Why Are Women More Negative About Dating Than Men?

If you read the comments on this blog regularly, you can probably draw some false conclusions about dating.

Men are pigs. Men are liars. Men are flakes. Men are commitmentphobes. Men are selfish. Men are abusive. Men only want sex. Men are irresponsible.

As a man who’s none of these things – and don’t associate with other such men -  I take great umbrage at these consistent accusations about what’s wrong with guys. It’s not that there are no men that are like this, but rather that there are so many men who aren’t like this as to render this “discussion” about what’s wrong with guys moot.

My friend, Moxie, a prominent dating blogger and fellow truth-teller, agrees with me. As a 40-year-old woman, she’s been through her share of heartbreak, but when she steps back and takes an objective look at the dating behaviors of women, 35-45, she sees something else entirely. Men are pretty even-keeled about the ups and downs of dating. Women, on the other hand, are extremely negative.

Says Moxie, “They don’t write articles about the dearth of “good” women. They don’t blog about their love/sex lives. They don’t bemoan their bad dates on Twitter or Facebook. They have nothing to prove. They don’t defend their choice to stay single. They don’t have disclaimers or requirements beyond “Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass.”

Yep, that sounds about right.

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

So what is it that makes women more negative about the dating process than men?

If I were to tender a guess, it’s for a few reasons:

1. The biological imperative of childbearing. That ticking clock gets louder and creates an undue sense of pressure to not “waste time” on the wrong men.

2. Oxytocin. It’s biologically more difficult for women to have unattached sex without emotion and bonding. Thus, women get hurt by passionate flings more than men.

3. Societal expectations. I think there’s a ton of reinforcement from women and women’s magazines that one should be married with children. Men aren’t as consumed by relationships, in general.

4. Communication styles. Men aren’t encouraged to talk about their feelings, so even if they are lonely and pining for a relationship, you won’t hear them complain or rail on the opposite sex as much. There are certainly a lot fewer male dating bloggers, relationship columnists, and dating coaches (apart from the pick-up artist crowd).

5. Expectations. I think this is the big one. Men understand that rejection is part of the process. We ask for numbers, get turned down. Write to women online, get turned down. Lean in for the first kiss, get turned down. At a certain point, we realize that this is just how the world works. You win some, you lose some. I don’t think most women are as inured to failure as men – which makes the failures all the more intolerable, leads to prolonged dating hiatuses, and proclamations that there are “no good men out there”.

And if you’ve been reading this and bristling at Moxie’s observation that perhaps women are more negative about dating than men, consider this:

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

I don’t think it’s because women are better than men. I think it’s because women are more vocal about male shortcomings.

Click here to read the original article. Please share your thoughts below.

8
9

Join 5 Million Readers

And the thousands of women I've helped find true love. Sign up for weekly updates for help understanding men.

I hate spam as much as you do, therefore I will never sell, rent, or give away your email address.

Join our conversation (272 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1
    Tina

    There are alot of negative men out there.  Just look at Tom Leykis and his fan base. There are blogs that are anti single mom and they can be brutal.  There are forums where the guys post women’s match profiles and enjoy tearing apart these women.  

    I find this behavior disturbing and for that reason alone I will not use dating websites.  I don’t want my profile posted somewhere and I’m not interested in being pursued for sex because that is the only thing single moms are good for.

    On the flip side – I would agree women are in general more negative about dating and negative about men. I used to beextremely anti-male because that was the way I was raised.  To this day my mother insists men are dumb and useless.  I have counter argued with her in many occasion and she will not open her eyes to the possibilty that their are a lot of great men in the world.

  2. 2
    Christina

    Actually, I HAVE heard more than one man claim that there are no good women out there, but I think those guys are probably (hopefully) in the minority. 

    It does make sense that there is more desperation/time pressure on the parts of women who feel they MUST do the marriage/children thing by a certain age. Too bad that the intense negativity is exactly the opposite of what they need to do in order to attract the right man.

    In my experience, a lot of the really negative women are those who constantly have bad experiences, but never look to themselves to change anything about the men they feel attracted to, or the way they’re handling dating and relationships. 

    Sure, there are some real jerks out there, but the majority of men I’ve met my whole life have been pretty decent, and a lot of them are great. If you’re only dating the low-quality guys, you’re doing something wrong. 

  3. 3
    Helen

    Evan, your own male commenters on this blog disprove the point of this entry.

    I am not going to embarrass any male individual commenters by listing their screen names, but:

    1. You write: ‘I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.’ Not so long ago, a number of guys were posting to several of your entries about how spoiled and entitled all women are. Several who didn’t say “all women” in general would instead target “Western women” or “American women,” and then recommend getting women from Russia or the third world. Surely you remember these. They’ve cropped up numerous times here, most recently just a few weeks ago. 

    2. Your friend Moxie writes: “They don’t bemoan their bad dates on Twitter or Facebook. They have nothing to prove. They don’t defend their choice to stay single.” I can’t speak for what these guys write on Twitter or Facebook, but on your page, these men HAVE dished about bad dates. But I don’t see why that is such a bad thing in the first place. Moreover, at least one guy has defended his choice to stay single. I’ve had some debates with that very guy on your blog, but on this topic, I respect his choice as I would the choice of anyone to stay single, male or female.

    3. Your friend Moxie writes that men only want: ““Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass.”‘ Believe it or not, I think some MEN here would object to Moxie’s characterization of all that men want from women – many of our decent and sympathetic male commenters.

    I’m sorry – I’m sure you meant well, but I don’t think this particular entry is well-justified. Let’s not even get into the “biological imperative of childbearing”…
     

  4. 4
    Samatha

    Why are women more negative about dating than men? The question should be: why not? Are men even aware of what we have to go through?? Men are shallow (how many times have I heard ”If men could only date supermodels they would”). If you’re not a blonde 5’10 Victoria’s Secret supermodel, you don’t get a chance. As a short brunette, I know what it’s like to not get any attention… And what about cheating?? Guys cheat so much and so shamelessly it’s scary. I recently saw Amber Rose’s interview on Wendy Williams Show and Kirstie Alley’s interview on Ellen and it surprised how both of them just don’t trust men after being heart-broken so many times. Maybe if guys weren’t the jerks they are and if most of them were really as good as Evan says they are, women wouldn’t complain. Just sayin’.

  5. 5
    Trenia

    Men don’t need to be vocal about women’s shortcomings in dating because it’s already embedded in our society, and you see it everyday in newspapers, on TV, in porn, politics, everywhere you look there is a negative charge against women. Women are constantly sized up by their appearance. Michelle Obama has a law degree from Harvard and the only thing that media and news pundits talk about is whether or not to give her latest outfit a thumbs up or down.
    I would also venture to say that if everywhere you turn women are talking about how awful men are and how horrible dating is, maybe there’s something to it, if that many people are complaining about the same thing. But what happens is women’s complaints about men and relationships get poo pooed as not being important or we’re told men are rational and we’re being irrational. And if a woman comes along and agrees with what men have been saying, everything that the rest of the group has been saying and complaining about gets thrown out the window as not being important.
    I don’t believe all men are bad, but you have to take into consideration that many women have dealt with really horrible relationships, and I’m not just talking about getting dumped, I’m talking about the really horrible things like rape and abuse, much of these acts being perpetrated by the ones who are often called “the good guys”. All of this shapes a woman’s dating experience and it comes out in the way many of us express our concerns and frustrations about men and dating. I wish that women could detach from relationships as easily as some men do, but that’s not the way it is, we hold on and stew until we’re over it. But instead of allowing us the space to go through that process, we’re punished and told we’re wrong for it.
    So now you have an entire group of women who want to be loved and in committed partnership before all of their eggs expire, on top of all of the other aforementioned issues. It’s complicated and frustrating and most of us are just looking for a beacon of light to say things are going to work out, just relax and enjoy your life until love comes.

  6. 6
    sarahrahrah!

    I mostly agree with the assessment here and I would also throw in the fact that women are mentally more socially-oriented than men.  Other hormonal influences such as estrogen make women more sensitive and vulnerable in relationships than say testosterone.
     
    I think there have also been some shifting social mores in the past 40 or so years which have  created cognitive dissonance surrounding women’s expectations for marriage.  In the past (my parent’s generation), women could assume with some certainty that if they married and had children with a man that she could count on him staying married to her for the rest of his life.  Now, this is no longer an accurate assumption and I think this creates more vulnerability around dating and marriage issues. 
     
    As a 41-year-old single mother, I agree that dating healthy, compatible men can seem like a difficult prospect.  It does seem like you are judged as the bottom of the proverbial barrel.  Chances are that women in the 35-45 category have had more disappointments than a younger person and therefore are more likely to be cynical, less trusting and possibly still angry.  The key for me to avoid feeling negative has been to take myself out of the barrel.  In other words, online dating wasn’t working so I explored other avenues for meeting people and I am happy with where that journey has taken me.  I also have tried to cultivate gratitude and service in my life, which helps me from focusing on the glass half empty and remembering that it is half (and more) full on the vast majority of days.

  7. 7
    Ruby

    Sorry, EMK, but while your bog is directed towards women, I have read many incredibly negative comments here from male posters. I think that complaining about the opposite sex for men is still considered whiny and unmanly. Men don’t like to admit they are having trouble with women and need help. 
     
    And while I haven’t necessarily heard that “there are no good women out there”, I’ve certainly heard,” there are no good American women out there”, and men should look for more submissive women from other, usually more disadvantaged, countries. I am not seeing women, despite their complaints, rushing to other countries to seek out foreign men.
     
    I do agree with you that women are often more vocal and open when it comes to ranting about the opposite sex, but just give men a forum (like this one) to do the same, and you’ll hear plenty of negatives, and plenty of stereotypes. I’ve been amazed at how many men have posted that any woman over thirty is yesterday’s news, that a woman’s place is in the home raising babies (so it’s not just coming from women’s mags), “advice” from the PUA crowd that focuses on using and discarding women, and so on.
     
     

    1. 7.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Ruby,

      You’re conflating two different things. You’re saying that you don’t like men’s preferences in women. The fact that they like younger, subservient, and easy, for example. I’m not defending their point of view, but it’s different than them saying that women suck, there are no good women, they’re giving up on dating, and consistently ranting about it.

      This is not to say that there are no men like that at all, but rather that the more gender-based complaints from women about men. Sure enough, some women are already enforcing this stereotype that men are the problem. Sigh.

      That’s because you date men. If you dated women, they would be the ones breaking your heart.

      In other words, I think the dating game gives equal opportunity for heartbreak but that women seem to have overall worse impressions of the opposite sex.

      Do you disagree with that assertion?

  8. 8
    Sad Bitch

    I was used for money by a man who was full of shit. Very few men and women seem to have integrity. Maybe that was always the case. I would say though that men are very simple and mostly stupid when it comes to relationships. In fact I would say in my experience they need a good coach.

  9. 9
    Karl R

    Christina said: (#2)
    “I HAVE heard more than one man claim that there are no good women out there, but I think those guys are probably (hopefully) in the minority.”

    I have also heard multiple men say this. They are in the minority.

    And these are also the men who have unreasonable expectations. They asked three women out. They were turned down all three times. They’re about ready to give up.

    The majority realize that that’s a normal batting average. But if you refuse to play the game, you never win.

    Samatha said: (#3)
    “Are men even aware of what we have to go through??”

    Are you aware of what men go through?

    That’s a rhetorical question, Samatha. Based on the rest of what you wrote, it’s completely obvious that you have less understanding of men than Evan has (or I have) about women.

    You rage about how men don’t understand your point of view (something you have no power to change). Other women (and men) do their best to educate themselves so they better understand the opposite sex’s point of view (something which they have the power to do).

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    The courage to change the things I can,
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    We’ve heard this so often that it has become trite. We no longer listen to what the words mean.

    You’re ranting about the things you can’t change.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “I would also venture to say that if everywhere you turn women are talking about how awful men are and how horrible dating is, maybe there’s something to it, if that many people are complaining about the same thing.”

    Dating is rough on everyone. Does it get better when you complain about how horrible it is?

    Most men/women will be a poor match as a couple. They may be decent people, but they’re awful partners. Do they somehow become better matches when you complain about them?

    Let me describe a hypothetical man to you:
    You hear him say, “Every woman I date is either conceited, a complete flake, or a psychotic nutcase. Every time I finish a date, I want to shoot myself, shoot my date, or both.”

    Do you want to date this man?

    He doesn’t sound pleasant. He doesn’t sound happy. He doesn’t even sound safe. Any halfway-decent woman knows she has better options.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “we hold on and stew until we’re over it. But instead of allowing us the space to go through that process, we’re punished and told we’re wrong for it”

    Smart men vent their frustrations privately. Less successful men vent their frustrations on a first date, then wonder why she doesn’t want a second date.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “most of us are just looking for a beacon of light to say things are going to work out, just relax and enjoy your life until love comes.”

    If I believed that, I’d still be playing video games every night and waiting for love to come.

    Dating takes a bit more effort. Change the things you can. That’s what empowers you.

  10. 10
    Ruby

    EMK #9
     
    I’m saying that men complain about women all the time; she isn’t young enough, subservient enough, didn’t have sex soon enough, or whatever it is. What are these complaints that you’re referring to, if not gender-based? What’s the difference if a man is saying that all women over 30 or all American women suck?
     
    As far as Moxie’s quote, They don’t have disclaimers or requirements beyond ‘Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass’”, I think that might be a tad simplistic for many men. At least I hope so.
     
    We still live in a patriarchal culture that favors white men, so no, I’m not surprised that women complain more.
     
    What Trenia #5 said.
     
     

  11. 11
    sthrnphoenix

    I disagree with a couple of the comments.  We are on the internet.  If you don’t think that a misogynistic jerk who just wants to rile up a bunk of women would find a site that offers dating advice to strong, smart, successful women an inviting target, you are burying your head in the sand.  Of course there are male commentors making ridiculously ugly statements.  Based on the grammar of some of them, I would guess they are not American.  Based on some of the inflammatory comments of a couple of others, I would guess they are just your run of the mill asses.  They make up a very small portion of the male population as a whole.  We really can’t base our opinions of all men based upon a few bitter men that are looking to cause trouble.  What about the men who comment with well though out opinions?  The ones not trying to cause trouble or tick off every woman he comes across but is instead presenting a man’s point of view?  Do we just forget them? 
    I am a short, 37 year old single mom with a particularly nasty relationship behind me.  My ex-husband was abusive, my divorce was incredibly horrible, and I haven’t received a dime in child support since August of 2009.  If any woman can be bitter and disappointed, I think I qualify.  Yet, I don’t judge all men by my ex.  I still assume most men are good and decent.  I don’t have a problem getting a date.  And I don’t have to deal with a bunch of men who think the only thing I’m good for is sex.  Mostly because I put on a smile, keep positive, and kick the jerks to the curb once they exhibit the truly bad traits.  My reward for all of that has been that I have been in a relationship with a terrific man who makes me feel loved and appreciated for almost a year now.  We don’t have to date someone we are repulsed by, or that has horrible habits, or that treats us like garbage.  We just have to be truly open to meeting him, let him show us why he’s a great catch, and show him why we’re a great catch too.

  12. 12
    Jewel

    I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

    No, but I’ve heard the phrase uttered from the mouths of many men ” women are crazy, psycho bitches….”  

    I can’t tell you the amount of men on online dating sites that comment when talking with me on the phone, about how normal I seem, and feel the need to mention that I don’t sound crazy. Seems every woman is crazy but me!

    Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. There is a lot of truth in them, which is why they live on in both genders.

  13. 13
    Jewel

    PS Viva la difference :)

  14. 14
    Ashley

    EXCELLENT points, sthrnphoenix(#12).  I agree with you 100%.  If we look for jerks, we will find them. If we look for good men, we will find them.  Period.

  15. 15
    Helen

    Ruby 11: agreed. I have to say, I’m not sure what the point of this article was. It seems deliberately and artificially divisive, making false dichotomies between men and women. And Moxie’s comments are just flippant; they don’t really add anything to the argument.

    The truth of the matter is, some people are positive and some people are negative; it doesn’t split along gender lines. This blog and its readers are proof of that.

  16. 16
    Agree!

    I’ve seen this article before and I definitely agree with it… I think many women today price themselves out of the market OR they have a Huuugeee list for the men they date and don’t consider whether they themselves can provide any of those things.

    The other end of the spectrum is women who have such low self-esteem and are so effed in the head that they believe they don’t deserve good things and thus, stay with losers. 

     What Ruby (#7) said about men complaning there are no good American women is also true to an extent. I’m an American women but I’ve been to a lot of others countries in Europe and have traveled to the Caribbean, Argentina and Israel and well.. women in other countries just don’t face the same pressures that we do and thus are so obsessed with “achieving” and doing it all or being it all. They’re a lot less…. umm shall we say neurotic. 

    Here in the U.S., it seems that women are generally split into two: too much self-esteem and expectations or too little. *Sigh* 

  17. 17
    nathan

    As a man who spends a lot of time reading, writing, and talking about dating and relationships, I see plenty of evidence that bitching and moaning is a two way street. It’s just that far fewer men are broadcasting their crap through dating blogs and dating forums, other than PUA sites, some of which are filled with obnoxious. 
     
    What I find interesting about these kinds of posts is that they are basically a set up. If you disagree, and you are a member of the group being attacked, then it’s used as evidence in support of the original argument. And of you a member of the group being upheld, you could say something that disproves the argument, but you will be simply dismissed as an “individual bad apple.” Or an “exception.”
     
    Frankly, dating isn’t that easy these days for a lot of reasons. And the majority of “good people” go through periods of complaining, feeling horribly negative about the opposite sex, and the rest. I actually doubt that many of us could honestly say we haven’t been through periods like this, even the most confident and healthy amongst us.

  18. 18
    Jules

    Jewel #14:  Totally agree.  I’ve heard so many men describe their exes as “psycho bitches.”  It’s a big red flag.  Rarely is a relationship breakup that simple.  Really, they had no part in it, it was all her fault because she was a psycho bitch?  

    When I’m reading an online profile and it says “NO DRAMA!!” (and it’s always in all caps with multiple exclamation points) I move along to the next one.  I would guess, conservatively, that 50% of the men’s profiles I read flat out say NO DRAMA or NO GAME PLAYERS or something similar.  And yeah, I’ve read other women’s profiles and lots of them say something like “NO LIARS, CHEATERS OR GAME PLAYERS” The negativity is so unattractive, no matter which sex it’s coming from.  

  19. 19
    david

    Expectations — I Think EMK hit on the head with that one — two of my closest girlfriends — one is 42, the other is 44, have put themselves on these 2+ year dating hiatus because of heartbreak, disappointment, lack of good prospects, etc. And me (a guy) I just move on — the cost of doing business. Sure, there are flakes and siocipaths and dick teasers and attention vampire suckers but then there are awesome people I met I end up being buddies with (actually both of the two listed above)

    I never say (or have heard) “There are no good women out there” because we see our guy’s friends wives or girlfriends…they did it….

  20. 20
    Desdenova

    @ Ruby #11
     
    You are missing the point of the article.  A casual glance at an online dating website at men’s headlines I very much doubt we’ll see the complaints you deem common such as “only subservient women apply” and “are all the easy women taken?” No doubt there will be a few general complaints along the lines of “normal only please!”
     
    However, MANY women openly advertise their dating frustrations on these very sites which they want to get dates…which seems counterproductive to me.
     
    It’s not that men don’t complain about their dating experiences. They do. It’s that on the whole, they just aren’t nearly as loud about it in public forums as women.

  21. 21
    vee

    To Agree #17:  I’m from the Philippines and have been lurking here for months. Believe it or not us women on the other side of the world do experience this difficulty dealing and dating with men. No difference at all. :)

  22. 22
    Ruby

    Desdenova #21
    <<A casual glance at an online dating website at men’s headlines I very much doubt we’ll see the complaints you deem common such as “only subservient women apply” and “are all the easy women taken?”>>
     
    I don’t read the men’s headlines on online dating websites, but I’ve certainly read plenty of complaints by men on this particular blog, as well as in the article referenced by EMK.

  23. 23
    Ruby

    And interesting that when women comment on the opposite sex, it’s a “complaint”, but when men comment, it’s a “preference.”

  24. 24
    Fiona

    I have been reading this blog and was almost buying into it until suddenly I realised what Evan is saying (paraphrasing):

    As a 36 year old professional you should realise that men value youth over intelligence or success when they want children. Therefore you should accept that men don’t think you are valuable and and start dating older men less attractive, intelligent and successful than yourself or you will be alone. And when you do date these men much older (if you are not already totally depressed by having to), don’t forget to ask yourself:

    “Do you go out of your way to make sure that each man who goes out with you has a positive experience? Do you make men feel good about themselves when they take you out?”

    Evan with this sort of advice Is it any wonder that women are so negative about dating? You have more or less told them they aren’t going to be valued by an equal but should pander to every whim of an unequal or be alone. It is a bit like saying someone with a law degree should stop trying for a law career when times are hard and focus on a career as a waitress and don’t complain about it. No-one in their right minds would be proposing that!

    I would suggest ladies that if this is true, you are better off alone! I know that it hurts and i know it is lonely (I know I am) but is having a partner for the sake of it going to make life better? Are you not just going to be lonely but lonely with someone else? Isn’t that actually worse?

    Evan would be doing the world a better service if he focused on sorting out the issues of those men in their 30s who won’t date their natural biological mates (single women in their 30s) after a decade of not being ready to marry in their 20s…rather than telling all the women it is all your own fault that you are single which doesn’t really help because, despite evidence to the contrary which suggests that men in their late 30s if they are still bachelors are unlikely to marry anyone, it is myth that commitment phobes exists….oh really?

    Girls, it is not your fault that you are single. It happens!

  25. 25
    Tash

    I think from my own experiences women tend to go by feelings & emotions too much in their selection of dates. Most men & women make the mistake of rushing in too soon, for men they want the physical, for women they want the emotional connection. Both parties tend to jump right in boots & all with out taking the time to really examine their prospective partner closely. Then they realise what they have is not what they want. Men quickly just move on to the next prospect with out looking at their formula which gave them lousy results & women get hurt & express that hurt & blame the men also with out examining their approach that gave them too lousy results also.

    It takes 2 to tango! But yeah women are more apt to express their experiences & men are more likely to take their feelings & experiences to the grave. lol 

  26. 26
    Maria

    Evan said: [To Ruby] “In other words, I think the dating game gives equal opportunity for heartbreak but that women seem to have overall worse impressions of the opposite sex. Do you disagree with that assertion?”

    Forgive me for jumping in. Yes, I disagree with this assertion. We live in a patriarchal, misogynistic society. In addition to your garden variety  heartbreak that everyone may get with dating, women also face the risk of being physically hurt, violated, brutalized and traumatized for life. Even for women who have not experienced these things, the undercurrent of fear is always there.

    What’s more, because of the influence of porn, men have expectations of engaging sexually with women in a demeaning way. My last boyfriend (an otherwise nice guy, intelligent and so shy that at 26 he had in me his first girlfriend) got angry at me because during sex, and without any previous discussion about it, or lubrication, he attempted to penetrate me anally and I stopped him (as nicely as I could). He left me on the couch without a word and went to bed, gave me the silent treatment for the rest of the night. 

    Dating, for women, is a medium to high risk activity where our personal safety is at stake. Forgive us for being a bit more high-strung about the whole thing.  We lower our defenses, strategize to maintain a reasonable level of safety, manage risk as best we can in order to engage with strange men on the dating scene. Many of these men, instead of honoring and cherishing us, and doing everything possible to make us feel safe and protected, choose to give us the runaround, play games, try to use us for booty calls when we have already discussed that we are looking for a relationship, etc. 

    It is not an equal opportunity game, Evan, don’t kid yourself. Have you ever stopped to think whether you were safe or not when going out with a woman? Women have to think about that all the time. The numbers game men play doesn’t quite work for us because with each stranger’s car we jump into, the risk of being raped or killed increases. 

  27. 27
    Zaq

    I know Evan doesn’t buy into this, but I support the women’s views here.
    It IS easier for men to say there are plenty of good women, because they are biologically programmed to be attracted to as many females as possible.

    Women are not. They only want the best. This is a biological imperative that they find hard to overcome. However it IS their problem, because there is nothing for men to do about it.

    Yes, men do talk about foreign women, but only because the local variety aren’t interested (read my stuff on Norwegian men)

     

  28. 28
    Nadia

    I agree that women are typically more critical than men, probably because we’re more verbal. (But I also suspect we are also more effusive about what makes us happy than men are.) So in the spirit of proving my own point, I will say, I would love to find a man who enjoys going down, can pay his own bills, takes good care of himself, and who isn’t a pain in the ass. But that seems like a lot to ask for from my experience. 

  29. 29
    Helen

    Nadia 27: “I would love to find a man who enjoys going down, can pay his own bills, takes good care of himself, and who isn’t a pain in the ass.”

    Ha ha ha! :D  Good point.  Men’s and women’s wishes aren’t so different after all. 

    1. 29.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I’m popping in here on Sunday because after spending 6am-9am alone with the baby, I need some good, adult conversation about how men are rapists.

      At least that’s what you’d get from Maria’s post. The constant threat of physical pain, rape, trauma, safety and murder is the reason that women are more negative about dating. To this, I have two things to say.

      First of all, there’s no making light of pain, rape, trauma and murder. Men are the ones perpetrating these crimes on women. If you’re a woman who has been victimized, I feel terrible for you – and would remind you something you already know intellectually – rapists are an extremely small percentage of men. Most of us would never consider violence under any circumstances. As hard as it is to learn to trust, it’s imperative. The next innocent man who you date has nothing to do with the man who hurt you.

      Second of all, when Moxie and I were talking about the negativity of dating, we were both alluding to the dimestore variety of heartbreaks and dating mishaps. In nine years of coaching women on successful dating, I’ve spent a grand total of zero minutes listening to women’s complaints about physical threats and about 10,000 hours listening to complaints about men who don’t call, who don’t commit, who don’t like them, who disappoint them, etc. So factoring out the danger factor – since it hasn’t come up in any of my conversations – I maintain that women’s reactions to dating disappointment is disproportionately greater than men’s.

      Next, to Ruby, to whom this post seems to really have struck a chord. Complaints and preferences are just language. But don’t kid yourself for a moment – there IS a difference between “I’d prefer a man who was financially stable” to “I HATE unemployed men.” One is a positive expression of what you’re looking for, one is a negative expression. A man who says that he prefers a woman who is feminine, optimistic, confident, understanding and self-aware is not saying, “I hate women who are negative, argumentative, bossy, insecure and clueless about how men think” (although that can certainly be implied). So while our issues are semantic, the practical application is not. I’m not defending men who say, “Women are crazy, emotional golddiggers,” I’m saying there are fewer men like that than women who say, “All men are pigs and liars. I’m giving up on dating. There are no good ones left”. We can disagree. Just know that this is my profession and I’m not saying this (obviously) to pick fights or ingratiate myself to women. I’m saying this because I believe it to be true and think perhaps we can all learn from a perspective shift.

      Which brings me to Fiona, who has earnestly misread me in the same way that so many others have. If you choose to read this blog or if you choose to read my book Why He Disappeared, it will be clearer to you how I’ve never said the things you’ve suggested I’ve said. Do men value youth and beauty? Yes. Do men value intelligence? Yes. Do men value success? Not as much. When it comes time for a man to have children, does it make more sense for him to chose a 45-year-old or a 25-year-old? I think the answer is obvious. But that’s not the real twist you put on my words – you suggested that women would have to disavow who they are and pander to older men in order to find love. Never said that. Not even once. Unless you think it’s mutually exclusive for a smart, strong, successful woman to be sexy, thoughtful, supportive, patient and nurturing (which are characteristics that men hold dear). Personally, I find that most of my clients can manage the trick, which is why they so often walk away from our time together with relationships. So please, stop throwing stones when my job is to help, not hurt women. I’m a coach for women. I help them understand how good men think. If you want to be a coach to help men, since men are the problem, be my guest. I think you’ll struggle to get your business off the ground – which is genuinely one of the biggest problems with men. They don’t want to change.

      Finally, Nadia and Helen – Is it so wrong to want a man who is cute, sane, easygoing and virile? I don’t think so. Men just figured this one out a long time ago.

  30. 30
    Ruby

    EMK
     
    Yes, it’s true that rapists are a small minority of men, physical and emotional abusers are a small minority of men, but they are out there, and it’s often very difficult to distinguish who might be abusive or even dangerous in the early stages of dating. It’s also of those things you think could never happen to you…until it does. This is one of the reasons that I’ve learned to take my time when getting to know someone.
     
    As I said earlier, men just aren’t as vocal about their heartbreaks and dating issues as women are – it’s still considered unmanly and weak. That’s why I enjoy reading the posts by Nathan, Karl R, and a few others, who don’t seem to reflect the negative views of many of the men who comment here; even if I don’t always agree with them, they are reasoned, thoughtful, and fair.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>