How You Misunderstand Your Dates and How It Backfires

Did you ever wonder after a date why he didn’t call back?

Did you ever think you had a great time, but were shocked to discover that he didn’t feel the chemistry?

It’s really common – for both men and women – but if you’ve never bothered to put yourself in the shoes of the opposite sex, you may be killing your chances to find love.

Translating men to women is what I do best.

Your perspective on sex is way different than his perspective – and how neither of them is wrong!

Women want the potential for love. Men want the potential for sex.

Each time you go on a date, you have an agenda. You may not be conscious of it, but every man you meet causes you to ask these questions:

Is he polite to the waiter?
Does he reach for the check instantly?
Does he talk positively about other women?
Is he pressuring me for physical contact?
Does he want to learn more about me?
Is he looking for a long-term relationship?
Does he have good values and will he fit in my world?

None of these are “bad” questions. But, if you add them all up, what you’re doing is tantamount to acting like a detective. You’re trying to figure out, in 90 minutes, whether this stranger is potentially husband-worthy.

That’s a lot of pressure to put on yourself (and him) on a first date. You’re picking up on every subtle clue and extrapolating it to a greater meaning.

So if he talks about his crazy ex, you may conclude that he’s hung up on her or is a misogynist with baggage.

Or if he talks about himself too much, you conclude he’s a narcissist who’s not interested in you.

Or if he seems interested in you physically, you conclude that he’s disrespectful and wants only one thing.

These are all possible conclusions you can draw, but they are, by no means, the only conclusions. In fact, they’re probably incorrect.

A man who talks about his crazy ex may be a great guy – with a really crazy ex and some good stories to tell. If he has bitter feelings, he may be entirely justified in having them. His only crime is in not knowing how he comes across on the date.

A man who goes on and on about himself may be extremely interested in you, and extremely nervous that he’s not going to impress you. So he tells you as many things as he can to “impress” you, so he’ll have a chance of getting a second date. You think he’s selfish. He may just be insecure.

Finally, a man who tries to kiss you at the end of the first date is also known as a “man”. That’s right. Men who are attracted to you want to kiss you. It’s not a crime, it’s not a flaw, and it’s not inherently inappropriate. Sure, a kiss after 3 minutes at Starbucks is pretty weird, but following dinner, drinks, and a car ride home, a good night kiss is standard behavior for a man who’s attracted to you.

I share this with you because you may feel that men are supposed to do things YOUR way.

He should just KNOW that he shouldn’t talk about his ex.
He should just KNOW that he should ask you questions.
He should just KNOW that you’re uncomfortable kissing on the first date.

As one of those clueless men who have done ALL of those things – I hate to remind you what you already know about men: we’re not mind readers. We’re not perfect. We do what comes naturally to us, not necessarily what comes naturally to YOU.

Theoretically, we can do everything perfectly right on a date – check off 20 for 20 on your scorecard – and then be dismissed for trying to kiss you. And if every little misguided action can set you off, it becomes really hard to make a good first impression.

Which is why I wanted to remind you of an insight I had about men’s and women’s first date agendas:

Women want the potential for love. Men want the potential for sex.

This is a fundamental difference between us and I think it’s important to know that I’m not blaming you for trying to figure out where things are going.

Since you want the potential for love, you give your first dates the tightest screening outside of airport security – and dissect everything he says to determine if he has long-term relationship potential.

Alas, while your heart is in the right place, your efforts are premature – and they usually backfire. Men don’t like to be dissected.

We know when you’re asking leading questions about our jobs, exes, financial stability, sexual past, and desire for family and kids. So, for your own sake, stop thinking of the future when you’re on a date. Try hard to have fun and stay in the present.

By enjoying the night, having light, breezy conversation, and flirting a little bit, you’ll ensure a great first date which will make him want to ask you out again.

That gives you the choice to go out with him or not and allow him to reveal himself over the course of the next few dates.

While you are entitled to want to figure out the entire puzzle at the very beginning, it’s generally a losing proposition. Not because you’re wrong for wanting to protect yourself from wasting time on a bad man – but because it doesn’t WORK.

Men run from women who interrogate them in the pursuit of love, the same way women run from men who push for sex too soon.

Can you see the parallels?

There’s nothing wrong with a guy wanting to have sex one day. The problem is when they push for it too fast. The harder they push before you’re ready, the more you pull away.

Smart male daters know that women want trust, comfort, and security. If they’re wise, they’ll take appropriate measures to show you this during your first date.

These subtle nuances of relationships are where most of the friction lies in dating.

Similarly, if you’re a smart woman dater, you’ll know that men value attraction and want to feel desired. So if you’re wise, you’ll take appropriate measures to show them this during your first date.

To be clear, this doesn’t mean sleeping with a man before there’s a commitment. It means putting yourself in his shoes.

He’s excited about you, he wants to impress you, he wants you to like him, and he wants to know you like him back.

All you have to do is let him know.

If you like him, a kiss is a great way to do this.

Once again, just because men want sex doesn’t mean they get sex on the first date.

Just because women want love doesn’t mean they get love on the first date.

But if you want to be the BEST first date, you’re probably smart to give a little hint of what’s to come in the future – just like the right man shows that he’s interested in a relationship, instead of just sex.

These subtle nuances are where most of the friction lies in dating. And whether you’re dating online, offline or are embarking on a new relationship, there are hundreds of ways in which your miscommunication can sabotage your connection.

It doesn’t always come naturally, but once you “get” it, you’ll be amazed at how easy it is to relate to men.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    nathan

    Hmm, I don’t know about other men on this one, but I have to say that “the potential for sex” isn’t the only thing on my mind when I’m out dating. Or even the first thing. I certainly want it to be part of the equation, but when I’m on a date, I’m looking for long term potential. Love and commitment potential.
     
    I totally agree with Evan, though, about the kiss after the date issue. I’ve been burned on both ends of that one. Not going in for the kiss has meant I “wasn’t interested.” And going in for the kiss has meant I was “too forward.” 
     
    Now, I can imagine there will be some comments about the guy who talks about his “crazy ex.” And to be honest, when I have had dates bring up crazy exs on a first date, a flag goes up. I pay closer attention to see how much negativity and emotional hang up seems to be attached to the story. I’d expect any woman I’m on a date with to do the same. To pay closer attention. Which is different from “He brought up the ex, I’m out of here.” 
     
    Overall, I think Evan is trying to point out that it’s really easy to find something to dismiss a date with. Because you don’t know each other, and are bound to do something or say something over the course of a first date that makes the other person confused, skeptical, or uneasy.
     
     
     
     

    1. 1.1
      maddie

      At the last sentence – but shouldn’t that mean you should give each other the benefit of the doubt? Trying hard to be perfect instead of being yourself is contradictory to everything you are told about how to go on dates. So you put on a facade and it ends up the person doesn’t really know you anyway….which kind of negates the point of the date, doesn’t it? **so confused**

  2. 2
    BC

    This was an interesting post, Evan, and I can see where you are coming from with all of the insights, but I also tend to think, like Nathan said, not ALL men are viewing the first few dates predominantly in terms of *the potential for sex* any more that I, as a woman, am looking for long tern relationship potential and seriousness!  

    Also, speaking entirely for myself here, and not putting my feelings onto anyone else merely as a gender thing…the first time a guy I’ve been dating for just a few weeks mentions kids, I’m outta there.  Seriously.  I once dated someone who I felt a real connection with, not just physically, but also, we just had a blast hanging out together.  However, I am not the typical woman wanting marriage and children, never have, never will…marriage, maybe, children, never.  So…it spooked me, and ended what was otherwise a very promising relationship.  You know, I still miss that guy in some ways, but that he desired children possibly 5 years or so down the line, and I didn’t, was definitely something better to know sooner rather than later.  Sure, we are all sizing up certain character, personality and physical attributes on the first date, but I don’t think the agendas are as clear cut as we assume them to be for either involved.

  3. 3
    Ruby

    If a man brings up his ex on a first date in a casual way, it’s not an issue for me. But I’m sorry, EMK, if you say your ex was crazy on the first date, it’s going to raise a red flag. If you’re a sane, emotionally healthy person, why would you choose someone crazy as a long-term or life partner? Even if your ex did turn out to be crazy, why divulge that on a first date? I don’t have a checklist when I go out with someone, but yes, things like politeness towards the waiter are things I am looking at on a first date. I might not disqualify a guy immediately, but I will be looking at the way he treats others and the way he treats me.

    A kiss at the end of a first date? No worries if I’m into the guy, But recently, I had a first date with someone who, as we were saying goodnight, grabbed me and pulled off a busy street so he could French-kiss and push his hard-on up against me. Too much information!

    I’ve gone out with too many men who didn’t seem to think about their behavior on the date very much, but still expected me to like them in the end. I have dated enough guys (albeit they are in the minority) who did think about their behavior, and about how to be considerate, to know that they do exist.

  4. 4
    Angie

    I once read a dating blog for men, once, and it brought up the issue of kissing on a first date with this rule of thumb:
     
    If the female (hey, ME) is interested in a kiss, she will have touched the guy during the date, be it tapping him on the shoulder, leaning against him, etc.  It’s conveying the message, I am physically interested in you, and a little good night kiss is ok.  I found this to be… fairly accurate, watching myself on dates.  Not that I am looking for a kiss, but all the guys I wouldn’t mind kissing I am not pulling back from.
     
    Regarding the crazy ex scenario… first date?  I agree that while maybe at some point in the history of forever, we have all gone out with a crazy person (whether it was for 2 months or 2 years…), but I agree Nathan #1: If you are still hung up on an ex (be it that you are still in love with them OR still hate them), you are probably not be relationship ready.
     
    I went out with two guys recently who had exes come up in conversation on the first date, but naturally.  One said he knew my college (despite the fact we are in a city 2000 miles away).  How?  His ex went there.  Another said he decided to move when he and his ex (who he had been w/ what I can figure about 6 years – he was only 24 at the time of breakup) were ending and that being single let him try moving to a new city he was always interested in, and then he said “…and let’s not go there tonight”.  That was all they said, and all I got from these ex mentions were Guy #1 dates smart girls (kidding :-)) and Guy #2 is capable of long-term commitment.
     
    I actually don’t mind if a guy lets his guard down a little.  It makes me feel someone is being honest, and I can choose whether or not we click or whether or not this guy is all an act.  I recently went out with a guy a few times who was “doing everything right”, but I felt like he was doing it to impress me.  I still don’t know why, but he was a little too perfect and too put-on that it made me uncomfortable.

  5. 5
    Sandy

    re: The Difference – Men vs.Women
    Hey! Women want the potential for sex, too. 
    Most of us, at a certain age, realize that sex is inclusive in a loving relationship, and that the potential for a relationship’s ability to survive cannot be assessed at the end of any first date.(Unless it’s obvious that the two of us will never get along. In which case, hopefully we’ve also learned by a certain age will rarely happen – a we’ve also developed a reasonable way to screen the absolutely impossible guys?)

    But, I think that the difference is that women ask if we are attracted to him, specifically, and we take longer to process.  Whereas men may not be so ready to discount the immediate possibility , as they are more apt to react to the possibility of having sex (fun) with any attractive female who happens to be on the date. “If you can’t be witht he one you love.. love the one you’re with.” 

    So, given that men are wired like microwaves and women are wired like slow bake ovens ….  we will continue to experience either meetings of the moment (sexual flings) or several to many meetings (a relationship) to experience meetings of the minds, hearts and souls, (or whatever else) binds us.   

      

  6. 6
    Honey

    When I was primarily using Match to find dates, I found that they were almost all way more interested in mining me for LTR relationship potential, whereas I either slept with them on the first or second date, or not at all, and rarely went on more than 3 dates with one person.  

    I did also sleep with my husband Jake on our first date as well, but I knew about halfway through our date that he was, if not the one, then different than anyone else.  Perhaps because he didn’t seem to be mining me for long-term potential?  I was his first date after getting out of a four-year relationship and supposed to be the rebound :-)  

  7. 7
    Ruby

    You can screen before a date, but there is no way to really know certain things until you’ve physically been with someone on an actual date. I am finding that even some men I encounter on-line want to meet right away without even having a phone conversation. I met the fast-mover guy in person, and there wasn’t much opportunity to screen him before he asked me out.

    A man will sleep with a woman even if he’s not all that attracted to her or doesn’t see her as relationship material. Also, women are the ones who are more likely to take their time assessing chemistry, whereas if a man is interested in an LTR and isn’t very attracted to a woman right away, he’s not likely to stick around.

  8. 8
    Michael17

    I agree with the basic premise that a lot of women have all these crazy hoops and rules that they want men to jump through. I would also add that women are in general the ones who make dating hard. They tend to go into a first date with their guard up much higher than men do, and THEN they expect the guy to wow them and have them feel “chemistry” even with her guard up so high. Men’s expectations aren’t nearly as high as women’s. As long as you’re cute and seem into us and don’t grill us, there’s a good chance we’d be up to seeing you again. I also feel the need to comment on some things, as I am sure there are guys reading your blog hoping to glean some pointers.
     
    I found that it is actually a *good* thing to bring up an ex, but do it carefully. When I talk about where I lived, I bring up that I lived in New Jersey, where “at the time I was with the girl I thought that I would marry, but that didn’t work out. We didn’t of course and while it was tough getting over her, you know, life goes on and now I wish her well and I can see why we didn’t work”. Something like that but I say it differently each time, because I don’t want it to sound rehearsed or anything. Now you come across as a real person.
    I’m NOT advocating that a guy complain about his exes, or his life in general. This isn’t a therapy session. In general though, a guy has to disclose some things about himself beyond (instead of?) facts about what he does for his career, his “exciting” hobbies, the “really cool” places he’s been to. (He ALSO has to do more than that and ask her those questions about herself.) He has to flesh himself as a real person with imperfections. OR the woman will walk away at the end of the night thinking it was impressive and the guy was “nice” but there is no second date.

  9. 9
    Sherell

    I don’t ask questions but rather judge the person.  who knows if the answers you get are true anyway!

  10. 10
    nathan

    “Also, women are the ones who are more likely to take their time assessing chemistry, whereas if a man is interested in an LTR and isn’t very attracted to a woman right away, he’s not likely to stick around.” Ruby, I have had numerous women disappear after a single date. Some with zero response to follow up calls or e-mails. I have heard the “there’s not enough chemistry line” more times than I can count after a single date. And I say this as a man who has a decent amount of dating success, including three relationships that lasted (1-3 yrs+) I think in today’s dating scene, both men and women are screening fast and furious, and probably missing out as a result.
     
    Oh, and honestly, after however many dates I have been on through online dating over the years (it’s well over 100 now), I don’t know if it matters all that much if you talk on the phone first, or send several e-mails back and forth. Some people come off well in writing, but are totally different in person. Some people are lousy phone conversationalists (I’d place myself in that category with strangers), while others are smooth as butter over the phone. And the longer I’ve waited to meet someone, and the more information I’ve gathered about them, the harder it has been to let go of the stories I have built up about who this person is before even having met them. I guess my experience has been that some screening is totally helpful, but beyond that, the returns seem to diminish greatly.

  11. 11
    Nicole

    @Nathan,
    I agree with you about prolonging the conversation and the diminishing returns of long term screening.  I say screen enough to feel comfortable, but yeah, it can totally build up a fake picture of a person, more importantly, it creates a false sense of a connection being there.  Maybe it’s a bit sexist, but I really don’t understand when men do it, since I assume they feel less concern for personal safety.  But you can learn a lot about someone and have great conversations, but if that person isn’t interested after the first meeting, it feels a bit abrupt when they never contact you again.

    I liken it to almost a fake friendship that feels real and then you get dumped without warning.   If it makes any sense, I’d rather not hear about someone for hours only to have him disappear.  It’s just  a waste of time and energy.

    I think that when dealing with extroverts and charismatic people, they can frequently come across as being very sincere even when they don’t mean any of it.   

  12. 12
    pd

    This is quite interesting in that I have found that the guys are tending to screen women more on a first date than we do to them. I am speaking for myself when I say I have been asked some very pointed questions about future plans, ie; do I want to get married/be in a long term relationship when this is on my online dating profile that I am looking for the real deal if it works out that way. I get a bit confused with this sort of question as I think I am going out with a guy who says he wants the same thing only to find out that he doesn’t and that he’s put that on his profile as a way to get women interested.
    It seems to me that a lot of men have an online dating profile just to see if they can get sex and I have been told my some men that they have met women who do the same.
    I wish I knew what the answer is!

  13. 13
    Nicole

    @pd.  I just had someone whose FIRST question to me online was why I was on the site and also when my last relationship was.  I guess he didn’t like my answer b/c while he sent me several messages in one day, after i answered his question he didn’t contact me again.  Weird.

  14. 14
    helene

    I know its not Evan’s recommended way, but I have to say I agree with those who find pre-date screening (either by phone or e-mail) to be a bit pointless and/or misleading, possibly creating a false picture and a false closeness with someone you’ve never met. If first dates are prone to the pitfall of “interrogating” your partner, pre-date phone conversations are even worse in this respect. Either the phonecall (which is, after all, with a complete stranger) is light but totally banal “what you doin’?” “watching TV… what about you?” “just clearing up after dinner…” or it turns into a grilling session where the man, for want of anything better to say to a complete stranger, starts asking you where you grew up, what job you do, how long you’ve been on match etc..etc…
    I think that a person’s profile – what they say, how they say it, and what their picture is like – provide as much useful screening as you can get without being with someone in person. At least when you agree to meet for a drink you can then behave the same way you would meeting ANY guy in a bar – chat, smile, flirt, have a drink…. all much more natural than a pre date “phone interview.” 
    As far as the kiss is concerned, as in any other “first kiss” situation, men with experience take their cue from the woman. If a woman wants to be kissed, its easy enough to tell, she’ll be standing close to you, kind of lingering, giving you a cute look, and will problably go silent or let conversation tail off to create a pause in which you can move closer and kiss her. If she’s flapping about,  keeping her distance, bustling around trying to hail a cab, chattering non stop…. she doesn’t want to be kissed. Bottom line, if a woman is standing near enough to you for you to be able to kiss her… then kiss her! If you don’t she’ll be mortified!

  15. 15
    sofka

    While I would agree that it’s mad to write someone off over whether or not he tries to kiss you at the end of the date, or whether or not he brings up an ex girlfriend, I’m still perplexed that some people seem to see the not asking anything/very much as being in the same category of trivialities, so I shall make the following point about people who just talk about themselves.  Evan writes:

    “we’re not mind readers. We’re not perfect. We do what comes naturally to us, not necessarily what comes naturally to YOU”

    I think this sentence misses one crucial point, this being that for the most part, these things do not come naturally to “us” (Evan means women but I think there are people of both genders in each category).  Instead, they are the result of years of hard work and effort, and often a steep learning curve that starts in adolescence.  If a man (or woman) hasn’t got the basics by the time he’s (she’s) in his mid to late 20s/30s/40s etc, how long are we going to have to wait before he or she is fully socially functional?  Many of us know how much of our own adolescence it took us to figure out how not to bore/annoy/upset the hell out of the different individuals and groups of people we spent time with, and we thus know we could be waiting years before the person in question is up to speed. 

    And I understand that someone might be nervous and insecure, but guess what – I’m nervous and insecure on many dates too but I still know that a conversation involves two people equally and if one person dominates, the other person will be left feeling like a passive audience of no real interest to the other.

    Evan also writes: “Theoretically, we can do everything perfectly right on a date – check off 20 for 20 on your scorecard – and then be dismissed for trying to kiss you”.  Again, when it comes to someone who just talks about him or herself, how can that not lose them the majority of “points”.  I’m sure Evan’s own advice in the past has been to throw out the checklists and just go and see if you click as people, but if one person never makes any real effort to engage the other, then how can the other get any sort of enjoyment from the date at all.  I personally don’t care if my date pays or offers to pay, whether the place he picks isn’t that great, whether or not he’s late, a little nervous, smaller than he says on his profile, etc. I have only one criteria on a date; Can this person engage me as I can engage them?

    And finally, if he (or she) hasn’t learned these things, maybe it’s not his fault, there could be 100 reasons. Will that make me any less miserable if I end up with him? No.
     

  16. 16
    Michael17

    I agree with nathan. I’ve heard the “not enough chemistry” line (whatever *that* means) a lot too. That is when the woman didn’t just outright disappear. And I have had relationships and sex in my day. I’d like to think I am pretty well socially adjusted.

    Dating just seems a lot harder now than 10 years ago. The screening just seems a lot faster now. Even “off-line”: the girl you met at Whole Foods probably has/has had a dating profile online, so that is how she dates now–writing people off too quickly.

    Texts and email aren’t good screeners. A woman can come across as very flirty and fun-loving in her electronic communication, but then come across as a lot more guarded when you are finally face-to-face. I’m not a fan of long phone calls because it’s much harder to talk when you aren’t face-to-face, and when you don’t have the advantage of body language and the ability to touch.

    To nicole and pd: I’m not a fan of asking pointed questions early on. If we get along well, we can talk about the stuff a little later. 

  17. 17
    Michael17

    You know, of all the things that I found challenging about dating, the first kiss just isn’t one of them. I’m not sure why that it’s that way for me but it just is. Maybe it’s because I make it a point to touch my dates a lot. Also, I end the date with a bug, and if she is still facing me as I lean in, our lips just seem to meet or either I get the cheek. Which is fine–I don’t think the girl ever disliked me for going for it.

  18. 18
    Brenda

    Until recently, I was a bit heavy-handed on the predate screening (because of having limited time due to my two teenaged sons and a horrific work schedule), and then found myself having hardly any dates :)  

    So I loosened up a bit, took some chances in terms of dating outside my “type”, and guess what? I met a great man, someone my age, who talked quite a bit (that’s putting it mildly) on the first date……..I chalked that up to his being nervous, listened to what he said and just focused on getting to know him and seeing his good traits.  He made me laugh, asked me about myself and just seemed so genuine.  I focused on being present and enjoying him as opposed to going off a checklist, which by now, had been whittled down to 5 items……….

    I ended up hugging him at the end of the first date because I was a little nervous about kissing him but boy, did we enjoy that second date kiss…………and quite frankly, if I had just confined myself to his match profile (and he had some photos posted that did not do him justice), and had not taken a chance and met him at a restaurant for our first date, I would have missed out on this really wonderful, loving man who was so so nervous and eager to please me.

    Our great relationship has continued and we both believe we have met “the one”………but it never would have happened if we would have not loosened the “criteria” a bit.

  19. 19
    Annie

    @1

    Here’s an answer to that dilema.

    Hold her check with one hand lean forward toward her other cheek and give her a firm but gentle kiss on that cheek. It can be slow, or fast and warm. It means you are affectionate, attracted to her, but not being forward.

    It’s really quite a nice thing to do. She’s not feeling doubtful that you dont’ like her, but she doesn’t feel pressure to respond when she may not be ready.

    If she leans into you when you kiss her cheek and smiles afterwards( and looks down a little)…you are in like flin :P

    Try it if you get the chance and let me know how you go :D 

  20. 20
    Anne

    I linked to Evan Marc Katz’s article from a fantastic web site called Baggage Reclaim.com.  It’s a good thing that I did, because I had not heard of Evan’s blog previously.

    Evan’s article was very helpful, as were the above postings from readers.  Combined, it helped me to learn more about men, as well as learning about other women.  I particularly liked Sherrell’s short-and-sweet note, which says it all:  when you ask the guy questions, you don’t know if you’re getting the truth, so why ask.  That’s pretty much how I feel, except that when you ask a question, you can observe HOW the guy answers it and his body language.  Sometimes you can tell whether he is likely to be lying, and if you think he is lying, then it’s a red flag that you should NOT proceed with that guy because he is not trustworthy.

    I have to say that in the 5 years that I have been dating after my marriage ended, my dating experiences have been awful and very painful.  I have only come across cheaters who pretended that they were being monogamous.  The longest amount of time that the “relationships” lasted was 5 months.  I put the word “relationship” in quotation marks because, in retrospect, what I thought was a relationship was not viewed in the same way by the guys.  To them, it was just “dating.”  Needless to say, as soon as I uncovered the cheating, I left.  I do have to say, however, that I suspect that some of these guys actually wanted me to find out so that I would be the one to initiate the break-up, thus relieving them of the responsibility of having to do it and looking like more of a bleephole than they already were.

    Some of these men were obviously very experienced at lying and at creating an illusion so that they could play their game and get what they wanted.  They went as far as making a dinner to introduce me to their mother after being together for 3 months, introducing me to their grown children, sending flowers to my work, going on and on about how special I was to them, planning very cool dates that they knew I would enjoy, talking about going on vacation the next year or the year after that (!), being very affectionate (yet respectful, which is a very confusing thing to a woman because we interpret respect as a sign of caring, so when the guy turns out to be a cheater and a creep, it completely blindsides us and leaves us in a state of shock).

    These experiences have been very devastating and have destroyed any possibility that I will ever be able to trust a man.  In fact, I don’t even call them “men” anymore, because to me the word “man” is very special - it means a male who has honor, dignity, exercises discipline and self-restraint and can actually love a woman.  So now, I just refer to males as “guys.”

    I have also experienced the ultimate rudeness of being treated like a whore by men who either outright say they just want to “have fun,” “hook up,” or never want to be married, or don’t want to date exclusively, and other words to that effect.  Needless to say, the conversation ends right there and I don’t proceed to a first date.  Or if they divulge that on a first date, I don’t proceed to a second date.  Most men, however, just lie, since they know that saying that type of thing is not going to get them far with the woman, so they just say what they think we want to hear.

    They are able to get away with it because most men are VERY good at “reading” a woman and what she wants, especially the salesmen (word to the wise:  do NOT date a salesman, especially the ones who travel for work).  So, once they “got your number,” they just tell you what they think you want to hear — and some of them will go as far as acting the way they think you want them to act, UNTIL they get what they were after:  sex.  The ones who don’t want to be thought of as the bleepholes that they are will stick around for several more weeks, all the while planning how to exit.  The ones who don’t care whether or not they look like a bleephole will break up with you within the same week that you had sex with them.

    I frankly don’t understand why I have kept running into these creeps.  I was very careful to look for signs of stability and being able to make a commitment in life and sticking with something:  guys who have had their cars for a while, no fancy cars (definitely not red convertibles), own their home (even if it’s just a small condo) and have lived in it at least several years, have been on the same job for many years and have a stable work history, have been married (at least 10 years).  I never care about how much money the guy makes or go out with someone for their money.  What I found out is that these signs of stability and commitment in those areas of life does NOT translate into stability and the desire to commit with ONE woman.  ALL of the guys I dated met the above factors and they were all cheaters who couldn’t stay with just one woman if their life depended on it.

    In analyzing what has led to this very injurious and unhealthy situation for women (we need affection, sex and love, but with someone who respects us!), it’s obvious that the Women’s Movement of the 1960s did nothing but have been treat us as even more of a sex object than prior to the movement.  The reason for that is obvious:  the movement flaunted women’s “sexual equality,” which meant that women became “sexually liberated” and started to engage more and more in casual sex.  Thus, they increased the inventory of available vaginas – with disastrous results to themselves and to the rest of us because men don’t want to be with just ONE of us when they can have as many as they want.  That’s the BOTTOM LINE!

    As a result of all of the above, I took myself out of the dating pool, with the consequence being extreme dissatisfaction with my life, feeling alone and lonely, and very angry at men for placing me in this situation.  Nonetheless, it’s the only thing I can think of doing to avoid experiencing more cheaters and greater emotional pain.  Ahh…if only I had the super powers of reading minds, hearts, and teleporting!  Alas, I do not.  So, I will stay out of the meat market and focus on other life areas.

  21. 21
    Liz

    Ack. Is anyone else bored of hearing Honey talk about herself and Jake? We get it, you slept with him on the first date and you got married. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good strategy for other women to follow. You are the exception.

  22. 22
    david

    This is a bit off Evan’s original posting, but was brought up in the comments — I’ve found talking to someone I met online is OMG, PARAMOUNT — even for just 15 – 20 mins — the times I haven’t, it’s really, really burned me — I would have caught how off our “rhythms” were or how socially awkward (or weird) they were…and the times I chalked it up to them being “bad on the phone” — ALWAYS, 100% of time, they were ‘bad’ in person / in ‘real life’…There are people I didn’t met up with after a short (or 20 – 30 min) phone conversation because it felt like being sucked into a black hole of weirdness or boring-ness — there way no way that was going to turn around in person….

  23. 23
    nathan

    “I think this sentence misses one crucial point, this being that for the most part, these things do not come naturally to “us” (Evan means women but I think there are people of both genders in each category).  Instead, they are the result of years of hard work and effort, and often a steep learning curve that starts in adolescence.  If a man (or woman) hasn’t got the basics by the time he’s (she’s) in his mid to late 20s/30s/40s etc, how long are we going to have to wait before he or she is fully socially functional?”
     
    There’s a lot of important things in this paragraph. It seems to me that if at some point, you don’t choose to deliberately pay attention and learn from your experiences, then things are probably just going to be more difficult for you. I would guess that some people will have more of that “natural” ability to read situations and cues than others, but even the best athletes, for example, have to do a lot of training and practice to maintain that.
     
    So, while it’s smart to give a date who is somewhat nervous and not entirely “with it,” it’s also fair to reject a person that seems completely clueless about social cues or interacting with others. The danger with being too lenient is getting into a situation where you hope to “fix” the other person – which is nearly always a disaster.

  24. 24
    Andrew

    Here’s a little trick I tell my female friends who are single:
    Look for reasons to accept a guy rather than for reasons to reject a guy.

  25. 25
    Panda

    To the men who had an awesome first date with me and then I just disappeared – the reasons: 1) I admit I wasn’t impressed with what you did for a living and felt like I made more money than you did – and that bothered me. Horrible but true so I bailed.  2) I found out the hours of your job are 2nd or 3rd shift or you traveled too often so I bailed.  I knew you wouldn’t have the time for me that I wanted and I didn’t feel that strong of a connection to let the hours not bother me. 3) I caught you yawning when we were in conversation and though I wouldn’t say you were bored, it was a signal to me that you had trouble paying attention.  And there were sometimes awkward moments of silence.  I figured you were trying really hard to communicate and it was difficult because you weren’t much of a “talker” naturally - and then I found out that you took some college courses but never graduated.  I felt our education background wasn’t all that equal and I’d knew I’d grow bored with you as time went on – so I bailed even though physically I was very attracted to you.  5) I was impressed with job, income, your hobbies, where you had traveled..you were intelligent and into me – the problem was I just couldn’t get “into” you physically chemistry wise and couldn’t see you fitting in with my circle of friends - so I bailed. 6) We had a fun time I liked your sense of humor – your hair style could use an update and I’m not into smokers but these are things that can be worked with because I can see the potential of you hanging out in my circle of buddies.  We got on great and we were attracted to eachother..the problem was you bought drinks all night and I got WAY too tipsy to the point that you were pawing all over me.  When I got my wits about me, I figured you’d think I was really easy or conversely, I also felt a little “Too taken advantage of too soon”….so I bailed.  Maybe none of these make sense to the man but at the time they made sense to myself and I just felt in my gut that it wasn’t “right” between us.  I could’ve been more mature and told you my reasons, but I’ve been bailed on by plenty a guy who had their own reason as to why they didn’t want to go on a second date with me… and they never bothered to tell me why either.

  26. 26
    Heather

    I have to disagree with the fellow above who said that we women “make it harder to date.”

    The reason we keep our guard up, is because we have run into men who have treated us less than respectfully, and we’d prefer not to have that happen again.

    I do ask some questions, but I don’t really ask much about intentions (marriage, LTR, etc.)  I have learned that alot of men will lie about that so they can get sex, and then move along.  What I do now, is I let the guy talk.  I listen to what he says, and watch his body language.  That tells me quite a bit.

    For example: I went on a date with a man I met online.  We were talking about how long we each respectively have been divorced.  He became pretty bitter about his ex wife, and told me almost exactly how much she spent in proceedings against him.  Red Flag Number One.  He then also went on a tangent about how monogamy was “a relatively recent concept” and how men are just not wired for such.  Alarm bells rang all over the place and after that date, I never saw him again.  I believe he could tell that I was not happy with what he had told me.  It frankly scared me and I started backing off.

    I’m not saying that it’s a good idea for us women to go into a date and act and sound so non-approachable that we come off as rude and cold.  However, there are reasons why we have our guard up.  If anything, it seems like you guys make it “harder to date” because of the lies, the games, etc.  I am much more cautious now about whom I go out with for that very reason. 

  27. 27
    nathan

    Heather, the lies and games are coming from all sides. I don’t think either men or women can claim some sort of superior status when it comes to that.

  28. 28
    SJZ

    Anne #20 I hear you! I feel the same way you do about online dating. I have done online dating for 4 years and realized I needed a break from all the rejection I was receiving.  I don’t know how many times I was told “You just don’t wow me.” That is ok if I don’t wow you but, do you really need to tell me that? I think the whole way around this is to fully read the profile and tell the other person what you liked about their profile. If someone contacts you then ask them what they liked about your profile. Unfortunately the picture seems to speak louder to people than the written profile. If I go online again I will take more time to really read the profiles and try to get to know the person a little better before I meet them. I have read that it is not what you have in common but how deeply you believe the same things that count. I will admit that I have a twisted, bitter picture of men after online dating but, I also know a lot of good young men like my sons and my nephews who do care and are trying to do the right thing. It gives me hope for the next generation of men.

  29. 29
    sharon

    @ Annie #19

    risky proposition. If a guy I had chemistry with put his hand on my face that could interesting. But if the guy I trying to see if I’m trying to develop chemistry with put his hand on my face I would feel very uncomfortable. I think peck on check is the safest lest off putting move unless you’re 100% sure the lady is into you. 

  30. 30
    Mami

    Both parties should try and have as few expectations as possible. It’s difficult, but with fewer expectations, there is less negativity and less disappointment. You can still have your standards or check-list or whatever you’d like to call it. On the other hand, I think especially during the “courting” period, a woman SHOULD focus on a guy’s negatives. We usually focus solely on all the “wonderful” things about him and get swept up in the chemical high of meeting someone new. Yeah. Enjoy that high, but that’s when the man is on his BEST behavior. Notice the little things he does that you don’t like. Chances are, it’ll get worse with time, not better. The beginning is a time of evaluation, but I do agree that you should be as easy-breezy as possible.

    I do think with age… and in the era of internet dating, people get extremely picky. To the point of where they won’t accept any faults or defects. There is an attitude that there is always something better out there. I think I saw this on an episode of “Say Yes to the Dress” (god, shoot me now). The fashion advisor Randy always says… yes, there MIGHT be another dress out there… but just like your fiance, you found a good one that makes you happy, so now it’s time to STOP SHOPPING. 

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