Dec10

My Boyfriend Is Staring At and Flirting With Other Women!

08:00 am on Dec 10th 2007 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

88 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice

88 Responses to “My Boyfriend Is Staring At and Flirting With Other Women!”

1. christine Dec 10th 2007 at 08:17 am 1

   i dated a guy that flirted with waitresses and we got better service. i liked the attention we got. i liked that other women wanted him but he wanted to marry me.

2. Damie Dec 10th 2007 at 10:45 am 2

   You could do the same back and have him see from personal experience what it feels like. My boyfriend makes comments on occasion about actresses or people on TV, but as soon as I do the same back about some hot guy he change his tune completely, and all of a sudden it’s all about us again, like it should be. Maybe I’m naive but I believe you should be the most important most beautiful person to him, and you should feel the same way back. If not, something’s not quite right.

3. Bev Dec 10th 2007 at 11:49 am 3

   I’ll tell ya what you do!! You dump him yesterday!! He’s a womanizer and with that goes alot of other stuff you would find out toooo late. Please don’t do this to yourself.

4. Marc Dec 10th 2007 at 11:53 am 4

   The occasional glance, or harmless flirtation with a waitress to get better service is nothing to worry about, but if he’s following women into stores, it may be time to trade up.

5. Kat Wilder Dec 10th 2007 at 04:34 pm 5

   There’s a huge difference between looking and appreciating another’s beauty, and staring in a lecherous way. Many times, women confuse what’s innocent looking and what’s not, and that speaks to an insecurity.

   The big test for me is — how he reacts when you say something about it. If you can say to him, “She’s got a nice outfit on” or “She has a nice smile,” etc. and then you can talk about the object of his visual affection, then that opens up a doorway to communicate (including, “I sometimes feel uncomfortable when you look at other women…”)

   But if he gets on the defensive (and you’ve mentioned it to him in a nonjudgmental or passive-aggressive way), then that’s a sign that something is amiss, not only with his looking but probably something much bigger. I’d really want to check into that before I got much further into the relationship.

6. Selena Dec 10th 2007 at 05:07 pm 6

   He’s walking with his girlfriend and walks into stores where he spots an attractive woman through the window? I find that very weird, kinda creepy even. Add to that, the one time his gf jokingly points out his gazing–he gets defensive and won’t say anything? I’ll bet his behavior has been pointed out to him before by previous girls he has dated.

   I think Evan’s advice is good, but I’d still be very leery of a guy who leers as much as this one. Something about it just seems off.

7. downtowngal Dec 10th 2007 at 05:10 pm 7

   Evan you’re totally off the mark – this guy’s being disrespectful and rude. And you shouldn’t compare your own experiences to your readers; this woman doesn’t sound as if she’s being overly paranoid or has jealously issues. If anything she’s been grappling with it for some time.

   There’s a difference between the occasional check-out and going out of your way to stare at other women while you’re with your girlfriend. She even brough it up to him in a nice way and he got defensive. This also doesn’t sound like the night you’re staying in watching movies and telling each other which movie star you think is hot. And he’s not being nice/flirty with other woman – he’s going out of his way to check them out.

   In my experience when a guy is interested he wouldn’t do this unless he’s immature or has intimacy issues. I’ve faced this issue before and lots of guys have told me that – esp once you get passed a certain age – they know that ogling other woman is a big no-no if you respect the woman you’re with.

   What he’s doing is unacceptable if it makes you feel badly. Try bringing it up again – if he loves you he’l listen. If not that’s a bigger red flag than the ogling.

8. mrs. vee Dec 10th 2007 at 07:29 pm 8

   Aww, Evan, you poor baby… having to deal with someone else’s distorted version of the truth! It sounds to me like you’re still really pissed off about that horrible ex of yours. She must have been a humorless, unlovable birdbrain who’s wallowing in a pile of lonely misery right about now.

   Karen, this is a slippery, slippery slope you’re on here. To have a man tell you he loves and wants to marry you is a seductive experience. But then to have him turn around and so openly forget himself and your feelings and, seemingly, set aside his regard for you must hurt you deeply.

   When you’re the girl who objects to her mates’ “interest” in other ladies, it’s very easy for the guy to put it on you and call you paranoid.

   In these situations, you can drive yourself crazy looking for “proof” that something is wrong. That’s no fun when you’re supposed to be in love and enjoying each other.

   So before you go down that road, ask yourself a couple key questions that help take the guesswork out of the whole issue:

   First, are you generally a jealous person? i.e. do you often find yourself in relationships with men who bring this reaction out of you? If not, then it most likely IS him and not just in your head.

   Even more important than my first question, if he weren’t so into you, would you be so into him? In other words, do you really want to struggle to make it work because you respect and admire this man who gets pulled by an invisible tractor beam towards other women? Can you love a guy who is so motivated to feel attractive to females that he apparently loses self-control?

   If you don’t really care that strongly for him, or, rather, if the strongest feeling you have for him is only indignation, then he’s not worth the hassle. Believe me, it will be a tremendous pain in the ass to try to train that reflex out of him. And I doubt it’ll work, like Evan says.

   Chances are, he probably never will give you the satisfaction of recognizing his inappropriateness anyway and simply remember you as jealous and paranoid.

9. Evan Marc Katz Dec 10th 2007 at 07:41 pm 9

   As always, I would encourage my favorite readers/posters to consider the totality of the post.

   I did NOT give this guy a free pass. I said that his behavior was highly inappropriate. Where my female readers and I part ways is that I actually think that the guy has no idea how he’s coming across.

   And that instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater and dumping him, she should try to notify him that he’s unintentionally hurting her.

   A starry-eyed gazer isn’t necessarily a lech and a lech isn’t necessarily a womanizer. Although there is definitely a correlation and a slippery slope from lustful looks to infidelity.

   But if the guy has exhibited no other signs of poor behavior, he deserves the chance to attempt to reform it – upon which the woman can decide for herself if she can live with his level of inappropriate flirtation.

10. Markus Dec 10th 2007 at 08:44 pm 10

    Hi. My name is Mark. I’m a 38 year old divorced father of 2. I like to appreciate the beauty of the human form, actually all natural physical beauty. Although I’m completely straight I will even mention if a man is unusually attractive. All that said, if I could find “the one” I would make damn sure that I never “over-looked”.

11. Gigi Dec 10th 2007 at 09:55 pm 11

    I think a lot of people muddy the waters by contrasting ogling with cheating. Ogling always gets dismissed by some excuse like: “Well, he may be an ogler, but at least he’d never cheat.”

    Ogling by itself, can be hugely inappropriate. My father never once cheated on my mother in their 50+ years of marriage. But he wouldn’t hesitate to blatantly turn his chair in a restaurant so he could stare at a woman he found attractive.

    I spent years watching my mother suffer in embarrassed silence while my father swanned around fancying himself a real ladies man, calling waitresses “honey” and stewardesses “dollface”.

    He used the same arguments that Evan uses too. He’d complain that my mother was trying to stifle the side of him that she fell in love with. She once confided to me that there was nothing about that side of him she loved at all. She tolerated that he was a schmooze and self-promoting fake in public, and it was his tender, private side when they were alone that she loved.

    I love my dad, but it makes me very angry to think of how he treated my mother all those years. And for the record, she did tell him that his behavior hurt her, and he just couldn’t stop himself from flirting and making eyes at other women.

    So, Karen, just because your man isn’t a a “womanizer” does not make it OK for him to be the way he is.

12. Shealagh Dec 10th 2007 at 10:24 pm 12

    Evan said: “Instead, find a time when everything’s humming along and say, “I’ve been thinking…” Now you have his attention. “…

    And that’s when men accuse us women of bringing up their past mistakes out of the blue.

    Karen, I’m sorry, but I just don’t think there is a non-threatening or neutral way to bring his flirting/staring up to him. I don’t know of a single real-world scenario where a girl told her boyfriend that his wandering eye was hurting her feelings and he calmly accepted her statements and stopped doing what he was doing.

    Personally, I don’t think a girl should have to have this conversation with a guy. Any more than a girl should have to ask her boyfriend to not make those farting noises with his armpit at the dinner table. If he’s behaving that way… if he has to be told…then he’s not ready for a serious relationship. Sounds like your boyfriend has a long way to go.

    Like you said, he entertains himself by forcing eye contact with women. Really? The last guy who did tried that with me was a 16-year old gangbanger. The question you have to ask yourself is whether or not you want to be there to watch this guy acquire some maturity.

    I don’t think anyone here would fault you if you just excused yourself from the relationship as drama-free as possible – without making an issue of his staring – by saying you don’t think it’s a good fit.

13. downtowngal Dec 11th 2007 at 04:41 am 13

    Whether intended or not – and I know most guys have no idea what they’re doing when they stare at other women – she needs to get across to him somehow that what he’s doing hurts her. And he can’t be defensive about it.

    A friend of mine went through this with her husband when they first started dating. He was a bit younger than she, but when he realized how much it hurt her he made a concious effort to stop.

    There is no reason why anybody should settle for anything less than total respect in a relationship.

14. Steve Dec 11th 2007 at 07:26 am 14

    
    Selena Dec 10th 2007 at 05:07 pm 6

    He’s walking with his girlfriend and walks into stores where he spots an attractive woman through the window? I find that very weird, kinda creepy even. Add to that, the one time his gf jokingly points out his gazing–he gets defensive and won’t say anything? I’ll bet his behavior has been pointed out to him before by previous girls he has dated.
    

    I concur completely with Selena.

    In regards to the defensiveness being a sign old dates have brought up the issue before, I have seen this pattern recently for myself. A friend of mine is living with a guy who is a tremendous slob. We aren’t talking about socks on the floor, but Oscar Madison leauge stuff. When she talked to him about it he got very defensive and later indicated that previous girlfriends had brought it up with him. He still hasn’t changed.

    I’m with Evan on this, give him one good chance with one non-threatening conversation about it. If he doesn’t change, move on.

15. christine Dec 11th 2007 at 09:24 am 15

    hi mark,

    where do you live? i’m in the chicago area.

    christine

16. Jen from NYC Dec 11th 2007 at 01:57 pm 16

    I used to believe that my boyfriend should ONLY lust after me and yeah, look at other girls, but not be turned on by other girls. Yeah, that was so five years ago. As I have grown older, more mature and way more confident with myself, I have come to accept that it would be completely rediculous and unrealistic of me to think my man would not check out other women. Oh, and that my man would not sometimes comment on other women. It is normal, human, and animalisitc. In fact, if he didn’t sometimes say the stupid coments he says about other girls (i.e. she has big boobs or she is pretty) than I would worry. I dated a guy who used to tell me the men we saw in Nordstroms men department were good looking…..yeah that relationship did not work out!

    Okay, so where does this all leave Karen? Well Karen, I guess the question is, if you have addressed this like Evan wrote, in a non-judgemental and calm manner, and he continues to practice the same behavior that you find hurtful, than it is time to re-evaluate and perhaps find a guy who tells you are beautiful and marriage material and ALSO respects your wishes. As a social worker and someone who has a lot of experience in speaking with people, even people who are close to me, about sensative topics, it really does work best when you do not attack the person, but rather express your feelings in a rational, calm tone. No one really responds well to being yelled at or criticized. People shut down and stop listening when they are attacked. (Not that I am accusing you of attacking your man.)

    Personally, I would so not be okay with my man physically taking me into a store, restaurant, etc to just “check out” how hot a girl is. That crosses the line. I mean,okay lets say you both spot Catherine Zeta Jones. I would run into the restaurant and stare too as she is my woman crush. If he did it once and thought it was funny, than okay. But repeatidly while holding your hand is just bizarre and I 100% think he is aware of what he is doing. In fact, if he is constantly telling you how sexy and beautiful you are….is that out of guilt and making up for his inappropriate behavior? I get mad at my boyfriend sometimes for not telling me enough that I am pretty, sexy, etc, but I think if i heard it all the time, I would feel it was so disengenous. You know? Actions speak volumes over words!!!!

    Lastly, and sorry for the novel, but no one known your man like you do. What do your instincts tell you? As a woman, you have the gd given gift of listening to your gut if you chose to pay attention. Let me end by saying (and please all situations are different I know) that I dated this guy who told me constantly how great I was, how I was his soul mate, how pretty I was, and that I was going to be his wife….but he also told me all the time how pretty his sister was, and I would could I not be more like her, and did things that consitently hurt me. Okay, so he told me all the right stuff in order to convince me I was the “one”, but not one of his actions as a boyfriend showed me or made me feel I was the one. I dumped him. It hurt like hell and I was upset for months, but in the end, I found a guy who yeah, looks at other girls (most guys do) but is overall very respectful about it, we can laugh about it, and shows me on a daily basis (and tells me at just the right time) that I am one of the most important people in his life. That is why I go to sleep at night knowing my man loves me, but can check out other girls repsectfully, and I never have to wonder.

    Jen

17. mrs. vee Dec 11th 2007 at 01:59 pm 17

    Karen –

    Overly flirtatious men like your boyfriend or Gigi’s father are deeply insecure. They’re the male counterparts of those bimbo women who go out in too much makeup and not enough clothing to get noticed. At the end of the day, they just want the attention. They want constant reassurance that they’re likable and desirable, because they can’t generate that sense of self-confidence from within.

    Ironically, most flirtatious men consider themselves confident because they’re willing to do what it takes to get the kind of attention they want. But ultimately, what’s more genuinely sexy/confident? the strong silent type who already knows his self-worth? or the self-ingratiating guy who gets in your face and insists you find him endearing?

    To me, it’s a no brainer.

    So I ‘m not surprised that you’re getting an ick reaction to your boyfriend’s behavior. He’s wearing his insecurity on his sleeve.

    Good luck!

18. Jen from NYC Dec 11th 2007 at 02:04 pm 18

    Just a side note, I check out other guys too. We are human. Just because you love someone and commit yourself to one person, does not mean you can turn off the natural instinct to find others attractive. I work in a hospital with a lot of hot doctors, but I am not intentionally following them down the halls to talk to them or staring at them. I flirt, we all flirt but that is where it stops!

    Jen

19. ursula Dec 11th 2007 at 04:15 pm 19

    We’re all human. We all look. This has nothing to do with the fact that he may find other women attractive. Most contributors to this thread acknowledge that it’s not the fact he’s attracted to other women that’s a problem.

    The issue here is the odd, creepy behavior the guy’s exhibiting, and the underlying immaturity/insecurity that causes him to act the way he does.

    Even if he stops his visible behavior upon request, I’d still worry about what’s left in his psyche.

20. Markus Dec 11th 2007 at 08:27 pm 20

    Christine, I’m near Philly.

21. lorelei Dec 12th 2007 at 12:07 am 21

    Evan, pardon me for saying, but your experience with your ex- who accused you of flirting where you weren’t has nothing to with Karen and her weirdo boyfriend. You seem to be presenting your defense arguments in a fight you’re still having with her in your head. Let it go, my friend, if just for your own peace of mind.

    Karen, believe it or not, I’m still going to agree with Evan on the one-warning course of action. Talk to your bf about it just once. It’s the fair thing to do. Even if he may not be a grown-up in the way he reacts to the topic, at least you can remember that you were big about it.

22. Evan Marc Katz Dec 12th 2007 at 09:12 am 22

    Hey Lorelei,

    Before your comment appeared, I wrote you an email about it – except the email bounced back. So before you go off on a rant on another site, why don’t you give me your real email address so I can address you in an adult fashion?

    For what it’s worth, I can take constructive criticism on my own website – look around, there’s plenty of dissenting opinion.

    What I won’t take, however, is a meanspirited diatribe. And your original comments indicate that you might not be interested in playing nice. If that’s the case, I respect your decision to go to another blog where the host lets his readers insult him vociferously. Not in my house. Disagree all you want, but don’t make it personal. You crossed the line.

23. Jen From NYC Dec 12th 2007 at 09:38 am 23

    OMG Evan do I have to insult you to get a comment back from my commentary? Just kidding. I think this blog is a great space for readers to express their oppinions. I am so confused, how is this about Evan? If you cannot relate personal experiences to a bloggers question, than how can you possible dispense advice? Right? Please, I tell my personal dating stories all of the time but it is not because I am not over it, or still debating it in my head. We live and learn and teach others by sharing. Letting go is the easy part, it is erasing some of the scary-ass memories we create with people we date that is the hard part!

    Jen

24. lorelei Dec 12th 2007 at 12:02 pm 24

    I apologize if my comments that you omitted seemed more insulting than irreverent. I was going for funny, not mean, which is why I’d included the little winky emoticon that also got deleted with the passage.

    However, my censored comments simply pointed out that you spent six paragraphs on jealousy and paranoia, which had nothing to do with Karen’s specific plight. That simply indicated to me that you view this blog as a platform to personally vent (at whom, I don’t know) as much as one to enlighten your readers. I didn’t attack your character.

    I enjoy the complexity of the topics you discuss and the challenging, provocative way in which you write about them, which is why I was disappointed in your choice to stifle my own sassy form of expression.

    I can assure you the e-mail address I provided is a valid one and welcome your thoughts. And I ask you to reconsider posting my original comments for your esteemed readers to judge for themselves.

25. sheseizereason Dec 12th 2007 at 05:40 pm 25

    Whoa. I have no idea what Lorelei could have possibly written to spark this feud happening before our eyes, but can’t we all just get along please? I read Evan’s post closely and, yes, it appears that Evan committed the “grave” sin of veering off onto a long tangential tirade against his ex-girlfriend. (I’d say everything from “Talking to strangers…” to “…This is YOUR issue, not his…” did come off like he was still mentally quarreling with/lecturing the ex, as all that stuff clearly didn’t pertain to Karen.) But so what? I still craft arguments in my head with people I haven’t spoken to in years. I think that’s a fairly common and human thing.

    Yes, he’s still mad at his ex. Yes, he took the opportunity to continue making his points as though she’s somewhere out there in the audience. But big deal. It’s HIS blog, which makes it HIS prerogative to vent, and he’s well within his jurisdiction.

26. jerseygirl Dec 12th 2007 at 07:29 pm 26

    The whole point of this is whether Karen is justified in feeling that her boyfriend is being disrespectful towards her and what she should do about it. Evan was trying to relate by bringing up an incident with an ex girlfriend who had a jealousy streak. Honestly, Evan, what this has to do with Karen’s issue I don’t know, but I’ve noticed this pattern with some advice you’ve given on other topics. Perhaps what you’re saying is that this is what many guys believe, whether we gals like it or not. If that’s the case I’m joining a convent because there must be no hope I’ll ever find a guy who will respet me for me. At that rate the human race will die out.

27. Lyn Dec 12th 2007 at 10:28 pm 27

    It sounds to me like your guy is oblivious of his attitude, but also indulges in staring at other women. If he does it, is because it is pleasurefull for him to do so, yet he is oblivious that doing so hurts you. Maybe he thinks it doesnt bother or hurt you since — he already thinks you are beautifull, and obviously admires you above all others — enough to choose you. Maybe he thinks you have nothing to worry about in regards to “competition” so he allows himself to do this in public. Nonetheless, the physical action of staring for 10 minutes, and dragging you into the store where the other beautifull girl is at — is shameless, and rude. It also shows he is oblivious of your feelings, and I find it very egocentric. I think you should talk to him, in a non-threatning manner, and see where it leads you. Ideally, he will stop staring and going out of his way to stare at other women, because his greated indulgence would be to respect you. If he doesn’t, you shouldn’t put up with it. There are a lot of intelligent, witty, silly, smart, handsome men out there, that have probably seen what he does when you guys are together, and probably thought to themselves “damn, if i was him, i would never do that.” Your guy needs to get a grip.

28. Markus Dec 13th 2007 at 06:47 am 28

    You guys are seriously missing EMK’s point. Let’s sum up. He told the girl to have a level-headed discussion with the guy and if he doesn’t comply, drop the axe. Everything else is window dressing.

29. Steve Dec 13th 2007 at 07:08 am 29

    Evan;

    Aside from the better content, I read blogs to get away from the incivility that seems rampant in types of internet fora. I enjoy the comments on your blog almost as much as your essays. Thanks for drawing a line about being insulting to people ( in this case you ) in your comment section.

30. mrs. vee Dec 13th 2007 at 08:21 am 30

    As is usually the case with all jealousy tales in relationships , it comes down to perceptions and compatibility.

    Evan, would you know if your ex was jealous with all her boyfriends? Or just you?

    It could’ve been some friction between your personalities that didn’t allow her to trust YOU in particular.

    Case may be the same for Karen.

31. Lyn Dec 13th 2007 at 08:43 am 31

    Maybe Karen’s bf needs some type of psychological help — it sounds like a compulsive behavior — about Evan flirting and his ex getting upset… and now him using that as an example of “paranoia” versus “normal feelings of disrespected” – yes there is a difference, but this guy is physically going out of his way to flirt for long periods of time. Where in that problem is there space to misinterpret his attitude as “girlfriend paranoia.”? Unless there is a medical reason behind his behavior, I don’t see why he is not being labeled as a “jerk”

32. Lyn Dec 13th 2007 at 08:44 am 32

    about Evan flirting and his ex getting upset… and now him using that as an example of “paranoia” versus “normal feelings of disrespected” – yes there is a difference, but this guy is physically going out of his way to flirt for long periods of time. Where in that problem is there space to misinterpret his attitude as “girlfriend paranoia.”? Unless there is a medical reason behind his behavior, I don’t see why he is not being labeled as a “jerk”

33. Evan Marc Katz Dec 13th 2007 at 08:48 am 33

    While I often filter thru my own experience to make a point, I think my tangent wasn’t on target enough. Oh well. And not to belabor my personal backstory since it really doesn’t matter (really, it doesn’t) – but the ex had a previous boyfriend who was a polyamorist. She was also insecure since she was once overweight. Couple those two factors with my penchant for flirting, and, well, things played out predictably. I hear she’s married, and presumably happy, and I wish her all the best. I also wish she trusted me more. C’est la vie.

34. sheseizereason Dec 13th 2007 at 02:42 pm 34

    To Markus, who said: “You guys are seriously missing EMK’s point. …Everything else is window dressing.”…. Well, to be fair to those of us who veered off topic, there certainly was an awful lot of tangential “window dressing” in EMK’s own post to distract us.

    To Lorelei, for some reason, your last comment (#24) didn’t appear until after my last comment (#25). I thought your apology was pretty cool, and your points were valid. I sometimes see some snarkiness going on between commenters in this blog, but in those cases the barbs are never directed at Evan. I have to wonder just how bad your insults had to get before the big guy decided to whip out his cyber red pen.

35. Jen from NYC Dec 13th 2007 at 02:43 pm 35

    Oy oy oy. I know I often simplify things when I make comments about dating, men and women, etc. I guess I really just cannot understand why people make dating to complicated. After a lot of soul searching and painful experiences in my past relationships, I finally came to accept and understand that relationships do not have to be so hard or emotionally draining. I also have come to understand that there is no such thing as the “perfect man” who will never hurt my feelings, look at another woman, or always think of me first. harsh, but true.

    Dating is complex because we all come to the table with so many expectations and this romantic belief that our signifigant other should “lives and die” for us only. It just does not work like that. What does work is finding a partner you feel compatible with on many levels. You can never be 100% compatible with anyone.

    When it comes to dating. it is one of two things. Actually, 3 things.
    1) You just put up with your sig other’s annoying actions because almost everything else outweighs those few annoying things and it really isnt so bad but just annoying

    2) You absolutely cannot and will not tolerate a person’s actions, you try to change the person or demand they see your point, which they ultimately never do, which than causes resentment which often leads to breaking up

    or

    3) You are just so insecure and have absolutely no self-esteem so you keep your mouth shut about what really annoys you because you are afraid to be single again, live in denial about how you feel and pretend you have the best relationship ever, although you feel so unfillfilled and alone.

    Honestly, it comes down to what you can/will tolerate. I can tell you that my ex is definately treating his wife the same way he treated me. How do I know? I have heard stories…and it is human nature. We really do not change. Some of us grow, but most people work and thrive in patterns and personalities ultimately do not change. If he was an asshole to me, he is most likely an asshole or at least somewhat of an asshole to her. The difference is, she is accepting to tolerate it, where as I said no freaking way.

    So for Karen, she either tolerates it or moves on. Evan moved on because his girlfriend didnt tolerate his flirting. My boyfriend tells me all fo the time I am so patient and understanding where as his ex used to scream at him and put pressue on him because he well, is always late and is not a guy who knows how to hussle if you know what I mean? Well, it bothers me a lot and we talk about it a lot and because I love so many things about him, it does not come between us enough to cause a break-up. His ex couldnt tolerate it and he didnt like the way she handled it, so he dumped her. Yeah, that is the nature of relationships. It is all about what you can handle.

    Unfortunately so many people fall into #3 that they just stay in sucky relationship and deal with it even though they may secrertly resent or even hate their spouse or sig other. That sounds fun! The one thing I learned from my parents 37 years of marriage is that my father puts up with a lot more than I ever would from a spouse, but it works for him. Again, if Karen can tolerate the flirting and accpet that she cannot complain about it if her sig other is not going to change, than fabulous! The most annoying thing ever is the person who habitually complains about their boyfriend/girlfriend but choses not to move on. I have no patience for it. And spare me the “We have so much history” line. I lived it and my history is now history.

36. hunter Dec 13th 2007 at 06:27 pm 36

    the walking into stores just to see a woman has got to stop. As for looking, I agree with Evan, the man doesn’ have to be executed, for doing that…….I remember dating a woman, who, would point out, attractive women walking by. I won’t look other places, when, I have someone, I like, with me….

37. chiara Dec 13th 2007 at 07:31 pm 37

    Jen,
    I have to disagree with you all the way out there in New York City. People don’t MAKE dating complicated. Dating and mating (and affairs of the heart in general) ARE complicated. If relationships were simple matters, they wouldn’t mean so much when they actually do work. And with all due respect, if your lengthy comment was your idea of the “simple” approach to dating, I have to wonder how long your description of the complex approach would be.

    I see so many shades of gray in between the 3 neat little buckets you laid out. For example, Karen- in her current stage of doubt – falls into … what? Bucket#2? Because she’s about to request that the guy she’s dating change himself for her? Because she’ll attempt to try to get him to “see her point”? In your taxonomy of things, that’s the category where she sorta fits the most. But I don’t think she’s intolerant. I think she’s got a valid reason to object to his behavior. Nor do I think she’s been spinelessly hanging out in Bucket #3 all this time just because she’s been letting his behavior slide.

    Matters like this are rarely solved without us humans delving into the weeds and, yes, letting things get complicated in our hopes to improve them overall.

    Which is why I find this “tell-him-once-and-you’re-done” approach so highly unrealistic. The guy obviously has some deeply ingrained reflexes when it comes to other women. Does anyone here think there’s a snowflake’s chance in hell that he won’t slip up again if she talks to him just the ONCE?

    What if he messes up after the first talk, but she knows he’s been trying? Does she dump him on the spot? Keep giving him chances? And if she keeps giving him get-outta-jail-free passes, how long before she becomes a chump for sticking around, while simultaneously becoming a shrew for nagging at him repeatedly that he change? And who wants to bet he accuses her of being jealous/paranoid at least once?

    If things were truly simple, she’d know her tolerance level intuitively; she could draw the line now, without having to first feel her boundaries being breached firsthand. But no one is born with a priori knowledge of their limits. Our personal parameters have to be experienced, through trial-and-error, through the risk of getting hurt in the process, and at the sacrifice of the tidy little conceptual boxes we try to organize life into.

    So Karen, I’m with Mrs. Vee. Assuming your goal is to have a better-behaved version of your boyfriend in the long term (as opposed to absolute confirmation that you should dump him), is he truly worth it to you? Because you’re about to open a can of worms, where it seems the only certainty is that the solution process is gonna be complicated.

38. Selena Dec 15th 2007 at 12:54 pm 38

    I don’t think dating is all that complicated. We meet someone we are attracted to, we get to know them. If that goes well there is a shiny, limerance period where flaws are either overlooked, or considered diminished in importance. It’s when the “newness” wears down the warts become more noticable.

    That’s when we start weighing “the good vs. the bad” when it comes to the relationship. Is the guy who parties alot still charming, or is he just a drunk? Is the girl who is always dressed to the nines and has “good taste” still stylish or bankruptcy waiting to happen? Is the excessively obvious girl-watcher just mildly annoying or downright disrespectful?

    Karen’s bf might make an effort to be less obvious if he knows how much it bothers her, or he may not. (I am what I am, sayeth Popeye) But the choice then becomes hers to either stay with him because, for her, his good qualities outweigh the bad or to dump him because she’s sick of the staring and by extention, sick of him.

    It’s not complicated, it’s simple.

39. valerie Dec 15th 2007 at 07:43 pm 39

    If all you’re looking at is the end result (either she dumps him or she doesn’t) then I suppose her choice is simple. Keep the guy or kick him to the curb.

    But if dating itself were simple, it wouldn’t be an endlessly fascinating topic and this blog would have far fewer readers.

    Those who proclaim that dating is just a piece o’ cake do so either out of bravado or a preternatural talent for certainty.

    Karen, have we made things crystal clear for you yet?

40. Selena Dec 16th 2007 at 07:30 pm 40

    “Those who proclaim that dating is just a piece o’ cake do so either out of bravado or a preternatural talent for certainty.”

    Hmm. I don’t think I, or anyone else, has proclaimed dating *just a piece o’cake*. Anyone who’s dated a bit (or quite alot!) knows it isn’t so easy to find someone you really click with. Someone with whom you are compatible in the areas of greatest importance to you BOTH. Whatever those may be. That actually involves taking the time to really get to know each other and possibly re-styling your idea of Mr./Ms. Perfect. Or not–depending on the extent of your criteria.

    Preternatural talent for certainty? Not much preternatural about some of the situations Evan writes about. The 50-something man who wants to find someone 20 yrs. his junior to have children with is having a hard time. Well, that’s because women that age tend to want to have children with someone closer to their own age. Duh.

    Man is losing women because he wants to wait until marriage to have sex. The majority of available women want sex before marriage. Duh.

    Women/Men wonder why the people they went out with don’t call them again. They just weren’t that interested, but didn’t want to be rude and say so on the date. Duh.

    The girl with the over-the-top oggling bf? My preternatural talent for certainty suggests that if he doesn’t curb this behavior she will dump him. She wrote, “It’s made me not want to go places with him anymore.”

    How long do you think she’s going to be happy being a shut-in thanks to him? Duh.

    Evan’s blog is so fascinating BECAUSE we can see ourselves and our dating duh’s! in the stories of others. Bravado? Nah. But I do like this quote of Erica Jong’s I find applicable:

    “Advice is what we ask for when we know the answer, but wish we didn’t.”

41. karen Dec 16th 2007 at 11:02 pm 41

    Wow. First of all, I have to thank the many people who have written and given their advice and thoughts. Many, many of you are quite intuitive. And I say that as an intuitive person, who like many, struggle to be so with her own life.
    Each of us come with “baggage” to a relationship. Especially if we are no longer young and in the throws of new loves and life’s experiences.
    I’m in my 40’s. I’m divorced with 3 kids. So, I’m not new at this. Nor jaded and skeptical of all I meet.
    I’m open-minded and fair, and know we all have our imperfections and issues. And yes, it is a matter of weighing the pro’s and con’s with relationships.
    I actually wasn’t looking for a committed relationship when I met this man. I was done with marriage, and figured that dating was suiting me just fine and it was all I needed and wanted.
    But, he turned out to be a wonderful man. Who, does have this habit of looking. And no, I don’t like it.
    You have all offered such interesting bits of insight. I too wondered if this indicated insecurity and a need to have his ego stroked by acknowledgement of his existence/good looks. Or, was he leering and just simply inappropriate?
    Well, the stuff hit the fan the other night at dinner with him. And he went from looking to striking up a conversation with a woman sitting next to him at the bar area we were sitting at, drinking and eating.
    And, spoke to her several times over the course of maybe 20 minutes.
    Just before this, he had been telling me how much he loved me and missed me during the day, and how I mean everything to him, etc. He was loving, affectionate, attentive…
    So why now the attention to this female?
    I sat there and told him how uncool he was behaving and how inappropriate his behavior was. Just said it without worrying about the reaction…for once. Without worrying about his ego this time. Without being “careful”. I wasn’t angry. Just stated the facts.
    I told him I feel like I’m invisible, and how he’s embarrassing me and hurting me.
    He was devastated. His body language changed. He wasn’t defensive, like I had expected. And I was matter-of-fact.
    He said he hadn’t realized that he was behaving inappropriately and apologized. But I was done with his company, and we left the restaurant. To make this shorter, we talked and he was mortified. But I was able to make my point very affectively as to the repercussions of his behavior. He admitted to being an insensitive jerk and was horrified that he hurt me. He said he had no idea why he struck up a conversation, and wasn’t trying to flirt, and agreed that if I had done this to him, he would have felt horrible too.
    I told him that if this ever happened again, we were through.

42. karen Dec 17th 2007 at 08:51 am 42

    I do have to say, upon much reflection, that I was so sure of myself when he behaved disrespectfully, that I did get through to him in a manner that Evan replied to me about. Evan had said that men absolutely don’t want to hurt the woman they care about. I believe that is true.
    I think that if we are able to state the “facts” and state our comments without yelling and ugly wording, we are way more effective.
    I can honestly say that at the time when I reacted, I didn’t care what he thought.
    I was quick to react and comment. Not wait and bring it up later. I was so sure of how I was feeling, I believe there was no way he could either deny or be defensive.
    I managed to get through to him in the way Evan had described as possible for a man to hear and assimilate, rather than be defensive only. But, it was just pure “luck”.
    I’m not mean-spirited and had no desire to “fight back” over this issue. I was so done with his attention to this woman, it was just shooting from the hip response from me.
    He’s been apologizing every day since, and has said he will be so aware of how he behaves and what he does now. And that I deserve to be treated with respect, and how he blew it.
    He assures me that he’s ready for a commitment and understands that trust and respect are what I need from such a commitment.
    I’ve told him that this kind of attention to other woman indicates to me he’s not ready for a relationship, and that’s fine, but we’re through if this is what he needs/wants when we spend time together.
    Of course, I’ll see over time if he really “got it”. And he knows clearly what the consequences will be if his attentions wander like that from me again.
    Thank you again to all who have written. You had so many amazing insights, that mirrored my own concerns and thoughts about him. Your comments have been very helpful and gave me a sense of peace that I wasn’t feeling paranoid or suffering from lack of self-esteem myself. We all deserve to be treated with respect. And your comments reminded me that my concerns were well-founded.
    Evan, thank you for your lengthy comments and guidance and for this blog.

43. karen Dec 17th 2007 at 09:18 am 43

    Oh, and to the men who have written their thoughts: Thank You! The male perspective is always of great value.
    Mrs. Vee, Chiara thank you for your comments.
    I do think it’s of value to give a person another chance. Let them know what I am feeling, and see what happens.
    I do not however, feel that I am here to change anyone. Especially in my age bracket. This man is a year younger than me. I’m not going to “change” him! I can try to get him to see how his behavior affects me, though. And then it is up to him, to either make the adjustment, or risk losing me.
    If this relationship is as important to him as he says, I would hope that he would adjust his behavior so he doesn’t give me the wrong impression, nor hurt me.
    He knows the curb is waiting for him if he doesn’t adjust this behavior and hurts me again. That’s all I can do.
    And yes, he has been so wonderful the scales are heavily weighed in his favor and he has my heart. But, I won’t stay and be a fool, either.
    Thank you all again for your time and words.

44. valerie Dec 20th 2007 at 08:15 am 44

    Selena: “I don’t think I, or anyone else, has proclaimed dating *just a piece o’cake*. “

    **~**~**

    Selena: “I don’t think dating is all that complicated. …It’s not complicated, it’s simple.”

45. verbosity Dec 20th 2007 at 02:36 pm 45

    Everyone, there’s a big difference between looking at the storefront’s window to see what’s on display, and plastering your face and hands against that window as if to say, “Oh boyoboyoboy! I want that!”

    Those who get upset at the former are irrational. Those who get upset at the latter are not.

46. Selena Dec 20th 2007 at 04:13 pm 46

    Valerie,

    Piece “o’cake” to me would mean easy, not complicated. How do you define complicated?

    Selena:”Anyone who’s dated a bit (or quite alot!) knows it isn’t so easy to find someone you really click with. Someone with whom you are compatible in the areas of greatest importance to you BOTH.” As far as dating goes, you meet some people you hit it off with, others you don’t. I don’t see what’s complicated about that.

    We certainly can make dating complicated if we insist on analyzing and over-analyzing every nuance of the other person’s words & behavior. I’ve certainly been guilty of that in the past. But you know, inevitably it was pretty simple–either the interest was there, or it wasn’t–for each of us. Haven’t you found that to be true?

47. downtowngal Dec 21st 2007 at 04:48 am 47

    Karen, thanks for the update – it’s great to see that you were able to work things out with your boyfriend.

    Funny, this communicating with guys thing. Evan and other guys giving advice say to wait until a guy is in a relaxed mood and more receptive to hearing what you have to say. I”ve tried that but got nowhere. Even when he’s receptive to listening, he may go on and repeat the same behaviour, then thinks he’s walking on eggshells because he doesn’t REALIZE what he’s doing when he’s doing it until I tell him – after the fact when I think he’s in a relaxed mood – oh, how passive agressive.

    Alternatively you don’t want to completely flip out on the guy. But I think calling him on it in a confident, direct way at the time – just like Karen did – will make him realize what he’s doing to upset you without thinking ‘oh shucks I can’t do ANYTHING right with this girl’.

48. tipperella Mar 1st 2008 at 12:59 am 48

    Lots of great insight in this poll.

    Karen- this goes out to you? Just wanted to follow up and see if your boyfriend lived up to his promise. How are you two doing?

49. Chanel Mar 4th 2008 at 12:13 pm 49

    I used to have the same problem with my boyfriend.
    We were together 8 months,and everytime he did it,i always forgave him,hopeing he would eventully change.

    At the end,we ended up breaking up.
    2 months and 3 weeks later,he asked me back and he’s changed so much.
    He told me ha has grew up ALOT and he definatly has.
    I can go anywhere with him now,and i don’t have to worry about him glancing at other women,as everyday he tells me how beautiful i am,and how much he loves me.
    Now,we’re engaged.

    x

50. caroline mazza Mar 26th 2008 at 01:22 pm 50

    I know how you feel. I have one too. But he just started to do it alot more since he’s turned 48. If you think your guy’s bad now wait till he hits midlife crisis. And yes guys have eyed me and hit on me but i never gave them any inclination that i am interested because i’m not. That’s the key.
    Get rid of him now he’s not going to get any better especially after a couple of kids and 5 years of marriage under his belt. If women went with every guy that hit on them every day there wouldn’t be enough hours in the day to contend with them all!!

    Good Luck

51. JerseyGirl Mar 27th 2008 at 05:41 am 51

    I think this man is disrsepectful and she should cut ties with him. I don’t understand how a grown man can’t be aware of his own behavior. This isn’t a once-in-while look. He is doing a 360 with his head to look. I think most men understand that checking out other women, when your girlfriend is right there, has the possiblity of being hurtful. Do all women have to settle for so little from their own man to have some kind of relationship?

    I also don’t understand how she is expected to pander to his emotional reponse when he clearly isn’t able to do the same. Evan mentions being non-emotional and asking him to change his behavior because we don’t want to make *him* upset. He clearly already made her upset but I guess that doesn’t count for anything?

    Of course, I do notice other attractive men however it is such a passing thought that I never use to think to mention it to my boyfriends. Since discovering how men really are, alot of men do make comments about how hot other girls are, I now do the same. If I see a hot guy, I mention it. I only do it because guys feel the need to comment on women and since men are not always very loyal and have wandering eyes, its fighting fire with fire. Probably not completely fair, but then again men in relationships checking out all different kinds of women isn’t fair either. Unfortunetly, men have taught me that they are never happy with what they have.

    I HATE being out in public and seeing a man with his own SO or even his family checking me out. Not only do I feel bad for the woman, I don’t feel as if she has a good man who truly values her. Maybe men should focus more on what they have instead of what they don’t?

    As for insecurity issues. Well in all honesty, I don’t know how men expect women NOT to be insecure with the amount of time men spend looking at other women, wanting to go to strip clubs; and the various other ways men indirectly give attention to and seek out other women despite having a woman that cares for him.

52. AJ Apr 1st 2008 at 05:56 am 52

    Hi Karen,

    I’m also in my 40’s. Your BF sounds like my ex to a Tee. We married at a young age and then I began noticing his oogling womens breasts in public. It was so embarrassing to me and hurtful. When I mentioned it he vehemently and defensively denied staring and claimed I was paranoid. He said “Im here aren’t I”?

    Later on when it continued..as it certainly did continue, he would stare and then rub his eyelashes to try to stop. He would blush. If we were conversing, his mind would wonder onto the female and he would lose his trend of thought.

    After a while we both didn’t want to go out much. It progressed then to his wish to go out alone. From things he would say, I knew that when he was out working he was testing the waters with other women by flirting openly.

    He confided in me that when we first met he couldn’t stop staring and that he was imagining having sex with me. So I know thats what he was doing with these other women. And Yes, sure, he would always tell me how beautiful I was. But I felt he was comparing me to others.

    The years passed. My insecurities grew and we eventually divorced. He became abusive and also claimed he wanted other women. He may have already had affairs. One of his last comments to me was “There are a lot of fish in the sea”.

    For years I tried to let it go because he had redeeming qualities and was the father of my children, but I short changed myself.

    He now claims he is a self centered jerk by nature (at least he can admit that now). His family knows him to be a compulsive liar about even greater things.

    And while I believe his low self esteem is at the core of his problem, he would never consider seeing a therapist then or now. I am just thankful to be released from any more years with him.

    Its hard to give advice to someone else. But if there are children involved and this is your second time around I would run away as fast as I can.

    AJ

53. Malky Aug 9th 2008 at 07:41 pm 53

    I read these comments in response to the same question last February, when my boyfriend of four months, who stared the same way and for long periods of time while we were out together, broke up with me because I couldn’t relax about this. He contacted me again recently, and we began to see each other. On our first date after many months of being apart, he did the same thing! I DO have experiences being with men who have been unfaithful or commented they are attracted to my friends, etc., but have come to recognize I am repeating unhealthy patterns by attracting men who will treat me so poorly … because it is so familiar … not that I am paranoid! When we got together for the date, he told me he learned a great lesson from me the first time around … to never sacrifice who he is … and he told me he meant his flirtatious side! He is my ex-boyfriend again.

54. ohiogirl Aug 24th 2008 at 12:27 am 54

    I’m happy i stumbled across this on the internet…
    I’m going through something like this and really needed the advice as well.

55. cwazybabe Nov 5th 2008 at 01:45 pm 55

    ok so i just came across this blog and im going through the same deal with my boyfriend except i feel that im the one being insecure when i see another attractive girl and i feel right away that shes going to catch my bf’s attention and hes going to be checking her out. I get a bit jeolous, i start assuming that he’s already starred at her and she starring at him and i get irrate in my head.Bc my boyfriend is very attractive and so am I, (not trying to be cocky at all) but im one of those girls that gets lusted by every man i walk by! even married men and it also discust me too! sometimes right away i assume hes starring and i look at him and im like “WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT”? AND HE’LL be like huh? what are you talking about? so then that puts me on the attack mode right away and he has no idea what im talking about. bottom line i need some advice on how to stop feeling that way when i see another attractive girl and feel intimidated right away i freak out and i take it out on my boyfriend right away thinking hes starring at her when he might not even be!!

56. cali Nov 21st 2008 at 12:06 pm 56

    What a very interesting discussion. I am separated from my boyfriend of three years for a month now. We had this very same problem. We are both overweight, and were hot as hell in our prime, but we are still attractive people. We met when we were 17 and he was too shy to meet me because he said I was too pretty for him. We have had a rocky relationship because of his habit of checking out women with bit breasts. He told me in the beginning he loved women with really big breasts (his exwife is a size EE, I’m 38C). I felt a lot like Karen, felt like we could not go places where young girls are scantily clothed, swimming pools, rivers…it just got so out of control. I’ve told him how it hurts me, how inappropriate it is, and he continues to do it. Big tits are like a magnet to his little eyeballs. It’s so sad to watch because he is making such a fool of himself, I keep reminding him those hot young girls he eyeballs are probably going to want other young hot guys. I ended this relationship because I have a daughter, and I told him that staying with him was too risky because in about 5 years my girl will be a teenager. I asked him what is he going to do if she ends up wearing a D-cup, is he gonna lust for her and sneak peaks at her too? The look on his face was pitiful, he got so flushed and he looked sick.

    We broke up because he couldn’t keep his eyes off a 21 year old coworker with great breasts. I understand why he looks at attractive bodies, but I too felt invisible around certain women and I just realized that if he’s doing these hurtful things to me when we’re together, what does he do alone?

    I decided to be single and not worry about being alone and starting over this late in life. I’m sure there are men out there who do not want to hurt the person they love, because that’s what it comes down to, they either respect you and your feelings or they don’t. I decided that we should not speak to each other for months, and hopefully someday we can be friends and actually enjoy each other’s company should we bump into each other. Getting my self-confidence back has been very painful, but now I can go places without freaking out, I can talk to whoever I want and not feel ugly about myself.

    I decided to lose weight so I can feel better about myself, not for him. First thing he did was lose 15 lbs. and call me 45 days after not hearing a word from him. Deep down I know he’s miserable, because all he has are these fantasies about other women’s bodies, when he could have had me loving him and treating him with decency and respect. He likes women who are IMPOSSIBLE to conquer, even for just one night, and he’s very insecure about his penis size and how he looks naked. His body is aging like mine, but he just can’t stop wanting younger, better, tighter bodies with big tits, so I just suggested why doesn’t he just go find that then?

    Thanks everybody for all the advice, this was a very interesting read and its nice to know I’m not alone.

57. starthrower68 Nov 22nd 2008 at 05:37 am 57

    First, beware the charmer; based on the words this fella spoke to our o.p., he was laying it on pretty thick. Nice to hear, but one must really look at how sincere such flattery is. Second, say no to disrespect. The o.p. needs to take strong stand against it. Men look at other women because it’s how they’re wired. But the man who truly cares about his girl will be discreet. Again, this guy’s crossing a line. You say to him, “the man I marry will be a man who will respect me, and will consider my feelings. I hope that man is you. However, if not, I will move on so that I’m free to meet that man”. Yes, easier said than done, but we do have to have the courage to face the truth and move on. Auntie star is sympathetic to your pain.

58. alice Dec 8th 2008 at 10:29 am 58

    Hi evan. I was just looking round the internet to find out more about this subject ‘the wondering eye’ and everything you have said i have experienced.
    Well i left my ex nearly 3 week ago as i felt something wasnt right and some of my feelings towards him had changed, i eventually had no respect for him. It started off with sexual comments about other girls, which i didnt like.
    He hurt me in many ways which to him were only minor, but to me were big things. Id hate the thought of going shopping or for something to eat as i knew i would catch him gawping at other women and it would make me feel as know i wasnt good enough for him, although he would refer to me as ‘beautifull or gourgess’. But i always felt that the compliments werent good enough and if he felt that way, why was he gawping at other women if i am so attractive to him? Over the top as this sounds it got to the stage of feeling abit sick when id catch him. Basically i felt like shyte!! When i had it out with him he would say im mad, but i knew what i was seing even know it sounded weird and paranoid, it just wasnt me. But other things also made me feel insecure in the relationship like him and his ex still having phone convesations. He also had text messages and phone calls from his bosses daughter who is by the way only two years younger than him. He refered to her ”as a friend” but then his m8 told me they slept together when we were on a break a while back, so that was another reason to make me feel like crap and more insecure. It got to the point of only liking it when we were alone at home where no women were around. And how sad is that, not healthy or what? Your supposed to feel attractive and enjoy one another, not have your back up all the time waiting for his eyes to perve away.
    I made myself mad, god knows what my bloody eyes looked like. He would tell me all the time that i was the one, he wanted to marry me, have my babies. All of it. But now i think, no its all about him wasnt it I have the kids stay at home trapped and do the cooking, while he gawps at other women making me feel like crap and eventually has affairs like his dad.
    Eventually my heart gave up and i lost respect for him and with no respect, no love. I felt he had none for me as i told him it really hurt me and i felt like i was going mad constantly analysing it and thinking all those women must be better for him than i was.
    He had a past of shagging any woman in his path so maybe his inner womansieing ways would never change and he was just kidding himself that he was the faithfull type, He’s was just a ‘jack the lad’ or shall is say ‘cavemen’. But now im single ive set my standards abit higher by only being willing to settle for a guy who meets my expectations and who will make me feel attractive and that i am good enough. Ye he can find women attractive but he doesnt have to bloody gawp. I feel like a weight has been lifted of my shoulders, no more going mad, i feel free. It is hard at first as i still loved him but that doesnt mean its ok and right. Just remember that you aint going mad he just does a good bloody job at making you feel insecure. Set your standards a little higher. You can do better. Whatever you want you can get. Maybe he isnt the captain of your heart after all. Mine wasnt.

59. cali Dec 14th 2008 at 11:02 am 59

    I know how you feel alice. There’s no life in sitting home alone with your man because that is the only safe place to be. It’s been 2.5 months since my ex and I split up. We finally spoke to each other and it was not good. I looked at some photos he took when I was performing traditional dance with my daughter, and 15 of the photos were zoomed in on this 21 year old married coworker of his, turns out he’s carried a thing for her over a year ago. The photos are so sad, they are zoomed in on her breast and ass area. How gross is that?

    I was so heartbroken when we first split, watching the man you love fall in love with somebody else is so humiliating and hurtful. He constantly accused me of messing around on him, it got so bad that I became totally withdrawn from all friends, male relatives, and secluded myself in order to show him I was not doing these things. When I would travel to academic conferences I would receive 20-40 phone calls during day and night checking on me. My ex had a thing for very young, big breasted women, and when any woman wore revealing clothes he would react so strongly. In stores he always stood behind me so I could not see him do it. I knew what type of woman made him feel this way, and could predict his behavior–it really bugged me. When I confronted him about it, he would say things like nothing is gonna happen and say things like “they are married: or I would never do something with another woman because they would stalk him forever because he’s so good in bed. Never once did he mention he would not do that to me because he loved me or because he’s not that type of person.

    I’ve finally reached a point where I am excited about my future again, and I realized I had a life before I met him. I picked up where I was before I met him, I do the things I want to do, talk to folks who were once considered “off-limits” and I feel so good about traveling to conferences without checking in and assuring him I’m not cheating.

    You’re right about settling standards for potential mates/relationships. I realize I live a busy life as a single mom and grad student, and I settled for less because I was determined to make a relationship work that was simply NEVER going to. Being lonely doesn’t mean I have to force something that should come natural. Just because my ex made bad choices doesn’t mean I deserve to be mistreated and disrespected, nor does it mean all men are like him.

    I feel so good today, and as time passes it gets easier and easier…I’m beginning to forget what he looks like and that’s something I never thought would happen.

60. starthrower68 Dec 14th 2008 at 08:00 pm 60

    Cali,

    It’s sad that we often gain wisdom the hard way, pain inlcuded. One thing I learned is that if a man would not treat you with the same respect and consideration that your friends would treat you, there is a real issue there that needs to be examined. Women often give guys a pass on behavior that we would find unacceptable from friends or even family members. It also sounds like your ex was projecting onto you. A fellow who is critical of other men who are not faithful don’t always mean they are faithful themselves. It can sometimes be a sign they are not. Not male bashing here. People will sometimes come down very critically on others for behaving a certain way as a means to assuage their own guilt.

    Glad to hear you’re excited about your future. That’s a good place to be, indeed!

61. Seductress Within Dec 19th 2008 at 06:21 pm 61

    There is NO WAY that
    A) this man isn’t aware of what he is doing because
    B) if he has ever had a relationship in his life before, it has been pointed out to him.

    I wouldn’t bother talking to him about it and hoping to “change” him. He is who he is. Noticing attractive women is normal but looking, and looking again, and looking again and staring and continuing to stare and trying to catch eye contact and following women into stores to prolong the view is indeed rude but more so creepy.

    This behavior goes much deeper than what is seen on the surface.
    The amount of time he spends on this hobby is excessive and worrisome and hints at some kind of disfunctional addiction.
    This dude lives in some kind of fantasy world.

    Yeah it may sound harsh, but it’s my 2 cents.

62. Welfred Whinehouse Jan 17th 2009 at 09:12 am 62

    Everyday, seven-takes, of the same old scene. The world slows down, but my heart beats fast right now. I know this is the part where the end starts. I can’t take it any longer, all we do is linger. ‘Find a way I can tell you. I hate this part right here, I hate this part right here. I just cant take your tears. D:

63. Malky Jan 17th 2009 at 09:55 am 63

    Hello … how funny, I realize, when I re-read what I wrote back in August. Since then, I ran into him again and agreed to get together … as “friends”. Of course, friends means more than being different from being boy- and girl-friends … it means a real bond. Impossible when the person who pledges to be your “friend” is not to be trusted … still! My “friend” found time to talk to me in the car on his way somewhere, stuck in traffic, and even on Christmas … when he wasn’t already “booked” at a singles event … which is the case nearly every day. He didn’t make plans with me, just waited to see what might … develop. Anyway, I’m going round and round. What Seductress Within said about addiction is so true. My “friend” was a sex addict and glamour photographer before we met, continued seeking “clients” while we were together, and now peruses meetup sites to “sling some mud”, as he calls it. I’m still struggling to make peace with my own past; however, I know that I want to share my life with someone who will care enough about me to care that I feel safe … which is what I told him I needed. He told me that even if he was in a relationship, he’d still want to meet and make new “friends”. Is there any chance we have so cheapened the meaning of the term that it’s filtering into the way we value relationships with others?

64. Ambrosia Jan 25th 2009 at 06:18 pm 64

    One of the things I like about this group discussion is that there seems to be general agreement that when a man over-looks, leers, or ogles it is disrespectful. To be clear we cannot help but notice an attractive person, but leering is different. I have a great boyfriend, we’re a great fit, all except for the part where he ogles at other women and the part where he gets all giddy when a pretty woman talks or flirts with him, when I’m right there. OUCH! This is good fun for him and flattering for the woman he’s ogling, but it does not make me feel warm and fuzzy to watch it.

    I appreciated that Evan Marc Katz (EMK) pointed out another perspective that it is possible a woman sees or perceives something as flirting when it is not. This may not be the case many times, but it’s worth considering. I’ve tried to consider this perspective in my case. Even so, the facts still remains that my boyfriend has ogled other women when he is with me. It might be a matter of perspective when actual flirting occurs. After discussions (and arguments) he has gotten better about not ogling women. He has had some slip-ups where he has ogled a few women, and thought I could not see him doing it. Does he do this to hurt me? Sometimes, I think he has a subconscious desire to diminish me. Or does he ogle women because we live in a culture we are bombarded with images of women as sex objects? With premium movie channels and the Internet we have very convenient and easy access to lots of porn. Even without the porn, men watch sports and see scantily clad cheerleaders, or commercials where the middle-aged man wants to trade in his wife for the beautiful young model, or commercials where it’s just cute when a man ogles another woman and his girlfriend just rolls her eyes at it. Is our media brainwashing many men to think that ogling women is adorable and acceptable?
    If a woman complains about it, is she a prude? Are women being brainwashed to think they need to get big fake boobs, liposuction, and dye their hair platinum blond, in order to get and keep a man’s attention?

    If only men could be more understanding that sometimes a woman can get paranoid, even if for no good reason. A little gesture on his part to show her that he is into her and not the other woman would be better than an argument later. I remember seeing a man who cared about his wife’s feelings and I thought very highly of him. I could see that his wife was upset at another woman she thought was getting her husband’s attention. The man didn’t do anything wrong, but instead of thinking his wife was paranoid and insecure, he offered her security by putting his arm around her and stroking her back. He did that little gesture to reassure her. Now that’s what I call a gentleman. Any of those left?

65. Kenley Jan 25th 2009 at 09:08 pm 65

    I don’t think a “great” boyfriend ever knowingly tries to diminish his girlfriend.

66. Karl R Jan 26th 2009 at 09:01 am 66

    Ambrosia said: (#64)
    “If only men could be more understanding that sometimes a woman can get paranoid, even if for no good reason.”

    Evan has often pointed out that there’s no point in wishing that men/women would be different than what they are. We can’t change other people. He can’t change other people either. He can only advise people of the changes the can make to themselves.

    Ambrosia said: (#64)
    “The man didn’t do anything wrong, but instead of thinking his wife was paranoid and insecure, he offered her security by putting his arm around her and stroking her back. He did that little gesture to reassure her.”

    This man is putting into practice what Evan preaches. Instead of wishing that his wife would be different, he took action to improve the situation. You believe this man was a gentleman. I believe this man was a perceptive and pragmatic individual.

    But your anecdote is an excellent example of how a man can easily resolve this kind of situation, and I may make use of this information in the future.

67. Ambrosia Jan 26th 2009 at 08:28 pm 67

    Kenley – You’re absolutely right, and that’s something I must remember. I do not believe he knowingly hurts me. I guess the hard part is remembering at the time I need to remember, but I’ll work on it. Thanks for your comment.

    Karl R – How true, there is no point in wishing. I appreciate you pointing that out for me, because I believe it is important for me to realize that.

    I find your other comment rather interesting. I agree, the man certainly seemed perceptive. The “pragmatic” comment is interesting for me. After thinking about that comment and seeing the images of the man and woman in my mind a few more times, perhaps the man was pragmatic. I guess I’m a little on the idealistic side. Maybe I’m more than just a little idealistic since you very kindly pointed out two of my idealistic comments. I appreciate it. Thank you.

68. Karl R Jan 27th 2009 at 12:27 pm 68

    Ambrosia, (#64 & #67)
    I think it’s human nature to want to idealize/demonize people’s behavior. I recently had a few female friends try to idealize some of my own behavior … in cases when I was specifically acting in my own self interest.

    I don’t think your boyfriend is trying to diminish you. I think he enjoys staring at attractive women. I think he doesn’t realize how much it bothers you (though you seem to be correcting that). I think he lacks the foresight to recognize the negative consequences of ogling. Or he may have poor impulse control.

    Ogling isn’t always a bad thing. If my girlfriend is naked, and I’m ogling her, she’ll find it “adorable and acceptable”. (I’ve tested this with multiple girlfriends.)

    It’s the “OUCH” part that’s unacceptable. As Evan recommended, let him know that you feel hurt when he’s ignoring you and staring at other women. Don’t tell him that he’s being disrespectful. Don’t tell him that he’s subconsciously trying to diminish you. Just tell him that you feel hurt.

    If he really is a great boyfriend, he’ll start trying to change his behavior so he doesn’t hurt you.

69. Ambrosia Jan 28th 2009 at 01:19 am 69

    Karl R,

    I think he understands the consequences, because I think I made those fairly clear. I do know he has tried to stop his behavior and I have come to realize this is very difficult for him. I have realized more recently that, as you said, he really seems to have poor impulse control. This recent realization has troubled me lately. I wonder if I will be able to go on vacation with him, go to a public event, or go to a restaurant and be comfortable that he is not going to get that smirk on his face, that twinkle in his eyes, and that sense of excitement when he sees another woman that catches his fancy. I wonder if he will control his behavior for a few months and then slide back to the same behavior pattern. He and I are both divorced and middle-aged. He is not ogling young hot 20 year olds (unless they’re naked and/or have large breasts). He ogles women of his dating age. It makes me feel like he is looking for a mate other than me. Sometime ago, in one of our discussions on this matter, I asked him if he wanted to date other women. He said he did not. I wonder if I’m just convenient. Maybe he really wants that tall pretty platinum blond in the tight jeans, but he just doesn’t have the self-confidence to ask her out. Okay, and lastly, he has ogled me, said I’m hot, and that was fun. But that loses it’s fun when I have to share it with another woman.

    I appreciate and will heed your advice. Thanks again.

70. Sheepsizess Feb 3rd 2009 at 05:15 pm 70

    Hey ppl, i’ve reachable http://www.advicefromasingledatingexpert.com when i searched google
    for a humane and salutary forum, and i recognizable to loiter here)
    if you note my english bad… so be it, i’m de jure learning

71. lenkaalech Feb 5th 2009 at 10:53 am 71

    I think the girl’s name is Cinderella, but i haven’t found any info about her.
    She either might have changed her name or she is out of the biz.

    This clip is worth the download.
    If you like skinny girls…this is the one!
    Enjoy……

    link: http://depositfiles.com/en/files/0q1liua5f

72. Stalker Feb 13th 2009 at 11:50 am 72

    Tell him how this makes you feel as though you are second best and that he acts like you are nothing and that is still looking for a significant other when he does this.Tell him that when he does this he becomes less attractive to you and it erodes away the love you have for him.I told my boyfriend exactly this and it worked.He is now more subtle when he looks,not glaringly and embarrassingly obvious about it.All men and women do look but they do so tactfully and tastefully as to not hurt their significant other.When you love someone you do care about these things.A man who loves you puts you first,not his own ego or need to be Mr.Popular in front of other women.If he truly loves you he will not have a nasty ego or a need to be Mr.Popular with anyone but you.If he doesn’t put you first,dump him immediately.

73. Michelle Mar 1st 2009 at 03:43 am 73

    Evan – Looks like you’ve got some spammers in the comment section. The “Preston” guy is link-dropping, and is a known spammer. So, is the “lenkaalech” poster. How do I know? Because they both tried to leave the EXACT same comments on my Wordpress blog.

    Whoever is moderating comments should delete these 2 spammers, since they’re link dropping — and one of them (lenkaalech) is link-dropping to a “skinny girl” porn video.

74. stacy Apr 17th 2009 at 11:25 am 74

    If you don´t fell good with his actitud you should talk with him and tell him what bothers you, if he really loves you he wont do it again!!!

75. Nicole Jul 31st 2009 at 02:52 pm 75

    Hi Karen! Leave him lol You’ll find other great men.. there’s not only one. Also, you already said you’re over marriage and all that crap so it’s kind of easier to just let his inconsiderate freak ass go.
    I’m sorry, but if my special someone stared for more then 3 minutes I would dump him immediately and say “go ahead, go get her because you’re free now!”
    Maybe a little protective over myself but hey, I rather be with a magnificent, wonderful man that loves me more than staring at people he doesn’t even know than someone who doesn’t and is trash. No matter how many fake compliments or bullshit he does to make me think he’s good when he can’t even do something as simple as respect my feelings and me over all.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn’t know or is okay with their special someone disrespecting them and cheating.

76. Melinda Sep 9th 2009 at 08:53 am 76

    Wow…you guys made some very insightful comments here.
    It depends on the level of trust and respect in a relationship.   When I first started dating my husband, I noticed that he seemed to be a little bit insecure.   This reminds me of an incident about two years ago while we were dating.    We went out to a casual restaurant one night.   There was this guy sitting by himself.   In the car on the way home, I noticed that my husband (then-boyfriend) was being very quiet and sullen.   I wondered what the problem was.   We had been talkative and having fun while eating dinner, so what could the matter be?
    He told me that I’d hurt his feelings by “staring” at the guy sitting alone in the restaurant.   My immediate reaction was to be defensive because I was HURT by his accusation.   I had done nothing of the sort.   I felt misunderstood.   I know how it feels to be out with somebody who pays more attention to other girls, so there is no way I would disrespect a person I care about.    The guy he accused me of looking at wasn’t even somebody I would consider attractive!
    He is a wonderful husband, but his insecurity bothers me.   I trust him to be faithful but it seems like he has issues with control sometimes.    I believe that he doesn’t really trust me.   I have been completely faithful and loyal to him.   I have given him no reason to believe that I cannot be trusted.   Yet, I feel like he attempts to “catch” me lying all the time.   I feel like he is suspicious of me.   This was obvious while we were still dating.    He is 14 years older.   I’m still in university.   He is very critical of the way I do things.   He treats me like a two-year old.   I’m 26.
    What do you do if you’re the woman in this situation and your partner believes that you are staring at other men?   I fell in love with him immediately, almost the minute I met him.  I don’t usually believe in love at first sight but I was bowled over by his gentle demeanor and intelligence.   He is also very good-looking.   He is my ideal man, but the insecurity and constant criticism of how I behave or do things is a turnoff.     I cannot smile or make innocent eye contact with anyone for fear of being accused of staring.  I wish he understood how much I love him and that I would never do anything to hurt him.
    I realize that he has had unsuccessful relationships with women in the past, including an ex-fiancee who cheated on him with her ex (sort of a weird story there).   I’ve had my share of history with bad guys.   I HATE my ex-boyfriend.   But I’m trying not to let my failed relationships with other people influence my marriage.   It is difficult when you have been hurt, but I’m trying to move on.  I know that initially he wasn’t really attracted to me in the physical sense, although I think I’m cute.   He prefers white women and Latinas.   As time went on, I believe he became more open-minded.    A pretty girl is a pretty girl…no matter what color her hair, eyes, or skin.
    Karen, more power to you.   There was some disrespectful behavior on his part and you handled it with class.
     
     
     
     

77. sandy Nov 10th 2009 at 02:13 pm 77

    HI CWAZYBABE
    I totally understand what your saying too. I feel the same way when me and my man are out. We are both attractive but he seems to ogle girls all the time and then he tells me that he wasn’t even looking and that i just think he is because he has done so many times in the past. i instantly get my back up because when i see an attractive girl coming, i automatically think he’s going to ogle. I think we should trust our instincts on this one tho. but i’m happy to have someone elses advice on this because it drives me nuts. Recently my partner and i went on a holiday to Bali, it was horrible as everytime we went out to shop, eat, swim or sightsee, he could not stop staring at other women. On one occasion, we were out on a busy street in Kuta, people everywhere of course, my ptr and i were having a chat, then a good looking girl caught  his eye, so he cuts me off mid sentence and does a 360 turn to look at her. i felt so stupid and that whatever i was saying to him did not matter because ‘hang on a minute’ there’s a hot girl walking past. even when we were in the taxi’s he had his eyes hanging out of his head, staring at every blonde that walked passed. if i said something about it, he immediately got defensive and started calling me paranoid, insecure and jealous. We have  been together for almost 2 yrs, we’re engaged but i’m not sure if i want to marry him because of this and other reasons. Even when we drivve to the shopping centre in the car from home, and there is girls walking, he looks in his side mirrors of his car to  check them out,  right in front of me, looks in his rear view mirror. it really hurts my feelings. no wonder we immediately get our backs up as soon as a hot girl walks in. i’m so over it and don’t know if i can tolerate it any longer. These days if i even mention that i’ve  noticed him checking out other girls, he gets  defensive and tells me i have issues and that he’s tired of me nagging about it. what to do?

78. Claire Nov 10th 2009 at 10:19 pm 78

    I googled” my boyfriend is flirting what to do?”  Although this blog really helped me, I’m affraid I am very sure he was flirting and the flirt was of the worst kind.
    I actually read some aim messages of when he was speaking with girls online. I found logs of conversation on his laptop with at least 4 of them.  He was chatting with them the same way he chats with me, and he is really great at making people feel important. He’s “that nice guy”. I love him to death but he also asked one girl for a naked picture that i think she sent and he was telling her how he thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world and how where he was he could not find somebody like her, calling them baby, telling her that he missed her and more… I caught him red-handed but he claims it doesn’t mean anything for him, he did it out of boredom (he’s jobless) and that he won’t do it again. I believe it but i think it went disgustinly far. He says he knows he wants to marry me and that he didn’t think that would affect me that he NEVER had sex with any of them. I know he didn’t but I still feel very betrayed that he would say these things just to please people that don’t matter. I’m scared thinking Isn’t it a preview of my life with him if I marry him?  It’s the first time so should I qualify this as mistake?
     

79. sandy Nov 11th 2009 at 07:29 pm 79

    you know, i did read something coming straight from a guy that, all guys look, all guys are looking for something better. i’d love to here an honest answer to this question from some guys out there. If that’s the case then we might become less fearful and concerned about males staring and looking at other females. It might even make us girls more independent and confident.

80. sun Dec 20th 2009 at 09:13 am 80

    Hunter: …As for looking, I agree with Evan, the man doesnt’ have to be executed, for doing that…….I remember dating a woman, who, would point out, attractive women walking by. I won’t look other places, when, I have someone, I like, with me….
     
    As long as men are pointing out to their girlfriends all the handsome muscular guys they see, I guess it’s fine.
    

81. Sayanta Dec 20th 2009 at 09:36 am 81

    Claire, #78-

    The fact that you haven’t kicked this guy to the curb yet is extremely depressing and terrifying.

82. Marie Jan 31st 2010 at 03:34 am 82

    I have been seeing someone over long distance for 8 months, a beautiful deepening and very loving communication and times spent together, like I have never had before. Then one night on the phone he said he was going out to dinner with very little detail which was unusual and my guts turned. Previously he had talked about all the women that were after him and ex girlfrends and I had no reaction, but this time I felt very disturbed.  That night he didnt text or call as was our usual pattern and in the morning, skyped that he had lost his phone and had it back by the afternoon… saying, I suppose you are angry with me, lost my phone…had a great night., got home at midnight.  All that appeared fine but my stomach didnt settle.  I was due to meet him in 4 days and the anxiety had amped up to almost an intolerable  level, never had this fear before. Then I observed the open flirting and the lines he used with me being used on waitresses!!…and he sent me away when we had finished dining to meet him down the road while he took his time. I said something about feeling uncomfortable when he held our poor waitress up for at least 10 minutes when she had tables to serve telling her about his assets and then turned to me and said”see, I told you Canadian women are lovely” like I had bagged her something.  That is when my smile dropped and my stomach started again contorting! Anyway, since then the communciation, I love you, miss you has all stopped and he said he wants to cool it abit becasue he is sensing that I am jealous and controlling and they are big issues.  We had talked about living together. My main thing is the shock I am in right now at the sudden change…and what I consider disrepectful beahviour, he is always looking at attractive women but he baits me with unnecessary comments. Is he unaware that I am not actually a bloke? Yeterday he mentioned on the phone that a young cleaner was coming…and added… in her bikini…I spat, because to me it was obvious deliberate nonesensical triggering-who does that? Then he turned it on me and made it sound innocent, that she was coming to use the pool and I had made it up in my mind that she was cleaning in her bikini. I swore at him and he has grounded me from contact for 2 weeks for hurting him.  Are some guys, so used to their lazy sexual minds and meandering that they just forget common decency..or is he setting me up to be insecure? I relate to everything Karen said…and my guy, God I have never loved someone so much but the change has been very strange. I am younger than him, very attractive and dont have self esteem issues, but trust and loyalty and respect are huge and I have not expereinced anything like this flirty behaviour before staged as being friendly.  I have said, look all you want, just not in front of me, flirt all you like when I am not around but I am having dinner with you.  He defends he is being friendly to the point where it may end our relationship because he will not admit its a bit in the grey area and has put me on a good behaviour trial. !!!

83. Kenley Jan 31st 2010 at 10:00 am 83

    As a faithful reader of this blog, I am starting to believe that if you have to write on this blog about a relationship issue, the relationship is not worth saving.

    Marie, drop this man.  Things are not going to get better.  They are going to get worse.  He is trying to manipulate you.  Don’t let him.  Run fast and don’t look back.

84. Marie Jan 31st 2010 at 02:28 pm 84

    Thanks Kenley.  It is sad watching someone caught up in their own game and trying to manipulate, I know he is doing that.  Joggers are on and I am away as of today. People wiriting on blogs about their relationships…we are dealing with various things in a person-the genuine connection, which then gets mixed and muddeid with ego and insecurities.  Trying to work out how to manage those aspects, so that the connection get to flow is part of completely loving a person…and when it gets too hard, yes it is time to hit the ground running.

85. Marie Jan 31st 2010 at 03:04 pm 85

    I ask myself…what is jealousy actually really about, what is the insceurity stemming from?.  The feeling of losing someone, of being traded in, of becoming invisible, of not being enough…these feelings are what are evoked when I perceive over oggling, unnecessary comments, overt flirting.  It seems to severe a connection I think I have with that person, when he does that.  Another thing that comes to mind is pride.  My ego does not want another to lwoamn to look at me and be thinking, “loser honey, your guy just checked me out”.  Many emotions come into play here.  The bottom line is, if one is prepared to love and lose, then jealousy is out the window.  If I want to be cherished, respected and adored I need to look at how that feels and presents itself and if the external reality with my partner is not matching…in any way, then its time to take time out and re-assess.  I am learning to not focus on 30 second exchanges taking over a whole relationship experience.  If I am good with me, then water of a ducks back to most of the niggly indiscretions.  If there is deliberate manipulations occurring, its about his insecurities.  The next time I am with a guy, and he does to me again what I have just been putting up with, my next strategy is…exit the place where it is occurring…go to the toilet, excuse myself to make a phone call…anything to break the energy of it. Oh, and for the oggling while I am in their company, I am going to carry a postcard of a gorgeous naked man and at the appropriate time, and to keep humour and light feeling I will enjoy my time when he is ignoring me. Love to all you girls who suffer from the affliction of feeling ignored and irrelevant a times.!!

86. Helen Jan 31st 2010 at 08:32 pm 86

    Marie: Jealous???

    Dump this chump; then any poor woman who comes after you in his affections will become jealous of YOU for having gotten away from such an obvious loser.

87. losernomore Feb 13th 2010 at 06:18 pm 87

    FLIRTING: A form of human interaction between two people expressing a romantic and/or sexual interest.  It consists of conversation, body language or brief physical contact.
    FLIRTING: Playful behavior intended to arouse sexual interest.
    Therefore, kick the modderfugga to the curb, Karen.
     
     
     
     

88. jaded Mar 3rd 2010 at 10:55 pm 88

    guys look and i think most guys do even if they are in a relationship or even if they are in love.. girls look too.. i myself is facing the same problem. I hate it when my boyfriend for almost 2 yrs stare or look at other women. And guys will deny it and make an excuse of me being so  paranoid and insecure. I always tell him that even guys with tall, fair, beautiful, almost perfect girlfriends still do the thing of ogling with other women and talk about other women to other people not realizing that it could hurt his partner’s feelings.. And so I told him that those guys can even act or do that when they have perfect girlfriends- i mean physically and how much more you??!!guys always deny..that’s their nature especially when their partners are naggers and paranoid..the more they cannot open up things to you.. the more they deny the truth..they say that there’s nothing wrong with looking or appreciating as long as there’s no cheating involved.. I see the point there.. but still, I hate being in that kind of　ｓｉｔｕａｔｉｏｎ．

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