Why Are Women More Negative About Dating Than Men?


If you read the comments on this blog regularly, you can probably draw some false conclusions about dating.

Men are pigs. Men are liars. Men are flakes. Men are commitmentphobes. Men are selfish. Men are abusive. Men only want sex. Men are irresponsible.

As a man who’s none of these things – and don’t associate with other such men –   I take great umbrage at these consistent accusations about what’s wrong with guys. It’s not that there are no men that are like this, but rather that there are so many men who aren’t like this as to render this “discussion” about what’s wrong with guys moot.

My friend, Moxie, a prominent dating blogger and fellow truth-teller, agrees with me. As a 40-year-old woman, she’s been through her share of heartbreak, but when she steps back and takes an objective look at the dating behaviors of women, 35-45, she sees something else entirely. Men are pretty even-keeled about the ups and downs of dating. Women, on the other hand, are extremely negative.

Says Moxie, “They don’t write articles about the dearth of “good” women. They don’t blog about their love/sex lives. They don’t bemoan their bad dates on Twitter or Facebook. They have nothing to prove. They don’t defend their choice to stay single. They don’t have disclaimers or requirements beyond “Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass.”

Yep, that sounds about right.

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

So what is it that makes women more negative about the dating process than men?

If I were to tender a guess, it’s for a few reasons:

1. The biological imperative of childbearing. That ticking clock gets louder and creates an undue sense of pressure to not “waste time” on the wrong men.

2. Oxytocin. It’s biologically more difficult for women to have unattached sex without emotion and bonding. Thus, women get hurt by passionate flings more than men.

3. Societal expectations. I think there’s a ton of reinforcement from women and women’s magazines that one should be married with children. Men aren’t as consumed by relationships, in general.

4. Communication styles. Men aren’t encouraged to talk about their feelings, so even if they are lonely and pining for a relationship, you won’t hear them complain or rail on the opposite sex as much. There are certainly a lot fewer male dating bloggers, relationship columnists, and dating coaches (apart from the pick-up artist crowd).

5. Expectations. I think this is the big one. Men understand that rejection is part of the process. We ask for numbers, get turned down. Write to women online, get turned down. Lean in for the first kiss, get turned down. At a certain point, we realize that this is just how the world works. You win some, you lose some. I don’t think most women are as inured to failure as men – which makes the failures all the more intolerable, leads to prolonged dating hiatuses, and proclamations that there are “no good men out there”.

And if you’ve been reading this and bristling at Moxie’s observation that perhaps women are more negative about dating than men, consider this:

I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

I don’t think it’s because women are better than men. I think it’s because women are more vocal about male shortcomings.

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  1. 1

    There are alot of negative men out there.   Just look at Tom Leykis and his fan base. There are blogs that are anti single mom and they can be brutal.   There are forums where the guys post women’s match profiles and enjoy tearing apart these women.   

    I find this behavior disturbing and for that reason alone I will not use dating websites.   I don’t want my profile posted somewhere and I’m not interested in being pursued for sex because that is the only thing single moms are good for.

    On the flip side – I would agree women are in general more negative about dating and negative about men. I used to beextremely anti-male because that was the way I was raised.   To this day my mother insists men are dumb and useless.   I have counter argued with her in many occasion and she will not open her eyes to the possibilty that their are a lot of great men in the world.

    1. 1.1

      Yeah except you leave out that most of what Leykis says about relationships are true, there’s zero benefit for a guy.   Also, you may personally be a fine woman, but its also true that there’s also zero benefit for a guy to date a single mom I’m sorry.

      1. 1.1.1

        Except, ya know, he loves that single mom.

      2. 1.1.2

        If there was no benefit (or no hope for benefit) then it wouldn’t be happening.

        My experience would cause me to agree that men tend to sacrifice a lot more for companionship than women on the whole, and many attractive women practically get paid (non-explicitly, usually) for mutual affection and companionship, which men don’t enjoy as frequently. That definitely makes me understand your apparent bitterness toward the unfairness between the sexes in the quest for companionship, affection, and validation of one’s value as a partner, but not being clear about these things doesn’t help others understand our feelings. There are a lot of hurt feelings between the sexes on both sides about a wide variety of shortcomings in our individual histories of companionship, but expressing those feelings in a knee-jerk reaction of demonization and belittlement of one group or another when it doesn’t represent the truth is only going to exacerbate that issue in society.

        I’m not exactly sure why you’re so down on single moms in particular.

        I am a little negative about dating. I’m 26, I’ve moved a lot, I try very hard to be virtuous, I spend almost all my time trying to develop my business and improve my economic situation, and it takes me years to develop companionship with a girl/woman after moving to a new city. I pretty much don’t even care about having sex anymore, I just want a woman to talk to, but it just seems difficult to find someone who isn’t afraid to meet a man they haven’t been in a class or job or group of friends with for enough months/years to trust/respect him. I started a general contracting company to make more money since part time college and full time work wasn’t taking me anywhere fast and have one male employee who also just moved here. It’s hard to meet people and I’m lonely.

  2. 2

    Actually, I HAVE heard more than one man claim that there are no good women out there, but I think those guys are probably (hopefully) in the minority.  

    It does make sense that there is more desperation/time pressure on the parts of women who feel they MUST do the marriage/children thing by a certain age. Too bad that the intense negativity is exactly the opposite of what they need to do in order to attract the right man.

    In my experience, a lot of the really negative women are those who constantly have bad experiences, but never look to themselves to change anything about the men they feel attracted to, or the way they’re handling dating and relationships.  

    Sure, there are some real jerks out there, but the majority of men I’ve met my whole life have been pretty decent, and a lot of them are great. If you’re only dating the low-quality guys, you’re doing something wrong.  

  3. 3

    Evan, your own male commenters on this blog disprove the point of this entry.

    I am not going to embarrass any male individual commenters  by listing their screen names, but:

    1.  You write: ‘I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.’  Not  so long ago, a number of guys were posting to several of your entries  about how spoiled and entitled all women are. Several who  didn’t say “all women” in  general would  instead  target  “Western women” or “American women,” and then recommend getting women from Russia or the third world. Surely you remember these. They’ve cropped up numerous times here, most recently just a few weeks ago.  

    2. Your friend Moxie writes: “They don’t bemoan their bad dates on Twitter or Facebook. They have nothing to prove. They don’t defend their choice to stay single.” I  can’t speak for what these guys write on Twitter or Facebook,  but on your page, these men HAVE dished about bad dates. But I don’t see why that is such a bad thing in the first place. Moreover, at least one guy has defended his choice to stay single. I’ve had some debates with that very guy on your blog, but on this topic, I respect his choice as I would the choice of anyone to stay single, male or female.

    3. Your friend Moxie writes that men only want: ““Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass.”‘ Believe it or not, I think some MEN here would object to Moxie’s characterization of all that men want from women – many of our decent and sympathetic  male commenters.

    I’m sorry – I’m sure you meant well, but I don’t think this particular entry is well-justified.  Let’s not even get into the “biological imperative of childbearing”…

    1. 3.1

      I found it interesting that he protested that not all men were interested foremost in sex, yet “please enjoy giving head” was listed first on the the list of requests.

  4. 4

    Why are women more negative about dating than men? The question should be: why not? Are men even aware of what we have to go through?? Men are shallow (how many times have I heard ”If men could only date supermodels they would”). If you’re not a blonde 5’10 Victoria’s Secret supermodel, you don’t get a chance. As a short brunette, I know what it’s like to not get any attention… And what about cheating?? Guys cheat so much and so shamelessly it’s scary. I recently saw Amber Rose’s interview on Wendy Williams Show and Kirstie Alley’s interview on Ellen and it surprised how both of them just don’t trust men after being heart-broken so many times. Maybe if guys weren’t the jerks they are and if most of them were really as good as Evan says they are, women wouldn’t complain. Just sayin’.

    1. 4.1

      What nonsense….

      Women HATE short men. I can send you enough links of women who say NO SHORT MEN… to crash this servers bandwith…but in the meantime this should keep you busy.

      https://twitter.com/heightismxposed. Really? Consider suicide?

      You don’t see men saying if you aren’t a 5’10 supermodel kill yourself. For the men that do want them, they have money status and power. For everyone one man you find that wants one…I’ll find you 100 women that hate short men.  

        And what about cheating?? Guys cheat so much and so shamelessly it’s scary.

      Do you know that in today’s post female liberation movement WOMEN are the cheaters? Or should I bring in more links…  

      Maybe if guys weren’t the jerks they are and if most of them were really as good as Evan says they are, women wouldn’t complain. Just sayin’.

      MAYBE if women would sat they want a NICE GUY and actually respect and honor him instead of going for the asshole and jerk they WOULD.

      NICE GUYS see that being loving and responsible IS NOT what you women respond to like you should…so they know they will get a better reaction when they shed their nice guy husk and become the ones with the upper hand…you made your bed…now sleep in it.  

      1. 4.1.1

        I can tell you stuff about ”žnice guys“: some are genuinely nice and others don’t differ much from those “jerks” you resent so much – they only act nice to get into pants of a woman, and if their fake niceness gets them nowhere, they turn it into worldwide conspiracy of women against nice guys. This type of men is most likely to turn into the “ones with upper hand”, who like to preach on women how they shoulda-woulda done this and that at school / early 20s and how they deserve to suffer for not dating “nice guys” back then.
        Yes, women date jerks, so what? Its a part of the learning process. You rarely know whats right before you experienced wrong. Yet once again so called ”žnice guys“ make it all about them and their bruised egos, without consideration that they don‘t really want a woman who is attracted to men who treat her bad (as its a major red flag for her inner issues).
        Women actually don’t want bad guys, they want a kind man with an edge, but the bad guys give an illusion of that, cause what they indeed have is confidence in what they do, and that makes them attractive.  Thats the thing most nice guys have to learn, not the shitty treatment of women.
        Women hate short men? Preferences for apples doesnt mean I hate avocados, if you get the point. So if you are short and women hate you, I‘d guess its because of your hateful attitude, not your height.

        1. Scooter

          You’re joking, right Laura?

          He’s not using hyperbole.   The hate for short men is very real, and it occurs without any interaction with said men.   Seriously.. click on that link Yureon provided, and take a gander.

          However, I suspect you already know this, and are just trying to avoid the “elephant in the room”, because it conflicts with your disdain for men, in general.

      2. 4.1.2

        Good post Yureon.   I wish there was a Like or Vote button.

    2. 4.2

      C’mon Samantha, I think men and women have their own troubles in life. Btw I’m a petite brunette and I get lots of male attention–even though I’m not as beautiful as I used to be. It’s nonsense that guys only like such a narrow definition of hotness. I think women beat themselves up over our looks much more than guys do.

      Also, there are plenty of nice guys around. Seriously they aren’t a rarity!  

    3. 4.3
      Isaac Williams

      Its because you’ve been attracted to the wrong men. You’re probably attracted to jerks, the badboy type. To lots of women, goodmen or nice guys are boring and unattractive, so you wont give them the slightest of chance.

    4. 4.4

      using your standards I would be considered a very attractive female slightly shorter than a model but I meet most of the other criteria.    I get attention from men when I walk into a room but I’ve been cheated on a lot and so have many other very attractive successful women.   I hold a doctorate degree and have a great job so I’m not stupid.   In all but one of my serious relationship the men were cheating on me with women that were average or less than average looking.   Please know that looks don’t keep jerks away actually sometimes they attract more jerks.   And while many men in theory may want the Victoria’s Secret model to sleep with for awhile and have her on his arm, most don’t want her to marry or be serious with.   She makes him insecure.

    5. 4.5
      Hold Up

      Amber Rose looks like a man & Kirstie Alley looks like Honney Boo Boo’s extra large aunt.


      Instead of moaning about their plight on the Wendy Williams shoe I have a 4 step process either of them can use to get a man:


      1) eat salads/ exercise. If you can’t lose weight go to a doctor and remember: there are no fat vegans.

      2) dress normal–if you don’t know how normal women dress–turn on a soap opera during the day and dress like women from your age group (if you are 15-27 then watch shows on Freeform or the CW.)

      3) makeover: A) get a modern hairstyle (see #2 for how to pick it for your age group) B) go to the MAC/ Gueralan counter and learn modern makeup techniques C) get to a plastic surgeon and get your breasts, tummy, chin, and nose done if they are not perfect & if you are over 25 get Botox.

      4) develop your personality: A) find a hobby that a large number of normal single sober men do in groups like: road bicycling, fly fishing, skiing/ surfing, ham radio, sailing. . . Take lessons, join groups, and get involved. B)   learn 3 good quick jokes that are appropriate in any environment and tell those jokes randomly as an icebreaker C) learn to cook something that is sort of exotic and seems hard but that most men love–so you can invite a man over to your place on the third date. I make the best Stromboli in the world and it only took me cooking it about 20 times to be able to say that.

      1. 4.5.1

        Don’t know if you were only talking about Kirsty Ally or all women in general, but – 1) OK, this works if you don’t have a medical problem/thyroid issue/PCOS, or not on some type of steroid for autoimmune disease.   If you have any of these issues, eating salad won’t do much.   2)dress normal? what does that even mean?   Most women are at work when these shows are on and have better things to do than tape it to watch later, and have enough sense not to take fashion cues from a fake pretentious show.   3)A&B – OK these make sense.    c)this costs $ that most women don’t have and the effects only last for so long.   Botox – you have to go multiple times a year, year after year.   I see plenty of imperfect women that did not have anything done that have no trouble finding a man.   4 makes sense, as long as you’re joining things you’re interested in, not just to snag a man.

        1. No Name To Give

          Who can afford Guerlain and Mac?

  5. 5

    Men don’t need to be vocal about women’s shortcomings in dating because it’s already embedded in our society, and you see it everyday in newspapers, on TV, in porn, politics, everywhere you look there is a negative charge against women. Women are constantly sized up by their appearance. Michelle Obama has a law degree from Harvard and the only thing that media and news pundits talk about is whether or not to give her latest outfit a thumbs up or down.
    I would also venture to say that if everywhere you turn women are talking about how awful men are and how horrible dating is, maybe there’s something to it, if that many people are complaining about the same thing. But what happens is women’s complaints about men and relationships get poo pooed as not being important or we’re told men are rational and we’re being irrational. And if a woman comes along and agrees with what men have been saying, everything that the rest of the group has been saying and complaining about gets thrown out the window as not being important.
    I don’t believe all men are bad, but you have to take into consideration that many women have dealt with really horrible relationships, and I’m not just talking about getting dumped, I’m talking about the really horrible things like rape and abuse, much of these acts being perpetrated by the ones who are often called “the good guys”. All of this shapes a woman’s dating experience and it comes out in the way many of us express our concerns and frustrations about men and dating. I wish that women could detach from relationships as easily as some men do, but that’s not the way it is, we hold on and stew until we’re over it. But instead of allowing us the space to go through that process, we’re punished and told we’re wrong for it.
    So now you have an entire group of women who want to be loved and in committed partnership before all of their eggs expire, on top of all of the other aforementioned issues. It’s complicated and frustrating and most of us are just looking for a beacon of light to say things are going to work out, just relax and enjoy your life until love comes.

    1. 5.1

      Women are constantly sized up by their appearance. Michelle Obama has a law degree from Harvard and the only thing that media and news pundits talk about is whether or not to give her latest outfit a thumbs up or down.
      Do not misunderstand this: Preoccupation with women’s appearance and wardrobe choices comes from women, not the media, men, or other source. What you see in magazines is purely a reflection of what women want to see and read about. Women have always subscribed to trivialities like this, and media caters to it because it is what sells. Women are utterly preoccupied with women, always have been, and always will be, whether it is to admire or to criticize (mostly the latter).

    2. 5.2

      HAHA and it’s women judging the first ladies taste…not men. Women are your own worst enemy.

      So now you have an entire group of women who want to be loved and in committed partnership before all of their eggs expire, on top of all of the other aforementioned issues.  

      These same women should have kept that in mind when they tore the nice guys heart out accepted his kindness and threw it back in his face when she dated MR Brad Pitt.  

  6. 6

    I mostly agree with the assessment here and I would also throw in the fact that women are mentally more socially-oriented than men.   Other hormonal influences such as estrogen make women more sensitive and vulnerable in relationships than say testosterone.
    I think there have also been some shifting social mores in the past 40 or so years which have   created cognitive dissonance surrounding women’s expectations for marriage.   In the past (my parent’s generation), women could assume with some certainty that if they married and had children with a man that she could count on him staying married to her for the rest of his life.   Now, this is no longer an accurate assumption and I think this creates more vulnerability around dating and marriage issues.  
    As a 41-year-old single mother, I agree that dating healthy, compatible men can seem like a difficult prospect.   It does seem like you are judged as the bottom of the proverbial barrel.   Chances are that women in the 35-45 category have had more disappointments than a younger person and therefore are more likely to be cynical, less trusting and possibly still angry.   The key for me to avoid feeling negative has been to take myself out of the barrel.   In other words, online dating wasn’t working so I explored other avenues for meeting people and I am happy with where that journey has taken me.   I also have tried to cultivate gratitude and service in my life, which helps me from focusing on the glass half empty and remembering that it is half (and more) full on the vast majority of days.

    1. 6.1

      Another thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of men on dating sites who have children and don’t want anymore but at the same time want a younger woman!

  7. 7

    Sorry, EMK, but while your bog is directed towards women, I have read many incredibly negative comments here from male posters. I think that complaining about the opposite sex for men is still considered whiny and unmanly. Men don’t like to admit they are having trouble with women and need help.  
    And while I haven’t necessarily heard that “there are no good women out there”, I’ve certainly heard,” there are no good American women out there”, and men should look for more submissive women from other, usually more disadvantaged, countries. I am not seeing women, despite their complaints, rushing to other countries to seek out foreign men.
    I do agree with you that women are often more vocal and open when it comes to ranting about the opposite sex, but just give men a forum (like this one) to do the same, and you’ll hear plenty of negatives, and plenty of stereotypes. I’ve been amazed at how many men have posted that any woman over thirty is yesterday’s news, that a woman’s place is in the home raising babies (so it’s not just coming from women’s mags), “advice” from the PUA crowd that focuses on using and discarding women, and so on.

    1. 7.1
      Evan Marc Katz


      You’re conflating two different things. You’re saying that you don’t like men’s preferences in women. The fact that they like younger, subservient, and easy, for example. I’m not defending their point of view, but it’s different than them saying that women suck, there are no good women, they’re giving up on dating, and consistently ranting about it.

      This is not to say that there are no men like that at all, but rather that the more gender-based complaints from women about men. Sure enough, some women are already enforcing this stereotype that men are the problem. Sigh.

      That’s because you date men. If you dated women, they would be the ones breaking your heart.

      In other words, I think the dating game gives equal opportunity for heartbreak but that women seem to have overall worse impressions of the opposite sex.

      Do you disagree with that assertion?

      1. 7.1.1

        Actually I disagree with your assertion from the plain and simple fact that are men saying there are “no good women out there”   BECAUSE their definition of a good woman is ” younger, subservient and easy”?

        Because if the majority of men’s definition of what a “good woman is” then the world is in worse shape than I thought and aliens should blow us off the planet.   All these men going outside the country to get it are looking for maids, not partners.   You get what you put into a relationship.   Women are objectified and the expectation is that they serve the man…in what ever way that is, and therefore that is pure entitlement and laziness on the part of the man.    And in no way does this let the gold digging woman off the hook either.   I know MANY women  who are trained by their mothers to be gold diggers in today’s society so they do date older men and play the part then take his money and dump him for a younger hot man their own age.   then the man is hurt.   That is FAKE and Abusive.   Just as is objectification of women.   So then well what do we all expect of each other, especially if we keep perpetuating this stupid myth of value vs being a human.   Get to know a person regardless of age, be friends with them and if you can see that friendship lasting for life (with some chemistry – no doubt we date for the sex part and that IS important) but lasting love comes from a partnership where you have each others back.   Hate to say this but kids and family should NOT play part into that.   Its about the relationship between the two of you and that should be MOST important.   Kids grow up and move out and perpetuate what they see in the relationship in the home.   And YOU and your Significant other  are left with each other.   Better make sure you REALLY like each other MORE than anything else and honor that.   Just sayin….

      2. 7.1.2

        Evan maybe women are more negative about men because since the invention of oral contraception. Men think that most women are sexually liberated and so they behave like kids in a sweet shop where all the candy is free!

  8. 8
    Sad Bitch

    I was used for money by a man who was full of shit. Very few men and women seem to have integrity. Maybe that was always the case. I would say though that men are very simple and mostly stupid when it comes to relationships. In fact I would say in my experience they need a good coach.

  9. 9
    Karl R

    Christina said: (#2)
    “I HAVE heard more than one man claim that there are no good women out there, but I think those guys are probably (hopefully) in the minority.”

    I have also heard multiple men say this. They are in the minority.

    And these are also the men who have unreasonable expectations. They asked three women out. They were turned down all three times. They’re about ready to give up.

    The majority realize that that’s a normal batting average. But if you refuse to play the game, you never win.

    Samatha said: (#3)
    “Are men even aware of what we have to go through??”

    Are you aware of what men go through?

    That’s a rhetorical question, Samatha. Based on the rest of what you wrote, it’s  completely  obvious that you have less understanding of men than Evan has (or I have) about women.

    You rage about how men don’t understand your point of view (something you have no power to change). Other women (and men) do their best to educate themselves so they better understand the opposite sex’s point of view (something which they have the power to do).

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    The courage to change the things I can,
    And the wisdom to know the difference.

    We’ve heard this so often that it has become trite. We no longer listen to what the words mean.

    You’re ranting about the things you can’t change.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “I would also venture to say that if everywhere you turn women are talking about how awful men are and how horrible dating is, maybe there’s something to it, if that many people are complaining about the same thing.”

    Dating is rough on everyone. Does it get better when you complain about how horrible it is?

    Most men/women will be a poor match as a couple. They may be decent people, but they’re awful partners. Do they somehow become better matches when you complain about them?

    Let me describe a hypothetical man to you:
    You hear him say, “Every woman I date is either conceited, a complete flake, or a psychotic nutcase. Every time I finish a date, I want to shoot myself, shoot my date, or both.”

    Do you want to date this man?

    He doesn’t sound pleasant. He doesn’t sound happy. He doesn’t even sound safe. Any halfway-decent woman knows she has better options.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “we hold on and stew until we’re over it. But instead of allowing us the space to go through that process, we’re punished and told we’re wrong for it”

    Smart men vent their frustrations privately. Less successful men vent their frustrations on a first date, then wonder why she doesn’t want a second date.

    Trenia said: (#4)
    “most of us are just looking for a beacon of light to say things are going to work out, just relax and enjoy your life until love comes.”

    If I believed that, I’d still be playing video games every night and waiting for love to come.

    Dating takes a bit more effort. Change the things you can. That’s what empowers you.

  10. 10

    EMK #9
    I’m saying that men complain about women all the time; she isn’t young enough, subservient enough, didn’t have sex soon enough, or whatever it is. What are these complaints that you’re referring to, if not gender-based? What’s the difference if a man is saying that all women over 30 or all American women suck?
    As far as Moxie’s quote, They don’t have disclaimers or requirements beyond ‘Please enjoy giving head, be able to pay your bills, take good care of yourself and don’t be a pain in the ass'”, I think that might be a tad simplistic for many men. At least I hope so.
    We still live in a patriarchal culture that favors white men, so no, I’m not surprised that women complain more.
    What Trenia #5 said.

  11. 11

    I disagree with a couple of the comments.   We are on the internet.   If you don’t think that a misogynistic jerk who just wants to rile up a bunk of women would find a site that offers dating advice to strong, smart, successful women an inviting target, you are burying your head in the sand.   Of course there are male commentors making ridiculously ugly statements.   Based on the grammar of some of them, I would guess they are not American.   Based on some of the inflammatory comments of a couple of others, I would guess they are just your run of the mill asses.   They make up a very small portion of the male population as a whole.   We really can’t base our opinions of all men based upon a few bitter men that are looking to cause trouble.   What about the men who comment with well though out opinions?   The ones not trying to cause trouble or tick off every woman he comes across but is instead presenting a man’s point of view?   Do we just forget them?  
    I am a short, 37 year old single mom with a particularly nasty relationship behind me.   My ex-husband was abusive, my divorce was incredibly horrible, and I haven’t received a dime in child support since August of 2009.   If any woman can be bitter and disappointed, I think I qualify.   Yet, I don’t judge all men by my ex.   I still assume most men are good and decent.   I don’t have a problem getting a date.   And I don’t have to deal with a bunch of men who think the only thing I’m good for is sex.   Mostly because I put on a smile, keep positive, and kick the jerks to the curb once they exhibit the truly bad traits.   My reward for all of that has been that I have been in a relationship with a terrific man who makes me feel loved and appreciated for almost a year now.   We don’t have to date someone we are repulsed by, or that has horrible habits, or that treats us like garbage.   We just have to be truly open to meeting him, let him show us why he’s a great catch, and show him why we’re a great catch too.

  12. 12

    I’ve often heard the phrase, “there are no good men out there”. I’ve never heard the phrase,”there are no good women out there”.

    No, but I’ve heard the phrase uttered from the mouths of many men ” women are crazy, psycho bitches….”    

    I can’t tell you the amount of men on online dating sites that comment when talking with  me on the phone,  about how normal I seem, and feel the need to mention that I don’t sound crazy.  Seems every woman is crazy but me!

    Stereotypes are  stereotypes for a reason. There is a lot of truth in them,  which is why they live on  in both genders.

    1. 12.1
      That itch Cray

      I sell tires for a living.

      About 1 in 10 of our customers are there because someone slashed their tires.

      It is always a woman that did the tire slashing and sometimes she even spray painted a note on the car to let the man know it was her.


      I am not saying all women are crazy but those of us that sell tires appreciate your business.

      1. 12.1.1

        My exes, ex wife got his car keyed by her.   This was after he cheated on her for two years, hit her, ignored her, gave her the silent treatment and refused to admit he was a cheating sack of shit.

        Yeah, that tends to make women crazy.   I’ve never heard of a woman doing ‘crazy’ things until pushed right to the limit with no recourse. Men tend to do shitty things for years and when he realises the jig is up – he simply leaves.   She is left with a whole lot anger and indignation from what she put up with and he ‘doesn’t want to hear it’….   So I guess you should also appreciate cheating, arsholes who make women crazy?

        1. Jeff

          “This was after he cheated on her for two years, hit her, ignored her, gave her the silent treatment and refused to admit he was a cheating sack of shit.”

          This *is* the underlying social problem with online dating. It’s not about the women vs the men or vice versa. It’s about self esteem, and more importantly, self respect, on EACH side of the sexual fence. Why would anyone continue in a relationship for TWO YEARS while being treated like this? Please don’t try and pretend that this all happened in the last 20 minutes of the relationship.

          The truth is that “online culture” has destroyed so much morale within the human social construct that the average online romantic bond doesn’t feel “right” to those seeking as much unless their ego perceives the comfort of a threat free attraction relevance. Subconsciously, online daters routinely seek relationship security via the most tragic of all lowest common denominator representations, namely the low self esteem of their prospective partners. Nearly any intelligent expression of an individual’s healthy sense of self esteem, and their ego based identity, are perceived by online mate seekers as being threateningly dangerous forms of narcissism. Unbridled mass communication has saw a new and thoroughly failure prone level of mass self destructive ignorance. This online socially induced ignorance merely serves to program those who routinely participate within the confines of it’s electronic corral to crave their own extinction. Freud, and Jung, are fast being replaced within this new internet derived online social construct by Doctor Frankenstein and no one seems the wiser. That is until as is underlined in the comment that I responded to above, we find ourselves literally defending our own willful acceptance of our personal torture and destruction.

          When attempting to educate oneself online, it’s best to avoid social media bias, and pandered information based on blogged non-accelerating readership relativity. The whole notion of what is: “it’s always the “other’s” fault”, or really any form of intolerance based monotypic positioning, merely serves to condition common enmity to bolster strength in readership numbers. Like Tom Leykis (AKA ENTERTAINERS) for instance, who BTW, *IS* most definitely wrong more often than not, are one such example. How can anyone with a brain slightly larger than a reptile’s take what such people have to say as being the un-adult-e-rated truth? If the truthful information that you seek is being “blogged” online, or vocally on the talk show radio circuit for that matter, I suggest remembering the following anachronism concerning what is most commonly found to be “B.L.O.G.G.E.D.” information. Namely: Believed Lies Online Generally Garner Educational Disinformation. You wanna know whatever it is you want to KNOW? Take the time and energy that’s required to get off your keister and go directly to the men and women that do KNOW, and not your average convenient schmo on the internet searching for strength in their readership subscription numbers. You can always find someone that will willfully agree with your own ignorance. Especially if they get paid for doing so. Be Well!

  13. 13

    PS Viva la difference 🙂

  14. 14

    EXCELLENT points, sthrnphoenix(#12).   I agree with you 100%.   If we look for jerks, we will find them. If we look for good men, we will find them.   Period.

  15. 15

    Ruby 11: agreed. I have to say, I’m not sure what the point of this article was. It seems deliberately and artificially divisive, making false dichotomies between men and women. And Moxie’s comments are just flippant; they don’t really add anything to the argument.

    The truth of the matter is, some people are positive and some people are negative; it doesn’t split along gender lines. This blog and its readers are proof of that.

  16. 16

    I’ve seen this article before and I definitely agree with it… I think many women today price themselves out of the market OR they have a Huuugeee list for the men they date and don’t consider whether they themselves can provide any of those things.

    The other end of the spectrum is women who have such low self-esteem and are so effed in the head that they believe they don’t deserve good things and thus, stay with losers.  

      What Ruby (#7) said about men complaning there are no good American women is also true to an extent. I’m an American women but I’ve been to a lot of others countries in Europe and have traveled to the Caribbean, Argentina and Israel and well.. women in other countries just don’t face the same pressures that we do and thus are so obsessed with “achieving” and doing it all or being it all. They’re a lot less…. umm shall we say neurotic.  

    Here in the U.S., it seems that women are generally split into two: too much self-esteem and expectations or too little. *Sigh*  

  17. 17

    As a man who spends a lot of time reading, writing, and talking about dating and relationships, I see plenty of evidence that bitching and moaning is a two way street. It’s just that far fewer men are broadcasting their crap through dating blogs and dating forums, other than PUA sites, some of which are filled with obnoxious.  
    What I find interesting about these kinds of posts is that they are basically a set up. If you disagree, and you are a member of the group being attacked, then it’s used as evidence in support of the original argument. And of you a member of the group being upheld, you could say something that disproves the argument, but you will be simply dismissed as an “individual bad apple.” Or an “exception.”
    Frankly, dating isn’t that easy these days for a lot of reasons. And the majority of “good people” go through periods of complaining, feeling horribly negative about the opposite sex, and the rest. I actually doubt that many of us could honestly say we haven’t been through periods like this, even the most confident and healthy amongst us.

  18. 18

    Jewel #14:   Totally agree.   I’ve heard so many men describe their exes as “psycho bitches.”   It’s a big red flag.   Rarely is a relationship breakup that simple.   Really, they had no part in it, it was all her fault because she was a psycho bitch?   

    When I’m reading an online profile and it says “NO DRAMA!!” (and it’s always in all caps with multiple exclamation points) I move along to the next one.   I would guess, conservatively, that 50% of the men’s profiles I read flat out say NO DRAMA or NO GAME PLAYERS or something similar.   And yeah, I’ve read other women’s profiles and lots of them say something like “NO LIARS, CHEATERS OR GAME PLAYERS” The negativity is so unattractive, no matter which sex it’s coming from.   

  19. 19

    Expectations — I Think EMK hit on the head with that one — two of my closest girlfriends — one is 42, the other is 44, have put themselves on these 2+ year dating hiatus because of heartbreak, disappointment, lack of good prospects, etc. And me (a guy) I just move on — the cost of doing business. Sure, there are flakes and siocipaths and dick teasers and attention vampire suckers but then there are awesome people I met I end up being buddies with (actually both of the two listed above)

    I never say (or have heard) “There are no good women out there” because we see our guy’s friends wives or girlfriends…they did it….

  20. 20

    @ Ruby #11
    You are missing the point of the article.   A casual glance at an online dating website at men’s headlines I very much doubt we’ll see the complaints you deem common such as “only subservient women apply” and “are all the easy women taken?” No doubt there will be a few general complaints along the lines of “normal only please!”
    However, MANY women openly advertise their dating frustrations on these very sites which they want to get dates…which seems counterproductive to me.
    It’s not that men don’t complain about their dating experiences. They do. It’s that on the whole, they just aren’t nearly as loud about it in public forums as women.

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