I’m Dating A Passive Beta Male. Is His Behavior Normal?

I’m Dating A Passive Beta Male. Is His Behavior Normal?

Hi Evan,

I love your blog and Why He Disappeared. It can be a tough pill to swallow at times, but I appreciate your no-nonsense advice. I’ve had to learn the hard way, that my “go-getter” attitude does not translate well in the dating world. Not doing anything in the beginning stages of dating tends to drive me crazy.

I’ve been dating a beta-male for about a month and a half. He’s a total sweetheart and for the first time in a long time, I feel very safe. He’s kind, attentive and affectionate- when we’re together. He communicates with me daily, mostly through text message, to which I always respond warmly.

Here’s where I’m struggling: I find myself wanting to take over and take control with him sometimes (planning things mostly). I am resisting this urge as I’m trying out your mirroring concept.

My question: We’re texting everyday, but he’ll wait FOREVER, (in actuality, 5-7 days) before asking to see me again. What gives? Is this a downside of dating a typical beta (i.e., no initiative) or is he just not that interested in me? Do I continue to utilize patience or should I move on?

Thanks, Evan!
-Michelle 

Dear Michelle,

Thanks for reading “Why He Disappeared – The Smart, Strong, Successful Woman’s Guide to Understanding Men and Keeping the Right One Hooked Forever”. Glad it turned on a few light bulbs in helping you realize how a few of your behaviors have been ineffective in forging a relationship with a man.

But I have to say that if I had to write the whole thing again, I would have taken a few pages to put in a caveat:

This advice doesn’t work for every single woman in every single situation with every single guy. Basically, WHD was written for alpha females who want to date alpha males. It was a way to open your eyes about how the men you’re the MOST attracted to don’t necessarily want to date you in return.

While you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

And in the absence of giving yourself an entire personality-ectomy, the smartest thing you can do is a) be aware of some of your tendencies to dominate and b) find a partner who is cool with them.

You, apparently, have done both of those things, Michelle.  But while you’ve adjusted your take-charge attitude, you haven’t adjusted for the fact that you’re NOT dating a take-charge guy.

Take charge guys are the ones who will always follow up quickly, make plans, make the first move, and claim you as their girlfriends.

Beta guys are the ones who have more kindness than confidence. They’re not nearly as assertive. They’re so passive as to be, well, almost feminine in nature. They are not going to put themselves on the line for rejection until it’s 100% clear that you like them. They would sooner wait to get a written notice in the mail that you’re really, truly interested in them than to follow up too much and potentially make you uncomfortable.

Is any of this hitting home, my friend?

So you’re not wrong to curb a little bit of that domineering side. Where you’ve gone astray is that when you’re with a beta male, you’re ALLOWED to be more alpha. “Doing nothing” as I describe in WHD works with take-charge guys because those guys don’t need you to take charge. Your new guy DOES.

The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

So instead of extrapolating my advice to apply to every man, make an adjustment based on the man you’re actually dating. The good news is that, if he’s a true beta, he’ll be THRILLED that you’re taking control.

When you’re done reading this, give him a call to find out if he’s around this weekend. You’d like to cook him dinner. I suspect that’s all you’ll need to seduce him into becoming your boyfriend. And if, in fact, he’s just not that into you, you’ll figure that out quickly, too.

For all of the women who are reading this who would not be able to tolerate such behavior from your guy and prefer a take-charge man, do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of “Why He Disappeared”. You’ll be very glad you did.

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Comments:

  1. 61
    Zara

    Beta males annoying :( do not like passive men. I’d rather be a lesbain and have more shoes

  2. 62
    Goldie

    Frimmel 61
     
    I was wondering the same thing. But on second thought, I do notice that many people like to be type A at work and type B at home, or vice versa.
     
    Personally, in theory, I like working together as a team, both at work and in my personal life. But in reality, in my personal life, I’ve had to be the one in charge and drive things. Maybe one day I will find the egalitarian partner I’m looking for.

  3. 63
    Scott

    As for kiki @51 saying “silence equals yes”, I see this as a risky message to send to guys.  If a guy foolishly believes this is what most women intend, we will get even more cases of “date rape”.  Especially of women too drunk or stoned to overtly object when he “makes his move”.  The concept that “silence equals yes” is in essence supporting the position of men who say “she got drunk and came up to my room, and she never said the word no, so how could I possibly have interpreted that as anything other than consent to sex?”

  4. 64
    Shaukat

    @ Goldie #54
     
    The last part of that description concerning hypnosis is a reference to Ross Jeffries I think, who is pretty much a fraud in my opinion. That said, I don’t agree with what seems to be your premise, that seduction is unethical or that seducing someone amounts to using them. There is nothing wrong with guys learning certain skills to better interact with people and making themselves more attractive by enhancing their confidence and appeal.
     
    Suppose a guy goes to a bar, approaches a woman, uses some banter, humor, and charm and the two of them end up sleeping together that night or shortly thereafter. Has he used her? I don’t think so, because very few women still believe that sex is the equivalent of a commitment. In my opinion, it would not amount to manipulation even if he knew for a fact that there was no potential for a relationship with her.
     
    In fact, the only way I would say that a man is using a woman for sex is if it’s understood, because of a conversation, that she only sleeps with people who are looking to make some kind of a commitment, and the man, knowing he has no intention of committing, pretends to be on the same page as her simply to get sex. I think this kind of situation is pretty rare, and it would probably be rarer if fewer women thought like Rose, who apparently believes that a man should continue footing the bill well after the fourth or fifth date because it makes her feel “feminine.” If fewer women thought this way then fewer men would continue dating women they had no real long-term interest in solely to get some kind of ROI.
      

  5. 65
    Rose

    Scilence does not mean yes, some people when feeling threatened will freeze and say nothing.
    Also drunk and stoned people can not give consent so this is rape.

  6. 66
    Sparkling Emerald

    I’m not quite sure what Kiki means by silence = yes.  If there has been some ongoing dates I think silence = passive agressive way of blowing me off.  So I’ll just be off and onto the next one.    If I like a guy, he should be able to tell by the way I kiss, by my enthusiastic “yes” when he makes plans with me,  or if I really can’t go when he asks, my sincere, “I would really like to do x, y, or z with you, but that date/time doesn’t work, but this or that date does” and my end of the date, “Thanks, that was really fun ! ”  I promptly return missed phone calls, and if his name pops up on my caller ID, I answer if I can, and greet him enthusiastically by name.  If he doesn’t get that I like him with those signals, then there’s not much more for me to do.  I want a guy with SOME testosterone.  I don’t want a neanderthal, but if a guy thinks I am laughing at his jokes and walking arm in arm with him & making out with him for some reason other than me liking him, well, it’s probably better that he let’s it fade.  Either he’s really not that into me, or he hasn’t a clue how to read people. 
    If I don’t like a guy, I take his “silence” with a sigh of relief, and assume he’s also not interested.  I feel no need to tell him on NOT interested, if hasn’t told me that he IS interested.  (and, no “I’ll call you” is not expressing interest, I think by now we all know that is a blow off)    If he indicates interest, which I don’t feel in return, I give him a polite “Thanks for coming out to meet me, but I don’t think we are a match”. 
    I have had a few guys blow hot and cold this time around and in the past.  They also get the next.  I don’t want to waste my time trying to unscramble mixed signals.

  7. 67
    JoJOe

    I don’t like men to pay for US to have a date. Especially a first date.
    I much rather see how interested he is.  So… I suggest an outing, his choice or mine.  Something that has a ticket to it.  
    Like Zip Lining, so fun and you both get to show off your abilities.
    “Do like zip lining, you can get “your” ticket in “advance” online.  If you have anything else in mind, let me know”
    Now I sit back and wait.  Will he get tickets in “advance” for himself alone even. This will let me know if he’s serious about setting up a date with at least a weeks notice, reliability level test.  It also lets me know if he’s into physical activities, which tells me alot about how he’s going to be in the bedroom.  It also gives him the op to change the event, allowing both beta’s and alpha’s to feel comfortable. 
    If he backs out and asks for a drink or a coffee.  Nope, lazy, looking for the quick route.  Waste of my time.  If he can’t put up with a human for a couple of hours doing some activity, he’s not of value.  Glad to find out before I spent MY time preparing for HIM.  
    The setting up of a date has to let one know if he’s of value.  They can ogle all they want, peacock all they want, flirt all they want.  But it’s the lady who will make the final decision.  As in the animal kingdom so in queendom.  (have to laugh, “queendom” is not a recognized word.  
    A dinner date is fine, talking, candle light, but the waitress test and his table manners should be left for when you both have decided to date again. It takes the heat and price off him.  She’s only getting what he thinks she wants so he can score if he’s into her.  Which really when you think about it is all that can come of a dinner date.  Men are not generally wanting to sit around and small talk all night unless they see a babe across the table they think may sleep with them.  I know that sounds terrible.  But from what I’ve experienced, it’s pretty much the end or not end result. 
    I’ve had more success in RS’s when there is fun to be had,  a challenge to meet, a chance to demonstrate yourself through skill or your ability to laugh through lack of skill.  
    I had a date take me mini putting where it’s lit only through black light. We had a riot dated several times after, but just buds as it turned out.  No worries, no pressure and we’re able to talk nicely about one another to others because of positive experiences.
    I’ve had screaming matches in restaurants.  Stuck seated in chairs with nothing to do but eat and talk.  OHhhh sooo borring and such a place for contention and stress.  And this ACROSS the table stuff.  If I second date a man, i sit beside him for dinner.  ALWAYS.  Why, because we’re out AGAIN and I like him.
    All in all, it’s even steven with fun and activity.  I’ve rebuild a motor with a date over a case of beer.  Oh, that one got all greasy… fun fun.. 

  8. 68
    Jenn

    Scott@64: I think that most guys now know that a drunk or stoned person cannot consent to sex. You’d have to have been living under a rock these last couple of years not to have gotten that message. KiKi isn’t talking about sex. She’s talking about having strong romantic feelings for a guy and being too shy or afraid to tell him about them. Guys do the same thing when they are really interested in someone.

  9. 69
    Clare

    Goldie 55
     
    I agree with you.
     
    Women are feeling their way just as much as men. We also learn by trial and error, we also sometimes don’t know where we stand or where we’ve made a mistake/overstepped a line until men tell us. we fall victim to the confusion and heartbreak and fear of rejection every bit as much as men.
     
    No one is immune from the uncertainties. You can learn more as you go along, you can become a better partner and more effective communicator, you can understand the differences between the sexes better… but there still is such variation among people, and each coupling comes with it’s own energy and dynamics.
     
    I am firmly of the belief that it is less about fault-finding or putting responsibility on the other, and more about understanding and acceptance of what works. And this is a life-long journey. Eventually, God-willing, you end up in a relationship where you are comfortable with each other’s ways and you have an effective marriage/relationship, but I believe this takes time.

  10. 70
    Kiki

    @Karl R60,
    David T 59
    Scott 64.
    Guys, really, what I meant, and clearly asked, is “do you need signs to move the relationship to the next level”. The RELATIONSHIP, assuming there is already A RELATIONSHIP. Like, move from seeing each other once a week, to twice a week, then to seeing each other every day, then to moving in together, allowing her to drive your car of whatever level of comfort you are capable to have with her at the very maximum  :-).
    Silence clearly does not equal yes if you have just met a girl at a bar and she is too drunk to speak, and I do not even want to touch on the subject of date rape. please.
    Just to recap, based on what you are saying, if a woman is dating a beta male, she should be giving plenty of signs to help him overcome his fear of rejection. If he likes her, that will give him the confidence to not worry about sabotaging the relationship. If he doesn’t like her (enough to progress further to whatever the next logical step would be) what will he do?
     
     
     
     
     

  11. 71
    Goldie

    Shaukat #65
     
    Wow. So for a man to approach a woman in public that he’s never seen before, and to talk that woman into an ONS, is now called “better interacting with people”? Better than WHAT? Clearly I’m too old for this stuff, lol

  12. 72
    MilkyMae

    The problem with beta men is that they want relationships to be mutual from the start.  That’s a high hurdle for women to jump over. 

  13. 73
    Joe

    @ m #23:
     
    b) So how about one bottle of wine? :-p  (Never mind that the wage gap is largely mythical.)

  14. 74
    Omega

    Instead of cooking for him, tell him to come over to cook with you. If you are an alpha you can handle that, and you’re dating for a long time.
    It will give you tons of feedback on your dynamics with him.
    If you are ‘alpha+’ tell him to go get the groceries together.
     
     
     
     

  15. 75
    Karl R

    Kiki said: (#71)
    “Just to recap, based on what you are saying, if a woman is dating a beta male, she should be giving plenty of signs to help him overcome his fear of rejection.”
     
    Essentially, yes. This is true for a number of shy, under-confident, less assertive men. And to be perfectly clear, my analogy is valid during the early stages of the relationship. (I’m fairly certain that your fear, loss of sleep, etc., continues well beyond the first date. The same is true for men.)
     
    This thread exists because Michelle and her boyfriend are seeing each other about once per week, but she’s not sure whether he wants a more serious relationship. It’s equally possible for him to have the same uncertainty. Think about what signs would convince you that the man was interested in getting more serious. Those are approximately the same signs that would convince the man. (People are different, so there will be some variation in this.)
     
    As an alternative to sending signs, a woman can initiate a conversation to make herself perfectly clear. For example, “I’d like to see you more often than once a week.”
     
    Kiki said: (#71)
    “If he doesn’t like her (enough to progress further to whatever the next logical step would be) what will he do?”
     
    There are two likely scenarios. Either he’ll ignore the signs of encouragement and continue the casual relationship (because it’s what he wants), or he’ll break up because he’s feeling pressure to have a more serious relationship than what he wants.
     
    Direct conversation runs a larger risk of coming across as overeager/pushy, but it has an advantage of being more difficult to ignore.
     
    There’s also going to be some difference depending on whether they’re having sex. (Michelle didn’t mention that detail.) A guy is more likely to continue pursuing sex indefinitely without making any effort to go any further.
     
    Even in this case, a verbal suggestion will add a lot of clarity. If the man wants a more serious relationship, he will jump on that suggestion with enthusiasm. If not, his response will be lukewarm at best.
     
    MilkyMae said: (#73)
    “The problem with beta men is that they want relationships to be mutual from the start.  That’s a high hurdle for women to jump over.”
     
    I’m not sure that I understand what you mean. Could you explain that better?
     
    Goldie asked: (#72)
    “So for a man to approach a woman in public that he’s never seen before, and to talk that woman into an ONS, is now called ‘better interacting with people’? Better than WHAT?”
     
    I know a 62 year old man (never married, no serious relationships) who will spend weeks/months slowly trying to befriend a woman so she’ll like him well enough that she’ll say “Yes” when he tries to date her.
     
    When I started to date my wife, he’d been trying to date her for months. I blew past him like he was standing still … because he was standing still.
     
    Being able to initiate a one-night-stand would represent a major step forward for this man.
     
    Goldie and Clare, (#55 & #70)
    You’ve pretty much nailed this.
     
    While this thread revolves around what the woman can/should do (since Michelle is a woman), there is no shortage of advice for shy, less assertive men on this topic.
     
    My advice for shy, under-confident, less assertive men:
    It is possible to rush too quickly into a relationship and blow your chance. However, if you’re a shy guy, it is more likely that you’ll ruin your chances by acting to slowly (or not at all).
     
    With experience, you develop an understanding of the normal pace of relationships. (More accurately, it’s a range of normal paces.) As long as you’re somewhere near the middle of this range, you’re not going to be sabotaging your chances by moving ahead.
     
    In most dating situations, you either have an excellent chance of succeeding, or no chance of succeeding. If you have no chance, then it doesn’t matter what you do. You could do everything perfectly, and the woman will still tell you that she’s not interested in having that kind of relationship with you (or breaking things off in another way). This happens to the men who are successful at dating too. They just know how to roll with it.
     
    If you have an excellent chance of succeeding, you can screw up multiple times (as long as your screw-ups aren’t too outrageous) and still succeed.
     
    Instead of getting locked into analysis paralysis by trying to find the right time to make your next move, just find a time to make your next move. Unless you’re wildly outside the pace I mentioned before, it’s sufficient. You will either succeed (because you had an excellent chance of getting further) or you will fail (because you had no chance of getting further).
     
    Most of the time, you have no chance. That’s normal. Don’t let it discourage you.

  16. 76
    Frimmel

    Goldie in #72: re better than what?
     
    Better than being home alone with internet porn.
     
    I’m not shy. I’m not a particular extrovert but I’m no sit in a corner and not talk to people guy. I don’t have a problem approaching women. However speaking to women and speaking to women in ways that make them want to have sex with you are rectangles and squares. No matter whether you’re looking for Miss. Right or Miss Right Now.
     
    George Clooney probably has good “game.” However his doesn’t need to be that good since well he’s George Clooney. His game is already starting at a higher level because of his status and looks and wealth. Joe Average like me needs a lot more “game” because well I’m not George Clooney. I don’t have a lot of status and looks and wealth. Most guys are not George Clooney. My charm often comes across as “player” because I don’t fit the checklist of everything a girl is looking for in a guy. I hear way too often, “I like you more than I want to.”
     
    Oh and by the by I’m in agreement with Shaukat in #65. The last paragraph is on the money.
     

  17. 77
    Frimmel

    Karl R in #76 asks MilkyMae said: (#73)
    “The problem with beta men is that they want relationships to be mutual from the start.  That’s a high hurdle for women to jump over.”
     
    I’m not sure that I understand what you mean. Could you explain that better?
     
    My guess is she means he has to first prove he’s into her before she’ll step up and show she’s into him. See “traditional gender roles” for more information. :-)
     
     

  18. 78
    Goldie

    Frimmel 77
     
    “Better than being home alone with internet porn.”
     
    Like I said, I must be getting old, because this time around I’m starting to seriously question it that a random warm body in my bed is any better than internet porn on my screen. When I was just out of a bad 18-year marriage, yea casual sex sounded new and exciting. Three years and two relationships later, the novelty has worn off. I’m no longer able to understand why I would want to use a human being as a slightly better substitute for my hand, when I have two perfectly functioning hands. YMMV.
     
    Karl R, my guess is you passed that 62yo guy like he was standing, because your then-gf, now wife, was not interested. Believe me, guys, when you’re interested in us, we know. You don’t need to spell it out. Granted, we cannot come right out and say, Come on Jim Bob, we both know you’re interested in me, so why don’t you stop beating around the bush (literally and metaphorically) and ask me out already? – but we do know it when Jim Bob wants to ask us out.
     
    My advice for shy, under-confident, less assertive men:  …”
    This is awesome advice!
     
     
     

  19. 79
    sarahrahrah!

    I’ve been dating a shy guy for the past couple of months and was getting to know him before that.
    What Evan said about shy guys not wanting to be rejected or perceived as “pushy” totally rings true to me.  This guy and I had been communicating fairly regularly after having done an activity together, but he didn’t ask me out.  I told him that I really enjoyed getting to know him better during that activity and that I hoped that we continued to communicate.  That was all it took for him to ask me out and start dating.  Even after that, it took quite a while for him to kiss me.  Again, I followed Evan’s advice and looked at the rest of his behaviors and got the sense that he definitely liked me.  Instead of writing him off, I was patient and waited for him to make the first move.  I’m glad that I did because now I feel that he likes me (that it wasn’t just me making the first move and him responding) and he acts with masculine confidence with me. It is great!  
    The only thing that might be different between my experience and the online poster’s is that once I gave him some definite positive feedback, he responded to me and did so consistently.  I did use mirroring once we started seeing each other, but he definitely took charge.  If he hadn’t, I’m not sure if it would have worked.

  20. 80
    Frimmel

    Okay, Goldie here’s a gotcha question for you. You know we want to ask you out but you can’t say “Ask me out.” So if there are two such guys that you know want to ask you out at more or less the same time are you going to go out with the one who does or does not ask you out?
     

  21. 81
    Karl R

    Goldie said: (#79)
    “my guess is you passed that 62yo guy like he was standing, because your then-gf, now wife, was not interested.”
     
    That was part of it. However, if he’d actually tried to move things forward at a normal pace, he would have discovered that she wasn’t interested at least four months earlier.
     
    In addition, he made one of those outrageous screw-ups very early on. He had a chance (not necessarily an excellent chance, but a chance) before he screwed up. My wife is attracted by intelligence and humor, and the man does well in both areas.
     
    Goldie said: (#79)
    “Granted, we cannot come right out and say, Come on Jim Bob, we both know you’re interested in me, so why don’t you stop beating around the bush (literally and metaphorically) and ask me out already? – but we do know it when Jim Bob wants to ask us out.”
     
    And if Jim Bob takes two months working up his nerve, then asks you to join him on an outing that’s not quite a date, then takes another month before finding the “right” moment to ask you on another not-quite-a-date …
     
    … are you gaining or losing interest in Jim Bob over the course of these months?
     
    If a person is capable of going from zero to ONS in one night, it means that he has the ability to go from zero to phone number in one night, use the phone number within 24 hours, get a first date within a week….
     
    For the 62yo man (and many more like him), that would imply a great improvement.

  22. 82
    Goldie

    Frimmel #81.
     
    It really depends on how I feel about these two people. I could go out with any one of them, both, or neither. Or a third, better, option may come along and I’ll go with that. One thing for sure – if, while a friend of mine is interested and is working up the courage to ask me out, a random person walks up to me in a bar and says “Nice shoes…” – I’m not going to choose this random dude over my friend just because he came on to me.
     
    I mean, I agree with both you and Karl – without a doubt, if a man is interested in a woman he knows, it’s better for him to say something than sit around and wait. He risks losing his chances if he sits around and waits. But this conversation started with pickup artists, i.e. people who, have the necessary tricks up their sleeve to go, like Karl said, from zero to phone number in one night with someone they don’t even know.
     
    I just fail to see how this approach can produce long-term results. And short-term results, IMO, are overrated.

  23. 83
    Julia

    Shaukut #65
     
    Suppose a guy goes to a bar, approaches a woman, uses some banter, humor, and charm and the two of them end up sleeping together that night or shortly thereafter. Has he used her? I don’t think so, because very few women still believe that sex is the equivalent of a commitment. In my opinion, it would not amount to manipulation even if he knew for a fact that there was no potential for a relationship with her.
     
    I am going on a limb to say that the woman he charms was already receptive to sex and he was just the lucky guy. When women have ONS they know what they are doing, they are having sex. A woman is not being used if she’s chosen to partake in an act. No one is duped or manipulated as long as there is mutual consent.

  24. 84
    Frimmel

    Goldie, how it could produce long term results would be dependent on the particular pick-up artist in question. While there are a bunch of nihilists in the PUA community they are most certainly not entirely wrong. To a degree they’re teaching guys how to read her mind and do the right thing. And that is something you need to know to get a ONS or to keep a relationship healthy for the longer haul isn’t it?
     
    The PUAs are just reminding everyone that biology hasn’t quite caught up to the state of the culture.
     

  25. 85
    Karl R

    Goldie said: (#83)
    “But this conversation started with pickup artists, i.e. people who, have the necessary tricks up their sleeve to go, like Karl said, from zero to phone number in one night with someone they don’t even know.”
    “I just fail to see how this approach can produce long-term results. And short-term results, IMO, are overrated.”
     
    I’ve gone from zero to phone number in one night. Another time I got a phone number over breakfast. (I sat next to an attractive woman at a diner.)
     
    I agree that the odds of getting long-term results this way are rather slim. The odds of any initial attempt resulting in a long-term relationship is rather low. If you’re going from zero to phone number, it’s less likely that you have anything in common, so the odds of long-term success drop.
     
    But I think I’m looking more at the big picture. 25 years ago I lacked the confidence to ask a woman out. 15 years ago it was still extremely difficult. Eight years ago I still wasn’t confident enough to try to get the phone number from a stranger.
     
    Six years ago I got a phone number from a woman the second time we ever met. (I was in a relationship the first time I met her, so I didn’t ask for her phone number then.) Even though it didn’t work out due to circumstances, we were well suited to each other. Based on that, I’m going to say that getting phone numbers from strangers can lead to a successful long-term relationship.
     
    More importantly, it takes confidence to make the attempt. That confidence is going to greatly increase a man’s success in all dating situations.
     
    Goldie,
    Part of your opinion seems to revolve around your lack of information (one wikipedia article, which seemed really low on detail). You might want to take a look at Evan’s review of PUAs:
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/what-i-learned-from-pick-up-artists-who-wrote-the-game/
     
    Neither Evan nor I are fans of the PUA technique, but there is some value to it. There are men in their 20s, 30s (even 60s) who have as little confidence and clue as I had as a teenager. They could benefit from the advice, even if it has some flaws.

  26. 86
    J

    Goldie I think you meant going from stranger to ONS? Cause going from stranger to phone number in one night is quite common and par for the course ( it’s what folks that aren’t online do :-))

  27. 87
    SunBurst

    @JoJOe #32 
    THANK for “Good House Keeping” post. This is the VERY thing that I am dealing with. I started to get sprung and spin out of control. I found Evan’s web page and it saved me, but this post. My gut knew what you were saying was true. I am no longer waiting for him and when he does come around (and he will), my full life will be in full swing. It’s interesting, this very guy is what I have needed to let my guard drop. I am now safe within myself, so I can be vulnerable. It is a huge power posituon for me and one that protects me. I am no longer worried about being abandoned And I trust, so his game or play or whatever he is doing is all on him. 
    Reading you post was the point where I exhaled….thanks
     

  28. 88
    TheForgottenOne

    I’m just learning about this whole ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ male personality thing, but based on what I’ve read it looks like I’m a beta.  
    “Hi, my name is Joe, and I’m a beta male.”   “Hello Joe, welcome to beta males anonymous”.  
    My ex ussed to complain that I would never take the iniative when it came to planning the weekend’s activites or what our next date activity would be.  In truth I did take the intiative quite a bit, but honestly it’s mentally exhausting to try and come up with something new and interesting to do again and again.  It’s not that I don’t mind taking the iniative — even most of the time — but I really don’t want to do it ALL THE D*MN TIME!  It would’ve been nice if my ex would have taken the iniative every once in a while and tried to come up with a new or interesting date idea.  
    Secondly one of the reasons why I like to date is because I like to explore new interests and experience different activities.  If I am the one that is always making the plans then all I’m doing is things that I know and enjoy, which is fine, but half the point of dating is learning about what the other person likes and the other person enjoys doing.  Maybe I want to learn about what they enjoy doing for fun as well.  That’s why I would be thrilled if after a few dates a woman I really like would say “Hey I really like doing ‘X’, would you like to do it too?”  Yeah, I think I would and would probably really enjoy myself while learing ane experiencing something new and different.  That to me is what dating is all about.  Learning about other peoples interests and enjoying them together.

  29. 89
    Paula

    I have had this experience before.  I dated a guy who was all about talking consistently and spending time on the phone and texting, etc.  However, we saw each other about every three weeks if that – It was very odd to me.  I didn’t stop the rest of my life.  After a few months I did take the initiative and questioned what it was about and didn’t get much of a response – He didn’t seem to have a direct answer. So, I ended it. He seemed more offended and hurt by rejection rather than pushing back and fighting for me and clarifying his intentions.  Oh well… 
     While each person is different, my sense is that some guys lack the confidence in themselves to be able to participate in a full blown relationship. They enjoy having “someone” with whom to check in and enjoy a bit of communication and affection, but won’t take it to another level. As an alpha female (who would like to be less alpha), I think that some guys feel that we are a bit out of their league in some ways, but get a lot of energy from us.  I think some know that long-term that some of their ways won’t fly with us.
    It does take skill to establish and maintain meaningful connection. You never know what someone’s track record might be and what that may mean to current situation.  I agree with Evan about women hanging back a bit and letting things play out. That he woman can say “yes” if she chooses to what gets presented but not push.  People are always telling us about themselves through their actions.

  30. 90
    Stacy

    “I’ve had to learn the hard way, that my “go-getter” attitude does not translate well in the dating world. Not doing anything in the beginning stages of dating tends to drive me crazy.”
    I’m sorry but I’m getting that expectations are already high because he fails to initiate every single date. I can see if it were a committed relationship and it feels as if he’s drifting away, but too much early on for some men is an over kill…Alpha/Beta/Omega, doesn’t matter, you will push him away.  Let him set his own pace and healthy boundaries. Some women need healthy boundaries too, not because we get sick of men, but because we also have a life outside of the dating world and need girl time.  It’s only been a month and a half. Give it a little bit of time before you expect to see him every other day. I know it’s hard when you really like someone. He’s making an effort so at least give him the benefit of the doubt, all is not lost.

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