Invasion Of The Sperm Snatchers

Several online articles have appeared recently regarding “sperm snatching,” including this one on Big Think. It cites a column in the Daily Mail by Liz Jones as well as another post on Big Think about sperm for sale. The author tackles the concept of Dynamic (or Time) Inconsistency as it relates to rising number on deceptive pregnancies: it is the economic concept that preferences can change over time. What may seem like the optimal choice in period one (not wanting the father’s money or support during pregnancy, for example) is not necessarily the optimal choice in period two (after the baby is born).

According to the Daily Mail article, a 2001 survey showed that 42% of women would lie about their contraceptive use if they wanted to get pregnant and their partner did not. Author Jones describes how, over the course of two relationships, she snuck into the bathroom in the middle of the night in order to inseminate herself using sperm rescued from condoms, despite the fact that both men had made their unwillingness to become fathers very, very clear to her. She tried to sperm snatch, but was unsuccessful.

In Big Think’s related article E-Sperm For Sale: Man Not Included, writer Pamela Haag discusses the sperm trade, and how children are “the new spouses,” the emotional and romantic anchors of many a modern family, NOT men. She ultimately advocates for effective male contraception since sperm snatching is becoming more rampant.

I’m disgusted by this concept of sperm snatching, but hey, I’m not a woman trying to get pregnant. Would love to hear your reactions below.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Fleur

    The judgment out there is intense!

    Let me share a couple more anecdotes.  There was a guy who was my friend, and in between relationships he and I would hook up. One day I asked if he wanted to have a child together. He said no. There are a number of reasons why he said no that have to do with his own life (not that I’m a degraded immoral person as many of you think.) We have been together a couple of times since. Once he threw the condom out himself. The other time he had a towel waiting and wiped away his own sperm. He took some responsibility for his human tissue and disposed of it properly. Those of you who don’t do that run the risk of someone taking it plain and simple.

    Two of my children were born from a marriage. We both discussed, wanted and tried for kids. He was a great dad until he decided he hated me for leaving him. For six years he has made my kids’ lives a living hell. He is a nasty awful father. Planning, agreeing and disclosing our intents and actions did absolutely nothing to ensure a happy home or peaceful childhood for our children. People change. People tell you what you want you to hear. I trusted this man and he couldn’t live up to our agreement. Making an agreement is no assurance that the agreement will be upheld. He was in the top two percent of wage earners last year and doesn’t pay child support, but he pays his attorney handsomely to get out of it. How anyone could think these two awesome kids who have had this sucky dad are better off than a child I plan for and pay for on my own is nuts.

    The idea that I want to be a single mother and not spend $1500 per insemination (which is on the cheap side – my gyno gives me a discount) should seem like a fair and reasonable idea. I’m not asking for money from any man who didn’t agree to have a child with me. What exactly is your genetic code worth? Nothing. If I borrow it to mix with mine, it’s no longer either of ours. It’s the child’s. The one that I’m raising and I’m paying for and the one that you don’t even know about. So properly dispose of your tissue or get over your attachment to your “code”. 

  2. 32
    Fleur

    oops, forgot to respond to Mike…

    Dude, sperm utilization is NOT rape. Are you seriously implying that dipping my finger into your sperm and putting up my own vagina is in any way analogous to me raping you? REALLY?  

    I’m horrified by the possibility that you actually believe this.  

  3. 33
    AnnieC

    Stealing sperm is wrong, but honestly what did people expect? Women want babies, men want sex. (and vice-versa).Problem is, we deceive others to get it both sex and babies. Another good reason why there were “rules” around this kind of thing in the past because people are inherantly selfish, and will hurt others for what they want.

    I have very little sympathy for a man or woman who chooses to have sex, and then grumbles about the end result either an STD or pregnancy. Use your brain for goodness sake.

    I’m really starting to think contraception was a huge mistake. People have no responsibility when it comes to sex these days, or the end result which is a child that needs a family. We behave as though we can do whatever we want with impunity.

  4. 34
    Saint Stephen

    Micheal17 said:
    Fleur #14. WOW. I am glad I never came in contact with you. Talk about morally bankrupt.
    That’s “Bullshit”- Just as Mike’s first sentence. People’s moral ethos differs as individuals. Going by my standard, folks who do indulge in premarital sex are morally bankrupt. Given such, it will be the case of one morally bankrupt person condemning another. Talk about Hypocrisy.
    If the woman is comfortable being a single mum- isn’t trying to drag the man into fatherhood- against his wish, then i still see nothing wrong with that. Just a case of conflicting interest.
    Man= wants to have pleasure- without responsibility.
    Woman= wants to have a baby.
    In the end they both get what they want. I see a win win situation.


    Micheal17 Said:
    If there is a child in the world with my genetic code, then I am the biological father.
    What does it matter if you aren’t been compelled to help raise the child. Children still grow without having a father. Stv jobs had a child he apparently denied for twenty something years- it didn’t stop the child from growing. How much is your genetic code worth? Just one “normal” baby.

  5. 35
    Greg

    Fleur,

    You were the one that left your husband.  Of course he is going to be upset.  It doesn’t sound like you need to be having any more children.  It doesn’t matter if you can afford them.  You need to be able to offer emotional stability too.  However, it doesn’t sound like you are very stable. 

  6. 36
    Jenna

    Mike@28: Believe me, there are many, many women who are just as sick of the traditional marriage scene as men are. Your comment seems to indicate that you think that all women are hell-bent on getting that ring on their finger. As someone else pointed out on here, the people who are not interested in getting married tend to find each other. People who want to be married find each other. Sounds like the sperm stealers aren’t really too interested in getting married; they’re interested in having children. There is no pressure nowadays for a guy to marry the woman he got pregnant unless it comes from inside of him. Which means that he’s being a victim to a sperm predator. Not a good thing at all. But, as someone else pointed out, it is not as violent as rape, and probably not as common, so don’t go equating the two.  

    To all: I would gander that if you added up all of the kids throughout history who were not “raised” by their fathers–meaning the dads were absent either physically, financially, or emotionally–you would have an awfully high percentage of kids raised by the “single mom.” What a fantasy this Ozzie&Harriet thing is. It shocks me how people so willfully deny the realities they see around them or that they experience themselves in pursuit of this fantasy. Just shocking.

  7. 37
    Mike

    Yes Fleur, im not taking it back. Im equating it to the act of being violated, turned into a parent against your will and being subjected to the full force of the law to enact by force punitive measures against the man to pay for a conception he clearly had no intention of having and took steps to avoid, or had no say in the matter whatsoever. The links below should suffice to make my point.
    http://chicagofamilylawyersblog.com/2010/12/are-unwilling-sperm-donors-subject-to-child-support.html

    http://www.salon.com/2000/10/19/mens_choice/

    http://www.childsupportguidelines.com/articles/art199903.html
    I especially like the story of the man who was drunk raped by his wife, or the underage boy sexually assaulted by the older babysitter, and both forced into a life of servitude by the power of the state.
    Those who steal sperm because they can’t find a willing partner to commit to them and put up with their BS is not the fault of men. You are not privileged nor do you have a right to a child, only in your diseased mind do you think that. Nor are you willing to go the legal route and pay for the process of legal artificial insemination. No, you resort to theft. You are no better than a man who forces himself upon a women because no woman will willingly sleep with him yet he feels he is entitled to having sex. So yes, i call it an equivalent to rape. And to hell with you if you don’t agree, i don’t give a damn.
    I look forward to the day men can take a pill, or go for painless reversible vasectomies and reclaim our reproductive rights and our biological and paternal futures. A future when men can choose when they are ready to be parents with people they trust. No more ‘oh the pill failed’ or other nonsense.
    Until then guys, toss your rubbers in the toilet, or make sure she swallows every last drop.

  8. 38
    Jenna

    Mike@37: The men you talk about are in the unfortunate position of having to prove that they did not offer their sperm willingly, that they were coerced or deceived into having unprotected sex, and repeatedly, with the same woman (because one act of intercourse rarely leads to pregnancy, and women don’t know any better than men do if they will or won’t conceive from any particular act of intercourse). Seeing as most women don’t find it all that hard to find men who are willing to have unprotected sex with them, this argument is going to be hard to make. No one will believe it.

    But let’s say for argument’s sake that a case like this goes to trial. All the opposing lawyer would have to do to win is to fill the jury with women–because no woman in the world has not had some guy pushing her for sex without any thought of the consequences, without even asking if she were protected. I would say that practically every single woman has had this experience, whereas very, very few have “stolen” sperm. Also, no guy would be fit for the jury because all either lawyer would have to do is to ask them during voir dire “did you ever–even once–have sex with a woman without using a condom, without knowing if she were using any birth control?” And if he were that hypothetical guy who has always been 100% responsible toward his partners and had his sperm stolen, opposing counsel would not allow him on the jury.

    But it sounds like you have a mission. Get out there and tell guys to use condoms, dispose of the condoms properly, and push for a contraceptive pill for men. Believe me, you would be doing a great service for the majority of women, who are very tired of most men’s irresponsible attitude toward the consequences of sex and their cluelessness about how conception happens (women can’t get pregnant at will and we don’t have some mysterious sixth sense about when we can). At the same time you would be punishing the would-be sperm stealers, who are a ridiculous minority of women. I say ridiculous, because most men are all over themselves to offer their sperm for free. 

    You might want to suggest, too, that men offer oral in exchange for it and avoid coitus altogether. Another way that a guy can make sure he’s protected from the power of that voracious, sperm-hungry egg.  

  9. 39
    Mike

    Jenna,
    I too am tired of men failing to own up to their real responsibilities when the decide to go in raw and throw caution to the wind. I do want men to have this ability, and if men had the same birth control options as women (pill, noninvasive) i’d say there would be NO excuse for men. I gladly welcome the responsibility, as most men should. It would fix this mess up lickity split. As you say, if so many women are so loathe and careless to let guys blow their loads in them completely unprotected, i think the problem goes deeper than just my crusade. But what we’re talking about here is someone being deceptive and using sperm produced through a normal sex act which was performed with the intention of AVOIDING pregnancy. You don’t get a blowjob expecting her throat to connect to her womb. Common sense.
    Lets differentiate tho what ‘all over themselves to off their sperm for free’ means. If it means achieving climax orally, or for any purpose that deviates from an express desire to inseminate into the vagina for the express purpose of procreation, then one should reasonably assume it isn’t an open invite to use said leftover genetic material to create a child that was 1. unwanted 2. unplanned for by both parties and c. legally and financially fucks over the ignorant party.
    I am pretty sure no woman (and correct me if im wrong) would abide a future where genetic cloning were made available, and men started rumaging through your garbage looking for your used tampons so they could clone you in the hopes of creating a compliant sex plaything. You’d be mortified that someone is using YOUR genetic material you so casually discarded into the public landfill for some nefarious purpose you had no say in and no choice in preventing and which may have legal ramifications you are unaware of. Not a pleasant future is it?
    And believe me, i preach to guys to offer oral. It’s my fetish and i love to offer it because i enjoy it so damn much and love seeing a woman get off multiple times. Am i that rare of a male because i choose to want to pleasure the person im with? What is this f’n world coming too.

  10. 40
    Mike

    @Saint Stephen #23

    “If a woman wants a family and she keeps encountering men who don’t share her mindset- she might be tempted to “take the bull by the horn.”

    “If a man wants to have sex and he keeps encountering women who don’t share his mindset- he might be tempted to “take the bull by the horn.”

    Great argument.

    As men are not (i repeatedly hear this from Slutwalk) entitled to a woman’s vagina whenever the mood strikes, so too is a woman not entitled to childbirth simply because she wants it.

    Modern technology has advanced and given women the appropriate tools to seek out alternatives if they cannot find a suitable mate. Even then it is still NOT a right… one can try, and yet may still fail due to infertility, miscarriage, etc..

    You have NO right have a child by any means necessary. You have no right to steal bread from an individual, even if he has no intention of eating that bread. You are commuting a crime, and a stupid one at that considering you have the option of going to the food bank and getting bread. What is wrong with you people who see nothing wrong with this/these women?

    It is not the fault of any man, and you’re perceived injustices are no excuse for this kind of reprehensible behavior. Simply unjustifiable and makes you look like a pathetic person.. and not the pity kind.

  11. 41
    Goldie

    I don’t understand. If the woman raises the child on her own and never contacts the man again, for child support or otherwise, then what’s the harm? I see no one suffering in this situation. Yeah, possibly unethical, but a crime on par with stealing or, better yet, rape??? Not in my opinion.
     
    I do not, BTW, appreciate the analogies with rape. It cheapens the rape, which is, as I understand it, a physical and/or psychological assault that leaves the victim traumatized for life. Exactly how is the man traumatized?
     
    I have female relatives and acquaintances who, back in the 50s and 60s, went out and got pregnant for the sole purpose of having a baby. The fathers never found out. The women didn’t have to sneak around and steal sperm, as guys didn’t use protection much in those days. No harm came out of it. The women ended up raising well-adjusted children, who went on to become successful adults and have children of their own. I cannot for the life of me see what was so bad about this.
     
    I do agree, though, that “the male pill” is necessary, for a variety of reasons. Though, personally, I won’t probably trust a man to always use one, and will continue to take precautions on my own.

    1. 41.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I didn’t want to weigh in, but…

      If a woman steals a man’s sperm and later demands child support, she is hijacking his life against his will. That is why it is being compared to rape – not the physical trauma, of course, but the lifetime commitment to supporting a child that he didn’t want with a woman that he doesn’t even like or trust.

      If it’s your body and you can do whatever you want with it, similarly, it’s his life and he should do whatever he wants with it. He shouldn’t have to spend the rest of his existence with a child with half of his DNA, either supporting that child or wondering about that child. Bringing a life into the world should be a mutual decision and it’s extremely one-sided to think that a man should have no say in the process.

      would hope that there’d be more sympathy for men here.

  12. 42
    Michelle

    I think it’s a disservice to raise a child without an active father in their life.  Fathers are important.  So one says no one is hurt, but I would say the child is hurt primarily.

    Further, a child is a human being, not a possession or thing.  It’s a pretty important decision to bring a child, another human life, into this world.  If a man is not consenting to his sperm being used to create a new life, then that’s pretty immoral in my book.  Whether it’s today or back in the stone ages.

  13. 43
    Jenna

    MIke@39: I’m with ya almost 100%. I would say that it’s also reasonable to believe that if a guy isn’t using a condom, he probably doesn’t care if he becomes a father or not and might even secretly be hoping for it. Because you gotta wonder what is going on in the minds of these guys who go around having unprotected sex. And if someone’s going to clone me using tampon residue, more power to ‘em. That would be way weirder than trying to inseminate yourself from a condom, so I suspect the future for the cloner would be much bleaker than mine as the clonee.

    St. Stephen@40: If a guy doesn’t want a child he should be using condoms. Period. It is not the woman’s job to make sure that your life works out the way you want it. If she wants a baby and you don’t, then you sure as heck better be the one making sure that it doesn’t happen. She has a right to want one just as much as you have a right not to. And if you’re stupid enough to stick it into someone who isn’t in agreement with what the ideal outcome of your sexual encounter would be, you may just find yourself in a situation you don’t want to be in. Men, don’t give your power away!!!

    This is not rape and not even an equivalent. Rape is an act of violence or coersion (giving in under threat of force) against a person’s body. It is not an act of “stealing” bodily fluids that someone left lying around. 

    Goldie@41: It is simply amazing how men trivialize rape against females, isn’t it? They put it on par with stealing something that the female is supposed to give up anyway.

    When it’s against males, though, the whole world comes tumbling down (e.g., Penn State).    

  14. 44
    Jenna

    I agree that it should be a mutual decision. Which means that there should be mutual responsibility for making sure it doesn’t happen. Be honest here–how often is it that the responsibility for birth control is shared? Or that the guy accepts all of the responsibilty instead of fobbing it off on the woman? In a dating situation most women are lucky if the guy even asks if she’s on the pill or using something! The best guys are the ones who just whip out the condom and put it on without asking. You have no idea how many points the guy gets for that.

    I think most women on here don’t identify with the sperm stealers and so have no sympathy for the guy outrage over it. It’s a little paranoid, if you ask me. If there were more guys whipping out the condoms I’d have more sympathy for the weirdo situation and be more understanding of the paranoia. To me it’s like this: Guys think they can get a free ride when it comes to sex because it’s easy for them to have a good time and they don’t have as many complicated decisions to make about it–way fewer physical and social risks. Females grow up knowing that at some point their life is going to be highjacked by a pregnancy, and they spend a lot of time thinking about it, either with anticipation or dread or fear or longing (all sorts of emotions there, guys, FYI). Some women just accept the inevitable and figure that if the guy isn’t concerned, she isn’t going to be, either. She’s ready, she can handle it. So whatever. Guys seem to assume that women are responsible for giving them what they (the guys) want, and that what they want goes. Well, in this one area, guys are very vulnerable. Be as mad about it as you want. Won’t change a thing. Because if a woman wants a baby, she can have one. If you want one, you have to find a woman willing to give you one.

    But if this weird hypothetical situation gives men even an inkling of what it feels to be violated sexually, then I’m all for them thinking about it long and hard and even starting to think about sexual violation from a female’s POV. Maybe they’ll become more responsible. When you’re responsible you can spot a crazy woman a mile away and she’ll be more inclined to go after the easy targets.  

    1. 44.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Poor logic, Jenna. In your post, you just threw around a bunch of hypotheticals that had NOTHING to do with the original question (men should wear condoms, men expect to get sex, men take no responsibility, men should think about rape from a woman’s perspective) This post was about women who steal sperm to impregnate themselves, unbeknownst to men, presumably against his will.

      Your points about men taking responsibility for sex and birth control, while fair, are completely irrelevant to the morality of the discussion at hand.

      Long story short: two wrongs don’t make a right.

      Unless you’re going to make the argument that because some men have sex, impregnate women and don’t take responsibility, that women SHOULD be allowed to steal sperm, keep the baby and have him take responsibility for something that wasn’t his decision. Are you taking that stand, Jenna?

  15. 45
    Greg

    @Evan

    Of course no sympathy for men.  Modern women are taught that men bad, and that women don’t have to be responsible for anything.  Thankfully most women don’t believe that nonsense.  But a number on here do. 

  16. 46
    Mike

    @Jenna 43
    “I would say that it’s also reasonable to believe that if a guy isn’t using a condom, he probably doesn’t care if he becomes a father or not and might even secretly be hoping for it.”
    Conversely one would assume it’s reasonable to believe if a guy does use a condom, he probably does care a great deal about avoiding becoming a parent, which is what the initial post of some condom inverting Jezebel was all about, and the fact that some women seem to tacitly support, and even justify this kind of atrocious behavior.
    And believe me Jenna, i’m sure your attitude would change if there was something men could do with your genetic material that you found to be a violation of your being and forced into legal repercussions in which you had NO RECOURSE.
    As Evan rightly points out.. if the shoe was on the other foot, women would be up in arms.
    The rape analogy serves 2 purposes. 1. it’s about someone having to deal with the consequences of being violated at the biological level and 2. to make women imagine a position they would find intolerable (as many Christian conservative legislators would like to impose down south) that is to have women who have been raped FORCED to carry the child to term and deal with the lifelong consequences of that act. The same in reverse as a man will have to deal with the lifelong consequence of a women creating a life using his genetic material in which he had no say, no decision making, and which the law will declare HIS responsibility no matter under what circumstance it was procured, legally or otherwise.
    And everytime anyone continues to insist this doesn’t matter, i care less and less for you, your position, or your blather about one not being equivalent to the other.
    I reiterate… i PRAY for the day when men have access to safe effective non invasive birth control of their own. ONLY then will the playing field level out. As the old saying goes… it takes 2, so if you want a kid, prove to be worthy to mate with, or go get the free stuff given out voluntarily at the sperm bank while it’s still viable. I’ve heard that will be in danger of paternity suits shortly as well. Once that happens, sperm banks will cease to exist. But at least false paternity will be a thing of the past as men will choose for themselves when they think it’s the right time to try for a kid. No more ‘oopsies’.

  17. 47
    Lora

    I would have to say that not only is it wrong and disrespectful to the men involved but also the child. One day the sweet baby is going to grow up and want to know where his/her father is and why he isn’t a part of their life. I think it is incredibly selfish of these women not to think of the person they are bringing into the world under such duplicitous circumstances.

  18. 48
    Saint Stephen

    @Mike Said (#40)
    “If a man wants to have sex and he keeps encountering women who don’t share his mindset- he might be tempted to “take the bull by the horn.”
    Great argument.
    As men are not (i repeatedly hear this from Slutwalk) entitled to a woman’s vagina whenever the mood strikes, so too is a woman not entitled to childbirth simply because she wants it.
    Mike, if a man desperately wants to have sex, there are “whores” for that. And if a woman desperately wants to have a baby- there are sperm banks for that. But most people wont take the honest route to get it. Why pay when you could get it for almost free? And as such, men deceive women to get sex. Women deceive men to make babies.
    An analogy. A man throws away an unwanted car, and another man takes up the car, beautifies it and puts it to beneficial use. I consider the first man a complete waste, if he comes back to condemn the second man for what he apparently discarded. If your sperm means so much to you, by all means preserve it.
    Mike- get off your moral high horse.

  19. 49
    AnnieC

    @48

    I agree with a lot of what you’ve said in terms of stealing sperm. If it is that deliberate, wether or not the woman goes for child support, then that is appalling.

    But when I hear comments such as “A man will finally be able to choose when he has a child, with male birth control” I want to donk my head against a wall. You already have that choice. You have alway’s had that choice. It’s just not a choice, that most men want to deal with. You can choose to NOT have sex, until you want a child. Problem..is solved.

    Of course suggesting this, is horrifying to so many men and women today. And yet, it is the most rational way to view sex. It can result in a child,  therefore don’t have sex, until you can take care of a child. No worrying about lies, no worrying about being used, having sperm stolen. Problem solved if you deal with the consequences of what you do, before you do it.

    And seriously, how many women steal sperm out of a condom?

    @those that say what’s the big deal? It’s alway’s a big deal when you create a human life. It’s a big deal to the child as well. Why do we treat such serious matters, as though they are just a bit of fun and a personal right? 

  20. 50
    Mike

    @St. Stephen

    Mike- get off your moral high horse.”

    Sorry, don’t feel like it. You were perfect right up to this part > “But most people wont take the honest route to get it. Why pay when you could get it for almost free?”

    Then you had to go muck it up by saying, oh men lie for this and women lie for that. So you basically say ‘Well people lie all the time so just accept it’. That’s why we have politicians.

    Your car analogy is flawed. It’s not a fully formed car. It’s the possible car that could be. I’d consider a patent to be more suitable. Steve Jobs comes has an idea for a phone and patents it. It doesn’t exist yet, it’s only in his head. Now he can tell people about his idea all he wants, he can show people diagrams and schematics, he can even leave a prototype out on the table and hope he doesn’t lose it. It’s still his intellectual property. Just because someone rummages through his trash and decides to make a phone based on those designs doesn’t mean Stevie can’t come back and sue him into oblivion for making something using his ideas.

    What these women are doing is creating something they have no right to create because they don’t have the consent of the owner of that material that is required to make the full product. You want consent, go to a sperm bank, pay for invetro, whatever. But this is theft plain and effen simple. The article talks about a woman stealing discarded semen that was obviously intended to end up NOT to be used for procreation (otherwise why use a condom?) The more you fight this, the more callous and downright ridiculous you end up looking. So keep fighting it if you want.

    @AnnieC 51

    Donk your head all you want. You wouldn’t believe how many gullible men believe their gfs/wives/sig.others that they are on the pill 99.9% effective and low and behold, they end up in that 0.01%. There are many statements in life that are based on certain truths like ‘hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’ or ‘if a woman wants to get pregnant, she’ll find a way’. Colloquials such as these aren’t borne of thin air so i would surmise the prevalence of ‘ooopsie’ births is higher than you want to believe. And that means there are many dads out there that weren’t ready and didn’t choose to be dads but had that decision made for them surreptitiously.

    Your other option of don’t have sex… well wasn’t that what the advent of the PILL, women’s lib and the sexual revolution was all about? To grant women the freedom from unwanted pregs and to be able to enjoy their sexuality without the fear of parenthood unprepared? Isn’t that what the whole abortion issue is about.. to not burden women with the consequences of an unplanned conception? You don’t see a huge double standard here? Wait.. you’re a woman, i guess you wouldn’t. Cake and eat it too right?

    How many women steal sperm from a condom? Even 1 is one too many, but i suspect it may be slightly higher than that, tho it’s easy for you to brush off to the side since it obviously isn’t a ‘womans issue’.

  21. 51
    Goldie

    I guess I shouldn’t have participated in this discussion, because it is pretty personal to me. My close relative, who helped raise me, did it in the 50s. It was shortly after WWII and men were in extremely short supply, so my relative had no chance of getting married and starting a family. As for raising a child without a father, again, it being after WWII, most families were missing a father in those days. The child’s father never found out, and has probably died of old age by now, not knowing he has a son. The son is a great person, quite successful, with a family of his own, and I’m pretty sure doesn’t regret being born. I understand that here and now, the situation is different, but even so, I cannot take sides in this discussion because I kind of side with both sides. Abstract people in the news are one thing, your real family is another, I’m in no position to throw stones here, you guys go on ahead without me.
     
    Seriously though, I assume the principle most of us live by is, Do not do unto others what you don’t want done unto you. What’s so criminal about doing absolutely nothing to the other person? he’s none the wiser. As far as he’s concerned, he had a one-night stand some time ago and that’s it. Not that I would ever do it myself, but hey, I have enough kids and don’t want more…

  22. 52
    Jenna

    EMK@46: Logic has nothing to do with the issue. Psychology does. Why do women impregnate themselves without the guys consent? Because they can. No one is going to leap up to defend the male victims of this because men have been abusing their sexual prerogatives toward women since the dawn of time. If you can’t understand the complicated power struggles about sex between men and women, can’t help you.

    Mike@48: As others have pointed out, you do have access to safe, reliable birth control. Condoms and abstinence. That you don’t find these two options acceptable is on you. Female birth control options aren’t that great, either. Just wait till you actually get that pill and see the effects on your body. Then get back to us. 

    StStephen@50: Even if the woman you impregnate is a prostitute, you are still responsible for the child. But if you are having unprotected sex with a prostitute you might have bigger issues than unwanted pregnancy.

    AnnieC@51: I think that men usually separate sex and the conception of a child. Women don’t have that luxury. Hence the shock and outrage when women dare to present this reality to them. We’re supposed to do all the work to hide the reality of what sex leads to so that they can have their fantasy. The other part of the fantasy–that what men pay in child support is in any way enough to raise a child. A single mom takes a bigger hit financially than the guy both in real terms, relative terms, and in career opportunity costs and has to do all of the day-to-day unpaid labor to raise a child besides. Most guys are clueless about how much work caring for children is because they so rarely have to do it. Even a conscientious dad, who maybe changes one diaper a day, thinks he’s contributing equally–and then wants a big round of applause for it. Clueless!

  23. 53
    Lisa

    I don’t see anybody talking about the welfare of this child.  When he or she asks about his dad, is this sperm-stealing mother going to say “sorry honey, he didn’t want kids with me so I took his sperm.  He doesn’t want anything to do with either of us.”  There are already too many messed-up kids out there.  DO NOT add to that!  It is beyond selfish and cruel!!

  24. 54
    Ruby

    Wow, some men are really protective of their sperm! Of course, when a guy wants sex, many of them are more than happy to leave questions of birth control completely up to the woman. Personally, I’m more concerned about the much higher number of kids who grow up without fathers involved in their lives at all, due to the father’s abandonment

    Here’s some interesting stats:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=1666l7871l0l9415l35l33l0l6l6l3l339l6129l0.4.20.2l26l0&q=cache:S-qh1hiHvn4J:http://withoutafather.com/facts.php+statistics+of+children+growing+up+without+fathers&ct=clnk 

    1. 54.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      It’s pretty remarkable how otherwise reasonable women can justify such a selfish act, under the guise of “Well, men are bad, too!” Ruby and Goldie, in particular, I expected more from you. You think it has NO effect on a man if he has a child running around with his DNA? You think is has NO effect on a man if he can one day be called upon to pay child support? And Jenna, you’re still making this sound as if the act of female sperm snatching has ANYTHING to do with male responsibility. It doesn’t. If a man discards a used condom and a woman fishes it out of the garbage to impregnate herself, leaving the man with unwanted offspring, it’s simply selfish and immoral. And no amount of “but MEN do X” is going to justify it. So please, stop with these straw man arguments about child support, birth control, abstinence and diapers. They’re irrelevant. Sperm snatching is wrong, no matter how many things men do wrong to women. You’d have to be pretty biased against men to believe otherwise.

  25. 55
    Goldie

    Evan, I apologize, I have already explained how I am biased for personal reasons. Basically I’m in a position where I cannot agree with, say Mike, without implicitly calling my dear late great-aunt a rapist. Seriously, if this were a court case, they wouldn’t probably let me sit on the jury because of a personal bias.
     
    I still think that the rape analogy was too much, though.

  26. 56
    Ruby

    EMK #57

    I’m not saying I think “sperm snatching” is a good thing. But I think the likelihood of anyone being successful at this would be almost nil. As the Big Think article states, condoms are full of spermicide, and sperm loses its potency fairly quickly. Basically, I feel like “sperm snatching” isn’t much of an issue, although I will say that women should be honest with their partners about whether or not they are using birth control, and trickery is wrong. Also, the rape analogy doesn’t apply and is insulting to anyone who has actually experienced such a violent, criminal assault.

  27. 57
    Jenna

    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/rules-of-the-blog/

    (This is what happens, Jenna, when you don’t play by the rules of this “stupid” blog. No one’s minimizing rape. But a few women are particularly callous to men’s needs. Sorry, but this conversation is over. )

  28. 58
    Jennifer

    I think there is a WORLD of difference between having unprotected sex during a one night stand and taking sperm from used condomns and bedsheets to try to impregnate yourself with.

    In the first case, the argument can be made that if he cared *that* much about not becoming a father, he would’ve used protection and/or discussed protection with his partner in the first place. Noted.  In the second case, no argument can be made that the woman stealing the sperm is anything but treacherous and unscrupulous.

    Some men actually care a lot about having kids and are very choosy about who they procreate with- which is one of the reasons they use protection. Not knowing if they have kids running around (let alone being hit for child support later) would not be okay with them and shouldn’t be. It can ruin the rest of his life. I really wouldn’t have thought there’d be a lot of room for arguing otherwise.

  29. 59
    Fleur

    My understanding is that since the early ’90s, mothers’ rights groups have raised $0 in their efforts to advocate for their rights to their children. On the other hand, fathers’ rights groups have raised over $50,000,000 in that same period to advocate for their rights in courts throughout the country. The outcome of this advocacy has been that fathers see their children more regularly and as a result they usually pay child support more regularly. Wealthy fathers who were the ones paying to lobby for change to begin with often pay proportionately less because they can afford the savvy lawyers to fight against support orders and they can afford craftier CPAs to adjust their tax returns or set up their companies for maximum preservation of their wealth and the least child support output. Many middle and lower income fathers though do get hit with big support orders compared to what they make and many can’t afford to heavily pay for attorneys to argue against these support orders. At the same time, most moms will argue that dads aren’t paying enough of their share. For either side, single parenting is hard, and the current laws often tend to confuse rather than ease things.
    The simple solution for men to avoid being victimized by this scam of a legal system is to protect your sperm. Not having sex is the only way to assure this. Only having sex in a monogamous trusting relationship where you have talked about the consequences is still a gamble, but it’s your next best shot at protecting yourself.
    My job is primarily centered around counseling single and often young new mothers. I hardly find any who with a newborn in tow have the time or resources to be hunting men down through our broken court system for support. Eventually they may get around to it years down the line, but these women are not having babies to get funded by baby daddies. Their decision to procreate on their own (however that happened for them) was NOT driven by money. They wanted to be moms. 

    On the other end of the spectrum, I have had more than a few moms come to me frantic when their children are one or two and their baby daddies return. These women typically honorably disclosed pregnancy status in early pregnancy and the dads took off. Once the mom and baby are settled and that first hard year is over, the dads show up again, demand time (sometimes 50/50 time with a child who doesn’t know them at all), often demand support from the mother and usually get exactly what they want from the courts.

    People use their kids as pawns and it’s disgusting. I am not condoning any of that kind of behavior from either parent. However, if there was a mutually consenting sex act between two people that resulted in a baby either because the man willing gave his sperm or just left it and didn’t dispose of it properly or some scenario in between, then I believe we should stop judging the woman who gets pregnant and decides to mother this child. 

    And if the glorious day ever comes when cloning is safe, I suspect that people are going to have to stop being so attached to their genetic material. If a fallen hair can be scooped up by someone and made into a child, we’ll have to become less attached to our otherwise useless body parts. I’m sure at that point in the future all kinds of unpreventable “stealing” of genetic material will go on that the government won’t be able to control. People are then going to have to realize that “your” baby is the one you raise, not the one that has your genetic material. Dad’s created the current financial fiasco in the court system that makes them pay support, but without that being the case (which will have to change once cloning is common) most of the men on here would probably not be so up in arms about this sperm snatching scenario. If a dad could just say to a woman who shows up with a kid on his doorstep, “Yeah I’m not really into being a dad, sorry, but good luck with that” and there were not financial repercussions for him, men like Mike on this forum might not be so up in arms. But this is where the men lobbied to be and so they either need to deal with it or change it.  
    The way I see it, there are three conversations going on here. One is that the “dad’s” financial and social future may be harmed by the current laws that force him to pay for unwanted children. Two is the potential moral harm done to biological fathers who did not intend to become fathers. Three is the psychological harm done or not done to the offspring. Depending on the scenario of the woman impregnating herself without express consent, each of these three concerns may or may not play a part in the eventual outcome. With every choice in life, there are risks and rewards. It seems that it is the individual woman’s decisions in each separate circumstance that will determine the outcome of that situation. This is not a cookie cutter scenario. Some women may not ask for child support, while others might; some men might be appalled and scarred by an unintended pregnancy, while others might not care at all; some children grow up just fine in a one-parent household, while others become the product of statistics that have them at lower measurable levels of success. Each scenario is individual and separate. The one thing that I feel all of us writing are hoping for is moral people making decisions that work for the greater good. Some of you writing think it is black and white and that no good can come from certain decisions. I disagree. You can never understand or know someone else’s story if you haven’t lived it. While discussion is a healthy and interesting form of working through questions, each person who lives through these scenarios should not be judged when we are only postulating.

    1. 59.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      “The simple solution for men to avoid being victimized by this scam of a legal system is to protect your sperm. Not having sex is the only way to assure this. Only having sex in a monogamous trusting relationship where you have talked about the consequences is still a gamble, but it’s your next best shot at protecting yourself.”

      “However, if there was a mutually consenting sex act between two people that resulted in a baby either because the man willing gave his sperm or just left it and didn’t dispose of it properly or some scenario in between, then I believe we should stop judging the woman who gets pregnant and decides to mother this child. ”

      Sorry, Fleur. As a man, I wouldn’t think that I should have to dispose of my sperm properly, since that’s what the condom is for. If a woman is such a sociopath that she would consider fishing a used condom out of the garbage, turn it inside out, scoop out the semen, and attempt to inseminate herself, I guess it’s safe to say that I wouldn’t have seen it coming.

  30. 60
    Mike

    “some men might be appalled and scarred by an unintended pregnancy, while others might not care at all; some children grow up just fine in a one-parent household, while others become the product of statistics that have them at lower measurable levels of success. Each scenario is individual and separate.”

    Basically she’s advocating that playing Russian roulette is ‘ok’ because it won’t kill the participants each and every time.

    Sorry Evan. I’m going to withdraw from this thread (no pull out pun intended) before i break one of your blog rules and start calling these women other names. When the best you can get is “I’m not saying I think “sperm snatching” is a good thing.” well it’s pretty much hopeless.

    I’m pretty sure you understood I wasn’t making a 1 to 1 equivalence saying the act of stealing sperm was identical to the act of physical sexual rape. I’m pretty sure on numerous occasions I qualified my remarks with the feelings of being violated, powerless, and having something done against your person, your will, and being left with both an emotional trauma and legal repercussions, not to mention a LIFE that is a part of who you are. Women with a serious feminist agenda only see what they want to see and try and claim that I said what they’re claiming. And the one fact they enjoy omitting is that rape is a criminal sexual act because there is NO CONSENT, yet have no compunction about creating a life using someone’s biological essence without their consent. Silence speaks volumes.

    The fact that we’re even talking about men having to ‘protect’ their discarded sperm (or have to worry that she didn’t swallow < i can’t believe i’m typing this) is very disturbing. The fact that some women came out in defense of this was just jaw dropping. I want to applaud and commend all the women on the blog who did denounce this behavior and have a conscience.

    Anyways, I enjoy your blog and your advice very much. Keep up the good works!

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