What Image Are You Projecting? – an Interview with Kimberly Seltzer

 

Kimberly Seltzer of Elite Image Makeovers is a friend who provides a valuable service: she knows how to make you look good to the opposite sex. Kim has been helping women dress for success and find love for a long time, and today, I’m going to have her share some of her common sense wisdom. Since I never tell women how to dress, today’s podcast should be an extra special treat.

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For Kimberly’s Website click here.

 

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Kim Seltzer

    I so loved doing this podcast with you Evan!  Great discussion indeed!

    1. 1.1
      Katie

      I’m so envious of your job! It looks like SO much fun! I could never do it better than you though. You’re a charmball, woman 🙂

      1. 1.1.1
        Kim Seltzer

        Ha! Thanks Katie!  I’m blushing :).  It is a great thing to help women feel good about themselves…because THAT is was is attractive!  Thanks for chiming in!

  2. 2
    ScottH

    I could sure use some help in this department.  I did once ask a female friend to do some shopping with me but I really do hate shopping (and maybe it shows).   The talk also made me more aware of the image vibe that we give off.  Yes, it’s very subconscious but also very important.  There are a lot of subconscious transactions going on between two people, especially between prospective romantic partners.

    Being an ass-man, I was also intrigued by the talk about good girl butts.  I’ll have to do some more research on that.

  3. 3
    Stacy2

    Kim: since this is about first impressions, my impression was heavily influenced by the fact that you said “like” about 100 times during this podcast.

    Hope you don’t mind some feedback. I was once quoted saying “like” in a sentence in the media and was mortified to read that quote…. Was enough for me to abolish that habit once and for all.

    1. 3.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Stacy2: Interesting thing to focus on the one thing you didn’t like about Kim instead of her wonderful advice.

      1. 3.1.1
        Stacy2

        Very hard actually not to focus on that one thing when listening to the recording. I agree with everything that Kim says and any woman who is not already doing those things should definitely do them. That said, you can’t talk like a teenager if you’re positioning yourself as an expert and seeking sophisticated women as potential clients. No offense. Just a friendly suggestion.

        1. ScottH

          I’m sensitive to “like” too but I have to say that I don’t remember that at all.  If she said it, and I don’t doubt that she did, it was surely overshadowed by her charming, engaging, and attractive demeanor, not to mention the message that she was conveying.  I kept thinking to myself that she has the kind of personality that I’d sure like to find in a woman.  When Evan mentioned in the introduction that he talked to her until 6am, I thought it was an exaggeration but after listening to her, I could easily see how that could happen.  I bet she could disarm one of the Royal guards.

        2. Emily, the original

          ScottH

          I thought she had a very positive energy.

        3. GoWiththeFlow

          Since the interview was about “image” I waited to watch it on youtube vs. listening to the podcast while driving.  So I read Stacy2’s “like” criticism before I watched the interview and wondered if a deluge of “likes” would annoy me.  I didn’t notice any at all.  Kim’s delivery was engaging  and entertaining.  If she ever does a “live event” with Evan (he threw out that idea briefly) I would pay to attend, knowing that at the very least it would be a fun presentation.

    2. 3.2
      KK

      Overuse of the word “like” grates on my nerves like nails on a chalkboard. I never noticed that at all. I thought she was quite warm and charming.

    3. 3.3
      SparklingEmerald

      Stacy2-I find it hard to watch podcasts, so I googled her and watched her on YouTube and specifically looking for repeated use of the word “Like”.  The only time I noticed her saying it was as a verb, such as “Pick out a dress that you like”.

      I find it interesting that no one else noticed it either.

      This sounds like a case of mean girl “concern trolling”.  You come off as trying to be helpful, but it is really just an excuse to put another down.  And it seems as if you fabricated something to put her down for, though I can’t say for sure as I didn’t watch this particular

      1. 3.3.1
        Stacy2

        And it seems as if you fabricated something to put her down for

        “Fabricated” it? Ladies, it is on tape. Let’s not invent “alternative facts”.

        Verbatium:
        .”..You didn’t tell the audience about our, like, Sandy moment with, like. John Travolta and…”
        “That’s where, like, that life stopped and my new life began…”
        “..It was, like, thee sizes too small and I looked at it and I said you know it’s so sweet but it’s, like, so not me and not my size and she was, like, honey it was so you and so your size..”
        This is just from the first 5 minutes of it. I appreciate your feedback on how criticism comes off. FWIW I think i delivered it as respectfully as possible. I only mention it because it is, like, very hard for me to take you, like seriously, when you, like talk like this, you know? LOL. And yeah some people have higher attention to the detail than others ( In fact my boss disqualifies everyone who says “like” even once in a job interview). But by all means it’s a free country.

  4. 4
    GoWiththeFlow

    Thank you Kim and Evan!

    I think Kim will always have work in her field.  As you go through life, your situation, social needs, free time, finances, and body changes, so it’s definitely a challenge to try and establish, maintain or evolve your own personal style.  More than one time in my life, I’ve had a moment of clarity where I realized that I don’t like how I look/how I’m presenting myself, but my old way of doing things wouldn’t work anymore.  It can be hard to put all the pieces together.

    Kim,

    Since you mentioned What Not To Wear and also your own experience with a red dress, it reminded me of a WNTW episode where Stacy London was frustrated with a woman who insisted that since she was a little girl, she always wanted a red dress.  But the shades of red she was pulling off the clothing racks weren’t flattering on her.  I assume the saleslady who pulled your red dress for you had a sense what tone of red and dress style would flatter you.  It’s great that now you can offer the same service to others.

    1. 4.1
      Emily, the original

      GoWiththeFlow,

      I don’t know about you, but I struggle with what to buy in terms of still looking trendy/fashionable without looking like I’m trying too hard. I’m way too old to be shopping in the junior department but not quite ready for the elastic-waist pants!

      1. 4.1.1
        KK

        Lol at the elastic waist pants, Emily. You crack me up. 😊 I actually look forward to that day. I’m thinking that’ll be my go to look once I hit my sixties. Heck, maybe even earlier if I snag myself an elastic pants wearing man. Lol.

        I know what you mean though. I see women my age that look really silly dressing like teens, twenty year olds. Get some good catalogues (remember those? 😉) that have models that look 30+. I love looking through them and choosing outfits.

         

         

        1. Emily, the original

          KK,

          I see women my age that look really silly dressing like teens

          My sister for a while was wearing those Juicy Couture jogging suits that said “Juicy” on the ass, and I thought: That is not a good look, particularly if your ass is … ah … a bit TOO juicy! (And before YAG jumps in here with his love of the ample hourglass figure, I can assure you him all the juiciness was in one place.  🙂   )

          Lol at the elastic waist pants, Emily. I actually look forward to that day.

          Really? That’s like getting one of those short, practical haircuts. It screams: I have given up trying to look sexy!  🙂    (Although at my age it does feel like the effort is mostly wasted since most of the men I meet are married.)

        2. KK

          Emily,

          I might feel different in 20 years. Who knows? Most of the older, attractive ladies I see are just that. Attractive for their age. Or cute. I don’t know if “sexy” would be accurate. Maybe if you’re genetically blessed like Christie Brinkley. I think she’s 63 now. Does not look 63 at all! Just did a photo shoot with SI earlier this year.

        3. Emily, the original

          KK,

          Maybe if you’re genetically blessed like Christie Brinkley. I think she’s 63 now. Does not look 63 at all! Just did a photo shoot with SI earlier this year.

          Christie Brinkely’s an anomaly, for sure, but I think Susan Sarandon (70) is still rocking it. Helen Mirren (71). Did you see the kiss she gave Stephen Colbert a few months ago on his show? She about knocked him over! A big part of her appeal is confidence. She knows she’s the bomb.

        4. KK

          No Emily,

          I didn’t see that. I like both Helen Mirren and Susan Sarandon. Great actresses.

          I remember a couple of years ago, though, seeing Madonna kiss Drake on stage and he seemed grossed out. Lol.

        5. Emily, the original

          KK,

          I remember a couple of years ago, though, seeing Madonna kiss Drake on stage and he seemed grossed out.

          Yes, agreed, he did seem grossed out. But Google the Helen Mirren/Stephen Colbert kiss. It’s a master in seduction.   🙂

        6. Emily, the original

          It’s a master class in seduction.

      2. 4.1.2
        Stacy2

        Emily, I am no expert (ehm) but i grew up in a country where women generally wouldn’t be caught dead without makeup and heels even when going to a corner store to buy milk. You get the idea. So I’ve always had the strong habit of dressing well and obviously my sense of style has evolved according to time and place… my advice would be to NOT try to look “trendy”. Trendy is for dumb instagram-obsessed teenagers. Having flattering, good quality (meaning: expensive) but timeless pieces in your wardrobe will do the trick. My advise would be also to look at European royal families (not american celebrities) for inspiration. I am a big fan of Kate Middleton’s style for example, which is to say clean silhouette solid color dresses, classic suits, nude pumps etc. Assuming those are picked right for the body type (there’s only really 3 major body types and you can quickly google the basic idea of dressing for yours), these looks are classy and timeless. Happy shopping 🙂

        1. KK

          Where did you grow up, Stacy?

        2. Emily, the original

          Hi Stacy2,

          My advise would be also to look at European royal families (not american celebrities) for inspiration.

          Thanks for the tips. I do like the way older French actresses (Cathereine Deneuve, Isabelle Adjani) style themselves. Still sexy with an element of mystery.

          i grew up in a country where women generally wouldn’t be caught dead without makeup and heels even when going to a corner store to buy milk.

          You would be aghast. I just went to the grocery store in a T-shirt, sweats, no make-up and hair pulled back in a pony tail. I think I’ve worn heels once in the last year. I still make some effort (I always wear makeup and do my hair, for example, for work or if I go out) but the clothes have fallen a bit by the wayside.

      3. 4.1.3
        Malika

        I’m in my mid thirties and am the proud owner of an elastic waist skirt! Though it is a vintage find, and very much an exception in my wardrobe.

         

        1. Emily, the original

          Malika,

          Though it is a vintage find

          I like vintage, particularly the styles from the 50s. I love animal print, too. Though I draw the line at bovine or giraffe.

      4. 4.1.4
        GoWiththeFlow

        Emily, KK, Stacy2, Malika,

        LOL on the elastic waist pants!  Do those include yoga pants?  Because if they do my casual around-the-house look is screwed!  But alas, I do know what type of elastic waist pants you are referring to and just no.  I met a friend for lunch and she wanted to go shop at Chico’s and Coldwater Creek.  She claimed I murdered her with my eyes at that suggestion.  I’m not ready for “mature” clothing lines yet 😉

        As for age appropriate dressing, I have a sister who’s Facebook feed resembles that of a 24 year old.  Our brother told me sister’s look is “gross” and asked me to make her stop.  Her twenty-something daughters don’t want to be seen in public with her.  We’re talking way beyond JUICY on the butt.  She’s not amenable to suggestions or criticism of any kind–never has been–so I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole.

        When I was in my late teens and twenties, I was very fashionable.  My grandparents owned a clothing store so we had an almost endless supply of clothes once we hit adult sizes.  When visiting them during the summers, I used to pour over the manufacturer catalogs they received and my grandma took me on trips into the fashion district to buy clothes for the store for the upcoming season.  Dressing well, and developing and maintaining a personal style is a skill that will erode if you don’t exercise it.

        When I wound up in med school and residency, I started spending most of my time in scrubs, plus I had little money, and my grandparents had long retired, so I just didn’t go shopping or keep up with life outside the hospital and my apartment.  When I finished residency and got a real job where I was making money and had time to go out, I made a concerted effort to improve my wardrobe and dress decently.  I was lucky to find a few helpful sales associates, and had a very fashionable friend to help me.  Fast forward several years and after undergoing three foot surgeries and then adopting two little ones, I fell off the fashion wagon again.

        I agree with Stacy2’s suggestions.  Through the years, I’ve also found that there are certain brands that work well for me, and others that just don’t.  Kim mentioned this in the interview.  Nothing from Calvin Klein ever fits me but Nordstrom’s house brand, Halogen, always does.  One other thing I realized is that there’s a big area between dressed-to-the-nines and dressed for yard work.  Instead of wearing yoga pants, tee shirt, sneakers, and a hoodie for errands this past fall and winter, I put on jeans or black pants, a feminine blouse or shirt, and boots or shoes with a modest heel.  I want to look good but still have my clothes work for my life which includes chasing after small kids.  I spend WAY more time at their school, the park, Target, and casual restaurants, than I do at trendy night spots.  Last night, I spent an hour on-line looking at casual dresses on a second hand clothing web-site.  I plan on adding a few more to my closet for summer.  I can’t do stilettos any more but wedge heels work well for me.  I’m small–5’2″ and a size 4-6–so clean lines and small patterns are best for me.  I look like a six year old if I’m buried under ruffles, tulle, and rhinestones.  It’s about figuring out what works for your body type, lifestyle, budget, and comfort level.

        1. Emily, the original

          Hi GWTF,

          I met a friend for lunch and she wanted to go shop at Chico’s and Coldwater Creek.  She claimed I murdered her with my eyes at that suggestion.  I’m not ready for “mature” clothing lines yet 

          That’s how I feel about Talbot’s and capri pants.

          She’s not amenable to suggestions or criticism of any kind–never has been–so I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole.

          That’s how mine is, too, but she has no shortage of opinions about how other people should live.

          When I was in my late teens and twenties, I was very fashionable.

          Yeah, me, too. More so from about 23 to about 29 or so. I see pictures of myself wearing skirts and heels but that’s when I was still clubbing, going out to bars, before life became middle-aged and appropriate.

           I can’t do stilettos any more but wedge heels work well for me.

          That’s what I wear in terms of heels or I wobble all over the place.

        2. Buck25

          Ladies,

          May I interrupt your little fashion discussion for a little request from the male side?  It concerns those little stretch thingies; I think you call them “yoga pants”. Now, we understand these are comfortable (I assume they must be,  because you wear them…well, everywhere). And therein, lies a slight, ah, problem.

          In case you hadn’t noticed, this little item of clothing leaves about as much to our imagination re the lower parts of your anatomy as a thong or a string bikini, which is to say (except for being opaque), nothing. This is very much a good news/bad news scenario for us; i.e. while we certainly enjoy the sight of a well-toned female bod so clad, the revelation of those of you a little (or a lot) less, ahem, “athletically inclined” (of whatever age, as that’s quite beside the point), so clothed (or not, actually) everywhere you go is, well…honestly, not something we really care to know, especially when we do not feel any particular desire to have so intimate an acquaintance with you as to see same in the bright light of day (or anywhere else, really). While we certainly appreciate your desire to share your, ah, “assets” with us, (visually, anyway), please note that if there is more than a little jiggle where there ought to be just a slight wiggle, the effect on us might not be quite what you had in mind. I really hate to have to say this, but if I have to see one more size 14 arse so attired, while I am simply trying to do my grocery shopping, someone is going to be calling for “cleanup in aisle 4”, and  it’s not going to be pretty, if you get my drift. Take an honest, good look in the mirror, (preferably 3-way) first, and where indicated, in the name of some empathy for our aching male eyeballs, cover it up, already! This goes especially for a certain few of you (I once thought any woman over 22 or so already knew better, but obviously that’s not true) wearing the things super tight while going commando beneath, an effect that can be most charitably described as “oversharing”. I’m sure none of you here would ever have any such lapse in judgement, but could you maybe pass on my observations to those of the sisterhood who somehow didn’t get the memo on that? Thank you for your attention to this little message. I just had a real need to vent that. I do hope you understand. Carry on.

        3. Emily, the original

          Hi Buck25,

          While we certainly enjoy the sight of a well-toned female bod so clad, the revelation of those of you a little (or a lot) less, ahem, “athletically inclined” … well…honestly, not something we really care to know.

          I’m inclined to agree with you, but be careful what you write and say. A Rhode Island man wrote a letter to his local paper espousing your views and faced protests outside his home.

          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/23/yoga-pants-women-protest-fashion-rhode-island-letter

          I think women should wear what they want to, but I don’t understand flaunting what you don’t have. Like a woman wearing a half shirt who has a belly. To quote George Micheal: There are little things you hide, and little things that you show. The same, of course, is true for men. No man, not even Michael Phelps, should wear a speedo unless competing in an event. As you wrote about a woman going commando, that’s just TMI. And not all men men can pull off spandex biking shorts.

           

        4. Stacy2

          Brands I found to be good value (since i am no Melania and not prepared to drop 10k on a suit..) so here goes:

          Ted Baker for dresses and suits (he cuts mostly for tall and skinny and since I am 5’5″ only about 40pc of the dresses fit, but when they do OMG hot!)

          7 jeans for denim hands down..

          Theory for suits that can double for day time and night time

          Acris for pretty much everything

          Tadashi Shoji for dresses. Cuts large and super flattering so if you ladies are plus sizes he’s your guy. I wear regular size 4 and had to have his size 0 dress taken in to fit…

          Calvine Klein, Polo RL for casuals

          Anne Fontaine for blouses and accessories

          Club Monaco (yes!) for staples and occasional funky pieces

          LK Bennet for shoes

          Obviously everybody is different but I found these designers to deliver on the sophisticated elegance look I personally strive to project as a “strong successful” and whatever else woman. I mean,  I am not going to wear athlesier with a man bun (which would be “trendy”) LOL. I will leave that to my trainer and her BFFs…

           

           

           

           

           

           

        5. Stacy2

          **akris** with a K. Pls Excuse typos..

        6. Chance

          Hi Buck25, I’m afraid that your’re just going to have to put up with it given the skinny shaming epidemic we have going on.  This – coupled with the social media sharing epidemic – has resulted in a sizeable swath of the female population thinking they are better looking than they actually are, but what’s the harm at the end of the day?  A lot of women think that most men believe they are better looking than they are, and life goes on.

  5. 5
    Diane williams

    Yeah , Hi their ,                                                               I’m a female and I believe like you .Those black stretch  pants  are not a good choice in fashion . They should only be for   yoga .at home .  If girls and women wear them in public  it should only be with a really long top or blouse or sweater .that covers their bottom the whole hip area down to   the middle of their thighs .           Some women do not know how to dress now a days . And they dont get it why they shound’nt    wear them in public .and also I think they like the attension that they get from some guys ect      Ok Enought said

    1. 5.1
      Stacy2

      I think you missed his not so thinly weiled mysoginistic point, that he only objects to overweight/thicker women wearing yoga pants. Same as the loser in RI who felt that “genetically blessed 20 year olds” could wear them, but I guess once you turn 21 your ass begins to look offensive? All men who are “disturbed” by a sight of a woman in leggings should GTFO. All men who are sexually turned on by a sight of a woman in leggings should get a life. Don’t make your issues our problem

      1. 5.1.1
        Jeremy

        @Stacy, I mostly agree with you – women should wear whatever they choose and need not listen to “public service announcements” from others regarding their fashion choices (with the exception of work/school environments where dress codes are present).

         

        But I must comment about one statement you made – “All men who are sexually turned on by a sight of a woman in leggings should get a life.”  It is one thing to assert that women can wear whatever they like.  It is quite another to believe that, contrary to millions of years of human sexual evolution, men will suddenly cease being attracted to the female form, or will only be attracted to it when the woman thinks it is ok.

         

        Shaming men for their sexuality will not lead to good outcomes.  Denying that men are turned on by visual stimulation will lead to unrealistic beliefs among women.  Better to say that men who get turned on by a woman in leggings should enjoy the sight discretely (no leering/commenting), and should not bother said woman  – NOT that they should feel like a loser for feeling their very natural feelings.

        1. KK

          Agreed, Jeremy.

        2. Stacy2

          Nobody is going to have an issue with your sexuality (well certainly not me) as long as you own it, control it, and behave as a civilized human being as opposed to an ape. The problem is where this line of thinking tends to go – “she wore leggings, i got turned on, i couldn’t help myself, she was asking for it why else would she dress like that!” etc.

      2. 5.1.2
        Buck25

        My, my, my, I see I touched a nerve with that little bit of comic click bait last night! Very good! Now, remember all those nasty, thinly veiled  “humorous”insults aimed at men, offered up from your side (not to mention you in particular, Stacy dear, on more than a few occasions) of the gender divide here, hmmm?

        Back at you! This one was just too juicy an opportunity to pass up! And sweetie, it’s not about misogyny at all; it’s about having your own particular (female) brand of humorous observations of the opposite sex tossed back in your direction, with a little twist, (which seems to have put a few female knickers in a twist in the process). I figured I’d stir the pot a little here (I can see I did that!), and have a little fun in the process, and the beauty of it is, that it wasn’t even mean-spirited in the least, even if the humor was a bit near the bone.

        By the by, we once upon a time had a concept, that sexy, in the context of female apparel or lack thereof, was as much in what was left to the imagination, or hinted at, rather than fully revealed. In essence, a great part of the allure is in the packaging and presentation, rather than than in premature exhibition of the (nearly) naked truth. To make it clear, while I certainly hope to imagine my date in the altogether (if I don’t there won’t be a second date), part of the fun is rather like receiving a beautifully done-up Christmas present, to wit, beholding with a sense of wonder at the sheer aesthetic beauty of the thing, followed by the anticipation of savoring the unwrapping /unveiling of the contents. The key word here is “imagine”! Cf. Sally Rand’s fan dance, which was more noteworthy for what it didn’t actually reveal, as for what it  (rather tantalizingly ) did. That’s sexy; skin tight yoga pants, (especially as I noted in my “oversharing” comment), not so much, and yes, that applies to the twenty-year old workout princess, just as it does to the slightly overweight forty-something hausfrau. Overexposure, when it becomes the commonplace, rather than the incidental or rare, ceases to be daring or provocative; just as too much wine spoils the palette and the nose, much of the allure and pleasure is lost. What might otherwise be beautiful is made less so; what is less than beautiful becomes simply gross. If I wanted to see that, on an everyday basis, I’d live in a nudist colony, or go to a “clothing optional” beach ( though come think of it, with some of what passes for fashion these days, there may not be so much difference, at that). I’m going to pause and agree entirely with Emily here, that the same applies to men; with, say, a speedo. Just….don’t even think about it.

        In any case, I personally think that this kind of oversharing and over saturation, is behind the seemingly never-ending quest for the partner with the physically perfect body and face we see in the dating market today. With everything on display, pretty much commonplace, what else is left to tantalize, excite and titillate? By contrast, a considerably less-than perfect body can be totally sexy, alluring and provocative,  If I can drop the snark and get serious for a minute, I will tell you point blank, that the sexiest women I’ve ever known in my personal life, were not the ones with the most perfect bodies. They were the ones who knew how to dress to maximize their most appealing assets, and minimize the imperfections., with everything from a simple dress, to lingerie. They didn’t flaunt; they teased, they hinted; they flashed just a glimpse. Physically, they were pretty average, but they knew how to use what they had, and the effect was seductive, all the way from a party to the bedroom. That’s becoming a lost art with a lot of today’s women, from a man’s point of view. I see that loss, in the grocery store and the mall. I see it in your profile photos in OLD.  Hell, I even see it on first dates. A lot of average women, who can’t find a look between middle-age-crazy, and middle-age-frumpy. You don’t have to be X-rated, or even R; PG-13, done right, is hotter on almost all of you. Totally G-rated frump is not, on ANY of you; what are you, your own grandma? That’s just as bad as the overexposure; says to us your libido, (assuming you remember having one) last left the building 10 years ago! Trust me. You’re badly overweight, etc. nothings’s going to take care of, but those of you with a couple of bulges, from an extra 10-20, are another matter. With a little effort, you CAN up your SMV with a lot of us, considerably. You know how any guy looks better in a well-tailored suit or tuxedo? Same applies to you. Quit trying to pour yourself into a dress or jeans two sizes too tight; drop the vanity, and either tone up or find something that actually fits, or get it altered. We don’t check the size label in your clothes, I promise. You’re over 40 and beyond, quit trying to buy your clothes in the juniors department; with rare exceptions, neither the look nor the fit is you. So what? A lot of you, once trendy doesn’t really fit you, give up and let yourself go totally frumpy; bad for us, bad for you (you look 45 going on 65, like that). On one thing I agree with Stacy2 (a certain sign the Apocalypse is upon us?); Classic is never out of style, ever. Find a classic look that works for you, and then work it. Don’t flaunt it, flirt it. You might be surprised how much we appreciate that. And in the name of anything that’s holy, save the ******* yoga pants for workouts and around the house!

        1. Emily, the original

          Buck,

          My, my, my, I see I touched a nerve with that little bit of comic click bait last night!

          Let’s be honest: You did that on purpose. You get off on stirring the pot. LADIES: Don’t respond anymore.

        2. ScottH

          Buck- after reading your comment, I checked out the site “seen at Walmart.”  Interesting site.

        3. Buck25

          Emily,

          Of course I did that on purpose! I thought things were getting just a little dull and uninspired in here, and I thought, what the hell, why not liven things up? Besides, you laughed; admit it, you know you did, so don’t go all sanctimonious  and serious now. I was in a rare really good mood, and I wanted everybody to enjoy a little merriment; even if it was at the expense of you ladies, this time.

        4. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          Of course I did that on purpose!

          I didn’t know that when reading your first post.

           Besides, you laughed;

          No, I didn’t laugh. I didn’t think what you wrote was funny. I thought you were being serious. And the reason I couldn’t tell what your tone was is that you have, on occasion, gotten very ugly with your comments on previous posts.

          I do happen to agree with you that some women shouldn’t wear yoga pants, although it is hardly my business to tell anyone else what to wear.

           

  6. 6
    James

    Buck25,
    It’s interesting, because if you say the word “flasher” to the average person the first thing that they will think of will probably be a middle aged man wearing a trench coat with nothing on underneath who goes around exposing himself.  But the truth is females flash and expose themselves at a much, much higher rate than males, and they do it for exactly the same reason that males do it.  They do it because they are getting a cheap sexual thrill from exposing themselves.  But we are not supposed to call it flashing or exhibitionism when females do it, we are only supposed to call it that when males do it.  It’s practically an American pastime to accuse males of being horny perverts, but if you accuse females of the same you will be labeled a misogynist.  It’s very much an Emperor’s New Clothes situation when it comes to female exhibitionism, both literally and figuratively.

    1. 6.1
      KK

      “But the truth is females flash and expose themselves at a much, much higher rate than males, and they do it for exactly the same reason that males do it.  They do it because they are getting a cheap sexual thrill from exposing themselves.  But we are not supposed to call it flashing or exhibitionism when females do it, we are only supposed to call it that when males do it.  It’s practically an American pastime to accuse males of being horny perverts, but if you accuse females of the same you will be labeled a misogynist”.

      James,

      The issue here is that women, from the time we’re preteen girls, get very mixed messages. Many of us are told by our parents, family, etc. that if we want to be respected we should dress modestly (among other things). Yet society rewards women (models, actresses) for dressing provocatively. We see them praised for flaunting their hot bodies. The same men who told us how to be treated respectfully, often break their necks to get a better look at the woman walking by in short shorts with her cleavage on display. When we’re in school, we see how our male peers flock to the girls who show off their assets. A lot of girls go through a phase of wanting to show off what they have. Some never do, and some never stop.

      If the vast majority of men really wanted the vast majority of women to go back to dressing more conservatively, they could make it happen. Quit watching porn. Don’t go to strip clubs. Don’t drool over scantily clad women on tv or in public. As long as women are rewarded (positive attention) for going around half naked, some women will be inclined to continue.

      1. 6.1.1
        Jeremy

        It’s a muddy issue, I agree.  But I think that what a woman “should” do regarding her choice of attire should depend on what she wants to be seen by others.

         

        Women have a great deal of power in their physical sexuality, far more than men, but with that power comes vulnerability.  As I wrote above, it is one thing to tell people (women and men) that women should be able to dress as they please.  It is quite another to try to tell people how they should FEEL about what they see.   They should definitely be told what to DO (and what not to do) regardless of how they feel, but that will not stop them from feeling a certain way and making certain assumptions.

         

        The advice I give my daughters about clothing (which they are free to ignore) is to dress according to the outcome you want.  If you want to look professional, dress professionally.  If you want to generate physical attraction (ie. feel sexy) among men or competition anxiety among women (ie. feel powerful), dress provocatively.  And if you don’t want to generate physical attraction or competition anxiety, avoid provocative clothing.  Remember that your clothing is a heuristic – a shortcut that people who look at you use to make assumptions about you (right or wrong), so use that fact to your advantage.  Don’t ignore it because you think the world “shouldn’t” be that way.

      2. 6.1.2
        Buck25

        KK, ,

        I get the mixed messages (and the sort of adolescent exhibitionism (that’s exactly what it is) that is its consequence. However, can you not acknowledge something of a difference, between that, and say, going commando in a miniskirt of a “don’t bend over” length (a la Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, et al)? I think there is one, and I think the latter (along with the super tight yoga pants with nothing underneath), are going a long way toward putting a damper on the mystique and intrigue that are an integral part of what makes a woman sexy (to most of us, with the exception of adolescent boys, and those “men” (term loosely used) who have not grown up sufficiently to get over their curiosity over what female mammary glands and a vulva look like). I just hate to see nudity, or something close to it, on a commonplace basis, become a rather poor substitute for what used to be the magic and intrigue that used to be such an integral part of women’s seductiveness of the kind I fondly remember, where something was left to a man’s imagination, right up to the denouement, if you will. Watch porn? Movies featuring full frontal nudity? Why? I’d honestly watch some of the older Hollywood stuff, some of which was considerably steamier, in its own way. Incidentally, I can see considerable advantage to women, as well as men, in some level of concealment, because, one more time, it allows the average woman with the not-quite-so-perfect body, the same opportunity to be (and one hopes, feel) as sexy, alluring and and provocative to a man as her more genetically-favored sisters. What’s wrong with that, for either gender? Most of us, of either sex, aren’t 9s and 10s; but the woman who’s a 5, with the right clothes, (lingerie included) can still seem like a 10, especially to the average guy, and especially if she knows when to reveal what, and how much. Call me an anachronism, but I just want a little of the feminine mystique back (I suspect a lot of other men do, as well).

        1. Tron Swanson

          Buck,

          I agree with you that overweight women shouldn’t wear tight clothing, but I strongly disagree about the general “women should dress more conservatively” idea. I think that attractive women should wear as  little as possible. Granted, this means that I’m not a “man” by your definition. Hopefully, I never will be…!

        2. Katie

          Buck says “…can you not acknowledge something of a difference, between that, and say, going commando in a miniskirt of a “don’t bend over” length …”

          “curiosity over what female mammary glands and a vulva look like). “

          If you were a woman you would know that mammaries actually behave  like champagne corks. Personally, I use a ziptie apparatus through my nipple rings to avoid this kind of wardrobe malfunction.

          I keep my vulva in check with galvanized panties which restricts the vulva from pushing up the skirt I’m wearing, as vulvas are known to do.

          Buck do you live in Papau, New Guinea?

        3. GoWiththeFlow

          Buck,

          I read your initial comment last night and thought, “Hmmmnn, I think I’ll come back to this to see how this develops. . . ought to be fun!”

          I DO get your’s, and other male commenters’ points about showing too much (camel toes and butt cleavage) and highlighting what a large proportion of society thinks is a figure flaw.  I see it too and silently shake my head.  Because like it or not humans are inherently judgmental beings and like to divide themselves and others up into categories, both positive and negative.  There is little that can be done to affect en masse changes in how women dress while some men continue to give the “offenders” positive attention.  Because, I can guarantee it, while a majority of men may be downright horrified, or as you say tossing their cookies in aisle #4, over an unfortunate choice of attire on a certain women, another man is telling her she’s the bomb.  One positive look or comment from a man is worth ten times as much as 100 cautionary or negative comments from other women.

          That’s one big reason why I won’t have this discussion with my sister.  I could try and lead with something more positive and tell her that covering up a little more will give her extra-sexy mystery. But when she goes out to a club and some guy tries to pick her up, because, duh, she’s signaling DTF, she won’t notice or care that 99 out of 100 guys there that night saw her and took a pass.  And she will tell me I’m the one who needs to get with it because it’s a sure fire way, in her experience, to get a man’s attention.

          So I think the only thing you can do is the same thing I do when I see a man in a speedo who, in my judgmental mind, shouldn’t be:  Turn the head and ignore.  Some guys are ruining it for you.  Kind of like how I feel that the women who hand out BJ’s like they’re hugs or kisses ruin things for me.  All you can do is when you meet a classy lady who knows how to work that sexy-mystery angle is let her know how much you and other men appreciate it.

        4. Buck25

          @ Tron Swanson,

          Perfectly all right, old chap. You may have whatever space I’d be occupying at the strip club, where the ladies’ attire to of the evening is more to your personal taste. I’d just rather have the option of not looking at that attire (or lack of it) all day, everyday, everywhere. I don’t personally care to waste too much time looking at used cars I’m not planning on at least test driving either. It’s a time management thing.

          @ Katie,

          Is THAT what you do “down under” to deal with the “champagne cork” thing? Interesting. Mechanically speaking, though, it has been my observation that vulvas do not ordinarily push up skirts of any length; at least not until they get wet, in which case they might cause a woman to bend over too far, and/or spread her legs, and if that happens, all bets are off regardless of skirt length. Aren’t those galvanized panties a bit,…ah, confining? I’d think those might get a little too hot or too cold as well, weather depending.

          Papua New Guinea? Funny you should ask. On my list of tropical paradises to visit (currently in 99th place, if memory serves). Anyway, right now my physical body resides in the American South (not to be confused with South America); at least, that’s where it was last time I looked. My mind is currently on vacation in Bumfuck, Egypt, however.

           

        5. KK

          “However, can you not acknowledge something of a difference, between that, and say, going commando in a miniskirt of a “don’t bend over” length (a la Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, et al)”?

          There’s absolutely a difference, Buck. There’s also a difference between what Hollywood starlets can get away with vs everyone else. That attitude of I’ll do whatever, dress however, act however I want… doesn’t affect them. For every potential suitor that might be repulsed by their attitude and ridiculous outfits, there are dozens more that would sell a kidney for the chance to go out with one of them because of WHO they are. I don’t think the rest of us could get away with that; not if we’re looking for someone of substance, anyway.

          That attitude really isn’t any different than the more extreme feminists. Of course anyone can dress as they please. However, like Jeremy so eloquently stated, your appearance might not be sending the message you want to send. It’s childish to insist that men should respect you NO MATTER WHAT while dressed like a street walker wearing a vagina hat.

          By the way, I agree with your assessment on how women should dress to be sexy, yet also classy.

        6. Tron Swanson

          Buck,

          I can’t say that I’ve ever been to a strip club. I get all the “show” I need when I’m out in the world and the weather is warm.

      3. 6.1.3
        James

        OK, but males are getting mixed messages as well.  The very same females who purposely dress so provocatively with the intent of attracting male attention will often turn around and claim they are actually just innocent babes in the woods who are being objectified by the very  same attention from males that in truth they so desperately desire.  So which is it, are females being rewarded by male attention or are they being objectified by it?

        1. Buck25

          James, I think that depends on which way they want it to be at the moment; Female minds are incredibly elastic, that way

        2. KK

          James,

          I was going to answer, but Buck beat me to it. Lol.

          Yes. It’s true, we change our minds. Sometimes we’re only dressing for ourselves. Sometimes we’re dressing to impress others. And sometimes, if we

        3. KK

          Oops!

          @James (part 2)

          We only want attention from specific men. We don’t usually mind light flirtation from someone we’re not interested in, but we only want the men we find desirable to engage us in conversation. We don’t want to be objectified by anyone. And that’s where our responsibility comes in. How we dress sends a clear message about what we think of ourselves and advertises it to the world; like it or not.

          To be fair, I understand how men can sometimes be confused by all that. But if you pay attention, most of us are pretty easy to read.

        4. Emily, the original

          KK,

          We only want attention from specific men.

          Yes, true, but that’s impossible to control. If you are an attractive woman, you cast a wide net, whether you want to or not.

        5. KK

          Emily,

          “KK, We only want attention from specific men.    Yes, true, but that’s impossible to control. If you are an attractive woman, you cast a wide net, whether you want to or not.”

          Yes, but some men (on here and in real life) seem to be very confused by our actions.

        6. Emily, the original

          KK,

          We don’t usually mind light flirtation from someone we’re not interested in, but we only want the men we find desirable to engage us in conversation.

          I don’t even mind conversation. What I find awkward is being asked out, face-to-face, by men I’m  not interested in.

           But if you pay attention, most of us are pretty easy to read.

          Agreed. If I want a man to push things forward, I will let him know. For the most part, I can tell when he’s putting the feelers out and looking for an opening. If he’s not sure how to read me, it’s because I’m being intentionally obtuse.

        7. Evan Marc Katz

          Emily: “What I find awkward is being asked out, face-to-face, by men I’m not interested in.”

          How does he know unless he asks?

        8. Stacy2

          If I want a man to push things forward, I will let him know. For the most part, I can tell when he’s putting the feelers out and looking for an opening. If he’s not sure how to read me, it’s because I’m being intentionally obtuse.

          But not all women are like that. Some (like me) don’t really give guys any openings. I think requiring a random dude to know whether you want him to ask you out or not by looking at your body language is like asking an average guy to perform Olympic level sports. Ain’t gonna happen. Unfortunately, and this has been my observation, it’s always the least desirable ones who have the most courage to ask you out face to face!! I have this weird personality in that I don’t really feel awkward – ever – so I just simply in a polite but firm way tell them no and move away. I don’t mind really.

        9. GoWiththeFlow

          Evan, James, et. al.,

          As a woman I want to put my 2 cents in here and say that I understand that being in the dating world means that I will sometimes receive attention and be asked out by men I’m not attracted to.  I’m not offended or put off at all and try to be respectful and gentle when I decline.  After all, if I am being honest here, there are more than a few men out there who have been on the receiving end of my unreciprocated attraction/affection.  It’s just life.  Most women get this.

        10. Emily, the original

          Stacy2,

          Unfortunately, and this has been my observation, it’s always the least desirable ones who have the most courage to ask you out face to face!!

          Sometimes, yes, this is true.  The last guy who was trying to chat me up … I could tell. If I’d been interested, I would have said … “Hey, what do you like to do for fun? We should (whatever said activity was) sometime.” He ended up having someone else approach me about dating him because (I’m guessing) he couldn’t read me. But I wasn’t trying to give him an opening.

        11. KK

          Emily,

          After reading what you and Stacy2 said, I had to laugh, because each of us respond / act differently in those situations. And that’s just the three of us… so, it’s easy to understand how James and other guys could easily get confused.

          A lot of men can’t distinguish between friendliness and flirtation.

          If I find a man attractive and he’s flirtatious, I’d never ask him what he likes to do for fun unless he has already asked me out. Stacy2 apparently doesn’t give anyone any openings. Not sure what this means, but I’m also not sure how any guy is supposed to ask her out. Lol. Typically, if a man finds you attractive enough to approach, he’s only going to ask you out if you’re receptive to whatever small talk or conversation he tries to engage you in.

        12. Emily, the original

          GoWiththeFlow,,

          After all, if I am being honest here, there are more than a few men out there who have been on the receiving end of my unreciprocated attraction/affection.

          I’m sure that I’ve not always been right about who was interested in me, but if I’m not getting much back, I don’t push the issue. If he’s polite and friendly but not giving out a sexual vibe, I back off. I attempt to read his energy toward me. Again, I’ve been wrong before, but as I’ve gotten older, I have gotten better at reading the signs.

        13. Chance

          Stacy2,

           

          “Unfortunately, and this has been my observation, it’s always the least desirable ones who have the most courage to ask you out face to face!!”

           

          It’s not about courage, it’s about the inclination.

        14. Chance

          Emily, I agree with Stacy2 on this.  Women don’t send signals in the same manner.  Granted, most women who are very interested will most likely not confuse a man, but it becomes a lot murkier when the woman is somewhat interested (or if she isn’t entirely sure).  In addition, men aren’t wired for covert communication in the way that women are so they often cannot pick up on what women think are obvious signals of interest or disinterest.

        15. Emily, the original

          Chance,

          In addition, men aren’t wired for covert communication in the way that women are so they often cannot pick up on what women think are obvious signals of interest or disinterest.

          Point blank asking him to do something with you isn’t obvious enough?

        16. Chance

          Come on, Emily.  You know damned well that most women don’t point-blank ask men on dates.  So, if she is asking him to go do something, that could mean anything to many guys.

        17. GoWiththeFlow

          Most of the times I ask a man to do something with me, I’m usually asking a coworker if he wants to get a bite to eat for lunch. No romantic intentions at all.

          It is impossible to always perfectly read someone’s body language are signals.  People do the best they can do.  No one is trying to make you feel uncomfortable or trying to put you on the spot when they ask you out on a date.  Can awkwardness occur?  Sure.  But the INTENT on the part of the asker is universally benign.  It’s a good thing to keep in mind.

        18. Emily, the original

          Chance,

          You know damned well that most women don’t point-blank ask men on dates.  So, if she is asking him to go do something, that could mean anything to many guys.

          But men often throw things out there to test the waters without specifically asking. Say they ask you if you like a certain kind of movie and you say, yes, I saw the latest Mission Impossible or whatever the hell it is. He might say, “You may have to see it again” or “I’d like to see it” and she says, “Yes, I’d see it again. When do you want to go?” How else can she make it any more obvious?

        19. DeeGee

          I have only ever gotten mixed messages from women. I am 55 now, and for decades when I was younger I would have women talk me up or be flirty, and when I would ask them out, their response would be “eww”, so I haven’t asked out any women in 10+ years. And I know that the responses that I will get to this is “you need to learn how to read women”, well maybe women need to learn to be honest and up front.

        20. James

          I think the point I was trying to make was that it’s as much about the failure to take ownership of the behavior as it is with the behavior itself.  If women enjoy getting their naughty pleasures and fulfilling their exhibitionist fantasies by prancing around half naked in public then I suppose they are free to act upon these urges.  As long as these women are meeting the letter of the indecent exposure laws (if not the spirit of the laws) then little can be done to stop them.  But they need to own up to this risqué behavior for what it is, and not insult everyone’s intelligence by claiming they are innocent, naïve babes in the woods who are being exploited by all the stares and attention that they get.

      4. 6.1.4
        SparklingEmerald

        Hi KK

        I used to dress more “provacatively” about 40 years and 40 pounds ago.  Partly because   I live in a very warm climate, and partly, well because I had a cute figure at the time.  But after awhile, the cat-calling even in only “moderately” provacative clothing  (longer lenghth shorts and a tank top for example, no cleavage or cheeks exposed) I started dressing way more conservatively, because I was tired of the street harassment.  I chalked up the harassement to my clothing and the rather sketchy neighborhood I lived in (couldn’t afford much more at the time)

        I went to a free outdoor concert with a girlfriend in the upscale part of town, wearing jeans and a camp shirt buttoned up to the top.  As we were making our way through the crowds, a hand pushed through, reaching for my top buttons and scolded me that “I needed to unbutton a few of those”.  I reached to push the hand away and tell him to keep his hands to himself, but he got swept away by the crowds.

        After that, I just started dressing however the heck I wanted.  At that point I really prefered a more covered up look (it’s actually better for sun protection), I tried to dress not to dowdy, not too “provacatively” but I found the street harassesment really had nothing to do with how I dressed, and that the cat-calling was more a reflection of the men doing the cat-calling than a reflection of what I was wearing.  They were usually fairly young, but occasionally an old “curmungeonly” type would say disgusting things to me as well.

        1. KK

          Hi SE,

          I don’t think I was ever a truly provocative dresser. I cheered in school, and our uniforms were amazingly skimpy. I remember feeling uncomfortable (objectified) at times with some of the comments from the other kids. Maybe that’s why.

    2. 6.2
      Stacy2

      You’re making zero sense. Men WANT to see women half naked, so women oblige. On the other hand women do NOT want to see men half naked, so this is enforced. There’s simply no demand on the female side to see your penises, chest and bellies, dudes, sorry. Zero value. And tell you what, the moment men begin to find strange women’s cleavage repulsive, we will all cover up, rest assured. LOL.

      1. 6.2.1
        Chance

        Stacy2, you’re pretty much supporting Buck25’s original point here.

        1. Stacy2

          I trust it that your sarcasm detector is not functioning. What was his original point – that only the people who he finds pleasing should be allowed to wear certain clothes? I don’t think so. I understand that any dialogue with a red piller is impossible, but even the most delusional must recognize the fact that men are able to bare a lot more of their body in public than women. Short of flushing their dicks, men can pretty much do whatever they want, and that includes walking around topless (which women can not), in leggings, in yoga pants, in speedos on the beach etc. Nobody is coming to arrest you for any of that.

        2. Stacy2

          P.S. And comparing “flashing” (i.e. actually exposing of one’s genitalia) to wearing tight/revealing clothes? Yeah we all get it, it’s the same exact thing *sarcasm off.

        3. Chance

          I’m referring to this comment:   “And tell you what, the moment men begin to find strange women’s cleavage repulsive, we will all cover up, rest assured. LOL.”

           

          I believe Buck25 was effectively asking women to consider hiding what men generally find repulsive.  While he wasn’t specifically referring to cleavage, of course, the same principle applies.

      2. 6.2.2
        Buck25

        I believe originally, my comment was addressed  to what we might term “camel toe”, and butt cheeks, rather than cleavage, but since you brought it up, let me just say that showing a bit of cleavage is sexy; letting your mammary glands hang out (often sans bra) until we see aureoles is definitely not. I find nothing especially titillating in seeing unsupported bare boobs “accidentally” falling out of an evening gown, either. There’s a difference, as James so well put it, between sexy, and rank, unadulterated exhibitionism. I think you already knew that, and I think you’re well aware those are two very different looks. Same for “swimsuits” that amount to less coverage than two pasties and a G-string. Look, I’m not suggesting Victorian prudery, which is the opposite extreme, but no, I do NOT want to see women in general half naked, all the damn time. I really don’t. Women in whom I have, or might have, the possibility of an intimate interest, are a somewhat different matter, but even there, I’d just as soon not see my wife or GF walking around the house topless (or bottomless, as the case may be) all day, every day. Takes a lot of the fun, not to mention the mystique, out of it that way.

        1. Anna3

          Gosh you are a prude – nudists actually say the naked body isn’t sexy it’s wearing certain clothing that causes reactions.

           

        2. Buck25

          @ Anna3,

          Gosh you are a prude – nudists actually say the naked body isn’t sexy’ it’s wearing certain clothing that causes reactions.

          Ummm, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make; that there’s not much difference between nudity, and “clothing” that leaves nothing to the imagination.

      3. 6.2.3
        ScottH

        Stacy- it’s hard sometimes to know when someone is being sarcastic in writing.

  7. 7
    Stacy

    A woman does not have to dress expensively to look expensive. As long as you are clean, well maintained, and wear something that fits your body, you are usually good to go.  I am far from a brand whore but get compliments of many, many of my clothing choices.  I am also a fan of…if you have a little cleavage out, make sure everything else is covered up – or, everything does not have to be shown/exposed to show that ‘you’ve got it’ – in other words, you don’t have to dress like a prude to still be sexy.

    I am a size 4 to 6 in clothes but have boobs and a little booty action going on – and although I can probably get away with a lot because of my body type, I find myself getting the most compliments when things just fit well although I am usually covered up a bit – something that fits well is half the battle. Today I have a floor length dress on that is fitted at the waist and people were stopping me asking me where I got it – no cleavage, no legs showing. The dress itself was only like, 25 bucks.

  8. 8
    Stacy2

    I gotta say I used to subscribe to this whole idea of “dress to hide your flaws” – because – again – of the cultural upbringing, but i don’t anymore. I think this message is damaging in many ways. Essentially, it is saying that unless your body adheres to some strict proportions, it is not good enough to be seen as is and needs to be “hidden”, “corrected” etc. Just in case you’re wondering, there’s really no limit to where one can take this. I am size 4 and lean, and recently had a (well meaning) female relative volunteer her “pointers” about how i could’ve hidden my figure “flaws” even better at a public appearance (again, cultural issues… ) I had to tell her to take the advice to somebody who’d be interested in listening… This is total bullshit. It is one thing to discuss fashion, style, situational appropriateness of curtain clothes, etc.  but it is a completely different conversation to make it about what clothes somebody should or should not wear based on what their body looks like.. it’s good old body shaming an misogyny masquerading as an “well intended” advice. GTFO, nobody is buying your bullshit “concerns”.

    Men should especially shut-up about this whole issue, that’s my feeling because there’s absolutely no way for any guy to voice an opinion on this and not sound like a misogynist, a pig or a moron. You all have preferences and we get it and you’re entitled to your preferences. But unless I am on a date with you personally, you can safely assume that my wardrobe choices are not guided by my desire to impress you or your approval. I couldn’t care less about what you think or whether you’re impressed. That’s the bottomline, that’s the reality and men just need to deal with it.

    Buck25:

    That’s becoming a lost art with a lot of today’s women, from a man’s point of view

    Agh… yeah the man’s point of view.. because this is what we should be living our lives by, what would men think about it? … But you do realize that not everything women do is about you (men), right? It is almost like a collective temper tantrum, OMG these women are not trying to please me by dressing in a certain way! What’s happening here? The world is coming to an end! Right. Yeah, dudes, get over it.

    1. 8.1
      Tron Swanson

      “I couldn’t care less about what you think or whether you’re impressed. That’s the bottomline, that’s the reality and men just need to deal with it.”

      The same thing applies to women, though. Like Buck, I’d rather not see overweight women in super-tight clothing, and I don’t really care what you think. You just need to deal with it.

    2. 8.2
      sandra

      I am surprised none of the men have brought up the old ” and why don’t airlines hire only young and pretty stewardesses like they used to.”  I’m waiting for that one from one of the older men here who is nostalgic for the ” good old days” of air travel.

      1. 8.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Sandra,

        I am surprised none of the men have brought up the old ” and why don’t airlines hire only young and pretty stewardesses like they used to.”

        We can flip it around and say that people of a certain age shouldn’t be hired by the airlines. That we women want a young, cute steward to look at and that an older one offends our delicate sensibilities.

      2. 8.2.2
        Tron Swanson

        I don’t travel by air very often, so I’m glad to hear that I’m not missing out on much…

      3. 8.2.3
        Buck25

        Well Sandra, I’m one of the older guys here, and I guess you’re gonna have to wait a little longer, cause the only things I really miss about the “good old days ” of air travel are that the seating was roomier, and the food and beverage service better than currently offered. At least it was the few times I flew civilian back then, and that much was more than I was used to. Most of my flying in those times was in military aircraft, and we didn’t have any “stewardesses” (attractive or otherwise) on those, (or much of anything else, either)

        1. sandra

          You’ll need to start getting out more!  Just bring your own food!!

    3. 8.3
      Buck25

      Awww, Stacy2 , you were doing pretty good until that last comment. Not everything you do is about us? What a shock, considering that everything we do (not to mention everything we think or say) is supposed to be about you, right? I mean, if I’m not trying to objectify you, swindle you, screw you (literally or figuratively) impose a glass ceiling on you, belittle you, insult you, or just annoy the hell out of you, what would I be doing? Matter of fact, if I’m doing all that, what else could an old misogynistic, red pill pig like me possibly have any time left over to do? You know what I think? I think that if you ever, even once, accidentally, did something that a man might actually derive any pleasure from, you would feel that once again, you got cheated by men, somehow. That seems to be a consistent meme with you

  9. 9
    Marika

    Here’s one for you, Buck:

    You’re not the only one who’s noticed the overuse of ‘activewear’ outside the gym/yoga studio….hehe.

    If you can’t understand the Aussie accent, happy to translate 😉

    Adrian,

    Re your recent comments, if it makes you feel any better, I happily text or call men between dates, don’t feel particularly comfortable with a man paying beyond, at most, one or two dates (and even then I at least offer to pay and/or will try to buy them a drink or something), I am flattered if a man offers to drive to my house and pick me up, will offer to drive them to their car after a date if I parked closer, I’ve never Google stalked a date or asked for their last name before meting them, and the only reason I ‘make’ men ‘wait’ for sex is that I know I can’t handle sex without commitment & exclusivity. It’s not about them, it’s about me.

    Most of my friends are similar. One is slightly more wary as she’s had two recent issues with verbally abusive men, so she wouldn’t get in the car with them, but she doesn’t treat all men like potential abusers.

    The most vocal/angry/hurt/axe-to-grind people don’t represent us all 🙂

    1. 9.1
      Malika

      Marika,

      I love the activewear video! Now i now what yoga pants people are on about in the opposite thread. They are rather garish. As much as i normally don’t agree with the patronizing tone Buck uses in his comments, i must agree they leave precious little to the imagination and are maybe not the most seductive outerwear of choice.

      Adrian,

      I don’t know whether you’ll read this but i agree wholeheartedly with Marika’s comments. I also love it when a man shows effort and gallantry, i do not need to stalk them instead of getting to know them organically and i wait for sex with men i am attracted to because i want there to be a bit of substance to our interactions before becoming physical. There have been a few instances while dating whereby i ran into some real a-holes, but they do not represent the whole of mankind. Just like if you dated a few entitled and embittered divas, that doesn’t translate to the whole of womankind.

    2. 9.2
      Buck25

      Marika,

      LMAO! And yes, I understand an Aussie accent just fine; some of your Australian guys fought alongside us in Vietnam. Didn’t understand some of the Aussie slang, but really good guys and damn fine soldiers, those men in the slouch hats and Light Green; proud to serve alongside them, anytime, anywhere!

      1. 9.2.1
        Marika

        Glad you enjoyed it, Buck and thanks for the comments re Aussie soldiers! We certainly do enjoy our slang…and, as you can see, are not a nation known for taking ourselves too seriously.

        Given some of your recent comments on various posts, I think you’d appreciate the other Skit Box videos on YouTube. They parody a lot of those assumptions & stereotypes about women that you love so much 😉

  10. 10
    Carol Pengra

    I liked it. Thank you 😉

  11. 11
    sarah

    whew…never thought someone trying to instill fashion SENSE  with a positive outcome would garner such a sludge of comments.  Too much to do about nothing.

    It is as simple as you choose make it….the next time you go to the store, bank, pharmacy, restaurant, etc., dress like you will meet the next phase of your life, the next wonderful job, the next best friend, the next new lover,  the next great  dream in your life….be ready, you will feel better, look better and attract better, or not.   That should say it all.

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