I Make $40K And My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For Anything

My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For AnythingHello Evan. I recently started dating a girl. I really enjoy her company and she enjoys mine. We get along fine, we’re really into each other and we share many commonalities. There’s only one issue – money! I have absolutely no problems taking her out on dates and footing the bill 100% but we’ve been on about 5 dates and we’ve hung out with mutual friends on numerous occasions, but she never even offers to pay – not even a disingenuous offer. I understand that if we are happy, then money is a small price to pay, but I barely finished college and only make $40,000 a year. I cannot afford to spend $200 every weekend. I mean, even when we’re not on dates, she expects me to pay. I don’t know how she got this old fashioned mindset, but it’s really starting to bug me. Personally, I work just as hard as she does for my money and I don’t find it fair but at the same time, I find it too early in the relationship to bring it up. I just don’t want her getting the idea that I’m ok with it or that she can take advantage.

 

I don’t even expect her to pay half. If we go out to dinner, I’ll pay for the date and the dinner, but the least she could do is pay for our ice cream or maybe buy me a single drink? I want to have that feeling, like if we’re at a bar and my girl comes up to me and asks me what I want. It’s like she has my back. It’s not about the cash- it’s more about being appreciated and not taken advantage of. I do not know how to approach the situation. I know she is going to explode if I bring it up, but how much of this should I take? I am not cheap, but at the same time, I am not made out of money. Does it make me a bad person to be thinking this way? I am somewhat of a liberal, progressive thinker, and her traditional mindset seems backwards to me. Advice? –David

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

Thank you, David, for writing a question that addresses the very hypocrisy of modern-day dating.

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

We’ve established that women are more highly educated and (often) make more money than their male counterparts.

We’ve established that the concept of men paying for dates came from a time when women didn’t work and therefore men HAD to pay.

Which leads this blog to receive comments that read like this:

“In our society, it has always been customary for a man to pay for a woman’s dinner. Men are wired to protect, and take care of a woman. If he doesn’t want to pay for dinner that is a glimpse into his character and/or how he was raised. Any self-respecting woman should steer clear of such a man. It doesn’t matter if she has decided not to see him again before she even picks up her fork. If he is a gentlemen, he will gladly pay and expect nothing in return.”

Anyone who feels that way should go back and read David’s letter.

Stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

This is a liberal, progressive thinker – a good man of modest means – who is trying to do the “right thing” and pick up the check as the anachronistic rules of chivalry still dictate.

He’s not railing against the concept of picking up the tab while he’s courting her – he’s just annoyed that he feels taken for granted. And when a woman never reaches for the check, offers to split, or insists on picking up the tip, the cab, or the coffee afterwards, it can really start to wear on a guy.

I am a man. You are a woman. You are not poor or helpless or dependent.

So stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

Stop acting like he should be thrilled to drain his account in hopes that he might procure a good night kiss.

Stop acting like you’re not really his equal when you want to be treated equally in every other respect.

As I said here, if we can agree it’s in good form for a man to pick up the check while courting you, we should also be able to agree that it’s in good form for a woman to offer to split the check and/or insist on picking up the check while he’s courting you.

If you think it’s rude when men don’t pay, we think it’s rude when you assume we will pay.

It’s basic golden-rule stuff, y’all.

I’m not expecting much dissent on this one, but if you’re brave enough to explain why the original poster David is wrong, cheap, or short-sighted, have at it.

Personally, I think he speaks for just about every man I’ve ever met who got sick of being an ATM.

Here was my breaking point – when some woman intimated that she was my “sugar mama” after I allowed her to split the check on our fourth date.

And you think that women are the only ones who get burned out on dating…

 

 

 

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Comments:

  1. 1
    myhonestanswer

    If you don’t agree on something as simple as who is paying, this early on in the relationship, you are onto a loser. Sorry, but if you were right for each other, this stuff wouldn’t even register with you. That’s just myhonestanswer.

    1. 1.1
      elle

      I kind of agree with honest… 
      Why are we wanting or trying to change
      people??? If you would like someone who
      wants to share cost with you… it is simple…
      Date that girl… The real question here is.. Why 
      do we make life so difficult when the truth is
      looking us straight in the eyes???

  2. 2
    Christina

    Yes. Maybe it’s because I came of age in the 80’s, when we girls really were all about being independent and pulling our weight, but I don’t understand the old-fashioned “he always pays” mindset at all. Part of a good dating relationship includes doing nice things for each other, and that means paying for dates, too.
    It bothers me quite a bit when women want to have it both ways- be treated as equals when it benefits them, but revert to old-school helplessness when it comes to paying.
     

    1. 2.1
      Tony

      Ladies, I think what he’s trying to say is he doesn’t mind paying for all her meals or expenses when going out every time. What a man want’s to see, is that a woman showing appreciation and the willingness to understand what a man is doing. A man has bills and expenses just like you women. He just want’s to know that she would give her last dollar to feed him, which will give him a warm and good feeling. Appreciating her wanting to pay, giving her the opportunity to court him. As well as understanding what this women is willing to do for him, meaning him going to the end of the earth to do anything for her. That’s my take on this subject and that’s how I feel & hope it changes the view for some women.

      1. 2.1.1
        jlove

        I wish I could find a man that I could appreciate.  Im currently seeing a guy who only takes anc could give a damn about my needs. Im learning slowly and moving forward I would never let a person take advantage me. In short she thinks hes being a classy person by default because she  sitting back letting you pay. In reality she looks like a peasant mooching pheasant…..leave her

  3. 3
    Fawn

    My boyfriend and I take turns paying for our dates.  It’s 50/50.  I make good money and can take care of myself.  Why should I expect him to pay all the time?  He takes such good care of me in other ways.

    1. 3.1
      Onel

      I agree. My bf & I take turns. We make the same amount of money & I don’t mind spending on him. If you care for someone, you don’t care about that. You care about how to make the other person feel appreciated & cared for. Besides, I like to show my guy my independence & that he found a winner & not a moocher. 

  4. 4
    SS

    I’ve always been one of the ones saying that I expect a man to pay for the first date, and really, the second too.
    After that, I have usually offered something. Maybe I buy the ice cream/dessert if he buys the dinner. Or I buy the popcorn if he buys the movie tickets. Or I suggest a restaurant for which I have a coupon/Groupon.
     
    When the two are exclusive, 50/50 or however else the couple wants to handle it is fine.
     
    David, what is this girl’s response to free or cheaper dates? $200 a weekend is a lot… I’ve never been in that kind of dating relationship, except the brief period with the one rich guy who could afford it, and even then, we still went to Outback sometimes!
    Also, have you all had a talk about this? If you mention that you only make $40,000 and that you’d still like to go out, but the budget is tight, what is her reaction?

    1. 4.1
      John doe

      She is a gold digger. He needs to kick her to the curb. From the 60s______to now we men do not owe women anything. I’m 42 I did not oppress women so in light of what a man should do is a joke. Like most women today it’s all about them and needs and wants. Open your own door. A man and woman today are the same. The law says paying for sex is a crime so why is it not a crime to use men to pay your way. The only woman I would  support is a virgin. And guess what woman today give it out like candy. But it’s no longer candy when she has more miles then a gray hound bus.  

  5. 5
    Honey

    When I was actively dating, I made $13k/year because I was in grad school and dated working professionals almost exclusively.  So of course I expected them to pay.  When I dated other grad students, I didn’t have that expectation.

    When I started dating Jake, he always paid because he was making $90K+ per year and I was making (at first) the aforementioned $13K and then (after I graduated), $40K.  If I had been expected to chip in then we wouldn’t have been able to go out.

    Now it will be interesting to see how things change.  We are officially engaged, but actually eloped a few weeks ago without telling anyone so that he could quit his job and start his own business but still have health insurance.  So for now we are going dutch when we go out (and cutting way, way back on going out) until we see what kind of money he makes.

    1. 5.1
      Keith

      Similar situation, girlfriend and myself.  My income is six figures.  And she went back to school so she’s a bit of a starving student these days.  I have no issues paying for her.  But she doesn’t insist that we go out that much.  Or she will concsiously pick cheaper activities.  Or she will quit often cook me dinner at home. 
       
      I appreciate that.  The girl i dated right before my gf was also a starving student and never reached for the cheque.  But worse, she wasn’t happy just going to regular places.  And though she was actually in to me and was a pheonomenal individual (very attractive, spoke 5 languages and two graduate degrees in engineering and french literature), it made me feel used and it made me feel that there is no way I could ever get into a sustainable relationship with such a woman. 
       
      Then I met my gf.  Cute.  And a Walmart shopper.  I know I will go far with a woman who watches the budget at home.  And whatever I’ve saved on all those dates she never wanted to go on, I’ll be spending on a really nice proposal and ring shortly.  Her modesty has certainly earned my generosity.

    2. 5.2
      DutchDater

      If you are married and make decent money and making your husband split the bill while he’s not working, that’s just being cheap and a double standard!

  6. 6
    Julie

    You failed to mention the girlfriends financial status? Can she afford to help pay for the dates? Does she suggest expensive restaurants all the time and you agree knowing your going to have to pay. The answer to this seems simple, just talk to her about her and explain your financial situation and you love spending time with her but can’t afford to do the same things your doing if she doesn’t help pay for the dates. If she blows up at you then she is not the women you would want to form a future with, right?  

  7. 7
    Honey

    I will also add that during the “he paid for all going out” period, I did all the housework, grocery shopping, and cooking.  Now that he is going to be working from home, he’s going to do half of that stuff.

  8. 8
    Ms Maz

    (Long time lurker, first time commenting!)

    I’m all with Fawn, #3!

    I’d never expect a guy to pay for me. In fact, it bothers me when he does. I’m the kind of gal who has pretty much been out on her own since the age of 17, working since 14. I always feel guilty when I am not contributing to some aspect of a date, therefore, I always do my best to make sure I contribute something, whether it’s the tip, the dessert, or my meal in general. I’ve never felt comfortable having someone pick up my tab for anything, but perhaps that’s just because I’m so used to doing everything for myself.

    I may only make maybe 28K, but I work two jobs, attend nursing school, own my home and a car. I STILL refuse to have a man pay for me. I just think it needs to be fair and well rounded on each side. My boyfriend is a touring musician, so he’s not exactly raking in the bucks, either, but I don’t care about that. We try to find ways to make dates fun and economically sound. I don’t mind picking up my part of the check or covering his drinks because I know he’ll do it for me when it’s his “turn.” Isn’t that what we should be striving for in a relationship? Equality, all the way around? It’s kind of selfish and unfair to have such archaic expectations of a guy.

    It’s unfortunate that something so fun and exciting often turns into a big fat hole in your pocket. This ancient standard needs to be done away with, pronto!

  9. 9
    MysteeBee

    I agree with SS on this: it’s nice for the guy to pay for the first and second date.  He can pick the venue, so he should select something he feels comfortable paying for.  This just establishes that’s he’s interested.  After that, there can be more sharing, and when there’s a bf/gf relationship, it can be more 50/50.
    David, you’ve clearly shown her you’re into her on this front, so I’d just suggest telling her honestly what’s bothering you and see how she reacts.
     
    Also, Honey’s comment about housekeeping, cooking etc brings up another interesting point, in that women who live with their partners often have this second, unpaid job that they’re expected to do…so things not being equal that way anyhow, it seems reasonable for the man to bring a bit more money into things, unless he’d like to do laundry and some cleaning and grocery shopping too.

    1. 9.1
      DutchDater

      Yes I agree it’s not always 50/50 so dates don’t always have to be.  If you do a lot of the extra work around the house then sure he may take you out more often.

      Now why should the guy have to pay for the first few dates?  What if you go out on a couple of dates where the guy pays and the girl then decides she doesn’t like him, now he’s out of pocket for nothing!

  10. 10
    Cecilia

    There are other ways a woman can make a man feel appreciated during dating besides offering to pay on dates – eg cooking at home, coming up with theatre, movie or concert tickets, preparing a surprise picnic etc etc etc

  11. 11
    Lovestuff

    People are just different.
    I have girlfriends who are exactly like David’s girl and they have never paid for anything; they don’t believe in it, nor were they raised that way. There are even men who feel like it’s never a woman’s job to pay for anything. But then there’s me…I’ve always paid half for everything in a relationship even when I was just seriously dating someone and not in a relationship. And sometimes, I feel like I’m cheapening myself.
    Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Can we really blame the men or the women?
    More often than not, women act or think this way because they have been taught to believe that men take care of women and one way men take care of women is through financial means. But sometimes, it’s enough to say to a woman…”I would love to buy you everything your heart’s desire, but right now I just can’t.”
    If this is such an issue…why not tell your significant other and if she/he doesn’t like it, then it’s something you have to decide if you can put up with it.

  12. 12
    garnet

    Okay Evan, I’ll rise to your challenge. Please hear the playful tone in my fingers as I type this.
    I do think the man-always-pays rule is silly.  I also think the men-date-younger, women-date-older rule is silly.  You have argued successfully that I should accept that latter rule.  You say that’s how it is, and I can’t expect to change it.  You say that I can play by the rules, or I can stay at home on Saturday night.  
    So… shouldn’t you be saying the same thing to this guy?  Are you here to advocate for change, or to figure out how to work optimally in the system we have?  Your response to this guy makes me think you might want to have it both ways….?….

  13. 13
    Bren

    I believe the issue here is that it needs to be discussed openly…
     
    I am now 57 and divorced…and living on very little money… with very little extra cash to spend… It was always my experience that when a man invites you to dinner or lunch or whatever.. he does plan to pay for it…and I have always shown my appreciation… by thanking him and then offering to do other things within my means…
     
    I was recently dating someone…  While discussing our lives and how we live.. I told him about my meager living up front…so he knew… I had no idea what his finances were like… He invited me out to a few meals… nothing fancy…we went camping and so on….. I purchased groceries on a couple of camping trips….brought snacks and beverages….picked up breakfast a couple of times… told him to toss his fruit in with my groceries… made him dinner… and contributed to a meal here and there….
     
    He invited me to an event he wanted me to attend with him.. so that he could introduce me to things he likes….. He was preregistered but…he had not done so for me… When we got there.. I was surprised to find them asking me for $45 cash or check I did not have… No cards taken so.. there I stood.. I turned to him…and then he said he had it…. and I was “his guest anyway”… So I got the feeling there was an issue… I’m not sure that all I did do was enough for him…. but he NEVER would discuss what he really needed from me… I wish he had been willing to….
     
    Yes…money can be an uncomfortable thing to discuss but it’s necessary… If you are dating and need the other person to contribute in some way.. it’s important to be able to express what you need… If you cannot do it now… how will you do it if the relationship goes further?
     
    Maybe you just don’t go out to dinner as much…and instead have fun cooking together at home…  Take her out when you can…and do things that are not costly otherwise… When I was dating my ex-husband we took turns…. one got the meat…the other picked up the wine…  I do believe a woman needs to show you she appreciates you by doing what she can to contribute…
     
    I’ve made picnic lunches and brought the food & wine to outdoor concerts…etc… There are ways within your means to show someone you want to do for them as well… and do it within your means….
     
    I’d appreciate feedback on this question?
     
    If a man does have much more money to spend than I… isn’t it okay for him to pick up these dates he is inviting me on…..and allow me to do all those things I do to show my appreciation… within my means?

  14. 14
    SS

    Lovestuff @11
    You are absolutely right. I have experienced all of this.
     
    All but one of the men I dated paid on the first two dates. I used to attempt to assist with something (part of the bill, the tip, dessert) on the first two dates, but because all of the men asked me out and all of them paid for everything without hesitation, that became my preferred option.
     
    There were two men who wouldn’t let me pay for anything, even after we’d been on the fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh date. I offered, but they shut me down each time. Both of these men were conservative Southerners. Me paying for anything was simply not an option. Now they did both make more than me, but still… we weren’t going to expensive restaurants. I could have picked up a joint tab of $16 at Cracker Barrel.  ;)
     
    I personally never wanted to have the attitude that I pay for nothing because I’m a woman, although those two Southern guys sure made it difficult to go back to a more egalitarian system, lol.  BUT, I never was going to get into the mold of always paying half of everything. I know I got into a big ole argument with folks on another post about this, but I don’t believe in 50/50 straight-down-the-middle behavior in a relationship. I do, however, think that men and women can contribute equitably to a relationship without them having to take on the same roles (for example: men paying for most of the dates, but women helping with tips or snacks, doing a nice home-cooked meal, planning a picnic lunch, etc.)
     
    But it’s up to each couple to figure that out and what works for them. I don’t have a problem if David’s date is one who expects men to pay for everything, although this type of woman might need to find a conservative Southerner if that’s what she expects!!!! That could be how she was raised and that could be what she’s experienced from past dates.
     
    BUT, if David wants to continue to be with her, he MUST have a discussion with her about his financial situation. They can either work out a good compromise (like cheaper or free dates), or he might have to find someone else.

    1. 14.1
      LAX

      Hey,

      I got ONE QUESTION for you:

      How can it be “equitable” (you want to tell us that each contributes equally don’t you?), if he has to pay way more then she does?

      greetings LAX
      ps: I am from good old Germany and I would never accept any woman who thinks I will – exclusively – pay her way (I might, stress: MIGHT (!), pay for the first date, but only if she at the very least offers to split the costs, if she does not, I will demand it…I am not a walking ATM…)

  15. 15
    A-L

    I’m going to admit what I’ve done, and what I think. 

    What I’ve done
    I’ve always offered to help pay for a date, unless the dating pattern with a particular male was so entrenched that I knew he would never accept that I help pay and that I was mortally wounding his sense of masculinity by even offering.  Living in the south, most of the men always refused my help.  There was only a small handful that let me pick up the cost of anything, and to be honest, maybe only about 30-40% of the time or so.   So they would usually pick up the majority of the cost.  (This does not count for coffee first dates as that was frequently dutch as whoever would get their first would get their own drink, then the person coming second would get their own.)

    What I think
    I’m with BeenThruTheWars with this one (or what I expect her to say).  It’s really nice when a man pays.  It doesn’t have to be expensive.  It can be McDonald’s, or going to free festivals/concerts, playing Wii, renting a movie from Blockbuster (or heck, for free from the library). 

    This is not to say that the woman shouldn’t contribute.  She can buy tickets to the theater or football game.  She can find coupons/gift certificates for favorite restaurants.  She can also cook.  I usually cooked at least one meal out of three that boyfriends and I had, and it was good food too. 

    Of the guys I dated who let me pay, each of them ended up being a real jerk in some important aspects.  In contrast, about 10-15% of the guys who paid ended up being real jerks.  Is it possible to date a great guy where the financial costs are split more evenly?  Absolutely.  At the same time though, I didn’t have that experience.

    The man I ended up marrying paid for most of our dates out (unless it was the opera or symphony in which case I definitely paid).  We’re both teachers so neither of us is wealthy, and we earn a comparable amount of money.  Now that we’re married we have a joint account so now there is no s/he paid, it’s we paid. 

  16. 16
    Katarina Phang

    First, why would the OP even consider spending $200 every week?  That’s plain idiocy, I’m sorry.  You still can have wonderful dates without paying a dime.  My date took me to the Farmer’s market, got some oysters ($10), then to “Psychiatry: The Industry of Death” museum in LA sponsored by the Church of Scientology and we had a blast.  It was free.

    Second, most women (at least myself) give in different ways.  I don’t wait till 5 dates to start giving him something.  i cooked or got him little gifts (one time I brought him his favorite fried chicken, got him milk when he was sick).  For example, after the museum we ended up shopping and he almost got a brain hemorrhage because he couldn’t find me since I got so hooked on the summer dress section.  I felt bad so I insisted on paying for his french press.

    Then he took me to lunch at a sports bar.  We split a sandwich.  We got a couple of beers and it only cost him round $20.  The we hung out at my place.

    It was the most wonderful date ever and we had a blast.

    A lot of times we just hung out at his place watching movies/shows or walking his dog/hiking, dog playdate, etc, and ate in.  There are so many ways to have a fabulous date, who says you need to pay $200/week?  Be creative.  It’s the company not how much you spend.

    1. 16.1
      SparklingEmerald

      One of the best first dates I ever went on, didn’t cost a dime.  We walked up & down Central Ave popping in and out of Art Galleries, one of the museums was no admission that night, then we went riding in glass elevators, to see the city lights at night. 
      In the early stages, I would rather have a guy spend his TIME, not his DIME.  There are so many free things to do around where I live, many of them mentioned in my online profile, that there is no excuse for a man to try and impress with with some high dollar expensive date, and then complain if I don’t split the check. 

  17. 17
    Sherel

    First few dates , guy ask, guy pays after that they can alternate or split depending on who does the asking.  I have some guys that never let me pay, but most are OK with splitting it or alternating. Some dates even before we go, it’s known who is paying.     I like nice places and things and have no problem paying.

  18. 18
    Angie

    David, I agree with you. She sounds like a high-maintenance taker.  Are you sure you want a relationship with her?

    I am a bit surprised you are having $200 dates anyways.  That’s a lot of dough.  Are you planning these outings, or is she?  If you are picking the restaurants, etc, then perhaps you should start going to cheaper places and see if she acts like she is too good for this kind of stuff.

    Either way YOU need to address it.  This girl obviously isn’t going to start making offers.  Speak up (in the politest way possible), or get out of this one and find a more generous girl.  Just do it now, before you are a few months in and you snap.

  19. 19
    Detha

    I think the posters girlfriend should at least OFFER to pay, some of the time. This way it gives him the choice to say no, he is fine with paying. I think he should get rid and move on.

  20. 20
    Vaness

    I have to agree with garnet,  and please dont take offense Evan.  But If I must look good, stay in the best possible shape , quoting your words accept things men do out of nature then David should date within his range.  Someone that is ok with 50.00 weekend dates.  Or date someone who enjoys  paying their share or that occasional dessert.    You say date the man that likes you.  David should date the girl that wants to pay half.   David is simply dating out of his league and it will surely end when she realizes he is not being true to himself.  Evan you should advice this man to be true to himself he is breaking your first rule. 

    1. 20.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I hear you, Vaness and Garnet. And, if you noticed, I said a man SHOULD pick up the check on the first few dates while courting because that’s what society expects and that’s what’s “effective”.

      However, I don’t think David is dating out of his league. I think he’s dating the wrong woman.

    2. 20.2
      Keith

      Ha ha ha!  Any guy who actually makes money will not put up with such behaviour for long.  Do you think guys are stupid and they don’t know when they are being used?  And that’s what you are doing when you insist that he pays for dinner because you carry the expense of being dolled up (as if guys don’t have to spend on their own clothes and grooming).
       
      It’s very rare that guys marry high maintenance.  But every guy has dated one or two such women.  And he’s learned his lesson and will go hunting for a woman that will protect his assets not marry him to use them up.

  21. 21
    Nia

    Hi Evan, I’m just curious – do you think men and women should split the bill no matter what? I know you’re blog is mostly directed to ‘strong, successful women’ – but what if you’re not either, and happy being that way? I earn about the US equivalent of $12k a year and mostly date men who earn the equivalent of $100k – I’m not an Alpha female, and happily let my man lead (as per one of your previous posts). I want to marry, and when I do, will delight in being a ‘housewife’ and raising our children – I get treated as if I just pooped on the floor by many wimen for saying that, but I feel it’s what would make me happy and I will not feel the need to work in order to be fulfilled. I believe I bring many other qualities to the relationship aside from money, and I would like a boyfriend – and eventually husband – to be able to support me so I can be all those other things – does that, in your opinion, make me child like in my behavior and generally wrong? Do you believe I should still be splitting bills even though my dates earn approx 8-10 times more than me? I appreciate that if we’re dealing with two ‘high fliers’ then the women wantung to be Alpha *and* still have everything bought for her may seem a little like she wants the best of both worlds but can’t we still enjoy the ‘traditional’ way of things, if that’s our choice? Interested in your thoughts…

    1. 21.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Nia – I’ve never said men and women should split the bill. I’ve said that entitlement is not an attractive quality, no matter how much the guy makes. So, as a woman, you should genuinely thank him every single time he reaches for the check, occasionally reach for it and insist on picking it up, and if that’s simply not possible, compensate by giving in whatever way you can. I never expected my wife to pick up a check because I made a lot more than she did, but she still offered from time to time at the beginning of our relationship. Her gesture was greatly appreciated, if not accepted.

  22. 22
    Donna

    When I was in my 20s and my boyfriend made at least double what I made, our agreement was that I’d pick up the tab for every 3rd time out, which was fair.  Now that I’m older and most anyone I date makes much more than I make, I still offer drinks or tip every few times.  Can’t say I’m not glad when they don’t accept, but it is good to offer so they don’t feel taken advantage of.  Or at least cook them a good meal every few times you go out!  Do something !

  23. 23
    Lisa M.

    This is one of the things that has made it so very easy for me not to commit and why I have decided to stay on the sidelines for so long.  I HATE DATING! The male and female dating and mating dynamic is so out of whack. It all just gives me a headache. If I offer to pay or split the check — there are some men who will think that I’m being too masculine and in some cases become offended and if I don’t pay then I’m using them as an ATM. 
     
    Where does all the madness end? 
     

  24. 24
    NN

    Why?
    I have grown in a family, where my mother had more money, and she made sure that both of her children were educated so that they never would be dependent of any man.
    I earn a bit more than an average man here, so I can pay a date, but if if a guy expects me to pay (during the first few dates) then he is history.

    I don’t need a cheap partner, and I can pay my single life in the future. 

    What I hear of Evan’s response, is what I would avoid.. I just don’t want to be “we” with a man like that. Companionship with a man like that would be a drag.
    Simply because if that little money what my dinner costs is important enough for a man to complain about, I am sure he would also complain about my spending of my own money, when he realises how I love to splurge my hard earned cash on shoes etc… and I don’t care to explain where my money goes, or how much I earn to any cheap man who thinks what I want it is unnecessary for me.

    Age old question, which once was applied to men.. why buy a cow when you can get milk for free? So being single is easiest, no need to explain to anyone and I always get milk when I want it. =).. and a good companion for me, is such with whom money is not important issue at all.

    1. 24.1
      LAX

      Says the girl who – as you say – out earns most of her male dates

      Sorry, but you seem quite selfish, why?

      1. You earn more then them but still expect them to pay for dates
      2. You don’t want to spend money on them and are offended if they tell you off for spending the money (they helped you accumulate by paying the bills!) on shoes and other unnecessary items without any accountability to them
      3. You see men as walking ATMs (they have to pay while you can dump money on what you wish) and in my book this is ABUSE (of the generosity of your partners)
      4. You only take the good things of being equal to men (mainly: being able to work, have your own stuff etc.) while not wanting any of the bad stuff (contributing your share for example!)

      And all this makes you an undatable woman (at least for me, I grew up being told to be responsible for your share, but never to be a pushover/doormat and that women have to do their share of work)

      greetings LAX

  25. 25
    Nia

    Hi Evan… Super appreciate you giving your thoughts… I never expect it, do offer to split sometimes, often pay for ‘smaller’ parts of the date ie he pays for dinner & I pay for drinks after – and I always shows lots of appreciation & thanks afterwards – even if we’ve been together a year or two… So I’m really pleased we still *appear* to be on the same page here as I REALLY like your blog! Yay! :)

  26. 26
    NN

    Applied to women.. *corrects*

    Anyway, if I insist to pay when I am on a first date with man, that is a way to say that “I don’t trust you enough, therefore I don’t want to be beholden to you in any way at all”.  That is the last date we are having.

    Men miss that signal totally =D..

  27. 27
    Victoria

    What stood out to me in this post was how unappreciated he felt & that he thought ‘she would explode’ if he brought up this subject…sounds like he knows he’s dating an emotionally unhealthy woman

  28. 28
    Bren

    If you say that you are “100% willing to pay” for the dates….then do so…. BUT keep it within your means…
     
    Even if you say you’re going to put chicken on the grill… and you already have a bottle of wine… ask if she could bring a salad…and maybe that great ice cream you had at her house…for desert…  Just ask….
     
    If she asks you about “going out” then let her know you’d love to… but you just need to curb your spending a bit…so you thought of some great things to do in between those dinners out…  She’s either going to understand and you’ll both do things you can afford… or she’ll show you who she really is….good or bad…
     

    1. 28.1
      Laura

      Couldn’t agree more with this. My thoughts exactly, Bren. Men need to understand that many women don’t respect a man who expect them to offer to foot the bill. We know you don’t like that, but, hey, we don’t like that you oogle Victoria’s Secret models…it’s life. Deal with it. Plan dates you can afford and can execute and stop expecting women to be men. What I mean by that is that men are supposed to court women, not the other way around. Most women will give in their own way, sometimes it’s financially, often times it’s not. If you like her, what she offers as tokens of her affection for you should be enough.

      1. 28.1.1
        AnotherOne

        In a way this is true, men need to court women but a good relation ship can be so much better if it is an open relationship and both parties get what they want/need/deserve.
        If we go on what a man “needs” to do, then a man needs to pay for everything? In this case he now did he’s part correct? So, now the woman needs to do her part…(sex?) – This is sarcastic, not my view!
        This is not normal people, no one has to do anything they do not want/need to, this includes men!
        If the bill is split or the one who pay’s is happy then it is OK. But men also want’s to feel respected and loved, men also want to feel special.
        A woman saying a man needs to pay needs to show that man the respect he deserves and he needs to be loved the way he needs it. If this does not happen then he is being used! (But also men, speak to your girlfriends about this, if they do not know, they can not do anything about it and will think you want to pay, even if you think she does it on purpose!)

  29. 29
    Jane

    @Bren:  It has been my experience that men do not equate the kinds of things you referred to as a contribution as something that equalizes anything.  It doesn’t seem to register with them that a meal cooked at home — especially if you try to make really interesting dinners– costs.  And can cost a lot.

    I recently dated a guy who would come over for dinner I prepared. He would bring a movie so— dinner and a movie at my house..  I didn’t really think about what these dinners along with wine and desert cost me until I noticed when we were out that he expected me to pay part or all of a lunch.  I started thinking about it and realized I was spending quite a bit on nice dinner ingredients and he was expecting me to ante up money for other meals.  He did not contribute to meals in any other way– dessert, wine, flowers!!  I’ve noticed this dinner-at-home oversight before.  Those dinners are not free!  Not to mention the menu planning and shopping in addition to the preparation
     
    Couples (everybody)  should do nice things for each other.  The best relations I’ve seen involve reciprocity.  Some people are really happy to do things (and pay) for their dates at least some of the time.  I like the equitability method rather than the 50/50 and I will still offer pay for something outside the split agreement.  Btw, I no longer date that guy.  I realized he is too selfish in many , too many ways.

    As to our poster:  communicate but do so in a tone that will build empathy– like @Lovestuff suggested.  I think the poster sounds like a good guy and if this woman doesn’t think he is a keeper someone else will.

  30. 30
    Martha

    INteresting. I just tuned into this blog because I wanted to write Evan with a variation of the same question.  What ever happened to, “I’ll pick up the check this time, you get it next time”?  To me that is a signal that we want to continue to see each other. It’s flattering and fun to always be either treating someone or being treated. 

    I’m a 40 something feminist female, recently out of a 2 year relationship with a man who always split things 50/50 IF I didn’t pick up 100% of the check, which I often did because I made not a huge salary, but twice what he did as a freelance writer. I have a lot of men friends and always splitting the check 50/50 is my signal to them that we are Just Friends. I hated the 50/50 split at every meal and event with this man that I was in a serious relationship with.  And yes, I talked with him about trading back and forth, but that went nowhere.
    Now I’m doing on-line dating.  I lost my job so money is tight right now.   I feel fine about paying separately at a first meeting because it is more of a meeting than a date. I suggest inexpensive activities such as meeting for coffee or a walk. 

    I am very far from a gold digger, but I’m surprised that men do not offer to pay for my $10 movie ticket when they ask me out for a subsequent date or they suggest more expensive restaurants and then expect me to pick up half the tab. I’m talking businessmen and doctors! They know my financial situation.  I would like to pay for some things, but if there is a big difference in salary, I think the person who has more $$ picks up the tab for more expensive dates; the one with less money picks up the tab for ice cream or drinks or meals at the local diner. 

    How do I tell men that I no longer want to date them because I’m looking for a man who is considerate of my situation and that I want to be courted/flattered/wooed, which, when I look at the animal kingdom, I think is basic biology?  If a man wants me to pay separately for all my expenses, then he’s looking for a buddy to hang with, not a potential partner.

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