How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested in Me?

How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn't Interested in Me?

I haven’t found a solution for this. How does a 56 year old man find a good younger woman that would be interested in marriage and willing to have children by him? She would need to be 36 to 38. Most good sites line me up with the 50 year olds and most 36 year olds tend to think I’m a dirty old man.  I know that such a person exists but can’t find a good avenue to find her. I am fairly well to do and well educated.

Dale

Thank you, Dale, for acknowledging a few very common truths from the world of online dating.

You’re a successful older man who wants to date a woman significantly younger than him.

Websites generally attempt to pair singles with matches who are demographically similar.

Most 36-year-old women think you’re a dirty old man.

Now you’re going to get the same song and dance as every other guy who has written to complain about women on the Internet. I’m going to put you in HER shoes.

So let’s say you’re a 36-year-old woman, entering the prime of your life. You’re done with the bar scene and you’re very much interested in settling down to have a family of your own. How do you set your search criteria? Well, if you’re born in 1971, you’re part of Generation X. You went to high school in the 80’s. Your friends are buying their first houses and having their first kids. You probably want something that looks similar. So you search for men 35-45. Yeah, 45 is a little old, you say, but you want to be open-minded. Maybe he’ll still be vigorous enough to keep up with your active lifestyle.

And then you, the 36-year-old woman, post your profile, and what happens? You get BOMBARDED by emails from fifty and sixty something Baby Boomers looking to trade up in the world. You double check your profile to see if there’s something you wrote that’s attracting these older men. You remove that reference to Steely Dan. You cut how you want to travel in style. Yet these men keep on writing – talking about how they’re young for their age, how they’d love to have children, how they have everything in life except a good younger woman.

If you’re 36, you’re pretty darned confused by these emails. By the time you have your first child, you’ll be 38 or 39. Which will make him, what? 58 or 59? By the time the kid is in high school, Dad will be 74! That’s not the kind of life you imagined for yourself or your children. So you politely decline. Or, to keep things simple, you ignore. And ignore. And ignore. It doesn’t stop older men from writing, but at least you don’t have to explain yourself to a man who doesn’t want to hear your perfectly valid explanation.

Understand, Dale, there is nothing wrong with you being attracted to a fertile and youthful woman in her 30’s. Really. I’m not judging you. But you must understand that any woman you desire online has choices. Lots and lots of choices.

She can go out with a cute, successful man who is 35. Or 40. Or 45. Or 50. Are you getting the idea? This does not mean that you’re not a great guy with a ton to give and the purest intentions. It’s that you’re failing to recognize what most younger women want. A peer. A partner. Not a father figure. You’re still wrapped up in what YOU want.

Needless to say, this goes for ALL people who are dating online. … We want what WE want, even if what we want is unrealistic. We’re all so dazzled by looks and youth that we pass up amazing people who are a much better fit. Who are you going to have more in common with? The woman who graduated high school in the same year as you? Or the woman who could be your daughter?

“I can’t help what I’m attracted to,” say all of my clients – both male and female. And hey, I don’t blame them. I do know, however, that as long as they close their minds to dating people who are age-appropriate, they’re really going to struggle with online dating.

I know you were looking for advice, Dale, so I don’t want to leave you without it. As I see it, you have three options. One, sign up with one of those successful men/younger women sites. At least you know that a woman on MillionaireMatch might be more willing to sacrifice youth for security.

Next, since you can’t convince someone to date an older man, stop trying. To find out who IS interested, try Match.com’s Reverse Match. Instead of searching through hundreds of thirtysomething women who wouldn’t give you a second look, Reverse Match shows you who IS open to dating a 56-year-old man. There’ll be fewer numbers, but at least you won’t be wasting your time.

Finally, I implore you to give older women a shot. There are a lot of amazing ones out there and they are criminally underappreciated.

Let’s just hope that they don’t discriminate against men their own age.

 

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Dawn

    This is so true, and it doesn’t stop in the 30s, either. I’ll be 42 in a couple of weeks, and in two years of online dating, I’d say about 70% of the people who write to me are fifty and over, often MUCH over. I think the record so far is the 74-year-old who said he could have his daughter pick him up at the nursing home and bring him into the city if I were willing to meet for coffee. I wish I were joking about that.

    Your last line is telling, though, and hints at the broader trend. I absolutely want to date someone age-appropriate. Unfortunately, it seems that all the men my age only want much younger women, which leaves me with the 20-somethings who think “MILF” is an appropriate subject line and write messages about being “into older women,” and the aforementioned geriatric (or borderline) set. The middle is one big desert.

    If everyone is looking downstream, age-wise (except the few who have a “kink” for older types), where does that leave those of us who really are looking for a peer? Does this mean I’m only focusing on what I want? Should I adjust my objectives to what the market has to offer? This question is exactly why I’m on a dating hiatus at the moment, since I just can’t bring myself to seek out a much older man, or play the cougar.

    1. 1.1
      Kelly

      Amen sister.

    2. 1.2
      RustyLH

      Dawn, what do you consider age appropriate? You mentioned most of the men contacting you being 50 and older, as if 50 was a bad thing. I would say that at 42, up to 54 is age appropriate. yes, 54 being the upper limit, or close to it.

      I have found by discussing this with nearly every guy I know that men for the most part ARE attracted to women who are younger. Now some, like Dale, are unrealistic about that, and I would argue, not really thinking clearly.

      Also, I would note that on most of the online dating sites, most women are doing one of three things. They either go equal both sides of their age, like if she is 36, she will go 30 to 42. Others will go about 3 years older, to about 12 years younger, and the final group will go from their exact age to 10 to 15 years younger. This shows a clear preference for younger men. Welcome to Unrealityville. All I can say is good luck. Men have not changed. We still prefer women our age or younger. So what women are doing is simply reducing the pool of men that they will potentially match up with.

      Thanks to the internet, the men of this country are not a captive audience. More and more are turning to women from other countries. I hear women here use all kinds of stereotypes to comfort themselves, such as saying that men just want a subservient woman. Wrong. First that is a stereotype that isn’t true of those women. Here is a western woman living in the Orient explaining hos living there opened her eyes as to why western like Asian women. Note that she never says subservient. It’s only about 1:30 long.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD5Q_AFWdHY

      Here’s a western man…American…living there explaining why he finds them attractive. Note that he never mentions being subservient, but he does give a whole lot of other reasons.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J28hPlmv794

      What I will say first is that I have been talking with women both in South America, such as Brazil, and also women in the Orient. Women from Brazil that have been here tell me that they find the attitude of women here appalling, and also note that it seemed cold here between men and women. They all tell me that one thing that really stood out to them was how so many couples walk around without touching…no hand holding, etc…

      Both women from South America and he Orient tell me that they notice a huge lack of respect for men when they come here.

      So should it really come as a surprise that more and more men are turning to other countries?

      /tangent

      1. 1.2.1
        Cathie

        Oh rusty! The times have changed and you have to accept that. Also any man looking for foreign women usually find them in developig countries- as in they (the women)  are desperate and need that golden ticket to the US. Women nowadays have power and men such as yourself do not want to accept that.  I find that if you’re a male or female dating someone who is old enough to be your child, it’s just wrong and gross. I mean what woman/man in her/his 20’s or 30’s  would want a 40+ saggy body? It’s unnatural!

        1. RustyLH

          LOL Cathie, you are very uniformed and full of tired debunked cliches. Many foreign brides do not come from 3rd world countries. Even those that do often live decent lives there because they are educated, and have access to the internet, and because they are educated, many know English. Many on these sites want an American husband but want us to move there, such as the 40 year old federal prosecutor in Brazil, or the 41 year old woman in China who has a real estate business.

          Most marriages of this type survive much longer than marriages between two Americans.

          I don’t have any issues with woman having power, but it seems you have a problem with men still having power. Also, I find that most American women who have an issue with younger women dating older men really have, at heart, an issue with it because of the perceived power structure they believe will exist. They believe that the older man will exert power over the younger women. That’s actually not even close to true in most cases.

          But you are very right. Times are changing. Lisa has been showing outdated percentages of marriages with a 5+ and 10+ age difference from 2006 but the numbers from 2012 show that those numbers have doubled. Nearly 1/4 of all marriages have an age difference of 5+ years. and 10.5% have a difference of 10+ years. 1/10th is not an insignificant amount.

          I really am not bothered by what anyone here thinks because I know what my own life is like. The truth is, my preference is up to about 12 years younger, but I get the most attention from women under that age. I have had women in their early 20’s to early 30’s very aggressively pursue a relationship with me. So the truth is, I could care less if they were the only women that do this…that is my reality…and then there is the fact that I know many men that also have that reality.

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          Enough, Rusty. We got the point. You like younger women. You can get younger women.

        3. RustyLH

          You may get it but it seems most do not and most here seem to be deluding themselves as to the reality. Nearly 1 in 4, to 1 in 5 marriages involve a man being older by 5+ years. Thus it is wise for women to rethink their prejudice against a guy say, 7 to 8 years older. Sheesh, when she’s 42 and he’s 50, that nothing. 26 and 18, yeah, that’s different, and the 26 year old would be wise to rethink marriage because at 18, she hasn’t a clue who she is or what she wants. Divorce is very likely.

          It seems to me you give out solid advice, at least most of the time…solid enough that any woman who chooses to learn from it should be able to solve her problems with men, because in all likelihood, her problems have more to do with her default attitude toward men. That is impossible to keep hidden for long.

        4. Tuff

          saggy old body my arse.  I’ll kick your saggy fanny all over 1 5k  10 k half marathon, course any day of the week and I am 60.  On a regular basis I leave people 20-20 years my junior miles behind. Take your sterotype an shove it.

        5. alexis

          Exactly Cathie!

    3. 1.3
      Priya

      I’m turning 30 soon and I don’t want to play nursemaid to a guy in his 50s who will probably have a stroke or heart attack within a week Or has to use tons of Viagra! 

      1. 1.3.1
        Don

        I am 57 almost 58 belong to a gym work out everyday DO NOT NEED VIAGRA and my wife tells me I am sexually satisfying in every way! I drive a nice car own 2 houses and have 2 pensions and treat my wife like a queen! She still thinks i am a pain in the ass! You definitely need a wake up call you probably date a guy in his 30’s that takes you for granted do not knock us older guys we know how to treat women right!

        Priya you sound very self-centered wait till you get older then maybe you will respect older men! Shag the cabana boy? Date a 50 + guy for money? You must be a hot 10?!

    4. 1.4
      Don

      WHY NOT GO OUT WITH AN OLDER MAN AND MAYBE LEARN SOMETHING FROM HIM? I AM NOT TALKING SEXUALLY BUT OLDER MEN ARE MORE MATURE AND MAYBE HE CAN TEACH YOU SOMETHING ABOUT HOW MEN THINK? I AM MARRIED AND WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A COUPLE OF YOUNGER WOMEN JUST AS FRIENDS TO MEET AND HAVE COFFEE AND BULLSHIT WITH. MY WIFE COULD CARE LESS AND ALTHOUGH I AM A FAITHFUL LOYAL HUSBAND MY WIFE JUST THINKS OF ME AS A PAIN IN THE ASS! Take care 

  2. 2
    Roger

    Hang it up Dale. Or, be prepared to spend years searching for something you probably won’t find.

    It’s hard enough to get a pretty woman to respond to a guy who is only 10 years older (even if he’s good looking and successful). You’re 20 years older. You’ve been watching too many movies Dale, where 55 year old guys are getting hot 30 year olds. Doesn’t happen in real life, except in very rare situations. Like Even says, why should a woman date you, even if you’re successful and good looking, when she can get the same version of you that’s 15 years younger.

    I’n not knocking you. I was the same way when I started online dating (though I was looking for women who were “only” 10-15 years younger than me.)

    I was in for a rude awakening. The flip side is that I have really learned to appreciate women closer to my own age now. And Evan is right, these older women are underappreciated and in many cases they are undervalued gems. Now I can’t believe I wasted so much of my time chasing young women and was so stubbornly opposed to trying women in my own age range.

    1. 2.1
      Jenny

      He should keep trying. I guess I am the rarity you speak of, but I am 34 and I have dated 50 – 65 year older because I can relate more to them than those my age. Please men, remember, it is more than just a check list of statistical data…it is not always the bank account we look at or the level of success…for some, it is about connecting and happiness, because everything else can fall into place.

      1. 2.1.1
        hunter

        ……..university of harvard did a study, and found 2/3’s of all women look for financial security….

        1. Jennie Conway

          yeah that s true but once they get the “stuff” from ur old ass they are going to look for a young boyfriend

        2. Garret

          WOW Jennie!

          A woman in another post stated that there are creeps and gems all ages of both genders. I think she was right. Your post points to a very creepy mind. Oh sure, there are some gold diggers out there, but to think that all women who marry an older man are just after his wallet and then will be sneaking out the window to meet up with a young stud…well if that is what you think, then you must have nothing but bad experiences in your life.

      2. 2.1.2
        lisa

        Women  marry men 5-9 yrs older in only 12%  of marriages. The odds of marrying a woman 10+ yrs younger are only 7%.
        Women typically don’t marry men more than 5 yrs their senior.

        1. hunter

          Lisa,

          “Women typically don’t marry men more than 5 years their senior”…..no they don’t, I agree with you…….could that be why there are many single women out there?…  

        2. Lisa

          You seem to be saying women should be open to dating older men but are you as open minded?
          I’m not sure what you mean by,  “so many single women out there.” What age demo are you referring to and to what statistics?
          There have also been 15 years worth of studies showing that men’s fertility drops with age. A recent study showed that by 40 men have lost 40% of there fertility. Another showed that if a woman is in her 30s her chances of getting pregnant are cut in half if her partner is in his 40s.
          The reality is that women prefer to marry around there own age and men are going to have to be more realistic if they want to find a spouse.
           

        3. RustyLH

          Lisa, the point isn’t what percentage does what, the point is, what works for you.  For you, a man 9 years younger might work…but the odds are very much against that also.  The point here is that if a woman wants to get married, and what she is doing isn’t working for her, she may…MAY…want to alter her search pattern.  Only a crazy person continues to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.
          I am friends with a woman who I would probably date, but it will never happen.  Why?  She is hooked on young men.  From the time she was in her mid 20s, she has dated guys younger than herself.  She has the looks to attract ANY man so it is no surprise that she can date men in their 20s, even today, at 43.  She has dated men anywhere from 3 years younger to nearly 20 years younger.  She has had many short term relationships lasting up to 5 years in one instance, a few at 3 years, several at around 1 to 2, and many many more that only lasted a few months at most.  She is insistent that she just needs to find the right one.  But her time is running out.  My prediction is that her looks are going to fade, and she is going to end up alone.  She’s addicted to younger men and so she can’t even look at an older man sexually, and she has had some decent older men, and even men just a year or two older, show he a lot of interest.
          She too thinks it is unfair that men tend not to want to marry an older woman, and it makes her angry…but that and $1.79 will buy her a coffee.  We don’t get to dictate what the playing field will look like, we only get to play on it.  Some will make plays, and some will end up being bench warmers.
          One last thing is that I keep seeing some women state that while there are some well maintained older men, most aren’t.  Well nobody says you have to date all of them.  If a woman decides to expand her choices to include older men, she doesn’t have to date all older men, she just has the option to date one she finds attractive.  I have seen many women do this and then say that it was the best relationship they ever had.

        4. RustyLH

          @Lisa
          “The reality is that women prefer to marry around there own age and men are going to have to be more realistic if they want to find a spouse.”
          Well, that’s debatable.  Men have other options to find a younger woman if that is what he wants.  Again, the issue is that if that works out for her that is fine, if that’s what she wants.  But there are women open to a marriage with an older guy and they may very well end up happier as a couple than her friends who married men close to their own age.  So the point is, if it works out, fine, but if it isn’t working, a woman may want to change her preferences.  Simple as that.
          Besides, with reference to the marriage thing, weren’t we discussing on this very site that men are much more comfortable foregoing marriage than women are.  So we could just easily say, women on this site aren’t having luck in marriage…dating maybe, but marriage no…so we could say that if she wants a spouse, she needs to be more realistic, right?

  3. 3
    Eve

    How about those of us who are in our 20s who endure the emails from those in their 40-60s? I am 26 years old. I told my mom about this issue and she found it rather disturbing that people that much older than me were interested in that way. This is coming from my mom who is 17 years younger than my father.

    Thanks Evan for your insightful articles.

    1. 3.1
      Ronnie

      I am a man who presently is 48 and I would be most disturbed if I received the attentions of a woman in her forties. I have now found that I have a psychological hurdle to get over convincing myself to react positively when an attractive young woman shows that she is interested in me because there are so many in society constantly bombarding me with a message that it is all unrealistic nonsense. If I wanted a forty something woman, I would have chased after one 25 years ago, rather than have waited all this time. I am not looking for a mother figure, exactly as I did not need one when I was 20.

      1. 3.1.1
        Erica

        You are 48, and you would be disturbed by the attention of women in their 40’s?? I could maybe comprehend if you said something like “not thrilled”, but “most disturbed”??? Why disturbed?
        And how is a woman your age or even several years younger a mother figure to you?
        It seems like you think you are still 20y.o., and have all the emotional maturity that goes along with that age.

        1. J.S.

          I’m 53 and married.
          Women half my age are always hitting on me. Even when I’m out with my wife (we laugh about it often). Oviously I’m not the long term solution for these women.
          I enjoy the attention.
          Am I attracted to these women? Damned straight. Nothing like a young, hot body. In my experience, they tend to be quite fickle and flaky. Often to the point of not being worth the bother. Not having sorted out there own emotional or hormonal irrationalities.
          I understand their predicament. They have something of immense value and plenty of men willing to pay them for it, in a manner of speaking. Would one expect such young, very attractive women to not try to take advantage of her value in every way possible. This often means having a couple of older successful guys in their quiver to help them get over the humps in life.

      2. 3.1.2
        Lisa

        I think women are more open to one night stands or flings with men who are as much as 10 yrs older but I don’t know any stats on it, it’s just from personal experience. In terms of marriage, women rarely marry men more than 5 yrs older. Your odds of a long term relationship with a women 10+ yrs younger are 7% but a some of those are women marrying wealthy men so your odds are probably less than that. Unless your filthy rich, of course.

      3. 3.1.3
        Scotty

        Good for you mate! I support and agree with you on this matter.  I am do tired of these older birds trying to dictate the rules of dating. If Dale even wants a 23 year old well that is his choice. I agree with him as well. I would suggest a few things for him. Like perhaps get a nice big boat, work out at the gym and have a hip wardrobe. He will easily get the young birds.  I would not suggest he get married. Also, he should listen to the Tom Leykis Show at http://www.blowmeuptom.com.  Especially Leykis 101 on Thursdays every week.

    2. 3.2
      Jay

      You know I am so tired of hearing 20 something’s say there is something wrong with an older guy being attracted to a younger girl. (Or even worse older ladies that have issues with it but for very different reason)
       
      i am 42 and i of course am attracted to all kinds of different women , younger being one of the many types. How is it wrong to see a beautiful girl in her 20s 30s and be attracted? It’s called human nature and there is nothing wrong with it.  I totally respect that some women want to be with guys closer to their age and that’s great. But people stop acting like there is something so wrong with age disparity in relationships.!!!! 

      1. 3.2.1
        RustyLH

        I agree Jay. But only when we are simply talking about physical attraction.

        I will often speak against Cougar type relationships, not because there is anything inherently wrong with them, but I am a man, I was a young man, and I have talked with many many many men young and old on this subject, so I feel confident in what I know about it, and that is that while a woman could be open to this kind of relationship, she should be highly highly suspect of the man’s long term intentions. It’s as simple as that. Of course I would give the same advice to a man if the woman is significantly younger. But, I do think that men and women are different on this. I think women can completely look past age better than men when they are the younger one. In fact, after talking to a lot of men and thinking about it myself, I think the difference is huge. I know a large number of men who aren’t the least bit interested if the woman is even 1 year older, and others wouldn’t consider a relationship with a woman more than a year or two older. I’m talking long term of course. Short term is a completely different matter. “She’s 9 years older? Short term? Sue, why not?”

        But this all ties into the whole minefield that exists between men and women. In a perfect world we would all find our perfect match and that person would love and adore us until the day we do die. But the reality is that some of us will find it and some of us will not.

        Ideally we would all start with simply looking for somebody that truly loves and adores us, then work out from there and simply choose the best one from those that do. However, if you understand game theory, that’s the last thing women are looking for. I watched a Dr. Phil episode where they sent a group of young men into a club and let them try to find a woman. The idea was to get a phone number so that they could begin a relationship. The guys were genuinely looking for a relationship. They weren’t trying to BS the girls. They were open and honest and used a bit of honest flattery. The girls completely rejected them.

        So then they got to spend some time with these “coaches” that taught “Game” There is a ton more to it than that, but they would wrap an insult…or sort of critique in a compliment…like if the girl has short hair, he might find a girl that has short hair and say, “She should let her hair grow out. Short hair tends to be a mistake on women….but you pull it off pretty good because you have the face to do it.” The compliment takes the sting out of the critique, but the critique is there and knocks her down off her high horse.

        It would be some much better if you see a woman who is attractive to you, and just go up to her and be honest. Just say, “I think you are very attractive and I would like to get to know you.” But that simply doesn’t work. Women will claim it does…but the reality is that it rarely does. When does it work? Only if you are that guy who walks into a party and all the women perk up and want to know who he is. It does not work for average guys.

  4. 4
    Zann

    Evan: I applaud your mature, diplomatic, and patient response to Poor Dale. I am withholding my own response to him because it would be judgmental, opinionated, and probably not very productive in the long run. Let’s just say that the breadth of my sympathy for Dale would fit in the space between these two letters — DF. Now never mind what sordid things you might think “DF” could stand for, but focus instead on that little tiny space there between the D and the F. And, Dale, if you’re reading this you might want to check that out, too — but first you’ll want to go get your reading glasses from wherever you left them last, and while you’re down there poking between the couch cushions, look for your brain, too. OOOHHH damn, now I’ve gone and done it. Sorry, Dale, it just slipped out. Forgive me, I’m one of those OLD broads who can’t keep her hormones in line. Run away!
    Dawn: Pulleeaasse don’t give yourself another second of anxiety over what you should adjust or refocus, because what you’re looking for is absolutely reasonable — as Evan stated so eloquently — you’re look for a peer! Most mature humans want to hook up with someone with whom there’s some degree of mutuality when it comes to their histories, cultural mores and values, impact of political events, without their partner continually asking them things like , “Who’s Abby Hoffman?” or “How can you listen to Motown — it’s so cheesy!” or “Are you telling me that you used to not shave your legs, your armpits, OR your crotch? Freaky!” Freaky indeed. Sure, we all need to broaden our scope from time to time, but you’re certainly entitled to desire a relationship with a guy from your own age group, your own generation’s “sphere of influence,” and who can more closely share the context from which you form your attitudes and perspectives on the past AND on things to come. It’s not that you’re over-focusing on yourself; you’re being absolutely reasonable. I don’t think men pay much attention to what age range woman say they want to draw from when searching for a man. Why? It beats me, but I can only guess it’s because they’re either too lazy to read beyond a woman’s photo, or they are so unwaveringly confident in their prowess and uniqueness that they’re sure if you met them, age spots or no, nose rings or no, you’d see what a fine, virile catch they are — at any age! Don’t change your comfort zone in order to play to those men who persist in seeking an ideal or a fantasy they’re convinced will make them feel good about themselves. But don’t give up, either. A dating hiatus is just what’s needed sometimes, because finding a mate is just damn hard for most of us….and time consuming and ego-battering and exhausting, whether you’re a cougar or a codger. Best of luck!

    1. 4.1
      Scotty

      Older birds are just too much headache. This one is a perfect example Of that and jealousy as well of younger ones.

  5. 5
    Shari

    Zann – I love what you said about men chasing a fantasy so they can feel good about themselves. I’m 44 and have dated men from 35 to 57 but prefer men in a 5 year range either way – younger or older, we just have more in common. But I’ve definitely run into the 50 something man looking for someone much younger and I’d not been able to word it as eloquently as you did. A fantasy to make themselves feel better about themselves….thanks, I’m going to borrow that one for use later (with full credit given of course). :)

  6. 6
    Sally

    Picture this: An older fella writes to me. I tell him he’s older than the age range I am looking for. SO…. he changes his age on his profile and then writes to me again. LIKE I’M NOT GOING TO NOTICE THAT HE IS SUDDENLY 15 YEARS YOUNGER! I have to give him kudos for trying. :)

  7. 7
    Camilla

    I’m 42 and just exited a marriage to a man 12 years older. When we met, at 36 & 48, it didn’t seem like a problem at all. But when I found myself entering the prime early-40’s, feeling like I’m at my best, my husband was in a totally different cycle. He wants to wind-down on doing fun things, and give his career a make-it-or-break-it push to the exclusion of anything else. Bored to tears, I finally left. I could have seen the age difference coming, but didn’t. Now I only want someone close to my age!

    Sally: I hear you about guys lying about their age. I’ve been trying to figure out why so many of they guys my age look SO MUCH older. My guy early-40’s guy friends don’t look old! Have these guys just aged badly? Then I realized that a lot of the guys on Match.com are probably lying about their age. LOL.. though I’m sure women do too. But it took me awhile to figure it out. Ha!

    1. 7.1
      RustyLH

      Camilla, age has nothing to do with it. There are many women just like your husband was…making a final push to win the rat race, while there are many men like myself, who are like you. I would find a woman who wants to concentrate on doing fun stuff to be a breath of fresh air. I would love it even more if she didn’t expect me to always be the one to do all the planning so that she can treat the relationship like a pleasure cruise with me as the activities director.

      Also, keep in mind Camilla, many men were with women like your husband. These women beat the life out of him. The good news is that just like women who had the life beat out of them, we aren’t inanimate objects. A person with a fresh outlook on life can actually reinvigorate another person. So I would say, even if the guy seems like he won’t be fun…see if you can get him to perk up. Not your ex…I mean new guys. You can also talk to them about this. See, you might meet a guy who is totally into you, and he may think that what you want is a man who is the CEO of a company, so he will try to show you that side…all work and no play. If you tell him that you are more interested in living life and having fun…and want a man that has the same outlook, he may very well breathe a sigh of relief and thank God for putting you in his path.

      I had an experience that was similar a while back. I was in Hawaii, while in the Navy. My credit card got stolen out of my locker and so when we pulled into Hawaii, I could not rent a car. The woman I was meeting there did not have one. That may sound odd but it was the case. Anyway, not having a rental car severely restricts what you can do, and when traveling around the island you will be stuck using the buses, which of course are much slower and far less convenient. So most of my planned activities were going by the wayside. It started to bother me and she detected that. She finally stopped when we were walking down the street and said in a soft voice, “We are in Hawaii. Can’t you just enjoy being here with me?” WOW! Talk about getting hit with a 2×4 in the head and gut at the same time. She was 100% right. I thought about it for a few seconds, nearly coming to tears after realizing what a jerk I was being. Then I hugged her and told her she was right. After that, we had a much better time. See, she relieved me of my burden. It wasn’t that I wasn’t enjoying being there with her, it was that I felt responsible for making it a memorable time, and so everything I wasn’t able to provide was eating away at me. I felt like I was failing. She let me know that just walking hand in hand along a beach in Hawaii was all it would take to accomplish that.

      As a result, I prefer women who can be totally honest…does not try to manipulate…and can say what needs saying without being nasty,

      See, while that woman was right, most of us men have been with a woman who would be just the opposite. She would be the task master, always pushing for something and always letting you know when you fall short…and many more are the same way, just very subtle about it. They aren’t domineering but they say cutting things, maybe without even thinking of the consequences. Here’s an example of how that can go. Imagine that woman was the opposite. So we are back home and one of her friends who had gone to Hawaii a few times in the past is visiting, and wants the run down on how the trip went. She asks, “Did you get to see ______.” So the girl says, “No, he didn’t have a credit card so there was a lot we didn’t get to see.” Yeah, that’s going to leave a mark on any man’s soul. Men don’t like to fail. That woman that flew to Hawaii to be with me handled that question so much better. When asked she simply said, “We chose not to make it a hectic ‘we’ve got to see everything’ trip and instead just relaxed and enjoyed the romantic nature of the island with each other. It made the trip so much more enjoyable.” So why am I not with this perfect woman? Because I was too young and stupid. Young men aren’t very good at relationships. We have to make mistakes and learn from them and hopefully get another chance with another perfect woman. Our whole life is like that. We are like Peyton Manning. Never winning the big one, but we keep trying and learning from our mistakes, and then hopefully get a chance later in life and get it right. That’s what happened to him. The Quarterback known as the guy who can’t win the big one, the guy who always chokes in the big games, finally won a Super Bowl.

  8. 8
    ABF

    Evan, you hit the nail on the head regarding the disconnect between women and older men on-line (and out in the real world as well). I would also add that many women, including myself, are troubled by the attentions of older men for a few other reasons:

    1. His ad notes that he is not seeking women his own age. This is a red flag to many women. For those truly open to a relationship – age shouldn’t be an issue. Does he want to meet someone he is compatible with? Or is he just looking for either arm candy? The fact that he won’t date a woman his own age tends to suggest the later.

    2. Also, when a woman sees that the guy is looking for much younger women to have his children, she tends to feel objectified. Again, those looking for marriage and family generally want the whole solid relationship. This includes being with a partner that loves and respects them for their individual traits. When he says he wants a wife to bear his children – a woman may feel as if she is only being valued for her womb. It is a pretty icky feeling to be on the receiving end of that type of attention.

    3. Finally, now that I am in my 30s and see that men my age tend to date women in their 20s I am developing more empathy for my older “sisters”. Thus, for me personally I would prefer to leave the older men for them to date. This is not to say that if I met a guy 20 years older who happens to blow me away – I would not date him. I only mean that I have no desire to seek it out and waste my time and his time when another woman may be more suitable in age and situation.

    Just my long winded $.02

  9. 9
    Sam

    Dale, Let us younger men have the younger women. You had your chance twenty years ago. Were you one of those guys who was afraid to settle down? If you were looking to settle down then, but didn’t meet the right woman, what makes you think you are going to meet the right woman now? At least when you were in your thirties the women you were dating were of your generation. Now you could be your gf’s father.

    Evan, I like your blog very much. You’re one insightful guy. However, I cannot help but noticing that when you write about Tom Pandolfo (5’3”) and now Dale you mention that they are successful. Are you tacitly conceding that a short, middle-income guy or old, middle income guy would have little/no chance at all in finding the woman of his dreams?

  10. 10
    jane

    Hello,

    Just a quick comment, this man does not say he wants a relationship he wants someone, “willing to have children by him”. Now really, this is 2007 not 1959. Further, “well to do”, and “fairly well educated” my, my, who isn’t these days? So I have to wonder, is this man er, short or bald (gasp! such politically incorrect questions)? Perhaps he is not as fit as he could be, perhaps he is emotionally unavailable etc.? Yup the issues that are considered – after all men do not want to date a woman who isn’t fit (that’s a big flag the woman doesn’t value herself).

    Now to paraphrase you Evan. In a previous article on why men want to date younger women when you cut to the crash your answer was, “BECAUSE THEY CAN”. Well as Dale is well-educated he should/would be able to work out that younger women don’t want to date men 20 years older than themselves BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE TO.

    Best
    Jane
    P.S. At 50 I have dated younger men. It’s fun and they are wonderful partners but, with rare exceptions, it isn’t a viable long-term partnership.

  11. 11
    Lisa

    I’d think too, that a guy who was specifically looking for a woman 10-20 years younger than himself was NOT looking for someone for compatibility–rather just someone to “show off” in hopes of raising his “stock” with HIS peers. I’d think that kind of guy to be shallow, off-putting, and likely not a very interesting individual in his own right.

    Add to that a 56 yr. old man looking for someone to have his children and on the surface it looks like he just wants a breed mare. If I were in the narrow age range he specified I’d be going “Eeeewww” reading such expectations.

    1. 11.1
      Lisa

      Do older men realize that there chances of having children in their late forties and fifties are not good? There has been a lot of research that shows men’s fertility drops in their 30s and is almost cut in half between 40 and 45.
      At 56, it could take years for him to get a woman pregnant. Even if he could find a younger woman, it won’t make his odds any better.

      1. 11.1.1
        Priya

        I guess I’d date a 50+ year old who had enough money that I’d be able to shag the cabana boy And not have to work. It would be really difficult to truly love or respect a guy trolling for a way younger woman though. 

  12. 12
    Lily

    Im a tall slim, attractive successful and well-educated 51-year woman with a great profile on the net. In my experience I have found the large majority of guys seem to be following this line of thought and over looking great women in pursuit of just that delusional dream. They seem to have over looked the enormous choices available to younger women these days. If money is your only draw card then remember that these intelligent well-educated successful women will probably be earning more that you do.
    With regard to children at a late age. I was a child born into just such a situation and my father was dead by the I was 32 even though he lived until 82. The last of his 5 children and 2 marriages he actually had a grandchild before I was even born. Think long and hard about what youre asking for. It has long lasting consequences.
    Lily

    1. 12.1
      Marcy

      I was reading this as I recently met through a friend a 55 year old and I am 43.  He is nervous about the age gap.. that aside I wanted to add to this that my father was 56 when I was born and 66 when my youngest brother was born.  For the children it sucks once they get older- as child it was fine as he was around a lot and still had energy.  I do not recommend having children at this age.  He lived to 92 but had alziehmers from age 80- so never understood when he became a grandfather, but my mother loved him to the end and he would never have had a family otherwise.  He was very fit until he was about 80 but the grief that followed was awful.  Men this age who want children need to think really hard about the impact on the children and their grandchildren.

      1. 12.1.1
        RustyLH

        I agree, but would also add that I think women in their 40’s should also rethink having kids. People need to stop putting this off. Think about this. If 42 when you have a child, you are 60 when the child graduates high school. Maybe as old as 65 when the child graduates college. If this child has a child around 5 or 6 years later, you are 70 years old or more. Frankly, I appreciate that my grandparents were young enough to be active and actually do fun things with me as I grew up. Ideally we have kids when we are in our early 20s so that by our early 40s, we now have “our time” to now live an independent life, and enjoy family.

  13. 13
    John

    Evan’s right as he is most of the time. One thing Evan said a while back that stuck with me was that the biggest mistake a lot people make online is that BOTH men & women think that they can do better than who they’ve been able to attract normally in the past and or in the real world. IE: Guys (and gals too) that are 3’s or 4’s on the rating scale initiating contact with the best looking 8’s & 9’s on the site. Then they complain when noone responds. Well duh !!! This is an extreme example of that. This guy Dale either is delusional or has very little online dating experience. His only realistic chance of succeeding is the niche golddigger site’s like Evan said.

    Remember online the average woman’s value is inflated and sometimes skyrockets. The average man’s value is deflated and usually plummets due to supply & demand.

  14. 14
    Miss Julie

    I have to say, Evan, that you hit the nail on the head here. As a 36 year old woman who has had her fair share of emails from 50+ men, I can tell you that you could have typed this blog entry right out of my own head. I am not interested in dating someone 15 or 20 years older than me anymore than I am interested in dating someone 15 years younger than me.

  15. 15
    Carol

    I am in a ballroom dance class where several “older” men have been hitting on a much younger Asian woman. She confided in me how uncomfortable it makes her and what a bad position it puts her in to evade giving out her number, etc. I thought men enjoyed being “appreciated”, well if they wanted to be appreciated they would find someone closer to their own age!

  16. 16
    Ruby

    I’m 49. Due to good genes and taking good care of myself, I’m usually mistaken for being anywhere from 7-12 years younger, but I’ve found that many men my age (who look much older than I do), assume that all women my age look “old”. In addition, one of the biggest problems with on-line dating is the consumer mentality it encourages; that is, anyone can order up the perfect partner, or more importantly, the one whom they THINK is the perfect partner, whether there’ s much basis for it in reality, or not. Thankfully, I met my wonderful boyfriend (age 47 and looks great) off-line!

  17. 17
    Jessica

    Miss Julie’s comment:(In 100% accord with…)

    I have to say, Evan, that you hit the nail on the head here. As a 36 year old woman who has had her fair share of emails from 50+ men, I can tell you that you could have typed this blog entry right out of my own head. I am not interested in dating someone 15 or 20 years older than me anymore than I am interested in dating someone 15 years younger than me.

    This is me as well and I SO appreciate you being frank with Dale Evan and trying to get him to see it from our shoes. Every time you get an email from someone who is way outside of your dating parameters, it takes away time from the men who might be good for you and you good for them. I’m talking decades out of your specified range, not a year or two.

    Your suggestion, Evan, for him to try the Reverse Match is excellent as it will show him younger women who want older men. Reverse Match is frequently a nightmare for women in their 20’s and 30’s because it so often turns up men who are 50, 60 and up. To each his own, but why do so many people insist on trying to make people fit what they want instead of seeing what is right there before them (provided you told the truth in your profile and clearly expressed your wants, needs, etc.).

    It kills me when someone says (and I exaggerate here : ) – )… I’m 92, but I look 76. Yeah, how someone looks is important, but it doesn’t change the fact that he might pass away a lot sooner (potentially) than the 76 year old or that he was alive when you weren’t by a good 20 or even 30 years. I still have people sometimes ask me if I am in college – and I am 36. This actually is difficult at times because makes me not feel my age. So being with someone who is a lot older also really makes me feel I look as if I am with my dad, as well as feel that way. I love my dad and hang out with him a lot, but I wouldn’t want to date him (metaphorically speaking).

    And many of these gentlemen have already had kids once. Some haven’t and if it is that important to them to do so before they exit this earth, I can’t fault that.

    But I truly don’t understand wanting second and third batches of kids when you are old enough to already be a grand parent from the get-go. It isn’t fair to the children or the woman who had them in her 20’s or 30’s with the older guy and then suddenly he is gone and she is raising them alone. Not knocking the women who chose this option, I just have never understood it or wanted that for myself.

    I said this in another post – I have friends in their early 20’s to a friend who is 102. I also tried to date younger – um, a lot younger to make sure I wasn’t being too biased. As in he was 21 and I was 34. He was really smart, mature for his age for the most part, in a band and way out of my comfort soon and normal dating age range. Yikes! He lived in a tent and rode a bike (bicycle, not Harley) and I soon found out his mother was only 3 years older than I and as it turns out, also named Jessica. Need I say more …?!?

    I went from sometimes not feeling old enough or mature enough or my true age to feeling like Mrs. Robinson.

    I still value the time I spent with him and there were some great things about it – also learned a lot about relationships and myself. One is that dating much younger than I – more than 3 or 4 years way doesn’t work for me at my current age. Might as I get older and he gets older too : )

    I also learned that you can keep an open mind and you most certainly should, but there is also nothing wrong with knowing your mind (and heart) and sticking to your guns and your intuition.

    What and how you feel, is what and how you feel. Just as is the case for Dale. Same for what you want and/or need. But you still have to take the other person’s preferences and stipulations into real account. IF by some chance you meet them and you both fall without age coming into play and it turns out the age difference is more than you are normally comfortable with, but you care about him and it works for you, then go for it. Otherwise, “the force is not with you…” Don’t try to force it.

    Please don’t put us in the position of having to either be rude and ignore you (guys like Dale) or to have to spend endless amts. of time explaining and/or justifying why we put the age range (in clear print) that we did on our profiles. You have better things to do than having to read those explanations, and we have better things to do than have to write them. Time spent doing so could be on finding someone who was a true fit.

    That said, I do wish Dale the best of luck in finding what he seeks.

  18. 18
    hunter

    to jessica,

    ….according to statistics, most of the best marriages, involved people, with a 15 year age difference…………

  19. 19
    verbosity

    Interesting thread. This general subject matter is treated in several other threads (Where are Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men). Dale’s hope is not the most reasonable, given the facts. Evan’s response is terrific.

    I think there is an undiscussed gray area here. I posted on this subject the the aforementioned thread in several posts, so I’ll combine and edit…

    “However, a vast majority (74%) of American women say they would marry for money. http://biz.yahoo.com/wallstreet/071214/sb119760031991928727_id.html?.v=1 To be fair, plenty of men polled said they would also, but significantly few #s than women. this is also borne out by most mens personal experience. Also, take a look on Match.com. It is shocking to see how many women only seek men who make who make 2x (or more) than what she makes.

    There are also other reasons women want men who make substantially more so that women have options (have kids, not have kids, stay home, pursue additional education, etc.) Many men feel women ignore this fundamental imbalance – that women, no matter what they earn, see having these options as their right (via men who earn more), but that men have no such option.it is simply their job to earn. I grant there are exceptions, but they are so few & far between so as not to be mentionable. The simple point is that we as men are just to earn so she has options.

    I actually had this conversation with my mother recently when she questioned why I do not want to marry. When I made my point about how I have no options but that women do (see above), she said Thats what youre supposed to do as a man. (Yes, even she knows the decks stacked in her favor.) I said, Mom, they banned indentured servitude 200-plus years ago. It seems a better option for me to keep my freedom and options. Her responseWell, I dont want to argue about this anymore.

    Lastly, one cannot discount the divorce rate and the effect of divorce laws. Women initiate divorces about 70% of the time (See AARP and Discovery Health). Further, depending on where you live, the divorce rate exceeds 50% in most highly populus places (esp. no-fault states). In AZ, it was 65% in 2005 (See cdc.gov). CA, the 800 pound gorilla in terms of population (and who do not report divorce stats to Census), is very high: Average Divorce Rate: 75.54%** (Reference: Court Statistics Reports for 1996-2004.)

    Im not going to comment on divorce laws and how they operate to divide property. That is a definite subject of another thread Evan may start one if he wished. Is does exist, though.

    What I try to show by the above points is the context within men are making their dating choices. Many women and men are told by major publications (NYT) that men are unnecessary. (Except to pay for the dating/mating) Women can and often do earn more than men (see above). JuJu herself mentioned that in seeking men who earn more (and are generous with it) women have more options than men. Depending on where you live, the divorce rate far exceeds 50%, with 70% of those divorces (and, by proxy, long term relationships) initiated by women.

    Is it any wonder that increasing numbers of men chafe at paying nearly everything in the dating/mating dance? From day 1, men have to pay to date. JuJu noted that women want men who will give them options regarding children (and my addition of other options). Men have no options there (generally). They must work for her options. Women seek men who make more money than they. Then, once married and legally entitled to 1/2 of his income and property, they initiate divorce 70% of the time. And then men pay in the end. (I grant there are exceptions, but they are so few in number, so as not to merit mention.)

    I bring this up to make the point that men have no qualms going for younger women, since all women, younger and older, look at him and his wallet. This is a generalization, but an accurate one based upon the evidence. Why do you think you do see many young women on the arm of men far older than they? If men are going to pay, pay for what you desire. (No moral judgments here – just a summarization of what occurs in the real world, like it or not).

    The point of all of this? In general, men like younger women. They are usually more fun, usually physically more attractive, less likely to have a ceaseless focus on men’s fallabilities. After the aforementioned divorce or ended long term relationship, most men I have talked to just want something simple (though not a brainless organ grinding chimp) and to have fun. They often see their 20s and 30s as a waste of their youth and fun time due to their previously mentioned divorce, LTR. Now in their 40s and up they prefer younger, simpler women.

    Also, this is very non-PC, but so what? Men can afford to go after younger women also. Not monetarily speaking (but oh boy does it factor in – see above), but in this way – Men, as we age, generally get more distinguished and attractive (presuming we dont go completely to pot) to a wider range of women older & younger. Our options increase to a wider range. Women simply do not. Their options therefore reduce as mens options increase. Yes I know what I just wrote is unpopular, but it occurs enough to merit mention.

    That said, women in their 20s likely do have more dating options than men in their 20s, generally speaking (particularly if they are good-looking). My belief is that women in general are more likely to choose men who make and/or have significantly more money. So women in their 20s have the option of men in their 20s, 30s 40s & up.

    I do not say this by way of complaint. It say it to present a ‘big picture’ view of these factors. Regarding the specifics, I do believe Dale’s desires are less than reasonable based upon the evidence presented. However, they are not without basis in reality.

    One mans perspective.

    1. 19.1
      Jenn

      I disagree with your point that men can “afford” to go after younger women because they somehow get better with age. I’m a 32 year old woman who has seen my fair share of emails from men too old for me. They do not, on average, become more attractive than men my age. All the women I know who are my age share this opinion. Most of the older men who have contacted me are gray and balding, paunchy and not at all attractive to me, a young, fit woman who is looking for a peer, a partner, as Evan stated. With few exceptions, I tend to think that men more than ten years older than me are skeevy, immature pervs just looking for a pretty young thing to soothe their wounded egos. Most of the older men who contact me are divorced and probably just looking to have fun. I’m interested in marriage and children and I will not let a man waste my valuable time just playing around. As far as women not getting better with age, um, have you seen actresses like Halle Berry, Sandra Bullock or Demi Moore? Women can, and do, age very well if they take care of themselves. That’s far more than I can say for the average older guy, who’s typically fat, balding and developing hair in places I’d rather not think about. I’m sorry if my views seem callous. Maybe they are, but it’s coming from the viewpoint of someone who is sick of being hit on by men who are way too old for me.

      1. 19.1.1
        RustyLH

        Jenn, I was with you up until the final few sentences. You name 3 Hollywood actresses who are very good looking for their age, abut are hardly the norm. Also, it should be noted that these women have had a fair amount of plastic surgery. You named 3. I can name more than that who are women near 50 or older that are beautiful, and in shape. But again, most have had plastic surgery, and hired personal trainers to keep them in shape, which is a must in their profession.

        At the same time, I can name as many men in Hollywood that are 50+, in great shape and good looking. I am sure that most of them have also had a nip or tuck, here or there. And they too often use personal trainers.

        In the real world, there are some women who keep in shape well into their 50s and beyond. They are rare. Same for men, but looking around, the men have the advantage here. Why? More of them have physical jobs that make them burn the calories.

        But here’s the thing…and it is my new philosophy on this. Weight is something that can be fixed, and often quite quickly. If you meet a man who is out of shape, but he seems to have a lot of great qualities, see if you can get him interested in doing active things with you…as a friend. You never know…he may just be a frog that turns into a Prince. And he is going to like the way he looks and feels, and he will realize that you are a big reason he feels that way.

        1. Maureen

          Hi I found these posts interesting, but have to agree that the average man on dating sites are very very unattractive. They have not taken care of themselves. Fat bellies, bad teeth, balding and manboobs do nothing for me. I am 64 attractive female who has young boys hitting on me but I am trying to find a partner that loves me and to love him back.  Women in their 60s are much more attractive than the men on dating sites. They can afford a younger model if they are extremely rich…i would rather stay single than go to bed with most men on dating sites. Ok, there are a few attractive men in their 60s who are sporty and kept in shape,but they are few and far between and they too can hit it on attractive younger women.  This is just my opinion. 

        2. RustyLH

          I think that is a matter of perspective, which influences opinion.  I look at the profiles of the men to check out the competition and from my perspective, I always come away with the attitude that there aren’t nearly enough good looking women on the sit for all the decent looking men.  Trust me, most of the women on dating sites are not very attractive to me.  The same complaints that many women have of the men on those sites, I have of the women on the sites I have been on.  I always see women on these sites talking as if all or even most women have maintained themselves well past 30, while most men have let themselves go.  I have news for you…the vast majority of women on dating sites are either not attractive, fat or both.  So it goes both ways.  The fact is, Americans in general have it too easy and are out of shape as a result.  Most make no effort to stay in shape.

      2. 19.1.2
        Priya

        Seriously! The men start looking kinda gross after they turn 33. They look so old. White guys anyway.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Now imagine you’re on a blog where the men say that women start looking kinda gross after 25. How does that feel? Exactly.

    2. 19.2
      Lisa

      Younger woman have way more options now in terms of education and job opportunities and who they marry. They overwhelmingly choose men close to their own age, as do most women.
      Odds of a man marrying a woman:
      The same age or older: 47%
      2-5 yrs younger: 34%
      5-9 yrs younger: 12%
      10+ yrs younger: 7%
                                                                    

      1. 19.2.1
        Lisa

        ^^The stats listed above are from 2006 census bureau data. 
        I have no idea why older men think that younger women are interested in them, when clearly the vast majority are not.

        1. Karmic Equation

          C’mon Lisa. You’re killing Rusty’s fantasies. lol
           
          All kidding aside. I think most women may (and want to) MARRY as indicated in your stats, but when they’re young and sowing their oats, older men with money are an option, depending on how good looking that older man is. Or how beautiful/desperate the woman is. A guy at my gym has a stripper gal-pal at least 10 yrs younger than he.
           
          But generally speaking, young women who are healthy emotionally  and financially don’t tend to go more than 5+ years up when looking for a “serious” relationship in which to settle down. My bfs when I was in my 20’s ranged from 3 to 6 years older. (I married the guy 6 years older).

        2. RustyLH

          About three-quarters (77 percent) had spouses whose ages were within 5 years of one another compared with two-thirds (68 percent) of opposite-sex cohabiters and 60 percent of same-sex couples. Same-sex couples were less similar in age: one-fifth of the couples (21 percent) had a partner who was at least 10 years older than the other, twice as high as opposite-sex married couples.
          Source: http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/p20-570.pdf   Pg. 20
           
          As you can see Lisa, 23 percent of marriages involve an age difference greater than 5 years.  10.5% involve an age difference greater than 10 years.  The majority of these with the man being the older partner.
           
          You and a few other ladies seem to think that telling men that younger women don’t want to date them will actually make men say, “WOW, really?  Well golly gee, I guess I better stop trying to date them.”  The truth is Lisa, you are wrong.  Men find no shortage of younger women willing to marry to marry them, and vastly more willing to date, or enter into short term relationships.  When our experiences don’t match what you are saying, you can be sure we won’t be paying attention to your “instructions.”
           
          @Karmic Equation – yours is anecdotal evidence.  While I will agree with you that it will be more likely that a much younger woman (same with much younger men) will not be financially well off, but there are plenty who are financially solvent that date much older men.  It’s simply a matter of incentive.  But since men have no problem being the provider, they have the advantage here.  Older women are much less willing to be the main bread winner, or take on a good person who has a significant amount of debt.  Often, the more mature a woman is mentally and emotionally, the more she will be open to dating an older man.  Also, the more independent she is, the less she feels the dependent on approval from family and friends, the more likely she will be open to dating older men.
           
          The vast majority of women I date and have married are all between 6 to 15 years younger.  Sorry, but I’m not the one who is dreaming.

      2. 19.2.2
        luisa777

        This debate is very interesting.  Yes, some people live in denial and think they still look good when the looks are gone.  Some people think 15 lbs overweight is staying in shape.  Two things are very clear.  Older men think the younger women should be interested in having families with them and it appears that most younger women have other plans.  So you take your risk with playing the odds.  I think younger women, unless very needy,  are too smart to play into the somewhat above average male’s needy ego game.  I find it unreasonable to doubt someone’s word.  I am 60 and look 45.  I am gluten free and exercise every day, have used the best of face treatments since 30 and have good genes.  Generalizations serve no purpose.  I am just happy I can support myself, so I don’t have to put up with the psyche of the older male.

  20. 20
    Jessica

    I am actually not arguing a man’s right to pursue younger women or saying that they shouldn’t. Just that it doesn’t work for me and as such, I would like for older gentlemen to respect my stated wishes and preferences and focus on those women who do want a more seasoned partner.

    As for the seeing a man as a wallet – I know there are a lot of women out there who do that, but I have NEVER done that – I take care of myself and I tend to look at income if mentioned in their profile in terms of is he divorced with an ex wife and kids to support as a consideration because it might mean that we wouldn’t be in very good financial shape AS A COUPLE if he has four kids. Not that he can’t keep me in style.

    I don’t respect women who expect men to buy them drinks in bars or to drop a lot of cash on them just because they are men and it is their “job” – whether it be a first date, the tenth, their wedding date or what have you.

    Relationships are about compromise and give and take and that applies to finances too. Unlike a lot of Evan’s bloggers, I am not a woman who makes a lot of money – though I still make more than many women in general – and many things are still a struggle for me as I attempt to get education/training/degree number 3.

    Even so, I still do not assume anything and if the man does pay, I never order anything expensive – doesn’t matter whether he makes a lot of money or not. Though I am even more careful if I know that he doesn’t or that much of it is already promised elsewhere. I too reciprocate by baking cookies, renting movies – whatever I can afford to do.

    IF someone invites me out and I am not clear that he is paying because he asked, then I will politely say that sounds like fun, but usually mention that I might want to do something that is relatively cost free as money is very tight and a concern right now. NOT fishing to make him pay. And I often try to pay my half of the check too.

    Though this actually has offended some men who then think I didn’t consider it a real date or that I must not like them enough to let them pay. I don’t necessarily disagree with Verbosity in what you stated. I know women who have dated and married men 10-15 years their Senior. Some are very happy and some find the age difference has become a marked problem. One of them is 15 years younger than her second husband and people frequently assume he is her father or the grandfather of her kids. They don’t like the same music and have pretty different views on a lot of things. If it works for someone, then more power to them! Though I am honest in saying I don’t understand having two and three sets of kids into retirement age with them being babies at the time.

    I feel like a kid when I date a man that much older. Maybe it is because I am changing careers again, still in an apartment, and look younger than I am – by a lot! I personally am uncomfortable enough with the age difference that I am not able to be myself. To my way of thinking – being terribly conscious of a big age gap and feeling weird and not being me would decrease the odds of a successful relationship and/or marriage despite the statistics Hunter mentions.

  21. 21
    verbosity

    Jessica,

    I happen to agree with you, and respect what you say on this matter. I simply seek to point out what I see as the context within which many men make act in the dating arena.

    i think your outlook is healthy. Too bad people of both sexes do not share it….

  22. 22
    LS

    Just to add another mix to this discussion. I would add just one question. Dose a young vibrant woman want to spend her youth (the best years of her life) looking after young children and one old man? Regardless of money power or position. Or is that older men are looking for someone to not only make them feel young again but look after them in their old age? What about the young women’s youth. Her time is now and she must spend it wisely, as she too will be old one day. What then? Will she be looking for a younger man to make her feel good? We have or have had our time and how spend it is our responsibility. Trying to snatch another persons youth in order to try and regain your own really works and it is each persons responsibility to deal wisely with their now. That’s all you have.

  23. 23
    J

    Any time you have statistics, you still have to remember that whatever percentage does or doesn’t serve to make, or back up, your point is still only a percentage of the men, women, or people actually polled. And then it is used as an average. So saying 74% of women polled said they would marry for money means that 74% of the women polled would do this. Not that 74% of all the women in the world would do so. It is a high number in that study. It could still be that it is that high at large, too. But I can unequivocally state honestly and with feeling, that I am not in that number – as in no one polled me on this subject either as part of this group or in a mass, world study somehow – or even a major nationwide study. And I don’t have any women I call friends or that I respect who would marry for money either. Of this, I am absolutely certain. I am not trying to prove someone wrong who says women are only seeing men as wallets, just trying to be seen as an individual as these men are wanting women to see them as, while rather emphatically asserting that women as a whole don’t and generalizing that women are gold diggers or opportunists. I’ve seen women like that and heard about them, and watched them take advantage of both men in bars, men they were dating, and women they were hanging out with, letting them pick up the tab, expecting to be ferried around, etc. But I don’t condone what they do and they are not my friends from the moment I see that they take advantage of others.

  24. 24
    verbosity

    I do not cite any stats as justification for men choosing girls their daughter’s age or anything like that. Rather, I do it in part to answer the question of why there seems to be a dearth of good, available men in the 40 & up range….I wouldn’t call it a cause-and-effect point (cause -women want $, effect – men choose younger girls). I think it’s more of a chicken-and-egg situation.

    1. 24.1
      Lisa

      The problem is that older men are divorcing in greater number and they are all going after the very small group of women interested in dating a man more than a few years older.
      Older men were raised on endless media stories about how 40+ women couldn’t find a partner because older men had a big dating pool to draw from and married significantly younger women. Most of these studies were based on census data from the 1980s. The landscape has changed dramatically since then.
      The odds of older men remarrying (45+) are about the same as a woman’s. Only 30% of these men ever remarry (don’t know stats on non-marrieds). Most divorces are initiated by women and the majority say they will never remarry while men are more open to it. Significantly younger women (more than 5yrs younger) are usually not interested and most women their own age are reluctant to remarry. I don’t think the odds are quite what older men expect.

  25. 25
    cp

    I dont want $$. I want a good looking, healthy guy. I dont want my father, or to be wanted because of my youth/looks. the whole thing just grosses me out.

  26. 26
    Mattie

    What an interesting and enlightening parcel of advice-and-posts: Dale should surely derive much benefit.

    I’d simply like to add my conjecture (aside from agreeing with J’s post on the credibility of statistics – 100% and with no margin of error): isn’t the problem itself due to the framework or structure in which it exists – ie Internet dating?

    A friend of mine characterised male contributors to one of the most popular sites in UK for professionals/educated/liberal types as “either married men, or younger men looking for older women.” And, yup, this turned out to be fair comment by and large. [He also offered some withering translations of commonly-used terms, e.g. 'very attractive' or 'curvaceous' = fat. I'd add: 'tactile' = groper; 'eccentric/amusing/unusual' = boring wanker ('jerkoff')!] And nobody reads the … FP(rofile)!

    When I tried this method, all the men I ‘met’ online were either liars or had stratospheric expectations and demands – or, horror of horrors, both! And I think both practices are encouraged by the nature of this form of meeting people, with its standalone structure and box-ticking format. If you were to meet a potential date at a dinner party, then you’d have some means of checking his or her ‘story’, wouldn’t you? Also, if you sit down and set out your demands in this detailed, almost-entirely materialistic and rather superficial fashion, then you’re hardly going to set the overall bar low, are you? In addition, it gives a lonely and frustrated man an entirely spurious sense of power – and we all know what power does, don’t we …? Not least, the Internet is a predominantly visual medium, meaning that people tend to approach it both rather passively – and hyper-critically (casting a cold eye on it – just think about how you are when watching, e.g. news on television).

    Internet dating’s very time-consuming, as well. Perhaps Dale might be better advised to invest in one of those private – duly registered and authorised – matchmakers.

    As for the dreaded financial considerations, well I’ve always paid my way to speak personally (even re-mortgaged my property to pay off my then-spouse’s debts. Bad move: marriage + property market duly went into freefall!). But the lack of protocols/rules/etiquette makes the whole dating thing very confusing for everyone. A Basque friend in his late 40s (from Spanish side of Euskadi) put it very well: “On the first date, I pay because I have invited her. After that, then we share – according, of course, to what we can afford.” I can’t see anything wrong in that reasoning.

    But what the hell do I know?! Good luck to Dale, anyway. I think Evan has hit nearly all the relevant nails neatly and concisely on the head in this case. And, yes, nearly all younger women are liable to be repelled by a much-older suitor who regards them as brood mares. And rightly so.

    Mattiex

  27. 27
    Hadley Paige

    to J: “Any time you have statistics, you still have to remember that whatever percentage does or doesn’t serve to make, or back up, your point is still only a percentage of the men, women, or people actually polled. And then it is used as an average. So saying 74% of women polled said they would marry for money means that 74% of the women polled would do this. Not that 74% of all the women in the world would do so.

    1026(or something very close to this number if my memory serves me correctly) — That, according to received wisdom in the world of statistics is the magic number. If you take in a truly representative cross section of persons in your survey (no small challenge), and they tell the truth, that is the minimum number of people you need to be statistically representative of the population (the population the statistician is attempting to describe) as a whole. Taking the same poll w a million people should produce the same result predictively. I don’t understand that mathematically (I’m no expert) or viscerally but apparently that is the case.

    Note: The fact that some posters to this column say that they and all their friends don’t match the statistics, whatever they may be, attempts to suggest of imply that the statistic stated is wrong. This is an incorrect inference.

  28. 28
    J

    Hey and thanks for the figures, Hadley. I wasn’t aware of the number that is needed to make something a correct statistic. Not being sarcastic, truly. Just never have been a numbers person. Probably why I became a writer. I am not meaning to say that the statistics are wrong. Or at least, I don’t think I was. I just think they are correct for the people who participated and don’t feel they truly represent all people everywhere BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT. I do sometimes feel like some of the posters state things in a manner which makes it sound as if what they are saying is true about all women – not just the ones they have come across or the ones that that 70% covers – as far as the percentage of women who see a man for his wallet. And yeah, that does kinda put my panties in a wad, or as Mattie might say – my knickers in a twist ; ) I guess I should say that I am not in that 70% who do. That would probably be a more accurate way of stating it. If there were a statistic out there that said 70% of all men are jerkoffs, and I were quoting it as fact because 70% of the men in a study of 1046 of them studied just happened to be such, I think a lot of men would probably object to that too. And feel it wasn’t representative of the population at large just because it was true of those polled. I will also cop to making a “C” in Statistics even with a tutor – despite making very good grades otherwise. So maybe I just don’t get statistics. I get discouraged when I find people making generalizations or stereotypes because it seems to hurt both the person who does that and the rest of us out there IF it makes it so we are all seen less as an individual and for who WE are – and given a fair shake/chance – and as more of a number and a “negative” one at that. Meaning of course, if the generalizations and stereotypes are not good or positive. Sorry I am not stating this very well – rough couple of weeks financial and stress-wise and not looking promising for the next couple months in terms of me being able to make my own situation better.

  29. 29
    Mattie

    Hello, more food for thought from everybody, which comes as no surprise on this site. Although I have to say that Evan and MrsVee are top of my personal polls.

    Just a quick word to J – I’m a writer (hack/journo), too. I’m also struggling – and, irony of ironies, am a financial specialist! Nonetheless, my knickers remain resolutely un-knotted … there is only so much discomfort I am prepared to tolerate, after all, and I believe firmly in showing my undergarments who is boss at all times.

    Seriously though, I sympathise fully with your predicament, hope it’s strictly temporary and will improve very soon.

    Best wishes and good luck,

    Mattiex

  30. 30
    hunter

    ….common practice all over europe,… the younger man with a mature woman. Women don’t have to be the “good” girl, ’till the right man comes along……just do whatever you want to do gracefully…..’cause men are watching…

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