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According to Dr. Neil Clark Warren, founder of eHarmony, “Bad marriages don’t just happen to bad people. They mostly happen to good people who are not good for each other.”
Amen.
“Attraction and chemistry are easily mistaken for love, but they are far from the same thing,” Warren continues, “Being attracted to someone is immediate and largely subconscious. Staying deeply in love with someone happens gradually and requires conscious decisions, made over and over again, for a lifetime. Too many people choose to get married based on attraction and don’t consider, or have enough perspective to recognize, whether their love can endure.”
He believes that when two people have a relationship built on upon broad-based compatibility, the likelihood of long-term relationship success is much, much greater.
“If we could ever reduce the incidence of marital breakup from 40 to 50 percent of all marriages to single digits,” he concludes, “I suspect it would be one of the greatest accomplishments of our time.”
Read the full article here. What do you think? Do too many people rush to the altar based on passion and ignore their core compatibility issues until it’s too late? How long do you think people should wait before getting married? I say two years minimum, given that the “passion” tends to wear off in 18-24 months, but I’d love to hear your comments below.
Shai says
That’s why marriage should be sooner than 18 – 24 months, and should be based on common values and outlooks on marriage. With that common ground, at least there’s motivation to stay in the relationship rather than jump after 2 years.
E. Foley says
I’ve given a lot of thought to the marriage thing when it comes to my own relationship. I know I *want* to get married. But the technical reasons for getting married don’t apply to me. My boyfriend and I don’t want children. We make equivalent salaries, so there’s no tax benefit to being husband & wife. So the legal & familial reasons for the vow are irrelevant for us. What are the benefits to getting married for us? Dunno. It would more be a statement of commitment than anything else. It wouldn’t change our day-to-day lives or our financial situation.
starthrower68 says
I agree wholeheartedly because I’ve done it. My ex-husband and I were kids when we started dating and we never took a break from each other to decide if we were meant to be together. I think we were both terrified of never finding anyone else, and then after being together for so long, it seemed like the next logical step to take. Now, I don’t completely regret it because one thing we did do right was have 3 amazing kids. After all the pain, anger, and hurt of splitting up healed (at least as much as it can) we’ve developed a good friendship. But now I find myself doing things I should have done in my 20’s (I was married at 23 and a mom at 24) like getting the education I wanted or developing strong non-romantic friendships and spending time with those people as my bff’s have become family. I think this article is spot on, especially when we are very young and don’t have a whole lot of life experience.
Fred says
I hear you, but let me present an alternative scenario. I met the love of my life aged 17, panicked, and felt I could not be tied down so young, and spent the next 15 years involved with exciting women whom I knew were not right for me. I had a lot of fun, but now all that is gone and I am alone. In an ideal world, we would first meet someone serious when we’re in our mid-20s. But no-one can predict that. I say now that, if you meet a good person young, go with it. All that other shallow stuff, you haven’t missed much, frankly.
Brenda says
I had a friend recently marry a man she met online one month after she met. Since the wedding was a few weekends ago, I can only wish them well and I have no idea if they will still be together one year from now.
I don’t see how you could possibly know anyone in one month, especially well enough to marry them. In my experience, it takes at least one year, if not longer, to see the good, the bad and the ugly and to decide if you are compatible.
Honey says
Jake and I were together 5 years before we eloped. We know what our differences are, but we also know we are compatible and willing to work to preserve what we’ve got!
AQ says
“requires conscious decisions, made over and over again, for a lifetime”
THAT is the issue – you have to be a couple, not two singles. Most people lack the focus and skills to negotiate, communicate and make the right decisions.
henriette says
Mmmm… I’d say it’s more that you have to be a couple AS WELL AS two singles. It’s important to maintain your own life, interests, personality when paired up.
Teresa says
Broad based compatibility is a better basis for marriage than c hemistry/lust but still no gurantee that the marriage is going last until death. There are so many factors involved.
I married my ex h at 33 after living together for two years really thought we would last I never considered divorce a possibility. It’s just so difficult to predict my ex h had a mid life crisis of sorts in his late forties. Maybe one should not marry until they are over 50.
helene says
I have to say I think its all a bit of a catch22 situation. “Broad based compatibility” is all very well, but without initial attraction and passion, the relationship will never even get off the ground. But if there IS initial attraction and passion, then notions of “broad based compatibility” fall by the wayside! If you’re deeply attracted to someone you want to be with them, compatibile or not. If you’re NOT deeply attracted to them, you DON’T want to be with them, however “compatible” you are.
We all just have to take out chances. Passion AND compatibility, of course, are the ideal – but we don’t live in an ideal world. You can’t just find a suitable mate to order, at the end of the day you can only choose between the guys who actually ask you out.
I felt passion and compatibility with my second husband – unfortunately, he only felt compatibility. That was fine by him because that was what he was looking for – (he’s not a big fan of passion) but for me it turned out to be soul destroying. I wanted and needed him to feel as passionately about me as I did about him. His lack of passion towards me, and my inability to cope with that , ultimately led to the disintegration of the (othrwise highly compatible) relationship
Christina says
I think this is very likely true. Quite a few people, especially the very young get married long before they’ve established whether or not they’ll be good together in the long rung. And far too many people have very superficial criteria for the one they marry, with attraction being the main driver of the decision.
Far too many get married for other bad reasons, mostly having to do with timing. The old biological clock, “all my friends are getting married,” feeling that you “should” be married by a certain age. I wish I could remember where I saw it, but there was a pretty recent study showing that a majority of married people didn’t marry based on really being in love, they got married because they were ready and their partner was convenient at the time, more than anything else.
diane valenti says
I married a man who I had great compatibility with but not much in the way of chemistry after we had dated for 2 1/2 years. The marriage didn’t last because he changed after he said “I do.” We were still compatible, but there were other issues. My feeling…it’s a matter of luck and no one really knows if it will really stick. You do your best and you hope that your partner will do. But, there are no guarantees.
Jim says
So like most women, you broke your commitment. Why exactly should a man get married again?
Selena says
I have friends who are celebrating their 21st. wedding anniversary today. The interesting thing…they “went together” for 17 years before getting married. They were in their mid-forties when they decided to ‘make it legal’. Didn’t live together until a few months before the marriage when the woman sold her house.
I agree about waiting to marry until the “shine” wears off a bit. At least a year, better two – but one never can tell how long a relationship will last it seems, regardless of how soon one jumps, or how long one waits. 🙂
jack says
This is a hard question to answer, since the right reason for one person may be less legitimate for another.
At core, society needs children to survive, and whether one believes in God or Darwin, the impulse/mandate for children is undeniable for most people.
What is at least as interesting a question is this:
Does our culture tend to reinforce the marriage decision process to a large degree? If people marry for “wrong reasons” more than they used to, are there external cultural forces that encourage this?
I believe yes. Men and women (American ones anyway) used to expect much less from marriage than they expect now. I tend to believe this is a by-product of American consumerism, which pushes people to expect complete satisfaction at all times.
For most of human history, life generally sucked. If you weren’t dying of disease, you were being attacked by barbarians. The problem is that humans judge their happiness in relative terms rather than absolute terms. Life in the US is not too bad at all, even though you can always find someone richer and happier than you are.
The key is to pick a point in your life where you shift away from pure aspiration and learn to become content with your life as you find it. Some call it “settling”, which is an unfortunately pejorative term. I prefer to think of it as having the grace to find contentment with what you have.
Someone has to be average, why not me?
Steve says
EXCELLENT post—I agree 100% with everything you said!! Ultimately, I think we have to stop relating “happiness” to Madison Ave and concentrate on the only things that really endure–the heart and spirit. If we look at marriage within that context you would find so many more successes rather than failures!!
Annie says
Yes I think people marry for the wrong reasons and with the wrong people.
It’s a constant battle between “passion and excitment” and the less exciting but more enduring respect/friendship/love type relationship.
I know which one I prefer 🙂
Mina says
I like the main idea of the article because it encourages seeing that a relationship is something that is built over time (“Staying deeply in love with someone happens gradually and requires conscious decisions, made over and over again, for a lifetime”). However, the “Broad-based compatibility” is not a very precise concept, and it’s easy to say that the partners were not compatible once the marriage did not work out. I have a feeling that there are more profound reasons that explain why people stay happy in marriage: ability and willingness to understand your partner’s point of view, find a balance between personal development and a life as a couple, respect for other person needs, etc. Resuming everything as a question of compatibility doesn’t seem to be informative.
mslove says
Nothing lasts forever.
People evolve & change.
I definitely believe people marry for the wrong reasons & to the wrong people but all of that is experience.
I am glad i have NEVER married any of my ex’s except probably ONE of them.
I could not IMAGINE being with them today because we are two different people with different goals and passions. If I would of married either one of them, we would of had a divorce, AGAIN because people grow apart and change, I would say everyyear.
ITS like business, you BOTH re-invent yourselves AND MAKE IT WORK, or you both are on the path of break up.
Careers change. Moods Change. Looks Change. Emotions Change. EVERYTHING CHANGES AND EVERYBODY CHANGES.
I say-with the experience I have now, FOR ME-I would not date anyone past a year without the relationship moving towards marriage.
I am dating, having fun. When I meet the one that I feel is 80% right for me and I for him, I would marry him within 6-months to a year.
Life is too short. People SHOW their true selves and intentions within that YEAR. Listen to yellow alerts, signs, and intuitions. They never fail you. If it doesnt feel good, keep moving forward.
But why not experience marriage?
Have your rules. Have your break list. Ex: DRug and disease FREE. No habits. No anger issues, ect.
You have enough time to LEARN about people. But if you wait to long, on a person who has 80% of what you LOVE, you will lose them.
Just my opinion.
Have fun. LOVE. live. LAUGH.
Shoegirl says
Yes, I think people marry for the wrong reasons. I think people allow their gonads to drive the bus. Everything feels so good when you meet someone you are attracted to and have great chemistry with. It can cloud the judgement, especially after sex. Slow down, smell the roses. Love is more than a feeling, it’s a conscience decision.
Miranda says
I belive the contrary when it comes to waiting for a year or more before marriage, I think that when you truly meet “the one”, you know it right away. My parents married after only three months and have been happily married together now for 26 years. I just got married this year at 24 and we only dated for 8 months prior, we were a little past 2 months when he proposed and I said yes ( I have been proposed to before and said no). I think it has a lot more to do with values and compatibility. From the first date with my now husband I knew I could marry him, we virtually lived together from that first date, and even though he had his house and I had mine, and we never said “lets live together” it just ended up that way. We were always with eachother so there was nothing to hide from eachother. We didn’t even have sex with eachother until we got engaged, but we spent every night together and became close friends. It’s a undescribable connection, but its undeniable when u finally feel it for sure. We are different in many ways but that is exactly what made us so compatible. When faced with trying situations we both wanted us to make it, and both put forth equal efforts. We knew we loved eachother without it even have to be said but it shows through our actions. When it came time for us to marry neither of us had any doubts, it was a carefree and peaceful day. What I’m trying to say is that true love isn’t forced, it just happens. I learned this the hard way after over 8 years of bad relationships and live in boyfriends. Usually you get the feeling its not gonna work within the first 6 months of the relationship, and it’s only when I didn’t listen to my instincts and walk away,instead forcing a try at the relationship hoping it will change, that I unded up unhappy. Following your INSTINCTS (that feeling in your gut) is neccesary. Another thing is loving yourself first and truly knowing what YOU want and not settling for less than that. Even when it means spending some nights alone. If you get sure in yourself, you can and will find someone who’s just as sure as you are if you just be patient. Hope this helps =).
** To add I also believe you must have a concious and mutual want to work through any adversity and stay together. If you are to easy to give up, or he is, you won’t make it. Marriage isn’t easy, but if you both determine you want to stay together, not matter what happens you will, but you BOTH have to want it and be willing to work hard for it. My parents say they look at their marriage as if divorce is NOT an option, in my dad’s words “it’s cheaper to keep her” so they both do whatever they need to do to make it work (in all my life with my parents I never suspected or heard allegations of either one cheating either.) So will-power and persistence goes a long way.
SS says
I actually agree with Jack. 😉
I think the “issue” today is the fact that in most Western countries, marriage is an institution entered by choice, and expectations of a spouse are much higher (by both parties) than they are in nations where life is a miserable, brutish existence and people are doing well simply if they aren’t homeless, starving or under attack.
Because we expect a lot from our marriages, we’re disappointed a lot more easily when things go wrong. We also live longer than our ancestors did, and the idea of spending decades in a miserable situation is something we understandably choose to avoid.
I don’t think that spending a longer time getting to know a person during the dating process makes much of a difference at all — the success or failure of a marriage depends on both parties’ willingness and commitment to stay together through growth, change, crisis and other challenging times. (Of course, if a partner turns abusive toward the other partner or abuses his or her body with alcohol, drugs, etc., that’s another story as well.)
I find that modern-day arranged marriages seem to last because the parties don’t go into the marriage with expectations that the other person must make him/her happy, excite them, be compatible on certain scales… the goal seems to be the continuation of family and communal lines and the raising of children. If a couple goes into marriage with that mindset alone, they’ll probably last because the expectations are basically to be content.
I’m trying to find the midpoint between my Western mentality and the more historic intent of marriage so that I find happiness and a fulfilling marriage simply by being content with what I have in life and in a partner.
LD says
Arranged marriages are highly correlated with societies or cultures that also do not allow for easy access to divorce. All the things that SS says might be true, but its hard to know because in many instances lack of divorce rates might not actually represent true happiness in marriage.
Steve says
What do people think are the important things to have in common? The experience of finding someone who is perfect “on paper” ( online ) with all of the things you want only to meet them and have it fall flat is a cliche. Then there are couples who have little in common, but their personalities fit so well together things work.
In other words, what does being compatible really mean?
Yes, for the reasons mentioned date at least 3 year before getting married and add a 5 year waiting period after that before having children.
Selena says
I’ve come to believe compatibility of personalities is the most important criteria in a good relationship. It’s not necessary to have tons of interests in common, or to share all the same attitudes, values, philosophies. But the ability to understand where your partner is coming from, and to be okay with it – leads to far less conflict.
Nicole says
@L.D. #19 Thanks for making that point. A lot of people like to suggest that people raised in Western cultures are more narcisstic and have unrealistic expectations about what a marriage should be. But we only have to look back a generation or two in our own cultures where long marriages where the norm, where divorce was frowned upon, and where women had no financial independence to understand that dynamic. People didn’t stay married because they were “better” and less selfish. I dislike the characterization of people who divorce as being too lazy to do the work of marriage or too self-centered to adjust to someone else’s needs. It’s not that simple.
Getting divorced in many of those other cultures results in being disowned by family, elimination of any future marriage prospects, loss of children, and being an overall outcast in society. Who would get divorced if those were the stakes? And how could anyone suggest that is better? People in those cultures stay married whether the offense committed by the spouse is adultery, abuse, or some of the supposedly “trivial” reasons that people in the West have for ending marriages.
I think getting married in a society where everyone is expected to be married make finding a partner easier, and yes, expectations are different, but I wouldn’t laud it as the ideal, and I’m sure as many of those people would get divorced if it was an option as do in other cultures.
And while we are on the topic of people getting married for the wrong reasons, I’d say that expectations of family and society are high on the list in some cultures, and I’m not sure why anyone should feel pressured to be married to feel normal.
I don’t know…I’ve heard from people who dated or lived with someone for years pre-marriage and divorced 1-2 years after. I’ve heard of people who married quickly and stayed married for decades. It seems like a lot of luck and then there is just the sliding scale for people with regards to what is a deal breaker and what isn’t.
People are complex. People evolve and change, and it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me that what worked for your at 25 might not work for you at 50, and if you still have another 30 years to live, why be unhappy? How is that selfish and why does that make you a failure? I don’t think you need to get abused or cheated on to feel justified ending your marriage, but so many people seem to act like those are the only things that give you a right to leave without being judged.
I do think that while it’s not a requirement in this society, being unmarried in this culture is hard. There is just no place for you anywhere once you reach a certain age (in my opinion, your 30’s) and have no husband or wife.
starthrower68 says
@ nicole 19, you make some very good points and i agree with many on here as there are many components of a successful relationship and marriage. sometimes we do divorce for selfish reasons and sometimes not. chemistry, compatibility, and character all play a part in a successful marriage.
SS says
@LD… I’m thinking of arranged marriages that I see in Westernized countries (U.S., Canada, Western Europe, Israel) among Indians, some Jews, etc…. not the arranged marriages that take place in traditional countries.
I know of Indian-American/Indian-Canadian doctors/lawyers/engineers/etc. who did modern-day versions of arranged marriages. Women and men who had total say in the process and some women who actually sought an arranged marriage instead of going through the Western-style dating system.
I obviously can’t speak of the true success of an arranged marriage among people living in insulated, rural, traditional communities, and I’m sure that even among “modern” folks, divorce is strongly discouraged and that’s one reason arranged marriages stay together.
On the other hand, one can ask how such couples judge happiness, and even whether they see a lack of happiness as a valid reason for divorce.
Nicole says
@SS,
Even for couples in the U.S. who are Indian American or Indians living permanently in the U.S., divorce is very taboo. The exceptions are those who are American born and choose to date like everyone else. But those other couples face the same challenges as anyone else, but even when divorce is available and they live here, they are still far less likely to consider it as a valid option. It’s not just people from the far East who live that way either. There are more religious and strict branches of Judaism where divorce is not an option either.
I know people who are just going through the motions and will likely do that until they die for that very reason. Some stay married in name only and live separately. Others just live platonic lives in the same house. And still others endure abuse and infidelity all because of what their families and culture says about divorce. The fact that they live here doesn’t change that. So they aren’t necessarily staying married for the best of reasons, or because they are naturally unselfish and willing to put in more work than everyone else. And love marriages do occur in those cultures even though everyone who sees an Indian couple assumes that they are a product of an arranged marriage. Some of those happy couples picked each other and dated. I have several Indian born and raised friends who made “love marriages” and some have parents who did the same.
I think that we tend to romanticize and idealize other cultures that we perceive (often wrongly) to have avoided the “ills” that plague our own culture. But all of those things have a price, and I don’t think any of us wish we had to endure a marriage until death at all costs.
I really think that where we get it wrong is that we think that longevity is a sign of a “successful” marriage with people who were doing the work and that divorce is a sign of “failure” by people who are selfish. The amount of time someone stays married does not tell us as much as we’d like to think.
starthrower68 says
@ nicole 25, i think your last statement about longevity not necessarily being an indicator of marital happiness is also spot on. how many rimes have we seen divorces among couples married 20 plus years (maria and ah-nold anyone?)? i would wager that even long marriages that are good have had struggles because we live in an imperfect world. i saw this subject as black and white and didn’t believe in divorce until i went through it. i used to say “aww they should have the character to work it out” and certainly character counts. but between the black and white is that vast expanse of real estate called the gray area.
SS says
Nicole @25
I don’t romanticize or idealize other cultures and how they do things, but at the same time, I don’t idealize my own either. I’m more than willing to study other groups to see if there’s something there (a mindset, a belief, etc.) that could possibly benefit me in my own relationships.
The concept of matchmaking is becoming more popular in the United States, for example, but it’s being done with an American twist. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that more men and women who are not of Indian descent, for example, are considering the concept of having a third party that’s not a friend or family member perform an introduction… but then, after the introduction is made, the two people will likely proceed to Western-style dating and marriage.
There’s no “perfect” system and the freedom to divorce can be very necessary at times. On the same note, for me to completely pooh-pooh what I see in other cultures by saying, “oh, well what they do has a price and most of those women have to endure marriage at all costs” isn’t very helpful either.
Generalizations don’t get us anywhere. I think we can learn a lot from the way others approach marriage (which don’t place “love” as the first priority), and we can also appreciate some of the benefits we have from “love marriages.”
Jennifer says
@Nicole #25
I also agree about longevity. I’ve never been particularly impressed by people saying ‘The Jones’ have been married for X number of years’- sadly, just about anyone can do a bid. I want to know if those years were, on the whole, satisfying, happy and if each person’s expectations were met, more often than not. But you can’t get to that with one simple question. And frankly, lots of people shouldn’t have married in the first place so hearing of folks in that situation that ‘stuck it out’ does nothing but make me feel sad for them. ‘Uncle Frank cheated on Aunt Myra for years, had a couple of ‘outside’ children, but he’s calmed down now and they seem quite happy lately. They stuck it out!’ isn’t a story I personally aspire to.
Jennifer says
When it comes to getting married, I can’t discount the importance of compatibility OR strong attraction. I think a marriage fares better when both elements are in place. Another issue that I think is key is expectations. A lot of people, unless they’ve given it a lot of thought, have no idea how many things they ‘expect’ their husband/wife to do or ways they ‘expect’ them to behave that are by no means standard- everything is so individual. Without laying these things out on the table and making sure you are on the same page, so many couples end up in the ‘this isn’t what i expected; maybe I need to try someone else/marriage sucks’ category, not realizing that the issue is they never knew/never made their expectations clear.
Jadafisk says
Ya’ll know that in most cultures with arranged marriages, male spousal infidelity is almost expected, right? It’s easy to stay in a marriage with a less than satisfactory partner when you’re still free to find love and sex with someone else.
Dina says
Very true. I come from a place where arranged marriages are common, and cheating does happen a lot, esp. on the part of males.
Nicole says
@SS #27,
Indian arranged marriages (at least among the educated more affluent people that I know) don’t take place the way a lot of Americans seem to think that they do. Now perhaps a generation or two ago, it was different, but my friends in their 20’s and 30’s get introduced to people that they can accept or refuse. And more and more are opting to go it alone and just date (although unlike us, they kind of involve their parents and families sooner I think). I even know a couple of people who got disowned for marrying outside of their caste.
They do very much work like matchmaking, but the courtsthip period is shorter (unless people are finding a bride long distance and need to deal with Visa issues). I’ve had co-workers call me over to check out the pictures that mom, dad, or auntie just sent them, and knowing how it works, I’ve passed pics of Indian friends that I knew were looking on to other Indians.
I don’t know anyone for whom the decision was made by anyone other than themselves though. And I know a couple of Indian Americans who turned to that system after failing repeatedly and just wanting to get married already(including one who had recently proposed to a long term girlfriend).
So the period of solo dating and sex doesn’t occur, but your parents introduce you to friends of friends and children of friends and you are free to accept and reject and then move on to talking to the people that you prefer.
I know “regular Americans” who have used matchmakers, and of course there are Jewish matchmakers too.
And really, in certain social circles this is more or less what goes on as well, but we don’t view it the same way.
Nicole says
@SS…
but no, I wasn’t putting their culture down or making generalizations, just pointing out that it’s different, and I think I know enough about it to see the postives and negatives. For example, everyone who wants to get married seems to get married. It’s not a matter of if, but a matter of, well, when I’m ready, I’ll tell my mom and aunt and they’ll get things started and I’ll be married a few months later. And those people seem to work to bond over things other than lust since they don’t get to “try it before they buy it” that often.
But I just think it’s important to note the pros and cons as we critique our own culture. And some things that you might be assuming are different just aren’t(so for example, skin color, education, and income are really important; fail in one of those areas and you get refused A LOT. I worked with a guy whose dad was merciless in his criticism because NONE of the girls that they found wanted to talk to him). If you are going to make the comparison, it’s important to be aware of all of the facts.
Jack says
From a realism point of view, basing the Marriage Decision only on Love/Compatibility is very idealistic. There are in fact a lot of serious reasons to get married, such as being pregnant, wanting children, getting health insurance, getting legal protection, getting a visa for immigration, and getting financial stability. Of course, we can also eliminate Divorce! Its not always easy to wait around for Love or perfection. If its moral to have children out of wedlock, people may prefer to have a series of Medium Term Relationships ranging from 2-7 years. Given our life expectancy, people want to experience and learn from more Partners. But I think its also important for Men and Women to learn to be better Husbands and Wives, in a marriage or relationship.
helene says
One important thing that has happened with greater financial independence for women and more accessible divorce is that people can now actually find themselves in a situation where they can’t justify NOT getting divorced! My mother had no career, few outside friends and 3 children to think of, so even if she had been unhappy with my father she would have found it difficult to live with herself if she’d walked away. My situation is the opposite – I have no children, a well paying job and my own circle of friends and support network, therefore when I find myself in a relationship where the terms have become unacceptable to me, then even if I still love the guy I cannot live with myself if I stay and accept his poor treatment of me! There is no way I can justify it in my own mind – if I’ve done my bit to make things work and he’s still being a poor partner to me, I feel OBLIGED to leave him! Anything else would be cowardice!
Dina says
Beautiful. 100% agree. I find myself in similar situation. When someone calls you names, repeatedly lies, or demeans you – despite the chemistry and the passion and desire to get married you MUST walk away.
Jason says
Women get married if they want to have children because having Children out of wedlock is considered immoral.
Because of the Birth Control Pill, women can try out multiple partners before deciding on a Husband. This gives women more choice and power, but it delays the institution of marriage for women, and the longevity of marriages.
This is good because there are more single women around!
starthrower68 says
@ helene #34, i agree with you. we’re all warned that men are opting out of marriage, and it may well be the case, i don’t know. women now have options too. because women are relational creatures, we can form friendships to get emotional needs met outside of marriage or a romantic relationship. i don’t think any of us would turn down a great relationship if we found it and its a perfectly legitimate desire to have. but i have learned its the “dessert” of life. it’s family and those friends that become family that are the “meat and potatoes”.
Jason says
@36 – I actually think the institution of Marriage is dying in a long-term traditional sense. Marriage is almost a commodity for those who wait forever to find the right person, or just want to sleep around with many partners. For those who were married, young, and pregnant, its so much easier today to divorce, especially after 20 years when the kids have left home. In the past, men married the first female virgin and had some kids, but would cheat on the side, while staying married (having an unspoken open marriage). Nowadays, women prefer divorce or might have a greater acceptance of honest open sexual relationships. Society has become more open about sexuality and Men have the freedom to increase their number of partners from more than just one woman, if they can afford it of course.
Darren Miller says
I agree, you should have dated your partner at least 2 years before you even think about marrying them. There can be so many issues and hurdles that arise during the first couple of years of your relationship. You need to agree with your partner when it comes to solving or fixing problems. If you jump into marriage too quick and don’t know how your partner reacts in certain situations, it could cause major problems and arguments.
Marriage is a lifetime commitment and you need to be 100% sure that you can spend the rest of your life with this one person. I know someone who got married at the age of 19 after being with her boyfriend for only a year. In my opinion, she was too young to know herself entirely let alone a guy she had known for just one year.
Their whole relationship before marriage was a ‘bed of roses’. I don’t believe that they spent enough time with each other to experience ‘normal’ couple problems especially seeing as they lived in different towns. They were still very much individuals as opposed to a couple. It’s no surprise, then, that the marriage lasted just 10 months after having a baby.
Dan says
While opposites attract initially, they repel later. Common values and goals is the right mix. ALso important are attitudes – self centeredness, fears, harboring of ill will from past experiences ( baggage ) needs to be cleaned out.
The time to begin marriage preparation is NOW, not when you are already in a relationship or about to walk the aisle in the church. No marriage should ever start with debt on either side. # 1 destroyer of marriage.
A goal sheet needs to be developed and signed off by both parties.
Marriage is collection of human emotions, mostly celebrating the exhuberence of not being single anymore. BUT – it should be treated MORE like a business where you have an orderly process of living down and an agreement between the parties.
Without these things, guess what? Divorce = 50% rate and climbing.
(Actually Dan, the divorce rate is falling. Sorry to intervene with facts, but they do matter. – EMK)
Sparkling Emerald says
(Actually Dan, the divorce rate is falling. Sorry to intervene with facts, but they do matter. — EMK)
EMK – Do you think the divorce rate is “falling” because marriages are getting better, or do you think it’s the economy ? I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I am in the “married for the sake of finances” category (although we are working to make our split legal now) And I’ve been researching, and there is an increase in couples who live separate lives but remain married for financial reasons. (Health insurance being a biggie, and that is the main one for us) So statistically speaking I am still “married”, but I am divorced in every sense of the word except financially and legally.
Peter 61 says
One of the young Punjabi women who calls me Uncle (by various links of in law marriage) was a very busy doctor and reached 28 without a boyfriend in site. She outsourced the job of finding a husband to a matchmaker known to her mother and aunties. They found her a young man she had known of briefly in the past, another doctor. Both seem very happy now she is taking time off to be a mother.
There are plenty of reasons for dating and long term relationships. However, reasons for marriage without children do not leap out at me immediately in a social democratic age. At the level of civil society, civil partnership seems more like it. In France, a seculr country for generations, far more civil partnerships are registered by hetrosexual couples than gays. So no marriage for older women or homosexuals. When it comes to religion, Jesus was clear. Sex, once, makes a lifetime commitment. Seems a bad reason for marriage. Celibacy is to be recommended to the unmarried. Orthodox Christianity is more forgiving.
Henriette says
@Sparkling Emerald 40
“EMK — Do you think the divorce rate is “falling” because marriages are getting better, or do you think it’s the economy ? I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I am in the “married for the sake of finances” category (although we are working to make our split legal now) And I’ve been researching, and there is an increase in couples who live separate lives but remain married for financial reasons. ”
I see this in my own social circle. Couples who gripe about how much they wish they could divorce but see it as a luxury they cannot (financially) afford in the current economic climate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/fashion/01Undivorced.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Sparkling Emerald says
[email protected]
I have scheduled an appt with a divorce financial planner for the end of the month, my goal is to start 2014 with a clean slate and to be completely divorced. This “separation” status (and it’s not even a legal separation) is really getting to be a thorn in my side. And an impediment to the possibility of another relationship. I know so many people who are in various “limbo” like relationships. Legally divorced but still living under one roof as room mates, living apart but still legally married for financial reasons, married but living separate lives under one roof, and happily living together (from what I can see), but never made it a legal marriage. So while the stats tell us who has the legal status of marriage, they don’t tell us anything about the quality of those relationships. I don’t know what legal status I want in my next relationship, I just want it to be HAPPY. 🙂
I finally have decided to get 100% divorced, and financial consequences be damned. The emotional turmoil is starting to outweigh any health care benefit I still receive under this marriage of convenience. Also, the financial benefits to me, could quickly turn into a liability, as my soon-2-B-X has been in and out of the hospital lately, and our insurance doesn’t cover everything. If he couldn’t pay his part, since I am still legally married, I could be liable for his portion of the medical care.
Henriette says
@Sparkling Emerald 42 – WOW – good for you! (I wasn’t referring to you in my post, by the way; I was just agreeing with your point that it seems as though now, more than ever, couples are remaining married on paper bc of issues like health insurance, high real estate prices and not wanting to have the kids travel back and forth btwn houses.) I wish you great joy and success in your officially single life!
judy says
Yes, I think many people get married for the wrong reasons. Here are some I have heard:
1. He’s a high earner
2. We get invited to parties
3. My family adores him.
4. I’m lonely and need sex.
5. It’s better than nothing (yuk yuk and thrice yuk)
6. If I don’t marry now, I’ll never be married.
7. St. Valentine’s Day. Sigh. (When I’m single, I just pray for it to be over, married woman – geez, he never buys ME flowers usually.
8. Life is cheaper for two (shared expenses, no singles supplements on holidays, social status and sometimes, companies consider you to be more stable when you’re married.
9. I can’t survive financially on my own (either sex)
I could go on for ever, except that, it’s nauseating!
Ruby says
Judy #45
I’ll add a few:
1. All my friends are getting marrried
2. We’ve already been together for two years
3. I’m not that thrilled about him/her, but I don’t think I’ll find anyone better
judy says
Ruby 46 – thank you.
On a more general note, it seems to me that my deceased mother and grandmother (and my friend the criminologist) were correct about having a long engagement period.
It’s during this time of say 18 months – 24 months, that you ask the right questions, and know if you’re compatible to the best of your knowledge.
2 years is nothing compared to a lifetime of being with the wrong partner, or an expensive divorce.
EMK – 39 Hi and hope you have a super day. Love the site.
Yes, divorce rates may well be falling and that’s a good thing. It may also indicate that people are not marrying at all. I prefer the marriage thing. In Europe, people tend not to get married but live together, or, even more frequently, they have a LAT relationship.
Lily says
I recently broke up with my boyfriend after more than two years. I am so glad I did not marry him!
JoJOe says
Inconvenient Love is LOVE
My friends wife, motor cycle accident at 27, she’s a paraplegic, he’s still with her because he loves her.
My sister, business problems, money issues, rebuilding, her husband backed her up supported her, got her on her feet again, because he loves her.
My brother, cancer, alcoholic, his girlfriend stays with him, supports him, because she loves him. He has no cancer and his drinking is now next to nil. Love ya bro! they are truly adorable to watch, they are over 55 years old.
My friends brother met someone while in Germany, couldn’t get back on the plane, cried to his bro. 15 years now, married, 3 kids, speaking German. HA. love it. That was one of my favorites.
My girlfriend is pregnant, 2 year relationship, he left her, why, because the convenience of having a “no drama” relationship suddenly became too much drama, he did not love her, she is alone.
As soon as I read “no drama” in someone’s online dating profile. I see someone who is a runner when things get hard. Foundation for love is the “drama”.
You’ll only know how much someone loves you with how they handle the bad stuff.
The good stuff is easy, it ‘s difficult times that really count.
And in overcoming them that the good times are great.
Watch the way people react to adversity, they scream milestones of answers about their ability to love and endure.
But first watch your own. How do you react when the going gets tough in your own life? That will give you the answers to the people to whom you will attract.
Be good, be helpful, be patient be respectful and persevere.
If you can’t be those with the one you’re with, you need to adjust your spirit or leave the relationship.
At the beginning of a relationship, identify your red flags. If you love someone some of these flags are manageable, forgivable and repairable. I’ve seen it! The heart wants what the heart wants. You can’t have a marriage of convenience. There is no such marriage. Shit happens, so you should have that loving feeling clearly rooted.
We often hear “He/She left me after 4 years and got married last month to someone who is “……….” I can’t believe it”
Why, because the heart knows. Not love at first sight, not a surge of fire in the veins, it just slowly creeps in there and becomes louder than convenience.
My ex lover used to call me his “mon mal incommode” which means “my bad inconvenience”
I still love the guy in my soul, but my nick name says it all. He did not love me to the core enough to handle the hard stuff. I loved the guy for all his inconvenience and there was quite alot. But he called it, and I’m glad for his honesty. He went back to his ex wife. His choice and I hope it’s working for him.
But finding the same love between two hearts. That is the mystery.
And I think if everyone can embrace the mystery, we become it and then the other walks towards you. I’m a believer, I couldn’t leave her if I tried..
Ooo.. now that’s living the dream..
Merry Holiday’s to all and to all a good (nah) a great life.
stephen obasi says
Marriage is very sensitive and beside you don’t just rush into marriage like that, marriage is just like a prison break so before making any decision u need to be careful. I prefer to marry my friend whom I can communicate because I believe after love sex comes, then after sex communication follows, so when there is no community the marriage can last.
BLah says
I’ve had that feeling of YUP they just might be the one…
But see I ask the same questions consistently in different ways and end up with different answers as time passes. As time passes your answer is MOSTL IKELY to change and the real answers surface. If they are not what you’ve spoken some what in the BEGINING then yup = don’t do it.
Kathy says
I think marriage should be a choice, why is it that everyone has to get married because they want to be together? Why is it that you have to live on top of each other too? In my relationship I specifically decided to live separately and not get married. Why? Because I liked my independence and space and as soon as you get married there is that pressure to have to committ for a lifetime. Which in my view, not healthy. I am ok with my arrangement of no marriage. Just wish most people could understand my viewpoint.
SparklingEmerald says
Then why are you on this blog ? This is a blog for people who WANT to get married. If you want validation for your lifestyle, go to a website for people who are single by choice. Do you go to vegetarian blogs and tell them that it is unhealthy to not eat meat ?
John says
Here is a fully comprehensive, scientifically backed exhaustive list of good reasons why men should get married:
End of list.
Evan Marc Katz says
…says the unhappy single man to the happily married man. Thanks for your insight. I’d rebut your argument but I have no interest in engaging with someone who doesn’t believe in the very mission of this website. Bye now.
Jonn says
Are you truly happy though Evan? Is every single part of your marriage perfect? Finances, vacation ideas, goals, direction of careers, sex life, how to raise children, chores, etc? Because if even one of those things you don’t see eye to eye 100% of the time, that’s called compromise. And when you have to compromise, that ‘s not happiness. If by single you mean in a committed monogamous relationship for over 2 years, then yes, I am certainly “single.” Not unhappy thought. I’m not constrained by some financial contract disguised as love by [enter name of state here]. I’m not sure you even know the original intention of marriage back a long long time ago. It was to secure, combine, and expand kingdoms…. err I mean for love. In fact it was illegal for non royalty to marry.
Evan Marc Katz says
Jonn, let’s put this simply: Not every single part of marriage is ‘perfect,’ but then, I can guarantee that just because you’re not married, your life isn’t perfect. Which sort of negates your point as you try to compare your life to mine.
What I DO have – more than anyone I know – is a life that I CHOOSE. I am my own boss. I make a good living and lack for nothing. I wake my kids and work out in the mornings. I work from home from 9-5 and spend quality time with my kids until they go to bed at 8. I spend 8-10 with my wife every night. My wife and I are on the same page with her role (stay-at-home mom) and my role (breadwinner dad who helps out a lot). We’re also aligned on sex and decisions surrounding our kids and social life. I’m not joking when I say that I’m REALLY happily married, which makes me a sound advocate for happy marriage.
I am thrilled to provide for my family – to have the kids college funds and our retirement almost paid for by age 45 – and I don’t think of myself as a sucker for doing it. My family is the greatest source of joy and meaning – as most people’s families are – and if you don’t get that, that’s fine by me.
Long story short: whatever compromises I make to be with my life are minimal.
Thus, I wouldn’t trade places with you – or anyone else – for all the money in the world. I hit the marriage jackpot and I’m determined to help other people achieve the same goal. If that’s not you, get out the way. You’re taking up oxygen that is better served on a marriage-oriented woman instead of a guy who needs to defend his life choices on a blog for women.
Marika says
It’s funny how people who want to ‘go their own way’ and not have other people’s choices forced on them keep coming here to try to force their choices on us committed minded people.
Why??
If you’re so happy with your choices, go live them. And leave us to live ours (with a little help from Evan and support from the community).
That’s why no one is convinced that you’re so happy, John. Happy people don’t seek out people to annoy and question constantly.
John says
Also Evan, just to do some math here. If you take 100 couples, right off the bat 50% will eventually divorce, so that’s 50 couples left. Of those 50 couples, only 17% will be in a happy marriage. That is 8.5 couples, but just to give you the benefit of the doubt you I will round it up to 9. So of the original 100 couples, only 9 will be happy. That’s 9%! If any other venture in life had a 9% success rate, you would walk the other way. If every time you took a plane you had a 9% chance to survive, you would never fly. If every time you ate out there was a 9% chance that your food didn’t have a cockroach in it, you would never eat out. But if your marriage is in that 9% chance then CONGRATULATIONS Evan, you are a 9 percenter. But for every 100 people you “help” with your blog, you are actually only helping 9 of those people achieve happiness. You end up ruining the lives of 89. So think about that for a second.
Evan Marc Katz says
Bad math, John.
First of all, it’s not a 50% divorce rate. Even if it was, the overall rate is skewed by under-25s who have a 75% divorce rate. By contrast, for college educated people who marry after 30, the divorce rate is closer to 20%.
Next, you seem to be of the impression that I’m like the pied piper leading people into miserable outcomes (marriage). But you’re starting with a faulty definition – that marriage is a miserable outcome. It may be for YOU. It may be for people you associate with. But it’s not inherently true.
I would think of it more like being an entrepreneur. Do many businesses fail? Sure. Does that mean you shouldn’t open a business and should be content making $39K in management at Walmart for the rest of your life? Certainly not. With risk comes reward. Among people who self-report as “very happy,” twice as many of them are married than single.
So yes, I’m helping people who want to reach a higher plane of joy do it with intelligence, wisdom and integrity.
Put it this way: if you look at the hundreds of happy couples I helped, I would be shocked if 91% of them were secretly miserable, which would be the result of your crude math.
Furthermore, as a man who gives advice, I am ruining no one’s life; in fact, I’m changing, saving and creating new life. If you can’t see that in your sad anti-marriage bias, well, I don’t have the time to illustrate that to you any further. Now go your own way. No need for you to engage with us starry-eyed dreamers who believe that we can be in the Top 1/3 of all relationships.
Ellie says
I would also add that the divorce rate is likely skewed more by people like me who ‘gradually slid’ from a bad relationship into a bad marriage because it just ‘seemed like the right thing to do’.
We both met after painful breakups/divorces and in hindsight hadn’t recovered emotionally. We wanted to be in a relationship again and were scared of being single. So we stayed together even though it was obvious from the start that the relationship wasn’t that great. Then for financial reasons we bought a house together. We didn’t stop fighting and living together didn’t solve that. But we were scared to change that so we stuck it out. Relationships are like those arcade machines where you keep adding ‘just one more’ coin. Over time you’ve added more and more coins and don’t want to quit because of the money you’ve invested. So instead of walking away, you keep adding ‘just one more’ coin. After 12 years of living together and still fighting, we were over invested and didn’t want to risk leaving. But nothing was improving so we tried marriage as a way to change things up. It just seemed like the next logical step.
There was no big romantic gesture and hours of serious discussion about what it all meant. Just a question and answer. I think our family and friends celebrated more than we did. Of course marriage didn’t fix anything and after the excitement died down we went right back to the messed up relationship we’d had before. Except now it was harder and more expensive to leave so the fights were much worse. We lasted just over two years before divorce came up. The relationship should have ended years before that, but we were both too emotionally immature and low in self esteem to accept that.