Dating And Divorce: Is It ‘Survival Of The Sluttiest’?

Dating And Divorce: Is It 'Survival Of The Sluttiest'?

In a Huffington Post article, New York comedian Juliet Jeske lamented that after the end of a nine-year relationship, she no longer knows how to date. She describes her experiences this way:

“As a person who is by nature very direct and to the point, dating is a mystery trapped in a puzzle, tucked in a fireproof safe thrown down a mineshaft. I just can’t figure it out.”

She goes on to say that “It is just sort of expected by many that you start the physical part of the relationship first, and then see if either partner wants to continue after the fact, sort of a try before you buy situation. Sex before emotional attachment, sex before any form of relationship, sex before everything.”

Jeske is complaining specifically about dating in New York, but I think this phenomenon is universal. I mean, how many times have I said that “men look for sex and find love and women look for love and find sex”? What Jeske doesn’t seem to get is that it’s not an either/or.

You don’t have to sleep with a guy on Date 2 just because some other woman will. That other woman is most likely being used and is wondering why all the guys she sleeps with never amount to anything.

What women DO need to understand is that men are driven by attraction, sex and testosterone. And if you think it’s ridiculous that he’s going to want to have a little foreplay before you’re in a relationship, you’re going to be perpetually frustrated by reality.

Instead of complaining that men are interested in sex (duh), how about you figure out a way to better connect with him outside the bedroom during those first few formative weeks/months? And if all he wants is sex, just ditch him. It ain’t that hard.

Read the article here and let me know your thoughts in the comments below.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Soul Sister

    I wasw divorced within the last two years and I agree with the confusion around dating.  It’s like the girls all turned into women along the way between 20 and 50, and the boys are….well, the boys I recognized from college!  We’re both horny, no one in the room is a virgin, and the woman is suppose to “hold back”?  So he is thinking “God this feels good” and she is thinking “God this feels good, should I be doing this, will he still respect me, will he call me tomorrow, will he think I do this with everyone, but I haven’t been laid in six months and I NEED this, didn’t my friend Betsy have sex with her husband on the first date and they are happily married…blah, blah, blah.”  I am not looking for a husband, but I do want to know if the sex is good I can come back for more and maybe even have some consistency!  And maybe even find we care about each other a bit!

    So I made some mistakes, I got laid by some guys who later said “no thanks” and I tried to not make it about me. And then it happened.  I played the numbers game on Match, did the circular dating, and on my 3rd date with this guy we both looked at each other and knew. Our 4th date was a weekend at a resort, our 5th date was an overnight at his house, and our 6th date we took our profiles off Match.  And the best part was there was no second guessing.  I kept in mind what Evan says “men will do what men want to do” so I was just open and receptive to his pursuit, it felt natural and right, and there were simply no games.

    So I think the confusion and anxiety is when one of the people is either not that into the other or not ready for a real relationship.  We were both ready, the chemistry was there, and we are just riding the wave.  Being vulnerable is scary, but for once it was just easy and right! 

  2. 2
    Gem

    I love my heart, my body, and my soul too much to treat them casually like a ride at an amusement park. There HAS to be monogamy, and mutual strong feelings for me :)

    As Soul Sister said, sometimes it can happen very quickly that a couple just click, and they know they both want something deeper and meaningful, so things progress quickly. Every situation different.

  3. 3
    david

    EMK — I was dying for your response on this!!!!

  4. 4
    david

    Look I lived in NYC for 11 years and I don’t know who this lady is dating, going after, etc. — to quote Millionaire Matchmaker (and I can’t believe I just wrote that), “Her pcker is broken.” There’s no nice, cute guys in NYC? No guy that just wants to use you a sex doll? Really? In 2011? New York is just full of sluts and that’s the reason she can’t find love? And this absurd theory is firing up the blogways and various news outlets? She makes it seem it’s the SWinging 70′s / Plato’s Retreat all over again…Perhaps her article should be called “My Picker Is Broken ‘Cause I can’t Find a Decent Guy in the most Populous city in the United States.” I read her article and didn’t really relate to the world / people she’s describing….(and I’ve been in LA for 11 years, NYC 11 years)

  5. 5
    Goldie

    @ Soul Sister #1 , I love your comment!!
     
    “We’re both horny, no one in the room is a virgin, and the woman is suppose to “hold back”?  So he is thinking “God this feels good” and she is thinking “God this feels good, should I be doing this, will he still respect me, will he call me tomorrow, will he think I do this with everyone, but I haven’t been laid in six months and I NEED this, didn’t my friend Betsy have sex with her husband on the first date and they are happily married…blah, blah, blah.” 
     
    Yep, that was exactly what went through my head in this situation. “God this feels good, I just broke every dating rule in the book, I’ve ruined all my chances of seeing him again, but OMG totally worth it…” blah, blah, blah.
     
    And then he told me there’d never been an emotional connection anyway – so there had never been any chances of seeing him again to begin with – so, totally worth it, amirite? :)
     
    I thought about it and thought about it and finally realized that there are no rules, no expectations, just live your life as it happens, one day at a time… and it’s probably for the better, too. I cannot imagine a situation when two people are perfect for each other, and it doesn’t work out for the only reason that they had sex too soon, or too late, or otherwise not by the book. I’m now doing what Soul Sister did, I’m meeting new people, I’m doing what I want to do and not doing what I don’t want to do, on my own time frame, I’m putting no pressure on myself or the others, and it feels absolutely great. The quality of the people I meet, by the way, has improved dramatically too, once I changed my attitude. Highly intelligent, intellectually curious, all around fun and nice people. If ten percent of the guys I go out with now, remain my friends after a year, my life will be so much richer because of that.
     
    I had a conversation with a guy last night when he said, “I’ve only been on my own for six months, and I still don’t know what the dating protocol is”. I told him, “I spent a year and a half trying to figure out the protocol. And, just when I thought I finally knew the protocol, guess what I found out… there is no protocol.” Everyone is at their own stage in life anyway, everyone does their own thing, and it’s not like the dating police will come and get a guy or a woman for violating the dating code. Just take it easy, do whatever makes you happy, try not to attach too soon, learn from bad experiences and move on… easier said than done, of course :)

  6. 6
    melie

    Right on, Evan!

  7. 7
    Michael17

    Well, New York City is a special case in that there are a lot more single women there than single men. Women there will feel more pressure to go by what the men want, which yes, tends to mean sex early on.

    It’s not like that the further south and west you go in the US. Most cities out west have more single men than women, so there women have more power and choice.

  8. 8
    NN

    Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I don’t get sexual satisfaction from?

    Sure I want to test drive HIM, before I have wasted too much time.. If he is no good, I don’t see any point of meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.

    1. 8.1
      JennLee

      There is no easy answer, but if you understand men, they do like a bit of a challenge, or maybe they don’t but in the end, a challenge makes anything more memorable to them. Do men sit around and tell stories of the beating a team that hadn’t won a game in 2 years, or do they brag about barely beating the team hadn’t lost a game in 2 years? Do men show off a picture of a fish they bought at a market, or the one that they had to fight to catch?

      I think what some miss, such as in the comment above where she states that he says there was no emotional connection is that men and women work differently. With sex, we want to move slowly, have foreplay, and then we get all warmed up an the big bang happens. Men are fast in this area, ready to go. But emotionally, men need time to build up to strong feelings. Their lust, their passion happens very quickly, but emotions take time for a man. So my opinion is that making him wait for a while can allow his feelings for you to develop before he gets what he was after. After he gets what he’s after, he may not feel motivated to develop those emotions.

  9. 9
    AQ

    Okay. I think the confusion is the OPTIONS. There are more options for “dating styles” than ever before. And unfortunately for the “commitment-minded soul” the other options include friends with benefits, hookups and one night stands. 

    BUT I think if you can try to be all you can be, you also have more options for people who want to date you – thin down, make your wardrobe better, work on your past so you forget it and can be fun and fresh again. 

    Here is my take.

    SLOW down. Date a bunch of people until you find the person who wants to be your BF. If you don’t put yourself on the couch (meaning going to a house) you are going to avoid being a hookup before he really knows you and wants you.

    I think you can really have a lot of clues on the first date – how much effort does he put into trying to impress you, is he a bit shy and nervous, is it romantic and is he nice and respectful. And the 2nd date should not be his bed – it should be something fun and did he CALL to make it and want it right away and want to impress you somewhere in public? Or did he text to come over to his house for dinner – BIG difference. 

    I think we all have to take more time to find one who will want to be our exclusive boyfriend before we have sex sex. THIS takes time and patience and aloneness. Once you make the boyfriend/girlfriend and exclusive dating arrangement you are on a speed train to the bed.  You better hope he has some emotion or spark for you before that – i think once they start rockin they don’t notice anything else. 

    NYC sounds like it is a hard place to date.  I wish everyone better luck!! That is sad for sure – but the person above who said women are outnumbered probably makes a good statement. 

  10. 10
    Saint Stephen

    NN #8
     Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I don’t get sexual satisfaction from?

    Sure I want to test drive HIM, before I have wasted too much time.. If he is no good, I don’t see any point of meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.

    If this is the only foundation on which your relationships are built then is bound to be a failure in the long or short Run.

    What about after finding out his good in bed you become emotionally attached and he dumps you for some other lady he considers better in bed?
    It takes more than sex or good quality of sex for a relationship to suceed except what you want is a fling.
     
    Any lady that i happen to have sex with too easily will never be a Good relationship material to me, She will always remain an occasional Booty call or nothing else.
    This is where i think i’m different from from other Men (i don’t look for sex and find love).

    The point i’m trying to make is when you have sex with a “guy” or vice versa, you become emotionally attached and this clouds your sex of judgement.. i guess you already where a relationship like this headed?

    The reason why the divorce rate in America is sky-rocketing is because people more often get maried for Wrong reasons, like financial security, good quality of sex, good looks, too much spark or chemistry, etc. 
    So whenever there is deficiency in any of the aforemetioned reason the next good alternative for them is to go see a divorce lawyer.       
    In “America” people now abuse the Marriage institution by getting in and out whenever they deem it Neccesary.

    Personally i see a scenario where women are getting more slutty by the day while sniveling that Men are studs, there is No more descent guy, blah blah blah. 

    What Women seem to forget is that it “takes two to tango” so there can be No stud without a slut. 

    Bottom line- is more easy to get someone improve sexually than to change the person’s bad characters which you might not be able to put up with in the offing.    

  11. 11
    Margo

    The truth is that it’s best that as women we don’t have sex with a man until he has given us a commitment. Otherwise, and what is happening nowadays is these men go from women to women having free sex and not giving any of these women a relationship.

    That’s how men get to sleep with many different women, as many women that will give it up for free. Also, all men know the playbook, they know exactly what they are doing. No promises and then once they get it, it’s goodbye and on to the next woman. It’s scummy, but it’s the reality. Ladies, you must stand your ground if you want a relationship. You have to look out for and protect yourselves.

  12. 12
    hunter

    @Michael17, many women on the west coast, stay in their own little circles or they choose to stay home most of the time….

  13. 13
    Margo

    Saint Steven, says: “any lady I happen to have sex with too easily will never be a Good relationship material to me”?

    You wanna explain that? What is your part in it?? Here is the stinking double standard in it’s finest glory! Steven, it’s okay for YOU to have sex easily with the woman, and it’s business as usual, but because she was a willing participant in your dirt, she’s now dirty and unworthy of a relationship.

    There you have it ladies…The true nature of men.

  14. 14
    Callie

    Often it seems like another no win situation to me: hop in bed too soon with the guy and he won’t take you seriously. Keep putting him off and he find someone who is perfectly willing to go there. And what exactly qualifies as ‘foreplay’ before a relationship? 

  15. 15
    Gem

    NN #8,

    “Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I get no sexual satisfaction from?”

    Why would I want to get emotionally attached to a man whom I DO get sexual satisfaction from but find after the fact that there’s not much else he has to offer, and so chance for a relationship. I would have risked pregnancy, a sexually transmitted disease, and my emotions for the weight of a man on top of me who means nothing to me, and (hopefully) orgasms. (which, btw, I know I can do better for myself than a stranger who doesn’t even know me or my body could.)

    “I don’t see any point in meeting him after a week of sex – which is the usual case, as I get bored easily.”

    Maybe you get bored because you’re having sex with people before they have a chance to mean anything to you. In any event, if you bore that easily, don’t get married, and if you do, don’t have children because you will most surely wind up divorcing their father.

     

  16. 16
    Marie

    I told a guy on our first or second date (after he specifically asked) that I’m not ready for sex until I’m in a monogamous relationship. He was on board with that, and then a couple dates later he told me he needed sex before a commitment, in case the sex wasn’t good. Haha. I’m a very sexual, sensual and open-minded person, so the idea of not being satisfied by me is…well… ridiculous to say the least. But I know there are women who’ll let him test drive the merchandise so have fun with that:) Ciao!

  17. 17
    sharon

    @ Saint Stephen

    Do you tell the women you deem to easy that if they sleep with you know you won’t be able to take them seriously or do you take advantage of the opportunity? If that latter is true you’re a best a hypocrite at worst an opportunist jerk. Either way I’d say the women you blew off dodged a bullet. 
     

  18. 18
    Ruby

    St Stephen #10

    <<Personally i see a scenario where women are getting more slutty by the day while sniveling that Men are studs, there is No more descent guy, blah blah blah. What Women seem to forget is that it ”takes two to tango” so there can be No stud without a slut. >> 

    So the man gets to be a “stud” in all his glory, while the woman is nothing but a shameless, “sniveling slut”? 

  19. 19
    Margo

    Regarding “Saint” Stephen, Isn’t it ironic that he has “saint” in front of his name. By reading his post, it’s obvious he’s a lot of things, but “saint” definitely ain’t one of them…

  20. 20
    Goldie

    @ St Stephen #10:
     
    “The reason why the divorce rate in America is sky-rocketing is because people more often get maried for Wrong reasons, like financial security, good quality of sex, good looks, too much spark or chemistry, etc. 
    So whenever there is deficiency in any of the aforemetioned reason the next good alternative for them is to go see a divorce lawyer.”
     
    Ohmigawd you nailed it! Um… not. Do you know how difficult and expensive it is to divorce? Do you realize how much more it costs to live as two households instead of one? You mention a divorce lawyer; do you know how much they charge? Please believe me when I say that in the overwhelming majority of cases, people get divorced for very very valid reasons that I, personally, would not take it upon myself to question.
     
    Now why they get married is another story… I’d add pressure from the society to the list of wrong reasons you’ve listed.
     
    Re: the test drive being debated here: I support it. I’ve had it happen on one occasion when the man was really good – smart, funny, nice, responsible, and the sex (which BTW we waited till fifth date/five weeks for) was something out of a horror movie. And yeah, I was emotionally attached to him by then, to the point where I considered putting up with the crappy, weird sex because he was such a great person. Fortunately, the great person messed it up for himself by telling me he was only interested in casual, no commitment (?? what he would have done with his freedom, I will never know. Did he mean he found more women willing to put up with that?) I told him, sorry, I want a serious LTR. Truth be told, I have nothing against casual, but it better be really really good, not the opposite.
     
    @ Marie #16: This guy sounds odd. Bringing up sex on the first date, implying that you may suck in bed in your conversation a couple dates later… what a gentleman. I’d send him on his way for reasons not related to my chastity or whatever, just because he sounds like a selfish inconsiderate jerk.

  21. 21
    hunter

    Saint Stephen!!!…Looks like you are getting hit from all sides!!!

  22. 22
    saint stephen

    Margo said:
    You wanna explain that? What is your part in it?? Here is the stinking double standard in it’s finest glory! Steven, it’s okay for YOU to have sex easily with the woman, and it’s business as usual, but because she was a willing participant in your dirt, she’s now dirty and unworthy of a relationship.
    why did you run an incorrect conclusion to the comment i made? and thereby putting words into my mouth.
    i said if i happen to have sex too easily with a lady, never meant i did (that’s a future tense with uncertainty).

    @sharon
    Do you tell the women you deem to easy that if they sleep with you know you won’t be able to take them seriously or do you take advantage of the opportunity? If that latter is true you’re a best a hypocrite at worst an opportunist jerk. Either way I’d say the women you blew off dodged a bullet.
    Really!!.. Why would i want to tell her that? am i her father?
    Sharon do you tell the men you have sex with that you are test-driving them, so that you can be sure before heading into a relationship with them? i bet if you do non of them would stick around for a LTR or marriage no matter how good the sex was. and sharon if you don’t tell them does that also make you a hypocrite or opportunist jerk? would i be wrong if i\to think (or infer) that the men who moved on from you also dodged a bullet? regardless of whether they were good in bed or not.

    @Ruby
    So the man gets to be a “stud” in all his glory, while the woman is nothing but a shameless, ”sniveling slut”? 
    Ruby i never  said or even thought about it that way… but if you are implying this, probably means you were thinking it that way, then so be it. is gonna be difficult for me changing your preconceived notion, so i wouldn’t even bother attempting.

    @Goldie
    Ohmigawd you nailed it! Um… not. Do you know how difficult and expensive it is to divorce? Do you realize how much more it costs to live as two households instead of one? You mention a divorce lawyer; do you know how much they charge? Please believe me when I say that in the overwhelming majority of cases, people get divorced for very very valid reasons that I, personally, would not take it upon myself to question.
    Goldie why don’t start giving us some of the valid divorce reason’s that is not related to my aforementioned reasons why they get married?
    Example: divorce due to incompatibility is often the end result of too much chemistry relationship… when the chemistry wears off they become incompatible.
    divorce due to unfaithfulness- end result of a good quality sex started relationship. what do you think is going to happen when for some reason’s you are not able to provide the man/woman the good quality sex he craves for? a man or woman that can’t stick around long enough to want to know your partner before having sex to me lacks self discipline, and would always end up being unfaithful if for any reason (like spouse traveling or having a medical condition) the sex is hampered after getting married.
    Goldie sorry but i can’t seem to relate your expensive divorce fee to the seemingly increase in divorce rate and reasons. and 90% of women i know never got married from societal pressure, rather they desired companionship.

    @Margo
    Regarding “Saint” Stephen, Isn’t it ironic that he has “saint” in front of his name. By reading his post, it’s obvious he’s a lot of things, but “saint” definitely ain’t one of them…Margo please don’t judge me if you don’t know me. 
    The reason i made those comment was because i have been meeting a lot of women like NN lately that can’t  be in a sexless relationship no matter how nice, caring and romantic the guy is. Women of our time are becoming like Men and sex is no big deal to them anymore. i am sexually active last long hours and can even have sex 5 times a day but  i like to know my woman very much (her characters)  (if possible get married) before having sex. even if my partner is  bad in bed i’ll be willing to allow her learn as far as we click in every other aspect.
    I know don’t know what it is about women, since i’m good looking they quickly assume or conclude if i don’t wan’t to have sex then it means i must be horrible in bed or perhaps i should say our women of nowadays have a huge sexual appetite, so they end up moving on to a guy that is very much comfortable with sex arrangement, if the guy for any reason moves on, you see them running to their friends, blogs and forum whining all men are stud.
    Women are also double standard… just ask these women complaining men are stud how many of them are ready to be in a sexless (before getting to know each other well) relationship and see an overwhelming majority of them say NO! sure few of them would say yes but when they fall in love or become emotionally attached things changes and they would want to test drive him.
    This has been the case with some of my girl friend they initially agree with the *no sex* arrangement only for them to later tell me they think they are in love and is okay if we have sex now, and they wouldn’t feel bad even if it ended… but i know this is not true with most women, they initially think they won’t feel bad but when it ends you have them feeling suicidal.
    I don’t like having sex with my girlfriend(s) so in case i should find some their characters not appealing (and i know i can’t put up or cope with it), then i can quit without them feeling used.
    I am not ready to change my principle for any woman, i’d rather wait till i find a woman that fits into my ideal and wouldn’t have a problem in “Waiting” then i can assure you we are in for a lifetime relationship and marriage.
    I know many of you will think me odd but the truth is Marriage to me is a very big deal because i don’t believe in divorce… that’s why i’d rather wait long to find my ideal partner rather than rush in and out of marriage. i also don’t get fooled by spark, chemistry, sex, beauty etc.
    and GOD forbids my wife dies i am staying single for the rest of my life.. That is to tell you how sacrosanct i consider marriage to be.  

  23. 23
    AQ

    I have also learned in the dating process that while it is really easy to share a lot of details online and on the phone and by email, it really takes TIME to get to know someone in person and to see how they are going to react to YOU, too, as they get to know you the same way. I feel it is best not to answer texts because I don’t want a text message relationship. I think it is important to space the dates apart and date several people without having sex with them so I can evaluate clearly. There is no way you can know someone good enough by the 2nd or 3rd date to know if you want a relationship much less sex. I am finding that spacing the dates out slows the whole process down and I don’t get too attached – i can think much better. 

  24. 24
    Margo

    @Stephen #22- And I will not call you “Saint”. Please don’t explain to me what you have or have not done yet. It doesn’t matter if you did it or not, your position on the issue has been revealed.

    It’s obvious that you are not from this country, but here in the U.S. we have a different mindset on romantic relationships between men and women. Any woman that marries a man without having sex with him, especially the older they both are, opens herself up to a can of worms.

    By that, I mean they may not be sexually compatible. Some things can be worked on and be fixed, some things can’t… If the man is the one who is against having sex before marriage, chances are very high that he has something to hide in terms of his sexual functioning…Ladies, beware. I do believe that most women are smart enough to know this though. They can pretty much sense that something isn’t right with a man like that.

    If one or both parties are against it for religious reasons, then that is different. In that event, both parties had be able to trust that the other party is being totally honest in that department.

    Even then, I wouldn’t marry someone without having sex with them first. I wouldn’t even be in a long-term relationship with someone and put off sex for a significant amount of time.

  25. 25
    Goldie

    @ St Stephen #22 (jeez, what’s with the bold font… hurts my eyes)
     
    Goldie why don’t start giving us some of the valid divorce reason’s that is not related to my aforementioned reasons why they get married?
     
    Sorry, I’ll pass on your offer, you know why? Because, when I look at a couple that has been together for 20-some years, raised kids together, and then decided to split up, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. I figure that two intelligent, rational adults wouldn’t put themselves and their family members through this unless they really had to. Divorce is a tough thing to go through, is on the list of major stress factors, and to assume that people decide to go through it because the spark wore off (what, after twenty years?) seems to me a little patronizing.
     
    sorry but i can’t seem to relate your expensive divorce fee to the seemingly increase in divorce rate and reasons. and 90% of women i know never got married from societal pressure, rather they desired companionship.
     
    I paid 5K for an amicable divorce that was settled outside of court. If to you that’s small change, I’m happy for you. Isn’t for me. The increase in divorce rates is due to the facts that divorce is more socially acceptable now (there is no stigma attached), and, more importantly, that the divorce laws have changed with more states allowing for no-fault divorce – i.e. you’re no longer required to air your dirty laundry in court in order to get permission to split up.

  26. 26
    Bettina

    I find Saint Stephen’s point of view interesting. I suspect that he comes from another culture where the dating/mating code of conduct is different. He isn’t saying that he participates in the behavior we’re talking about. He is saying that he himself isn’t into what he sees as promiscuous behavior and that he wouldn’t be interested in a woman who is. He is also saying that women pay a higher price for this kind of behavior, in his observation. He knows that he could get away with it, but he is choosing not to. He would like to be respected for this position toward women. He is a realist.

    What Saint Stephen might be discovering: Here in the US, the land of so-called “freedom,” people are less bound by one broad code of behavior, and there is a strong push to justify/explain/rationalize and make generalizations about all types of behavior. If you can throw some stats around, too, you can get your generalization to pass for an unassailable truth. Which lots of people here in the US want to do in support of the same cliched, unimaginative ideas about male/female relationships. These folks are obstructionists.  

    What’s missing: The understanding that we are much more than a hackneyed stereotype of our gender. Lots of men (perhaps Saint Stephen is one) is insulted by the suggestion that he is hoping to stumble upon love while in blind pursuit of physical release. And lots of women are  interested in men for only reasons of physical release. Further, our needs/wants from others change over the years, and so would our ways of relating. I am an idealist.

    What shouldn’t surprise any of us, though: If a guy talks like a dog or hangs out with guys who act like dogs, he is giving his tacit approval of that behavior. He shouldn’t be surprised, then, if women condemn him by association. He needs to walk away from/stop talking like men like that, instead of trying to be one of the boys. Likewise, if a woman wants an equal relationship with a guy then she needs to put her feet where her mouth is and walk away from these cliches without looking back–not engage. Let’s be activists.  

  27. 27
    Helen

    To poor Juliet, I offer this advice: move out of New York. I don’t mean to cast aspersions upon that city… but it sucks in so many ways, and is overrated in almost every other.
     
    For women, it’s especially hard, as what Michael #7 said is right: there are far more single women than single men. NYC women make themselves absolutely beautiful, fashionable, smart, and accomplished in every way imaginable. But in some ways, they have to. They have no other choice if they want a relationship, let alone a date. They also have to put up with hookups to a certain extent because of the skewed female-to-male ratio and the sheer competition. It’s sad, because these women are amazing and would be catches nearly anywhere else in the world.
     
    I grew up and first entered the dating life in east-coast metropolises. Then I moved midwest (where I found hubby) and was shocked at first, in the sweetest and best way possible. Men were paying for dates. Men were polite and chivalrous. They were down to earth, manly, gentle. Not sophisticated and schmoozy, but I never cared for that type anyway. Hub is of the same stock.
     
    I don’t mean that the men who grow up in the midwest are inherently superior to men living in NYC. I also don’t mean that dating is perfect here; it’s rife with problems no matter where you go. What I do mean is that there are different expectations surrounding relationships in different locales, and that it is a lot more comfortable for women out here. In turn, that level of comfort brings out our relaxed and feminine sides, which I think is also more appealing to men.
     
    So, Juliet, if you come out here, you can find multiple quality men in a snap who would find you datable and matable. It’s not as exciting, “cultured,” and frenzied as the Big Apple, but life is pretty sweet. (If you want to keep your current job, though, that’s a whole different complication!)

  28. 28
    Goldie

    @ Helen, as an immigrant, I’ve had the worst luck dating in the Midwest. (then again, I haven’t tried anywhere else). While I can connect pretty well with transplants from other states, I’ve had the absolute worst luck with the guys in my age group (40s) and up, who were born, grew up, and have lived all their lives in the same area they’re living now. They are so not used to being around “foreigners” that they see me, not even as a different class of person, but as different species. I find it pretty revolting. Oh well, from what I understand, Juliet won’t have that problem. Have to add, from what I’ve seen, guys in their 20s and 30s do not seem to have that attitude, which is good. 
     
    But, yeah, they all do pay for dates, that much is true.

  29. 29
    Soul Sister

    @Saint Stephen, out of curiosity, would you mind telling us how old you are and how long you have been in America?  I am only asking to get a context of your perspective.  I know that my views have changed greatly through the years and that all of my feelings and thoughts at any time of my life were very valid for that time, but they may change with life experiences.

    In my early 20′s (college) sex was for fun. In my later 20′s, I was husband hunting and I found a kind man who was similarly educated, similar background, similar core values, and most important, I knew he would be a great father. 20 years later we divorced but not because we married for chemistry and it disappeared but exactly the opposite!  We had some chemistry, but not enough to provide the kind of passion I hoped for and I missed it…greatly!

    Today I am 50 and I am very self sufficient, therefore in a relationship I am looking for two things:  fun and passion.  Both of these are a requirement.  There is a very odd thing going on (my own experiences as well as stories from my girlfriends): men in their 40′s and 50′s are having issues getting erections or finishing.  WTF?  (Evan, any comment on this?  This is a hot topic among my friends and we are very confused…it cannot be age, they are too young!! And this is an attractive group of women, we know we can turn a man on).  And there is no way I am going to get I involved with a man who cannot physcially perform.  There is a big difference in doing “to” me vs. doing “with” me. It is simply not acceptable and I am absolutely going to make sure everything works before I get emotionally attached to any man.

    And my experience has been that we may have all these rules and expectations that we say we want, but when you meet someone very special, lots of those rules fly out the window and sometimes you do just have to take a chance with your heart.  I know too many people who had sex very early on and stayed together, and too many people who waited and ended up splitting.  It is a bit like gambling, and sometimes you just have to go for it.  :-)

  30. 30
    Goldie

    @ Soul Sister #29:
     
    “There is a very odd thing going on (my own experiences as well as stories from my girlfriends)…”
     
    Yes. Yes, there is an elephant in the room! Worse, some guys use it as a reason to push the woman into getting exclusive fast, because, you see, he performs so much worse with a condom on, the poor thing – so much worse, he just can’t deal. And by exclusive they mean, not a meaningful relationship, but getting together at his place or your place roughly once a week, depending upon whose kids are at the ex’s this weekend. How fun.
     
    I cannot thank you enough for your comments on this thread, every one of them spot-on. If you were in my area, I’d buy you a drink :)

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