Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex

If you’ve ever wondered why it seems that men are okay with no-strings-attached sex while women tend to suffer with this arrangement, watch this video closely.

It affirms everything that I’ve ever written about sex and gender in a very logical, concrete manner. In short, women teach men how to treat them. And if, due to equality, birth-control, libido, societal acceptance, and insecurity, many women are willing to have sex with men who don’t call, pay, commit, or make an effort, then those women are essentially teaching men that they do not have to behave well to procure sex.

You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him.

My advice is not to tell men that they shouldn’t sleep with women; it’s to tell women that you must have men make a greater investment in you as individuals before having sex.

This is why I created the 2/2/2 rule to screen men through the online dating process.
This is why I say you should wait 5-6 weeks before he’s your boyfriend.
This is why I tell you not to have sex outside of commitment.

You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.

Note: there will be no comments about slut-shaming, since no one is shaming anyone, nor calling anyone a slut. Nor will there be comments about how you slept with your boyfriend on the first date and he became your husband. The many exceptions don’t disprove the rule that giving men sex without demanding better treatment is not the best idea.


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  1. 1
    Dina Strange

    Great post, Evan. Thank you, thank you so much for saying it just as it is…you truly give invaluable advice to women, and i wish more of them would listen!

  2. 2

    Ummmmmm.  I agree that if a heterosexual relationship is going to go anywhere, generally the woman has to put the sexual brakes on early in the relationship while the emotional side establishes itself.  I believe this because, unfortunately, my own romantic history is somewhat littered with examples of me not doing this and things not ending well, until I eventually realised I had to play the delaying-sex card if I wanted the relationship to have a shot at being serious.  But I have to say I’m personally not sure that this is anything to do with how men and women just naturally “are”.  I do think it has a lot to do with social roles and expectations for men and women in our culture.  OK, I have a pretty high sex drive. I’ve had a higher sex drive than almost all men I’ve ever dated.  But I certainly have other female friends with that issue.  So on early dates, if I’ve been single for a while and I’m attracted to the person, frankly, I’m really horny.  Especially once there’s been a bit of kissing etc going on, 90% of me is clamoring to jump this man’s bones and get him into bed, NOW.  But I know really I shouldn’t.  The man in question, if you ask me, generally has the same internal clash between 90% raging hormones and 10% knowing we probably shouldn’t go there yet.  But it’s my job to get a grip on my hormones (and believe me, that is NOT easy) and say no.  Because, um, society has dictated that’s my job and not his.  Frankly, I find it boring, occasionally almost physically painful, and a bit unfair.  But one of us has to put the brakes on – I accept this – and apparently it has to be me.  I find that as outdated as the one paying for dinner having to be him, but there you go.  Social stereotyping is such that women are allowed and even on some level expected to turn down a good number of sexual opportunities, whereas men are expected to always be up for it.  Personally I don’t think that reflects the true state of male vs female libidos.  But it sure does reflect Western gender roles.  Sigh.  

    1. 2.1

      I cant agree more with you on this!! my sex drive tends to be very high also and if i date someone im very attracted, i just want to have sex with him right away and yup its hard to do it, but oh well like you said, society sets thats our responsability in order to get a healthy relationship. I think that if the man is worth the wait, he treats me well, he is fun, romantic, then its a lot easier to wait,  5 weeks its not that long i guess…

  3. 3

    Liz: thank you so, so much for sharing my feelings. Nature or nurture questions aside, it is hard not to feel frustrated and even saddened to have to take primary responsibility for delaying sex. I am a highly sensual woman and when I feel a kinship, easy communication along with a magnetic attraction to a good man, I have THE most difficult time saying no. The desire for sexual union is so strong that I feel like a total slave to my body and hormones in those moments. If only it were so easy to be the gatekeeper.  While I agree for the most part with Evan’s observations, this is the oversight in every analysis out there: that women aren’t as lusty as men are. More discriminating? For sure. But if I feel an emotional +sexual+mental+spiritual connection, you bet your ass what I’m really thinking about all night is being in bed with him. And there is that difference again that keeps burning me because I don’t change this behavioral pattern of mine: I’m the one who’s having the emotional attachment and story about it…not them.

  4. 4

    Interesting post Evan and video… But it does slice both ways. Recently I met a woman online (she is 61; I am 58) and we seem to have a nice positive energy.  We did flirt a bit with each other, which we both enjoyed… but it was flirting, not ‘lets make a deal’ scenario.  In the second call I made to her I told I could not see her for a week as I was out of town and made other plans for the following weekend.  She zeroed in on ‘who was I seeing besides her’ and that she made very clear that she “wanted to be courted before anything would happen” physically.  Then she proceeded to tell me that she tell me that she was ‘disappointed’ that iin the first call I mentioned , I normally don’t bring flowers/candy on first dates (heavy investment)  but rather start casually (coffee/drink) and go from there.  She again told me she can have sex at any time, and she wanted something more in a relationship before anything physical.  It was the ‘more’ part that made me wonder exactly she had to offer to make any one sided demands to me.
    I was taken aback by her menu driven dating and began to lose interest….quickly.  I don’t date pushy or demanding women.  (If that’s what I wanted, I would still be married!!)    I want warm, feminine energy directed towards me, not negotiating.    Sex is easy .. a relationship is a journey.  If these interactions are not at least playful and easy from the start, they rarely ever become.  
    End of story:    I never called her back; nor did I ever meet her.

    1. 4.1
      Dina Strange

      Some women like to be courted…that’s what makes her feel feminine.

      1. 4.1.1

        I share your sentiment but I’ll add that just because a woman likes to be courted, that doesn’t mean she should place demands on a man before she’s even met him. If it were me, and a guy said that he wanted to go out with me, but we’d have to schedule a date after he gets back from a trip next week, I’d say, “That’s fine! Have fun!” Then wait and see if he calls after his trip. That’s how it should be in the beginning. You don’t get treated well by laying down the law. You SHOW the guy what you find acceptable through your actions. And I think she went a little far with the flowers and candy bit. I’d much rather have a guy think of those things on his own, and not just give them to me because I asked him to. It’s much more romantic if women just let the guy court them the way the guy wants to do it.

    2. 4.2
      Evan Marc Katz

      I don’t blame you, Greg. That woman was a shitty date and was interviewing you for the part of being her husband. That’s very different than saying after five great dates when she’s back at your place that she doesn’t like sleeping with men who have active profiles, don’t you think?

    3. 4.3

      Greg@4- I must admit that this woman sounds like a real piece of work, but I am curious, what prompted you to tell her that you don’t bring candy & flowers (heavy investment)on a first date ?  Did she ask, or did you just volunteer
      that ?  I don’t expect such things  on a first date, but I would be put off my a man who would put that out there unprompted.  I wouldn’t tell a man what I “don’t do” in the early getting to know you stage, unless he directly asked me.  Even though there are lots of things I don’t do, on a first date or EVER, I wouldn’t tell a guy my “to don’t ” list.  I certainly wouldn’t tell a guy I could have sex at any time either like she did.   Also, if a guy told me he was going out of town for a week, I would tell him to have fun !  I would also never expect to hear from him again, because EVERY guy who ever told me he was going out of town, and would call me when he got back NEVER has.  So I have come to believe it is some sort of way of ending the interaction without coming right out and saying “Now that I’ve talked on the phone with you, I’m not interested”
      I am just curious, were you really going out of town ?  Not trying to give you a hard time, but I am just wondering, if  “going out of town” is sort of the guy equivalent of a girl saying “I’m really kinda busy the next coupla weeks” 
      BTW, I am with you on keeping the first getting to know you dates, low or no cost and low key.  I PREFER that,  first dates should be focusing on getting to know each other.  I would rather a guy spend his TIME than his DIME in the early phases.  It’s really awkward to turn a guy down for a second date  after he has brought flowers, and taken a girl out to an expensive meal.  I’d like to save the really fancy stuff until things are really starting to look “relationship possible” and until I meet a guy face to face, I can’t really know by his profile.  

  5. 5
    Ann Erskine

    As an older woman and a sex therapist one thing that you are overlooking Evan (and I do remember the world precontraceptive pill) is that when women withhold sex or ration it or whatever term you choose to fit with the idea of sexual “economics” the suppress their sexuality band desire. Then we start seeing lack of arousal as a major psychological problem for women. And that’s a problem for men….married or single.

  6. 6

    They never mentioned divorce rates as why men wont marry…If u can guarantee a man that this particular woman will always be his things might be different. But since the very woman that wanted your commitment could very likely be the very woman to cheat on u, divorce, and try to take your children and future earnings away what is the point…Evan excuse me for this but us men that read your blog faithfully are tired of you giving women a past and trying to make them seem like these innocent flowers that would never hurt a soul. There are alot of men that would beg to differ. #teamvasectomy

    1. 6.1
      Dina Strange

      What are you talking about? Evan never takes sides – he just presents facts or his own opinions. I don’t think he ever gave “pass” to women or men.

  7. 7

    As a woman who is looking for a long term relationship — not marriage or cohabitation — I found the article to be very depressing.    The video makes me feel that making a guy wait isn’t actually the best solution for this supply and demand scenario because if you don’t have sex with him another woman (i.e. your competition will).   So,  if you have sex, you lose and if you don’t have sex, you lose as well.  This is especially the case if you are dating a man who is highly desirable.    
    One thing this video didn’t acknowledge is that not all men are created equal in their access to sex.  Based on this blog as well as many others that I have read as well as dating sites, there are tons of guys who are not getting sex at all.    So, it seems that the best solution is to date the men that other woman don’t really want and wait to have sex with him until there is commitment.  Now that I think about, I guess that is what Evan has been saying when he mentions not going for the Alpha Guy or the guy who is rich, tall, educated etc.  Yet, when I think about in economic terms  and that what  it really means  is date the guy that other women don’t want, it makes me feel like a loser.  
    I was doing some soul searching the a few weeks ago and when I looked at my list for what I wanted in a boyfriend, I realized that if I was really honest with myself, I was looking for a man that would do two things:  1.  Validate me (confirm to ME that I am lovable) hence my desire for him to share the same interests, values, and beliefs, and 2.  Elevate Me (show OTHERS that I am special and worthy) hence my desire for him to be handsome, successful, and cultured.  

    1. 7.1

      Your responses are telling.  You are publicly admitting to solipsism and self absorption – only interested in how a man makes you look to the wider world.  You are explicitly stating that a man being a loser makes you a loser by association – great sentiments.  good luck finding a man with that attitude.  Would love to know what you bring to the table, demanding he be better than you.

  8. 8

    Nice visualisation of ideas i’ve heard before. I am a 27 year old female with a strong sex drive. I would say stronger than my 37 year old BF. Im in an interesting position because I very much want to get married and start a family etc..I had a BF from a South American background at 18 – 23 who probably would of married me, his culture is like that. But I wasn’t ready and I had issues. These issues existed before him, so yeah I needed that journey. That journey turned into lots of casual sex. I went through a stage where I was uncomfortable about this sex. Not because I didn’t like the sex, I had no problem with it, but because eventually my values changed and I was concerned about it would affect my chances of find a great guy for marriage. Eventually I stopped torturing myself – I accepted my high sex drive. I decided that if my high number and possible climbing of it (it did slow down) then so be it I’d continue life partnerless. Then I meet the 37 BF. Ten years difference. I had made a mental decision about sticking to the older guys as I was finding younger guys so wishy washy. To be fair though, I turned down a fair few guys interested in more than sex when I was sleeping around but I also turned down those indecisive imature ones as well. Im not saying me and the BF will get married, but its going well so far. While I agree that jumping into sex when you want to invest into a meaningful relationship is a huge risk – I also found out that my BF is a catch and we slept together on our third date. I don’t think he would of dumped me so quick but if I’d waited longer than 5 or 6 – then his interest would of wondered. I know this because we spoke to a girlfriend of mine and she said she was going to make a guy wait 90 days. He bluntly said that if she did that too him no matter how hot she was or how good the connection then he would have issue. Because frankly there are lots of other girls of her calibre out there who’d go for him so bye bye…interesting point. I basicly said to him that for me its about timing and if he’s at the right time to let himself fall in love and commit then im down. If he’s not im gone. It made no difference whether we had sex early or not. Because he could get sex any time anyway and so can I.

  9. 9

    The quality and availability of pornography might be the one thing that might makes the practice of women uniting and withholding sex until marriage less effective today than it has been in the past.  Many men would prefer to watch porn than actually have sex with a woman, not only because of the obvious lack of downside risks associated with it, but some even find it to be more desirable because 1.) The women are better looking than any woman they know, let alone any woman they could actually have sex with, and 2) They learn to stimulate themselves in a way that can’t be replicated when they’re with a partner.  As a result, the range of things that turn them on becomes narrower and narrower, and anything that a real woman can realistically provide begins to fall outside of that range.  The long and short of it is that I don’t think sex is as strong of a bargaining chip as it used to be.  You’re going to have to bring something else to the table.
    What does this all mean?  Well, I think the advice of waiting until you are in a relationship before you have sex is good advice since it helps women avoid the emotional attachment that comes with sex, which can cause you to become vulnerable since a relationship hasn’t been established and set you up for a more severe heartbreak.  However, I wouldn’t expect men to suddenly be willing to commit to marriage at the same rate that they have in the past as the video appears to suggest.  (Btw, I know that not all women become emotionally attached after sex, and whether the ones that do is a result of culture or biology is up for a debate that I don’t really care to have.)

    1. 9.1

      Agree.  Porn makes it so hard to relate to women as human beings.  In my opinion our relationships would go more smoothly and we would be less suspicious of each other if we understood the other gender better as human beings. 

  10. 10

    I dated a man for a year and a half and never had sex with him, but was more emotionally attached to him than any man I ever dated and had sex with…

    1. 10.1

      Thank you for confirming that sex isn’t what necessarily gets women emotionally attached 

    2. 10.2

      I’ve waited too long a few times, wanted to know who I would be sleeping with, wanted to be friends first, build that solid foundation….unfortunately they ended up in the “friend zone” as I lost my lust for them.  It started to feel too awkward and not natural.   lol.  Timing is everything.

  11. 11

    I used to think that I was getting bonded to men because of sex, because of my past incarnations of dating.  However, in this incarnation of dating, there have been a few guys that I sooooooo wanted to have sex with very quickly but didn’t because there wasn’t any sort of commitment or exclusivity established and it was way to soon for that.  Well, of course they didn’t call after I put the brakes on sex, and not in a nagging, scolding “you are such a pervert way”.  And guess what ?  I still felt disappointed and rejected even tho we only kissed & cuddled.   So I don’t think I have gotten “bonded” in the past because I had sex, I think I’ve had sex in the past, because I was already starting to feel bonded.   Now I know to wait until HE is starting to feel bonded to me.  I doubt that any of those guys would have stuck around if I caved in to my hormones, and who knows, maybe I would have felt even MORE disappointed and bonded had I done that.  (Not only that, but mad at myself, for sharing my body so soon with someone who didn’t care about me) 
    At least one good thing about dating in my late 50′s, the disappointment that I feel in this regard, is much shorter lived and not nearly as intense as was in my 20′s.

  12. 12

    SE:  So I don’t think I have gotten “bonded” in the past because I had sex, I think I’ve had sex in the past, because I was already starting to feel bonded.
    Yes.  I believe that’s true of me as well.  It wasn’t sex that made me feel “bonded” to someone, rather the desire for sex was part of feeling a connection that could lead to bonding.
    Sex or no sex, it’s disappointing when the other person doesn’t feel the same connection you do.

  13. 13

    Aaaaaaand THIS is why so many women hate men… when we like someone we see his worth as extending beyond his genitals and what he lets us do with them early on.  What this video is saying is that men REQUIRE a degree of rejection before they start to really like you, and yet many men have said they don’t even know IF they really like a girl until after they’ve had sex with her, so waiting TOO long is moot. What this says to me is that either men are full of sh*t and  there is something fundamental about themselves they won’t own up to, or getting sex out of the way early on so the clouds of lust can dissipate and give each person a more clear view of who they have in front of them IS an acceptable way to go. 
    The few guys I pulled away from romantically after sex are the guys I was NEVER THAT ATTRACTED TO to begin with, meaning guys who I thought were just cute enough to have sex with, but not attractive enough for to develop feelings for, guys I used to fill some kind of void for affection or validation etc. And the guys I did that with are extremely extremely rare. Everyone else I’ve slept with could have easily had a real relationship with me if they asked. 
    Generally if a girl is sleeping with a guy, before they even got to the sex she has already decided to a degree on his quality and potential as a partner which is why she is always more primed for a relationship after sex.  Women don’t just choose body parts to sleep with, we choose the whole person, so yes looks are primary, but then the estimation of your identity follows closely. We choose for BOTH when we decide to have sex with you which is why the most physically gorgeous guy can get turned down for sex by even an average looking girl if his overall identity is too out of character for what that girl typically goes for and is attracted to.  
    I appreciate Ann Erksine #5 for offering her wisdom and experience not just as an older woman but as a psychological professional. Women conditioning themselves to be disinterested in sex because of the way men can’t handle having sex with someone right away without seeing them as “less than valuable” is  a great way to keep men from getting enough sex even AFTER they’ve committed to marriage. Men don’t get to have it both ways. If our culture starts once again demanding and creating chaste women, you’re going to get chaste women through and through. Don’t expect women to shut down what’s human in them and then turn it back on to your liking after the commitment is made. Once we start teaching women again to associate sex with some hit to their worth, EVERYONE will suffer. Single, OR married. 

  14. 14

    In Québec (Canada), women are supposed to be “dominant” in courting and relationship. I wouldn’t know, since I dated mostly European. I find them more gentlemen-like, and I like not wondering if the guy is ever going to pay on our first date, be confident, etc. – Europeans tend to act manlier, well I thought so. Not so much of a truth now that I have more experience in life. 
    So, I decided to date men my own culture. It’s a bit of a drag, since I have no experience at all with Quebequers and am told that the gender roles are reversed : man waiting for you to call, woman pushing for whatever they want (another cliché actually – man wants what man wants). I am (was?) dating a guy this past 2 weeks and we had sex on the second date (ahhhh hormones), was great and everything. What I found out is that he is now basically only interested in getting sex (who could blame him) and that I am not interested in him now that we had sex…
    It’s like two dudes dating!! I found out he is boring in bed, good thing I know now before I invest emotionnally, financially, etc., in this guy, no?

  15. 15

    We woman are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Have sex too soon and you’re considered too easy. Wait too long and the guy will get it somewhere else. While I wouldn’t advise a woman to have sex on the first date, I don’t really think that having sex sooner rather than later makes a man any more or less likely to commit. 
    IMO, a woman should have sex when she’s comfortable with it. If it makes you feel more comfortable or secure to wait, then wait. if you can handle the consequences of having sex in an uncommitted relationship, then do that. But neither stance is going to make a man any more or any less likely to commit. If a man wants to be in a relationship, and really likes a particular woman, it won’t matter to him if a woman has sex with him on date 2 or date 10. If a man doesn’t want a relationship or isn’t so into the woman, waiting won’t make him more relationship-oriented, but it might keep a woman who’s dating him from getting more emotionally invested and more hurt. 
    Since so many women have benefited from having contraceptive options, I find the idea that contemporary sex “clearly favors” men a bit ludicrous. Unless, of course, you deny the fact that women have sex drives, or might want to wait a bit before they marry. 
    And does the video only apply to young people? What about the largest-growing segment of the dating population, singles over 50? They’ve already had kids, or know they don’t want them, and women generally don’t have to worry about birth control much by age 55.

  16. 16
    Evan Marc Katz

    There is a staggering level of straw man thinking displayed here.  I’ll write back to all of you when I have the bandwidth to compose a lengthy reply.  I sincerely feel bad if you think that you don’t have the capacity to delay intercourse because a) you WANT to have sex (even though it’s been proven to be generally a bad idea and makes women overall less happy or b) you’re afraid he’ll leave. I promise: if he really likes you, he’s not going anywhere (yes, even if he’s an alpha male). If he goes away, he didn’t really like you that much.

  17. 17

    I look forward to Evan’s response to these comments! I do agree with Evan that it’s best to wait and that’s what I now practice because of reading this blog, but that doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
    I see where everyone is coming from. I’ve dated and certainly get a lot of attention from men online and in the real world, but I rarely sleep with any of them (not that they don’t try really hard!) for the reason that I want to see if they are serious. Most of them, it turns out, are looking for hookups. Even the nice guys. But where does that leave me?  Without sex for months, even years, on end! I dated one guy last year for several months, I made him wait, and it ended anyway. Prior to that, it was two years since I was involved with anyone.
    And even when you do wait, it’s no guarantee he won’t dump you for any number of reasons weeks later. That, too, is another reason I end up without a sex life; because you might get dumped anyway, even by the nice ones you waited for. Making them wait for sex is no guarantee of anything.
    It makes you think men still have the control in the end. 

  18. 18

    Meh, I’ve never been a fan of the materialist POV regarding relations; this video I find particularly not good in other ways too (bashing pesticides and the misuse of “irony” at about 7:45). Also, look close enough and you’ll find this is a thinly veiled conservative joint (so surprised to find this on the blog ;).
    As to the general premise of the video and this blog; why the “market power” of women has dropped and how it is women came to train mean to treat them poorly; it’s all the things They said would actually greatly enhance the “market power” of women – The Pill, condoms, abortion, single mom welfare, women-centric employment laws, and most notably, women-centric punitive divorce court culture. Sadly, these things have done exactly the opposite – men have more “market power” than ever (both in marriage and casual sex, despite the video claiming otherwise regarding the latter).
    Now that my ranting is done ;) the general premise of this blog entry is of course good advice.

  19. 19

    I agree with Evan, I think if the guy likes you enough (AND he’s looking to settle down) then he will wait. I am 32 and waiting until marriage and have absolute faith that the right guy will not mind waiting (much) because he’ll know, if he wants to marry me, that we’ll have the rest of our lives to have sex. I have a high sex drive too, so I’m not saying it won’t be difficult for me to wait. I just think it’s better to wait for moral as well as emotional reasons. I’d be shattered if a guy left after having his way with me. I always knew that about myself and so I chose to wait. The right guy who comes along at the right time will appreciate me more for waiting, even if he grumbles a bit about it.

    1. 19.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I am NOT saying wait until marriage. No one should have to wait two years to have sex. I’m only saying wait until you both have determined whether you have relationship potential instead of fucking first and asking questions later. I’m amazed at how complicated this concept is.

      1. 19.1.1

        I never said that you said that, Evan. I said that because that is what I believe in. And what would be so bad about waiting until marriage? Statistically, couples who wait until after they tie the knot tend to have much shorter courtships (as in less than 2 years – where did you get that number anyway?), they develop better communication skills both in and out of the bedroom, and have a much stronger commitment to each other because they waited. Sure, they might have to try to do things to avoid temptation, things that other couples don’t have to worry about. But in the end, that tends only to increase their passion once they’re actually married. And it’s so much more special that way. I want to be able to look my husband in the eye on my wedding day and tell him, “I saved myself for you, because I loved you long before I met you.” Even if he’s not a virgin, I don’t think he’ll be at all unappreciative of a gift like that.

      2. 19.1.2

        I did wait for two years,well it was long distance relationship but it does not mean the wait was any easier, & guess what Evan :P even then we choose not to have intercourse ,cz I knew he gonna go away soon & leave me sad & blue out there,…Crazy Isn’t it,…
        What I mean is that you really can wait as a woman but only if u want to,…

  20. 20

    I’m skeptical from experience that says otherwise.
    I can respect the 3rd date rule. If a guy can put some time, effort, and money into planning three nonsexual excuses to hang out, then he may have good intentions. If he can’t keep it zipped for three dates, he is probably using you.
    Guys however have to watch out for the 5th date rule. If it takes a girl longer than 5 dates to figure out if she wants sex, she is probably a waste of time. She may have issues, low sex drive, or she just likes the attention of being chased. Beautiful women have lured me into breaking this rule, and I have been burned every time.
    Just because a guy has sex with you doesn’t mean he’s interested. Duh.
    Just because a girl lets you buy dinner doesn’t mean she’s interested. 
    If a woman has consistent, and clearly defined values, that’s different. If a woman is up front about the fact that she doesn’t have sex outside of marriage, then I respect her for not wasting either of our time. Best of luck to her. I hope she meets a nice guy at church.
    If a woman has any kind of consistent, objective, clearly defined boundary, I’d at least know what to expect. Tell me on the first date that you have a 50th date rule, and I can decide if it’s worth breaking my 5th date rule. 
    What I watch out for is inconsistency, mixed messages, and moving goal posts. As a man, it is preposterous for me to imagine not knowing if you want to have sex with someone. I wouldn’t go on a second date unless I wanted sex. If you can’t figure that out, you have issues. 
    Guys know it is wrong to use a woman for sex. Everyone hates a guy who does that.
    Women can be willfully in denial of the ways they use men. They like the attention. Ever notice that guys don’t put women in the friend box. We either want sex, a relationship, or nothing. We don’t string insecure women along because it is fun to have a girlfriend without benefits. I have female friends, but I don’t pseudo-date them. I’m clear about my intentions. Women think their friendship is a worthy consolation prize after 20 expensive dates. Dating is an expenditure of a man’s limited resources. Men need to ration their assets just like women.
    This is why EMK’s advice seems unrealistic for anyone not wearing a promise ring. Dates without sex makes a guy feel used, just like sex without dates makes a girl feel used.
    If a woman wants to follow this advice, she should;
    #1 be honest and up front about it. 
    #2 She should claim it as her personal boundary, not a challenge that “all men are jerks, so you have to prove yourself”,
    #3 She should make it clear that this boundary is consistent for all men. Don’t imply that you used to have wild sex, but now you want to become a frigid housewife. That scares us. 
    #4 she should initiate and pay for half the dates, and make sure he has fun doing awesome stuff that guys like. 
    #5 she should lower her standards and find a shy, introverted guy who has no internet connection, otherwise, 6 weeks is long enough to date and have sex with 4 other women. Guys are good at math.  

    1. 20.1

      5 dates is nothing. You could have 5 dates in two weeks and that is just not enough time. Women know they want sex, so it isn’t a question of us not knowing. I want sex, but after marriage. Am I going to tell a guy that on the first three dates? No, because if I did then I’d either look like a frigid bitch or a scared little girl. If he can’t be bothered to spend time getting to know me before any talk of sex comes up, he’s not worth my time. And just because a woman goes out with you and doesn’t rip your clothes off within 5 dates doesn’t mean she has a low sex drive or that she’s just using you for free dinners. Maybe she’s been burned too, and doesn’t want to be taken advantage of. Or maybe she really wants a relationship that’s based on something other than just orgasms. I agree completely with you that a woman needs to have boundaries for the right reasons. I’m waiting until marriage because I believe that it’s the right thing to do morally. Not only that, but it will mean more – my wedding night will not be just like “any other time”. I want my future husband to know that I sacrificed immediate gratification so that I could give myself to him completely. My body is a gift for one man alone, and since there is only one guy this gift is meant for, it doesn’t really bother me if a guy disappears after a few dates with no nookie.
      If you really like a girl, and you feel yourself falling for her and think she might be The One, I think you’ll be surprised at how long you can wait. What’s a few months compared to the rest of your life?
      Obviously, you aren’t in that mindset right now if you’re thinking about having sex with four women around the same time.

      1. 20.1.1

        Mmmmm….sorry Jenn, if you want to wait till marriage to have sex you gotta be honest from the getgo cause only men with the same values will wait that long.  Maybe you should write it down on your profile too, why waste time with most guys who won’t take on your offer?  It doesn’t make sense to me.

        1. SparklingEmerald

          Fungirl @ 20.1.1 – Do you think a man who NEVER intends to marry should be honest from the getgo ?  Should he put it in his profile ?  Should he tell a girl, I want to have sex with as many women as I can, but I NEVER want to marry or have children ?

        2. Jenn

          I don’t talk about my sex life (or lack thereof) with strangers I met on the street so why would I put that in my profile? That’s no one’s business, unless it’s a guy I’ve been seeing for a little while and it looks like things are getting serious. Do you walk up to random people on the street, say hi and tell them how many guys you’ve had sex with? I don’t consider it “wasting time” to have a few dates with a guy and then have things not work out, for whatever reason. As far as guys not taking me up on my offer, I’m fine with that because they’re not the one for me. It has yet to even be an issue, to be honest. I tend to only go on dates with men who seem to have a genuine interest in finding a lasting relationship.  So in my experience, the sex thing doesn’t even come up within the first few dates. When a guy brings it up, I will tell him then, but I’ve learned that every guy has their own “sex timetable”. If I bring it up before the drinks have made it to the table on the first date, and the guy wasn’t even expecting to get busy until the three month mark, that’s probably a bit off-putting to him. If I come off like I’m already thinking about the wedding before the appetizers have been served, what kind of impression do you think that leaves on a guy?

        3. Joe

          @ SE: He should do exactly that, except he can use more oblique language, like, “I’m just here looking to have fun.”  That’s a pretty clear indication of his interest.  Just like she should say something like, “I’m looking to get married, not jump into bed.”

    2. 20.2
      Dina Strange

      Read first 4 sentences and thought to myself: “What a pile of nonsense.”

  21. 21

    Evan said: I promise: if he really likes you, he’s not going anywhere (yes, even if he’s an alpha male). If he goes away, he didn’t really like you that much.
    This seems to be such a difficult concept for a lot of women to grasp.
    Free at last, (thanks to the pill from an unwanted pregnancy) women have found out that they are able to have sex and really enjoy themselves, yay! Absolutely nothing wrong with that in my book. 
    Evan’s premise that men do what they want when they want, has now turned into women do what they want when they want. There’s a kind of weird double standard going on here, women want to be just like men, having sex whenever with whomever. Now the complaints are running thick and fast about the perfidy of men who won’t commit and have a string of women they can sleep with, just like women who can have their own string of men to sleep with, with no commitment. Or are you secretly thinking that having sex with a guy is going to make him commit to you, it won’t.
    Ladies, it has ALWAYS been up to women to say NO and this has been true since Adam was a boy.
    It has ALWAYS been true that if a ‘product’ has been cheap, easily available and replaceable it doesn’t have a high value and can easily be discarded. Do you keep your disposable coffee cups or take out food containers? No? That seems to be how sex is valued by so many people these days. Hmmm, really great cup of coffee, I so enjoyed that, I’d better keep the disposable paper cup …
    What on earth is so wrong with waiting to have sex. If you want to meet a good man who is really interested in you and wants to be with you, why can’t you wait for sex until he shows you he really does care for you. I know what I think of a man if he starts making sexual advances too early before I even know him and what he’s about, eeeeew what a sleaze!
    Don’t you think that cuts both ways. While a lot of men are very happy that you have sex at the drop of a hat, all they think is that you do the same with every man you meet and you have no standards or boundaries and you don’t value yourself very much. Whether you think all men are male sluts or not, remember most of them do have standards, are able to think past their penis and are more interested in women who also have standards, values are aren’t afraid to stick with them.

  22. 22

    How do we get a guy to court and romance us? Do we try to do little romantic things for him and hope he will reciprocate?

  23. 23

    Waiting until you find a guy that actually likes you will keep you celibate for most of your life.  I have been celibate for most of my 20 years over age 18.  It’s just player after liar after loser out there, and they don’t care about us at all.  It’s beyond depressing.  Then you hear about guys who’s wives won’t sleep with them, and it’s because we women are taught that men don’t love the women who give them sex.  Men want the woman who “challenges” them, and that’s what they marry.  I can’t understand how sex supposedly means nothing emotionally to men until after they’re committed/married, and then it suddenly does mean something when it’s being denied.  Then it doesn’t mean anything with the mistress he gets after his wife rejects him once too often.  So which one is it?  Why do men get to change the rules all of the time?

  24. 24

    Love it all these ladies who will just report it back as it is: waiting is no guarantee of anything either!!  You will in fact end up getting burned more readily due to lack of sex (thanks to Anne for pointing out that it’s healthy for us to have sex without the shame and guilt) and creating obstacles to real connection to guys who in all honesty are actually very into us (but our rigidity and agenda turn them off eventually).  I won’t get into a commitment without knowing if the sex is going to be good myself and I’m a woman!
    Take this advice with a grain of salt, ladies.

    1. 24.1

      Of course it’s no guarantee.  He might not be a good match, and either he or you could decide that.  But men have now been conditioned to move on when sex isn’t forthcoming.  It didn’t used to be that way.  That’s what the video is saying: they move on because they can get it “cheaper” elsewhere.  It’s reached the point now that women have trouble being valued and respected unless they devalue themselves.  What a mess!  Instead of focusing on withholding sex as a technique to manipulate men into doing what we want, why not think of it as actually insisting on our true value?  Yes, we’ll lose out on certain men if they don’t think we’re actually that valuable.  (But is it so much of a loss?)
      I hear where some people are coming from b/c I’ve spent years alone and so forth.  But I’d rather be alone than give myself physically to someone who didn’t want to give himself fully to me in return. 
      I’ve been watching some classic movies lately and wow, did they get hitched in a hurry (unless there was some plot twist).  I think they understood better than we do that sex doesn’t have to be so primary, but also that waiting for it for ages wasn’t the best plan.  Desire comes and goes, but once you’re committed to someone you’re free to care about them openly in every way.  The attachment and commitment sets you free to enjoy everything more.
      Hilarious movie recommendation: “I Was a Male War Bride” (streaming on Netflix)

  25. 25

    If you live in NYC, LA and similar cities I don’t see how something like this could work.  Sorry, I’d like to hear a *concrete example* of something like this working out.  I’d like to hear from someone who did this and it “worked”  - the woman “snagged” her “catch”.
    Give me a break.  Unless you are a supermodel or religious fundamentalist, I find that concept a very hard sell. Plus as a woman who likes sex, what the hell am I going to tell this guy if I don’t like the sex?  Erm, thanks for the dates, but no???  Sex is a VERY big deal in any relationship.
    Actually, if I dated a guy who did not want to sleep with me by the third date, I would be horrified.  I’d think he has a 2-inch penis or is asexual. I am not looking for a friend here.

    1. 25.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I have hundreds of concrete examples of women who used the very script I outlined in “Why He Disappeared”. These women establish reasonable healthy boundaries, engage in foreplay and let men know that they don’t have sex outside a committed relationship. The men get to hook up, have fun, feel attractive, and know that their date doesn’t sleep with every guy on the third date just because it feels good. If he likes her, he’ll come back for more hooking up (with a line drawn before intercourse). If that’s too much trouble – if he literally can’t stand one more date without using a condom, he will move onto greener pastures. And my client will be glad she didn’t sleep with a guy who put his own sexual satisfaction above her (very reasonable) boundaries. Her alternative: having sex because she’s a cool chick and then going home to find her date looking up other women online and feeling like crap while she waits for him to maybe text or maybe sleep with her again without commitment, followed by more sleeping with him, potentially getting attached, and keeping her fingers crossed that he may want a relationship. Empowering!

      1. 25.1.1

        Evan, I understand that you have examples of how this philosophy worked. I guess you have enough testimonials to prove this to be true. But I am sure there are hundreds of examples that were equally successful doing the complete opposite of what you advocate. I can certainly think of quite a few ladies that met their husbands using anti-Evan techniques, me included.
        Take some constructive criticism. I don’t think anyone here has a problem with your advice. I think people have a problem in that you act like this is the only way that works. You should give your opinion to your letter writer. But whenever someone gives another viewpoint in comments section, you get sarcastic and snarky. I noticed you did that with many male commentators in prior blogs. Some of them were whiny and deserved it. But now you are doing it to women too. Not cool at all. You are violating your own code of conduct in that opposing viewpoints are met with arrogance instead of keeping it as a healthy debate.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Suzanne, cut down on the exaggeration. There are 1000 blog posts and 55,000 comments. Do you really think I get sarcastic and snarky whenever someone gives another viewpoint? Do you think that I have 55,000 comments saying, “I totally agree!” If that’s what you think, then perhaps you need to go back and read some more. There is tons of dissent on this blog. What I resist are bad arguments based on illogic, straw men, slippery slopes and other logical fallacies. In other words, I have no trouble with dissent; I have great trouble with people who misinterpret or misunderstand something I wrote. That means I must become a clearer writer, so the onus is on me. But simply the fact that your comment saw the light of day, Suzanne (violating my code of conduct which says don’t insult the host) means that evidently I have a greater tolerance for respectful debate than you give me credit for.

      2. 25.1.2

        Evan, oral sex is still sex. It doesn’t matter that you’re not going all the way. And why do you keep saying that a woman needs to rip a guy’s clothes off to “make him feel attractive”? That bothers me because there are plenty of ways to make men feel that you find them attractive without blowing them.

    2. 25.2

      Ms. B, there is a whole compendium of several hundred blow-by-blow posts on the Forum of how I met my husband by sticking to my principles and waiting to have sex until I felt there was emotional commitment on both sides.  I am neither a supermodel or religious freak.  Why don’t you read it before being so judgemental. 

  26. 26

    The statement that was something like women have something of value that men want…isn’t that the problem?  As a society, we have devalued sex?  Making it easy and available and talked about and shown in such minute and graphic detail so as to make it valueless because it’s available everywhere at anytime.  So what’s the pointing — having sex right away or holding off until later?  It doesn’t matter either way.

  27. 27

    I used to do the casual sex thing back in the day (the 70′s). Liberated woman and all. Now a divorced empty nester in my 50′s. Tried the casual sex thing again a few years ago. Hated it. Nowadays I value myself much more highly. I like men, a lot. I’m warm and gracious and welcoming (these are the words I most frequently hear from them). And no matter how much they get my hormones revved up I still don’t have sex with strangers. Seeing as how my hormones have been terrible judges of character :-) It’s not a policy that seems to be winning over the dating masses but I sure as hell feel so much happier with myself, dating, and men! Having this boundary has helped me relax and enjoy myself. Thanks, Evan.

    1. 27.1

      Lynn:  Seeing as how my hormones have been terrible judges of character
      I’m LOL literally.  I can relate. :)

  28. 28

    Yep, men are clearly in the driver’s seat when it comes to commitment, and boy are they ever smug about it.  The video pretty much nailed it, right down to the SMIRK on the cartoon dude’s face, and the SAD expression on the cartoon girl’s face.
    The nookie sampler platter has been going around  3-4 decades now, men have been enjoying the free samples for a long time and have no motivation to step up.  The only thing that REALLY seems to motivate men to marry is when they desire children.  I’m almost 59 now, so that that last piece of my “market value” went down the drain long ago. And now, with the acceptability of single motherhood, men can have children with a “baby mama”  instead of a wife.  They can have the benefits of fatherhood, and often times escape any significant responsibility.  Even if they get sued for child support, if they are low wage earners, it won’t be much, and they still escape the hard day to day work of caring for a child.  For $100 a month, they get to pass on their genes, bang their baby mama for kicks, and be a Disney dad with their offspring, then send them home to  baby mama, and she can come home after work, and help with the home work, feed and bathe the kids, and do ALL of the hands on work by herself.  Such a sweet deal for a man who wants to pass on his genes via a “baby mama”.  Who ever commented that women have to have a set number of dates across the board, communicate it in advance, and apply it consistently to all men is nuts.  Not all men treat me equally.  So if I arbitrarily set date 8 as the magic date, and a man who has been attentive, caring & leading me to a relationship and asks for an exclusive relationship after 6 very long, fun,  and thoughtful  dates, I MUST make him wait 2 more dates in order to be “fair”to the last guy that I had sex with on date 8 ??????   Or if a guy takes me on 8 short dates, communicates very little in between, and doesn’t show a real interest in getting to know me as a person, I am obliged to “sex up” on date 8 ????  (8 dates wouldn’t happen with a guy who treated me like that, but just using that as an example)
    Well, for me, sex was never about a timeline or X number of dates.  It’s about when I feel safe &  secure emotionally.  Now many men SNEER at the idea of meeting OUR emotional needs,  and are just out to have their sexual needs serviced. 
    I am not looking to get married again, although if I met an amazing man who loved me and really WANTED to marry, I wouldn’t deny him that, but really, FAT CHANCE of that happening, since men are no longer motivated to marry.  I was hoping for something long term, comitted and monogomous,  but sexual economics,  seems to have put that out of my reach.   I don’t want to be just another tasty tid-bit going around on the nookie sampler platter.  I don’t want to be a FWB, ONS, booty call, or even a 3 month quality casual relationship.  But if I won’t “sex up” on date 2, plenty of other women will, so really, what is a man’s motivation to get to know me and develop a relationship with me ?
    It’s sad for me to finally realize that love &  romance are nothing more than delusions to dress up the biological necessity of BREEDING.  And it’s never been more than a crude exchange of goods and services in the social market place. 
    In the past, we were railroaded into marriage by social constructs.  Men would do anything for sex, so women with held sex to get the economic benefits of marriage.  Women were forced into the role of being guardians of the nookie, because so few other economic options were available to us. 
    Now that women have economic opportunity, the pill has given us sexual freedom, men don’t have to marry for sex, women don’t have to marry for economic security.  The old construct of marriage really does seem like something akin to the oldest profession.
    Now that men and women are free to marry for true love, guess what ?  Marriage is on decline.  So much for true love !

    1. 28.1

      Like you when watched this video, it made me really depressed — but as someone else indicated — it really was designed to scare women — scare women into not having sex before marriage on the false premise that the reason men are not committing to women and that marriage is declining is because sex is too available.  When I calmed down and started thinking rationally, I started looking for other more scientific sources for why marriage is declining  and here is what I learned.
      1.  Marriage in the US is on the decline — but the decline is largely being driven by lower income, lower educated folks.  Also, religion is a big reason why people feel marry and as the US becomes less religious, then marriage also declines.  However, the reason that marriage is declining among the less educated, lower income is NOT because men won’t commit it is because women don’t see the purpose of marrying men who can’t support them.  Multiple sources suggest that it  is the decline of decent paying  blue collar jobs that is making a whole group of MEN  unmarriagable.  
      2.  While marriage is declining, co-habitation has increased significantly.  I’ve haven’t seen anything to suggest that it completely makes up for the decline in marriage, but it is very high.  The important point is that men are women are still committing to each other — just not legally.  And, as a number of men on this blog have indicated, the prospect of divorce and how it can be financially devastating to a man, may be another reason why some men don’t marry, but still want to be in a loving and committed relationship.
      To be honest, I’m a little disappointed that I let myself even believe for a moment that all men want is sex….that’s just not true.  I’ve seen with my own eyes how men want, no not just want, the need more than sex just as women do.   In a way, this video was quite insulting to men as a group.    When I read men’s online profiles, you can see what many men are craving — and I do think they are being sincere and not just saying anything to get into a woman’s pants.  They do want a friend, a companion, someone who will support and believe in them.  
      In our instant gratification society, finding love is one area where many of us can’t snap our fingers and get it on demand.  It takes time and effort and a bit of heartache and frustration along the way.  So, we are bound to have days where we blame each other for our “failures” — men are dogs who just want sex…women are leeches who just want money.  When the real truth is we are just human beings who need to love and be loved.  
      Finally, despite my issues with the video, Evan’s advice about waiting  to have sex if you are seeking a long term relationship is still right in my mind as well as in the mind of lots of dating experts.   I want to wait to make certain I actually like the man — cause I know when I want to have sex on the first date, it’s all about lust.  
      FYI, lots of men indicate in their profile that they are just looking for something casual and don’t want any kids.

      1. 28.1.1

        Thank you Danaris. I didn’t comment on this at first because I found the video so highly offensive to men and women. And considering the people who produced have a far right-winged “family values” agenda and wish to end birth control, I need to take it with a grain of salt. I am baffled that it was posted frankly. That being said, I don’t think the advice is bad and is good at rooting out men who would sleep with you, enjoy time with you but ultimately don’t want to commit. That being said, one doesn’t need to wait to find commitment. I know I didn’t but my boyfriend made me feel so incredibly safe from day one, I knew it wasn’t a risk. Luckily I was right and luckily he continues to make me feel safer than ANY  men ever has. I think what we always need to remember as women is to look for how a man treats us.

      2. 28.1.2
        Dina Strange

        This video did NOT scare women into not having sex with men. I think a lot of people here (especially women, what a surprise) are so self centered that they are totally missing out on the whole POINT of that video.
        Evan, great video. Thank you even though it’s such a pity to see so many women here misunderstand the point that video made.

        1. Danaris

          Based on your comment, I went back and re-watched the video and upon a second viewing, I can see why you had a different interpretation of the message from the video.    The thing is we all see things through the lens of our life experience and what we take away is shaped by that experience.  One thing that I am challenging myself to do is to really think about why someone could interpret something differently than I do and see if I can learn from what they see.   Thanks for giving me the opportunity to do that.    By watching it again,  I have come away with a slightly different take away.   Oddly enough, however, it still isn’t as simple as wait to have sex until a man is commented to you.  

  29. 29

    I’m not sure why this is even a debate.  Men like sex.  And some men will say/do anything to get sex.  The fact that sex is basically on tap in this day and age should be used to YOUR advantage.  At the end of the day 9 out of 10 times you can weed-out the dbags and players by waiting a bit before having sex.  Doesn’t mean the men who get past that are going to want to marry you.  But if there is a good way to weed those men out I don’t understand why someone looking for a LTR wouldn’t consider it.

    1. 29.1
      Dina Strange

      Great reply!

  30. 30

    SparklingEmerald in #28 I raised three amazing sons. They have all been clear for a long time that they want a wife and kids. Oldest is married with two boys. He’s a wonderful husband and dad. Middle son came close last year but they wisely realized they weren’t ready. Youngest feels he’s still too young in his very early 20′s. We talk pretty openly about their dating lives. They’re not always angels but they usually behave with a fair amount of integrity. And yes, their girlfriends/dates often talk with me too. As does my daughter in law.
    So when you dismiss men as wanting to do nothing more than pass on their genes without responsibility to the baby mama I feel sad. Surely my sons aren’t the only men out there with some integrity. In fact, I’d bet money that there are more of them than not. My wish for you would be to see the good ones!

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