12 Rules To Keep A Man

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Saw this video on a friend’s Facebook page and wanted to share it with you.

It made me think two things:

1) While we can quibble with the messenger, the message is pretty spot on. Much of it – apart from the appearance stuff – can be read in Why He Disappeared, in fact.

2) I should start making YouTube videos that get 100,000 hits.

What do you think of this guy’s “rules” and are there any with which you disagree?

(By the way, comments that list the equivalent rules for men and what’s wrong with men will be summarily deleted. That’s not the point of this post. –The Management)

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Maeve

    Doris @21–Exactly!
    The pornification of regular sex bugs me to no end. I am not a porn star, I don’t want to be a porn star and I’m not going to pretend to be a porn star.
     
    I think maybe this guy has a problem with his girl picker. Lots of girls are shy/quiet and don’t talk a guy’s ear off (as a girl I can state that it’s equally annoying when the guy won’t stop talking). And girls aren’t the only ones who “pop up.” A guy I’ve recently started dating showed up at my house unexpectedly three times this weekend.

  2. 32
    Nicole

    I’m not sure that being open sexually means that you have to be like a porn star.  But I also think he could be referring to people who won’t do anything beyond plain old missionary.  I mean, he referred to nasty stuff in his video, but there are plenty of people who won’t go beyond missionary style in the bedroom either.  I’ve been shocked by what male friends say they get shot down for requesting…and I’m no wild child. 

    I think that there are a lot of ways to fulfill a man’s fantasies that don’t involve playing a porn star.   Why does everyone’s mind go to the worst possible scenario, or worse yet, perhaps something so heinous that they don’t even really know what it might be, yet are sure that it would be porn-like and degrading? 

    Maybe a man can chime in but I think you guys are assuming that men want sick things when they say be “open,” and that’s not what I assume at all.

    This guy reminds me of Joe Torre… 

    Clearly some of the stuff, like body hair, is a personal preference, but if you’ve ever lived in a college dorm with roommates or a shared bathroom, you’d know that some people, male and female, are “hygenically” challenged in a way that defies reason, so it’s not bad advice. Again, talk to men about the horrors of being with a woman who just isn’t clean…

  3. 33
    Maeve

    Nicole, if you read the comment I’m responding to, it was about shaving; and in the video he clearly and explicitly said that hygeine=shaving your pubic hair.
     
    This expectation–that a well-groomed woman is nearly hairless everywhere–is well-documented to have come from the popularization of porn following its free availability online. It didn’t come from Venus or Saturn or the ether. Rather, the common availability of images of “hot” women who removed their hair taught (particularly young) men that this was COMMON, when it wasn’t, and they then brought that expectation to their relationships, where girls desperate to “keep their man” complied. If you want to see one accessible example of this kind of research, see “Pornland”:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/31731972/An-excerpt-from-Pornland-How-Porn-has-Hijacked-our-Sexuality-by-Gail-Dines
     
    all the Ps have been stripped out so it’s a trick to read but it’ll give you the general gist.
     
    So when I say I’m not going to pretend to be a porn star, that’s what I’m referring to. Why would you assume it had anything to do with the openness thing? I hadn’t even brought that up.

  4. 34
    sharon

    The sex advice is dicey. Men have that madonna / whore complex. If you’re the doing the nasty, you’re probably not the girl he wants to bring home to mom. As a bottom heavy lady I’m constantly harassed for anal sex. (The begging, bardering, and “accidental” slips.) As I’m sure many of you have also gone through. I no big moral issue against. It’s just not pleasurable. And the threesome issue. What man doesn’t ask for a threesome at some point in the relationship? I know there are some men out there with more conventional interests but given the fast majority of under 40’s have some high expectations how can you find a compromise?

  5. 35
    Ames

    Great message! Most of these things are easy to do and cost nothing. Women are used to being complimented ALL THE TIME. Men are really taken aback and pleased to be complimented (unless he’s the 10 guy who’s had his tail kissed all his life–in that case he’s probably high maintenance.)

    The hardest item on this list to maintain is weight. I work 65 hours a week on my feet and that’s when the weight came on. But being groomed, made up and smelling great should be something people do anyway! Who wants to be sloppy?

    It took me a long time to learn guys don’t talk like girls. I save the long soul searching chats for girlfriends and give the guys bullet points. He hears what I have to say and I get the important points in.

  6. 36
    mslove

    The ones that do not agree with this video will not keep a man. PERIOD. 
    He simplified a couple of rules with humor.
    Like he said, men are afraid to be honest because of what is going on now. Some of you are critisizing what a man wants.  
    He said stay groomed and hygentic down there.
    He said be spontaneous and open sexually. Go read some magazines.
    I talk to men all the time and they say they want a woman in the streets and a FREAK in the sheets.
    And any man that is successful and a quality man has MANY options.
    You do not have to do anything, but someone else will.

    This man is telling the truth. I had to google some sexual things to keep things interesting with my man. And it worked.

    Do you want to be cheated on?

  7. 37
    starthrower68

    @ Nichole #32,

    If you’ve looked at some of the on-line stuff recently, you’ll know why women are quick to think worst case scenario when it comes to being sexually “open”.   I agree with you, something other than the missionary position, no big deal.  When a guy starts getting into the territory of three or more-somes, whips, chains, handcuffs, etc, or any other wierd stuff you can come up with, that’s over the top.  Obviously, if a woman is into all of that, then more power to her.  I also had a couple of guys insist on talking about how they shaved their nether regions.  When I’m just getting to know you, that is TMI. 

  8. 38
    Karl R

    There seem to be a few places where people are disagreeing.

    Rule #10: Be sexually open
    I’d say you’re being sexually open if you’re willing to try new and different things. I don’t expect anyone to enjoy every possible thing they try.

    To give an analogy that may be easier to connect with, let’s say you’ve cooked a new recipe. What is your opinion of someone who says, “That sounds disgusting; there’s no way I’m trying that.” You would have a much different opinion of someone who at least tried it and then decided they didn’t like it. Even if they told you, “I tried that before and I really didn’t like it,” it still would indicate that they were open-minded about trying new things.

    Several months ago, my fiancée and I ended up with a bunch of sex toys as part of a gag. (A gag is a type of joke, for those of you not familiar with the term.) While we wouldn’t have considered buying most of them for personal use, we decided to try each of them, one at a time, the next several times we had sex.

    We expected that some might be physically uncomfortable. Others were certainly going to take us outside of our mental comfort zone. But we tried them all. For over half, our criticism was, “It’s really not doing that much for me.” Our favorite ended up being one that we both expected to be physically uncomfortable.

    While I’m not going to suggest that you ought to continue doing something that you find uncomfortable, you might want to consider doing something that’s slightly uncomfortable if it works exceptionally well for your partner.

    As an example of that, a lot of my sex partners have greatly enjoyed having oral sex performed upon them. If a woman doesn’t shave/trim/wax, I will end up with loose hairs in my mouth before I’m finished. (It’s not my favorite sensation.) If the woman trims, I’ll end up getting “stubble-burn” around my mouth. (Again, uncomfortable.) But for a lot of partners, it’s the difference between her having an orgasm or not.

    If the man is regularly doing something that he finds mildly uncomfortable because you enjoy it, how do you think it comes across if you absolutely refuse to do anything you find uncomfortable for his benefit?

    As for moral issues, the bible and Torah are explicit about whom you have sex with … not how you have sex.

    I’m not seeing the correlation between porn and trying new things. Porn is created to be stimulating to a third party who is visually observing … regardless of how ineffective/uncomfortable it feels for the actual participants. In real life, you want to try things that feel good for one or both of you … regardless of how visually uninteresting they might appear.

    But if you’re going to avoid stuff that feels good (in favor of old-fashioned sex) just because it’s “like porn,” to me that smacks of elitist snobbery.

    Rule #7: Stay fresh
    Shaving preferences tend to be culturally based. Either way, you’ll be ruling out some men. If you rule out too many, you’re going to have a harder time dating.

    Rule #9: Don’t talk him to death
    I’ve been friends with a number of shy people. Most of them were quiet until they got to know someone, then they were just as talkative as anyone else. (The exceptions are a minority.)

    If you’re the only person contributing to a “conversation,” then it’s not actually a conversation. You can recognize it when you see it happening with two strangers. The same applies when you’re the one talking. Learn to recognize it then, too.

    This isn’t a matter of him choosing the wrong woman. Nobody likes being talked at for long periods of time.

    Overall
    Yes, most of these rules apply to men too. He acknowledged that with several of them. If you’re focused on how men need to do this too, you’re not focused on how they apply to you.

  9. 39
    starthrower68

    @Karl #38,

    It smacks of elitist snobbery to you because you disagree with that person’s likes and dislikes.  If it’s not fair to consider a man a perverted freak because of his likes and dislikes, then it’s not fair to consider a woman an elitist snob because of her likes and dislikes.  But that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.  And it also depends on how much you want that man in your life as to what you are willing to do or not do.

  10. 40
    Gem

    Starthrower, #38

    “And it also depends on how much you want that man in your life as to what you are willing to do or not do.”

    That’s the whole point. The title is “12 Rules to Keep a Man. If you’re not that into him, you’re not going to care to keep him. I think the basic rule to “be open sexually” is a great one. Men and Women need to be open to what their partner may want to try and Karl is suggesting that it may not be the most scary, crazy thing you can think of, but maybe just something different or out of your comfort zone. Being open to at least TRY something may be a pleasant suprise.
    I asked my last boyfriend if he had any fantasies that he wanted to try. He got all sheepish and I thought he was going to suggest something REALLY freaky. He ended up saying he wanted us to have sex outside, on his seadoo the next time we were on the lake.
    He was sheepish because he wasn’t sure how I’d react or if I’d be open to it since we’d never discussed fantasies before. I said, “Hell to the Yeah!” Nothing porn-ish or freaked out, just something new and different and a little risky of being seen. But it was great fun. I’m glad I had asked him and was open to fulfill that for him/us.

     

  11. 41
    Nicole

    Actually, I think that the full wax job (Brazilian) caught on when  a lot of celebrities started talking about it publicly.  People tried in on vacation in Brazil, and then in spas that did it, which were rare at one point.  As someone mentioned, opinions about that are culturally based.  So not EVERYONE finds that look appealing.   If you’ve seen the swimsuits in Brazil, then you’ll know why it’s just easier to take it all off.  And I wouldn’t equate an entire country’s aesthetic preferences with porn.

    I don’t think that many women are doing it to look like porn stars, since we are not the primary consumers of porn (yes, women use porn but it’s not a 50:50 split).  

    I personally don’t know anyone who started getting Brazilians because a man requested it.  A lot of younger women always kept things groomed b/c of swimsuits, and then as Brazilians became available and popular, a lot more people tried it.  And once they tried it, they liked the way it looks and felt and kept it up. 

    I’d say a lot of 20 something and younger men are seeing it as the norm b/c their girlfriends all have that particular waxing habit, but I don’t think the girls are doing it initially because a guy prefers it.  Some men don’t like it because of the whole prepubescent angle. 

    I didn’t say that it was a hygiene issue but both men and women complain of the difficulty of properly drying up down there, which CAN become an issue, and I’ve heard hilarious and disturbing stories from what a lot of men do with shared hair dryers in gym locker rooms.   

    Also, that guy didn’t specify what groomed meant.  It could mean trimmed, it could mean clean, it could men partially or fully waxed. You don’t know what he meant and I don’t either, but we’re BOTH projecting our views of how extreme the advice was.

    Perhaps the issue here is that once again, these rules are being taken to the level of extreme hyperbole, because I don’t think being sexually open has to mean threesomes and painful practices either.   Not for someone that a man is planning to marry you at least.  There is a lot in between and I think that a man that care about you is not going to ask you to do degrading things.   

  12. 42
    Born Again Virgin

    This is my first comment, and at 55 yrs old, I’m in the process of divorcing my gay husband.  Try spending 11 years (my last 11) living celibate and wondering what the hell was wrong with me, and I was pretty willing to do anything.  Try having your guy flinch or leap out of bed.  Pretty demoralizing.

    Well, I had an affair last fall (with my first straight guy), and the first thing I told him after we slept together was that I’d never tell him “no”.  I’d never be too tired, too busy, have a headache, be not in the mood.  I have been living a freaking drought, and if a guy wants something I haven’t done, I’ll be quite willing to give a try.  There are limits of what I’d try, but I won’t be squeamish for sure

    Yes, I’m guilty of talking too much.  I was told that by the straight guy.  But, being married to a closeted gay man, you realize they talk like your women friends.  It will be hard for me to get used to that one — talking too much.  I’m not sure how to go about having a normal conversation, as that guy was my only experience. 

    As far as trying 3-somes?  Um, no.  I’ve lived gay, and I ain’t going there.  If a guy wanted to bring (a) a guy or (b) a woman in, I’d run like my hair was on fire.  I would question very seriously any man who wants to see you get it on with another woman.  Talk to some of my support group men about their wives running off with other women, and you’ll understand. 

    Frankly, I thoroughly enjoyed what he said.  I use the “f” word a lot more than I ever did, but with living through my marriage, I think I earned that right.

  13. 43
    Karl R

    starthrower68 said: (#39)
    “It smacks of elitist snobbery to you because you disagree with that person’s likes and dislikes.”

    Have you actually tried the things you mentioned (“three or more-somes, whips, chains, handcuffs, etc, or any other wierd stuff you can come up with”)? If not, how can you characterize them as your likes and dislikes?

    The snobbery is from broadly characterizing those things as coming from porn, and then avoiding them because of that association. This has nothing to do with fair or unfair. When it comes to dating, I don’t consider “fair/unfair” to be relevant terms.

    In fact, all of the things you mentioned predate the internet, videos and glossy photographs in magazines. I quickly thumbed through one of my fiancée’s books (erotic art of China, Japan, India and Nepal). About 1/3 of the paintings were of three or more-somes. A number of the Japanese paintings involved bondage. The Indian and Nepalese paintings clearly included inspiration from the kama sutra (sex while holding yoga poses) and also included heavy use of intoxicants and some “weird stuff” (like the couple facing each other while seated on two swings suspended from the ceiling).

    sharon said: (#34)
    “Men have that madonna / whore complex. If you’re the doing the nasty, you’re probably not the girl he wants to bring home to mom.”

    That’s a myth. We want a lady in public and a freak in the bed. For example, when we bring you home to mom, we don’t want you telling her about how we’re doing the nasty.

    sharon asked: (#34)
    “And the threesome issue. What man doesn’t ask for a threesome at some point in the relationship?”

    According to my fiancée, she’s never been directly asked about having a threesome. Though she did encounter a bit of innuendo when she was younger.

    sharon asked: (#34)
    “given the fast majority of under 40′s have some high expectations how can you find a compromise?”

    When you’re drawing a boundary, make certain that your position is more reasonable than his. He wants a threesome? Tell him that you’ll consider bringing home another man and try it with the two of them at once.

    If you tried something before and didn’t enjoy it, it’s reasonable to say that you won’t enjoy it any more with the next man. Instead, suggest things that you both might enjoy. That’s a reasonable compromise.

  14. 44
    Margo

    @karl, I don’t like anal sex. I’ve tried to a point that it didn’t feel comfortable and I asked the person to stop. It isn’t clean either. The part of the anatomy that the man wants to penetrate isn’t designed for penetration. I KNOW that a lot of men want this-don’t you dare deny it men!-but I’m not comfortable with it, so I’m not doing it.

    So, would that make me an elitist snob? I’m sure it feels good, but like posted above, there are reasons I refuse to engage in it.

    Maybe it’s good for animals, but it isn’t good for humans-except to satisfy a man’s lust…Unnatural lust, at that. Men want it, but only a child doesn’t know that one cannot always have what one wants.

  15. 45
    Margo

    Tina Carlson, unless you reside at a country club, these days you’re going to hear that type of language used sometimes.

    One of my friends just gave me advice on someone I’m dating. Essentially, he chastised me and the guy for sleeping in the guy’s bed when we both made a stance against sex this early on. My friends rebuke was as follows: “You both said you weren’t going to have sex, then you “motherfuckers” got into his bed!”

    I considered the language vulgar. I would have preferred not to hear it, However, he did make his point.

  16. 46
    Deanna McNeil

    Great post, thought the advice was practical. Can’t wait to see you on YouTube :)

  17. 47
    Sherell

    Good lord folks its hyperbole and not to be taken literally.  Sheesh!!!!!!

  18. 48
    Shouraku

    I actually agree with both Karl @38 and Margo @44.
     
    Really, I see two related but different points being discussed. Sort of the difference between saying “How do you know that you don’t like ice cream if you have never tried it?” and “How do you know that you don’t like having someone throw a rock at your head if you have never tried it?”.
     
    Personally, if my partner asks me to preform a sexual act with him that: I do not have a moral stance against, I know would not damage my body, and does not disgust me, then it falls into the “try the ice cream” category with me. Sure I’ll try it, the worst that can happen is that I discover something that I don’t enjoy, and even that is a valuable learning experience.
     
    However, there are specific acts that fall into the “rock to the head” category. I don’t have first had experience, but my preferences and general life knowledge suggest to me that they are not something that I want to try.
     
    Threesomes might be amazing. They may totally change my life and bring me pleasure that I never knew possible. I have no way of knowing as I have never tried it. However, my other knowledge and experience suggests to me that a threesome could possibly introduce interpersonal elements that could damage my relationship, and I have yet to be in a relationship where I felt that it could be done with minimal risk of side effects (though I fully acknowledge that it would depend on the people involved). I might be completely wrong, but I also don’t want to take the risk to find out. That is my personal boundary.
     
    If someone gave me a bag of harmless sex toys (Karl), sure I would give them a shot. If someone asked me to preform something that I believed to be unclean or physically damaging (Margo) then I would feel justified enough to politely turn them down.

  19. 49
    Nicole

    Actually Margo, no one suggested that you do something that wasn’t comfortable.  Karl’s comment didn’t suggest that, and we don’t know how if the man on the video meant that a woman should do anything no matter wihat either.
    However, what is pretty clear on this blog is that the advice is never meant to be taken to extremes.  Being easygoing doesn’t mean that you let someone cheat on you or disrespect you.  Being patient doesnt’ meant that you date someone for 5 years without knowing what the relationship is a about.  And being open about sex does not mean letting your boyfriend force you into gangbangs or orgies or things that you find uncomfortable.
    You mentioned that you tried it, and you didn’t like it, and anyone who loves and cares about you should appreciate the effort.  But some people will try that and like it and continue.  You aren’t suggesting that your likes and dislikes are universal for everyone.
    Clearly, if you have certain boundaries, you shouldn’t cross them and you should find someone who doesn’t need to cross them.  But the basic point that you shouldn’t dismiss something or insist that you don’t like it until you try it is completely sound.  And I don’t see how you can deny that. Take sex out of the equation.  It just sounds very provincial and backwards to say, for example, I hate Indian food, if you’ve never even HAD Indian food.  And you would truly have to taste 100’s of different things for that statement to really be accurate.  
    I think that is the same point here.
    And for what it’s worth, I think a lot of people find “regular” sex to be uncomfortable at first, or sex with a new person to be the same.  Yet they keep on doing it…

  20. 50
    Leslie

    Even given that this is a dating blog for women, I’m getting the sense that there is too much focus here on keeping the guy. All of these rules, like being sexual open and so on… ladies, if you really like the guy, you’ll act that way naturally! You’ll want to be open to him. And if you don’t, then you won’t. Although honestly, a guy that is always asking for three-somes and chains and so on – that’s just not the type of guy I can see myself longterm building a family with. The focus would be on not finding rules to keep him – it would be realizing that he’s the wrong guy and finding one who’s expectation are more in line with my personality and finding a compromise that both parties are okay with.
    But if he REALLY likes you, the extra things that make you feel uncomfortable won’t become a deal-breaker. I think that most mature adults realize that there is fantasy and reality, and that some of the fantasies come true but most don’t, and it’s not a deal breaker. I have a fantasy of a guy who bring me fresh flowers every week, but I know that this is completely unrealistic, and don’t make this an expectation in my relationship. I value him as a person overall, not a florist. Likewise, my boyfriend has some anal fantasies, but those are not going to happen. He realizes that I’m very open to him, I respect him and if I’m not into it, there must be good reason. If he breaks up with me because of that one thing, well, I’d wager to say he was never that into me anyway, more into having sex with someone or very immature in his perception of fantasy v. reality.
    As for the shaving/waxing expectations – while its important to not look like you’ve lived in the wilderness for the past 6 months, I’ve found that most guys will state their preferences. Some guys said they want it all gone, although not all care.

  21. 51
    Christie Hartman

    I’m always nervous when some guy wants to give women dating advice, thinking that being male makes him an automatic expert. Most of the time the advice is stupid and more about what HE wants, rather than what MEN want. But this guy did a decent job. And I did laugh my ass off! :)

  22. 52
    Helen

    These are 12 good points, but for me, they got somewhat lost behind all the unnecessary swearing. Maybe some people found that funny – I found it an annoyance and was cringing at when he was going to say his next F word (which was always within the next 5 seconds). I personally couldn’t stand to spend much time around someone who couldn’t speak for 1 straight minute without swearing.
     
    About the points themselves, however: they were generally good, and apply equally to men and women. I liked his straightforward first point about how we should get our advice from the target group (in this case, women getting advice from men rather than from single girlfriends). I also liked the point about how it is okay to have spaces of silence; no need to fill them continually with talking.

  23. 53
    Margo

    Actually, Nicole, the basic point that I shouldn’t dismiss something or insist that I don’t like it until I’ve tried it is NOT sound. If I have knowledge of what is involved in or what a certain act place or thing entails, then I can make an informed decision based on whether or not I would like it.

    With anal sex, although I might like some part of it, I have enough evidence/knowledge to know that I wouldn’t like the act as a whole. That awareness is enough to prevent me from wanting to engage in it.

    It works the same way with other unorthodox practices. Say, for instance, if your bf asked you to lick their unclean feet after they had just jumped in a puddle of mud. Would you try that to see if you liked it?? Personally I wouldn’t need to try that; I already know I wouldn’t like it.

  24. 54
    starthrower68

    @ Karl #43,

    “Have you actually ever tried the things you mentioned (“three or moresomes, whips, chains, handcuffs, etc, or any other wierd stuff you can come up with”)? If not, how can you characterize them as your likes and dislikes?”

    Karl, seriously?  You’re really asking me that?  I’ve never made a thousand cuts on my body with a razor and jumped into a pool of rubbing alcohol either but I’m pretty sure I know myself well enough to know I will not be into that.  I might not be an expert in your likes and dislikes, but I’m pretty sure I know mine.  There are somethings I’m not going to do and I can live with the consequences of that.

  25. 55
    Margo

    I agree with Starthrower. I know a woman that sexually does everything her husband wants to the point that she may as well be a porn star. He is constantly asking her to do threesomes and whatever desires he has at any given time. The sad thing is she is doing this to try and keep him.

    I too want to please my man, and I’m a yes woman with men I love, but there has to be a line. Without it, the woman or man becomes a doormat devoid of dignity.

    If your significant other is unselfish and loves you, he will not badger you into doing sexual acts that you find uncomfortable and know yourself enough to know that you don’t even want to try them. There is enough pleasure in regular and oral sex with all the different positions, locations, twists, etc. available that the considerate man should be able to get his needs met.

  26. 56
    Nicole

    @Margo,
    Again, you and Starthrower going to extremes as a way to refute what is an otherwise reasonable point.  Taking the worst case scenario doesn’t refute the statement that you can’t rule out some things without trying them. And it doesn’t suggest that you need to try everything before you rule them out either.  I think #48, Shouraku, summed it up nicely.

    There are things that you don’t have to try to know that you’ll hate (loved the example of getting rocks thrown at the head).  There are things that are in between, that you MIGHT like but that might take getting used to. And there are things that you haven’t tried and are pretty innocuous and trying them won’t cause any harm.

    Hey, I’ll try most kinds of food but there are some things that I have no desire to taste (certain animal organs for example).  Dog meat is enjoyed in parts of Asia, but I have no desire to try it.  And yet I’m still able to admit that in general, it’s better to be open about things.  See how simple that is?

    But that fact that it sounds gross to me doesn’t take away from the fact that many people enjoy, some people will try it and find that it’s not terrible, some people will try it and like it, and WITHIN REASON, there are things in life that you can’t absolutely dismiss without trying (and let’s leave sex out of it because you and Starthrower keep going to the worst possible things that a man could ask you to do sexually).

    I NEVER suggested that this wasn’t true.  You and Starthrower keep going with the hyperbole again.   

    And really, this all started with how we all interpreted the comment of being sexually open AND how we interpreted being groomed.  You went to porn and Brazilians, and I heard being a little creative and staying neat and smelling good.  Just as we all interpreted those statements in a different way, the way that each man means them is also different.  So you might have met the guy who wanted to do something really extreme, but there are guys who just want to go outdoors, or try toys, or something much simpler.   And some men really are creeped out by the no hair thing…

  27. 57
    Karl R

    Margo asked: (#53)
    “if your bf asked you to lick their unclean feet after they had just jumped in a puddle of mud. Would you try that to see if you liked it??”

    It’s reasonable to refuse to do something that’s unhealthy, at least until the health risks have been countered/mitigated.

    For example, my fiancée and I both prefer to have sex without a condom, but when we started dating, we practiced safe sex for months. When we both got the results of our STD tests, we stopped using condoms. At that point, we had countered/mitigated the risk in another way.

    If someone can’t comprehend the difference between being “sexually open” and being “a reckless idiot,” I’m perfectly happy to let Darwinism be their training tool.

    starthrower68 said: (#54)
    “I’ve never made a thousand cuts on my body with a razor and jumped into a pool of rubbing alcohol either”

    You’ve never cut yourself with a razor while shaving? You’ve never treated a cut with rubbing alcohol?

    Your example takes two things you’ve already tried and didn’t like, and extrapolates them 1,000 times.

    Do you really expect people to take your point seriously if you can’t even express the concept of something you haven’t tried?

    And ignoring the health arguement that I made above, if you were considering giving yourself 1,000 cuts with a razor and jumping into a pool of rubbing alcohol, I’d recommend giving yourself one small cut with a safety razor and treating it with rubbing alcohol … just to test it on a small scale first.

    starthrower68 said: (#54)
    “I might not be an expert in your likes and dislikes, but I’m pretty sure I know mine.”

    Have you ever tried pahlenka? If not, do you like it? Have you ever tried saag ghosht? If not, do you like it?

    Nicole’s example (#49) of Indian food is appropriate. Over half the food looked disgusting to me (like it had been excreted out one orifice or another). When I sampled everything, I discovered that the most revolting looking food was the best tasting food.

    Margo said: (#55)
    “there has to be a line.”

    There is a reasonable line. And the key word in that is “reason.” I don’t want to engage in a threesome with my exclusive partner, because at that point it’s no longer exclusive.

    I don’t want to try erotic asphyxia because it’s incredibly risky.

    I don’t want to try anal sex (even if we counter/mitigate the unsanitary issues) because I didn’t like it when I tried it before with another partner.

    I don’t want to toss my fiancée’s salad because I don’t like the way shit smells. Since taste is based 85% upon the sense of smell, I can reasonably extrapolate that licking her anus is going to taste terrible. (And it’s incredibly unsanitary.)

    If I’m going to try something that’s undignified, it’s reasonable for my partner to try it too.

    If I’m going to try bondage with someone, it’s going to have to wait until I trust them enough.

    I just listed six boundaries that are perfectly reasonable.
    1. It violates a moral/relationship/ethical boundary.
    2. Too much risk.
    3. Already tried it and didn’t like it.
    4. Reasonable extrapolation from something I don’t like.
    5. Partner unwilling to reciprocate.
    6. Insufficient trust.

    And in many of those cases, there’s a work-around if the reason is addressed. If I was in a non-exclusive relationship, I would be willing to try a threesome (under certain circumstances). If she loves anal sex, we can insert a toy back there (and clean it thoroughly afterward). If she wants me to try something undignified, she can try it first. And I’m perfectly willing to try bondage with someone I don’t trust if she’s the one being tied up, or we can wait until trust has been established.

    If you have reasons for your boundaries, you can find reasonable compromises that don’t violate them.

  28. 58
    Leslie

    Karl,
    No one should have to do something that they don’t want to do to ‘keep’ a man, or a woman for that matter. Yes, some people are more open and adventurous than others. Other people are not. This is just a fact of life. There’s no point in trying to convince me or someone else to be more adventurous if we don’t want to be – maybe we’re not the right girl for YOU, but for somebody else, we probably are. I for example, am not particularly attracted to very sexually adventurous men. If you bring out a toy, whip, chain, prop or anything man made other than protection into the bedroom, I will be out of there. So perhaps, you or the guy in this video wouldn’t be attracted to me in that case, but there’s no point in trying to figure out how to keep this type of guy, because I don’t want him or be very sexually attracted to him anyway. And frankly, if a guy didn’t want to be with me because I feel that man-made materials should not be brought into the bedroom, well, he’s probably not the right guy for me anyway nor should I worry about keeping him.
    I think the be more open advice is useful for women who are very frigid, afraid to do it in anything more than missionary position and undress in front of their significant other with the lights on. If that doesn’t apply to you, I think you are okay. Sex should never be used to try to keep a man – it doesn’t work.

  29. 59
    starthrower68

    @ Nicole #56,

    While I can’t speak for Margo, there are things I could be willing to try, but since it’s nobody’s business what those things are, I do not feel compelled to make a list.  Secondly, I used hyperbole because most of us will take it as a given here that not everything is unreasonable or unacceptable to try and what some will be okay with, others will not.  Also, anybody can rule out anything they want to whether they’ve tried it or not.  Your cost-benefit ratio analysis may vary from theirs.

    @ Karl, #57,

    Karl, I know you think I’m being difficult and closed-minded but I like the snappy banter and lively debate.  You help me keep the skills sharp.  Where you and I part company is that one person’s set of criteria isn’t going to be the same as yours.  For example, you listed 6 boundaries that you believe are acceptable.  Ok, great it works for you.  Someone else may have an entirely different set from yours.  Doesn’t make them bad or wrong, just different.   

  30. 60
    Margo

    Karl, I believe I can comprehend the difference between being sexually open and a reckless idiot. Thanks.

    There are some men who like to justify their unorthodox sexual urges using the reasoning that being “sexually open” is a positive concept, and generally it is. However it ceases to be positive when a man uses the concept as a tool to satisfy his lust regardless of a woman’s feelings and concerns.

    Once again, we will use “anal sex” as an example. The practice is so common that most men will levy accusations of being sexually closed-minded to any woman that doesn’t want to participate in it. It is an unclean practice, you are aware of that as evidenced by your statments of how anal secretions smell and the fact that you would need to clean any toy well that is used in the anus.

    By your statement that you would, “mitigate the health risks”, you have declared the practice unclean yourself.

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