I Make $40K And My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For Anything

My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For AnythingHello Evan. I recently started dating a girl. I really enjoy her company and she enjoys mine. We get along fine, we’re really into each other and we share many commonalities. There’s only one issue – money! I have absolutely no problems taking her out on dates and footing the bill 100% but we’ve been on about 5 dates and we’ve hung out with mutual friends on numerous occasions, but she never even offers to pay – not even a disingenuous offer. I understand that if we are happy, then money is a small price to pay, but I barely finished college and only make $40,000 a year. I cannot afford to spend $200 every weekend. I mean, even when we’re not on dates, she expects me to pay. I don’t know how she got this old fashioned mindset, but it’s really starting to bug me. Personally, I work just as hard as she does for my money and I don’t find it fair but at the same time, I find it too early in the relationship to bring it up. I just don’t want her getting the idea that I’m ok with it or that she can take advantage.

 

I don’t even expect her to pay half. If we go out to dinner, I’ll pay for the date and the dinner, but the least she could do is pay for our ice cream or maybe buy me a single drink? I want to have that feeling, like if we’re at a bar and my girl comes up to me and asks me what I want. It’s like she has my back. It’s not about the cash- it’s more about being appreciated and not taken advantage of. I do not know how to approach the situation. I know she is going to explode if I bring it up, but how much of this should I take? I am not cheap, but at the same time, I am not made out of money. Does it make me a bad person to be thinking this way? I am somewhat of a liberal, progressive thinker, and her traditional mindset seems backwards to me. Advice? –David

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

Thank you, David, for writing a question that addresses the very hypocrisy of modern-day dating.

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

We’ve established that women are more highly educated and (often) make more money than their male counterparts.

We’ve established that the concept of men paying for dates came from a time when women didn’t work and therefore men HAD to pay.

Which leads this blog to receive comments that read like this:

“In our society, it has always been customary for a man to pay for a woman’s dinner. Men are wired to protect, and take care of a woman. If he doesn’t want to pay for dinner that is a glimpse into his character and/or how he was raised. Any self-respecting woman should steer clear of such a man. It doesn’t matter if she has decided not to see him again before she even picks up her fork. If he is a gentlemen, he will gladly pay and expect nothing in return.”

Anyone who feels that way should go back and read David’s letter.

Stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

This is a liberal, progressive thinker – a good man of modest means – who is trying to do the “right thing” and pick up the check as the anachronistic rules of chivalry still dictate.

He’s not railing against the concept of picking up the tab while he’s courting her – he’s just annoyed that he feels taken for granted. And when a woman never reaches for the check, offers to split, or insists on picking up the tip, the cab, or the coffee afterwards, it can really start to wear on a guy.

I am a man. You are a woman. You are not poor or helpless or dependent.

So stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

Stop acting like he should be thrilled to drain his account in hopes that he might procure a good night kiss.

Stop acting like you’re not really his equal when you want to be treated equally in every other respect.

As I said here, if we can agree it’s in good form for a man to pick up the check while courting you, we should also be able to agree that it’s in good form for a woman to offer to split the check and/or insist on picking up the check while he’s courting you.

If you think it’s rude when men don’t pay, we think it’s rude when you assume we will pay.

It’s basic golden-rule stuff, y’all.

I’m not expecting much dissent on this one, but if you’re brave enough to explain why the original poster David is wrong, cheap, or short-sighted, have at it.

Personally, I think he speaks for just about every man I’ve ever met who got sick of being an ATM.

Here was my breaking point – when some woman intimated that she was my “sugar mama” after I allowed her to split the check on our fourth date.

And you think that women are the only ones who get burned out on dating…

 

 

 

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Comments:

  1. 211
    southrnphoenix

    Evan, of course it’s not fair. I do expect a man to pay on the first date, yes, but I always make some effort to help out, whether with the tip or drinks and I’m sincere about it.  I’ve had men accept my offer to get the tip on the first date and continued daing him.  However, I have also had multiple men, especially my father and brothers but also men I’ve dated, tell me that the man should always pay on the first date and if he doesn’t, I should never see that man again.  Maybe it’s because I’m from the South as some commenters have stated above, but a man that doesn’t pay for the first date is not seen as a gentleman. I’ve even faced a man that was offended that I offered.  I’m also not your normal wealthy client.  I’m a single mom that makes a good salary but doesn’t receive child support, so my disposable income is limited.  The man I’m seeing right now makes 30% more than I do.  I still try to help defray the costs  – I drive to his home at least every other time, eating the cost of the 80 mile round trip in addition to buying a couple of rounds of drinks or paying for the tip.  That’s what I was talking about above.  Above all, there has to be equity in the relationship.  I will also admit that on the two occassions that a man made it plain he expected me to pay half on the first date, I paid it and never looked back at him again.

  2. 212
    Shelagh

    Women should pay or offer to pay. Not all women are like this. FYI. Just as she relies on you to make her happy, she should be doing the same thing for you. She’s not even making the attempt. You could try to approach the subject with “I don’t think it was your intent to make me feel this way…” and go from there. You should say something. If it upsets you and she blows up on you or treats it like it’s nothing then you’re not spending time with someone that appreciates how generous you are being. She should not get upset. You should be able to communicate that to her some way. The first “talk” about anything is always hard, but it could give you some insight to how she handles problems in relationships. it’s unfortunate that it has to be about money, but she should have seen this coming. Good luck!

  3. 213
    David

    Wow talk about a huge response. Thank you everyone for posting your point of view and especially Evan for posting my concern and commenting on it. Unfortunately, I was not able to read every comment but I did take a good amount of time brisking through.
    Let me just add that my girlfriend and I have been dating for a little over a month now. I am 25 and she is 24. I must add that I live at home, and plan on moving out, and she lives on her own and is not that well off, financially. At the same time, she is in France as we speak right now enjoying herself so we can’t say she’s poor. She had bought the ticket a long time ago and didn’t want it going to waste, just fyi.
    Quick clarification, I dont spend $200 every weekend, but there have been a few dates that have broken the bank a little. For example, I will think creatively and take her to the beach / museums / outdoor dates, but they always turn into a nice dinner after, followed by a few drinks. I agree with all of you when you say “live within your means” and I will raise the issue next time were on the subject.
    I also talked to her about my situation. I told her, very respectfully, that I was aspiring to move out soon and I wanted to save my money and invest in order to purchase a condo or simply start renting. She really doesn’t like talking about finances. Whenever we bring it up she says “we’re not married, so why do we talk about this like we are” and I told her im not a bank and cannot afford as much as she might expect. She then goes on to tell me “youre not like any guy ive dated before. Ive never had this convo” which leads me to believe all the guys she dated before were either rich or chumps.
    I think there will be a turning point when she gets back. I will stick to my guns and if she decides she never wants to pay, then ill “live within my means” and do stuff I can afford or simply move on from her. I mean, I satisfy her in every way imaginable, especially physically, so I am not sure why money is “required” to satisfy her, as some have insinuated. While I do love to satisfy her, I also keep my independence. We only see eachother during weekends, which is my idea. She wants to see me more often, but I am too tired after work and she never wants to drive, just wants me to drive. I cannot do that, I have a life. I need to hit the gym and be with my friends too. Not sure if that’s an issue?
    And to answer some others, she does try to influence the locations / restaurants we go to for dates and she will indeed pick expensive places. I have to just put my foot down and she will have to understand. Otherwise, this whole thing might not work out. Like I’ve said before, I am not a cheap guy I just don’t understand this backwards way of thinking. I mean, it just seems appalling to me how someone could have that type of mindset…. or think that it’s ok.

  4. 214
    Node³

    @JerseyGirl #210
     
    Yes, there are some “rules” that men impose on women, but I argue that there’s one key difference between those rules and the rules women impose about paying: social approval.
     
    If a man complains that a woman wouldn’t have sex with him soon enough, or that she didn’t have a supermodel body, he’ll be roundly criticized, as he should be.  By contrast, a woman who complains about being unable to leech resources from a man will generally receive sympathy and approval from some men and most women.  This makes it easy to spread false memes like “men who want to split only want sex.”
     
    This social approval goes further than that, though.  A rather large portion of the dating literature I’ve seen endorses the “leeching woman” concept.  Even Evan partially endorses it.  While he doesn’t appear to endorse financial leeching, the marketing page for “Why He Disappeared” suggests he does endorse effort leeching* and social leeching**.  People should be calling out those who endorse leeching just as they call out men who demand sex.  If that happened, dating advice would change, and it would transform dating from a pursuit model (he gives, she leeches) to a meeting of the minds model (both participate equally in all aspects, not just financial).
     
    * Effort leeching: Refusal to participate in the planning or execution of dates, refusal to act independently to further the relationship.
    ** Social leeching: Refusal to initiate communication, refusal to ask for what she wants (sex, commitment), not talking much or self-censoring to avoid appearing “competitive.”

    1. 214.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Hey, Node: I disagree with you, buddy. In principle, I get where you’re coming from. In practice, it’s not my job to change the desires of billions of women or all of recorded history.

      The EASIEST and MOST EFFECTIVE way to tell if a man is interested in a woman is for her to do nothing: A man who is interested in a woman will ask her out, plan the date, pick up the check and follow up to see her again. If he doesn’t do that, he risks not getting a second date. It seems much easier for a guy to play by those rules than to try to change them, no?

  5. 215
    Evan Marc Katz

    Oh, and thanks to David, the Original Poster, for coming back to give us an update. Your question was great conversational fodder, to say the least!

  6. 216
    Selena

    @ David #224

    I’m surprised that any 24 yr. old woman living on her own would not understand a 25 yr. old man wanting to get his own place instead of living with his parents. From your second post it doesn’t sound like you are the best match, for that and a few other reasons.

    Thanks for commenting and dealing with our speculation – brave of you. :)

  7. 217
    SS

    Agree with Selena again.
     
    David, it doesn’t sound like this woman is very considerate or sensitive to your situation at all, especially considering that she dismisses your attempts to talk about finances.
     
    I don’t see a happy future with this girl, unfortunately. Or fortunately. It’s probably time to cut the cord.

  8. 218
    David

    Yeah I have gone back and forth about ending my relationship with her. The problem is that she has been part of my social circle for some time now. As in, she was a friend that hangs out with all of my other friends before we started dating.
    The ok thing is that I dont think I would have bad blood with her and I dont think she would be the type of have hard feelings either. We both cherish our friendship with eachother, it was just nice to be intimate as well. I will go ahead and balance on the fence of a little while longer – at least to get a better understanding on whether or not she’s willing to compromise.
    We shall see…

  9. 219
    nathan

    David, now that we have some more information, I agree with SS and Selena that she might not be the best match. But I also think it’s worth giving her a chance to step up and respond to your needs. Maybe in a few weeks or a month, she’ll have taken in your views and realize the relationship is more important than having fancy dinners and whatnot. Or maybe not. Best of luck to you.

  10. 220
    JerseyGirl

    Looks like I confused Node with David who originally asked the question. Which makes more sense now. David, it’s not really a good sign that she was even unwilling to talk about finances. It’s either a sign of immaturity or insensitivity. That’s all I am going to say.

    Node, as for you, if a man complained that a woman didn’t have a supermodel body, he would be roundly criticized by other women. But he wouldn’t neccesarily be criticized by other men. Other men might say “well that might be unrealistic but what guy doesn’t want that right.” I’ve heard more men congratulate each other on the younger age of their partner then I heard men champion a woman’s kind heart. And if you will notice, there were a number of women on this thread that see no issue on paying and splitting things.

  11. 221
    Katarina Phang

    David, she’s a spoiled, entitled diva.  Not girlfriend material.  Nuff said.

  12. 222
    Jlina

    Node – Just saying, you’re smart, you’re logical…and I bet you’re getting in your own way with a lot of social mores and scorekeeping that’ll keep you out of the “game,” however you want to play it.

    David – this chick wants more than you have to offer – girls that go to France have dreams….of men who can fly them to France for spontaneous dinners.  Some of Evan’s it’s the way it is, man….

    And about the subject!  I am SO glad I learned to love oatmeal and McDonald’s lowfat ice cream.  I could take or leave a $200 dinner in an instant – actually, I could leave it.  I dated Mr. Charisma who once mentioned that “our” dining bill had been $3,000 that month.  Ummm….I hate eating out -esp. at “fancy” restaurants that inevitably tailor their service and hop to it…then leave you to sit at least 30 minutes to wait leisurely on the bill.  I didn’t enjoy being arm candy, nor the vicarious thrill he got as men’s heads turned when I went to the restaurant.  And voila!  I emailed my BFF just this last weekend I’d rather sit home with current boyfriend than go out to dinner with last!  

    So, first dates at lunch special prices or cup of coffee prices shouldn’t break anyone, nor be a subject of such controversy!  And at most, I’ll say shall I get the tip – esp. if he’s going to be a 10%er!!….But say they were all at Chili’s avg. of $50 each – a man would meet 4 new women for his $200 investment.

    And here’s the math NO ONE’s talking about.  

    Pedicure – you can get by possibly with 3 weeks but in summer say every two weeks @ $20.00 to wear strappy sandals that even @ Payless prices are about $35.00 plus the cute summer sundress that at a minimum was $85.00 at Burke’s outlet. 

    Then – the manicure, or the hour to do short well manicured buffed and shiny nails yourself, the teeth whitening, the hair cut and color – I do my own to afford my fab. blondeness – and a full on color takes 3 bottles at pro discount prices from the beauty supply – so a total at home of $15.00 and an hour and a half. 

    For a date, the hair wash, the leg shave, the perfume (cheapest around is still $80 a bottle unless you’re a teenager), the makeup – even at wet and wild prices it’s gotta somewhat match your cute sundress so say a new eyeshadow and mascara and a mineral foundation – oh, $30 or so…

    and the face wash and the Clarisonic or Olay face brush so you won’t need foundation – anywhere from $200 to drugstore $35.00 a month.  And the shimmer lotion, or the self tan….and if you’re really feeling it the bra and panties from Victorias @ about $100 minimum….

    And the get ready time?  An hour and a half.

    I’m sure the drive and gas time equate, though. 

    So – I do all this which is easily and highly probable to cost MORE than $200 a month, and some “average” man who contacted me and invited me out to dinner is going to complain about paying the tab? 

    Yep, I’d rather eat oatmeal and cottage cheese with canned peaches – total of maybe $1.50! 

    And for the question of do men pay after a dozen dates…well by then you might think you’d be discussing long term merging of finances….

    and the question of does a $200 dinner get you sex?  is just EWWWW…..but yep, still alive and in full blown operating out there in the internet dating world.

    I found my guy after about 2 years and maybe 100 different internet meet and greets with about 10 actual turned into a few dates.  And I am one picky woman.  And he got me for a grand total of say $20 for lunch at IHOP when I wasn’t hugry and ordered an egg and a toast….it was far more when he went to Home Depot with me and helped me get a bunch of stuff to take back to my job that he followed me to and unloaded for me…Yeah, that was what I was looking for in a man!

    And no one I date ever doesn’t think they’re appreciated - although I draw the line at going to see “Monster Trucks!”  lol….

    I’m with Kat on this all the way – lots and lots of ways to say thank you and be appreciative without confusing the woman’s movement with splitting the dinner bill like you would with your best friend – and even if you do this with your best friend, please dont’ be someone who say’s oh, I only had the salad so you owe $5.00 more….just. don’t.  Suggest bicycle riding and eat Cheerios!  Save your friendship. 

    In my dating world, a woman that would help clean a man’s apartment was far more in demand than a woman who would pay her own $20 – and I do think there’s a lot to be said for masculinity in  letting him do as he wants – when he initiates, plans, asks, etc. 

    And resenting someone because you paid for her burger and she’s never going to see you again?  Yeah – I’ll stay home from that date, too.  So maybe a burger should be a small consession for the soft, silky, feminine, pretty womann smiling at you across the table – or just part of the cost of admission to the dating world in general!

    1. 222.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Jlina, just to quickly puncture your math: We don’t care about your toenails or your fingernails. We want you to be made up, but you don’t have to lay it on thick. Not to mention that you don’t color your hair, buy new sandals and sundresses, and buy new makeup, and bra and panties set EVERY time you go on a date. No one said that there are NO costs to being a well-maintained woman; just don’t exaggerate them here.

  13. 223
    Gem

    David,

    I’m glad you are taking steps to open the communication and find out if this girl is indeed a match or not. Sounds like perhaps not if she won’t even really talk about it. Either way, being responsible with your finances and open and honest with your partner is admirable and I respect that.

  14. 224
    Jlina

    Evan, lots of men care about your toenails!  In my experience almost all guys have a little foot fetish in them.  I lowballed the maintenance costs actually – said it was more than $200 a month so I did amoratize. (using clothing only for dating without any crossover into work wear and at bargain TJ Maxx pricing, asuming more than one wear…)   It’s probably –  with gym membership and time at gym thrown in more like the aformentioned $800 a month – but for dating I only considered 1/4 of that.  Point is, it takes a huge investment in time and money for me to show up to have someone buy me a burger, or coffee that I may never want to see again.  And who may not go to gym, have decent loafers or get hair cuts!  It goes both ways.  I don’t want to spend 2 1/2 hours on a no return deal either.  But it’s that or don’t date – so – again, it’s the cost of doing business, or admission to the game and no one had mentioned it from the woman’s side.

  15. 225
    A-L

    David,

    Thanks for coming back and clarifying things.  I wish you the best of luck in your efforts to become more independent.  My feelings about your girlfriend are similar to most other posters’, but maybe she will surprise us.

    RE: Jlina‘s #234

    Just because someone goes to France (or another international country) does not mean they expect the man to finance sed trips, or to finance a cushy lifestyle.  I spent a year studying in France and traveling around Europe.  And I would say I’m among the more sympathetic to guys’ financial situations.  A love of travel has no impact on that.

  16. 226
    David

    I would have to agree with Evan on that one. You seem to think that you ONLY do all those things for the date / the man when in reality, you do most of that for yourself. Don’t tell me you got get a manicure and pedicure cuz the guy wants you to. Or go get your makeup done and get some fancy clothing cuz of the guy. Sure you want to look good for him but you also want to look good for yourself- so youre confident and fell good about yourself.
    I mean, to be perfectly honest, I really dont care about all those things. Unless we’re going to a wedding or a nice night out, I like my women to be as comfortable as they please… Onto another thought, I dont find appreciation through monetary reimbursement. I don’t live with my gf, I dont have my own place and I only see her max 3 times a week. We dont have those opportunities to help eachother out and when the opportunity arises, it’s usually just me helping her out. She doesnt cook and she never drives to my house, albeit I live with my parents so thats understandable.
    On the other hand, I do barbeques for her and her roomates, help to clean up and wash dishes, drive her to the grocery store and even help her register for her classes while she is on freakin vacation. All of those things really show someone you appreciate them. All I ask for is some reciprocation.
    And it’s not like she doesn’t have the conversation with me, it’s just that she would rather talk about something other than finances. I made my situation perfectly clear and she understands. It’s what she does with that information that will determine whether or not this relationship sticks.
     

  17. 227
    BK

    Ugh. Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I got about 80 comments in, and I had to respond.
     
    The point has been made that gender equality doesn’t mean gender symmetry/sameness. I agree. The real point of gender equality is nobody should feel the need to play a specific role based purely on that person’s gender. The gender a person identifies with isn’t good criteria for how a person should behave or the role a person should have. It may have been 100 years ago, but we live in a different world today.
     
    It’s fine if women want a man to pay for a date. I agree with Evan that it certainly is EFFECTIVE for a man to pay, and I think the comments here agree with that. However, I think a lot of women here are putting too much emphasis on a man’s willingness to pay for a date. Notice I didn’t say ability to pay. This isn’t about money. It’s about traditional gender roles.
     
    And it’s fine if women want a man who can show he can provide and is generous and exhibits the traditional masculine characteristics. Just as it’s fine if I say I want a woman who is uber-chaste, super-feminine, and ultra-submissive to me because that’s traditional, and it would make me feel like a manly man. (I didn’t say I want that…this is an example.) But I think if I felt that way, then I’d be ignoring the reality of the modern world. Deciding how the financial responsibility of dating should play out is tricky. I don’t think women want a man who is 100% masculine all the time because there’s no room for emotion and caring. I just find it interesting that paying for a date is the manifestation of masculinity that women place so much emphasis on keeping.

  18. 228
    kenley

    David,

    The more you describe your relationship to us, the more I think this girl isn’t the one for you.  You seem to be doing ALL the giving and she seems to be doing ALL the taking.  I think there are some things you need to have a conversation with your potential girlfriend about — some things that might be specific to you and your particular needs.  However, do you really need to tell a girl that she should be contributing more to the relationship than just showing up?  I don’t think so.  My feeling is that when you have to ask for something so basic, that person just isn’t the right one for you.  I think you probably should move onto someone else.

    Good luck.

  19. 229
    JerseyGirl

    Jlina, I never get pedicures or manicures. I do alot of gardening and painting in my spare time and i just never really pay much attention to my nails other then to keep them clean and neat. And i have yet heard a man complain about my feet or hands. Infact, sometimes my hands and nails get stained from paint that no amount of soap will get rid of and it’s something a few men found charming.  I do most of the other maintance you descirbed but i do that for me mostly. Getting my hair done, buying a new outfit, going to the gym are things that make me feel good. Sure, if I have a first date coming up I wll book an apointment to get my hair done if I need to and pay extra attention to my make-up. Being a woman isn’t cheap but i am not going to justify a man paying because he likes the results. Now in a marriage, it might be a little different but in the dating phases? I’m not so sure that’s a good arguement.

  20. 230
    TS

    David, after reading about how you help this girl out at her place and are generally a supportive guy, I’m inclined to change my mind about you – not before reading this, b/c frankly, I don’t see why any cheap/free date has to turn expensive since dinner can be made at home and beer can be bought at the store & I still say it’s the man’s job to show his interest by planning dates – and so say if you’re feeling taken advantage of, then you are.  

    Your call on ending things though in my experience, if things feel one-sided all around, and I mean in all aspects of the relationship, not just who spends what $ on whom, then you’d better like it that way or move on.

  21. 231
    David

    Thank you everyone for your comments. This is one of those subjects where no matter what someone tells you, you go with your gut! Like I said, I am not one to quit so I will definitely work on the relationship, but in the end, you cannot hide true feelings, you cannot hide the direction your heart wants to go in and if it wants to go, then I go!
    Thank you all

  22. 232
    Jlina

    Jersey Girl – Hi!  Cool about the painting and gardening – I do those things too.  But the upkeep for me is not so I feel good, I feel fine.  It’s to maintain a social currency or what in game speak is high value; it’s as applicable to my job as it is to dating.  I will admit tho – I love my happy toes as much as men do.  They’re like little paintings waving up at me.  

    Still, my point is women do a lot of work to show up at that first date that a man probably doesn’t.  Does that require him to pay?  No.  Does him paying make me feel like he’s made an equal committment?  Yes. 

    Does him paying make me think he’s manly or desirable or able to provide? No.  I’ve had first dates at a park, at a McDonalds….and I still like thinking that the person has made some sort of effort to show up, to treat me, to plan – like that.  I want to be appreciated too is the simplest way of saying it.

    Since I wasn’t looking for a man to pay for meals this is more of a logical arguement from me though for factors that weren’t being considered in the conversation.

    And to fantasize about being flown to Paris – it might not be the actualy everyday reality of those of us who like to travel – I speak a foreign language and have lived in a foreign country…..but it is something that is possible and might warrant consideration. 

    I’m off now and wish everyone well.

    David, you sound good and glad you checked back in.  I bet you’re an amazing boyfriend and hope you find the most appreciative girl around.  But, you’ve already learned love’s hardest lesson (in my opinion….) the heart wants what the heart wants.  If you decide you have to walk away, that’s the thing.  Love doesn’t make it all work out, there’s logistics and balance and “good enough” and a continuum to “unacceptable” all along the way.  Good luck!

  23. 233
    Still Looking

    David -

    Chemistry can sometimes blind one to issues of incompatibility.  When I was a poor grad student 25 years ago I gave my girlfriend my credit card to buy a dress for a party.  When she returned with a $500 dress I ignored the huge red flags regarding her sense of entitlement and total lack of concern for my financial well-being.  

    She was an amazing person in many regards but her total lack of financial prudence took a major toll on our lengthy marriage.

    Financial incompatibility is at the root of many divorces….don’t ignore the red flags.

    BTW – I understand your concern regarding the lack of gratitude and reciprocation.  Some people give and take.  Others just take.  Don’t ignore the red flags!

  24. 234
    Goldie

    Have to agree with Evan on #236. As a relatively new dog owner (5 yrs), one thing I find in common between guys and dogs is, both live in the moment and don’t analyze. They just take in the whole picture. Woman looks good and smells good, period, this is where it ends. Just about every guy in my social circle will take this at face value and not pick a woman’s appearance apart, trying to figure out the brand of her clothing, the quality of her manicure and pedicure (I do both at home BTW), whether her clothes are brand-new, previously worn, or several years old, etc etc. I mean yeah, I would imagine that if I go out with, say, a Hollywood movie producer, he’ll probably analyze my looks with more scrutiny, but it’s never going to happen ;)

  25. 235
    Nell

    This is about manners – but not in the chivalry sense. This girl is rude. Get out now. She won’t change, and she will probably meet someone who doesn’t mind the way she is. But you do, so you should move on. (My husband broke up with his [then] girlfriend because she complained about giving a lift to a friend for a weekend camping. Someone else had organised the whole weekend, paid brought the gear, paid for the site, and she was complaining about being ‘used’. My luck was in. We met a month later.)

  26. 236
    Jonathan Marcus

    First, do you have an idea about her finances? If you see that she has new clothes, shoes, bags, etc…then she has money. If not, she may be very tight on finances.
    You need to have a talk with her about finance. How you are with your finances, your view and your attitude. Do you believe in pre-nuptial agreements, etc….
    You need to be the ALPHA MALE and that goes beyond just paying for things. It is an attitude and you need to face your fear and have an honest talk with her about her views on finance. However, do it with tack and don’t just blurt out why she have not paid for anything.
    Also, be creative. Not every date you need to spend $200. Next time you buy ice cream, pretend you don’t have cash on you and if she can pay for this one. Test her.
     
     

  27. 237
    Helen

    David, is it possible that your girlfriend is trying to be a “Rules girl”? It sounds like that, with the insistence that you pay and drive to her place, and going off to France on her own. This is one of the reasons I don’t care for the Rules: because of the reinforcement of gender stereotypes, as many people commenting here have already wisely pointed out.
     
    Feeling taken for granted goes both ways, you know.  Men may feel taken for granted when they are expected to pay for dates.  Women feel taken for granted when we are expected to take on the lion’s share of cooking, laundry, housecleaning, childcare, elder care, grocery shopping, etc. You can be quick to say, “Well, I’m not like that, I don’t expect my man/woman to do that…” but the point is, these were the traditional roles, and many people still unconsciously form expectations based on them.
     
    To Evan’s earlier points about feeling taken for granted: I don’t think anyone ever means it personally. We are just all in an in-between stage,  in which we are transitioning from old to new social norms. Every individual is caught in a different stage in that transition, with some eagerness for the new ways and some wistfulness for the old. Talking things out and understanding the other’s expectations would go a long way here.

  28. 238
    David

    Not sure if this blog post is still alive, but I will continue to post to give some of you a bit more insight. I have addressed this above, but I will reiterate:
     
    She is NOT well off financially. She is going to school and her money is used to pay off rent, etc. She doesn’t buy herself new things and she doesn’t walk around with the fanciest of clothes. Again, she is in a financial stump.
     
    Personally, I don’t make the most money in the world. I am trying to save to move out. We have had this discussion before and now that she’s back from her vacation, I will have to test out whether or not we can continue to collaborate and to progress or not.
    I have had the finance talk with her and while she does not like to talk about it, she seemed receptive to my situation. As far as the “test” goes… We went hiking the other day and I didn’t have cash, and we were at a cash only kiosk. She bought us ice cream and lemonade, which wasn’t really expensive. She seemed ok about it, so that’s a decent sign. I went on to buy dinner and pay for the date later on.
     
    She had bought her France ticket with her last BF last year but they broke up and she had the ticket as extra. That’s why she went. She expressed to me how much she wanted to go with me but I told her I couldnt afford it. She barely could afford it, but worked it out cuz she stayed w/ a buncha friends instead of hotels. Hence, her financial situation.
     
    She does cook breakfast sometimes and I do spend most my time at her house, sleeping over there and stuff. She doesnt like to come to my house and I can understand – I live at home. She does drive out to hang out though (we share a lot of the same friends).
     
    Like I said, there are definitely some RED FLAGS involved and only time will tell whether or not I heed those warnings. I am not quite IN LOVE with her, but I do care for her an awful lot. I will continue to test the waters and return back with an update. Right now I am just happy to have her back and to spend time with her.
     
    She told me “neither of us are giving the relationship 150% and I want to change that; lets change that!” and I was like ok well that’s a good sign. I know im giving it 150%, lets see if she puts her money where her mouth is… no pun intended :)
     
    Thanks again guys.
     
     

  29. 239
    BeenThereDoneThat

    I hate relationship “tests”. 

  30. 240
    Selena

    Relationship “tests” are juvenile. And they often lead to some pretty hard feelings when the person being tested finds out about it.

    You’re not off to a good start if you can’t honestly communicate about what you want and what’s bothering you.

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