and the woman to be tiny and childlike in comparison.
How do men feel if their partner is taller than they are?
ruby 393
I’ve got a few things to say on this subject…
#1 I am a female sports fan, and I know very well that height very often makes a difference in a man’s athletic abilities. Google some professional baseball, basketball, football, or hockey rosters and look at the players heights.
I don’t think the owners of those teams are paying out big saleries on the PERCEPTION that taller men are better athletes. There are exceptions of course, but the gaps on those rosters once you go lower than 6′ are telling.
#2 Insecure males bully their peers into a “group think” situation because they don’t want their perception of beauty, politics, or anything challenged.
As a full figured woman I have had several guys tell me that they are so desperate to have sex with a full figured woman and can’t stand the thin wife or girlfriend they parade around for their friends approval.
I politely tell them that the only thing stoping them from being with the kind of woman they want to be with is THEM and their fear of what their friends will say.
#3 What is fat and what is thin? Part of the mystique of eating disorders is perfectly fit women convinced that they are fat.
Every woman in the entertainment industry is told “just 5 more pounds, just loose 5 more pounds and you’ll be perfect”
#4 I do like short guys when they show that they are just as good as tall guys. I admire those guys that don’t let their height stop them from joining the army or beooming a firefighter.
#5 Those people that said that height can’t be changed are right. So a woman better be sure that a mans height isn’t a problem for her when she gets involved with him otherwise she probably shouldn’t bother dating a short guy.
#6 Who are we kidding? Most of us wouldn’t date a person in a wheelchair. It just seems more justafiable to say such things about fat people because “they did it to themselves”. And that excuse sounds so sophomoric anyways.
Barbara 394
I actually prefer men that are on the short side. My ex is 5’10″ and I used to wish he were shorter so I could kiss him WITHOUT standing on my tiptoes.
Bee 395
Only a stupid woman looking for a good man…. Would strike a guy from the ” potential great date” list, due to his height !!
Unfortunately…There are many unreasonable, silly, stupid women out there.
Which is why they end up repeatedly dating taller, awful men… While passing over/looking down their noses at FAB not so tall men!
Grow up ladies!!
I have found that great men, ( YES, ladies some are short!) make terrific boyfriends and appreciate me more. They really pay attention!!
Try them!!
Stop sitting home alone, whining about being dateless.
Carrie 396
I’m 5’2 and I’ve dated shorter men and taller men. It didn’t matter to me how tall they were as long as they weren’t jerks, but I do remember dating one man who was 5’6 and admittedly obsessed with taller women. He dumped me for a woman who was 5’8! :)
Now I’m married to a man who’s 6′.
Just me 397
My gosh there are a lot of responses to this one. I wanted to respond because I am someone who actually prefers a guy to be close to my height, and I am pretty darn short at 5’3″. I cannot stand the sense that someone is towering over me at all. That to me is just creepy and doesn’t make me feel protected at all. Of course I don’t want to tower over the guy either! What I personally want is for their lips to be near my level and for everything to fit. LOL
Horace 398
I find it interesting how an aggresive, no-nonsense, take charge short guy gets stamped with short-man-syndrome or Napoleon complex while a tall guy who behaves exactly the same is labelled ambitious, enterprising and courageous. All this tells me is that our society still feels a tremendous amount of hatred for short guys. Short guys shouldn’t be allowed to live as normal people or be granted the same opportunities as tall men. Thankfully I’ve been raised to ignore this kind of BS and live my life. Why should I be denied the same opportunities that tall guys have and in some cases handed to them daily?
You know what, I demand the women I date be no taller than 5’10 and no shorter than 5’8. She must have DD breasts at bare minimum, 40+ inch hips and a waist no bigger than 28 inches. She also must have long black hair and wear a size 10 shoe. Gee, I sound like the biggest male chauvinistic asshole right? I don’t think my expectations are unrealistic considering women demand that men be “6 feet at minimum or taller than me in my 4 inch heels, must be good looking enough to show off to my girlfriends, must have a hot body with cut abs and he absolutely can’t have a small penis.”
This is the problem with western society. Mate selection is indirectly controlled by Hollywood and pop culture. It has nothing to do with the content of ones character or the size of ones heart. It has everything to do with how good a person makes “me” look and what this person does to make others around me feel that I’m good looking.
I strongly believe that a woman’s need to feel alot smaller and daintier than her man brings an unhealthy and dangerous pedophilic element to adult sexual relationships. It’s a disturbing thought considering women have long fought for equality with men yet these same guys are often forced to take on a daddy role in a relationship. Not all girls feel this way and some are very mature with a natural preference for bigger guys. I’m OK with that. Do tall women feel the same way about dating much shorter guys, having the “mommy” complex? You bet cha! Insecure tall women who let their heels and the red carpet dicate their life. Modern, educated tall women know that a man is a man is a man no matter how tall or short he is. If she’s got issues dating a shorter guy only to feel like a mom or a sister with her baby brother, she’s got issues herself and there’s nothing healthy about that.
One solution for short guys. Get out of North America and don’t limit yourself to the women on this continent. Go to Europe, South America, Asia, or the Middle East. Women from these parts of the world care a lot less about height and are much more open to dating shorter guys. There’s nothing wrong with extreme height differences on both sides as long as their are two adults who love and care about each as people first.
BK 399
A lot of the responses complain about how short men get a raw deal or how unfair it is for overweight women, but I’ve found from my own personal experiences that a man’s weight is most important.
I’m a man, 6’2″, and overweight, and no woman has ever accepted a date with me. I’m batting .000 for life. When I say I’m overweight, I mean I’m more like Craig Robinson than Chris Farley, which is to say I’m less a couch potato and more a manly-built guy. My friends always joke that I’m their bodyguard. However, despite all the responses that women like a bigger man to make them feel dainty, it just isn’t the truth based on what I’ve seen.
My 5’7″, 130 pound male friends have women lined up to get with them, but I’m pretty sure no woman has ever been attracted to me. Take a look at the “ideal” men for women today. If you’re a 13 year old girl, you’re ideal boy is Justin Bieber. If you’re a 23 year old woman, your ideal man is Robert Pattinson. If you’re a 33 year old woman, your ideal man is Johnny Depp. (This is based on what society and Hollywood push.) All three of these men are skinny…really skinny.
Losing weight is extremely difficult for me. My 130 pound friends who work at fast food places and eat that greasy crap all day have no trouble staying skinny while I eat less than 1000 calories a day and often work out for four hours. It doesn’t make any sense, and it’s completely unfair. I’ve been attracted to women of all shapes and sizes, and I’ve asked women out who vary greatly in their physical attributes. I’ve always been considered a funny guy (that’s part of coping with being a fat kid) and intellectual (while my friends are out having sex with women, I’m probably reading), but that doesn’t matter. Personally, I believe a man’s looks are a much bigger deal in the dating world than a woman’s looks are.
m 400
@Horace -
You said
“I strongly believe that a woman’s need to feel alot smaller and daintier than her man brings an unhealthy and dangerous pedophilic element to adult sexual relationships”
Well, I agree with the effect. I wonder, however, if you’ve considered the possibility the need may be the *man’s*, rather than the woman’s.
In all my observations of my taller ladyfriends — and I’m not short; I’m 5’6″ — and their interactions with shorter (not *short*, mind you, just shortER) men — the problem is *not* that the taller ladies won’t give men shorter than them a chance.
The problem is that the shorter men won’t ask out the taller women.
ShortGirl 401
I like short guys. I like Asian guys. Hugely overweight guys; not so much. But because they are unhealthy and usually can’t be too active. Older guys? If they’re young at heart and active, it’s all good. If you go by looks alone, you’re as shallow as a puddle.
5F7I 402
My boyfriend is 5’3″ and I am 5’7″. I used to date taller man but unfortunately there is no chemistry. It takes courage, confidence & intelligence for a man to date a taller woman – and that is more important than if he’s taller or not. I find shorter man to be more intelligent, witty and better lovers….
This. 403
#387 Thank you!!
Josh 404
I can understand woman wanting their men to be taller, but have some realistic expectations. if you are 5’0 and expect your man to be 6’0 is idiotic.
starthrower68 405
Hot damn! This video shows us we all have a fighting chance!
http://www.theonion.com/video/national-dating-standards-lowered,20647/
Susan 406
Evan, I did what you asked and agreed to go out with 2 different short guys last week. Both said they were 5’6″ (I’m 5’4″), one was my height, one was actually 5’6″. Both had incredible chips on their shoulders. I have never been in a relationship with a guy under 6′ tall, and I’m sticking to it. Men have enough issues I have to deal with, and I’m not going to go for an egomaniac with an inferiority complex about his lack of stature. Short guys seem like they have to compensate for their height with increased arrogance, bad attitudes and the like. No thanks.
Evan Marc Katz 407
Clearly Susan, if two short men had chips on their shoulders, then every single man under 5’9″ must also have a chip on his shoulder as well.
Thanks for the lesson in logic.
Good luck with the 15% of men who are over 6 feet tall!
Kenley 408
Starthrower,
That video was too darn funny! I loved it. I guess there is hope for us all. Although my recent string of dates has me doubting it!
starthrower68 409
@ Kenley #408,
We need to inject a bit of levity into this discourse every now and then. We can take it too seriously at times!
Josh 410
The other thing I’ve noticed is that most people are really bad at judging height in real life. I list my height as 5’10 online, but when woman meet me they all say I look like im 6′.
Goldie 411
@ Susan #406, I just had the opposite experience. I actually went out with a short guy by accident – he listed his height as 5’8″, I’m a quarter inch short of 5’9″, so I figured we’re pretty much the same height, no big deal! Well I didn’t measure him, so don’t have an accurate number, but I’m pretty sure he stood no taller than 5’6″ in his 1.5-inch heel cowboy boots. But you know what? He was smart, he was funny, we spent six hours together on the first date and had a blast – could’ve gone longer but it was getting late – had a very cool makeout session in the empty parking lot. I was totally willing to see him again. He’s the one that didn’t call back. Bummer, but at least I got a valuable lesson out of it – I won’t pass over a guy just because of his height, even if he’s shorter than me by a few inches. Heck, I’ve been 5’9″ since I was 12 years old, I’m used to towering over people
I’ve always gone out with guys 6′ and higher, what can I tell you – they have issues and chips on their shoulders just like everyone else. Woman cannot live by her man’s height alone
Zaq 412
@ Susan #406
Better to have loved a SHORT man than nevar to have loved a TALL
Kay 413
I’m 5’2″. I’ve had a long term relationship with a guy who said he was 5’4″. He honestly seemed to be my height, but whatever. It didn’t matter–he was also bald. He weighed less than I did, which was mildly dispiriting, but overall, I loved it. I’d date a guy who was anything down to 5′. Anything under that I think I’d have to think about–but if they guy was awesome? Hell, I’d go out with him.
I agree with some of what others have said. Confidence is sexy. Bald men who admit they’re bald are hot. Short is fine, just don’t lie about it (a guy I dated recently put himself down as 5′ 6″ and was clearly shorter than I am–his height was not the issue, just the fact that he was either lying in his profile or lying to himself).
I admit, we’re shallow. But it’s not like we’ve got the market cornered. Try being a woman with a few extra pounds. I guarantee you I could do the exact same experiment with my profile by taking 20 pounds off my weight–and I’m not even overweight.
Miriam 414
It’s funny because I also used to only want taller guys (i’m 5’4″ 31 yr old female). Long story short, I met a 5’9″ guy and decided to give him a try. Guess what, it’s pure superficiality to want someone for their height, etc.
I like his size now, he is sturdy enough and is more than just “height”, he’s a person!!! Hellooo, what’s wrong with us??!!
Sonja 415
I am 5’2″, female, and I’ve dated men from 5’3″ to 6’8″. I love tall men, but I don’t pursue them, for the most part, they’ve chosen me. The most unforgettable attraction was to the MAN, not boy, who was 5’3″. At the ripe old age of 42, I felt an immediate, visceral attraction to him across a parking lot. He apparently felt the same too, because after the meeting that we both attended, he wasted no time catching up with me and walking me out to my car, asking for my number, and calling me. Pure animal magnetism. This man turned out to be quite the player and I moved on, but he underwent a process of personal transformation and we are still friends. I’ve never felt such an immediate attraction before and haven’t since, but this man was my “type” regardless of his height.
Some of the positives qualities that I enjoyed about him was his charisma, dancing ability, good looks, and his macho swagger. The fact that I could look him in the eye and kiss him instead of standing on the bed as I’ve had to in the past with extremely tall men was an additional bonus. I was the shortest woman that he had ever dated, with most of his past girlfriends and an ex-wife standing averaging 5’7″. Clearly, this man suffered from no inability to attract women and proved that whether you think you can or you can’t, you’re right.
What I will probably never experience again is kneeling down in front of him while he was seated and the shock of having him bend over, dead lift me and throw me on the bed. Imagine the rest. I am no slip of a girl, and he wore a small men’s size, so there was little disparity in our weight, but his physical strength was amazing. It’s no surprise that his lifelong nickname was “Herculito.” I saw him again recently, and he had gained weight, but could never be called fat. He complained of weighing 200lb., but you’d never guess it. Hugging him was truly like hugging a brick house. He told me over and over that I had no idea how physically strong I am as well, and he loved my assertive personality to match. No one intimidates me, although I might be accused of intimidating some men.
If only I could find a man with his personality, good looks, and strength combined with character, intelligence and success. I wouldn’t care if he was a dwarf.
Bald? Sexy if you can pull it off. Short? Bring it on if everything else is equal. Fat? Now that’s something I can’t deal with. A man has to be able to lead so that I can follow, and he can’t lead me if he’s sitting on the couch. I’ve enjoyed reading through the comments. It really all boils down to the fact that we have no control over who and what we’re attracted to. Love the people that love you and quit worrying about all the rest.
Bluebell 416
some short men are their worst enemy, people ake them feel small(no pun intented) so they bring out the Napolean complex! Short men who I have met assume and voiced that I would do better with a tall guy, that is they will express that I go for guys who are 6’2/3 without me bringing up that in conversation. They have unspoken low self esteem about their height and use over poweing voice, confidence to cover there lack. You also hear them before you see them, in my opinion!
Olivia 417
I love short guys. I like guys of all heights. My boyfriend is 6’0, but I was more attracted to my ex who is 5’6. He is still single, but he is so confident and sexy I don’t think he has any trouble getting dates. Which is pretty much why we didn’t last long.
So even though height isn’t an issue for me, I’m attracted to some guys, and some guys I am just not attracted to and I don’t know the reason. And if I’m not attracted to a guy, even if he’s conventionally good looking, no amount of reasoning is going to change that. So I don’t think there’s anything to be done about women who only like tall guys. But in case anyone ever reads this I’d like to give it a shot.
1) I don’t think there’s anything sexier than a man who’s at the same eye level as me. (I’m 5’5, but eye level can range from 5’4 – 5’7) It just makes for a much stronger connection somehow.
2) I loved how I could wear his shirts. Not just around the house, but out in public!
3) There’s no height in bed. You’re horizontal. Same when you’re sitting on the couch. Sometimes your head is on his chest, sometimes his is on yours.
Bluebell 418
I’m 5’6” and have dated men a 5’5 to 6′ tall. I have no problem in dating men shorter than me, what will bother me is their attitude or prospects in life! I dont think it boils down to height hen choosing a man for life. Look at examples like Al Pacino, Tom Cruise, Danny DeVito and Jamie Cullum who have all been with taller women. They are successful and live fulfilling lives. If a short man can be in love with me and I in him, then who am I to say no!
lynne 419
Bottom line, I think we care more about what OTHER people think of the guy we’re with than what we think of him. That’s the sad truth. We are afraid of being teased or being criticized for looking like an odd couple. But I know that if we are just confident the people who matter won’t care at all.
Julie Robinson 420
I had to write about this same topic myself because it’s just so pervasive (I included bigger women into the mix, too). I wish I could be less shallow and date shorter men . . . . but so far I haven’t been able to. I’d love to hear who has. I have a poll at http://thewhatnotblog.blogspot.com where you can vote anonymously about this topic. Check it out and let me know if you agree or not.
starthrower68 421
I decided, that for myself, it would best to take a break from trying to get a date and focus on losing weight and getting in better shape. It’s not an issue of self-esteem, but of having the discipline to stick with it even when I don’t feel like it. Since dating can cause emotions to go back-and-forth, I feel that to be successful, I need to use my mental and emotional energy to focus on my goal. It’s also about knowing that I’m internally motivated and not looking to lose weight for external reasons.
Horace 422
@m
You know why some short guys don’t go chatting up the tall ladies? It’s simple. Tall ladies are often the cruelest, meanest and nastiest of all women. It has nothing to do with physical appearance but everything to do with personality. I sometimes wonder if it’s a competition between short and tall girls to see who can embarrass the short guy, make him feel like he’s absolutely worthless and shatter his confidence all in the same sequence. There are women in this world who take great pride in hurting the short guys feelings because they truly get a kick out of it. I’ve experienced this first hand and it has only made me tougher, harder and sometimes heavily guarded against all women. I’m still a positive, friendly, outgoing person but very careful who I talk to. I believe if a woman likes what she sees in me, she’ll get my attention and I’ll follow it up by making conversation with her. Trouble is, women rarely like what they see in a 5’5 guy. Short guys aren’t visually stimulating to women unless he’s in shape, got muscles and can look the part of being a good protector.
Do you truly want to know where the saying “Napoleon Syndrome” comes from? It comes from heightist women who expect short men to be submissive weaklings that have no business in dating or relationships. Frankly, I think the women who get annoyed and feel insulted when short guys approach them wished these guys were all gay so they can pay more attention to attracting the taller guy they’ve got their eyes on. The moment a short guy goes agressively after what he wants in life, his aggresion and confidence is measured against taller men who really don’t have to do anything to attract women because their tallness gets them in the door at first sight. So a short guy who takes the initiative in life gets wrongly labelled as a Napoleanic freak just because he doesn’t want to left life pass him by.
I do agree with you to a certain extent that a man’s problem with taller women is his problem because he’s been programmed to believe that being taller than the woman is the norm and it’s more masculine. Just like women are programmed to believe that tall, dark and handsome is the standard for quality in men. This way of thinking doesn’t apply to me because I don’t equate my level of manhood by virtue of the woman I’m standing next to. In fact, I like taller ladies but you are right, I will admit to avoiding them because a short guy like me can only take so much embarrassment, rejection and ridicule from them. So with that being said, I strongly encourage the tall girls of the world to prove me wrong, be first to talk to a shorter guy and not focus so much on the tall guys who refuse to date you because you’re so tall. Short guys like me appreciate you and like you. I just won’t go out of my way to make your acquaintance because western culture says your more likely to shoot me down in flames.
Robin 423
My boyfriend is “short” AND ASIAN!!!!!!! I LOVE HIIIIIIMMMM!!!
(We are the same height and i weigh MORE than him!!!) 
sandy 424
There is something very inexplainably sexy about a tall stature in a man! I have previously have always dated men at least 6foot2…one was 6foot5 and he was irresistable.
My current partner is the same height as me, relatively short/average, and i am very much in love with him and attracted to him. I do sometimes find myself admiring a tall man though hehe.
ShortGuy 425
I’m a 5’5, in shape, and 130 soaking wet guy. I’m funny, smart, a good dancer, have a post grad degree and a good job. A lot of women overlooked me b/c of my height at different stages in my life. I could blame this on a number of things, but the main differentiator between women liking me more often vs less often was my own self-confidence.
This confidence is unfortunately more difficult to gain for a shorter man, as you generally have to outperform taller men to ‘get the girl’ b/c all things being equal women will of course choose the taller man.
And yes, women assume you have a small penis when you are short. They have said things to this effect to me on a number of occasions. This factored into me believing I had a small penis myself for years. I lost my virginity relatively late in life. When I did, I realized that a) I’m good in bed and b) I actually have a large penis (I’m not saying these two things are related). Despite the ‘short short man’ comments made to me, my penis is in fact in the 95th percentile in girth and 80th percentile in length – (actual studies on penis size – http://www.mraverage.com).
The second largest factor on whether or not women are into me is how secure the women are in themselves. An insecure woman will not have the confidence to date someone who is different then the superficial societal ideal. There is a white (I am white) North American culture factor here too. I have found non-white or non-north american women more into me, on average. Currently I am in a serious relationship with a great woman who is not white.
Good luck. Hope this helps someone.
Grace B. 426
I’m a pixy 4’9 female and I’ll date tall AND short. People have so much to offer….so if a woman eliminates a guy for being too “short”, she’s probably not worth dating anyway – too superficial. Kind, smart and funny are all pluses in my book. So long as you don’t fall short in those character traits, we could be a match
amber 427
Sorry, to be harsh,
Physical compatability is just as important. I’ll hazard a guess that the perception is there that if they are smaller in that area, they will most likely be in other areas……
Now that not might be true, or scientifially accurate. But that is a barrier to break down on a base level.
David 428
I say simply this: Be happy with who you are, have a strong inner frame (mindset), always work to improve yourself (exercise, study, etc), and do not let external forces (such as the opinions or hangups of others) alter your inner core – your foundational beliefs and the good way you treat others. Be polite without being a “nice guy,” be tough without being arrogant, be ready to fight to defend yourself or another but don’t pick a fight, have a sense of humor but never at anyone’s expense, and relax and enjoy life. Be willing to look beneath the surface. People get old; looks change, hair falls out or turns grey; if you like/love what’s beneath, inside, you’ll still be in good shape. Don’t dismiss a man because he’s not 6’5″; don’t dismiss a woman because she doesn’t have a double-D chest size. It’s been my experience that it’s not the loud-mouth, insecure man who always brags and acts tough that you don’t want to mess with, it’s the well-mannered, confident man who doesn’t act like a big shot or mess with anyone, that is a real warrior when the situation calls for it. Height has no relation to that at all. My grandfather (God rest his soul) was 5’4″ but was a solid rock of a man who fought in the Korean War and could lift a full-size refrigerator on his back and carry it across the house (I saw him do it once). You definitely didn’t want to try to mess him over; he was a man’s man and popular with the ladies, and people called him “Nick.” I’ve known taller guys who would scatter when danger approached and shorter guys who stayed and defended and met the danger head-on. Be happy with who you are, remember that all kinds of people have their own beliefs and hangups. You can’t use logic, debate, or argument to convince a person who just isn’t attracted to small/tall/overweight/underweight/black hair/brown hair/ etc to be attracted to you if you’re one of those things, so don’t waste you’re time trying. Also, some people are shallow and there’s nothing you can do about that; they just have to (hopefully) mature with time.
If a woman does not give you the time of day just because of your height, then don’t give it a second thought. There are millions of women in this world. Just read the posts in this topic; many women actually prefer shorter guys.
One thing this post proves is that there is no universal pattern; some women prefer tall guys, some prefer short; some men prefer tall women or ones with certain other features, etc. Should I stop eating vanilla ice-cream because thousands of other people prefer strawberry or chocolate? Be who you are without apology, respect yourself fully, and accept no less from others, no matter who they are. Men, no woman is out of your league; ladies, no man is out of your league.
Some of you are missing out on fabulous experiences and terrific lovemaking and great dates because you are dismissing people right off the bat due to height, hair color, type of job, etc. I was in a place where that happened a lot, it was called high school. Time to grow up, look deeper. I’m either preaching to the choir or a wall, probably.
Love and respect yourself, do the same for others. Men, treat all ladies with respect, not just the “10s” you want to take home that night. Ladies, treat all men with respect, not just the Johnny Depps and the 6’10s. You can’t complain about not having a meaningful connection with a man when you are being shallow about putting-off a man who doesn’t meet your height expectations.
When I was younger (I’m 5’6″ if it’s any of your business), I used to feel uptight about my height. Now, at 40, I feel great and I like and love who I am, not because of some mind trick to convince myself to like what I cannot change anyway, but I really like who I am and my height. I have a lower center of gravity, which makes me more steady on my feet (and harder to knock down), and people (including ladies) are more comfortable with talking to me at a smaller personal space. Taller people have to maneuver around and keep a greater distance when speaking to you so as to not feel like they’re crowding you, sometimes. Since most ladies are under 6′ tall, I can look at them at a more eye-level, not down on them.
Just remember this, a shorter man or a woman with a smaller chest size or who doesn’t look like a swimsuit model might actually be a bundle of fire and passion waiting to be unleashed, and a loving and faithful heart, but you’ll miss it if you are superficial.
As for me, I’ve said enough. I’m moving on, and wish everyone the best. To those who said that they would want a tall man because they don’t want short children, I say you have just insulted everyone who is not considered tall, including probably your own grandfather or uncle. You same women who say this would be agast if a man said he didn’t want to get with you if you were heavy because he didn’t want his children to be overweight.
Jadafisk 429
“You can’t complain about not having a meaningful connection with a man when you are being shallow about putting-off a man who doesn’t meet your height expectations.”
Does this go for women who prefer short men, as well? I’ve definitely excluded men (possibly perfectly fine otherwise) who didn’t meet arbitrary definitions of cuteness, kissability and approachability that were height-determined, just in the other direction.
“Do you truly want to know where the saying “Napoleon Syndrome” comes from?”
It comes from the same place that both genders are usually coming from when they express concern about the health of a fat prospective partner while dating people who smoke and drink to excess or eat copious amounts of junk food while remaining thin. People want post hoc justifications for excluding people that they’re less attracted to.
Vicki 430
Women who like Latin or Italian men are fully aware that most are shorter than average.
Tom should play up the Italian side of being short. One of my friends met a short Italian guy online, and completely lost her mind over him. He had a bunch of issues (unrelated to being short or Italian) that made him SO not good boyfriend material, but what it boils down to is a short Italian guy who looks sort of young for his age probably won’t have too much trouble getting a girlfriend, if he’s seeking out women who prefer Italian men anyway.
I rode out the recession of 1990 by going to grad school and getting an MA in Spanish. (Yes, I know, not the best choice of majors!) Most of the graduate students in my department were female, single, and definitely shopping around for Latin American boyfriends, and height was NEVER a consideration.
Possibly Tom’s local university has an Italian department? Maybe he could sign up for classes. Most of the TA’s will be women, I can pretty much guarantee.
I am 5’3″. My personal experience is that while I can get dates with men who are under 6′, men over 6′ generally treat me with more respect. Taller men apparently see me as this petite, delicate creature. I think I make them feel more masculine. The closer a man is to my height, the less considerate is his behavior towards me (or such has been my experience so far). It could be because I am a firstborn child, so I’m pretty used to being in charge, and it’s less threatening to a tall man because I’m so little (compared to him).
Shorter men seem to wind up with taller women sometimes? They seem to go for the Amazons, and I’m definitely not an Amazon. Maybe it’s just a case of opposites attracting?
My one dating experience with a guy my own height (although I think he was probably about an inch shorter than I am) was with an Italian man: nice guy, divorced single dad, very hardworking and responsible, but… He was VERY pushy and insisted on picking me up at my house on the first date.
I have never broken the rule of meeting an online date at a public place and using my own transportation before. He just keep browbeating me and wearing me down until I agreed to let him pick me up at my house. I was anxious and nervous about it the whole time, and I could not enjoy the date at all. It was a wipe out. We never went out again after that.
Vicki 431
@Amber — One of my grad school classmates had a theory about short men having larger you knows, and tall men having smaller ones. She held up her hand to make an L with index and thumb. Tall guy : index finger height, thumb = size of you know. Short guy : thumb height, index finger = size of you know… It just made me laugh.
I’m sure there’s no scientific correlation, but she was very much into dating Latin American men, so I think she just made that up to justify her personal preferences.
She ended up marrying a Guatemalan guy who was maybe 5’6″ or 5’7″. Their college friends called them “Lucy and Desi” – she was a very extroverted, scatterbrained American girl, with this very quiet, dignified Guatemalan guy. He even sort of looked like Desi Arnaz.
Greg 432
I’m 5’5″. I personally think that it is natural for a women to like a man taller taller than herself. I respect that.
But I have read many a profile on PoF over the last couple months and it is not uncommon for a women that is 4’11″ to state that she only dates 6′ and over. My ex-wife is 5′ tall. She always made me feel pretty tall.
I have always been a fairly confident guy. I’m short, but I am fit and “stocky.” So I am pretty sure I look taller than what I am. That might sound like an oxymoron, but i have met other guys around my height that also just don’t look short. I’m okay looking, but clean, hard working, smart, have a good job. I am saying all of this because online dating has been a serious blow to my ego. I never ever knew that it was this bad to be a short man.
I guess its good that I don’t want to be a “player,” as I am fairly confident that I will find someone.
Jude 433
yes, a lot of bla and a big busket of bla, though those blas were not meaningless, i think people who think about heights and size more than personality and passion, they’re missing a big potion of truth that is out there. and not all short guys r intimidated by a woman’s size!! we don’t make friends seeing someone’s size. and if u think tall guys r better, u’re wrong. no one’s better than anyone, once a wise person said “looks will deceieve u, for what we see is not what it is always”. If someone loves u, cares about u and makes u laugh all the time, why shouldn’t it be enough? u tall girls are missing a big potion of world by limiting yourself in a stupid way of looking good. and i m sure, u’ll continue it , because u still want to look good in a party or a social function
James B 434
Most women like men who taller due to body image issues or they want to make their friends jealous because tall men are seen as desirable in society.
In my experience, very short women (5ft 2 or less) tend to gravitate towards men who are 6ft plus and that’s usually because they have issues with their own height. For example, I knew one girl at Uni who was very short (5ft 1) albeit attractive and she wouldn’t go out with anyone shorter than 6ft. However, she was someone with a number of issues and felt that people didn’t take her seriously because of her height and that it didn’t bode well for her future career (the Law). Moreover, she didn’t want short children. Enough said on that one.
Tall women (5ft 7 and above) tend to give short men short shrift for a number of reasons. Firstly, they feel manly and not feminine around someone shorter and that’s to an extent understandable. After all, some men may contrarily feel emasculated in the presence of a taller woman.
Nonetheless, the reason why a taller woman will not give a short man the time of day, is because she’s worried what her friends will think of her dating decision (will they snigger or will they be envious – that’s the reaction she obviously wants). She may even be sexually attracted to him but the opinion of her friends’ will likely matter far more. Unfortunately, most people in life are sheep, lack self-confidence/individuality and are dependent on other people’s opinions for that all important ego-boost.
Men are the exactly the same in this regard. They might be sexually attracted to a larger girl but may not admit it to their friends and certainly wouldn’t show her off for fear of ridicule. It’s horrendous to say all of this but we are tremendously superficial society and the problem has certainly gotten worse in the last 20-30 years. Most people (men and women) are more concerned with ‘will my friends be envious of my new Boyfriend/Girlfriend,’ than whether there’s any long term shared compatibility.
The above is compounded by the fact that there’s an awful lot of women out there (most of them seemingly on online dating sites and thus single) who have sense of entitlement that like in the movies they too deserve a tall, dark, handsome man earning $250k a year without necessarily bringing anything positive to the table and this is plainly obvious with regards to online dating. Regrettably, there are many deluded women online who have extremely unrealistic expectations and that’s why they’re still single and online dating will do little to change this.
This is further exacerbated by the fact that men vastly outnumber women on any dating site you can mention and this has a number of inevitable consequences:
1) An average looking women will receive far more attention/messages than a man of similar attractiveness online especially if she’s under 30;
2) Thus, Women appear to have much more choice than men do so tend to filter very aggressively;
3) Online dating is invariable even more superficial as it’s very difficult to project charm, wit and other favourable personality traits into a profile which would make a man slightly more appealing to a woman in person so the whole process becomes a completely cynical cost benefit analysis (How tall is he? Is he too short? Is he attractive? How much does he earn? Does he own a home? What does he do for a living?);
4) And this has the knock on effect of average looking women becoming rather picky online (particularly if they’re under 30) and this is self-defeating as they’ll probably have a number of conversations that won’t lead to anywhere and thus miss someone compatible.
A lot of women and men want the perfect partner and it’s just not out there for the vast majority. We all need to compromise to some degree as none of us are perfect. So in conclusion ladies, there’s nothing wrong with a preference but it’s perhaps not advisable to be so picky/judgemental about appearances (is he tall enough etc) particularly if you’re average looking at best, 30 pounds overweight, with saggy breasts and a cellulite covered backside. Otherwise, prepare to be Spinster!
jan 435
I’m 5’1 female and I did the same kind of research of what heights men were looking for. Most of them wanted 5’3 and over.. the ones that didn’t specify height didn’t specify much else either, ( taking whatever they can get? ) So.. then I searched to see what the lesbians were looking for.. Same thing.. actually not one of them said they wanted a shorter woman.. Short women are discriminated against as well.
NG 436
James B434
Most women like men who taller due to body image issues or they want to make their friends jealous because tall men are seen as desirable in society.
In my experience, very short women (5ft 2 or less) tend to gravitate towards men who are 6ft plus and that’s usually because they have issues with their own height. For example, I knew one girl at Uni who was very short (5ft 1) albeit attractive and she wouldn’t go out with anyone shorter than 6ft. However, she was someone with a number of issues and felt that people didn’t take her seriously because of her height and that it didn’t bode well for her future career (the Law). Moreover, she didn’t want short children. Enough said on that one.
Tall women (5ft 7 and above) tend to give short men short shrift for a number of reasons. Firstly, they feel manly and not feminine around someone shorter and that’s to an extent understandable. After all, some men may contrarily feel emasculated in the presence of a taller woman.
Nonetheless, the reason why a taller woman will not give a short man the time of day, is because she’s worried what her friends will think of her dating decision (will they snigger or will they be envious – that’s the reaction she obviously wants). She may even be sexually attracted to him but the opinion of her friends’ will likely matter far more. Unfortunately, most people in life are sheep, lack self-confidence/individuality and are dependent on other people’s opinions for that all important ego-boost.
Men are the exactly the same in this regard. They might be sexually attracted to a larger girl but may not admit it to their friends and certainly wouldn’t show her off for fear of ridicule. It’s horrendous to say all of this but we are tremendously superficial society and the problem has certainly gotten worse in the last 20-30 years. Most people (men and women) are more concerned with ‘will my friends be envious of my new Boyfriend/Girlfriend,’ than whether there’s any long term shared compatibility.
The above is compounded by the fact that there’s an awful lot of women out there (most of them seemingly on online dating sites and thus single) who have sense of entitlement that like in the movies they too deserve a tall, dark, handsome man earning $250k a year without necessarily bringing anything positive to the table and this is plainly obvious with regards to online dating. Regrettably, there are many deluded women online who have extremely unrealistic expectations and that’s why they’re still single and online dating will do little to change this.
This is further exacerbated by the fact that men vastly outnumber women on any dating site you can mention and this has a number of inevitable consequences:
1) An average looking women will receive far more attention/messages than a man of similar attractiveness online especially if she’s under 30;
2) Thus, Women appear to have much more choice than men do so tend to filter very aggressively;
3) Online dating is invariable even more superficial as it’s very difficult to project charm, wit and other favourable personality traits into a profile which would make a man slightly more appealing to a woman in person so the whole process becomes a completely cynical cost benefit analysis (How tall is he? Is he too short? Is he attractive? How much does he earn? Does he own a home? What does he do for a living?);
4) And this has the knock on effect of average looking women becoming rather picky online (particularly if they’re under 30) and this is self-defeating as they’ll probably have a number of conversations that won’t lead to anywhere and thus miss someone compatible.
A lot of women and men want the perfect partner and it’s just not out there for the vast majority. We all need to compromise to some degree as none of us are perfect. So in conclusion ladies, there’s nothing wrong with a preference but it’s perhaps not advisable to be so picky/judgemental about appearances (is he tall enough etc) particularly if you’re average looking at best, 30 pounds overweight, with saggy breasts and a cellulite covered backside. Otherwise, prepare to be Spinster!
I’m saving this one..
MrPitbull069 437
Well, I’m short (5’3) and that never stopped me from meeting women. I’m 39 now and I can honestly say that I couldn’t be happier. Being short was never an obstical for me. I’m married to a beautiful tall (5’11) women and we have a healthy strong 10 year old son who is already (5’1). My advice to all the tall men out there is to stay away from women who put so much importance on height because you’re probably tall and handsom today but God forbid you have a car accident and become parilyzed. I can guarantee you most of them won’t stick around for ya, she’ll just move on to the next tall guy. If you meet a women and she loves you for who you are, no matter what happens your women will stick around. Think of it this way, if a women judges a man by his height then she’s not the women for you. There are billions of women out there so your odds of finding the right one are pretty good.
Helen 438
The sex is better with men that are bigger then you. They can pick you up, and try fun positions and things. Also, I think it is what height and stature imply that makes it a desirable quality. If there were three guys, one tall, one average, and one short, based off of first impressions, I would assume the tallest was the most adventurous and the most romantic. I don’t know why, maybe it is the media, but I hate blaming the media for everything, so I don’t know why.
Miska 439
Tom is a guy who wants the “larger pool or candidates” and yet with all of these females talking about all these great taller and shorter guys they ever dated…Most of you are just missing the point. I think I want to move to Europe! That is the point.
Americans are continually searching for the bigger, better genetic pool that is out there and yet no one on this site seems to find a perfect match! Tom and the rest of you females continually searching are just wasting your time and energy! Ask every married couple and they will tell you…it was “the look in the eyes” when they met. You often feel a deeper connection that defies height, weight, and physical characteristics. Scientists found that similar smiles are what usually draws a mate to the other. So….this is just all crap. Tom and most of you females have to FEEL and let yourselves go with the natural selection that is often subconcious and just HAPPENS when you lock EYES!
Stampy 440
Most women don’t find short men attractive. What’s not legitimate about that? Most men don’t find morbidly obese women attractive, and few people question the legitimacy of that. And, before people start crying that it’s different because obese people choose to be that way, while nobody chooses to be short, I’d like to point out that obesity can be caused by or contributed to by a number of biological causes. The guy referenced above is a short shit, and I’ve spent most of my life struggling with obesity and related conditions stemming from a congenital condition that wasn’t diagnosed (and therefore treated) until recently. Maybe we can engage a really small violinist to play The World’s Smallest Violin for us as we commiserate over how we got genes that make us unattractive to potential partners.
Single for life 441
This is worse than reading a “insert” group of people are racist.
You girls admit to the segregation based on an uncontrollable trait. Ha, the funny part, is that most of the ABOVE AVERAGE TALL WOMEN are ignorant to the fact that they are making ABOVE AVERAGE TALL DAUGHTERS because they are having babies from the taller guys.
Well, unless you can rig the sperm to only create sons, then you are just making more tall bitches.
Single for life 442
^^ok, that was rude.
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I don’t have a doll, they are creapy.
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I think, for men, it’s mostly about sex. If the woman is too unhealthy to have sex, then they are not attractive.
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For women, they are all over the radar. It’s like going to the ghetto, and asking why they act so stupid. LOL, nigga please!
Joe 443
@ Stampy: Most women don’t find morbidly obese men attractive either. That argument doesn’t work.
Aysee 444
I haven´t had the time to read all the comments, so I might be saying something that´s already been said. But I´ve had one boyfriend that was my height (I´m 168 cm tall) and dated one that was slightly lower – and they both had such inferiority complexes about it, that when we went out for dinners, the complexes pretty much needed their own chairs by the table.
THAT´s what bothered me. Not the actual height.
Do I prefer higher men? Yes. I also prefer men who easily tan and whose teeth are white and shiny. I couldn´t dream of making it a demand.
D 445
I’m 5’4″… I think the main problem is that, in dating…. there’s really two types of dating. There’s dating “cold” and there’s a natural longer progressing matching of minds.
Short guys.. I think, it’s not that they can’t date. It’s that they can’t really participate in the quick and dirty type of loose casual dating IE online dating, club scene, flirting with the girl behind the counter, etc…
I live in LA.. so.. you know it’s crazy here. I’ve found all my dates thru school, or yeah online.. but, I just cannot go to clubs.. bars.. or even now with online dating, I can spot out all the girls profiles, clearly.. most are what most guys find ‘hot’ or cute or .. you know, desirable. But it’s those ones who aren’t going for the short ones.
It’s like the hidden thing nobody says, yeah, some girls go for them, but more likely than not, it’s the girls who are sort of not wanted by most guys.
Lot of ‘fat girls’ fall for short guys, and in the short guy’s mind, he sees her the same way any other guy would.. we are *suprise* not attracted to them.
Is that hypocracy?? No, cause, it’s just the way it is. I’m not attracted to them, just like someone isn’t attracted to me for my height.
The reason for all the stubborness is because okay. Let’s take “fat people”.
A “fat man” has it hard in dating. BUT, so does a “fat woman”.
Whereas a “short man” has it hard, but a “short woman” is like the petite sexual flower throw over your shoulder little smokin hottie in the high heels.
Short girls aren’t experiencing it… They’re considered cute because of it.
That’s why short guys are kinda.. you know, liked by gay men. cause there’s a ‘cuteness’ about it…
But, that’s the point. Cute is only good when you’re like 16 or gay.
We’re still “men” inside, and men like to feel big and strong.
Physically and mentally.
I may be 5’4″ but I want to feel like I’m standing above you.. cause, I am after all, the man.
It’s NOT napolean… it’s just.. bein a dude…
I’m a dude. dudes can be 5’1″, they can be 6’2″.. we’re just dudes…. like music, cars, sports, and girls. Dudes.
We want to metaphorically throw our girl over our shoulders….
I just think the internet, TV, etc.. shows BAD BAD examples of short people. We need more Prince, less Beiber.
Jessica 446
I couldn’t read all the posts to know if anyone has already said this, but I did read enough of them to know the majority of women seem to share the similar opinion that tall men make them feel more protected.
I am 6′ tall, and describe myself as ‘full figured’ on my dating profile. I have dated both women and men, and between a range of 5’3″ to 6″5″ – the shortest man I dated was 5’6″. I noticed that when I was laying down with him, height was irrelevant – he admired my body – and made me feel adored and appreciated, knew what he was doing sexually, and how to work with our height differences … (side note: best sex ever!) Sometimes when we were standing and kissing I would notice I would feel a little too tall, for it to be comfortable, and so I just slouched against something – and it was fine.
When I dated the man who was 6’5″ I had to kiss him on my ‘tip toes’, which I’ll admit was cute (for about ten minutes). When I laid down with him I felt safe and cozy – but no more so, than I have when I’ve laid down with any person I’ve cared about.
I’ve heard all the reasons why I should date taller, and used many of them myself. I’ve also used my own insecurities about height and size to push nice men (of all heights) away – using those excuses. As I’ve been challenging myself to accept my own flaws and imperfections I’ve realized just how many people are out there looking for love (all heights, sizes, races, etc) – and that essentially the things we really want are to be respected, accepted and appreciated for who we really are today.
I know it’s a challenge to deal with those darn expectations from others … but how about simply challenging your OWN expecations; are they realistic? If you tackle your own ideas and thoughts, you’ve taken a mightier step toward ‘society’ accepting your wholeness because you have accepted yourself.
Just my thoughts.
Beth Luwandi 447
It is what it is. Long sexy legs and a sparse butt on a man positively makes me weak in the knees. I am sooo not made that way and I love how my body fits with its opposite. Would I consider a shorter man? yes. but only if he can easily pick me up and as long as my head fits under his chin when we stand barefoot. If naked, so much the better.
It’s just biology, same way a 75% waist to hip ratio is most attractive to men. We’re not all made that way but “a girl doesn’t need a lot of suitors. She just needs one, as long as he’s the right one.”
In that respect, judging from my own personal history, height has not been the determining factor. On the other hand, short cannot make up for that weak in the knees response.
Just because a woman or man has more interested candidates, does not mean they’re more capable of finding lasting love or sustaining it. Someone should research that!
Nicole 448
I would have absolutely NO problem whatsoever with a short man. I do, however, want what I want, as you say. My criteria are ridiculously specific, and for good reason. If I were speaking to the physical part of things… I’d say, it is more about a man being self posessed, being confident (perhaps hard to do, given the negative response to one’s shortness) being passionate about what they do, and for me, they have to be passionate about the same thing I do. I mean, we have to have the same career-ish sort of thing going on. I guess that is my “height”- if they have the same level of passion for the thing I am passionate about in my life, especailly since it isn’t about money or religion. Oh yeah, and they have to be an atheist.
I can tell you- just atheist/passionate musician/warm, honest, and non-player person is near-impossible to find. Good news is: I only need to find one!
and so does he.
Nicole 449
wait- I didn’t even speak to the physical part of things.
they must not be important.
Jonny 450
Ladies, your insecurity is NOT an acceptable excuse for choosing a bigger man. Insecurity destroys relationships and has nothing to do with the other person. If you have a self-image problem that is YOUR problem, not the ectomorph’s problem. Stop blaming him for your own refusal to accept your body as it is.
Jonny 451
@Beth Luwandi
What’s with the exclusive focus on flesh and skin? What’s with the baseless claims from “biology”? Do you know love independent from lust? If so, why is your post steeped in flesh and skin and makes no mention of anything of substance for my gender?
Greg 452
Its sad to see people put physical things ahead of character. Women are just as shallow as men. I would love to have a supermodel with big breasts. But I know that’s not the most important thing. It’s always better to try to see people for who they are on the inside.
Goldie 453
I’m 5’9″. Up until a few months ago, I had never dated anyone below 6′, let alone shorter than me. Turns out, I’d been missing out on a lot of wonderful people! So, to girls that do not like shorter guys, send them my way. As long as he doesn’t mind me being taller, and meets my other criteria, I’ll take him.
Oh, and to all that posted on this thread about short guys being short in, um, every way… it really *is* a lottery, girls. There is no correlation between a man’s height and his size that I know of.
Kathy 454
I feel for this guy. 5’3″ is extreme and it’s not his fault either. 5’3″ is short for any woman to be attracted to. There are all types out there and someone will eventually fall for this guy. Sounds like she might be lucky, too.
diligence 455
If you think that women consciously choose tall men over short women for reasons they can not only recognize, but also control (or care to control), you’ve lost the plot.
Men generally choose younger women over older women. Women generally choose higher wage earners over lower wage earners. Etc., etc. And yet, so many of us Homo sapiens wind up partnered and spitting out progeny anyway. Amazing.
All the wah-wah-wah is mind-numbing, but I suppose that when luck and labor afford you most of it — color, class, currency, etc. — one may be indignant when genetics holds out and instead offers the short finger.
Ah, well, sociocultural evolution doesn’t care if you think that’s fair; it knows it’s fair because it is.
danny 456
its very personal issue , everygal has her own preference wich can b unreasonable too. i am 5’5” n i hav seen der r always sum gals in every part f globe who dont care about going out wid a guy equal or lil shorter than em… bt 2 things r vry imp for short guys n gals :
1. NEVER b self concious abt ur height.
2.BE RICH
leto 457
i don’t care about the height of man. not to say that i am devoid of superficiality. but for whatever reason i don’t care about height. in fact, if i had to choose, i’d rather date someone my height (5’4”) than a six footer. do i get a gold medal, or what?
OCmusicman 458
Last year I spent some time on a very well-known dating site (the one with the personality and compatibility profiles). I’m in my early fifties, make a good income, have an advanced degree, own my own home, and am considered to be at least reasonably attractive. At the end of my subscription, I had been rejected or ignored by approximately 900 women. My fatal flaw? I am short, at an honest five-foot-seven.
The few women that I did meet were not shy about their feelings in this area. One woman was five-eight, but that missing inch was a complete deal-breaker for her.
What really shocked me, even more than my personal experience, was the comments that I have seen on several “advice” websites regarding dating. Most of the comments from women were along the lines of, “No, I am not attracted to short men, and I’m really, really tired of having to defend my preferences. And no, I’m not shallow.” And many of us remember the TV newsmagazine show from some years back, in which a panel of women consistently and repeatedly picked tall men of low-to-average career achievement over a highly accomplished short man.
So I have become convinced of one obvious conclusion: It’s not just that women are not attracted to us. It is the fact that women are vehemently, militantly, unequivocally, vitriolically and unapologetically unattracted to us. In modern society, or at least here in Southern California, a man who is BWS (breathing while short) comes to the dating scene as one of the most undesirable individuals imaginable…and it is almost impossible for a shorter man to compensate for it with other desirable traits.
It has taken me thirty years of disappointment to fully accept this fact. I truly hope that women can find the tall men of their dreams. At my age, I am resigned to the possibility that I might always be alone, but I still know that it’s better than being with the wrong person.
Anna from Europe 459
I think shorter men are HOT when they do not let their height weight down their confidence! One of the best lovers I ever had was a “short” guy but superconfident guy, he was maybe 5’4 (I’m 5’2 so most men tend to be taller than me anyway).
One of the worst lovers I ever had was a supertall guy (a giant basketballer dude), no stamina. And it’s weird to be with someone that much taller.
I guess I like my men in *kissing-height*, it’s so nice to not have to “look up” to look into your man’s eyes.
to all the shorter guys who feel their height is a problem, remember:
1. There are taller women who prefer or have nothing against shorter guys
2. There will always be some woman who is shorter than you. Find her =)
Susan S 460
I wasn’t going to comment on this very long string until I read OCMusicMan’s sad commentary. I live in SoCal, too, and I’m 5’9″, female. My ex husband is 6’3″, my last real boyfriends were both 6’1″ and yes, it’s related to not wanting to feel like I’m a buffalo when we’re naked. It’s also related to my observation that most men (not all) have, umm, equipment that’s proportionate to their height.
I always had my pick of any man I wanted…until I turned 45 and gained about 20 lbs. Now I’m at the bottom of the barrel myself, and it’s interesting to see how different my social ranking has become. Presently, I’m dating a man who is 26 yrs older than me, and only 5’7″ tall. I’m aware that if I could magically lose even 5 years and those 20 lbs, I’d have a great chance again of getting tall men.
But ironically, the men I’ve dated off the “B-list” since I changed age and shape are nicer, smarter, more calm, probably more loyal, certainly kinder and – get this – in every case wealthier – than the men I enjoyed previously. And I’m a fairly successful woman myself, so that’s not even the goal.
My current gentleman is the most wonderful person I’ve ever known, regardless of gender, age or height. I’m incredibly lucky to be with him. If I’d known all along that the good ones are not on the A-list that I could so easily choose from before, I’d have made better choices in the 15+ yrs I’ve been “single again”.
anonymous 461
I have no idea why short women want to be with tall men. It’s kind of ridiculous. I’m a woman of 5’9″ and the men I have dated range from 5’10″ to 6’5″. Short men hit on me too, but it makes more sense for me to be with a tall guy. And since I’m considered beautiful, I can pick what I want. However, I don’t understand why plain, short, dumpy women are holding out for a six-footer. Get real. If you are five foot nothing, why on earth do you consider yourself too good to go out with a guy who is five foot three? He’s still taller than you, tall enough that you can wear heels.
I really do feel bad for the short guys. Especially when some women who are practically munchkins think they need a guy a foot taller than them. It’s hard to respect that.
still looking 462
anonymous @ 461
So since you are considered beautiful you believe you can pick what you want but “plain, short, dumpy women” shouldn’t hold out for what they find attractive???
Wow. The phrase “don’t judge a book by its cover” just popped into my head — and I’m not referring to those who were not blessed with your superior genes.
E 463
I think it’s really unfair that women discriminate against shorter men so much, so in an expression of solidarity I’ve removed myself from the dating market (I’m 6’2″). I’d rather be single than waste my time with some superficial, immature prima donnas who are only interested in me because I’m tall.
Horace 464
OCMusicman, 458
Someone should have told you many years ago to get out of America, look outside of Hollywood and discover the quality that is foreign women. If not, I will reiterate to you today that you should consider doing this and make some travel plans. You’ve got nothing to lose and some amazing women to meet who will show interest in you if you give them the same opportunity. You owe it to yourself not to make your experiences with American women the here all and end all of your dating life. Look no further than who responded to you out of sympathy. Susan S.
Forgive me, but this woman sounds like the typical US variety of slightly above average to tall (5’7 to 5’9), who has used her looks to define the men she’s chosen for herself to date. Add the fact that a taller man reaffirms her femininity considering she mentioned her fears of feeling like a “buffalo,” in the bedroom. Imagine what her fears are like in public with a shorter guy if she so concerned about feeling like a giant behind closed doors. Like a lot of women on this continent, Susan has been brainwashed and programmed by Hollywood into believing short men are inferior to tall men, especially at the age of her youth when she considered herself most attractive. Now that she’s aged and older, she’s got nothin’ left to offer besides wrinkles and saggy body parts. Granted, her wrinkles and saggy body parts wouldn’t be an issue to me, but I bet it is for her. How can it not be, when she can’t choose from the A-list guys anymore because of her looks? Notice that she now considers herself at the bottom of the barrel? Perfectly suitable for the least desired B-list short guys? These are exactly the women I avoid now in my life who wouldn’t give me the time of the day when they were on top of their own little worlds. They expect that me being a short guy=desperate=easy pickings. They couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t sell myself cheap to the reformed heightists with fading looks who all of a sudden are interested in hooking up with me long term. Sex is one thing but I don’t stay in relationships with women like these. A lot of them are like leopards who can’t change their heightist spots. Once a heightist, always a heightist, forever a heightist.
One really good thing about being 5’5 that has taught me lots about people and not just women is to value strength of character in a person at an early age. You make no excuses for yourself to be dissapointed if you seek out someone for the quality of their heart and figure out what makes that person’s heart special to you. If you’re a guy and want to play it single and have lots of sex with lots of different women, you must be at least 6’0 tall for most of the rides. Anything shorter than 5’10 is pushing it. Height is half the battle and having boatloads of money is the other half.
One more thing. The whole concept of taller men being more endowed than shorter men below the belt is a lottery ladies, just like Goldie 453 said. Penis size is not based on shoe size, hand size or how tall a man stands. Your mom and dad’s genes are responsible for that. I know this from experience working in the fitness and medical fields. Not that I’m gay, but I’ve seen enough naked men and the flaccid state is not the measuring stick which makes for a good package. I’ve dated women who’ve been with taller guys and they have all told be that my package is bigger and better, meaning harder and more satisfying LOL. Any woman who believes smaller men are smaller and inferior overall as men need to wake up and be pleasantly surprised.
Jack 465
I am a 30-year-old male who’s a little under 5’8″. I weigh around 160 lbs but it’s a very lean, muscular 160 (lifted weights throughout my entire twenties and have always been pretty athletic and have a naturally athletic build. In other words, I’m shaped like a guy should be and am stronger and quicker than the average male. Not going bald and have had lots of girlfriends, despite not being the most well-connected or sociable guy, though certainly not anti-social by any means. So in many ways even though I am below average height, I have a lot of other things going for me that I honestly wouldnt trade for a few more inches.
And that’s what I don’t get about some women … I understand people like what they like, and I understand a typical 5’11″ or even 5’7″ girl isn’t going to want to date a guy who’s 5’3″, but what I find strange are the women who are around average height who request (on their dating profiles, for example) that they’re only interested in guys, say, 5’10″ or higher. To me height is such a one-dimensional statistic that tells you very little about the physical sexual attractiveness of another person, within a broad range. Weight is another example. Why doesnt match.com, for example, list acceptable weight ranges? Because someone’s weight doesn’t tell you how they’re put together. And how you’re put together in my opinion is what matters from a physical attractivess standpoint, within a broad range of heights and weights. Take breasts for example. I tend to like larger, (natural) breasts, but the shape of some smaller breasts are amazing and I might find them just as attractive as someone’s larger breasts. Smaller breasts on a smaller girl might fit her and won’t seem as small as the same breasts on a larger girl. Again, my whole point here is it would seem silly to me to limit my searches to women who are under 160 lbs or who only had natural C cups and above. I can’t put being “put together well” into a statistic, but I’ll know it when I see it and trust me height and weight will likely have nothing to do with it….within a wide range, again.
Jack 466
I guess my broader point above is that I wouldnt want to miss out on the hot girl who might weigh 170 lbs but has curves to die for to go along with a beautiful face… But I guess women who are, say, 5’5″ and list 5’10″ and above only on their dating profiles are basically saying height is so important that I don’t care how much better the 5’7″ might be proportioned than the 5’10″ guy with the dropping shoulders… it just seems honestly like a bad strategy unless these women really are obsessed with height by itself for its own sake..
Ladybug 467
I am 5’4″ slender and athletic. When I was young I perceived short men in my dating range as not having the earning power as the taller, larger men. Then there was the issue of many of the short guys having Little Man syndrome.
Over the years as I’ve gained life experience my perspective has shifted, I see beautiful smiling women towering over their adoring husbands, my “type’ has changed.
I’m dating short wealthy gentlemen. There is no question about their earning power. If they had Little Man syndrome in their youth, they resolved it long ago by being successful businessmen. These men are my height or a few inches taller, strong and well muscled and super intelligent, good looking and adorable. Best of all, they are gentlemen who treat me right! Because they’re short, there are not 20 other women competing for his attention.
Not only do I not have to stand on my toes to kiss them, I don’t get a kink in my neck, either!
Okay. I’m still not interested in men way shorter than I, I like to slow dance without him bobbing for apples, thank you.
niki 468
I’m 5’8″/slender and my Ex was 5’9″ and it was perfect. I liked looking at him at eye level and we fit perfectly. I then dated a guy who was 6’4″ and I did like it at first but that wore off quickly. It was too tall for me. I am going on a date soon with a guy who also had issues because he isn’t exactly tall…he’s 5’8″ as well. Perfect for me!
daphne 469
.. fascinating but not surprising, pseudo-scientific (!?) piece.
attraction, I’m convinced, is more ‘hard-wired’ than conscious choice: we are animals. conscious. highly intelligent (if not evolved.. wink?!). but animals.
scientific studies have ‘proved’ that scent plays a primary, if unconscious, role in our choosing of mates! (do short men smell differently? ! ? I doubt it)
as a woman, I can say both that-
- I am touched- moved- by how sad this must make ‘short’ (relative !), heterosexual men feel
- I feel strangely reassured that we (heterosexual women) are not the only ones who feel Life’s random, neutral cruelty: I am not a supermodel; I am no longer under 35 years old; I, too, yearn to be ‘seen’ for who I am and what I can ‘offer’ another- non-physical qualities like tenderness and an imaginative take on life..
but desire is desire.
and yes, ‘the heart wants what the heart wants.’
I do believe that the longer a relationship lasts the more each partner IS ‘seen’ for who they are- and loved for the same-
but to get in that first, superficial, seemingly fickle “door”, so to speak ? ?
that is a mystery..
so all I can say to the “shorter men” is.. don’t stop trying! because, as sober, post rejection ‘perspective’ will confirm, if you’re honest with yourself: you don’t need 400 winks/responses/matches– you need one.
one good one.
one good, real one.
janice 470
I am currently with a gorgeous man…who’s height is the least important thing about him. He is everything I want in a man and makes me feel like the most beautiful woman in the world inside and out. I have dated a lot of men of all heights and the two most awesome men have been shorter than me…I am 5’4. My man is 5’3 and I adore him and I am very lucky, he is smart, athletic, caring, funny, creative, honest, wise, and he cooks, cleans, dances with me any chance he can get, loves looking and smelling good- I am treated like a princess and have so much fun with him. I think it is sad women need a taller man to feel more feminine, petite and protected…to be authentic and powerful as a woman those are things that actually come from within yourself. It is about the person and no matter what height anyone is I look at the quality of them as an individual…and I know that guys around my height or shorter are pretty sexy, lovely and worth being with.
stephen 471
ahh here now this is stupid, i am a small man of 5,4…. it dosent get me down at all… because i wouldnt want a taller women and guys there are small girls out there… as i am quite successfull at pulln women and trust me theres been alot… i heard of someone say we wer over bearing or something stupid like that… well all ill say to her is this… i am 20 years old… i have two jobs and two cars ow and guess what i just got approved for a mortgage… at 20 i think i am doing well and personally if this is the attitude of women then there no good for anyone… probably unattractive in looks themselve but you see that dosent matter to men so why does it matter to you what you look like what height weight or anything… all my friends would be taller than me but most sit down in a pub somewhere while i got lucky(admittedly) and made good money.. i think i am the better man here
TheException 472
I hope this advice can help someone. I am a short man myself, but I don’t have problems with women because I view myself as the exception. This gives you confidence.
Sound ridiculous? Maybe. I don’t care, because it works.
As a short man you know that you have to be better at any given activity to gain respect. You need to be in great shape physically so that you still project a masculine presence (don’t go overboard). You must be successful financially, professionally, or artistically. You need to have sharp wit and a great sense of humor. You need to be constantly improving yourself and projecting an alpha attitude.
Projecting an alpha attitude with a beta height seems impossible at first. At first you will feel the self-doubt, but as you correct your body language, your verbiage, your eye contact, and your state of mind it will become you.
As you improve, people WILL say that you have short man’s syndrome or a Napoleon complex. So…what are you going to do? Are you going to stop trying to be the best you can be because of another person’s jealousy? Let me put it to you like this, being successful is universally admired trait in a man, and that is only questioned if you are a short man. Don’t let it bother you. People hate that you have overcome such a huge obstacle and still remained successful. It means that you have a lot of heart and determination and some people will feel insecure because it calls into question their own heart and determination. You are the exception. Maybe those other short guys are over-compensating, but you are just being you.
Trust me on this point, guys will hate you when you get the girl. Taller guys hate seeing a short guy with a pretty girl because it is like an abomination of nature to them. They immediately assume he is rich or famous, or that she has a fatal flaw , or that the relationship is doomed. Rejoice in this. Having haters (sometimes!) means you are successful.
Do all this, and most importantly stop obsessing over height. Don’t read these articles. I gave into temptation today because I heard about EMK giving out excellent dating advice to women, and I just had to click on it.
The day you stop obsessing over height is the day you truly begin living.
A lot of the women here say they’ve dated a short guy, a lot of the women say they will never date a short guy. A lot of women who’ve dated a short guy will say that they never will date a short guy. Women who I’ve dated have made fun of short guys in front of me, not in a spiteful manner, but completely oblivious that I am also short. Your presence can really outshine your height. These things aren’t black and white. Some women will no matter what, NOT date you. But there are plenty of women who you can make feel feminine, just by being alpha no matter what your height is.
GP 473
I have TWO “dating a short man” stories. I’m 5’8″ and a half inch barefooted and my weight ranges from 114 to 120. My measurements are 36 25 35. I’m pretty, black (AfAm), graduated from a top 5 law school and Ivy League college and made good money when I lived/worked in New York City.
Black women have difficulty finding black men who want to get married rather than play the field. Black men are a HOT commodity among white women and among the black women who want to marry so they don’t get married or stay married typically. I dated black men 10 years older and couldn’t close the deal (and still haven’t closed the deal though it’s been my preference to marry a black man… so yes I’m open to dating white men… and look forward to getting married to a tall or short white man). So the short man stories I have relate to my being open to trying online dating and seeing if that broadened the pool of men I dated.
When dating online, I deliberately expanded my search parameters and found myself attracted to two short white men who had repeatedly written to me.
HOT STUFF SHORTY#1 was like a pocket version of Eddie Cibrian. He was 5’3″ to my 5’8″ had a great smile, great sense of humor, oodles of sex appeal, was an awesome kisser, had decent character, Ivy League degrees, high achiever, ambitious, driven, confident in the sexiest way, but was a bit work obsessed. Our passionate but short term union ended I think because he didn’t want to have a an interracial relationship. He found it difficult enough to walk down the street with a tall woman. He liked it but yes you get attention from people walking down the street, even in New York. And in NYC there was the added pleasantry of people mistaking me for a prostitute, despite the fact tha I was well dressed. Tall black woman with shorty? She must be getting paid to be his companion. High class prostitute maybe. No thought to the idea that I might be Ivy League educated just like he was. No thought that I might be a lawyer working for a top 10 law firm. I will also admit that I was really pushing for more in our relationship and he wanted to be able to call the shots. I loved his masculinity and sex appeal but he wanted something else, someone white and someone more feminine in her relationship role. I was delightfully feminine in certain ways he said but just my calling to say hi and to make a date ruined it for him. Seriously? Whatever. We had some marathon kissing sessions and he was undeniably sexually attractive to me. He was attractive to me as a man but he was one-dimensional with his ambition/work obsessions. Still, I admired his ambition and he was extremely successful, confident, hot. Not all short men are this attractive. We were on the subway, he touched my finger and it was electric. We had chemistry but I guess you can’t have both a height-challenged and interracial relationship. Too many questions from the outside world.
HOT STUFF SHORTY#2 was 5’1″ (again next to my 5’8″) also above average successful but less attractive to me than #1 but still very hot in terms of sexual attraction because of his level of confidence. But then he tried to “game” me in the way regular guys try to “game” women in the dating game. They read these books about how to dominate women and treat women like crap so that women will be “stuck” on them and they can be the “king” or “player” or “the one in control” in the relationship. There is some guru known ad Doc Love selling these books to men telling men how to treat women and “call the shots.” You know what I did when he started pulling that “game”….? I called him and told him it was over and he burst into tears crying on the phone. You really want to use Doc Love’s System on me? Fine. It’s over. Because I’d like a guy who is open, sincere, interested in falling in love and not trying to play asshole games that every other guy just looking for sex plays. My thinking in ending things was that if you’re 5’1″ (and again I’m 5’8″ and he got onto a step ladder to make out with me in his granite topped kitchen and it was cute/sexy still). Shorty #2 did make me feel as if he was a “child” I’d have to take care of…. Maybe he was using the Doc Love System because he was deeply insecure. You don’t burst on the phone in tears as a man without some deep insecurity. Most men can at least hold it in until they get off the phone. What made me furious was that I was open to expanding the pool of men I dated because I was looking for a serious relationship, one that could lead to a happy marriage. And he was playing a game… the Doc Love System for dominating the woman in your life. Be sincere and open with me and see if we get along and fall in love. Don’t jerk me around and think that I won’t dump you even faster than a man who is 5’10″… It was too bad but what was he thinking? And am I so wrong for putting up with less crap from him (though very likely I would have ended things with a tall man who had tried the same crap).
So after those 2 experiences I haven’t tried dating short men. I’m single and want to be married but if short men are as much trouble as tall men, and tall handsome men continue to approach me, I’ll get my grief and giggles from a tall man. My point is this — if you are a short man, be better than your taller friends. Don’t act like a typical guy. As a black woman I have to put up with a lot of crap in order to keep dating black men with the hope that one will marry me. I’ve tolerated infidelity by looking the other way and acting as if I didn’t know because I felt as if my options forced me to do so. Wrong? Maybe. Reality if I want to get married? Yes. If you are 5’1″ and/or 5’3″ and an attractive woman is dating you and has GENUINE sexual chemistry with you, don’t be an asshole….
GP 474
My post isn’t particularly nice. I’m sorry if I offended any short men with my frank assessment that they should perhaps “try harder” or “be better” than other men. It’s late, long night and I’m just frustrated about a lot of things. Ivy League degrees and granite countertops don’t matter but I mentioned these things because they were important to both these men. Both were high achievers, very successful and I guess this level of success is something that made me not worry about the fact that they were 5’3″ and 5’1″ (to my 5’8″). I’m an attractive black woman who has dated well-educated, successful men who are tall, e.g. 5’10″ to 6’4″ but these men were above and beyond, extremely successful and that was in part why I overlooked the height difference. Their confidence was VERY attractive. Both were “hot” and had great chemistry with me. These were my only two attempts to date short men. The first one I would date again. The second one I was really really angry that he tried to pull immature games on me when I felt I had made a “good faith” gesture towards the possibility of a lovely relationship and/or marriage. But he’s entitle to do whatever he wants to do. If he feels that he should get to act like any other guy and try to be a “player” and mistreat women so that he can have the Doc Love “control” over his women, fine. But maybe an attractive tall woman won’t have the patience for that. I wouldn’t have tolerated that from a tall man and I certainly felt that after a few strikes it was time to call him on the phone and end it for both our sakes. He needed to grow up emotionally and I needed to stop feeling like I was “shortchanging” myself. I made a mistake and thought that dating a short man would lead to being treated better perhaps… that dating a short man I might find a man who appreciated me. But short men act like regular men. So why make the sacrifice or “give” one of your important terms/conditions if you don’t get anything better than what you’d get if you dated a taller guy?
Saint Stephen 475
GP Said:
But short men act like regular men. So why make the sacrifice or “give” one of your important terms/conditions if you don’t get anything better than what you’d get if you dated a taller guy?
What makes short men any different from your regular men? Are you implying that short men act like irregular men just by the virtue of being short?
“Last time i checked both short and tall men were all individuals and not some walking stereotypes”.
Perhaps you also had the option of calling the short guy who pulled games and bluntly tell him you don’t need games and watch if he’ll change (which i presume you would have naturally done if it was a tall guy), rather than calling it off at the slightest hint of “game playing.”
If you are going to rule out all short men simply because of a sour encounter/experience you had with two of them- good luck with that.
Greg 476
@GP
You seem to place all the blame on everyone else for your failures, when your entire post reeks of a severe sense of entitlement. I know plenty of good black women who have no problem getting married to good black men. So its not a problem with black men or short white men. A large part of the problem is you. You need to read the blog post on here that has 500 comments to gain some real insight. First of all men don’t care about your degrees or job, so there’s no need to keep referencing them. Having those things does not increase your status in the eyes of most men. Nor does being educated entitle you to the top pick of men. A kind, unselfish, caring and attractive woman with only a high school education has a better chance of finding a man than a combative, entitled and educated lawyer.
And don’t assume that certain people will act a certain way based on their height or skin color. All black men are not players, and all short men won’t behave like those guys. Men are men. You have to get to know them and judge them based on character.
And by the way, I went to school with and also work with several black engineers who are under 30 and married to black women. So if that’s your preference then you can definitely find someone to “close the deal.” You just have to make yourself into the right kind of woman Believe me men will be bending over backwards to marry you!
Also one of the sweetest and most giving girls I’ve ever met was a 5’8″ Ivy League law student. She happened to be black too, but she told me that she never judges by outward appearances (height, color etc.), but gets to know the persons heart. I would definitely marry a girl like her. If you are a woman like her, you will have no problem finding men short or tall who want you.
J 477
GP, we have a lot in common. I’m also Black, tall (5’10″), pretty and an Ivy grad.
I know the media is having a field day with the ‘black women aren’t getting married’ and ‘there are no black men left’ thing right now, but truly, it does no good to focus on it. I’m not denying there is a grain of truth in what they are saying but the larger point is- it doesn’t matter. You are already not the norm regarding most statistics- why believe you will all of a sudden turn ‘average’ when it comes to the frightening ‘black women aren’t getting married’ statistic?
I think most women in metro areas like NY are not finding men in their 20′s rushing them down the aisle to get married- lots of factors come into play their aside from race. Nothing is inherently wrong with that. You are already more open than the vast majority of women by opening up your dating criteria to include men several inches shorter than you; don’t get discouraged, keep your open attitude and don’t believe the hype about Black people not getting married
Joe 478
IMO, I think the barrier for short guys is a lot less than people think, but only if you do it in a social setting, not in an online profile. This way you can show off your best attributes, which is personality. (And anyone who thinks this means being a nice guy really should get their head checked).
The online dating thing doesn’t really work that well with shorter guys because it’s all listed. It’s very clinical and sanitized and women will think in terms of what attracts them better logically.
The great thing for shorter guys is this: Women don’t think logically when it comes to attraction. I’m sorry, but it’s true. I’m 5’4″ and if I believed that women weren’t attracted to shorter guys I’d have been single forever, but I’ve been in several long term and fulfilling relationships, currently in one now and the women I dated NEVER would’ve thought about dating a shorter guy until they met me. My current girlfriend stands taller than me with heels on, and I call her my Russian model.
I’ve had women give me their numbers within the first hour of talking with them, wanting, at the very least, to go out on a date with me because of how carefree, easy to talk to, confident, funny, cocky and observant I am.
So just to finish up: both men and women can psychoanalyze and rationalize all you want. I think almost any woman would date a shorter guy. The shorter guy just has to disregard any garbage ideas he’s built up in his head and just go for it. I think short guys do more often than taller guys it’s over analyze things. So just shut up and go for it and stop worrying because it isn’t going to get you anywhere.
Joe 479
By the way short guys: Acting like crusaders is also a big no no, as this implies that you have an issue with either your height, what other people think or both.
Once you step into the “how do I make this person treat short people equally?” question and start arguing all over the place will people recognize you have issues with your height and then lay down the “Napoleon Complex” stuff and other counterpoints that really don’t help anyone at all except for more arguing.
You bring people into your own world, not the other way around. If your world is built around being an attractive, cocky, funny, affable guy then you’re in the clear.
If you’re trying to come up with a re-frame of mind that can help, I like this one: I’m the condensed version – more awesome in a smaller package.
Erin 480
Why don’t I like short men? Because human nature standards have told me not to mate with short guys. That’s because the best genes for survival are the ones that people are always striving to reproduce, the short gene in men NOT being one of them! I am not physically attracted to short guys in any way shape or form. It’s a form of protection because they can protect you, they are more dominant in life in general, and you don’t feel like you’re taking care of a baby. I’m 5’8 so i would never have a shorter guy than me, especially 5’3. At the end of the day, it’s all an individuals tastes and preferences, but don’t make woman feel bad for what they want. It’s just life! Life will NEVER be fair. Woman already have to deal with sexual discrimination so you know what, the least we could get is a solid choice in partners, with physical attraction being just as important. If a girl doesn’t want to have sex with a man because she isn’t attracted to him, how in the world are they going to reproduce? Naturally it makes sense that women have specific standards that are set in stone primitively that help evolve and adapt better to life in terms of physical standards of guys. Hopefully that made sense, but i think it’s just a natural human issue, nothing that is “being unfair” or “picky”. Taller guys are better for evolution for the things i mentioned above.
Greg 481
@Erin 480
Evolution has nothing to do with this. What evolutionary benefit is there to men liking women with long hair? Even if evolution had something to do with this, how is a tall man healthier than a short man. And we all know that in human society brains outweigh strength every time. So this whole evolution stuff is garbage. You don’t want to feel bad about your choice, but you insult short men by saying that they make you feel like your taking care of a baby. How demeaning! They can’t control their height. I’m not a short man so I’m not personally offended, but I’ve learned that I shouldn’t judge people as inferior just because I’m not attracted to them. Some women can’t help that they have big foreheads, noses or no breasts. But that doesn’t prevent me from seeing them as great people, or assuming that a prettier woman is a superior partner. Wise people throughout history have known that mere appearances are not the true measure of a person. We are not animals.
Michael17 482
I say: we like what we like. There’s nothing really wrong with Erin’s preferences. I mean, I am human and I find it frustrating when I am on the wrong end of someone’s preferences (height, the “chemistry” thing), but it’s their choice and they don’t need to justify it to me. I have preferences of my own too…
Saint Stephen 483
@MIchael17
No one is saying that there is anything wrong with Erin’s preference, but insulting short men and using unfounded evolutionary basis to justify her preference- is wrong and bullshit in my view.
I had initially wanted to respond to her post before Greg beat me to it, and no i’m not short- Hence i don’t feel personally offended but i felt her comment was a pure and complete insult to short men. Like all short men are inferior and tall men are the best. I don’t consider myself better than someone just because i happen to tower a few inches above them and last i checked people didn’t need height to become lawyers, doctors, engineers and even presidents. Furthermore if you go through history you will discover that some of the greatest men that ever lived were short men, so again i don’t understand how procreating with the best genes translated into procreating with tall men.
If you witnessed the other- men who go to strippers club thread- she openly expresses her displeasure on men objectifying younger hotter women as sex objects while she objectifies tall men as bodyguards. She believes is okay for her to be attracted to taller men and act on the attraction, while men should simply suppress their urge or possibly desist from acting upon their attraction for younger hot women with great bodies. That’s hypocrisy in my opinion.
It saddens me how many women will wind up lonely or in abusive marriages because of their shallow mentality.
LaMonaBlanca 484
Wow I sat here and read until my eyes burned. I can @ least understand most male posts but the women…? I seem to be very odd in comparison to all of them. I am twentysomething, 5’3 110lbs all muscle, Brazilian American female. I have only ever “dated” three men, went on dates with several. The several all older business men. One comes to mind the most, he is quite shorter then I am, by almost a foot Asian, Filthy Rich, Drop dead Hot middle aged man… ended @ date 6.
Every my size or shorter guy since then = SAME!
-Hot/Amasing dresser/Poised
-0 metro/feme qualities @ all
-Family oriented
-Educated renissance man
-Hate I am very fit, conservative.
-Insist me Always in stiletoes and miniskirts.
-Start arguments w/other ppl over nothing while we are out.
-Always spending money tons of money, in a show off way.
-Think I am into every tall person in the room !!!Yuck!!!
I nor my friends have ever hight discriminated, just I don’t know why ppl all over are so self whatever and try and overcompensate, or try and find falt in me to “feel” more “equal” or go out of the way and break trust/chemistry so I dump them. Tom I am not saying you yourself are like this just never met a guy that claims/feels short not be. Both my father and Brother are well under 6′… and severly overcompensate as well. + online? my sister found my brother in law online but more often then not ppl aren’t how they see themselves and that is what they post their own view.
Nina 485
About four months ago I met an amazing guy and there was only one problem..he was about 6 inches shorter than me/
I was hesitating whether i should go out on a date with him or not, so I read many on-line forums where women admit that they like taller guys for the wrong reasons, mostly not height-related (i.e. feeling of protection, ability to be little and fragile, etc.). I think all those women are just too insecure to do smth, which is not commonly practised by a society.
So when I finally started going out with the guy I started realizing how insignificant for the love life the height difference is. He actually protects me and I feel safe with him, he’s very gentle and loving and Great in bed, and now whenever i go out with him – i do not even notice people staring at us because he’s the only person i’m looking at:)
So, ladies, enjoy great men, not sizes! cause otherwise ur just being a duplicated version of men, dating only models or girls with big boobs…
Rudy 486
Attraction is what it is and is usually out of our control.Why judge people for their emotional response to another human being. I am attracted or not.If the stats show a propensity towards certain types that is just the way it is.Unfortunate for sme frtunate for others.
Saint Stephen 487
@Rudy
Attraction can be influenced and isn’t out of our control. I’m naturally attracted to plus sized women with big ass and boobs (yeah- weird? I know), but my present girlfriend is far from that, she’s thin looking to me but average sized to others. Though besides her body size she’s every other thing i want, she’s smart, attractive, has a good character/heart, intelligent (a medical student), and religious to boot. So should i have avoided/or leave an amazing woman just because she doesn’t fit into my ideal standard of attraction?
Secondly, your assertions about it being an emotional response is false (Emotion has to do with feelings and you can’t feel anything for someone you don’t know yet). I’ts a psychological response which can be worked upon. Countless times I’ve seen emotion throw away peoples reasoning, exactly the way it did to my elder sis who said she would never date a short man and gave all the reasons for it only to end up in love and eventually got married to a short man- much shorter than herself.
Ladies will do well to give a short man who possess 80 to 90% of the qualities they want a chance, as he might just be her long awaited soul mate and prince charming. Remember the famous saying- Great things comes in small packages.
Orange Rhino 488
Mara (47) argues that we have never had a short president. This telsl us more about Mara than about evolution. James Madison, principal author of the U.S. Constitution and president from 1809–1817, was 5’4″. That’s five-feet four in case my fickle laptop is acting up again. My experience suggests that women seem to prefer tall guys who can make a lot of money but do not have very much higher education. Where I work nearly everyone has a PhD, and we have a very large single and divorced population of males.
Carla 489
I’m 5’2″. I very much dislike standing on my tiptoes to kiss my guy, so I prefer shorter men.
I realize I am a minority, but I wanted to indicate that the minority exists.
Mike 490
I’m short, 5’7. It doesn’t bother me if some even a majority of women want to date taller men. What bothers me is they constantly complain when they’re rejected for not being hot enough, not having big tits, not living up to the celebrity weight standard, etc.
Can’t have it both ways.
In Love 491
I am an attractive, easy-going, college-educated, tall woman (5’8”). Men I’ve dated over the years have always been tall (which for me, is my height or taller) for the simple reason that I could not be attracted to a man shorter than me.
BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED. I met the love of my life, and he is a good three inches shorter than me. And you know what? I found myself extremely attracted to him, despite his height.
Moral of the story: Give love a chance with a nice guy, because when you love them, nothing else matters. You WILL find your love, no matter what package it comes in.
DianeM 492
Sam (2) said, “unlike being overweight, being short does not mean you are physically incapable of things.”
Wow. I can’t believe you said that. Let me give you my backstory. I was 155 while I was in the army, and I passed my PT tests. I was 170 and 180 when I did my two marathons. I was between 165 and 175 when I had a couple of successful mountain bike racing seasons. I’m back up to 200 after having to move to an area with no outdoor adventures (flat farmland) due to a job loss. I am now working again and slowly getting back into a regular exercise schedule. It’s really hard, especially with it getting dark before 6 p.m., and darkness makes me tired; however, I managed to get out for a two-hour bike ride, today.
People do *not* think I look 200 lbs. I am very athletic. I’m not always fast, but I have endurance. I am perfectly capable of doing things. I am not handicap because I’m overweight. I also have a great resting HR and a low BP, which is a hell of a lot better than many skinny people have. My blood vessels are perfectly healthy (my previous job was ultrasound, and I could look at myself).
Moral of the story: overweight women are not unable to go out and have good, hard, physical fun. In fact, some of us can probably kick your butt doing a few things. Instead of avoiding overweight women, it would be worth it to figure out whether the one you might be interested in is active. If she is, then I’m pretty sure that she’d be grateful if you would spend time with her while doing some of her favorite activities. You might actually discover a great woman, and you might actually help her rev up her metabolism.
Horace 493
Hey DianeM 492,
FYI, most overweight women won’t go near or even consider a shorter man a worthy option. Why? A bigger woman, especially if she’s taller or weightier almost always has self-issues being larger than the man. She can’t deal with the public making fun of her size, calling her names and being compared to the smaller guy on her arm. I have yet to meet ONE, SINGLE, SOLITARY woman who is comfortable being the taller and bigger person in the relationship equation. Big and tall women avoid these situations at all costs which is why they seek the image sheltering nature of a taller man. It’s way easier for women to hide behind the tall guy because his size and height takes away from her size and imperfections.
I’m tough, fit, strong, atheletic, yet not as muscled when I was in my youth. It really doesn’t matter how fit and good looking a shorter guy is. He is still SHORT which makes him unnattractive to the majority of women socialized by western culture. I can’t see how grateful you say an overweight woman would be if she has initial trouble including a shorter guy for her lifestyle activities. The key is getting past his lack of height which is still extremely hard for a lot of women look past. The short guy can be a total catch, a quality guy, educated and fit with good values. In the end it doesn’t matter because his height is the first thing he’s going to be judged by and this is where the discrimination lies.
The only thing that trumps height is the almighty dollar. A thick wallet adds inches to any guy. A short guy can do well for himself with women if he’s got the cash to burn. It’s best to have a back-up plan or an additional bank account with readily available funds because she won’t stick around as soon as the money runs out. It’s all over the courts in todays world.
Brian 494
“I’ve dated all kinds: short, bald, and Asian. I’m 5’4 and very petite so I always feel that the men are bigger than me. Personally, I don’t like to date men taller than 5’10, otherwise I have to stand on my toes to kiss them and my neck gets sore.
That being said, the shortest man I dated was 5’6. Right now I’m in love with a bald man who hovers around 5’10.”
I wish there were more girls in the world like this.
Josh 495
Horace, I disagree with some of what you said… I think it does matter how fit and good looking a shorter guy is, just as it matters how fit and good looking a taller guy is. So many tall guys I see today are ill-proportioned and have slumping shoulders, whereas I at a little over 5’7″ am built better than I would say 90% of males out there… not being conceited, just calling it like I see it. I do think it helps when, as a male, you are taller than the average female… so being 5’6″, 5’7″, 5’8″ ish still makes you as tall as or taller than 75-85% of females (I would guess), whereas it’s a tougher game probably being in the 5’2″ish – 5’4″ish game… but at the end of the day I like to think how someone is put together overall physically matters. And personality/who you are matters too. I know for me physical attraction is much more complex than simply how big some girl’s tits are… it has to do with proportion than some simple stat. On a dating website, I could never see myself saying only C cup or larger message me… to me that’s just stupid, even though I generally like larger breasts, just as I think it’s kind of stupid for a, say, 5’4″ girl to list only, say, 5’11″ + to message her. Limiting your dating pool based on one-dimensional statistics just doesn’t seem smart, because there might be other PHYSICAL things that are harder to put into a stat that you might like about someone upon meeting/experiencing them, even if on one stat they aren’t your preference.
niki 496
I, a woman, have no sympathy for the shorter man. I am 5’10” and weigh about 140. there is nothing physically wrong with me. I am confident enough in myself to be completely comfortable with any healthy man, be it 5’4” or 6’4”. i have been told a handful of times by men i truly liked that they will not date me because i was noticeably taller than them. I have yet to meet one that is comfortable enough with himself to be ok with dating a taller woman. so im guessing my question for your friend is… would he be willing to date a significantly taller woman? if not maybe he should reconsider what he is asking. you cant have your cake and eat it too.
Linz 497
We’re all the same height lying down. <3
Jeff 498
It’s a pretty raw deal us short men have in life, especially in love. Like the article says, we can be intelligent, successful, make good fathers etc.but still we will have far fewer chances at having kids than a deadbeat violent man who is a few inches taller. I can’t help but imagine all the talent wasted when surpassing short men for taller ones down the generations – sure your child will be taller, but will they be raised the right way? I can think of a few short men from history, full of talent in their own fields yet ultimately all of that is lost as he fails to find a partner to pass on what he learnt. Meanwhile a short tempered taller man with nothing to contribute (but his height it seems) to his offspring manages to father multiple kids.
Which brings me onto the next issue – the Napoleon Complex, being temperamental, trying to compensate because of his height. Well, if you are frequently told by tall men and most women – all strangers – that you’re short, you must have a complex – wouldn’t that get to you? Of course, when a tall man gets angry, goes beserk, beats up and shouts at his wife etc. – that’s not Napoleon at all, that”s just a man being angry…. but apparently, short men need to never lose it otherwise they’ll be branded Napoleon…
Also about overcompensating, trying too hard – well yes, that’s we do, because if we were just like any other average man – as all the women here have crudely explained (but more on that later) – we’d be completely ignored! And as mentioned in the article, even if we do excel at things, have talents, crack the funniest jokes, have the best social skills – ultimately it amounts to nothing because of ONE UNCHANGEABLE ATTRIBUTE THAT WE HAVE NO CHOICE OVER. So apparently (and I suppose this goes for Asian men in the west too), through the apparent sins of being born a certain way, we are not allowed to experience love, to have children.
Now, think of another demographic for women that has it hard – fat women, old women. Notice how society, through ample doses of media brainwashing, have treated them differently. Sure there are pressures to be “thin”, but there are just as many media stories, magazines, adverts, campaigns etc. that promote “big and bubbly”, curvy, rounded, “real” women… add to that, any man who flat out says to fat women that they are fat is scorned – just compare that to the blunt comments here about short men by women, as if we were subhuman and unworthy of respect, basic HUMAN dignity. We also don’t have an established media backing, something that big women can refer to and be represented in. Short men… well they shouldn’t be seen or heard it seems!
Jeff 499
496 niki
We should meet up. It’s a rare thing to find a tall woman who doesn’t draw out the “well I need to feel secure too, that’s why I need a bigger man!” line… that IS a sign of total self confidence. Though I find it hard to believe shorter men have turned you down if you yourself had no issue with it.
Btw I’m not some loser who hinges all his life’s failures on height – it is just fact. Women do not, in general, want shorter men, no matter how better they are in other areas than a tall man. I would argue this applies in careers too, tall men (over 6ft) make up the majority of CEOs in the top companies.
But at least with business you can start your own! It isn’t the same for love, where it solely depends on other parties outside your control.
Shaswata P 500
Jeff —-The author of The Game , Neil Strauss, is 5’6 and has seduced to bed hundreds of women……I don’t know (more on that a bit later) but it seems when it comes to attracting women (be it for one-night stands, sleeping partners, girlfriends or wives) all out social skills of pick-up artistry seems to have all the answers….. I am 6’1 ,24 years old and have tried to live a celibate, chaste life till now because of my commitment to spirituality….But I am in a transition mode right now and contemplating whether I should dip my toes in a hedonistic lifestyle…I have left the next couple of years or so for a contemplative time regarding which decision to make (if my spiritual progress improves meanwhile I will decide against it) ..That’s why I have started to visit these blogs to learn the ways of the world…I have a very close friend who is 5’7 and although time and again he has confided in me that he is jealous of my height he has had absolutely no problems in pursuing flings, affairs, girlfriends, one night stands what have you….and is probably going to marry his girlfriend who is 5’6 just an inch shorter…
I am starting to be conducive to the idea that if extraordinary success in your life with women is what you are looking for then all out social skills as espoused by Mystery and Neil Strauss might be the answer…………….Hope you consider that
Ron Diggity 501
As a realtively tall guy, and solely as an outside observer of this: You like what you like, and you don’t like what you don’t like – as long as women can admit they are being superficial, I guess it is what it is. Not suprisingly, instead of owning up to this shallowness, we find women trying to shift the blame on short men (ex. “probably has a Napoleon complex”, “makes me feel fat” – uh, no you are doing that to yourself, one way or the other).
Perhaps it would help put into perspective to women their own flaws such as rapidly depreciating attractiveness and accumulated emotional & sexual baggage, to develop some empathy and be more open to dating guys who are shorter
Horace 502
Hi Niki 496, I have a question for you.
Is your lack of sympathy for short men based on previous negative dating experiences with them? I can say the same thing about tall women. I have no sympathy for you but I can understand how some tall women endure the same dating difficulties as short guys. Height is still the measuring stick that society continues to unfairly associate quality in men. Some will disagree with me here but I strongly believe short women and tall men get preferential treatment in the dating world. They seek each other out exclusively. Tall men know that their height places them at the top of the dating chain. Most importantly, it means he can get away with treating his current girl like dirt because his replacement girl is always ready and waiting for him. In some cases a woman openly accepts being treated like dirt as part of the “bad boy” package that goes with dating the tall trophy a$$hole guy. There are certainly no shortage in numbers of the common taller man/shorter woman relationships. At the same time there’s no shortage of women suffering in abusive relationships, dominated by taller/bigger guys. Short girls hold out for the taller guys because they know his masculinity is contingent on him being taller than she is. Lots of tall guys have strong fears of feeling emasculated by a taller woman so they chase after the short girls. These short ladies take advantage of this attention thrown at them, so they discriminate against short guys because they can. I’ve been rejected by both short and tall women because of my 5’6 self but I don’t expect pity from anyone. Needless to say the harshest rejections have always come from the taller ladies. I still pick myself up off the ground, keep smiling and approach the next woman confidently with no preconceived notions of failure or any negative residuals whatsoever. If you truly liked a short guy that gave you grief and rejected you for being taller, he’s not man enough or worthy enough to date you! Too bad for him! I would have welcomed you with arms wide open and let our personalities decide the fate of the relationship.
Niki, I’m guessing from your post that you are a quality, equal opportunist woman that doesn’t care a whole lot about a mans height? Right? Do you have a preference in a mate like most people do? Do you like being taller than your guy without fetishizing his short frame? Some tall women really get off on being the taller, dominant, stronger, person in these type of relationships? I often wonder where in the world are these tall ladies who like shorter guys? Is it just me or does it seem like short guys and tall girls are trying to connect with the wrong, shallow, and superficial types? For me, it’s absolutely “not” a fetish to like a taller woman but an honest, natural feeling of attraction. I don’t have a desire to be dominated by one either, unless it’s behind closed doors………….. sometimes LOL!
Niki, thanx for not shoving us short guys under the bus and for not coming here to insult like some have. Don’t stop looking down too! There are short guys who really like taller women and don’t have a problem with the height difference or the high heels you choose to wear.
Happy New Year!
Matt 503
This topic has always hit home for me. I’m 35, 5’4 and I weigh 125 lbs, sometimes less. That really has had a huge effect on my romantic life.
Ive unfortunately found that no matter how thoughtful, funny or romantic I am.. it is not enough to make me very attractive to women. Ive lost track of the number of women who have told me they would never date me solely because of my size.
When I meet women online, I am always reluctant to let them know just how small I am. Once I do, its like flipping a light switch. Im no longer attractive. Just a nice guy. Its sad and funny at the same time how quickly it happens.
Its ok, I do understand attraction isn’t something you can control. But, it is not very fun being on the losing end of the deal. I continue to hope and pray someday I will meet someone. But in all honesty Ive prepared myself to always be alone.
I realize this can certainly work both ways. Ive heard taller/larger females say that they sometimes feel invisible to the opposite sex. That is exactly how I feel as a smaller male.
My closest friends have typically been women, I love their company. It is a painful reality for me that I rarely succeed in proving I have much more to offer than that.
Not sure what my point with all that is. I guess it is nice to vent, this has been probably the most painful aspect of my life for me. Hopefully someday people will put more value on the inside than the outside. Oh and world peace too.
DMC 504
I’m 6’6″ and as someone who has benefited from this preference, I have to say, short guys do get a raw deal. Casual dating is bad enough, but when women who are serious about a real relationship make this an issue….I got to say, I think it’s a real black mark on their character.
Also, knowing a lot of taller women, I can say most do have a dominate-the-man mentality, trying to use their height to make shorter guys feel less secure. When I question them about this, they just chalk it up to “love is a battlefied” mentality. Sad
Sharon 505
I’m 5’11. I only ever dated men who were my height or taller. This is not because I don’t find shorter men attractive, but because I always wanted that romantic feeling of being in his arms, looking up into his eyes…you know, the whole sappy fairy tale movie thing. Additionally, I love to wear heels and this intimidated EVERY single guy who wasn’t at least 6 feet tall. Anyway, I’ve been in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend for a year now and he is just 5’4. I’m not going to say it isn’t awkward (for the both of us!) and that we don’t feel uncomfortable with people gawking at us – because I’d be lying. It is uncomfortable and some people suck. But he is a total sweetheart and he is ridiculously handsome and I love him.
PS) I was never attracted to guys OVER 6’2. There is such a thing as too tall to me.
Jen 506
I’m a curvy, attractive, and successful women and stand 5’9″ (6′ with heels). For years, I’ve been a strictly 6′ and over dater claiming there was no possible way I could be EVER be attracted to someone shorter than me. This past fall, I broke my own rule and went out with a guy who was 5’6. Even though I found him handsome, I was not attracted to him and thought I had proved my point. And then in December, this 5’7″ guy approached me in a bar and play pool with him (and his 6’2″ friend). I spent the night talkiing to both guys, assuming I’d leave with the tall guy. Well, guess what? By the end of the night, I could not keep my hands off the shorter guy. I still think about him and think “man, that guy was HOT”.
What did I learn?
Height really has nothing to do with anything. It’s a man’s confidence and his sexiness. The first short guy had this apolegetic “I’m not worthy” quality to him that I found repulsive. The second short guy? There was nothing apologetic about him
.
kathleen 507
Really? Is this man available? I love men short tall whatever…..it is about who he is not how tall he is. I am 5’3″ and I love my height! I have a friend who is the same height as I am and if he were available? Oh I would date him in a heartbeat! He is attractive, funny, outgoing and makes me feel beautiful! Short doesn’t mean anything but a number like age it is a number.
Mike B 508
It seems there is nothing can be done. Being smart, funny, and attractive means nothing if it comes in a smaller package. I’m a short guy. the only women who will usually say yes to a date are foreign, typically asian, who are on average shorter anyway. even being athletic and in medical school isn’t enough to not be dismissed at hello. Must be a north american problem. seems like giving up is really the only decision i can control.
Huh? 509
Is comment #3 kidding? I’m a guy, 5’8.. How do you feel as if you’re my mother if I’m taller than you? I’d feel like you were a child, honestly, and think it’s laughable that you’d feel similar when I could probably see over your head.
If a woman ever said something condescending/insulting as comment #2 claimed, I’d simply tell her to fuck off, and get a 6’2 boyfriend to fight me if she’s unhappy with what I’d said. My best friend’s 6’2 with a heavier built than myself and I have no troubles sparring with him.
I’m perfectly happy with my height, but I don’t appreciate ignorant, shallow people trying to make me feel bad or second guess something that is inherently neither good nor bad. And maybe some guys wouldn’t have napoleon complexes if people didn’t write them off as too weak or whatever condescending ignorant bullshit they can think of.
What vexes ME is how a girl who happens to be 5’6.5 thinks a 6 foot tall guy is the perfect physical fit for her. No. Not if you think the guy makes a guy like me look like a child. What do YOU look like, then? A dwarf?
Unless you’re 5’9 or taller, don’t consider yourself a “tall” lady. You’re not tall, the same way a guy who’s in the 5’7-5’9 slightly below average (5’10) range is not short. A 4’11 dwarf is short, and for a guy within the normal range of height to consider himself in a real physical disposition isn’t thinking clearly.
I’m roughly 5’8, and I rarely have to “look up” at anyone.
Kim 510
I am a white woman and actually prefer to date Asian men. I have dated 6′ tall broad shouldered Asian men and some the same height as myself 5’7″. I find they are for the most part very attractive, very clean cut, polite and gentlemanly and they really prefer white women. I have no problem with it at all. currently dating one right now!
As for bald, I dated a “going bald” guy 6’4″ btw. It was not fun, he was soo concerned about it, I wished he would just shave it off but he would not. Always wore ball caps and was annoying to me. Really just shave it off.
As for height, I am a taller than average woman 5’7″ so I tend to prefer someone in the 5″10″ or taller arena. I think shorter men should really stick to their height or shorter, most taller women do not want to date them as it makes us look so huge.
As for fat men, that’s easily solved, just work out… not a huge issue at all but I do prefer a man with some meat on him but not grossly fat or totally out of shape. A little chunk is ok
kevin 511
well..i am 5’5 1/4″ according to my physical 6mths ago and im 25yrs old. I make a solid 6 figure income for the last 3 yrs and i am told evry day how cute i am by some body (woman and man). the honest truth is women that are not insecure about themselves dont care how tall a man is. If he is clean, has a nice body (build muscle). has a nice smile. and keeps a nice masculine shave, and smells nice.
I once had a woman with two kids, overweight, not attractive , tell me im too short for her..LOL
On the other hand all my exes are head turners, my curent girl friend gets all the attention when we go out because of how pretty and well figured she is..oh and she pays for my drinks when i have no money on me..she is 5’5 flat.yes with heels im shorter..
Ive had women from 5′ to 6’3″ sit on my lap.. The truth, the fact is not that the man is not attractive. rather the women are insecure about what other people may think , or how they would feel outside of their comfort zone. Ive learned to pay insecure women no attention, they dont deserve it..and they dont deserve me.
Kratos 512
I’m 5’7″ and I’ve completely given up on internet dating because of my height. Women see that and they don’t bother reading any further. It won’t matter how great your profile is or how witty your message was. This is why some guys have to meet women the old fashioned way. It’s the only way that you’ll get the attention and the time to let your personality shine.
Jess 513
I love a short man and not all of them have a napolaen complex. Some guys love being short and make up for their lack of height with a great attitude, brains, talent or charm. I am only 5′ and hate the idea of having to reach a long way up just to kiss a guy. I am also a blackbelt in karate and don’t need a guy to protect me. I would prefer a guy who is my equal not some one who makes me feel like a little kid next to him.
Horace 514
Hey Kim 510,
“Short guys should really stick to women their height and shorter, most taller women do not want to date them because it makes us look so huge?”
Shouldn’t you say a shorter man makes you FEEL huge, not LOOK huge? Looking and feeling are two very different things. A shorter man shouldn’t make you LOOK huge if you have self confidence. Why does a shorter guy’s height make you look huge and affect you that way as a person? I can understand a shorter guy’s personality making you feel huge if he’s a complete wimp or wuss, but his physique shouldn’t have anything to do with your own looks. My taller friends, male and female don’t make me look small or feel smaller.
FYI short women hate short guys, average height women hate short guys and super tall women hate short guys. I think short women have the most hate for short guys though. They deal with a lot of the shorter guys approaching them who feel their best chance at a date is with a shorter woman. Very few women actually prefer shorter guys but some do. The brave ones who take the plunge become pleasantly surprised and satisfied! Short guys aren’t necessarily short everywhere LOL! Another thing, 5’7 isn’t that tall for a woman. It’s barely above average height. Tall for a woman is upwards of 5’10. You know, supermodel height.
You are right about one thing. Most taller women don’t like to date shorter guys. The ones who have issues with their own height, weight, and/or looks will always be uncomfortable dating a shorter guy. Even moreso if he’s better looking than she is. 9 times out of 10, a taller, less attractive woman by her own standards will go for the taller guy in order to bring less attention to herself. This is something I’ve discovered with not-so-attractive taller women despite some of them not having any issues with my height or shorter guys. They just can’t be seen in public with a good looking shorter guy. Their fears of being humiliated as the bigger and lesser attractive person of the couple is very real. Good looking, confident, tall women who appreciate MEN of all sizes will date a shorter guy. Him being shorter than her doesn’t affect her as a person. In fact, the confident tall ladies are ten times more likley to be receptive to shorter men, especially the ladies near 6’0 and taller. Most of them over 6’0 don’t have the luxury of choosing men like the shorter girls do. It’s not like 6’0+ guys grow on trees and a lot of these same big men go for super short women. Good looking taller women who behave like complete b**ches to shorter men fight with the short girls for the tall guys attention. It doesn’t surprise me that these ladies with attitude are swimming in the pool of single life, not by their own choice. Why? They are brainwashed in their own arrogance believing their good looks serves as entitlement to date the best quality men. All of this thinking is based on Hollywood’s standards of what is considered good looking in a man. So in essence, tall, snot-nosed runway chicks hold out for the tall, dark and handsomes that may never, ever look her way. Prince Charming comes with his own height baggage and needs a smaller woman to feel like a big man. I can’t say that taller women and shorter men are in the same boat but it must be said that taller men and shorter women do seek each other out.
Linsay 515
I had a relationship with short men and it felt like it was like a joke. When they hug or kiss you it was like cuddling with a third grader. And guys under 5’5 have weird body part sizes. It really gives me the creeps. Its why my friends shut down short guys and laugh in their faces in clubs and bars.
Solas 516
Yeah, so you as a woman will now date short men at 39? But not when younger eh? You are sooo suspect!
SamLB 517
Ok gotta respond to this post by this chick Linsay. Reading stuff like this makes laughing painful. It’s so funny, it hurts!
Hey Linsay,
Many guys under 5’5 are blessed with the one body part that matters the most. You size queens of the world know exactly what I’m talking about hahaha! I’m 5’4 and proud of what I got. Ain’t queer, but I ain’t one of those guys who has to shower in swim trunks after a good workout LOL!
Guess what? Taller women love me and I love them back and then some more!!! The ones with brains help themselves and take advantage of my skills. They know that they’re gonna get the royal treatment behind closed doors and I think they like that I work harder to please them. Haven’t had any complaints yet.
Oh, one more thing. I don’t care about the club scene. You won’t see me frequenting any of those places. Too many pretentious, snot nosed, underdeveloped little girls tripping over their high heels. All they do is dance in a circle and count how many guys hit on them as competition. The idiots feed these girls all the drinks they want in hopes of getting laid. That’s where I come in.
Sayanta 518
Linsay
Your friends sound really nasty. Get some new ones. Laughing at someone bc of their height? Seriously????
SamLB 519
One more thing for the short guys. I take total advantage of the BS Napoleon Complex that society paints on you just for working harder! I don’t lose out to taller people in anything nor do I take a back seat to anyone. I’m not an asshole, but supposedly all women hate assholes and want nice guys? The dumb ones just keep dating the same idiots who treat them like crap in thinking they can tame him or change him. So sad that some of these girls learn the hard way(no pun intended). I strive to be a better man every day and there’s not one reason for any man of any height to not want to do the same. I don’t get mad, lose sleep or break a sweat if a chick rejects me. Just move on to the next. When I get with one of her girl friends, the good gossip about me is all the report card I need. Now it’s my turn to have them fight over me LOL! You’d be amazed at how some groups of girls want to share the short guy experience with each other they so vehemently denied for years. All it takes is one girl, taller or shorter, with a lot of friends who aren’t shy about foolin’ around with a shorter guy. They are out there guys, really they are. Sometimes hard to find but these women do exist. It also helps to have a good body and be fit. If you’re out of shape, do yourself a favour and GET IN SHAPE! It’ll make you feel good and your body will thank you! Most importantly, the more inches you take off your waist means more inches where it counts! Good luck to all and don’t let the women on this forum get you down. There’s a whole world of chicks who are single, lonely and lookin’ to hook up with you. If you have to travel and make new ground, DO IT. Just don’t sit, complain and do nothing. Get out there are start talking to chicks!
thomas t samaras 520
Contrary to popular opinion short people have definite advantages when viewed objectively.
I have researched human body size for over 3 decades and have concluded that we would be much better off if the human race was shorter and lighter. The findings are summarized in the book: Human Body Size and the Laws of Scaling.
The facts for my conclusions are summarized below:(Assuming we are comparing shorter and taller people of the same body proportions.)
1. Shorter people are stronger for their body weight. They can lift themselves more easily and that’s why gymnasts tend to be small. In soccer they have been found to have greater endurance and move faster. In weight lifting, they can generally life more weight in relation to their body weight compared to taller people. Suleymanoglu won 3 Olympic gold medals in weight lifting. He was 4’11 and 130 pounds.
2. Shorter people have faster reaction times.
3. Shorter people have better long-distance endurance and tend to make good marathon runners.
4. Shorter people can rotate their bodies faster.
5. Shorter people require less food and resources, such as metals, energy, and water.
6. Shorter people leave a lighter foot print on the earth; e.g., less garbage and air/water pollution.
Because of prejudice, shorter people may not be recognized for their abilities and intelligence. Selection for height explains why more leaders and executives are taller than average. However, there have been many short great achievers:
Science: Charles Steinmetz, Einstein, Millikan, Michelson, Mead, Buckminster Fuller, and McClintock (four received Nobel prizes)
Business and finance: Onassis, Andrew Carnegie, Hebert Haft, Mayor Bloomberg, David Murdock and Armand Hammer.
Athletics: Muggsy Bouges, Pele, Tara Lipinski, Olga Korbut, Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Scott Hamilton, Joe Walcott
Music: Mozart, Mahler, Beethovan, Stravinsky
Literature and philosophy : Alexander Pope, John Keats, Will Durant, Voltaire, Kant, Jean Paul Sartre, Socrates
Leaders: Gandhi, Churchill, James Madison, Premier Deng, David Ben Gurion, Martin Luther King, Benito Juarez, Attila the Hun, and Alexander the Great
Art: Picasso, Juan Miro, Thomas Benton, Salvador Dali, Michelangelo
There are a number of mortality studies that have found no mortality difference between taller and shorter people. Other studies have found that taller people have lower mortality. Few of these studies have actually tracked subjects over their entire lifespan. In addition, socioeconomic status plays a big role in health and higher economic status is generally tied to taller height. In addition, short people in the recent past have been prone to overweight and obesity. However, I have found many studies that show shorter people live longer. See below.
Holzenberger and associates found that shorter men lived longer based on a 1.3 million sample. The men were tracked from early age to their nineties.
Salaris and Poulain also found that Sardinians are very long lived and they are the shortest people in Europe. They also have the lowest cardiovascular disease in Italy. The shortest people in Sardinia are also the longest lived.
Chan, Suzuki and Yamamoto studied Okinawans and concluded that you have a better chance of reaching 100 years of age if your are short and lean.
Samaras looked at US national all-cause mortality over the entire life cycle and found that the shortest ethnic groups had the lowest mortality; e.g., Asians had lower mortality compared to taller Latinos, Native Americans, Blacks and Whites. Latinos and Native Americans were shorter than Blacks and Whites and had lower mortalities as well.
The 2001 CIA World Factbook reported that Andorra, Macao, Japan, San Marino, Singapore and Hong Kong had the highest life expectancy in the world. These populations are relatively short. The tallest Western European nations ranked substantially lower.
ARP Walker also reported that shorter rural South African Blacks have almost no cardiovascular disease. Before the 1970s, the Blacks in South Africa also lived longer than taller Whites. (With changes in diet and life style this may no longer be true.)
Scientists have also observed that within a species, the smaller individual lives longer. That’s why small dogs live longer than big dogs. This pattern has been seen in mice, rats, horses and Asian vs African elephants. In humans and animals, smaller females live longer than males.
in view of the preceding, the adoration of taller and bigger bodies seems to stem primarily from their greater brute strength and more threatening appearance due to their size. The Japanese admire their Sumo wrestlers and that’s great but the earth can’t sustain a world population of taller and heavier people.
For more information on research papers and books related to height and its ramifications, go to: www.humanbodysize.com
Nicole 521
I know this thread is ages old, but I just wanted to offer my experience. I’m 5’5″ and fairly petite. The love of my life is 5’2″ (though, he’s fairly built). I had some apprehensions about dating him initially because of the height difference, but his personality is amazing, he’s sexy, and he’s just so much fun to be around that I got over it really quickly. It also helps that he has no insecurity about it (or, at least he doesn’t let on if he does): he jokes about it sometimes, he has witty responses for when other people tease him, and most importantly, he has doesn’t mind me being taller than him (and loves me wearing high heels, ever when they make me tower over him). I’ll admit he’s the first guy I’ve dated who is shorter than me, though I don’t think I’ve ever ruled someone out just because they were shorter.
One thing that struck me in these comments as true was the wanting to feel smaller (or at least not bigger) than my boyfriend. While I’ve never avoided someone for their height, I have avoided men “smaller” than me (in terms of body frame/weight). It’s not something I’m proud of, but I definitely would find it unattractive to weigh more than or wear larger clothes than my boyfriend. Fortunately, my boyfriend is muscular and built even though he’s short, while I’m rather thin and have a small body frame despite my relative height, so our situation works well for me and my preferences…
Nick 522
Wow, I’m 5’3 and almost 21 and reading all this has almost made me cry. I’m very shy and sensitive with no personality, not athletic, average in the face, average ‘down there’, and recently found out that I’ve got a huge nose.. It’s a freaking challenge for me to even talk to a girl, let alone ask her out, but now I see there’s no point in attempting. You people say oh 5’7 is bad, try being 5’3. I come from a poor family and suffer from depression, I can’t get a job, I have poor health and sometimes starve because the food is too expensive. I can’t afford studying anymore and overall my country is ages behind the developed world(thank god we get interenet which is cheap). Combine all this and then imagine what it’s like being me and the final strike is women despising me apparently. Nice…
Woop 523
This works both ways people. And there’s no accounting for people’s individual preferences. I’m 6-0 and dated a 5-11 girl a while ago. She was VERY well-proportioned, but at that size – I’ll admit it – women start to look, well…manly. I didn’t feel emasculated…just thought she lost some femininity in a significant way.
And I’m always surprised on Match.com how many women who are 5-4 or 5-5 list their height requirement for 6-2+. Whaaa? I’m EIGHT INCHES taller than you and you’re gonna rule me out? Turnabout is fair play.
CeeCee 524
Sure being a short man is tough but being a pear-shaped brick wall with some degree of bow-leggedness who is also very unattractive with bad completion is no picnic either.
Trust me ugly especially if you are a woman is a very tough sell. It also seems if any of us with short comings ever get a date, relationship or something is because we have to learn to settle for almost anyone. Even then they may only consider you because they feel at the time there is no other option out there. It seems that if you want the ideal superficially you have to be ideal yourself.
Of course the media especially and society press upon the fact that dating and relationships are only for average to gorgeous people like Evan.
It just seems that way.
Joe 525
Short, fat, older or Asian can be overcome by being fun.
Unfortunately, you have to get your foot in the door to show a woman that you’re fun.
john 526
i think it is fair to say that about 75% of women want nothing to do with a man (other than him being the “provider”) unless he is in the top 5% of men in regards to looks, wealth, social status, etc…
Saint Stephen 527
Joe
And if you aren’t Danny Devito how do you get your foot in the door first, to show her that you can be kind and fun? No advice on that?
NonExist 528
To the average person physical appearance does matter in initial preferences. So it seems in U.S. culture. A few ladies on here have no issue with it but of the ladies I’ve known 95% say they prefer a taller guy.
Then again I have had a few buddies over the years who ranged from 5′ to 5’4″ and who were very successful in dating a lot of different women.
Their personality stood out more enough that the ladies on intially meeting them gave them a chance.
Still, depending on the culture, being a tall, wealthy, fit, attractive, intelligent, charismatic, honest, and well traveled/mannered man makes one a king amongst men when it comes to women.
tim 529
I’m short 5’5″ asian, degreed, have a decent job, workout regularly. i would say i’m average looking, though some have said i have a good look. some girls on match will write back to me initially, but i normally don’t hear from them again. ultimately when it comes down to it they have so many choices, and if they wait longer, they’ll find someone taller.
I always think about the 20/20 episode in which a group of women said they would only date the 5’0 guy if all the others guys were convicted murderers. short guys are like stray dogs of the dating world. non human, pesky, nobody wants them
Mary T 530
I actually prefer short/medium height men… not sure why. I grew up surrounded by very tall uncles, and generally tall people in our farming community. But I’m definitely more attracted to medium sized men.
and general hotness
BUT – I discovered recently that the short guy still has to be at least as tall as me (165cm). If he’s shorter, it does feel weird! A man shorter than me would have to make up with it with some other form of manlyness
PS. Love asian guys too, if they’re athletic
Joe 531
@ St. Stephen #257:
Alas, I got nuthin’.
Saint Stephen 532
Joe, thanks for your honesty. By the way, I noticed that even EMK didn’t have or share/give any advice on that… well.. except for the acknowledgement that life is unfair for short men. I’d say that this blog post wasn’t particularly helpful to short men since it only serves as a medium for them to vent their dating/relationship frustrations and offer no tips for future success.
Sophi 533
Short guys, just be yourself. I’m 5’8 and I’ve never had a problem with finding a date. I’ve dated shorter, taller, the same height… whatever.
I understand that it IS frustrating for short men… I married a man who was shorter than me and we had a son who is now 20 years old and 5’3 (also has a slight build). He’s very handsome and sweet, but is having trouble finding women willing to see him as more than a friend. But I say to you what I say to him:
Hang in there!! Eventually, women “grow up” and realize that relationships… REAL relationships… aren’t built on stupid, superficial crap, but on long-term compatibility.
Give the “little girls” who need big, dominant daddies time to grow up. Only then will they even be worth your time.
Horace 534
Sorry Sophi, I don’t have a lifetime of eternity to wait for ignorant women to smarten up, take their heads outta their a$$es and change their heightist spots. Why is it so hard for you ladies to look at the world of shorter guys, especially when you’re young, prime, and fertile? Instead, you expect us short guys to wait in vain for you when you’re looking old, haggard and wrinkled? It’s like saying short guys shouldn’t bother with dating and relationships until women are well past their child bearing years and can’t demand the top quality tall guys?
Short guys, a serious word of advice for you. Don’t entertain these old women for anything unless there’s understanding on both sides about the nature of the relationship, especially if it’s purely physical. If you are desperate, than be my guess and dive into the world of these reformed heightists. Don’t say I didn’t warn you because a lot of them can’t change their spots and will drop you like a bad habit for the first guy who’s taller or more physically attractive to her.
At the same time, DON’T give these “little girls” who need and live for the big, dominant daddy type guys YOUR PRECIOUS TIME! They will never be worth your time because your time was never important to them in the first place. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t approach ladies though. Try to go for the ones who don’t see height, even though they are rare and hard to find. They do exist! Some of them are even as tall as 6’0 or more. Not all of them are stuck in the stone age or harbour ill feelings to shorter men.
Paul 535
There is an easy way around the preponderant stupidity of heightism. Date outside this hypocritical country. I am on my early 30′s, a successful physician, an accomplished musician and I won several Surf tournaments in my native Hawaii. I grew up not feeling inferior to anybody. I was appalled when i found that it was easy for me to find sex but not permanent relations when I moved to Boston. I started asking questions to all my exes; the same thing about being too short (and one of them was sincere enough to say also too brown) kept coming up. So, it was fun to date the good looking, funny Hawaiian guy in College; taking him home to meet the parents was a different thing. I ended up moving to Philippines, where I met the most amazing human being ever (my wife now). Short men of the world: there are amazing women out there willing to give you a chance on basis of your good looks, you charm, your sense of humor, your wardrobe, your humanity or your potential. Just get out of our bigoted system. Don’t waste the best years of your life chasing after someone who is not worth it.
Cris 536
So let’s use this logic.
Women want tall men, they overlook the shorter men.
They date and eventually marry the tall men.
A few years later there is a good chance (> 50%) that the relationship or marriage doesn’t work, and separate and get divorced.
So a man’s height is not a good predictor for long term relationships.
So careful what you want in a relationship, that’s all you may end up with,
and nothing else.
Joe 537
@ Paul: it probably helped you that most Filipino men are generally not that tall to begin with.
Tim 538
Chris,
they get the “respect” of friends and family by dating and marrying a tall guy. If he were 5’10″ or shorter they would be like “EWWW gross!…why are you dating him?” just saw a profile of a 5’1″ asian girl, seems like a girl next door, until i saw her preference for 5’10″. don’t understand it.
Sienna 539
Wow!
Stereotype much?
Have you ever been to Asia?
Asian men are NOT all short!
Asian women do not all have flat boobs or butts.
Asian men and women are not all meek individuals.
Do you think Asian people only date a certain type?
It’s the year 2012. We come in all shapes and sizes, and we all have our own tastes in the opposite sex.
Evan Marc Katz 540
Sienna,
The average height of a man in China or Japan is 5’7″. The average height of a man in the United States is 5’9 1/2″. Thus, the stereotype that Asians are shorter than Caucasians is an accurate one. Of course, that’s not what the article is about at all. The article is about how unfair it is when people use height or race against them. The fact that it’s unfair doesn’t make it any less true, and the fact that I reported on it doesn’t mean I endorse it. Please read closer before you accuse me of stereotyping anyone falsely.
Evan
Jadafisk 541
5’10” is one inch taller than the male median height. She’s not being unreasonable to request that from a statistical perspective. Is it the double standard you take issue with – short girls wanting medium height or tall guys?
536. No, they usually just end up with someone taller than them, whether that be by 4 inches or 10, just like a preference for thin women among men doesn’t usually pan out in real life romantic interactions beyond elite men with way more options than most. Most dudes end up with women who are thinner than themselves. Look at couples in the supermarket or the mall. There’s lots of short men holding hands with women. While it’s still rarer to see a Cruise-Kidman type pairing than the inverse, there’s quite a few couples where both partners are equal height. Also, cultural and racial assortative mating have an impact that often circumvents a preference for tall men. Women from groups with shorter men usually marry them because most folks are endogamous and compare based on the average for their particular subset, instead of the entire gamut of human physical variation.
evilbaga 542
Just thought Id answer this with hard facts.
In the U.K only 3.7% of marriages are with a taller female/shorter male.
3.7%!
1 in friggin 27 marriages!
Give up?
Not exactly.
You see, because of average height differentials between males and females – if randomly paired up – only 8.5% of male/female couples would be with a shorter male/taller female.
So 3.7/8.5 = 43% of average. That makes it rarer than average (100%) but far from totally weird.
(For the source of this statistic:
http://personal.lse.ac.uk/sear/pdfs/sear_marlowe.p
or google “hadza height” and to try and find the paper if the link doesn’t work anymore)
Also I read an article by Katie Bolick called “All the single Ladies”
recently – heres a link, but it might not stay active forever -
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/1
which stated that a study found that there had been a 40% increase in the number of shorter male/taller female marriages. I cannot state whether that 40% is after or before the 3.7% stat above. If its before, the calculation stands.
If not, that means its actually 5.2/8.5 = 60%.
Actually Dalton Conoly, a sociologist at NYU did the statistical analysis of a nationally representative sample (in the USA) and found the number to be 4.2% in 2003, up from 3.8% in 1986. So where did the 5.2 number come from? Hard to say (till he publishes his paper, probably in mid 2012). I figure its 4.2 now, but thats only among the young age group due to changing norms… and it will increase to 5.2% if projected to future trends… hard to say…but even 4.2/8.5=50%
Another reason to believe the 5.2% statistic comes from the 2009 edition (NOT the older 2007 edition) of the book “Microtrends” which did an online survey in 2008 and found just over 5% of couples were “Interspatial”, meaning boy shorter than girl. As we dont have access to the raw data, once again… wait for Dalton Conoly’s paper. You can read the relevant 3 pages of the “Microtrends” book by googling “Microtrends Interspatial Couples” and reading it on Google books (at the time of this writing anyway).
In any case, however you look at it, its far from zero. It just seems way rarer than it is because of demographics where only ~ 1 in 12 couples would be interspatial due to average height differentials. (And there certainly is a lot of discrimination, maybe even instinct against it)?
So, to summarize, it happens either 43% or 50% or 60% of the time. And according to Microtrends, it happens a lot more among richer better educated people.
Personally Ive had quite a few taller girls wanting to make me their boyfriend (Im quite short – 5’2). But I could never do it (and maybe it wouldn’t work if I tried?). It was horrible to see those hot girls give up and get a taller boyfriend… so I have a huge interest in these statistics and how they are changing over time.
Still-Looking 543
Evilbaga @542
You stated, “Personally Ive had quite a few taller girls wanting to make me their boyfriend (Im quite short – 5’2). But I could never do it (and maybe it wouldn’t work if I tried?). It was horrible to see those hot girls give up and get a taller boyfriend”
Why won’t you go out with a woman who is taller than you? It doesn’t appear to bother them since you stated they would like you to be their boyfriend. Why does it bother you? Nothing ventured, nothing gained
evilbaga 544
I understand… its an irrational fear… you see, I didnt grow up in the west.. Im just not used to the sexes mixing freely. Perhaps I will be able to in the future… or my phobia will get the better of me for life.
You got to admit though, it is a little unnerving for a woman 3-6 inches taller than you sending you IOIs…for anyone, eh?
Mark 545
If you are short and asian, you are pretty screwed. I’m 5’5, Asian American, and in fairly good shape and most of the women that I can sense are interested are either fat, girls who come out of rehab (seriously.), and shorter Black women. Black women are much more open minded and open to conversation. The Asian women are the worst. Most are 5’2″ height average and they complain about Asian guys being short, even though they are shorter than us. Plus most want white guys so when I see Asian women, I don’t even care or check them out. You have to work hard…and I don’t necessarily have the gift of gab at all hours. I get few results and treasure when I do score. When you get rejected or ignored over and over, it wears you down. And yes, I read the books on dating, confidence building, etc. but it’s still hard to not be discouraged by knowing that my height and race’s incongruence to American women’s desired traits can take my human right of marriage and having offspring. I never thought that a civilized, supposedly more advanced country like the US would have some of the most backwards social values in the world. I never thought that I would say this..but being a fat woman is better than being a truly short guy. You can lose the weight. And there are chubby chasers, no SHORT chasers. The tall a-holes love the really short women and have an advantage since the short women love the tall guys. In summary, it’s hard. And I won’t try to use logic to dissuade women from refusing short guys. But you should know that most women get away with the most discriminatory values and hence lack any kind of sophistication that you falsely advertise. Open your minds…and guys who can relate to my experience,…just keep chopping and the tree will eventually fall.
Joseph 546
I am a 5’5 guy and I’ll just say that this issue is very real. It’s a serious problem that doesn’t look to change for the better anytime soon. Not from what I see pertaining to the women of the western world. I don’t have to look very far to find men who believe American women are light years behind the rest of the world’s women from a social standpoint. This is why more guys today are looking to foreign women for happiness. There are a ton of single moms in the US with baggage. They are starving for short guy loving NOW because their money is running out and they can’t trap a tall “sugar daddy” with their fading looks. STAY AWAY FROM THESE LADIES GUYS! THEY ARE BAD NEWS UNLESS IT’S PURELY PHYSICAL ENJOYMENT.
Many women on this continent still feel that it’s perfectly normal to discriminate against shorter guys with unscientific BS. If you fight back, you get branded with short man syndrome or Napolean syndrome. We’re not allowed to set goals, strive for excellence, live quality lives and be financially sound people. Scary as it sounds, there’s enough women in this world who strongly believe short men are genetic mistakes that have zero practicality in adult relationships. A concentration camp is their preferred choice of residence for all short guys. Don’t kid yourselves, they exist.
My advice is to find your inner self and develop a talent, an art, that nobody can take away from you. Make fitness and proper diet a lifelong priority. Your body will thank you for it. Keep yourself educated and mentally tough even though you willl face a steady stream of BS from both taller woman and shorter women. There are good girls in this world. I know it’s not always easy to do, but don’t let one bitch with attitude affect the way you treat the next woman.
girl 547
Joseph et. al,
I am turned off listening to you about how women are judgemental. Attractive man (with an attractive personality) might mention this but not with depth of hurt feeling you are displaying. Check out Love Systems or other pick up artists stuff – that will give you confidence and get rid of the chip on your shoulder.
Paula 548
The reality is that people are attracted to who they are attracted to and like who they like…
Mark 549
To Girl and all the other women who are mad that women are being labelled as being judgemental:
Uh…if you discriminate a shorter guy, you are being judgmental. End of story. But most women will never admit it. You say it’s a preference at times. But that is being judgmental about the value of a shorter guy. And yet women complain that men want skinnier women. Turn the mirror back to your own self and look for a good while. There is no Napolean Complex. People label it because they aren’t used to or comfortable to a short guy being assertive or even confident. Some do try to compensate for lack of height but isn’t that understandable? Fat women try to compensate with skinnier jeans, more makeup, etc? So it’s NOT a COMPLEX; as if there is something wrong. It’s emphasis on other behavior or skills. The same behavior from a tall guy is labelled “confidence” or “egotistical”. For a short guy..it’s a complex. Give me a break. And for the women saying that this “complaining” is unattractive… it is not complaining..it is shining a light on one of the most prevalent forms of discrimination that is accepted in the US. Imagine if we said women used to “COMPLAIN” about not being paid a fair wage or being able to exercise the political process. It’s a calling for parity. Short guys…we just have to work harder and be more confident despite society making it hard to BE Confident.
girl 550
Yes I do get your point Mark. I am not mad and I am asking you to reconsider calling women judgemental for your sake, not mine.
When you say society makes it hard for you to be more confident, my instinct is to pet you and be a mother to you. It is pitiful and your position is pitiful. And the more you think about it and talk about it, and about how women should be more enlightened, the more your confidence goes down and the more I pity you.
i am sorry that often first instinct of a woman is to go for a taller man. But as long you are sorry too and think about it a lot, it will damage your ‘vibe’ or ‘manly presence’ – plenty of tall guys don’t have these and they are unattractive.
Consider another women’s instinct too. When I am walking in the dark in unknown surroundings, and I suddenly hear footsteps behind me, I am always, always relieved if they belong to a woman.
Do you want to complain about that too and speak at length about how I judge men as villains, and I should reprogram my mind?
Joe 551
Hey girl 547
No chip on my shoulder. None whatsover. I’ve had positive and negative experiences and if my truths are too real for you to swallow, you better wake up to the world that is life. You can’t speak for how I feel because you are a woman. It’s not even worth mentioning as a viable comparison. Unless you’re a guy under 5’8 who can relate to what I’ve said and what some of the other short male posters here have said, you wouldn’t understand. You couldn’t understand for that matter. Women have been getting a free pass at treating short guys like diseases and rendering us worthless in relationships for centuries. All this stuff is predominantly based on height BS that many of you ladies feel is an innocent method of genetic cleansing.
An attractive man with an attractive personality makes no sense when height is the deciding factor. A lot of women measure a guy’s overall quality based on how tall he stands. If you’re ignoring this premise, you’re living in a fantasy world. I don’t need a “love system” nor do I “pick up” girls. I’m well past that stage in my life. I confidently approach women, not girls. My only confession is that I’m biased to the ladies who I feel won’t have issues with my height. It’s still trial and error for the most part.
One guy said it all on this forum and it makes perfect sense. The look on her face will tell me whether I should approach her or not. She’ll confidently approach me if she’s really interested and in doing so, she doesn’t think our height difference, if she’s taller than me is an issue. It never is for me.
Eric Norman 552
Height discrimination is race discrimination.
raz62 553
I’m a bit shy of 5’4″. Open to dating men 5’3″ up to 6’1″. Don’t like a man to be either much shorter or much taller. HOWEVER, I would certainly go out with outstanding men of short stature when their other qualities make them irresistable — Prince, for example, also Michael J. Fox. (although the issue with Fox would be if I could deal with his health problems). Also much taller, I wouldn’t say no to Duff McKagan even though my face would probably be at the height of his belly button. I don’t think any man should think of his short stature as a true flaw. The flaw is in the women who judge that way. A true flaw is something like laziness, or obesity through lack of exercise, or bitterness and mean spirit, or poverty due to irresponsibility, etc. Oh, yes, forgot to mention I was attracted to a few gorgeous Hispanic men who were a good inch or so shorter than me. I guess I’m the lucky one because I was having fun dating these great guys while other women sat around and complained that there are no straight men available.
Tia 554
height is so negotiable, really. i guess my dating criteria has changed over the years given my experiences and i focus on what really matters ( to me) and that is stability, warmt h respect, compassion compatibility, of course some sort of physical attraction has to be there, andn i wont lie if i say the taller ones don’t jump out at me first ( im 5’7) but i certainly have dated men my height or even an inch or 2 shorter. all asian guys are also not short, quite a few tall ones here at least ( nyc) . I am African American generally attracted to that but not to say some cute Filipino/Chinese/Korean couldn’t change my mind and make me wanta some Blasian babies
soulsedge 555
As a man, standing at 5’11″… i would have no issues with dating women who is taller then me(within reason). Although I’ve never had the opportunity, as no taller woman would look at me in terms of dating, it wouldn’t turn me off to do so…as long as our height mismatch was fairly close. (if she was 6’5″+ then I’d probably take issue). But thankfully not a lot of women I’ve met were taller then myself.
i could see the same being said for women(in terms of discriminating against a huge height difference). I guess it’s hard for me to understand why a woman would shy away from a man who may be 1 or 2 inches shorter then herself especially if every other attribute she was looking for was present in that potential mate. But in my short time on this earth, i can count on one hand the number of couples I’ve seen where the guy was equal height, let alone shorter.
I always assumed the women always looked for looks first, security second, sense of humor third. At least that’s been my personal viewings.
While I’m over average height, I’ve had my own personal things to deal with in my life. I use to have a lazy muscle in one eye (aka when i was tired, one of my eyes would turn in a bit). I felt i was in the same boat as short guys, bald guys, or other undesirable traits….for good reason! I had to meet women who were able to look past my physically unappealing attribute that you could notice from time to time when i was tired/nervous, etc. All the women I’ve ever dated(a vast majority were very attractive), said that it was my sense of humor, and the way i carried myself(my presence), and that i was a “very good” guy… that made them interested in me. I think if i had been extremely self-conscious about my eye, then i would have just sabotaged myself. Yet, i carried on, and never made mention of my eye, or tried to explain it, or raise it as a bad attribute to see if they could “deal” with it. Nor did i ever try to sway their opinion.
I guess what I’m trying to say is this….perhaps short men, as some stated, really are sabotaging themselves further, by feeling insecure about being short? I know now, some women are shallow in that they wont date a guy shorter then themselves period, end of story. But I’m sure there are a vast majority that would, but these “short” men are probably sabotaging themselves with these women that don’t mind, because they have a complex about their height, or bring it up as an issue in conversations?
I’m sorry if this comes up incomprehensible to a degree, I’m not the best at putting thoughts onto paper, or in this case a blog. lol.
P.s. i did find a beautiful woman, whom when she was younger had the same eye issue as me(she does not now), who looked past my eye and it did not bother in the least. She’s 5’7″, so while I’m taller, I’m not that much taller!
p.s.s. someone mentioned Tom would not date obese, women. Being short is not a choice, an unhealthy lifestyle or inactivity is, he probably selected that, due to activity restrictions that their potential mate could not perform possibly. I’m sure he’s not completely un-open to a “curvy” woman, as some may do a lot of activities. But you and i know, that this number would be extremely low more then likely. And that an activity level mismatch, does not make for a good relationship match as well. (note: i am in no way saying, because your bigger, your lazy or whatnot, as there are some reasons a big person is “big”, but truth be told, a vast majority are due to lack of exercise, etc, denying this fact, is just putting your head in the sand)
Oh, I’d also like to add, i have since had my eye operated on recently….and you cannot believe the difference in the way women approach me now! I’ve never been flirted with so much, as i have in the past month since my surgery….all because of one flaw! (which was barely noticeable most days!). It’s almost a shame there wasn’t an operation to add a bit of height to someone. Cause truth be told, i know how the shorter guys feel, in a way. I honestly firmly believe, the majority (ie: not all) of women are much more shallow then men! Until recently i always thought men were the more shallow ones!
Chris 556
I don’t get it either. I can understand being cautious. But luckily, even though I knew the height of my guy from the Match.com site, I “met” him over email and phone first. I truly believe I fell in love over the phone. I could not wait to meet him. When I did, it was an adjustment that he was short, but not too bad as I am only 2 inches taller. But he wowed me anyway. And I am madly in love. And he has treated me better than any tall guy out there. Don’t knock it till you try it ladies. Shallow doesn’t get you happiness.
Lisa 557
I am short (five feet ) – My hub is six feet —- Considering the person he is height would have not been an issue period taller or small either way neither would race for that matter. None of those things should matter. Either there is chemistry or there is not, but if you judge on the outward stuff first how will you ever know????
Sabrina 558
Jaya writes: “What’s up with that? Jeez ladies– Leave some of the really tall guys for us taller women. Why won’t you date the guys who are still a good 5″ taller than you?”
I love having someone being able to pick me up and someone who loves me even without my heels.
No offense but… Girls who are taller already have a lot of privilege. Us petite short girls constantly have to wear heels and stilettos to make sure people even notice we EXIST. Even if we are hella attractive, taller girls automatically get seen as more attractive because they’re VISIBLE.
If you think I am lying, I can tell you from life experience that when I wear heels, the way people approach me is so much more different, positive. And I myself feel more empowered to navigate the world because I feel visible.
So yeah, I am going to enjoy being with my 6’3 boyfriend because, I deserve it damnit
James 559
If a tall man is assertive, aggressive, authoritative and arrogant, he is seen as a strong, confident, dominant alpha male. But a short man is seen to have “short mans syndrone” a “Napolean complex” or is compensating for insecurities. Next Short guys are less likely to bully and abuse women, because we know what it’s like. As for protecting women, first, that’s what my brain is for. 2nd after high school age I find I have little opportunity to need to engage in fights. 3rd after years of being picked on we fight with the ferocity of a rabid lion. Also short guys tend to be witty, clever, funny and charming. We rely on our brains and mouths rather than brawn. Throwing you around in the bedroom; I lift weights and do calisthenics.
James 560
I forgot to add, physically I like ALL types of women: short, tall, fat, skinny, blonde brunette, red head, White, Asian Indian, Latina, whatever. But on the inside I’m very picky. I like nice, sweet, thoughtful, considerate, polite, mellow, easy going, humble, down to earth and funny
Joseph 561
Here’s one thing I’ve learned over the years about women regardless of their own height and I believe it’s a firm truth.
Women who choose men on the basis of impressing their girlfriends, co-workers, siblings, parents or the general public are the least happy people. They often make the worst relationship choices because their priorities are backwards and more importantly, their own opinions of themselves has little to no weight in their lives. Woman cares too much how the man on her arm makes her look rather than how she looks herself. She’s lacking self-sufficiency and self-confidence. She needs his taller physical presence to boost or sustain her image. This is not a promising or rewarding type of relationship for any man IMO.
We all know that height represents whate women consider quality in a man. Short guys and quality don’t usually appear in the same sentence. Height does matter guys. So sorry to say but it really does from my experience. Women are lying to you if they told you otherwise. A man can have good looking facial features and a nice fit body but if he doesn’t stand X amount of inches taller, he’s useless to a lot of women. I’m not saying you won’t find love as a shorter guy because many do. It’s just a much harder travelled road frequently paved with more rejection than success.
Thankfully, there is good news for short guys.
Not all women share the same viewpoint on a mans height as the typical bunch of girls who discriminate by high heels. There are women who aren’t so quick to reject a guy if he’s short. A lot do, but some don’t. The most open minded ladies allow themselves to see past height and explore his other qualities that are attractive. You don’t have to be a tall guy to have cut abs, a chiseled chest, muscular arms, sculpted legs or a tight compact butt(which women pay a whole lot more attention to than men know and think). In fact, short guys should take solace knowing that it’s quicker and easier to gain solid muscle mass from working out that tall guys have trouble attaining.
The shallowest ladies ignore the other good features a short guy may have because they refuse to acknowledge anything good about him in the first place. They are hopeless women until they take a good look at the mirror and realize they aren’t perfect themselves. The ones who feel that they are losing their looks with age might expand their dating pool if they’ve kept it closed to shorter men in the past. It all depends on the attention they get from guys in their older years. She won’t change a thing in her old age if she can still attract the hot, young, tall guys and steal them away from the younger girls. Some grow to hate shorter guys even more as they age because they can’t stand the thought of knowing that’s all she can attract in a man. They can’t compete with the younger girls for the tall guys they want so they either take advantage of what’s left or stay single in hopes that a tall guy might engage her. Most of the time, short guys are fair game for the reformed heightist with no shame.
It really is the adult women who behave like little girls though. Many are still stuck in highschool mode. Even though some of these girls are hot, they are often characterless, immature, self-centered and extremely height obsessive. Sometimes I feel sorry for the tall guys they chase after because these poor guys are the ones dealing with these girly types. I personally love women. I don’t like bratty, chatty, little girls. I guess this kinda explains my affinity for beautiful, taller, mature, confident women who have the ability to look past my height and see me as me. I know they exist because I’ve seen tiny guys between 5’0 – 5’2 dating women well over 6’0. Some of the men in these relationships are below boob height and she loves it just as much as he does. I can’t deny that I love a face full of boobs and them long legs wrapped around me either!
layne 562
It is hard to not have a tall man when you are only a 4ft 9 woman.
I want to comment on how many people have said that they want to marry a tall man to have tall children. My husband was 5ft 4 and our son is 6ft. So short people do have big babies.
wtfbruh 563
As a short, overweight Asian man, I did my own test on Match to run a comparison against my real profile. On my fake profile, I used photos of a semi goofy, mildly handsome but athletic 5’10″, Asian/Latino guy with a six pack. I wrote an “about me” description with intentional typos, misspellings and poor grammar. I also included blatant sexual references, hints about being a commitment-phobe player and a few chauvinistic items as well. I fired out tons of winks and emails. The results were staggering. Basically, women don’t care if I’m a neanderthal dog or creep. As long as I have chiseled abs and am tall is all that matters, and I can get women’s numbers or personal emails within the first communication. Most attractive women that are 5’2 and under (I’m 5’5″) still want a guy that is 5’10 – 6′. I also contacted a few of the same exact women from my real profile that never gave me a chance, to find them interested in this fictional character. Quite discouraging to say the least. I’m taking a break from the whole dating scene for now.
Annie in the desert 564
Wow I just read all this…I have been working 20 hour days since 2001. Needless to say, dating has not been a priority. When I get home I am going to find a old fat asian man who is short.
I want him to be extremely successful. All I want to do do is make him smile and laugh together. Fly kites, blow bubbles, what ever we want – but together. I do not wear highheels anymore, but will if he wants me to for him. I just want to have someone who gets that life is priceless. That you only have this moment. Live it to it’s fullest.
I can ask him everything I want to know more about Nano technology. How to we can use graphene combined with silicon to make asuperior solar panel.
Just read a good book together and feel the music someone is playing or singing and be respectful and tender one to another.
I want to share with him that when life puts one person in your path who has a great need just stop - reach inside - and help them there in this moment.
Today you may be 6′ tall five minutes later you can lose both your legs in an accident or to a disease. Then you will only be as tall as the limbs you are given and the will within to get up and learn how to run all over again.
May 17th I am coming home for a visit…so all you Asian men who are short, ample body, successful in chosen your life path I will be looking for you…the only thing I ask is you must be legally single and honest. ['v']
I’ll be watching for you; 5’8″ blue eyes, dark very long hair, very pale skin and a lot of questions hope you can help me find the answers.
Double Standard 565
How is demanding a certain height of a man considered reasonable, but demanding a certain breast size of a woman is considered sleazy or sexist?
Both height and breast size are physical attributes?
Both play into sex role stereotypes?
So if you pick a man based on height, then don’t get mad when a man picks a 34 D cup over of you.
(neither should matter!)
Steve 566
I hate to say this, but to all American men, especially the short ones, please try to date foreign women from Asia or Europe. There is something seriously wrong culturally with American women. They have a chip on their shoulder and have been raised in an age of entitlement. You will grow up through life knowing deep down something isn’t quite right but you can’t ever put your finger on it. That is, until you travel overseas where women actually view men as friends and partners rather than competitors, money bags or creeps. The truth is, American women have been raised to hate men due to the feminist movement. They don’t even realize it and it’s not even their fault. It’s similar to the housing bubble when everyone said, buy homes as homes are great investments. Well, society has brainwashed American women to the point where they don’t even like themselves. You always hear women say “I don’t like women” but when was the last time you heard a man say “he doesn’t like men. NEVER HAPPENS. White American women divorce their men at a rate now of 70%, with the woman being the primary initiator of divorce. They will hate you for marrying a foreign woman and claim that you only want a slave or a submissive. Truth be told, you can find highly educated, thin, attractive and actually NICE women overseas, which is why more American men are doing it. I did and married a Chinese woman and we are now expecting our first baby. After 11 years of being together I couldn’t be happier. And my white sister is now on her second divorce because she just “grew apart” from her American husband. Ya right.
Mabel 567
I’m 22 years old, 125 lbs, 5’5. My boyfriend is 5’4 (barely), his weight fluctuates between 120 and 125, and he’s 23 but could pass for 15. I used to be over weight and would never even look at a guy who wasn’t significantly taller than me because, like many other women, tall men made me feel smaller. Ironically enough, it wasn’t I started dating my current boyfriend that I lost 30 pounds and got more in shape. It’s been hard, I won’t lie. Especially when we go out with other couples because he looks so much younger. It’s not really a height thing as much as it is his face looking so young. I also miss wearing heels (he says he feels like a child if I wear them). I love him but I’ll admit his height issues have caused some problems. He has every right to be upset because I see how people don’t even give him the time of day because they think he’s just a kid. Getting a job anywhere outside of a fast food joint has also been hard. My bf complains about looking young but I’ve given him suggestions for clothes and he gets offended. He can’t grow any facial hair and has tried everything to gain weight but nothing works.
steve 568
Mabel,
tell your boyfriend to try gallon of milk a day and read into weight training. its a lifestyle change of dieting (eating for caloric surplus) and consistent training.
i’m 31 and look young myself, but after a few years of training others have told me i look better after showing them old photos, and some remark on my build. though my chances on the internet still aren’t great.
Joseph 569
Hey Steve 566,
You are exactly right! I had an amazing relationship with a 5’9 Czech/Serbian girl. She was awesome in many ways but had a very fiery personality. Too fiery for me, which is one of the reasons why we broke up. I’ll admit, she was a strong, dominant, highly opinionated woman but we still talk and we are good friends today. Despite being single, I resist the tempations for amazing casual sex with her between relationships because I don’t want to get caught up in what we had in the past. She was a whole lotta fun and is still is a good person. A part of me will always love her and care for her, she’s just a bit too much for me.
I tell short guys and men of varying heights to take a serious look outside the US and consider women from other parts of the world. All the time!! European, African, Asian, South American and Middle Eastern women often put their North American sisters to shame. At the same time, don’t be fooled. Western ideology has it’s influences worldwide. You’ll find heightists in every corner of civilization. They are just more polite in their rejections than US women. In general though, women outside the US are a lot less anal about height and are miles if not light years more accepting of shorter guys FME.
Mao 570
Please say hi to Tom for me. I’ve never had a problem dating shorter guys. I’ve dated guys at 5’2…so wondering yet how tall I am? 5’10 – you have no idea how many guys get turned off by my height!
I will admit that when I was younger I wanted the fairytale tall prince but some really nice guys – are shorter than I am and I realized what I was missing out on.
So Tom – its not you – blame it on Disney with their tall princes and long flowing hair!
Take care and good luck!
Steve 571
Joseph, I think a lot of men will agree with us. And I’m not even short, being just shy of 6 feet tall and above average in height. I just find foreign women to be nicer on average than American women. I can already hear the angry American girls saying oh you only like submissive girls or ones who don’t speak her mind. Wrong, men simply want women who respect them and view them as partners, friends and collaborators, not like enemies or competitors the way American women do. As I wrote above a few passages up, it is very shameful and sad what has become of gender relations in the US. I think society was so intent on the whole equality and feminist thing that it went overboard and put women on a pedestal while crushing men underneath. The result is a society filled with entitled women who all grew up viewing themselves as princesses with the mentality of what can YOU do for me rather than how we can help each other. Foreign women “GET” it, American women in general don’t though there are a few exceptions. With that said, American men will increasingly be dating and marrying outside the US or recent immigrants. I see this trend continuing until American society moves back to center and treats men as equals to women. Face it, as a man your life just isn’t worth as much in the US as her life is: you die earlier, less money given to men’s diseases than women’s, you are supposed to pay for the date even though you might make less money, etc. etc.
Joseph 572
Don’t forget the guys who just happen to be blessed with the height that these women crave. It doesn’t surprise me that groups of women are being impregnated by the same bunch of tall guys they chase after. A lot of these poor guys are being taken to the cleaners in the courts and their pockets are drying fast, all because they have height.
Short guys need to be careful of women who all of a sudden have a change of heart and now include them as worthy mates. Once a heightist, always a heightist, forever a heightist, that is, unless she wised up early from highschool years and learned to recognize other qualities in men. Most women on the North American continent don’t play down the importance of height until they are well into her retirement years. Even still, there are women who have kept their looks into their senior years and continue to choose men on the basis of this self-entitlement.
A gold-digging, heightist b!tch who’s losing her looks won’t raise her kids without a father so she snatches up the first decent short guy with deep pockets. Some women cheat on the short guy they’ve chosen as the father and most of these guys refuse to leave the lying wench for the welfare of the child and the fear of being alone himself. If she’s got no kids and cannot attract the tall guy she prefers to breed with, she’ll produce one with the short guy, as long as he’s good looking in the face and has more than enough income to support her greedy self. She won’t have more than one kid with the short guy because it’s harder for her to detach herself from the relationship when there’s more than one kid involved. Women hold out hope that a taller guy will come into her life at anytime regardless of the man she’s currently involved with. In most cases, she can’t bring the kid into the next relationship if the tall guy she’s able to attact doesn’t want her children in his life.
This is the sad part of relationships and the fact that kids cannot choose their parents.
hespeler 573
I’ll just add that I’m 6’2″ and make six figures and I’m just as frustrated as ANY OTHER online dater. That is to say that the women I’m interested in usually don’t write me back and when I do get dates with women I’m highly interested in, I usually don’t get a second date. I know I know, I must be doing online dating wrong. Maybe but I doubt it.
In fact, I went on one date with a georgeous woman I was enamored with right from the get go; we got on the subject of height and she mentioned that she could care less about a guy’s height. She didn’t give me a second date.
I will not deny that height is not a bad thing to have but in my experience, it certainly will not guarantee that women will be groveling at your shoes. I mean we’re equating being tall to being a rock star when it’s not even close.
I think a girl will go for a 5’8″ guy who has the look she wants over a 6’2″ guy anytime.
Dagaz 574
i am 5’3″ and used to date guys who are taller (much taller) and who are the same height.
Ladies, gimme a break. i mean those i comments “i like to feel myself small”. i AM small already, to compare to any guy and what does matter is: how he hugs you, how he puts his arm around your shoulder while you walk, how he treats you, how he holds your hand and after all, it won’t matter at all how tall he is when it comes how you feel yourself sleeping in his arms.
Dagaz 575
@Steve, #566
partially you are right. i’, from estern europe originally and after living in US for many years, still have no american girlfriend. it’s a different planet, i’ve no clue what to talk about with them, zero points of common interests.
you know, at the beginning i was shocked while browsing among toy sections in the supermarket. for boys you can find war toys, sport toys, mind-developing toys or games… for girls it’s mostly “HOW TO LOOK PRETTY [to get a man]” – main theme in all.
seems like society doesn’t allow here for woman any other role.
Steve 576
Hespeler, I feel for you. Again, I keep reiterating this but it’s true, that you would do much better pursuing Asian women. I’m assuming you are white? Well they love white, American guys. Stay away from American women because they no longer appreciate men.
henriette 577
@Steve571 You’re right; many foreign women treat American men well. You know why? Because they will have a better life, financially, by marrying an “average” American than an “average” earning male in Poland, China, or Bali. And because your American moms raised you to not be as sexist and demanding as the moms of Polish/ Chinese/ Balinese men.
So, respect your North American women. Some might be rude but many are just your equal, wanting to be treated with kindness and respect, not willing to wait on you hand in return for financial gains that you can give her and her whole family.
hespeler 578
Steve,
I am white and I live in a wealthy part of the U.S. It’s all relative I guess. Looking good on paper in the online world is dependant on geography as much as any other attributes one may have.
Where I live, I see plenty of tall guys walking around.
As difficult and trying as dating has been, I am trying very hard not to become so jaded as to say that American women do not appreciate men.
Alicia 579
Simply put, I don’t want to feel sorry for a guy all the time. And I WILL feel sorry for him (because of how others view him, how “unattractive” he appears to other girls, etc) just due to the fact that he’s short. However, if he is shorter than me by no more than one or two inches, I can seriously date him if he has a strong, confident personality and has other things going for him.
Kalo 580
Hello everyone,
I saw a few comments outlining that we could trade places of short men with fat women and we could get the same effect. I can’t agree with that. Most of the time being fat is a CHOICE. There are actually very few people who are fat because of incurable disease. Most of the fat people chose to be so with living a sedentary life, getting no sport activities and eating loads of food. Yes, genes play a role as well. For some getting in shape might be a walk through hell while others are watching TV through the whole day and still keep fit. However, that’s still your choice – would you walk through hell and reach your goals or just watch TV? As a student I lived with a lot of different people for the last couple of years and yes, I’ve seen fat girls watching TV the whole day, playing video games and eating. So most of the time when we speak of someone fat we are not only talking about physical attraction but a whole package that comes with being overweight. In other words – if you are overweight just choose NOT be and you’ll change yourself…
Being short is another story, no need to explain it but you got my idea.
Now when it comes to online dating, the Internet is very shallow, sometime profane and not always a nice place for people with self-confidence problems. I’m a short man myself, the only difference is that actually I’m quite attractive. I spent almost my whole life at the gym and would say at the age of 20 have better body than very big percent of the men population. Girls are taking pictures of me at the pool. In clubs they often choose me instead some of my taller mates. At parties they like to touch me… flirt with me in the gym, etc, etc.
I always had problems with my self-confidence but never with my height exactly. I was always aware that I’m short but never found it an issue until recently I’ve started reading online and was horrified. I never realized that height is such an extreme importance for women. Ok, I always understand taller women wanting to be with a taller men but was until I started reading on the web that actually even short women find short men unattractive. From my personal experience, the Internet is a really bad place if you are trying to find happiness with the other sex. Sometime it works, there are a lot of happy stories but I believe that all short men should go outside and face the real world because things are different in the real world. Height is just a number online sometimes and applying stereotypes to numbers is probably the easiest way. What I mean is probably no girl will find you attractive if you say “Im a short 20 years old male” but actually outside that short 20 years old male could be a very handsome attractive person..and I’m not even touching the personality here.
Kristoff 581
I’m an Asian American male about 5’6″ 160 lbs, and quite muscular. I guess you could say I try to compensate for my shorter height by lifting weights to get stronger/bigger, eating healthy and right, and training TMA/MMA for 12 years so that I can hold my own in a real fight. Yeah I guess you could say that I have a “Napolean Complex” but that’s because of your messed up American society. Your society and media despises Asian and height-challenged men and makes us out as subhuman, less than dogs, etc. So naturally I fight back in my own way by training religiously and trying to improve myself however I can. And to an extent it succeeded because I’ve beaten up bullies in middle school, high school, and at my current college who thought they could bully me just because I was shorter than they were or because I was Asian. What a nasty surprise they got when they ended up on the ground crying or limping around for a while because of a messed up knee. You ladies should know that height is not not always an advantage in fighting and in some cases it is a disadvantage. So just because your man is big and tall doesn’t mean he is capable of protecting you. “The bigger they come, the harder they fall.” Of course all the fighting was in self defense so I’m not sure how that can be characterized by a “Napoleon Complex” bearing Asian guy “acting out.” But thats how most of you will try to characterize it and thats how most of you racist people want to think of it, and I guess it’s understandable because that is what your narrow minds are comfortable with. So you ladies you want a guy who can handle himself and protect you. Well here I am. Too bad I’m not 6′ and blonde hair-blue eyed or black skinned and exotic like you gals want. No I’m chinky eyed and short, though I am muscular. I’d be hot shit if I were in Korea despite being 5’6″, as I’ve had many girls compare my looks to Tae Yang and Jang Hyuk, though I think I look more like Jang Hyuk. But I guess despite being something like an 8/10 in Asia, I’m something like a 5/10 in the USA just because of height and being Asian. But that’s ok because I am no longer attracted to American chicks anymore. Why? Most of you are gold-diggers and extremely shallow and discriminate against shorter guys and do your best to try to make our lives hell, even if we are very laid back and chill and do our best to ignore that crap. Like many American guys I think I’ll look for a girlfriend or wife overseas. Preferably where women are not such self-entitled biatches and I guess if I find myself an Asian gal, she won’t age as quickly. You caucasian American girls will learn by the time you are in your late 30s that if you seek out relationships solely based on looks, you’ll probably end up with an asshole who will divorce you for a younger woman. Also the fact that you bitches are correlating being overweight/obese with being Asian and/or short is disgusting and displays just how racist Amerikkka still is. And to think I was going to offer an oath to serve this country in the air force with my life on the line when it sees me as subhuman simply for being Asian and/or short. Wow what a society this is. I am now probably never going to volunteer to serve in the armed forces of such a fucked up completely racist place.
Steve 582
Kristoff, I hear you man, I hear you. I’m a white guy who is tall but who lost interest in entitled, white, American girls and ended up marrying a Chinese woman. We are expecting a baby boy and I worry about how he will be treated, mostly by American women. You are right, there is a lot of racism in the US against Asian men, and much less against Asian women. As you say, I’m sure in Asia you would be extremely desired as you are nice, fit, smart, goal-oriented, etc. It’s amazing how the men in my Chinese wife’s family in the US who all make 100K and are very nice have a hard time finding American women. Over in Asia they’d be hot stuff. It goes to show how dysfunctional and messed up American women are. Then they complain they can’t find any of the “good guys”. Don’t beat yourself up Kristoff and simply ignore AMerican women and date Asians. The women are thinner anyway, nicer, less entitled, more dependable, lower maintenance, and likely better educated. I couldn’t be happier. I just wish our society would stop being so racist against Asian men. The whole “linsanity” thing highlighted it.
Christophe 583
If women liked taller men then humanity would have gone taller. The truth is we have the same height as our ancestors. Height is only fashion !
justme 584
“American women are. Then they complain they can’t find any of the “good guys””.
Just as American men complain about “entitled, white, American girls”?
Kettle, I think the pot is calling . . .
jelly 585
i dont want my kids to be short. thats one of the reasons why i dont want short men
layne 586
Jelly as I stated before short does not mean you will have short children.
AS 587
I deal with this issue on a daily basis at my Asian Dating agency with my female clients, who want tall men despite being a mere 5’0 themselves. Don’t get me wrong, I completely get and understand that you may not want to be with a guy shorter than you, but why someone who is a few inches taller than you, is still not acceptable is beyond me.
I am constantly challenging my female clients and asking them “If I found you the man of your dreams and he was 2-3 inches less than you’re desired height in a man, would you dismiss him?” It certainly gives some of them food for thought. And when I ask why he has to be tall the reasons are as follows (in no particular order):
1) I like to wear heels (it’s a good thing that heels come in different sizes!)
2) All the men in my family are tall (and?)
3) It makes me feel safe (surely it’s about presence and how the guy makes you feel rather than height. A shorter guy who is broad can make you feel just as safe as a tall slim guy?)
4) I’ve only ever dated tall men (well you’re not with any of them now? And how do you know that a short guy would not be a good match if you have never considered one?)
Gosh, the list could go on! But I think that short guy’s do get a raw deal, and when you look at the bigger picture is it not more important to be with a guy who offers you love, commitment and respect, rather than if he is tall or not. So in short Evan, I completely agree where you are coming from and I am a woman!
Katherine Wakefield 588
Entirely a personal choice, nobody should overlook a man because of his height. Though i have dated a man who was a few inches taller than me and hated me wearing heels so i was taller than him….. I love my heels!
Julie 589
My first husband was 5’4″. I’m 5’2″ (twice divorced). I would go out with a 5’3″ guy if my friends set me up with him or I met him in person, but I actually ran into a guy in a search on a dating site who had 5’10″ in his stats and in his profile, “Okay, I’m really 5’3″ but I wouldn’t come up in anybody’s searches if I said that.”
On the one hand I could see his point and sympathize. On the other hand, this was not an experiment for a dating guru, this was a guy who had a problem with letting other people want what they wanted. I had to count it as a red flag, much as I could understand.
I think some of it may be that the online dating scene is just way too much like cutthroat job interviewing for people’s personalities to really shine through the way they should.
I mean, look at the way these short guys and tall guys were promoted—they were promoted as lists of statistics, as if they were ball players up for the NFL draft. When you reduce romance down from real live human beings to descriptions of attributes as clinical as the dimensions and speeds of the latest marital aids, then of course the answer to, “Who do you want to marry?” is “Who appears to have the best genes?”
Paragon 590
@ justme
“ Just as American men complain about “entitled, white, American girls”?
Kettle, I think the pot is calling . . . ”
False analogy – the undercurrent in male complaints, are that – for an increasing proportion of males – they no longer have an expectation of finding a reasonable equivalent in terms of a female partner(ie. in terms of assortative mating), because sexual liberation has freed western females to indulge increasingly in disassortative mating(which is the expectation for all but the most attractive females, given their rate limiting function in sexual reproduction).
But, yeah, why any man of sufficent means, would opt to preferentially pursue such an obstinate cohort as western women, boggles my mind.
Go East, indeed!
Hitchens 591
just to make a quick point, you can not compare overweight women to short men. you just can’t, its two separate entities. weight fluctuates through your life and can be adjusted by proper behaviors, and has significant negative health consequences. your height is decided for you mostly by your genes and nutrition early in life. no amount of self control can change your height. weight = largely a product of behavior (the genetic theory doesn’t hold strong) height = largely a product out of your control. discriminating against bad behavior is different than discriminating against conditions beyond your control. its why treating every black person like a criminal is considered unacceptable, skin color is beyond their control.
Paragon 592
@ 118
Apples and Oranges: females are even more critical of overweight men
(http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20584/abstract), but males share no equivalent height bias, to that of women.
And if most women are holding out for a guy who would put them above all other women given an opportunity to choose *any* other woman, then they are either beyond naive, or full of themselves, because guys make trade-offs, like rational, reasoning individuals.
In other words, they reconcile their prospects, and most *settle* for the best they can get.
It is only the hubris of female vanity, that would suppose otherwise.
And as to the females rationalizing their height preferences – this is to be expected, because a preference for males of dominant stature has a basis in *irrational* sensory biases.
This is not to say these biases are unjustified however, in evolutionary terms.
In particular, at some points in our evolutionary past(likely under conditions of acute ecological stress), we can suppose that shorter than average stature became significantly correlated with developmental incompetence, where evolutionary success would bias female choices over time through selective pressure on male stature(ie. females who spurned short males – and perhaps favored slightly taller than average mates – were better insured against developmental incompetence, reproducing more successful offspring – thus a bias against short males could evolve as an advantageous female trait).
Clearly, shorter than average stature rarely suggests devlopmental incompetence(esp given prevailing conditions of relaxed ecological stress), but the effects of this evolutionary legacy(compounded by Koinophilia – neighbourhood limited deviation from normal, as a function of mutation-selection balance) still hold in the form of sensory bias.
It’s not fair, and clearly short male stature doesn’t always carry the same implications through evolutionary time, but the effects remain.
RockinShorty(m, 26) 593
Hi everyone!
I’m 26 years old and 160cm tall. YES! Like 5 foot? And first thing i would like to say
is shame on anyone who thinks they have a right to say what another person should or should not
be attracted to. Each and everyone has the natural human given right to be into whatever kind of
person they are into (with relevant laws adhered too).
You know who pisses me off? Not women who only like tall guys believe it or not. You OTHER SHORT GUYS.
STOP complaining about your height and that women are vain or that you don’t have a fair go. Whinge whinge
whinge.I’m a shortttt ass! I have had the most amazing of girlfriends and a great/healthy sex life since it started at 17.
It’s your personality people. Simple as that. Yes you might not get the PARTICULAR women you’re after from time to time
because hey…they simply aren’t into short guys. So what? Move on.
Lets take height out of the equation. If you love someone and they don’t love you back, are they right for you? No.
So if you like a girl who doesn’t like short guys are they right for you? No. It’s a preference and everyone is entitled
to one. Just like i’m sure there have been homosexuals who have liked/loved straight people. What can you do? Like i said
Move on and stop dwelling.You never know when your last day on earth will be.
Okay so that’s the human rights section out of the way. I think 90% of the people talking about their height
issues are those where the last thing on their mind should be women. You need to be working on yourselves. Self estem
is the issue here.
You all seem to think that you need a woman to make you feel like a man when in fact u need to be a man first
before you can start looking for a woman<<—
Trying to seem confident and acting like your height doesn’t bother you wont work either. Because women can smell it all…fear, lies, desperation.
So unless you’re truely happy with yourself and confident in your own capabilities and personlity don’t even bother looking for a partner yet.
Work on you you you and only you. The whole acting confident thing ALWAYS comes across to women as arrogance and cockyness and nothing else. Cliche but
real as ever: You can’t expect someone to love you if you can’t even love yourself.
Okay so what makes me so special to have a go at other shorties. Well i was raised by a wonderful mother. A single mother. Who was abused and cheated
on by a man. A short man. My father. I guess i was lucky enough to see how sick some people can get. I was taught how to treat a woman with respect,
how NOT to be and what a real man yet gentleman should be. NOT my father. And what makes me sad is there are those that will finally find a great woman who doesn’t
care about height and then you act all alpha/macho/little man complex type to take things further and ENSURE you are seen as the man so that you don’t lose
the woman you FINALLY found that accepts you for being shorter than average. Then she will leave you for being a JERK and you will say “it was because of my height”
and get stuck into a vicious cycle.
I have “never” had issues with women. I mean i have had women say to my face..”you’re too short for me…sorry but no”. But that’s not an ISSUE.
All that is right there…honesty and nothing else. Don’t let it get you down. It’s not a bad thing. Some wont have the heart to tell you that’s the reason
but that doesn’t give you the right to always assume that it’s because of your height that she doesn’t like you. Heck…she might think you’re not good looking
enough for her.
And lets face it guys…if you’re short you DO need to make up for it IF you still want to (for some reason) chase the women that don’t really like short men.
Yes lots of girls don’t like short guys. BUT what’s your excuse for lacking in the fields that you DO have control in? Your body? Your career? Your motivation? Confidence?
Your sense of humor. Becuase really most of the time a woman rejects you isn’t just on the height alone. It’s because you get so fixated on the one thing that the rest
starts to lack. I know…ive been there done that!
And stop concentrating on the lack of women you think are out there that like short guys. I can send you all my photos of me and my exes to prove it. There are PLENTY
of women that will accept you for who you are.And you know what…i even BET you have found them before but they weren’t attractive enough for YOU. So who is right and who is wrong?
Now to TOM PANDOLFO:
Online dating and meetin someone in real life is two difference things. Real life meetings give impressions, chemistry, face value, body language etc etc. What results
did you expect on the site? Dating sites can be great. But when you have the options to systematically “create” a person of course people are going to search for what is
ideal to them. I’m sure you do it to. It’s just what people do. Even i would do that. I would type in my ideal woman lets say between 160-170cms tall, brunette, green eyes, tanned, intelligent” etc
etc.But that’s my PERFECT woman which doesn’t always exist. But does that mean i wouldn’t date anyone different? No. I would. I would date someone who was blonde haired and blue eyed and even 180cm tall etc etc.
So getting more hits on your taller height profile simply means there was an INITIAL preference where the woman put in what was ideal for her and that was someone taller.
AND HERE IT IS TOM: I have found MUCH MUCH MUCH success in not listing a height at all! But don’t lie about it either if she does ask. You will find only a small percentage
will ask “too soon”. I have always got to know someone a little first and vise versa and then introduce the height a little later and found gave the following response:
“lol so what?” You need to to tick their good boxes first not the bad ones. But not in a deceiptful way. My partner is a bigger girl. Not overweight at all but bigger than
most of the other girls i have been with. Now i would have never found her based on my searches either. But like the height thing she left the body description blank and most photos were only mid body
and up and she has a slender (adorable) face. Now i’m totally in love with her and she is the sexiest woman alive to me. My point here is sometimes we also say what we like
in another person but funnily enough it’s not concrete and can be changed easily when the right person comes along. So ditch the heigh from the profile…make a sttrong
first imnpression and be yourself. Build some trust and then introduce your heighta little later and if she runs so be it. I guarantee you success if you do this.
Terry 594
As a 5’3″ male, I just had to comment. I’m 57 now, married twice and of course still married to the wonderful soulmate that I met late in life. I have two girls(adults now!) who I’m secretly glad are girls so they do not have to experience life as I did. My wife is 5’7″ and wears heels as I love to see her in them. I’m successful and we have a good life. But I would point out that I have always known how much harder I would have to work at life from all aspects, not just in interactions with women, but in my professional life as well. In any interaction, I’m already a step behind just because of my size. Male or female it doesn’t seem to matter. As a project manager for a global company, I try to have my first meetings with a new client by conference call always, that way our customers get to know who I am and what I can do for them before they see me in person. Because we all know that the “short guy” cannot not be as good as the “tall guy” in running a project…Now before all of you say…see he has a short guy complex…understand that I am only responding in kind to the injustice that comes my way that I do not deserve or ask for. I am deemed unfit before you ever have a chance to know me. Simply because I’m short.
A cute story for all about the woman who I’m married too and who is my soulmate. When her first marriage was at it’s end and we started to hang out as friends, she would ask her now ex husband(6’3″) if he minded that we hung out together and did things together and he would say…Oh no…now if he was tall, then I would have a problem with you having him as a close friend, but as he’s short no problem.
Yes, I know and understand that woman would not want to date me because I’m short. To them I say…It’s their loss, but it’s not mine as these are people so closed minded that I really would not find them attractive for the long term.
Do I hate the discrimination against short people…you bet. Is there anything I can do about it? No, but I can rise above it and be the best person I can and most people that truely logical adults see past the fact that they can see the top of my head. The one’s that can’t..well these are prople who I really don’t want in my life anyway. See it cuts both ways…I’m rejected because I’m short and you are rejected because you are a insensitive ass. Male or Female.
Terry 595
One other quick story that some may find humor in. When we want to smooch, I stand on the first step going upstairs and this equals us out. And then we can kiss without bending….LOL
Steve 596
Terry I’m so proud and happy for you. You’re awesome. To Terry and all American men, short or tall, here is what you are dealing with in the misandrist, man-hating America of today:
I call it “entitled American female syndrome” where women only live 7 years longer than men, have more money devoted to women’s diseases like breast cancer than men’s prostate cancer, never have to take a risk and ask men out on dates, never have to pay for dates, win all the child custody, alimony and court cases, never serve on the front lines of war and get blown up yet want equality, work in occupations that are safe, are told you are princesses from day one, cheat just as much as men though hide it better, watch TV shows like Oprah, the View or night shows claiming you are smart and all men/husbands are dumb, shout rape and are immediately believed even though so many of you have been caught lying about it, join women’s clubs that shout “Go Women” whereas a man’s clubs are labeled misogynist, graduate from college more than men, laugh at men who have their penis cut off yet if a woman is mutilated shout bloody murder, AND have the option of being stay at home moms without a “loser” label attached to you. And despite all your entitlement, studies show that you women are actually LESS happy than men.I think deep down you know all this and hate yourselves for it. I hope American men keep dating and marrying foreign women and achieving happiness.
Horace 597
Hey RockinShorty 593,
You know what pisses me off? ”Kiss ass” short guys like you who compare their situations to other guys and make sweeping conclusions as to why you think we are the problem. Your advice is understood but not totally appreciated.
Who gives you the right to say that short guys are their own worst enemy? What makes your short guy self so “right” and other shorter guys so “wrong?” Yes, there are short guys who wallow in their own misery and shouldn’t bother thinking about women or relationships. Yes there are short guys who use their lack of height as the main excuse for dating failures. Yes there are short guys who act like idiots with the alpha-male/machismo crap that a lot of women don’t like.
There are also legitimate guys on here who have been treated like complete crap by short women, tall women, and other men too. There are short guys here who have dealt with a ton of short guy discrimination just for being short and for no reason other than being short. Don’t compare your sexual plights and collage of women from your dating history to anyone here because nobody’s tastes are the same. Who’s to say that your tastes in women are the gold standard of what a short guy should look for in a mate? It’s not rewarding, productive or encouraging. Bragging about you conquests doesn’t belong here. Kinda pathetic actually.
FYI, confidence isn’t measured equally by women when it comes to a mans height. If you’ve got your mojo, good for you! Another thing, I totally concentrate on the women I believe who might like my height or the ladies who place no importance on a mans height. That’s just common sense. Why waste time trying to approach the ladies who will have problems with your height? They are actually easy to spot most of the time. The eyes usually say it all for me but not always. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a girl that may look to have a snobby attitude, but she could be really shy and just might want you to talk to her.
I do agree with you on one thing. Women who have told me straight up that I’m too short or not tall enough(whatever way you put it) can be the best kind of woman. Honesty means I don’t waste my time on her because the next woman is waiting for me.
Paragon 598
Now for more on the asian male dilemma:
“Globalizing Evolution
Female Choice, Nationality, and Perception of Sexual Beauty in China
Abstract
An evolutionary perspective on physical attractiveness suggests that individuals find those characteristics associated with reproductive success attractive. Theory and existing data consistent with this view link perceptions of physical attractiveness to traits such as symmetry, status, and reproductive value. Here, we take this evolutionary perspective global to ask how do Chinese men and women rate the sexual beauty of East Asian compared with Caucasian models? We enlisted 74 Chinese men and women from Hohhot, a northern city, and Chengdu, a southern city, to rank photos of both Chinese and Caucasian male and female models obtained from Chinese magazines. We also elicited emic accounts for the ratings as complementary source of qualitative data. Results revealed that Chinese women ranked Caucasian male and female models as more attractive. Chinese men, however, did not differentially rank East Asian and Caucasian women, though they did rank Caucasian men as being more attractive. We suggest that, while an evolutionary novelty, a process of globalization can still be linked to potentially adaptive preferences for physical attractiveness, and call for more research in this vein.”
http://unlv.academia.edu/PeterGray/Papers/1533010/Globalizing_Evolution_Female_Choice_Nationality_and_Perception_of_Sexual_Beauty_in_China
I am not personally advocating this dynamic, but as you can see, the issue is far more complex than mere ‘socialization’ – it is entangled in sensory biases with a basis in evolutionary success.
Tommo 599
Can someone please tell me why I bothered to read this? It said that this was something that I really had to read if I was short (I’m 5’3″), but reading it certainly hasn’t benefited me in any way, shape or form. I’m actually very comfortable with my height, so much so that if I was offered a magic formula to grow, I wouldn’t take it. Of course I haven’t always felt this way. The thing that does concern me is how ridiculously shallow people are. Women try and pretend that they aren’t shallow but they obviously are. “I would only go out with the short guy if the other three were murderers”!! Are you kidding me!! This is probably the most ridiculous statement I’ve ever heard a woman make (and there is plenty of competition there). I don’t have a girlfriend at the moment, and if what I’ve just read is anything to go by I’ll probably never have one ever again, but fortunately I have more important things to worry about in my life than whether some shallow woman with over inflated self esteem is interested in me. Just a note to all you women who refuse to date a guy because he is short or doesn’t have a lot of money: Get over yourself. You’re not as hot as you think you are. That I can guarantee.
Danyale 600
I’m not gonna lie i had never imagined myself with a guy shorter than me at 5’6 1/2 but then I met my amazing boyfriend now and he was afraid to tell me that he was 5’5 cause he said most women don’t date him due to this. He does online dating in the past due to that but ran into the issue that when women met him even when he told his height later on that they were all of a sudden uninterested.
We have been dating for 4 1/2 months and we are supposed to meet in September but he is pretty scared that I will not be interested in him anymore. I always had the issue of my weight cause I’m over 300lbs and have medical issues with my thyroid that put me there but still most men want itty bitty women. I told him I could go into a relationship with him not judging his height if he wouldn’t go up against my weight.
He tells me I’m such a beautiful woman and we are starting to fall for each other. We talk everyday and after my divorce next year I’m thinking of moving a couple states over to where he is to try a close up dating with him. I totally think short men do get a bad rep as well as over weight women cause we are expected to be small.
But just because of shortness or weight and so on I really don’t believe I have found a better man in my life and I’m perfectly happy to be with my short, bald (which he emphasized when we first talked that women didnt always like) amazing boyfriend……. and like they say dynamite comes in small packages.
Marie 601
I’m 5’4″ (and love my heels) and the first to say that I won’t date a guy who’s under 5’9″. Is it “unfair?” Probably. But we’re attracted to what we’re attracted to – it’s just human nature, and it’s a physical turnoff for me. I’m in line with the other women who said that it’s about our own self esteem issues and wanting to feel like the daintier person. I’ve always struggled with my size (I’m not obese or really overweight, but, say, Kardashian-curvy) and it makes me incredibly self-conscious to be with a man who’s smaller than me. In that regard, I probably wouldn’t date someone whose profile talked about constantly being at the gym and into fitness, regardless of height. That’s way too intimidating, and I’d probably always feel like I wasn’t fit enough for him.
It’s funny to me to see men complain that this height thing is too superficial, because men are the very definition of superficial when it comes to dating! C’mon! When’s the last time a successful man dated an otherwise-perfect fat girl? The answer is never, unless there’s a fetish there. I have all of the “successful” credentials, am down-to-earth, have a good sense of humor, love sports, etc., but am constantly turned away by men who seemingly only want Eva Longoria. But I don’t wallow in it, I just move on to someone who’s interested in my curves. I do feel bad for the short guys because there’s nothing they can do about it, but chemistry is chemistry. It’s really indefinable, and sexual attraction can’t be forced. (And for me, it really is just the short thing. I’d happily date a man who’s bald, fat, and/or Asian… just as long as he’s bigger than me.) If I’m being brutally honest, I’ll also add (as others have said) that I’d be wary of passing the short gene onto a future son.
Tam 602
It looks like according to this, people are only asking what white women consider attractive, which I mean makes sense since they are amongst the dominant population in America, but it’s irrelevant to say that everyone wants to date a white women or consider it a disadvantage to be short, fat, or Asian. I would say that if anything American women are at a disadvantage according to the rest of the world. Let’s just say that outside of America Caucasians are considered obnoxious, a completely different spectrum of prejudice based on attributes that aren’t superficial but preconceived.
But in all honestly the title attracted me the most because of the Asian part, I don’t like to be generalized. As an Asian man, I’ve never had problems dating anyone out of my race, or of any gender for that matter. Granted I’m not 5’3″, I just think that there are some stereotypes that will continue to brainwash this society until it smacks some of us across the face, I mean sure face value whatever but intrinsically could you spend forever with a tall guy that beats you up and if you rather choose the sweet shorter guy who’s otherwise perfect if not for what the tv tells you is right. The whole Asian thing: racist, you’d think at Columbia the women would have some exposure.
Paragon 603
@ Marie
“It’s funny to me to see men complain that this height thing is too superficial, because men are the very definition of
superficial when it comes to dating! C’mon! When’s the last time a successful man dated an otherwise-perfect fat girl?”
I’m a big boxing buff, and I was just thinking about this the other day when I caught a glimpse of a successful champion’s wife – she was fat, with kids from a previous marriage, and was like that when their courtship began.
He is a successful world class athlete, with an incredible physique – reverse the sexes, and something like this simply does not happen(at least as far as I have ever observed in my entire life).
Attractive women would seem to marry conventionally unattractive men when the men are of otherwise high status(ie. wealthy, or celebrities of some kind), *not* as an indiction of genuine affection or attraction(otherwise we could observe attractive women marrying conventionally unattractive men of *low* status).
On the other hand, it is more common to observe conventionally attractive men who marry conventionally unattractive women, irrespective of status.
” If I’m being brutally honest, I’ll also add (as others have said) that I’d be wary of passing the short gene onto a future son.”
Couldn’t the same argument be used for rejecting women with a genetic predisposition for being overweight?
James 604
@Marie 601 – It’s fine to have standards Marie but it seems yours are way too high and that you need an urgent dose of reality. The fact that you talk about men constantly turning you down says it all. Constant rejection is uncommon unless you’re going for individuals far out of your league.
Moreover, the fact that you’d automatically reject someone because they aren’t at least 5 ft 9 and that you also base your dating decisions on footwear doesn’t really say a lot about you as a person I’m afraid. That would be like me saying I don’t date women who have breasts less than a D Cup.
Of course we all have preferences. For example, I absolutely prefer women who are slender (UK Size 8/10) but if someone came along who didn’t quite fit into that category, I certainly wouldn’t disregard them if they had other stuff going for them!
Dating inevitably comes with compromises unless your 2 things…under 30 and far above average attractiveness if you’re a women or stupidly rich if you’re a man.
If I’m brutally honest, the problem is that a lot of long term single people are just totally unrealistic about what their worth is. It always makes me laugh when I see women/men who are far from physically perfect have extremely picky standards when it comes to a potential mate.
James 605
@Marie 601
“If I’m being brutally honest, I’ll also add (as others have said) that I’d be wary of passing the short gene onto a future son.”
Parent heights have less of an impact you think. There are lots of other factors that come into play – environmental, other members of the family that may be tall/short etc. Just looking at 2 parents can often be very misleading indeed.
My dad is 5ft 6, my mum is 5ft 6.5 (still a UK size 8, former model in her 20s). I’m 5ft 9 but my bro is 6ft 2. My mum’s side of the family is very tall, my dad’s side is pretty short.
Friend 1 is 6ft 5. His dad is 5ft 10, his mum is 5ft 10.
Friend 2 is 6ft 4. His dad is 5ft 7, his mum is 5ft 7.
Friend 3 is 6ft 3. His dad is 5ft 10, his mum is 5ft 0.
Friend 4 is 5ft 10. His dad is 6ft 5, his mum is 5ft 3.
Friend 5 is 5ft 4. His dad is 6ft 1, his mum is 5ft 1.
Just look at friend 3 and 5. Friend 5′s parents are both taller, yet he’s nearly a foot shorter than friend 3!
Helen 606
Evan wrote: “Honestly, ladies…You can get your own dishes from the top shelf. You don’t really need to feel “protected” from the dangers of suburbia. And why, in God’s name, is it important to stand on your tiptoes to kiss a guy?”
I can’t speak for myself; I am fine with short, fat, old, and Asian men. But here is my hypothesis for why women might shy away from short men, which has nothing to do with the specific points Evan brings up (getting dishes, dangers of suburbia, standing on tiptoes). It is because of the collective way American society views and therefore treats short men. “Society” includes both men and women.
In American society, taller men get paid more and are promoted to loftier professional positions. Some people have done studies calculating how much more a man earns for every additional inch of height, controlling for other factors such as education. Not only are the results statistically significant, they’re also substantial, especially over a lifetime! Men rather than women are more responsible for this situation, because there are more men than women who are in a position to hire and to determine salaries and raises.
Now, if you accept the corollary that women gravitate toward men who have higher salaries and are in more prominent positions… the conclusion is pretty easy to draw, ne c’est pas?
Why is this the case? I have no idea why men discriminate against other men who are shorter. But I think pinning this all on women certainly isn’t fair, because it seems to work both ways, and maybe both genders feed off each other in terms of general impressions.
Although I limited my hypothesis to Americans, I’ve traveled around the world a lot, and do tend to see that the “high-status” men in business settings are usually the taller ones. With women, it’s all over the map. Taller women are not always the ones who have higher professional status.
Karl R 607
Helen said: (#606)
“In American society, taller men get paid more and are promoted to loftier professional positions. Some people have done studies calculating how much more a man earns for every additional inch of height, controlling for other factors such as education.”
According to Psychology Today, men and women receive an additional $789 per year for each inch of height.
According to Psychology Today:
“Perhaps society is not consciously aware of the importance we place on height. If the status accorded to tall people has evolutionary origins—when height signaled strength and power—these same psychological processes may exist today; just in our subconscious”
I like to understand subconscious psychological processes, because that allows me to avoid making irrational decisions. It seems that others in this thread like using this knowledge as an excuse for their own irrational choices.
James said:
“Parent heights have less of an impact you think. There are lots of other factors that come into play – environmental,”
According to Scientific American, height is 60% to 80% genetic (depending upon racial/ethnic background). The other 40% to 20% is determined by environment, mainly nutrition.
Another Tom 608
The title of this article is incorrect – you should definitely NOT read this if you are short, fat, older, etc……However; chances are you already know that you will be treated like a second class citizen by most people and that you will likely have a hard time finding a quality mate. Sadly, women seem to discriminate against short men as much or more than men do.
About me: I’m 5’6″, in my mid 50′s, and have never been married. I’ve had a few long term relationships in my 20′s and 30′s but did not feel that I found the one for me, and I refuse to “settle”. A very good friend of mine is 5’3″ and he is probably the smartest, funniest and most talented person I’ve ever met (he’s a brilliant writer and musician). He has not had even a single date in the 15+ years I’ve known him. Another acquaintance of mine is 6’3″ and dumb as a post. He is also the wealthiest person I know, even though he has hardly worked a day in his life. He has a steady stream of (seemingly intelligent) women after him. Nuff said.
Best advice if you’re short, fat, older, bald….. is to become excellent at whatever you enjoy in life. Find and unleash your talents and don’t waste your time reading stuff like this!
Horace 609
I totally agree with you Another Tom.
Modern women seem to be real good at trading in or recycling their existing tall husband for another man who’s a fraction of a centimeter taller and makes half a red cent more. There are enough horror stories in todays world about abandoned children. Some are left for dead in rotting homes, newborns found in freezers or trash bins by a mom who’s new man doesn’t want her existing kids to be a part of his life. This and other reasons are why I don’t prioritize women in my life as much and I’m at the 40 mark. I was once told by a married woman that I was a selfish bastard for not wanting to get married and have children. Her sentiments quickly changed when I pointed out the selfish nature of how women value height, looks and material wealth. Needless to say she bit her own tongue when I asked her about her tall husband, his looks and the excuses she made against dating shorter guys in her dating life. References to overachieving, aggressive short guys Napoleanic behaviour, smaller penis myths and being able to wear heels were the typical. I’d say an honest 8 out of 10 women are more concerned with how a taller guy contributes to her femininity. This woman was a reformed heightist because she said she stopped believing that height was important in a man, after she got married to her tall beau that is. She had no answer for me when I asked her how and why she came into believing the unscientific false garbage that people choose to label short guys with.
Honestly, at one point in my life I did want my own family with a good woman at my side raising the kids with me. The moment I realized that I’d never qualify as an ideal boyfriend or husband, let alone father based on my height, skin colour, lack of hair and my thin wallet, I stopped wasting thoughts about dating, marriage and relationships. The only relationships that matter to me are the ones I have with my family, good friends and God of course. Women are practically insignificant to me because I see too many superficialities and discrimination against shorter guys in the dating world.
I’m still fit and strong with a decent body and a handsome face. Hasn’t done me a lot of good or brought success in the dating world, but it doesn’t concern me anymore. If a lady is interested in me, she’ll do her best to let it be known to me. I have no need to show any interest in a woman at face value because they rarely take the time themselves to know a man, especially if he’s short. If he’s tall, handsome and wealthy, it doesn’t matter if he’s a murderer, rapist, career criminal or child molester.
You are so right about finding your talents and your inner self. I do the things I want to do devoid of women. You’re less likely to get mistreated by them.
Naria 610
“Yet his height defines him, since it has prevented otherwise interested women from being interested in him over the course of his entire life.”
In that case, he should probably have made sure he asked out women who were interested in him. Sounds like he was trying to date out of his league. There are plenty of women shorter than him.
I also think he’s left it a bit late. The article doesn’t mention his age, but a short guy in his twenties can often come across as quite cool. An older man who haunts the singles scene is rarely going to be cool and are often percieved as predatory if on it too long, and any shortcomings will be emphasised. He’s also not that attractive facially. So I wonder why he hasn’t already met his woman when younger and perhaps at college or in a recent grad job?
He doesn’t really need to appeal to hordes of women. He only needs to find one. That special one. Many people have ”deficiencies”. Perceived lack of height is only one of them.
justme 611
I prefer a guy be my height (I’m 5’3″) or taller, but not over 6 feet tall. So any man between 5’3″ and 6′ is fine to me. I have dated all heights. My husband is 6′ I have brothers and they are all short – but that has not stopped them from getting women so I’m mystified.
Also, shorter men seem to be more attractive. Cuter in better shape. Maybe because they know they need to try harder. Personally, I’ve never had issue with short men, maybe because my father was short?
Huge dudes are scary. LOL.
justme 612
Best advice if you’re short, fat, older, bald….. is to become excellent at whatever you enjoy in life. Find and unleash your talents and don’t waste your time reading stuff like this!
@Another Tom
That only works if you’re male. Men are lucky in that respect. A woman can be a Nobel prize winner, but if she’s older and/or unattractive she can forget about finding a man unless she’s willing to lower her standards considerably.
justme 613
@Tam
I don’t get the Asian man as undesirable trope? Asian men are **&^% hot. My first boyfriend was Asian, I’m biased.
Maybe it’s from stupid media stereotypes, just like the whole all black women are loud, harsh and ghetto.
Shaswata 614
Horace
Do you realize you are the freest man in the world? The man for whom women hold no charm? Jesus Christ, Gautama Buddha, Swami Vivekananda, St. Francis of Assisi also had no use for women…
I am a 6’1 26 yr old who has taken lifelong celibacy with the idea of having intense meditation experience at least smadhi and perhaps even Englightenement…real meditation and yoga progress requires male celibacy…What is celibacy? Is it only abstaining from sex? No It is rather not losing your Holy seminal Fluid in the waking state and later not even in sleeping state..When you do unbroken celibacy of 12 years without losing a single drop of semen you become emglightened when accompanied with Meditation…Buddhism (Theravada–the real ancient Buddhism) semen has extremely high value..If a monk is to lose semen in the waking state he has to report that to others and all monks form a committee to discuss the seminal loss…But the world’s mos ancient religion Sanatana Dharma (basically the eternal religion) which is known as Hinduism to the West is basically in love with the Holy Seminal Fluid
Let me quote you from the great Hindu meditation master of 20th century Swami Sivananda (You should read his book—The Practice of Brahmacharya freely available online–Brahmacharya is Unbroken Celibacy)
“Seminal energy is a potent Sakti. Semen is Brahman(the with attribute as well as the attributeless God) Itself. A Brahmachari who has practiced unbroken celibacy for full twelve years will attain to the Nirvikalpa state the moment he hears the Mahavakya, “Tat Tvam Asi“, because his mind will be extremely pure, strong and one-pointed”
Another time The Great Englightened Master writes
“God is Rasa(Seminal Fluid). Raso Vai Sah. Rasa is Veerya, the vital fluid or semen. You can get eternal bliss by the attainment of Rasa or Veerya only. Rasohyevayam Labdhva Anandi Bhavati.
Grasp fully the importance and value of this vital essence of life. Veerya is all power. Veerya is all money. Veerya(Seminal Fluid) is God. Veerya is Sita. Veerya is Radha. Veerya is Durga. Veerya is God in motion. Veerya is dynamic Will. Veerya is Atma-Bal. Veerya is God’s Vibhuti. The Lord says in the Gita: “Paurusham Nrishu. I am the seed or virility in men”. Veerya is the essence of life, thought, intelligence and consciousness. Therefore, preserve this vital fluid very, very carefully, my dear readers!”
When you can raise your seminal energy from your base to your brain you become superman even a bit of prgress can make you superman in your career and spirituality…Donot cavort with women stop seeking their comradeship and practice meditation technique to deconstruct the beauty of women….when getting aroused seeing a woman just think of the mountains of excreta and urine she has emitted her whole life standing beside her..Imagine all the dirt that ever accumulated in her body..Imagine her as a corpse eaten by insects and lizards….Imagine her whole body covered by festering boils being licked by rats…Imagine her when she is old and her breats has drooped and her bottom has flattened…Imagine her as flesh and bones and stinking because of not brushing and bacteria and bad clothes
And women will get alarmed that you have taken vows of celibacy they will try their level best to break it happened in my case…But you have to realize eventhough there are Mother Mary and female Buddhist monks in the world most women are of the Eve character…If wanted Adam follows her rather than God…Women want you to worship them and not God..Think about that for a moment….
But anyways you will become superman having leadership on both men and women…I hope to see you three years from now a very powerful man through your celiabacy and remeber
only men who donot discharge semen and women in their youth who have stopped menstrual discharge through intense meditation can achieve Enlightenment
Okay I follow Nagarjuna’s Madhyamika school of Thought in Buddhism as well as Advaita Vedanta —Both say that the soul can be said to exist as well as not exist
God is basically without any attribute that is God doenot have any characteristic and indefinable and God basically doesnot love you also not hate you..doesnot bless you also not condemen you
But God may or may ot exist in Saguna or with attribute form..That is God as a loving God..that is for everyone individual’ own journey whether that is true or not
Power to celibacy Power to the Conservation of The Holy Seminal Fluid and raing the Kunadlini force through celibacy to brain
Napoleon 615
Height is a physical characteristic that an adult cannot change. On the other hand, weight is one that an adult can change, even daily. Therefore, weight cannot be compared with height; fat girls cannot be compared with short men.
Arab guy 616
I’m really sorry to say this, but something is wrong with America ! what the hell ? are you serious ? refusing to go out with a good guy, just because he’s short ?
If this is real (i.e not just internet talk posted by losers & trolls),then america is going down, if your standards about dating are height and height and guess what : height !!!!
Lived & raised in the middle east, I never heard anybody discussing this height issue (even the westernized brat arab girls are not discussing it in here), we value beauty,success & personality more than anything else, no wonder divorces are scarce and rare in here !
My advice to americans : get over your stupid taboos which Hollywood planted in your minds, you’re sick and need treatment, so as anybody who thinks that short men are (weaker) or having a short man complex, this is nonsense !
grow up , someday you’ll be left alone, and even short guys are not going to look at you, my height is 174 cm, and I swear I’ll never get involved with american women, because simply : you have issues !! you are sick !!
Paragon 617
@ Naria
“In that case, he should probably have made sure he asked out women who were interested in him.”
And short of clairvoyance, how would you propose he do that?
I don’t know of any dating site catering to a market for dating short men, do you?
“Sounds like he was trying to date out of his league.”
Yes, and the problem with these ‘leagues’ is that they are asymmetrical(meaning that there is a higher probability of a female attracting any given statistical subset of ranked males, than the reverse), rendering a disproportionate scarcity of receptive females for lower ranked males.
“There are plenty of women shorter than him.”
Non-sequitur – even shorter than average females tend to prefer taller than average males.
“I also think he’s left it a bit late. The article doesn’t mention his age, but a short guy in his twenties can often come across as quite cool.”
Citation please.
“An older man who haunts the singles scene is rarely going to be cool and are often percieved as predatory if on it too long, and any shortcomings will be emphasised.”
Why should this be perceived any differently than a younger guy who haunts the singles scene?
“He’s also not that attractive facially. So I wonder why he hasn’t already met his woman when younger and perhaps at college or in a recent grad job?”
Is this a genuine question, or is this merely alluding to some thinly veiled cognitive bias that weighs against low value males(ie. the devil effect)?
“He doesn’t really need to appeal to hordes of women. He only needs to find one. That special one.”
Probability fallacy.
“Many people have “deficiencies”. Perceived lack of height is only one of them.”
Yes, and a frequently determinate one, as demonstrated in this thread.
@ Justme
“That only works if you’re male.”
Um, he is implying that their best option is to *reconcile their solitude*.
“Men are lucky in that respect. A woman can be a Nobel prize winner, but if she’s older and/or unattractive she can forget about finding a man unless she’s willing to lower her standards considerably.”
Which, of course, negelects to mention that females have shown to be more critical in judging male attractiveness than the reverse(meaning that they are *more* likely to find a receptive partner, regardless of their own relative attractiveness).
Horace 618
Leagues are for athletes and sports teams. Not for people who choose to involve themselves with another person for relationship purposes. I don’t buy into the BS of “league” dating. I approach the woman that turn me on physically and often it’s just one quality about her that makes me want to talk to her. The next step is to figure out if she’s an awesome person on the inside which overshadows the physical looks most of the time.
Men are a lot less likely to date by this fastidious league concept that most women concoct from prehistoric ideology. Truth be told from experience, women who grade men on the basis of unscientific BS and categorize them into leagues are rarely happy as people. They follow the whims of society, which tells them who they should date and who they shouldn’t date. They contribute to the divorce rate consistently.
I don’t waste time on any woman who banishes me out of her personal space because she feels I’m not up to whatever twisted standard she has. They all look the same when they are naked. Some women just take better care of themselves physically and have an abundance of confidence with positive self-femininity. I find more of these independent types of women don’t normally have leagues because you can’t have that much fun if you’re only creating a playing space for a certain group of men.
Mark 619
A little late here but a person can change their weight but not their height.
Most of the issues re. tall men are insecurity on the Woman’s part.
I actually see dating profiles that say “and please be 5′ 10″ because I like to wear heels” Really? That’s important?
That’s YOUR insecurity not mine. I’m secure enough that if she wears heels and I’m shorter I’m ok with it.
I bet I’d get a lot of hate mail from women if I said and please be REALLY thin with big boobs, or I only date Asians.
I really get irritated re. the height issue because I cannot change my height. I can lose weight or workout if I’m out of shape.
But I guess when I read something in a profile like that, the woman has already revealed something about herself, huh?
Laura 620
I just wanted to say that I am in the happiest relationship of my life and my boyfriend just happens to be 5’3”. He could have already been taken by another woman if he was taller but he’s mine!!
Heather 621
I have dated men who are about my height or a tad shorter, especially when I wear heels. I have dated men who are overweight or too skinny or not as attractive as others. Of course, I’ve also dated tall, athletic men who were very strong and attractive. The one thing that drew me to these very different individuals was how they treated me and their attitudes towards other people and me.
I went on a couple of dates with a guy shorter than me or about my height 5’5″. He had a horrible attitude about women. He berated past girlfriends over their weight and made negative comments about my appearance. I once dated a man that tore me down emotionally, mentally, and it almost led to physical abuse. I won’t put myself through that again. A man might think he has it all and is super nice, but check the attitude every now and again and tell me in all honesty does it always match up to “has it all” and is “super nice”. No one can really say they are always super nice people who have it all.
So it comes down to genuine attitude. Right now I’ve been seeing someone who is maybe slightly taller than me. I’m not sure how it will progress, but so far I think he is a nice guy and despite the height difference I am quite attracted to him.
People like who they like. Men and women are no exception. I don’t often see attractive people going for the overweight person or the shorter person or the weaker person. I think part of it comes down to our biological instinctual process of finding the fittest “mate”. We are part of the animal kingdom, not separate. Despite an ability to reason we are also subject to the laws that govern the natural world.
It may be a combination of things. As humans who can reason we’d have to decide to throw off what we “naturally” seek out or are attracted to in order to circumvent this particular stigma.
As far as what we can control – we can control our attitudes and behavior. If you’re acting in accordance with what is attractive to the opposite sex and you are open to those who are interested – then you’ll find someone.
Paragon 622
@ Heather
“I don’t often see attractive people going for the overweight person or the shorter person or the weaker person.”
I see conventionally attractive men going for short overweight women, frequently, irrespective of independent status indicators.
Of course, cases of the reverse dynamic are vanishingly rare(wherein lies the basis for many a male grievance).
” He had a horrible attitude about women. He berated past girlfriends over their weight”
” I think part of it comes down to our biological instinctual process of finding the fittest “mate”. We are part of the animal kingdom, not separate. Despite an ability to reason we are also subject to the laws that govern the natural world. “
You would appear to be faulting bias in the first, and yet justifying it in the second.
Or is your only complaint, the fact that he was open in expressing his bias?
” and made negative comments about my appearance. ”
From which one might conclude that he was not interested(which begs the question of why he was there to begin with).
Tim Johnson 623
Bottom line is that both genders need to stop being so picky. Ever wonder why the divorce rate is so high and the marriage rate is so low? I think people in general have become too selfish. Many men pass up somewhat good looking women who are definitely do-able because they think they can do better. So many men try to get the hot looking gal (200+ mails a day usually). Women are the same, passing up good men because they also think that they can do better. Dr. Seuss had it right when he wrote “The Sneetches”.
Now please be honest women, if you’re 5’2″, can you honestly say that you’re not attracted at all to a man that’s 5’6″? I’m not saying you shouldn’t date someone you’re not attracted to, but what I am saying is that you should always be searching for anyone that you are moderately attracted to.
When will people be happy with what they have? How many gyms existed in the 1900s? Very few because women weren’t like this!
Julia 624
I’m a 5’4 140 pound female. Not overweight by BMI standards,but probably not thin enough to meet a lot of guys standards.
And it’s funny because on a dating website,I was one of those gals getting 100+ messages a day.Some even from fitness freaks,and I turned THEM down because I found their profiles to be too superficial regarding women’s weight.They couldn’t understand how I saw them as being shallow when they put down that they couldn’t date a woman even “slightly” overweight.I even told one guy that we probably aren’t a good match because I don’t meet his weight requirements,and he responded by saying,”But you are so beautiful”.
You people can spin it however you want,that it is okay to want someone who can “keep up” with activities.I can keep up with the best of them,so that is just one more lame justification to support YOUR “preference”. So how about laying off of women for their preference for taller men?
We women have to hear about men’s preferences all day long…you prefer blonde or brunettes,big boobs,thin,and to look like supermodels…So I guess you will just have to deal with the one preference women actually have which is height.
(and for the record,I have never not dated any guy because of his height.Now,attitude is a whole different issue)
Paragon 625
@ Julia
“I’m a 5’4 140 pound female. Not overweight by BMI standards,but probably not thin enough to meet a lot of guys standards.
And it’s funny because on a dating website,I was one of those gals getting 100+ messages a day.”
From which you should conclude that you MEET their standards.
“You people can spin it however you want,that it is okay to want someone who can “keep up” with activities.I can keep up with the best of them,so that is just one more lame justification to support YOUR “preference”.”
This kind of pretension is far from gender specific, evidenced by all the runner chicks I see who likewise spuriously justify a preference for buff gym rats(six pack douche-bags with chicken legs) – who evidently can’t keep up with them(ie. they don’t do any cardio) – while spurning far better conditioned(though less lean) males.
“So how about laying off of women for their preference for taller men?”
This isn’t just observing a penchant for taller men – but rather that women are more selective in all relative evaluations(ie. they are also more selective in terms of culling males according to relative body-composition).
“We women have to hear about men’s preferences all day long…you prefer blonde or brunettes,big boobs,thin,and to look like supermodels…”
Which somehow doesn’t stop ‘imperfect’ women (such as yourself) from pulling over 100 messages a day in OLD.
This supports the observation that, unlike female preferences, male ‘preferences’ are inclusive of a broad range in female variance.
“So I guess you will just have to deal with the one preference women actually have which is height.”
Again, height is FAR from their only criteria(ie. consider the title of this blog entry).
And this is something that many women will have to deal with as well, when(?) they reconcile that they are unlikely to enter into an exclusive relationship by disqualifying the vast majority of males for the most trivial of reasons.
Another Tom 626
I find it humorous that many women will only settle for the very small percentage of men that are over 6′ tall, and yet when they find out he is cheating or married, they lament the fact that there are no “decent men”. Duh. You can’t really blame these guys because women (and society in general) have given them a sense of entitlement and taught them that their physical attributes alone are the only thing needed to be successful in the world today.
I was very surprised when I read about some studies claiming that taller men are on average more intelligent than shorter men. My experience has been the opposite – I have honestly never met a tall man with extraordinary intelligence, wit, talent or sense of humor. On the other hand, many short guys I’ve known have possessed extreme intelligence and many talents simply because they learn early in life that they have to be better at everything in order to get a fair shake.
A few observations I’ve made over the years:
-many people tend to contradict, discredit, argue or disagree with statements made by short men
-many people will attempt to take credit for ideas/work created by a short male (and if this is disputed, most people will side with the taller male)
-the shortest male will often be the butt of jokes amongst a group of people
The exploitation that short men encounter seems to be getting worse (also the average male height has been increasing at an astronomical rate). If I sound bitter about all of this, it’s because I am! Sadly, I have lost respect for most women and humanity in general.
Short guys – be nice to other short guys!
Signing off on this topic
Laureen 627
I am 5′ 3″ and I LOVE shorter guys. I prefer men under 5′ 10″ (not that taller stops me from dating them) and guys around my height are AWESOME.
Jillian 628
I’m 5′ and always joke that I date tall guys just so my potential future kids will have a chance at height. In all honesty though, I couldn’t say why I’m attracted to taller guys. Why do some men prefer blondes? They just do. It probably just boils down to our base natures wanting the best DNA so we have healthy offspring.
(My current boyfriend is about 5’9″, but I’ve dated from 5’5″ to 6’3″.)
Paragon 629
@ Jillian
“In all honesty though, I couldn’t say why I’m attracted to taller guys. Why do some men prefer blondes?”
Probably, because there is some selection for genetic diversity that mediates male sexual preferences.
Of course, the same can not be said, for an overwhelming female bias against shorter than average males.
“ It probably just boils down to our base natures wanting the best DNA so we have healthy offspring.”
Again, these kinds of biases no longer serve the same adaptive function they did in our evolutionary past – they are a vestige of an environment that no longer exists.
Intelligent women are well informed of this.
Napoleon 630
Height is determined by nutrition. Genetics help but do not necessarily control. I’m 5’4″ and my wife is 5’3″. We both are foreign born and come from an ethnic group in which men average 5’4″ and women 5′ due to a diet that does not include dairy products. Our son, however, is already 5’10″ and he’s only 16. I made sure that he drank milk as he grew up because I did not want him to feel the pain that I feel from height discrimination. There are plenty of cases like this from immigrants; these immigrants were not tall simply because of their diet in their native countries. Their children, like mine, with the right food have no problem reaching average american height. Just take a look around.
So you girls can delete this false reason (false: short men=short kids) for not hooking up with men who are not tall.
The flip side of this is that if you grew up in the US and ended up short (with no medical reason), you should get angry at your parents for not caring enough about you to feed you right. Sad but that is the truth. Their uncaring has screwed up your life or made your life very difficult. There is simply no reason for a kid growing up in the US where food is cheap and plentiful to be short.
Josh 631
A friend of mine just found this and here’s one for the Asian guys. I am a dating coach and EMK is definitely not being racist or stereotypical here at all. However, he points out the issue over and over again that “life is unfair to Asians.” What he is doing (and maybe even unknown to him) is creating a vicious cycle to where Asians will blame their race because they can’t get dates. The link that he attached to the post doesn’t work but I’m willing to bet it’s a another survey or something like that. I agree, in part, because I don’t think online dating is going to work that well for Asian guys (or most guys who aren’t part of the majority) anyways. Don’t let this website make you feel left out, however, life isn’t “unfair” to Asian guys because there are plenty of Asian guys who are out there and dating. Confidence is key. Go out and meet people and check out websites by JT Tran (he’s done a lot more research on this). You shouldn’t bring up a problem unless you can fix it and JT does a pretty good job of fixing it – and he’s also around 5’4 by the way. It’s a vicious cycle, if you believe the stereotypes you’ll develop self-limiting beliefs and that won’t get you very far as most men and women can sense that. Blaming things on your race isn’t going to help you and these statistics don’t represent everything. Online dating will always be stereotypical and women can be quite choosy. Also, there are different statistics with different surveys. Yes, the Columbia studies ranks Asians as the lowest and African Americans higher, but the Okcupid study ranks Asians as higher than African Americans. Don’t worry about the surveys, just go out there and ask. Believe me, there are plenty of tall guys that get rejected too. If you’re comfortable with yourself, you’ll find that you’ll attract plenty of people regardless of height and race, and, it will come more natural as well.
Jennifer 632
Great comment Josh #631!
holly 633
I have tried online dating and I admit that I always ruled out the short guys. However, in real life, I recently met and completely fell for a very short man. He was only 5’2″ or 5’3″. I think that height, age, weight, etc., are honed in on when searching for dates online because nothing else is known about the person. There is no chance for true interpersonal chemistry in that context. (The short guy ended up dumping me, by the way!)
Josh 634
Thanks Jennifer and great comment Holly! I don’t coach as much anymore (raising kids is tough and now I’m the one taking lessons) but I remember, that when I did, we used to tell our clients to avoid going the online route. There’s what we call the “self-settling” principle that some people apply to dating online. Basically, this principle applies to individuals of both sexes who rule out certain factors – be it height, race, weight, age, etc. because they feel like they are “settling” if they don’t. I have no doubt that these factors play an important role due to the fact that, as stated before, nothing else is really known about the person. Nothing wrong with it, standards are certainly important and we all have our preferences. Now I’m not saying that this doesn’t happen in the real world, just that it happens less. Dating is discriminatory by nature but, as Holly has stated, it’s all about chemistry.
MLK 635
Evan sucks cuz, um, y’all know that my ex-wife read his stuff and we got a divorce. All of these “dating coaches” all hate on men.
(I usually don’t let comments through, but this one was priceless. I don’t hate on men, MLK. I only hate on haters. You’ve never met me. You have no idea what I do or what I write. And you just insulted me. Who looks bad in this scenario. Furthermore, I only tell women to leave men who aren’t fulfilling their needs. Clearly, you weren’t fulfilling your wife’s needs. Either way, If your wife left you after reading what I wrote, I’m sure it was the right decision for her. And you wouldn’t want to have a wife who was unhappy, would you? Sounds like it’s for the best for all parties involved. Good luck in dating. Thanks for your support.)
Suzy 636
Presently, I am a doctoral student in clinical psychology and my interest has always been to figure out what makes romantic relationships work. I don’t understand this height bias either. Some recent research has proved that sexual chemistry has a lot to do with the pheramones that people subconsciously react to, for the good or for the bad. Pheramones in and of themselves don’t make someone more attractive than the other person; rather, they carry messages about our overall health as well as a healthy genetic code. Interestingly, a recent study found that individuals find others attractive who have a very different immune system than their own. Apparently this is communicated via the pheramones and received at a subconscious level by the opposite sex. A different immune system likely means that offspring will be healthier etc.
I happened to meet my husband online 11 years ago, but, had I dismissed him based on his main profile picture, I would have been missing the love of my life. While the picture he had posted was attractive, he didn’t seem to be exactly my physical type at all. But, I emailed him anyhow and then spoke with him on the phone. We got along great on the phone and then met.
I still remember the first time I met him in person. I was meeting him at a restaurant on the water to catch a late dinner. I was standing on the curb outside the restaurant and waiting. I caught a man through the corner of my eye walking through the parking lot and I thought “wow, but that WILL NOT be him…too hot.” Well, that man walked up to me, smiled, extended his hand, and introduced himself. That (my now husband, the man in the profile picture) had a completely different presence/comportment in real life. A single picture could in no way begin to capture all of his marvelous qualities. Further, the picture could not even begin to capture how attractive he actually was in real life. From the second we locked eyes, it was literally love at first sight on my part. I am 5’6, he is 5’10, and he is the absolute perfect height for me.
As a side note, I did date one gentleman who was also 5’6′ when I was single. His height did not deter me from the relationship since he was well-built.
And one more thing, in college, my best friend had a boyfriend who was 5’5′ while she was 5’3′. She says he was the most greatly endowed man she had ever met and he aimed to please her behind closed doors. On the other hand, there are
many 6’2 guys who don’t even compare to her 5’5′ boyfriend in that department.
Height is no indication of how a man will be behind closed doors.
Mary 637
YIKES!!!!! If I didn’t know better I would totally give up again.
Fortunately I am finding some really wonderful men since I decided to believe in myself. I am 61 and 5 ft i/2 .
Mary 638
Suzy What a lovely story.
When I was 25 I met a Good man. He was captain of the university tennis team. Pres. of the Young Democrats, Graduated MBA on scholarship from Columbia U Worked in Manhattan Lived in Forrest Hills, a Generous, Kind, Strong, Smart MAN and he asked me to marry him. He was short 5’3 and then I was 5’1 1/2 he was from an ethnic family wrong side of the tracks youngest of 9 brothers and sisters who did everything to help him succeed.
…… Well even though he was everything I saw in my visions of my mate, his appearance was not and I refused him.
( I was also from the wrong side of the tracks but the more affluent neighborhood )
He had a mustache
He married a school teacher. I heard they moved to Spain for his work.
I never met anyone as kind or loving with me as he was. It is a good thing that he didn’t marry me I was ignorant and without the kind of spirit he needed in a partner. It has been a hard lesson learned. I could have taught him how to kiss and well what’s the problem with a mustache. My own life is pretty colorful now even though I never married. I just came back from a Sun Dance in Colorado. I am recognizing the good guys even if they have a few flaws because I have my own. I am just now asking the powers to give me another chance at love. I believe it is never too late to wake up to all the good that the universe can send my way. I wont make the same mistake twice. A Good man who is supportive powerful and loving is worth it. I’ll bet I would have learned to love him.
Suzy 639
Hello Mary,
Well, if you are attending SunDance Film Festival or even visiting, it sounds like you have an awesome life
Don’t give up on love because there is someone for everyone.
My dad used to say that loves comes at the time we least expect it and
sometimes from the least expected source.
Therefore, we should pretty much throw out that list we all have in our heads and be open to meeting new people.
When I was single, I cannot tell you how many times I ended up getting a powerful crush on a man who was shorter than me, much heavier than me, and bald. It all
comes down to personality and how someone treats you– especially as you get older.
Sometimes I wish that everyone in this world looked exactly the same so that people would have to take someone’s personality into account rather than their external appearance.
When I was in my early twenties, I was very shallow in the looks department. Looking back now, I see how many great guys I wrote off as just friends because
they didn’t meet my physical requirements. With the perspective I have now I
would have dated every single one of them.
But, then again, I may not be with my husband if I had. So, everything ultimately happens for a reason and at the end of the day, I do believe that we are all meant to be on the path that we are on and at the place in life we have found ourselves.
Past regrets need to be cast away because everything that happened in the past makes us who we are today.
And who we are today will allow us to look inside ourselves and find the lessons we have learned based on experience.
Those lessons will then provide the springboard to approaching the world in new and fresh ways and having new experiences.
We can never live life from the perspective of attitudes we formed years ago. The purpose of this life is constant growth and change and it is better to go with it and to allow wonderful new experiences to find us. Or, sometimes we need to go and find them.
There is always some kind of treasure waiting just around the bend if we know what to look for. And this absolutely applies to dating as well!
Suzy 640
PS-
One more thing… to answer the original question about height preference, here is what I have to say.
I have always preferred a man who is at least 5’5′, but it is his body-type/build that counts. His build actually means a lot more to me than his height.
I do not like extra thin guys. I like guys who have broad shoulders and a muscular build. If a guy is 5’5′ with broad shoulders and an athletic build– perfect.
(Again, I am married, so I am speaking about past preference.)
I observe some of my female friends in their late thirties and early forties. They have never been married and over the years I have watched them casually throw away some really amazing guys. Of course, those amazing guys went on to get married to girls who appreciated them while my friends are still wondering why they are unmarried.
From a woman’s perspective, I do not understand why some women have these very arbitrary lists. But, in the end, it is those women who will find themselves alone because they have these lists that are so unreasonable that hardly any man alive can live up to them.
AND if a short guy is genuinely a great guy, I can guarantee that he will find a woman who appreciates him.
Mary 641
I am getting fit and healthy. There are good guys and bad guys out there. I like the way Mark Katz gives advise mostly he hits the nail on the head. So Here I am Short, 61, happy, kind of cute for an older woman and ready to mingle with the right guy. In my case I will be happy with or without the Man but I would rather find him because it is fun to do life with a best man friend.
What will be will be. As we think, so we are.
Jason 642
Ya’ll are a hoot. I’m 5’7″(and a guy), about 150lbs, don’t work out but I’m very active and not much body fat. Online dating is a JOKE, you’re honest and you get no love, look at women’s pages and they’re all looking for 6′ or taller, it’s ridiculous(you do know the average height of men in the US is like 5’9″). It’s ok, I do pretty well in person once people actually meet me and they see more than my physical rap sheet. I’ve even been told I’m the “perfect height” to walk with hand in hand or with my arm around their shoulder. It just pisses me off that so many possibilities are cut off because of this false idea of what women want. Maybe us guys should put on our profiles that we don’t want to date a girl who weighs more than 110lbs, so you girls that are 115lbs tough luck…… reminds me of one of my highschool crushes, the girl was tall and athletic and she had a guy who dumped her because she weighed 150lbs, I thought she was hot.
Main idea: keep your physical attributes realistic.
Paragon 643
@ Suzy.
“Interestingly, a recent study found that individuals find others attractive who have a very different immune system than their own. Apparently this is communicated via the pheramones and received at a subconscious level by the opposite sex.”
Which study was that?
The only ones I know of, show that human females prefer the scent of those males possessing dissimilar MCH genotypes.
There has been some correlation measured between MCH dissimilarity, and long-term mate choice – but studies that show this relationship are inconsistent(neither is it mediated by pheramones in any obvious way), and thus the findings are inconclusive.
“I still remember the first time I met him in person. I was meeting him at a restaurant on the water to catch a late dinner. I was standing on the curb outside the restaurant and waiting. I caught a man through the corner of my eye walking through the parking lot and I thought “wow, but that WILL NOT be him…too hot.” Well, that man walked up to me, smiled, extended his hand, and introduced himself. That (my now husband, the man in the profile picture) had a completely different presence/comportment in real life. A single picture could in no way begin to capture all of his marvelous qualities.
Further, the picture could not even begin to capture how attractive he actually was in real life.”
All this suggests is that his photo was unrepresentative – some people are not photogenic.
But, it is quite a leap to infer that pheramones were the deciding factor(which, in any case, could not have been a limiting factor online).
“Presently, I am a doctoral student in clinical psychology and my interest has always been to figure out what makes romantic relationships work.”
It sounds like you already have some assumptions, below.
“Sometimes I wish that everyone in this world looked exactly the same so that people would have to take someone’s personality into account rather than their external appearance.
When I was in my early twenties, I was very shallow in the looks department. Looking back now, I see how many great guys I wrote off as just friends becausethey didn’t meet my physical requirements. With the perspective I have now I would have dated every single one of them.”
It appears that when accorded near infinite options for ‘sampling’ individual men, women rely upon indications of physical attractiveness to split the hairs in their selection process.
As they age(and their own attractiveness declines) their options decrease, which they then internalize as an evolution of choice(in reducing cognitive dissonance) – hence a pattern where many older women come to ‘second guess’ many selection biases held in their youth.
“I observe some of my female friends in their late thirties and early forties. They have never been married and over the years I have watched them casually throw away some really amazing guys. Of course, those amazing guys went on to get married to girls who appreciated them while my friends are still wondering why they are unmarried.
From a woman’s perspective, I do not understand why some women have these very arbitrary lists. But, in the end, it is those women who will find themselves alone because they have these lists that are so unreasonable that hardly any man alive can live up to them.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Many men have come to resent being placed on the ‘backburner’ while women ride the carousel, but fortunately for them, more and more(and at increasingly younger ages) are coming to realize that they have better options, if they only broaden their search parameters beyond local(ie. national/cultural/racial) boundaries.
Horace 644
Nice post Paragon 643
I notice there is a whole world of women in their 40s, 50′s, some even in their 60′s and a tiny amount in their late 30s looking for life long partners. Most of these women have been divorced two, three or more times, and some of them have grown up kids who have had kids themselves. Young grammas get with the new short guy craze because they don’t want to be left alone.
Poor ladies with their fading looks and extra weight can’t attract the tall, hot guys that used and abused them in their youthful days so they turn their attention to the shorter guys. Worse than that is the perception that some of these women carry with them at this advanced age. The belief that short guys are fourth class citizens who should be thankful and lucky to get any attention from women is common. The belief that short guys have no business dating women or getting married unless the woman has exhausted all of her tall guy options, is common. The belief that short guys are useless and wastes of men until an over-the-hill, overweight woman, not too far from retirement age herself finds practical use for them is common.
I steer very clear of these women. I have no use for any woman who thinks my short self was put on this earth to serve her and provide her with happiness when she’s well past her prime. I don’t wait on women to decide 30, 40, or 50 years into their lives to tell me I’m good enough for them to be with. It’s insulting. Sometimes I might give one or two of these ladies a taste of my world before I cut them off myself. It’s only a matter of time before they start to show their true heightist ways. Some don’t care and move on to the next short guy they can get their hands on. Some desperately try to hold on to me realizing that they can’t do any better.
The most dangerous of these types are the ladies with no kids in their late 30′s and early 40′s. The desperation in getting pregnant means a short guy with half-decent looks is fair game.
Julia 645
Wow Horace, I would suggest you seek therapy, you have some really low opinions of yourself and of women.
My brother is a short man, at 26 he is handsome and he never has a shortage of women. The difference between him and other short men complaining they can’t meet women, confidence.
Paragon 646
@ Julia
“ My brother is a short man, at 26 he is handsome and he never has a shortage of women. The difference between him and other short men complaining they can’t meet women, confidence.”
You are observing a spurious correlation.
Confidence is not an a priori quantity – it follows success, rather than proceeds it.
Suzy 647
In all, there are two main ways I look at the dating game– and this is
just an opinion and an observation:
I have observed that it is not unlike a market place in that each person in the dating game has a ‘market value’ based on looks, finances, age, station in life,
family name, education, gender, fertility, and a host of other things. The individuals who won the genetic jackpot and who are wealthy have the ‘highest’ market value.
Other individuals who have ‘high market value’ based on the same things have access to these people. This is the cynical way to view it.
On the other hand, lacking material wealth and physical beauty can be partially made up by having a great personality and intelligence.
Still, in an ideal world, people would get past physical appearance. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen.
Therefore, my advice to all individuals is to become the type of person they would want to marry.
As for women discriminating against short men, I do not know why they do it and I think those women are missing out.
Horace 648
Hi Julia
First of all, I don’t have a low opinion of myself. I honestly feel pretty good about myself mentally and physically. I have a sound mind and I’m in better shape than tons of guys nearly twice as young as me. I do take pride in taking care of myself and living a healthy life. It’s very rewarding.
You are right about one thing though. I do have low opinions of some women, just not all of them. Specifically, I have no use for the superficial, heightist, short-man-hating types who polarize the mate selection process with their stupid beliefs. This goes for women of all heights who judge men on the criteria that he must stand X amount of inches tall in order to be considered worthy. You can’t and will never understand this premise because you are a woman.
About confidence? Let’s be real here OK.
Confidence is a twisted and jaded subject when paralled with the issue of women’s height preference in men. FYI, confident short guys are almost always met with the Napoleon stamp or having short-man-syndrome. Very few women measure confidence equally in men. Short guys lacking confidence make it easier for taller people to reinforce negatives and unscientific theories of inferiority. Society strongly fears the short guy who strives for what he wants in life, especially if he betters a taller person at anything. It goes against western culture’s rules of life. There are tons of studies with no scientific real merit suggesting tall people are better, smarter, earn more money, and are more fundamentally sound in general than shorter people. Short guys of course the primary subject of comparison. So any sign of short guy success in this world is often unfairly questioned and it usually means that he’s trying too hard or he’s overcompensating due to his short stature.
Tall guys often don’t need confidence because his height gives him a free pass with women. A tall guy with confidence is just a blessing for women that adds to his height. Women are known to sacrifice confidence and personality in a tall guy just because he’s tall. They rarely sacrifice it for a short guy. In fact, an honest short guy with a smidget of confidence is frought with more rejection and insults. His height makes for an easy excuse for women to discard him due to his false overachieving personality.
OBTW, my issues has less to do with meeting women and more to do with being treated fairly and earning the respect in this world that I have rightfully worked hard for. Now, I care a lot less about the world of women and relationships because I’ve learned to appreciate other things in life as I have aged. Life is too short to not take advantage of what the world has to offer. Family, friendships, the arts, physical fitness, fine cuisine and having a good belly laugh are much more important to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I still have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for women. Just very few of them.
Lor 649
I prefer short men! But then…I am 4 ft 10!
LC 650
I’m 5′-10″, strawberry blond, and I date all types. I like guys who are in good shape regardless of their height b/c I work out and take care of myself. My uncle who’s 6′-2″ married a woman who’s 4’11″ tall, and he always said that we’re all the same height when we’re laying down. There are far more pressing things to judge someone on than their height. What about their heart, honor, loyalty, sense of humor, and ability to be a friend? In the end, we all get old and looks to go zero. The only enduring traits are those that are on the inside. Take the time to see who someone is on the inside, and see if you’re not attracted to them. It’s impossible to love someone who is evil and mean–no matter what they look like. It may take time to fall in love with someone who you may not be initially lustful towards, but the feelings that are formed over time due to love and respect do not fade away.
donkey 651
forget your actual height, what about the length of what’s in your pants. What have the academics said about that? personally I wont marry a man below 6inches even if wilt chaimberlain.
Sheyna 652
Too true donkey. I have mostly been in LTRs with guys that are my height. I was really excited to hook up with a few very tall guys over the past year but was dismayed to learn that height is not a reliable proxy for that metric.
Shane 653
I’m a male 5’3 (165cm) and I have resigned myself to the idea that I will never find the mate I’m looking for because of my height. So I’ve excelled in my career so that I can afford to purchase sex from the most beautiful escorts in all parts world. It has been the most liberating experience of my life. I can now live my life with peace and happiness knowing that I too can be as shallow as women without any guilt.
sarahrahrah! 654
Cha-ching!
I’ve gotten a dating bargain! I’m dating a short, slightly balding, really hot looking professional man with a great job, a wicked sense of humor and a sweet, easy-going disposition. We also have a lot in common and did I mention he is a great kisser?
In the past, I have been more interested in tall guys for superficial reasons. After a bad divorce from a tall man who used to tease me about being small (read: mean Alpha), I became more attracted to shorter men because I identified with them and felt more comfortable around them.
Honestly, I can’t believe how easy and nice this is! I’m early into this relationship, but, objectively, this guy beats me hands down on paper. The great part is he actually appreciates me, too! Yay! It’s great being liked by someone who isn’t highly sought after by many women! :) The lack of arrogance is refreshing and I do not feel like I’m being taken for granted.
Thank you, Evan, for coaching women to consider dating different types of men.
Horace 655
Hey Shane 653,
Very good answer! Couldn’t have said it better myself!
I would highly advise you to be as picky as possible. Get exactly who you pay for and never ever settle for anyone less. Not when choosing an escort that’s for sure. More women, young and middle-aged, with less than stellar looks are getting into the hooker trade. It makes more sense for these not-so-attractive ladies to dive right into the sex trade business if they want some action. Tall guys don’t want them and settling down with a short guy is a no-no. Her solution? Sacrifice her ego and pride while taking a job getting paid to have sex with the guys that society deems inferior. Trust me, she has no problems taking money from the short guy as long as he’s not courting her for a real relationship. At the same time, she has no problems spreading her legs for free if the guy is tall and good looking. Heck, she’ll take her price tag down, close shop and pose normally if there’s the possibility of a legitimate date with the tall guy. She might even pay for the date herself.
The good-looking girls who are escorts are high quality, high caliber, high society hookers. You won’t get remotely close to those kind unless you shell out serious dollars. A lot of them have a high price tag just for the most minimal of services to begin with. Some won’t even take your money if you don’t physically appeal to them. Yes, heightism is alive and well, even in the sex trade business.
You do make a very good point. There’s no reason to feel guilty or shallow about paying for a service if it means you’re getting exactly what you want with your money.
Remember, getting paid to have sex that sometimes includes a free dinner, free drinks with free hotel fees is a ridiculously easy job for women.
Enjoy.
Stan 656
well, one commenter said she is fat, and we are in the same boat of undesirables.I am short too. So I wonder why the fat girls hate us short guys. I like fat girls, but they don’t seem to want me in return. It’s puzzling how they still manage to hold out for the tall athletic guys. Although in the end, every one wants who they want and you can’t fault them for it. I just find fat girls hotter than skinny girls. Personal preference – not set in stones.
jusme 657
I am 5’10″. I tower over my friends already so I seriously do not give men shorter than 6’2″ a glance….. anymore. My daughter’s father is 5’7″ish maybe. When we were together, standing next to him made me sooo uncomfortable. Like all the time. Loved him but I swore he was shrinking and I was growing. After we broke up (for a number of other reasons), I never messed with another man shorter than me. Not even my height. I went 6’2″, 6’4″ and now my man is 6’7″. And he calls me a midget, I effin love it. I just love the feeling of a man towering me, no matter barefoot or 4″ heels.
Horace 658
Hi Sarahrahrah
Glad to know that you’ve shed your superficial skin for the purpose of a better relationship. Very few women in todays world(mostly American in my experience) are capable of letting go of prehistoric traditions. I’m surprised it took you only one divorce to recognize and understand that shorter men are good men too. It usually takes women 3 or more divorces and a boatload of subsequent rejections from tall men that they can’t attract anymore. Settling for short guys is the next best bet if it means not being alone LOL! Isn’t it nice to know that the guy you’re with is actually interested in what lies between your ears as opposed to those who constantly focus on whats between your legs or your cup size?
The lack of arrogance may be refressing to you by dating the shorter guy that’s for sure. The amount of ignorance displayed by modern women pertaining to so-called short guy inferiority is still very disturbing to me. It doesn’t surprise me at all though. Hating on shorter guys and disrespecting shorter people is a wrongfully accepted prejudice in our society. It won’t change overnight unless shorter people start boycotting everything and anything that serves as a polite or subliminal height prejudice. The tall world doesn’t need our money so why give it to them? Standing up and fighting for our rights is pointless because the resulting behavioural pattern is passed off as aggressive or worse which is Napoleanic for a short guy.
Cmderfunk81 659
lol you say you would never give a man shorter then 6’2” the time of day yet the father of your child is 5’7” Apparently you’re not that repulsed by short men because you let yourself get impregnated by one.
Doesn’t matter if you’re not with him anymore or you would never date a short man again his work is done, his seed has been spread.
Cmderfunk81 660
I will never data woman who is below a C cup I absolutely hate small boobs it’s a huge turn off. This is the truth.
Therefore for me to give a woman a hard time because she will not date a man who is below a certain height would be very hypocritical.
Yeah I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been called a shallow, sexist, pig because of my preferences for large breasts. Whether it’s in internet forums like this or in real life. I just laugh. because these are the same women who would never date a short man or a man who didn’t have good earning potential yet I am insulted and put down because of my preferences. So women can have standards and men can’t?
Sammy 661
Fat women likely experience a lot of the same prejudices that short men do, however it is not socially acceptable to openly talk about or treat fat women the way that short men are. Humans are abusive and dominating by nature so the fair treatment of others has to be legislated (otherwise it would still be OK that women couldn’t vote or that you could own black slaves, etc…). The treatment of short men in our society demonstrates how humans are anything but civil. I’m not one of those people who would try and convince women to change their preferences for tall men, because it is what it is (though I do believe the media reinforces this).
+1 for visiting escorts with no shame and if you do encounter one who is obviously heightist and provides poor service, complain to management or demand your money refunded.
jenny 662
I am 5′ 7″ and was in a relationship with a man of the same height for two years. The constant ridicule from my friends was enough to put me off dating short men completely.
Clare 663
Just my two cents on this issue. Especially to the guys who say women aren’t interested in dating shorter guys and treat them badly. Because I am a small, and only nearly 5′ 4”, as long as a guy is not shorter than me, I have no problem dating a guy who is short. Societal prejudice be damned.
It doesn’t bother me, as long as it doesn’t bother *you*.
(Btw, short guys, small women should be your target market. Pretty obvious stuff, huh?)
Andrea 664
‘Tall, Dark and Handsome’ is a term often used by a single lady looking for a match. You don’t hear ‘short, pasty, and bald’.
My reasoning behind it is this:
tall=successful. There are so many studies linking height to success, which in turn equals financial security. We all know financial problems are leading cause to divorce. Also, procreating with a tall man may mean tall children which in turn can mean succesfull children (sports, work). you always hear moms commenting on how tall little Charlie is, tallest in his class…bravo.
Dark=tanned. When I think of a tanned man I picture the way a man may get a tan. Surfing on the beach, playing outdoor soccer, doing lawn work, bike riding, etc. All appealing activities to a woman. You can’t help but think that a man with such a great tan must have washboard abs.
Handsome. Well that one is self explanatory.
So when someone going on match.com or similar, which for a woman is the closest thing to a ‘mail-in-bride’ then yes, women will choose the most desired qualities.
No one is saying that we aren’t aren’t being unrealistic/shallow while searching for ‘prince charming’.
But make no mistake that these same women wont realize that when meeting the average height, untanned, thinned hair man with the best salsa moves and most charming personality will last long on the market.
And if perhaps the short man is still single, then maybe it may not be his height that needs to be changed. Your version of the ‘perfect man’ despite his height, may not be a womans same view of perfection.
Nicole 665
@Andrea, not everyone is white. Some of us are dark naturally, so for example, “dark” is what i find most attractive b/c it’s what I am, and has zero to do with suntan. Just something to think about. I’ll be dark if I’m locked in a closet all month and so will the men I find MOST attractive.
I don’t get why people get so angry about the people don’t like them. I also don’t get they they still want to find someone else to stomp on. If being short is such a handicap, then you’d think people would see the value in having a nice personality. And a lot of the short men griping here sound bitter, angry, and entitled. So how is any woman going to find that charming.
If you feel you deserve a certain kind of woman, i really do not understand why you must coat that sense of entitlement with so much vitriol thrown at women. Not the old ones, not the ugly ones, not the fat ones. You don’t want them. That’s fine. So why do you need to suggest it means you are entitled to more than them? If you hate women so much, why are you even looking for one?
I’m not going to say, oh gross, how could anyone date a man who is 5’4. It’s not gross even if it’s not my cup of tea, and I see plenty of short men who do just fine with the ladies ,but they are attractive, smart, sweet, and oh yeah, not bitter a$$holes.
Janet 666
Clare663
Just my two cents on this issue. Especially to the guys who say women aren’t interested in dating shorter guys and treat them badly. Because I am a small, and only nearly 5′ 4”, as long as a guy is not shorter than me, I have no problem dating a guy who is short. Societal prejudice be damned.
It doesn’t bother me, as long as it doesn’t bother *you*.
ARE YOU SURE IT DOESN’T BOTHER YOU, CLARE? YOU JUST SAID YOU WOULDN’T DATE A MAN SHORTER THAN YOU, SO IT OBVIOUSLY BOTHERS YOU.
PRETTY OBVIOUS, DUH?
Clare 667
@ Janet #666
It only bothers me to the extent of the guy being shorter than me, I think most women feel this way.
But my point was, because I am short, far more guys will be taller than me than a woman who is 5′ 10”. Even 5′ 7” has been mentioned in this post as being short for a guy, and my point was, to a woman who is 5′ or 5′ 2”, this is going to be much less of an issue because he is still taller than her. I’m not saying NO small women will be bothered by a shorter guy, I’m just saying they are probably less likely to be bothered by it.
I just meant to me, this is pretty obvious
Janet 668
@ Jenny. Maybe the real ridicule you should have should be towards those friends who “ridiouled” you for a boyfriend who was obviously decent enough to be a boyfriend for two years. So you wouldn’t date a guy your height or lower because of friends who may ridicule you? What kind of friends are they?
OzJulie 669
Wow stumbled across this and amazed at so much energy into so many posts when perhaps ya’ll should spend it on dating!
I would just like a guy to ask me out on a date. Tall, short or in between. Asian, white or black or mongrel. But not too fat cos it’s just unhealthy and I can’t stand snoring.
Horace 670
Hi Jenny 662
Your post sounds typical of women who are always more pre-occupied with how the girlfriends feel about HIS size and HIS height. Is it safe to say that your femininity is strictly depedent on being with a taller guy? It amazes me that so many women still need strict approval from the girlfriends to decide whether a guy is worthy enough or good enough to date. It is ridiculous in this day and age. The fact that you’re willing to go to such extreme lengths cutting out a specific sector of men because you can’t deal with your friends making fun of his height is shallow and shameful.
I’m so glad to have met and known some amazing, self-sufficient, confident women of all heights who didn’t let her girlfriends dictate her dating life. Some of them were upwards of 5’10 to well over 6’0 and they never had issues with my 5’6. Only society says it’s a fetish if a tall woman is attracted to a shorter guy and vice-versa. Why is it not a fetish when a super short girl is attracted to or dating a guy over a foot taller and vice-versa?
Aloha 671
Hello
I think short women are more talkative than tall women. The tall women are very snobbish and “cold”. Thats my experience.
Wilton 672
Ok, here’s mine as a 5’5 guy and just barely at that. The shortest girl I dated was 5’2, the tallest was just under 6’1. I’ve dated more women my height and taller because they are more accepting of my height. Ain’t gonna lie. It’s the truth. More short women have issue with short guys and they prefer the six foot and up dudes. Fine by me that’s OK. Ancient traditions maybe? Perhaps. Other short women prefer guys the same height or as close to eye level as possible. I find that really cool too. It’s amazing to lock eyes with your girl without moving your head an inch. Mind you, dating a much taller woman who digs being with a guy much shorter than her is a fantastically fun experience. You don’t even notice the height difference because you’re both too busy enjoying each other. I’d romp all over that any time a tall woman looks my way. Right off the bat she’s telling me that my height is of no concern to her. Might even be a turn-on LOL! I recomened it to all short guys who are thinking about finding the guts to approach that tall hotty. Find em! You’ve got nothing to lose. She says no, you say next! Tall girls do yourself a favour if you just happen to be one of those tall hotties who digs a shorter man. Get his attention before any other girl does! What have you got to lose without doing jumping-jacks? He says no, you say seeya! Everyone’s gotta deal with rejection but you won’t get what you want by watching it pass you by and stare at you in the face. I used to feel sorry for guys even shorter than me but not as much anymore. I’ve seen tons of smaller guys in the 5’1, 5’2, 5’3 range dating hot, beautiful women, some taller than me.
Anathema 673
sarahrahrah! 654
“After a bad divorce from a tall man who used to tease me about being small (read: mean Alpha), I became more attracted to shorter men because I identified with them and felt more comfortable around them.
Honestly, I can’t believe how easy and nice this is!”
Going through a bad divorce doesn’t sound ‘easy’ to me.
Rather, it sounds like a poor history with tall men has inspired you to reconsider your options.
This is hardly a noble epiphany, and I suspect, is cold comfort to many short guys out there(knowing that they are relegated to only secondary considerations).
Jenny 662
“I am 5′ 7″ and was in a relationship with a man of the same height for two years. The constant ridicule from my friends was enough to put me off dating short men completely.”
This sounds like a cop-out.
Women seem to have no problem resisting peer pressure, or overlooking a man’s reputation/status(think of the ‘successful’ ex-cons and deadbeats out there, who have no trouble finding a willing baby-mamma) when that man posseses desirable physical characteristics.
Go figure.
Clare 663
“Btw, short guys, small women should be your target market. Pretty obvious stuff, huh?”
That’s a great idea claire!
But, maybe you should try convincing the majority of short women who(like most other women, irrespective of their own height)
PREFER average, or taller than, men.
Andrea 664
“tall=successful.”
This reasoning has largely been debunked(in this very thread, no less) – the effects of height on male income are negligible, and thus cannot possibly account for a strong bias one way or another.
“Dark=tanned. When I think of a tanned man I picture the way a man may get a tan. Surfing on the beach, playing outdoor soccer, doing lawn work, bike riding, etc. All appealing activities to a woman. You can’t help but think that a man with such a great tan must have washboard abs.”
And what is the implicit value of having washboard abs?
Intrinsically, they neither imply that one is more fit, or disciplined.
“No one is saying that we aren’t aren’t being unrealistic/shallow while searching for ‘prince charming’.
But make no mistake that these same women wont realize that when meeting the average height, untanned, thinned hair man with the best salsa moves and most charming personality will last long on the market.”
These are contradictory statements.
If women are unrealistically pursuing an idealized ‘prince charming’, it implies that they are NOT inclined to ‘settle’ for MR. distinctly average with the great personality(a quality that is, at any rate, impossible to convey if women are prepared to disqualify a man according to other criteria – which is all but a certainty, where online dating is concerned).
Nicole 665
“Some of us are dark naturally, so for example, “dark” is what i find most attractive b/c it’s what I am”
If this was a valid explanation, then short overweight women should ‘prefer’ short overweight men(clearly they do not).
“I don’t get why people get so angry about the people don’t like them.”
People tend to resent others who dislike them(for what should be more or less obvious reasons).
This is, indeed, normal behavior – so what’s difficult to understand?
“If being short is such a handicap, then you’d think people would see the value in having a nice personality.”
When men are being explicitly rejected for being short, it does not logically follow that ‘personality’ is the relevant consideration.
“And a lot of the short men griping here sound bitter, angry, and entitled. So how is any woman going to find that charming.”
A better question might be, how many women are likely to overlook a short stature in favor of a ‘positive attitude’?
It should be quite obvious, if not only from the tone of this thread, what the answer to THAT question is.
“I’m not going to say, oh gross, how could anyone date a man who is 5’4. It’s not gross even if it’s not my cup of tea”
It’s easy to be dispassionately indifferent when it is not YOUR concern.
“and I see plenty of short men who do just fine with the ladies ,but they are attractive, smart”
In other words they are *exceptional* in some way.
But, tell me, how does that render a practical solution for the *typical* short guy out there(likely the bitter guys posting in this topic)?
“and oh yeah, not bitter a$$holes”
Bitterness follows from being deprived of options(for love and sex).
Is it helpful?
Of course not.
But, in this case it is an obvious ’cause’, and not an ‘effect’.
Janet 674
@ Anathema. You really hit a lot of thermes right on the head in pointing out all the contradicitons. It seems the short guys are being rejected solely on the basis of their height and their positive attributes ignored just on the basis of short stature alone, unless they are truly exceptional in some way (how many men – and women are exceptional?). I hear fellow women complain all the time about glass ceilings, double standards, male preoccupation with looks (weight especially) and so on, yet when a man states his version of the double standard based on height, he is in some ways bitter? C’mon ladies. Good comments, Anathema.
Lilly 675
I’m 5 8″ and wouldn’t date a short guy even if he was bill gates. 6″ is the least i could go… anything less won’t work. Sorry short guys. I understand how hard it is for short men, at the same time, it will be totally unfair to me to date someone out of sheer pity.
Welcome to this present American society where superficiality reigns supreme, and shallowness is now the order of the day. Hence, if you’re a short man, you’re pretty much screwed. My advice for you is to go get some pets.. that’s probably what you would be spending the rest of your life with.
K 676
@Lilly’s comment is amusing. I’m an average height (5’5) woman and I’m not typically attracted to shorter men (under 5’10). I did make an effort to try to change that this year and dated several men closer to my height. It wasn’t for me, but I won’t rule anything out. Generally I like taller men and fortunately they like me. If I wasn’t finding enough of them in that group I’d expand that’s what it comes down to. I don’t judge men who don’t date me because I’m a few years older than they would like (I can’t change that). Or that maybe a few pounds heavier than they’d like (I don’t want to be unhealthy). Or that I’m not blonde (as a tan woman I’d look funny). Or that I don’t have a c-cup (I like how I look). So to those men saying the double standards thing it doesn’t apply to me. Also I do see a height bias often, but I also know lots of women in my social circle who think its funny and odd. They would rather date someone really cute or nice or smart and height is of little impact to them (usually as long as not shorter than them). I on the other hand will date less attractive, less fit (a little belly is nothing to me) if taller. To each its own.
Horace 677
Hi Lilly 675,
Nice post. Thank you for justifying what I’ve been preaching for a long time now. America is the superfical, heightist capital of the world. Some states in the union aren’t as heightist as others but most of America lives and dies by what Hollywood says. The women choose men based on prehistoric ideology. It makes perfect sense why divorce is common and marriages lasting more than 3 years are a thing of the past. Funny how you say get some pets? You know something, a dog is a lot more reliable and loyal as a partner than most women in todays world.
Thankfully, not all women who stand 5’8 or taller are as anal as you are about male height preference. Women who sport the “he must be this tall to enjoy this ride” outfit are usually characterless and ordinary. How can you be unique or interesting as a person if everything you see fit in a mate starts and ends with height and nothing else? Following the whims of the status quo makes for a boring, unexciting life.
SalsaQ 678
@Horace
Dating is unfair. A double amputee can’t help his/her legs are missing, but guess what, a lot of women/men won’t date him/her because of that. How about a woman who is extremely unintelligent. Not her fault, but hey, you would probably be bored with her, am I right? Would you date her?
You sound angry about the unfairness of being judged or passed over for reasons beyond your control. What does that anger do for you besides pump up your adrenaline and ruin your day? Let it go and date the women who don’t care or like your height.
Lilly’s pet comment was very insensitive because it implies your dating pool is zero. You know that is not true, so ignore it. At least someone like Lilly won’t try to date a short man, and then break his heart when she acknowledges it won’t work.
@Shane653
Your story is sad. You have given up on love, but you would not be spending money on sex with another person if there was not someone special and emotional about that connection. There are women out there. Keep trying.
hespeler 679
I just dated a 6 foot woman for a while. It was going great and I really started to fall for her. She went back to her 5 foot 7 ex-boyfriend. I’m 6’2″.
Nicole 680
@Hespeler,
I think a lot of the short men complaining here don’t have good personalities.
I’m not tall but most of the women in my family are 5’11 and up, and many of them have dated and married men who were shorter. I also do not hear them put down short men.
A lot of people act pretty ugly and they get what they give, but they always want to make it about other people.
B/c in the real world, people of every type are paired off, and the so-called “undesirables” are frequently with attractive partners (but if you meet them, they are otherwise delightful people who seem easy to love, so it shouldn’t be a surprise).
Kathleen 681
Im 6 foot in heels and I remember 2 of my best lovers EVER were shorter than me. I have other tall women friends who have also had a similar experience.
So long as the guy is masculine, attractive, very confident and weighs more than me I wouldn’t rule him out.
Anathema 682
Nicole
So, your reasonable conclusion, is that the women here claiming to dislike short men(and the men claiming to have been explicitly rejected for being short), are lying(simply because this would clash with your own selective observations)?
And just because someone is bitter over being constantly rejected(again, normal behavior), doesn’t make someone an a$$hole, does it?
From many of the comments you leave on this blog, one might be forgiven for assuming that you, yourself, are bitter.
Does that mean that you have a ‘bad’ personality as well?
hespeler 683
Nicole 680,
Not sure how delightful this woman is as she essentially used me as an emotional tampon until she was ready to go back to her at the time ex-bf (now I know how woman who get used for sex feel).
She still contacts me every once in a while. I’d like to find her bf and talk to him man-to-man to let him know how delightful of a gf he has.
Of course I’m being sarcastic to help mend my personal wounds but I agree w you in general. One of my good friends is very short and his wife is 5’11″ and they have a great marriage.
NB 684
My thoughts: get a little backbone, and get a little discretion.
BeenThruTheWars (#12) put it well:
>> “I will say this: I once stood in an airport security line in L.A. and a guy struck up a conversation with me… man, was the chemistry UNBELIEVABLE. He was totally hot looking, blond, off to Hawaii on a diving trip. We flirted for the duration then went our separate ways. That was the day I realized, OHH, yeah… I could totally date a guy his height. Which was? Well, he came up to my chin and I’m 5’5″, so… after that, I never put a height restriction on my dating but wound up with 6’2″ anyway. Go figure. I also said I would NEVER marry a smoker… and I did. So for me, it kinda comes down to, is a guy’s height REALLY a deal breaker?”
So, I say:
1) Challenge your ideas of deal-breakers. Assert yourself and go out with someone who physically you think you’d not want, and see how it feels. I mean, don’t make it a practice of pursuing guys you have zero attraction for, but do some experimentation.
2) I’m a gay man, and so there’s no societal conception about whether the guy I’m with is supposed to be taller or shorter than me. (I suppose there is some tendency to want to roughly height-matched, but I don’t know.) What I meant about “use some discretion” (I really mean, be discreet) is that I think it’s just part of having good social skills to put other people at ease, whenever possible, when interacting with them. So, whether that means giving up high heels (trust me, I understand vanity, I’ve got plenty of it, but please? Being deprived of shoes as an irritation that weighs into whether to scuttle a relationship?), or making it a practice to discreetly stand down a step when going up an escalator together so that you’re at eye-level, or avoiding foreplay while standing up (lead him to the couch to make out, where you’ll be eye to eye while seated) and not diving in right after coming in the door, or whatever – - my point is to just make the little gestures that equalize your height whenever possible, and don’t make a big deal of it.
And as far as having a little backbone, I mean steeling yourself a bit against that lazy habit (which we all have, I’m no exception) of being so invested in how the first impression of being seen by others looks. I’ve dated men much shorter than me, where our appearance as a couple did seem a bit comical, perhaps, but then we started a conversation with someone and the energy rapidly shifted to how we were a couple of smart guys with interesting things to say.
My current partner has HIV, which due to medication side effects makes him look about 10 years older than me even though we’re really the same age. When I met him, I admired how deftly he would, in meeting new people, drop some hint of his real age (he was 40 at the time, looked 50), and once people figured that out, they would seem to relate to him better. So, I do have to acknowledge that the way the guy presents himself and feels about himself is indeed a big factor in their and my being socially comfortable with them. But I think it’s each of our jobs to not be the will-o-the-wisp that just has an instant reaction of prejudice or judgment, especially on something visual.
I also acknowledge that intimate relationships are special categories of connection, and that it’s ok to be a bit arbitrary in one’s preferences. But I think arbitrary to the point of rigid is a sign of someething going on in a person’s character that I don’t think would let me respect them over the long term.
I mean, as an example, what are you going to do someday if your husband’s mobility declines and he needs a wheelchair to get around? Never go out again? I sometimes see people just exclude such a person from a conversation in a social situation, maybe because it seems awkward to bend down or whatever. (Don’t be that person.) So, fricking find a chair and pull it up next to them and have a conversation!
Challenging yourself on these arbitrary things is good for you, good for us all.
sarahrahrah! 685
@ Horace #658
I’m definitely not settling by being with my short guy. I think that I wrote that the guy I’m with beats me on paper, meaning that he’s got a lot going for him and I recognize that.
It’s not that I have *not* considered short guys in the past, but I do have to say that it has been my experience that they haven’t always been as confident as taller guys that I’ve known in my past. With the guy that I’m currently with, I needed to be both patient and encouraging because he was not particularly aggressive. I didn’t pursue him, but I was friendly and that worked. I think that in the past, the tall guys charged on ahead and I just went with them just because they we’re pursuing me. If short, appealing men had pursued me as aggressively, I might have wound up with them instead.
Good luck on the short discrimination boycott idea. I don’t know how that would work, but more power to you. :)
Priya 686
Evan,
This article makes me inclined to not read anything else you write again with regards to how women view men and how they act. In other articles you’ve written, such as ’How men are happier being single then women’ or how men ‘find love when looking for sex and women looking for love find sex’ etc. you bang on about how women just NEED to accept that men think with their penises, and in effect just wait around for you to make up your lazy, self-indulgent minds (and allow you to be that way) simply because it is the ‘way you are’. But here you deny the way women inherently think and it really upsets me. We look for men that make us feel safe. End of point. Except that I’m going to elaborate because your reasoning seems to be one-sided. The same way certain body proportions (over which we have little genetic control) will continually cue a man into wanting a female as a reproductive partner at the very least, we are cued to notice and want physical status, bright colours, signs of strength and the ability to withstand the assaults of ‘life’ (even if we live in an age of technology where throwing spears and battling with animals is not necessary).
If you want to force your 5′ 3″ friend on us, completely oblivious of why his height may be subconsciously, if not consciously, important to women then I suggest you write an article to men forcing them to forego their increasingly committment-phobe and emotion-free sexual ways and commit to a woman even if they don’t want to because ‘what the heck is wrong with her? Answer me that, my fellow male?’ Somehow I don’t think that will happen so because of that I MAY read things you write in the future, but I surely will take it all with a huge box of salt and maybe disregard it altogether. I hope your friend finds someone who recognizes his worth as a human being (as I’m sure he’s a great person), but we ask the same of men.
Janet 687
Priya,
Feel safe from what? What do you need protected from?
Cmderfunk81 688
Her own stupidity I am guessing.
Jen 689
I’m fully willing to date shorter guys (I’m only 5’4″ though), but I’m tired of men saying they’re 5’6″ and then they’re only 5’3″ or so. I’m willing to date a man who’s 5’3″, but if you misrepresent yourself (purposely saying the wrong height, weight, waaaay outdated photo, etc) then I most certainly will not date you or be attracted to you. I’m willing to date short men, slightly overweight men, bald men, but I will never date a liar.
kaushi 690
I am 5.4 and I am dating a guy who is 5.5. Although i have felt sometimes that he isn’t that attractive or worry that we seem to be of the same height, I still feel an emotional attachment towards him and I like everything about him (his character) and that is what attracted me . And that is what made me decide that he would be loving, caring and a trustworthy partner. But I do like some of his facial features, and then his attitude,etc…Falling in love is something more than getting attracted to a person physically. But it may not be the same for everyone.
Priya 691
@Janet – in saying ‘feeling safe’ I was referring to the fact that certain needs females have with regards to their male mate may be ingrained. The ‘alpha male’ in packs are the biggest, strongest, and fastest and successfully mate with more females because of their ability to protect the members and be good gene stock for offspring. I personally don’t need protection from anything or anyone.
@Cmdrfunk81 – I am far from stupid, and if that is the best response you can muster, Mr. I Like Big Boobs then try harder. In my ‘stupid’ answer I actually referred to the fact that certain body proportions cue men into thinking of a woman as a better mate. This actually works in favour of your preferences, and you may have realized this if you had comprehended what I wrote. This is a 2 way-street from the females side is all I’m getting at. A 5′ 3″ male is taller than me and nowhere in my response did I say I would never go out with someone this height (you foolishly assumed this). I was just annoyed with how one-sided Evans views seem to be.
Joe 692
Priya, if you need protection, 9mm beats out 6′ just about every time.
Revo Luzione 693
Six-hundred and ninety-two responses is too many to read through in their entirety. So I didn’t, but I did use my Ctrl+F search function, and I didn’t see anyone mention elevator shoes for men.
Hey, why not? Women wear heels all the time. I’ve got a couple pair, a 1″ and a 2″ lift set. They are impossible to tell I have on, they just look identical to normal shoes. One of them are simple a set of high end men’s dress shoes that I had a cobbler add in some extra thickness to the sole, and added some heel lift myself.
I’m just under 5’9″, and I notice I get more looks & more positive reception when I go out wearing the tall shoes. I may consider getting a 3″ set soon.
Yes, eventually a woman will notice, but if you’ve already bonded with her (read: hot, sweaty, connected sex), then it is not likely to be a big deal. This is especially true if you act like it’s no big deal, put it back on her (“how many pairs of 3-4″ heels do you have in your closet?”). I see nothing wrong with this. Women wear makeup, heels, dye their hair, and so much more to make themselves look more attractive. A set of elevator boots? That’s nothing.
Oh, and lots of your favorite Hollywood boys do that too. Timberlake, for example, Vin Diesel, Tom Cruise, have all been known to wear lifts in their shoes.
John 694
I don’t know. This seems like a sales pitch to me (harping on a person’s insecurity).
I’m 5’5 1/2 (and a guy). I’ve never had problems getting dates. I’ve dated very pretty girls that were a head taller than me.
I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as everybody makes it out to be.
Joe 695
@ Revo: of course Tom Cruise wears lifts–he’s under 5’8″.
Ali G 696
I’m 5’3″, Caucasian and admittedly naturally petite (88-95 lbs. prepregnancy), married to a 5’4″ Asian man. Who is average weight and probably won’t go bald, but still, booyah
bobby 697
It’s biology. And, like everything in nature, its an unfair bitch.
There’s surgery to lengthen – looks painful as hell but I’d definitely do it if I had this issue.
Peter 698
The sad thing is, women prefer taller guys, its biological, and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it. I’m 5 foot 3 and I can tell you, I wish I had blown my brains out earlier, or had the guts to do it now.
Lucy 699
I think I might have already posted on this but yeah, here goes. Nominally height is not a factor for me. If someone asked me to describe my ideal man, I would mention personal qualities and not the physical. If I imagine my ideal man, I don’t even have a mental image of what he’ll look like. He could look like anyone as far as I’m concerned. If the attraction is there, it’s there and I won’t question something that’s true.
I’m 5ft 4-5″. I have dated men the same height as me. This doesn’t make me particularly noble. I don’t care. I pick out men that I like and get on with.
The issue I have with short men is the “short man complex” which is more common than you’d think. And if I dated a man shorter than me, my father would tell me to aim higher. He doesn’t pull any punches. He has nothing against short men but I guess he knows that since I’ve grown up in a tall family (despite being short), it will reflect in what I tend to find attractive.
People get judged. That’s life. No point in getting angry about it. I’m sure plenty of men judge me for not being slim, my slightly promiscuous behaviour and personal failures in certain areas. It’s hard but you’ve got to own what you’ve got and make it into a positive.
Revo Luzione 700
Peter, it’s not as bad as it seems. You just may need a change of city, or better, change of country.
In the US, the northeast and midwest & especially the great lakes states have high concentrations of tall, scandinavian descended people. These are not good areas to live in for shorter men.
In the southwestern US, particularly New Mexico & texas, there are a lot of native american & mexican descended people, who are a lot shorter and a lot more willing to date short people.
This effect is 10x in southeast Asia. Go to Thailand or Indonesia, you’ll fit right in.
But first, change your attitude and find your inner and outer strengths, and do your best to find the silver lining in being short.
For example, taller people are statistically more likely to get cancer (due to higher exposure to growth hormone throughout life.
Your attitude is 1000x more important than your height.
Cat5 701
We had a discussion about this issue last week at work.
As a 6″ tall woman, I get a lot of comments about how I should be dating shorter men to expand my dating pool. People often say that height doesn’t matter because [insert crude reference here]. People say these things to me despite the fact my ex-husband was shorter than me by an inch or two, and that I have dated many men shorter than me (and many men taller than me). The shortest gentleman I ever dated was 5′ 3″. He was a great guy but the height difference was just too awkward. I don’t mind an inch or two, but 9″ is just too much.
So when a 6’2″ gentleman said this to me last week, I asked him — So you would be okay dating a 6″ 11″ tall woman? a 6′ 5″ woman? a 6′ 2″ woman? Suddenly everything was different. Not only would he not date a 6′ 11″ woman, he didn’t think he would even date a 6′ 2″ woman. And most of the guys at the table agreed with him. A few even admitted they wouldn’t date me because I was 6′ and usually wore heels, making me at about 6′ 3″ most of the time.
So it’s not just women who have an issue with height. Men have their own also.
Janet 702
@Cat5. In my experience, yes, some men have a height issue as well. I suspect many are just not very confident and by being taller it makes them feel more manly. Isn’t it odd that taller guys have this insecurity? Tall men, like short women, have lots more options.
Greg 703
@ Peter 698…I feel for you I am 5′ 4″ was overwhelmed facing the reality of NO dating options…then a couple years ago I discovered the Philippines…men average 5″4″ women average 5″0″…the younger generation speaks English quite well… they are very attracted to foreign men…age differential is very accepted. Lots of online dating sites…just beware there are some that are there to earn a living scamming stupid men…keep your brain engaged and you will discover a paradise for us short men. Online contact is full of difficulties…but remember the Filipina’s entering the US through fiancee visa’s blows ALL other countries out of the water. I spent time there and men from ALL over the world flock there for there women…just use your common sense and you will never look back.
hunter 704
……..”as soon as I did away with the height issue, I have had more dates than ever..mostly with short women”…..
joe 705
Women are just shallow
starthrower68 706
That’s right Joe it’s ONLY women and it’s ALL women who are shallow…
Still-Looking 707
Joe@705
“Women are just shallow” — Hmmmm, perhaps your attitude might explain why you are having problems with having good relationships with women.
Yes, SOME women are shallow and SOME men are total jerks. Overall I’d have to say the vast majority of men and women are wonderful people.
GG 708
This story is a bit misleading though. He said he changed his location from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia. The pool of potential women immediately increased 5 fold because Philadelphia is five times the size of Pittsburgh.
lovelylinda 709
I am 5″8 and I’m seeing a very very sexy man who is 5″5. Love every single thing about him…would not for the world change a thing. I’m used to being with taller men sure but you don’t get to pick who you fall for…he’s THE best friend and lover i’ve ever had.
I am a very attractive woman (not meaning to be full of myself it’s a fact) but like everything in life..beauty fades mine will and so will the “beauty” of some 6″2 man. My guy is perfect…I don’t feel big beside him I don’t feel unfeminine – he makes me feel AMAZING.
Just my two cents….shine on little guys I think you are HOT
Jalla 710
Wow this is quite the thread. Kudos to those few short men who claim that they have no problems attracting women. As a 5’5″ straight male in Canada I have definitely experienced a lot of height discrimination in the dating world. I am reasonably good looking, friendly and outgoing, have never been significantly overweight and sometimes have been in great shape, and have a well-respected and well-paying career. I have had “my share” of women, I suppose, and I am now engaged to a great girl about my height, but my dating life as a whole has been very different from that of my taller friends. I’ve had far fewer partners and far fewer choices overall. A tall friend of mine last year, when rebounding, slept with more women in a few weeks than I have been with in my whole life (I’m 40). My tall friends get lots of dates and routinely go out with fitter women, saner women, and more successful women than I usually did.
To those of you who say that height discrimination against men by women is “natural” or “no big deal”, I call complete BS. In many other cultures in the world, male height does not matter nearly as much. There may be a mild “ingrained” female preference for taller men (just as there is probably a mild male “ingrained” preference for ample breasts) but this idea that a shorter man is simply not attractive or acceptable as a mate is completely a cultural construct.
No one should force themselves to date someone they are not attracted to, but at the least we can all recognize that short men are treated unfairly by society and this is reflected in female dating patterns. If we can all admit to that, then we’ve taken the first step in someday levelling the playing field. I think a similar idea applies to race, especially for Asian men and Black women who both seem to have it rough in North America.
As for weight in women, there are a lot of men who will accept or even prefer a few extra pounds (including me). And if you weigh more than that, well, absent a rare medical condition or medication side effect, you can lose it. It will be better for your health anyway! It may be hard work for some, but think about this: if it were possible to gain a few inches of height through hard work and dedication, there would be no short guys anywhere.
One more thing, taller women also have a difficult time, though not quite as bad as short men. Men who refuse to date tall women are guilty of the same prejudice as women who refuse to date short men. But ladies, especially if you are tall, please leave your options open for shorter men. Unless the height difference is so great that it would literally physically awkward to be affectionate, it should not matter what the height difference is, or who is taller, the man or the woman. I’ve had girlfriends that were up to 5’10″ and we had a great time
marymary 711
Jalia
you have done all right for yourself.
of course there are others who do better, esp if by better you just go by quantity. Is someone who dates a hundred people before getting married more successful than someone who dates five? Maybe mr/ms five made better choices? You only need one wife or husband, is it necessary to have a smorgasbord of people to choose from?
A general comment, not aimed at you, some of us could stand to look at ourselves rather than “collecting” numbers of dates, sexual partners or relationships and seeing that as proof of something. It,s front loading our encounters rather than looking to something long lasting. Assuming that,s what we,re looking for. it may not be them ,it might be us ( and I don,t just mean our heights)
i get what you say about presentation. I put a lot of time and effort into exercise, and a healthy diet. Has it helped me to attract someone? Bluntly, yes. Though my main motivation is that it makes me feel good and women have x no. of years to lay down bone mass before old age. It,s not just genetic, I,m fitter than my siblings, who don,t exercise as much and aren’t watching their weight despite my nagging ( diabetes runs in the family). Anyway, I,ve gone off on a tangent.
congrats on your engagement. My brother is short, he,s a darling. The other is nearly six foot and he,s a darling too. Both married now for around ten years after a mere handful of girlfriends each. I,m sure they regret nothing.
Paula 712
I’m 55, caucasian, 5’2″ a few pounds overweight and curvy. I’m newly dating a man who is 64, 5’5″ Pacific Islander, stocky, athletic and balding. Met on-line and we have chemistry off the charts! Too soon to know for sure, but I have a feeling I’m going to have the best sex of my life. He’s got a big heart, warm, caring, good conversationalist, good listener and great kisser (those are skills that anyone can learn). And while I thought my next big love would be younger and taller, I’m no fool.
You might like what you like, but the heart wants what the heart wants. A big hearted man is wonderful at any age, height, race or build. Good to know it’s never too late.
pyra 713
i’m 5’9” and 120-130 lbs, 32, seriously active (rock climbing, ice climbing, marathoner, triathlete, etc) and it is my lifestyle that won’t allow me to date someone who isn’t fit because they love being active. I really want to rock climb, hike, cycle, etc, with my partner, and that simply isn’t possible if they can’t keep up or don’t enjoy it. The height thing does seem to be a subconscious genetic mechanism though. I have dated someone who is an inch shorter than me, but I wasn’t super attracted to him. I know perfectly well it doesn’t matter, but I’ve tried to ignore the initial lack of chemistry and wait until it forms from personality and compatibility…it doesn’t seem to work. I feel for all people who are outside of the average “norms” – but, hey, that includes me. It seems impossible for me to find a guy with whom I have chemistry and compatibility…
LittlePrincess 714
I think this has more to do with passing on “short genes” than we are leading on…
I don’t think there is a mother on earth who would want to read stats like those listed above about her son’s dating profile.
JustMe 715
My ex was 5 feet, 6 inches. I had three kids with him, never once thought “oh! I don’t want a short son”.
Revo Luzione 716
Little Princess,
The bit about the genes is really only about 1/3 true, because height is largely, though not completely determined by prenatal and childhood nutrition. A good example is seen in Asian Americans, who are almost always taller than their home-country counterparts, sometimes substantially so. One or two generations is not enough to impart a genetic shift in height alleles.
Average height in Asia is growing dramatically due to their rapidly westernizing diets.
No, female height preference is like so many other female mate preferences, it’s about status. Height conveys socials status, because diet is a status marker as well.
As it’s said, this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
Kristina 717
I am embarrassed of my fellow females in this. If a man is masculine with other wonderful qualities I would still date him even if he was shorter. It would be very OK. I also wouldn’t feel less female because just because a man is shorter doesn’t mean he isnt’ stronger. I wish people would get a grip.
sophia 718
We all have physical preferences … a man may gravitate towards boobs, legs, whatever … If women prefer height in their man, let it be. There are all sorts of reasons. All valid. None to be taken personally. Someone for everyone ….
Michelle 719
Here is my tip for shorter men. Go for women who are close to your height. You’ll have more luck. If you’re 5 3″, approach women who are 5 3″ or smaller. You might want to avoid investing too much time in ladies that 5 9″. It is unfair that height is such a significant factor. But I think the issue for women isn’t height as much as it is height differential. So don’t loose heart. If your a guy who’s 5 3″ you have a great shot with ladies that are around the same height.
kp 720
Hi Evan and thanks for the very real article. As a past client of yours I am very aware of your hours of questionaires lol. I never was willing to date a shorter man (I am 5’9″). I always felt that the man would feel weird reaching up to kiss me. So I just avoided it. Well just recently I met a great guy, and although Im still feeling self akward, he doesnt seem to mind and he is the best connection I have made in years!! We really hit it off and he is a great man… hot too!! Best of all, I met him while wearing heels… he is 5’7″ but in his mind he is 6’3″. lol. I love his confidence! So, Im going to suck it up with an issue that is clearly on my end and enjoy this fantasic, fun, exciting man… every inch of him!
SingleNSighing 721
I’m female and 5’10″ and I too have the strange feeling like I’m caring for a child when I’m with a shorter guy. But 2″ shorter is no big deal but not shorter than that. If I have to bend over to kiss or hug him, its a deal breaker. I don’t think its the guys’ faults at all. I wish I were shorter so more men would be taller than I. But I have been physically attracted to guys shorter than that…but they didn’t ask me out so I don’t know what it would’ve been like to date them.
Jack 722
Snort. You think this guy Tom has it bad?
Most of my dating problems came from my Asian heritage. I’m 5’7″. My facial features aren’t typically attractive to American women. And I’m definitely not all that well-endowed compared to non-asian guys.
For years, I was completely out of luck in the dating scene. Heck, it was even worse because back then, I was 220 pounds. (I don’t lose fat very much no matter how much I diet or exercise. I do 4 hours of martial arts every single day, and have been dieting since I was a teen).
But hey, I learned to deal (and drop down to a healthier 180 pounds after much hard work). And I did eventually luck out. My lovely wife wasn’t shallow enough to judge me immediately for my appearance and penis size when we were dating, and I love her more everyday for settling with me when she could have gotten so much better.
Horace 723
Hi Michelle 719
I appreciate the fact that you might be honest, trying to be helpful with your suggestion that short guys should stick to equally short women. It may seem practical by your intuition but it’s not a solution that is always viable for short men in the dating world. It is far from accurate actually. I’ll tell you why if you don’t already know.
Short women are notorious for their disdain of short guys. I’m barely 5’6 on my best day and most of the time I AVOID short women because the overwelming majority of them exclusively prefer the guys who stand 6’0 minimum. Her eyes and the look of disgust that goes with hating short guys tells me the story 90% of the time. I’ve been rejected by ladies of all heights and some of the harshest have come from women 2, 3 or 4 inches or more shorter than me. That’s right, the 5’0, 5’1, 5’2 and 5’3 ladies have no use for me most of the time. What I have discovered with age and experience is that a mans height to women generally doesn’t matter after her 3rd or 4th try at marriage. When she’s been through the divorce courts numerous times, all she wants now is a decent man that shares his life with her. I’m not saying short guys should wait in vain for those divorced or separated ladies who have had their kids but it certainly does seem like these women are more opportunistic for short men. In many cases they have no choice because the tall guys don’t want them anymore.
So my advice to the short guys of the world? Approach as many women as possible, even the super tall ladies who tower over you by half a foot or more. Rejection is a lot more common in short guys because many women believe that the rules of Hollywood are the truths of dating. The belief that a woman must never be taller than her man is very real and a commonly practiced prejudice. Don’t just go after the short ladies because society says it looks right. Look past the stupidity that is Hollywood. Go after the women you find attractive and want to date regardless of her height.
FYI, I’ve always had better luck with women my height and taller. I tip my hat all the time to the taller women of the world who don’t need a man equally tall or taller to date. They are rare and very few, but I have faith that more women are shedding the prehistoric traditions for modern common sense. You can’t measure the quality of a person’s heart or character by how tall they stand.
hunter 724
horace,
I agree with you, a woman that has been married 3 times always has company…life has taught her many things….
Horace 725
Yes Hunter,
A woman that has been married 3 or more times has likely accumulated a ton of baggage that no tall guy wants or practically any guy for that matter. More importantly, those marriage values have absolutely no weight or value to her. How could they if she’s repeatedly running back and forth from the courts to the altar? This is the very reason why I’m skeptical of women, dating, relationships, engagement talk, marriage talk etc. etc. etc. People are always getting married for all the wrong reasons which I don’t want to be a part of. It does take two to tango though.
hunter 726
…for some women, gathering wealth is important…(women that had a rough childhood/come from impoverished neighborhoods)…there are women that don’t need that, they mostly, keep a low profile, stay in there own little circles, etc…..
Alex 727
Being a 5’4″ tall man, Strong, Athletic, Successful, Smart, Funny, etc… None of these qualities seem to make any difference at all in the dating world. I’m almost 30, I own two homes, and have a very successful career. I have been single my entire life. The entire height requirement for dating is a load of crap. I am amazed at how shallow the FAIRER Sex can be. Its sad really.
starthrower68 728
Although the exception doesn’t prove the rule, I took a leap of faith and added a 5’6 guy to my faves on POF because he appeared to have other qualities I like. He contacted me and if anything gets off the ground, I’m going for it. If he can overlook me not having perfect measurements, I sure as hell can be forgiving on height.
Amy 729
I don’t see why this whole height thing is such a big deal. Haven’t any of you heard that the best things come in small packages??
Joe 730
The “big deal” is that short people are victims of blatant prejudice and discrimination and nothing is being done about it. That’s the big deal. And short men face even more discrimination than short women. In the dating world women are highly prejudiced against short men, and I’m referring to even short women, who, in large part due to the influence of the major media, want men who are disproportionately taller than either average height or tall women want. Short people are discriminated against in the workplace, locked out of sports, are held back by a REAL glass ceiling, are chosen as targets of social, workplace and street predators, are called names that no recognized group would tolerate, have no recourse legally, and you want to know what the “big deal” is? Do you think a guy can go waltzing around like a little fool spouting, “Oh! Good things come in small packages! Oh! Am I glad I’m short!!!” That may be fine for little girls like you, who will only date 6’11″ men, and they will date you, because it makes them feel “BIG” but let’s get a dose of reality here, shall we?
Kyth 731
So Starthrower, assuming you were of the perfect measurement, you wouldn’t have given him a chance. How myopic of you.
starthrower68 732
Kyth you are assuming and you know what they say about people who assume. You are looking to be offended by reading something into my remark that was not even remotely intended. However it will make your day to learn he rejected me which I no doubt deserve. You’re welcome.
Elizabeth 733
I’ll be completely honest, I’ve never been one to hit on guys I don’t know. First off, I’m not that confident. Second, if I go talk to a guy with the intent to flirt, I stand there gaping like a dying fish. I let the (small number) of guys come to me. If they are taller than I am, that’s a plus. Shorter isn’t a negative though. If I’m interested based on personality, I’ll go for anyone.
However, I do get where other people are coming from as a woman of a larger build that comes at 5’7″. It isn’t the most comfortable thing to be walking next to a man and having their eye level be in my assets. I also have the issue of being very strong; in high school, I was a thrower in track and field, and to this day, weight training is my favorite way to work out. I joke with my friends and say, “My only physical requirement in a man is that if we got into a fist fight, I want to lose. But he’s got to be the type of guy who would never get physical with anyone except out of defense. I’m so damn picky!”
Overall, it is nice when a man doesn’t make me feel like She-Hulk. But that happens with tall, skinny guys too. If the world was perfect, a handsome, smart, caring man who was just tall enough for me to be eye level with when I wear heels would come carry me easily over the threshold. But the world isn’t perfect.
Dianna 734
I love guys my height. If a guy is secure enough in who he is, his height (trust me) has nothing to do with his manliness. I am 5’7″ and love guys under 6′. Why? simple. When you embrace a man the same height as yourself, well, everything just seems to line up, or match, if you know what I mean. And I myself, find that hot. A guy who is confident enough to be out with me when I am in heels, well thats hot too. And who even thinks of height when your snuggled up on the couch or rolling around on the floor? Really, all he has to be is stronger than me, (I’m 127 lbs) so thats usually not an issue…can pick me up (again being thrown over a 5’6″ shoulder is no different than a 6’4″ shoulder except not as far to fall when your laughing so hard you fall off). Guys are humans in the body they get. And if a guy is reasonably confident in who he is, size really does not matter.
Katie 735
I’m a 5’2″ woman and I actually prefer men that are shorter. 5’3″ to 5’6″ is my favorite height range, but I wouldn’t mind someone shorter either. I like guys close to my size because tall guys tend to call me delicate and breakable, which annoys me to no end. Dating shorter men makes it easier to get a good looking one, because less people want to date them, and with both of us being small, we have a lot in common to complain about. Also, hugs are much more personal when your faces are close; I’m sick of being tucked under people’s chins. I’ve actually had tall guys mad at me because I refuse to date them.
hunter 736
Katie,
I have hugged many 4’11” to 5’0” women uncomfortably, I am only 5’10″. I agree with you, sometimes, it seems as if, short, beautiful, available, women, are all our creator made…I think most tall women, stay busy…
Jen X Yoder 737
Re: asian men
Send them to me.
Brandon 738
I can’t believe that this is still going strong.
I was comment 373 and the number of comments are still overwhelmingly about height.
What I want to know about from the author is the incredible generalization of his notion that asian men have trouble dating.
Either everyone is being politically (racially) correct or perhaps that race really has very little to do with dating.
Again, I will say that I am 6’2″, smoking good looking (why be ashamed of it when one really is?), educated and successful.
Because I am Asian, I will have trouble dating regardless of the above?
In case you think I do. I don’t.
Anon Ymous 739
Men from developed countries with a steady meat supply in their diet should not be very short. Being very short in this society is an indication of bad genes. So short women can date short men. I gave short men a chance anyway, even though I am tall. They were always psychologically unhealthy and gave me a creepy vibe. Finally, short men are sexually unattractive in an undeniable way to me. It is not that women need to be protected for actual physical reasons. It is that women want to be protected for sexual, instinctual reasons. Our biology does not change because suburbia was invented 50 years ago. As the article said, fat, ugly, and older women get the short end of the stick, as do shorter man. However, if you are a short woman, then you should not turn down a short man just based on his height. The height difference should be 1-4 inches, not too extreme.
Violet Knight 740
I’m a 5″0 female and I do not care about height in a man. I guess I’m in the minority and my height means pretty much every guy is bigger than me. So to be fair it is a different situation than if I was medium or tall height. I don’t think it’s shallow for women to be attracted to taller men. It may be biological and not from the media. I don’t know. Perhaps I didn’t get enough of the media influence. I don’t think I’m “stronger” as the one commenter said. It came naturally. It’s simply who I’m attracted to. There’s pros and cons to tall or short, they’re both fun to me. I wish I could say that short guys were more awesome in bed, (like the one commentator enthusiastically stated) but that’s a stereotype, people are people. I’m sure the short guys would probably appreciate that stereotype though. The only time I found myself wanting a huge guy was when I lived in a really dangerous neighborhood and I thought it’d be best if I had about 5 huge men (tall and heavy) living with me. But once I moved to a safe neighborhood, I just love whoever I love. Someone said they wanted someone stronger than they were. It doesn’t seem likely to ever happen, but I think it’d be a blast to be stronger. I had a huge (and beautiful) female friend who used to regularly be physically intimidating to guys when they were out of line, and being with her really made me wish I could do that too. She didn’t seem any less feminine for doing that, more like angry amazon woman or Zena the warrior princess.
Sammy 741
Re: Anon Ymous post 739
I suppose one could look at short stature as an indication of bad genes. I would say that people who lack intelligence or those with a predisposition to disease have even worse genes. Yes, I am aware that many women feel the same way about short men, however I do believe that the more intelligent women do not put much emphasis on the importance of height. I think your post showed some real intent to be hurtful and even the implication that shorter women have bad genes is a bit elitist. But hey this is the internet, that’s your opinion and this is mine.
Katie 742
Also, about the Asian men; I personally think a lot of Asian men are really attractive. I don’t see why anyone wouldn’t.
Erik 743
I am a 30 year old guy, 5 foot four, and have always had a little bit of trouble compared with much taller guys when it comes to the ladies but it hasn’t been so bad. If I had been reading this kind of stuff (the comments section here, for instance) since I was in middle school I probably would have grown up depressed and jaded. My only advice to any young guys who may be reading this, don’t read this kind of garbage. It doesn’t help. The people on here couldn’t care less about you personally and are totally irrelevant your future happiness. There are plenty of wonderful women in the real world. Worry about being a good person and meeting a lady you like/love- not what other people think of you and her together.
Nathan 744
I’m Nathan, I’m 5 foot 1.
It’s the biggest problem I’ve had with dating.
Women find me to be charming, funny and great (Their words not mine) But have later go on to confess that my height is such a huge factor they just can’t get over.
Oh the Irony.
As for the Napoleon Complex I’d like to think I don’t suffer from it.
To be honest I can sometimes see it as the idea crafted by the public so they can label the argument we try to make, everything has to have a label these days. So it fits.
I’m happy with who I am as a person and as a man, I haven’t found a woman who sees that regardless of my height, which was actually drastically affected by treatment for a life threatening illness. So to say that you’re afraid that you’re kids may be short as well could be completely unfounded, then again every situation is different.
I will never know exactly how tall I could have been, but if I’d offered 5 foot 5, I would have taken it in a heart beat, because as someone said on here, ” stay within 2 inches of your own height and you’ll be fine” I’m left with five foot 3 or lower. I like small girls, I like tall girls it doesn’t matter as long as they are great people, but I’ve also come into the understanding of how many shorter women love taller men so it’s a bit of short straw no matter how you look at it.
It’s my burden to deal with, it’s the way I am, just like how people are considered less attractive due to nationality, appearance or what they like.
If my height is the worst burden I have to carry in my life, I’d have to say I’m doing pretty well. I’m not physically or mentally disabled and I lead a perfect normal life.
I consider myself lucky, and when I find a girl to fall in love with, she will too
hunter 745
nathan,,
I am 5’10″, and with a shortage of x chromosomed beings…continue the search..the ratio is one out of every ten you meet….
Adriana 746
I am 5′ 7″ and athletic body. I have never had a boyfriend taller than me. I do care more about character and personality than looks. Yes, I know looks is what we check first but actions and attitude is what make an impression to me. If the guy does not care about being taller than me and approaches me , he has a date. In fact my actual boyfriend is about 5′ 3″ so charismatic, lot of personality, and best of all prejudice free.
A 20-Something Girl 747
Well, it’s like what you constantly preach on your blog, Evan. Maybe the short guy needs to lower his search criteria, admit his flaws, and stop looking for the perfect woman. Maybe the few hits on his profile includes older women, or single mothers who are willing to overlook his height for a stable provider. I’m sure the short guys will find someone, once they learn to compromise and be realistic. Just like what you tell the rest of us.
Renato 748
All i read is about:
1.- I want wear high heels.
2.- I never get over my electra complex, i wanna be hug by daddy, like when i was a little girl.
BP 749
“Well, it’s like what you constantly preach on your blog, Evan. Maybe the short guy needs to lower his search criteria, admit his flaws, and stop looking for the perfect woman. Maybe the few hits on his profile includes older women, or single mothers who are willing to overlook his height for a stable provider. I’m sure the short guys will find someone, once they learn to compromise and be realistic. Just like what you tell the rest of us.”
So wait, a 20-something short man with no kids, in shape, and college educated should include single moms and older women. I do not see his female counterparts doing this…
BP 750
@Violet Knight,
So what happens when you meet a guy who is 4’10. Just TELL THE TRUTH: What you really mean to say is that the guy be “short but still taller than you”…
BP 751
@Katie,
What you mean to say is “short but still taller than me”, that sh*t again…
BP 752
@Michelle, comment 719,
No, that will not increase their chances, do the real math…
Julie 753
Paul had me at: “Dominant can be fun in bed.” Hey, being honest here. I’m 5’2″, 46, and currently weigh about 180 (wow, painful honesty there—that is not a minimizing lie; when I’m working out and eating right, I weigh less, but sometimes I slip and have to pick myself back up and get back to a fit lifestyle).
If I tell you only my good points, I look like a great date and a terrific woman. And I am. But if you look at my straight statistical profile, out of context, you’re going to see a couple of traditional deal-breakers.
Context is everything. And that’s something I’ve learned from working hard to mitigate my own on-paper deal-breakers. I’ve learned to defer judgment on other people’s potential deal-breakers until I have some context to put that in.
I think short guys, like anyone else with one of the classic dating “issues,” need to open up and defer judgement on dates who may have an issue on paper. I’m not saying you should “settle.”
I’m saying if you (for example) don’t like fat chicks, and a potential date is overweight, it still might be worth a couple of dates to find out if overweight is a constant problem in her history or if she has usually taken care of herself and has re-adopted good lifestyle habits. You might find a partner who struggles and sometimes slips but whose attitude towards taking care of herself is what you want, and who is usually within your comfort zone.
If a woman is losing the weight, once she’s taken it off, a lot of guys are going to want to date her. If she’s losing the weight and isn’t the type to stop working when she gets a relationship, if her history is that this lifestyle effort isn’t temporary, then you may have a window to snap her up before some other guy gets there.
I’d take the same attitude towards a guy who has had a financial reverse. There are a lot of people with good financial and job habits out there who are hurting at the moment. Their history and habits are more together than their present state. When he gets it back together, there’s going to be a lot of competition for him. Right now? Window of opportunity if I take the time to learn the context before judging.
My advice would be to date the girls who are responding to your profile and recognize that they will probably have deal-breakers. Take time to find out if the deal-breaker is improved by context. Most won’t be; most will be true deal-breakers. But ultimately, you only need one diamond.
A lot of short guys have developed un-lovely personality scars in response to the way the world treats short men. The nasty personality scars would be a reasonable deal-breaker for a non-shallow woman. Women aren’t being totally irrational in declining to date very short men. But they are jumping to conclusions without learning the context, and that context could be that the guy really is a great partner.
So I encourage you not to “settle” in a mate, but to “settle” in a date–at least long enough to find out the context.
Andrea 754
I’ve recently dated a slightly shorter man. I really didn’t care, except I couldn’t get over the fact that he had clearly lied about his height and weight in his profile. If he had been honest I still would have gone on the date, but unfortunately this mild deception put me off. I guess you either risk less interest, but at least people women who are genuinely into you, or you inflate your stats and hope there’s some good ones in the mix when they realise you’ve told a white lie. X
Anon S 755
I’m male, and am somewhere between 5’4 and 5’5 in height. I’ve used both Match.com and Okcupid. I have between a 50%-60% response rate on messages I send, and most of my best dates are with girls who chose to contact me. I am successful, but not wealthy. I’m somewhat socially awkward but quite smart. Interpret that as you may.
I actually read this stupid dispiriting article before I made an account and tried to date. My experience: The above might be true with all else being equal, but I think if you have something to bring to the table, and you don’t get self conscious about your height, then you’ll be fine.
Katie 756
@BP
I wouldn’t mind dating a guy shorter than me as long as he was of appropriate age and fairly attractive, but the fact is I’ve never actually met a guy shorter than me who was anywhere near my age.