Why Are Women More Negative About Dating Than Men?

If you read the comments on this blog regularly, you can probably draw some false conclusions about dating.

Men are pigs. Men are liars. Men are flakes. Men are commitmentphobes. Men are selfish. Men are abusive. Men only want sex. Men are irresponsible.

As a man who’s none of these things – and don’t associate with other such men –  I take great umbrage at these consistent accusations about what’s wrong with guys. It’s not that there are no men that are like this, but rather that there are so many men who aren’t like this as to render this “discussion” about what’s wrong with guys moot.

My friend, Moxie, a prominent dating blogger and fellow truth-teller, agrees with me. As a 40-year-old woman, she’s been through her share of heartbreak, but when she steps back and takes an objective look at the dating behaviors of women, 35-45, she sees something else entirely. Men are pretty even-keeled about the ups and downs of dating. Women, on the other hand, are extremely negative.

Says Moxie, “They don’t write articles about the dearth of “good” women. They don’t blog about their love/sex lives. They don’t bemoan their bad dates on Twitter or Facebook. They have nothing to prove. They don’t defend their choice to stay single. They don’t have disclaimers or requirements beyond “Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass.”

Yep, that sounds about right.

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

So what is it that makes women more negative about the dating process than men?

If I were to tender a guess, it’s for a few reasons:

1. The biological imperative of childbearing. That ticking clock gets louder and creates an undue sense of pressure to not “waste time” on the wrong men.

2. Oxytocin. It’s biologically more difficult for women to have unattached sex without emotion and bonding. Thus, women get hurt by passionate flings more than men.

3. Societal expectations. I think there’s a ton of reinforcement from women and women’s magazines that one should be married with children. Men aren’t as consumed by relationships, in general.

4. Communication styles. Men aren’t encouraged to talk about their feelings, so even if they are lonely and pining for a relationship, you won’t hear them complain or rail on the opposite sex as much. There are certainly a lot fewer male dating bloggers, relationship columnists, and dating coaches (apart from the pick-up artist crowd).

5. Expectations. I think this is the big one. Men understand that rejection is part of the process. We ask for numbers, get turned down. Write to women online, get turned down. Lean in for the first kiss, get turned down. At a certain point, we realize that this is just how the world works. You win some, you lose some. I don’t think most women are as inured to failure as men – which makes the failures all the more intolerable, leads to prolonged dating hiatuses, and proclamations that there are “no good men out there”.

And if you’ve been reading this and bristling at Moxie’s observation that perhaps women are more negative about dating than men, consider this:

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

I don’t think it’s because women are better than men. I think it’s because women are more vocal about male shortcomings.

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Comments:

  1. 241
    Randy

    Negativity comes from the fact that most people fail to recognize there is a cost involved to dating.  Men have to deal with rejection. That is a cost of dating.  Women have to deal with non-committal men who only want a hook up.  That is a cost of dating.  The only problem with it is that people expect too much, too soon from the process.  If a woman is picky, she should be prepared to deal with the costs associated with that choice.  Yet, she winds up frustrated because the person she went out with doesn’t give her what she wants (a LTR). 
    I’ve emailed people who refer to dating as “punishment” and not received a reply, which I’m ok with, as I view it as a cost of dating.  But I always wonder what the person on the other end is expecting.  You want a cute, emotionally available, witty, funny guy who will commit to you?  There aren’t many out there, so you have to be prepared to pay the cost, which is time.  People only punish themselves if they expect the process to be easy while having a narrow view of who the right person is. 
    So many people say they “wasted time” on someone.  No, that isn’t true. You need to look at it as a learning experience.  Remember what the end goal is.  You want to find someone who is right for you.  That isn’t easy to do and you must be prepared for the journey, with the highs and lows associated with it.

    1. 241.1
      GreatGal

      Agree. There’s not wasted time. There’s always a cost – but it’s so totally worth it!

    2. 241.2
      CMW

      I like how this is put.  Time is money.  The cost of time is different for each person.

    3. 241.3
      Karmic Equation

      Yes. This is well said.

    4. 241.4
      dr blais

      men get rejection and the fucking bill

  2. 242
    The truth shall be told

    Because women only want to date men THEIR own age and not older. women get turned off by men over 50, YUK, especially when they are only 38 yrs of age. I am dating a rich guy, make my OWN money and we don’t want irritating, annoying kids either. I am a very attractive, beautiful female who has not lost her looks, size 10, go to gym and am successful. Why must I date a loser or fall for a guy over 50 when i am successful myself. I have my beauty and no family. I guess I have it all, that is why I am hated by so many jealous men, they hate an attractive, blue eyed , blonde to have it all. They are jealous of successful, beautiful, wealthy females who have their equal and a nice, tall, dark handsome man with brown eyes who loves her and is not silly enough or going through a stupid mid life crisis to go for women under 33.

    1. 242.1
      twinkle

      But why do u sound so angry? It’s a serious question. I mean, during the times in my life where everything is going my way, I’m so blissfully happy, whereas u sound bitter. (Actually even when things aren’t going so well for me, I come across as happier than u) It really kind of underscores the title of this piece which is “why are women more negative about dating than men?” If this is how negative u are when things are going fine, I wonder how negative u sound about dating when things aren’t going so well… I’m genuinely curious about this phenomena.

      1. 242.1.1
        starthrower68

        Being awesomer-than-thou doesn’t always make someone a nicer, kinder, person. Blessed are those who are humble in spirit.

        1. twinkle

          Lol true starthrower, but I at least thought being so ‘awesome’ would make a person happy, even if not a “nicer, kinder” person. She doesn’t even sound happy, but quite bitter and cynical. I think any men who dislike her are not disliking her out of jealousy, but because of the angry attitude.

        2. starthrower68

          Well, there’s a cure for that but it doesn’t play well here. 😉

    2. 242.2
      dr blais

      they get turned on by bank accounts sadly character has nothing to do with men except how evil they are makes women wet they love power and money

  3. 243
    Derek

    It’s because women are women.  To women, dating is like window shopping.  It’s the same reason why every man I know has been on 1-2 dates in the past year, and every woman has been on at least 5.  When you can afford to be picky, you are.  

    1. 243.1
      Derek

      Furthermore, I almost can’t wait to see what happens when the false sense of security women have had vanishes.  What happens when the boat is sinking and you realize that you actually need men to protect you?   What happens when we come upon WW3?  What happens when social issues are so far below what’s important (survival)?  As a single 29 year old man who has a great feel for the Eestern dating scene, I feel I have a fair opinion on the subject.   With that said, please support your troops and maybe worry less about stupid things like why a guy wants to sleep with you.  Of course he does.  It’s how we have survived as a species.  We have really fooled ourselves about what matters in society and the power imbalance between men and women’s value (women are a commodity, men are like dirt) will eventually diminish. 

    2. 243.2
      Karl R

      Derek asked:
      “What happens when we come upon WW3?”
       
      What are you going to be doing about it? Will you be running around, catching nuclear warheads in your bare hands and throwing them back at the Russians before they can explode? Are you such a cool dude that nuclear fireballs are only room temperature in your presence? Are you going to huff and puff and blow nuclear fallout away from population centers?
       
      In case of a nuclear apocalypse, how is your presence more useful than that of my wife or sister? (Since they both have significant veterinary medicine training, they can save someone’s life by suturing up wounds. That may not do much against nukes, but it does offer significant support in more mundane disasters.)
       
      What manly attribute will allow you to protect women from a nuclear war?
       
      Derek asked:
      “What happens when the boat is sinking and you realize that you actually need men to protect you?”
       
      What do do when a boat is sinking…
      Derek’s recommendation:
      Find a man to protect you.
       
      Karl’s recommendation:
      Learn (in advance) how to swim and where to find the life preservers.
      Derek,
      My recommendation more likely to save someone’s life. It’s also more likely to appeal to women.
       
      Derek said:
      “We have really fooled ourselves about what matters in society”
       
      You have certainly managed to fool yourself. Knowledge which empowers people is far more valuable than vague promises of “protection.” It has always mattered more, and it always will.
       
      Derek said:
      “every man I know has been on 1-2 dates in the past year, and every woman has been on at least 5.”
       
      It’s mathematically impossible for women to have more dates with men than men have with women. Your sample is skewed because you’re hanging out with a bunch of men that women don’t want to date. You’re a mal-chauvinist. You probably hang out with other mal-chauvinists. As a bunch of mal-chauvinists, you really don’t have much to offer women (except for grief … and some vague offer to protect them from nuclear warheads and large bodies of water).
       
      If it helps, think of it as Darwinian survival. The dating environment has changed. Complaining about it isn’t going to help. If you want to thrive, you’ll have to adapt to the new environment. Creatures that fail to adapt go extinct.

      1. 243.2.1
        Julia

        I want to give a hearty LOL to you for this reply to Derek. And I am pretty sure a nuclear bomb will kill men, women AND children so you know, we will probably all just die.
         
        I do want to ask Derek what he thinks “supporting the troops” has to do with dating though…

      2. 243.2.2
        CMW

        Best…….response……….ever from a male to a male about antiquated attitude.  You deserve and award for this one my dear!

         

  4. 244
    SparklingEmerald

    From the OP “I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.”
    ________________________________
    Seriously  ?  Do you not read the comments from the men on here urging men to go to foreign countries because all American women are bitches, ho’s or what have you ?  Do you not read the comments from men saying that women are essentially worthless past the age of 22, after their “power years” ? Do you not read the comments from the men who have given up ?  I’m sure you hear more “There’s no good men out there” MORE, because you coach WOMEN.  If you coached men, maybe you would hear “There are no good women” more often, but men don’t seek out dating advice.  The ones who come to this blog, mainly do so, to give us women advice OR to tell us that we all really suck (but not in the fun way) 
    I do think there are good  men out there, but most are taken.  And with the eligible ones, there simply aren’t enough. Women who want a real relationship outnumber men who want a real relationship, and after 50, factor in that more men in this age group are DEAD. 

  5. 245
    Angel

    This is a very good article, Evan. Nicely written.
    It is very hard to overcome heartbreak and rejections. I know it is for me. But I am glad to say that despite all these failures, which pains me to say are many, I have decided to pick up the pieces and stop blaming men for my heartache. Looking at my own decision-making process, I realize there’s a lot we can do differently as women. But one thing we can know for sure is that we need to grow from this pain and keep going with our heads held high and with compassion towards ourselves and those very men who unwittingly or otherwise hurt us. It is difficult, it is unbearable at times, but our lives matter way too much to not get up again.

  6. 246
    hippiefreak

    When it comes down to it, women are too much of this earth to break free of their own thinking. I’m not even gonna bother with explaining myself because there is nothing anyone can say that will make a difference. You either know what I mean or you don’t. The sad thing is, if you already know what I mean, you wouldn’t be here reading this.

    1. 246.1
      Karl R

      hippiefreak said:
      “I’m not even gonna bother with explaining myself” 

      Is that because your statement can’t be supported rationally or logically or with evidence?

      hippiefreak said:
      “because there is nothing anyone can say that will make a difference.” 

      Is that because you’ve completely closed your mind to any evidence that might contradict your beliefs?

      hippiefreak said:
      “The sad thing is, if you already know what I mean, you wouldn’t be here reading this.” 

      The hilarious thing is, you’re also here reading this. Therefore, according to your own statement, you don’t know what you mean either.

      Thanks for the morning laugh.

      1. 246.1.1
        starthrower68

        I have no idea what hippiefreak means.

  7. 247
    Kevin

    I’m finalizing a divorce…& reading these comments has reminded me NEVER to even consider dating , at least I will have a peaceful life without constantly being bashed by women. I now pretty much shun women & keep interactions to an absolute minimum ( nearly all my female work colleagues spew out hatred towards men ) , fortunately I have little need for people in my life & have realised I will be far happier flying solo…& remaining that way !!

  8. 248
    Jen

    I, like Kevin above, have called dating quits. Forget that I have two children by two a-holes who couldn’t commit and continue to not support or even see their children. Forget that I was date-raped by a complete stranger and while out on the town several times (just trying to have fun and not hook up or anything) have been groped, even kissed on the back of my neck, have had two bosses hit on me and grope me and had my hand shoved down a guy’s pants on a dance floor in a gay club (Stupid me for thinking gay clubs were “safe”) .. Forget that I was emotionally and sexually abused for years by my husband (who turned out to be a cheating porn/sex addict) before I realized how badly he had brainwashed me and psychologically abused my son. Forget that the last man (a typical “nice guy” to every one in public) I dated turned on me one night out of the blue and beat the shit out of me, strangling me within minutes of death and is now in prison for it.. I cannot afford to trust anymore, even my father has hurt me. Perhaps I have had bad luck with men, perhaps I chose poorly before I even knew how horrible they were (that is how abusers work anyway, they trick you into thinking they’re this great person, then turn on you when they “have you”), but even complete strangers have abused and used me, like they were somehow entitled to grope, touch, kiss, and rape my body. I do not go out anymore, I do not date anymore. It is simply too risky; I cannot trust strange men. I wish it were different, I do. But for me, I am done dating.

    1. 248.1
      Kevin

      Bloody hell !! No wonder you’ve chosen the same road as me….that’s just a collection of traumatic experiences , please be assured not every guy is like that , I’ve also had a chunk bitten out of my shoulder by a nutcase ex , still got the scar physically & mentally. I do wish you all the best & hope you heal yourself , keep busy & develop & grow yourself further , It helps a lot !!

    2. 248.2
      Buck25

      Jen,

      Wow! Sounds like you’ve experienced a long string of the worst my gender (male) has to offer. Well, there’s a lot of that behavior out there (far too much of it), but the odds of you encountering that much of it, that consistently, by random chance…?  Reprehensible as  the behavior of the men you’ve encountered, is, it’s not the behavior of all men, or even most men; most of us wouldn’t even want to do any of that, even if there were no laws or societal restraints against it. I certainly don’t want to give you the impression that I’m in any way “blaming the victim” here; but you’ve most likely chosen the wrong men (and maybe social environments) to be around; at least that’s a far more likely explanation than sheer bad luck alone.

      Give up on dating? That’s a pretty drastic solution; but while you’re taking a break anyway, wouldn’t that be a good time to take a long hard look at why you’ve apparently been attracting/dating/ being around men who use you, abuse you, take advantage of you? Figure out why you’ve made the choices you’ve made; maybe then you can change some of them, so you can attract/date the men who actually like you, respect you, care for you, maybe can even love you-it’s a pretty good bet there’s at least one man out there like that.

    3. 248.3
      dr blais

      so why cant we ever discuss why do women like the worst things about men

    4. 248.4
      Crazynopetlady

      I’m so sorry you’ve experienced such awful things. I too very rarely manage to go out anywhere and not get groped or talked to inappropriately.  It’s an epidemic of men who watch porn and then head out on the town and grope or make sexual innuendos at women!  I have also been raped by a stranger.  My marriage, whilst not entirely negative, was with someone who for some odd reason felt he could call me names, back me against walls and shout in my face, answer questions like “Good morning, how did you sleep?” with “None of your fucking business’.  Actually answered MOST questions like that.  The rest of the time he just ignored me and the kids like he was entirely disinterested in us.  When he finally woke up and realised he had better make some effort, my love for him had gone.  He is now with someone at least three times the weight of me, with no education or money.  It was the best he could get after letting himself go and not looking after himself.

      I kept to myself for 4 years after my marriage ended and was totally OK to live alone for the rest of my life.  I’m very good at being celibate, lol…  I met a ‘gentleman’ on a cruise. An incredibly wealthy, charming, unbelievably sexy man and I entered into a relationship with all my heart and soul. No, I didn’t know he was wealthy until after I had fallen for him. He talked marriage and future.  I adored this man.  Unfortunately, due to our cultural differences and his raging coke habit, he was the most paranoid, jealous, control freak I had ever met.  I tried my darndest to change to make him ‘more comfortable’.  I become a MUCH less friendly person.  From someone who could and did strike up conversations everywhere I went to not even looking people in the eye.  He was often verbally and emotionally abusive but the rest of the time, we had the most gorgeous times together.  He was like two people!  When it was bad, it was incredibly bad and when it was good – it was heaven.  He ended up beating me up for talking to a man (yep, you read that right).  I couldn’t even talk to taxi drivers or waiters in restaurants without being accused of wanting to sleep with them.  He was never going to change and now I’m over him and am ready to have him charged and convicted (of course he’ll get off because he can hire the best lawyer and is a very powerful man), but I can at least show him all women will not bow to him, now he is outside of his native country, just because he is wealthy.

      I’ve been on a few dates since – but no chemistry (I’ve only felt it once and that was for an abusive man!).  I’m now needing to think about how I let my out of control desire for this mans body, lol, allow me to be treated in ways I would never have put up with from anyone else. It was not his money that I found attractive – it was his smell, his skin, his voice.  I don’t think I can ever get that again and I’m a bit sad that it was with someone so screwed up in the head. I was unaware that humans could feel that level of attraction. Unbelievable.

      I could never understand why so many people ran after other people and wanted sex. I simply never feel attracted to people at all, normally.  I read here and it only confuses me that so many people want to be in relationships.  Everything written here just reinforces to me what a bad deal relationships are.  I can do without sex, easily , so what else would I want a relationship for?  I get better convos with my girlfriends. More emotional support and more care too.

      I would love to be attracted to a ‘nice guy’ but then from looking at relationships – I believe it’s the women who do most of the heavy emotional lifting.

      I obviously need much stronger boundaries looking at my relationship history but it’s actually an effort to have to protect myself all the time – why can’t people just not treat other people like shit?  Why do so many men verbally abuse when they don’t like something – can’t they discuss things with respect?  My marriage would have been over in 1 day if I walked away the first time I got called a name.  I intend to never give second chances and that is going to mean that every relationship will end abruptly the minute the male gets angry about something. So why bother? It doesn’t seem worth the effort to become emotionally invested in something that will always require work and putting up with things.  Men call this ‘accepting them as they are’.  I also give up.

      I’m so tired of having to stick to firm boundaries just to make sure men don’t behave badly but when I don’t, the minute I relax and be ‘easy going’ and give an inch – they take a bloody mile.  Men with money are arrogant, men without are bitter, good looking men are players, ugly men would be if they could be. I simply couldn’t fall for a man who had slept his way through hundreds of women. My son is still with his first girlfriend from high school – so I know not all men are ‘pumpers and dumpers’. I really can’t accept this ‘biological imperative’.  Men did NOT do that in my grandfathers day – this new breed of men are alarming, shallow and PROUD of it! (It’s just the way we are, dontcha know? Get used to it) Nope, I won’t and can’t.

      My advice to women would be to make your own money, get super good friends (including males), have your own children via sperm bank to make sure you don’t make decisions based on a ticking clock and get a vibrator if needed.  It frees up so much of your life to be who you want to be, go where you want to go etc. when you aren’t in a relationship.  That’s easy for me to say, I know. I handle celibacy with ease and have 3 kids, so I do feel for you younger ladies with a ticking clock.

      If I am EVER attracted to a man like I was to Mr Charm – I will NOT have a relationship with him because I”ll be sure my faulty picker is leading me astray and he’ll probably be a bloody axe murderer…

      And Dr Blais – I have discussed ad nauseum with psychologists etc. how in 26 years I’ve had two relationships and both were with abusive men. And it will probably take me a few years to unravel the lack of self esteem and boundaries I display in relationships. I’m heartbroken that the only man I felt insanely attracted to was a misogynistic cokehead pig, when he wasn’t being unbelievably gorgeous. However, that doesn’t take into account the sheer number of gropers out their that I DIDN’T choose and who foist their disgustingness onto me everywhere I go (except work). So I totally understand how Jen feels about men.

      I wish you all the best Jen and it’s totally OK to be single in this world – it’s an entirely valid lifestyle choice. You can have a very full life without a man in it. I know many women who are doing so. Good luck!!

    5. 248.5
      dandy

      Jen – not sure how old your post is but I’m sorry to hear about your experiences, and I’m in the same boat. I haven’t dealt with what you have, but I’ve thrown in the towel too. I had my son when I was 22 and after that it was game over. I went on a few blind dates but that was about it.  My son is nearly grown and I am hesitant to get back out there. I read the men’s comments on here and it’s discouraging.  Single mom’s, women over 30, not 36-24-36……. all talked about like trash and like they are not even worth a simple hello.

      1. 248.5.1
        DeeGee

        dandy said: “Single mom’s, women over 30, not 36-24-36……. all talked about like trash and like they are not even worth a simple hello.

        Men get exactly the same treatment from most women.
        I am in my mid-50’s and almost all women (99%+) on dating sites and in real life are not interested in me at all.  Either I’m too short (I’m 5’9″), they don’t like redheads (yup, some women even put “no redheads” on their dating profiles), I don’t make enough money ($90k/year), my house isn’t good enough ($250k executive home), my car isn’t fancy enough, etc. etc.
        The majority of women, especially those who are older (35 to 40+) with children and have “hit the wall” are only interested in men who have the “6 sixes” (google it, askmen.com has a good article explaining it).

        1. Marika

          What age group of women are you targetting? If you’re in your mid 50’s and yet you refer to women 35-40+ as ‘older’, I’m wondering if you’re the kind of man hitting up women 10-15 (or more) years younger than you? If you are, that’s the problem. Try women closer to your own age, or even a bit older than you. I’m sure women around 56-60 or so would be flattered to hear from you.

          If you baulk at that idea, then you can probably understand why women who you consider ‘wall hitters’ are wondering why a much older man is messaging them. 35 is 20 years younger than you, so I’m really surprised you’d refer to that age group as ‘older’.

        2. DeeGee

          Marika – I personally only contact women on dating sites between 50 and 65. I am 55. I used 35 to 40+ meaning that is the starting point for when women are classified as starting to hit the wall. Or cougars or MILFs if you prefer. No offense meant.

          And 95%+ of the women in my dating range of 50-65 are even worse. On dating sites women with rolls list themselves as “athletic body type”, and the majority of them are even more hung up on the “6 sixes”.  I even see a lot of profiles by 55+ year olds who say right on their profiles that unless you make $150k+ a year don’t bother contacting them because they “want to retire and travel the world”.  Most women do not get better with age.

          No offense meant to anyone in this. I am simply relaying actual information from what I have seen from the past 5+ years that I have been on six dating sites.  All that I can say is that it is no wonder that many women are single. I will submit however that I have seen maybe 10% of the profiles where the women seem nice, or had conversations with them, or dates with them.  But the numbers are not that good.

          Also note that I often hear about similar bad numbers regarding men on dating sites. Women I know or have met who complain about a high percentage of creeps and dick pics etc.

          So online dating is one of my least recommended methods of meeting anyone of either sex.

        3. DeeGee

          Marika – I also used the starting range of 35-40+ in response to dandy’s comment regarding “women over 30”.

  9. 249
    DeeGee

    Wow.  I love reading heated arguments between the sexes.  🙂

    I have probably as many female acquaintances as I do male acquaintances.
    In my work I also deal mostly with women (I do corporate IT and indie filmmaking).

    From what I have seen, both sexes are quite negative about dating, especially as they get older and have dated more, or if they have been through a long marriage or are widowed (these are the worst to date as they hold their dead husband up as being perfect that no man can then ever compete with).
    I think a lot of the negativity is due to the current state of our society, there are simply too many bad and selfish people in both sexes.

    What I have observed though, is that guys have a tendency to have less vitriol.
    Women tend to get viper-tongue and very bitter over any rejection or bad relationship.
    And since women tend to be more vocal about their feelings, it only seems they are more negative.

    I am in my early 50’s, divorced (over 15 years ago), and trying to date.
    I gotta say, it’s difficult out there.  It almost makes you want to say forget it.
    I am half-way between an alpha and beta male, I have no problem asking a girl out or making plans, and I am not offended if she suggests anything.  I am looking for an equal who has no problem in role switching (and role playing nudge nudge wink wink).
    I am 5’8″ (too short for most women and many have told me so).
    I am middle class, owner and president of my own tech firm (which has a very bright future over the next couple of years).

    For the dozen or so women I have dated since I divorced, most are trainwrecks, most didn’t get a second date, and on some I even walked out halfway through on the first date (gold diggers).
    Many of them also go hot-and-cold: excited right after the first date, but then either try too hard to play hard-to-get or seem crazy-mixed-up in their own heads as to what they really want (perhaps PTSD from previous relationships?)…  come here come here come here… go away go away go away… and I refuse to stand for any of that, either you want to be with me or you don’t.  Be an adult.

    The biggest issue I have found, even worse than any dating negativity on the part of either sex, is that even in their 40’s and 50’s most women still want to play teenage mind games (like playing hard to get).  I’m in my 50’s, I have probably 15 years left, quit wasting my time.  It’s frustrating as all hell.

    1. 249.1
      CMW

      Its because nature teaches us that men get bored with out a chase.  Maybe not so much the come here go away thing but I gotta tell you that my bitchier friends who are mean to guys seem to not get played and get what they want vs. women who just do what the guy wants. And it always seems that the guy or girl who does not want you is the one that you want and vice versa.  That guy I can’t get rid of, 10 of my girlfriends want him but its because I ignore him he wants what he cant’ have.  If he gets it he wont want it anymore.  It is an interesting conundrum. A real relationship that involves love is none of these things with these games of lust and conquer.   Its like any good friendship or family relationship that is not romantic.  Respect is key.  Knowing yourself is key and I think you hit the nail on the head here with games suck.  They are all driven by a goal – one that is hard wired into us… desire.   Then again your playing one in life all the way around the board whether you like it or not.   Those that know the rules of the game and how to break them and when win – but they are not necessarily happy.  All humans want to be loved and understood.    Rarely, and I mean rarely…. someone comes along that breaks that mold.   they are  a true friend and the chemistry is there.  but you have to work to keep it or you lose it.   That is where I feel both men and women’s laziness come in. you also have to give people more time than one date.  one conversation and the sex thing if it is there in the beginning then you can wait for it to be there later.  Lust is lust.  Just my 2cents.

       

  10. 250
    bob smith

    Is this article for real? There ARE good men. They’re all around you. What YOU want is an alpha male who likes fluffy bunny rabbits and is willing to do wholesome “bonding” touchy-feely stuff with you. There ARE guys who will do those things with you but somehow, you will, quietly and politely thank him for his interest in you but you’re just not interested in him in the same way. Let’s face it. You want an alpha male. Plain and simple. Don’t go boo-hooing all over the place saying there are no good men. You made your choices. Deal with it.

    1. 250.1
      Angie

      I agree they’re ARE good men. But does anyone know what an alpha male really is? The term “alpha” doesn’t come from behaviors of a dog, but behaviors of a wolf! The wolf takes care of his pack,makes sure they’re fed, leads them to safe ground, is just as nurturing towards his young as the female…..and unlike a dog, will ONLY mate with ONE female–namely the alpha female.  He may be her leader, butthey’re nothing weak about her! She has strength and leadership qualities that he has. He’s the ONLY male that she obeys within the pack.

      Unfortunately alot of women, young & old,have been attracted not to alphas but to dogs. Or should I say con men, jerks, that deceive to receive. Gold digging women are certainly the female versions of those types.  Much of our attraction towards certain types have much to do with the kind of people we grew up with, the interactions between parents whether negative or positive, overall the messages we get from our family or the people we generally close too.

      Look at ANYONE who has a negative issue toward the opposite sex; usually they didn’t have positive parental role modeling. I knew someone who would say constantly how men where no good. And it’s no wonder: her parents relationship was horrendous to say the least!

      Even though they were married for 40 plus years, the father had affairs and cheated on the mother throughout the marriage. Her mother only stayed with him because in those days, there was little opportunity for a divorced woman with kids to start a life on her own. She didn’t have the courage to even TRY to leave,so she had to stay with this husband. This as well as her religion looking down on divorce. The person I knew herself went through 2 divorces and bad relationships throughout her years.

       

      We need to stop making such shallow conclusions and dig deep. Men and women are more alike than not!

      1. 250.1.1
        DeeGee

        Angie said: “But does anyone know what an alpha male really is? The term “alpha” doesn’t come from behaviors of a dog, but behaviors of a wolf!

        Your scientific comparison to wolves is not valid.
        When people refer to an alpha human male, they typically mean: outgoing, extroverted, social, a leader, usually a womanizer, over 6ft tall, dark, handsome, well built, wealthy, etc.
        The majority of men are not alphas, but men don’t typically congregate in packs with one alpha leader.

  11. 251
    Lisa

    i think both are negative but in different ways and I think you are incorrect that men are used to the rejection.  For example part of the reason I stopped doing sites online that allow any man to contact me was due to the barrage of rude emails.  Some of the rudest were from men who I never answered.  Why are you such a ….. That you can’t answer me?  What does it take to get a woman to talk on here ? Why are all you women such …..?  And this was very common I got at least one a day everyday for the year I was on there.  Then there was the actual dating.   If I turned down a second date probably 80% of the time I got something similar to the online email via text although sometimes it was preceded by a full court press of men trying to convince me to give them a second date despite my saying no and then when they figured out I was still saying no there was name calling and generalizations about women.  I was always respectful but most of these men that got upset probably got rejected a lot cause their profile pics were 15 years old and looking nothing like them and they were 5 inches shorter in person.   I may talk crap about guys in this blog or to my friends but o would email lots of guys online and never hear back and I would never think of sending a rude follow up or any follow up I just moved on to the next and certainly if I asked to see a man and he said no I would not call him names.  Personally I think men have a harder time with rejection than women,

  12. 252
    CMW

    I have read this article and all of the reply’s up to here.  Most of the posters make me very sad indeed.  There is so much hate between men and women for pure lack of understanding or unwillingness to back down from ones hardened opinion. I can see why Evan got beaten down to the point where he snapped and mad the “gaggle of men haters” comment.  But that is not true Evan.  I think people are hurt and desperate to understand.   There seems to be even more hate (Angie C being the prime example) from women to women – and that is driven by competition between women.     The biggest problem in our society and world today is people keep assigning value to things about other humans, using sex as a transaction / monitory value (both men and women do this) and looking at them as a supply mechanism vs a person with feelings so that they can keep them happy short term and don’t give anyone a chance to actually get to know them long term.  Some of it yes, is chemistry and the way we as men and women are hardwired in our DNA and some of it is simply time and effort.  I did not actually like my (now deceased)  fiance when I first met him.  Over time I got to know him and he made me laugh.  A lot. We became friends over 6 months and he eventually won me over and I eventually came to trust him.  We did not plan to sleep together as I was dating someone else but by the time we did (I had ended my prior relationship) we already established a healthy friendship and it was not awkward, I was not worried that he would or would not call me it just worked.  He however died.  I think he was your normal every day guy, was not over the top gorgeous, was not the tallest man 5’7  I am 5’2 so that never bothered him or I  – what I would call cute – charming and funny.  He was a little over weight but not to the extreme.  He was 1 year younger than I and we just had fun.   He had baggage, and ex a kid we dealt with it – with humor.  But at the end of the day he had a heart attack and died at 42 years old (Massive Coronary – he did not smoke was genetics and poor management of stress from his job)  I have to be honest I really do not know how to date,  always had a long term boyfriend who I either met thru friends or from doing things (like skiing) or at work. Most of my relationships start by meeting  people in my industry.  I put the focus and work into trying to make sure I stayed true to myself and kept my significant other happy with who I was.   I purposely kept myself away from putting myself out there for the past year and a half to try and give myself time to heal appropriately.  I know I don’t want to be alone for the rest of my life but I sure don’t want to deal with all this hate out there.  Its so horrible and sad.   I have been doing a lot of reading about it and I am dead scared to date.  I have a fantastic  job, own my own house, car, I am in great shape, no kids.  Yes I have some emotional baggage but I am too busy having fun to think about it and it will eventually heal.   When it seems that I SHOULD by all intensive purposes have a very strong wall up with a barrage of tools at my disposal to weed out lying cheating people.  I even called a match making service (very pricey) and when I told the woman why I was single she would not take my money.  She told me flat out that I should move off the east coast and to the middle of the country where people still have values and morals.  She told me that her job (as a psychologist) is to do nothing but weed through on line profiles and she can pick out a player in 10 words or less. Both she and 2 other match making services said the same thing.  Men my own age from Boston to DC do not want me and that I will get used for my own success by men just looking for a sugar momma.   She said at my age that I would not do well to date here unless I want to lie about my age – which I have integrity and refuse to do.  (I look 15 years younger than I am – so does my mom).  I suppose that means if I don’t want to move I have to get a cat (which I am completely  allergic to) and live alone for the rest of my life.  LOL just sad.

    1. 252.1
      DeeGee

      CMW said: “Most of the posters make me very sad indeed.  There is so much hate between men and women for pure lack of understanding or unwillingness to back down from ones hardened opinion.

      Well you have said repeatedly on this blog that all men are rapists and are responsible for our current “rape culture”, so what does that say about you and your “hardened opinion”?

      1. 252.1.1
        CMW

        Lol …oh so you do read my other posts?  Do you get paid to ignite argument or do you just like to argue?  I did not say all men are rapists.  I just asked that you not try to minimize it.  I am now also going to ask that you not put words in my mouth I did not say or confuse my posts with those of others.  You are in fact quite showing your pet verbal anger when you so.  Namaste!

        1. DeeGee

          CMW said: “Do you get paid to ignite argument or do you just like to argue?

          No, I’m not paid.  I’ll have to bring that up with Evan perhaps.  😉
          With my personality I just tend to mirror the person I am having a discussion with.  I’m being serious, I’m not pointing a finger at you in saying that.  If someone posts on here slinging mud, I may just start throwing some back.

          I did not say all men are rapists.

          You inferred it.  What exactly do you think it means when you throw around phrases like “we have a rape culture”?
          If it is “cultural” that means that it is an accepted norm, it is not illegal or unlawful, it has become part of that society and is accepted by that society as a belief or custom, and a large percentage of that society practices, partakes, or enjoys it.

  13. 253
    Ludy

    I wouln’t say it’s very true that women are more negative about dating that men are. It’s true that phrases like “all men are pigs” and all the likes have become clichés, because, like you said, it’s socially acceptable for women to play the victims.

    Even so, you conveniently gloss over all the pick up artist / manosphere trend. Personally, as a woman, I have had the misfortune to visit sites such as ROK and others, aside from their ideas -some of them do hold some validity- the intensity of their resentment towards women blew me away.

    And it seems to me that the PUA/manosphere bloggers have become quite influential over young men.

    1. 253.1
      DeeGee

      Ludy said: “And it seems to me that the PUA/manosphere bloggers have become quite influential over young men.

      That’s because PUA techniques work with most women.
      Young men just want to have sex, and those blogs teach them how to successfully get it.

      1. 253.1.1
        Ludy

        About the “dating techniques”, most of  them are common sense : “man up and talk to her” kind of thing.   My point was about the general misogyny that exudes from their writings.

        1. DeeGee

          Ludy said: “My point was about the general misogyny that exudes from their writings.

          I feel the PUA sites go beyond misogyny, if there is such a place.  Most of them make my skin crawl, and I’m a guy.  Any I have read I found to be way beyond the pale.

    2. 253.2
      dr blais

      thats because women like the absolute worst qualitys in men and the anti pick up artists are the ones going why do women hate nice guys

      1. 253.2.1
        Crazynopetlady

        Dr Blais,

        I’ve never actually met a nice guy, who told me he was a nice guy, who actually turned out to be a nice guy.  Most nice guys I know, don’t have to tell me they are.  I’ve had 2 out of 2 relationships with abusive men.  I did NOT like their worst qualities at all.  I loved their nice qualities and hoped their worst qualities would ‘change’.  Yes, I’m obviously a gigantic moron.  I’m not attracted to PUAs at all. Both my husband and ex were not good looking in the conventional sense. One of the nicest guys I know, who confessed his attraction to me, who I did try with all my MIGHT to be attracted to. Hanging around him, having long conversations with, going to dinner with etc. who would have been a perfect boyfriend I just couldn’t find him attractive at all.  I actually found his scent repugnant and also when getting to know him I found out he was a conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxer.  Still a nice guy though so I guess he’s in the ‘friendzone’… I tried again with another nice guy even went as far as kissing him and YUCK!!  He didn’t stick around to be my friend so I guess he was only after one thing anyway.  There are men who won’t even entertain the thought of having female friends if they won’t get sex.  They leave. the ones who remain my friends, I am grateful for.  I don’t know why it seems to you that women only like bad men because most of the women on here are clearly stating they do NOT.  My psychologist advised me to pick someone I’m only mildly attracted to (haven’t met one yet) and then get to know him and see what happens.  I don’t think most men would stick around for that process.  Reading here leads me to the conclusion that men and women shouldn’t even be living on the same planet!!  The men here HATE women and have no respect for them at all.  If you’ve ever heard a roomful of ‘nice guys’ talking about women when they aren’t around – boy, oh, boy – well I don’t have to tell you – I’m sure you’ve had plenty of disrespectful convos with men about women and sex.  Probably even used the words wh**es,sl**s and bit***s.  Am I right? That is not nice.  How many percent of men do you judge would have talked about women like that in their lifetime? 100%?   I’ve never heard a group of women be as disrespectful towards men as I have heard men be absolutely, downright disgusting and sick about women. Yes, I’ve heard complaining and negativity but the absolute disrespect as nothing more than mere holes or objects?   NO.

  14. 254
    Maverick

    The true issue at hand here is that women tend to date the top 2% -20% of men while men prefer to date younger women. These men of course being attractive, tall, handsome with a personality that would even make the most alpha lions tremble, simply put, have lots of options. So, the solptic side of the ladies takes this 2% or hell, let’s be liberal, 20% of men and they automatically assume all men are like this.  The key for women is to understand this dynamic before they get too old or the other 80-98% of men won’t see any value in them – and rightfully so, if you can’t have kids or even healthy kids with someone, a man will keep looking for someone that you can do this with therefore 35+ year old women will often get disqualified. In case you’re wondering, younger women are more fertile and produce healthier  children than older women.  It also doesn’t help that divorce is easy peasy now days which men and children often suffer the most in the fallout. It definitely doesn’t help that statical facts show women are the majority of the ones who initiate divorce. So, if you’re a single woman wondering where all the good men have gone and you hear one of your friends who wants a divorce from a non abusive, loyal man who is decent – reach over and pinch her, and fairly hard as well. She’s making the rest of you ladies look bad.   🙂

     

    “If you bite and devour one another, watch out or you will be destroyed by one another.” Philipans 5:15

    1. 254.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      “The true issue at hand here is that women tend to date the top 2% -20% of men while men prefer to date younger women.”

      On it’s face, this is absurd. Unless you think that only the top 20% is procreating. Now take a look at a mall or a bus or a Donald Trump rally. Dating, sex and marriage isn’t only for the top 2-20% percent. The top 2-20% of anybody has its advantages – looks, intelligence, education, income – but that doesn’t mean that everyone else is standing alone with a thumb up his ass.

      1. 254.1.1
        Maverick

        No one is procreating anymore. We are below replacement level fertility here in the US – the only reason we are not showing depopulation in statistics is due to immigration – legal and illegal. In 2014, first time in America more people were single than married. Families are not forming anymore. Not absurd at all. Pleaee research the statistics yourself or if you’re lazy (which I don’t believe you are) check out the documentary: The Demographic Winter – I think you can get it on YouTube for free.  Seriously check this out.

        Another great thing to check out is the report on Ok Cupid which released statics of how the majority of women, via favoriting and messaging on the site, responded to only 20% of men leaving the other 80% as not suitable. Yes, basically in a nutshell from Ok Cupids site quote unquote – “the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her”.  To be fair, OK Cupid did berate men with statics but it was still the women who were far more and ridiculously choosier about who they would date.

        Thank you for posting my response, I made some other sold remarks that will be good for those who don’t understand our current issues. For example, urging other women to help prevent divorce and also the age problem as men are biologically wired to seek young women. Tic toc

        *Lastly I’m not sure what Donald Trump has to do with anything. I personally don’t fetishize politicians or stars and I’ve been completely unplugged for this mess of an election.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          1. 4 million kids were born in the U.S. last year.
          2. 75% of people still get married.
          3. I did read the OkCupid study and have publicly acknowledged in previous blog posts that women think that 80% of men online are “below average”.

          The point is that the sky isn’t exactly falling. It’s certainly worse for poor, uneducated people who have tons of kids out of wedlock. But in my corner of the universe – as a dating coach for college educated, successful women, everything is actually looking up. 65% of college educated women are married and 78% of those women could expect their marriages to last over 20 years.

          Sorry if my facts contradict your narrative, but the truth is that if you want to get married and start a family, nothing’s stopping you. Pretty much everybody I know is married with kids – and that’s a choice that I made. There’s nothing wrong with flying solo – I just resent being told that I’m part of a dying breed when I’m not.

        2. Ridiculousness

          Maverick,

          1) I think you mean “solipsistic.” Next time just cut and paste it right from Reddit red pill. It will save you the trouble of having to spell it right.

          2) “Another great thing to check out is the report on Ok Cupid which released statics of how the majority of women, via favoriting and messaging on the site, responded to only 20% of men leaving the other 80% as not suitable.”

          I wonder what the percentage is of men who email the same young pretty girls under 25. You know the 5% of females that 100% of men are messaging. It works both ways but somehow men like you feel you shouldn’t be judged by women while feeling entitled to judge women.

          Besides I think the study asked women about physical attractiveness and showed that women only found 20% men’s photos attractive. Partially because many men post bad or outdated pictures. It could also be becuase women are not men and women who are serious about dating aren’t doing what men are doing. We are not going online looking for a quick and easy lay from the hottest man while putting in the least amount of effort. What attracts women is far more complex than what he looks like in 2×2 photo. Do I need to say that again? Women don’t think like men.

          3) “For example, urging other women to help prevent divorce and also the age problem as men are biologically wired to seek young women.”

          How exactly does anyone “prevent” “the age problem?” There’s no fountain of youth to keep all women looking 20 forever, despite what men want. What does urging other women to help prevent divorce mean?

          4) “I am also am dating a Polish girl who is quite decent and we might get married. I just know that at age 36, I have a six figure salary, money in the bank, a house almost paid off and I won’t provide for a woman over the age of 24”

          If you have so much going for you and you’re happily coupled, why are you wasting your time to come here and complain about women you aren’t going to date anyway?

          5) “women automatically assume “all men” are bad.

          You just said all American women except those in the Midwest are bad.

          I am going to disagree with Evan. Most of us women think it’s great that guys like you go overseas and take your horrible personalities to another continent far from here. You’re doing us a favor. So thanks.

      2. 254.1.2
        Maverick

        4 million born – ah, how could I be so careless – Of course those who legally and illegally immigrate over here are all infertile, right? They don’t reproduce. Actually maybe that’s wrong. I believe it was Time (one of the larger news publications, trying to find that now) who released a report that foreign born Asians are outpacing all races in reproduction in the US followed by foreign born Hispanics.

        75% – hummm…. more like 66% and dropping. Sure, Time released a report that stated 25% of millennials won’t get married but we would still need to take into account older generations that didn’t get married either. If the next generation is as bad as millennials, we could see the near end of marriage around the corner – only one or two generations away.

        Although the OK Cupid study was conducted online (obviously), it does not mean that women think that 80% of men online only, emphasis provided by me, are below average. As with many facets of human behavior, the the virtual world parallels the actual world. Just look at men playing World of Warcraft commonly fight on behalf of female players. Obviously this does not just take place with men online – as it’s part of biology and it will take place anywhere men and women interact. Look at you, you run a blog, a virtual discussion arena, to help women feel better about themselves instead of giving them the harsh reality of their bad decisions along with our current culture narrative that is preventing their happiness. This type of behavior can also be seen at your local bar, restaurant or office space.

        Never said or implied the sky is falling but maybe you intended that comment for your most vocal female visitors that just can’t seem to find good men. I just know that Asian women have been wonderful girlfriends however that is relative to my experience and opinion. I am also am dating a Polish girl who is quite decent and we might get married. I just know that at age 36, I have a six figure salary, money in the bank, a house almost paid off and I won’t provide for a woman over the age of 24.  The only thing I dislike most about myself is I’m just under 6′ tall and if you read most online profiles you’ll see the ladies state, “if you’re under 6ft tall don’t contact me”. Maybe that would be another good blog post you could do if you haven’t done it already. Regardless seems like the ladies from a far don’t have such high of expectations.

        No slivers of sky in my hair – life is good for me. I just wish I had discovered the truth sooner – like back in my 20s. Better late than never.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Maybe you’re not a small-minded, shallow, right-wing misogynist, but your statements would seem to paint another picture.

          Contra to your point about the US population dying, I pointed out that there are no shortage of babies being born. You turned it into an immigration screed. Guess what? Asians born in America are Americans. My Russian grandmother came here in 1929. I’m an American. So your point is a) irrelevant and b) incorrect. Per Wikipedia on sub replacement fertility.

          While much of the world has experienced declining fertility rates over the last twenty years, the total fertility rate in the United States has remained relatively stable in comparison.[24] This is largely due to the high fertility rate among communities such as Hispanics, but it is also because the fertility rate among non-Hispanic whites in the US, after falling to about 1.6 in the 1970s and early 1980s, had increased and is now around 1.89 rather than lower to the 1.6 level common in Europe. It can also be explained by a substantial immigration.

          Your doom and gloom projections about marriage are based on your feelings – you’re anti-marriage, you think poorly of women, and therefore marriage must be dying. I show you a statistic that proves otherwise and you choose to ignore it and talk about your feelings. Come back to this space in thirty years and guess what? Half of the country will still be married and, among educated people, that number will be 70% or so. Marriage is not dying. Only your faith in it is.

          I don’t run a virtual discussion arena to make women feel better about themselves instead of giving them the harsh reality. Read 1000 blog posts. Read 85,000 comment. Read all the vitriol I’ve received for telling women to not be so fixated on height, income, and education, why compromise is essential, how it’s important to not try and change your man and accept, appreciate and admire him. In other words, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. I hold up the mirror to women more than any expert out there. Who’s holding up the mirror to you?

          Evidently, that falls on me.

          If you think your biggest problem is that you’re under six feet tall, you’re living in a fantasy world. Your biggest problem is that you have no self-awareness (about how you actually sound), no empathy (for the opposite sex), no clue (that fishing abroad for a bride because all American women are selfish ballbreakers) is a questionable strategy at best, no sense that a woman under 24 is not really your equal and is really just a little girl. I can go on, but I won’t.

          So there you go: you’ve discovered the truth from someone who makes a living speaking truth. Your biggest problem isn’t American women – it’s your limited, selfish, anachronistic worldview that diminishes one gender entirely and has absolutely no idea that he’s doing it. You probably think that you’re a bright, masculine man – a great catch. Let’s just say that I worry for the sake of your Polish girl, who may land herself a dark haired, six figure earner…who is a not-so-secret misogynist that ignores inconvenient facts and blames women for the ills of the world.

          Goodbye Maverick

      3. 254.1.3
        Mavericks

        Wrong. I’ve had so much self awareness over a good part of the past two decades that it destroyed my self esteem to the point that I had to expat for part of the year to realize it was NOT me. I finally was able to forgive myself and grow as a solid and well rounded individual, who is not perfect, who does have flaws and who does sin, but I have many qualities to be appreciated. I finally realized that, despite what I came across in America, there are great women out there!  Isn’t that worth something. If I was a misogynist why would I say these things? Misogyny is hatred of ALL women – instead, I disapprove of bad behaving women. That is not a misogynist. Not even in the least. 

        There is no questionable strategy with happiness abroad and including the Midwest. Yes Midwest girls are wonderful as they retain femininity and respect for men just like women in Poland, Philippines and Vietnam. Wow, what a concept… Respect another human being regardless of gender… haha who would ever thought that would be a good idea. Well I’m here to tell you it is.

        Anyway, to my very first and original post – solipsism is the key to women’s issues. As they often date men way above their attractiveness scale and who have many options (and men are polygamous which is a man’s problem that needs to be controlled), women automatically assume “all men” are bad when these women don’t realize that most men are going completely without any affections from women – even men who women 40 to 60 years ago would have thought was an amazing catch.

        That was my original point. I leave you with this post that I wrote on a female blogger’s website, who by the way was very kind to me – yes a female, kind to me and I’m acknowledging this. Guess I’m not the big bad misogynist some try to paint me to be? I put a lot of thought into this write-up and I ask that you give it a chance to be read:
        Isn’t the primary reason, since women are the gate keepers, that waiting until marriage was such a successful strategy? By waiting until marriage, it filtered out those men who were just playing for the thrill leaving only those who truly wanted to spend the rest of their life with said woman of interest. It also helped pair her up with someone of her equal attractiveness while she was still young and attractive.
        I think the biggest problem I see is that women fail to realize the underlying nature of men. Men are polygamous – a man’s sexual strategy is to bed many young and attractive women as he can. Because of this, a man who is, on an attractiveness scale a 10, is completely willing to pursue a woman that is a 5 if it leads to sex but he will never commit to her, only have sex with her. So when that woman, who is a 5 allows that man who is a 10 access to her sexuality (also since sex is validating) she believes that she is always capable of having men who are of the highest attractiveness – basically she becomes over validated. Just look at the report by OkCupid where they found that women only showed interest and dated the top 20% of men. The other 80% of men were just not good enough, even for the average woman on the site.
        This plays out very poorly for the man who is highly attracted to a said woman and would like to have a long term commitment such as a marriage with her. Let’s say that a man is a 7 and he now approaches the aforementioned woman (with the hopes of it leading to marriage) who was a 5 – she shuns his approach since she thinks she can do better despite his attractiveness being equal or slightly greater to her level. Why does she shun his approach? Because she had sexual relations with the highly attractive man who is a 10 the night before therefore she thinks she can have a man of that high of caliber. This man who is a 7 is a joke to her – how dare he believe he can be with her? How dare he actually try? And by his trying, she perceives that it actually lowers her social value as well: what if her friends see?
        Sadly this plays out even worse for the young woman than the man who is a 7. As she continues down this path of believing she can do better, she ultimately finds herself up against mother biology and father time. As she starts to age her window of finding a quality man dries up rather quickly and she becomes nearly, if not completely – unmarriable. This is not only due to the shallowness of a man’s desire but also because of fertility especially if the man would like to some day have a family.
        I’ve always said that if a young woman doesn’t understand why she can’t find love, just simply start telling men she is waiting for marriage to have sex (and hold true to it no matter what). Her large ocean of admirers would dry up rather quickly leaving only a few, perhaps not even a puddle, who really want to be with her. Not only while she is young and beautiful, but men who are willing to be with her past the age of 40 and beyond. Isn’t that the goal anyway? Isn’t
         

         

         

  15. 255
    Maria

    I’m a single mom, 53, with a pre-teen and teen.  I have less time now than when I divorced 8 years ago, but I’ve dated.  A lot.  I have had maybe 8 “relationships” over the past 8 years, the last one lasting 2.5 years.  The men have been my age and a little older.  I’ve walked away from each man after a time, with good reason in my opinion.  It’s just difficult to build a relationship with a man at this stage in my life.  Most of these men have wanted practically ALL of my time, and the last man had 3 children under 13, half of the time!  I find that the one common denominator for all of the men has been that they have no idea what moms do, how we feel, and how attached we are to our children.  I have resources to pay for babysitting, drivers, housecleaning, whatever, but I choose to be there for my children.  Most men will happily delegate parenting responsibility.  They want to be number 1, 2 and 3 in their woman’s life.  And when I have attempted to include them in my life with my kids, they criticize my mothering (too chill), my cooking (where’s the beef?), the absence of a good father-figure in my children’s lives, even my house.  They cannot imagine that I have survived 53 years and my children have thrived,……. without a man.  Oh, and, yes, I  have interests outside of them and outside of my children.  Even my children understand my need for alone time, my need to run, to read, to write, to play the piano (ok, they don’t always appreciate the “noise”).   A few of the men have said that my biggest problem is that I don’t need a man in my life.  In their minds, I am financially independent and I’m am a pretty good handywoman.  The irony is that, early on, they were all attracted to the fact that I paid my way and had a life.

    I have found that younger men (under 30) better understand that women can be sexy and intelligent and fun and, yes, independent.  I now get Cougars.   Perhaps I don’t need, but I want love and connection.  So what I really need now is to open my options.  It’s a shame, because I think I’m a pretty good catch.

    1. 255.1
      Crazynopetlady

      I’ve had the same thing said to me.  My ex husband actually said “You don’t need me”, as if that was a bad thing!!  Isn’t it a good thing?  In my mind that means I’m with you out of choice not need.  I will never NEED a man, ever.  Most men take advantage of power in relationships, I have found.  My ex husband would not have had me stay as long as I did if I could have supported myself sooner.  He used my lack of independence to treat me like shit because he knew I couldn’t go anywhere.

      My last relationship also wanted me to spend inordinate amounts of time with him.  At first after my awful marriage I thought it was wonderful but really there were times I could have put to better use.  I hate shopping and this man was a world champion at it.  It bores me to tears.  He also gave me parenting advise despite both of his own children not talking to him for months.  That relationship ended in violence.

      Unlike you, I’m not sure if I WANT love and connection. I’m pretty cynical at this point in my life and that can’t help but rub men the wrong way, I’d say.  I’ve lost not only hope but desire that a healthy, mutually respectful, equal relationship is even possible between two people in an intimate relationship.  One always seems to have more power than the other. Most men tell me I’m a good catch – most women too.  I seem to constantly be being advised on how to get a date as if it’s a tragedy that I’m single!!  I’ve got no idea how to get a date and there is no way I’m going online for one.  How did you meet 8 men to have a relationship with?  I’ve been out of my marriage for over six years and met ONE man I was even attracted to.  I hope you find the love and connection you desire.

       

  16. 256
    Frank Johnson

     
    This blog made me think of my early 20’s, as I was rejected by the foxes who chased after the Alfa males and showed no more interest in me than glancing at a blade of grass next to the highway traveling at 75 MPH.  And this made me think about my own personal experiences with tall women, a slightly different story from this blog, but same result due to being a Beta male. One 6’ tall girl, in a gym, talked to me with such a look of disinterested she couldn’t have looked or acted more uninterested if she had wanted to.  I approached another, who I estimated being 5 foot 9 or 10 inches.  She got angry with me for even asking her out and stuck her finger in my face informing me she didn’t date shorter men.  On line, I met a girl 5’11”, and we worked out together once in my apartment complex gym, after that she did not return my two phone calls, there could be others, too, I just don’t remember them all.  Now, you may say the rejections were because of my looks, that could be true, but as I approached girls closer to my height, my success rate went way up.
     
    This blog also made me think about the rejections by tall girls, and it angered me, but not at the time the rejection.  Only years later, when I actually tallied them up, did I get angry.  I was rejected not because I was fat, bald, ugly, deformed or had a rotten personality.  No.  The reason I was rejected by all of these women was my height.   Not a one even bothered to put forth the effort to get to know me much less date me.
     
    I did date three women who were significantly taller than me, two at 5’11” and one at 5’10”.  (I am 5’8”)  And all three happened to be 32 years of age, which is more than a coincidence and a tie in with this blog.  No doubt all three wanted a tall Alfa male, and lost, so a safe stable Beta male was the next best thing in their 30’s, for I certainly didn’t grow any taller and I doubt I got better looking.  These women were past their prime and worried.   I was in my late 30’s, at this time of my life, after being married for 10 years.   It was also at this time, I could easily date younger women, and I did.  When I was 38, my first girlfriend was 27, the next was 27 and the next was 24 who became my second wife.  I never dated with any intent of marrying a woman my age.  Younger women had no issue with me dating them, and I certainly had no issue dating them.  I remember going to singles events and seeing very pretty women, who were my age, who I know 15 years earlier would not have given me the time of day.  And even now, they may have looked better than myself, but now it was me who had no interest in approaching them.  I did not want to take time and money away from pursuing younger women.  Why go old, when I could go young?  I was amazed how the dating game changed in my favor.  And I used it to my advantage, just as women had done years earlier.
     
    I am now married and have 4 sons.  I have 3 degrees, and I have co-authored 2 US patents.  I could have provided a good life to any girl.  I wanted a taller girl because of the physical turn on and to for fill one of my desires, yet not one single tall girl (in her 20’s) gave me a chance.  I was turned down consistently and without a second thought.  (Maybe due to the Alfa male fascination)  So, if you find yourself in your late 20’s or early 30’s with no prospect of a husband or children in the immediate future, you have no one to blame but yourself.  There were men like me, who wanted a leggy female, but they, like me, were never accorded the opportunity.  (This also applies to average height women, too)  And the reality is that the vast majority of tall women will not even consider a shorter man (and Beta males) until it is too late.  You would think it would be obvious that if you included shorter males (and Beta males) in your suitor selection, your odds would increase of finding a mate.  There are a lot more short and medium height males than there are taller ones.  So my advice would be to accept the advances of all men and get to know them.  I, who would have relished the opportunity of having curvy broad hips and a tapered waist to hold all night and to make love to into the early hours of the morning, was never, not once, even given a chance to start a relationship.  Throw away the yardstick, for you may find someone like me, who would love to share his life and love with a tall girl.
     
    By the way, another tie in with this article and be found at this web site.
     
                  http://shortguycentral.com/P-57/beware-of-the-reformed-heightist-woman
     
    This writer tell about his rejections in his 20’s by women only to find that women now chased after him, in spite of his height, now he is in his early 30’s.  He warns of the dangers of the “Reformed Heightest Woman” who are desperate after wasting their life chasing the Alfa male and now want a stable Beta with a steady pay-check.
     
    Here is anther on how women who found the Mr. Average (Beta Males) were worth nothing in their 20’s and now that these women are in their 30’s can’t buy a date, even from the Beta Males
     
    Why women lose in the dating game
     
                   http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html
     
    During their 20s, women compete for the most highly desirable men, the Mr Bigs. Many will readily share a bed with the sporty, attractive, confident men, while ordinary men miss out. As Whiskey puts it at whiskeysplace.wordpress.com: ”Joe Average Beta Male is about as desirable to women as a cold bowl of oatmeal.”
     
    ”I can’t believe how many men my age are only interested in younger women,” wails Gail, a 34-year-old advertising executive as she describes her first search through men’s profiles on the RSVP internet dating site. She is shocked to find many mid-30s men have set up their profiles to refuse mail from women their own age.
     
    Talking to many women like her, it’s intriguing how many look back on past relationships where they let good men get away because they weren’t ready. American journalist Kate Bolick wrote recently in The Atlantic about breaking off her three-year relationship with a man she described as ”intelligent, good-looking, loyal and kind”. She acknowledged ”there was no good reason to end things”, yet, at the time, she was convinced something was missing in the relationship. That was 11 years ago. She’s is now 39 and facing grim choices.
     

    1. 256.1
      Things that make you go hmmm

      Yet you never have shorter girls a chance…because you were attracted to tall girls…who you were mad at becuase they were attracted to tall guys and not to you…do I have that right? See any irony there?

      1. 256.1.1
        Frank Johnson

        TTMYGH

        I dated a girl for 3 1/2 years and she was 5’8″, so I did date in my height range.  My comments were that when I was in my 20’s no taller women would date me.  Then when they hit their 30’s, I was just fine.  I didn’t grow any taller, and I doubt I got better looking.  The only thing that changed was their age.  See the irony here?  These women wasted their youth chasing a taller man.  Only 15% of the men in the USA are 6′, yet the majority of women want a 6′ man.  Mathematically it is impossible for the majority of women to have a man 6′.  Furthermore, how can you measure a character of a man using a yard stick.  Would you fell sorry for a man who wasted his life chasing women who where only DD’s?  I doubt it.

         

        1. Crazynopetlady

          So was the 24 year old you eventually married six foot or did you have to settle for youth over height?

          I find it intriguing that you are attracted to women bigger than you.  Don’t you want to feel tall and manly? My last ex loved that I was shorter than him, as his previous girlfriend had been a six foot 25 year old, lol…  He decided he wanted maturity over youth in the end.  Also I think his massive jealously problem would have made being with her somewhat insane for him. I imagine just how insecure he would have felt all the time with her.

          I agree that a lot of women want men who are taller than them.  I had that convo with another woman only 2 days ago and she said the same.  I also want a man taller than me and I don’t even know why.  I’m not tall, so most men are taller than me so I’ve never had to reject someone on height.  I’ve been out with shorter men and they were rejected for other reasons over height but their height would have proved problematic in the end, anyway.  You should be pleased you were rejected outright and they didn’t waste your time trying to become attracted to you.

          Sometimes, it feels like that’s what I’m doing when I go out with men who I’m not attracted to, to try and get myself to like them – I want to give them a chance like all men seem to want but I also don’t want to waste their time.  I would love to see some study that quantifies how long it took for a man to grow on a woman before she fell in love.  I bale pretty early – say after the third date if I don’t feel attraction growing. But maybe I should say No straight away if I am not initially attracted to them, like the tall girls did for you?

    2. 256.2
      pk

      Everything you wrote about women wanting certain traits in their dates, also applies to men. Men want the attractive, youthful woman, who looks like a model just as women want. I don’t know about the next woman, but I don’t want an old man with wrinkly  skin and a huge stomach.

      . Women have as much right to be selective. Also, your comment about women looking for men after they have “wasted their lives”, is such an awful, such a crude,  thing to say about females. Women don’t “waste their lives”, anymore than a man wastes his life.

      Men age and turn undesirable too. No one wants an old man either. That’s a myth in the dating world. Women are tricked and snared to believe these deceptions about aging. But men get older too.

      1. 256.2.1
        Frank Johnson

        PK

        You write,”Everything you wrote about women wanting certain traits in their dates, also applies to men.  Utter and complete BS.  I ask you to provide a similar trait men so universally  demand of women that comes close to the height demand of women. There is none!

        Youth, attractiveness, skin are all characteristic, yet women will override all those for the characteristic of height.  Does a man do the same?  Nonsense.

        Read my Heidi story

         
        In an apartment complex that I lived in Houston, there was a loose knit collection of about 10-15 singles.  We would meet at the pool on the weekends, and have informal parities.  If one person knew of a singles event, they would inform the rest, and whoever wanted could attend.  I even dated one of the girls in the group for a short time.
         
        In the group, was an attractive girl named Heidi.  She was a degreed professional in the oil business.  And you couldn’t miss her.  She was 5’11”, blonde hair, with blue eyes.  She had broad curvy hips and an hour glass waist.  She, needless to say, she got the attention of single men.
         
        One Saturday, I was catching rays and drinking beer with some of the other guys at the complex pool, when one man I knew walked up to the group of us.  He stated that he had proposed to Heidi, and she had turned him down.  He approached us in the off chance that someone might know Heidi and put the good word in for him with her.  Sometime later, I was at a different pool in the same complex.  There was a water polo game in progress, one man with a boom box was playing about 10 feet from me, and about 10 feet in the other direction  were two girls from the group talking about how Heidi had rejected two other guy’s marriage proposals.  I wasn’t getting all the details of the conversation due to noise at the pool and that fact I didn’t really care, so I don’t know if the two girls were jealous of Heidi getting the attention of these two men, or if these women were mocking these guys as losers, due to Heidi rejecting them.  But what this proves is Heidi was getting the attention of single men.
         
        Fast forward 12 years, one child and one divorce later on my part.  A friend wanted me to join a dating agency.  He would get a bonus if I joined, and I could join at a discount.  I said before I join, I wanted to see what the single girls in the agency looked like.  I was given a binder of women 30-34 years of age.  In the binder, were pages of women.  At the top of the page, in about 1 inch high letters was the girl’s name, then below that a 2″x3″ photo of her and below that 3 or 4 paragraphs that she wrote of herself.  I started looking, and I could not have been page to page 7 or 8, when I noticed the name Heidi.  I took a good look and it was her.  I quickly scanned her paragraphs.  I remembered a phrase of one sentence, it read, “34 years old, never married, no children.”   I thought how could this be?  I knew of three men who wanted to marry her, and in the 12 years that had passed since I last saw her, there must have been more.  How was it possible she never married given all the advantages she had?  What dating parameters did she employ that failed her so miserably that resulted in her being a childless spinster given all the physical advantages she had?
         
        In in a social setting, if she were not the most desirable girl, she certainly was one of the more desirable girls. And I am here to tell you Heidi could have had absolutely any guy she wanted, and I mean any guy.  And if a poll had been taken by the single guys in the complex who would be the childless spinster of the complex, Heidi’s name would not have been at the top of the list.  What had she done with her life? How was it possible she never married?  Did she think at the age of 34, she would have a bigger and better selection of single males than when she was 24?
         
        I suspect in her 20’s, she had a male qualification list as long as her in inseam, and if a male were lacking any of these parameters, the guy was rejected.  She kept say no to men, until there were no men to say no, to.
         
        I also suspect that since all during her early years, she was used to getting plenty of male attention, and assumed the future would be like her past.  Why would it change?  And in her years 17-26, she most likely was the crème de la crème.  But as she entered her late 20’s, much to her dismay, there were lots of younger girls, many prettier and more approachable, meaning shorter.  At 5’11” she was taller than 99% of the women, 80% of the men and at 28 years of age, older than 95% of both men and women in a single’s bar.  She stood out like a sore thumb due to her height and age. 
         
        How her story ends? I don’t know.  I didn’t join the dating agency.  But it was Heidi’s actions and Heidi’s actions alone that made her single.  She wasted her youth and fertility using extremely flawed dating parameters that she created and refused to change these parameters in spite of years of obvious failure. 
         
         
         

        1. Karmic Equation

          The problem is that most 20-somethings don’t realize that their 20s is their SMV peak-time to find the best available mate.

          By the time they realize this, they’re no longer at their peak of desirability and no longer have access to the males in their relationship-prime.

          That said, I believe that both sexes can find happiness even as they age, as long as they are mature enough to make the best tradeoffs for relationship success.

          By your example, women do recognize that heightism does not help them. However, super-modelism isn’t something men seem to get over ever, even as they age.

          Women tend to become more realistic as they age, but men don’t seem to. You see a disconnect here?

        2. Crazynopetlady

          Wow, You’re making huge assumptions about what a waste Heidis life was because she didn’t end up married and knocked up in her 20s!!  I would love to see what her story is.  I doubt she feels her life is wasted.

          Are you aware that there are women out there who never want to have kids?  It’s getting more common every day.  I happened to marry the 4th guy who asked me and that was a huge mistake.  I WISH I had wasted my 20s like Heidi, instead of in a miserable bloody marriage.  I wasted my 30s the same way and now because men only want 20 year olds, it seems I’m about to waste my 40s (although I’m far happier single than married).  Downright delirious, actually.

          If Heidi had of married a man she did not like or find attractive, I feel she would feel far more like she wasted her life than she probably currently does.  She’s obviously discerning and picky and she is probably STILL picky.  Just because she’s on a dating website does not mean she’s desperate for just anyone.

          Women who don’t marry and pump out kids have not wasted their lives. Being with a man does not make a womans life more successful…  Curiously, one of my old high school boyfriends took me out to dinner recently and he is going through a divorce. During his listing of his personal attributes and successes in his life (AKA bragging) he said ‘Never been single”, which was indeed weird because ‘never been single’ seemed like more of a failure to me than ‘can live alone and be happy’ like me.   Men have a very different view – they think that without a woman to be pumping and dumping or marrying and knocking up, they are somehow less of a man.  Most women can actually handle being single much better than men, I have found.  I admire a man who can be celibate and alone for years like I can be and NOT bitter about it. It shows character and morals. I’ve never met one though……..

  17. 257
    Sabrina

    As the stuff about men not talking about a ‘dearth’ of good women, that’s totally untrue. I see lots and lots of places online where men do just that! In fact, the ones who do are often very mean and nasty and judgemental about it, too. Apparently, they think they are so perfect, and the women are so beneath them.  I was just shocked at how much animosity some men have against women. Makes me wonder why they bother dating at all.  Negativity isn’t attractive…in either gender.

    1. 257.1
      pk

      Thanks Sabrina, I agree

      ,

    2. 257.2
      dr blais

      or maybe they hate head games and being judged by their bank account not our character trumps married never for get that

      1. 257.2.1
        pk

             Sorry, to awaken you from your dream world, but females work too and have their own money . Females don’t depend on a male anymore for his little salary. Where are you finding all these females that wait a man’s salary ?? 

            But anyway, we are all judged by something. Men can’t complain about being judged by the opposite gender, because men go way over board as they viciously exceed limits if criticizing women’s bodies. 

         Women are judged to the extent that we stress over whether we are young enough,  pretty enough, thin enough, stepford wife- submissive enough, feminine enough, shut our mouths enough, let our man control decisions enough, think he has more power and influence over our daughter’s  enough, etc. Each woman is judged from the moment she realizes that she is a female. 

        Now say again what men are judged by.

        1. Frank Johnson

          PK

          You are wrong on so many of your statements, such as ,”Men can’t complain about being judged by the opposite gender, because men go way over board as they viciously exceed limits if criticizing women’s bodies. ”   How is it that public body shaming is perfectly  acceptable, provide it is a man’s height that is the parameter.  Here is another Bs line of yours,”Each woman is judged from the moment she realizes that she is a female.  Now say again what men are judged by.

          Please read below
          ‘Tall girls struggle in real life just as much as short guys do. I am a shade over 5ft 11in and when I walk into a bar I look around and can instantly dismiss all but about three or four guys. What are the chances that the remaining few who are as tall or taller than me (I am 6ft 4in in heels) are going to be of interest? My shorter friends have the pick of hundreds of men in the same venue. I don’t want to date someone who is a giant, but they have to be at least the same height as me, and that’s non-negotiable. Sadly that means I have next to no choice on a night out.’ Sally, 30
          I am 5ft 6in and wouldn’t ever consider dating a man shorter than me. Ever. I would only really contemplate a man over 6ft. I know that rules out half the male population, but it’s really important to me to feel enveloped and protected by a man. The feeling of having a tall man wrap his arms around me makes me feel safe – it reminds me of feeling protected by my father. Whether that’s a good or bad thing, I don’t know, but given I’ve been single for three years, I’m guessing it’s a bad thing!’ Harriet, 35

          “I will only date men 5’11″ and over,” says Annabelle, a 35-year-old woman standing at an above-average height of 5’11”. “Height is important to me and I don’t want to be taller than the man I’m with. Period.”

          I have 2 friends who are ridiculously hung-up on height. One is 5’9″ and the other is 5’7″ and they are forever saying “he’s cute, but he’s too short” and I feel offended for the guy. They are disqualifying him strictly based on looks. (I’m always willing to give him a chance though. so it’s good for me!) I want to look at them sometimes and say “how would you feel if a man disqualified you because you’ve got a fat ass? Wouldn’t make you feel good, now would it?”
          A friend and I went to a trendy spot he had been telling me about, hoping that it would live up to the hype. (it didn’t) I secured a table as he went to fetch a couple of menus. When he reached the bar, a moderately attractive woman stood right in front of the stack, so he lightly tapped her on the shoulder and politely asked to cut in. Before he could finish, the arrogant twit instinctively spat some “ugh, you’re too short for me” nonsense, then stormed away when he informed her that he was after drink menus, not an NBA tryout. For the record, this ‘short’ man is about 5’10 in shoes,[1] and they were about the same height. (mind, she was wearing heeled shoes)

          Today at a restaurant I overheard a group of women talking about short and tall men. These girls ranged from probably 5’1″ – 5’8″ sitting right next to me and another guy I was having lunch with. They were ranging from 3/10 to 8/10 in the looks department and aged probably between 20-40. One girl of 5’3″ even said that her 6’3″ boyfriend was the “ideal perfect height”. WTF?!? That is a foot taller than her! He has to bend down 12 inches to kiss her! How does that work, surely her ideal would be around 5’7″??? Another girl said that she felt “so protected” when wrapped in the arms of her 6’2″ boyfriend and shorter men couldn’t offer that. Another girl of 5’5″ said she dated a 5’8″ man once and hated it – she said “never again”… which followed with a bout of scornful laughter from the other girls. Another girl of about 5’6” said all men under 6 foot were “pathetic”

           

        2. Buck25

          Alright, PK,

          Down south, where I’m from, we have a little saying, “It’s the hit dog that hollers!”  Perhaps that applies here, and we are hearing the protestations of a woman scorned? Of course, you are quite the beautiful, fierce Boudicca, taking up for her less fortunate sisters, yes? Hmmm.

          Now, let’s see what you complain of: “pretty enough, thin enough, submissive enough, shut our mouths enough, feminine enough…” . You know, each and every one of the items you mention (save the first) is a behavioral or lifestyle choice. You’re stuck with the facial symmetry genetics gave you.  The rest, you can either camouflage (think makeup, clothes), or change through your own efforts ( weight, behavior, attitude, etc.). Of course, you DO have the option of being as fat, lazy, domineering, coarse, unfeminine, loud-mouthed, defiant, rude and even downright hateful as you choose. You may be surprised to know that I’m just fine with that choice. That’s right, sweet cheeks, you can be as nasty as you wanna be, and no man has the right to deprive you of your choice…but, he for damn sure has the right not to like it, or even to refuse to date you, when you choose to indulge in any or all of the above.

          If that seems terribly unfair (I know you feel you should look, think and act however you want, and any man you want should have to be attracted to you anyway; but as you’ve discovered, it doesn’t quite work that way), please, take  just a moment, and reflect on what you judge men by: things like age (he can’t change that), height (he can’t change that), facial symmetry (can’t change that either), intelligence (can change that somewhat, but not drastically), weight (fixable), income and social status (changeable to the extent basic ability allows; the average man cannot be a neurosurgeon, a rockstar, or a professional athlete, for example). Now, tell me again which gender has more control over more of the main factors the opposite gender judges by. Looks like if anyone has an advantage here, it’s …women.

          Of course, that doesn’t matter to you. You haven’t gotten what you want, and that is entirely the fault of us awful men! Your attitude toward, and empathy for, men’s feelings (assuming you even believe we might have some) reflects all the tender solicitude of a feeding crocodile.

  18. 258
    Aurora Castillo

    This was very eye opening. I’ve been on the side of there are no good men out there for a long time. Mostly because I have been in relationships I thought were going somewhere and didn’t. Thank you for posting this article, I needed it. I feel much better.

  19. 259
    Crazynopetlady

    To the short men on here who are very bitter that their parents failed at comingling their DNA, I wonder if you could just see the fact that women want tall men as the same way women have to see men ‘spreading their disgusting oats’ everywhere when they are in their 20s as just something they do and accept it?

    We have to accept so much biological imperative drivel from men, as ‘just the way they are’ and it’s ‘biology’ that you’ll all have sex with anyone who offers without even caring what her name is that maybe you should just accept that a lot of women have a biological imperative for a taller man and stop complaining about it.  You guys are not going to stop sowing your wild oats – we just have to make sure we stay away from you at your most animalistic (teens and 20s and 30s) and you’ll just have to stay away from girls whose biological imperatives include being attracted to taller men, only….  Don’t be bitter.  We accept you guys pump and dump, we know about it, we try and weed you out but aren’t always successful.  At least these girls are honest and up front about their biological imperatives and don’t lead you on only to dump you later, thus wasting months of your time.

    1. 259.1
      Theodora

      A lot of women also “sow their wild oats” in their teens, 20s and 30s. A lot of women also have casual sex with men they barely know, sometimes they proudly write about it in mainstream newspapers, blogs and books. Would you call these women “animalistic” or you use this adjective just for men?

      1. 259.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        Theodora – Are you being deliberately obtuse ?  The WHOLE point of the post you responded to was many short men BITTERLY villify women who simply aren’t attracted to shorter men.  They have all kinds of nasty names for women who simply aren’t attracted to short men.  They accept NO BIOLOGICAL reasoning for women’s attraction.  (there are also seems to be a some grumblings from men about a women’s need to be attracted in general, some men just seem to think women should accept any many who wants her, and damned her own biological preferences)

        However, women are expected to accept men’s hump and dump behavior as a normal biological urge.  They get a “biological” pass for humping and dumping.  They get a biological pass for who they are attracted to (the penis does the picking).

        Women who “sow their wild oats” in their teens, aren’t usually called “animalistic” they are usually called, sluts, whores, cunts, cum-dumpsters, sperm toilets, and whole list of other nasty names.  The men who gladly use these women, will gladly call them a whole slew of filthy names, that they would never apply to a man. (not all, or even most men of course).  Then they look for a virgin or near-virgin to marry.  There are websites devoted to teaching men how to “have fun with sluts”, then villify them afterwards. They use biological excuses for their double standard.

        If you are so outraged by double standards, why not go visit some “manosphere” websites and ask them if they would use terms like “slut, whore, cum-dumpers” to describe men ?

         

         

        1. Theodora

          The post I replied to called men “animalistic” for “spreading their disgusting oats” in their youth.

          In the spirit of fairness and for the sake of logic, we have two choices:

          a) Both men and women who sow their wild oats are animalistic.

          b) Neither men nor women who spread their wild oats are animalistic.

        2. SparklingEmerald

          OK, Theodora – I get it, you are being deliberately obtuse, you are intentionally missing the point of the post , and refusing to put it in context, and narrowly cherry picking 2 phrases out of context, to support your agenda.

          Also, nothing so wrong with humans having an “animalistic” side, as we are animals.  I wouldn’t call “oat spreading” to be disgusting, but it is disgusting when men spread their oats, and then villify women who accepted their oats, while excusing their own “oat spreading” behavior to “biology”

        3. Crazynopetlady

          I choose B- neither who spread their oats far and wide and with anyone who crosses their path is animalistic

          but we both know that isn’t so, don’t we?  We already know women who eff around aren’t exercising a biological imperative, they are driving ‘their value’ down as females.  Prove to me that attitude doesn’t exist, Theodora and I will bow to your mighty crap.

          I used such hyperbolic speech on purpose – I put mens’ actions in the same category they would be looked at as if they were female in ANY society ON EARTH.  Show me a society on earth where if females behaved like males, she would be applauded and you may have a point. But you can’t – in most societies on earth she would be stoned, shunned and possibly killed for behaving like a man does with impunity.

          Either men are disgusting or women are exercising a biological imperative just like they are – which is it?  I choose B – but how are we going to get society to agree with this?  We won’t – not while people like you exist.

          Women like taller men – deal with it. It’s our imperative and either accept it is part of us as females or don’t, but stop complaining about it. We know men will hump a plastic doll if he can’t find a passed out girl behind a dumpster or go to porn (such a lovely pastime, lol) – we know it, we protect ourselves as much as we can from it, and we accept that is the way men are. They are driven by their dicks – WE GET IT!!! They are more than happy to use us for sex and not care about our feelings – we ACCEPT that about them. WE GET IT. We might not like it but we get it. we can only try and not have anything to do with those men just like men can stay away from women who like taller men… Easy, right?  Somehow the female biological imperative seems a lot less destructive to humanity – but I’m not a short guy, so I’d be remiss to think I understood their angst about this.

        4. SparklingEmerald

          Hi Crazynopetlady (love your screen name :))

          I too hate the double standard (women who sleep around are called sluts, men who sleep around are high fived)

          What I would really like to see is some sort of meet in the middle standard, where no one is expected to be a virgin until marriage,  no one is “villified” for whatever consensual adult activities they engage in, and most people have sex withing caring relationships (and no one is “prude shamed” for holding out for a relationship OR holding out for marriage.)  But I would also really like to see my lottery numbers be the big winner, and high fat, high sugar foods cause weight loss and over all better health !

          I do think the double standard is waning, and there are segments of society that still hold women to higher standards and hold men to none, but there are segments of society that are more equitable.   Then I think there is a small but noisy sub-set of men who use every trick in the book to seduce women, then call them filthy names for giving them what they beg, pleaded and cajoled for.  I call them “slut makers”, not because I think the “sluts” are awful, but the men who engage in this behavior are awful, for willfully trying to “ruin” a woman.  Even in the 40’s and 50’s where women were expected to remain “pure” until marriage, men who “ruined” young girls were rather looked upon as cads.

          However, even among enlightened folks (people who don’t judge others by their sex life) there does seem to be a subtle double standard.  Some female dating coach (The Feminine Woman) wrote a “success story” about one of her friends or clients getting engaged to a hot “bad boy”.  She bragged that this man she got engaged to was a real player, with a harem, and who had 3 way sex.   To her, this was a prize, that she got such a “bad boy” to propose.   (Not much else was said about the relationship, accept it seemed to be a lot of drama and he was a bad boy who bedded many women)  Whatever.  (I only read her column for entertainment value, as I found her advice rather lame and at the level of teenagers)

          Now, can you imagine a male dating coach, or any male BRAGGING about how he “tamed a slutty girl”.  Can you imagine him saying, “My girl used to have 3 way sex with guys, and screwed her way through college, but she has accepted MY proposal, YIPPEE !”   Yea right “I am so proud that I made a slutty girl settle down” said NO GUY EVER !!!!

          In such a scenario, if a guy did marry a girl with a known “reputation”, he would speak of “forgiving her” or “understanding” or “not being judgemental”, but no guy would consider it a feather in his cap to marry an ex-stripper or a “bad girl”. He certainly wouldn’t brag about it.   But some woman would consider it a badge of honor to get a male player to settle down.

          There’s a reason why there is that old saying “Women want a bad boy who will be good JUST for them, and men want a good girl who will be BAD just for them.

        5. Crazynopetlady

          @sparkling emerald.  Very well said. (I hope this response goes where it’s supposed to – the reply buttons seem misplaced in the thread).  Double standards are crazy making and I’ve no doubt there are some on both sides however, none more damaging than the utter disrespect men (and some women) show women who exercise their sexual liberty like every man seems to want freedom to do with impunity or actually with accolades and back slaps.  Men are ferocious if they even get a whiff of a female exercising sexual liberty.

    2. 259.2
      Fank Johnson

       
      Do these words below look familiar?  Well, they should because they are yours.  Why do I bring these up?   They indicate the root problem that you cannot or will not accept, the basis of your disastrous relationships are based upon heightism.  You select a man based upon his inseam, not on his character, and you wonder why your marriages fail, as if height is an indicator of anything.  But rather than re-evaluate a flawed losing game plan, you double down on the same plan that has failed you your entire life.  Your life is the definition of insane or crazy as in Crazynopetlady, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
       
      “To the short men on here who are very bitter that their parents failed at comingling their DNA, I wonder if you could just see the fact that women want tall men…”
       
      “maybe you should just accept that a lot of women have a biological imperative for a taller man and stop complaining about it.”
       
       “I’ve been out with shorter men and they were rejected for other reasons over height but their height would have proved problematic in the end, anyway.”
       
      “Women like taller men – deal with it. It’s our imperative and either accept it is part of us as females…”
       
      But you said it better than I ever could, “I’d be the last person to know how to have a relationship because of my abysmal record.” 
       
      Here is some free advice, change your failing game plan, for your arrogant heightist attitude has gotten you nothing in life.  Get to know a man first, then measure his inseam, you might actually get a good man instead of a player.
       

  20. 260
    Susan

    I cannot tell you how many men I have met that have a sad tale about the much younger, beautiful woman that lured them into dating or marriage and then left them for a better deal.  Then I get to know the man, date him, commit to him at some level (marriage is not for me), and I find them controlling and jealous and when they realize they cannot control me with money or in any way, they often become angry and condescending.  These are the alpha males.  They want the beautiful woman, they’ll even pay for her, but they expect to control her.  I used to believe that there were such women as gold-diggers.  Now, I’m beginning to believe that these ‘deplorable’ women really are not so deplorable.  They are simply lured and landed in a “Pretty Woman” fashion, but after commitment, the men have expectations of control and no woman (or man) can live or love freely in a dictatorship.  There are men who would prefer to kill the very youth and beauty they initially fell in love with, by caging it.  All the men I’ve dated love my free spirit and independence and financial security – at first – but somewhere around the time of commitment, everything changes.  Why is it that I feel more secure upon a stated commitment and these men feel quite the opposite?  And the answer, I think, comes down to the alpha male personality.  They’ve attacked their prey, they have it at their feet, now they need to consume it or otherwise keep it for themselves.

    The power flip could not have been more evident than in my last relationship.  When we committed, he became jealous and angry when he did not know where I was every minute of every day.  God forbid my phone should run out of charge.  And at the same time, the sex slowed down significantly and became boring, as if he were punishing me.  Wtf?  So, I backed out of the commitment, and suddenly everything was good again…… no more monitoring of my every move and hot sex again.  What you have, you can not want.  He wanted me again.  I was prey again.

    So the answer is for smart successful women to be better at the game, because it is a game and it can be fun and interesting……….. as long as no one gets hurt.

    1. 260.1
      Crazynopetlady

      I’d be the last person to know how to have a relationship because of my abysmal record. two out of two became abusive. My experience has mirrored yours – commitment and then ensues insane controlling and jealousy. WTF?  They love me being independent and then complain when I don’t need them.. They love I have a full ife and then hate when I won’t cancel for them (despite them never cancelling for me – because their jobs are important – dontcha know?)

      It’s a mess out there. Everybody scrabbling for their corner and defending it to the death.  The whole macrocosm feels exactly like the microcosm of my marriage felt.  The same story heard over and over and over again. both sides defensive.  I feel injustice at the fact women are expected to lose their pride first to ‘save’ relationships.  I’m so tired of mens’ pride getting in the way of good communication, easy relating and genuine mutual respect.  I’ve only recently got my pride back after the last relationship and I won’t ever give it up first again. Men need to do some giving up of personal pride for the good of the relationship too. I simply can’t do it anymore.

      I’m also aware you called it a ‘game’ – that’s so sad to me.

  21. 261
    Theodora

    Sparkling Emerald,

    I don’t understand what your point is.

    1) I replied to a post calling men “animalistic” for sowing their wild oats. That is the whole context. I didn’t reply to the main story or other comments.

    2) Logically, if men are animalistic for having NSA sex, women are too. Or neither men nor women can be described as such.

    3) Nothing wrong with being animal-like in my opinion, the commenter I replied to implied this.

    4) The commenter I replied to described oats-sowing as disgusting (but only for men, it seems), not me.

    1. 261.1
      SparklingEmerald

      The poster was illustrating a double standard, men villifying women for their biological impulses (who they are attracted to) , while demanding to be accepted for their biological impulses.

      Logically if men can be excused from “spreading their oats” due to biology, then women should be excused for who they are and are not attracted to, as attractions is mostly due to biology.

      That WAS the point of the post, and the “disgusting oats” part was used to prove the MAIN point about double standards.  (Men get a pass on all of their behavior due to “biology” women never being allowed a “biological” pass for anything.

       

      You chose to cherry pick the writers supporting arguments for her main idea,  to prop up your agenda, and totally ignored the main idea of the post.  (women being expected to ignore thier biology, while men are allowed free reign of their “biology”.

       

      1. 261.1.1
        Crazynopetlady

        Yes, exactly SparklingEmerald. Of course I used that language to show a huge double standard.  My very most un-favourite thing between the sexes is double standards.  Hyperbolic speech was used on purpose.   Women ARE expected to ignore our biology on so many, many levels because of society, while men seem to have free reign.  I’ve found all of your posts educated and enlightening.

        1. Theodora

          I really don’t know in what world you live. Women are celebrated, even glorified for sleeping around, sowing their wild oats and “exploring their sexuality”. It’s enough to read a random newspaper, to turn on the TV, to go to the cinema or theatre. Women who chose polyamory or who left their husbands for an “alternative lifestyle” are interviewed as role models on CNN and BBC, in the pages of NYT or Washington Post. Amy Schumer in “Trainwreck” (and Amy Schumer in general, with her jokes about one-night-stands and the yeast infection the morning after) is presented as a symbol of the contemporary woman.

          Usually, these oats-sowing women are described in the media and the entertainment industry the way our ancestors described the heroes on the battlefield: brave, bold, daring, inspiring, wonderful human beings. It sounds like they are the Ullysses of our time.

          Meanwhile, in the same media and entertainment outlets, the tone changes drastically when it comes to oats-sowing men. They are manwhores (“animalistic”, as you put it), jerks, assholes, Peter Pans, commitmentphobes, shitlords, shitty human beings who disrespect women and in general misogynistic pieces of crap.

          And Heaven forbid if any man, even if he is sexually restricted himself, has the audacity to say that he wouldn’t marry a woman like Amy Schumer in “Trainwreck”.  The hopeless villain will be called slut-shamer, insecure, not a real man, a man with low self-esteem, a virgin neckbeard living in his mother’s basement, a loser, and again – the cherry on top – a misogynistic piece of crap.

          This is the agitprop regarding the sex lives of men and women.

          It seems that what bothers you and Sparkling Emerald – when you consider just a detail that shouldn’t even be noticed to call oats-sowing men “animalistic” while being suddenly outraged at the suggestion that oats-sowing women belong to the same category – is the fact that some people still don’t buy the propaganda described above. You would like a world in which men are admonished for “spreading their disgusting oats”, while women are excused for naturally following their biological imperative. Too bad it doesn’t happen yet.

          (PS  I’m a woman, not a man)

        2. Pk

          Thank you for speaking up. Seems that most men want to be allowed to do or say or desire whatever they want and then try to shut women down for having wants and wishes.

  22. 262
    SparklingEmerald

    “You would like a world in which men are admonished for “spreading their disgusting oats”, while women are excused for naturally following their biological imperative”

    I want no such thing, and if you got that out my posts, then I apologise for accusing you of being deliberately obtuse, you really ARE that obtuse.

     

    1. 262.1
      CJ

      I also do not want a world where men are admonished while women are excused.  You are also reading into what I wrote with entirely wrong insinuations.  AND if you REALLY believe that women aren’t called sl*** and wh***** for doing EXACTLY what men are applauded for, then you aren’t living on the same planet that I and my daughters are living on or you are SERIOUSLY out of touch with the manosphere and general attitudes out there.  The examples you quote are entirely diminutive against the veritable WAVE of double standards that exist around sexual activity between the two genders.

      You are out of touch and basically entirely and bizarrely incorrect.

  23. 263
    Insidious_Sid

    Short guys need a short-acceptance movement… 😉

    1. 263.1
      Pk

      Just like you defend men who are “short guys”,  then you in turn, must  respect  “narrow hip- small boob women” .
         You are out of your mind if you think women are not.attracted to a young, hot dude with a youthful and well built body. They are.
       Women are visual too. Men hate to admit this. They try to downplay this.  Men are afraid to think that their wife or girlfriend also looks at other men.

  24. 264
    Marika

    Thanks for clarifying, Dee Gee. I appreciate it. Sorry it’s been tough out there.

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