How Do I Get Over My “Limiting Belief” That I’m Too Fat to Find Love?

Been listening to your podcasts and I love them! I believe you touched on this topic once before but not really sure. I’ve been online dating for years. I’m not skinny – size 10/12 is what I am now and used to be thinner. I feel as though I have a “limiting belief” that I can’t get married unless I’m to the size I want to be. I have been called too fat to date by a lot of men I’ve met online and it’s soul crushing. And usually it happens after I don’t accept their invitation to just hang out or send naked pics. Do I stop online dating until I get to the size I want to be? Do you have any advice for women like me that aren’t “skinny” about online dating?

Thanks,

Michelle

Thanks for your vulnerability, Michelle. I completely understand where you’re coming from and feel deeply for your predicament. Truth is: there’s always something we can do better.

Men put off marrying until they’ve reached a certain point in their career.

People put off dating because they’re unhappy at work, suffering from an illness, feeling generally depressed, and any other number of common reasons.

And yet, virtually all of these people eventually get married, if they want.

And yet, virtually all of these people eventually get married, if they want.

Your observation that men can be shallow is real.

Your observation that you have more dating options at a size 4 than a size 12 is real.

Your belief that you are “too fat to date” is not real.

You may be too fat for certain men, just as certain men are “too poor” for certain women.

But that’s neither here nor there.

The average man’s income is $50,000. Some women won’t give him the time of day. But many other women will. That man with the average income who puts himself out there to date, eventually ends up being fully loved and accepted by his wife. If he closed up shop and gave up on love until he was a millionaire – because of his limiting belief that women only want rich men – he would not have his beautiful family.

The average woman’s size is 16. Which, by my crude, back-of the envelope math, Michelle, makes you THINNER than the average U.S. citizen. Surprise!

I’d love it if you could feel thin, if you could erase the media images, women’s magazine covers, and nasty comments from cruel men online.

But that’s not within my control.

All I can tell you are the facts:

As of 2013, only 4.6% of women 70 and older had never been married (not accounting for the 1.5% of gay women who couldn’t get married).

So, without any pep talk about societal standards, fat shaming, insecurity and the like, I can say, with great confidence, that if you choose to date as a size 10/12, it is inevitable that you will find someone to love you at your current weight – and even more.

Good luck, my friend.

You can do this.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Gala

    From the practical standpoint, the best way to overcome this belief is to go to a local city hall where they have weddings and observe the size of couples getting married there. The evidence that you can find love at any size, shape and form will be staring you in the  face.

  2. 2
    Kath

    A size 12 is not zaftig. I’ve been fat-shamed by men, including my ex-husband. Since venturing into online dating, I’ve developed a much tougher shell – like when some jackass had the audacity to tell me he would consider dating me if I lost 40 pounds. And this guy was overweight himself! The old me would have crumpled in despair at being insulted. The newer, resilient me told him to EFF OFF. Own and love who you are, whether you’re a size 2 or 20. A real man who is right for you and sees the real you won’t care. Remember the lesson from the movie, “Shallow Hal”. May take time, but there is someone for everybody.

  3. 3
    Clare

    Michelle,

    You don’t need all the men in the world to want to date you… all you need is one man who sees in you exactly what he wants. The ones who consider you “too fat to date” have disqualified themselves right off the bat and need not be considered any further. Personally, I would not want a man who thought that was an appropriate thing to say to a stranger who had never caused you a moment’s trouble.

    If it makes you feel any better, I have several girlfriends who are a size 12 and upwards who have never had trouble finding a boyfriend, and several of whom are happily married.

    As Evan said, you can do this 🙂

  4. 4
    MC

    I remember many years ago, I was 18 and thin. I took ballet class, and we all know how thin ballerinas are… Well, I remember this one girl, the fattest one in the class (I can’t tell her size, but she was really overweight): she was also the happiest. She loved herself exactly the way she was. I had never had a boyfriend in my life back then, and she was a little bit older than me, so when she said “my boyfriend loves every pound of my body” I can tell you jealousy was there! I was younger, much much thinner than her, but she loved herself and she had someone who loved her! Of course, they got married and had at least one daughter. Guess who’s unmarried and childless today? Yes, me.

    And I also remember another girl a few years later, she was also overweight, and she also had a boyfriend who adored her. Yes, these are girls in their 20’s but still… Michelle, let me tell you from this anonymous keyboard: it’s all in your head. I know men who love women that look like you, they exist, yes! You just need to find one, like any of us. Just keep swimming girl, you’ll get there!

    1. 4.1
      Marika

      Listen to All About That Bass – can’t remember the name of the singer – from a few years back. Whenever I danced to that song, my more curvy friends said “nuh, uh, this one is for us”, and proudly shook those booties!

      There’s a line you can use from that song in your dating life .. something about if you’re into size 0 barbie dolls, then move right along! 🙂

      Also remember that it’s only in recent times that thinness has been worshipped. It used to be that curves were the epitome of female beauty.

      1. 4.1.1
        Nissa

        Meghan Trainor sang that

        1. Marika

          That’s it, Nissa. Thanks!

  5. 5
    Rampiance

    This strategy helped me for every size I tried it with ….

    Look at pictures of goddesses (Greek goddesses, Norse, Hindi, whatever turns you on) and find those that match your body type, your curves, your energetic qualities.   Then post these where you can see them and get used to seeing and appreciating their beauty and by correspondence, your own.   Observe how those goddesses hold themselves, and learn how to hold yourself with regal poise and presence.

    I like the song Baby Got Back.  🙂

    1. 5.1
      Emily, the original

      Rampiance,

      I like the song Baby Got Back.

      It’s called a badonkadonk    🙂

    2. 5.2
      Christine

      Lots of people liked Baby Got Back…Sir Mix-A-Lot once said in an interview that song made him so much money that it helped put his child through college.  So lots of people like big butts lol

       

  6. 6
    Lovecoffe

    I’m happily engaged and hang out at the wedding planning Facebook groups. There is a very large number of women in that group who are plus size (there are 50,00+ members in that group) – and they are all engaged and planning their weddings. I’m talking about sizes 16 and larger. So, the weight and size are NOT the show stoppers, apparently!

  7. 7
    Yet Another Guy

    On what planet is a size 10/12 woman too fat to find love?  While I occasionally encounter a size 6, most of the women I meet are a size 10/12 or larger.  Not all size 10/12 women are created equal.  An ample hourglass-shaped 10/12 is quite hot in my book.

    1. 7.1
      Buck25

      On what planet is a size 10/12 women too fat to find love?

      YAG,

      I completely cosign on that! In the age group I usually date in (Baby Boomers), a woman of average height, say 5’4″” to 5’6″, who is a 10/12, is more often than not a woman with a defined waistline and curves in all the right places; if she has a pretty face and dresses well, that easily puts her in the top 10% or better of her age group for visual attractiveness . As one example, I had one exclusive (and intimate) 8 month   relationship with a woman, in her early sixties at the time, 5’5″ and very fit and active. She’s a size 12. Undateable?  FAT??? NO WAY! I’m pretty picky when it comes to attractiveness in the women I date, (I’ve been ripped for that quite a few times here), and I wouldn’t have been dating her in the first place, much less been in a serious relationship with her, if that were the case. I came very close to asking that woman to marry me (she’s still a cherished friend, and still a stunning woman at 65 with a personality to match). I have another friend in the same age group who’s quite a bit larger (about 5’10, and easily a size 18/20) Not exactly my body type, but she has a lovely face, a bright, witty and thoroughly charming persona…and absolutely no shortage of men who find her anything but undateable; her social calendar stays so booked with dates these days that it’s hard to find a chance to meet her for a glass of wine or a cocktail to catch up!

      I’ve got no wish to encourage morbid obesity (that really is unattractive to most men), but unless you’re really, really short (I’m thinking under 5′ here), a 10/12 is a long way from “fat” or “overweight”, much less obese.

      Michelle, if Evan and everyone else will indulge me, I want to give you a pep talk..from a man. I think we owe you ladies a little empathy, from our side, when you’re feeling like you’re struggling online, like so many of us guys often feel like we are. If you want to lose weight, fine, but do it for yourself, not for us. You’ll be much happier that way; accepting and loving yourself, just the way you are, is a key first step to being lovable to someone else.  You may not look like a runway model (few woman can maintain that body image for long and be healthy anyway), but you’re far from being a beached whale, no matter what some jackass online told you. So, do what the rest of us (both genders) who aren’t one of “the beautiful people” do: do what you can, right now, where you are, with what you’ve got! You may not have as many options as they do, but that’s a long way from having none!  DON’T “wait to lose weight”; do it NOW!  First of all, every day when you finish putting on your makeup in the mirror, tell yourself one thing you love about you. I don’t care how deep you have to dig at first, just find one, and say it! Then give yourself a smile, say “Damn, I’m good!”, and go share that smile all day long, every chance you get; you’ll feel happier, you just might make someone’s day, and everyone will wonder what you’re up to, which isn’t a bad thing. You have a beautiful smile? Then flash it! You have pretty hair? Find a flattering style to show it off! You know how to dress in clothes that make the the best of the shape you’re in? Wear them with grace, and confidence! You meet men in the real world too, you know!

      Online dating is tough for almost everyone; so help your odds. Use your best recent pics, and choose them carefully. We guys look for  a full length pic (otherwise we imagine what you’re trying to hide, and what we imagine might be much worse than reality, so show us, wearing the most flattering look you have) . Consider getting some professional photos; a good photographer can make you look your best, with lighting, makeup and your best colors/styles. Be careful with selfies; a bad or too close selfie angle can distort your face, and it only takes one bad photo to make us click “next”; when in doubt, leave it out. Contrary to popular myth, guys (the smart ones anyway) DO read profiles; don’t make yours read like it could have been written by every woman on the planet. Look, you probably can’t out-compete a ten for a man she wants, but your real competitors are all the women in your age group who are close to your own level in looks, and I promise you, you CAN stand out among them. It doesn’t take a full page, either. Show something that makes you different, and special. Maybe it’s how you showed strength and courage in adversity, when most others would have given up. Maybe it’s how you came up with your own unique dream for something you’d like to do. Maybe it’s something you’re uniquely passionate about. Maybe an unusual hobby, or pastime. Maybe it’s just something very funny. Maybe you just have a great sense of humor-fine, showcase that. Show us something, that gives a man one small glimpse into your heart, your soul, your character. You tell one story like that, just two or three sentences worth, and I’ll bet you get the attention of more than one man out there. We  men are often superficial, and shallow, and visual-that’s the way we’re wired…but we do have hearts and minds and feelings, and once in a while, something makes us open them up, just a little, and take a second look…

      You mentioned self-limiting beliefs, Michelle. You know what those are, and mostly they’re lies and half-truths we either got from others, or told ourselves, til we believed in them; and pretty soon our imagination shows us a great big scary fire-breathing dragon we don’t believe we can get past…when all that’s really there, isn’t a dragon at all, just a little bitty lizard, looking for a crack to hide in. As soon as we see that, for what it really is, we walk right past it, and never look back.  People say all sorts of things online, for all sorts of reasons; maybe they’re hurt, maybe they’re angry, frustrated; maybe some are just plain mean, and it’s just too easy to take that out on the feelings of someone we don’t even know and never have to meet. Never mind the critics, never mind the naysayers.They don’t matter; I have never, ever, even once, seen an armchair critic hit a  game winning home run. You actually have to be in the game to do that. You just hang in there, Michelle, because no one else but you gets to decide when or if you are pretty enough, smart enough, charming enough, or anything else enough to give it your best shot. You just put your best self out there, do what you can to grow and improve her, into the best she can be. Until then, just do your best, right now, where you are, with what you’ve got. Men can give up on you, your friends can give up on you, the whole world can give up on you and write you off , say you’re finished; but the game’s not over til it’s over, and nothing is ever hopeless until you give up on yourself, and no one but you, can do that. Now pick up  your bat, and get over to the on deck circle, because I believe you’re next batter up. Oh, and never mind swinging for the fences; just try to put the ball in play, you never know what might happen…

  8. 8
    Elena

    I have been called too fat to date by a lot of men I’ve met online

    What????

    Michelle, just reply that you can lose weight. It’s doable. But they can’t have a brain transplant which they obviously need.

    I was once asked by a guy about my dress size and bra size. I blocked him straight away. There were 6 pictures of me on the profile which is sufficient enough to decide if somebody wants to meet in person or not. My first reaction was to reply by asking about his d.ck size and savings account size but I decided that he is not worth even a split second of my time and blocked him.

    There are a lot of idiots out there. You just need to learn to filter them out and ignore them.

    Good luck in your search!

    1. 8.1
      Emily, the original

      Elena,

      I was once asked by a guy about my dress size and bra size. … My first reaction was to reply by asking about his d.ck size and savings account size but I decided that he is not worth even a split second of my time and blocked him.

      That’s probably the better response, but it could have been fun to write: I’m a size 2, 36DDD, and I will not accept anything under 10 inches.

      1. 8.1.1
        Buck25

        “I’m a size 2, 36DDD, and will not accept anything under 10 inches”

        Wow! Game, set and match! Out of nowhere, Emily with the cross-court drop shot for the win!

        Damn, woman! Yet another priceless zinger! Still LMAO off at a couple you dropped on us in December, and you start off 2018 on the same roll!

        Note to self: Must reboot the old brain, and dial up some fresh snark; I am getting badly out classed!

        1. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          Damn, woman! Yet another priceless zinger! Still LMAO off at a couple you dropped on us in December, and you start off 2018 on the same roll!

          Well, thank you, Mr. Buck. Where have you been? I thought maybe you were trapped under some woman and had ditched your friends on the blog.  🙂

  9. 9
    Stacy

    When did a size 10/12 become fat? Am I the only one baffled by this? And,I find that MOST men that I’ve met actually prefer healthier looking women (as long as they have curves that are proportionate).  I am a size 6 and find that I think that ‘fuller’ looking women are super attractive. Sometimes, I even wish I had more meat on my bones.

    I look around and see all types of people coupled up. I would venture to say to the author that maybe it’s her lack of confidence that gives her more problems than her actual weight.

    1. 9.1
      Emily, the original

      Stacy,

      I look around and see all types of people coupled up. I would venture to say to the author that maybe it’s her lack of confidence that gives her more problems than her actual weight.

      I agree. There are so many different types in the world, and all men don’t like one type. She needs to find the men who like her type. I actually have a male friend who doesn’t find Elizabeth Taylor in her prime attractive. HUH? He said he doesn’t like “short and busty.” Who would turn down Elizabeth Taylor in her prime?

      1. 9.1.1
        Stacy

        Even I won’t turn down Elizabeth in her prime and I’m heterosexual.

        1. Emily, the original

          Stacy,

          Even I won’t turn down Elizabeth in her prime and I’m heterosexual.

          Me, neither.  🙂

          I’m also baffled by the number of men I’ve talked to who would pick a night with Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie. I don’t get it. Jolie would give you the time of your life.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          I’m also baffled by the number of men I’ve talked to who would pick a night with Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie.

          You can add my name to that list. 🙂

        3. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          You can add my name to that list.

          I’m disappointed. Of all the male commenters on this site, I assumed you’d want a challenge.

        4. Buck25

          You can add my name to that list

          Mine too, YAG. I dunno, but with all due respect to Angelina Jolie fans, there’s something about that woman’s face that is not my idea of beauty.

          @Emily

          I’m curious; why is Jennifer Anniston not “a challenge”? That’s waaaaay out of my league….still, as long as we’re fantasizing, what about Kate Winslet, or for us older guys, Sophia Loren or Marilyn Monroe

        5. Emily, the original

          Buck25,

          I’m curious; why is Jennifer Anniston not “a challenge”? That’s waaaaay out of my league….still, as long as we’re fantasizing, what about Kate Winslet, or for us older guys, Sophia Loren or Marilyn Monroe

          This is a fantasy scenario. You don’t have to do anything but show up for the rendezvous. I don’t know much about Kate Winslet, Sophia Loren and Marilyn Monroe are good choices. Saying Doris Day or Mitzi Gaynor (going back to that generation) reveals something much different. Girls-next-door, pleasant choices.

        6. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          I’m disappointed. Of all the male commenters on this site, I assumed you’d want a challenge.

          I am sorry to disappoint you, but Angelina Jolie does not do it for me in the looks department.

        7. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          but Angelina Jolie does not do it for me in the looks department.

          Then who does? I’m expecting an interesting answer.   🙂   Don’t say Ashely Graham. You’ve already mentioned her. And this is a sexual fantasy, not someone to date.

          I just had this conversation with a female friend tonight. We both said Richard Burton. The man had palpable sexual energy. Or Sean Penn. He’s intense.

        8. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily, the original

          Tawny Kitaen gets my vote.   She was smoking hot in the Whitesnake videos, and she still looks hot to me.

        9. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Tawny Kitaen gets my vote.   She was smoking hot in the Whitesnake videos, and she still looks hot to me.

          A good choice. I thought you’d pick a woman who had a little dirty birdy in her.   🙂

          I’m just asking the celebrity crush question for fun, but I think it does reveal something about a person. It’s a fantasy question. It makes no sense to pick out the pleasant, sweet choice.

      2. 9.1.2
        D_M

        Emily, the original,

        They could be as pretty as porcelain dolls, but if there is no junk in that trunk, some men aren’t buying. Some of us like to see you going and coming. “I’d rather eat pasta and drink wine, than be a size 0” ~ Sofia Loren

        1. Emily, the original

          D_M,
          “I’d rather eat pasta and drink wine, than be a size 0” ~ Sofia Loren
          I love Sofia. A traffic-jamming hunk of a woman. She also said sex appeal is 50% of what you have and 50% what they think you have.   🙂

      3. 9.1.3
        Christine

        Emily, that goes to show the cliché there’s a lid for every pot.  I also know guys who would pick Jennifer over Angelina any day, and think Brad’s an idiot.  One of them said Angelina has a very “harsh and masculine edge” that turns him off, while Jennifer seems more warm and accessible.  Another said Angelina seems like a b—-, and again said that Jennifer seems more friendly.  So apparently, warmth also goes a long way, perhaps as far as (or even further than) “hot”.

        As for that Elizabeth Taylor thing…well, you’re on your own figuring that out because I don’t know any guy who would turn her down in her prime.  When I watched “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof” I thought Paul Newman was nuts for turning her down!

         

         

        1. Emily, the original

          Christine,

          I also know guys who would pick Jennifer over Angelina any day, and think Brad’s an idiot.  One of them said Angelina has a very “harsh and masculine edge” that turns him off, while Jennifer seems more warm and accessible.  Another said Angelina seems like a b—-, and again said that Jennifer seems more friendly. 

          Yeah, but I’m not talking about a relationship or dating. Just about a sexual hookup, so warmth isn’t even in the equation. On another note, a celebrity crush reveals a lot. The male friend who doesn’t like Elizabeth Taylor likes Madonna. He’s a passive guy, and I think he wants a woman to take over, but at least his choice is interesting and not vanilla.

    2. 9.2
      Gala

      Size 10/12 may not be “fat” but it certainly isn’t small or petite. It implies a much wider frame and yes some guys will not like that. Heck I am size 4 wet and I’ve been called fat. at the end of the day it is all about proportions, height, and how the weight is distributed. Size alone is pretty meaningless

      1. 9.2.1
        Stacy

        Gala,

        No, it isn’t small or petite but since being small or petite is not the only ideal standard of beauty (well, maybe only to white men) and since like you said, it isn’t fat, then the OP should call bullshyt when anyone calls her that. And yes, it depends on how the weight is distributed. I have known many size 4s who are also ‘skinny fat’ so that can apply to anyone.

        Women who are even bigger than size 10 who comes to my mind are Kate Winslet and Christina Hendricks from Mad Men. And they range from a size between 12 and 14, so even bigger than the OP.

        And anyone who called you fat at size 4 has a warped sense of weight (unless you are massively skinny fat). I am a size 6 and I am constantly told I am ‘tiny’ and would love to gain weight since a fuller woman is more desirable in my culture and it is something embedded in me.

        1. Gala

          All i can say – i like your culture more than mine 🙂 Most white american men prefer skinny, leggy, gals with little to no curves (resembling runway models) – at least most I have come across.

      2. 9.2.2
        Yet Another Guy

        @Gala

        You of all people should know that petite refers to torso and limb length, not dress size.  All women 5’4″ and under are classified as petite.   A woman can be petite and a size 14.

      3. 9.2.3
        Emily, the original

        Stacy,

        Women who are even bigger than size 10 who comes to my mind are Kate Winslet and Christina Hendricks from Mad Men. 

        I think when the cultural conversation talks about voluptuous women, the examples you listed would qualify. Women who are not skinny but have their weight “in the right places.” Neither has rolls anywhere. Even the plus-sized models who have made it big in the last few years simply look like bigger versions of their thinner counterparts.

      4. 9.2.4
        Buck25

        Gala,

        Usually a woman who’s a 10/12 has  a medium to larger bone structure if she’s average height (as in less than 5’7″ or so),  which to my eye is right in proportion to height. I’ve  occasionally encountered a similar shape in a much smaller size  (2/4) usually very petite, (5″ 1″ and under), and with an overall smaller bone structure. These really small-boned women look similar in body proportions to their taller larger-boned counterparts, though their actual weight, measurements and of course clothing size is much smaller. I agree with you; just stating a dress size is pretty meaningless, without reference to height, unless one assumes average height, medium build. Similarly, a taller than average woman, say in the 5’8″-5’10” range with medium to larger bones is likely to be more like a 14/16 if proportioned similarly to her  average 5’5″ 10/12 counterpart. IIRC, in my generation (Baby Boomer) average height for a woman is around 5’4″, where in younger generations it’s around 5’5″ to 5’6″ for Gen X and Gen Y. I’m guessing it’s slightly taller for millennials but don’t know the stats on that.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          @Buck25

          IIRC, in my generation (Baby Boomer) average height for a woman is around 5’4″, where in younger generations it’s around 5’5″ to 5’6″ for Gen X and Gen Y. I’m guessing it’s slightly taller for millennials but don’t know the stats on that.

          Average height is still one of the most overstated measurements in the United States.  According to the CDC, average American female height is still a little under 5’4″ (5’3.7″ to be exact).   Average American male height is 5’9″ (which is why it blows my mind when women state that men below 5’11” or 6’0″ are shorter than average height, as these heights are the 75th and 85th percentiles for male height in the United States).  These figures are for adults aged 20 and over.  Most men and women are fully grown by age 20.

          https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

  10. 10
    Yet Another Guy

    @Elena

    My first reaction was to reply by asking about his d.ck size and savings account size but I decided that he is not worth even a split second of my time and blocked him.

    That is a classic!  I have a female friend whose stock reply when she receives an unsolicited penis photo is “I have never been dryer.” 🙂

  11. 11
    TK

    A good friend of mine is a size 2 and she has received this same message from men online when she refuses to send them naked photos. It’s not about size at all — some men just know our trigger points (i.e. society’s ideal size) as women and exploit them. Yet another reason not to take anything a man says to you online personally, and simply move on to men who do know how to treat you whether it’s online or in-person.

  12. 12
    Michelle

    Most of the crucial points have been well-articulated already, but I’m living proof – I’m size 12/14 and I’m engaged to the hottest guy in the world (well he is to me!) Though my bf and I enjoy a healthy lifestyle together (hikes, the gym, swimming etc) I never obsess about losing weight or feel shy being naked and he LOVES that. Love is about a total package of mental, emotional and physical connection (and the first two definitely take priority in a long-term relationship). If you are open, loving, feel positive about yourself and are fun to be with, there is no doubt that you will find love with the right guy for you one day!

  13. 13
    Suzanne Poole

    I love this conversation.  Thanks so much for bringing it up.

    I’ve been trying to get my head on board to try and put myself out there again.  I’m super comfortable with my body at this point. Could be yes, thinner than present by 12-15 pounds. But I had a concussion last year and I’m pretty happy just being healthy. Coming up on my 63rd next month and on one hand I’m self conscious that I fill out my wardrobe pretty good right now.

    On the other hand, my daughter and younger employees say how admirable I am to them.  And there’s no shortage of male admirers.

    I think I’m in a bit of morning over how I wasted better days on defective men and my fear of being hurt. And risk advertised.  One of my marketing reps said the sweetest things…if you find yourself naked and self critical … remember, all he’s going to be thinking is this is great and what fun is about to be going on.

    We are all overdosed on 24/7 media image.

    Let’s remember to have fun and joy. And as my Grandson says….he’s a poopy head and I don’t want to play with him

    1. 13.1
      Yet Another Guy

      @Suzanne Poole

      One of my marketing reps said the sweetest things…if you find yourself naked and self critical … remember, all he’s going to be thinking is this is great and what fun is about to be going on.

      I concur with your marketing rep’s assessment.  If a man is getting naked with a woman, he is not thinking about her imperfections.

    2. 13.2
      Christine

      I can relate to what you said about mourning wasting your days on defective men.  Sometimes, me and my husband wish we hadn’t wasted so much time on toxic partners before, and met each other sooner.  But, maybe those prior experiences were valuable (if harsh) life lessons that made us better partners for each other than we might have otherwise been.  Not to say we think we’re so perfect now but, better partners than we would have been at a younger age.  That might also be the case for you.  Maybe your better days still lie ahead!

       

  14. 14
    Tron Swanson

    I don’t get involved with overweight women. That said, I prefer curvy women, for chest-related reasons. But my idea of curviness is basically Kate Upton. I’ve had some issues with women and misleading pictures, and they’ve said, “But I thought you liked curvy women!” Too many women don’t realize that, when the average guy says “I prefer women with curves,” he leaves the second half of that preference unspoken: “…who still look great in a bikini.”

    People (men in particular) are often told that we shouldn’t expect to get something that we don’t have ourselves. If we aren’t really hot, we shouldn’t expect to get someone really hot, and so on. Most women ignore this in their own lives–single moms pursuing childless guys, middle-class women pursuing upper-class guys, overweight women pursuing thin guys. (Can you imagine the outrage if a “proud to be curvy” man thought that his weight shouldn’t keep him from getting an athletic, model-thin woman? Fat-pride only goes one way, apparently.) Well, if I were to find a woman exactly like me, most women would say that I was being incredibly unfair. I have zero debt, no kids, I’m not on any medications…and I’m extremely skinny. By what women have told me, it should be reasonable for me to expect this of a woman, since modern relationships are all about assortive mating, now. I’ve actually lowered my standards–I don’t mind a woman that weighs a bit more than me, or is on medication–but I still haven’t lowered them enough, because women get upset when they hear what I’m looking for.

    1. 14.1
      Stacy

      @Tron

      I think Kate Upton is beautiful but where the HELL are her curves? She is straight up and down albeit with a beautiful face but OMG…when I think of ‘curvy’, I think of a significant difference in waist to hip ratio (Marilyn Monroe, Halle Berry, Jennifer Lopez, Raquel Welch, me:)). I guess to each his own.

        1. S.

          I always thought curvy meant front and back.  Might be just me, though.  🙂

        2. Emily, the original

          Yeah, but “curves” implies an hourglass, not having all the sand in one spot.   🙂

        3. Tron Swanson

          Well, I’m a reasonable guy, so I’m willing to settle for a woman who “only” has front curves. I’m just mature like that.

    2. 14.2
      Emily, the original

      Tron,

      By what women have told me, it should be reasonable for me to expect this of a woman, since modern relationships are all about assortive mating, now. 

      Yes, you can reasonably expect someone who brings to the table what you do. That being said, you forgot one key factor: personality. It’s not a slam on you, but a well-adjusted, happy, positive person should expect (and will probably want) the same in a mate.

      1. 14.2.1
        Marika

        And someone with good social skills, friends, a generous spirit and a positive outlook on relationships will likely want same.

        Most of us on here don’t value skinniness and no medications over the multiple drawbacks of superficial men looking only for sex.

      2. 14.2.2
        Tron Swanson

        I’m very flexible on the personality issue. As far as I’m concerned, they don’t have to have one at all! If I were to make a list of the top hundred traits that I want a woman to have–and I wouldn’t do that, I’m much too lazy–personality wouldn’t make the cut.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Thus, reiterating why you are not much of an avatar for what women are looking for in a man.

        2. Tron Swanson

          I don’t ever recall claiming otherwise. Given the amount of rejection I’ve suffered, yes, I’m well aware that I’m not what most women are looking for in a man.

          That said, I am an extreme example of a compromise that all too many men have to make. It’s hard enough for the average guy to find a woman who has the following three traits:

          1. Is willing to have sex with the guy.

          2. Is physically attractive.

          3. Has a good personality.

          #1 is obviously 100% necessary, so it’s usually either #2 or #3 that average men end up compromising on, because we know that we have limitations and won’t be able to get an ideal woman. In my own case, I’ve sacrificed personality, which I was admittedly never that much into in the first place. But I know a number of men who have stayed with women they’re no longer attracted to, because it’s the best they can do.

          My interpretation: both men and women need to learn how to be happy alone, because it’s a way to avoid unhappy relationships.

  15. 15
    Jenn

    I’m super grateful for this message today, so thank you for posting this, Evan. I’ve gone and wasted the last 3 years of my life going through a serious depression, regaining all the weight I once lost and purposely keeping myself hidden from the  dating scene because I was ashamed of my appearance. But I’m going to be 37 this year and like it or not, I have little time left to get married and have my own kids. I’m once again working on overcoming overeating and losing the weight my compulsion has caused. I’m getting back into the gym this week, plus I scheduled two speed dating events. I’m tired of being scared that no one will want me. I’m sick of pretending everything is okay when it isn’t. I know I have no guarantees that I will find love on this earth, but not to try would be a much bigger failure than to try, and not win. The thing that keeps me going now, other than the possibility of finding a good man to marry, is knowing that I could wind up just like my aunt if I don’t do anything right now. My aunt lived with my grandparents her whole life. When my grandmother passed away and left her finally all alone in their apartment, she had no one but the cat she’d adopted for company. She retired a few years before her own death, prior to which my uncle and mother were horrified to find that she’d chosen to live in squalor in the once-beautifully kept apartment my grandmother had meticulously cleaned. I talked with my mother about her after her death, asking why she never went anywhere or did anything. My mother said that perhaps she was happy living such a quiet life. I have my doubts though – living in trash and clutter so deep that she’d had to clear little inroads through the junk doesn’t scream “happy” to me. I decided to do everything in my power to make sure that does not happen to me. God willing, I will be blessed with a husband and family of my own within the next few years. I have to keep that dream alive because it gives me hope. The only other alternative is despair and I’ve certainly had enough of that. So thank you very much again for this timely message!

  16. 16
    JB

    Ahhh yes the “bigger gal can’t find love” debate. Try being a “bigger guy” who’s not tall and or rich and see how that goes in finding love or even a date. I’ve know bigger “John Goodman” “Fred Flintstone” types that tell me all the time they can’t get ONE bigger gal to even email them back. Many of these lovely ladies somehow think that they TOO deserve a slim attractive man. Sadly most bigger gals don’t find bigger men attractive……lol Go figure.

  17. 17
    Jenn

    I would like to point out that if she’s receiving “fat-shaming” messages from men, while I don’t condone their doing that, maybe there’s something about the way she’s going about the online dating process that she could do better. Better vetting of the guys she chooses to talk to is one thing – she could choose to reply to men who have a wider body type range in their preferences. She could choose to only respond to the men who contact her instead of seeking out guys to email herself. That would increase the likelihood of their not insulting her, since they were interested enough to reach out first. And once an email conversation has started, keeping the number of replies down could encourage the guys to ask her to meet in real life, so she doesn’t drag things out and they lose interest.

  18. 18
    MilkyMae

    One limiting belief is that “hanging out” is cheap or disrespectful.  The purpose of old is to meet people who you might like.  Some people don’t know that “just hanging out” means a date on the monkey bars at a local playground.  Many people refer to first online dates as “meetups” and many people don’t like fancy dates(especially not 1st dates) .  If “hanging out” is bad, the just say “I’m not the hang out type, lets meet for drinks or lunch”.  If the guy is worth it, he will have no problem with an upgrade.   In my experience, creepiest guys are the ones who are never willing or able to meet in real life.

  19. 19
    ezamuzed

    Evan, I think it is unfair to label men that prefer woman who are in good physical shape “shallow”. I want a woman who’s appearance generates deep feelings of desire and attraction. The type of woman who when she walks by leaves me breathless. Overweight or curvy woman don’t do it for me personally but I know they do for many men.

    1. 19.1
      Yet Another Guy

      @ezamuzed

      It depends on whether or not a man likes busty women.   When I was in my early twenties, my father asserted that a man who likes busty women has to be prepared to accept that she will more than likely have a little extra on other parts of her body, and if she does not, they are not original equipment. 🙂  My experience has proven his assertion to be true.   Now, there is a difference between having a “little extra” and being fat.  Sadly, most women on dating sites who claim a “little extra” are full-on fat, but so are most women who claim to be “curvy.”  Curvy is a shape, not an amount of extra weight.  Curvy is ample hourglass.  If I had to pick the current gold standard for curvy, it would be Sofia Vergara.

      1. 19.1.1
        ezamused

        I agree with your father. I’m probably a rare dude that does not prefer busty woman.

  20. 20
    Insidious_Sid

    It’s a simple question, but painful to answer:

    Would I date (and sleep with) someone my size?

    If the answer is “no”, then hit the gym, or remain alone and perplexed…

     

     

  21. 21
    Willowandy

    Unnaturally skinny models are not attractive to me, neither are very big curves etc.

    For me a level of fitness (as in ability to go up hills/stairs or walk 10km without panicking) is attractive. If you can do that as a size 12, super. On the other hand if somebody is slim and (“hot”), but “physically lazy”, then that is a turn-off.

     

  22. 22
    Large Marge

    I’m late to the party but I wanted to add my .02.

    I’m fat. We’re not talking a little overweight here, we’re talking morbidly obese. I’m 5’4″ and over 300 pounds. But I still find dates! Yes, as Evan states on his podcasts repeatedly, there’s a (much) narrower pool of candidates for me, but they’re there. I fully recognize most men aren’t attracted to my physically, and I’m ok with that because I only want to go out with the ones who are.

    All of my long-term relationships have come from activities in the real world, not online dating (Meetup and another specialized hobby group I belong to). Keep in mind, by default these men have seen my full body before they asked me out; it’s not like they saw a face pic and were “tricked” into thinking I was thin! The reason the relationships ended had nothing to do with my weight. I think they asked me out because I’m not afraid to be who I am, and own my body with pride.

    Yes, I’ve gotten online dates too, but surprisingly few fat-shaming messages. I suspect that is because I put full-body photos and mention being fat in my profile, essentially taking the power away from the haters. And although none of those have blossomed into romance, I did gain one life-long friend from OKCupid!

    I hope my “testimony” helps you overcome your limiting belief; if I can date despite my size, so can you!

  23. 23
    loubelle

    i hate this fat shaming age we are in. size 10-12 is the right size as long as you feel comfortable. i think thats a great size. we are living in a superficial world especially online dating, some women are constantly in competition with each other to ‘win’ one man lol, its silly. i will never be in competiion with another woman, you know why, because the man im interested in should only care about having me and no one else. If he expects a cat fight hes lost me already. im good looking, look after myself, am hilarious if i do say so myself :-), am a good ‘homemaker’, cook, do all diy, a good mum a good grandma, the list goes on. its about confidence. i lost confidence in my last relationship, was broken emotionally and physically. however after that ended my confidence has returned (i always knew i was pretty amazing anyway lol ;-). do not think u ‘deserve’ any less.. it shows and some men see weakness and use that to their advantage. if they think they wont get away with shenanigans they wont try it ..more than once lol. It is not the men to blame really, it is other women, yes your sisters. they are in competiton with the same sex for the same goal. theres enough men to go round no matter what you think and some nice men at that who will applaud your tenacity and no BS attitude. Its just finding them out. id advise you to join a meetup group where you show up in person to meet people, not to date but just to meet people. then you can show your awesomeness without being behind a dating app. faces have no dimension online. people have to see you laugh, talk, the way you move, interact before they date you, this cant be done online. dating online is superficial sadly, all about looks usually. ignore the men who fat shame, the woman who is a size 4 might be as boring as hell, that aint gonna last is it lol. superficial is superficial does. and any man whos that superficial ‘deserves’ the airhead. next!

  24. 24
    loubelle

    Contd:

    to explain… women are in competition with each other and its them who have conditioned some men into thinking they can have the ‘pick of the crop’. as women we should pull together, no competition over a man by any means, if we all walked away from men that are superficial and expected many admirers and thinks he can take his pick, then they wouldnt act like it lol. think about it. not feminist but common sense.

  25. 25
    loubelle

    contd lol:

    i am also a size 12 and age 45, and ive never had a problem ‘finding’ or ‘getting’ a man. they fall over you if your confident cos they know you wont put up with alot of crap (if they have something about them) :-).  being pretty, thin, big boobs,etc doesnt guarantee you a man, it may guarantee you one who is superficial and who wants that?

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