Does Your Boyfriend Have to Think You’re the Most Beautiful Woman He’s Ever Seen?

does your boyfriend have to think you're the most beautiful woman he's ever seen

Sure, you want to feel desired, wanted, and safe. But is it reasonable to expect that your boyfriend finds you more attractive than every other woman on Earth? Find out why it’s not a sign of relationship weakness if your man thinks other women are hot; it can actually be a sign of relationship strength.

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  1. 1

    I’ll be interested to hear this, after all the traffic that post got (from the woman who felt offended by her boyfriend not thinking she was as hot as Angelina Jolie and other celebrities).   I once got into a fight with an ex, basically for not telling him he was hotter than Gerard Butler.   While watching “300”, he was saying how Gerard Butler was in such incredible shape.   I replied by agreeing that yes, Gerard Butler sure did look good–and then he really got on my case about it.

    I never quite figured out how I got myself into such hot water for just agreeing with what he said.   I tried to tell him that hey, I found him attractive too–but that still wasn’t good enough.   I guess he wanted me to say that oh no, Gerard Butler has nothing on him.

    Thankfully, that’s water under the bridge and now I’m with a guy who doesn’t require me to find him hotter than male celebrities.   After going through that, I wouldn’t require my guy to find me more beautiful than every other woman on the planet.   It’s personally enough for me that even with all the other attractive people out there, we still choose to commit to each other.

    1. 1.1


      I too remember the hot-as-Angelina post.   At the time I thought that she asked her boyfriend a stupid question and he gave her a dumb answer.   I would never have asked that question, because I know 99.5% of famous actors and models are hotter than me, because that’s what they’re paid to be

      I grew up with a certifiably gorgeous older sister.   Seriously, it was annoying the way friends would come over to the house and go on and on about how pretty my big-sis was. Even as very young children, adult visitors would favor her over me or our  brother.   I grew up never being the most beautiful girl in the room, so I don’t ever expect to be.   I’m better than average, a 7 to my sister’s 9.5-10, but I was a late bloomer and never learned to rely on looks to get me anywhere in life.   That has been a good thing.   I got an education and learned how to be a really good friend, two things my sister never did.

      Our brother said that he would have never married a woman like our sister.   She is selfish and demanding and has a sense of entitlement a mile wide.   He said he never understood how our now ex-BIL put up with her.   Marrying the beauty came at a very big cost to him.   Both my brother and I never wished to have a child as beautiful as sis because we want our kids to be nice people and not ultimately sabotage their lives, because after the looks fade, people aren’t willing to put up with the crazy.

      So yeah, I want to be seen as attractive, but what makes me happy is having loving relationships with my family and friends.   Those last much longer than looks do.

      1. 1.1.1

        Yup, play stupid games, win stupid prizes! 😉

        1. Christne

          Joe, thanks for giving me a good laugh!   🙂 (but it’s also very true)

      2. 1.1.2

        Very well said.   I know someone just like your older sister, who is also “certifiably gorgeous”–in fact, she’s done modeling.   Luckily she doesn’t have that nasty entitlement streak and is a nice person.   But to be honest, she’s also not the most interesting or ambitious person either (one of my male friends once said he gets bored talking to her within five minutes). Being that beautiful hasn’t led to a stable relationship for her.   I will happily take my stable relationship over her tumultuous one, even without being a “10”.

        In a way, I can’t blame people like her and your sister.   When you get so many rewards for your looks, it can be difficult to find incentive to develop other qualities.

        I used to envy those “10s” but now actually feel bad for them.   I imagine that aging and losing their looks will be more difficult for them, after relying so heavily on those looks to get by in life.   I found it interesting when I read Paulina Porizkova’s piece about being an aging former supermodel.   It actually made me glad not to be a former “10”, missing her stunning beauty and the horde of male attention she used to get.   You can’t miss what you never had!

        Or heck, look at Angelina Jolie herself.   This is, what, her third marriage?   Her exes really could have called her the most beautiful woman in the world (especially back then, when she was younger and even more beautiful).   That didn’t stop her getting divorced!   Even actually being Angelina Jolie doesn’t guarantee a stable relationship!

        1. Joe

          You know, when I read that Paulina Porizkova piece awhile back, I thought to myself, “She’s still gorgeous, for her age.

          Nobody is as hot as they were in their 20s-30s (unless they’d already let themselves go back then).

        2. Christine

          I know what you mean Joe.   I think she knows that too, that she looks “good for her age” and is still well above average.

          I guess after being a “10”, it’s difficult to move down the scale to an “8”–even though that “8” is still pretty darn good!   But, since it’s still a “demotion” down from the “10”, it might not feel so great.   It’s like getting the gold medal at one Olympics, then getting the silver at your next one (silver is still great but, won’t feel as good after you experienced being at the top of the podium)

        3. GoWithTheFlow


          Someday I’m going to write a book on the whole dynamic between my sister and I.   She is a slow moving train wreck at this point, though we don’t know when the exact crash will happen.   She is intelligent, but never did anything with it.   My sister had a full tuition scholarship to the nearby  state college.   She never applied for it (would never have crossed her mind too).   A teacher nominated her for it.   I recently told  my ex-BIL  how sad it was that she dropped out after one quarter.   This was during the time they first started dating.   It was news to him!   He never even knew about it.   Apparently instead of going to class, she was hanging out with him.

          She is very charming, and is  out there dating, but as my brother said, she acts like she’s still a hot 21 year old, except she’s not.   And she has an obvious agenda:   Take care of me.   So  while she’s met a lot of men (no job, it’s all she does) nothing remotely serious in the relationship department has happened.   She is the old person (like the old guy Chris Rock does a spiel on) hanging out at the nightclub with people 15-20 years younger than her.

          I wonder what it is like to have it all:   Be the 10 who is kind, intelligent, and accomplished.   Can’t deny it, being very beautiful is some powerful stuff, but with out being a decent human being, it might not get you far!


          When I was in my 20’s more than one man said I looked like Paulina’s sister.   I was always extremely flattered where I heard it.   Of course it was when I was dressed to the nines, with hair and makeup professional done for a special event.   No one ever told me that when I was in biology class dressed in jeans and sneakers.   There’s a huge illusion/presentation contribution to what we consider beauty.   Good to know you still think Paulina’s hot.   I may have a chance yet 😉

        4. Christine

          I would read that book.   Seriously.   I’m getting oddly curious about her now! I just find it sad when anyone keeps clinging to the past so desperately.   Sorry but come on, we all need to grow up some time and accept where we are now, not cling to what we used to be.



        5. Caroline

          @Go with the flow and Christine-enjoyed your remarks. I have 3 older sisters (1bro). One prettier than the next. So I had no delusions of being something that I’m not. I must give credit to my parents for instilling the importance of being a well rounded person. All have careers, family , good friends because they view themselves as a whole whose value increases by the experiences and people in their lives.

          I thought it rather sad reading many comments on this blog because it appears many have wrapped their self worth up in either their lack of or perceived attractiveness.

          Even with my continual reinforcement of values; my youngest son (18yo) is experiencing the reality of relying too heavily on looks and charm. Continuously voted “most handsome, most popular, etc in high school and being a star athlete he gleaned way too many unearned privileges and advances. His teachers gave him way too many chances to pull his grades up which of course he never took seriously. He’s being tested dearly now by the harsh realities of the real world. My greatest hope is that his high school days don’t prove to be his “peak”.

        6. Christine

          Caroline, thanks, glad you enjoy reading our comments!   Well, I think (and hope) your son will develop other qualities out of necessity, as he moves to ponds bigger than high school and is no longer the “big fish”.   When he sees that he’s no longer able to skate by as easily as he used to, hopefully that will motivate him to work harder.



  2. 2

    I was a late bloomer too while my older sister (petite, blonde, etc.) got the attention.   I was the tall, gawky ugly duckling who had to develop a personality (class clown as a senior in high school) which has served me well ever since whereas she, nearly 60 years old and who has let herself completely go, forever mourns her “glory days.”   Since I didn’t have any glory days, I consider the here and now MY glory days.

    As for the post itself, no, I don’t expect my man to think I’m the hottest woman on the planet, just the best one for him.   BTW, he and I both have a crush on Sandra Bullock.

    1. 2.1

      Wow, that makes me so sad for your sister.   I would hate to constantly look backwards on the “glory days”.   That makes me picture Norma Desmond from Sunset Boulevard getting “ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille” (but I sure hope she isn’t that bad!   No one should be that delusional)

      Same here, it’s enough for me and my guy to just be perfect for each other–without being objectively “perfect” compared to everyone else.



      1. 2.1.1

        SMC & Christine,

        I didn’t attend the last high school reunion because the people who RSVP’d were the cool kids.   I was solidly in the nerd group.   At the previous reunion all those cool kids talked about was how great it was back in the day.   The other regular ole attendees showed off pictures of their kids, and talked about where they went to grad school, and what they are doing now.   Some have become quite successful, and most were very happy.

        I would not go back to high school for anything.   I wouldn’t go back to my 20s either.   My life has so much more meaning now and I’m comfortable in my own skin and enjoying myself.

    2. 2.2
      Haters gonna hate

      Not all attractive women are shallow, stupid, and entitled. Stop hating.

      1. 2.2.1

        None of these women said all attractive women are shallow, stupid, and entitled, they spoke about specific people they knew.

      2. 2.2.2

        I don’t believe anyone here said all beautiful women were shallow, stupid and entitled. Enough real life examples (think Amal Clooney) to disabuse them of that notion. The point these people are making is that beautiful women who never looked to improve or develop themselves beyond their beauty are the ones suffering the most in their “old” age.

        1. Hel

          Amal Clooney, isn’t it funny how we judge someone for being a great person for the fact they have a high paying job and not who they are and how they contribute to the happiness and wellbeing of others and themselves, Never understood that, 80 percent of CEOs are narccasists and so is Hollywood, there biggest trait is lack of Empathy, but people say what a great person?? Why because there wealthy. He’s a doctor wow!! When these people are mostly emotionally unavailable after all if your career is everything believe me your family is suffering, there’s always an imbalance, whatever you focus on the most wins and for these people it’s looks and jobs to acquire people to adore them because that’s what they truly crave. Xxx

  3. 3


    Thanks for the podcast.   I’m now a subscriber–my first ever podcast subscription!

    One thing that wasn’t discussed was how much fun a couple can have with their celebrity and non-celeb crushes.   I had a boyfriend who always took me to every Matt Dillon movie on opening weekend.   And, back in VCR days, I stood in line at Blockbuster video to get a newly release movie that had his favorite Hollywood beauty in it.   In college one friend, K, had a boyfriend (they later married) who had a crush on one of our other friends, M.   Whenever there was a party, K would walk her boyfriend over to M so he could “get his M fix.”   It was a good natured joke between them, and M’s boyfriend was amused too.

    Talking about attraction to other people, especially when you can add some fun into it, is a way of getting it in the open and defusing any tension.   It might just make sure that the attraction isn’t acted uponas well.

  4. 4
    Karl R

    What amazed me about he original blog post was the number of women who agreed with the letter writer.


    I’m just glad I never dated anyone that vain, delusional, shallow or insecure.


    The most (physically) attractive woman I ever dated?   I didn’t ask her out a second time.   I ended up wishing I had scheduled a shorter first date.   I felt that being alone was preferable to being with that woman.

    So I didn’t “settle” when I started dating my wife (instead of the more attractive woman).   I upgraded.


    I find my wife attractive, cute, sexy.   I compliment her appearance frequently.   If someone else compliments her appearance (in my presence), I let her know.   It makes her feel good about herself, which is to my benefit.

    But that’s very different from having to lie to her.   Or having to believe she’s the most beautiful woman in the world (or the most beautiful woman I have dated).

    1. 4.1


      On the original hot-as-Angelina post, I saw all of the comments from women who agreed with the OP and I decided to sit out commenting.   There are some things people won’t ever change their minds about.   The OP’s question and her reaction to the boyfriend’s answer seemed to come from  a deep well of insecurity and maybe envy.   It will take a lot of internal work to heal that.

    2. 4.2

      Karl R,

      You came back to this blog a post or two after Evan’s recent post on Height.


      That post got hijacked by a “wanting to be the prettiest woman in their boyfriends eyes debate. I can not remember the woman’s name, but her main argument was wanting to feel desired. Reflecting on that post and on the actual one about the boyfriend saying his girlfriend wasn’t as hot as the celebrity,


      I now think most of the women who commented were not vain, delusional, or shallow, but just insecure.

      1. 4.2.1

        I broke up with a boyfriend because he didn’t think I was beautiful or ever compliment my appearance, not once. I don’t need comparisons to supermodels and actresses but if you don’t think your woman is beautiful, why on earth are you with her?

        1. Adrian


          Did you talk to your boyfriend about that? If you talked to him and then he still did not compliment you, I agree with your actions.


          Did he actually say, he did not think you were beautiful?


          Most men would not date a woman who he did not find attractive, have sex with you, Yes, but date you long term, No.


          This blog turned me onto a book called The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman (you don’t have to read the book to take the test online). In the book you find that different people communicate differently in regards to love, and therefore, different people wants different signs that their partner loves them. For me, words of affirmation (compliments about my looks, skills, or character) rank very low.


          But I do agree with you that even for a person like me who doesn’t really care about being complimented on my looks, it would be nice to hear it at least “Once!”

        2. Michelle

          Adrian, at first I didn’t think about it because I’ve always assumed that a man doesn’t date a woman he doesn’t find attractive so he must think so right? But when I realized that in almost a year he never complimented me or anything I said to him, you never tell me I’m beautiful, you don’t think I am do you? He said nothing. After that, no amount of groveling could make up for that.

          I don’t think it was a matter of different love languages. He either felt he was settling and was waiting for something better, or he wanted me to feel insecure so I wouldn’t break up with him.

          Im with someone now who not only tells me all the time he thinks I’m beautiful but hes also  happy for my successes.

          men if you don’t appreciate your woman, someone else will be more than happy to. And vice versa (I always tell him he’s sexy, smart, I’m proud of him).

        3. AY

          Look, an ex boyfriend never complimented me on my looks either, but you know what, I never cared because beautiful women were hitting on him all the time and he never gave them a second look. Then I had a friend whose boyfriend told her all the time how beautiful she was, but kept cheating on her with other beautiful women. Which scenario would you prefer ?

        4. GoWithThe Flow


          Why should those two be the only options?   A man who never compliments you but does not cheat vs. a man who compliments you a lot but cheats.   If a man is with a woman he says he cares for and loves, why wouldn’t he sincerely compliment her every now and then while also being faithful?   That’s not too much to expect. Same goes for men.   Their girlfriend or wife should both compliment him and be faithful to him.   It’s telling someone you appreciate them and love them in both words and actions.   Words and actions, both matter.

      2. 4.2.2

        The women who Evan is quoting was not on the Angelina Jolie post, and if you actually read all her comments, you see that she was obviously hurt in the past by someone, maybe even told that she was ugly by a guy or guys she loved and trusted. Maybe teased in school for being unattractive.


        In the postcast, we can hear Evan’s voice, so his replies sounded calm, logical, diplomatic, while showing empathy. However, in his comments to her they seemed abrupt and pragmatic. NOT rude, or mean, just apathetic toward her insecurity…


        Though to be fair to Evan, she was not sounding logical either, she was operating off of pure, raw, fragile emotions.


        I have met people like this, both men and women, people who were teased as children, felt like outsiders, and raised by parents who were too busy or they themselves just didn’t know who to show love, which caused these children to grow up feeling lonely.


        Once that lonely child grew old enough to date, after years of watching romance movies and reading romantic books, that person longed for someone to make them feel special, desired for once above all, and loved completely, though they were far from perfect.


        Evan put it best when he said in the podcast, “It is all code for make me feel safe and chosen.”

        1. Emily


          “Most men would not date a woman who he did not find attractive, have sex with you, Yes, but date you long term, No.”

          Is that true for men? At one point, I decided I should be dating a nice guy who was consistent instead of the guy who I was wildly attracted to but drove me crazy with indecision. Men never do that?

        2. Adrian


          I think you have to find balance. You need someone who makes you feel desired, loved, and special, but you also have to make sure that guy is attractive enough for YOU to also desire.

          I have personally seen men date and even marry women whom I did not personally think were attractive, but in each case, the man did care for the woman and the relationship.


          Of course I am no expert, nor am I able to talk to all men about this, but from what I have observed, dating long term or marrying the nice person who you have “Zero” physical attraction for, seems to be something I have only seen women do… and miserably regret.


          I have seen men chase overweight, or very unattractive women simply for sex and end up falling in love in the end. I have seen attractive women do the same. I think the only difference is the reason behind it.


          Men do it thinking it will lead to easy sex. Because stereotypically those types of women have low self-esteems, and are subtly shunned by society. So any romantic attention or hint at being desired by the opposite sex will lower their defenses (that is the theory anyway, I am not saying I believe it).


          Attractive women giving chances to, or falling for overweight, and ugly men is more associated with timing in my opinion. If she is burnt out on dating really handsome and successful, but shallow men, or if the unattractive nice guy found someway to make her laugh and feel good when she was single and feeling lonely or dejected. These are the only times I have seen women give overweight or unattractive guys a chance.


          Women do it according to where she is in her life, men do it for sex. But both are cases of extremes, most people fall in middle when it comes to looks.


          As Karmic Equation once said, it is okay to be with someone who is unsure about their attraction to you, because that means that they have not decided that they find you unattractive or attractive, you just have to put in the work. The distance between a 5 in looks and a 7 in looks really only seems far on paper.


          Looks are only a piece, not the whole puzzle. Character, values, goals, and morals are only pieces, not the whole puzzle. Try to find someone who has all pieces when focusing on finding a long-term partner.

        3. Michelle

          “As Karmic Equation once said, it is okay to be with someone who is unsure about their attraction to you, because that means that they have not decided that they find you unattractive or attractive, you just have to put in the work. The distance between a 5 in looks and a 7 in looks really only seems far on paper.”

          No offense to you Adrian cause you seem like a smart guy, but I find that belief incredibly naive. You can’t make someone be attracted to you. You even said yourself men don’t seriously date women they aren’t attracted to, so I don’t think you really believe that either.

        4. Adrian


          No offense taken.


          I paraphrased Karmic Equations quote, also it was contextual. Basically, the debate was about women having it easier in dating because men have to do all the approaching, asking, planning, paying, and general courting, while women just sit back, receive, and evaluate in the beginning (not my words, I am summarizing).


          I believe then someone stated that average and even “slightly” below average women and not just hot women will still get plenty of dates, because it is men who have to do all the approaching, but average looking guys suffer in the dating world..


          I believe the core of the debate was that a man could take a women on 3 dates before she would tell him that she was not into him and many of the guy felt this was just women manipulating them for free attention, or because they were bored, women just used men until they find someone hotter.


          Unfortunately, I can not remember the exact post this was from, so I am going off of memory.


          Anyway, many of the other female commenters said that if they said yes to a guy asking them out, it was not to use them, and if by date 2 or 3, they felt no physical attraction for him then it was because they honestly didn’t know if they were attracted him or not, so they need time to engage him and see. Of course guys called B.S on this.


          That is when Karmic Equation stated that looks do matter to women regardless of the myth by men and even many women that the female gender doesn’t care about looks. If a guy is a 5 he shouldn’t chase women 8 and above.


          That got even more hostility and push back from guys who felt that what she said was Bull*, women who are 5s go after guys who are 7s, and most believe that they are 7s themselves. That is when it was revealed that most guys with options will sleep with women who they don’t find attractive unlike most women.


          A guy who is a 9 will sleep with a woman who is a 5, though it is rare that he would actually date her. However, a woman who is a 9 will rarely sleep with a guy who is a 5. So women who are 5s honestly believe they can date a 9, because that 9 told her everything she wanted to hear to sleep with her, she believed it ended because he was a jerk, not because he didn’t really want her. Whereas most guys who are 5s know they can’t date a 9 or even a 7, because they never got that same type of attention from a 9.


          One group is bitter (some men), one group is somewhat delusional (some women).This led to more back and forth with that male and female commenters, then someone finally said,

          “but only the hottest guys have it easy, almost all women have it easy in dating.”


          That is when Karmic Equation said, “hot guys do have it easier and guys who women just see as unattractive can’t become attractive in a woman’s eyes, no matter how much courting he does. But any guy who she is not sure about has a chance. Even if she ultimately said no after the first date, he still got further than the guys who women find completely unattractive. So don’t be discouraged that she isn’t lusting after you like she would the hot male model, the fact that she said yes to one or more dates meant that you at least had a shot of dating her; at least she did not find you so unattractive that she did not give you a chance.”


          In another post, it was revealed commenters (I believe by Emily, Karmic Equation, and Tom10), that men have a 1-10 number scale for rating women, were giving a woman a lower numbers did not mean that he would not still try to pseudo court her for access to sex, he just wouldn’t want anything long term like he would with a woman with a higher rating.


          Whereas women had more of a yes or no/ hot or not/ attractive or unattractive scale. A guy a woman found attractive, she would give a chance to him to gain a relationship and sex with her, whereas a guy she found unattractive had no chance at all. But unlike men, if a woman was not sure if she was attracted to a guy or not, it meant that he at the very least had a chance to be placed in the woman’s yes or no category.

          Michelle, that is the long answer, the short answer is, yes you are right. “Most” guys don’t do that. I should have said women in my original post.


          But I do believe Evan’s moto, “men look for sex and find love”, I have seen men fall in love with women that I would consider unattractive, he found something attractive about her.

        5. Michelle

          Adrian thank you for the thoughtful response.

          I would like to kill this rumor once and for all that all women have it easy in dating.

          Overweight women do not have it easy. Friends of mine who are overweight have told me about the vile things that have been messaged to them from “no fat chicks!” to being called ugly cows, whales. How many men do you know have received this treatment? I’ve witnessed it in person when men make rude comments or let a door slam in their faces but then turn around and act curteous and nice to the prettier woman.

          Women  of color do not have it easy, especially black women. A good friend of mine is a beautiful black woman who is smart, well spoken, educated, funny, and kind but she has a very hard time dating and she says many of her black female friends in similar circumstances, she talks about how so many black women have given up online dating because so many men, including black men!!!, say point blank in their profiles they do not date black women. my Asian friends are tired of being fetishized by creepy casucasian men! Many of them say they seem to attract men looking for women they can control or act out preverse fantasies.

          I won’t even get into women of a cettain age and what get said and done to them.

          I believe that men who complain about women having it easier are comparing themselves to a small percentage of stereotypically desirable women that all men are chasing. They message any beautiful blond women 22-25 that they can find, and then when they they get no response they claim it’s proof that men have it harder.

          I think men generally have a much harder time viewing themselves objectively because society has always taught men that they are superior to women so many come to believe that their flaws should not be as limiting. How many men believe their looks don’t matter while criticizing the appearance of every woman they see?

          That said I do think that mature men and women who aren’t caught up in appearances are able to embrace their own opinions about what they are attracted to without shame. I take issue with the idea that one guys 10 is every guys 10. Many men lust over Giselle but I’ve heard several men say she has rather masculine features and they don’t find her that attractive. There are men who would kill to be with Christina Hendricks while others call her fat.

          I think the men you talk about who pursued sex with women they weren’t attracted to but then developed feelings for them were more likely attracted to them from the beginning but too worried about appearances and maybe could not admit it to themselves.

          i don’t think women are different. We know what we are attracted to. We may give it longer not because we are trying find out if we find them attractive (we already know) but because we are often evaluating them for different characteristics than “he has a hot body and I want to sleep with him.” I don’t mean to stereotype all men or speak for all women so I will just say this is my opinion and leave it there.

          All of this is related to my original point because beauty is subjective, So expecting the man you are dating to find you beautiful is not unreasonable. The whole idea that anyone can be the most beautiful though is pretty silly as is comparing yourself to others. I’m happy to have a man who thinks I’m beautiful and I don’t need to be prettier than anyone else!

  5. 5

    I have to put in for the people who agree with the letter writer. The original letter writer said something like “I think I’m as hot as Angelina!” and the boyfriend let loose with “Well, she’s really hot and you’re just OK.” (Or something, I’m paraphrasing).

    I know a lot of people think it’s vain and shallow to care, but personally it’s really, really important to me to feel desired in a relationship. I have plenty of FRIENDS who are platonic who can think I’m a “meh” on the looks scale–a partner needs to see me differently (and I need to see him differently).

    It makes a huge difference to my libido and how confident I feel in bed to know that my partner thinks I’m hot stuff. Celebrities aside (and come ON, every single woman on the planet knows where she is on the charming POA ten-point scale), if any boyfriend I had described me as “just OK,” whether he was comparing me to someone else or not–no bueno. It would kill it for me.

    I exercise, take care of myself, and look great as far as I’m concerned. There are plenty of men who will find me VERY attractive and not feel the need to compare. I’m holding out for one of those.


    1. 5.1


      I think anyone would be offended if the person they were dating and loved said they were just “ok” looking, most research says that women need to feel desired.


      In my opinion, Evan is just using that example to show a larger point, that none of us should want to be the “Most” beautiful, he is not saying that we should not want to be seen as beautiful in our partner’s eyes.


      You should read the book I mentioned called The Little Prince. It is a quick read, only took me about 15 minutes and I am a really slow reader. The relationship with the Prince and the rose is what reminds me of your comment, and the lesson the fox gave the Prince about beauty and love in the 21st chapter.


      Personally, I would take the moderately attractive girl with a good heart that made me feel special, over the sexy goddess of pure lust, if the hot woman did not have a good heart or know how to make me feel special also in return.

      1. 5.1.1

        I have read the Little Prince several times; I was trying to learn French so I’ve actually read it in French and English 🙂

        I guess the point for me is that I don’t want to BE the moderately attractive girl with the good heart to the guy I’m in love with. I  want him to feel like he LUCKED OUT with me. I want to walk down the stairs in a great outfit and take his breath away. I want him genuinely not to be able to keep his hands off me–not because I’m the sweet, nice choice, but because I am that sexy to him.

        And conversely, I don’t want to date the moderately attractive guy who treats me well. I’ve tried that and it doesn’t work for me. I need to feel hugely attracted to and excited by the man I’m with, both on a physical and intellectual level. To me, that’s what being in love IS.

        That’s not to say that I want to be a massively difficult princess who feels entitled to act like a jerk because I’m good-looking either; not at all. Nor do I want a “bad boy” who treats me badly but who I’m attracted to. I want it all–an extremely high level of physical attraction AND someone who treats me well. I want that for me, and I want to deliver that as well.

        Some people may not feel that chemistry and attraction are that important, or feel like it shouldn’t be because chasing it results in bad relationships. I think whatever you value in relationships is fine as long as you are with someone who values the same things. I also understand that you always have to settle for something in a serious relationship and that nobody’s perfect.

        But I value both in relationships, and if I found out that I was massively attracted to the man I was with and saw him as SUCH an amazing catch and to him I was the “moderately attractive girl with a good heart,” just…ugh. That strikes me as so sad.

        1. Adrian


          I was not saying that a person should look for a moderately attractive person, nor do I think all very attractive people are shallow or bad partners.


          I just meant that you should be okay with your boyfriend feeling that his attraction for you is based off of more than “just” looks. So yes, he finds the hot model at the party more “physically” attractive than you, but he would not hesitate for a second if asked who would he choose.


          Mya, I think you are having a hard time believing that is possible, because maybe you can not do it yourself.


          Perhaps someone you once trusted with your heart made you feel unsafe, undesired, and ultimately unloved because you were not as young or attractive as another woman.


          Either way, I am sure you will one day find a guy who makes you feel special enough to not worry.

        2. Karl R

          Mya said:

          “I want it all—an extremely high level of physical attraction AND someone who treats me well.”

          “I want to walk down the stairs in a great outfit and take his breath away.”

          I want it all, too.

          I want a job that pays 50% more than the one I have, requires 25% fewer hours, provides an extra 2 weeks of vacation, great benefits; a job that’s fun, where the boss thinks I’m extremely qualified and believes that my work is exceptional.


          Notice, I didn’t actually say I was going to be any more qualified for that job than my current job, or that my work was going to be any better.   So the burden of believing that is placed on my boss.

          So not only does your boyfriend have to be a great guy, and amazing looking, he has to think you’re irresistibly attractive as well.   Not just attractive.   Irresistibly so.

          Just one additional requirement you require, and one that’s not a requirement for a great relationship.


          Mya said:

          “I want him to feel like he LUCKED OUT with me.”

          I notice that he’s only supposed to feel like he lucked out because of the way you look.   Some of us prefer to feel like we lucked out with other traits.

          When I roll over after terrific sex, I feel like I lucked out with my wife.   When I see other couples get into fights because they let every little thing get under their skin, I feel like I lucked out with my wife.   Every time someone compliments me on how sweet a person my wife is, I feel like I lucked out.


          I lucked out with my wife.   And I don’t have to find her the most attractive woman in the world in order to feel that way.


          Mya said:

          “I want him genuinely not to be able to keep his hands off me”

          For this one, you’re in luck.

          Just date any Mr. Gropey McFeelsALot with poor impulse control.   He genuinely won’t be able to keep his hands off you.

          Better yet, he will be more available due to that trait.


          He won’t be able to keep his hands off of you at weddings, at funerals, at his mother’s house, at your mothers house, at your company Christmas party, when you’re babysitting your nieces and nephews….

          Oh … let me guess.   You want that particular trait to come with an off switch.   You only want it when it’s convenient.

          It doesn’t work that way. (click here for a more detailed discussion)

        3. Joe

          Sounds to me like Mya is chasing the chemistry high.

      2. 5.1.2

        Is what you look for in a lover different than what you look for in a marriage/long-term partner? I was reading somewhere that lovers release the inhibited part of a person’s life but a spouse provides the opposite need. That person should be stable and a mother or father candidate.

        1. Adrian


          I think most people look for both qualities in a partner.


          Though I have always heard women say something that sounded so odd to me. They would say, that they will have sex sooner with hot, sexy guy, but knew they didn’t want to date him long term, but they would make the attractive good guy they saw as a long term partner wait months before they had sex with him.


          It always sounded like they were rewarding one and punishing  the other, forcing him to jump through hoops; since both men clearly want sex, but the good guy has to wait???

        2. Emily


          I don’t know think such a divide exists between hot and sexy and attractive and good. There is only the man I am interested in and the man I am not.   If I am into someone, I want to go to bed with him.

          But that’s me. I generally don’t say yes to a date with a man I don’t feel any attraction for to “give him a chance.” That may be to my detriment.

          Men can’t have it both ways. They can’t complain that women don’t give them a chance but then complain if a woman is unsure about him and continues to date him. I have heard from a lot of friends and women on other dating blogs that they will give a guy a chance who they feeling nothing for in the beginning if he is displaying no alarming red flags.

      3. 5.1.3

        Actually looked the old post up because I was curious. He said she was “good looking” and “pretty” while he described Angelina as “hot” and “beautiful”.   Please note also, they were past the infatuation stage. They were a year in.

    2. 5.2


      The OP’s response was dumb.   Every male beyond the age of 8 has to know that females want to be seen as, and told, they’re beautiful.   Boys learn this when they tell their moms they’re beautiful and the moms light up and say “Why thank you baby!   You’re the best!” And they get a big hug.

      I’m not saying the OP’s BF should have lied to her and agreed that she was hotter than Angelina, but he could have said something that gave her the validation that he found her attractive.      Something along the lines of,   “Aw baby in the movies it’s all an illusion.   What you see isn’t real. I think you’re beautiful and you’re real.”

      1. 5.2.1

        Well said.   One time, me and my guy saw this Victoria’s Secret commercial that came on.   I said man, what I would give to have a body like that!   My guy told me that hey, I’m “hot” in my own way, and I loved that.   No, I didn’t need for him to tell me that I’m as hot or hotter than one of those models (I’m not that delusional!).   But, he still made me feel special and that’s enough for me.

    3. 5.3

      Actually- both genders get it wrong on the point scale. Most people tend to actually fee l they are 7s when they’re in reality 5s. Now of course this is purely physical- I would think once you factored in a good personality they’d be 7s. Unfortunately, lots of folks lack in the personality department:(

      1. 5.3.1

        Mya & Caroline,

        Speaking of overestimating ourselves, it’s important to have people who love you, but will give you honest feedback, not fluff it up because they don’t want to hurt your feelings.   I think that a lot of honest but negative feedback comes from people who are poor messengers.   They are either people with a bone to pick, or the critical comments are delivered during an argument, or it’s done in front of other people and embarrasses the recipient.

        The thing is, you need to ask for the truth and be willing to not punish your loved one when you hear something you don’t like.   I was fortunate that I had an aunt and a brother who would/will do that for me.   My aunt would just come out and say, “Your behind looks huge in that outfit.   I hope you still have the receipt, take it back to the store. Why don’t you wear the blue dress?   That looks good on you.”   In the years I lived with her, I never left the house looking anything less than the best I could be that day.   Now my brother has told me everything from “Denim skirts look bad on women. . .” (when I was wearing one) to ” That guy is out of your league, don’t even bother.   That guy there. . . he’s your league.”   And trust me, I wasn’t real thrilled by what he considered “in my league.”

        1. Caroline

          @Go with the flow-I agree, it’s important to be able to depend on someone who will give you the truth. Fibbing just keeps you in a negative place/not improving. One of my sister’s hubby is a CEO. They have a stylist who changes everything from his glasses, hair, to shoes. I’d love that. I actually used to sell women’s clothing on the weekend (took a leave of absence in Dec). I adored putting outfits together/ or just tweaks to their look. We had a huge following of women going back into the dating scene (40s-50s). So many of them were wearing clothing either outdated or for their former body type. Jeans shopping can be as agonizing as bathing suit shopping! Luckily I never had to tell them to outright quit wearing something like your aunt-funny! It was pretty easy to get them to try a different silhouette while they were already trying on their choices. It was very rewarding to help another woman improve her body confidence and leaving for their date feeling great about herself.







        2. Adrian


          I was just re-reading the post about the personal trainer boyfriend and I am curious of your opinion.


          I acknowledge his feelings (something most people will not do), and admit he has EVERY right to be with someone who he finds sexually attractive, and though he was saying all those hard things to motivate her;


          After reading the thing about the T-shirt during sex, wearing the bathing suit, and even the cookie,


          Now I am starting to think that maybe some lies are okay to tell your partner, what do you think?


          Is 100% honesty always good? If not how do you know what to and what not to be honest about?

        3. GoWithThe Flow


          The thing with the the personal trainer boyfriend who asked his GF to wear a t-shirt during sex because he found her body objectionable was very strange.   Usually our boyfriends and husbands can’t wait to get all our clothes off of us!   It sounds like the boyfriend has a big issue with understanding what real women’s bodies look like.   He seems to have expectations that no mere mortal would ever meet.   Not to mention he is asshole level insensitive! I hope that OP dumped him.   I’m sure there are several men out there who would think they’d died and gone to heaven when she had her t-shirt off during sex!

          As far as telling white lies, sometimes it is the best thing to do. For instance if your wife asks you how she looks while other people are in earshot.   If it’s something really bad, like her skirt is tucked up into her pantyhose in the back or she’s trailing toilet paper on her shoe, by all means let her know, LOL!   But if it’s just she’s wearing a hairstyle that’s not your favorite, maybe up in a bun when you prefer it down, but she’s entirely presentable, then tell her she looks fine.   Now if she asks you how you prefer her hair to be worn, make sure you acknowledge it when she does it.   Positive reinforcement and all that 😉

          Instead of a “white lie” a better tactic may be to sidestep and use humor.   The hot-as-Angelina boyfriend would have been wise to say something like, “Sweetheart, I think your beautiful, and I love that you would never want us to wear vials of each others blood as necklaces, like Angie and Billy Bob did.”   He would have met her need to be seen as attractive to him, while also telling her there are qualities about her that make her a better GF/wife than said gorgeous beauty icon.   In this case she’s not bat-shit crazy 😉

          Now swimsuits are a minefield of body insecurities for women.   Even beautiful women.   If a woman asks you how she looks in a swimsuit, she wants to know if she looks her best for her, as she is at the moment.   Most of us know we are not SI swimsuit edition material, but we know some styles are more flattering than others.   Luckily for you, most women won’t ask a man for his opinion on how a swimsuit looks on her unless they’ve been together for a very long time.

        4. Tina

          Then Adrian he needs to find somebody else he’s sexually attracted to. I don’t acknowledge the feelings of a person who wants something else than what they have and takes that out the person they are with. they are not married. There is no reason he can’t break up with her and find someone else whose body he will want to look at . It’s his problem and it’s abusive.

      2. 5.3.2


        I agree with you, but I also agree with Mya!


        Maybe I am confusing myself! (^_^)


        I agree with you that both genders overestimate their sexual market value (though I would add both gender also underestimate them as well), but I also agree with Mya, that most people have a general sense of where they are on the scale.


        But that is why as I told Michelle, that in my opinion, a 5 and a 7 only seems like a large gap in looks on paper.


        In my opinion love really does change a person’s value in our eyes. When you fall in love with someone they can go from a 6 to a 9 easly. The interesting thing to me about that is, once their overall sexual market value rises after you fall in love, you still see yourself the same (or maybe that’s just me).

        1. Caroline

          Adrian-I agree it’s confusing!   I was citing the UCLA /SoCal study I think? It was pretty interesting. It stated a group of like 18-70 year olds -the majority thought they were a 6-7. In the under 30 crowd-28-30% thought they were an 8-10!   I just had to laugh at the human ego- how comical! And yes, we are all vain but that’s downright funny. It also stated that 93% of folks thought they were better drivers than the average-pretty telling.

          On the idea that most of us know our “point” on the attractiveness scale. My theory (and call bs if you want)-I think it may have more to do with the research done that says humans innately are attracted to those who look like our primary caregivers when we were young (mom and dad). That’s why so many couples look alike. I tend to pick tall slender men like my dad but I also genetically resemble him. In other words, we pick someone similarily attractive.

          i did want to mention one thing to Mya- I get it that your idea of love is this entering a room and your man is mesmerized by your beauty. Everyone needs to feel desired. But that’s the Disney fairy tale. Cinderella? Princess whoever. That’s just the infatuation stage. And you’re right! It’s great stuff! But that’s not all to romantic love. I hope you can experience the deep connection which comes after that high wears off:)

        2. Adrian


          Did you read about the study that said that 80 to 90% of people feel that they are not average or like “everyone else”?


          If that many people are not average, then that begs the question, are the average people the minority and what exactly is average?


          Everyone thinks they are special and different, or above others, just look at the comments on this site. How many times have you read someone state, they aren’t the typical this or that? Or don’t count their comment because they don’t think like the average man or woman.

          …    …    …

          I always assumed that what attracted us to our parents was their style or examples of love not their physical traits (sorry Dr Freud).


          For example, thought porn would have us think differently, I believe that the majority of people are disgusted by the thought of dating or touching a parent in any kind of sexual way.


          I would love to find a supportive woman who is loyal, kind, successful, and takes care of herself physically “like” my mom. And I want to be wise, strong, kind, and successful, and respected by others “like” my dad.

          …    …    …

          I honestly have no idea why some couples look alike. (o_O)


        3. Caroline

          @Adrian-of course folks are turned off by the idea of touching etc their o parents. I’m stating   your parents are the first people you love. You identify with their looks. Babies search their mothers face. The family unit is your first source of love and acceptance. I’d think it odd if you didn’t identify with people of similar looks. But also thank goodness for the brain over riding this at times to ensure genetic diversity.

        4. Caroline

          I’m always astounded how quickly something can degrade to sensationalized sexual taboo. It’s like we’re a nation of Jerry Springer fans even though there’s an overwhelming amount of familial love in front of our noses. The physiological and intellectual love that bonds a mother to her child is inexplicably overwhelming. A dad who is reduced to a blubbering fool at his child’s first music/dance recital, (my ex’s) excitement calling me when our son hit his first home run, or a father’s emotions when he gives his daughter away at the altar. Oedipal romps are rare. Hypothesized as the parent never bonding with the child. A child relinquishing their “freedom” during the terrible twos. Maybe it’s something parents are more attuned to? (It’s my wish for anyone who wants a child to experience this inexplicable love and if you don’t I get that too-they are truly a lifetime commitment )

        5. Karl R

          Adrian and Caroline,

          I have some ideas about the “everyone thinks they’re above average” tendency.


          1. Nobody is perfectly average in all areas.   While someone may be near average in several traits, they will almost certainly be above average in some ways and below average in others. (i.e. I’m above average intellect, below average in upper-body power-lifting, above average as a dancer, below average as a cook.)

          2. As individuals, we don’t value  each trait equally.   I don’t look at my strength and intellect and see them balancing each other out.   I value intellect far more than strength, so my intellect places me well above average, and my lack of brute strength barely  budges the needle downward.

          3. The relative values we place on traits is subjective.   An Olympic weightlifter would feel the opposite as me (regarding the relative importance of strength and intelligence).   Both of us could probably provide reasons why our subjective valuing is superior to the other person’s.

          4. We tend to inflate the value of the traits we possess in abundance, while minimizing the value of traits we lack.   We seek out jobs and hobbies that play to our strengths, which reinforces these biases.   Because of this, we end up surrounded by people who share our subjective views (my coworkers all think intelligence is important too), additionally reinforcing these biases.


          Regarding physical attractiveness:

          Standards of beauty aren’t entirely uniform.   Even when there are some strong tendencies (like 80% of people preferring more symmetrical faces), there are significant outliers (like the 20% of people who preferred less symmetrical faces).

          So if you asked 100 women to rate my looks on a 1 to 10 scale, even if the average was a 5, there would be a broad scattering in the 3 to 7 range, with a few even going above and below those numbers.

          I don’t solicit women’s opinions on my looks.   If I get someone’s opinion, it’s unsolicited.   And since I’m no longer a teenager, my peers are no longer going out of their way to inform me that I’m unattractive.   If I’m receiving an unsolicited opinion, it’s from someone who thinks I’m at least a 6.   The people who think I’m near the top end of the scale occasionally voice their opinion; the people who think I’m near the bottom remain silent.   That biases my perceived attractiveness.

          Even though I’m consciously aware of this, the subjective bias I discussed above still applies.   Whose opinion matters more — the women who believe I’m attractive, or the women who believe I’m unattractive?

          The opinions that matter most are the ones from the women I date … who all believe I’m attractive, or even super-sexy.   The people who matter think I look gooood.


          For the majority of people, they unconsciously perform the same subjective skewing  that I do.   They’re just not aware of it.   So they can say they’re a 6 or 7, and have evidence indicating that it’s actually the case.


          Caroline said:

          “In the under 30 crowd-28-30% thought they were an 8-10!”

          Well, if we assume that 10% of the population is a 1, 10% is a 2, 10% is a 3, etc., then adding up the 8s, 9s and 10s would be 30%.

          Unless the survey specified how the 1-10 scores  were supposed to tie to percentiles, that result may actually represent a reasonable interpretation of the question.

        6. Caroline

          @Karl- thAnks for shedding your thoughtful light on the matter. You’re absolutely right, I took the incredulous tone in the stated findings as matter of fact when expressing the overconfidence of the under 30 crowd. The article did not in fact show math.

          I also liked your take on how we skew our “number” by of course only taking the positive results we tend to hear.

          I do wonder though, if people are only provided with still photos to rate attractiveness (not allowing body language, voice, etc) would there be a more distinct consensus of attractiveness? And I’m guessing you might have to take out the low and high ratings?

          I will say one thing. Ladies and men shouldn’t judge themselves too harshly. You will find someone who finds you attractive. I’ve been feeling quite unattractive due to weight gain. I’ve lost all the weight I gained due to a thyroid problem. But the medical charts and old pictures don’t lie. I’m still overweight. I’m determined to become healthy. Well, I went out with a girlfriend this last weekend and one of her guy friends tagged along. He absolutely pestered me for days asking me out even though I told him I have been dating the same guy for years. It gave this chubby old chick a much needed ego boost to achieve her goal:)


        7. SMC

          Karl and Caroline,

          Simply put, it is always a pleasure reading your comments.   Well thought out, well spoken,   measured and very articulate.

        8. Karl R

          Caroline asked:

          “I do wonder though, if people are only provided with still photos to rate attractiveness (not allowing body language, voice, etc) would there be a more distinct consensus of attractiveness?”

          I don’t know of any comparison between still photos and live experience.

          However, OKCupid had users rate the still photos of other users.   When they crunched the numbers, there was less consensus than you would expect.   Certain people had more consensus than others.   Furthermore, a lack of consensus was beneficial for women.   (I don’t believe they’ve published  a similar analysis for men, though I would love to see those results … especially because it may work differently for men.)


          Caroline said:

          “I also liked your take on how we skew our ‘number’ by of course only taking the positive results we tend to hear.”

          Even more than our attractiveness, we skew our perceived age the same way.

          Not everyone tells me  that I  look younger than 46.   Some people do.   Everyone else keeps their opinion to themselves   (And some of the people who severely underestimate my age are really bad at guessing ages.)


          Caroline said:

          “I will say one thing. Ladies and men shouldn’t judge themselves too harshly.”


          Of course, my agreement may sound a little odd coming on the tail end of my ruthless analysis of how people (including me) self-perceive age and beauty.


          But I don’t need every woman to find me desirable.   I can’t date (or marry) that many women.   I needed a dating pool’s worth of women to find me attractive.


          Caroline said (to Mya):

          “I get it that your idea of love is this entering a room and your man is mesmerized by your beauty. Everyone needs to feel desired. But that’s the Disney fairy tale.”

          I thought that expectation came from romance novels, not Disney.

          But otherwise, you’re correct.   It’s infatuation.   It’s temporary.   It’s not a measure of love (or relationship success).   Even if she happens to be the most attractive woman in the world, that impact will wear off as her boyfriend gets accustomed to it.   Her only recourse would be to have a series of boyfriends for as long as her looks hold out.

          Or she could get a more realistic expectation.

        9. Caroline

          Karl- the Disney phenomenon is a real thing in my eyes. Older   Disney movies are of course based on fairytales and novels. The movies are beautifully done and many kids sit in front of them on a basically continuous loop (Frozen anyone?). While I’ve never seen Frozen ; I believe the princesses were much more empowered. The older ones like Cinderella unfortunately teach   SOME young girls that if only you dressed up in fancy clothes crashing the high class ball Prince charming will be awestruck by your beauty and you will live happily ever after. He fell in love after just one dance. I dunno, I don’t really have a problem with the movies it’s that parents feed it to their kids constantly. They use them to quiet them down so they can make dinner, to calm them and relax before bed, they even watch them in their cars. I can’t remember the Dr.’s name but they also thought that the preoccupation teen girls have with the Kardashians sends the same message. They have a “fabulous” life because their mom married well twice and they’re “beautiful”. Looks are definitely valued way too much. It’s made me pause quite a few times in here how arrogant some of the younger ladies talk about their looks. But hey, everyone on the internet is rich and beautiful right?


        10. Caroline

          SMC- you are very kind-thank you:)

        11. Christine

          Caroline, I know what you mean about the older Disney movies.   In the case of Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, they didn’t even need to be conscious most of the time, for the Prince to fall in love LOL!   All they had to do was lie there and look beautiful, before the Prince kissed them and whisked them off for their happily ever after.   I think in Sleeping Beauty, the Prince at least heard her voice before in the forest–but neither story exactly had an extensive “getting to know you” phase!

          In fact, that’s what I liked about “Ever After”, the re-imagining of the “Cinderella” story–they actually spent time together and got to know one another before falling in love. You might like that one, if you haven’t seen it already.

          I grew up on those Disney movies too and loved them (well, except for the moment when Bambi’s mother got shot!)   Luckily, I’ve matured since then and realized that that isn’t how love is in the real world.   🙂 Karl is right that men will eventually grow accustomed to a woman’s looks and the appeal wears off eventually–so there needs to be more there to sustain interest.

    4. 5.4

      Hit the nail on the head. It seems very few people feel the same way. It has made me feel like I’m crazy. I’m not. Great not to feel alone. Valuing physical attraction does not mean I’m shallow. I cared for my ill parents, setting myself aside. I would do the same for my partner. Seems obvious to me. It is deeply unfair to consider people like me or Mya shallow.

    5. 5.5

      I agree 100% with Mya. Referring to the other post, I think Angelina and other women in the world are more beautiful than I am. I do not mind that reality. However, I also want to feel as if my partner thinks he lucked out with me. I don’t want him to compare me and I would never in a million years ask for a comparison with another woman. I do want him to provide that feeling that he can’t imagine being with anyone better. I provide that to the men I am with and expect the same in return.

      I am attractive and have had many men tell me I’m gorgeous and I’m the best looking woman they’ve met or dated. However, beauty is subjective and I know I’m just normal attractive to some and gorgeous to others, but it’s a nice feeling when your partner makes you feel so special. I recently broke up with a man who constantly talked about other women being beautiful or gorgeous. He had called me beautiful but not gorgeous, and he definitely complimented other women more than me. It does not affect my self-perception but I did not want to be with someone who did not appreciate me when others will. I also did not want to be with someone who repeatedly had to talk about other women’s beauty. I do not mind if he finds other women beautiful. I do not mind if he uses beautiful as a description of a woman. I do mind a grown man that I’m dating focusing on the looks of other women so often and complimenting them to me in a manner he doesn’t do to me. It made me feel like he wasn’t attracted to me enough and that’s ok, but I don’t want that in a relationship and it’s not insecure or needy to want to feel a certain way. I think I’m very secure.

      I think women overall need to have higher standards for men so men become more thoughtful overall. If no one tolerates men who are not appreciative of their partners then those men will eventually have to change or be single. I like this website but sometimes it surprises me how often women are just expected to tolerate men’s bad behaviors. Men also should not tolerate women’s bad behaviors but I believe women overall are more considerate. Women are expected to excuse too much in order to not look insecure.

  6. 6
    Karl S

    Karl R said:

    What amazed me about he original blog post was the number of women who agreed with the letter writer.
    Quite a few people seemed to support the letter writer on the grounds that a partner should make them feel like the most attractive person in the world. We all spent a lot of time nitpicking over the differences between objectively knowing something versus making your partner feel something.

    However, I think there’s something to be said for the thought behind a choice of words when a person says they need their partner to make them feel the most of anything.   Is it insufficient to simply let your partner know that you are physically attractive to them, rather than being more attractive than anyone they’ve ever met or seen? The funny thing is, by taking it to that level, suddenly you invoke comparisons to other people, when apparently that’s something we shouldn’t be doing (as argued in the separate but not unrelated topic of physcial-looks-on-a-number-scale).

    1. 6.1

      I think anytime you REQUIRE somebody else’s validation to feel worthy you are standing on shaky ground.

      1. 6.1.1

        some people just like to be complimented and more importantly appreciated once in a while.

        Have you ever had a boss that never said anything g positive or appreciative even though you worked your butt off and produced? How long did you stay in that job?

        1. Caroline

          @Michelle-absolutely! Everyone wants and needs compliments. Everyone needs to feel appreciated. But I don’t think it would be honest nor productive for a boss to tell you that you were the BEST in your business if you really weren’t. In fact, it might take away some of your drive to be the best.

    2. 6.2

      I definitely do not understand why an adult’s ego would be so fragile that knowing someone thinks you are very pretty/handsome wasn’t sufficient. If a man tells me I’m very pretty or beautiful, I can’t imagine any scenario where I’d need to ask him “but am I hotter than Naomi Campbell/Halle Berry/Nia Long”. For why? Anyone dating you finds you attractive. And no matter how hot you think you might be, why do you need to think/be told that you are the best looking thing that he/she has ever seen (which is unlikely to be true in a world of 7 billion people and a lot of access to millions of images).

      I remember this post and thought it was a stupid and immature question then, and still think the same.

    3. 6.3
      GoWithThe Flow

      Psychology professor Marta Meena at UNLV has done research that shows that for women, being desired by a man will prompt her desire for sex.   Women desire to be desired and want to be wanted.   It’s important to keep that in mind when discussing whether a woman wanting to be told she is attractive and beautiful by her partner is a reasonable thing.   Certainly a man can find a way to make his wife or girlfriend feel attractive and desired.   If he doesn’t, he may be essentially short circuiting his own sex life!   And really, if he doesn’t find her attractive, why is he with her?

      Instead of looking at I-need-to-feel-like-the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-world at face value, consider it as the woman expressing her need to feel attractive to and desired by her man.   Sure, the way this need is presented may been annoying or over the top, but focus on the underlying need that is being expressed.

      The magnitude of her statement may be inversely proportional to how her partner currently makes her feel.   It could be that a woman who is never complimented, never gets an appreciative smile from her man when she walks in a room all dressed up, could be the one demanding to be seen as the most beautiful woman in the world because she feels completely undesired and like her partner is just masturbating with a body because any female form will do.

      And for Christ’s sake, ban such statements like, “Well, I’m with you, aren’t I?” from your conversations.

      1. 6.3.1

        YES…but this is a lost cause at this point. This has been debated ad nauseum here and most of the regulars refuse to see her side. “She’s annyoing, she’s unreasonable” — to a point, yes, but anyone who says “but just consider that she may be feeling this way because”…is curtly dismissed as unreasonable female who doesn’t understand men and “thinks they are women with dicks.” Meanwhile you must offer  sympathy and tears for all men  who complain about everything under the sun when it comes to women and “try to see their side.” Ya got that??

        1. GoWithThe Flow


          LOL!   I’m shamelessly trying to appeal to men’s desire to get laid more often and more enthusiastically!   Men and women have to make an effort to understand each other and meet in the middle.

          If a woman can accept and understand that in a committed relationships her man is going to want sex more often than she does, and that it’s in her best interests to try and meet his needs when she can.   Then the man needs to understand that his best interests are ultimately being served when he gives his woman the attention and affirmation she needs to be responsive to his advances.   Everybody wins!

        2. misty

          go with the flow and whatevs: our sense of what’s normal is pretty warped these days. I’m sitting here at 4 am watching “classic” videos (just dated myself) b/c I can’t sleep. The  women who were music video eye candy 20,30 years ago now would be considered just above average or even average. Not b/c they are not naturally attractive, b/c it was before every woman on the other side of a camera lens had to be fully body sculpted with mcguyver makeup and hair extensions down to her butt. Anyone who says that media doesn’t influence what we find attractive and how we react to it is in serious denial. At some point no woman or man can compete with an illusion. Op is probably quite attractive and it’s ironic because she’s pushing the men she dates to prioritize her beauty which is inevitably going to fade and then where will she be? On EMKs blog complaining that men are shallow and why do they overlook her for younger prettier women LOL!

  7. 7

    For christmas I went home to visit my parents and while in my old room, I found among the many books that were read to me as a child, the book titled The Little Prince.


    Read chapter 21 about when he meets the fox and the lesson it teaches him when he goes back to look at the field of roses roses.


    I won’t provide any spoilers. (^_^)

    …    …    …

    The other side of this argument,


    I remember once dating a girl who would brag all the time about how SEXY a certain male celebrity was. At first it didn’t bother me, but as my “love” for her grow, the intensity of her bragging about this guys sexiness started to get to me.


    She would be so excited and animated when she would go on and on about how incredibly sexy he was. When I say on and on, I only mean about 10 minutes, but it felt like hours, and she would only bring him up maybe 5 times a month. I now think that if she would have showed the same level of enthusiasm about me as she did about about the hollywood honk, I would not have been so bothered. Her compliments to me about my looks were polite, but they lacked the intensity and lust that she gave when she would say how Gorgeous this celebrity was, while I was just cute.


    I was not sure of her “level” of attraction for me, I was sure of her “high” level of attraction for the celebrity.


    To me that is the core of the problem with the commenters who had issues in all the post about not being told they are the sexist person in their boyfriends or girlfriends eyes, they were in unsecured relationships. When you are with someone whom you know without doubt loves you and sexually desires you, then I would surmise that hearing that person say this model or that celebrity is the most beautiful person they ever seen probably wouldn’t affect you.

    Of course I would also surmise that a person who did love and desire you would also have the tact to not howl at the moon in their lust for someone else either. How you say things really DO matter!

  8. 8

    Most of my reaction to this discussion is just emotionally uninvolved.   I know I’m an average-looking woman, so any man who claimed I was the most beautiful woman in the world would be obviously lying.   My former husband really is the sexiest man I have ever seen, but I know he thought that was a playful exaggeration on my part.

    I was surprised by the woman who posted that she broke up with a man who never told her she was beautiful.   I think my husband told me that once about 12 years into the relationship; and my current boyfriend referred to me in the third person as pretty once – other than that I don’t recall any boyfriends complimenting my looks.   No insults – that would be a deal-breaker – but I’m pretty sure every guy I’ve dated had the option of dating more model-esque women.

    That’s why Evan’s comment that you might be the hottest woman he could get caught me off guard.   I think _that_ claim actually would make me feel insecure.   Doesn’t it imply that if he could have someone hotter he wouldn’t choose me?   I really don’t want to be the consolation prize.

    My boyfriend does not have the most beautiful face I’ve ever seen or the most cut body; he is probably not the richest man I could land, or the funniest or most charming.   He does max out the possibilities for intelligence, kindness and consistency.   The point is I don’t want to waste my life continually looking for opportunities to “trade up.”   I’ve found a man who turns me on, is fun to be with, and treats me like gold, and I like being able to relax into that, even if I could “do better” by some measure of physical beauty.   I just assume it’s the same for him.

    1. 8.1

      ”  The point is I don’t want to waste my life continually looking for opportunities to “trade up.” ” Words of wisdom Rebecca! I agree it’s important to know when’s the right time to stop looking around and thinking about getting someone “better”.

  9. 9

    I have three things to say about this.

    1. Angelina Jolie is not that special. I have been dating someone who deals with celebrities a lot. One night we were having dinner at a restaurant and he pointed out a woman 2 tables over and told me that was AJ, having dinner with some female friends. I would have never believed it was her, but my date really knows celebs and so I had to believe it. She looked so average that you wouldn’t even think about her twice. It’s all an illusion created on screen and in magazines.

    2. It’s not important whether your b/f actually thinks you’re the most beautiful woman he’s ever seen, what he says on the subject  and how he does it is what matters. A romantic relationship is not a corporate  performance evaluation where objective feedback has any value. He may not think you’re most beautiful, but he better keep this to himself and find ways to compliment you and make you feel special. Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

    3. If a guy actually tells his g/f that she is not that beautiful or compares her negatively to other women, any sort of anti-compliment, I would advise that woman to seriously consider dumping him while she still  can. Few people are that clueless, but a lot of abusers start that way, by slowly devaluing their partners and chipping away from their self-esteem until there’s nothing left. Then they convince their victims that they’re worthless, that the abuse is the only one who’d put up with them and gain full control. Bad times will be had, and I would treat such statements as major red flags.





    1. 9.1


      1). I actually knew of a few men and women who have seen celebrities in person without their professional makeup and photoshop crew, and all have told me the same thing you said.


      Though sites like the celebrities without makeup still has so many people doubting it validity.  I have personally seen women without makeup who will put 99% of celebrities to shame in the looks department.


      Nevertheless, do you think it is weird that we never hear such things about male celebrities? I have never heard anyone say Zac Efron or Chris Hemsworth looks so ordinary in person, I wonder why?


      2). You are coming dangerously close to saying you want your boyfriend to lie to you… and make sure YOU don’t know he is lying.


      And yes, I know he could honestly think you are more beautiful than the celebrity, but the point is that you will NEVER know because you always want his opinions on such questions to place you as the “most” beautiful, sexy, caring, etc in his eyes.


      3). You honestly believe that a man who tells his girlfriend that she is beautiful, just not on the same level as a some supermodel… is only a step away from an emotional abuser?! Though she is the one who asked him?!

      …    …    …

      Stacy, you are adding things to the original post that was not there. The boyfriend never “intentionally” tried to make his girlfriend feel inferior, but you would advise her to consider dumping him.


      Evan has countless post where the boyfriend has tried to make his woman feel inferior with his words and Evan has always told the women to dump him. Remember the post with the personal trainer? I disagreed with Evan and all the commenters, I did not think the guy was intentionally abusive, but the woman did, so I agreed that she should dump him, not because he was abusive, but because this was something that she felt was abusive.


      No human should be in a relationship were they feel unhappy, but will you admit that sometimes it is not always the perceived offenders fault?

      1. 9.1.1

        After re-reading the fitness post, I will admit that the fitness trainer boyfriend may have been too honest, which led to him sounding cruel at times (his comments about the T-shirt and bathing suit are cringe worthy), so may have have been wrong to use that example.


        I know so many male and female personal trainers, that hearing them want a person with a flat stomach is nothing new, I think that post like with this post Evan speaks of, both guys are young, and didn’t know how to say things in a way that was honest without making their partner feel inferior.

        1. GoWithThe Flow

          The fitness trainer boyfriend is an ass. he has unrealistic expectations of what a normal, healthy woman’s body should look like.   It’s not that he’s making her feel inferior, he’s flat out saying she’s unattractive.

          He is too rigid and unforgiving in his expectations to be LTR or marriage material.   How would this guy react when his wife is pregnant?   Would he say her belly disgusts him?   What about when she is six weeks post-birth?   Is he going to accuse her of being lazy and not trying to get back in shape if she isn’t swimsuit model perfect?   How about if she needs a mastectomy for great cancer?

          This is equivalent to a woman demanding that a man make a million $ a year.   If he “only” pulls in $998,000, then he’s lazy and better get his butt in gear, or else!


  10. 10

    1. I would say the same about some male celebrities. I have seen De Niro in person quite a few times and think he looks much much worse than on screen, for example.


    2. I don’t think that’s “lying”. I think that’s being tactful and smart. Let’s consider a hypothetical exame. A   colleage of yours comes to work with dreadlocks. You may think deep down its non-professional and doesnt suit her well but most people would not comment on this because they realize it’s not tactful and not politically correct. Are they “lying”? No, they are being normal well-adjusted individuals who mind their own business and get along. We don’t need full honesty in each and every situation in life.

    1. 10.1


      1). I agree with you about De Niro and 99% of the actors and actress over 50, maybe even over 40. To this day I will never forget a magazine cover from a year ago, with Sharon Stone on it. She is about 60 years old,   but they had her looking about 35 years old. Though she is, I’m sure, a very attractive woman for her age, she is nowhere near that good looking in person, or at the very least nowhere as young looking in person.


      2). I still say being tactful and lying is a fine line. But I am okay with lying about certain things (that’s just me) if I think it will help someone, Not hurt anyone, and make someone feel better. In the situation of the post, I would have probably lied and told my girl that yes you are as beautiful as Angelina or whatever celebrity in my eyes, not because she has a low self-esteem, but just because her smile would be more important to me than my self-righteousness.


      A lot of times on this blog, I just like debating issues, so that I can see them from all angles; this helps to sharpen my understanding of the subject while simultaneously helping me secure any possible gaps in my own argument.


      I think Evan and many of the other commenters issue with this is the mentality it breeds. Men and women thinking that a partner has to be dishonest to make a relationship successful, or an unrealistic believe of what a “good” partner will think about you compared to others.


      Or maybe they just don’t like the fact that so many men and women think they are better catches than they really are. They believe this because of the lies that their previous partners   so convincingly told them, so now instead of accepting their own limitations and flaws, these men and women dump perfectly good boyfriends and girlfriends because they are so enveloped in the lie, that accepting the truth about themselves is now impossible. Re-read Evan’s recent post on victim mentality.

      …    …    …

      Dreadlocks not looking good on a person is not the same as you stating that a man who negatively compares his woman to another woman (after she asked him first) is a step away from a abuser. I see people with bad hairstyles all the time and depending on how close I am to them, depends on my level of honesty. Sometimes, I know I should tell a person that their hairstyle is horrible, but I gain nothing from hurting someone’s feelings (I’m not saying this is right, again, this is just me).

      1. 10.1.1

        Adrian said:

        “Sometimes, I know I should tell a person that their hairstyle is horrible, but I gain nothing from hurting someone’s feelings.”

        And that, Adrian, is you being tactful, i.e. sparing the other person’s feelings without having to resort to an out and out lie.   You said you weren’t saying that it was right, and I say it is ABSOLUTELY right.   I won’t lie about and compliment, someone’s appearance, e.g. hairstyle, clothing choice, etc., but I will use the diplomatic approach.   “That color is so VIVID!”   “What a unique outfit!” “That hairstyle is so up-to-the-minute and edgy!”   I haven’t lied and said I liked any of it or even paid any of it a compliment, but the other person comes away feeling satisfied that they haven’t made the most awful choice of color, outfit or hairstyle on earth either.   And why should they?   MY opinion shouldn’t count for beans, why would I make that person feel bad about him/herself? There is something to be said for the art of diplomacy in a relationship, and it should be used often.   Nothing is gained by brutal honesty if its sole purpose is to make the commenter feel self-satisfied at the expense of the recipient.

        1. Adrian


          I noticed that many people are unhappy or depressed, so the smallest kindness (even from a stranger) makes their day.


          And sometimes, maybe, just maybe, they themselves pay it forward, giving a kindness to another stranger who is emotionally bankrupt, and in need of a kind word, or a warm smile.

      2. 10.1.2

        See, I prefer brutal honesty in a relationship. If you don’t like my hair, TELL me you dont like my hair if I ask you your opinion about it. You dont think I am hotter than Angelina? Dont tell me I am hotter than Angelina..there are other ways you can circumvent the question.   To me, you don’t have to either lie OR be tactless…I think that when someone lies to feed another’s ego (even if it’s your girlfriend), you allow her to believe things of herself that is simply not true.   Another alternative is to say nothing at all.   For instance, I have a friend (he is mid forties) who told me that people constantly tell him he looks at least 10 years younger. If you were to ask me, I think he looks at least 5 years older but I said nothing. It’s not my place to convince him otherwise but I won’t be feeding his ego on what I think is a false perception of self theory for darn sure.


        1. Stacy

          ‘false perception of self for darn sure’

        2. SMC

          Stacy, my way of saying I don’t like your hair would be me saying “It’s not my favorite style on you.”   And that would be as “brutal” as I could get, but I would ONLY do that to a close friend or relative, not a co-worker.   But yes, you are right about someone being honest in a relationship, and if you’re asking for honesty, then you should get it.   You and I are basically saying the same thing – tact counts.   There’s a way to be honest yet kind as opposed to honest but brutal.

          A hair “stylist” (and I use the term very loosely) butchered my bangs a few months ago, just lopped them right off to about an inch.   I hadn’t had bangs that short since I was eight years old and was sooo embarrassed for weeks afterward because there was nothing at all that I could do with them.   Got a lot of comments on them at the office, most of them neutral or humorous for which I was grateful because I already knew they looked stupid.   I didn’t ask my man what he thought, but he knew how terrible I felt about them so he was kind and sort of just kidded me about them but didn’t say “OMG, they look awful!” because that would have just been rubbing salt into the wound.   Tact counts.   Diplomacy counts.   Only two people said they made me look younger – the “stylist” and my mother.   🙂

  11. 11

    Another ‘Stacy’ here…

    It is ridiculous to expect that your man/spouse would think you are the most beautiful person he/she has ever seen because it’s simply not possible (unless you are comfortable with them lying to you). There will always be someone more objectively attractive.   However, I would never ask my boyfriend a question as silly as that in the first place.   I think the problem lies in how the other person responds though and not in the actual question itself (unless you are super insecure and just cant handle life very well).   I do not expect my man to sing praises about another woman while putting me down in anyway.   For instance, if a man alludes to someone being hotter than me and discusses this with me, I would question his intelligence level and his motivation in doing so. In other words, have some tact.

    Also, the person I am with should think I am hot stuff in my own right though. That’s a more than fair expectation.   My boyfriend   tells me how physically gorgeous he thinks I am anytime we are together but I also have been with him long enough to know that he thinks that I am mentally captivating (to him) so…win, win.   But I would be delusional to think I am better looking than everyone else he sees.

    1. 11.1

      The other Stacy,

      I am curious. What do you mean by hot stuff?


      I ask because I have met many women whom I think are attractive, but I do not think they are sexy or hot, even in their own right as you say. And I have always thought that was not a criticism or an insult.


      If your boyfriend thought you were attractive and he was VERY attracted to you, but he did not think you were “hot stuff”, would you be okay with that, or would you dump him, since you said “that’s more than a fair expectation” that your boyfriend would think you are hot stuff in your own right.


      I could be way off base by the way, since to me “hot stuff” equates sexy, and I feel many men and women can be attractive without an ounce of sex appeal.

      1. 11.1.1

        I apologize if this was posted twice. My comment seemed to have not gone through originally.



        I agree that there are people who I also find attractive but they don’t do it for me (no sex appeal). However, if a woman has lived long enough (I am 38), she tends to have a good idea based on general responses from men while ‘minding her business’ on what she is considered as to a lot of them.
        There are many men who would consider a curvy size 4 toned woman with a pretty face and sizeable boobs sexy to some degree so I generally have no problems being considered such in that area. But, at end of day, it only matters what the guy I am with really thinks. I define sexy as, ‘being drawn to someone sexually’ so yes, being sexy to my man is a requirement and would be a deal breaker otherwise. Funny thing is, the guy I am dating now grew on me because of his character. But, I don’t think most men are as lenient in that regard (and probably because they don’t have to be).

        1. Adrian

          Stacy… the other one?


          Recognizing, acknowledging, or even just finding someone physically attractive, yet having no “desire” for them has caused me much conflict with friends through the years.


          Most people can’t believe that a person could honestly find someone physically attractive, yet not want to date or at the very least sleep with them (maybe this is more of a male problem then a female one).


          So their first thought is that you are either too picky and you should be ashamed of yourself for not dating (or having sex with) such an attractive person because of your shallowness; then they predict (to your face) that you’ll end up alone; or they think you are gay secretly.


          When you always hear this from people you admire, and respect, you yourself (or at least I did) start to believe it. And as been discussed on many past forums, you start forcing yourself to be with people whom you have no physical desire for, because you think something is wrong with YOU for not wanting to be with such a kind, attractive person.


          I read a book about our sixth sense, which explains that the feeling of intuition is really just our brains noticing, and then analyzing things that we consciously don’t realize.


          This understanding has helped me as an adult so much. Now I realize that my lack of “sexual” attraction for these attractive women is probably because of something they said or did so briefly that my conscious mind didn’t focus on it.

          …    …    …

          Like you Stacy, I have met women whom I logically recognized as attractive, but didn’t think they were sexy and felt no desire for; morph into “beautiful and sexy” in my eyes because of their character.

          Beauty that steals the heart is often imperfect, suggests grace and kindness, and inspires tenderness more than it incites lust

      2. 11.1.2


        I am sure you’ve realized by now that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. I think what gives people pause is that there is the idea that most men will be willing to at least sleep with any woman that is remotely physically attractive so it’s unusual to hear a man passing up the opportunity(ies).  

        However, I have met many men that I did not find sexy although they clearly were physically attractive. It happens all the time so I feel your pain. I agree with you that there is probably a subconscious reason behind it.   Regardless, you can’t live for anyone else.   People tend to find it difficult to grasp truths that they themselves don’t represent. The people who have told you that simply can’t fathom feeling this way so they project.   But trust me, it’s not that unusual….(and I have a couple of male friends who have expressed the same).   Even when I hear women gush about certain men in hollywood, I get that spacey look because I just don’t get the attraction (example: Johnny Depp).


  12. 12

    First of all, I wouldn’t dream of asking my man if I was the most ANYTHING (beautiful, sexy, whatever) on the planet.   That creates terrible pressure, both on him (should he be honest or not?) and on me (is he going to be honest or not?) and I know full well I’m NOT the most anything on the planet.   When you think about it NOBODY is the smartest, prettiest, cleverest, etc. because it is all subjective.   As I used to tell my daughter when she started exhibiting insecurities around the age of 6 “Honey, there will always be someone prettier, smarter, funnier than you; you have to be the best that YOU can be and give it your 100% effort.”   Thankfully she outgrew the “but is she prettier than me?” stage into a wonderfully self-confident young woman who is comfortable in her own skin.

    I don’t understand the women who ask the cliche “Does my fanny look big in this?”   Just turn around and look, and you’ll KNOW if your fanny looks big in the outfit.   Don’t depend on your man to tell you because you might get his honest opinion in which case you’ve just caused a fight for no reason.   We all know when our fannies look big.   We do.   Don’t depend on your man to make you feel better about it.   My man is the honest sort, so when he gets that glow in his eyes and tells me I look <insert compliment>, I know I can believe him. But I sure don’t go inviting trouble by asking him to validate my insecurity about an outfit, either.

    On the other hand, my ex used to tell me I was the sexiest, most beautiful woman on the planet.   This  only after I’d gained 40+ pounds, stopped wearing makeup, and kept my hair up in a big clip.   I had completely let myself go in protest of the relationship (we slept in different rooms).   I wanted to ask “Yeah?   Then why haven’t we had sex in a year?”   Then it was two years, then three, then four.   He’d tell me that all. the. time.   And he stopped telling me that when I started to lose the weight, wear makeup and did something with my hair.   (Lots of issues there, no need to rehash it, it’s in the past.)

    We, ladies AND men, need to just make the effort to look our best, own it and go forth with confidence.   THAT is sexy and beautiful.

  13. 13
    Karmic Equation

    Is it just me?

    I’m trying to download the podcast to my Android. It doesn’t download.

    It doesn’t play on my desktop. I tried to open the podcast in a new tab and then paste the URL into Podcatcher. Then  Podcatcher can’t open the URL. It says “The podcast failed to load because the address does not point to a valid podcast feed.”

    What is the URL for the podcast?

      1. 13.1.1
        Karmic Equation

        Didn’t work. Couldn’t get it to work with Simple Podcatcher.

        So downloaded a different podcast player from Playstore.

        I was able to subscribe (so progress!)

        But the podcast still doesn’t play. Lost the error message, but something about the “handshake” not working and it’s trying to (and failing) to connect to… (rest of URL is truncated).

        1. cindyp

          Hi Karmic,

          Sorry you’re still having problems.  I will follow-up with you through email.

  14. 14
    Morgana Rae

    Happily I have a husband (thank you, Evan!) who isn’t looking for a Barbie doll, who finds me attractive as I am, and who has the kindness to not verbally compare me to other women who are younger/thinner/prettier/not his wife. And in turn, I give him opportunities  every day to enjoy what he has, and he does everything in his power to show me I’m loved.   <3

  15. 15

    Maybe it’s precisely because I was an ugly duckling compared to my sister as I was growing up that has helped me see below the surface when dating someone.   I just CAN’T focus on looks alone because that is SUCH a shallow pool in which to swim.   There is so much more below the surface, just as I knew there was below MY surface, but it wasn’t until I was an adult and had developed my own personality that anyone really cared to explore it.   All this talk about numbers assigned to perceived beauty makes my head want to blow up.   I wouldn’t begin to tell anyone here what I think I am, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   That’s the problem with us today – we are so focused on that number and we forget that it’s just a NUMBER for pete’s sake.   Who started it anyway?   (The movie “10,” I suppose.)   Luckily I also see a lot of commenters here who argue FOR those with smaller numbers.   Hear hear.

    I sound like a sour grapes 1 or 2, don’t I?   LOL!   We’ll never know, but I can say with all honesty I’ve never had a problem getting dates.   Maybe guys appreciate a good sense of humor more than the ladies think they do.   🙂

  16. 16
    Karl S

    Karl R said:

    However, OKCupid had users rate the still photos of other users.   When they crunched the numbers, there was less consensus than you would expect.   Certain people had more consensus than others.   Furthermore, a lack of consensus was beneficial for women.   (I don’t believe they’ve published  a similar analysis for men, though I would love to see those results … especially because it may work differently for men.)

    I read the book Dataclysm recently by the Okcupid founder and author of OKTrends, and unless I remember it wrong, he said that overall, the men rating women’s photos placed women’s physical attractiveness across a fairly even bell curve.

    However, in a separate study on messaging habits, the women who “polarized men” (or got higher variance in their individual score rating) received just as much attention from men as the women who’s variance was lower even if their overall score was higher.

  17. 17

    Thank you Evan, I really needed to hear this.

  18. 18

    If he truly loves her, she will be the most desirable woman in the world to him.

  19. 19

    I recently had a conversation with my boyfriend about this topic. To give some background, before him I had been in a very toxic relationship. My ex bf would comment on my weight constantly and there was this one time I particularlly recal while we were walking down the street where two random men cat- called me (I mean they really said such sexually vile things,) and my then bf turned and said to me “don’t you think you can get more of that if you lost weight?” Oh man was I livid!! I know I’m not the most beautiful woman in the world, but I do think I’m beautiful. I certainly don’t deserve to be told to be more beautiful to have men sexually fiening over me. I do not exist for the male gaze. As much as I knew my ex was wrong for his comments toward me, it did hurt my self esteem. That hurt, uninetionlly carries into my current relationship.

    My current bf does tell me I’m beautiful just the way I am, he doesn’t want to me to change how I look unless that will make me happy. I think that’s a beautiful thing. Sometimes I slip though and ask, do you think this person is prettier than me? (It’s almost like word vomit) and he tells me im the most beautiful woman in the world to him. I asked him what that meant (of course, my insecurities had to push the conversation further until I felt completely validated) and he said to me, you’re the complete package, you’re beautiful inside and out and there’s no one I want to be with than you. And I pushed further and asked so on looks alone there’s other women who are more beautiful? (Mind you, I know there technically are, but I let my insecurities run away with me) and he said to me you’re very beautiful and to drop the conversation. I hounded him on the subject for a week (I never did this with my ex even though he treated me horribly and my current bad treats me like a queen) and he finally broke and said no you’re not physically perfect or my idea of physical perfection, or in fact the most beautiful woman in the world, but “you’re the most beautiful woman to me because of all of you/ because you are Anjelica/ no one can compare to you” not saying you’re not physically beautiful to me, he followed by saying that he doesn’t like telling me that and that I forced it out of him and honestly I did. I felt hurt at first, but kind of liberated, as weird as that sounds. I felt like I can finally relax and not try to be someone I’m not (not like he asked me to) he also said that he never ever in his mind compares me to anyone else. He never looks at another woman and be like yeah I wanna spend the rest of my life with her. He has said I’m the most amazing woman he’s known and that feels better than being the most beautiful. Trust me, I’m the farthing thing from shallow, I’m the type of person that finds beauty in the most obscure places, and so on but my insecurities take over at time and I get this false sense of entitlement.

    My bf is a great guy, and I know what he means. It would be another thing if he made me feel I was ugly or called me that because everyone deserves to feel beautiful especially by their partner.

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    I understand all this, but trust me it DOES NOT feel good when your boyfriend says “Look how hot is Scarlet Johansson !”…… I’m chubby, “cute” as per most people on earth I have met, I know he thinks I’m cute and beautiful.. but still I find it difficult to accept it when he praises other women for their “hotness”, because I know I can never be “hot” and be “cute” all my life ! Ugghh!! I hate that feeling!

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