How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested in Me?

Evan Marc Katz

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I haven’t found a solution for this. How does a 56 year old man find a good younger woman that would be interested in marriage and willing to have children by him? She would need to be 36 to 38. Most good sites line me up with the 50 year olds and most 36 year olds tend to think I’m a dirty old man.  I know that such a person exists but can’t find a good avenue to find her. I am fairly well to do and well educated.

Dale

Thank you, Dale, for acknowledging a few very common truths from the world of online dating.

You’re a successful older man who wants to date a woman significantly younger than him.

Websites generally attempt to pair singles with matches who are demographically similar.

Most 36-year-old women think you’re a dirty old man.

Now you’re going to get the same song and dance as every other guy who has written to complain about women on the Internet. I’m going to put you in HER shoes.

So let’s say you’re a 36-year-old woman, entering the prime of your life. You’re done with the bar scene and you’re very much interested in settling down to have a family of your own. How do you set your search criteria? Well, if you’re born in 1971, you’re part of Generation X. You went to high school in the 80’s. Your friends are buying their first houses and having their first kids. You probably want something that looks similar. So you search for men 35-45. Yeah, 45 is a little old, you say, but you want to be open-minded. Maybe he’ll still be vigorous enough to keep up with your active lifestyle.

And then you, the 36-year-old woman, post your profile, and what happens? You get BOMBARDED by emails from fifty and sixtysomething Baby Boomers looking to trade up in the world. You double check your profile to see if there’s something you wrote that’s attracting these older men. You remove that reference to Steely Dan. You cut how you want to travel in style. Yet these men keep on writing – talking about how they’re young for their age, how they’d love to have children, how they have everything in life except a good younger woman.

If you’re 36, you’re pretty darned confused by these emails. By the time you have your first child, you’ll be 38 or 39. Which will make him, what? 58 or 59? By the time the kid is in high school, Dad will be 74! That’s not the kind of life you imagined for yourself or your children. So you politely decline. Or, to keep things simple, you ignore. And ignore. And ignore. It doesn’t stop older men from writing, but at least you don’t have to explain yourself to a man who doesn’t want to hear your perfectly valid explanation.

Understand, Dale, there is nothing wrong with you being attracted to a fertile and youthful woman in her 30’s. Really. I’m not judging you. But you must understand that any woman you desire online has choices. Lots and lots of choices.

She can go out with a cute, successful man who is 35. Or 40. Or 45. Or 50. Are you getting the idea? This does not mean that you’re not a great guy with a ton to give and the purest intentions. It’s that you’re failing to recognize what most younger women want. A peer. A partner. Not a father figure. You’re still wrapped up in what YOU want.

Needless to say, this goes for ALL people who are dating online. …

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79 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice

79 Responses to “How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested in Me?”

1. Dawn 1

   This is so true, and it doesn’t stop in the 30s, either. I’ll be 42 in a couple of weeks, and in two years of online dating, I’d say about 70% of the people who write to me are fifty and over, often MUCH over. I think the record so far is the 74-year-old who said he could have his daughter pick him up at the nursing home and bring him into the city if I were willing to meet for coffee. I wish I were joking about that.

   Your last line is telling, though, and hints at the broader trend. I absolutely want to date someone age-appropriate. Unfortunately, it seems that all the men my age only want much younger women, which leaves me with the 20-somethings who think “MILF” is an appropriate subject line and write messages about being “into older women,” and the aforementioned geriatric (or borderline) set. The middle is one big desert.

   If everyone is looking downstream, age-wise (except the few who have a “kink” for older types), where does that leave those of us who really are looking for a peer? Does this mean I’m only focusing on what I want? Should I adjust my objectives to what the market has to offer? This question is exactly why I’m on a dating hiatus at the moment, since I just can’t bring myself to seek out a much older man, or play the cougar.

2. Roger 2

   Hang it up Dale. Or, be prepared to spend years searching for something you probably won’t find.

   It’s hard enough to get a pretty woman to respond to a guy who is only 10 years older (even if he’s good looking and successful). You’re 20 years older. You’ve been watching too many movies Dale, where 55 year old guys are getting hot 30 year olds. Doesn’t happen in real life, except in very rare situations. Like Even says, why should a woman date you, even if you’re successful and good looking, when she can get the same version of you that’s 15 years younger.

   I’n not knocking you. I was the same way when I started online dating (though I was looking for women who were “only” 10-15 years younger than me.)

   I was in for a rude awakening. The flip side is that I have really learned to appreciate women closer to my own age now. And Evan is right, these older women are underappreciated and in many cases they are undervalued gems. Now I can’t believe I wasted so much of my time chasing young women and was so stubbornly opposed to trying women in my own age range.

3. Eve 3

   How about those of us who are in our 20s who endure the emails from those in their 40-60s? I am 26 years old. I told my mom about this issue and she found it rather disturbing that people that much older than me were interested in that way. This is coming from my mom who is 17 years younger than my father.

   Thanks Evan for your insightful articles.

4. Zann 4

   Evan: I applaud your mature, diplomatic, and patient response to Poor Dale. I am withholding my own response to him because it would be judgmental, opinionated, and probably not very productive in the long run. Let’s just say that the breadth of my sympathy for Dale would fit in the space between these two letters — DF. Now never mind what sordid things you might think “DF” could stand for, but focus instead on that little tiny space there between the D and the F. And, Dale, if you’re reading this you might want to check that out, too — but first you’ll want to go get your reading glasses from wherever you left them last, and while you’re down there poking between the couch cushions, look for your brain, too. OOOHHH damn, now I’ve gone and done it. Sorry, Dale, it just slipped out. Forgive me, I’m one of those OLD broads who can’t keep her hormones in line. Run away!
   Dawn: Pulleeaasse don’t give yourself another second of anxiety over what you should adjust or refocus, because what you’re looking for is absolutely reasonable — as Evan stated so eloquently — you’re look for a peer! Most mature humans want to hook up with someone with whom there’s some degree of mutuality when it comes to their histories, cultural mores and values, impact of political events, without their partner continually asking them things like , “Who’s Abby Hoffman?” or “How can you listen to Motown — it’s so cheesy!” or “Are you telling me that you used to not shave your legs, your armpits, OR your crotch? Freaky!” Freaky indeed. Sure, we all need to broaden our scope from time to time, but you’re certainly entitled to desire a relationship with a guy from your own age group, your own generation’s “sphere of influence,” and who can more closely share the context from which you form your attitudes and perspectives on the past AND on things to come. It’s not that you’re over-focusing on yourself; you’re being absolutely reasonable. I don’t think men pay much attention to what age range woman say they want to draw from when searching for a man. Why? It beats me, but I can only guess it’s because they’re either too lazy to read beyond a woman’s photo, or they are so unwaveringly confident in their prowess and uniqueness that they’re sure if you met them, age spots or no, nose rings or no, you’d see what a fine, virile catch they are — at any age! Don’t change your comfort zone in order to play to those men who persist in seeking an ideal or a fantasy they’re convinced will make them feel good about themselves. But don’t give up, either. A dating hiatus is just what’s needed sometimes, because finding a mate is just damn hard for most of us….and time consuming and ego-battering and exhausting, whether you’re a cougar or a codger. Best of luck!

5. Shari 5

   Zann – I love what you said about men chasing a fantasy so they can feel good about themselves. I’m 44 and have dated men from 35 to 57 but prefer men in a 5 year range either way – younger or older, we just have more in common. But I’ve definitely run into the 50 something man looking for someone much younger and I’d not been able to word it as eloquently as you did. A fantasy to make themselves feel better about themselves….thanks, I’m going to borrow that one for use later (with full credit given of course).

6. Sally 6

   Picture this: An older fella writes to me. I tell him he’s older than the age range I am looking for. SO…. he changes his age on his profile and then writes to me again. LIKE I’M NOT GOING TO NOTICE THAT HE IS SUDDENLY 15 YEARS YOUNGER! I have to give him kudos for trying.

7. Camilla 7

   I’m 42 and just exited a marriage to a man 12 years older. When we met, at 36 & 48, it didn’t seem like a problem at all. But when I found myself entering the prime early-40′s, feeling like I’m at my best, my husband was in a totally different cycle. He wants to wind-down on doing fun things, and give his career a make-it-or-break-it push to the exclusion of anything else. Bored to tears, I finally left. I could have seen the age difference coming, but didn’t. Now I only want someone close to my age!

   Sally: I hear you about guys lying about their age. I’ve been trying to figure out why so many of they guys my age look SO MUCH older. My guy early-40′s guy friends don’t look old! Have these guys just aged badly? Then I realized that a lot of the guys on Match.com are probably lying about their age. LOL.. though I’m sure women do too. But it took me awhile to figure it out. Ha!

8. ABF 8

   Evan, you hit the nail on the head regarding the disconnect between women and older men on-line (and out in the real world as well). I would also add that many women, including myself, are troubled by the attentions of older men for a few other reasons:

   1. His ad notes that he is not seeking women his own age. This is a red flag to many women. For those truly open to a relationship – age shouldn’t be an issue. Does he want to meet someone he is compatible with? Or is he just looking for either arm candy? The fact that he won’t date a woman his own age tends to suggest the later.

   2. Also, when a woman sees that the guy is looking for much younger women to have his children, she tends to feel objectified. Again, those looking for marriage and family generally want the whole solid relationship. This includes being with a partner that loves and respects them for their individual traits. When he says he wants a wife to bear his children – a woman may feel as if she is only being valued for her womb. It is a pretty icky feeling to be on the receiving end of that type of attention.

   3. Finally, now that I am in my 30s and see that men my age tend to date women in their 20s I am developing more empathy for my older “sisters”. Thus, for me personally I would prefer to leave the older men for them to date. This is not to say that if I met a guy 20 years older who happens to blow me away – I would not date him. I only mean that I have no desire to seek it out and waste my time and his time when another woman may be more suitable in age and situation.

   Just my long winded $.02

9. Sam 9

   Dale, Let us younger men have the younger women. You had your chance twenty years ago. Were you one of those guys who was afraid to settle down? If you were looking to settle down then, but didn’t meet the right woman, what makes you think you are going to meet the right woman now? At least when you were in your thirties the women you were dating were of your generation. Now you could be your gf’s father.

   Evan, I like your blog very much. You’re one insightful guy. However, I cannot help but noticing that when you write about Tom Pandolfo (5’3”) and now Dale you mention that they are successful. Are you tacitly conceding that a short, middle-income guy or old, middle income guy would have little/no chance at all in finding the woman of his dreams?

10. jane 10

    Hello,

    Just a quick comment, this man does not say he wants a relationship he wants someone, “willing to have children by him”. Now really, this is 2007 not 1959. Further, “well to do”, and “fairly well educated” my, my, who isn’t these days? So I have to wonder, is this man er, short or bald (gasp! such politically incorrect questions)? Perhaps he is not as fit as he could be, perhaps he is emotionally unavailable etc.? Yup the issues that are considered – after all men do not want to date a woman who isn’t fit (that’s a big flag the woman doesn’t value herself).

    Now to paraphrase you Evan. In a previous article on why men want to date younger women when you cut to the crash your answer was, “BECAUSE THEY CAN”. Well as Dale is well-educated he should/would be able to work out that younger women don’t want to date men 20 years older than themselves BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE TO.

    Best
    Jane
    P.S. At 50 I have dated younger men. It’s fun and they are wonderful partners but, with rare exceptions, it isn’t a viable long-term partnership.

11. Lisa 11

    I’d think too, that a guy who was specifically looking for a woman 10-20 years younger than himself was NOT looking for someone for compatibility–rather just someone to “show off” in hopes of raising his “stock” with HIS peers. I’d think that kind of guy to be shallow, off-putting, and likely not a very interesting individual in his own right.

    Add to that a 56 yr. old man looking for someone to have his children and on the surface it looks like he just wants a breed mare. If I were in the narrow age range he specified I’d be going “Eeeewww” reading such expectations.

12. Lily 12

    I’m a tall slim, attractive successful and well-educated 51-year woman with a great profile on the net. In my experience I have found the large majority of guys seem to be following this line of thought and over looking great women in pursuit of just that delusional dream. They seem to have over looked the enormous choices available to younger women these days. If money is your only draw card then remember that these intelligent well-educated successful women will probably be earning more that you do.
    With regard to children at a late age. I was a child born into just such a situation and my father was dead by the I was 32 even though he lived until 82. The last of his 5 children and 2 marriages he actually had a grandchild before I was even born. Think long and hard about what you’re asking for. It has long lasting consequences.
    Lily

13. John 13

    Evan’s right as he is most of the time. One thing Evan said a while back that stuck with me was that the biggest mistake a lot people make online is that BOTH men & women think that they can do better than who they’ve been able to attract normally in the past and or in the real world. IE: Guys (and gals too) that are 3′s or 4′s on the rating scale initiating contact with the best looking 8′s & 9′s on the site. Then they complain when noone responds. Well duh !!! This is an extreme example of that. This guy Dale either is delusional or has very little online dating experience. His only realistic chance of succeeding is the niche golddigger site’s like Evan said.

    Remember online the average woman’s value is inflated and sometimes skyrockets. The average man’s value is deflated and usually plummets due to supply & demand.

14. Miss Julie 14

    I have to say, Evan, that you hit the nail on the head here. As a 36 year old woman who has had her fair share of emails from 50+ men, I can tell you that you could have typed this blog entry right out of my own head. I am not interested in dating someone 15 or 20 years older than me anymore than I am interested in dating someone 15 years younger than me.

15. Carol 15

    I am in a ballroom dance class where several “older” men have been hitting on a much younger Asian woman. She confided in me how uncomfortable it makes her and what a bad position it puts her in to evade giving out her number, etc. I thought men enjoyed being “appreciated”, well if they wanted to be appreciated they would find someone closer to their own age!

16. Ruby 16

    I’m 49. Due to good genes and taking good care of myself, I’m usually mistaken for being anywhere from 7-12 years younger, but I’ve found that many men my age (who look much older than I do), assume that all women my age look “old”. In addition, one of the biggest problems with on-line dating is the consumer mentality it encourages; that is, anyone can order up the perfect partner, or more importantly, the one whom they THINK is the perfect partner, whether there’ s much basis for it in reality, or not. Thankfully, I met my wonderful boyfriend (age 47 and looks great) off-line!

17. Jessica 17

    Miss Julie’s comment:(In 100% accord with…)

    I have to say, Evan, that you hit the nail on the head here. As a 36 year old woman who has had her fair share of emails from 50+ men, I can tell you that you could have typed this blog entry right out of my own head. I am not interested in dating someone 15 or 20 years older than me anymore than I am interested in dating someone 15 years younger than me.

    This is me as well and I SO appreciate you being frank with Dale Evan and trying to get him to see it from our shoes. Every time you get an email from someone who is way outside of your dating parameters, it takes away time from the men who might be good for you and you good for them. I’m talking decades out of your specified range, not a year or two.

    Your suggestion, Evan, for him to try the Reverse Match is excellent as it will show him younger women who want older men. Reverse Match is frequently a nightmare for women in their 20′s and 30′s because it so often turns up men who are 50, 60 and up. To each his own, but why do so many people insist on trying to make people fit what they want instead of seeing what is right there before them (provided you told the truth in your profile and clearly expressed your wants, needs, etc.).

    It kills me when someone says (and I exaggerate here : ) – )… I’m 92, but I look 76. Yeah, how someone looks is important, but it doesn’t change the fact that he might pass away a lot sooner (potentially) than the 76 year old or that he was alive when you weren’t by a good 20 or even 30 years. I still have people sometimes ask me if I am in college – and I am 36. This actually is difficult at times because makes me not feel my age. So being with someone who is a lot older also really makes me feel I look as if I am with my dad, as well as feel that way. I love my dad and hang out with him a lot, but I wouldn’t want to date him (metaphorically speaking).

    And many of these gentlemen have already had kids once. Some haven’t and if it is that important to them to do so before they exit this earth, I can’t fault that.

    But I truly don’t understand wanting second and third batches of kids when you are old enough to already be a grand parent from the get-go. It isn’t fair to the children or the woman who had them in her 20′s or 30′s with the older guy and then suddenly he is gone and she is raising them alone. Not knocking the women who chose this option, I just have never understood it or wanted that for myself.

    I said this in another post – I have friends in their early 20′s to a friend who is 102. I also tried to date younger – um, a lot younger to make sure I wasn’t being too biased. As in he was 21 and I was 34. He was really smart, mature for his age for the most part, in a band and way out of my comfort soon and normal dating age range. Yikes! He lived in a tent and rode a bike (bicycle, not Harley) and I soon found out his mother was only 3 years older than I and as it turns out, also named Jessica. Need I say more …?!?

    I went from sometimes not feeling old enough or mature enough or my true age to feeling like Mrs. Robinson.

    I still value the time I spent with him and there were some great things about it – also learned a lot about relationships and myself. One is that dating much younger than I – more than 3 or 4 years way doesn’t work for me at my current age. Might as I get older and he gets older too : )

    I also learned that you can keep an open mind and you most certainly should, but there is also nothing wrong with knowing your mind (and heart) and sticking to your guns and your intuition.

    What and how you feel, is what and how you feel. Just as is the case for Dale. Same for what you want and/or need. But you still have to take the other person’s preferences and stipulations into real account. IF by some chance you meet them and you both fall without age coming into play and it turns out the age difference is more than you are normally comfortable with, but you care about him and it works for you, then go for it. Otherwise, “the force is not with you…” Don’t try to force it.

    Please don’t put us in the position of having to either be rude and ignore you (guys like Dale) or to have to spend endless amts. of time explaining and/or justifying why we put the age range (in clear print) that we did on our profiles. You have better things to do than having to read those explanations, and we have better things to do than have to write them. Time spent doing so could be on finding someone who was a true fit.

    That said, I do wish Dale the best of luck in finding what he seeks.

18. hunter 18

    to jessica,

    ….according to statistics, most of the best marriages, involved people, with a 15 year age difference…………

19. verbosity 19

    Interesting thread. This general subject matter is treated in several other threads (Where are Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men). Dale’s hope is not the most reasonable, given the facts. Evan’s response is terrific.

    I think there is an undiscussed gray area here. I posted on this subject the the aforementioned thread in several posts, so I’ll combine and edit…

    “However, a vast majority (74%) of American women say they would marry for money. http://biz.yahoo.com/wallstreet/071214/sb119760031991928727_id.html?.v=1 To be fair, plenty of men polled said they would also, but significantly few #’s than women. this is also borne out by most men’s personal experience. Also, take a look on Match.com. It is shocking to see how many women only seek men who make who make 2x (or more) than what she makes.

    There are also other reasons women want men who make substantially more so that women have options (have kids, not have kids, stay home, pursue additional education, etc.) Many men feel women ignore this fundamental imbalance – that women, no matter what they earn, see having these options as their right (via men who earn more), but that men have no such option….it is simply their job to earn. I grant there are exceptions, but they are so few & far between so as not to be mentionable. The simple point is that we as men are just to earn so she has options.

    I actually had this conversation with my mother recently when she questioned why I do not want to marry. When I made my point about how I have no options but that women do (see above), she said “That’s what you’re supposed to do as a man.” (Yes, even she knows the deck’s stacked in her favor.) I said, “Mom, they banned indentured servitude 200-plus years ago. It seems a better option for me to keep my freedom and options.” Her response…”Well, I don’t want to argue about this anymore.”

    Lastly, one cannot discount the divorce rate and the effect of divorce laws. Women initiate divorces about 70% of the time (See AARP and Discovery Health). Further, depending on where you live, the divorce rate exceeds 50% in most highly populus places (esp. ‘no-fault’ states). In AZ, it was 65% in 2005 (See cdc.gov). CA, the 800 pound gorilla in terms of population (and who do not report divorce stats to Census), is very high: Average Divorce Rate: 75.54%** (Reference: Court Statistics Reports for 1996-2004.)

    I’m not going to comment on divorce laws and how they operate to divide property. That is a definite subject of another thread Evan may start one if he wished. Is does exist, though.

    What I try to show by the above points is the context within men are making their dating choices. Many women and men are told by major publications (NYT) that men are unnecessary. (Except to pay for the dating/mating) Women can and often do earn more than men (see above). JuJu herself mentioned that in seeking men who earn more (and are generous with it) women have more options than men. Depending on where you live, the divorce rate far exceeds 50%, with 70% of those divorces (and, by proxy, long term relationships) initiated by women.

    Is it any wonder that increasing numbers of men chafe at paying nearly everything in the dating/mating dance? From day 1, men have to pay to date. JuJu noted that women want men who will give them options regarding children (and my addition of other options). Men have no options there (generally). They must work for her options. Women seek men who make more money than they. Then, once married and legally entitled to 1/2 of his income and property, they initiate divorce 70% of the time. And then men pay in the end. (I grant there are exceptions, but they are so few in number, so as not to merit mention.)

    I bring this up to make the point that men have no qualms going for younger women, since all women, younger and older, look at him and his wallet. This is a generalization, but an accurate one based upon the evidence. Why do you think you do see many young women on the arm of men far older than they? If men are going to pay, pay for what you desire. (No moral judgments here – just a summarization of what occurs in the real world, like it or not).

    The point of all of this? In general, men like younger women. They are usually more fun, usually physically more attractive, less likely to have a ceaseless focus on men’s fallabilities. After the aforementioned divorce or ended long term relationship, most men I have talked to just want something simple (though not a brainless organ grinding chimp) and to have fun. They often see their 20’s and 30’s as a waste of their youth and fun time due to their previously mentioned divorce, LTR. Now in their 40’s and up they prefer younger, simpler women.

    Also, this is very non-PC, but so what? Men can afford to go after younger women also. Not monetarily speaking (but oh boy does it factor in – see above), but in this way – Men, as we age, generally get more distinguished and attractive (presuming we don’t go completely to pot) to a wider range of women older & younger. Our options increase to a wider range. Women simply do not. Their options therefore reduce as men’s options increase. Yes I know what I just wrote is unpopular, but it occurs enough to merit mention.

    That said, women in their 20’s likely do have more dating options than men in their 20’s, generally speaking (particularly if they are good-looking). My belief is that women in general are more likely to choose men who make and/or have significantly more money. So women in their 20’s have the option of men in their 20’s, 30’s 40’s & up.

    I do not say this by way of complaint. It say it to present a ‘big picture’ view of these factors. Regarding the specifics, I do believe Dale’s desires are less than reasonable based upon the evidence presented. However, they are not without basis in reality.

    One man’s perspective….

20. Jessica 20

    I am actually not arguing a man’s right to pursue younger women or saying that they shouldn’t. Just that it doesn’t work for me and as such, I would like for older gentlemen to respect my stated wishes and preferences and focus on those women who do want a more seasoned partner.

    As for the seeing a man as a wallet – I know there are a lot of women out there who do that, but I have NEVER done that – I take care of myself and I tend to look at income if mentioned in their profile in terms of is he divorced with an ex wife and kids to support as a consideration because it might mean that we wouldn’t be in very good financial shape AS A COUPLE if he has four kids. Not that he can’t keep me in style.

    I don’t respect women who expect men to buy them drinks in bars or to drop a lot of cash on them just because they are men and it is their “job” – whether it be a first date, the tenth, their wedding date or what have you.

    Relationships are about compromise and give and take and that applies to finances too. Unlike a lot of Evan’s bloggers, I am not a woman who makes a lot of money – though I still make more than many women in general – and many things are still a struggle for me as I attempt to get education/training/degree number 3.

    Even so, I still do not assume anything and if the man does pay, I never order anything expensive – doesn’t matter whether he makes a lot of money or not. Though I am even more careful if I know that he doesn’t or that much of it is already promised elsewhere. I too reciprocate by baking cookies, renting movies – whatever I can afford to do.

    IF someone invites me out and I am not clear that he is paying because he asked, then I will politely say that sounds like fun, but usually mention that I might want to do something that is relatively cost free as money is very tight and a concern right now. NOT fishing to make him pay. And I often try to pay my half of the check too.

    Though this actually has offended some men who then think I didn’t consider it a real date or that I must not like them enough to let them pay. I don’t necessarily disagree with Verbosity in what you stated. I know women who have dated and married men 10-15 years their Senior. Some are very happy and some find the age difference has become a marked problem. One of them is 15 years younger than her second husband and people frequently assume he is her father or the grandfather of her kids. They don’t like the same music and have pretty different views on a lot of things. If it works for someone, then more power to them! Though I am honest in saying I don’t understand having two and three sets of kids into retirement age with them being babies at the time.

    I feel like a kid when I date a man that much older. Maybe it is because I am changing careers again, still in an apartment, and look younger than I am – by a lot! I personally am uncomfortable enough with the age difference that I am not able to be myself. To my way of thinking – being terribly conscious of a big age gap and feeling weird and not being me would decrease the odds of a successful relationship and/or marriage despite the statistics Hunter mentions.

21. verbosity 21

    Jessica,

    I happen to agree with you, and respect what you say on this matter. I simply seek to point out what I see as the context within which many men make act in the dating arena.

    i think your outlook is healthy. Too bad people of both sexes do not share it….

22. LS 22

    Just to add another mix to this discussion. I would add just one question. Dose a young vibrant woman want to spend her youth (the best years of her life) looking after young children and one old man? Regardless of money power or position. Or is that older men are looking for someone to not only make them feel young again but look after them in their old age? What about the young women’s youth. Her time is now and she must spend it wisely, as she too will be old one day. What then? Will she be looking for a younger man to make her feel good? We have or have had our time and how spend it is our responsibility. Trying to snatch another persons youth in order to try and regain your own really works and it is each persons responsibility to deal wisely with their now. That’s all you have.

23. J 23

    Any time you have statistics, you still have to remember that whatever percentage does or doesn’t serve to make, or back up, your point is still only a percentage of the men, women, or people actually polled. And then it is used as an average. So saying 74% of women polled said they would marry for money means that 74% of the women polled would do this. Not that 74% of all the women in the world would do so. It is a high number in that study. It could still be that it is that high at large, too. But I can unequivocally state honestly and with feeling, that I am not in that number – as in no one polled me on this subject either as part of this group or in a mass, world study somehow – or even a major nationwide study. And I don’t have any women I call friends or that I respect who would marry for money either. Of this, I am absolutely certain. I am not trying to prove someone wrong who says women are only seeing men as wallets, just trying to be seen as an individual as these men are wanting women to see them as, while rather emphatically asserting that women as a whole don’t and generalizing that women are gold diggers or opportunists. I’ve seen women like that and heard about them, and watched them take advantage of both men in bars, men they were dating, and women they were hanging out with, letting them pick up the tab, expecting to be ferried around, etc. But I don’t condone what they do and they are not my friends from the moment I see that they take advantage of others.

24. verbosity 24

    I do not cite any stats as justification for men choosing girls their daughter’s age or anything like that. Rather, I do it in part to answer the question of why there seems to be a dearth of good, available men in the 40 & up range….I wouldn’t call it a cause-and-effect point (cause -women want $, effect – men choose younger girls). I think it’s more of a chicken-and-egg situation.

25. cp 25

    I dont want $$. I want a good looking, healthy guy. I dont want my father, or to be wanted because of my youth/looks. the whole thing just grosses me out.

26. Mattie 26

    What an interesting and enlightening parcel of advice-and-posts: Dale should surely derive much benefit.

    I’d simply like to add my conjecture (aside from agreeing with J’s post on the credibility of statistics – 100% and with no margin of error): isn’t the problem itself due to the framework or structure in which it exists – ie Internet dating?

    A friend of mine characterised male contributors to one of the most popular sites in UK for professionals/educated/liberal types as “either married men, or younger men looking for older women.” And, yup, this turned out to be fair comment by and large. [He also offered some withering translations of commonly-used terms, e.g. 'very attractive' or 'curvaceous' = fat. I'd add: 'tactile' = groper; 'eccentric/amusing/unusual' = boring wanker ('jerkoff')!] And nobody reads the … FP(rofile)!

    When I tried this method, all the men I ‘met’ online were either liars or had stratospheric expectations and demands – or, horror of horrors, both! And I think both practices are encouraged by the nature of this form of meeting people, with its standalone structure and box-ticking format. If you were to meet a potential date at a dinner party, then you’d have some means of checking his or her ‘story’, wouldn’t you? Also, if you sit down and set out your demands in this detailed, almost-entirely materialistic and rather superficial fashion, then you’re hardly going to set the overall bar low, are you? In addition, it gives a lonely and frustrated man an entirely spurious sense of power – and we all know what power does, don’t we …? Not least, the Internet is a predominantly visual medium, meaning that people tend to approach it both rather passively – and hyper-critically (casting a cold eye on it – just think about how you are when watching, e.g. news on television).

    Internet dating’s very time-consuming, as well. Perhaps Dale might be better advised to invest in one of those private – duly registered and authorised – matchmakers.

    As for the dreaded financial considerations, well I’ve always paid my way to speak personally (even re-mortgaged my property to pay off my then-spouse’s debts. Bad move: marriage + property market duly went into freefall!). But the lack of protocols/rules/etiquette makes the whole dating thing very confusing for everyone. A Basque friend in his late 40s (from Spanish side of Euskadi) put it very well: “On the first date, I pay because I have invited her. After that, then we share – according, of course, to what we can afford.” I can’t see anything wrong in that reasoning.

    But what the hell do I know?! Good luck to Dale, anyway. I think Evan has hit nearly all the relevant nails neatly and concisely on the head in this case. And, yes, nearly all younger women are liable to be repelled by a much-older suitor who regards them as brood mares. And rightly so.

    Mattiex

27. Hadley Paige 27

    to J: “Any time you have statistics, you still have to remember that whatever percentage does or doesn’t serve to make, or back up, your point is still only a percentage of the men, women, or people actually polled. And then it is used as an average. So saying 74% of women polled said they would marry for money means that 74% of the women polled would do this. Not that 74% of all the women in the world would do so.

    1026(or something very close to this number if my memory serves me correctly) — That, according to received wisdom in the world of statistics is the magic number. If you take in a truly representative cross section of persons in your survey (no small challenge), and they tell the truth, that is the minimum number of people you need to be statistically representative of the population (the population the statistician is attempting to describe) as a whole. Taking the same poll w a million people should produce the same result predictively. I don’t understand that mathematically (I’m no expert) or viscerally but apparently that is the case.

    Note: The fact that some posters to this column say that they and all their friends don’t match the statistics, whatever they may be, attempts to suggest of imply that the statistic stated is wrong. This is an incorrect inference.

28. J 28

    Hey and thanks for the figures, Hadley. I wasn’t aware of the number that is needed to make something a correct statistic. Not being sarcastic, truly. Just never have been a numbers person. Probably why I became a writer. I am not meaning to say that the statistics are wrong. Or at least, I don’t think I was. I just think they are correct for the people who participated and don’t feel they truly represent all people everywhere BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. I do sometimes feel like some of the posters state things in a manner which makes it sound as if what they are saying is true about all women – not just the ones they have come across or the ones that that 70% covers – as far as the percentage of women who see a man for his wallet. And yeah, that does kinda put my panties in a wad, or as Mattie might say – my knickers in a twist ; ) I guess I should say that I am not in that 70% who do. That would probably be a more accurate way of stating it. If there were a statistic out there that said 70% of all men are jerkoffs, and I were quoting it as fact because 70% of the men in a study of 1046 of them studied just happened to be such, I think a lot of men would probably object to that too. And feel it wasn’t representative of the population at large just because it was true of those polled. I will also cop to making a “C” in Statistics even with a tutor – despite making very good grades otherwise. So maybe I just don’t get statistics. I get discouraged when I find people making generalizations or stereotypes because it seems to hurt both the person who does that and the rest of us out there IF it makes it so we are all seen less as an individual and for who WE are – and given a fair shake/chance – and as more of a number and a “negative” one at that. Meaning of course, if the generalizations and stereotypes are not good or positive. Sorry I am not stating this very well – rough couple of weeks financial and stress-wise and not looking promising for the next couple months in terms of me being able to make my own situation better.

29. Mattie 29

    Hello, more food for thought from everybody, which comes as no surprise on this site. Although I have to say that Evan and MrsVee are top of my personal polls.

    Just a quick word to J – I’m a writer (hack/journo), too. I’m also struggling – and, irony of ironies, am a financial specialist! Nonetheless, my knickers remain resolutely un-knotted … there is only so much discomfort I am prepared to tolerate, after all, and I believe firmly in showing my undergarments who is boss at all times.

    Seriously though, I sympathise fully with your predicament, hope it’s strictly temporary and will improve very soon.

    Best wishes and good luck,

    Mattiex

30. hunter 30

    ….common practice all over europe,… the younger man with a mature woman. Women don’t have to be the “good” girl, ’till the right man comes along……just do whatever you want to do gracefully…..’cause men are watching…

31. hunter 31

    to dale,

    …your younger bride is out there,….just, try and stay away from the “sexy” women…….

32. J 32

    Just a reply to Mattie –

    Hey there, Mattie – I am in agreement with you, I too place Evan and Mrs. Vee at the top of my personal polls. Though I would place you and your sage, and well-worded thoughtful and thought out advice, up there as well.

    I appreciate the shout out and the well wishes. Very much so.

    I am sorry to hear that you too are struggling – though I think that just goes with the territory of being a writer or any kind of artist at times. Doesn’t make it any easier – just expected : ) Are you a financial specialist in terms of your journo position, or is it a separate occupation for you?

    In any case, if your what you write is anything like what you post, then your pieces are as edifying as they are edifying as they are entertaining.

    Your comments about your knickers not being in twist were the bees knees, to be sure. Didn’t mean to imply that yours might be ; ) – just borrowing a British term. But I absolutely adored your response, nonetheless.

    I suppose it is ironic that I am trying to pen romance novels and still find myself struggling in the dating department. Thank god for so many learning and research opportunities of all kinds, including this blog.

    I have a Journalism degree and a Baking & Pastry Arts degree (have worked in fields utilizing each), but am currently working for a Brand Invention and Reinvention firm (and have for the last 10 years), working also to start a business editing and writing Personal Legacy Letters/Ethical Wills and/or Memoirs in addition to writing novels. And may also go to school soon for Medical Transcription as it is a much needed service that pays pretty well if one is quite proficient and prolific and the better I can listen and assimilate info and the faster I can type will serve me well with both the books and my fledgeling business.

    Consulting is a business that inherently has a lot of ebbs in flows in terms of the work available, the need for consultants, and the money that is up for grabs in terms of branding projects.

    Has been a down time for a bit.

    Staying afloat and getting ahead is definitely trying right now, but am hopeful that I can do whatever I must for a better and brighter future. Not just financially, but in many aspects of my life. Have learned a great deal about people, relationships, writing, business, what I have to give and what I want out of life. Now just going about putting it into practice.

    Thank you for the encouragement, Mattie.

    All the best and good luck to you as well,

    J

33. Mattie 33

    J – thank you so much for your kind words, and for telling me what you’re up to. What a very interesting combination of skills you have, and are obviously acquiring even more: may they all combine to make you richly-deserved riches!

    Evan and everyone else: please forgive a direct post off-subject. Please! Sorry.

    Most of what I write professionally is complete cobblers, frankly. Thankfully, none of it matters a tinker’s damn – especially since nobody else in financial journalism seems to know what they’re on about, either!

    Yes, this is one good reason I find Evan and all you posters so refreshing: basically, you’re all concerned with truth -honesty, sincerity, reality – and maintain a respectful, collegial standard of debate while moving towards more personal discoveries.

    Many moons ago, I worked in market research and I got so bored I used to make up, er, a certain proportion of the raw data. Since when I do not trust surveys of any kind. (Although my crime paid, as the boss sussed me and promptly booted me into copywriting – thereby allowing far more scope for my, er, imagination!)

    Used to be senior comms management in FTSE company; ex-director of ag agency; ex-corporate comms consultant. Survived redundancy x 2, followed by critical illness; but ageism can’t be overcome. Now, among other things (when I can get ‘em), I write on b2l (‘buy-to-let’ – residential property investment market). Although the property market is heading inexorably for the plughole.

    So am currently contemplating returning to France (career began in Paris) to teach persons francais how to gub the s*** out of persons anglophones in ‘le business’. Not much of a challenge, given fact that the PFs, deigning to put in a mere 2/3 of the manhours of their British equivalents, yet manage to be TWICE as productive as ‘les rosbifs’ …

    Hope I am not speaking out of turn, here – but in UK there is a Romantic Novelists’ Association – is there US equivalent? I believe our lot runs courses or may be able to provide advice, moral support, etc. Publishers Mills & Boon specialise in this sphere, and have detailed guidelines for prospective authors (they apparently pay relatively generously, too). Also check out websites of Elizabeth Chadwick and Katie Fforde; these might be helpful or encouraging …? Although I’m sure you must have your own, impeccable research resources at hand.

    Best of luck, bon courage – and keep going: in the film ‘Throw Momma from the Train’ (aw, sweet …!), the writer-characters’ battle cry = ‘Remember: writers write – always!’

    I suppose the same applies to the search for love.

    Mattie xx

34. Shari 34

    Mattie – to step into your conversation here….

    There is a US equivalent of the UK’s Romantic Novelists’ Association, it’s called the Romance Writers of America (RWA) and there is a website that can direct aspiring novelists to various local groups who could help them along the way.

35. J 35

    Hey Mattie and Shari (Shari – thanks for letting us know about RWA)-

    Thank you so much Mattie for the kind words and for the encouragement and info! Going to keep this shorter than I normally would since is still on a personal topic.

    Shari is right – about RWA, of which I am a member. And I belong to GRW (Georgia Romance Writers), a local chapter of RWA in GA. Fabulous group of very diverse and successful author – many of whom are on the NY Times Bestseller List and/or have had their novels made into movies and such. Also a bunch of really great “unpubs” to date. They sponsor the Maggie Awards, and M&M Conference and we have workshops, speakers, etc.

    Thank you again for sharing. I enjoyed getting to know you a bit better as well as gaining some more interesting, and valuable, perspective.

    Best of luck to you – if you go back to France, or wherever you land and whatever you do!

    Ciao for now,
    J

36. Geek Dating 36

    Hey just be yourself and the right person will come along.

37. Jim Peters 37

    The solution to your problem is you need to stop trying to date western (especially native-English speaking) women. There are millions and millions of 18-23 year old beautiful women that would kill to date a man like you. Except they live in Ukraine, Brazil, Russia, Thailand, Mexico, etc.

38. JuJu 38

    Year after year I saw this one woman put up her profile on this one site (which I visited pretty much once a year =), or even less often), who kept saying how much she’d like to become a mother. She was in her early 40′s and obese, like, 280 lb at least (there was a picture). Would Dale consider someone like that?

39. Sabina 39

    Evan,
    Thank God someone FINALLY said this. Everyone is so afraid to speak the truth about this situation because they are afraid of hurting the older man’s feelings. What about the older women who are offended by him, as well as the younger women who are offended that someone that age would even think that he was worthy of them? There are 93 million single people running around this country right now. This is the reason why; women, whether they are 22, 32 or even 52, all want to date a man close to their age, (4 to 5 years younger or 5 to 7 years older). Men all want to date a woman 10 to 15 or even 20 years younger. God forbid they should find someone 10 to 20 years younger interested in them. Because when they do, they will have likely hooked up with a woman who is after them strictly for their money and as soon as she has it, will leave them broke and heart-broke. Or the other alternative might be that he will find a woman who is actually LOOKING for a father figure. A woman who wants to have sex with her father is a wack job from the get-go. Not to mention the sexual imcompatibility of a younger woman-older man combination.
    Well said Evan!

40. hunter 40

    Sabina, on Post #39

    You speak the truth. My wingman, dates attractive women 20 years younger, only because, of his good looks, that he can do that. He was married for 5 years, widowed, and has been dating the rest of his life,(he is now late 50′s) only because, pretty, young women continue to go out with him………I try and stay close, just to catch the crumbs off his dinner table……hhhhmmmhh….LOL!…….women do say he is a nice guy….

41. JB 41

    Sabina “Men all want to date a woman 10 to 15 or even 20 years younger.”

    Don’t say ALL ! You’re WRONG !!! I’m 47 and I know a lot of guys my age who would be completely happy with a woman OUR AGE that we were ATTRACTED to. I’d certainly rather go out with a woman my age who was attractive than a woman 15 yrs younger who was UNATTRACTIVE.

42. qazarly 42

    One word describes a 38 year old woman wanting a family – DESPERATE ! Cue sound of biological alarm clock screaming!
    I do not think a high value male in his early forties will find this person particularly attractive, as he has plenty of time to settle down before raising a family. The guy in his fifties wants to start a family now. Logically they are a good match.

    I think this shows the problem with on-line dating because it gives the illusion that the woman has options, when in reality she may have few.
    Isn’t there a recent study that shows that in the real world men are marrying women 7 years on average younger in their forties and 11 years or more younger in their fifties. That is the reality.
    It looks like the answer is to forget on-line dating.

43. Janet 43

    Is everyone missing something here?….the fact that it’s just creepy.
    I am 52 and a 70 or 80 year old man after me is just plain creepy and sick….stick to your own age. It fits better.

44. Mo 44

    This article made me laugh aloud. I’m a 36 year old woman who has online dated off and on. I count even count how many times I’ve b*tched to my gf’s about this exact thing! I like to joke that I’m very popular with the 50 and over crowd! I just don’t get it! What frustrates me the most is that men DO NOT READ a person’s profile to check for a person’s age preference, etc and will email you because they think you’re cute. The oldest I’ve gotten was 60. I usually ignore and delete these emails but have to tell you that I get tempted from time to time to email back and tell them my dad is 59!

45. JuJu 45

    Mo,

    I once actually replied to someone (I was 26 or 27, and the man in question looked at least 55 on his pic), “Did you really think you stood a chance? You look older than my father!”

    To which he said, “Well, why not, some of my girlfriends were younger and/or prettier than you.”

    I guess I asked for it.

    I may have wrote back that he should go to them in that case, since I don’t share their problems; but I don’t remember if I did.

46. Hot Alpha Female 46

    Its easy to get dishearted and then to start generalizing.

    Like all the women don’t like older men.

    All the women this …

    All the women that ….

    And then you get caught up thinking that this is the reality. Well the truth is, that you only need ONE WOMAN and she maybe be an EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

    Enjoy the dating process, don’t focus too much on outcome and more on fun.

    Then you will be more able to attract someone who is right for you.

    Thumbs up Evan, some great advice

    Hot Alpha Female

47. Rachelle 47

    That is so true! I had a guy friend tell me that he was cruising the profiles and saw a gorgeous gal who was in her early 20′s. He read on and she stated in her profile that she only dates men over 40. That floored him! To each their own. =)

48. Adele 48

    in response to that:

    Or, they are after your green card.

49. Michael 49

    Also, when a woman sees that the guy is looking for much younger women to have his children, she tends to feel objectified. Again, those looking for marriage and family generally want the whole solid relationship. This includes being with a partner that loves and respects them for their individual traits. When he says he wants a wife to bear his children – a woman may feel as if she is only being valued for her womb. It is a pretty icky feeling to be on the receiving end of that type of attention.
    Having a family is a good reason to get married.

    If the goal is to make babies, marrying someone who is 21 would be optimal if fertility were the only factor calculated. (Of course, most women that age do not want kids yet.)

50. Michael 50

    I have sent e-mails to dozens of women, and very few hav e ever replied. One of them who did reply back mentioned that she has a boyfriend.

    I have noticed that some of the active profiles on my favorites lists were there for at least two years. Maybe they have similar luck.

51. hunter 51

    I would have to say, most men on this blog need more than one woman to date. On account of them having little dating experience.

52. JuJu 52

    Btw, now that you reminded us of this letter, I have a question: what did this man think about until he turned 56? Did he really think that he has until the end of his life to father children or something? He squanders his life away and now some much younger woman has to be at peace with a really high risk of bearing unhealthy offspring?

53. JuJu 53

    That’s not to mention all the other “joys” of getting old, obviously.

54. Ted 54

    I have a male friend, 43,  who is well dressed and earns a great income but has a face that will make a freight train take a dirt road. He turned 40 and never had a serious date. Finally… 3 years ago he visited the Philippines … Cebu City. He brought back a 27 year old, former beauty queen, who is a living angel.   They are very happy, they have a 2 year old son and plan on having 2 more kids.  Remember Western men, to most of the world…YOU are a Rockstar, the world REALLY is your oyster. If you are butt ugly or a little long in the tooth… don’t settle… buy a plane ticket.  

55. Olderdude 55

    I absolutely agree its going to be extremely difficult for an older man to meet a younger women online because women don’t respond to the “idea” of dating an older man, for all the reasons mentioned in the article.

    Instead, an older man will have MUCH better results if he gets himself out and personally interacts with younger women.  In this situation, its about the personality factor.  If you have some charm and know how to approach women, if you can strike up a conversation and be playful, if you can make her smile or laugh, the chances are MUCH better that she will see your personal qualities, not just the ‘sterile’ profile information.

    That’s not to suggest the chances will be as good as they would be if the age disparity were much less.  They won’t be, but the chances are a helluva lot better than doing it online, where the woman is going to get nothing about your personality, sense of humor, and other personal factors, which might spark a little bit of connection or chemistry that will cause her to see beyond the age difference.

    I’m middle-aged and I’ve charmed the pants off (literally) my share of women who were 15 ~ 18 years younger (BTW, all of them EXCEEDED the age of consent).  In addition, I’ve met-up with a few younger women to hang-out together for the day or even the weekend, just enjoying each other’s company, where it did not lead to sex (and I wasn’t disappointed in the least).  No pressure or expectations.  I’m a pretty good date and listener, I can chat about a lot of things, I have a good sense of humor, I’m not bad on the dance floor.

    And no, I’m not wealthy.  Far from it, I make slightly less than the median annual income for the US.  I own a modest home, I drive a pretty sensible car.  I don’t wear expensive designer clothing.  I don’t shower these girls with gifts or take them to expensive/exclusive restaurants.  Maybe a little bit upscale, but not expensive or exclusive.  I don’t always pay for everything, often times we go dutch.  I’m not leading man Hollywood attractive but I’m a real decent looking guy for my age.  I take care of myself and stay fit.

    I just get out there and try to hit it off with someone on a personal level, and sometimes it works.  I get rejected plenty of times, too, but so do young men trying to pick-up young women.  Oh, and it helps that I’m not looking for a baby maker or a housekeeper, either.  I’m pretty certain that some of the women I’ve met were open to a long term committed relationship but most of them weren’t really interested in that.  But you gotta start somewhere, you have to get your foot in the door, and its not going to happen by putting yourself out there as “Older guy seeking younger woman for marriage and children.”  Forget about it.  This will only get you a gold digger (even then, gold diggers are highly selective).

    Oh, and don’t go to clubs where you will stick out like a sore thumb because you’re by far the oldest dude in the joint.  A friend of mine can get away with that because he is some kind of genetic freak and looks a full 10 years younger than he is.  So most women peg him for 30 “ish” when he’s actually 41.  I can’t quite do that, I can easily pass for four or five years younger but not 10 (I’m 42).
    I might also have some uncommon advantage in that I’ve been told several times there is just something about my eyes that is intriguing.  I’ve even had one young woman say to me “When you started chatting me up, I actually thought OMG this older dude is going to hit on me.  But there is something about your eyes that is disarming and I couldn’t stop stealing a peek at them.”  So maybe my luck wouldn’t be as good without that.  I don’t know, but whatever works.

56. starthrower68 56

    I think this falls under the category of “because I WANT it”.

57. Tony Whelton 57

    <IMHO>
    I feel for frustrated women in their late 30s/40s, but it’s the way of the world. It’s no secret that Men tend to date younger, and women tend to date older. Whether or not there are kids involved, men have evolved to be attracted to prime reproductive qualities, and women to prime resources and support for the offspring (sorry older guys, you’ve got the resources but being 80 while they’re in college isn’t going to offer much support!). Unless they are absolute rockstars, men in their early 20s have a much more difficult time dating because even if it seemed comfortable to them to date older, the chance that those women are going to want to date him over their slightly older, more mature and financially stable options available to them is fairly small, and dating into the high school scene isn’t really an option either, so the pool of available dates is pretty small. The frustration pays off though, because from the late 20s to 40s the size of the pool of eligible dates explodes. Although the sexual leverage, and therefore dating sway of a women in her 20s is unparalelled, it comes with a much shorter shelf life. Lack of decisiveness regarding willing mates, being too picky about mates lacking ideal qualities (not being willing to ‘settle’, a.k.a. compromise) will most likely end up in a search that extends past the shelf life of their primary leverage, and will probably end up not only in less favorable ‘settling’, but the knowledge that the male is ‘settling’ for them as well.
    The pervasiveness of the prince charming romance fallacy, and the perspective that it’s downright immoral to accept *anything* less than you’re ideal mate, are both things that hurt women. (well, women and men, but women MUCH more-so.) Encourage realistic dating perspectives with the young people you know.
    </IMHO>

58. Chris 58

    One thing you are forgetting i that after 50 there are approximately 3 single women for every 2 single men.  So if over 50 males only go for women close to their own age that will leave a lot of women with no mates.

59. so very true 59

    as a straight man that was married twice at one time, i was a very caring and loving husband that never cheated on them. they both did cheat on me, and i was very committed to them as well. i never did anything wrong to have this happen to me. had i known that they were no good to begin with, i obviously would have never married them.  it seems very hard to meet another woman for me again, on line dating is very scary to me. most of the women out there now are whores and lesbians which does add to the problem of meeting good women today. i hate to talk like this, but it is very true. they play very hard to get, and it seems the ones that do like men have to have as many men at one time to keep them happy.  god forbid, if they would only have one to be with. then their are the lesbians, they are a disease since they only want women to be with. so you should not blame me for being so bitter about women since many of them are pigs today. i just want to meet a good straight woman today, for me it would be like winning the lottery. whatever happened to the good women that were out there years ago? where are they today?  even the ones that seem to be straight, have a very bad attitude and are very nasty when i try to start a conversation with them. either way, i cannot seem to win. being alone and single now, sure sucks for me.  the men out there that have been very lucky to have met the right woman for them and have a family, should go to church to pray and thank god for what they have because it is the men like us that are hurting now and have no one.  this is a good reason why i will go out every night just not to be home by myself, and hope to be at the right place at the right time to meet another hopefully a good woman for me this time around.

60. Pat 60

    As a relatively young female, I have to agree with Evan all the way.  

    When I was in my 20s, I wouldn’t give a man in his 30s (let alone older) a second glance.  It really disgusted me and my friends when they approached us.  Now, in my early 30s, I still have no desire to be with a man in his 40s.  And I haven’t met a single girl in my entire life that wanted to be with a much older man.   NOT ONE!  We want men our own age, plus or minus 5 years.  

    If you are a man in your 40s or 50s and want a woman in her 20s or 30s, you are severely limiting your dating options and you will likely stay single a long, long time.  If you want kids so bad, I suggest finding a woman your own age and adopting an older child (like an 8 – 10 yr old).  I think it is supremely selfish when older men (50s+) want to START having kids.  These men will most likely kick off before the kid is grown!  If you adopt an older kid, it will more likely be grown by the time you die, AND you get to be with a woman your own age that you can actually relate to, AND you’re keeping a kid out of the foster-care system.  Win-win-win!

    Just because a man CAN have kids later in life, doesn’t mean he SHOULD.  It actually DEFIES biology, because in nature the alpha males are often usurped as they age by younger, stronger, healthier males, who become the next generation of alpha males to monopolize the females.  Males don’t usually get to keep fathering offspring into old age.  So not only is it creepy to do so, but it is unnatural.

    And for Jim Peters (#37) and Ted, if you think you can buy a nice, young woman from an underprivileged background in a foreign country, go for it.  But if it ends in divorce after she gets her green card, half your assets, and the hot, young pool boy – you reap what you sow.  

    Thanks, you’ve been a great audience.  :D  

61. queenfluff 61

    I can’t tell you how sick it is for an old dude like this to want someone this young. Why didn’t you think about this when you were younger? And just so you know women in their 40s can have babies too! (what kind of a baby making age range is 36 to 38??? As long as a women is stil having their period they have a chance to have babies). When I was in my 20s, my friends and I always thought it creepy when the old dudes slunk around us at bars. Guys it is just NOT attractive and don’t fool yourself it is. If any super young women goes for it, check how much they want your money (if you have any).

    I am 42 now and no one ever guesses I am my age because I look 10 to 15 years younger than am and secondly, I don’t act old (er). When I was in my 20s and 30s I got tons of dudes emailing me on the online sites – now nothing – even though I honestly have only aged a tad in looks (Honestly that is the truth). I am nice and thin and in better shape than most of the women I meet that are 20s years younger than me. A man my age should have no reason to complain BUT unfortunately it isn’t just about the looks – you could be more gorgeous than the 18 year old walking past you. Some older men are just shallow and honestly, unless the guys profile was completely compatiable with mine, if he was around my age and I saw that shallow and superficial age range of 20 to 45 (and this means a guy my age 42) I know what I am dealing with and won’t even bother.
    17 years younger but only 3 years older – you are not ALL that guy!

    Sometimes I wonder if these men email me because none of the 20 somethings will respond. And most of these men are NOT good looking. Sorry but money isn’t going to get you everything – a younger women still wants to be able to look at you and not think of her dad. I do not want to deal with a man that can’t face reality. Dude you are OLD and getting a younger women isn’t going to change that – I don’t care if they are 12! Why is that some of these men can’t get that through their heads but except us women of the same age to except that WE are getting old and should have to face the fact that most men will not be interested in us (even if we are still super gorgeous as the 20 year olds)? Like it is our faults we got older (hey I would have loved to stay 27 myself!)

    One thing I find hilarous about this whole phenomena is how when these younger-seeking men and I were both in our 20s – I was fine for them to date. Everyone I knew dated people around their own age back than (maybe it was just the times back than?? the 90s) but now all of a sudden I am too old for them – hows that guys? You are just as old as me (sorry for that horrible shot of reality but you are!) I honestly believe these men are just delusional and maybe it is good they are that way so they stay away from me! I don’t want their immature insecure ways around me! I want a guy who has grown up and accepted himself and his age and isn’t looking to live in a fantasy land.

    If I were an older guy like this, I wouldn’t want to end up with a girl so young that she will think me grandpa in a few years time.

62. Ray 62

    I think it is funny that every man over 40 trying to get into the shorts of women in their 20′s and 30′s defaults to the line that they want to have children.

    I’m betting most of the don’t… or would be just fine not having children.  This is just a convenient pick up line for older men wanting some younger tail.

    I see lots of posters like bragging how much younger tail they get, or use scare tactics on women that we need to settle for them… or else.  Naaa.  Things are changing. 

    The dating world is opening up for women of all ages… the ones who take care of themselves and have interesting things to talk about that is.  

    Older men are great for friendships and mentors though…. which is how it should be.  I have many.  The classy ones enjoy my company and that is that.  The crass ones who won’t shut up about wanting to have sex with me, I kick to the curb.  Men who want sex with women young enough to be their daughters are like pedophiles in my book.  Its disgusting.
     

63. FashionMaven 63

    I once went out with a guy who was 11 years older than me.  I’d never dated anyone that much older before.  But I had a good time – it became obvious to me that he was only interested in using me as arm candy… we actually had a conversation at one point that revealed some of my character and suddenly he got very introspective and rather sad.  He actually teared up a bit because he realized that if he’d met me 11 years prior, he’d have married me and been really happy.
     
    It made me wonder what he’d been doing all that time… had he been searching for eye candy for 20+ years and then got surprised when I was *more* than something to hang off his arm?  Had he NEVER met any other women like this?  And I knew for sure he was surrounded by amazing women his own age (these kinds of women were the type that mentored me!).
     
    I guess I’m asking how this guy and maybe “Dale” above got to be 56 or whatever single?  What have they been doing all these years?  And why focus on the young women?  Why not the fabulous women their own age?
     
    I’m not yet 40 – though I’m getting there – when I do, I’d like to hope/think that I’ll have the opportunity to meet men in my age range still!  If not, I guess I have a little time before I cross the barrier.

64. DMC 64

    While I agree with many of the points Evan made, I think he’s glossing over one important factor – Dale wants to have kids, which disqualifies women his own age.  Now maybe this is a negotiable item, but I’m assuming it pretty darn important the way it’s worded.  If so, you are far more asking him to settle than compromise.

    Quite frankly, I think Dale should be looking at younger foreign women.  Then generally tend to favor security and family over the more superficial things like looks and “how we will look as a couple” like American women seem to do.

    I have to say, personally I’ve always found online dating to swing in the favor of men more than women.  It always seemed to me women have to humble themselves a little bit and post a profile, where men are used to putting themselves out there.  That insecurity I always found made women more open and a bit less fickle.

65. DMC 65

    Also, I don’t think it’s unusal at all for an older man to want a younger woman.  Let’s be honest – women tend to have more leverage when they are younger and more beautiful but men tend to as they age and are more sure of themselves and financially secure. 

    @ Ray – we must live in two different world’s hun, b/c 1) I don’t see what you are reporting AT ALL and 2) I think it’s kind of crazy that you would insuiate that women have been held down or kept back in some way when it comes to dating.  The status quo, while changing, has ALWAYS favored women greatly.  I believe that might be personal predjudice talking on your behalf.

    It’s not like he’s looking to date 23 yr old coed bikini models who are full on into the vapid/superficial/party youth phase.  He’s (presumably) talking about mature, adult women.  As you age, the “things in common” gap shrinks.  Mayber it’s taking women longer to grow up these days, I guess….

66. Gabe Asher 66

    @61  I noticed that men will generally date women in their age range up until about 30, then it’s younger from there on out. Women date in their range up until about 22, then look for older dudes UNTIL about 45-50, then they want dudes their own age again. Don’t fight the norm, embrace it and move forward.
    .
    I am on this same program. I am 32, and at this age, women from 17 to 40 are interested in me. I would never choose a woman my age as I have many choices for younger women. My friends and I all agree that we would prefer an average looking teenager who is a “5″ for example, than a 35 yo who is a 9 or 10. Youth trumps looks for most men, let’s kick the ballistics here. We are programed to be attracted to fertil women and a 30 yo woman has spent 81% of her eggs. (not to scare the 30somethings here). All the Radiesse/perlane/botox injections, fat transfers, lip injections, neck/brow lifts, chin implants in the world will help women look better for their age, not younger. Mother nature has given us men an “age radar” that is much more advanced than any surgeons knife.
    .
    A 19 yo woman didn’t think it was creepy for her to date a 30 yo when SHE was 19. Now that she is 45 and single, it is now “creepy”. It’s really not creepy to most of them. It’s an easy excuse to hide their jealousy of another womans youth. I understand that, we hate to age. But don’t hate young women, you were also young too, and had your time to enjoy your youth. Don’t hate on the younger women, pass them the torch and be happy for them, for they are in their prime. Stay positive!

67. sephornet 67

    Ray @ 62: “This is just a convenient pick up line for older men wanting some younger tail.”

    Cosign.

    Gabe Asher @ 66: “A 19 yo woman didn’t think it was creepy for her to date a 30 yo when SHE was 19.”

    I was 18 the first time that a 30-something man hit on me. I could not understand why that old man thought I would be interested in him.

68. Ray 68

    keep in mind that Gabe prefers insecure women.  He’s already solidified his attraction as being primarly predatory… not relationship oriented.  His input is informative if nothing more than helping women learn the ‘tells’ to help avoid men like him in real life. 

    It is my observation that secure people of all ages generally prefer people their own age.  Sure, there are exceptions…  Those who prefer large age ranges generally have some personality issues (mommy/daddy issues).  Can’t be too concerned with them though.   Just avoid them. 

    The good thing about online dating is that it is easy to see a man’s preferred age range and choose not to contact him or respond if it is something whacked out. 
     
      Those men aren’t looking for character and compatibility (as Gabe routinely demonstrates).  You don’t want them.

     

69. Ray 69

    DMC@64

    Sorry… it is time Dale accept that he is past his prime as a suitable father.  If he really gave a damn about kids and sincerely wanted to make a difference in a child’s life, he wouldn’t mind adopting or helping a woman he cares about raise the children she already has.  Which is why I believe his intentions are not genuine.  He just wants a younger woman and this is the preferred ‘hook’.  More for his ego than starting a family.  Total BS. 

    There are some new studies that show that older men’s sperm contribute to birth defects.  It’s not just the women who have to worry about their genetic material getting ‘old’.    

70. SS 70

    Gabe, just speaking from my own perspective, I was approached by 30-year-old men when I was 18… and approached by a 36-year-old when I was 21. And then by a 42-year-old man when I was 25. And then, by a 50-year-old when I was 29. I told all of them that they were too old for me. (And yes, I found them creepy.)
    All of them were rather miffed when I said they were too old for me, and spent time trying to convince me that they could better understand me than a man my own age, that I was foolish to pass them up, that if men my own age were so great, why was I still single, etc., etc…. it was rather interesting how bothered they were that I said no, and that I specifically cited their age as a reason. Did they expect that I would fall at their feet simply because I was younger? It’s interesting how upset they got… did they buy into the idea so often spread that their dating pools get larger as they get older and that they could get all of the young women they wanted?
    I ended up marrying a man who was 6 years older than me. That was a safe enough age difference for both of us… did he want a somewhat younger woman for fertility reasons? Sure… but someone who could still relate to him when he had a discussion about growing up in the 1980s and going to college in the 1990s.
    And as for fertility, it does decline the older a woman gets, that is certainly true. I also wouldn’t want to be one to wait until I was 40 to start having babies either. But most women in their early 30s don’t have fertility problems either (at least, not looking at all the growing bellies from early 30s women in my women’s volunteer group and from my former co-workers who are about 30-34)… and this something my husband understood when he pursued me… and so far, he’s been proven correct. With 81% of my eggs gone and all. 
    I know you want what you want Gabe, and I’m not here to harangue you over your desires in women. But I’m just going to say that if you’re going to tell women how we supposedly felt about dating older men when we were 19, then it’s better to hear it straight from our mouths… and yes, you can count me as one of those women who thought it was quite creepy and had no hesitation telling those men exactly how I felt about that.

71. Nicole 71

    Well, as for the egg argument, maybe Gabe wants to date even younger “women” for save measure since a woman loses about 70% of her eggs by puberty.

    So if you want to go for the numbers argument, then why not date 12 years olds?  

     

72. Ren 72

    Men really are disconnected from reality.  Evan if you haven’t done so already, can you address on your blog why men are so disconnected when it comes to what they want and what they deserve and what’s really available to them?

    As I read this all I could do is shake my head.  I’ve been hit up by plenty of older men online and they really can’t grasp the concept of why a woman in her 30′s would not be attracted to a man in his 50′s or 60′s, as if it’s so foreign.    

73. Michael17 73

    Ren #72:
     
    I am a guy in my late 30′s–successful, well-educated, never married, no kids. I get my share of emails from women who have young kids, are “separated”, and many of these women aren’t that pretty and have a low income. Now, really. WHY would be even remotely interested in dating someone with all that baggage? Did these women stop to think about all this before they took the time to write me?
     
    Now, do these emails mean that women are disconnected from reality though?
     
    Now in real life, there are men in their 50′s dating women in their 30′s. It’s not a crazy pairing. Many older men appreciate a younger woman’s physical vitality, and many younger women appreciate an older guy’s experience and wisdom. I doagree with you that online isn’t the place to make something like that happen.
     
     
     

74. Katarina Phang 74

    Gabe #66, speak for yourself.  There’s no doubt that many guys have “fetish” for much younger gals simply because of the age factor and nothing more.  But there are many guys who are very attracted to much older attractive women too (or women their age).

    If porn is any indication, how much MILF genre lovers out there?  And how much hotter these women are compared to a 20′s? 

    It’s mostly not about age but how one takes care of him/herself.  I still got hit by much younger guys on a daily basis in my 40′s now.  And I can be attracted to a 56 yo if he takes good care of himself (though whether or not we are compatible in other ways is another story).

    I agree with Ren, men who think it’s a given that much younger women will be attracted to them on the virtue of their “wisdom and experience” are delusional. Not every middle-aged guy has George Clooney charm.  Most are sloppy looking.

    But the younger a woman is the more sensitive she is to an “old age” appearance.  When I was 25, most 35-40 old guys sounded (and perhaps looked) so old, too old for my liking.  I couldn’t date a guy who was close to my dad in terms of age and appearance (and my dad is only 21 years older than me).

    These days I have far more tolerance about wrinkles/older look appearance but it’s only because I have grown so much and know looks are only a small part that makes relationship work even if it’s still very important.  I won’t be attracted to most 30′s, 40′s or 50′s (or even 20′s) guys but it’s not because of their age but because I don’t feel physical attraction.  

75. Katarina Phang 75

    I have a decent looking Asian male friend in his late 30′s who thinks that a 25 yo is an ideal future wife for him.  Problem is 25 yo women aren’t interested in him and even if they are the chance for the relationship to work is perhaps slim to none.

    I kept telling him to find a woman in her 30′s (or in his own age range).  He’s still looking -and is still drawn to women in their early to mid 20′s- and keeps complaining how lonely he is.

76. so very true 76

    it is the women that are just too picky today, when it comes to men. they are waiting for a prince on a white horse to come and sweep them off their feet. what a case. it is bad enough that women today are so very nasty, with their rotten no good attitude problem which makes it worse. this is the absolute reason, why us straight men are having a difficult time meeting a good woman today. cannot blame ourselves, since they changed so very badly today.

77. Kakay 77

    One time I was at one of my local hangout patio bars where 20-30 something professionals and students hang out. These two old men had to be in their late 70′s. This was about 5 years ago, I had to be about 27 I am 31 now. My friend who was with me was 22, and her guy friend was about 26. These two old men who were probably in their mid to late 70′s were hanging out in the bar. I remember thinking to myself, “ew they are older than my dad and they are hanging out in here?” I went to the bar to get a drink, and they offered to buy me a drink. I politely decline and said I would get own. I got my beer and walked away to sit with my friends. About two minutes later, I felt strange hands on my shoulders and turned around and literally freaked out and yelled “don’t f**king touch me!” I scared them so bad they left the bar immediately. I think I even spouted out “go home to your wives jeez!”
    I agree that it comes across as pedophilia to me. I mean how young did they like them when they were my age? Were they creeping around the high schools? Junior high? I mean really?!
    Lately I have been hit on younger men, anywhere from 24 to 27. But even 24 is only 7 years age difference. I agree that around 24 or 25 there isn’t too much to talk about for too long because of a maturity gap, but I have gone out with someone 4 years younger than me. At 31, 27 or 28 year old men are pretty much on the same level as I am. There isn’t much of a difference. Even 25 I would give a chance to. We still like to do the same things, and can find common interests. I am not the “older woman”. So even though the men are younger, yeah I would say that I still have enough in common.
    But what on earth makes grandpa think that women of “daughter’s age” want to sleep with their fathers? Give it up Dale, and figure out what it is you missed in your youth that is causing you to be attracted to women that young. You might need some therapy and work some issues out, and that desire will fade away once you can connect with someone from your own generation.

78. Michael 78

    I’m 44 and only date women in their 20s.  It’s easy.  How do I do it?  Stay OFF THE INTERNET DATING sites.  Meet people in real life.  The same girls who would brush me off as a creep on OKCupid think absolutely nothing of the age difference when they meet me in real life and see how interesting and vital I am.  26 year old girls hop in my bed ALL THE TIME and half of them fall totally in love with me.

79. susan 79

    Fascinating topic. I have a friend who is dating a woman 20 years younger than him (shes 23), another dating a girl 13 years younger (shes 30) and i recently dated a man 13 years older than me. Another friend has been with her man for 10 years and he’s 17 years younger than her (he was 23 when they met you do the math). Are any less feasible than the others? i don’t think so, is long as everyone is on the same page. And although Michaels comment is just CREEPY, he’s right, by meeting in real life you get a better view of the whole person than a dating site.
    My question is though, if the SAME GIRLS would brush him off as a creep on a site, why on earth are they ok with dating someone with that age gap in real life? sounds to me like they are oncers.otherwise he would be in a relationship by now.

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