I’m a 40-Year Old Man Who Has Never Had A Girlfriend Or Sex.

I'm a 40-Year Old Man Who Has Never Had A Girlfriend Or Sex

First off, I’m glad to have found your site. Your advice is thoughtful and reasonable, unlike many others out there. Suffice to say, you’ve given me a lot to think about. So here’s my situation. This year, I will turn 40. Despite my attempts since I went to college, I am still a virgin. Yes, I’ve seen the movie, and I won’t lie: I’m afraid of becoming the archetype of that fictional character.

Over the years, I’ve learnt—albeit slowly, it seems—about many mistakes I’ve been doing. Not paying attention to women’s body language, not trying to go in for the first kiss, it’s a long laundry list of things I go “Crap, I should have done that!”.

But despite my efforts (and the assistance of friends over the years), I have never had a girlfriend or sex. As of recently, I try to find women between 25 and 42 years old. I’ve read a lot about what you’ve said about “Ineffective versus Effective” and “What I want in a woman versus what she wants about me”, and I guess I’m still a bit confused. I think that my situation (and that of other virgins in my predicament) is a little different in some ways, but also the same in others when it comes to relationships, sex, et cetera. I am an only child, and my parents are kind of old fashioned and raised me as such. I don’t usually try to go for/get a kiss on the first date, and I don’t try to force sex to happen right away.

Friends and coworkers alike have given me a huge span of advice and suggestions, from “sowing my oats” with a professional escort/hooking up with an “easy” college girl, to being persistent and trying to find that “special one”.

Eventually, I want to buy one or several of your products, but anything constructive you can offer me would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mo

Dear Mo,

As a dating coach for women, I rarely run letters from men. But maybe I should do it a little more, considering that 54% of my readers (according to Google Analytics) are actually men. And if you’ve been reading for a while, Mo, you know that I do two things with each reader question:

  1. 10% of the time, I’ll provide validation that the reader is 100% correct in her assessment of things. That generally means saying something like, “He’s a jerk. Dump him. Move on.” The problem with these questions is that they’re boring. There’s only so many ways to say, “You’re right!” which make for a boring advice column. Which is why most of my advice veers towards…
  2. 90% of the time, I’ll let you know what you’re doing/thinking/believing that is not getting you results. Either that means shining the light into a blind spot and giving you an idea of what you can’t see, or it’s telling you how to conduct yourself differently to get different results.

In your situation, I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.

I have a feeling you already know everything you have to do. You’re just not doing it.

That makes giving unique advice a little bit tricky, you know?

Now, I’ve written about this stuff before.

I’ve talked about how passionate, competent guys get the girl.

I’ve talked about how nice guys (with balls) finish first.

I’ve talked about how women should value nice guys a little more.

But it doesn’t really matter what I say. Telling women to value nice guys more is like telling men to value older, heavier women more. People want what people want. At the end of the day, we all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.

You’ve had a lot of time to think about this, my friend. You’ve gone over the laundry list of things you could have done differently over the years. You may have valid excuses in how you were raised, but it really doesn’t matter if you were raised old-fashioned. You’ve been on your own for 20 years now.

So what constructive advice can I offer you? Should you lose your virginity with a pro just to get it over with? Should you hold out for someone special? I would suggest no to both options.

In fact, the biggest problem you have surrounding sex is that you’re making WAY too big a deal about it. Apart from the fact that sex can create babies, in 99% of cases, it’s just a fun thing that people do when they’re attracted to each other. By not carrying yourself with confidence, not asking out more women, not making the first move, not pushing to go further, and not seeing yourself as a sexual being, you’ve projected yourself to women as safe and asexual as well. It’s time to reboot and start from scratch.

We all have two choices: stay exactly as we are right now and wait until we find someone who appreciates us, or adjust who we are to become appealing to more people.

You don’t need to have sex tomorrow.
You don’t need to have sex with someone you love.
You need to make up for lost time and catch up with what everyone else was doing from 14-21.

I rarely plug my own products on here, but you should begin with Finding the One Online, my online dating audio series. It’s much easier and more accessible (for nice guys) than going to pubs to hit on hot 27-year-olds. Despite the sales page being written for women, Finding the One Online is actually a unisex product, created in 2008 for both men AND women. It’s helped thousands of people choose a dating site, write better profiles, post better photos, understand the opposite sex, and learn to move from email to the phone to the real life date.

Instead of skipping steps and worrying about getting naked with someone, you just need the experience of being around women, learning to act on your attraction, and demystifying this sex thing that you’ve built up in your mind. One step at a time. Go on a bunch of dates. Build up your dating skills. Get more confidence. And when it’s time for you to have sex, you’ll be as ready as any man ever was.

Click here to learn more about Finding the One Online and how it can attract more, high quality prospects on your dating site than you ever imagined possible.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    LogicAli

    Take a number bro,  women are fighting for the “top dog”.

    1. 1.1
      BB

      LMAO.
      Very true:)

  2. 2
    Anonymous Editor

    When I was in my mid-20s, I thought that I’d never ever meet a woman who would go out with a self-proclaimed nerd who liked playing video games and writing about them for a living. But I did eventually meet someone and now, I’m happily married with a daughter along the way.
    My wife wasn’t the first person I had asked to go out with. In the past, I had asked out other women but they didn’t reciprocate my feelings. When I was 28, I finally had my first girlfriend but the relationship only lasted a few months. However, that brief courtship did teach me some important lessons about the importance of compatibility. So a few months later, I rekindled a friendship with a woman who shared my interests. She would later become my wife two years later. 
    I once asked my wife why she had agreed to go out with me and she said that she liked how I had asked her out instead of beating around the bush. She confessed to being a little old-fashioned, so she wanted me to make the first move (I confessed to her in person on Valentine’s Day). Plus we got along with each other pretty well and shared the same values. Also, I was apparently her type. ;) 
    Speaking as someone who only lost his virginity after marriage at the age of 30, I can honestly say that sex is (as you may have heard from countless others) quite overrated. Yes, it’s a great experience when you do it with someone you love and cherish, but the first time is always crap. My wife is more religious than I am, so she wanted to wait until marriage before we actually had sex. For me, I didn’t mind waiting until we were married. But we did engage in heavy petting during our relationship, which only took place after several months of courtship. 

    Since both me and my wife were both virgins, our expectations for our very first sexual intercourse were ridiculously high. We didn’t know how to please each other right, and we were also a little bit scared. So our first time ended with both of us tired at the end of the session, neither party able to orgasm. But once we became more comfortable with each other’s bodies and threw away our unreasonable expectations, we started to enjoy sex. There are good days (we get to both experience orgasms) and bad days (I’m too tired to ejaculate, or she’s not wet enough and sex is starting to hurt for her). Even when we don’t orgasm during sex, we still cuddle and enjoy each other’s presence. 

    So go out and meet other people. Have fun. Don’t think of sex or marriage as the end goal. Like Evan said, when you finally meet someone whom you’re comfortable to have sex with, you’ll be ready. 

    1. 2.1
      Jenn

      Anonymous,
      You’ve described exactly the kind of experience I’m hoping to have with my own courtship and marriage (when they eventually happen). I differ from you only in that I know that the first time will be very awkward, probably a bit painful for me and not very pleasurable for either of us. Regardless, I hope things turn out for me exactly the way you’ve described. I couldn’t wish for a better outcome than to have a loving partner who is willing to wait and loves me enough that he might actually want to wait as well.

  3. 3
    Katie

    Aww, I think you sound blinking lovely!  I don’t understand all this women liking alpha male stuff at all – a nice, shy, polite boy works for me every time and I cannot be the only woman who thinks this!  No, I don’t want a wimpy, weak sap, but strength and conviction don’t have to go alongside being pushy, confident and promiscuous as lots of women seem to think. 
    Personally I’ve been on a few dates with people I mt online who have tried to kiss me on the first meeting and I just find that intrusive, desperate and unattractive.  I bet if you could become close friends with a few women and then confide to them that you’re shy and a virgin, I bet at least one would find that endearing and attractive instead of a turn off. 
    Mind you, sex is extremely underwhelming at first – like snogging.  I had expected all through my teen years to find my first snog a passionate, emotional rite of passage.  Instead it was wet, wriggly and very physical rather than spiritual.  Sex is similarly disappointing – you sort of get to like it for what it is after an initial massive disappointment, as opposed to it being some immensely spiritual, intense experience like you see on the films and wait for all your life.  You know when you have that immense emotional connection with a person and are 100% in love with them?  Well sometimes orgasms can almost feel ‘wrong’ with someone so special, because they’re such an immensely physical, sweaty, poky event!  So good luck, enjoy it when it happens, but definitely keep your expectations low until you’ve learned to love it the way people learn to love waggling wet tongues with people! 

  4. 4
    Tracy

    Evan, your advice to him was quite good. However, he may be sexually anorexic and relationship avoidant which he may want to seek out a SLAA group in his area for meetings. Or a sex therapist. He sounds as if he might have deep-seated issues surrounding sex and relationships. Dating advice has not helped and won’t until he addresses what is really keeping him sexless and uncoupled.
    I want to wish him good luck.
     

  5. 5
    JD in LA

    I feel for you Mo.

    I grew up in a very dysfunctional family when it came to relationship. My parents were passionless, and I was sent to Catholic school (yes, taught by the nuns). Enough said.

    I never had a real girlfriend and was a virgin until I was 25. I had much to learn but I did. Like most other things in life, it is up to you to set your destiny.

    There are plenty of women out there who are good for “wham bam thank you mam”. For example, if some girlfriend wants to think she is as hot as all hot movie stars combined in Hollywood and asks (and expects) you to agree with her, tell her don’t short sell herself — Angelina Jolie is nothing compared to her. I would seize every opportunity to have sex with her until her neediness becomes unbearable. Then dump her and move on. I did plenty of that. I hear again and again from women who feel their life is so fulfilled and they are so special when men give them compliments that would make a sane person cringe. But to put it bluntly, you need to treat a dumb fuck like a dumb fuck.

    Lest one thinks I am a male chauvinist pig and a misogynist, I married my ex-wife in my early thirties and the marriage lasted for twenty two years until we grew apart. She was very pretty and gorgeous but was sick of men being so full of shit to butter her up all the time. Needless to say I was not one of those with her. During the marriage I was 100% faithful physically, very gainfully employed and lived responsibly so that my ex-wife could be a stay-home mom to raised our two kids. We treated each other as equal. When we divorced we simply divided our assets equally with no regard to who worked inside or outside the home.

    I guess for you Mo at your age you are probably beyond messing with the “wham bam thank you mam” bimbos. Making yourself attractive to a girlfriend of serious dating material is like a sales job. Understand to whom you are selling and develop a strategy accordingly. Good luck.

    One more thing. I think Evan is to be commended for his work to coach women to become ones of serious dating material. But in doing so he also helps to deplete headcounts from the “wham bam thank you mam” pool. Some win and some lose.

    1. 5.1
      Dina Strange

      “There are plenty of women out there who are good for “wham bam thank you mam”. 
      You are “male chauvinist pig and a misogynist” – just look what you wrote up there.

      1. 5.1.1
        Chance

        Well, Dina, he did stop short of calling women “selfish, lazy, and stupid”.

        1. JD in LA

          A few of them are, but I don’t get what your point is.

    2. 5.2
      Chance

      JD-Dina said in another post that she keeps running into men that are selfish, lazy and stupid (or something to that effect). 

      1. 5.2.1
        JD in LA

        Chance,  Thanks for the enlightenment. That would make Dina a female chauvinist sow and a misandrist, no?   lol  :-) 

    3. 5.3
      AllHeart81

      Evan, I’m not sure how to report another poster you believe is abusive. But I think JD in LA fits the bill.

      Can these posts be deleted? I find them rather hateful. I’ve come to expect this website to be female friendly in helping women. Not anti-female and making derogatory comments about us. Thanks for your consideration to this suggestions.

      1. 5.3.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        AllHeart, I delete posts that directly attack a specific person. If anyone’s post was attacking, it was Dina’s. My assistant approved it. I did not.

        I will point out that you there is much more hatred of men on these boards than there is of women; you’ve just proven to be more sensitive to the comments about women. I am a dating coach for women and I agree that anti-female sentiments aren’t productive. But do you want me to start deleting every comment that is anti-male as well? If not, you probably have to deal with the fact that some people are going to say things that offend you. However know that any PERSONAL attacks will be policed as best I can.

  6. 6
    Paula

    Please don’t be that guy that only goes after ‘hot’ women. Go after the normal girls and you’ll have a better chance. Too many people are going after people out of their league. Stop chasing the good looking girls. There are plenty of attractive average women (like me). We are always getting overlooked by the ‘prettier’ girls but we are great catches.

    1. 6.1
      Nate

      Hi Paula,

      Well, I might be interested in you actually. I don’t need a hot woman. Hot woman for me is someone that understands me and I understand her and we like being with each other. Nothing hotter than that. 

    2. 6.2
      Ronald Messier

      Paula: I am confined to a wheelchair. I saw a woman this past June when I was at the supermarket across the street. She was not a 10. She was probably a 7. She was wearing a dress that was kind of a rainbow of colors print. She was at the register next to mine. By the time I had checked out what I had she was out the door. Afterwards I thought I should have set down my basket. Then gone out to the entryway and waited for her. Then I could use a pick-up line that involves me and the chair.

  7. 7
    Mickey

    Mo, I share your pain. Makes one wonder if some things just aren’t meant to be.

    1. 7.1
      Rebecca

      Oh, I hate the “just not meant to be” comment. I’ll concede, being female and conforming to my society’s current body size standard, I am offered sex with irritating regularity. But even if it’s harder for men, I want to tell you it’s crazy to just drop it and go live like a hermit. First of all, if you don’t know from personal experience, yes, sex really is that good. You don’t want to miss out. And secondly, there are 3 billion heterosexual females on this planet – someone out there is going to want to be with you.
      As Evan suggests, sexual confidence is pretty sexy, but if I like a guy, I’ll make the first move. I think the only personality trait that REALLY makes it impossible to find someone is if you won’t go out (online or bricks and mortar) where people can find you. So unless you WANT to go through life feeling like it just wasn’t meant to be, for God’s sake don’t give yourself permission to just give up – keep putting yourself out there!

      1. 7.1.1
        Mickey

        Easier said than done, isn’t it…especially after years of trying and failing???

      2. 7.1.2
        Mickey

        Rebecca:

        One last thing. Deciding to no longer play a game one has no hope of winning is hardly giving up. So, how many rejections should a guy endure in the now unrealistic hope of just getting a date?

        1. Rebecca

          Certainly easier said than done, and I don’t mean to be flip about how painful repeated rejections are. I get it that I actually _don’t_ get it, and you have to make your own decisions about whether it’s worth it to you. What I want to say to you and other men who are feeling like “incels” is that I think you’re wrong about “no hope” and “unrealistic” because there are so many women with such completely different tastes. And I want to say that, in my experience, finally finding a relationship is so great that it’s actually worth the string of rejections along the way and the agonizing breakup that’s probably coming.
          I’m saying this at the end of my own years-long drought. When my marriage ended, it was traumatic enough that I really thought I was done with dating – why put myself through that again? But I didn’t stop hanging out with people, both men and women, at NerdNite, at church, at volleyball, at work… About six years in to my little pity party, I was surprised to discover that I got butterflies in my stomach every time I chatted with one of my co-workers. I was still telling my divorce support group that I was never going to date again even as I was actively making excuses to be in his company. He was only marginally receptive, and I finally got the brush-off, which sucked, and I cried. But that made it possible for me, now seven years since my last relationship ended, to be at the start of a new relationship that’s actually mutual. And hopefully consummated in the very near future.
          I’m just hoping you’ll hang in there for your own happy ending.

  8. 8
    Sunflower

    Don’t let the stigma of never having a girlfriend or sex keep you from retreating into your shell or making you feel awkward around girls.  It doesn’t matter how old you are, or what experiences you’ve had in life.  Everyone feels overwhelmed and intimidated by things at some time in their life, especially if things don’t come that easy.  Stand tall and believe in yourself.  You will find some nice girl, or  someone you may already know, who you trust and open up too.  Just let nature take its course.  Good luck!  

  9. 9
    starthrower68

    I think there isn’t enough information to assume that this poster has some sort of psychosis or disorder.  While they are very rare in this day and age, some people just don’t have sex or a significant other on the same timetable as everybody else, and it’s a disservice to jump to the conclusion there is something wrong with him because he hasn’t.

    1. 9.1
      Ruby

      I agree with this to some extent. I don’t expect everyone to be married by age 30, far from it. However, he is 40 and not only has he not had sex, it seems like he’s having significant trouble connecting with women.
       
      Since he says, “Over the years, I’ve learnt—albeit slowly, it seems—about many mistakes I’ve been doing. Not paying attention to women’s body language, not trying to go in for the first kiss, it’s a long laundry list of things I go “Crap, I should have done that!”, I wonder if he could have a disorder like Asperger Syndrome. Such people are usually quite intelligent, but can have problems in social situations because they have trouble reading social cues. Might be worth checking into. and I agree with Tracy (#4), that there could be other emotional issues that are keeping him from connecting with the opposite sex.

      1. 9.1.1
        Mickey

        Or, maybe he’s just unlucky.

        1. Susie

          Or shy. Or on a different timeframe than most. Or had medical issues. Or any of a million different experiences that cause him to be on a different path than most, none of which them mean there is something wrong with him. 

  10. 10
    Kevin

    Sure he can have sex, but he wants to have sex with someone thats that actually likes him. If u are awkward as a male thos can be a problem…remember ladies for every guy that is a player there are 10 guys who haven’t had sex in 6 months or more. Men dont have sex thrown at them, we have to put forth alot of effort to make it happen.

  11. 11
    Mike

    Stop trying so hard!   I’m an average looking guy and have zero problems attracting good-looking, interesting, nice women.   The main thing is BE YOURSELF.  Have confidence that you are special, you have worth and that there are girls out there that would be lucky to have you.  Whatever you do don’t try and be something you’re not or suck up to them too much.  Go to Nordstrom Rack and get some decent clothes that fit.  Start lifting weights.  you don’t need to be all muscle-bound but lifting will (a) give you confidence and (b) make you look healthy and fit.   Oh, and did I mnetion BE YOURSELF AND STOP TRYING – women clue in on that and they immediately start heading the other way.  I just enjoy meeting new people and if a woman isn’t interested, why force it?   Just meet people (men and women) and if you are yourself, one (or many) will see your value and then you can start to pay them more attention.   Good luck – I was in the same place and until I got the self-esteem and self-confidence, things didn’t change.  Oh, and read all the stuff on Marc’s site :-)
     

  12. 12
    Jenn

    While I agree with what Evan says about this guy likely coming off as asexual and “too nice”, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that sex is “just something fun that two people do when they’re attracted to each other”. Maybe that is how we’ve come to view it in this society. We’ve reduced it to merely something fun to do on the weekends, but I don’t agree. If you choose that viewpoint, you are likely going to be dissatisfied when you finally do start to “make up for lost time”. Could you learn to get better with women? Sure. Could you learn how to get women in the sack and have a different woman every night, thus getting “better” at having sex? Theoretically. Is it going to fulfill you? No, it likely would not. Maybe at first you might think it’s great, but after a while, it would likely get very boring and you’d feel like a little bit of your soul is being sucked out of you every time you have a meaningless one night stand.
    I encourage you to change your mindset from, “Poor me, I’m an older virgin” to, “Hey, you know what? It’s awesome that I’ve escaped all the baggage that accompanies sex.” Baggage that not only includes accidental pregnancy and potential STI’s, but emotional drain from relationships based on sex. Changing your viewpoint about what your virginity means to you is paramount to being satisfied with where you are in life. Adopting the viewpoint of saving yourself for someone special with leave you much more fulfilled and happy with where you are now.
    I am a 33 year old virgin who has gone through the same worries that you have. Trust me when I say that I know it isn’t going to be easy to explain myself when I finally do meet the love of my life. I plan to wait until I marry, and I know there aren’t a ton of guys who’d be willing to wait. I’m okay with that because I know that most guys aren’t going to be The One anyway. I didn’t choose to actively wait until just a few years ago but as a result, since then I’ve become so much more at peace with my virginity and with who I am as a person. I always said I wanted to wait at least until I fell in love. When that didn’t happen, over the years I slowly began to realize that there is a reason why. I believe that God wanted me to see that waiting until marriage really is the best choice. It can be the best choice for you, too. I had a lot of help from the site waitingtillmarriage.org as well. You should check it out, it’s a great resource and it could give you a different perspective on virginity and waiting. My advice to you is to stop being the accidental virgin. Stop thinking of your virginity in the context of wearing a scarlet “V” on your forehead and start wearing it like a badge of honor. Be proud of yourself and people will not have a problem with it. In our over-sexualized society, one’s virginity is seen as something shameful that must be gotten rid of as soon as possible, but it doesn’t have to be that way.
    There are a lot of women just like me who would consider a male virgin to be highly desirable. Just be positive about it and they likely will be too. I tell people all the time that I’m waiting (when the conversation calls for it, that is). They’re always surprised but I’ve gotten nothing but positive feedback about my choice. Many people actually admire me for waiting and tell me they wish they had as well. So first realize that you are far from being the only older virgin out there, and then work on believing that your virginity is something special which should be saved for someone who deserves it.

  13. 13
    Johnny

    The author’s statement that this guy is making a big deal out of sex sounds callus, but in this disposable, throw-away, transient society we live in today it is a sad but true fact. To me, this doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with this 40 year old virgin so much as it indicates the degree to which we have disconnected ourselves from our bodies, allowed ourselves to become dehumanized by the rapid acceleration of social and technological change in our society. Sex has become something apart from the person, a means in which we can physically gratify our animal desires without having to involve ourselves spiritually or emotionally. Serial relationships have become the new norm. I’ll use the analogy of the attitude one has towards an apartment he is renting where he’ll only stay a couple of years and the attitude that person has towards his own house where he’ll stay 20 years or more. This high rate of turnover is where this society’s mindset in regards to casual sex comes from. So, unfortunately, the author of this author is right; if the 40 year old virgin wants to get laid he will have to reinvent himself and adapt the mindset  the author prescribed. 

    1. 13.1
      Jenn

      Johnny,
      If getting laid is the goal, he could have done so ages ago, by visiting a sex personals site. Obviously, he wants more than that, as well he should. Humans simply were not wired to have sex with abandon. When you separate sex from love and marriage, you cheapen the act and as a result it becomes only “something two people do when they’re attracted to each other”. It’s no wonder that people with multiple sex partners have so much baggage. They have completely disassociated themselves from sex as a loving act between two people who are sharing a lifelong bond, and reduced it to “getting off”. That is not a fulfilling way to live.

  14. 14
    Karl R

    Mo said: (original letter)
    “This year, I will turn 40.”
    “As of recently, I try to find women between 25 and 42 years old.”
     
    Mo,
    It sounds like you may still be pursuing ineffective strategies.
     
    Based on your letter, your immediate concerns are finding a girlfriend and having sex. You’re 39 (soon to be 40). However, the age range you’re pursuing is 25 to 42 (14 years younger to 3 years older). Why did you choose that age range?
     
    Do you have any reason to believe that you have more in common with a 27 year old than you do with a 45 year old? Do you have any reason to believe that 27 year olds find you more desirable than 45 year olds do?
     
    If women who are 25-30 are pursuing you, then I think you should take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves. If not, you might find more success in primarily pursuing women who are close to your age, if not a bit older.
     
    Mo said: (original letter)
    “I don’t usually try to go for/get a kiss on the first date, and I don’t try to force sex to happen right away.”
     
    You don’t need to do either of those.
     
    However, you do need to give the impression that you are physically and romantically attracted to the woman. And while you don’t have to get a kiss (or have sex) by any particular date, you have to be willing to initiate the physical intimacy.

  15. 15
    Brett

    You don’t know me and I don’t know you. But I definitely have some advice. It’s the same advice I’ve given to my 22 year old son.

    Some background. I’m 51 years old. I have been married to two wonderful and beautiful women in my life. I’m still great friends with my first wife and I have a child with each.

    I think I know what it takes to find a woman and get her to feel that you are the one for her. That you’re the guy she can’t do without. The one that makes her feel secure, nurtured, and loved.

    I’ll dispense with all the psycho-babble and simply say this. You need to visualize in your mind what kind of woman you want to spend your life with. Whether she should be active, slender, plump, into the arts, or into climbing mountains. You need to decide what kind of woman you want to be with and then you need to be the man that deserves that kind of woman.

    You need to be a provider or at the very least carry your weight. You need to get it in your mind that you deserve to find a woman to love and one who will love you in return. And then you need to be that guy.

    And most importantly, be fun. Be yourself. Make her laugh for God’s sake. Don’t take yourself too seriously. Talk to women like they’re people. Listen to them. Even if they ramble on about nothing who gives a damn. Not every conversation is a world-changer.

    And when it comes to asking them out. Don’t ask. Not literally at least. But rather ask them what they’re doing Friday night and when they respond, “I don’t know. I don’t have any plans.” You say, “Great, I’m taking you to dinner.” Or to play miniature golf or whatever the hell you come up with. You do it with confidence. Just blurt it out. You tell her she’s going out with you. If she says no. Try again some other time or move on. No could actually mean no.

    Final thought. Is there any chance you’re gay? That’s awesome too. Go find a guy to spend your life with. You deserve to be happy. And loved. So believe it. And go do it…

    Have an awesome life…

    P.S. You’ll notice I never mentioned sex. Just get it out of your mind. When you’re approaching women the only thing you should exude is fun and confidence. The rest will happen naturally. And in that split second when you’re thinking it’s time to go in for the first kiss – it’s time. Just do it. The worst thing that can happen is it’s awkward, you both laugh, and you kiss her anyway. Just keep it lighthearted…

    1. 15.1
      Nobody

      I see that experience doesn’t necessarily mean common sense. You ask Mo if he’s gay. He just got through saying he wanted a girlfriend!
       

  16. 16
    C.j

    I found this article on Google, came across it because I am 28, never had a girlfriend and still a virgin. My problem is that I’m painfully shy or socially anxious. I don’t want someone to make a big deal out of this or treat me like crap! Also, I don’t think I have what it takes to be a good boyfriend. I’ve tried online dating but I never get any hits.. Women only want the tall, tanned confident dude with abs and tatts. The only messages I get are from overseas scammers. I’ve been single for so long I’ve stopped caring.. And I’m sick of being asked “why are you still single”

    1. 16.1
      Karmic Equation

      CJ, What kind of women did you write to online? The prettiest ones? The slim ones? Did you yourself write to women who were heavier than normal? Maybe on the plain side? No boobs? But had great profiles?

      If you have and got no responses, that is too bad. You might need to just go out and do things you enjoy or volunteer at places that would make you feel altruistic. You may meet people IRL who will be attracted who wouldn’t be online.

      If *you* only wrote to the most attractive women online then you’re not helping your own cause. If you’re a 5 in looks, then start by writing to women who are also 5 in looks, but whose profiles resonated with you. If you yourself can see beyond a woman’s looks, you may find a woman who will see beyond your shyness and social anxiety.

      Karma works like that. And God helps those who help themselves.

      Good luck.

    2. 16.2
      JennLee

      C.j

      I also wonder if you are just looking for one of the best looking women? Men and women seem to be making the same mistake with online dating. A person looks around, and isn’t happy with the quality of people who will date them. So they turn to online dating sites, and they see all of the pictures and of course start doing a mental sorting. Everybody wants quality in their life, but you also have to be realistic. The word “deserve” never comes into the equation. Nobody “deserves” anything when it comes to finding love. Women make the same mistake of thinking the deserve something, like a woman who has a Ph.D, thinking that she deserves a man with at least a Masters, who is tall, good looking, great teeth, great job, great conversationalist, funny, entertaining, athletic, and more. But the truth is, those men may not like her. Maybe the best man for her is a construction worker who is intelligent beyond his educational level, but thinks she is awesome.

      If you are sitting there thinking that life isn’t fair because you can’t attract one of the prettier girls, then you are right, life isn’t fair and it never will be. That IS life, and that is how life has always been. So you have 3 choices. You can continue to go after the pretty girls who reject you, or you can go after women who aren’t as pretty, but will appreciate you for your good qualities, or you can choose to remain single and accept that this is what is best for you. 1 will have you remain single but very unhappy, 1 will have find a girl and hopefully be happy, an 1 will have you be single but hopefully be happy. So what you have to realize is that wishing for a very pretty girl to one day call your own is likely going to bring nothing but unhappiness into your life.

      If I were you, I would go back to the sites you tried and look for women that you overlooked the first time. Find some that weren’t quite pretty enough for you the first time around, but you also don’t find them to be horrible looking. Then look at their profiles to see if they say anything that you feel gives you some common ground. I know this can also be hard because men and women often write very generic profiles, which I think is one reason so many fail. We try to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to nobody. So maybe make a small list of 5 questions you can ask as conversation starters. And don’t worry about the looks so much. Often people look better in person and often their looks can grow on you once you get to know them.

      But bottom line, if you were a 7 or above, you likely would have gotten at least some interest, so it is likely that you are more like a 5. We can’t be happy until we accept things about ourselves and make peace with that.

  17. 17
    es

    CJ – I hate tans, abs and tatts and I love nerdy, shy guys! It sounds like you’re bitter, defeated and that is not super attractive – get some help to change that mindset and then you’ll be someone who women want to be around. If you believe women won’t want you, they probably won’t.

    1. 17.1
      Rebecca

      Amen!

  18. 18
    That East Asian Man

    Hi, Mo.

    Is your situation unique? Not a chance. Every single man who is alive today has had to face the same issues. Some men dealt with them at age 15, while others are still dealing with them at age 85.

    There are many, many sources of help. Do a google search for Robert A. Glover, Michael Pariser, David Deida, Wayne Levine, Illuman, among others. They can put you on the right path.

    Your message refers to your “friends and coworkers,” but I’m skeptical that you have male friends. Before dating any more women, get some male friends. And work on yourself. You have plenty of time to become the man that you are meant to be – the kind of man who will be a suitable partner for the woman of your dreams.

    You’ve actually been given a gift, Mo. Now is the time to open the present.

  19. 19
    BraindEd

    unfortunately the majority of us guys are like this. we are a silent majority. our lot in life will be to remain the grunt workers the have-nots. just be careful – you may be labeled an “Elliot Rodgers” and feminism will be after you.

  20. 20
    Andrew

    Its difficult to not be jealous and envious of women, even though I’m straight and heterosexual, they are less likely to be late bloomers in the dating game than guys are because they don’t have to approach, ask out or initiate anything, and they are valued for their youth more than guys are

  21. 21
    j

    I guess there’s exceptions to every rule snd different circumstances but I’ve allways felt we go after and obtain what we desire a great deal. In other words I’ve allways felt passionate sexual people within reason will find a way to have sex. Im sorta surprised that people would expect sex to be bad. That would be the last thing I would expect if I was attracted and felt mutual chemistry. Since I went through puberty I’ve allways had guys interested so maybe that colors my views. I guess Ive allways thought that unless someone is hideous if after a certain amount of time with no sex or relationships there is an issue of low sexual desire to none or major social dysfunction. I wouldn’t have a clue what to do with a forty something virgin and would run away fast and I consider myself a very compassionate person. I saw an online dating show with a 37 year old virgin and very attractive. I kept thinking he must be hiding some kind of secret disability. He had an attitude like he needed to date ten thousand women to find the one. I find that strange like why couldnt he think the first or second cute lady he’s interested In be the one. I had the feeling he will never find what he’s looking for and he allready knows it.

  22. 22
    C43

    43 similar situation.  At this point it’s more likely I’ll get struck by lightning than ever have a girlfriend.

    My age range is large in both directions and have tried women of all shapes and sizes.  Doesn’t matter, I don’t light the spark.

    The fact of the matter is many women will question a man if he’s 40 and never married.  Add to that never having a relationship and almost every woman will run for the hills. 

    1. 22.1
      j

      In my experience the guys that never have relationships are delusional ultra picky pain in the asses heartbreakers. I know that sounds harsh but thats what I have experienced. The one I was involved with his best friend who was my friend also I questioned after the fact why didnt he protect me from that? His response was hey hes never had a relationship you should have protected yourself! Never again snd thank god I’m married now and i would never date again if ever single again in this life time. When I see match.com commercials on tv my husband and I both laugh like who needs that shit! Going out of your way grinding your ass off to impress some total stranger what a pain no thank you.

  23. 23
    j

    Im afraid I am one of those people who is skeptical of the never had a relationship guy after dealing with two of them. Never again. They get alot of undeserving sympathy in my experience as their cruelty know no bounds. Alot of well meaning friends and family worry and try to set them up. Forget it dont put a woman through that its nt fair to do that. They’re delusional ultra picky personality disordered lots of childhood issues. Never again would I ever go there again and after that experience I thank god I’m married now and off the marker. In fact when match.com commercials come on the tv now my husband and I both laugh and say we wouldn’t want to have to do hand stands to impress a complete stranger. No thanks. I wouldnt want to ever have to date again in this lifetime. Theres a reason why some people haven’t had a relationship its usually because they dont deserve one and are horrid!!!!!

    1. 23.1
      Robert

      In my view, it’s you who is being callous and horrid. You are judging millions of men based on one, apparently traumatic, experience.

  24. 24
    Robert

    36, male, same situation. I have only ever had one date in my life, when I was 24. She was a co-worker and it took me about a year to gather the courage to ask her out. After one drink the date was over because I just didn’t know what to say. Then when I was 26 I had my first and to date only kiss. Both the girl and I were extremely drunk at that point and I don’t remember much of it. My college days are long over now; my mother semi-permanently lives with me because of her bad health. When she dies, there will be nothing left to keep me on this earth.

    1. 24.1
      j

      Anyway i hope Robert you have forgiven me. I still feel terrible abour your reaction and wish you well. You have way more power than you know just need to use it. Be strong and be well.

    2. 24.2
      j

      And also Robert your mom is so lucky to have a son like you 

    3. 24.3
      mary

      You should get out of your comfort zone Robert! If you’re waiting a year to ask a girl out, that builds up all kinds of fantasies and expectations that are impossible for a lady to live up to. That sucks about your mother and you’re a kind person to look after her, but take time to make your life more awesome by doing something risky – go on a blind date, ask out a stranger when you’re buying groceries, get online. It won’t happen if you don’t put yourself in situations where it COULD happen! If you don’t know what to say, ask questions! If you want to make out, ask politely! I’ve kissed boys just because they asked nicely (and weren’t drunk idiots) – it works! Most things will fail, but every time you try something that makes you feel uncomfortable, the next uncomfortable thing will feel easier until it doesn’t feel uncomfortable anymore, just exciting. If you feel like this is impossible, it could be a great idea to take some time each week to see a professional counsellor or psychologist who could build up your self esteem and help you to push through whatever boundaries are keeping you from happiness. If you challenge yourself, eventually you’ll realise those boundaries are in your head – they don’t exist, and you can say FUCK YOU BOUNDARIES and walk right through them!

  25. 25
    J

    You’re right I did sound callous. I forget that there are some kind shy guys. Theres women like that too. I knew a woman mid forties that never dated because no one gave her any attention because she didn’t attract male attention. But she was obviously a neighbor certain woman just not considered hot so she wasn’t exploited which I envied but I’m sure she was lonely. Anyway I’m not aa horrid as I sound  really I’m probably too kind and trusting and that was my problem back then when single. I apologize to anyone I have offended. Life can be veey unfair to some peopke who are good and I hate that. Those arent the kind of folks I waa talking about. Sorry again.

  26. 26
    Ronald Messier

    I agree w/cj. I am painfully shy and socially anxious. I also fear rejection. I am 62 and have only had sex once. I was at my father’s in Ft Lauderdale,FL. A friend said no man my age should be a virgin. He took me to a prostitute. Whenever I am around a woman I become tongue-tied. I am confined to a wheelchair after an unfortunate accident in early 2005. I want to use this line. “Would a pretty lady like you like to go w/me for a spin?”. A dating coach near me said it has a lot of risk and has a lot of reward.

  27. 27
    stevo reid

    hey my friend i am 40 too and have had the same problem.and i expect your probably a nicer than average person.women arent really stimulated by the goodness or decensy of a mans heart,only the bullshit false sweetalk matters.so rather than listening to people tell you the scripted shopping list of what to say and do tp appease a woman.just relax in the fact that your not pulling because your too genuine.the right woman will see that in you hopefully i will find mine too 

    1. 27.1
      mary

      You’re so wrong – I love decent men, especially awkward nice guys. Maybe you’ve had experiences of being attracted to superficial women who are like that, but not all women are. If you think that “all women aren’t attracted to a kind heart and only care about a guy who can whisper the right words while paying for dinner”, you’re probably not allowing yourself to see or attract kind women, who may look or act differently to the others.

  28. 28
    Silk

    Before I start if you see an X it = wrong/shouldn’t have done it!
     
    Oh man, my heart actually aches when I read your predicament Mo. I am 36 go to college and in the same boat (a virgin). Trouble is I bet you I’ll reach 41  before you do :) Time just flies so fast. Anyway whatever you do and trust me on this one. DON’T TRUST WOMEN! I made that mistake by talking to a girl who gave me a boost of confidence said I looked like an comedian she likes. (First) X! Then we hang out together at the pub till like everyone else goes home then we say goodbye she calls and texts me wonder’s where I am, so cute so sweet (second) X! My fault I shouldn’t have called her back! and then finally the nail in the coffin! She knew I liked her, I told her I liked her! X She said I’m not at the stage of looking for a romantic relationship, I’m sure any girl would be happy to have you as a boyfriend X How many times have I heard that?!? I got angry said you should have told me that from the get go, she said she did! Not to my face she didn’t! So I thought fuck this! I don’t need a friend, I have heaps of those men AND women, so I said goodbye to her forever!
    I was nothing but nice and kind to her! Never make that mistake again!
    I thought women like nice guys! Boy was I wrong! I was talking to this hooker once at the pub and she got upset when I told her nice guys finish last! She got upset!!! I’m a nice guy, I always finish last!
    If a girl looks my way or even smiles, gonna completely ignore them!
    If I see her around college, which I doubt, or at the pub, I’m going to totally ignore not even acknowledge her!
    I’m sick of being rejected!
    Now I can’t stop thinking about her! That’s the only thing! I hate her so much! I hate myself even more for even thinking I had a chance!
    I don’t want to be single! I don’t want to have to pay for it either!
    I can’t deal with the heartache anymore! I’m sick of it!
    All women are crazy, cold and heartless, yet it’s my fault!
    I’ll end up being a 90 year old virgin and single! I was gonna say something else… But I’m seething, I’m so angry! I can’t take it anymore!
    Oh yeah, DON’T TRUST WOMEN EVER!
    I’d rather be single forever than have my heart broken again and again and again and again and again…
    All I can say is good luck Mo and break their hearts if they have any in the first place! :)
    Good luck! :)
     
     
     

    1. 28.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I let this sad letter through because it’s illuminating about how men also struggle with women. With his attitude (sadness, entitlement, negativity, anger), Silk is never going to do well, but I think it’s a window into a world we don’t see on this blog too often – the nice guy who thinks women are bitches for rejecting him. Silk, please don’t become another Eliot Rodger, okay? And go pick up a copy of Robert Glover’s “No More Mr. Nice Guy” while you’re at it.

      1. 28.1.1
        starthrower68

        I’ll say it again: unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the one you are mad at to die.

      2. 28.1.2
        Henriette

        @EMK re 28.  It is a sad letter but I’m not sure that Silk is actually a “nice” guy.  Too often in my 20s, I was the girl mentioned in the letter: genuinely friendly, enjoying the company of men and women and being my bubbly self.  Little did I realise that I was not supposed to enjoy and affirm any man unless I wanted to date him – that to do so would be considered “rejection” – that if I was not offering a romantic relationship that all overtures at friendship would be deemed insulting. 
        *sigh*
         
         

        1. Silk

          Okay, what do girls want in a man!?! What?!? Tell me, please. Good looks? Money? What!?! She laughed at all my jokes, she must have thought I was interesting otherwise she wouldn’t have hung around with me. She didn’t like my friends, so I sat with her instead of my friends. I was generous. She bought drinks, I bought drinks. I was always confident around her… What do you women want!?! What!?! Tell me. Please! Yeah, now I’m not nice, why should I be nice now after doing those things with every girl I’ve ever had a crush on and then being rejected. Oh don’t worry, you’ll probably say I’m just a creep that deserves to be miserable and alone. Fine! I’ll do that! I won’t approach any woman I like and that I have a crush ever! I’ll die, unloved alone and single! Happy? I’ll talk to my friends that ARE girls but the second, I have feelings for that special someone, I’ll just forget it and move on! And die alone! Thanks Henriette! Thanks. :)

        2. jeremy

          @Henriette,
          Forgive me if this is repetition – I’ve written this on one of Evan’s other postings, but it bears repeating.  Men and women (generally) have different concepts of friendship.  For many men, a friend is someone to do things with, rather than to be emotionally intimate with.  For that type of man, a woman who is bubbly and friendly and emotionally open with him is something entirely un-like his friendships with other men, and is often seen as a burgeoning relationship – especially if that man has not had many romantic relationships himself.  

          This is the quandary of the “nice guy”.  “Niceness” is a quality that men find sexually attractive in women, but is only a quality that women find “human” in men.  Men are expected to be nice in the same way they are expected to have a nose on their face.  Many men see women with “jerks” and believe that women don’t value niceness, and that is only partly true.  Women DO value niceness….but niceness is not a sexual attractant for them.  Thus, if a man is confident, passionate, good looking, etc., then “niceness” is the icing on the cake, and “jerkiness” is a pebble in it (though will get worse as time goes on).

          This isn’t to say that women should not pursue friendships with men, but rather advice that if a man appears to be overly committed – constantly following you around, offering help, etc – then realize he is an orbiter and not a friend, and do him a favor and cut him loose.

          And Silk, I feel for you man, but your attitude is not helping you.  Forget whether your feelings are justified or not.  Forget how right you are and how wrong you think others have been.  Read the book Evan recommended (it will help you).  And after that, try to approach new situations from a fresh perspective – not all women will be like the one(s) you had bad experiences with, and in fact if you have 99 bad experiences and only 1 good one, that 1 good one may be all you need. 

        3. Henriette

          @jeremy – a sincere thank you.  I do understand this, now I’m in my 40s.  In my 20s, I understood in theory but was unskilled at recognising the signs and truly thought it presumptuous to imagine that a guy who was nice to me must be “interested” so no doubt misinterpreted many signals through the years. 
           
          I simply take issue with the anger that I see so often directed (on the internet, especially by Red Pill types) at young women who may or may not have a sense of how to manage the friendship vs. romantic interest issue.  All too often, it’s explained by the MRA community as these girls purposely toying with nice guys and then having unrestricted sex with jerks and players.   The result is many fellows who’ve had their feelings hurt by rejection turn that sadness to resentment and rage.   
           
          I am trying to present the other side to readers like Silk; there are lovely young women “out there” who are doing their imperfect best to graciously navigate the treacherous dating waters.   Yes, there are heaps of user girls (and guys!) who purposely string along interested parties.   But there are also plenty of girls who are like I used to be: simply doing the best they can to interpret ~ not always correctly ~ what they think is happening. 
           
          I received a fair share of attention in my younger years but never dated a jock or a rich guy or a player; the only men I’ve ever slept with were long-term boyfriends; two of these long-term boyfriends were what some have rudely referred to as “geeks,” “nerds” or “dorks.”   I also have lovely girlfriends who were ignored and passed over time and again by these “nice guys” in favour of flirty teases so presumably rejection of kind, sweet, unassuming people goes both ways.   Instead of becoming embittered by the dating process, it would great if the nice people could just strengthen their resolve to find each other amid the sea of less-than-nice candidates.

        4. mary

          Silk, different girls want different things in a man. Some girls want Alphas, some want Betas (give me an awkward Beta!), some want good looks, money, houses, humour – all of the above. Girls all have different personalities, desires and attitudes. Thinking that all girls are the same – bitches – and holding onto that hate will not only drive nice girls away (if that’s what you’re looking for), but will make you feel awful and wanting to die alone. Maybe you should talk to someone, find a happy place, and work on dating women who you may not at first have a huge crush on, but women with whom you feel mutual respect, compatability and think are alright looking. If you limit or have limited yourself to girls who you have crushes on or think might be “that special someone”, it’s clear that this strategy isn’t working – so try a new one! But see a professional about your past hurts first, or you’re at risk of fulfilling your own prophecy and being single forever.

          And I would like to REFUTE the “girls don’t like nice guys” line, maybe it’s an American thing but there are lots of girls who would love a nice man – maybe the nice guys are going for the wrong girls, or just not asking (nicely) for what they want.

        1. jeremy

          Mickey, yeah, that article was full of a mixture of truth and nonsense, of expectations and entitlements.  Forget that article and distill it down to this: Be honest in your intentions.  Forget the word “nice” – it is misleading.  Be HONEST.  If you like a girl, ask her out, rather than trying to be her “friend” and slipping past her defenses.  If she rejects you, move on.  If she accepts you, go for it.  But don’t hide your intentions under a mask of false pretenses. 
           
          There is a world of difference between these 2 situations of “niceness”:
          1) a man who asks a woman out on a legitimate date, she gets drunk, and he drives her home and sees her safely off.  This man is honest (wants a relationship with her and lets her know it), but is also legitimately “nice”.
          2) a man fears rejection so offers friendship to a girl instead of asking her out on a date.  They go drinking together, and he hopes that she will get drunk enough to sleep with him.  Such a man is false – his niceness is manipulative.
           
          Niceness is not an attractant to women.  Women want men whom they find attractive in other ways, and once they have those men, they hope those men will be nice.  Understand that, and focus your efforts to impress women in other directions.

  29. 29
    Silk

    Don’t know why i’m telling you this, but just to clarify I didn’t ask her out the first night. I should have said to cut a long story short. This happened over the course of 2 months. Final day of the second month is when I asked her out! P.S. I won’t become another Eliot Rodger because I’m not going to talk to girls ever again! For fear of rejection over along period of time of liking someone then having my heart broken yet again. I’m going to avoid them all together if I see someone I like, avoid them. I’m still going to talk to my friends that ARE girls, but as for that special one! Forget! I’ll be single and lonely forever! So don’t worry I’m NEVER going to be a Eliot Rodger, that’s for sure! I want to be famous for something good not evil! P.P.S I don’t think I’m entitled and I never call women the b word! Ever! Just cold, cruel and heartless!
    And FYI she wanted to see my… You know, but I didn’t show her… That’s was also a big
    confidence booster too because no girl has ever said that to me… Ever!
    But whatever… Don’t worry about me, I’m perfectly happy to remain single and unloved and lonely from that one special person of the opposite sex, forever!
    Thanks for the advice, though. Even though it was a suggestion to read a book! (ergh!) :)
     
     

    1. 29.1
      twinkle

      I think maybe u could just put yourself in situations where u meet more women, and don’t hope too much (cos clearly u find it hard when u get your hopes up and it doesn’t work out). At least u have lots of friends so it’s not like u don’t get enough social interaction. I think u’d find online dating disappointing, and u don’t seem to handle disappointment well; it’s a pity because lots of pple met their future spouse on OL dating, but after meeting many pple it didn’t work with–including our own Evan I think, and Julia a commenter met tens of pple before meeting her future fiance. But it takes a certain upbeat perseverence which I think u may not have.

      Just yesterday night I met a Swiss guy on a first date–40, over 6 feet tall, attractive, successful, nice personality. And he’s single, and he says he’s not contentedly-single either, just hasn’t managed to click with the right person yet. He doesn’t take it personally (his singledom), just goes out and tries to make more friends, stays confident, and hopes to meet the ‘right’ woman. That’s a healthy attitude to take.

      1. 29.1.1
        Mickey

        Having an upbeat perseverance is all well and good, I guess. But when it gets ripped out of you, as it’s obviously happened here, how do you get it back…if you can get it back?

    2. 29.2
      starthrower68

      How old are you? Your writing would indicate you are quite young.

      1. 29.2.1
        Mickey

        I’m 50.

    3. 29.3
      mary

      Fear is a huge motivator – don’t let fear of rejection keep you from getting what you want.

  30. 30
    Silk

    Look… All I want as corny as it sounds is someone to love and someone to love me for who I am and visa versa. Is that really so much to ask for? I don’t want to be alone… And quite frankly I don’t give a s@# about what anyone writes or thinks, I just want to be happy with someone, and make someone happy. Is that too much to ask?!? But you know… whatever… You people have made up your mind that I’m a creep and that I’ve got a “bad” attitude… So you know what… F$%^ it! You’re on the internet. Your and my opinion does not count! So… I’ll leave you with this one “nice” simple suggestion…? Love… Just love. :)
     

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