The Single Best Place to Meet Quality Guys
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This morning, I took a peek at the questions coming into my blog. There I found eight questions all saying the same thing:
“Where is the best place to meet a quality, relationship-oriented man? I’m really open to everything you say, Evan, but I never meet any good men!”
I hear ya.
It’s certainly frustrating to want to prioritize your love life, but not have the opportunity to meet any new men on a day-to-day basis.
This lack of opportunity, above all, is the main reason that you’re not in love now.
It’s not because you’re terrible with men.
It’s not because you have nothing to offer.
The reason you’re single is simply that you haven’t met the right guy – and yet you have no idea where he’s coming along.
I’ve only got one word for you, my friend.
Match.com
Before you tune out or run away screaming, hear me out.
Because this isn’t just my opinion. This is fact.
As opinionated as I am, I’m always open to the possibility of being proven wrong.
I hope you are, too.
Did you hear that? That’s the sound of your preconceived notions being shattered.
Because studies show that facts don’t actually matter when you have a deeply held opinion.
That’s right.
If I told you that 2 + 2 = 4, but you believe that 2 + 2 = 5, no amount of evidence can make you change your mind. In fact, any evidence that I provide that contradicts you is only going to make you believe in your original premise more.
Fascinating, isn’t it?
Yes, you’re hardwired to be stubborn and, as such, you can easily fall victim to “the confirmation bias”, which seeks out information which only reaffirms what you already believe (biting my tongue on the obvious Fox News joke…)
So, if you have dated online and discovered the following:
• Men sometimes lie.
• Men often flake out.
• Men are poor at marketing themselves.
• Men are stupid, sexual and visual.
• The wrong men write to you. The right men don’t.
I wouldn’t be able to argue with any of this.
And if you concluded that, because of those observations, you weren’t inclined to try online dating again, you’d have plenty of evidence to support yourself.
But, in writing off online dating you’d be making a massive mistake. Here’s why:
In the past three years, 17% of all married couples met through online dating.
This is more than TWICE the number of couples who met through bars, clubs, and other social events.
Did you hear that?
That’s the sound of your preconceived notions being shattered.
Don’t fight it.
Now, to be fair, 38% of marriages came from work and school. And 27% came through a friend or family member.
So clearly that must mean that those are “better” ways of meeting…
Not so fast.
How many people have a job or go to school? About 100%
How many people have friends and family? About 100%
How many people are paying for online dating sites at a given time? Maybe 5%.
What this illustrates is that, proportionally, 5% of the population (online daters) accounts for 17% of the marriages in the past 3 years.
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47 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating
Zaneeta 1
Does match.com pay to promote them
or do you think it is the best of all of the options. What about the others like Plenty of Fish or e-Harmony?
Evan Marc Katz 2
Match.com definitely does NOT pay me to promote them. It’s just a big brand name placeholder for online dating and I do actually prefer it as a mainstream site. Plenty of Fish is like the flea market – lots more low quality options, people looking for a very important service but unwilling to pay anything for it, but there is enough volume that you could find a diamond in the rough. And eHarmony requires no skill and doesn’t allow much choice – but it has the best compatibility model and the highest price point, so it’s for the most relationship-oriented people, not folks just looking to get laid. The point is that it doesn’t matter which website you’re on – if you’re not meeting enough quality people in real life, dating online is a resource that you MUST utilize.
Bernita 3
I have to agree Online dating gives you more opportunities to meet than you might in your everyday life. I think it’s how it’s presented. Not everyone is going to get tons of emails and go out on a date every night. Some may but that was not my experience.
I followed your program Evan for online dating and your book. I was on match.com for 6 months. I averaged meeting one man a month. I had put myself out there more than ever, meaning contacting the men Online. I found many would not respond or it never got past a first email.
I did meet someone and we dated for about 10 weeks. In the mean time I let my subscription expire to Match. Since that relationship ended I feel a little burnt out and am taking a brake from the whole scene with the intention of jumping back in after the first of the year.
Thanks for all the advice it has given me hope.
Goldie 4
Match is a good place to start, because it is so mainstream, everybody’s on it. But it won’t work for everybody. My 6 months subscription would have expired this coming weekend, except that I have already canceled it. I bought FTOO, filled out the worksheet, had a professional photo taken, did everything by the book. Got a good number of emails, dates etc. Met a few cool people that I still stay in touch with. However in general, for my age group and my location, the site did not work for me. Most people I met were not good matches for me intellectually. They freaked me out because there was nothing to talk about, and I freaked them out because I was foreign. I only met one guy in all my months on Match that I felt I could carry a conversation with, but it didn’t work out very well. I latched on to him because he was the first person with a brain I’d met on Match. Wasn’t sure about dating him, but at least wanted to stay in touch as I didn’t know whether there were any other available smart guys in my area. And he played me in a pretty bad way. The next day after he said to “just be friends”, I opened an account on OK Cupid. I’d actually heard about that site a few weeks before at a (embarrassing fact coming up) Mensa annual gathering. A guy I’d talked to, told me that OKC was known to work better than Match for “people like us”. It worked for me. I got less mail there than I had on Match, but it was 99% quality mail from people I had no problem getting a connection with. I had a great time on the site just chatting and getting to know people, made a ton of good friends, signed up for a book club, learned the proper running technique… and got off the site last week due to having met someone. Not sure how it’ll work out, but I guess I owe Evan a success story
My two problems with Match is, one, for a single parent, it’s too darn expensive. Two, you get so used to getting mail and going out with, well, down-to-earth average guys who aren’t interested in anything other than grilling, watching sports, and mowing the lawn, that a man with just a little above-average intelligence, who’s read a book in the past year, will sweep you off your feet by comparison.
I kid you not, BTW, mowing the lawn was a frequent date-conversation subject on Match.
Anyway if and when I go back online, I’ll probably start with OKC this time. I was on POF last year and cannot recommend it to anyone. I have two good friends that met there, but they’re an exception. I completely agree that online in general is the right way to go. Meetup.com works to an extent, but things can get pretty awkward. I spent many a hiking meetup walking at the front of the group at about 5 miles per hour, trying to get away from a 67 year old who wanted to date.
BTW I don’t recommend the professional photo, at least in my neck of woods it tends to get a weird reaction – people don’t know what to think of it, because no one else has one. One guy called it my “yearbook picture”. Eventually I set my profile photo to something else.
Teresa 5
I saw no difference in quality/quantity between match and pof. Since pof is free I will be sticking with that. Did sign up with OKC don’t really care for it all those tests and the enemy/friend stuff mabye it’s for a younger crowd?
Of course your results may vary based on your age, where you live etc.
I would still prefer to meet someone in IRL of course.
Jules 6
I would second/third the recommendation for OKC. I’ve done Match, POF and OKC. POF is awful… the site is horrible, search functionality is horrible, and the quality of people is far lower than Match or OKC. I’ve met decent people on both Match and OKC, but far prefer the OKC site. It just has a more comfortable, welcoming, “hip” feel, it’s easy to use, NICE photo capabilities. The best part is that you know someone on the other end is getting your emails. Until Match decides to somehow indicate who is a paying member (i.e. can read/respond to email) or at least let you put that as a search criteria, it can be a huge waste of time.
Now that Match owns OKC, I hope they don’t screw it up.
christie 7
I was on both Match and POF. On Match I mostly found players – including a guy who hit me up for $$! I met a couple of local men on Match, they were okay, but no spark there.
On POF, I met several men – one was definitely a not nice guy, a true player, and a couple of others seemed that way as well. But I did meet the man I am still dating, seven months later, and am crazy about. He was about to give up, and then he met me.
Thanks to Evan’s advice, I learned quickly how to get rid of the losers – they are on every site, of course. But I believe there are winners on every site, too, you just have to find them.
Ellen 8
Goldie is right on about everything. Been on them all and much prefer okcupid. Yes, it takes a while to answer 150+ questions but in the end you have some sort of decent compatibility (80%) is superb I think). Rather like eHarmony without the expense or interminable wait times.
The guy I steadily date now that I met there (80% match), well it turns out we are both ENFP (Myers Briggs_ 5% of pop.). How rare is that!
I don’t belong to Mensa but I too have trouble finding guys who are even vaguely intellectuals. I was married to one once, there are some in my family so I miss interacting with like-minded folks. That said, it’s hard! to find an an intellectual with heart (think Clinton or Jimmy Carter). Heart comes first in my book. I request it in a humble way on my profile. I think the way I worded it was “I have 20 yrs. schooling, I am what I am, & it would be nice if the guy could keep up with me culturally.” Not a strict requirement though. What shocks me is the paucity of college-educated guys….
Christina 9
Evan is right- online dating is where it’s at. I met so many guys I never would have come across in real life, even in a small city. I met my fiance on POF, and had fun on OKCupid (until my ex kept coming up as a 95% compatible match, lol).
PoF worked well for me because I apparently have a finely tuned bs-meter. I was also in a happy, confident place where I just didn’t give the time of day to creeps and weirdos and rejection from anyone else was no big deal. With the right attitude and help from someone like Evan, I would think you could do well on just about any of the large sites, paid or free.
MH 10
I’ve met some interesting men through OKCupid. It’s free for a basic account, which suits my budget right now. There are some weirdos on there, but just be careful.
Antonia 11
Evan, I have to disagree on this match.com thing. Match.com is not really a good place to meet a quality single guy who is relationship minded. In last three years I have tried three different dating sites. I have done match.com for a year and have met some fun guys and had some great dates. I am in my early 30s and have met guys in their late 20s to early 40s and they all just seem to want to get laid. They may come off as wanting a relationship, but they are all scarred from an ex wife or ex girlfriend and are afraid of commitment. So I would promote match.com as a place to go for casual dating but I have to disagree that match.com is a place to find high quality single men who are
interested in a relationship. I can say with confidence that match.com is the online equivalent am the bar scene.
On-line dating: good. But match.com: Proceed with Caution.
Mia 12
I met my boy friend on okc.
what is amazing is that I live in Asia and he lives in the US.
after emailing EVERY SINGLE DAY for 3 whole months, he flew all the way over here to meet me in person.
that was 3 months ago.
now, we talk EVERY SINGLE DAY on skype web-cam.
and I will go fly all the way over to see him in the US in December.
(he paid for my flight)
I am in my 40′s and he is in his 50′s.
oh, and he is also of Asian-descent, like me.
so, please don’t give up!
I almost did, but I’m glad I did not.
I have also made many wonderful penpals on okc as well.
but they no longer have the journal function that made it so special.
I would also like to thank Evan for his advice.
my bf passed every single test of Evan’s
I’m so happy.
ashley 13
first , I just found this blog , LOVE it ! EMK , you are awesome!
going back to the post …I always met my boyfriends through other friends, in college, parties. I recently moved to a new state for my grad school, and thought the quickest way to meet new people is online, and oh boy ! Ive been on match.com for few weeks now , and it’s been crazy!!!Im sure most ladies would agree with me that it’s so overwhelming to answer to all the emails, but I actually met couple of very very nice men which I’m dating now and speaking of the quality, I’m not actively seeking a long term relationship now but if I was, few of these men would definitely be on top of my list ! I would say 90-95% are not my type, but the 5-10% that are , they are one the most eligible bachelors that Ive ever seen! my conclusion is that online dating is the best way to meet new people; satisfies both quality and quantity standards !
my honest answer 14
They are some really interesting statistics! I am finding an increasing number of friends and acquantainces meeting long-term partners online. I had never thought of the sucess rate compared to meeting someone at the office, but you’re right – if so many marriages are coming from so few people being online, these sites are very effective.
Gem 15
Met my guy on Plenty of Fish. I agree with Evan that compared to other sites, you may have a tougher time wading through those waters to find a quality catch of the day, but they are swimming in there.
Goldie 16
@ Christina #9, LOL @ your ex story – I had to hide the guy on OKC that had dumped me on Match, because he kept coming up every day on my sidebar as my 90% match, 86% friend, and 4% enemy, go figure. As a friend of mine said, high compatibility as is a requirement, but not a guarantee, of you clicking with the other person. It’s good to know that you feel the same on a number of issues, but as our two examples show, you can still disagree on other things not covered by the questions.
sharon 17
It’s just so easy to get burned out. I’ve been trying to date more relationship oriented men. After two dates if I can’t bring myself to give em a peck on the lips I try to break contact. But damn if these guys don’t keep calling for months. I hate dumping people and honestly it just seems ridiculous that I have to explain to someone I’ve met twice why I don’t want to see them again. Maybe I should make a form letter.
Soul Sister 18
Just wanted to say, if you have the right attitude on-line dating is the way to go. But you need to be very secure in yourself and ready to deal with a lot of rejection and lots of weirdos. And if you are a very nice person, it is kind of hard when the guy likes you and you don’t like him…but we are all adults, right?
My first time on match.com I had not been dating much and it was just too much, too overwhelming. I was not doing a very good job of screening, I was too nice to everyone, and the number of emails was just crazy. A year later, after a goofy relationship with a college boyfriend and just some casual dating, I decided to try match again. This time I did lie about my age (I had just turned 50 so I went with 49, ha ha!). I screened better and if I was not interested in someone I just didn’t respond. I went on 3-4 dates a week…I was on a mission! I met lots of decent men, this time around not one real jerk!
Then a guy contacted me who looked like a total player from his pictures. But I didn’t want to judge a book by it’s cover so agreed to meet him for happy hour. We had a very fun time but I still didn’t trust him. He was persistent though, so I invited him to coffee at my house…to help me move some big boxes!! Darn if he didn’t show up! I was still not sure, but went on date #3 because I read EMK’s blog and I knew to give the guy a good chance. On our third date, lighting struck for both of us! We have been dating for 3 months and we are exclusive. There is huge potential for an LTR with him.
I am 50, he is 52, and we just believed it could happen. People who are negative about their bad experiences with on-line dating (and we all have them) just bring that negativity to the next meeting. Be confident, be positive, and hope for the best. Since my match boyfriend, two of my girlfriends signed up and are seriously dating great potentials. On-line dating can rock if you want it to….just saying!
Soul Sister 19
Goldie #4 – just a friendly comment…I consider myself a pretty smart person too (not genius smart but I qualify for mensa too) and not once in all my on-line dating did I meet someone I would not consider my intellectual equal. Some are obviously smarter than others, but I was way more concerned about who is a good person, fun, attractive, than what his IQ might be. I am not sure where you are setting your bar, but if you really are only looking for super smart men, maybe where the rest of the normal population hangs out (bars, on-line) isn’t a good option for you? Not one single guy I have ever met anywhere has talked about mowing his lawn. Now his Harley…that might be a different story, ha ha. But even the mid life crisis doctors are buying Harleys these days.
Possibly consider that you are using a man’s intellectual level as a deal breaker sort of like some women are using a man’s yearly income as a filter and they may be missing some really great options because of it. I care much less if the guy can dazzle me with his brilliance than if he can dazzle me with his passion, kindness, and positive energy. Good moves in the bedroom are way more important than math ability too…..:-)
still looking 20
Soul Sister — How can you tell by looking at pictures if a guy is a player? I hear women toss the term around all the time and a good percentage of women say “no players” on their profiles. What is the definition of a player? To me it is a guy who is on a mission for sex and he manipulates women to have sex with them. In my mind, a pickup artist is a player, a serial dater is just a guy who hasn’t found love yet. Thoughts???
AQ 21
Agreed. There is no better way and it is work.
BK 22
I’m going to have to disagree with Match.com being a good way to meet people. I signed up for a 3 month subscription a few months ago and only had 3 guys iniate contact with me. Of those 3 none of them resulted in an actual date, and I responded to everyone who contacted me. Aren’t women supposed to have more responses then they know what to do with? I had friends review my profile text and photos, so I don’t think it had anything to do with my profile. I’ve also been told by both male and female friends that I’m very pretty, so I don’t think it’s the way I look. I’m 5’7, weigh 135, and had full length photos up where you could tell my body type. I had I sent out about 3-4 e-mails a day during my subscription to guys I might be interested in got no response to the contacts I iniated. I live in a major city, so maybe there’s just too many options and guys get lost in the kid in the candy store mentality? Maybe the people I contacted weren’t actual paying members, so they couldn’t respond? I’m not opposed to on-line dating as a medium, but I found this particular site to be a big waste of time, money and energy. Anyone else have similar experiences, or advice on how I could improve my experience?
ashley 23
#22 BK,
I had an apposite experience on match ,,, but I guess if you are an attractive women with good quality pictures, maybe it’s what you’ve written in your profile. Honestly, mine doesnt have much information ; I was lazy to answer all the questions , wanted to go back and complete it but got enough emails from men so that ” dull ” profile of mine worked pretty well. maybe you should’nt reveal too much information in your profile, also have no preference for anything; height, income, religion. where I live now, most men are ultra religious conservative. Im a liberal spiritual person , but left the option open and met lots of nice men. other than that , it’s just their loss !
Lipstick and Playdates 24
Marc, I read your blog religiously and often think you’re advice is often right on. You have amazing insights on men and women. However, in regards to your last post I have to say: is this REALLY your best advice? I would hope someone on your level could offer suggestions of actual places outside the online arena women could meet men. Surely you must know a few. Reading this post, one has to wonder how much Match paid you for that nice little plug.
Goldie 25
@ Soul Sister – I tried going out with average guys… it’s not working. It’s not as much the IQ in itself as the man’s intellectual curiosity, open mind, being able and willing to learn new things etc. (I’ve met people who had all those things and didn’t even have a college degree.) By trial and error, I found out that I can compromise on just about everything except that. (and obvious things like integrity, nice personality, not being a serial killer etc) I’ve dated men who said, on a date or in their profile, things like “I ain’t much of a reader”… and the date always turned out being a snoozefest. I just feel that I’m better off alone than with someone boring. Some of these men are actually very smart and have good careers. They’re just not intellectuals. They have no problem leaving their brain behind when they walk out of the office at the end of the day.
For a lot of men and women, it is not a priority. Tons of people want a relationship where they can just come home to each other, have dinner together, watch some reruns on TV, not talk much because they’re unwinding from work, go to bed, maybe have some sex, rinse, repeat… There’s nothing wrong with that. It just won’t work for me.
It probably depends on location. I’m in the Midwest. Lawns are a big part of our lives, LOL
Another thing I noticed is that, a man who’s not interested in growing intellectually, is also not interested in dating an immigrant such as myself. I scare an average Joe half to death with my accent and the fact that I didn’t grow up in the area. I’m like a different species to him. He’s, of course, curious, but at the end of the day, he wants to date me like he would want to date a dog. So, works both ways… I’m not interested in him, he’s not interested in me. win-win
Teresa 26
BK
I had a similar experience on match, If you are a women over 50 you just not going to get much action. Unless you like em a lot younger or a lot older. Men in their 50 generally don’t date women in their 50′s they usually wnat em 10-12 years younger. Save your money and use the free sites like plentyoffish and Ok Cupid if you don’t get any messages at least it doesn’t cost you anything.
BK 27
Teresa, I’m 28 so I don’t think age was the issue. The only thing I can think of is that for men in their mid 20′s and early 30′s there were too many options on that site and they only replied to their top picks, or very few of them were actual paying members so they couldn’t reply. I am going to try the free sites though, so at least if I don’t get a response there, it would be less frustrating.
Evan Marc Katz 28
@Lipstick:
1. My name is Evan, not Marc. Seriously, just read the header.
2. This is really my best advice. I think it would be foolish to keep better advice to myself and not share it with my loyal readers.
3. Someone on my level has the responsibility to tell you that the right answer to “where are the places to meet quality men” doesn’t involve me researching every bar, club, salsa class, and Meetup in America. If YOU think that you’ve got a better answer to where to meet men, then, by all means, let me and all our other readers know. Chuckles in Cincinnati? The Royalton in New York? Mr. Chalmers Spanish class for the over 50 set in Boca? Do you see how ridiculous this question is? And you know where all the people who go to Chuckles, the Royalton and Mr. Chalmers class are ALSO hanging out? Match.com
4. Yeah, I’m on the take from Match.com. Be sure and let Match.com know because my checks haven’t been arriving.
Teresa 29
Sorry BK meant to reply to someone else posted on the wrong thread.
Goldie 30
@ Soul Sister #19, wanted to add in response to this:
Possibly consider that you are using a man’s intellectual level as a deal breaker sort of like some women are using a man’s yearly income as a filter and they may be missing some really great options because of it.
I agree with you that, if I were experiencing a shortage of options, I’d think about what I can change in the way I do things. Which was one of the reasons why I started asking around for advice when things weren’t working well for me on Match, and was advised to switch sites. From there on out, it was like being back in college (in a good way, lol) My last month on OKC, I spent fretting and losing my sleep because I was seeing two people that were both very interested in me, and were both such awesome matches for me that I didn’t know which one to choose! I know, it’s an awful problem to have! LOL Apparently, guys are more intelligent than what we give them credit for
Ronnie Ann Ryan - The Dating Coach for Women Over 40 31
Evan – I want to commend you for this post! Shaking women up is exactly what is needed! So many have tried unsuccessfully, so they think the web stinks. But did they have your advice or mine on how to do this well? No. They rely only on themselves and think their bad experiences prove this won’t work.
When I was single I was the same way. But at 40 I was still single and had to get serious. I decided to look at myself to see how I might be contributing to my singleness. and that is where the answers were. I started working on myself and getting out to meet men in all the old ways I had tried before and hated.
But, I did attended these events with a completely new attitude! I was friendly. I went alone to meet and mingle. I talked to all kinds of men, not just my type. I dated 30 men in 15 months to meet the man who is now my husband of 11 years.
Hurray for this post Evan about online dating and shaking up preconceived notions. That is the fundamental key to finding the love women want. I sure hope you impacted a few to rethink how they are going about their search.
Chris 32
Have to agree with most folks here. I’ve been on both POF and Match.com. No matter how many times I stress in my match profile the age group and location that I’m looking for, I inadvertently get the older gentlemen who are so totally not my type, or live 2-3 STATES away expressing interest. At least on that site, they have the “Thanks but no thanks” email pre-written for you to send.
On POF in the beginning, I too, met quite a few players or men only interested in FWB. At the initial stage of my going there, that’s all I was looking for, or thought I was.
I then met the guy I’ve been seeing for a few months and am extremely happy. He, too, was about to give up on dating, having met 5 women before me too neurotic to deal with. Although we don’t get to see each other all of the time, we still text/talk on an almost daily basis.
I think it just really comes down to your own personal choice, and how you present yourself. I still think there is someone for everybody out there, but as Evan has quoted, you have to kiss a lot of princes before you find your frog! Good luck everyone!
Soul Sister 33
Still Looking # 20 – the guy’s pictures looked like a player because in almost every picture he had his shirt off (turns out he is just a beach nut and most pics were from the beach), he wears a large cross (Latino guy, but his cross is for real, he says grace before every meal!), and a few pictures had several girls in them….so I was judging the book by the cover, and he is the exact opposite of a player, although he is very masculine, which I like. He had no idea his pictures were sending off a “player” vibe….he was trying to project “fun”.
Goldie #25 – everyone has their tastes in the opposite sex, but again, I am an intellectual, a business woman, and very successful…I still do not believe I was meeting a bunch of dullards on match. Actually, a few super smart men ended up being the most boring dates of all. It is not my intent to challenge you so I hope you take this feedback positively, but your posts are coming off a bit judgemental and snobbish in the brain department, which can be self limiting. I wouldn’t date a guy who says he “ain’t much of a reader”, those are the ones you just pass on. If you check for spelling, content, and thoughtfulness, and look at his profession, chances are you are going to have a date with someone who is at least average, most likely above. This is like saying you only date men with blonde hair and blue eyes….yes, you can find them, but your pool just got much smaller. BTW, my beach loving Latino has a Masters from an Ivy League university and I never would have learned that if I didn’t go out with him several times. And by then I didn’t care, because we are way too busy having fun (and some very stimulating intellectual discussion thrown in there for good measure).
Once I threw out my checklist of must haves, I got exactly what I didn’t know I even wanted…yay for me
Goldie 34
@ Soul Sister – it depends a lot on the location. I remember from your old posts that you’re in the Southwest? (Phoenix? SoCal?) Well, I’m not. It is a huge huge difference. I cannot relocate at this point, because I have one kid in a good school system (been in same district since kindergarten, only 2.5 years to go) and another in college on in-state tuition. With the one in college, one of the merit scholarships he receives, is targeted specifically at state residents. So, at least for a few years, I’ve got to stay put.
“I wouldn’t date a guy who says he “ain’t much of a reader”, those are the ones you just pass on.”
Well this was pretty much everyone I found on Match… in my area. I have no doubt that the selection will be different in large metro areas on either coast.
At some point I seriously wanted to make a list of all answers I’ve seen on Match under “last thing you’ve read”. It was a wide range of responses, from “um I’m not into that stuff lol” to “local paper”. Would’ve been a funny read, too bad I never got around to compiling it! BTW the guy I finally fell for on Match, said “a Stephen King book” and that just blew me off my feet, because, compared to others I’d seen on there, the man was so.well.read. LOL
“your posts are coming off a bit judgemental and snobbish in the brain department”
Yes, this is my limitation and I know it. I make up for it by compromising a great deal on looks, income, family situation, distance, personality type etc etc. and on education too, actually. I’ve dated highly intelligent men with no or incomplete college education. Like you, right now I’m exclusive with a guy that, at first, I didn’t even fathom going out with, because a lot of the external things didn’t match. But… he is incredibly smart, funny, and positive. Turns out, that’s all I need.
Apologize if I came off as offensive. This is the one area where I cannot back down. I know because I’ve tried. Pretty sure everyone has their own area like that.
I’ve read on here that up to three must haves is fine
“yes, you can find them, but your pool just got much smaller.”
But what do I care if it’s still a good sized pool? Do I really need to go on dates with seven different men a week?
Nicole 35
@Soul Sister, if you’ve read Goldie’s other posts, I would hardly call her snobbish, and even in this thread, she just says that intellect is a must have for her, but she’s hardly alone in having one powerful dealbreaker while compromising in other areas.
It is just interesting to me how quick we are to tell other people that their standards are wrong while maintaining that our own ways of discriminating against people are just fine. Everyone seems to do this and always has an explanation of why they can do it but you cannot.
You are kind of comparing apples and oranges, b/c you saw a guy who looked like a “player” but still sounds like an educated professional. But he wasn’t a player. You aren’t dating against type when the assumptions you made about this man based on PICTURES ONLY were wrong. What exactly does this guy lack that was on your list? It sounds like you just ASSUMED that he lacked what you wanted. Goldie is talking about men that she meets who are still lacking in real life.
If Goldie gets emails from people who cannot spell and have bad grammar in addition to having pictures that indicate that all of their hobbies involve jet skis, beer, and monster trucks, it is not a stretch for her to assume that they lack her one must have, intellect. She’s not likely to find a Ivy educated man who cannot spell or write properly.
I think that what doesn’t work is for people to have a list of 100 things that are less important and more rare (he must be tall, he must be rich, he must have a 150 I.Q.)etc) than having a good character. There is a HUGE gap between someone who could qualify for Mensa and what it sounds like she is describing, and I’d guess that she could split the difference for someone who is somewhat intellectual and well-read. But a “Broseph” is not going to cut it…I don’t know where she lives but she sounds like she’s describing the older version of what I call “fratty boys.”
But even in the advice to “compromise” that doesn’t mean throwing out your playbook, just softening your rules and yes, dumping that ones that make no sense at all. So I think that I’ve read that Goldie is a tall lady, and she for example happily dates men who are shorter, and she sounds like she HAS in fact tried dating down the intellectual “ladder” to no avail. How is she stuck-up?
Sorry for trying to speak for you Goldie but I didn’t think the assessment of you was fair, plus as I said, I hate how people condemn other people’s must haves when they unapologetically have their own.
Soul Sister 36
@ Nicole, I am not comparing apples to oranges, I mentioned why I thought the guy was a player and it turned out he wasn’t in response to Still Looking, #20 because she asked why I thought that. The comments about the current bf from match had nothing to do with my comments to Goldie. I only mentioned him at the end of my comment to her because from his profile you would not have gotten “super smart, Ivy League educated”. His profile did not indicate it either way. I just took a chance, like I have dozens of other times with match, and this one worked out well for me.
I am not judging or condeming Goldie, she can like what she likes. I was more defending match as an option to find men. If I said I am so good looking, and all the men on match just aren’t good looking enough, that would be as black and white as saying I am so intelligent and all the men on match aren’t intelligent enough for me. And unless Goldie lives in the mountains somewhere in a tiny little town, I just cannot believe that all the men she is meeting on match are dumb. If ALL she is getting is emails from people who can’t spell, then that is an exception to most people’s experiences.
Goldie, you aren’t the least bit offensive to me. I am not telling you to lower your standards on anything. But a woman who says I am a 10 in ”X” and therefore only another 10 is good enough for me will be hurting only one person…herself.
For a lot of men and women, it is not a priority. Tons of people want a relationship where they can just come home to each other, have dinner together, watch some reruns on TV, not talk much because they’re unwinding from work, go to bed, maybe have some sex, rinse, repeat… There’s nothing wrong with that. It just won’t work for me
The super intelligent do not have the corner on having great, exciting, productive, worthwhile lives and everyone else is just merely passing time and dulling their brains. I am just challenging Goldie that to think you are smarter than everyone else is no different than thinking you are better looking than everyone else. Again, I am not saying to go out with dummies, but rather to consider what EMK calls the 7 vs. the 10. And if someone comes across as thinking they are better looking or smarter or have a better body than everyone else, it could be very self limiting (and others do pick up on it).
Finally Nicole, I was not condeming Goldie about anything. I was challenging her beliefs. That should be a good thing. Your post kind of inferred a lot from what I was trying to say that just wasn’t true. Personally I think it kind of sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder to get that defensive.
EMK, match CAN be a great place to meet people, it all depends on how you want to use the venue to your advantage. And it is a hell of a lot better than sitting at home complaining about how there are no good guys left in the world.
Trouble 37
Met my fiance on match.com, so I can only say it worked well for me. Interestingly enough, in my office alone, I know 8 people who met their significant others online and married them. Especially in my southern town, there is typically a more educated class of people online than what you’re going to meet in the bar scene.
Heather 38
I agree about the comments about Match having a lot of “players.” I cancelled my subscription after dating a number of men who seemed to consider playing mind games with women, their favorite pastime, and having a situation where I was almost assaulted because I would not “put out” on the first date. I figure I don’t need to pay that much money, to have my head messed with, thank you.
I do POF, and mostly I have met some nice guys. Had nice dates, even met one guy who was UP FRONT about not wanting a serious relationship. WOW!!! I was very impressed by his honesty, because I saw no honesty or honor on Match.com.
Goldie 39
@ Nicole, thank you for your comment, I was touched
@ Soul Sister,
“…I am just challenging Goldie that to think you are smarter than everyone else…”
Where do you read this stuff? I didn’t post it. Where are you getting this from?
“But a woman who says I am a 10 in ”X” and therefore only another 10 is good enough for me will be hurting only one person…herself. “
Again, where did I say I’m a 10 in “X”? Give me a comment number and a quote. But more importantly, how exactly am I hurting myself? Right now I’m seeing a great guy and there are a few more, who are good friends, ready and willing to take his place if need be. What do you want me to do? Dump the man I’m seeing and go back on match to see if I can find someone like him? What for? What, does he not count because he didn’t come from the right site? Is it like buying a dog, when you must only get your puppy from a reputable breeder? I don’t get it.
Only reason why I posted that comment is, I’ve talked to several more people (men and women) who also had problems on Match, and they think that, because it is such a large mainstream site, that the problem is with them, and give up on online dating altogether. I was just trying to be helpful! I was not asking for help at this time – I don’t need any, right now. When I do, I’ll say so.
You also appear to be confusing the “super intelligent” with the, for lack of a better word, intellectually alive. These are not the same thing. Some of the most interesting people I’ve ever met are not in the top 2% of the population, and the opposite is also true, some of the most boring people I’ve met are highly intelligent, with good education and good careers. Sorry to repeat myself, but you didn’t seem to notice this when I wrote it in my several previous comments.
” I was challenging her beliefs. “
I’m confused. If I tried something several times, and it repeatedly did not work, how is that a belief when I conclude that it does not work for me? Why would I keep trying? Isn’t that the famous definition of insanity, doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results?
“And it is a hell of a lot better than sitting at home complaining about how there are no good guys left in the world. “
What, did I post that one too? For crying out loud. Ever since I started dating, my teenage kids have been telling me that they hardly see me anymore (which I’ve been feeling pretty bad about), and now all of a sudden I’m sitting at home complaining? You know, I really liked your posts on the other thread about sex and dating, but this is all strawman stuff. I never said any of these things that you keep telling me I did. So I cannot really waste any of my time arguing about them. Sorry.
Lysa 40
I’m in complete agreement with Goldie and Nicole.
Soul Sister appears to be one of those people who blindly tell women to lower their standards, even when those standards are perfectly reasonable.
If Goldie wants someone she can engage with intellectually, who are we to tell her she’s stuck-up? Especially when she has already tried dating men with low intellect in the past?
I constantly face criticism when I say that I am looking for a man who is honest, respectful, hardworking and with family values. People tell me I’m stuck up, demanding and will be single all my life because I’m looking for the perfect man!
On the other hand, school friends who have been impregnated by deadbeats who skip out of them are labelled irresponsible, and slutty.
One guy I went on a first date with admitted that he had lied on his profile about having a job, was just about to be kicked out of the apartment he shared with six other people, and was looking for a woman to support his professional studies. In exchange, he would help her with her dream to have children!
We went to Starbucks but he didn’t offer me a drink, but instead drank from a bottle he kept in his gym bag. He also told me he was also seeing a business woman with an expense account, who paid for everything. I just nodded politely and tried to make a graceful exit.
When he called a few days later for a second date, and I turned him down, he also called me stuck up, and said I was searching for the perfect man.
I’m beginning to find it abusive when women are being criticised for having reasonable standards. Is this the new face of misogyny?
Goldie 41
Wanted to add, it’s not even a matter of low or high intellect (though there’s probably a cutoff level somewhere). It’s more of a matter of not being interested in anything. I’ve seen the most intelligent men fall into that trap. Somewhere down the road they get this idea that mature people should just relax and take it easy, and that all this reading, trying new things etc. is for college kids. As one guy put it in an email to me, “that’s all date stuff”. There’s nothing wrong with it whatsoever, my ex for example loves this kind of life, and he is by all means highly intelligent – we met in college… one of the top schools in our home country… and he was getting excellent grades without even trying. It’s just that, for me, this lifestyle bores me to death.
Where I live (Midwest), on dating sites, tons of people list grilling and watching sports as their only interests. And I don’t mean some fringey morons who can’t spell, I mean white-collar professionals, executive types. I get it that they want to come home from work, turn their brain off and take it easy. It’s just not the kind of life I’m looking for.
I brought up OKC because there, at least, people expect you to answer about a hundred questions and fill out a good-sized profile that is a more or less interesting read. A guy that’s looking for a woman to grill and watch sports with, isn’t going to put in that kind of effort. He’ll go on Match where he doesn’t have to do all that work. Again, nothing wrong with him. Heck, he is the normal one. I am the weird one. I’m looking for weird people like myself. Normal people aren’t going to have a good time with me anyway.
Only reason why I mentioned Mensa in my earliest comment here, (probably shouldn’t have) is to point out that OKC comes highly recommended by a reputable source. On second thought, I probably should’ve piled it on higher and added that the friend who recommended it to me, is also a college professor… true story. I admit I typed that comment in a hurry, as I had to leave home ASAP, to meet up with the guy I’m seeing. I’ll pay more attention to how I word my comments next time, so they cannot be misread. Once again, no I do not have a minimal IQ requirement for guys, that would be ridiculous. I do expect them to have a mindset similar to mine, but doesn’t everybody?
Ruby 42
Yes, I agree with Goldie, Nicole, and Lysa. Goldie’s involved with someone, she’s not sitting around bemoaning her fate. When it comes to dating an intelligent, intellectually curious partner, that’s one of my must-haves, too. I’ve tried the other way, and it hasn’t worked for me, either. It would be much easier for me to date someone very intelligent, but with average looks, than the other way around, and I make no apologies for that.
I live in a large midwestern city, and I have met intelligent men in my area – or in other neighboring large cities – on Match, but it often seems that if I venture out into more remote places, the dating pool, for what I’m looking for, is not compatible. Why try to force something that isn’t right?
For me, probably the worst dating site I tried was eharmony, and for exactly the reasons Goldie mentioned. The quiz they are so famous for seemed useless. I met only one person in 3 months. I will say that when people are trying to date seriously, they are actually pickier, and perhaps that was the case with eharmony. For me, though, the pickings were slim. I also had a lot of fun on OKCupid, but didn’t find many who were serious about a relationship there.
I think the quality of all the sites is cyclical. Sometimes a lot of people seem to gravitate towards one site, and then another ones becomes more popular. So it’s worth giving everything a try, because it’s really all just a crapshoot anyway. You never know who’s going to be on any given site at any time.
MilkyMae 43
I saw an advertisement for match.com that claimed match produces 2 million dates a year. It sounds good(if its true) but there are 20+ million unique visits to the website every month. I think these numbers point out one of the drawbacks of online dating and that it is magnet for passive people. Passive adults are not great prospects for those seeking a relationship. IMO, if you want to have success online you need to force yourself into the subset of people who are online for a purpose and who can handle online dating.
Nicole 44
@Soul Sister…I’m not sure how defending Goldie against your characterization of her means that I have a chip on my shoulder.
Unless the chip to which you refer is that I too list intellect, and actually I’d point to Goldie’s example of being interested and passionate about something to be a better description of what I prefer as well.
There are people who aren’t necessarily interested in the same things as me, but I’ve found that I enjoy interacting with men who have some kind of passion that they like the share and educate me about. It’s actually a plus if it’s something that I don’t know about, and I’ve learned to do things that I couldn’t do before b/c of those interactions.
I also would guess that Goldie finds, as have I, that those people are better understand/appreciate why you are passionate about certain things, and will accompany you on those activities.
People who aren’t interested in things for themselves probably can’t enjoy partaking in your hobbies either.
Also, infer means to reach a conclusion based on what isn’t actually there (as in ASSUME). I used specific examples from your comment in my response, so I didn’t INFER anything.
PGL 45
I am following all of Evan’s advice. I have read WHD & FTOO. I used his online profile service and I’m on Match for 6 mos. So far this first month has been a trickle. Mostly from men not in my criteria which is mostly age based. (I will never be attracted to much older men.) The only responses I have gotten from the dozens of emails I have sent out included a guy telling me he was quitting Match because he was not ready to date in LA and the other never wrote back after the 1st email.
So after reading all the positive comments here, I signed up for OkCupid. And it’s been an experience very different from what everyone else has said. The first email was from a guy 10 years younger who wanted a friends with benefits. One guy told me he wanted to pull my hair. And tonight I got one from a married guy looking to have an affair. Wow…I have never received messages like this from any of my previous times on Match. It has been entertaining.
And no has responded to any of my emails there either. I might not be doing Evan’s email advice correctly. Guess it’s time to review everything again.
Ladybug 46
Thank God I’m a country girl!
I won’t run out of places to meet men and I don’t have to go to bars! The hay barns, sale barns, at the best fishing holes, the gun shop, sporting goods, lumber yard, feed store, Coast Guard station, marina, or I can build a huge fire on the beach for the surfers or join others at their fires. I joined the fire department, I do volunteer work with the veterans organizations, I talk to total strangers wherever I go.
I was talked into joining online dating sites, I have an awesome profile.
ICK!
I’m sticking to the nice men I meet in person. They respect my rules. We’re all old fashioned and we move slowly. Since we’re a small isolated community, friendships matter, integrity matters, reputations matter.
Dawn 47
I’m a mature woman, and I’ve been on Match for a few months, and had just let my subscription lapse when I literally stumbled across this article. So to your credit, Evan, you have me thinking about giving it another try.
On the other hand, you asked how many people have a job or are going to school, and put it at 100%. I think you might be amazed at the number of older gentlemen on these sites who are a) looking for women 10-20 years younger than they are (and that seems also to be the experience of several other ladies who have commented here), and/or b) looking for women to fund their “retirement”/
unemployment.
Very discouraging to be a career woman with a couple of grown children and her own assets, and trying just to find someone with whom to share time!