My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man. What Should I Do?
I met this guy (he’s 53, I’m 43) on an online dating site, and our first and second date went so well, we slept together on the second date. However, the first shoe dropped right when we were in bed before the sex act. He informed me that he had slept with a woman just last week. THEN, he called me a couple of days after and asked to see me the very next day because he had two women flying in for sex, one right after the other, and he wouldn’t be able to see me for two weeks! Furious, I told him that unless he told the women to cancel their trips, it was over. He refused, saying plane tickets had already been bought, so I ended it. A few days later I get a few e-mails laced with anger, repeated phone calls and lastly, an e-mail asking me to forgive him, professing how he’d been doing nothing but crying since we last spoke and saying he’d made a mistake and wanted me back. And you guessed it, I was stupid enough to give this man a second chance.
We were in a relationship for 3 months and it turned out to be a living hell!
When I’d come over, he wanted to have sex FIRST. Whatever else we planned to do came after he got his rocks off. He started pressuring me.
He refused to divorce his wife (they have been separated for 6 years) who he shares custody of his 4 kids with. He told me he just hadn’t gotten around to it yet. It never happened.
Corinne’s guy is verbally abusive, selfish, and sexually unfaithful.
He still continued to take vacations with his wife and spend the holiday with her.
He started to become cruel and insulting to me. He got in my face one day and circled me during an argument and taunted me.
All the women he had sex with (including me) was done while his two teenage daughters and their friends were in the house, even in the daylight hours.
I would catch him frowning at me sometimes. He started to want to communicate with me only be e-mail. The phone calls lessened.
The final straw came when he refused to allow me around his young sons (who had recently come back from a vacation in Hawaii). He stated the reason was because I was selfish and it was always about, “me, me, me”.
At that point, I told him I was either to be included around his sons, or I wouldn’t be with him at all.
The one thing he loved about me was the sex. All throughout the relationship, he talked about how amazing it was for him. I believe that was why the “relationship” lasted as long as it did. So, Evan, what can I learn from this situation? That I was dating a loser and a jerk? Well, that I know. Anything else? Thanks!
Corrine
I have been in a relationship with this guy for eight years, four of which we have been engaged for. Before he gave me a ring, he cheated on me all of the time and that cheating sometimes included serious relationships. However, in the end though, he always seemed to be using the other girl for something that would benefit him, i.e. new clothes, new toys, drugs, clubbing, whatever. He promised me after I got the ring that if he ever doubted our relationship, he would ask me to take it off, as a sign that he wouldn’t cheat on me with the ring on.
 |
Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared. |
Do You Want to Attract the Partner of Your Dreams?
If so, sign up for my free dating and relationship newsletter and receive my free eBook, The 5 Massive Mistakes You're Making In Your Love Life - And How to Turn Them Around Instantly. Simple and effective advice to jumpstart your love life.
92 Comments »Filed Under Cheating
mic 1
Good looks (in absolute and relative terms) and/or a chemical (oxytocin) bond.
Jennifer 2
Evan,
First, I like the new look of the site!
Second, I don’t think it’s just a ‘self esteem’ problem. I think that phrase gets thrown around too often and it’s almost too easy. I think there is so much more to it. The common thread with these women, and women like them, is that they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior. Clearly not ideal, but acceptable. Their partner is giving them something, even if its no where near apparent to us what it is, that is critical to them, and they don’t beleive they’ll be able to find it anywhere else.
The only advice I can give these ladies is- change your mind. It’s possible to get what you need without dealing with all of these atrocities (cause really, that’s what they are). You won’t do better until you at least believe you can. Good relationships aren’t just for ‘other’ women. They are for you too.
The Seductress Within 3
Sad, sad, sad. Women who put themselves in these situations don’t respect themselves and do not believe they deserve better or could get any better.
It’s really that simple. And no, it’s not new information. But each one of those women after listing the various despicable traits of their “loves” actually feel the need to ask someone ‘what they should do’.
What they really want to know is, what can I do to change him, make him love and respect me, basically turn him into a completely different person so I can feel better that picked him?
We teach people how to treat us by the boundaries that we set and what behavior we accept. These are not victims. They volunteered for these pathetic relationships and can just as easily grow a backbone and opt out.
A-L 4
I’m just going to throw out a few ideas based on what I’ve seen friends and family members do.
Staying for the kids: There should be a male role model, studies show that kids from two-family homes tend to come out better, and the person may (or may not) actually be a good parent even if they’re a sucky significant other. So they stick around.
Normative behavior: They actually don’t know any better because in their families/social circles it’s normal for the male to cheat or to be physically abusive. They think that the normal, treats-you-well kind of guy seen in movies exists only in movies, so they don’t seek it out in their real lives. It’s so sad that my students think it’s normal that when someone imbibes too much that they’re going to end up beating others. Or when someone’s boyfriend cheats on them, it’s the other woman’s fault, not the boyfriend’s. Go figure.
Chemistry: They think that a romantic relationship must have the butterflies in the stomach, weak in the knees, heart racing sensation, and they don’t ever feel that with the nice guys. So they stick with the very bad boys who give them that feeling (when they’re not being abusive jerks).
Validation: If the jerk finally turns around and becomes a nice guy, then it shows they were right to spend so much time in a sucky relationship. But if they leave while it’s still sucky, then they consider that the whole relationship was a waste of time. Or, that they’ve done just enough to improve the guy for the next woman, but won’t receive any benefit themselves.
Low self-esteem: Even if they think good guys exist, they don’t think they’re good enough to actually get one to be interested in them.
Social standing/economics: Many jerks actually act like good catches in public, and a woman may not want to disrupt the fa ade of having a great relationship. Or, the woman has become economically dependant on the guy and feels as though she can’t do without his income (stay-at-home moms are probably particularly susceptible to this).
Sayanta 5
It goes without saying that I was horrified reading these stories. But honestly, what is there to say?
These women know there’s something seriously wrong with their situations (and that’s an understatement). They know they have serious emotional issues. And yet they ask you if they should ‘hold on longer’ and ‘what should they learn.’ They KNOW what’s wrong- they KNOW what you and everybody else who’s stable and sane is going to tell them. What other kind of answers are they looking for?
I had a friend one time who was being horribly emotionally abused by her boyfriend. Me and the rest of the world offered sympathetic ears. We told her to leave. We gave the guy dirty looks. We told her to get therapy. Guess what she did? She stayed with the guy and ignored everybody’s advice. Did she go to therapy? Hell no.
I want to offer advice and support to these women, but the thing is there’s nothing anyone can do. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. One day these women are going to (hopefully) wake up and find the strength to change on their own. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s too late.
And not to beat a dead horse, but the first woman’s story is the reason I stick to my ‘no sex before relationship’ rule- and even if the rest of the United States disagree with me, I’ll stand by it. At least I’ll have mental peace.
Robyn 6
“The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”
“People don’t change, their eccentricities just become more pronounced.”
Problem is, the longer you have been with some one, the more you have invested in a relationship (especially if you have children together), the more you feel it is “worth it” to reconcile/try to save the relationship. More so for women, than men. Effects of oxytocin etc., pressure from social conventions, “married until death do you part”, and often financial factors.
If you’re a stay-at-home Mom, with outdated work skills / no recent work experience, in the current economy I can see why you might be prepared to turn a blind eye to your husband’s misdemeanors in exchange for support/shelter/food etc. that you couldn’t nearly afford on your own dime (assuming you could even get a job).
Not a position I would like to be in at all.
Sayanta 7
Evan- I don’t know if my above comment fully answered your question, which was:
“WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH SUCH A TOOL?!”
well….I think we all know the answer to that, so I won’t go into issues of psychological childhood trauma, low self-esteem, etc.
But I think Pearl Jam said it best regarding the above women’s mentality-
“Better Man”
Waitin, watchin the clock, its four oclock, its got to stop
Tell him, take no more, she practices her speech
As he opens the door, she rolls over…
Pretends to sleep as he looks her over
She lies and says shes in love with him, cant find a better man…
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
Cant find a better man (2x)
Ohh…
Talkin to herself, theres no one else who needs to know…
She tells herself, oh…
Memories back when she was bold and strong
And waiting for the world to come along…
Swears she knew it, now she swears hes gone
She lies and says shes in love with him, cant find a better man…
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
She lies and says she still loves him, cant find a better man…
She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
Cant find a better man (2x)
Yeah…
She loved him, yeah…she dont want to leave this way
She feeds him, yeah…thats why shell be back again
Cant find a better man (3x)
Cant find a better…man…
Ohh…ohh…
Uh huh… (5x)
Ohh…
NIGHTRIDER 8
Dear Evan:
I was horrified while reading these horrendous tales of woe from such intelligent woman. What in the world is going through their minds? All the men involved with them appear to let the woman know right away that they mean them no good. Yet, the women continue to accept their sordid behavior. What gives here?
Evan, I know that you will give tthese women much needed advice. I just cannot believe what I just read! I am truly shocked that this type of subhuman behavior is still acceptable to some women.
Evan, I am learning so much from you pertaining to the dating scene. I am truly happy a friend of mine informed me of your wonderful site. As you can see, men and women really need to log into your site. I am now more aware of the games men can and do play during the dating process. Before I started reading your emails, I was not always sure about their intentions. However, your site has really opened up my eyes. A thousand thanks for your fantastic advice.
NIGHTRIDER
PS: SO HAPPY YOU FOUND THE “ONE” AND GOT MARRIED!! GIVES US SO MUCH HOPE!
satexaslady 9
I’m a LPC in Texas with a masters in marriage & family therapy & I have to say, Evan, you’re pretty damn good at what you do & what you say.
As for why these women and a whole host of others accept unacceptable behavio? There are many reasons & combinations of reasons. Their self esteem may be low to begin with, or it may be low in this particular area. It may come from messages they have heard all of their lives…some variation of “your worthless” or “you’ll be lucky to find a man”. Women in my parents genration (not all, but a lot) got the message that there was something wrong with them if they could not find a man & hang on to them. They were blamed, not their husbands when things went wrong in a marriage. Sometimes it’s more insidious than that. A woman meets a man. At first all is great, and then he slowly, quietly eats away at her self esteem an separates her from her family & friends. Sometimes these women are at vunerable points in their lives such as the loss of a family member, a break-up or divorce, or some other traumatic event. I had to deal some of it when I was in grad school. It’s hard to work with, because it seems that the answer is so simple, leave the %#&#@* (insert word here) but there is so much more involved. There has been some research done in the field of trauma. (And what is abuse, if not trauma) I’m not not really up on all of it, but it suggests that repeated exposure to trauma causes changes in the brain.
JuJu 10
You know, when I read some of the stuff on this blog, all my “problems” seem just laughable in comparison.
Well, you already know why they put up with this kind of crap – low self-esteem (most likely a result of abusive childhood) combined with lack or complete absence of self-awareness.
JNez 11
good or great sex has the ability to cloud someone’s otherwise rational decision making. add in insecurity due to being overweight or feeling otherwise undesireable and you have just the person willing to put up with or overlook abuse, infidelity & all sorts of other demeaning treatment from a partner. it’s really unfortunate, no one will end a relationship until they are truly convinced that they are better off without their partner than with them.
JNez´s last blog post…President Obama: Everybody Rejoice!
Jennifer 12
@A-L #4- Completely agree with your post, particularly the point about validation.
Mary 13
Just become everything you would ever want to marry…
Sayanta 14
Post #1-
“The common thread with these women, and women like them, is that they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior.”
Have they, though? Then why are they writing to Evan? Obviously they know something is seriously wrong, and it’s not acceptable.
I think it just goes down to this (well, not ‘just’ but one of the factors)- these women believe there aren’t better men in society (see my Pearl Jam lyrics)- and media, literature doesn’t do much to sway us from that fact. Do they want Evan to tell them not to worry, as soon as they leave a better man (forget ‘better’ because these men aren’t even good to begin with) will come along? Is it reassurance they want that better men are out there?
I wish that day would come when all women would rise up and refuse to take abuse and s-t from men like the above samples anymore, but I’m living in Dreamland apparently.
hunter 15
A-L’s paragraph on “Chemistry” is the core of most relationships, from what I am told. Kind of like seeing most “nice” women, they can be, boring….
Jennifer 16
@Sayanta #14- I agree with you. I say ‘acceptable’ because they have been accepting it, in most cases for years. agree that the reason they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior is because they don’t expect more (due to media, society, their own thoughts, etc.).
I think they are writing Evan because they are getting fed up and want their men to shape up now. It’s almost like ‘I expect to have to deal with b.s. for a while, but hasn’t it been long enough now?’
mic 17
JNez: according to many surveys, sexual satisfaction makes relationship termination unlikely.
That most heterosexual relationships in non-repressive societies are ended by women kind of suggests that social norms now have little to do with women letting men physically abuse them. With very young women (more naive and more sensitive to chemistry) an exception and women from certain circles another exception, perhaps. Purely emotional abuse – anyone know?
Maybe somebody can find a study that delves into heterosexual relationships. As you can see, in gay males, some of the reasons for tolerating violence are subtly or overtly related to attraction (“love”) and appearance.
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/GayMale_DV1.pdf
mic 18
Also, concerning chemistry and good looks, a cursory glance at research suggests that men who are low in testosterone are deemed less physically attractive and are less violent within relationships.
Sayanta 19
“I think they are writing Evan because they are getting fed up and want their men to shape up now.”
True. I think a lot of women, as everyone knows, try to change their men. But men know no one can change unless they want to and walk out. I’ve actually always admired men’s common sense in this regard.
Cilla 20
Satexaslady alluded to it, as did you, Evan, when you described the reality show contestants who had their SOs “trained” to act like door mats: it’s the insidious nature of the abuse. Most relationships with abusers don’t start out with overt abuse. It would be too ineffective, too much of a red flag. It’s the slow, steady erosion of self-esteem and support that allows the abuse to escalate with these couples.
Take one women who has had a traumatic childhood or upbringing where she’s constantly devalued. Add a couple of early bad relationships or a divorce. Now add to that a man who consciously or not, looks for vulnerable partners. He reels her in, then slowly, over months or years, starts the devaluing process all over again (but it’s easier now, because that’s the dynamic she’s used to). At first it’s just “negging,” little back-handed not-quite-compliments that are actually meant to make her question her appearance, her parenting, her cooking, whatever. Then it progresses to insulting her in front of other people, which is a test to see how much verbal abuse she might be willing to take. Of course, the negging has made her question her self worth, so she doesn’t fight back. Isolate her from her friends and family, so she loses her support system and starts to question her own judgment. Take away her financial independence. You now have the ingredients to make the toxic cocktail of angry verbal abuse (yelling, swearing, etc.), physical abuse (shoving, hitting, beating), and sexual abuse (rape, infidelity).
scorchin' 21
at some point you stop being a victim & start being a volunteer. If your stupid & blind enough, the volunteering starts at the beginning of the relationship.
starthrower68 22
Wow. I guess the obvious answer seems obvious if you’re not in their shoes. Perhaps you can be so close to a situation you can’t see things objectively, but there is nothing to do. Leave. That’s it, leave. And perhaps do yourself the favor of looking at why you wanted CHANGE HIM instead of LEAVING HIM. Once a tool, always a tool.
mic 23
Unfortunate strong possibility:
An attractive man gets more second chances than a less attractive man. Even third parties who might advise “Get out” probably think the better-looking fellow is more worth the effort. If someone were to run a picture-based experiment judging who is more likely to be an abuser and who is more likely to change his ways….
mic 24
By now, someone should have highlighted the controversial finding that men and women are equally violent in relationships, at least in frequency. Violence or not, it seems that at some point one has to assume responsibility. Then again, many relationships only end when an unhappy partner becomes attracted to somebody else. (Abuse seemingly “works” to discourage mate-poaching.) Probably for most people, attraction dwarfs logic. It doesn’t help that most people only are much attracted to a small pool coveted by many, which likely is especially true concerning women and is very clear in online dating.
thomas 25
Over the years, I have seen this play out time and time again. The woman gets out of a bad relationship and into one with a new guy. It last for a few years, then she moves into another bad relationship. I do not know why, but women who go from the bad guy to the good guy, well, they go back and seek, they seek, I will say it again, they seek the bad guy. I have seen it happen so many times.
I had a friend recently who got divorced because his wife thought he was boring. She wanted excitement and danger, not stability. She then went out and sought the abusive guy that he was not.
It is not always the women’s fault. Yet, when they do not change the behavior that got them their, it will continue.
I have heard so many stories in the past from some of my female freinds. They continue down the same path and do not change the men that they go after or who they let go after them.
I have seen a number of men in the same situation. They need someone to tell them what to do. I have seen men who are lost when they do not have someone to constantly tell how act. It reminds me of the movie, about Schmidt. The guy is lost and will not do anything for himself without his wife telling him what to do.
Shaun Eli 26
Maybe they’re writing to him because they think there’s actually a solution to their problems that doesn’t involve leaving. Something like “If you only did this one thing he’d change and be better to you.” And since nobody else has given them the magic solution they’ll keep seeking it elsewhere.
Or they want a sympathetic ear, because all of their friends long ago tired of listening to the same cries for help when their clear advice went unheeded again and again.
Lance 27
Dude, good people stay with douchebags SO’s for way longer than they should for a great many reasons. Sometimes it’s the sex, sometimes it’s laziness, sometimes insecurity, sometimes it’s fear. The question is how can we all do and get better, including the abusers and the douchebags in the emails above.
Lance´s last blog post…Filthy Butt Sex On New Years Eve
Alan 28
One reason might be fear – fear of change, fear of rejection, fear that this is as good as it gets. Fear can be a trong motivator (or non-motivator in this case).
mic 29
Thomas: studies have demonstrated that women’s preferences can change during the menstrual cycle.
mic 30
On that point, here’s an eye-opener (and just one of many at the site):
The Change Of Life, Hysterectomies, And Domestic Violence
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-43.htm
Corrine 31
Well, guys, I’m Corrine. Anybody got anything to say to me? I knew it was too good to be true and it was. This man came into my life touting poetry and promising me to “be a role model and influence to my sons as much as I would allow him to be around them”. Well, you all know how it ended. To make this story even worse, I have a master’s degree and was just admitted to a Doctoral program. I should know better! I treated him like a freakin’ King and this is how I got treated.
Corrine 32
Oh, does anybody, including Evan, think this louse will be back for the sex? I would really like to tell this piece of dung off!
Corrine 33
One other thing, and I know I may seem bitter. This loser didn’t have a job, has erectile dysfunction, and is wrinkled and going bald. I’m beautiful, educated, nice and loving. As stated previously, I treated him like a KING! and this is the thanks I get. His wide does/did NOT want him. She cheated on him with a wealthy man because he didn’t earn enough, then he disrespected me and our “relationship” by going on vacation with her and their children. She is pushing for the divorce and he still will not do it. It’s been 4 months since it ended and I’m still a bit resentful about how I was treated.
Michael Ejercito 34
And people think that it is hard to manipulate women…
Sayanta 35
Corinne-
I really don’t want to sound rude or anything, but I’ve got to know- why on earth DID you date this man? You’ve stated your qualities above, and I just can’t figure out what someone like you would see in him.
Was his poetry that good?
Karl R 36
Corrine, (#31, 32, 33)
In your original letter you asked, “what can I learn from this situation?”
I think you already know the answer. You saw a lot of red flags. Next time don’t wait to collect quite that many before you go. After the episode where you first ended it, you decided to give him a second chance. That’s your perogative. But you should have made it his second and last chance.
You said, “I treated him like a KING!”
Why? Was he treating you like a queen? Based on your story, it sounds like he was treating you like part of the harem by date #2.
In dating, your efforts should be reciprocated. If I write a lady a 1 page e-mail and she responds with a 2 line e-mail, then she’s not reciprocating. My next e-mail will be 2 to 4 lines. And this extends to more than just e-mails. If you’re treating him like a king, he should be treating you like a queen. If he’s not, stop treating him like a king.
If you really feel the need to tell this guy off, write a long letter telling him how horrible he is. Then BURN the letter. That way you can vent without resorting to acting out like a juvenile.
mic 37
Good body build? Nice voice? Chemistry? High sex drive + inhibitions lowered through alcohol?
Corrine 38
Sayanta, his poetry was good but, of course, it was all BS designed to lure his victims in. I continued dating him because he promised me a comitted relationship and said he was crazy about me. In trying to answer the question why some of us women fall for men who are obviously liars and losers, I grew up in a dysfunctional family and married an abuser. THough I know better, over my entire life, I have become used to people treating me badly. So, although my intellect knew I did not want that kind of treatment, in some weird way my psych was comfortable with it.
With this guy, he promised me that he wanted me in his life and would make me happy, that he was more “loyal than a puppy dog”. Haha, yeah, those are his actual “poetic words”. The things he promised never materialized, and he became bolder and bolder in his mistreatment of me. Michael is right, I was manipulated by a liar. And Karl, you are right as well. I saw the red flags. Those should not have been ignored.
This part may be a bit of a rant, but I have no idea how he thinks he was/is all that. He couldn’t sustain an erection for a prolonged period of time during our sexual encounters, so he was always done before I was. Not only that, but he is aging quickly, despite his idea that he is a jock. That means his erectile dysfunction will only get worse, not better. Lastly, he cannot and has not ever made much of a living. One day, I came across his resume where he stated he had a bachelor’s degree. Well, he had already informed me that he didn’t actually have the degree, he needed to complete a couple of classes.
Lesson learned I guess, but it did sting. Mostly because I allowed this to happen to myself by not heeding the reg flags that unfolded right before my very eyes.
The most hurtful thing was how he said he marriage was and had been over. However, near the end he refused to stop going on vacations with her and I was even deluded enough to continue seeing him when I saw that she still had a login on his personal computer in his bedroom!! Lesson learned, I guess.
I guess these losers exist because so many women allow them to keep using them. Thankfully I won’t be one of them.
mic 39
People, many a woman feels treated well just because a man is very attracted; it can be emotionally intoxicating to be desired. Provided the man is not repulsive in some way.
As for the story:
Okay, but that leaves out some important information. You might have found the other questions embarrassing, but they were aimed at revealing not necessarily conscious factors that lead people to make bad relationship choices. If you had been turned off by photos of him on an online dating site or had not found something about him in person sexy (it’s unlikely to have been just words), you would not have gone through that. Since he seems to be a bad guy and you’ve griped about wrinkles and hair loss (which frankly is insensitive to male readers), another question is, Did he use misleading photos?
Sayanta 40
“Provided the man is not repulsive in some way.”
lol- this cracked me up
“you’ve griped about wrinkles and hair loss (which frankly is insensitive to male readers)”
Why? It’s a personal preference, like men preferring blonde twentysomethings with big boobs. A young woman probably isn’t going to find wrinkles and hair loss attractive in a boyfriend, and she has every right to her opinion.
Corrine 41
Hi, Mic. My apologies to any male readers concerning my comments, I’m just a bit bitter right now. It’ll pass.
About his online photos, I WAS turned off by his photos. In them, he looked old (his face) and wrinkled, but he has an athletes body. The reason I responded to his e-mails because he talks “sweet”. The poetry, nice words. His has the ability to make women feel he is a caring, gentlemen. He is not. His words are just a practiced, successful technique he uses to lure his victims (women-and I hope only women) in.
mic 42
Thanks for the answer, Corrine. Haha, he didn’t pose shirtless, did he? That’s not a good sign, readers.
Bitter – yes, that’s understandable. And preferences are preferences. But it must be jarring for many men to hear a woman who isn’t young (hence, Evan’s blog post) denigrate common male signs of aging. If a man were to comment unprompted about disliking women with small breasts, imagine the uproar.
Jennifer 43
@mic#42
I think instead of small breasts a better example would be sagging breasts or stretch marks or something like that. Just to go along with the aging theme you are talking about.
corrine 44
Mic, yup! He had one shirtless pic…
Cilla 45
Yeah, I used to hit the “next” button for shirtless, too, but it’s so ubiquitous these days, it’s not necessarily a red flag any more. I’m seeing a lot of triathletes, gym rats, personal trainers, etc. posing shirtless. I think it’s also more popular in certain geographic areas (beach communities like SoBe) and with certain ethnic groups (seems to be more accepted among African American men). Have to say, after looking at some of the pics I see on Match, I don’t exactly mind the eye candy.
mic 46
However, sagging breasts or stretch marks probably wouldn’t be expressed as a deal-breaker, because it’s not something for which one realistically can screen:) Unlike shirtless men….
Does anyone know of a case where shirtless led to a happy long-term relationship? And don’t fit guys know how to show off without being overtly sexual? Most likely not, since most people lack style. It would be forgiveable if, for instance, it’s just one of several pictures from a guy who is an avid sufer.
starthrower68 47
Corrine,
Unless I miss my guess, I think most of your anger is directed at yourself for feeling you should have known better than to get involved with such a mope. Be careful about beating yourself up too much. When we open our heart to someone, this is an unfortunate risk we take. Sometimes we get a good result and sometimes we don’t. I know working through the anger is a process, but you WILL get on the other side of it. Be patient with yourself and I’m sure you already know this, but NEVER EVER have any contact with this guy again. He is toxic.
Karl R 48
mic asked: (#46)
“don’t fit guys know how to show off without being overtly sexual? Most likely not, since most people lack style.”
The ones with a sense of class will be able to show off without being shirtless.
Since I do yoga, my profile has a couple pictures of me in yoga poses. In both, I’m wearing baggy t-shirts and tight shorts. Both show off my legs (my best feature). In one, the pose causes the shirt to hug close enough to my body to make it obvious that I’m not carrying extra weight. And in that picture, my butt looks great.
starthrower68 said: (#47)
“Be careful about beating yourself up too much.”
I agree. You figured out that you needed to dump this guy, and you did. Everybody makes mistakes in dating. As long as you learn from them, you’ll do fine.
michael 49
What should you do? LOL. If you stick around for that crap then you are just asking for more. Leave it. Oh and all men cheat and all women cheat. Well, not all men and not all women but most do.
michael´s last blog post…Wazzum Dating Software News
Sayanta 50
Yeah- what’s up with all those shirtless pics? Tacky, dude.
Hmmm…..maybe I should pose in my bra.
vlh 51
<>
Codependency. Daddy issues. Society also puts pressure on women to reconcile and “get back together” and “patch things up” even when it’s obvious she should ditch him, revamp her online dating profile and start seeing other men immediately.
Sayanta 52
“Society also puts pressure on women to reconcile and get back together and patch things up ” -
It does? All the books on relationships I see have one title- Dump his ass.
starthrower68 53
I would submit that society pressures women to be desirable but not to desire. But that’s a whole other blog.
thomas 54
great discussion
Sayanta 55
“I would submit that society pressures women to be desirable but not to desire. But that’s a whole other blog.”
I really think that’s changing- especially since the past decade.
Karl R 56
Michael said: (#49)
“all men cheat and all women cheat. Well, not all men and not all women but most do.”
In other words, you’re saying that you cheat.
In a psychology class, I remember being told about a study where they surveyed people aobut cheating. The cheaters tended to overestimate the number of people who cheat. Those who didn’t cheat tended to underestimate the number of people who cheat.
Perhaps one way to subtly screen for cheaters would be to ask someone what percentage of people they believe cheat.
Sayanta 57
“Perhaps one way to subtly screen for cheaters would be to ask someone what percentage of people they believe cheat.’
lol- that’s actually a pretty good idea.
Although, I know some faithful people who are just really really paranoid about the whole cheating thing- so I don’t know if it would necessarily be accurate.
Corrine 58
I think Karl pointed out a great way to discreetly ascertain someone’s idea about cheating, but then again, my career is psychology. LOL.
I appreciate the comments by starthrower and Karl, and yes, I’m more mad at myself more than anything for even giving this assclown the time of day! As you guys have read, I told him it was over once when his creep colors started to show, but I gave him a another chance. The rest is history. A liar is a liar, is a liar…LOL
I wonder why men who have less than desirable qualities (creeps, unemployed, NOTHING to offer) will treat a woman badly when she treats them well? So, is there really something to the idea that when you treat a man less than wonderful, he treats you better.
THoughts?
About women that take men back. I’d say most do. I wouldn’t. With some women, some transgressions deal a mortal blow to the relationship. When a man cheats, it means he didn’t value you or the relationship.
Anabelle 59
It sounds to me that you are a very intelligent woman by the way you write and I believe you know the answerdeep down and you just want everyone here to validate it. Which they have done…
Ask yourself thesimple question: “Would you treat someone you truly loved that way and if you did what do you think it woulddo to thier self belief, self esteem and self worth?”
Anabelle´s last blog post…Online Dating Tips Articles
Corrine 60
anabelle, you are right of course…
A Good Analogy for the Journalist-Newspaper Relationship | Matters of Varying Insignificance 61
[...] My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man… [...]
Jacob 62
There are plenty of good people out there who will not abuse you. Try to find a good man and stick with him.
Karl R 63
Corrine asked (#58)
“is there really something to the idea that when you treat a man less than wonderful, he treats you better.”
Since you’re a psychologist, this should be easy to explain. Think about basic Skinnerism. I get the feeling that you treat the man well regardless of how he treats you. That trains him that the reward (good treatment from you) is unrelated to his own actions/behavior. Since he can get the reward without any effort (good treatment toward you), he stops putting in the effort to treat you better.
If you want the man to treat you better, tie your responses to his actions. If a woman takes days to respond to e-mails/voicemails, I stop trying to contact her as often, and I don’t worry about replying to her promptly.
If a woman is distancing herself from me (through body language), I give her that space and a little extra. I don’t waste time worrying about why it’s occurring. Either the distance is temporary, and she’ll want to be close again, or it’s permanent and she’s on her way out.
You deserve to receive the same kind of treatment that you give to the other person. To put it another way, it’s quid pro quo. But, to continue the idea of Skinnerism, don’t be 100% consistent about your reinforcement. The reinforcement will work better if it’s not completely consistent. If he does something nice, you can smile and say “Thank you”, you can give him a hug and a kiss, you can drag him into the bedroom…. You’re rewarding the good behavior, but he doesn’t have an expectation of a specific reward for a given action.
The goal is to get a relationship between equals. As I said before, you shouldn’t be treating him like a king unless he’s treating you like a queen.
CasualEncountersBlog 64
I’m telling you. Don’t use online dating sites for anything except arranging hookups for anonymous sex. I mean obviously this guy treated you poorly, but he at least was leveraging the medium.
If you want to make a romantic connection I’d advise joining a club of some sort. Pursue a hobby likely to also be pursued by people with whom you’ll hit it off; people with whom you might be able to establish a future. Hint: this group should not include not drug addicts, gamblers, or self-mutilators.
Take it easy.
CasualEncountersBlog´s last blog post…Site update: Chat added
Maria 65
I understand why you are where you are. It is a sad realization, when you finally come to grips that the inherent character traits of someone you thought you loved, is an abuser. He won’t change, and violence escalates. Run for your life! Phone the nearest county services where you reside, check into a safe house and file a restraining order. Safe houses have counseling and legal resources available. Start a new life…NOW…while you still have one. Some women don’t get out alive.
Selena 66
I think it might be largely chemistry with some element of challenge thrown in. There are some people who set off an invisible hum inside you; others don’t. Adrenaline (from fighting) can heighten this hum. And so can *make up * sex. Possibly the emotional charges in a bad relationship become somewhat addictive?
Add to that for some people there exists an element of challenge in keeping a difficult relationship going –the desire “to win”. They will keep going back for round 6, round 11, round 20 in pursuit of that win whatever it happens to mean to them.
Also, very seldom do abusive people, liars and cheaters present themselves that way at first. No matter what one’s level of self esteem or disfunctional backround, how many people who were abused, lied to, cheated on on a first date do you think would agree to a second? The bad behavior usually starts after a relationship has already been firmly established and the victim is more wholly emotionally invested and presumably more reluctant to leave.
Not Dating 67
“My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man. What Should I Do?”
Marry his of course!!! Or you could run, change your phone number and never look back. Personally I would say if your boyfriend is any ONE of the four things mentioned in this title then you should dump him quick.
Corrine 68
Also, very seldom do abusive people, liars and cheaters present themselves that way at first. No matter what one’s level of self Selena: “No matter what level of someone’s self esteem or disfunctional backround, how many people who were abused, lied to, cheated on on a first date do you think would agree to a second? The bad behavior usually starts after a relationship has already been firmly established and the victim is more wholly emotionally invested and presumably more reluctant to leave.”
Selena, that’s basically what happened to me. The man that he presented himself as was definitely not the man that revealed himself at the end. It was literally a Jeckyl-Hyde kind of thing.
Selena 69
Corrine,
That’s an experience I’ve had also. I became involved with a guy I thought was a good match for me, came to feel he was my best friend. This ex is also someone I now literally describe as a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde – EXACT WORDS.
The abuse was so insidious, came on gradually over a period of time, and I found it hard to believe coming from a guy who was always telling me, and showing me, he loved me. It was terribly confusing until he just became too much to take.
Prior to this relationship, I didn’t have self esteem issues. I did not come from a disfunctional family. And in fact, I have a degree in multiple disciplines of social science. Shouldn’t I have spotted this kind of thing right off? The violent potential? Well I didn’t.
When discussing situations like this, it might be helpful to be aware that “pat” answers (self esteem for example is a hard concept to measure) seldom explain why people make the choices they do. Listening deeper, might provide more understanding. I think of it as psychological archeology -subtling sifting through different levels.
terry 70
i can’t believe how many replies are simplistic and judgmental.
i am on the exit side of a verbally abusive relationship that much of the time was close, intimate, fun, and adventurous…he had a childhood that was nighmarish…there was a part of me that want to help heal the wounds, and forgive his transgressions because i knew his actions were coming from that very damaged place…
but once i realized my love and patience and understanding were not going to heal his darkness, my plea to my friends was NOT how can i change him or how can i make this work…it was how do i let go? HOW DO I LET GO? How do i walk away when i am being intimidated, manipulated and there is genuine care even tho i know its over i cannot help this person….relationships like this are as much an addiction as heroin or gambling…even when you know the drug ain’t gettin you high any more how do you overcome the HABIT?
it’s a long journey of commitment, determination, positive behaviors…(yoga, walking, meditating, talking with friends, healing…) to separate from this powerful drug…
JuJu 71
Hmm, somehow I don’t think of healing my SO’s wounds as part of a healthy (not to mention, desirable) relationship.
I mean, wounds inflicted on my time – sure, I’ll be there for him just like I expect him to be there in tough times for me.
But someone intimidating and manipulating me because his behavior “comes from a dark place” – exactly how is it judgmental of me not to want to be someone’s therapist?.. :-%
Michael 72
I wish I knew where to meet women with low self-esteem.
Karl R 73
Michael said: (#72)
“I wish I knew where to meet women with low self-esteem.”
Why?
casualencounters.com/blog 74
Kind of obvious, isn’t it. You can punch above your weight with the low-self-esteemers. *Trophypose*.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 20 Conclusion
Michael 75
Women with low self-esteem (such as those who ask Evan what to do if their boyfriens is a verablly abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, sexually unfaithful man) are easier to manipulate and easier to keep.
Joe 76
So what you’re saying is that you’re just a lazy bum?
A-L 77
Michael,
Easier to keep, I understand. But do you really want a woman you can manipulate? I imagine that type of relationship would feel rather emotionally vacant, and not at all something that I would desire myself.
Karl R 78
Michael said: (#75)
“Women with low self-esteem are easier to manipulate and easier to keep.”
These women come with baggage. Tons of it.
I knew one such woman who slept around with a lot of men, because it made her “feel loved”. Her husband may have gotten a sexy wife who didn’t leave him, but he also ended up sharing her with a lot of friends, acquaintances and strangers.
Or you could get a woman who is convinced that she’s not good enough to keep you happy, so she constantly suspicious that you’re cheating on her (or will cheat on her) with any woman that you pay any attention to.
Or you could get a woman who is convinced that you’ll dump her once you get to know her … so she protects herself by dumping you preemptively.
And if you’re manipulating her, everybody will be encouraging her to dump your ass.
casualencounters.com/blog said: (#74)
“Kind of obvious, isn’t it. You can punch above your weight with the low-self-esteemers.”
I can think of a few preferable ways to get a woman who would normally be out of my league:
#1 – Be her type
My first serious relationship was with a woman who “liked lanky men”. To most women I was too thin, but to this woman I was irresistable.
#2 – Have high self-esteem
Last year I dated a woman who was as fit as me, smarter than me, better educated than me, funnier than me, better looking than me, had a more prestigious job, out-earned me, and she even danced better than me.
I was the only smart, educated, fit, good looking, employed, funny dancer who wasn’t too intimidated to date her.
#3 – Date someone others find undesirable
My current girlfriend is in her late 40s. But she’s more fit, energetic and sexier than almost any woman my age (or younger). But because of her age, there are fewer men competing for her than there are for less attractive women in their 30s.
And I don’t get stuck with tons of baggage if I do any of these.
Sayanta 79
Michael- you sound like quite the ladies’ man *cough*
Michael 80
As one can deduce from this article, men who are verbally abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, and sexually unfaithful can be ladies’ men.
JuJu 81
Okay, Michael and others who think this way, let me tell you how it is.
The only men women might take this crap from (and, mind you, this would take a particular kind of woman – insecure and at least somewhat emotionally messed up) are the highly desirable alpha males. I.e., those possessing a combination of physical attractiveness with confidence in their being god’s gift to women and disregard for social norms. These absolutely must be men women tend to compete over.
Those same women will NOT look twice at a man who doesn’t measure up to these criteria, regardless of how assh*lish his behavior might be, but will think instead that he has to run on his “hind legs” around them for them to pay him any attention.
Miriam 82
This man has no respect for woman, is most likely uneducated and not raised to have class…you cannot change this…most likely the sex is good and keeps you attached and you may not be financially independent. I have kept men around for sex but I know for a fact, this type of man is not relationship material and I wouldn't for a minute consider anything serious with a man who disrespects women via verbal abuse or lack of respect…you destroy your own self esteem when you put up with that. Try to become financially independent and get a man you deserve.
Louise Krekic 83
Hi Corrine
The guy isnt worthy of even being looked at not mantioning sleeping with.
THERE GOES YOUR PHYSICAL ATTRACTION, MIA !!!
He is someone that doesnt even respect his own mother. He is manipulative and a borderline criminal who can spread aids around.
Louise
Cat 84
(Miriam, #82) This man has no respect for woman, is most likely uneducated and not raised to have class…
Education and fidelity really don’t have much in common. Your Ivy League guy isn’t less likely to cheat than the high school drop out…
(Louise, #83) He is manipulative and a borderline criminal who can spread aids around.
Let’s remember not to vilify people living with AIDS and HIV. Yes, you & your partner(s) should get tested for STDs. However, someone having an STD doesn’t automatically make them a cheater or a bad person. I’ve been working with an AIDS charity for over five years, and I’ve yet to meet someone with that disease who in any way deserved it.
I’d say a bigger threat is someone who doesn’t get regularly tested, has no symptoms, and unknowingly gives you something… And yeah, it could be that really nice, educated, guy-next-door-type who’s falling in love with you! 80% of people who have an STD experience no noticeable symptoms. One in four college students has an STD. Scary, right? Practice safe sex and get tested.
That said, I agree that anyone abusive isn’t worth your time or your body!
David T 85
Jamie is a co-dependent of a sex addict and needs external help in a big way. A man who demands sex immediately, has it in the house with a woman he is only just dating while his teenage daughters are home and is having sex with so many different women is clearly compulsive and not thinking of how he affects others. The well being of Jamie’s children (and herself too) counts on getting help. Please tell her to do go to http://www.cosa-recovery.org/ immediately, and visit this page. http://www.cosa-recovery.org/behaviors.html
I bet she recognizes herself quickly and will be in tears by the bottom of the list. She is not alone and needs to know that.
Denise 86
I find it really sad that so many women have such low self worth. I have made mistakes in regard to men, but never have I endured ANY of this behavior, so it’s hard for me to understand.
What do these women want when they write? Validation that things might get better?
Maybe it’s therapeutic for them to write about this? Hopefully that’s the case and they can see how crazy their behavior is in regard to men like this, how they view themselves and realize they need to learn and do things differently.
elle 87
First, you can believe that these men weren’t tools to these women in the beginning. Like a lot of guys do to win a woman, they probably pulled out all the stops wooing and screwing to win the women. Then, once they had them, all bets were off! I know, because the same happened to me. Women get very invested in relationships. Sex and romance are the glue. When he starts treating you like sh** you can’t believe it. It has to be your fault! You try harder still. You have convinced yourself if only I was fill in the blank he would treat me better because he is a prince (based on his prior behavior). You want things to go back to the way they are, and you are holding that ghost of the relationship in your heart. You are in love with the guy you knew at the beginning who was so considerate and sweet. I was trapped in a relationship like this for nearly a decade. I thought it was my fault that he was acting like an a** and of course he did nothing to disavow me of that notion. It took me moving away from him to finally wake up, as well as many teary eyed conversations with my mother to convince me it was him all along. But I learned something very important. I learned what love IS NOT. What it doesn’t look like and what it doesn’t feel like. So that was my tools gift to me. I lived and I learned. I’m happily married now.
Michele 88
I am one of these women, I will tell you exactly why I deal with it….past 2 years prior to meeting him, I had no dates, no relationship and no interest from any man. I am 46, physically fit, stylish, and alone. Being with him beats being by myself. I get sick of it every now and then and leave…..then the lonelies set in and I call him back. My self esteem is not low, I was not abused as a child, I lived in a loving 2 family home. My career is fulfilling, I volunteer, I put myself out there but have been invisible. Our relationship is 80% bad, 20% good and it beats nothing. How sad you say? Don’t cry for me Argentina….it beats nothing and I’m still looking for the decent guy….
* 89
It all depends on expectations and preferences.
Personally, I would walk out the door (and call the police) the moment abuse enters the equation.
On cheating, however… there are men who are just not programmed to confront life’s difficulties straight-on, and they will find solace in short flings that take their minds off the responsibilities that come with a steady relationship. Yes, it’s a character flaw, but in several cases it’s counterbalanced by other qualities.
I’d take an intellectually brilliant/emotionally deep cheater over a faithful simpleton anytime. Of course there’s brilliant, emotionally deep, faithful men around… oh no, wait, not really. Maybe, but I don’t think I want to spend my life looking for unicorns.
Most guys who are big catches do know it. They have big egos. Most guys who are in touch with their feelings are interesting to women, but they also need tons of attention. For a driven woman who has a career besides having a relationship/family it’s either dial back her own pursuits to give her big-catch mate more time and attention or accept that he’s going to look for comfort in someone else, from time to time. It’s a choice.
Not to mention that, with a very unsuccessful career as the proverbial other woman in my past, I can attest that these guys almost always go back home after getting their fix of attention and comfort from the new and exciting girl, so the primary woman in their life really has nothing to worry about.
More power to the few superwomen who manage to get their hands on someone who’s got Hemingway’s talents or JFK’s standing, but not the same number of extramarital relationships. If I were that level of great, I’d feel constantly misunderstood too, and I’d want everything too.
kristina 90
you know i am in the same boat my bf of 4 years cheated with a girl who i tried to help and she was a hooker on drugs he gave me an std and i am pregnant i am thinking of not having the baby because he is so mean to me and i really dont think i will ever get help from him he basically just uses me but as soon as another girl comes along he treats me like crap he has done so much to hurt and the fact i take care of him is really a slap to the face he tells me i am to fat thats why we are not intament and he goes on dating websites he doesnt pay rent he has never helped me bills and he never has bought me a gift like i have him he has been physically and emontionally abusive putting me down acting like i am not important unless he needs something from me i have been humillated tortured and ran into the ground and he acts like i am wronging him when i kick him out the of the house i have forgave him 5 times for cheating or related cheating the phsical abuse and the emotional crap hes put me through and he claims to other females he is a good guy but even his ex put him in jail for abuse and he did the samething to her just not as bad as me i think he is evil or really just doesnt care
Rose 91
The answer to why is an abusive past.
Jon 92
I totally disagree with whomever has said so prophetically that people don’t change. That is mularkey.
The problem is that people don’t change UNTIL they see and recognize a problem to be changed. People do this all the time outside themselves. If they see they have a tire low on air, they recognize it as a problem and go either put more air in their tire or they check to see if the tire needs to be replaced.
In the case of these women, it’s not their fault that they met a guy who is an a-hole. That’s often the luck of the draw. However, upon seeing that he’s an a-hole, they don’t recognize it as a problem. Thus, these are issues that are inside them, and until they recognize these issues as their own first, their dating habits won’t change. Until you believe you deserve a man who treats you in a way that really suits your wishes, you won’t find one.
As hard as this is for people to admit, people get trated by people this way when it suits them! If you aren’t demanding anything more from people who repeatedly step on you, then you clearly don’t think you deserve much better. Because people who step on me get ousted from my life. Pretty quickly. So these women have to do some very tough soul-searching. These are tough, deep issues in my mind and no amount of advice on the ’Dr. Phil-quick fix’ level will solve this overnight.