What It’s Like to Be a Woman In Online Dating

It’s an age old story.

Man goes on dating site.

Man assumes women have it easy because they get a ton of attention.

Man poses as woman on dating site to prove his point.

Man barely lasts two hours as a woman because the responses from his fellow men are so toxic.

Men scramble to approach women like rats chewing on a meaty chicken bone, and then wonder why women are so turned off by them.

Yeah, that’s about right.

Says the clueless man in question, “At first I thought it was fun, I thought it was weird but maybe I would mess with them or something and freak them out and tell them I was a guy or something, but as more and more messages came (either replies or new ones I had about 10 different guys message me within 2 hours) the nature of them continued to get more and more irritating. Guys were full-on spamming my inbox with multiple messages before I could reply to even one asking why I wasn’t responding and what was wrong. Guys would become hostile when I told them I wasn’t interested in NSA sex, or guys that had started normal and nice quickly turned the conversation into something explicitly sexual in nature. Seemingly nice dudes in quite esteemed careers asking to hook up in 24 hours and sending them naked pics of myself despite multiple times telling them that I didn’t want to.”

As a male coach for smart, strong, successful women, I apologize on behalf of all men. They’re generally not evil people. But they really don’t get what it’s like to walk a mile in your shoes. I wrote about this in Finding the One Online extensively – what it’s like to be a woman dating online and how men need to up their games to connect. Hell, I just gave a TEDx talk about this very thing. Men scramble to approach women like rats chewing on a meaty chicken bone, and then wonder why women are so turned off by them. Says the original author:

“I would be lying if I said it didn’t get to me. I thought it would be some fun thing, something where I would do it and worse case scenario say “lol I was a guy I trolled you lulz”, etc. but within a 2 hour span it got me really down and I was feeling really uncomfortable with everything. I figured I would get some weird messages here and there, but what I got was an onslaught of people who were, within minutes of saying hello, saying things that made me as a dude who spends most of his time on 4chan uneasy. I ended up deleting my profile at the end of 2 hours and kind of went about the rest of my night with a very bad taste in my mouth.”

I apologize on behalf of all men. They’re generally not evil people. But they really don’t get what it’s like to walk a mile in your shoes.

Well, duh. Welcome to Understanding the Opposite Sex 101, dude. It should be a required experience for men – just as approaching men and getting rejected dozens of times should be a required experience for women.

Ladies, have you ever had a similar experience to this woman? Guys, were you aware of how bad women have it?

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Tatiayna

    Online dating is seriously detrimental to your emotional health. The fact that men don’t read profiles and send emails to women they have zero in common with, in any way. Is the number 1 reason , online dating is such a failure..

    1. 31.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      If online dating is such a failure, how come 20-30% of all marriages are now beginning online?

      1. 31.1.1
        wade

        Next time you drive by a university, go park in the visitor parking area, and take a stroll into one of the classroom hall ways. Everybody has their face glued to a smart phone, and is not talking to the person beside them. They very nearly ignore the person beside them even if they are talking.

        That many marriages are starting online, because people are living in a fantasy world.

        This computer is a fantasy world that is unhealthy to me, as it replaces normal activity. 

        Divorce rates are about the same as ever, so OLD isn’t “helping” anything.

        If you can’t respond to someone’s best, which is what they are putting in their profile, then you aren’t going to respond to them in real life, where all their flaws are known.

        they say they want honesty. They do not.

        They want a fantasy that no guy can live up to. They want a guy to somehow have the “virtues” of a 33 years old virgin, but the experiences of a 33 years old player, but they’ll date neither individually…at least not until they get very desperate, or until your income eclipses about the 75k to 100k mark. Then they’ll date you even if they are otherwise not interested in you at all. Girl in Texas on a certain site told me she’d date me…if I made more money. She already made more than the national household average, and she’s complaining about money.

        It’s fake.

        Sex would be nice and everything, I’m sure, but a relationship with that person would suck. I say that as a person who wants marriage and a child or two. It would suck to be in a relationship with most of the women on online dating sites.

        They are:

        Uneducated, even the ones with degrees are generally less educated than me, and I don’t have a degree. I’m going back to college now; anxiety doesn’t help a 17 year old pass an Engineering program at a major university, so 16 years later, literally another life time, I’m back trying it again, and I’m literally no different now than then, except I’m on anxiety and depression medications. Haven’t had a date in my life. I guess the only good thing in all this is I’m passing my classes, but if I don’t write that damned English paper by the morning I’m going to lose 5% of my grade. No big deal, this post is bigger than that paper has to be, so it’s not like it’s hard or anything.

        Several years ago this woman, “Vicky” (real name btw) told me to stop making generalizations. I tried to take her advice, but try as I might, I found out the generalizations were generally right. The more I tried not to generalize about women, the more I realized they were almost always right anyway.

        Back then, it was one of these 20-something on 20-something discussions and her position was basically, “i wouldn’t date you but somebody might” kind of thing. 

        Any negative condition you might find yourself in is like that. Nobody “gets it” and they really can’t help you, unless they’ve actually been there themself.

        What does a person who’s been married for their entire life know about advising a person who’s the same age and never had a date?

        Nothing, that’s what. They married their high school sweetheart, because for whatever reason they developed a relationship with a person very early on in life, and they’ve no Idea on earth what it’s like to be someone like me. Yet they think they have some insight, and ironically they’ve only ever dated one person, and it worked out on the first try. They really don’t even know anything themselves, because the person they are with liked them from the start on the first try. I saw those relationships. I can go to my facebook page and pull up about 50 “friends” who are like that. It’s as if it just fell in their lap.

        Not exactly, but you get the point. I know a guy my age who’s been married since he was 19, and has been pastoring a church, and it’s like “really?” Does this guy know anything at all abotu being a single adult?

        Answer? No. he’s been married since he graduated high school, but he’s “pastoring” people who have life experiences that he is completely ignorant of.

        And on the other hand, you have the catholic church, where priests are sworn to celibacy (please God no) and they are advising married couples. What the hell is this?

        this is the insane world I live in, and I wonder why nothing works.

        If there’s a woman on here who actually understands what I’m talking about, and doesn’t think I’m a complete jerk at this point, hey, I’d like to chat, because maybe you see what I see.

        That whole “Pastoral counsel” situation is not amusing to me. It’s insane and it’s out of order.

        As a Christian I’m supposed to marry a Christian, but I don’t want a Christian, because Christians don’t know what love is. They only have fantasies and religion.

        I figured if I gave some of those “less desirables” a chance, and I really loved her, if she’d respond anyway, hey, that’s better than the fake BS mainstream Christianity does with relationships.

        I used to be “marriage before sex” belief.

        I don’t believe that any more. It’s stupid. It hurt me by making me less and less what women want anyway.

        You don’t want that.

        I thought I was supposed to be that, because that’s what Christianity is all about in terms of natural, earthly living, but it’s not at all what’s practical or realistic, and it’s hurtful.

        I had an older cousin who joked at me one time, long time ago, something like, “you wouldn’t buy a car without a test drive…” In response to sex and marriage.

        I looked down on that remark for a long time, but he was right.

        It might be against what the church teaches, and it might even be against what the Bible itself says, but he was right. It’s actually more loving too, when you think about it.

        “True love waits” thing, I mentioned.

        I believed that. I lived that. I lived it more closely and correctly than the people preaching it.

        It was  a false doctrine, which destroyed my life.

        Is that what women want to hear?

        When you “good” christian, try to justify your desires and such, you claim you want(ed) that, but you don’t want the person it produced. 

        Hey, I’m not the hypocrite, because I actually did want what it was supposed to produce in a woman, or so I thought.

        But it’s a lie. You believe it because it sounds so good, but then half a life time later when you realize it hasn’t lead to anything except lonliness (a trait women also don’t want)  then you realize you’re screwed, and not in a good way.

        You don’t want loneliness.

        Hey 33 yr old virgin can’t help but be lonely.

        All my guy friends are either married, dead, or moved to another state, so I rarely, if ever, get to be around anyone.

        You don’t want “neediness”, but what the hell does that mean anyway? I don’t even know exactly what you mean by that in the context of dating, because I can’t help but want sex, even though I never get it, but you put me in an impossible situation where no matter what I try I cannot be what you claim you want. If you were stranded in the middle of nowhere long enough, you’d start to need things too, and what? If I walk by and you ask for help, should I say, “wow. You needy thing, I don’t want anything to do with you.”

        Great. who’s wronging who here?

        You don’t want “clingy”.

        I don’t even know what you mean by that. Never had a real date, so what the hell do I know about whatever boundaries you consider “clingy”? Nothing. I wouldn’t know if I was breaking your boundary or not, because I’ve never been there with anyone, much less you, but you’ll hold it against me either way.

        Guess what? Television romances are fake. The irony is women watch shows like soap operas and formerly Sex and the City, and the primary content of the show is everything the same women claim they don’t want to deal with, one player cheating with another’s wife, or ex, or whoever, Thsi one has amnesia and can’t remember who she was screwing last week, and that one has secretly the other guys baby…but they continually fill their head with it every day…

        …but it’s the guy’s fault, right?

         
        If I can find a woman who’ll admit how absolutely screwed up and hypocritical those standards are, then I’ll have some sort of common ground. 

    2. 31.2
      Wade

      I read every profile, the ones that actually contain anything.

      Most of them do not contain anything except a canned soup statement.

      I try to only write to women I have at least a few things in common with, but quite honestly there are very, very, very few women who have anything in common with me.

      the number 1 reason, in my experience, that online dating is such a failure is:

      I spend 30 minutes to an hour preparing my first post to a woman, and she doesn’t give a damn and doesn’t respond.

      You’re clueless girl.

      Seriously, you think GUYS are at fault for this?

      In my case, having certain types of things in common with a woman is simply not possible, because I have been single my entire life and don’t have those experiences.

      If I put that I’m a 33 year old virgin in my profile, and I know, most of you have no interest in that.

      If I do not put that, you’re going to find out anyway, because hey, let’s face it, I’ve never done anything. Then I’ll be accused of “lying” or something similar, when it becomes obvious.

      So I lose either way.

      But you just go right ahead blaming guys for “not reading” profiles.

      You know what, I doubt the avg 4 paragraph first message I send to women ever gets read. They probably just trash it, along with the crap from the jerks you’re talking about.

      Thanks for the waste of time, little girl.

       

      1. 31.2.1
        EmeraldDust

        Wade said ”
        If I put that I’m a 33 year old virgin in my profile, and I know, most of you have no interest in that.
        If I do not put that, you’re going to find out anyway, because hey, let’s face it, I’ve never done anything. Then I’ll be accused of “lying” or something similar, when it becomes obvious.



        Wade, no one expects you to put “virgin” in your profile, any more than someone would be expected to put their “number” in their profile.  (“number” meaning number of initimate partners)  No one will accuse of “lying” for not putting your sexual history in your profile.
         
        I used to respond to everyone who wrote to me, even if it was just to say, “Thanks for reaching out, but I don’t think we are a match”.  If there was a non-offensive reason such as too far away, too young, or a smoker, I would say so, but I was getting arguments. So now, I just generally don’t answer the ones I’m not interested in.  I also have some men write to me every few hours while I am at work or asleep, and start to demand a reason why I haven’t written to them.  Sometimes it takes me a couple of days to a week to respond to the ones I WANT to respond to due to work, other commitments, and yes, I am usually writing to a few at a time.  
        I know it must be hard for men, who have to do most of the initiating online, to get no response, but if I were to compare the number of views my profile gets compared to the number of e-mails I get, the ratio is pretty dismal.
        Men and women both get rejected.  The form the rejection takes might differ due to the general roles of men as pursuers and women as the responders.  Men get rejected when someone doesn’t respond to their pursuit.  Women get rejected when a man she sent “you may approach me” signals to, doesn’t respond. 

        1. Wade

          Emerald Dust:

          I used to attend church very regularly, and mostly the only thing it did was produce an unhealthy attitude which isolated me more from normal people.

          Around 10 years ago, I was a member of a 1500member congregation, and not one woman in the entire place ever initiated conversation with me, because “regularly church attending” Christian women are definitely even worse about this sort of thing than average women. They absolutely demand that the guy do everything, and they absolutely demand that the guy Work all day long while she keeps house, because for some ungodly reason, that’s what “Pastors” teach young women they’re supposed to do, but any guy who’s read Proverbs would know that’s about the exact opposite of what it says for a “prudent woman”.

          At this time, I was not yet diagnosed with the social anxiety, though I had it my entire life. I tried and tried to meet people and make friends, and never got beyond this circle of 4, and the 2 girls in that circle got married to the 2 guys, and I was left alone, and then one day these idiots attacked me over something irrelevant involving my father’s death, and I left the church. I visited a few times after that, and said good riddance afterwards.

          I stood in the first couple’s wedding for God’s sake, and I had been permanently “friend zoned” by the other girl, who I was really interested in.

          Basically, the entire experience was a gigantic waste of a couple years of my life, as there came a point where the only reason I was attending any more as for them, and then when that argument happened, I was out.

          They had the audacity to claim that my dad died early because there was some kind fo “sin” in his life.

          Seriously. Christians.

          One of my uncles was like, “whoever said that doesn’t know anything about Christianity”.

          There were four little wolves that I spent my time trying to be good to, because they seemed on the surface to be so nice and “perfect”.

          Evil.

          Very Evil “Christians”.

          Gotta love ‘em though, they’re “preaching everybody else into heaven,” and they’re on their way to hell.

          But I have it right, friend.

          Jesus said the Harlots and publicans enter into the Kingdom of Heaven before you. The Christians well know that verse, and yet they are worse for the wear.

          If you want to see a devil, go to church and talk to the pastor. “The Gospel can only go as far as a dollar bill can carry it,” he says. – I’ll leave that one anonymous. 

          Mission accomplished.

          Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, found out Church is about the worst place on Earth for two “Christians” to meet.

          I was there 5 days per week. I volunteered. I was, at one time, close to some pretty important people, and I confess that half the reason I was there was just as an excuse to be around this one girl. She was clueless though, and I was suffering from that anxiety problem and could never get over that approach anxiety thing to talk to her the way I’d like to, so it stayed “friend/acquaintance” zone for 2 years.

          In hind-sight, it’s a good thing I guess. I mean, given what happened in the end.

          Oh yeah, on the PUA thing, I’ve already tried that. I actually bought two different guy’s systems, trying to get help any way I could. It doesn’t help me because first of all, about half of it is actually illegal for one reason or another in the U.S. If a guy does that to a woman and she likes it, great. If he does it and she doesn’t like it, he gets a sexual harassment charge against him, or groping or inappropriate touching.

          Secondly I’m not good enough at conversation in person to even attempt to do the things he’s talking about. He makes it sound easy to go to the book store or coffee shop and get 10 women’s numbers in a day, and invite them to a club or whatever, and I’ve never gotten 5 women’s numbers in my life 

          I can’t help but laugh at myself.

          He’s doing this to manipulate people’s perceptions. He doesn’t care two whits about most of the girls he’s talking to. You know this and I know this, and the women on this blog would be disgusted if they saw how this works. He’s just getting a bunch of women in the club so he can suck up to the owner, then use his influence with the owner to suck up to someone else (a rich mark) which he uses the other guys money to attract one other girl he’s actually interested in so he can go sleep with her one time.

          That’s like everything that disgusts me…

          The other guy claims to be teaching a method of identifying what type a woman is in certain categories, which he’s using to try to predict certain things she’s likely to want/like or dislike, and so forth. Additonally physical escalation, which is very subtle manipulation of women’s physical, pscyhological barriers to touch, and if you read what he is describing, he is practically in the act fo raping a woman before she even knows it, assuming it works, she doesn’t even realize she’s having sex until she’s already having sex. Consent is never an issue, as she’s effectively being manipulated and hypnotized without conscious knowledge.

          Basically, it’s rape, and if the woman filed charges, she could potentially win.

          It’s basically a form of hypnosis or manipulation, which is exactly wht I don’t want to be. I quit reading his guide because of it. I can’t stand manipulating people like that.

          Take your typical “Christian” woman, and I mean a real believer. He would classify her “212” in his system (I’m not breaking his rules or revealing anything). His advice and dating strategy is literally to try to sleep with her as early as possible, preferably first date, because he knows that a Christian woman, is trying to live up to certain standards.

          His strategy then is to “break her”, so she is stuck with him psychologically, and he uses a subtle mind trick to do this to her over a period of 30 minutes to an hour, which I’ve seen the physical parts of what he was talking about, but I didn’t yet pay for the rest of it. Then he’s like, “She’ll be a great girlfriend if you can get this to work.” Oh really. Let’s just do exactly what she’s taught not to do with herself. Make a complete freaking mockery of everything we both believe in along the way too.

          Hey, maybe that’s what everyone else does anyway, and I’m just the idiot in the dark. Right?

          I didn’t get to some other parts yet, because he charges quite a lot of money for this, even if you do his cheap versions. He claims there are “code words” you can drop into a conversation which will instantly make a woman want to have sex with you, even if she doesn’t like you.

          Maybe I should get that part. If it works, no harm done I guess, because I don’t intend to use that to hurt anybody, but there is harm done, because I don’t want manipulation.

          I wanted “love”, but I’m learning that “love” is a lie. “Love” doesn’t work on dating sites, and it doesn’t work in real life. Maybe the guy is right. I don’t know. I don’t know what to think about the fact that he presents evidence and 800 interviews with women of all types who when put to the question admit they actually want what he’s doing, even if they wouldn’t admit it otherwise.

          but you can actually go to PRISON for doing some of this stuff, even with good intentions.

          But he proved they want it that way.

          Go figure.

          So the PUA advice is exactly what every Christian woman, or pretty much every woman, says they do not want, but he claims it works and it’s exactly what they want, and he gets it to work all the time, and so many of his group makes it work, and he had 800 individual documented interviews with women to prove it.

          If he’s telling the truth, then the lot of you on this thread are complete liars, and dating site women are all frauds, and the whole lot of everything I’ve ever thought I was doing to help myself was a waste.

          Look, that’s talking like step 20 anyway, and I can’t even get to step 2.

          My God, I don’t even know why I’m writing this any more. Every once in a while I end up on a blog complaining about how screwed up dating sites are, and also asking for a little, or a lot, of help in fixing myself.

          It’s not like there’s “fix a 33 year old virgin” classes at the local college or gym,you know.

          I don’t know what else to say.

          There’s several women I’ve written that God is my witness I’d die for. They seemed on their profile to be exactly what I needed, and they don’t know I exist. I’ve tried talking to every type of girl from “she’s really not what I’m interested in, but I’ll write her anyway,” to mildly attractive and seems to have interesting hobbies and such, to you know there’s the “one” that when you open the first page of a new search immediately catches your eye, and you know she’s not going to respond, but you write her anyway, because she’s the one you’re really interested in.

          Tried all that, and everything between.

          It’s disgusting to think that in a few cases I’ve actually had men, and even WOMEN, tell me I should lie in my profile.

          The younger woman tells me to “go older”.

          The older woman doesn’t want a 33 years old virgin.

          I do actually want a child or two some day, and “older” at this point is already getting out of the fertility range in some cases.

          My psychologist tells me I’m “normal”. That’ it is “normal” for people to have a hard time conversing.

          I call BS, because I’m currently attending a university. I see thousands of people around me talk to one another effortlessly. They laugh, they joke, they flirt with the girl, whatever. Me? I can be in an entire room and it’s like climbing up a muddy, steep bank of a river, with no hand-hold, to even get “Hello” to come out of my mouth, much less anything else.

          I told him that, I’ve told other people that, and it doesn’t get through their head that what I experience is far beyond normal “approach anxiety”.

          Church?

          I had a heart attack the first time I tried to introduce myself to a certain girl there. I mean heart attack, as in chest pain that stopped me dead in my tracks and brought tears, and scared the living hell out of me ten times worse than the original anxiety.

          As a Christian, for a while, I thought it was something “spiritual” that you could pray about or believe away.

          I used to go to the idiot pastor for help a time or two with this problem, and all they could say was pray harder, or some stupidity.

          Finally, a couple years ago, after a family member committed suicide, my sister was worried about me, so she insisted I go to a psychologist/psychiatrist, and that’s when they said I have severe generalized anxiety, severe social anxiety, primary depression.

          Going back to how bad the anxiety really is, I told my psychologist this stuff, and they don’t get it. I’m not exaggerating. He’s a good counselor and whatever, he’s simply never encountered someone with as big of a problem as I have, and it’s obvious to me, because his responses, his reactions to my descriptions of how hard this is, make it evident that he’s never dealt with anyone this closed off.

          Now of course, it’s a vicious cycle, and I know it, because it’s not just about me, it’s about the women too.

          They really don’t want a 33 yrs old virgin. Even if I could get over the anxiety and such, which I’m on a cocktail of meds for, they reject me anyway.

          I’ve tried talking to the girls at college, which I’m back attending at this age, and I’m surround by 19 to 25 yrs old girls, and they aren’t interested in a 33yrs old either, besides, I still have the same problem trying to talk to a 19 to 25 years old girl now as I did when I was 19 to 25 years old. Nothing’s changed, except now I’m less desirable than before, because I’m expected to be 10 years more successful or experienced in dating, and I’m not.

          I’ve watched my life just disappear like a piece of burning garbage, and I can’t even get a break from somebody on a dating site, where I thought it would be easier to introduce myself, and maybe some nice woman would like to meet, and the anxiety problem wouldn’t happen….

          And not one person has ever given me a chance.

          So what is supposed to be some form of help in finding someone or communicating is nothing more than another bondage to me.

        2. Wade

          The topic comes up, and it’s the truth. I don’t put it in every profile, but I have put it in there at times just to see how people responded, but the the difference between no responses and no responses is um….nothing.

          Look, here’s some other stuff about me.

          I don’t worship my car or 4-wheeler like other guys.
          I don’t watch NASCAR or rodeo. I think they are wasteful and stupid, and I don’t consider NASCAR a sport at all.

          I don’t go mud riding (I own a car) and I wouldn’t go mud riding if I had a truck.

          I don’t go to bars or clubs, because the places are horribly noisy. It’s bad enough to have anxiety, but worse when you try to talk to somebody and the damn music is so loud you can’t even hear their response, and I don’t like the types of music they play anyway. So it’s misery to me.

          I drank my first beer about 6 months ago, and realized I wasn’t missing anything, and can’t imagine why anyone would actually want to drink that. I don’t mean like the stupid movie “guy gags on his first drink” thing (It’s not like that). I mean it tastes like garbage. I can taste every element, wood, plastic, metal, rotten grain, everything, and it’s repulsive.

          Pathophysiology and anatomy course? Hmmm I got a higher score on both the male and the female anatomy than the women in my class, and they have kids, and I’m the single, never dated guy. Broke the curve I guess, so they threw my grade out. Books =/= life.

          Oh yeah, I don’t know what a “You may approach me” signal would be IRL. The few times I thought I was getting that, and tried to act on it somehow, I was clearly wrong. Never dated honey. I don’t know what you expect from me in terms of signals or body language or anything liek that. I just do not get that, unless it’s something just completely obvious like turning away or something, or verbal.

          If women’s views and expectations on dating behavior, or body language, etc, were in a large collection of books, and yours is a particular volume, let’s say it has your screen name, “Emerald Dust”. I never get to “read” any of hte books anyway, so I don’t know the language you speak beyond baby level literally, because I’ve never had the opportunity (at least since my deliverance from the stupidity of the first 2/3rds of my life).

          Now you expect me to know what your body language means:  Yes, you can come talk to me, no get the hell away, gee I’d like you to come closer, whatever it may be. I don’t get it usually. I’m quite often drawing the opposite conclusion of what you want. I don’t see those nuances, and I don’t have “girl friends” to help me understand how to get a “girlfriend” either.

          My inner thoughts are often clouded by alternative physics models, contemplation on how to explain mechanisms of the origin of the universe, memorizing Pi to 20 decimal places, nanotechnology and medicine, copper films on all  surfaces kill MRSA and VRSA for pennies on the dollar compared to antibiotics, but hospitals don’t use it because they actually want old people to die and get off medical programs, installing X number of money worth of solar power plants can pay off the Federal Debt in Y years and multiply the value of assets ten fold in the process, two orbiting objects have a larger sphere of gravitational influence than the same mass would have were it concentrated in one object at their barycenter, in a particular Real Time Strategy game, a certain race is over powered because they get ahead by 2 workers and a 100 resources within the first 3 minutes, and their economy is always stronger thereafter; Free will favors evil because “good” can only react. Preemption can’t stop evil because evil adapts faster. Murders can’t be prevented within the framework of our legal system, and they can’t be undone, they can only clean up the mess, The good guys always lose, regardless of what the score card says. Cain murdered Abel, and God didn’t lift a finger to help, he just watched it happen. A modern, “sinful” police officer would have stopped it had he been on the scene, Most random drunks would have tried to stop it had they been on the scene, but the “righteous, loving God” did absolutely nothing, and I don’t have an objective argument for how that can possibly be morally acceptable that an omnipotent being alleges to be “Love”, but stands by and watches a pointless murder and does nothing to help. So God did not protect Abel’s “good” free will, but he did protect Cain’s “evil” free will. And the same pattern has been repeated in the real world, over and over, whether or not the bible story is based on a true story.

          Understand?

          The lesson is, if you were doing something wrong, God would not step in and help, whether or not you wanted correction. If you were making a life decision that would hurt you or your children, whether or not you know it, or if you were accidentally hurting yourself or someone else, whether or not you know it, God doesn’t step in and correct you, even if it accidentally wrecks someone, even if someone ends up getting killed over it.

          There is no freedom in that. There is only evil.

          All of that and much more are things I think about all the time. Pretty well go in cycles on the moral and cosmological arguments.

          Dating is a matter of free will Hawking says, “is everything determined? yes, but it may as well not be, because you can’t tell the difference.” For example, you look both ways before crossing the street, even though you are either going to get hit, or not. If you don’t look both ways and you get hit, it’s your fault. on the other hand, if you look both ways and nothing’s coming, then looking was a waste of time, but it can’t be helped anyway.

          So anyway, if dating is a matter of free will, then since free will favors evil, which we can prove quite easily that it does, then it is impossible to love someone without inherently doing evil, ether directly or indirectly.

          Example:

          When  you love one person, you remove yourself from other people to spend time with them. Those other people “need” someone, and maybe they needed something you had to give and didn’t realize it, and now you didn’t “do” anything “wrong”, but you weren’t there to do something “right” that was needed either.  That person suffers for x number of years because they didn’t hear something they needed to hear at the right time to be encouraged, or make the right decision, or date the right person, or whatever.

          Somewhere in there are thoughts of that girl I like, or used to like, but never am where I’d like to be to date, or the one online who I’d like to talk to but won’t respond. Somewhere in there is a hope and a prayer of something resembling normalcy.

          When I lay down at night, all I feel is alone, and because I have nobody except myself and God, that’s all there is. If you don’t feel the lack of a mate any other time, I can guarantee you feel it when you lay down alone every night. So used to being alone that you don’t even really comprehend what it is not to be alone, even though you hope for it.

          I direct my thoughts to contemplative prayer, or just prayer in general, about being healed from the misery and loneliness, and someday being in some sort of loving relationship with a woman. I don’t know what that will look like, because I’m so far from “normal” that expecting a “normal” relationship is unreasonable at best.

          the woman in the photo is real, but the profile is a character someone made up. It may have been made by the woman in the photo, or by someone else, but it isn’t real.

  2. 32
    Tatiayna

    I would suspect 20% is closer to the truth, than 30%.  And I wouldn’t call that online dating site, success, per se. As meeting online is an inevitable part of life.  Through countless venues, other than online dating sites.. Which no doubt factor into those statistics..
    Online dating would far more of a success. If men emailed women they actually had some common ground with.. Unfortunately, most don’t.
     
     

    1. 32.1
      Wade Smith

      It’d also be a lot more success if women actually put what they really want in their profile, instead of lying and playing games with people’s heads, which they accuse guys of doing.

      Hey, guess what? I don’t know what you like, unless you say so.

      About half the women online get offended if you compliment them, and the other half get offended if you don’t.

      That’s not “women”. That’s a baby, especially if she doesn’t have the decency to write that sort of thing in her profile.

      Yet they’re like that about EVERYTHING.

      I’m trying to talk to some woman online, and there may be several things I really just don’t like about her, but I’m like, “Okay, it’s cool with me, but It’s probably not cool with her, but I can certainly try to at least converse with somebody.”

      You know, “little” stuff like smoking, or weird tatoos, or she wrote that she likes to get wasted sometimes, and I’m like, “I sort of don’t like any of that stuff, but I actually did like most of the rest of your profile,” So I write her anyway, because it’s not like my options are increasing.

      Look, my profile is like this, Typical right side, selection box stuff:

      5’9″
      A few extra pounds (190lbs now)
      Doesn’t smoke
      Doesn’t drink
      Doesn’t gamble
      Doesn’t sleep around
      Doesn’t lie or steal or do drugs.

      Background/history:
      I talk about life experiences or whatever I feel like the day I write it, and I may change it several times over the next few days or weeks.

      Interests:
      Let’s face it, I’m a nerd. I play Starcraft. I watch Star Trek. I’m re-watching “Seven Days” from the 1990’s. I have an I.Q. of 145. I’ve read the entire Bible several times and 66 Bible commentary volumes, and a couple hundred novels, science books, encyclopedias, etc. So what I write in here can be 10 pages long if I want it to be, and that’d be the tip of the iceberg….

      YOU won’t read it, and YOU won’t respond.

      And most of you will be interested in next to nothing of it, and I know that. There are a few exceptions. I ran into one woman the other night, and was shocked by her profile. I tried writing her, because her profile was like the female reciprocal of mine, and the woman won’t respond. they say not to write more than once or twice to a woman, so I gave up after two tries. Maybe I’ll let it alone for a month or two and try again, or maybe I’ll come to my senses and realize the woman doesn’t actually want a guy with the same interests as her, she was just writing a profile.

      I don’t just write anybody.

      I don’t write any woman I couldn’t conceive of myself marrying, at least at that point based on what was known about her from her profile. If there is some red flag that says I’d not marry her based on that knowledge, I do not message her.

      I don’t write any woman unless I feel some genuine ability to LOVE her. Period.

      What do I get out of it?

      Nothing.

      You can write me back and call me a lying son of a bitch if you want to, and You will have written more than any 10 women combined from OkCupid and Datehookup and Zoosk, Match, Christian singles, yahoo, and Eharmony COMBINED.

      Got it yet?

      You women really do not want what you claim you want, and you hold men to unfair and logistically, humanly impossible standards.

      Personally, I find it completely insulting and dehumanizing.

      1. 32.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Sorry, Wade. Don’t blame women because you have no game. No one is saying you’re a bad guy. But complaining that there’s something wrong with women because they don’t appreciate you is ass-backwards. Go on Gk2Gk.com. Buy http://www.findingtheoneonline.com (it’s for men, too). Use http://www.e-cyrano.com. Just stop complaining that women are wrong for not wanting you. Either find nerdy women who appreciate nice dorks who don’t know how to flirt, or learn how to be more successful with women. Those are your choices.

  3. 33
    Ren

    Guys were full-on spamming my inbox with multiple messages before I could reply to even one asking why I wasn’t responding and what was wrong. Guys would become hostile when I told them I wasn’t interested in NSA sex, or guys that had started normal and nice quickly turned the conversation into something explicitly sexual in nature. Seemingly nice dudes in quite esteemed careers asking to hook up in 24 hours and sending them naked pics of myself despite multiple times telling them that I didn’t want to.”

    All of this right here is why, as a single woman, I no longer date online.  
    In the beginning when I first started (this was before online dating became popular and the norm), I was able meet  guys, go out on dates, and had few relationships.  As the years progressed and I continued to try to meet men online, the quality of men has gotten worse and worse. It eventually got to a point that either men were just viewing my profile but not contacting me (whenever I’ve contacted men I’ve never gotten a response. Not ever), or the ones who did were only looking for NSA sex. It is so true that men online become belligerent when you don’t comply with their inappropriate requests, or if you don’t give them information you don’t feel comfortable sharing.

    A few years ago I finally came to the conclusion that online dating was a waste of time. Evan, I know you are a huge proponent of online dating, but I just can’t do it anymore. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.  No matter how many times I’ve tried online dating, the results have been the same–men not looking to date but only have sex.  Writing a great ad doesn’t matter when men skip over what you write and only respond to you based on your picture. And we women can tell when a man hasn’t taken the time to read our ads. 

    If I can’t meet a man organically in person, I don’t want to be bothered.  

  4. 34
    debbie

    Someone used that gorgeous guy’s pics with the baby blue shirt, blue jeans and curly black hair and scammed me.  There is one pic at the beginning of this blog.  His user name was JR Michaelson on WealthyMatch. Beware!!

    1. 34.1
      Karmic Equation

      How did you get scammed? I’m curious. You didn’t send money, did you? That is just nuts. I don’t even send money to friends or family. Whyever would you send money to a total stranger?

    2. 34.2
      Wade

      Hey,

      There is a data mining and money scam on all dating networks. In fact, I’m convinced Datehookup actively encourages scamming people, and the administrators may even be in on the scamming.

      Pretty photograph, just convincing enough, a half decent, just interesting enough profile. Wow. Let’s message her.

      Couple hours later:
      Check inbox, “Hey, a response! Let’s see what we got here.”

      Spends a few hours (or sometimes a day) exchangine texts with some bitch who claims to be in New Orlearns, but is really in Pennsylvannia, on a “business trip”, and after all this she “agrees” to meet for a date since she’ll be “back in NOLA” on such and such a day. So then when the day comes, she asks for some ridiculous amount of money to help get back home.

      It’s a human being who sits on the other side of the computer and spends her entire day talking to guys, trying to steal any information she can from you, or trying to convince you to buy airline tickets or send money.

      She’s really good at setting up “double pronged” attacks too: Make a profile, wait for the sucker (me or some other guy) to fall for it, etc. While you’re talking to her, you suddenly get a message from another person…who’s profile you probably visited, but didn’t respond to…get ready, they’re both in on it.

      Its the same person, the FBI knows about her, and can’t catch her anyway, and she runs that gimmick every day. 

      Yes, it happens to guys.

      Yes, it happens often.

      I get many, many more con-artist responses than real dating related responses. Probably 10 to 1 or worse. 

  5. 35
    Karmic Equation

    Maybe it’s because I’m Asian. While I get a few inappropriate messages, most are ok, and are more along the “You’re hot” short msgs. When I bother to send a thanks-but-no-thanks message, most guys are very polite, and reply “Thanks for your honest reply. Good luck to you too!”
     
    Once or twice I got blasted. But one time was because the guy was trying too hard and he seemed nice so I tried to tell him he shouldn’t try so hard to impress with his message (he wrote an essay, and it seemed cut & paste). He didn’t appreciate my advice and called me names. Lesson learned. After that, no more unsolicited advice or I don’t bother responding.

  6. 36
    starthrower68

    I just had an interesting e-mail exchange with a fellow who was upset because women block him when he turns the conversation sexual. He says we’re frigid.  I tried to conduct an exercise in empathy with him and explain to him, kindly and politely, why a woman might take umbrage.  His response was that he thought a woman would feel worse about not being noticed at all than being sexually objectified.  I really didn’t know where to go with that and just decided to let it alone and move on.

    1. 36.1
      Karl S

      He’s very naive if he thinks it’s a good idea to turn the conversation sexual at any point. Even if a meeting does result in a hook-up, you only get there by building a rapport and keeping everything strictly polite and G-rated until you get a read on the other person and what the vibe is between you face to face. I’ve only ever had one online conversation that got sexual and that was because she was much older than me, knew exactly what she was after and didn’t want to waste time.

    2. 36.2
      JennLee

      I agree with Karl. It is very naive, but it seems there are no shortage of naive men in this regard. Also, I had a friend who confided to me that there is some misguided PUA stuff out there that tells men to quickly make things sexual or they risk being put in the friend zone. There may be some truth to that but I would say two things in response. First, most men are clumsy at it. Second, making a flirty sexual innuendo and leaving it at that is sufficient, but most men go way way too far. I could also add a third point in that there are also men who are only interested in the sexual stuff and nothing else. So it is better for men to separate themselves from those types by not engaging in sexual talk at all. It is better to not say anything sexual than to say something clumsy.

  7. 37
    GL

    I keep making jokes about running a prostitution ring on OK Cupid. The women who understand what I mean laugh, the ones who don’t understand react…we’ll not enthusiastically. LOL! It is BAD on the free sites, although there are some gents. Guys…you are not going to impress many women with your advances.  I shut my profile down after a ‘last straw,’ when ANOTHER poor sap emailed me saying he just got out of a relationship and wants a FWB. Gimme a break! I’m going to try a paid site down the road, I need a break!

  8. 38
    Misty Gilbert

    I began dating/online dating for the first time ever, April 2014.  Two weeks into it, I had 65 guys messaging me.  Overwhelming??? Absolutely!!!  To the point I wanted to quit?  More than.  But I didn’t. I set goals and expectations on myself to be different a create an experience that they would remember. I messaged every guy back, expressed to them a nice compliment or appreciation for what they wrote, even if it wasn’t one I wanted to proceed with, there is no reason to treat them ugly, rude, disrespectful, or harsh.  Yes, I have my criteria and deal breakers and I don’t plan to deviate from them, but you can still be sweet about it.  Be generous.  Be loving.  Be kind.  Everyone is in this to find their soul mate and it isn’t easy for either party.  Dating gets a bad rap because people don’t treat each other as they want to be treated.  Date intentionally.  Be open, authentic and real.  Don’t play games and you won’t have people playing games with you.  Communicate.  Be reasonable.  Trust that God will bring you the person you need in your life!

  9. 39
    Elizabeth

    I’m 61 and get the lot: dick photos, men wanting me to be a mother to their children (not interested), men wanting to be married (not interested), men wanting to emigrate and live with me (said in the opening email. Again, not interested), 20 and 30 year olds looking for a shag (what?!), men looking at my photos and not my profile, undereducated barely literate men (I have a doctorate and prefer to be able to converse with like minded people), men from across the ocean (my profile on okcupid states “nearby”), men wanting me to support them, and so on. It’s depressing and tedious. My profile says exactly what I’m after, yet few bother reading it. When I send  a short note say, “Thanks, but no thanks,” some will get nasty. Some will say to a comment such as “I’m only interested in considering local men,” that they are willing to migrate, and what’s the weather like in Australia. Gee wizzz. Words fail me.

  10. 40
    Christi

    I’ve been hit on several times by men far older than me, the most recent being in his early 50s.  I might mention that I’m 18.
    It’s absolutely disgusting and irritating and constantly I’m left wondering why I only seem to attract men who are far older than me and only have an interest in having relations with a young girl who isn’t even out of her parents’ house yet.  What I wouldn’t give to attract one nice guy who is around my age! 

  11. 41
    JustB

    I’m in my early 30’s, and have been doing online dating on and off for about 5 years. I find that I tend to get a particular kind of avalanche: 1. The older guy (55+) that is looking to show wife #1 he’s still got it;  2. The foreign guy who’s looking for a green card (a friend says I have the “perfect passport”: American with visas to live in a couple different countries.) ; and 3. The foreign guy who interprets my covered-up photos to mean that I’m socially, politically, or otherwise conservative, and therefore perfect to bring home to mother.  I figure this is because my professional photos (best advice ever, Evan!) were taken outdoors in winter and the seasonally-appropriate dressing is being mistaken for a particular moral code.  

    On the “that’s interesting” side of things, I received a proposition from someone who was married and was looking for someone to surrogate their child and avoid the “high costs” of dedicated agencies. I’ve also heard from a few cross-dressers; someone who sent me a long..fanfic…involving me, him, 2 other people, and PVC clothing; and someone who claimed to be a vampire and was looking to start a coven. I’ve also received a couple of messages from diaper fetishists, looking for an “adult figure” to join them. 

    I think what helps to have a bit of a zen attitude. It is what it is. The long-distance guys get a “local only, thanks anyway”, the creeps get ignored, the truly weird get a “Wow. Interesting. Not into that, but thanks for saying hello.” If someone normal-ish comes along, I’ll go out on a date or 2 with them and see what comes of it. 

  12. 42
    Wade

    “What’s it like to be me, trying to get a positive response from a woman on any dating site.”

    This is a bit of a rant, but there is no strong language, except where used in a hypothetical context. It’s a “rant” because “advice” whether by man or woman absolutely never works for me, even if I follow it to the letter every time, or if I try to follow it as a “general rule” doesn’t matter, doesn’t work.

    My online dating woes:

    Man repeatedly tries free dating sites, such as OkCupid and Datehookup, etc, has repeatedly tried eharmony and match and others, and never gets a positive response from a woman.

    Man is a perfect gentleman, and doesn’t talk trash to women, and does pretty much everything correctly, automatically, by nature that the WOMEN say they want a man to do in those complaints they write on their facebook page or another blog.

    When noticing an interesting woman’s profile, man spends 30 minutes to an hour deciding what he likes best about her and how best to communicate with her, and tries to compose a coherent message to her; Trying not to sound like a complete stick in the mud, while I also trying not to sound like the guy she claims not to want who just wants to get down her pants.

    I never use profanity or say stupid crap to women like “hey you want to get laid” or whatever, okay maybe sometimes some sort of innuendo if she started it first in her profile.

    I respond to her profile. The type of photo she has, the substance of her profile. That is my nature. I work with whatever she gave me.

    After several years of this off and on, man has had 1 neutral first response and 2 positive first responses to contacts. Among those, the “neutral” as I defined it, is she bothered to reply to me to tell me she wasn’t interested. Hey, that’s better than I got out of 99.99% of women, so she gets thanked for that.

    For the 2 positive first and second responses to contacts, absolutely nothing leading to any meaningful conversation, flirting, or real contact (except in cases where it later turned out to be a con artist). One of the women got upset when it took me too long to load an extra photo, and cut contact. The other woman, after the third contact or so, got upset over some minor misjudgment on my part about dining behavior on a first date.

    That’s what my “online dating” experience has been. I can take the “dating I.Q.” test and get a perfect score, and did that BY MY NORMAL DECENT NATURE, and never once get a positive response from any woman on the internet.

    Man wonders what he is doing wrong, checks “what not to do” from Okcupid itself. Turns out women don’t want to be complimented, according to them, but accoring to other sources they do. Check a very large rant from a WOMAN on okcupid and datehookup, and her biggest complaints were against everything wrong that I NEVER do.

    I wrote her a multi-page response telling her I already did everything she claimed women wanted, and didn’t do the things she claimed women didn’t want, and it never worked.

    It doesn’tmatter what site you go on:
    Christian site (Hey, I’d actually prefer that, but they turn out to be the worst actually, because everyone is a judgmental hypocrite.)

    Okcupid: Love the site in principle. Never get any responses though.

    Datehookup: The forum is more interesting and mor einteractive than the actual dating messaging. The women never respond to text messages. Asking some of the women about certain things on the forum leads to conflicting ideas, because I’d rather go to the source on “how to get a woman to respond,” but then the “source” contradicts itself.

    Match and Eharmony: A girl once said she might like to go out, so I suggest coffee, as it’s the safe, decent thing to do. She says, “I don’t like coffee,” I try something else, normal “decent” first meeting/dating ideas, and she shoots that down and doesn’t respond afterwards. Maybe she wanted me to take her to a 4 star restaurant on a first meeting, I don’t know.

    Man gives up on the “decent” sites because never get responses from them anyway, and tries “dirtier” places, contrary to my own convictions, so use your imagination. No luck there either, unless I wanted a prostitute, which I don’t. I’m not accusing everyone in those places of being that either, I’m just saying that’s the way it is.

    Man spends tens, scores, hundreds of dollars to get a membership on another “decent” paid site. Man discovers that after having paid, he can’t contact non-paying members, and there aren’t any paying members nearby. Site refuses to refund the money.

    Man spends money on Zoosk and discovers it has no favorites system, and you can’t even keep track of who you have and haven’t messaged, and when, or even how to send a second “refresher” message to the same person, if you can even find their profile again among the useless search criteria they have.

    Man ends up reading a 10 page rant by a female dater about how all the guys mistreat her, etc, etc, and I’m like, “I’ve never once done any of those things to a woman…”

    And when I wrote about a 10 page response to her publicly about it, she didn’t answer, because she knows what she was telling guys to do doesn’t “work” either.

    She could get a message from me, and as soon spit in my face as date me, and 30 minutes later she’ll get a message from one of the creeps she claims she doesn’t want to hear from, and she’s sold on him.

    Seriously, “want to fuck” usually is not the first thing that comes to my mind anyway, but maybe that really is what they want a guy to write to them, even though they claim they don’t, because they DO NOT respond to what they claim they will respond: “romance” or “talking nice” or “just being friends”. Okay, what guy has ever gone on a dating site “just looking for friends” anyway?

    If I said that in a vacuum, I’d be a LIAR, like her, and then she actually would have some excuse to accuse me of gaming her. Besides, I’ve tried that one, and it doesn’t work anyway. In some cases, someone lives 5 to 10 miles away, you could easily meet for coffee and have a few laughs, etc, and if nothing comes of it, not much lost, but you don’t even get a response from them, and you know they got your message because they were online 10 minutes after you wrote it.

    Now on the other hand, “non-scientific” studies have been done as a joke by media and comedians which showed women automatically rated a guy 3 to 5 points higher based on his income being higher than expected (hidden information) compared to when she was first introduced to his profile.

    I guess it really is true what they say. Money talks, and bullshit walks.

    I’ll find someone right for me eventually, but in all likelihood, it actually won’t be by taking the “female dating guru’s” advice either, because she doesn’t want what she says she wants either, and she’s writing a 10 page rant about guys not knowing how to talk to her.

    Like I told her, most female profiles look like they were composed by first grader. They can’t spell five letter words. They say things like:

    “I like having fun. I’m down to Earth and live life to the fullest.” *If has child Insert here* “I have x kids, they are my world….looking for “experienced” man.” 

    Anybody else notice the contradiction here? She doesn’t want a player (rant page, search google for it,) but in her profile she says she…wants a player…but doesn’t want a player…

    Hey guess what? Keep treating the guy knocking on your door worse than you would a stray DOG and he certainly doesn’t learn anything useful about whatever in the heck it is you expect from him, so whatever you THINK you want as “experience” you contradict yourself and prevent yourself from having. Then you turn around and go with the very guy you LIED to the other guy about, and date him, and marry and divorce him 2 years later.

    You think guys lie to women?

    Join a dating site, you poor fool. Women lie at least twice as much as men, and they do it for the same or worse reasons.

    I can predict 80% of what her profile will say before I read it, because most of it falls in that vein:

    Read between the lines of her profile:

    “Seemingly decent Female dating site user ACTUALLY doesn’t know what she really wants, but sure has fun mocking or ignoring any guy who tries to contact her.”

    Count yourself blessed, guy, whoever you are, who may have actually had a few positive experiences on dating sites.

    They are supposed to be to help people meet, and they seem to cause more strife than good.

    Oh yeah, I’m a Christian, and the 3 positive responses I’ve ever gotten actually came from atheists and agnostics….or little “good” christians who lie about their religion after having read the okcupid study showing people respond more favorably to the term “atheist” than to any other religious affiliated term.One lie is as good as another, it seems, for a woman.

    I don’t want to come off as being “bitter,” but it really does start to sting when you get kicked in the teeth by literally every person you try to contact.

    Oh, by the way, No I don’t just message the prettiest or the most fashionable, or the fittest or whatever. I have weird and varied tastes. I could just as easily love a “Goth” as a “Legally Blonde” Reese Witherspoon type, or whatever, and I’ve made that clear in the past.

    What they are looking for is a lie though. A while back, I messaged this girl who had a profile which was screaming, “I’m what you really need/want.” So I waited, and I waited. Then a few weeks later I messaged her again, and I waited. I know she was online the whole time, but no response. Why? She doesn’t want what she claims she wants. She wants something I’ll never be no matter what, if I bent over backwards trying, and ripped my eyes out and laid them at her feet, so what’s the point of it?

    The closest match I’ve found on the entire internet in terms of personality and interests, and the woman refuses to even respond to me. 

    This post does not reflect typical message length. When I write to somebody on a dating site it is usually between 4 sentences and 4 paragraphs, depending on how much she wrote in her profile, and how much I find her interesting.

    anyway, I’ve said enough, and I’m sure most of it is already known by other guys like me. I don’t know what women’s responses will be, but hey, you’re welcome to roast me or agree with me. I’ll listen and learn, or maybe you’ll respond with stuff I’ve already found out doesn’t really work, either way I guess spending a few minutes or hours debating it here is better than a lot of other things I could be doing with my time. 

  13. 43
    Wade

    I’m a 33 year old christian virgin guy, and I’ve been rejected by every allegedly “good” woman I have ever attempted contact with, because they want either more money, or a “more experienced” guy, paradoxically. Claims she doesn’t want a player, but actually does want a player.

    Well, if it could help me love you any better, or help you love me better, than I could certainly wish I had fucked around some. I’m quite sorry to have disappointed you. I was raised in an ultra-conservative family, and I had severe social anxiety on top of that, and it pretty well screwed me over for the first ~20 years of life in terms of normal dating experiences, and I’ve spent the next third of my life trying to fix the damage.

    Sorry to disappoint though. I’m not “experienced” and I have to read the “how to” guide for stimulating a woman, because I’ve never done it myself, and you’ll obviously laugh your ass off because a significant percentage of 15 year olds have infinitely more dating and sexual experience than a 33 years old guy.

    So be it.

    Some of you did your share to help create me.

    Sorry to disappoint that I had a medical problem causing me to be impossibly shy, and pretty much no woman ever figured that out and you know, tried to make a first move or anything, because you mostly expect the guy to know everything and do everything perfectly.  Obviously you do, because if that wasn’t the case, somebody, somewhere, would have given me a chance by now.

    Anyway…Women ONLY seem to date guys who sleep around, and they say so in their profile on the one hand, but then lie to themselves about it and bitch and complain at the guy when they realize he…sleeps around…wtf…

    But they don’t even respond to the guy who obviously doesn’t do the things they claim they don’t want a guy to do either.

    If that’s how you supposedly “good” women want to be, then hey, if one of you actually wanted a decent guy, I’ve tried to be that all my life, but since you never so much as acknowledge a person exists, screw it.

    If you allegedly “good” women want ME to do what YOU do to guys, fine.
    I’ve had that in my mind for a long time now, not likely something any of you will be familiar with, but the story goes in the Bible that “God” told “Hosea” to go buy a prostitute named “Gomer” off the auction block down town, and marry her.Oh this has been on my mind for quite a few years now, because it came to my attention that none of the “good” ones wanted me anyway. I thought about it, and I feared to think about it, and then I thought about it some more and prayed about it, and the more I think about it the more “right” it seems.
    You “ladies” get what you want: Guys like me who tried to follow the “true love waits” lie, and ended up stuck somewhere in no-man’s land get to leave you alone, while you pursue the very players you claim you don’t want…and end up with broken, screwed up marriages 2 years later every time.

    Guys like me don’t get what I really want, but I just might get what I obviously need, since none of you want me.

    What I wanted was love. I don’t know what the hell everyone else wanted. They use the same word, but they actually hate one another.

    Hey, win win I guess….If you change the definition of win quite a bit anyway.

    Why?

    I write the pristine virgin (apparently) but she doesn’t reply.
    I write the single mother, and she doesn’t reply.
    I write the goth, and she doesn’t reply.
    I write to the bi-sexual girl, and she replies (sometimes,) but isn’t interested.
    I write to the “Christian” on Christian mingle/single or whatever other site, and they don’t reply.
    I write the atheist, they don’t reply. Actually, a few do. I’ve never gotten a reply from a “Christian” unless she was claiming to set me up with someone else, and then that person never responded. Go figure.

    Okay, and I don’t think of them like that while I’m writing, I’m just making the point that I give everyone a chance, and they don’t give me a chance. I don’t just write anyone, I write people I genuinely seem to like, and genuinely have some things in common with, and they don’t give a damn and don’t reply.

    So really, really sinking in that women in America most certainly hold men to a much higher standard than they hold themselves, and impossible standard really. I mean hell, if I’m not your “pure and honest guy” or whatever it is you TELL YOURSELF you’re looking for, then lady you aren’t going to find one.

    Problem number one is I’m too honest about it, but if you want “me” then you have to deal with it, because I don’t lie for a job, and I don’t lie for a date, and I won’t lie to save a marriage either.

    You don’t want that anyway. You want a  guy who sleeps around, but you tell yourself you don’t because you somehow think that makes you feel better. If he and I message you under otherwise similar circumstances, you’ll take him every time, you’ll ignore me and not even respond, and then you’ll blame that poor fool when he messes up again, even though he is in fact EXACTLY what you wanted the whole time. I’ve been doing this little circle jerk my entire adult life now, so I get it. Whatever you say you want, it’s probably a lie. Whatever you think you want, it’s probably a lie.

    Evidence exhibit A: The “White Knight” lie.

    “I’m waiting for my prince charming/white knight to sweep me off my feet,” or some variant of it.

    Well, your first problem is that was a fairy tale, honey. A fantasy. You know, as in NOT REAL.

    Now I tried to be pretty damn much exactly that, but you know it just doesn’t work. It’s good for driving you crazy, but not much else.

    If you wanted some “white knight” you wouldn’t treat people like me the way you do.

    You want to get pissed on.
    You want to get a failed relationship and divorce.
    You go to it willingly, knowingly.
    You like abusive men. Sure you do, you date them 10 times over before you’d even speak to me.
    You like drug users and thugs. Then when the asshole punches you in the face and ruins your eye or your jaw, you go back to him, or some other jerk worse than him.

    Hey, I’ve actually seen some of you get married, get divorced, and back on the same dating site. I’ve been single that long, and God help you, you still have the same problem you did before the previous marriage!

    And you HURT ME worse than I have ever hurt any person in my life. One after another YOU HURT ME.

    You complain if a guy messages too many girls inside a week, but from HIS perspective, he has the experience of being rejected over and over to the point of being disgusted with even trying, after not one of you answers within a year anyway.

    So why the hell am I, or any other guy, beholden to limit myself to wait on your response? Hey, we all know the vast majority of the time is NOT coming, because you’ve already rejected and pre-judged me for 500 reasons I don’t even know about, and I don’t have the time to wait on 1 response that isn’t coming per day or per week, BUT you hold that against a guy if he message 5 or 10 people.

    So you and your “girlfriend” posted two profiles online (I happen to know some of you are even dirty and make several extra “bait” profiles,) and a guy responded to both of them, because you know, maybe you both live in the same area, and maybe you’re both interesting, and maybe he has a God given right to talk to whoever he damn well wants to, BUT you two got mad at him and neither of you responded because he spent his time and wrote to two “women” in the same day.

    Oh my God what a CRIME.

    You spiteful, jealous Evil Bitch, get a life.

    If there was an ounce of love between the two of you, then you might have done something, you know, rational and mature, like I don’t know, talk to one another and see whether one of you was a better fit for the guy than the other, and maybe, just maybe instead of being a spiteful evil bitch, one of you might have got to meet a decent guy, and the other would get their chance later…but noooo. Instead, you both falsely accused HIM of being a “Player” because he read two profiles and said “hello”.

    Piss off. Try hard enough to make somebody look bad, and guess what? you will.

    Congratulations. You got what you wanted.

    If that’s how all of you are, then no wonder online dating is so screwed up.

    You’re a GIRL he’s a GUY. You’re on a DATING SITE. If you don’t answer him, he’s messaging someone else. You’re wasting his time, and you don’t have a right to demand that he only talk to you, when there’s next to zero chance that you’re actually interested in him in the first place. It’s an unfair and unreasonable standard.

    So after seriously coming to grips that women really do not want a decent guy at all, and moreover, they go out of their way to ruin the good name of the guys who are decent, I said wtf, you know. Why bother?

    Now on a forum, or a blog, you “ladies” will respond with criticism, insults, mockery, bad advice, good advice (I know not which is which at this point), etc, etc. Blame the guy for admitting he visited such and such site, etc.

    Same guy sends you a simple, “Hello, would you like chat or get a coffee sometime,” followed by a few sentences or paragraphs explaining things I think are interesting about you, that we might have in common, and so on, and you ignore it. I know you’re online, because some of these sites alert you that the other person is online, so it’s not like, “oh, gee, she just didn’t get the message yet, she’s having a busy day.”

    Hey, you certainly don’t owe anyone a response either, but as a guy, it would be nice, from time to time, if you even bothered to acknowledge that I’m a human being who actually sat down, read your profile, and spent 30 minutes or an hour thinking about what I liked about you and how to best say it. Wasn’t that one of “women’s” complaints? That guys don’t know how to express themselves, or they can’t spell, or they can’t write a meaningful message, “he sent me dick picks,” or some other BS I’d never do…

    Honestly, I find some very, very uneducated women online all the time on all the most common sites. I’m typing this rather quickly so it may not be evident, but I have a clerical aptitude about 4 standard deviations above average,a nd quite frankly most of you women are terrible at writing and spelling and elucidating or articulating your feelings and interests.

    You want a guy to be honest right? Not really, but you say you do.

    So here it is:

    Most of your profiles suck horribly, and I find myself poring over scores of stuff like this:

    Lazy:
    “Message me and I’ll tell” *otherwise blank profile.

    When you foolishly bother to message her, you won’t get a response.

    Canned soup:
    This one lists 50 adjectives and pronouns which are nearly identical to the other girl, with no substance.

    I’m thoughtful, lovely, provocative, honest, sincere, loyal, flexible, dependable, intuitive, sensitive, full of life, outgoing, endearing, understanding, expectant, expeditious, adventurous, “God fearing” etc, etc, humble, and so on.

    Can you write a sentence? A paragraph?

    Do you seriously complain about guys not being able to hold a conversation, while your very sentience is in question, as you sound like an android?

    Half of these tend to be con-artists anyway. There seems to be some hypnotic effect that the “Nigerians” have figured out, so that guys fall for this crap anyway, and then find themselves messaging somebody who is about to ask for money.

    I don’t know what the other half are, maybe they really are just that lazy.

    Obviously a liar:
    Half the responses in her basic bio are contradicted by what she wrote in the paragraphs section of her profile.

    So I go join some pretty dark, and quite honestly disgusting “Adult” dating sites. I guess insert “most guys’ excuse to visit a porn site”, but I honestly started going to those places because nobody would respond to me on normal dating sites.

    I don’t get replies from very many people there, but I actually do get to talk to people once in a while, but nothing ever seems to come of it, but a lot more than “Christian mingle” or okcupid or the rest of them. I don’t really even want to go to those sites, but for some reason one day I did, and I’m still ashamed of it, but they treat guys better there than on the supposedly “christian” site.

    Whatever. I’m done with this for now. I’ll probably say something else in a bit, but I’ve got  two papers to write tonight, and some other stuff, which I have to find time to do.
     

    1. 43.1
      starthrower68

      While I am certainly not without sympathy for your frustration I don’t think either gender has anything on the other when it comes to this sort of behavior.  I’m not asserting that you haven’t experienced what you claim but it would appear that it might be useful not to take this stuff so personally.  If a woman is choosing mistreatment over a healthy relationship, then you have dodged a bullet.  I can’t say I’m a fan of the PUA thing but maybe you might look into it for the sake of learning if there’s something you can take away to make your approach more effective.  I can only speculate, of course, but anything would be an improvement over the anger and resentment.

    2. 43.2
      EmeraldDust

      Wade @ 43 – First, I am sorry you are feeling so despairing.  And I hope you have your anxiety disorder under control.  I know that the world judges mood disorders very harshly, but in reality it is a brain chemical imbalance, but it is not judged like having low blood sugar or a calcium deficiency.  (perhaps because the symptoms are more difficult to deal with) but there are various treatments to get the symptoms under control. 
       
      I couldn’t read your post in it’s entirety, but I am really puzzled that Christians have such a hard time pairing up.  This is not the first I’ve heard about this.  I used to envy people who belonged to a church, because I figure they have a regular pool of people with shared values, and opportunities to meet.  And usually several types of special interest groups.  (singles groups, hiking groups, charitable work groups, etc.)  In the early years of my marriage I belonged to a Religious Science church (not a Christian denomination) and later Unity, which calls itself a Christian denomination, but more mainstream Christians called the a heretical cult.  Anyway, I sometimes think about going back, to give me a chance at meeting a fairly like minded person.  However, there were quite a few things that I couldn’t quite believe in both of these churches, so I would feel like a hypocrit going to a church to couple up and socialize if I wasn’t more on board with their beliefs.  And I’m an agnostic to boot, which is basically a Heathen, so even a very liberal church like those 2, I just wouldn’t be quite right there.
      But it really astounds me that Christian folk have the same, and maybe even more struggles than other searching singles.  Isn’t Christianity all about marriage, fidelity,  & waiting ? (although I think very few Christians wait until marriage, most are at least in a serious relationship that has a very real possibility leading to marriage before becoming physically intimate) 
      I see many singles struggle to find a partner, that I just didn’t think it would be that hard for.  (I’m in the 50+ crowd and I know that a tough order to fill)  But when I see young, very beautiful, very sweet women struggle to find love, and young, chivilrous, attractive men who are lonely and say they can’t find someone, and now Christians can’t even find each other on a Christian dating site or a church, it really does make me wonder, what on earth is going on, and why do SO MANY good people seem to struggle to find love ?

    3. 43.3
      Evan Marc Katz

      Sorry for you Wade, but complaining about the opposite sex solves nothing. Complaining about online dating solves nothing. Complaining about Christianity solves nothing. You are the common denominator in your own life. No one else is to blame. So the next time you feel like venting, instead of writing a 3000 word screed on a blog for women, do it in a journal, to a friend, or with your therapist. You sound like you’re two seconds away from being the next Eliot Rodger and I hope you get the help you need.

      1. 43.3.1
        Wade

        “game”.

        It’s not a “game” to me.

        You’re right, I am the common denominator in my life.

        But you are wrong about “game”.

        A “game” involves two people.

        I show up, and I get rejected. That’s not a “game” that’s a well, in sports the analogy falls short, because there’s typically not a case where one team simply gets to say the other doesn’t get to play at all.

        I don’t get allowed to “play”, if you want to use that disgusting terminology, so I don’t learn anything, then when I complain about it, I’m told it’s my own fault that I don’t know anything.

        Great reasoning there. Marvelous.

        That part is NOT my fault, because I can’t change you, and I can’t get “dating experience” if nobody dates me because I don’t have dating experience.

        There’s something you don’t know involved, and I had added it, but I removed it because it’s not appropriate here.

        To put it mildly I was sexually harassed by women, and kicked out of college because they falsely accused me of committing a sex crime against one of them, and I had proof on closed circuit camera at a Wendy’s that I was not where they said I was when they said I was.

        Six on one, who would you believe?

        Most people would belive the six.

        A court would believe the six.

        Judge Judy would believe the six.

        Six out of a room of roughly 20 gave false police reports against me, and nobody defended me.

        Nobody.

        If not for a camera in Wendy’s proving I wasn’t where they all said I was, I’d probably be in prison for a felony that never happened, all because of some evil girls “prank”.

        That was 4 years ago. I thought I was helping myself by going to this local community college, instead I’m out 7k and a tarnished reputation, and a ruined credit score.

        What do you think now?

        That’s the less embarrassing version, and that’s not the first time. 

  14. 44
    Wade

    On the dork/geek thing.

    I don’t tend to have any sexual chemistry with other people like that.

    It tends to divulge into a bunch of facts and figures, or theorycrafting about something, and I’m already too much in my own head regarding such things, so that’s not going to help me in all likelihood. It runs the risk of making my problem worse in fact.

    You know, I’ll take that part of your advice, but I’ve tried this sort of thing before. Not the same site, but whatever.

    The “activity” becomes a distraction from the intentions of being social.

    I solve N-body equations in my notebook between classes, by hand, because that’s what I felt like doing that day, and I might write a program to do it faster some day, or I might never explore it again. That’s just the way I am. This is in regards to galaxy merger simulation, for example.

    Yeah, not conducive to dating behavior.

    Maybe it won’t be lke that, I’m just not sure where the passion about people is going to be digging through all the pedantic knowledge in my head and hers.

    I’m worrying about that, but it’s true.

    1. 44.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      “I don’t tend to have any sexual chemistry with other people like that.”

      And women don’t have sexual chemistry with you for the same reason. N-body equations are not hot to most women, even if intellect itself is.

      Your issue is confidence/self-awareness, moreso than being a nerd. Thus, you can either remain nerdy/celibate/blaming women and narrow your search to women who are attracted to sad/frustrated/angry/socially insecure…OR you can take on the responsibility of being the kind of guy that more women would respond to. I actually think the answer is both. You can largely stay true to who you are and you can join MENSA and find more likeminded people. But getting angry at cheerleaders who aren’t attracted to nerds, when you’re not attracted to nerds either seems pretty futile, no?

  15. 45
    Jackie

    I really enjoyed reading everyone’s comments. A lot of real truth here. I am 60. I am healthy, fairly nice looking and very down to earth. Have met some nice people online and even had some relationships. 

    OK- here is where I stand- tons of odd scammers-language is stilted, photos are fake, and not to offend Christians, their is usually some overbearing language about being a Good Christian Man wanting a Good Christian Woman. I am not sure what this is about… Also in my profile writing I state who I am and what my belief systems are- how do people that are the exact opposite of who I am and what I believe in send me a message. ( This is on top of the 95% of profiles having no description of who and what they are about. )
    My biggest issue- HEALTH. I find that a great amount of men over 50 are simply not healthy- there is no way that I am looking a very heavy man and he is telling me “loves to go to the gym 5 times a week”, “runs or bikes marathons” – whatever.
    And along with the health issue is the sex issue. If you are not healthy, you are not great sexually. 
    If there were some way beyond meeting people besides online dating sites I would . I do not want to hear join a club, look at church bla bla bla. It is not easy to find someone, and having been married, raised 3 children to great adulthood- I simply want someone to be a good friend and lover- not negotiate someone’s lack of money, poor sex and caretaking that is not reciprocal.  

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