I Want My Date to Pick Me Up. Does That Make Me a Princess?

I Want My Date to Pick Me Up. Does That Make Me a Princess
First, let me say that you have changed the way I view men and dating! I can honestly say that I’m having fun dating and have a newfound confidence in myself. But I’m not sure what to do about Chris, a nice guy I met on Match.com. He’s gone out of his way to make me laugh, he follows up via text after a date, and he’s smart, secure, and successful. We’ve been seeing each other a month and will soon have our fourth date. He’s a man with a plan, which I like.

Following your advice, I try to go with the flow and emanate receptive female energy. I like being the catch. However, Chris just texted me that I should meet him at his favorite restaurant for our next date, in his area of town, nearly a half hour drive away. I love the idea of mulligans and looking past our checklists, which I got from “Why He Disappeared” and your newest book, “Believe in Love”. This was a new concept for me. I looked past the sporty jersey Chris favors (I’ve always expected men to dress up for me), but I’m old-fashioned and want to be courted. I want to be picked up, not drive to a part of town I don’t know to meet a man. Yet I’m afraid of coming off as a princess. I’m torn. I like this guy but don’t want to ruin things by insisting he pick me up, yet I don’t want to drive to meet him either. I don’t want to overthink or overanalyze like I used to before I found your advice, yet I can’t seem to shake this one or figure out the best next move. Any thoughts?

Kate

Brian is tall, cute, sane, stable, and relationship-oriented. Even though he’s relationship-oriented, he’s still a man. In other words, he is driven by attraction, likes sex, and tends to move faster because of this. On the third date, he expects you to sleep with him, because that’s what everybody else does and if you were really attracted to him, you would, too. When you refuse, because even though you are attracted to him, you don’t like sleeping with guys who are still active online, Brian tries to negotiate for sex. Eventually he gives up. He says good night. He never calls you again.

Is Brian “wrong”? Well, not in his version of the story. In his version, you seemed really into him, you fooled around a bit, but you were ultimately a tease who had major issues around sex.

In your version, Brian was the guy who didn’t respect your boundaries, who felt entitled to getting his way, even when it didn’t feel comfortable to you. His inability to understand and respect your very valid needs is the reason you’re not seeing him any longer.

Brian acted like a petulant child who didn’t get his way. Don’t be like Brian.

In this hypothetical situation, I’m much more sympathetic to you than I am to Brian. Brian had a vision of how things were “supposed to go” on the third date and when they didn’t go that way, instead of going with the flow, he decided to put bail, and make up some story about how you were a tease to justify his behavior. In fact, Brian acted like a petulant child who didn’t get his way.

Don’t be like Brian.

By the time this blog post comes out, this situation will have already resolved itself. You will have either decided to go with the flow, because it’s no big deal that he asked you to meet him out for your fourth date, or you will have pulled the princess act and decided that this was a dealbreaker.

The major problem most people have in dating – as we can see – is that they have a script in their head about how things are “supposed” to go, and when it doesn’t go according to this script, it becomes problematic. But really, that’s just a form of selfishness, or narcissism or social autism – as if every one in the world has to do things your way or they’re “wrong.”

Men would much rather be appreciated than taken for granted. You’re a modern woman, not a princess.

In successful relationships, 95% of things are no big deal and you let them go, so that when you do speak up on the 5%, he pays attention. Which is why – if he’s a great guy, nagging him about his jersey is pointless. This 4th date chivalry thing is in the same category. If Chris has done everything right for three dates – calling, planning, driving, paying – this is exactly when you should be OFFERING to pick up the check or cook him dinner.

If that’s hard to fathom when I talk so much about feminine energy, it’s really quite simple. Men would much rather be appreciated than taken for granted. You’re a modern woman, not a princess. He’s a man, not a manservant and not an ATM. So really, help a guy out, will ya?

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Sunflower

    Evan’s answer sounds reasonable to me.  Since you don’t care to make the drive, why don’t you suggest he come over for dinner?  I’m sure he would jump at the chance.  

  2. 2
    Cory

    Good suggestion, Sunflower. Or even let him know how you feel, and give him a positive choice. Something like, “I feel uncomfortable driving all that way and not familiar with the area, but I would love to drive with you. Or, I can make dinner for us at my place?” Positive options, either of which would trigger his male instincts: one to protect and provide by driving, the other to have a warm meal prepared for him at your place.

    1. 2.1
      shaukat

      “Positive options, either of which would trigger his male instincts: one to protect and provide by driving, the other to have a warm meal prepared for him at your place.”

      Driving triggers masculine instincts to protect and provide? Where do folks find this pop-psychology trash? 

    2. 2.2
      Joanne

      Good suggestion, Cory.  I agree that she should go ahead and have the (potentially) uncomfortable conversation.  I think a man who cares about a woman would want to know what’s bothering her.  You want to be with a man who’s open to listening to your concerns and preferences even though ultimately you two may not be on the same page.  

      If he agrees to come to her town to pick her up or have dinner at her house, great.  If not, I think that it’s reasonable for him to ask her to meet him on their fourth date.  What’s more important, I think, is the process of discussion and listening between the two people.

      1. 2.2.1
        AllHeart81

        Sure, you want a man who is open to listening. But for the 4th date, that sounds like a bit much. I’d even be exhausted if I had to have a discussion with a guy about my feelings on how he didn’t want to pick me up when I wanted to be picked up. Some things you got to let go. This seems like a pretty easy thing to let go. Especially if he made all the plans for dinner, it’s a small reciprocation.  You can tell when a man is putting effort in by date 4.

  3. 3
    Purrkat

    Sorry, but this gal sounds like a princess. Dating is give and take just like a serious relationship. I meet my boyfriend once a week at a restaurant for dinner since we live one hour apart and we spend every weekend together. He buys dinner one day, I buy it the next.
    This gal is either going to end up being alone because guys aren’t interested in being her pansy or she will end up with some doormat of a guy who is at her beck in call.

    1. 3.1
      N

      Purrkat,

      The first 4 sentences made sense. I, too, believe dating and any relationship must be give and take for it to be healthy. Your last sentence is rather unkind and unnecessary. Nic.

    2. 3.2
      Karla - NineGPS

      This is hilariously on point Purrkat! The princess posture can backfire in a blink of an eye if one is not careful. 

    3. 3.3
      MikeTO

      Great advice and we need more women like you. One of the reasons I don’t bother dating is due to women expect men to pay for everything.

      If a woman is too lazy to drive to meet someone I highly doubt she will cook for him if she knows how to cook well.

      1. 3.3.1
        Jordan

        Most modern day dates and “relationships” are just princess and the plow-horse.

  4. 4
    BeenThruTheWars

    Normally, I think Evan’s advice is great, but on this point I couldn’t disagree more. You’re not a princess for expecting a man to court you properly; you’re a lady with high (not impossible) standards. You appreciate good manners and are looking for a guy who both has them and knows their value. A man who is looking at you as “possible wife material” should be going all out to impress you on these early dates. Once he’s made a commitment to you if you want to meet him halfway for a date sometimes, or go to his place, that’s up to you. But if I were coaching you, I would advise you to be sweet and say, “Oh, I’m sorry, that doesn’t work for me.” If the guy is a keeper, he’ll realize why without an interrogation. I’ve been happily married for over nine years and my husband ALWAYS picked me up for the first three months, even though he had to drive an hour each way to take me out. He didn’t want me driving home at night by myself. After three months when we were in a committed relationship, I did go to his house on occasion, but he absolutely didn’t mind coming my way. He proposed at the six month mark. To this day, he has the most beautiful manners of any man I’ve ever known. I haven’t opened a door since I met the man! And really, isn’t that what you want in a husband? Someone who is that kind of caring and considerate? Someone who will put your comfort before his in most situations? I lovingly reciprocate in many ways, just as I did when we were courting. But if he’d said on date #4, “Here’s the name of the restaurant, meet me there,” and didn’t quickly realize I’d prefer to be treated like a lady? I’m not sure there would have been a date 5.
     
    I’m sure I’ll be flamed for my opinion, but all I can say is, you need to do what’s comfortable for YOU in a situation like this, and not worry about how you’ll be perceived. If being picked up makes you feel more feminine and receptive and allows you to have a better time, then hold out for that. A man who wants to show a woman he can take care of her wouldn’t want her hunting all over for a parking space in an unfamiliar neighborhood when he could be spending that extra half hour enjoying the pleasure of her company.

    1. 4.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I’m not going to flame you. I do think that women can and should have standards, but they shouldn’t raise the bar so high that virtually no one can jump them. In a busy world where men also have a lot of options, you can’t play diva. That doesn’t mean you have to call him to remind him you’re alive, pick up a $200 dinner tab, or sleep with him on Date #2 out of fear he might bolt. It does mean being CONSIDERATE of his needs and wants, and not merely thinking of your own.

      1. 4.1.1
        JD in LA

        Some men are willing to jump through the hoops – the doormats with low dating market value and little options.

        1. RJ

          This dating is a very tenous topic.  There is no one answer on who’s right or wrong, but I think the focus should have been on creating a relationship resolution.  Personally, if the woman in question said something like “look, I really think we have something special here and I don’t want to screw it up by having sex right now; I’d rather wait a little longer because I want this to work”.  Assuming I knew I was falling for her I would have gentally moved her hair away behind her ear, kissed softly on the cheek and said something like, “what you just did shows me how special you are.” And dropped it until she brought it up.  I want that kind of woman who values her body as much as I now do.  Do those women even exist?  

      2. 4.1.2
        Satiya

        lookin hot Evan with that new hairstyle 😉

      3. 4.1.3
        Martyna

        Evan, you know how I respect you as a dating coach. But you are giving this woman right now what is a limiting belief, that this particular expectation of her is set so high that it is almost impossible for anyone to meet this. The reality is that you dont know this. You havent surveyed 1000 men and find out what they reaction to this situation would be. It’s just your feeling and you have no other basis for it. You often give great advice based on your extensive experience but there are also things for which you, and other experts in other things, this happens all the time, simply dont know the answer to, simply did not check the reality this far. To this woman I would say, distance yourself from very clear answers on what is too much for you to ask and what isnt and go check yourself. After some time you will develop intuition. I am pretty sure that if you express it in a way that you would feel very feminine if he could pick you up sometimes,. but you are also open to meeting him there this time if it’s convenient for him (it’s fourth date, offer this openness, it’s a process, a good guy should pay attention to what you ask for, even if this particular time he cannot do this), there will be many guys who will like it and appreciate it. But again, I also havent checked.

    2. 4.2
      Kate

      I 100% agree with BeenThruTheWars- I live in Texas though, and expect my men to act like men 🙂

      I totally disagree with JD- it’s not the low calibre men who step up, it’s a lot of top shelf men too

      1. 4.2.1
        JD in LA

        On the flip side ….. a man expects his women to act like women. Go cook him dinner, clean up afterward, and while you are at it, clean his place and do the laundry.
        I hope this is not the way most of us think these days, or we would all be writing on dating blogs that men are pathetic losers and women are entitled bitches.

        1. Kate

          It’s just different expectations and I think a lot of it is “cultural” or at least regional. 

          My boyfriend loves being a gentleman with me (which means opening car doors and picking me up for our dates)  but I think he’s more of an alpha.  He loves it when I bake for him and do other “womanly” tasks which I happily oblige.  It works for us.  I am cracking up at these “princess” comments though, with those men we’d weed each other out SO FAST.  

      2. 4.2.2
        twinkle

        @Kate: It’s one thing if the guy offers to drive her there though, it would be quite another thing if she rejects the date just because he didn’t offer to drive her there or for her to insist he drives her there.

        Of course when my boyfriend opens the car door for me, I will appreciate it, just like u do. There’s nothing wrong with u accepting his chivalry, as long as u show ur appreciation. but if the guy didn’t do that sometimes, it’s weird for a woman to stand there at the car door waiting for him to do that right? That’s being a diva…Especially since at this early stage, I doubt she has done anything for him. At least u’ve done stuff like cook for your boyfriend. So she shouldn’t be too demanding either.

        I really hope Kate didn’t make a big fuss about this; the more I think about it, the more I think it’s quite a minor matter. Like some other posters said, the guy has shown himself to be good bf material in other ways.

    3. 4.3
      Karla - NineGPS.com

      My prediction is that this guy is going to start yawning very soon because of the antics of a princess.
      A two hour drive is not going to fly. 

    4. 4.4
      Jordan

      You’re not a princess for expecting a man to court you properly; you’re a lady with high (not impossible) standards. You appreciate good manners and are looking for a guy who both has them and knows their value. A man who is looking at you as “possible wife material” should be going all out to impress you on these early dates. Once he’s made a commitment to you if you want to meet him halfway for a date sometimes, or go to his place, that’s up to you.

       

      I’m not a “bad man” for expecting a woman to sex me properly.  I’m a man with high (not impossible) standards.  I appreciate good sex and and looking for a woman who likes sex and knows its value.  A woman who is looking at you as “possible husband material” should be going all out to sex me up on these early sex dates.  Once she’s proven that she is good in the sack, I can meet her halfway for a date sometimes.

       

      See how selfish this sounds?

       

      1. 4.4.1
        Cam Liu

        Men go all out to impress a women, you must be kidding. Guy got to pick you up and then paid for dinner and not something cheap. I would love to be a girl. Free nice dinner and free a taxi. All I have to do is say yes and go out. That sound so nice.

    5. 4.5
      Brighter

      I’m an old fashion lady and I’m totally agree.

    6. 4.6
      Nicole

      absolutely agree…   you nailed it perfectly

  5. 5
    Irish Lelly

    I actually agree with Evan. Give him a break, he has done really well so far, I would give him a medal to be honest. Where I am from (Ireland) and I generalise from personal experience, guys do not follow any of these rules at all. Having said that a handful have, but they tend to be older and often much older men with a better grasp of chivalry and the rules of engagement. I am 45 for context and on the shelf (he he he!).

    For the most part Irish men expect to meet you but in a non committal way,  rarely will they invest up front and offer to take you to dinner (remember we have been in an almighty recession, so even if you aren’t broke, you feel broke). Mainly, they’ll suggest drinks which means the pub here. For context there really is no such thing as one drink in Ireland and teatotallers are viewed as freaks. And if they like you after a few jars, may suggest some soakage food for which you may still end up splitting the bill. Drinking culture is pervasive here, I overstate the matter for emphasis. To often and I generalise, men don’t know how to socalise without getting hammered.

    Needless to say these first dates which are badly planned and only planned around drink are generally a bad idea because you get compromised from many perspectives. I have lost out on dates because I have turned these opportunities down usually because you can’t get to know some one “half cut” and there is always the driving issue. I suspect the motive and the lack of commitment – may I need to refresh my outlook, this could be my issue but hey! 

    When they suggest coming to my town and meeting me in the pub in order to have a drink as drink is so important without a plan for a bed for the night, my alarm bells sound. When I query the hotel or bed and breakfast plan, there is often silence so go figure (nice americanism). I don’t mind meeting in a pub or hotel for day time meet up where drink doesn’t have to be star attraction but generally when a man won’t plan the date beyond his own needs to let his hair down in an Irish way, I usually sign out. I am a bit of a softy and they will be angling for a bed for the night and that is not where I want to be or to have a stranger in my house on the first date or even first few before I even know that this has potential. So count yourself lucky, wish we had more me like yours over here. Do something nice for your guy, go meet him. PS where can I get a Green Card?

    1. 5.1
      Frankie

      Hi,

      I’m English so just across the water… OK I know Ireland does have a bit of a reputation for it’s drinking culture but this really sounds dire. It sounds a bit like a bunch of guys who haven’t been around women for a while so they wrongly think dating is approached the same way as socialising with their mates.

      Not sure how you’re meeting them but if you’re doing online dating, maybe you could describe your ideal date in the ‘what you want in a man section’ eg ‘love to meet for a coffee on a first date’.

      Drinking in the morning isn’t as popular so you could have weekend coffee dates for first dates (assuming you work mon-fri)?

      Best of luck!! 

    2. 5.2
      Nora

      Hi, Im american and happily married and I must say I’ve gone out with many a fella from Ireland and most have been perfect gentleman while on a date. I’d be picked up at my door, taken out for dinner & drinks, helped on and off with my coat…the whole 9 yards. I think its how you carry yourself and if you feel uncomfortable with something like him not picking you up then mention it to him in a sweet way…remember this is only date #4, still very early on in the relationship.

  6. 6
    Karl S

    He wants you to come see his favourite restaurant on his side of town. It’s the 4th date.
    You want him to come over to your side of town, drive you back to his side and then what… do the same again on the way home? This isn’t even a mulligan.

  7. 7
    Fiona

    I’m sympathetic. I live in LA and everywhere feels like the other side of town. No one wants to leave their neighborhood, especially during rush hour traffic.

    He might not realize this bothers you. If you really hate driving, tell him. The guy can’t read your mind. Invite him to your place instead or suggest a closer restaurant.

    But, it’s illogical for him to drive half an hour to your place, then drive back to his neighborhood, then drop you off later. It makes more sense to meet at the restaurant. There’s nothing wrong with having illogical desires. We all do to some extent. But it seems like you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

    1. 7.1
      Joanne

      Yes, it’s definitely illogical for him to do that.  But some guys (okay, my current boyfriend) offer to do that without prompting.  It’s mind-blowing.  I struggled with accepting these offers the first few months of dating, but he made me realize that he didn’t mind going out of his way for me.  

      Now that we are in an exclusive relationship, he still offers to pick me up for dates!  In turn, I’d drive to his house for dinner (and bring something to contribute) or drive myself to meet him if I’m going to be close by during the day.

      Of course, it’s easiest if we can find people with matching preferences (e.g., we both prefer to talk over the phone instead of texting).  If not, then I think it’s worth it to engage in an open dialogue with the other person.  Doing so will give you a better understanding of how the other person thinks and a better sense of how easily you can communicate with one another.

    2. 7.2
      Joe

      It doesn’t sound to me like Kate’s issue is with the driving–it sounds to me more like she doesn’t want to have to put any effort into the relationship, other than emanating receptive female energy.  She doesn’t want to do any work, she just wants to be pampered.  Never mind that Chris has driven to her part of town 3 times already.

      1. 7.2.1
        Cora

        Hi Joe. If that is the case – that she isn’t willing to put any effort into the relationship – then I agree with Evan’s comments also. But, on the other hand, some people have issues with driving at night, getting lost, etc. (I’m only saying as I am one). If the guy offered to pick me up, I would be all for it. But, I have driven pretty far for a date before -and we met at a mutual location and that was fine too. We continued our date and he drove us and returned me to the car – even though it was far out of his way. Stuff like that I really really appreciate. It’s hard to tell if she is just  not putting in effort or if she has anxiety issues about the driving or location, etc.

  8. 8
    Josie

    I’d say give him a chance.  I think it is important to look at this guy’s behavior in context.  Is he calling or just texting? Does he seem flaky about plans in any way?  What other signals are you receiving?  
    We are all increasingly busy these days, so I would hesitate to assume something about his character from this simple driving arrangement.  Let it play out….
    Why not suggest dinner at your place when he asks about a 5th date?  By then, you will have a better idea of how much effort he is making and where things are going .  

  9. 9
    Lauren

    The original poster is a princess.  I don’t get the issue here.  It makes more sense for her to drive herself.  As an independent woman, there is no reason to expect a guy to drive 30 minutes out of his way in each direction to pick her up.  That is just ridiculous and if a man offered to do that for me, I’d say no.  I live about 45 minutes from my current boyfriend and it never even occurred to me that he would pick me up for a date in his area, just like I wouldn’t pick him up for a date in my neighborhood. 

  10. 10
    SAL9000

    Could be Chris is testing for maintenance level. Based on her making this an issues she’s probably already telegraphed a princess vibe.
     
    There is really no right or wrong but it can be noted how behavior compares to the norm. His behavior is about the norm and hers is not – the more off the norm the more dating situations that will not work out. This is her best advice IMO.
     
    If I were in Chris’s position (and I have been) and got a response that led me to believe that she wanted to be picked up or didn’t want to make the drive, I would call it quits. Life’s busy, there are tons of options where I live, and high maintenance ain’t my thing.

  11. 11
    Judy

    Disagree. Four dates in a month is too few. And I would not drive to him to his favorite restaurant. Sounds like a guy who isn’t trying. But the girl should be dating so many other people and so busy she doesn’t care. I would say I am game to meet half way or go earlier in the day to feel safer. It is okay to cook and pay and drive when he has won you for an exclusive relationship.

    1. 11.1
      Joe

      Sounds to me like the guy has done everything right for 3 dates.  Is it wrong to ask the OP to put a little effort out for the 4th date?

      Princess indeed. 

  12. 12
    Jay King

    As usual, great advice Evan. 

    It shouldn’t  always be your way, that’s why in a relationship it is important to give and take.  

  13. 13
    Stacy

    So because her date wants her to meet after 3 dates, it means he is not making enough of an effort?   For crying out loud, he is not expecting her to get on the freaking bus, he is just asking her to drive for half an hour! 

    The answer to her post is yes. Yes, she is acting like a spoiled princess.  This has nothing to do with feminine energy. This has to do with simply being considerate. Why would he have to go all the way to your house, take you all the way back home and drive all the way to his house when it is entirely much more practical for you two to meet? The man has picked you up and most likely bought dinner for 3 dates. Someone referred to ‘hunting all over for a parking space in an unfamiliar neighborhood’. *sighs*  Then if that is the case, (and that’s a big assumption that she will have to be hunting for a parking space…dont we all go out? Are we so defenseless?) then call him and ask that he come to the car or whatever will make you more comfortable. *shaking my head*  

  14. 14
    twinkle

    Sorry in advance for the long post. :p This topic has bothered me in the past too.

    In defence vs those who think Kate is being a princess, I’d say I believe some women do this not because they’re spoilt, but because of fear because they’ve received messages (eg from society or their gfs) that the women who insist on being treated well are the ones who attract the most men.

    I’ve never read the Rules book, but I think I recall reading blog comments saying that that book suggested something like this–not dating men who don’t make dates v convenient for you. That’s the basis for a lot of dating advice–act like a high-value person, and u’ll be treated like one.

    I do believe that pple who follow ‘rules’ like that will do better than the Average person in dating. Because too many pple just don’t have enough self-control, emotional intelligence and balance on their own. Thus if they don’t follow these rules strictly, their insecurities get the better of them and they end up in rships where they get mistreated or unappreciated, like the women who date a guy for a decade without a proposal.

    However that doesn’t mean being clinging and inflexible about these rules is the ideal; the ideal is probably to follow the general principle (of expecting respect and to be courted nicely) while being understanding and respectful yourself.

    For a guy I’ve been dating for months, for the first 2 dates he asked me to meet him there, and like Kate I was inwardly wondering if this was a bad sign but I gave it a go since he was doing everything else right. Thankfully from the 3rd date he picked me up and since then that’s what he always does. He’s asked me to be his gf and all that, and he’s the sweetest thing, so I’m grateful I didn’t reject him based on that relatively minor thing..Another guy I  dated very recently asked me to meet him there for the 1st date, for subsequent dates he picked me up, and he’s been treating me v well also. So it’s a myth that not insisting on being picked up for a date will make guys devalue you as a potential partner.

    I think Kate should say yes to his suggestion.

  15. 15
    Katie

    Well well 

    I must say it’s another side of femminism. She’s a princess, you say! But shouldn’t she be treated nicely? I would decline his offer and insist on more familiar area, or city center. She did mention she compromised on a lot already. 

    Dinner at her place on the fourth date – too early ! What if he’s a maniac? (no kidding, it happens)

    But tell me, should he accompany her back to her house?? It’s dark, late and dangerous! But, if he did drive and she did drive, then… should he drop his car, get into her car and then take a taxi from her house? Sounds ridiculous.  Then what? If he picks her from her place and drives and then drives back, it seems more logical, don’t you think? 

    1. 15.1
      Chaka

      No, it’s not logical at all, Katie.  The danger, the darkness, the late hour, the congestion, the ever-elusive parking space — these are all weak attempts to justify her self-centered princess behavior.

      Her intentional blindness to the idea of both parties pitching in and doing his or her part to make life as easy and enjoyable for EACH OTHER as much and as often as possible is most unbecoming.

    2. 15.2
      Skaramouche

      I must admit, I was really taken aback by your post.  I guess it’s possible that we live in cities that are wildly different in terms of how their men behave and their women behave.  In my city, I would definitely go out by myself and return home by myself in the middle of the night.  I live in one of Canada’s largest cities so while possibly safer than some American cities, it’s still a metropolis.  I definitely take necessary precautions and I try to avoid walking through dark alleys by myself, etc. but not even my husband is there to accompany me EVERY single time I go somewhere new or return home late.  Is that what you’re saying?  Are things that different where you live?  This is a genuine question because everything you said – “dark, late and dangerous” doesn’t seem to apply unless women in your city are always accompanied everywhere.

    3. 15.3
      Lola77

      So. . , she’s ok to get into a maniac”s car?

      See this is why for me I don’t want a guy picking me up at first. If he’s a guy I met online, especially.

      I don’t generally trust getting into cars with guys I just met.

      I say she just pick a equidistant location to meet, drive herself and get over it.

  16. 16
    Noquay

    Driving to meet someone does make one deal with bad traffic, bad weather, is stressful and costs money. It is only fair to share the driving. When I date someone, often it involves a 100 mile drive one way. It is grossly unfair to expect the other to drive all the time  even in summer when its cool and scenic here and hot and not so scenic in the city where good men are to be found. Its a matter of fairness.

  17. 17
    JB

    This is one of those threads where there are certainly some variables depending on the obvious one how close a couple lives to one another. As a guy I have a lot of experience in this area. When I’m dating a woman that lives relatively close I have no problem picking her up and returning her home etc…. Most of the time however out here in the suburbs of Chicago I’m dating a woman that lives 15-30 miles away on average. I’ve never driven 25 miles to pick a woman up and take her on a date in my neighborhood and bring her home and then drive back home. Nobody has that kind of time in their lives anymore. Not to mention most of the night would be spent DRIVING the 100 fricken miles! The woman I’m seeing now lives about 27 miles away. We’ve had 9 dates. I’ve driven out by her 6 times and she’s come by me 3. We’re both comfortable with this. Another thing is she lives with her 21 yr. old daughter so if there’s going to be any “extra curricular” activities going on she’ll be coming to me or we’ll be a celibate couple.  Now if I could just get her to take down her profile like I have I’d be really happy….lol

    1. 17.1
      JB

      Quick update pertaining to this topic. My sweetie asked ME out yesterday for our 10th date to go to a golf course she likes and said she’d drive over to me(27 miles) AND to the course(another 20 miles past my house) and I said “that’s so nice of you but I’ll drive us over there after you come here you don’t have to drive the whole way.” and she said “sounds good!” Listen up ladies…… these are the kind of actions that make a man fall in love with a woman. A little compromise and flexibility really turns us on. 🙂

  18. 18
    peanut

    Thanks, nice article. 🙂

  19. 19
    Nicoletta

    I find myself aligned with what Kate expects.
    In my experience little effort (like never picking up or never calling) indicates a low interest.
    So, if I were Kate I would be concerned if a situation like that becomes a pattern, but if it happens once in a while it’s ok.

  20. 20
    Lauren

    inam amazed at the number of women who think that this is at all reasonable. Kate is asking a guy to drive TWO hours to pick her up and drop her off.  Relationships are about comprise and sometimes it makes sense for him to come to her neighborhood and other times for her to go to his neighborhood.  Driving is not an onerous task and the sense of entitlement exhibited by some of these women is outrageous.  It would be one thing if he expected her to always drive to his neighborhood but this does not seem to be the case here. 

    1. 20.1
      AAORK

      Precisely. And these are the types of women who eventually end up at the doorstep of a dating coach wondering why she cant find that great relationship with a man. In the meantime, they just write self-centered questions and comments on dating blogs.

  21. 21
    Katie

    Okay surely it should be working both ways, but I would do this (go to his area by myself) if it’s saturday morning activity, a brunch, anything that ends before 7pm. I did live in a dangerous neighbourhood and i am precautious now and ever even if it would be the safest area in the world. 

  22. 22
    morgan

    This is an interesting one to respond to because Kate describes herself as “old fashioned” and I’m definitely not that. I’m big on equality – each party in a relationship contributes equally.  I also know that different people have different means of contributing, some of which is based on their gender.
    The traditional (heterosexual) concept of courting is very one way effort-wise.  The man does lots to prove his worth and the woman accepts or rejects, with the assumption that she has inherent worth without effort.  It seems out of wack to me.  It also seems like it sets up expectations of a relationship where the man is expected to do all/most of the heavy lifting and all the woman needs to do is be herself. 
    Both parties in a relationship, male or female, have inherent value.  And both should be putting in effort to build and maintain the bond.  Sure this effort may manifest differently but my question to Kate is….
    What are you DOING to win Chris over?
    and p.s. just consider the idea that maybe he doesn’t like your dress sense either
     
     

  23. 23
    Karl S

    One other thing to consider is that he may have deliberately asked her to make her own way there because, being the 4th date and on his side of town, he intended make an offer after dinner to invite her back to his place for sex.

    If I were in his shoes, I’d find a “no” answer much easier to deal with knowing we could say goodnight at the restaurant and let her drive back to hers while I just mozy on home.

    1. 23.1
      JB

      Exactly Karl, we all like to open the season(first time sex with someone) with the “home bed” advantage. There’s too many things that can go wrong on “the road”(at her house). Just sayin’………..

      1. 23.1.1
        twinkle

        @JB: “Home bed advantage”–omg that’s hilarious. We women sometimes don’t see the efforts that men make to seduce us properly, lol. It’s oddly touching when we find out.

    2. 23.2
      Sunflower

      LOL…..I think someone just hit the nail on the head.

    3. 23.3
      Fleur D.

      Maybe he’s not being SO hot-bloodedly calculated, but asking her to drive 30 minutes for a date (where she likely will be drinking) could beg the question of where she’s going to stay.  My first thought when reading the question was not “why isn’t he picking me up?” but “is it going to be sensible for me to drive home/am I going to stay at his place and what’s going to happen if I do?”   The answer (as usual) comes down to knowing yourself, generally trusting in a guy’s better nature, and being comfortable expressing yourself without drama.  It’s fun to mix it up: driving 30 minutes for a nice date with a guy you like in a new neighborhood, having two glasses of wine over a 3 hour dinner and then driving home is not a big deal.

      1. 23.3.1
        Karl S

        I’m more thinking along the lines of Karmic Equation, where having the car on hand gives her greater power to choose to stay or to leave at any time because the easy exit is right there on hand. Of course, if she drinks more than the limit, that makes things more complicated.

  24. 24
    SeaChangeSeeChange

    Honestly, it sounds to me like Kate doesn’t quite understand why making a compromise in this scenario is better than toeing the hard line. Either that, or she isn’t truly interested in Chris for who he is as a person and doesn’t see the value in giving her time and effort to him in return for all his [showing up and looking pretty is not a fair trade, despite what many appear to think].

    Chris has been consistently making the effort despite the very same distance that gives her pause; why should he be the only one putting forth the actual effort? Sure sure, I know it’s “early” in their dating relationship but after three weeks and three dates, it’s perfectly understandable — and a positive sign! —  for him to want to (1) show her where he lives, (2) share with her his favorite restaurant, and (3) expect that she begin acting like a partner by sharing the burden of driving. 
    Granted, there’s a lot we don’t know here but it sounds to me like she really doesn’t understand (at this point) the balance required for a healthy dating relationship — maybe she hasn’t sussed that out from the books yet. Sometimes the focus seems to land on “he’s doing everything right so it must mean he’s a good match for me” rather than evaluation of their compatibility. 

    As with anything, it’s all a learning process but it just sounds to me like Kate is choosing the wrong battle to fight. I’d love to see her express her concerns to him about not knowing the area, etc, and then see what happens from there (and maybe even try to find the compromise!). This would tell her FAR more about Chris as a person than him simply showing up because she demanded it.

    Chances are that if he’s TRULY interested in her and values her the way he should if considering a LTR, he’ll do the driving and show her around so that she can feel safer next time.

  25. 25
    Karmic Equation

    I don’t get the big deal about driving to meet someone.
     
    I myself prefer to drive to new-places-to-me for first dates. Or if the guy doesn’t mind driving, driving to meet him some place closer to me than to him. What I don’t want is some almost-stranger picking me up at my place. I would even say that until after I’ve slept with him at his place, he doesn’t get to sleep with me at mine.  
     
    Think about it, if you’re driving your own car, you can opt out of the date at any time if you’ve driven to meet him. If the date goes well, you can feel a little naughty by giving him an unforgettable good night kiss or light make out “in the open” and then ride off into the sunset, so to speak 🙂 That PG exhibitionism is something guys seem to enjoy. Makes them feel naughty too. And the fact that you can kiss him and leave him without looking back leaves him wanting more.
     
    If you decide you need more privacy, you can always follow him to his place, and then leave anytime you feel like it, with an excuse “I have to get to work/have to be somewhere early in the morning”. Whereas if he goes to your place, and HE leaves when HE feels like it, then you might feel “abandoned” if you don’t want him to go yet and/or you have to find a nice way to get him out of your place when you’re ready for bed, but don’t want to share it. I like “abandoning” the guy after making out with him at his place…Because, frankly, if you leave without sleeping with him or when he’s sleeping, he’s not used to it. I do this even with bfs sometimes. Keeps things interesting 🙂 Men are used to women wanting stay to over and wake up cuddling in the morning. When you leave in the middle of the night, they feel a little odd. It’s not a bad thing to keep a guy a little on edge like that.
     
    Women need to embrace her independence to come and go whenever she pleases and not be at the mercy of a man to come and go, especially during the dating phase. I feel having a guy pick you up for dates should happen once you have some sort of relationship going, e.g., 6 or more dates.
     
    However chivalrous being picked up may feel to you, the reality is you’re at his mercy for the duration of your date. I don’t want any man I’m dating to know where I live until I’ve determined I think he’s the kind of guy I’d like to have as my friend. A lot of first, 2nd, third dates don’t pan out into relationships. I’d rather those guys never know where I lived. Better safe than sorry. There’s plenty of time for him to be chivalrous once you’re friends.

  26. 26
    LC

    If she doesn’t want to sleep with him, inviting him over for dinner sends the wrong message.  I’d drive to the restaurant and meet him, but I wouldn’t go home with him this night just in case he’s decided that he’s going to pump and dump me for not sleeping with him yet.  Plus, any time I’ve ever reciprocated by cooking for a man or picking up the tab so early in the relationship, I have gotten dumped.

  27. 27
    goldstreet

    Ladies Ladies Ladies-  Up your standards and don’t be fooled.  During courtship, the man comes to the woman.  The man must be willing to do what makes her comfortable.  The man must be willing to go out of his way and come to HER.  Does the egg go to the sperm? I think not.  Any man who does not want to pick you up for a date—for each and every date— is either too comfortable/confident, not trying to impress, or not invested.  BOY BYE.  Do you want your marriage to be like that?  Do you want your future husband to put his needs before your own?  If you ask “am I being a princess for wanting him to come to me?”  Well turn it around ask yourself- is he being a princess for asking you to come to him?  Between the two- who really should be a princess?  Not a man! Fllow your gut instincts and female nature, miss.  You know you want to be treated like a princess, so go ahead and enjoy a man that loves to give.

    This is very typical American guy behavior- want women delivered to them like pizza.  Men from other countries (I have lived abroad) do not do this. They wouldn’t dare ask a woman to come to them. I have had men drive back and forth to come see me and drop me off, take long train rides across town, heck even borrow friend’s cars to pick me up.  You only have to require it, and they WILL do it if they really like you!  I have had men tell me that its refreshing that I ask them to.  It is FEMININE behavior to let the man lead and take care of you and the details while you show up, ready to act like a lady, look good, dress well, and be pleasant company.  You will enjoy it, appreciate it, and the ying and yang works better this way.  That is all.

     

    1. 27.1
      Noemi

      I’m Romania. As such, I often meet many other Romanians, especially those who are new to America. Yes, they’ll come to you. They’ll take care of you. They will be the man in the relationship. But you better cook and clean for them, and care for their children that you bear. You can’t have your cake and eat it, dear. Relationships are all about give and take. It’s up to you what you choose to give and to take. 

    2. 27.2
      AllHeart81

      I got a good laugh out of , “Does the egg go to the sperm…” Lol. 🙂 Good one.

      Do I want a man who puts his needs before my own? No. Do I want a man that supplements to every little need I have and have no expectations for me to be giving in the relationship in turn? I don’t want that either. I have relationships not just so I can see what I get, but so I can expand what I give. And while I very much like to be the receptive energy, I still want to be able to do things for him in return. This seems like a small thing to do for a man in return.

  28. 28
    Karl S

    <i>This is very typical American guy behavior- want women delivered to them like pizza.  Men from other countries (I have lived abroad) do not do this. They wouldn’t dare ask a woman to come to them.</i>

    You’re welcome to limit your dating pool, if you so choose, to men from other countries. Good luck if you happen to live in America though.

    1. 28.1
      JB

      You’re right Karl. I’ll take my beautiful down to earth compromising woman I’m falling in love with any day over any of this high maintenance game playing bullsh*t. My girl took her profile down yesterday and we’re now exclusive. We’ll take turns driving to see each other just as we have or god forbid we might actually use communication and common sense and let it depend on what we plan on doing and where it is…..lol

  29. 29
    Henriette

    “You know you want to be treated like a princess…”  Well, I prefer to be treated like a woman, not a princess.  It sounds as though this guy has been making a consistent effort with her and now it’s her turn to make a bit more of an effort.  Keep observing how he behaves in the weeks & months to come.  It he begins to make less and less effort with her, THEN it is time for her to cut her losses.  For now, his request seems perfectly reasonable. 
     
    “Go ahead and enjoy a man that loves to give!”  Men have to be careful they don’t fall for women who “love to take!”  Evan is right; this is a lovely opportunity for Kate to show that she has no interest in being a petulant child who expects the man to wait on her hand and foot. 
     
    “This is very typical American guy behavior…”  Haha.  Lots of men come to this site recommending overseas brides in place of entitled, selfish American women.  They are not warmly received.  I do not appreciate American male-bashing, either, especially when the guy in Kate’s post sounds like a genuinely attentive, thoughtful fellow.  If you prefer overseas men, please date them but refrain from disparaging good local men.
     

  30. 30
    AAORK

    I’ll sum this up with the simplest explanation possible: she’s acting this way because he’s not HOT enough (the definition of which is purely defined by her). It’s really as simple as that. In other words, if this guy was in the top 5-10% tier (the ones all women trip over each other to be noticed by) she would do whatever was needed to see him again. Because he is not top-tier, she’s just “shit testing” him to discover his boundaries while loading up on potential excuses for rejecting him. In the end, guys like Evan are the only real winners because women like this eventually end up in the client pool of lonely, frustrated and somewhat bitter 30/40/50-somethings carrying the “Man Up!” banner while wondering “Where are all the good men?”. You’re welcome.  

    1. 30.1
      Karmic Equation

      Most men aren’t hot enough, AAORK. lol — So that just makes this man the average man most women date.
       
      I’m not sure if she’s shit-testing him, but she is under “old-school delusions”, IMO. Picking up women for dates are great when you’re in high school, when typically the boy has a car, but not the girl, it made sense. But in this new world of online dating, where where both adults have cars and might live “far” from each other, it really should not be a big deal. Both parties need to make the effort to meet for the date. Make sure it’s something interesting and worth traveling to. If it’s just drinks or dinner, meet half-way.
       
      If being picked up means that much to the OP, she needs to date people within 15 minutes of her.

      1. 30.1.1
        AAORK

        Oh she is definitely shit-testing him; its what women do, and that’s OK. What’s not ok is when she and other women deny it for what it is, or worse, wield it as weapon instead of a shield. This will run it’s course and like many other women like her, she’ll eventually become a client of Evan’s (unless she already is) or some other ‘Dating Advisor’ and .. the cycle continues ..  

        1. Karmic Equation

          You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to 🙂
           
          Shit-testing isn’t this. This is being a diva at worst. Misguided at best on what types of “effort” she should evaluate in men. She’s putting the emphasis on the wrong kind of effort.
           
          But we do agree that if she retains misguided expectations like this, she will not ever find love. In this world of online dating, the divas get chucked unless she’s hot. Then she gets chucked after she’s been pumped.
           
          She’s probably afraid that’s what’s going to happen: she makes the effort. He woos her to bed. Then he never calls again. And her take on this will be “I tried to make an effort for him and he dumped me anyway; so I”m never going to make the effort again.”
           
          That would be solving the wrong problem. The problem wasn’t her effort, the problem was her diva-ish attitude. Get rid of the diva attitude and she’ll have a better chance with the next guy.

    2. 30.2
      JB

      You are correct he probably isn’t “hot” enough, tall enough, rich enough, or high status in general ie: education, job title, income etc…. enough or she would do whatever it takes to keep him interested just like those wonderful gals on The Bachelor who can’t “demand” anything because they will be eliminated by the high value male with many options that they see right in front of them.

    3. 30.3
      Henriette

      Funny how differently we can perceive things, AAORK & JB.  As a woman, I generally assume that a hot, successful, charming man has many options and knows how to treat a lady well.  So, if he acts in an inconsiderate manner, I figure that he’s not terribly interested in me and I pull back/ start to lose interest.  However, when a more “normal” guy is inconsiderate, I tend to cut him some slack because I figure he might not be “smooth” enough to know how to properly court a woman and I imagine he doesn’t have 20 other women waiting in line for him so why would he purposely blow his chances with me.  HAhaha.  I know – it’s messed up (although, no more/ less messed up that your fictional women who will bend over backwards for the Hot guy).   As a result, I’ve probably blown off many more hot guys and accepted crap from many more  “regular” guys than I should have.  Most of my friends are the same (wary and quick to cut losses with rich popular men and patient with geeks).  And no, none of us is ugly, obese or desperate 🙂
       
      So, while there are ~ no doubt ~ women who will do anything for a date with a hot guy, I suspect this is less common than you imagine.  Other ladies reading this… what do you think?!?
       
      And, oh, just for the record, I don’t think the guy mentioned in the OP’s letter is inconsiderate for asking her to drive on the 4th date. 

      1. 30.3.1
        JD in LA

        No use to waste time, efforts, and emotional energy on the hot guys when they show you that they are not that interested in you.

        I am not sure though how many women have that level of self-awareness. 

         

      2. 30.3.2
        JB

        “although, no more/ less messed up that your fictional women who will bend over backwards for the Hot guy”
        The women on every season of The Bachelor are not “fictional”. They’re all too real and sad. They cry after being dumped by a guy who some of them have never even gone with.

        1. Henriette

          @JB – I’m afraid I shouldn’t have used the word, “fictional.”  As I mentioned in my post, I do think there are women of the ilk you & AAORK describe, who’ll do anything for a hot guy who isn’t making an effort for her.  (I used “fictional” but should have used a word more along the lines of “hypothetical” … these women exist but we’re not talking about any specific women that we know).  I just don’t think they represent the majority of women, especially not attractive women with healthy self-esteem.
           
          Also, while I agree that some of women accept shoddy treatment from hot guys in “real life,” I hope you realise that “reality” television has little to do with real life.  You do know that the Bachelor ~ and similar programming ~ is heavily scripted, right?  And that producers talk to the women off-camera to whip them into emotional frenzies, etc.   And that they select women who will help them create entertaining tv (hint: calm, well-balanced women are less amusing to watch than neurotic messes).  So, please, don’t paint all or even most of woman-kind with the Reality TV Woman brush! 🙂

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