What Percent of People Respond to Your Initial Emails on Match.com?

As you may know, before I became a dating coach, I was a prolific online dater.

I tried every site around, starting in the late 90’s. Matchmaker.com. Nerve.com. JDate.com. Match.com. eHarmony.com. Chemistry.com. And probably a few others that are escaping my memory right now. These days, PlentyOfFish.com and OkCupid.com are the two free online dating players worthy of your consideration.

But from both my personal experience and my coaching experience, I’ve learned that most people tend to fail in online dating and then blame the website.

This is like blaming the gym because you didn’t lose weight.

Site are just big boxes of single people who are trying to meet each other. Nobody shows them how to come up with clever usernames. Nobody teaches them what photos to post. Nobody illustrates how to create a unique, compelling online dating profile. Nobody teaches effective email techniques based on actual research.

This is the way normal people talk when they go to parties. They don’t tap you on the shoulder and say, “You look cute. I think we have a lot in common. Let’s go out.”

The closest anybody gets is OkCupid – and all they do is give you test results – approximately 27% of people respond to first emails, overall – they don’t show you HOW to write great first emails.

So if you’ve been frustrated with your results in online dating (and one look at the comments below indicates that you ARE), there are a number of things you can do differently to get different results. One of the most powerful ones has to do with writing first emails. Consider what most people say:

Subject: Hi

Text: Hey Pat102. I read your profile and you seem really cool. I liked your photos. You have a great smile and I think we have a lot in common, too. I noticed that you have a dog. I also have a dog. What kind do you have? Where do you like to walk your dog? Maybe we can get together sometime. So, check out my profile and if you like what I have to say, I really hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely, Chris.

If you’ve ever received an email like this, you know it sucks. But then why do you also WRITE emails like this as well? My theory is because it’s easiest – it’s what comes naturally to you. So you don’t put much thought into it, and, not surprisingly, it doesn’t get very good results. Why would it? There’s nothing funny, interesting, compelling, or different about such an email. Plus, it compliments the recipient too much – as if Chris is just praying that he/she is good enough for Pat102. No wonder Pat doesn’t respond to this display of weakness.

First emails are best when you offer your opinion of something specific in the person’s profile – but instead of doing what you normally do: “I agree. I like popcorn, too!”, you actually say something disagreeable, controversial, silly, or playful. Make an observation. Be sarcastic. Come up with a joke. Anything other than, “I like you. I like what you said. Please, please, please consider going out with me.”

For example, if someone says in his profile that he likes Costa Rica, you think about all the things you know about Costa Rica and search your brain for a humorous angle. Something other than, “I’ve heard it’s beautiful there! Tell me more!” Personally, I don’t know ANYTHING about Costa Rica, but I do know that all of my left-wing, liberal, neo-hippie friends go on yoga retreats there. Literally, the only reason I’ve even heard of Costa Rica is because of yoga.

So I use this in my email:

Subject: Yoga-Retreat Island

Hey, Pat. I have to be honest with you. I don’t know anything about Costa Rica; I think it’s in the Caribbean or Central America or something like that. All I know is that all of my left-wing yoga friends go on week-long retreats there every year. Which makes me wonder: what does it look like when you fly in at the airport? As the plane is descending, do you see 25,000 people doing down dog at the same exact time? Are there 25,000 more people who are ziplining from tree to tree? Inquiring minds want to know.

Talk soon, Chris.

You didn’t talk about yourself. You didn’t talk about the person you were writing to. You didn’t compliment the other person. You didn’t brag about yourself or sell yourself or ask anyone on any dates. You just made a silly observation about Costa Rica.

This is the way normal people talk when they go to parties. They don’t tap you on the shoulder and say, “You look cute. I think we have a lot in common. Let’s go out.”

It all starts with a little bit of witty banter.This technique is known as the Opinion Opener technique and it’s worked like a charm for thousands of women and men who’ve bought my Finding the One Online audio series.

If you’re sick of online dating – all the wrong people writing to you and the right people not writing back, here are four simple things I will teach you to do:

* You can come up with a new username/headline.
* You can post different online dating photos
* You can write a better online dating profile.
* You can improve your email technique.

All of this is explained in fascinating detail in Finding the One Online – with 7 hours of audio, a 180 page transcript and a 35 page workbook.

Click here to see for yourself how to make more people respond to your initial emails on Match.com.

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Comments:

  1. 91
    Dean

    Depends on who your emailing…if they’re super hot, then it’s a fat chance you’ll get a response.  Batting in your own league might get more responses.  Girls are picky (most girls that is) and they get bored easily.  Even if you are a good looking guy, you have to understand that there is a huge barrier between you and them which you must get past before you’re in.  Match.com shouldn’t be the only tool in your tool kit.  Your best chance is getting out there in person at places other than bars and clubs.  Also, FB is a good place since girls are naturally more trusting of men that are somehow connected to their social network.  Don’t waste your time barking up a tree that you will never climb.  That means no long emails, no research into profiles.  I’ve had great success on online dating websites, but it’s because I keep it simple and move on when I think I may be wasting my time.  What do you do when you are first introduced to someone?  You say hi.  Well that’s pretty much how short my emails are.  I say “Hi”, and “How are you.”  Also, I look at two things, their pictures and their job.  You can pretty much gleam everything you need to know about someone from these two things.  Who cares about their nerdy bios???  Time is valuable, don’t waste it!

  2. 92
    Goldie

    @ 95



    Also, I look at two things, their pictures and their job.  You can pretty much gleam everything you need to know about someone from these two things.  Who cares about their nerdy bios???
     
    LMAO, did I ever date you Dean?? This is so wrong and hilarious at the same time.
     
    What do you do when you are first introduced to someone?  You say hi.  Well that’s pretty much how short my emails are.  I say “Hi”, and “How are you.”
     
    “Hi” works fine when you are first introduced in a social setting, at an event you both came to because you both wanted to be there, by someone you both know. Not online. Never have I ever responded to a “hi” email. To me it says “I’d hit anything on this site that today’s random search has dragged in, if its photos look good enough. Today, it just happened to be you, whoever you are. Congratulations, you’re the winner!” Um, nope. 
     
    Only thing I totally agree with in your comment, is “no long emails”. A loooong email says “I’m a desperate dude who loves to hear himself talk”, and why would anyone want to go out with that? Besides, I’ve never been able to finish reading one! I’d say keep it under five lines if you’re a man, two lines if you’re a woman.
     
    Also, FB is a good place since girls are naturally more trusting of men that are somehow connected to their social network.
     
    This is the second time I’m hearing this from a man, and I do not get it. How? how can any social network where people have their parents, children, bosses, and clients on their friends list, be a “good place” for meeting new people and dating? Besides, mine is locked down pretty tight, same is true for most people I know. Might be the case for school/college-age kids, but not my age group.

  3. 93
    James B

     
    For a lot of men, this is almost a pointless discussion. If you’re below 5ft 10, you should consider other ways of meeting women particularly a setting were personality can be important. Online dating is likely to be a source of much frustration & consternation. It doesn’t matter whether you’re successful, write a good profile, decent looking, in shape bla bla bla, being short or shorter than average is the absolute kiss of death online. You’ll be ignored….a lot! And few women will actively search for you either. Cold harsh reality I’m afraid!
    Similarly if you’re a girl who’s fat and/or ugly, don’t waste your time either! Most men have only emailed you because the good looking ones ignored them. Harsh but true. They’ll likely only want to meet you for sex and if that’s not on the cards, they’ll flake on you too. 

    1. 93.1
      Ronn

      TOTALLY AGREE with you!!! I am much below 5,10 and still girls hit on me ALL the time in a club/bar but when it comes to online dating I hardly get any response from women! lol

  4. 94
    justme

    Soooo . . . I have a match profile that is not active and I don’t log on.  The other day, I received email notification from Match saying I had received a message.  I thought it was a gimmack to get me to sign up again. 

    That would be funny if it was from Andre.  Haha. 

  5. 95
    Sam

    Hi, 
          I too joined match and trust me If you are an average guy who earns just a little over 100k you are much better trying your luck at a bar or any other social event. I am a average looking(before match I actually thought I was handsome) 29 year old guy and wrote personal emails to about 107 girls and got no responses I kept deteriorating to way older and not that great looking girls but still no luck. I guess It is true girls get around 100-200 emails a day and if there is someone checking match in 2-3 days it can really get overwhelming Plus half of those girls aren’t even paid members so All your compositions are never going to be read. So far this one week of match has been so much of a confidence killer Its almost like voting for American Idol and expecting a date. Now I check the singles party and attend those. You have more girls than guys and decent ones and guess what you already have a date. and to all the REAL guys out there its my serious advise get out of the house and win a lady. with match you will have to settle for way less that is if you do get a response   

  6. 96
    Ivan

    Hey everyone,

    I guess this is kind of a great venting room for us all.  I do think the whole online dating is completely ridiculous and girls on there often use it for ego boosts.  I just signed up for match three days ago and have sent out 53 emails so far.  Reponses:  ZERO.  I was prepared for very lil’ reponse as that is what I’ve heard from friends as well.  Needless to say I will end my trial session in 7days.  I am in my early 30s athletic make good money, am kind hearted and loyal yet I get absolutely no responses.  It is rather diheartening but I refuse to believe that I am not a catch just because some super superficial girls or on these sites.  And mind you I’m not “ugly”.  If anything I’ve been told on many occassions I’m very good looking not just from exes but strangers too.  It just seems like if you aren’t 6’2″  blonde haired and blued eyed stereotypical “high status” looking male the girls online want nothing to do with you.  All guys here I say keep your heads up.  Don’t believe the bs out there online and get outside to meet girls.  I know I will be doing that myself tomorrow!!  =oP  And I’ll say my “hit ratio” in real life is closer to one in 3 I’ll get a number and a date.  

    Cheers men…keep your heads up!
    Ivan  

  7. 97
    still looking

    Ivan @ 99 –
    Don’t give up, it’s only been 3 days!

    If you live in a large city, the attractive women are going to be overwhelmed with emails.  Instead of being the hunter, kick back and try being the hunted.  Post plenty of great pics and write a great profile.

    I don’t know if the response rate actually varies depending on what size city you live in but I know a couple of other guys in the 40-50 age group on Match have no problem in my city of about 250k.  Then again, it might just be that women in your age group are ultra-selective.

    Best of luck. 

  8. 98
    ADW

    I’m a 25 year-old male. I make decent money for a full-time job, am finishing work on a Bachelor’s, and have been told by female friends that I am attractive. Actually, at a recent meeting with some women I went to high school with who did not find me particularly attractive then, several told me that I “got hot.” I don’t do anything wild or crazy, but I usually have no problem entertaining friends. Basically, in spite of an arduous struggle in childhood, everything has been coming together very nicely for me in the past couple years.
     
    That said, I get no messages whatsoever on any dating site, be it responses or profile-generated interest. I have friends and acquaintances who have weight problems, addictions, or weird complexes (one’s a diagnosed sociopath) who have had no issues in this area of life whatsoever, and yet, this does not seem to be coming together in my case.

  9. 99
    Pat

    So I have been on match for what seems like forever. My experience seems to go up and down. I read a lot of the responses on here, glanced at a few and I think what guys need to take into consideration is the time of the year. Right now, my match account is cancelled, cc issues that I may fix after my date Saturday if things don’t go well. This is a busy time of the year, however it is a good time of the year. New Years is coming up and match should see an influx of women coming in. Also, internet dating is becoming socially acceptable with the rise of FB and Twitter.
    I haven’t looked at my response rate, but I would guess it is in the 25% rate. I am tall (6’1) and in decent shape. Could stand to lose 10-15. I play hockey and have a great smile with nice teeth. The women who usually email me are over weight. The women I email are pretty to hot and sometimes I get responses from the hot ones because I write short, witty emails. However, that is rare. Usually I just get read.

    It is hard to put inflections in text or make something seem a little dirty when it reads clean. Unless you are a wordsmith, then it is hard to do that. I think your profile takes a lot of time to work, experiment with different email, try long and custom or short and witty. That is the benefit of internet dating, it costs $20-30 a month, look how much you would have to spend on bars trying to hit on women. Gas money to get there, then beer to drink, if you liked mixed drinks, that gets even more expensive.
    If I had to add up all of the women I have met from match over a 2 year period, I would say I have meet about 15-20 women. And out of those women, I had sex with about 3 of them. I try not to sleep around, but it is really hard not to when they text you to come over and handle business.

    I also think a lot of communication is based upon where you live and the population density is. I live in the Silicon Valley which is heavily populated. I also take into consideration what the women are looking for, if they want someone within 10-15 miles of SF and you live 50 away, you are lowering your chance of response, because you are emailing outside of her requirements. That is then skewing your results decreasing your response because you are using the shot gun method. You know what they say, quality over quantity.
    I think I put some helpful comments in what I wrote. Good luck fishing. I’m also curious to see what other sites people are on besides match, if that is OK to post.

  10. 100
    mellie charnalia

    I’m a 36 y/o female living in new york. I write a lot of emails and have used Evan’s ebook in both creating my profile and figuring out how to write emails. I’m on match and ok cupid. Less than 10% of men write back to me. It’s strange because Evan’s approach makes a lot of sense, so I figured that I’d get a huge response. I do get a lot of compliments on my profile, but often from men on the other side of the country or significantly, significantly older. Maybe the “competition” is too high in nyc. I am a little surprised that as a woman, so few men are responding to my emails. I’m reading this particular post to see if other women have the same experience.

  11. 101
    Zaq

    Listen up men, internet dating does not work for most guys.
    There is no way to show charm, sense of humor, and your awesome personality.

    You will be judged on your height, your salary, your age, your race.
    There is a lot of evidence based on thousands of dating site interactions that show that only the top men are being responded to.

    Think about it, how is it possible for women to be overwelmingly successful, and men to be overwelmingly UNsuccessful AT THE SAME TIME ?

    This can only be possible if a comparatively small number of men are getting most of the replies. Of course if the women actually succeed in dating any of these guys, they will probably eventually get rejected anyway so it doesn’t work for them either really.

    1. 101.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Listen up, Zaq. I built a business around the concept that there is such a thing as successful online dating. If 17% of all marriages in the past 3 years started online…it seems to me that there are MANY successful men. It’s not just the “top 17%”, that’s for sure. Most of the players just keep on playing.

      So what I deduce from your statement is that you’re just not successful, that’s all – and you’re extrapolating your experience as if it’s all men’s experience. It’s not. I dated online as a 5’9″ guy who made less than $30K a year. What did I have going for me that allowed me to get responses when guys like you were being rejected? A creative profile and funny first emails. Try working on that, instead of saying that an entire medium that 50 million people have tried does not work.

  12. 102
    Zaq

    Evan

    I completely agree that it is possible to improve your chances on a dating website by making your profile more interesting. Those following your advice WILL improve their chances.

    BUT, online dating is deeply flawed. If I remember correctly the statistic on marriages was from all online activity and not just dating websites, who only accounted for half (or so, cant remember exact figures.)
    So I stand by my statement that for MOST men it doesn’t work. Given the huge amount of singles who have tried online dating, every other person you meet should have met online. The OKCupid founder showed that using Match’s own data, it wasn’t working well.

    Of the friends I know who have used it over the last few years (about 5), they are still single. I did meet a couple earlier this year who met online, BUT not using a dating website. Interestingly the woman was significantly less attractive. I know someone, who knows someone who did meet using a dating web site. We all knows someone who knows someone.

    I fully accept your view that there is no other viable alternative. I guess Facebook will probably replace the Match type dating method.

     

  13. 103
    justme

    Just a thought to all of US who look at someone’s picture and think they are not attractive enough to respond to their email.  (I thought about this when I read Sean beantown (89) and Dean (94). 

    I went out on a date on Saturday with a guy who I met online.  He’s a photographer and said he wanted to take better pictures of me because I’m so much more beautiful in person.  I am not photogenic.  I never look very good in pictures.  So if you are looking at their pictures and think they are ok looking, maybe give them a chance. 

  14. 104
    Saint Stephen

    Evan, you seem to be forgetting that you look “hot”- if the pics and vids i’ve actually seen on your BLOG happens to be you.
    Women will be more willing to forgive your low income, if you compensated for it with your good looks.  Hence Zaq is right when he says the top few percentage of men in looks and income departments- gets the women.
    And of course you should also know the 17% of marriages never indicated the men’s income or looks.

  15. 105
    James

     
    With the greatest respect Evan, I think you over-estimate what a creative profile and good first emails will do. Moreover, I’d agree with ‘Saint Stephen’ that you’re certainly an above average looking bloke. This helps a lot, as does being taller than average.
     
    I know a guy who’s 6ft 3, is pretty decent looking but has a rubbish profile and risible first emails (Copy + Paste variety) yet always dates nice looking girls online. On the other hand, another friend who’s 5ft 6, is slightly above average looking, has a great career, wrote a funny profile on Match/always tailors his emails, simply cannot get any attention at all. When I’ve been online in the past, I’ve been firmly in the middle (I’m 5ft 9) e.g semi successful online but can attract far better offline.
     
    Writing funny/creative emails is extremely hard when the vast majority of profiles are dull and use the same ridiculous clichés – I like walks along the beach, I like travelling, I like going to gigs, I’m spontaneous, I like curling up on the sofa with a bottle of wine but also like going out bla bla bla bla. So inevitably people are going to judge you based on attractiveness and most women are very fussy online because they receive a torrent of emails every single day.
     
    Having a broad social circle has always been more effective. The more people you know, the more successful you’ll likely to be in meeting that special someone (friends of friends etc so you’ll already have something in common). Thus, if someone has a small social circle were it’s difficult to meet new people, they should think about joining clubs etc where they can meet like minded individuals.
     
    Of the 100 or so people I know, about 40 have tried online dating at some point and only 3 have had long term success off there. It certainly works but if my experience is indicative (which it appears to be), it’s fairly limited.

    1. 105.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      James, you can have a broad social circle and still not come close to finding love. You can join a dance class and meet 7 new people. You can go hiking and meet 15 more. And you can dance, hike, go to bars, and STILL come home and date online effectively. One doesn’t preclude the other. So, to this guy who has mastered online dating and teaches others to do it more effectively, your friends’ failure to succeed says far more about your friends than it does online dating.

  16. 106
    Sayanta

    Mellie-

    I’ve had the same exp as you as I’ve gotten older – at 29 I got 40% response rate- now about 10% at 33. No, I haven’t gained weight. ;)

  17. 107
    kpak

    Well, my experience has been virtually zero.  I have probably sent out almost a hundred emails, all of them personalized but like James said you can only personalize so much towards a really general profile.  Out of them all I have received 1 reply.  I met this person, but she wasn’t exactly what I was looking for.  I am 5’`10 and have been told I am actually very attractive.  But I look horrible in pictures, I’m just not photogenic at all.  I like to think I am charming, polite, and I have a good job as well.  So I think I have a lot to offer, but I still don’t get responses.  I have also never been contacted initially either online.  It’s funny, at a bar girls will walk right up to me, but online I am avoided like the plague. 

  18. 108
    Zaq

    I agree with most of what Evan says in his last reply, except for the bit about it being all our friends fault for not being successful at online dating. Sorry, but the recommendation here is to ‘game the system’. In other words trying to bring yourself out from the pack, so that you get noticed. This can only work if fundamentally the system doesnt function properly.
    Or to put it another way, if everyone was playing the same game to get noticed, it wouldn’t work at all.
    We know for a fact that women are fundamentally choosing on looks, height, income and age. The desperate ones may loosen up a bit on one or two of those variables.

  19. 109
    James

     
    I didn’t necessarily say that you shouldn’t use online dating as an additional tool but meeting people offline for the vast majority of people is far more effective. You may join all these groups and not immediately find love but I can safely say from personal experience that I’ve never been as successful with the opposite sex since leaving University. And why is that? I had a very active social life at Uni and had the time to join lots of clubs/societies and consequently meet loads of new people who I’d something in common with.
     
    Back to online dating and with the greatest respect Evan, you could sprinkle some of your magic on my 5 ft 6 pal’s profile and I doubt it would have any measurably positive effect. He tailors all his emails ((ubject line referencing something off her profile + a few lines of text which demonstrates he’s actually looked at her profile) and the response rate is pretty poor. He’s decent looking, has a great career (earns close to 6 figures and he’s only 30), is very funny and is a great catch despite being somewhat vertically challenged. Whilst he’s never been a player, he had quite a few girlfriends’ at Uni. So the fault really doesn’t lie with him at all. You could of course tell my friend to lower his standards i.e. email all the women who describe themselves as curvy – which in most cases is a polite euphemism for fat. He may have more success but what does that tell you? Some women are more desperate than others.
     
    On the other hand and as stated previously, I have a friend who’s 6ft 3/good looking but his profile is unremarkable/full of clichés, has quite a few spelling/grammatical errors (he’s very dyslexic) despite being relatively breviloquent, puts no effort into his emails whatsoever (bulk copy & paste variety), yet probably has close to a 40% response rate. What does that tell you? A good/funny profile and creative emails are not that important in the scheme of things. Being good looking and/or tall online are far more important.
     
    So for the average guy it seems like a lot of hard work for a rather mediocre response rate. As you’ve talked about before, the competition is absolutely fierce online and most men know that a scatter gun approach is needed e.g. he emails 50 girls, hopes that 10 respond, puts his effort into the top 3 and either flakes on the other 7 or keeps them on a backburner just in case the top 3 flake. It’s not especially healthy for anyone and explains why a lot of people don’t have a good word to say about online dating.

    1. 109.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      James, we can go back and forth on this. However, you’re immersed in some irrational thinking that’s shading your perspective.

      Simply put: do “hot” men and “hot” women get more attention online? Duh. That’s not news. But they get more attention in real life as well. The difference is that everyone has ACCESS to them online. Which means that every man’s gonna take a shot at the Maxim model and every woman’s gonna take a shot at the 6’3″ square jawed investment banker. So what? There’s only a handful of people like that online and they sort themselves out.

      Then there’s everyone else in the universe who is still looking for a date.

      Where do single people have greater access to other single people? Jake’s Brew House? San Pedro Community College’s Intro to Spanish? Nope. Match.com. Not even close.

      Given the time and cost it takes for you to go out, have drinks and pick up women in a given night: three or four hours, fifty-plus dollars… and maybe get one phone number, I can write creative, confident emails to five women and have two write back. Takes me less than an hour. Costs me less than a dollar a day. And I can do it every day if I want.

      Your blind spot is that you STILL think that the “scattergun approach” is RIGHT. It’s not about emailing 50 at a time and getting 10 responses. You seem like a good guy, but you’re outing your own lack of understanding about what it takes to succeed on Match.com with each comment you post. Do online dating properly as a supplement to real life. But I can tell you, as a guy who went out in real life from 25-35, and dated online as well, I had FAR greater returns online. Which means that SOMEONE can do it, apparently.

      Oh, and your 5’6″ friend has to recognize that a woman may have to lower HER standards to go out with him. Humility is pretty important when it comes to dating.

  20. 110
    James

     
    @Evan,
     
    I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but I on the other hand, have been far more successful offline. I’m a reasonably attractive guy who’s slightly shorter than average (5ft 9) but has a good job (in fact I run a well renowned consultancy service), earns a decent amount of money (upwards of £50k per year) and is generally very gregarious/funny. Obviously I’m not the absolute best catch in the entire world but I haven’t done too badly in life – perhaps better when I was younger ;-)
     
    However, online, my luck has been mediocre at best. I think the major problem is projecting my personality and charm is difficult. I’ve always tailored my emails (subject line and email which reference their profile and I’ve always done that in a friendly/funny & non-formal way) so wouldn’t advocate a ‘cut & paste’ scattergun approach. Nevertheless, most men need to send a lot of emails and this requires a lot of time. I’ve probably got a 20-25% response rate overall and have regrettably sometimes emailed girls who I wouldn’t have looked twice at in real life but who came across well in their profile. The major reason why I’ve used online dating is that I work long/punishing hours (50+ per week) and it can be difficult to sometimes meet like minded people. Nevertheless, I have now resolved to find more time for social pursuits. It simply didn’t work for me. Maybe that’s my fault but I know lots of others who feel the same way.
     
    Moreover, I think the reason why online dating doesn’t work for the vast majority of men is that you’ll likely get lost in the mix particularly if you don’t deviate from the average (in a good way). Sending creative emails may help to a small extent but I suspect the reason why you’ve had success in the past is because you’re an attractive bloke and unsurprisingly this helps enormously! ;-) FYI, I set up a fake profile (obviously a woman) on POF a couple of years back and the amount of emails it got was bewildering. And most of the emails were really really lame! I can understand why girls are jaded by the whole process. However, I can also see why they may gain a distorted sense of their own importance online and thus become pickier over time. As a man, I think you need to catch women when they’ve just joined, when they’re online, on their birthday’s etc but it’s still far from perfect.
     
    Changing the subject, I think you’ve perhaps misunderstood me to a certain extent. I’d never advocate going out on the pull/bar and club scene particularly as you get older. It’s not a good setting to find someone you have something in common with. From my personal experience, I’ve found that relationships happen when you almost least expect them to. I don’t think people should join clubs to find someone but do it to expand their horizons, and their social circle. If they happen to find a partner as a consequence, then that’s great. Nearly all my previous relationships have happened through a friend of a friend and I don’t think this is a coincidence tbh.

  21. 111
    Zaq

    Totally agree with James.The point is that women will adjust who they think they can get, based on who they see is available. As shown in many dating studies, average men will not get a look in if a top class male is (seemingly) available.Contrast this with an article in a recent psychology magazine I read where the councillor recommended that a client stopped wasting time looking for attractive men (read tall, rich) online as constant failure would result in a loss of self esteem. She recommended the client spent more time just partaking in activities that she enjoyed. As an addendum, she said that the client had found love as a result of spending time with a short, bald guy that she had known since school.So, I don’t agree that women have to lower their standards. They have to CHANGE their standards.If there is no way that a guy can show the value of personality and charm and status, then women online are in no position to assess the true value of the men, and will default to basic ‘numbers’. I must say that it appears in my experience, that women can take some time to  appreciate these other factors. It doesn’t seem to work in speed dating for instance.I have known short men who have landed extremely attractive girlfriends. I cannot imagine any of these women thinking that they had lowered their standards. This could rarely happen online.

  22. 112
    Ellen

    Well, my bf and I broke up a couple of weeks ago, so I’m back on match. :(

    As before, when my profile seems new to guys (and I took off liking younger guys ’cause it intimidated a lot of men), I get positive responses to 8/10 emails I send out. Usually.

    I used to like okcupid, but can’t get many responses there lately, not sure why. Here in SC match.com seems to be where it’s at. That and POF which I loathe.

  23. 113
    Alan

    Tom, I completely agree with you. Women on dating websites are very shallow. Never ever do they initiate contact, and a reply will happen only if you are 6′ 2″ with a face like brad pitt and a body like matthew mcconaughey. Seriously, I am not emailing the most attractive women out there. The emails are tailored for each person, and they are thoughtful and well written. My profile is good, and I am an attractive guy–I often get looks or compliments in person, I get no courtesy replies, no thanks, nothing from match.com! Maybe 21-24 yr. old girls who join dating sites online are more shallow than the older girls because it seems like a lot of people are commenting that they have high success rates.

    1. 113.1
      Steve

      Alan, your comment explains why online dating is going to crash, burn and disappear in the next few years, if not sooner. The word is getting out that men have no chance of succeeding online unless they’re Superman – you know, tall, good-looking, rich, etc.
      I mean, why play a game that is slanted in favour of the other side from the get-go, costs you money, and ultimately gets you nowhere?

  24. 114
    Michael17

    I am a guy who is in his late 30’s, and I would say my unsolicited contact response rate is in the 20%–25% range. I am decent-looking, but I am only 5’8″. I have a well-written profile and my first emails are fairly short. For the most part, when it comes to first emails, less really is more.
     
    When I started OLD I wanted to be “nice” and respond to everyone (whose profile wasn’t a fake that is) who wrote me first or who winked at me. But I soon gave that up. Not because of the volume or anything–I get maybe one unsolicited indicator of interest a month. The big reason is that is it really “nice” to tell a woman who put herself out there (and who has a well-written profile) that her looks just doesn’t do it for you? Seems kinder to just ignore. Another reason is that most of the women contacting me first are far outside of what I am looking for and what I say in my profile that I am looking for. If they aren’t going to respect my time and heed what I put in my profile, why should I respect their efforts with a response back? I don’t begrudge them for liking my profile and for going for what they want in life, but I put what I put into my text for a reason.
     
    When I write someone unsolicited, I don’t expect a response back. They just don’t owe me one.

  25. 115
    Zaq

    Alan@119

    Having given this much thought, I don’t think anyone is shallow. It is as natural for them to desire tall, healthy and wealthy males as it is for you to desire young, healthy women. That is how we are programmed.
    The point I keep making, is that in real life people very quickly realise what the quality of the opposite sex they can attract is. Online, women especially, can not.
    As far as 21-24 year old women are concerned, dating statistics show that men of their age far out number them on dating websites. Additionally they are at their peak in terms of attractiveness and so will be approached by older men who may also have the status, wealth, height you name it, that they want. I would suggest that you will face far less competition in the real world.

    And then we have the distorted views of self prevalent on this site, and l guess in OLD too. The great irony is that if you have a high level of self esteem, you will probably also have a more distorted view of your true level of attractiveness.
    It is a fact that nearly half of all people have less than average looks.
    And yet most women on this site seem to consider themselves at least a 7, when they are far more likely to be less than a 5.
    “I look much younger than my age” – ehr, no you don’t
    “I may not be Brad Pitt, but” – distinctly average then
     
    Worse, studies have shown that if you give negative feed back to people with high self esteem it results in high level of emotional stress.
    Where else are you going to get higher levels of rejection than OLD ?
    Hence the degree of anger and frustration shown above.

  26. 116
    Neil

    I’ve been using online dating on and off for over four years: over two with match, about one with POF, and coming up to one year with OKCupid.

    Match was easily the worst; I reckon one reply to every fifty emails probably just about sums it up. POF wasn’t much better, although a lot of the women on there seemed to be prick-teasers  – happy to email back and forth but never willing to commit to actually meeting up.

    OKCupid started promisingly – in my first month or so I probably got replies to about half my messages, and even managed to get two actual, real life dates. It dropped off rapidly after that though, and I’ve not had a single reply to any of my last 73 messages. My particular favorite are those who respond enthusiastically and give out all the right signals about being interested, before disappearing and never logging back in again, or blocking me in the middle of a discussion.

    On match I got winked at four or five times a week and followed every one up with an email which almost never got replied to. On POF and OKC I got maybe one email a month, usually from someone miles away who’d make a baby hippo look slim. I’ve replied to every message I’ve ever received on all three sites, even just to say “I’m afraid we’re not suited to each other, but good luck in your search.”

    My female friends tell me I’m attractive, witty and smart as well as a “true gentleman.” I’m in good shape, financially very sound, have a full head of hair and – at the age of 36 – am never married with no children. All my messages are literate, thought-out and tailored.

    Logic and my close friends keep telling me that I should be something of a catch yet all my experience with online dating tells me that I am somehow repellant to women and it’s getting to the point where I genuinely feel that I’m better off alone than being totally ignored online.

  27. 117
    Sayanta

    Neil

    What race are you, if you don’t mind my asking? I think the OK Cupid survey we talked about here recently pretty much said white males who are young, educated, and attractive are the winners in OLD. Take “white” out of the equation, and it’s waayyy harder to get lucky online,

    But if you are a white dude, I have no explanation

  28. 118
    Neil

    Sayanta

    I’m white, but at 5’10” I’m not massively tall. Maybe that’s it? As you point out, there is no sane explanation other than that OLD is not all it’s cracked up to be and the odds are stacked massively against men. 

  29. 119
    Sayanta

    Neil-

    Women are fine with 5’10- I am definitely, and I’m 5’7. Weird, I don’t know…

    Oh well, send me an email, I’ll reply, ;-p

  30. 120
    John

    I’ve been getting about a 1% success rate. I have numerous women reply to initial emails, only to be stuck in pen pal mode.  They never commit to an actual live meeting.  The 2 dates I’ve actually been on, live in person meetings, were a big disappointment and did not turn into anything meaningful.

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