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My second question is about saying no/rejecting people. I hate it, and I’m terrible at it! I know what I am supposed to do – spit it out, be direct – but I really, really wish there was a less uncomfortable way to do it (men have it easy, all they have to do is not call). I feel like I need some formal practice – I would totally sign up for a workshop that was nothing but 2 hours straight of saying, “no, thank you, it was nice to meet you, I know we had a great chat about X, but the chemistry isn’t there for me and I don’t want a second date,” over and over until the cringy awkwardness was washed out of it. Do such workshops exist? (Yes, I’ve looked – no luck so far.) If not, any suggestions on overcoming my extreme internal resistance to being so blunt?
Thanks for any suggestions you can offer! —Erin
High-class problems, Erin. High-class problems.
And you totally came to the right guy to answer them.
Really, I hate to toot my own horn about my embarrassingly vast online dating experience, but, well, TOOT TOOT!
So your cup runneth over, eh?
There’s no dating without heartbreak, any more than there’s swimming without getting wet.
You want to act with integrity and be nice, but not hurt anybody’s feelings.
Join the crowd. Most people, men and women, have no interest in hurting anyone passively or actively. The problem is that there’s usually going to be one person who is more invested than the other person. And this power imbalance means that broken hearts are par for the course. Thus, there’s no dating without heartbreak, any more than there’s swimming without getting wet.
So for the first question, you have three things you can do more effectively.
First, you can curb the flow of incoming responses by either deleting your photos or hiding your profile. That way, you can deal with only the existing guys in a timely and fair manner. If you’re communicating with 7-10 decent guys in your inbox, that will usually result in about 2 dates. If one of the dates doesn’t pan out, you can either promote guys from the minor leagues, or reactivate your photos/profile to get more incoming traffic.
Second, you need to be better at screening. Finding the One Online has an entire CD that describes how to flirt with men in a way that keeps their attention and slows them down to a pace you’re comfortable with. If you find that online dating has overtaken your life and you have no control of your own schedule, you’re doing it wrong. Really. Learn to screen guys better and make email and phone into a fun challenge for them and you can have as many or as few dates a week as you want.
If you find that online dating has overtaken your life and you have no control of your own schedule, you’re doing it wrong. Really.
Finally, if you’re excited about two guys who you’ve gone on two dates with, and you want to tell the other 10 what’s up, your approach is actually the right one. You can probably finesse the wording a little bit:
Dear Adam,
It’s been really great getting to know you, but I have to tell you the truth: I started to see a guy and things are getting a little more serious. So I’m going to hide my profile on Match.com for now and see where things go. If they don’t work out — which is always a possibility — I hope I can contact you again. In the meantime, best of luck with your search.
Warmest wishes,
Erin
Men are so unaccustomed to getting treated with this level of honesty and respect, they will love you for it, and you will absolutely be able to go back to them in the future — even if they were, technically, your “second choice”
As for your second query, you’re making it much more complicated than it needs to be.
The night after a boring date that doesn’t inspire you to go out again, you just fire off an email. You may notice that it sounds very similar to the one you read ten seconds ago.
Dear Adam,
I had a nice time last night and really appreciate you treating me to Applebees, followed by the Disney On Ice; it was extremely generous of you.
However, I don’t feel the necessary “click” to continue to move things forward with our relationship. You’re a great guy and I’m glad I had the chance to get to know you. I’m sure you’re going to make some girl really happy one day. Best of luck and warmest wishes,
Erin
Tada!
It’s not a negotiation; it’s a declaration.
You don’t have to explain why you don’t like him. You don’t have to promise to stay in touch as friends. You don’t have to do anything, except give him a slightly diluted version of the truth, so you don’t hurt his feelings when you reject him.
Sure, he can press you on WHY you didn’t feel it for him. Sure, he can write you a note that says that he thinks you’re a bitch and that you’ll die old alone. But that has nothing to do with you. You can rest easy, knowing that you did the classy thing, and that there’s nothing else that you can do to make it go down any easier.
After you do this a few dozen times, it becomes pretty natural, I assure you.
Cindym7878 says
When I was actively online, I had the same situation. I would keep my profile active though because I didn’t want the guys I was getting to know, to think I was getting to serious. But any new interest would get a response that I am getting to know someone and if it didn’t work out, I would drop them an email and if they were still available and interested, we could go from there. So many guys did respect that because they said a lot of women don’t even respond.
When I was getting to know a few guys and narrowed it down to one, boy sometimes when I told a guy I was going to date the other and see where it goes, some had gotten so mad! I knew then that I wasn’t going to bother with them again because they obviously had a quick temper!
I do agree with Evan, especially when it comes to the email after the date. It is much safer than trying to be nice about in person. I’ve had some guys get very angry. Some just don’t take rejection well. I think it is because they are so lonely and want it to work with someone.
I have also made some friends because they were nice guys, but the “chemistry” wasn’t there. It’s just the way it goes. Not everyone likes everyone and it doesn’t mean the person is a loser, just didn’t work out and you get back out there!
Happy Dating!
Sari says
Thanks, Evan! You just made my day easier!
david says
One way to soften the “2nd choice / runner up” blow is to throw in that the guy you are focused on contacted you earlier / before — that way, a guy just feels HE could have been that guy — he’s not less than, — he got in a few more dates, more time with you, etc.
And to leave the door open doesn’t seem so bad esp. if you guys legitimately hit it off and are cool….
And the guy whop reacts badly to Evan’s first e-mail -the-timings-off-but-lets-stay-in-touch — well, clearly you made the right choice….
AllenB says
Evan, heartfelt thanks from one man who uses dating sites. Your woman readers have no idea of the dilemma men face when follow-up messages are met with silence or positive feedback that only has politeness behind it.
Hiding the profile once the dance card is full is something I do all the time. It is easy to do and undo. (Women take note: hiding or deleting a profile is easy to undo and should not be taken as a message he is into you unless you hear that from him. Ask.)
A direct “I enjoyed your company, but I don’t believe romance is in the cards for us” is painless to hear for any but the most insecure person. If someone gives you a hard time after that, block them. That is what blocking is for. Silence or the polite “I had fun” with no information to discourage is one recipe for him to send more messages. If you don’t want more contact with him, don’t do these things. Be direct. He is thinking “Did she see my last message?” or “She still has not written back. Is she really busy this week, so should I remind her?” The additional unwanted messages make her uncomfortable until he figures out she isn’t just busy but actually is uninterested. This is a waste of energy for both people.
Evan, post your write up at every major dating site. This will be a service to both genders and will get some free advertising.
Lance2012 says
After a date, some communicaton of disinterest is of course required. But I don’t think any response is required after a man’s first email, and I think that is what the original question was about. As a guy on Match, I have found that no response is the rule not the exception, I actually find it slightly annoying when I get a ‘not interested now’ written or programed response, because I have to log in to read it.
Match should have some ‘mail box full’ option that would communicate to new contacts that the mail box of that profile is full and is not accepting new contacts at this time, but it would still allow the woman to continue communicating with her existing contacts. But then Men on Match would learn that a good percentage of the online profiles of the more desirable women are perpetually ‘mailbox full’, so that is probably not going to happen.
Michael17 says
I agree with AllenB #4. And as a guy, I appreciate your posting this woman’s question, EMK, because it gives us some insight as to what goes on in the minds of women and why (to be blunt) many of them seem to act so rude.
Ladies, you have no idea how disrespectful you come across to us when you decide to just not get back to us at all–after we have gone through all the effort (time AND money) for the date and for your sake. Yes, it is viewed as our role as men to reach out to you first, to ask you out, and to plan AND pay for the first date, but I feel that it is YOUR role to courteously get back to the guy if you met up with him and you weren’t feeling it. After all we did, you could at least do THAT, don’t you agree. I appreciate Erin’s letter which says that you don’t get back to the guy in these situations because you really don’t know how, but I don’t think that’s an acceptable excuse.
If you’re not interested, send the email after the date and be done with it.
I also agree with Lance #5 that you don’t owe a response to every “first email” that you get. If you aren’t interested, I would rather just not hear back from you than get some white lie about how you’re “seeing someone and wants to see where it goes”, or (!) how you’d want someone taller, better-looking, whatever. If you could be interested but you aren’t in a position to pursue, an email a few weeks later if and when your schedule clears and just explain that you were really busy when you got his email.
Angie says
Hey,
I think this is great advice from Evan. I just wanted to add a quick additional note. I have a friend in your situation who feels bad about not wanting to go out with someone a second time.
She was using the “You seem great, but I think we’d be better as friends” line for a while, and was shocked when the guys reached out to hang out again. She thought she had rejected them! This is my opinion, but any positive feedback that men see, they will usually take, especially if they were interested in continuing dating. (no offense, men)
Whatever you do, be clear in your intentions. You just said you have limited time, so just do what Evan said. That is the kindest thing you can do!
david says
@ angie — “She was using the “You seem great, but I think we’d be better as friends” line for a while, and was shocked when the guys reached out to hang out again. ”
Your friend (and others) should only use that if they mean it — don’t use it as a rejection salve
amy says
When i was dating, I found men didn’t like a rejection letter, a lot of them got angry, so I just stopped sending them — polite ones, no less. Men on this blog seem to prefer them, but I think in this day and age, Angie, first of all, if you get too many letters, just don’t respond till your ready! I think that’s better than saying you’ll let someone know when you’re done with your first choice.
Michael17 says
amy #9–
It depends what the rejection letter is for.
If a guy takes you on a first date and asks for a second, then even if you aren’t interested, I feel that you owe him a response.
If a guy sends you a “first email” and you’re not interested, then no response required IMO. I don’t need to hear a white lie about how you’re focusing on someone else, and I definitely don’t need to hear that you think I’m too short or whatever. If you could be but you are too busy, then save the email and respond if/when you are free. Just put a sentence saying that you were really busy, but you remembered his email, and that now is the first chance you have to get back to him.
Goldie says
If I was really and truly too busy, and if a guy’s first email seemed really nice, or if we’d already exchanged a number of emails, but hadn’t gotten to that first date yet, then I used to write something along the lines of, “It just so happened that I am already seeing an X number of people, whom I met before I first heard from you. You sound like a great guy and it wouldn’t be fair to you if I tried to cram you into my schedule along with all those other people. Can we take a rain check?” Everyone seemed pretty cool with that.
As for the “let’s be friends”, call me old-fashioned, but to me it sounds a lot like an offer to be friends. If I didn’t want to see the person again, and he contacted me after the first date wanting to meet again, I used to tell him something like “sorry, it isn’t going to work”. Only backfired a couple of times.
Angie says
@david 8
AGREED! That’s what I told her!
Still-Looking says
Online Dating Etiquette –
1. No response required to an initial email.
2. If you don’t get a response to an initial email, it’s a sign! Wait a few months before trying again.
3. If you get a “thanks but no thanks” response, no further response required or desired.
4. If you have corresponded/chatted/talked several times and the person disappears, it’s most likely a sign! Follow-up once. No more. The reason doesn’t matter.
5. Guys – if not interested in a second date then no kissing at the end of the first date. A simple “It was nice to meet you, hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend” or something similar should get the message across. Then don’t call. If she contacts you the next day then a polite “no chemistry” response is appreciated.
6. Ladies – Same rules as for the guys. Since the guys are more likely than women to follow-up with a request for a second date and men tend to be more persistent, be ready with a “no chemistry” response. No response at all is likely to lead to numerous texts and voice mail messages from some guys. Nip it in the bud 🙂
It all boils down to being polite and not sending mixed messages.
SnowdropExplodes says
I definitely appreciate a clear “no thanks” email if she’s chosen someone else – no explanation required, I just like to know where I stand so I can close the door emotionally on it.
As for having a full dance card – my last relationship, I sent a first email and I heard nothing from her for the next three months, when out of the blue she wrote back asking to know more; I guess she figured (correctly) that since my profile was still active, I was still seeking. It worked pretty well for me because it showed me that she’d remembered me and been interested enough to get back, and to keep me on the backburner for that long. I couldn’t say how most guys would respond to that, but I think it’s a tactic worth considering if there’s some “late arrivals” who are just too good to ignore completely. (Although, of course, if they’re that good they may be off the market by the time you get around to them.)
Susan says
1. Although there is no time frame for responding to online dating emails, you can wait a few days or a week to do so. A lot do people just don’t respond at all. Jerky, yes, but you are under no obligation.
2. Not “feeling chemistry” is seriously immature. Chemistry takes time to build. What you are looking for is infatuation. That’s not a predicatable indicator for a relationship. There are times I have (reluctantly )gone on a second date and actually liked the guy more the second time out. All of the social awkwardness was out of the way. We were more relaxed.
3. Don’t worry – all guys say they would like to see you again. Most of the time they never call again. Don’t worry about your frank analysis.
Em says
Please give me your problem.
Tina says
I’ve been on both sides.
This man who I’m still in love with him just sent me many mixed signals (after I already was in love with him) as “you are a great woman but i’m not ready for a serious relationship right now”, “i can suggest you only my friendship right now”, “it’s me not you”, “i have to fix myself, you are an amazing girl but i doubt women now because of my bad ex girlfriend”, “you’ll see we’ll meet at some point in future” and so on.
And when I told him that I’m obviously such a fool and he has only played with me all the time, he wrote to me a defensive email and of course he suggested me his friendship then. And I have to tell you men – this is so meanly, so foully.
As for me, I do not send signals to men as this man did to me – “you are very attractive”, “i like you very much”, “we have to travel somewhere with my car”, “i really need to write you every day”, “you are something special to me” and many other beautiful lies…
when I’m not interested in some man.
I just write/tell him that I do not feel this way. And he maybe becomes angry with me then but this honesty saves us the time, lies, broken heart.
Goldie says
@ Still Looking #13, love your list!
Can I add one more: at the end of first date, if you do NOT want to do it again, don’t say “let’s do it again”.
AllenB says
@Tina 17.
He likes you. He finds you attractive. He can see how you are the kind of woman he might love if he was not still processing his last relationship. He would like to keep you in his life at some level in case he figures himself out. He is a little attached to you but can’t fully invest in a love relationship with you or anyone until he fixes himself. That is what his words say. These are not mixed signals. These are clear signals from a mixed up man who wants to move on from his last but hasn’t yet.
If you keep him in your life, and pin hopes on your friendship developing into something more someday, that is your choice. If you are kind to him and put energy into him that is your choice. If he receives these gifts graciously and reciprocates because he likes you even though he can’t invest in you, he is being human, not sending signals.
Move on to a man who can give you what you want. Or wait. He might let go of his past someday if you give him the space to do so. It could be next week, three years from now, or never.
Joe says
@ Em #16:
Yeah, this is a problem we should all have, right? 😉
Saint Stephen says
The OP must be fairly attractive. Imagine a man writing and seeking advice from a dating/relationship expert on how to say no to the massive number of women who write to him online. Maybe in our next life (If there was ever one).
Tina says
Thanks AllenB,
I highly appreciate your answer to me!
Deev says
Honestly, I’m at the point of doing exactly what men do – disappear! Why take the time to be polite and courteous and let them down gently, when they don’t bother doing that to women? If it’s only been 1 date, or just chatting via email – it’s not something that either of you are heavily invested in yet, so doesn’t really require an official break up.
NonExist says
I prefer a direct “I’m not interested.”
I do not even need a reason.
No harm no foul.
The first few rejections years ago hurt, but more so because they were vague.
I’ve always been direct myself.
Just simpler that way.
Michael17 says
Deev #23:
(1) Well, I say that if *you* go through the trouble of planning and paying for a first date (which is what men are doing all the time), and if *you* are being proactive as far as calling for a second (men do this too), *then* you have a reasonable expectation to the other person being decent enough to get back to you courteously either way. Until then though…. I’m not trying to be snide here. Have you tried contacting the man after the date yourself? Just as men have the right to contact you, you can do likewise. I will get back to the woman and be straight with her if she were to contact me and let me know that she would like to see me again. If she does not though, and I am not feeling it, then I usually won’t do anything. It might come across as presumptuous of me to write a woman right after the date and say “Hey, just wanted to let you know that I’m not interested” as very often, she wasn’t interested either!
(2) Don’t punish the guy you just saw for “mistakes” that others you went out with made towards you. They’re different guys!
Hakoonamatata says
@ Tina
I can (maybe, at a stretch) understand why AllenB is defending man in question but I don’t understand why you are investing so much energy pursuing someone who is, quite obviously, taking you for granted. Yes, he likes you because you’re great. Yes, he thinks you’re attractive because you are. Does he think you’re the one? Absolutely not. He keeps you around because you’re good for his ego. It doesn’t take much energy to send a text but it takes a lot more energy to follow up with action. And there is none. You are worth much more than being some man’s back up plan. If he has not made you the object of his affection then he does not deserve being yours.
Finding ways to justify his ‘behavior’ will not make him change. Walking away with your head held high and your self respect intact will more than likely change how he sees you.
‘If a man says he doesn’t know what he wants, he doesn’t want what he has right now’. If he wanted you, he would have stored his baggage in the overhead locker, not carry it around and ask you to ‘keep an eye on this for me’
Off my soap box now. It’s so frustrating to see my sister go through this same scenario.
sees you.
Tina says
Hey Hakoonamatata, thank you very much too!
I invested so much time and feelings and everything into this man because this is the way I am, when I’m i love with somebody. It hurts as hell now but I hope the time will cure me.
I just wanted this level of honesty and respect Evan talks into this article.
AllenB says
@ Hakoonamatata and @ Tina
It isn’t about justification or not.. It is about making a conscious choice. If he really is sending “mixed signals” then he is probably confused rather than evil and selfish. Someone confused is NOT good relationship material and waiting on them is an ineffective strategy, as Evan would say. They might never be deconfused, and until they are they won’t even know if you are their type. So you wait and maybe both changes fall your way, or maybe not, or maybe they never come at all.
Evan might also say the conscious choice is not so easy when you brain is flooded with chemicals. You won’t be available for anyone else while it is and those feelings center around thoughts of this man. How you interrupt that pattern, is up to you, but if you don’t you have to be at peace with being in the same situation you are now in six months, one year, two years, because you can’t control when you will get clarity from this man. Know what you might be giving up if you keep this up.
I recommend dating other men and keeping in touch with this one if you can do both with equivalent investment. That also means letting him go if you find someone before he gives you clarity..
Oh, and he will take your presence for granted. That is natural too, because of your ever-present availability. You might help him focus through his confusion if he starts to lose your availability, but that is also a long shot.
Tina says
Yes AllenB, I agree that we all have conscious choices and I do not consider myself for a victim or something like that.
As for dating other men, I can not do this in this specific moment of my life because I’m not in position to meet someone else and then give him only empty hopes. I prefer to direct my attention toward other things like study, work, hobbies and this is also a conscious choice. But thank you very much for your opinion!
Mary Jonson says
Nice article. Online dating is sometimes a very difficult thing, but a very useful too. We can meet our destiny online or just make new friends, or have a good time. And boys, they pretend to be funny and interesting but not all of them can actually do this
Kali says
I like David’s response. Saying oh you just missed it by 2 messages sounds like a great way to let them know it’s not them. I must say though, peeing around the bush may not be the best tactic. The guy may need to know what they are doing wrong for the next girl that comes around. Depending on the guy they may appreciate the positive criticism. Try not to make it sound negative but act as though you are trying to help them for future dates.
Katt says
I just hide when im overwhelmed. But, then some men who ive talked to will send ,”what did i do wrong” messages!! Ugh , so insecure that i def lose interest. So, guys stop that one ..
M says
What a problem to have. I cannot imagine being so fortunate. Must be nice.
woodsy says
# 33
You must be a misogynist. You shouldn’t think along these lines.
shane says
Call me crazy, but what kind of man or woman worth anything has so many dates? I certainly wouldn’t give 5 moments of small talk much less a second look to someone who plans to pencil me in for a Tuesday while they spend the rest of their time with God knows how many people.
Dating is for tramps. Commitment is for people of quality.
And don’t give me that nonsense about dating comes before commitment. I just can’t rationalize how managing a deuce biggalow style schedule counts as dating. Sounds like a night out with a few Johns each week.
J says
I had the same problem when dating online. Guys would get really mad if I didn’t respond to their messages, even if it was as generic as a “Hey”. If someone took the time to write out a nice message, in which it was clear they read my profile, and put some thought into it, I would always make time to reply; regardless if I was interested or not. I just don’t understand guys that get mad if I didn’t reply to a “Hi”. You didn’t put any effort in, so why should I?
say that again says
trouble in paradise.
I see a woman running a relationship like a work place with appointments, diaries and bookings.
Problems is the man on the other side is not thinking like that.
I would be the first to drop you just by displaying this behaviour.
Dont want to make appointments for sex when we start dating.
Laine says
Say that again #37 I wouldnt be having sex with you if we were just dating !
CarreyQuotesDeliverHope says
The lack of rules, and the presence of 101 “rules of thumb” make dating in general and specifically online, quite challenging. There have been many valid points made, both by the author and many readers who either share or having differing opinions or experiences than the author. The fact that there are so many variances simply highlights the differences in mentalities from person to person. Even more challenging is understanding the opposite sex’s general take on a situation. In particular, the “I want to be friends” response can completely befuddle a guy. On the surface, it seems like plain English, and in many circumstances, it probably should be understood exactly as it is said/read. However, a great philosopher, Lloyd Christmas (portrayed by Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber), once said and I quote, “So you’re telling me there’s a chance”. The reality (as the author discusses) is both sides rarely share the exact same level of interest. So using the “you’re a great guy, let’s be friends” should really only be used when it’s 100% true. Even then, some guys who are more vested in the possibility of a romantic relationship will accept an offer of friendship only to remain close and see if things can change (“I’m sure I can win her over”). When letting people (especially guys) down, I believe the same advice given to guys about asking women out is pertinent. Be direct and polite. There are many articles explaining to guys the virtue of making your intentions known and being direct when asking a woman out. In contrast, so many women are doing their best to “protect men’s egos” that they’re actually doing more immediate harm by sending mixed signals. Now, there is something to be said for the guy who will get angry at the direct approach; two somethings actually. First, if you weren’t totally sure before he reacted that way, it helps to solidify the decision in your mind, and you can rest easy. Second, I believe in most cases the warning signs are there. Despite the help of many books, magazines and articles that teach men not to say certain things leading up to and on a first date, men can’t help but express themselves. Picking up on these subtle inferences of how they’ve been doing recently in the “market” or how they view relationships should produce some indicators that could make a difference in the decision making process.
Just me says
I am new to reading comments but this one really inspires me. I literally was taking notes three weeks ago so I wouldn’t get confused on Match. I too thought about creating an Excel chart lol. Then I found myself drawn to two guys. The first was less attractive one on one than in his profile. I did a version of the Evan 2 x 2 x 2 and got the guy going on email. Believe it or he blew up unexpectedly when I asked him that he said made him feel like he was in a contest. He said this isn’t an episode of the Bachelor! But yeah it kinda is cause Match.com lol! So I was glad that ended an I went to the other of two. He did exactly what Evan recommended, drove 2.5 hours to take me for a great 3 hour dinner. As he walked me to my car, he asked me out for the second date and I accepted. I could see something happening here but we were getting a bit too familiar texting all day. Today I told him I was going to be very tied up with work and vacation. Looking forward to seeing him when we had that second date after my vacation. Now we both get a break and I saw him back on Match. I was too! If he finds himself comparing others to our fun banter and misses me, he will do that 2nd date and we will both have a blast. If my sense that he was pulling away was more than just things getting too regular too fast on text, we will find out and not have to struggle through a date if it isn’t something we both are excited about. Win win!