Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex – Part II

Why Women Should Make Men Wait for Sex - Part II

I’ve only done this twice before: once, in a post defending Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” and a second time, in a post explaining my opposition to Rori Raye’s “Circular Dating.” These were the only two times that I remember being equally frustrated at how something was being misconstrued that I needed to take an hour and go through a bullet point by bullet point dissection of my original thesis.

Now I know that writing this is not going to change a thing. People who were irked by the concept that women should make men invest more before having sex are still probably going to be irked – but at least I’ll know that I gave it my best shot to illustrate my arguments effectively. Okay, ready? Here we go.

Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex.

First of all, here was the premise of my original post:

“You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.”

I can’t see anything about which one can argue. As always, I was wrong. :)

Below are some of the comments I received (in italics), along with my responses.

“What about having sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation?”

What about it? If you can have sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation, then my advice to hold out for a commitment should be completely irrelevant. How irrelevant? As irrelevant as me wondering how often I should get a mammogram. Seriously. If advice doesn’t apply to you, then you can absolutely ignore it. What you can’t do is argue with advice that is not intended for you.

This is the exact same issue I had with women who tried to pillory Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” by saying that they settled in their first marriage so Ms. Gottlieb’s advice is completely “wrong.” No it’s not. If you’re a woman who wants to have her own biological children, you have more options when you’re in your early 30’s than you do in your early 40’s. Therefore, it’s wise to take your love life seriously at a younger age, and make smart compromises when you have the most attention from the largest pool of high quality men. If you don’t want to get married, if you don’t want to have kids, and if you would rather be alone than make any compromises, Ms. Gottlieb’s advice would not apply to you. No need to get upset.

“Sex doesn’t keep any man who doesn’t want to be kept. A woman can wait 6 months 6 days or 6 hours. If he isn’t marriage-minded, it makes little difference.”

Mostly correct. Alas, it wildly misinterprets what I was suggesting. Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex. As we’ve already established, they don’t have to. Sex is so readily available from women that there’s no incentive for a guy to have to say something untrue like, “I love you” or “I want to be your boyfriend” in order to get laid. And if that’s the case, then guess what? Holding out for commitment will, in fact, scare the guy away who only wants to get laid.

It’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you or does he just want to have sex with you?

Naturally, calling a guy a boyfriend doesn’t guarantee a lasting marriage – not by any stretch of the imagination. But it does do one thing: it ensures that the guy you just slept with is not seeing anybody else and is seriously open to exploring a future. (Unless, of course, he’s a psycho who would lie to your face to get laid – and I’m suggesting most normal men would rather find another woman than to do that.) 

“There is a shaming of women for wanting to have sex.”

From whom? Not from me. As I said in my original post, “I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment.” Hell, I’ve had a lot of sex without commitment. But guess what? Most of it was completely selfish. I was attracted to them on date 1, 2, or 3. I had no intention of stepping up as a boyfriend. And if she let me know that she didn’t sleep with guys outside of a commitment, I’d have been out the door in a heartbeat. Which is the entire point of my suggestion – it weeds out the guys who aren’t serious about you really fast.

 “This is why so many feel “used” because they waited a month, or two, or three and finally “gave in” and POOF he’s gone anyways.”

I didn’t say that you should wait a month or two or three before “giving in”. Waiting for some arbitrary time period has never been the point. Because, you’re right: a guy can “wait you out” for 7 arbitrary dates, fuck you, and then bail. But since most men do not want the hassle or the emotion of calling you a girlfriend and THEN bailing, by refusing sex without commitment, you weed those guys out. Understand, if a guy is really into you after 3 dates, you can both agree to give a relationship a shot and have sex. I’ve done that a number of times – where I was so whipped that I dove into an exclusive sexual relationship right away. So it’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you enough to commit or does he just want to have sex with you?

“We woman are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Have sex too soon and you’re considered too easy. Wait too long and the guy will get it somewhere else.” 

Nope. No one is calling you easy for having sex. No one is suggesting that you’re losing out on a prize of a man if he values getting laid in three dates over how much he values you. You think you’re damned either way. I think you have all the power in the world: to be sexual, to assess your options, to understand his point of view, to make him feel good, and to STILL insist that your man be interested in pursuing a relationship before you have sex.

“EMK’s advice seems unrealistic for anyone not wearing a promise ring.”

Actually, it’s quite realistic. If you think she’s playing games to “catch” you, then nothing I can do will convince you. But if you had a great connection with a confident woman who told you that she doesn’t like the idea of you going home to write to other women online after you have sex, you would insist to her that you DO have the right to do that? Let me know how that conversation goes.

“Plus as a woman who likes sex, what the hell am I going to tell this guy if I don’t like the sex?”

You break up with him. All you people who are focused on “test driving” the car, I get it. Sex is important. But that’s the thing about dating: you have TWO PLUS YEARS to figure out if you want to get married. Sexual compatibility is one of many factors you’ll have to consider in determining your future. But choosing a boyfriend is a considerably lower bar to jump than choosing a husband.

You “sex first” people act as if you have to have sex before commitment or else. Or else what? Or else you’d discover after a month that you have different libidos, or that he isn’t great at cunnilingus? You think you have to discover this BEFORE you have a commitment…but isn’t the whole point of dating to continue to discover things to assess whether you can spend your life with a person? Again, I’m not saying sex isn’t important. I’m saying that you can engage in lots of serious foreplay before having sex, give an exclusive relationship a shot, and if it doesn’t work for ANY reason, you have the right to break up, one months, two months, three months down the line. In that regard, sex is no different than learning that he’s got anger issues or is a bad communicator. You work with what you’ve got and if you can’t make it work, you break up. You don’t HAVE to have sex first; you WANT to have sex first. Which is fine – as long as the woman is up for the insecurity of not knowing where your relationship is headed. Many, as you know, are not. 

“If our culture starts once again demanding and creating chaste women, you’re going to get chaste women through and through.”

Chaste means abstaining from extramarital or all intercourse. I’m saying that women should wait until he’s a boyfriend, even if that means date 3.

“Best thing is to remove expectations so you will never get hurt.” 

As a dating coach, I spend a lot of time managing women’s expectations and trying to ensure they’re realistic. If you expect to fall in love in 30 days on Match, you’ll be disappointed. If you expect that only “appropriate” men will write, you’ll be disappointed. If you think that just because you had a great date that you’re in a relationship, you’ll be disappointed. What I’m talking about here is completely different. You can “remove expectations” and not be too surprised when the guy who fucked you is on OkCupid the next day. I guess that’s healthy. But why put yourself through that? Why not just save intercourse for men who verbally told you that they want to be exclusive with you?

Why remove all expectations from men and expect nothing from them? Remember, that’s the biggest problem – you’ve seen it all over this blog: “Men only text! Men just want to hook up! Men don’t want to pay! Men don’t plan in advance! Men are players who don’t want to commit!” And so the answer to that is to sleep with them, expect nothing, communicate by text, and take your chances that you both decide a relationship is viable? I don’t like those odds.

If you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuse to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company.

Now to avoid being misinterpreted: if you WANT to text, fuck, and not have any expectations from the guy, God Bless You. This advice has nothing to do with you and you should have absolutely no criticism of it. This advice is ONLY for women who are SICK of sleeping with men and feeling like crap afterward because they don’t know where they stand. I will repeat this two or three more times.

“What I want to challenge you on is this notion that women ought to be bartering sex for commitment.”

I would like to challenge that notion, too. Because my clients who hold out for commitment are not bartering sex for commitment.

My clients are taking enough time to see two things: 1) whether HE is potential boyfriend material – kind, consistent, communicative, relationship-oriented and 2) whether SHE likes HIM enough to make him her boyfriend. Because as you know, it’s easy to have sex with someone out of attraction. But attraction is not a good predictor of compatibility. So if my clients take a little extra time to get past the initial lust phase and start to see a man clearly, they can usually tell if he is making enough effort to be a boyfriend AND if she likes HIM enough to commit to him.

This is coming from a place of POWER, not weakness. In my world, women are the CEO’s and the men are the interns applying for the job. And if you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuses to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company. The petulant interns who think that they deserve to have sex with women without commitment because it’s been three dates are not going to get the job. They will feel righteous, as if the woman is being a prude or playing a game. She is not. She is putting herself first because she has determined that sleeping with a man and waiting by the phone for him to call sucks and she doesn’t want to have to go through it again. I believe that’s her right. Just as it’s his right to bail. In my book, it’s more his loss than hers.

These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit.

“What keeps guys around is not sex or the prospect of sex (although it sure doesn’t hurt). It’s a strong confident in herself woman who takes pride in herself and doesn’t rely on sneaky tactics to try to catch or keep a man.”

100% agree. A confident woman will have absolutely no compunction about telling some overzealous guy that she barely knows to keep his dick in his pants. It takes confidence to be willing to let a cute guy walk away because he is not getting his sexual needs met on his timetable. These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit and keep women from having their hearts broken by pump-and-dump guys.

Another aside for those who have forgotten: if you are fine having NSA sex with men who are not committed to you, that’s your business. Whatever makes you happy. I’m not judging you, shaming you, or telling you that you’re wrong. I’m telling women who hate the feeling of being in limbo with a man how to avoid being in limbo ever again.

“Being ready to share intimacy with a man you like and have a connection with is by no means being reckless. It’s being real and embracing your feminine wholeness.” 

If you are comfortable sleeping with men from your place of “feminine wholeness” without any expectations, that’s cool. Many women are not. This advice is for them.

“I had sex with my man on the first date and shortly after he asked me for a relationship and now I am claimed as his girlfriend.” 

Yep. A lot of relationships start that way. Most of mine included. I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it. When two strangers hop into bed for a night of passion, the dynamic changes, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes, he doesn’t even like you as a person.
Sometimes, he likes your body, but not your personality.
Sometimes, he’s really lonely and really horny.
Sometimes, he’s seeing someone else at the same time.
Sometimes, he’s on the rebound.
Sometimes, he’s emotionally unavailable.
Sometimes, he’s a selfish prick.

So when one poster defends her “fuck first, ask questions later” philosophy by saying, “I got to know him after sex. I got to know all my men after sex,” what she’s really saying is that she’s willing to take a chance on a man who may not like her as a person, a man who is lonely, a man who is seeing other women, a man who is emotionally unavailable, or a man who is a selfish prick. Why? Because she has no expectations. And because she has no expectations and is perfectly willing to hop into bed with a guy, you should, too.

I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it.

Read that list again. Have you ever slept with a man like that? You don’t think that if you went out with him 7 times over the course of 4 weeks, you could maybe have figured some of that stuff out BEFORE sleeping with him?

Another reminder: if you have no issues sleeping with men who are jerks, this advice isn’t for you. But my intimation is that you’re going to know a guy MUCH better – particularly his long-term intentions and how you get along with him platonically – after a month than after a night. So what’s the harm in this again?

“Maybe we just like sex too and we need to get laid as much as men.”

Cool by me. But that wasn’t the point of the video or my blog post. It’s to protect women who don’t have that same outlook from getting hurt.

“Why would a man want a relationship with all that it involves when he can go have sex and leave and do whatever he wants?”

Because men look for sex and find love. In the act of pursuing sex, he gets to know you better and determines that he really loves being around you. The more he loves being around you, the more he’ll want to be around you over all others. And when he values you over all others, he’ll spend his whole life with you because what he gains from the relationship is greater than what he gives up by being monogamous.

“Sex is easy… a relationship is a journey.  If these interactions are not at least playful and easy from the start, they rarely ever become.”

Agreed. No one wants to have to negotiate for sex. Which is why it’s in really bad form to ask someone on the first date what his long-term intentions are. And why it’s in really bad form to ask someone if he’s seeing someone else. And why it’s in bad form to ask how many partners someone has had. And why I would never suggest that a woman come out and say to a man over appetizers: “By the way, I will not be sleeping with you tonight.” Yes, that would take all the fun right out of it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman saying, on the fifth date when he’s reaching for the condom drawer, “Hey, I’m really attracted to you and would love to sleep with you, however I don’t like having sex with guys who are actively looking for other women on Match.com. You can understand, right?” And he’ll say, “Yeah, I get it.” And then she’ll say, “So, when we both figure out if this is a relationship worth exploring, you’re in for the night of your life. In the meantime, I can think of some other fun things to do…” And then they can proceed to explore each others’ bodies to the limits of whatever boundaries she decides to set.

As an aside, it’s interesting how some “no means no” women get really upset when I tell women that they’re actually allowed to say “no”. As if I’m restricting your choice or slut-shaming you for saying yes. I’m not. I’m only saying one thing: sleeping with a man without commitment increases your chances of getting heartbroken by a selfish, emotionally unavailable, commitmentphobic guy. If you are willing to take that risk because you love sex so much, more power to you.

I’m glad that I’ve outlined a paradigm that so many women have used to great effect. A woman can say no to intercourse and still be cool, fun, playful, sexual, confident and attractive to men. All it means is that she has her own very reasonable boundaries about when she has sex. If he can’t respect that, he should move along.

Holding out for sex is not about holding out until marriage, tricking him into a relationship or trying to keep him around. On the contrary, it’s about taking enough time to assess whether your guy is truly boyfriend-worthy rather than sex-worthy.

And, as I may have mentioned: if you don’t care if he’s boyfriend-worthy and you just want to have sex, fuck away as you see fit. No one’s judging you.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Marina Adshade

    If you genuinely want to say that you do not support slut shaming then you need to retract your statement in your previous post that “affirms everything that I’ve ever written about sex and gender”. The argument made in the video makes no claim that individual women should withhold sex in order to encourage a man to commit to a relationship. In fact, the main point of the video is that the current “economic” environment that would never work because that man can always find more cooperative women. The argument of the video is that women need to find a way to coerce other women into withhold sex. The are advocating for slut shaming – there is absolutely no way around that. I don’t necessarily think you are wrong in what you say, but I do not think that you agree with the argument in this video. I suspect that if you watch it carefully you will find that you fundamentally disagree with the message that women should “police” (their word, not mine) each other’s behaviour.

    1. 1.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I endorsed a point in the video – the point is that women teach men how to treat them. The fact that there are women who think that they HAVE to put out because OTHER women put out is as much of a problem as “slut shaming”. I’m giving those women who DON’T want to put out a script on how to message it, in a confident and effective fashion. That is MY point – even if it’s not the original video’s point.

      In other words, the video was just a means to start the dialogue.

      I’ve written five pages explaining that I’M not slut shaming anyone. I don’t think I need to explain myself any further since I spent two hours writing the above post.

      1. 1.1.1
        Paulette

        Evan, you don’t have to explain yourself again… Your writing and advice is crystal clear and free of shaming anyone!   Maybe some who believe you are shaming women are more concerned with getting approval than owning and being confident in the path they have chosen.

      2. 1.1.2
        Jennifer

        How one feels after reading a dating advice blog is a personal thing. Even isn’t implying anything he is just pointing out the facts. How one feels afterwards is a reflection of there own confidence or demons or just another decent piece of advice to help us through the joys and or sorrows of dating.
        its not like hes speaking of your specific good or bad choices. Even is evidanced based however it applies to you is personal.
        I dont always like what I read but I usually can learn something about my own choices and also about men in general. I take his blog advice and aplly it how I feel necessary. Nothing in dating is an exact science. Science by definition is all about trial and error. What works and doesn’t work isn’t going to be exactly the same for everyone, or every relationship for that matter.
        Thank you Evan, reaing your blog has been very helpful in my dating life. Specifically your “mirroring” concept.

  2. 2
    Ruby

    It’s not that I disagree with your premise, but when you align yourself with a particular conservative ideology, you may have your own beliefs called into question. Same thing happened with the Venker post from last year.  You might not agree with everything the writer says, but others are going to wonder why you’re promoting that ideology then. Might actually be more effective to just promote what you believe, rather than using someone else’s writings, even as an example.
    A woman needs to act in a way that makes her comfortable. It shouldn’t be contingent on what a man expects, or the way that other women behave. Most women who are looking for a serious relationship are more probably going to be more comfortable waiting longer for sex. Most men who are relationship-minded will probably understand that. I’m not saying you are advocating this, but waiting for sex shouldn’t be considered a “strategy” that will make a man want you more, because I don’t think it works like that, and some might construe your meaning that way.

    1. 2.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      When did it become “conservative ideology” that no means no? I’m a party line liberal, but I really take offense to the ideas that liberals have cornered the marketplace on good ideas and conservatives are idiots. The fact is that if women don’t hold men to any sort of standard except “attraction” before having sex, that means they’re going to a lot of sex with attractive, unreliable, rude, distant, emotionally unavailable men. That is their right. But then, to complain that men never call, never text, never make plans in advance, never pay…and all they want to do is hook up – well, forgive me if I find that to be a bid disingenuous. As I said AT LENGTH in my above post my “strategy” is not to manipulate men into commitment; it’s to protect women who are uncomfortable having sex with a guy who is still seeking out other women. I am an advocate for women making healthy relationship decisions and I would think that if you follow my advice, you will avoid a great deal of heartbreak.

      Oh, and Venker – for all her right-wing nuttiness – ALSO had a point, which my liberal feminist readers fail to acknowledge: men want to FEEL good around you. It’s on Page 1 of Why He Disappeared. So while you may value yourself for being brash, driven, tenacious, busy and opinionated… those qualities are not necessarily helpful in the context of a relationship, which is all about sensitivity, compromise, and acceptance. Venker’s book – like the video I posted the other day – may not have been EXACTLY my thoughts, but that doesn’t mean that they have no value themselves. I fear anyone who immediately rejects an idea without exploring the possibility that it makes sense. And all the women who reflexively freaked out about the idea that it may in fact be in women’s long-term self-interests to say no to sex are as myopic as their colleagues on the far right. I’m not slut-shaming anyone. I’m offering common sense to women who are sick of getting fucked and dumped.

    2. 2.2
      Martha

      “A woman needs to act in a way that makes her comfortable. It shouldn’t be contingent on what a man expects, or the way that other women behave.”
       
      “Most women who are looking for a serious relationship are more probably going to be more comfortable waiting longer for sex.”
       
      “waiting for sex shouldn’t be considered a “strategy” that will make a man want you more”
       
      In regards the statements you made above.
       
      Heaps of women sleep early with men, then complain why the guy isn’t committing. Lots of articles backing this up which can be found via Google. Thus, ultimately, waiting until being officially a couple weeds men out that aren’t interested in an LTR with you.
       
      Having said that, a man isn’t going to choose you as a long term partner if you aren’t willing to meet his most important needs. Why should he pick you as a long term partner out of all the other women he is dating?
       
      Thus whilst I do agree that a woman should act in a way that makes her comfortable, simultaneously she needs to consider a man’s need. The same way a man should consider your most important needs when dating you.

      1. 2.2.1
        Jenn

        Martha, 
        Having sex is an important need but I believe it is not, as you say, a man’s most important need. Not unless he’s a perpetual player whose sole interest in women is getting laid. Men have other, more important needs than sex, even if sex is right up there near the top of the list. A relationship-oriented man who is looking for a long-term commitment (maybe even marriage) will NOT mind waiting, especially if he really likes a woman and can see a future with her. None of the guys I’ve been out with over the past year have even alluded to having sex within the first few dates. That is because they were not looking just to get laid. Men pick women as partners because they offer more important qualities than just how good the women are in the sack. To assert that men will only willingly commit if a woman has sex with them seems disrespectful both to women and to the men who may be looking for something more in a partner than just a great lay. 

        1. Martha

          Jenn,
           
          With all respect, where have I stated that a man’s most important need is sex? I haven’t. At all.
           
          All I stated was: “Having said that, a man isn’t going to choose you as a long term partner if you aren’t willing to meet his most important needs.”
          NEEDS – plural. Whatever those needs are.

      2. 2.2.2
        Carmen

        Martha,
        “Why should he pick you as a long term partner out of all the other women he is dating?”

        The REASON, he would choose me over all the other women he may be dating is that certain, je ne sais quoi. That’s the reason I would want someone to choose me. Some quality I have that no one else does. Something he finds fascinating, something he hungers for that he can’t get anywhere else. Sex, yes, he can find it many places and if that’s all he’s looking for, I wish him well and cast him into the realm of “could have been but wasn’t “.

    3. 2.3
      Yogagurl

      Why is it a “conservative ideology”? This isn’t politics.  Evan isn’t advocating this because of some ideology but because he feels this will empower women the most!  There are reasons behind it.  Also waiting for sex isn’t a “strategy”…it’s called having healthy boundaries. Amazing how some of you twist things.

  3. 3
    Doug Manning

    I always told my kids, “Fast in, fast out.  Slow in, slow out.”  Of course anyone can have sex anytime they want.  If the objective is just the sex, who cares what the timing is.  However, if a person is in the market for a long-term relationship, your advice is sound – any gender in a hurry ought to be asked to wait.  If they don’t want to wait – well, they’re just not the more mature ‘delayed gratification’ type. 

    1. 3.1
      Christie

      Thank you for that comment, Doug and for adding a male voice to the comments. That one really hit me – ‘Fast in, fast out. Slow in, slow out’. You’re so right. You sound like a wonderful father. Your kids are lucky to have had your advice.

  4. 4
    Sierra

    Evan, I love your blog. I’m a little frustrated by all the comments that totally misinterpret your message and argue all kinds of crazy shit that is not even what you are speaking to. I just ranted a bit on your facebook because a woman actually wrote a blog post “disagreeing” with you, and saying how wrong you are, and she totally misinterpreted your message. I just had a taste of how you may feel reading people’s responses who misinterpret your articles, it’s crazy making. Wow. I seriously think that you deserve a medal for dealing with these people. I am fine with people disagreeing with what you are actually saying, but distorting your words and meaning and taking up people time and space to rant about what your not even saying? Crazy making!!! Anyways Love your Blog so much you totally Rock evan!! <3

    1. 4.1
      Gabri'el

      I completely agree with your statement Sierra, I broke my foot a few weeks ago, then I found Evan’s site; with so much time on my hands I ended up reading all his blog post, starting with his first one… Evan has always been clear and consistent with his message and views, but I swear he has to re-explain himself ever 10-15 blogs, if you read his material back to back you will quickly see the pattern of his posters, he is misinterpreted and misquoted more than you think… Funny thing is… many men say he is always on the female posters sides and many women say he’s on the male posters side, or like with this subject many of the posters forgot what her wrote about the same subject just a few weeks ago to a women who wrote him asking about a guy who didn’t want to wait or the post after that with the women who wrote asking could she have sex without a commitment… Evan has always been consistent
       
      I still say THANKS Evan, though I’m not a woman I love reading your blogs, situations like this help me understand that is a women is waiting to have sex it’s not because she is trying to use sex -or he lack there of- as a weapon or way to manipulate me, but it’s because she wants to see if I’m sincere and consistent with what I’m telling her

  5. 5
    soulsister

    I am with Sierra, #4….people can argue their POV all they want, and there are always exceptions, but it is 100% true (for me!) that when I thought there might be LRT potential with a guy, I did not sleep with him until I knew he was ready to be exclusive.  If I was horny, or feeling liberated, or drank too much, I made sure I slept with the guy I WASN’T interested in an LTR with.  Not because my “game” would secure the exclusive option, but because if I really thought I might like him, and we had sex and he disappeared, I.Felt.Like. Shit. The one I wasn’t interested in?? If he never called again, I didn’t care, because I wasn’t interested in the first place!  I have no morale issues with sleeping with a man right away, I just know that protecting myself from hoping/wondering/praying when a good one came along was to not have sex with him.  If I liked him, I CARED that he did a fuck and dump.  I know that might be a backwards way to look at it, but truthfully, get screwed and dumped enough times, you should start figuring it out.  I am as liberated as they come, but I always tell my friends, if you like him, don’t sleep with him until you are the only one he is sleeping with.  I don’t have a single female friend who is ok with a guy she likes not calling her again.  I have lots of female friends who are ok with a no strings attached night with a guy she doesn’t really have hopes for.  And if you think you really like him, and won’t be able to “control” yourself, buy yourself a bullet and take care of things BEFORE the date…..really, we are big girls here, we should be able to keep our pants on by now!

    1. 5.1
      John Galt

      I’m not judging you, but do you understand that people follow incentives, and that you get more of what you reward and less of what you punish?  By making it more “expensive” for a guy to be “LTR material” while rewarding guys who are not…you push guys to be less of the former and more of the latter?  
      Further,  if women hate being “pumped and dumped,” there is a male equivalent of pouring resources into a woman only to be “friendzoned.”  I think a lot of what we describe as male sociopathic behavior is simply guys observing what seems to work with women and copying it. 
      I don’t have a solution, just thought I would make an observation.  

    2. 5.2
      betty

      I understand the inclination to make him wait for sex in order to protect yourself from being hurt. However, it won’t change the end result.
      Realistically if he leaves you after sex then he will leave you regardless of how long you make him wait. Also, if you like him then most likely you’ll feel like shit if he leaves you whether you had sex or not.
      Similarly, a man who would pursue a LTR with you will do so even if you have sex relatively quickly. It may even increase your chances of a relationship b/c if you wait too long than he may assume you’re not interested and move on.
      Whatever the result, making a man wait won’t make a difference one way or another.

  6. 6
    Sabrina

    Thanks for the reminder that as a woman, the power is in my hands!  If a guy doesn’t like me enough to want to wait until I’m comfortable, he just doesn’t like me enough.  And why would I want to be with him?  Having a guy walk away in frustration after 3 dates is better than him breaking up with me over some other reason after 3 years.

  7. 7
    Dina Strange

    One of the best posts written by you, Evan. Thank you!

    1. 7.1
      Mimi

      Totally agree! 

  8. 8
    Sophie

    Totally agree with Soulsister
    I just seduced a guy on date #2, all he was hoping for was a hug, not even a kiss. But I was sooooo horny, like you can only be at 39 and I didn’t see him as a future husband, so the guy got lucky… if I were into a guy I would have never slept with him on date#2.
     

  9. 9
    Catharine

    I found out the hard way, later in life about having sex too soon. He did not like me, blew hot and cold and treated me like dirt when we were not having sex.  I thought I was a pretty smart woman, but I was wrong.  If I had waited, I would have kicked him to the curb and gone on with life instead of being very unhappy. Don’t kid yourself and think in time it will get better, it will not.

  10. 10
    SparklingEmerald

    Thank you ! EMK for your response to:
    “What I want to challenge you on is this notion that women ought to be bartering sex for commitment.”
    I have made the same argument that it isn’t bartering as you, and caught a boatload of carp for it.
     
    Any man who tries to manipulate a woman into bed with that line is essentially saying that women were put on earth to service the desires of men, with no regards to fulfilling their own desires.   That would put him in the selfish jerk category, exactly the kind of men that your advice is designed to weed out.  I guess women who claim that your advice is bartering,  are essentially saying the same thing, and I have to wonder about their self esteem.
     
     

  11. 11
    SweetGrl4U

    Sex is so readily available from women that there’s no incentive for a guy to have to say something untrue like, “I love you” or “I want to be your boyfriend” in order to get laid. And if that’s the case, then guess what? Holding out for commitment will, in fact, scare the guy away who only wants to get laid.
    Well said, well written, no other explanation needed.  It’s that simple ladies!  
     

  12. 12
    Judy

    Love this post, Evan, it is your very best and thank you for looking out for us!

  13. 13
    Marie

    Well-written Evan!  One of your best posts.  I would say it’s no surprise that some women react so vehemently to your wait for sex advice.  They take it as a personal attack on their character and way of life, passing judgement in them along the way even if they are not the intended audience.  Ever notice it’s usually the same posters who get worked up?  And there’s also the secret fear that if you are right then that means how they’ve been doing things may have been wrong or ineffective and therefore they are the common denominators in their failures.  There are only a handful of people at a time who are truly open minded and want to change – these are the ones you write for. The rest will persist in their culture of blame – its never them, but their ex, men, society, other women competing, their job, kids, age, match.com sucking, the decline of marriage, expectations for sex, etc.  Women who date seriously need to take personal responsibility for the part they can control – their own actions.  And if what you are doing is not working so far then doesn’t that tell you not to repeat the same thing?

    1. 13.1
      Lynn

      LOL Marie some of us take longer to come out of the insanity (taking same action expecting different response) than others. It took me so long I’m almost embarrassed to admit it. But I think sooner or later the pain gets great enough to motivate us.  I could not imagine before taking a different action how powerful and joyful I feel now. And I’m certain that because of this I’m attracting quality men, almost too many of them. (Ha ha as if!) Had to experience the results directly. I want people to not take my word for it but give it a genuine try and see if it works. If not, what have you lost? 

      1. 13.1.1
        Marie

        Exactly Lynn.  There’s a time for everything though.  Sometimes people are not ready.  I’ve been tempted to go off this blog because technically I don’t need it anymore.  I’ve found the man I was trying to find all my life.  But I keep running into such extraordinarily BAD advice given to women by women commentators on here trying to prove Evan wrong that I feel compelled to say something.  It’s not just Evan you are affecting, but other impressionable readers who may not have the experience or judgment to truly understand the difference between Evan’s advice and run of the mill dating advice.  And these impressionable readers may actually follow the bad advice!  I suppose one can say it’s their “fault” for not having the judgment but how are they supposed to really know without implementing it?  It still gives me chills to think how different my life could have been had I listened to negative commentators on this blog rather than joining Evan’s group.  Really, I would have missed out on some of the best things in life.  I was never one to be that interested in marriage, dating, babies, on-line dating, but I kept an open mind.  I thought, why not?  The other thing is, people don’t realize you can adapt Evan’s advice to your personal goals and values.  He’s not a one size fits all.  You have to learn what you can from him and then have the common sense to try out what works for you.  I’m glad you found your way and are on here.  Maybe I won’t feel the need to post as much.

    2. 13.2
      Pauline

      Well said Marie, I couldn’t agree more with your comments.
      Great post Evan, one of your best. 

  14. 14
    Christine

    Evan, I love this post and the previous post with the video. I saw the video on Freakonomics. I shared it on FB, thinking it accurately depicted my personal experiences in the past several years. Then I saw your post saying it affirmed what you’ve been saying all along. It was an interesting synchronicity and confirmed to me that I am personally going in the right direction with this issue.

    I am only speaking for myself, but I think it’s hard to admit that the  some of the things I believed/did in dating didn’t/don’t get the results I wanted in relationships. Once I got over the need to be right, I was able to focus on doing what works.I would rather do what it takes to find a great man than keep doing what doesn’t work and not get the results I want. That includes waiting to have sex with someone.
    I don’t agree with everything you say, but I think your perspective on this issue is spot on. Thank you!

  15. 15
    Ana

    Evan,
    As usual, well said. One thing I’m wondering about is the risk of STDs in the role of  selecting partners. It seems the discussion centers on whether creating personal boundaries support or restrict sexual expression. Time is spent addressing how to say,  “I have sex within committed relationships” which is great , but even then the increased number of sexual partners increases the risk of exposure to STDs, and even when a male is being honest about STD health status HPV is tested in men, but does show up in testing in women with the potential for impacting fertility. It seems to me that science and math are being ignored in these discussions, and I would love to hear your take on that dimension of sex .

  16. 16
    Danaris

    What I think is so fascinating about the reactions to this post or really this blog in general is how it plays out many of the things I’ve read about how men and women process information as well as good ole human nature.
     
    First, if you’ve read books or gone to seminars by Alison Armstrong, it’s no surprise that when Evan posts a blog or a video and wants his female readers to take away the one clear point in his mind, that they may get that one point, but they also focus on the details…details which can overshadow his point.   Women’s focus on the details happened not only in this post, but in the post from the guy who thought his girlfriend was too busy, as well as the post of the 33 year old woman who connected with the 50 year old man, and tons more.   I know I sure focused on some of the details in the video – details that I didn’t think Evan supported per se, but they were part of the video so it was hard for me to ignore them and just focus on the main message.  But, that’s often how women think.   Is that the way it should be?  I don’t know, but it’s just the way it is.   The question then becomes what does one do if you don’t want women to be distracted by details that detract from the main message? 
     
    Second, I went to a seminar called the cure for complaining and one thing I learned is the notion that people who have resolved an issue have very little tolerance for hearing complaints from people who haven’t resolved or conquered that issue.  You very much see that dynamic playing out on the blog for the women who have taken Evan’s advice and found their man versus the women who are still searching and might be struggling a bit.   Also, at the core of a complaint is a sense of powerlessness…which again is what we see playing out.  Evan’s successful women feel empowered while the other women feel powerless in the dating game – at least in some areas.   As one of the women who has complained from time to time, for me doing what Evan suggested was scary because in the back of mind was the thought, what if I do everything he says and I’m still not successful, won’t that just confirm that I am really and truly unlovable?   Is this reasoning counter productive and seeming crazy?  Sure it is because as human being we are often irrational and crazy.  But, I really do believe that some of the resistance to changing and adopting some of Evan’s suggestion really is the fear that “If I try these things that have worked for so many other women and it doesn’t work for me, then I really am a loser.”   I don’t know exactly when people are ready to change and finally open to doing something different.  From my personal, it’s happened in a private moment when I have been honest and loving with myself.  
     
    Finally, I do wonder what is the role and/or impact on this blog of sharing personal experiences or opinions that might be different from what Evan indicates is effective in dating.  

    1. 16.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      People (not men, not women) don’t want to have their worldview challenged – even when that worldview isn’t “working” or making them happy. People will defend their right to be wrong/unhappy/ineffective all day long. Which is why I never understand the anger when I give advice that doesn’t apply to you. If you’re happy having sex with no commitment, why would you be remotely threatened that there are other women who might benefit from such a policy? I’m not making you “wrong”; yet you feel attacked because I’m suggesting that, for a greater number of women, sex without commitment is a losing strategy for personal happiness. There are studies that show the exact same thing. Here’s a perfect example:

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/culture-in-mind/201111/no-strings-attached-sex-nsa-can-women-really-do-it

      Dissenters are pretty much saying, “The study is WRONG,” which is not true, or “The study doesn’t apply to ME,” which is perfectly fair. But all the op-ed pieces explaining why NSA sex is healthy are ignoring the studies that show otherwise. In other words, it seems like people WANT the study to be untrue even if it’s not. Being closed to contradictory evidence is ideological thinking personified. I’m not built that way. Show me the study where women are – on the whole – HAPPIER having sex with men who show no signs of wanting a relationship, and I’ll concede that I was mistaken. But an anecdote how YOU had sex with a guy and didn’t care or how YOU had sex and it turned into love doesn’t refute the larger studies that suggest otherwise.

      If you want anecdotal evidence? Read 7 years of this blog with women despondent over the man who is sleeping with her and not committing. Just because YOU’RE not built that way doesn’t mean many other women aren’t entitled to their feelings.

      1. 16.1.1
        beth

        Good Psychology Today article. However, I think one aspect is commonly misinterpreted and that is the role of oxytocin.
        First, oxytocin is released during orgasm. Many women report not having an orgasm during sex so the role of oxytocin is irrelevant in these cases.  However, some women still become ‘emotionally attached’ to men after having sex where she doesn’t orgasm. Thus oxytocin can’t be the only reason for emotional attachment.
        Second, people confuse an emotional attachment with a sexual attachment.
        As a woman, I can tell you that yes when I orgasm I feel attached to my partner. However, I attach to him as someone I would like to have sex with again. I don’t become attached to him as a person or suddenly desire to have a committed relationship with him if I wasn’t already desirous of one.
        Evolutionarily this makes sense. Female orgasm isn’t necessary for conception but it does dramatically increase the chances. Not to mention a woman who orgasms from sex is more likely to choose sex over ‘alternative methods’ of sexual relief.
        However, women are much less likely to orgasm from an encounter than men and it’s difficult to tell if a man can give her an orgasm before having sex with her. Thus it makes sense for a woman to have sex with a man she knows will bring her to orgasm as opposed to leaving him and continually having sex with multiple men that only leave her frustrated.  

  17. 17
    Lynn

    Well put Evan, thank you so much for writing this.  Waiting helps eliminate guys who are bad bets, and reduce your risk when dating.  It’s fine to jump in if there is no long term potential and thus low probability of disappointment.  I hate all the talk about no expectation, because we don’t control that, we should instead be honest with ourselves on the expectation we have “I want to be with this guy” or “I want to see if we have long term potential” “I want to be friends” and then make a decision according to that expectation.  Go with it, don’t understand that if we wait, a lot of guys will fall sideways but the right guy will wait and then it’s less likely one gets hurt.

  18. 18
    Erica

    Evan,
    Spot on and great AMAZING article!! I really don’t understand why women are even going back and forth and making this a controversy. Nothing short of the truth and for you to take time to clarify is even more deserving of gratitude. This is what young women need to know. I wish you were my parent aa a teenager. Lots of wisdom and I would have spared a fair share of heartache. Everyone won’t always agree but for those of us who do completely – THANK YOU so much and for addressing something that our culture is starting to forget and even get offended at by trying to preserve more of our worth and value by being the CEO of our own lives.
    Bravo, kudos, and many many thanks to you.
    E.
     

  19. 19
    Lynn (the other one!)

    Once again I’ll say that sexclusivity is empowering. The quality men will respect it. I’ve had two dates with one, with major attraction. His response to my policy (hey I’m a former bureaucrat) was “Whenever you’re ready. Oh, I might nicely take the initiative once in awhile – as he smiled – but it’s totally your call”. And his actions have matched his words. He’s ready to be exclusive; he’s off match; it’s me who moves a little slower. He’s cool with that but he’s really stepping up. 

  20. 20
    Akay

    I will play the bad guy here. Besides I believe I have significant number of data points to make some conclusions rather than anecdotal evidence. I had high-3 digit figures of sexual partners, ranging from conservative ladies to professionals, before being married happily to my wife.

    I am a very analytic person, and some of my relationships were also experiments to at least have some hypothesis tested in a more controlled setting. You may call me a psycho, maybe… I was pretty sure back then that it is statistically unlikely that I am going to meet the lady I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. If you don’t take a scientific approach all you will get is “I think this, I think that”. Just bunch of opinions. There are 7 billion people on this planet. Roughly half is the other gender, and perhaps 25% of that is in your age range. Even if you narrow it down with bunch of criteria you will see that the number of people you need to meet to make an optimal decision is in the range of millions. Based on the total number of days your heart will beat you should actually keep the tempo.

    Why early sex is important? Contrary to what EMK claims, sex should not be delayed in figuring out if s/he is the right person for you, because no matter what people say this is the ultimate yes/no indicator. I have seen religious couples who had no premarital sex and spent their lives in misery when they figured out that they had no sexual compatibility.

    Most of the time, it took me a few minutes whether the girl is for me or not. If not, I would date her anyhow just to have sex. I am not willing to starve myself sexually. That’s why many women are disappointed when the guy is there just for sex. It is quite unlikely number-wise that the man you met is for you. You are searching 1 in millions. For some reason it is believed that spending time with somebody to get to know better or delaying sex will make the person right for you. It won’t. Pragmatic men will keep you in their sexual portfolio. I wouldn’t mind having the boring 3rd 4th date, if the lady is pretty and I had nothing better to do over the weekend, if I would get into her pants.

    As I said I also had experiments. I made a few ladies, who told me that they would like to take things slow, wait deliberately very long time to see what the response would be. Guess what? They got extremely frustrated. Some of them called me “gay”. The best part is to dump them when they think the sex is finally coming. I agree it is cruel, but it works both ways. They asked for slow they got their slow.

    So if you think that investing in N number of dates will make a person right for you. You are wrong. Number N doesn’t make the person right, but it may give you more time to bend your mind enough to fit the person into something s/he is not.

    After hundreds of encounters and 6 different countries I found the person. It wasn’t easy but it was worth it. All I did was to follow the science of statistics. Not the number of dates.

    1. 20.1
      Jenn

      Akay, 
      Delaying sex helps people to focus on who they are as people. It helps people to figure out whether or not they are compatible in terms of a relationship. Sex complicates things more when you have it early because unlike for guys, women are much more likely to develop feelings for the person with whom they are having it. No amount of time spent with a person will “make them right for you”. You are right about that – but delaying sex with them helps us women to see that more easily and to get out sooner when we realize that we’re wasting our time. Women can’t separate their feelings as easily as men can. You can have sex with many women and not develop attachments emotionally – most women don’t have that capability. 

      1. 20.1.1
        beth

         Point of fact, the emotional part of MEN’s brains become extremely active during sex while the emotional part of WOMEN’s brains show zero activity during orgasm. 
        While it’s possible the part controlling emotions in a woman’s brain may have a lot of activity  during sex (similar to men’s) then suddenly shut off during orgasm. It’s highly unlikely and doesn’t really make sense.
        Thus, it’s extremely plausible that
        1. Women actually don’t become attached as a result of sex but due to other factors.
        2. Men are statistically more likely to become emotionally attached as a result of sex.
         
         

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          That makes perfect sense – except for what we observe here in reality.

  21. 21
    SparklingEmerald

    Akay @20 – The purpose of “waiting” for women (and these days that usually means any point after date 1) is not to try to become attracted to a man they are NOT attracted to, but to evaluate if the man really wants HER of if he just wants SEX. To try and figure out if the guy has made his 2 second judgement that she is not “girlfriend worthy”, but will date her just to hump her and dump her. In other words, the point of waiting is to weed out guys LIKE YOU. Not 100% foolproof, but it probably does save some heartache down the road.

  22. 22
    Danaris

    I think the headline for the original post should have been Why Women Should Make Themselves Wait for Sex if they want long term relationships. The reason to wait isn’t just so the man can qualify as woman as a girlfriend, it’s also so that the woman can qualify a man as a boyfriend. In my mind if the interaction between a man and a woman is a profile on a dating site, a couple of emails, and a couple of telephone charts, neither the woman nor the man really know each other by date 1, 2, or 3. Instead of being annoyed that men need time to determine if a woman is right for a long term relationship, women should do the same — take time to learn about the man’s character and what makes him tick before deciding if HE is long term relationship material. So, waiting isn’t just to keep a woman from getting hurt or used. At least that’s how I see it.

    1. 22.1
      henriette

      Agreed!  It’s a win/win situation.

  23. 23
    Akay

    @SparklingEmerald

    Unfortunately you are wrong. The only men you will weed out with this strategy are amateurs. Trust me we, men, have evolved. We know that you are playing the number game. I used the schedule several dates per day to fulfill my quota. Every date we collect more data about you and we will appeal to you better in the next date. More dates just mean you are walking into a trap.I have better strategies for you. If you are definitely not into fulfilling your sexual needs use your gut on the first date. Abort immediately if you cannot say “this guy is very impressive”. Many women try the next dates out of desperation. As I said pros will tune their approach with new data and your weaknesses. Second hint is that we try to keep the dates short as we know you are playing the number game. Dinner, movie, a night walk is not good for us. I try to have a short dinner with one woman, then a movie with the other in the same night. Unfortunately ideas presented in this site are a few generations old. It is a totally different game now.

    1. 23.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      You’re basically weeding yourself out by being a impatient, cheap and selfish. Sounds like my strategy is working just fine.

  24. 24
    SparklingEmerald

    Akay @ 23 – I don’t know why you said “If you are definitely not into fulfilling your sexual needs use your gut on the first date.”. My sexual needs are multi-dimensional and can be satisfied when there is a heart & mind connection. You make it sound like every man on the planet is a selfish bastard preying on women’s emotions & weaknesses to trick them into thinking there is more than just sex. I came to Evan’s blog looking for help getting back into dating and relationships after nearly 25 years of being married. Reading blog entries from guys like you, make me think I should just forget it, because why would I want to associate with such selfish conniving jerks ? Evan seems like the exception rather than rule, and he is taken. His advice seems to be geared to finding the relationship oriented guy, but I am beginning to think it is like trying to find a four leaf clover.

    I’ve weeded out the booty callers, perhaps they are just “amateurs”, but I think my gut serves me pretty well. Short infrequent dates, such as the strategy you describe above, is one of the main reasons I say “next”.

    I did say my method wasn’t 100% foolproof, but luckily, I haven’t run into any ‘pros” yet.

  25. 25
    Dora

    It beats me – How you ,some, women could be so narrow minded and honestly -stupid..? Why hitting on Evan time and time again over something he NEVER said or meant…
    Evan is Absolutely RIGHT in what he is saying – is simple – is black or white. And he is the White one,the light,the help,the confidence,the future and all.
    Thank you Evan!!! Thank you for being there and thank you for all you do and say,because is the RIGHT thing.As to the ones who slam on you about things never meant or said – e,well -ignore them,do not get offense, you do not need to defend yourself,because you are absolutely right and because you can never make everyone happy.!!!
    Is so irritating to me to read all that Di-sec-ting of every coma Evan use and try to find the bad,black meaning that is not there..uuhhhhh..If you do not like it – do not read it,do not do it- simple. Why wasting everyones elses time to read your crap,women…??!!!
     

  26. 26
    AllHeart

    While I wish things were different, it truly is best if a woman waits to have sex.

    There are other options around this. Simply find men you do not want to consider for a serious relationship, and vice versa (everyone should be on the same page), and sleep with them. Then date the men you want to have relationships with, and wait to have sex with them. It’s not *fair* that men easily use women for sex and at the same time dismiss them for sex as well, but you can find ways around it.

    Unfortunately, we still live in a world where men don’t have much honor when it comes to how they treat women in regards to sex. Our world doesn’t place any expectations on men to control themselves sexually. It’s basically a free-for-all of male fantasy and desire that even today, women must conform to in some ways. Naturally, this makes things easy for men. They don’t have to take responsibility for themselves when they can make women be the ones to take the responsibility. Personally, for me, nothing is more attractive then men that are both discriminating in heart and body when it comes to the female gender.

    On top of all that, men have allowed sex to be a barometer of their worth. Which is another big reason, and one that needs to be explored, about why men will use women sexually to feed their egos. Although, it’s really a false sense of self.

    So while I agree with Evan’s advice here, and think this is one of the best posts I’ve seen, I’m not going to turn a blind eye to what should be changed between men an women. And I will advise women to use their own tools around such things such as simply finding men to sleep with while they date the men they really want to be with. Until men are ready to be more fair about the whole thing.

    Men need to take more pride and responsibility with their own bodies. They need to be more discriminating about who they let sexually into their lives. I’m not looking to be with a man who I have to be his gatekeeper. But until that day, don’t sleep with the men who you want to be in a committed relationship with.

  27. 27
    Rocks

    Hi Evan, to your point below:
    [The fact that there are women who think that they HAVE to put out because OTHER women put out is as much of a problem as “slut shaming”. I’m giving those women who DON’T want to put out a script on how to message it, in a confident and effective fashion. That is MY point – even if it’s not the original video’s point.]

    In my opinion t’s not an internal expectation that a woman SHOULD put out because other women (her competitors) are putting out; instead, in my *extensive* field experience, I’ve found if you DON’T put out guys just move on to those who WILL put out. In Neverneverland, then the woman would just wait until a guy comes along who will respect her boundaries and the sexual relationship would progress when both parties are ready, but as the saying goes about the needle in the haystack…

    1. 27.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Nope. It ain’t Neverland. If a guy can’t respect your decision to make him hold out for a few weeks until you know each other better, he’s not your guy. Plain and simple. The ones who move on are – by definition – not that into you or not husband material. So there’s no point in worrying about them. Almost all of my clients follow my directive to screen out guys who want sex without commitment and almost all of them find guys who are willing to wait for this reasonable amount of time. Why would they wait? Because they LIKE you and it’s a small price to pay for what they get in return.

      1. 27.1.1
        Lynn (the other one!)

        Hi Evan, 
        I’ve been ‘sexclusive’ using your advice from the blog, WHD, and FTOO. Getting more skilled at it, I think. Certainly much more comfortable about being clear about the boundary and not feeling offended when men push for sex. Thank you for that. 
        Last night was yet another opportunity, first one in awhile, and mostly now I’m curious and amused by the responses and really ducking around the core issue. “I want to invest in an LTR with you so once we have sex I’ll delete my profile.” and “If we don’t have sex then you won’t see me again, no use having a relationship” and “What is this silliness? What did you go on a dating site for anyway? What am I supposed to do with this? (pointing to his obvious erection)”.  On second date, 2 days after meeting and a great first date where he was a total gentleman.  
        Yeah, that’s the way to my heart! It’s not even worth feeling shocked or perturbed by.
        I feel like writing a blog post called “Your erection is not my responsibility”. Next!

        1. Lynn (the other one!)

          p.s. And to save me any more trouble, this morning he sent me a pissy email about how he’d been unable to sleep all night and he wouldn’t be seeing me again. No kidding.
          Evan, I’ve learned to examine my own behavior and see what I can learn from it and if there are any patterns. What I’m starting to notice is that some men seem to mistake warm and welcoming (basically following your advice to be a great date) for an ‘now open for sex’ sign hung on me. I feel kinda sad about that. Are most women so cold and unresponsive that I really stand out so much? I want to say, don’t take my warmth and welcome too personally, I’m this way with everyone. 
           

  28. 28
    AllHeart

    Hi Rocks – I’ve had guys leave me because I didn’t put out the second *they* wanted it. And I’ve had guys  date me, enjoy me, get to know me, as we built emotional intimacy before we slept together. 
    Guess which group appreciates women more? Duh! The group of men that knows that building a relationship with a woman is more then sex. The group of men that know and value a woman beyond sex. Men that truly know how to value women show it in their actions.
    Guess which guys I’m grateful for? Both. First group of guys showed me who they were. So did the second. Guess who I had more respect for? You’re a smart guy, I’m sure you can figure it out.
    If you are ditching a lady because other women out there will give you sex, you can bet your cute little silverdollar bottom that they will be happy to see you go. Now you might be thinking, “Her lose, I’m going to go bang a woman that will let me.” But here is the secret…she doesn’t think it’s her lose at all. She’s happy to see you go. You’re not a “catch” to her. You’re a user. 
    In dating, it takes a long time sometimes before a man is willing to be commited to just you. A man wants to get to know you before he makes that kind of commitment. Guess what? Alot of women want to wait before we make a sexual commitment. 
    You know what’s so screwy about dating now-a-days? Ultimately most people date to find “that special someone”. Yet they jump into bed before they develop the foundation of the relationship. You know what happens when you got no foundation? Your house sinks. 

  29. 29
    Rocks

    Hi Evan,
    Thank you for your reply.  I don’t disagree with any of your points, however, what I’m saying is I’ve tried that strategy — it is the strategy I believe in and feel most comfortable with — however the net result was going for THREE.WHOLE.YEARS. without penetration. I attracted many men, was sexual and communicated my boundaries and the rationale for those boundaries. The answers I invariably got were “smell ya later” or “why does it have to be so defined, can’t we just do it and see what happens from there” or “I’d love to be your fuck buddy”. Um, No.
    In that time I saw many friends couple off, with men who waited or didn’t wait for them (ie they had sex right away). Soooo?
    So. What I’ve decided is to do is be a bad-ass at life motherfucker and come what may, or may not, at least I’ve swung for the fences. Unfortunately that also means a lot of no fucking around ;-(
    @AllHeart: I’m a female. Also agree with all of your points.

  30. 30
    Marie

    @Rocks – just because you’ve had extensive field experience doesn’t mean you’re a good dater.  Quantity does not equal quality in the relationship world.  If you’re going through a lot of men and are still not finding the supposed needle in a haystack you should re-evaluate your approach.  You may very well be attracting the same wrong kind of guys over and over again because clearly it’s pretty common for quality men to wait.  I’ve seen that over and over again.  The fact that you have not experienced this just tells me that something in your approach is not sending out the right signals to attract quality men who respect women’s boundaries.  It’s you, not them.

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