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I’ve often said that I didn’t get smarter when I got married; I got married when I got smart. Nothing illustrates this more clearly than this short video.
The very qualities we spend our whole lives chasing: in my case, younger, East Coast, Jewish, financially successful, intellectual types – are not always the best long term fit. In our quest to find opposite sex clones, we often ignore what’s most important: the partner who loves you unconditionally.
Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
Steve says
Dude, you got natural comedic timing and speak well. You can be the Tony Robbins of dating. Even if somebody isn’t dating they could probably enjoy watching you talk.
Heather says
Evan, you’re breaking my heart. I know what’s important in a relationship … it’s a special variety of friendship with a dash of ‘family’ thrown in. We cannot truly bond with someone unless that’s there, and I’ve been fortunate enough to have had this experience a few times in my life. But without sex it’s sort of pointless to marry someone. I was with a guy for 8 1/2 years. We loved each other that way, we were best friends, we cared deeply for one another, and I was attracted to him, but I couldn’t, physically, have sex with him. I could never psych myself up enough to go through with it after the first year or so. Seven years without sex … I didn’t need a psychic to tell me that wasn’t going to lead to marriage! When he did finally leave me, it was for another woman. (No shocker there!) He married her 1 1/2 years later. I continue to be <painfully> single. The moral to the story may be that I have some issues, but I’ve been in therapy and I sincerely believe that I should never be with someone long term again unless he turns me on a certain way. Comfort, shared values, compatibility, friendship, etc. – all definite must-haves in a relationship – I’d never deny that. But without sexual passion/chemistry – what is the point?
JB says
Hey Evan,love the short clips.You are working on making and releasing a DVD aren’t you? I never heard the CD’s you released but a DVD of your own would be great. You were great in De Angelo & Carter’s disc sets. Just wondering…………
Angelika says
Evan, I wholeheartedly disagree.
First of all, when I ask my grandma about love advice, she tells me how her father forbade her to marry a man she could’ve had a very good life with ( he wasn’t of the same religious background.) I’m sure glad that in this day and age I had the opportunity to say “next” many times until I found the love of my life.
Second of all, of course people shouldn’t have unrealistic expectations such as the ones you mention (supermodel, Top Chef, etc.) or base their relationship on insignificant ones (same taste in music), but I think most people don’t.
It seems to me most people want to feel comfortable to be themselves in a relationship; have fun, passion, chemistry, friendship, shared values; and share other areas of their lives that are important to them (like travel, for example.) And why shouldn’t they continue looking until they find someone who has all of the qualities that are important to them, including “being weak in the knees”?
I see people everywhere settling and leading unsatisfied lives because they let go of the qualities that are important to them, passion being a big one. I’m willing to bet that if you found someone with friendship and compatibility, plus strong chemistry and passion, you’ll be together for a long, long time.
Evan Marc Katz says
Angelika,
First of all, the point of the video was to ask someone in a happy, 40-year marriage, what her secrets were – not to talk about the oppression of your grandma. Second of all, you don’t think people have unrealistic expectations? Think again. Refusal to compromise is #1 and #1A as to why most of my clients (and friends) are single. Men focusing on looks over kindness. Women focusing on money and brains over emotional availability. It’s not an either/or, of course, but looks without kindness is useless. Same with success without consistency. Yet if you look at most people’s repeated dead-end relationships, they’ll tell you the same thing, “I can’t help what I’m attracted to!” That ranks with “I can’t stop smoking” and “I can’t stop philandering” as lame excuses for consistently poor decision making.
At least we can agree that people want to feel comfortable enough to be themselves in a relationship. However, letting go of the “weak in the knees” feeling doesn’t mean leading an unsatisfying life, I assure you. However, if YOU think it does, then, by all means, keep chasing that feeling. Just know that you might be chasing an illusion. And when you catch it, you’ll see that 99 times out of 100, it goes bad.
Finally, I don’t know where you get the idea that giving up INTENSE chemistry is the same as giving up ALL chemistry, but, seriously, y’all, give it a rest.
Just because I’m trying to eat healthier doesn’t mean I NEVER eat red meat or chocolate. Why is the concept of moderation so hard to integrate into dating?
It’s pretty simple. Like the Tao, always looking for the middle ground. Go for someone smart, but not brilliant. Someone successful but not mega rich. Someone attractive, but not smokin’ hot. Go for the attainable and giving “7”, not the aloof and unavailable (and fictional) “10”.
What’s so hard to get about this?
Wait, don’t answer that. Really. It’s a rhetorical question.
Mikko Kemppe - Relationship Coach says
I don’t think most of us today are looking to have the same type of relationship that many of our grandparents have/had.
It used to be expected that sex and romance died after a few years into a marriage. Romance or sexual passion was not really expected to last.
In not so distant past, relationships were often not formed based on fulfilling our emotional and personal needs, but more for survival.
Unfortunately, the truth is that relationships that are based merely on surviving, won’t usually survive anymore. Most of us want much more from our relationships today than we did in the past.
Times used to be much tougher financially and many other ways. As a result, many of our grandparents sacrificed a great deal. Most of them did not have the same opportunity that many of us have on spending so much time on self-discovery and exploring our different relationship wants and needs.
My point is that while our grandparents might have great wisdom to pass on to us in many ways, I think it is always important that we understand the context in which any advice is given.
There are many who have stayed in a miserable marriages for their entire lives for the sake of their children and family, for example.
While these might have been noble sacrifices, many of us are simply not willing to sacrifice our personal happiness for the sake of a marriage anymore. More years together don’t necessarily equate to a more successful relationship.
While I have great respect for my grandparents as well as my parents and the relationships that they have (all of my grandparents are still alive and married), I know that the advice that they give me on how to create a successful relationship would definitely not work for me.
Steve says
I see this subject on this blog come up over and over again. I think it becomes an argument because people take each side to a nonsensical extreme.
I don’t think Evan is advising people to marry a bowl of plain oatmeal. Just to have high standards that are rooted in planet Earth.
sayanta says
Evan-
LOL- you’re last line had me rollin’
Leftos says
Very insightful approach and perspective Evan. We’ll point some of our users to this video.
Angelika says
I think Mikko Kemppe explained my point better than I did.
I’m not saying that we should only chase passion. I am saying, however, that we should chase passion, and friendship, and kindness, and looks, and shared values, and whatever else is important to us – all of it (provided that our list doesn’t only include supermodels and billionaires 🙂 )
I strongly believe that it is entirely possible to find someone who matches all of the qualities on our realistic criteria. And I speak from experience. It took me a long time to find someone who had 10 0ut of 10 on my list, but I finally know what true happiness with a love partner feels like. I wish more people out there would not stop until they found their 10 out of 10.
sayanta says
Mikko-
I agree with what you’ve said- as for the sacrificing by staying in marriages for the ‘sake’ of the children, there are plenty of children (now adults) who wish their parents had gotten divorced. It’s hard to really know which one’s worse- watching your parents hate each other in the same house, or watching them hate each other in family court.
Angelika-
I ask this to everyone on this blog who’s met their ideal match- how did you meet your 10 out of 10? 🙂
Evan Marc Katz says
@sayanta
I met my 10 out of 10 by compromising, giving up intense chemistry, and resisting the urge to find someone younger, smarter, wealthier, and with the same exact interests as I do. I married the greatest woman in the world because I cherish who she is instead of focusing on what she isn’t.
As to how we met: I was at a potluck dinner party trying to make the hostesss jealous. True. She was Italian, successful, sophisticated and sexy as all hell. We’d gone out twice and she’d blown me off but wanted to stay friends. At her house, I talked to a couple of 37-year-old divorcees all night – not because of any intense passion, but because they were pleasant company. 22 months later, I was married. Go figure.
To everyone who thinks that compromise means unhappiness, think again. I’m the happiest married man that I know. All because I opened up to a different kind of partner than I’d been chasing for 35 years.
You can dismiss this out of hand, but I came to this conclusion by being a dating coach and listening to thousands of picky people who felt that they were too good for everyone. Turns out that I – the know-it-all-single-dating-coach – was just like them. Once I tapped into my own humility and realized that I would be lucky to find a woman who loved me unconditionally, I was able to find one who did.
It’s not a coincidence. All of you folks who talk about awful, passionless, dead-end relationships, you’re still not embracing what I’m actually saying. You can compromise without settling. In fact, you must.
As stated, I made a few compromises. So did my wife. Together, we are blissfully happy and wish everyone could experience what we have. But the ONLY reason we’re able to experience this is because I changed my tune – from being the most arrogant “need to have everything on my checklist” single guy to embracing the behavior of my amazing wife, who embodies how unconditional kindness trumps all.
The reason I talk so much about change is because I believe in it, I lived it, and it works. Want to find love in 2010? Try doing things differently than you were doing them before.
You may just be surprised at what you find.
sayanta says
Evan-
thanks for the post- btw, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, it’s just that I also liked Mikko’s points.
Heather says
Evan, you didn’t compromise at all. You found the person who made you realize that there could be a perfect 10 who didn’t match your ideal vision – someone who made it a hell of a lot easier to change your mind about previously rigid requirements. That is called ‘falling in love’. I’m beginning to think that people who have the fortune to be able to get dates on a regular basis can’t begin to understand what life is like for those of us who cannot. Having too much choice makes things even more difficult than having none. Of course when you experience love with someone who isn’t your dream person you are amazed!
I turned 37 today. I went to Disneyland with a friend and his girlfriend. It was both refreshing and bittersweet to be around a couple like that. I just keep thinking to myself, “Why does it happen for everyone else, but never for me?” People accuse me of being negative, but I’m simply observing the reality of my life. I’ve had sex twice in the past 2 1/2 years and neither of those encounters were with men I had any real desire for. If you want to know what compromise is – it’s sleeping with the first person who offers because you haven’t gotten any for over a year! I am currently going on 15 months of celibacy and I’ll be damned if I make that compromise again.
Every time I complain about my situation someone finds a creative way to trace the blame back to me. It’s the Law of Attraction (I’m putting out the intention of not finding love because I believe that I never will find it.) Or, it’s my lack of confidence – how the f**k am I supposed to have confidence if I keep having the experiences I’ve had? And then there’s the ever-insightful ‘You need to change something if you want results’ – another way of saying, ‘Heather, you simply are not worthy of what it is you truly want, so you’d better start looking for something else instead.’ As if it didn’t hurt enough already that I constantly attract losers, repel the men I’m attracted to, and have lost pretty much all hope of ever getting a date, let alone finding love.
A friend of mine tried to introduce me to one of his single male friends at a party a few weeks ago. Apparently he had shown my picture to the guy and he seemed interested. But at the party, the guy very cordially maintained a distance from me all night long. Not that I cared that much what he thought of me, but why WHY does stuff like this keep happening to me? I’m not bad looking, I don’t bite, I am a decent human being with a good job and my own apartment – why do men run away from me? I don’t like being single, it sucks!
Sorry to always go on ranting about my problems here … but I’d rather do it here than on Facebook where it could be really embarrassing to me.
Kristyn says
Happy Birthday Heather.
It sometimes does suck to be single in a “coupled” world. Of course, sometimes it sucked to be relationship so I tend to think that life is just hard sometimes.
But I know what you are feeling. I’ve been single for 2 years and I thought by now I would have had a relationship but I really haven’t. And sometimes I let that thought invade my head (very self defeating). But Evan didn’t find someone for a long time. It doensn’t happen overnight (except for the occasional few – Honey). But then I also realize that if a relationship were the goal – I’d be in one. I want the right one for me. And if I can find what Evan has, what Honey has, what those couples who are happy have – THAT IS WORTH WAITING FOR. I do have to do things to help that happen, be out in the dating world, meet new people, be open to possibilities, give people a chance to show me who they are really.
Evan – my question is this: Do you think the other women you dated would have been able to love you unconditionally if given the chance? Do you think you passed up other possibilities because they didn’t meet your criteria (list) but they did have the unconditional love characteristic?
Kristyn says
I hate it when I have finger seizures – doesn’t, doesn’t, doesn’t.
Jessica says
To Heather post #14,
I am sorry to hear you’re feeling so bad. You are right, being single and celibate sucks. But you are 37…may I suggest you seriously try online dating? I did, and a great picture made a difference in how many dates I had…And, did I mention that I live in a country with only 26 million people, where at least half of those are living- in- shacks poor, with awful political turmoil that is making the “best” people leave for good, where more people die here from crime than in the war in Afghanistan, with a limit on how you can unse your credit cards over the internet? And I am 40, currently dating exclusively, me, a single mother working at 3 places because my daughter’s dad is a deadbeat who lives in your country…so, take it from me! You are younger and have the benefits of not living in a third world country, oh, you have OPTIONS! Even if you live in a tiny town, the USA is a BIG country…take advantage of that! Best of luck.
Joe says
If you’re not happy being single, it’s pretty obvious to others, and desperation is not attractive.
Diana says
I went Christmas shopping (and I survived :)). I couldn’t help but notice that nearly everyone was shopping with someone snugly in tow; mostly couples and families. After a few hours of noticing, and my thoughts drifting with the sentimental Christmas tunes, I started to feel a tinge of loneliness creep in. And then I thought that everything is not always as it seems on the surface. Not to imply anything about your friend, and his girlfriend, but I realized that appearances can be deceiving. While surely some of the people were blissfully happy, others could be going home to empty hearts and fights over how much was spent. It’s hard to be single in what always appears to be a coupled world, especially during the holidays.
I try to not think about the “how long have I been celibate” issue, as it makes me feel worse. I do know that I have boundaries and I will stay that way until the right time and situation presents itself, which I guess means forever [lol]. For now, I take comfort in all the blessings I do have.
I wish there were an easy answer to all of this for you. Happy belated birthday Heather!
Heather says
Joe,
I tried being happy single. I think it is a farce. Everyone who emphasizes this as being a sign of desperation is male, you just don’t understand what being in a relationship means to a woman like me. If I was desperate I would be with someone, he wouldn’t be the guy I want to be with, but I wouldn’t be alone. Nobody ever congratulates me for making a life for myself, having a somewhat successful career, or having the strength to face life alone in a world reeking of happy couples. It’s always: “Do you have a boyfriend?”, “Are you married yet?”, “Anyone special in your life?” Not to mention I came into this world wanting to love and be loved. I am not weak, I am sick and tired and fed up and beaten down. I just write about it here (ad nauseum) because I’m venting. I don’t know what else to do at this point.
Heather says
And furthermore, I blame phenomena like Disney for promoting this whole dreams/fantasies can come true and there is a Prince Charming out there for all of us ‘Princesses’. Total B.S. in the face of reality. Every time I find myself going down that magical path of believing in love I end up getting some ugly unpleasantry in its place. Life is just a series of unhappy lessons, particularly the love part of life.
At my age I know that my options are limited and that the likelihood of finding love hinges on one key thing: being open and giving people chances (ie. ‘settling’.) Nobody ever gave me a chance or opened their heart to me when I asked them to. It’s totally unfair that I should be asked to do that. I’m not backing down.
Evan Marc Katz says
@Kristyn – I ABSOLUTELY passed up some amazing women when I was single and in my early 30’s. I hadn’t learned the hard lessons yet – and perpetually sought out the most impressive women, instead of focusing on the ones who made me feel the best about myself. It is from this place that I offer advice – not from some married man pedestal. I am just like all of my readers – the only difference is that I tried to stay positive and go on a date or two every week whenever I was single. Eventually, if you do that, good things will happen.
Heather says
Uhm … assuming you can get one or two dates a week! 😛
A-L says
Heather,
Happy birthday! I’m sorry to hear that you’re down in the dumps right now. I do have to agree with Joe though that it’s obvious when someone feels desperate, and it’s not attractive. And desperation is not only for single women, I’ve seen it in the men as well.
I’ve spent that vast majority of my life single and I don’t feel as though the world is just for coupled-up people. I think you’re more sensitive to couples issues, and that’s why it seems that way. If someone asked me if I had a boyfriend I’d just say “no” and 95% of the time think nothing of it. It’s as though someone’s asking you if you have a dog, or if you went on vacation over the summer, or any other question that can spark a discussion. But it’s not assumed that you have a boyfriend or should have one or that you’re unhappy if you’re not coupled up.
Also, I think you mentioned that you’re seeing a counselor and I can only recommend that strongly for you. If you only find a couple of men even worthy of going on a date with every few years then you might indeed be suffering from some Disney-influenced fantasies that need to be dealt with. And think of it this way. How many men did you encounter/interact with over the course of these years. 200? 500? 1000? More? And only 3 or 4 have captured your interest? If the men you’re interested you criteria as strict as yours than odds are excellent that they will pass you by as well. Just something to think about.
Ruby says
Heather #20
“If I was desperate I would be with someone, he wouldn’t be the guy I want to be with, but I wouldn’t be alone. Nobody ever congratulates me for making a life for myself, having a somewhat successful career, or having the strength to face life alone in a world reeking of happy couples. It’s always: Do you have a boyfriend? , Are you married yet? , Anyone special in your life? ”
Maybe you’re hanging out with the wrong people? You SHOULD be proud of yourself for being independent, for not settling, and for your accomplishments. Congratulations! And no, 37 is not too old to find a partner. How about going on a couple of dates a MONTH?
I’m wondering if part of the problems is your negativity. You seem very down on yourself, despite the fact that you have, in fact, accomplished so much on your own. Those strengths can and will carry you through life, whether you are in a relationship or not. Obviously, confidence is always more attractive than unhappiness. A man can’t make you believe in yourself if you don’t.
I haven’t found “the one” and I’m older than you are. But I also know that if I give up, it never will happen. And with the divorce rate around 50%, I hardly think that ALL the couples in the world are happy ones.
Heather says
A-L:
I DO think about those odds – I live with them every day. Why do you think I’m so down?
I don’t know how you escaped the desire to have a mate, but congratulations to you on that! I’ve found that my life simply isn’t much fun when one is ‘alone’. Call me crazy but a lot of the things I want to do in life (like travelling, buying a house, having sex, bonding on an emotional level) just seem like they’d be better with a partner. It sucks even more if you can’t even have fun as a single person.
My entire life I’ve dreamed of my perfect mate – not a perfect man, but a man who is perfect for me. He isn’t a 10 and he doesn’t have $1 million in the bank. He’s like me: smart, creative, shy, misunderstood and unique. He distrusts religion, dresses in black, and thinks weird stuff is really cool. He doesn’t want to grow up and be a square but he knows how to take care of himself. He’s somewhere between a punk rocker and a nerd and doesn’t like small children at all. And if you met 10,000 men you’d never find a single one like him. It isn’t easy to face the reality that he isn’t going to ever show up and be mine.
I only feel ‘alive’ when I’m in love. If that makes me desperate or pathetic, then so be it, I am. 🙁
sayanta says
Heather-
Happy b-day! I’ve been in your shoes- so I totally understand. I will say, though, A-L is always one of the voices of reason on this blog. 🙂 And I’ll have to go with what she’s saying. It’s advice I actually need to take myself- and she’s made some right on target observations about the whole couplehood thing.
I totally admit that I’m a huge romantic who’s obsessed with fairy tales (even now), and I’ve learned that the dreamy, creative, fall-in-love-easily energy is a beautiful thing to have, especially when you’re among ‘practical’ results-oriented people. But, I think the best thing to do is to channel that energy into other creative pursuits, just for sanity’s sake.
And one more thing- you’ve talked about how everyone seeks to ‘blame’ you for your problems. Well, I think ‘blame’ is a strong word, but the truth is we’re all responsible for the kind of energies we give off, and the way we come across to others. We’re NOT responsible for what others think about us, but that doesn’t really matter, does it? Not in the big scheme of things.
As you can all probably tell from my posts, I’ve had those ‘hater’ days as well- and while they’re not fun, after I get out of them, I’m always prone to spending a few days soul-searching and deciding what it is I’m doing, or could do differently, to attract different kinds of results in my life, whether it be in relation to jobs, men, etc. And I’ve always noticed that the thoughts I’ve had affect my interaction with men, or anyone for that matter.
For example, this past weekend, I went on a ‘cultural’ group activity. I wasn’t expecting to meet men, didn’t really care if I did, because honestly, this event was something that I had been wanting to go to for ages, and seeing it was all I really cared about. So…I went to this event in a really good mood, and there were a few guys there that I ended up having a REALLY good time talking with (i know, i know, right after I wrote my ‘men have no interests’ hater posts :-)).
Now- backtrack to last year, when I had gone to another cultural activity with a very different mindset. At that particular activity, I was in my “I hate all men, but at the same time I really want to meet them” mood. There were attractive guys there, but they all stayed far away from me, and needless, to say, I came home in a funk worse than the one that I’d left in.
So- how to explain this? Well…I’m not going to discount that the type of males that are in a certain event make a difference. But in my case, I am absolutely certain that my easygoing mood this past weekend prompted those guys to talk to me. And I was having an awful hair day on top of that! Whereas last year, when no men had talked to me, I’d gone to the event looking like a total hottie (not to sound high on myself, just making a point).
So…this is the thing. You’ve just posted a huge rant on how men just don’t like you, etc. So now you’ve established a certain mood. You have these thoughts of ‘men don’t like me’ going in your head. Let’s say for talking’s sake, you head over to Starbucks after typing all this. There’s five attractive, eligible men sitting there sipping their lattes. Honestly, do you think you’re going to give off a friendly vibe with everything that you’ve been thinking about men still coloring your thoughts? Probably not. I, for one, have been told by my girlfriends that I always have a huge scowl on my face after I’ve done ranting about men.
When it comes to negativity, I can be a huge culprit myself, so I understand. But it’s sad seeing other people go through this as well. I’m also concerned that you don’t believe you can have self- confidence considering your experiences. Only because it’s dangerous to base your confidence on external factors- it’s a sure recipe for heartbreak.
I don’t necessarily agree with every single thing that Evan says on this blog, but there is one piece of advice that he always gives that’s a goodie- “can’t change the world, you can only change yourself.”
I would modify ‘yourself’ to ‘how you react to things.’ The thing is- changing doesn’t mean there’s ‘something wrong with you.’ It means that you (as in all humans) are perfect in imperfection (a Zen parable talks about this), but that it’s necessary to adapt to the world you live in as long as doing so works for the highest good of all involved, including yourself.
And Heather, I really hope you don’t think I’m going off on you here, but I have to say something. I’ve read a lot of your posts. I can’t quote verbatim here, but haven’t you said that you’ve met men that you just couldn’t feel chemistry with, even though they were wonderful men? And that you have had boyfriends, and good male friends? Well, then obviously you don’t repel men. I think I know what you’re saying. Why can’t you have fireworks and companionship right away with the right guy instantly, this year? trust me, we all want that- but I’m learning, that fireworks can mean a lot of things- and that it can build instead of exploding at once. And sometimes you do have to bow to time.
Like I’ve said ad nauseam, I’ve been in your place (particularly in my mid-20s), and I honestly think that what’s always helped me is taking a break from men. Break meaning not even thinking about romance, dating, etc. For me, creative work, spirituality, meditation, etc. helps. It might be different for you, but I think maybe you might benefit from doing something that takes you away from thinking about these issues so much. Volunteer work, maybe?
I know that love and companionship are things that all people, regardless of race, religion, nationality, etc. cherish. But we Americans have been spoiled in a lot of ways. Because the standard of living is so high, and the average American isn’t faced with horrific conditions face-to-face in everyday life (dire poverty, torture, etc.) it’s very easy to get caught up in our own problems, brooding on them, becoming narcissistic, etc. That’s why I think it always helps to find a cause to work toward- not to sound like a goodie-goodie, but it can help you get out of yourself for a while and feel connected to the world around you. And when you do that, it can raise your spirit to the point where you don’t really want to brood anymore.
Wow- this was a long response. Hope at least some of it made sense.
BTW, A-L- I have to say, you’re younger than me, but you’re so mature! I’m always really impressed with your insights- you seem like such a calm, reasonable person. Your boyfriend’s probably thanking his lucky stars every day. 🙂
Heather says
Ruby:
A couple of dates a month? If I am approaching dating as grudgingly as I have been, should I even bother anymore? It’s like work. Not just work but the part of your job you hate and put off the most over the course of your workday. I have in my possession the phone numbers and potential leads for a few dates but I just can’t go through with it. I know they aren’t my type and I have reservations about all of them so I don’t feel too compelled to call. What am I supposed to say? “Uhm … I don’t think you’re my type, I have no clue what to talk to you about, and I’m a little bit afraid you might actually become interested in me, but I *should* be dating so I thought I’d call.” – ?
I am not a happy person and being alone isn’t helping the situation. It’s one of those vicious circle things. Having someone special in my life makes me feel like I have something to live for and it lifts my spirits. This is where therapy and advice have backfired on me: The more I learn about dating and people the more I realize how much of a disadvantage I am at. I’m depressed, I’m shy and I have very little self-confidence when it comes to sex or talking to men I’m attracted to. I’m attractive and easy to get along with and I have a ton of great qualities, but the most important things are lacking, so what does it matter?
Heather says
Sayanta –
Thanks for your thoughts, you aren’t going off on me. I’m just having a pity party here. It’s the holidays and I feel extra lonely. I can’t do a damn thing to change my luck right this instant so I’m going off on the world.
I don’t know about volunteering. I’ve thought about it, but I’m not a big fan of humanity (which is probably one of the root causes of my problems with men). Besides, I don’t have a clue what I’d do or where to start looking for an assignment.
Anette C says
I’m sorry for you troubles Heather I really am but here’s something that I was once told, and I’ve realized how incredibly accurate it is about myself( and pretty much everyone else in a modern developed society).
The only common demoninator in every single relationship, that failed…was me. It’s true.
Changing oneself, or looking for something different has nothing to do with settling for 2nd best. I think it’s more about getting rid of our tendency, sorry to say …of being a bit narcissistic and going for the person that we think will make us happy without really trying to make ourselves happy. It’s all about us, being happy. Never an extention of ourselves towards the other individual.
I see couples, cute guys very plain women , talkative people with quiet people, ambitious people with ambitious people, sedate people with athletic and active people and people that just looks so plain average you don’t get it till you see them interact with their loved one.
No-one is a victim, and if it’s not working..it’s you. It may not be a “quality” you have that is bad, it can simply be that you are going for the wrong kind of man. I realized this a few years ago, when I met a man that I really really came to care for in such a different way. I now know what it is I need and it is so incredibly different than I realized most of my life. And I was looking in all the wrong places.
The common denominator will alway’s be you. This is harsh, but it’s absolutely 100% true. So figure out what’s wrong and don’t be a victim. You may have to change, and I don’t mean..by getting a boob job or dating some-one dreadful. Your standards on what you are looking for, might be simply not what you really want when it comes to a relationship.
I can expand on my own personal experiences if you want.
Oh and merry christmas everyone 🙂
A-L says
Sayanta: Thanks for the compliments! If I’m not careful I’ll get a swell head and won’t be able to get through the door! 🙂
Heather,
Right now I completely agree with you and others that you shouldn’t try dating right now. Take a break and get your mind off of it entirely.
Volunteering is a great way to do it. Ok, so you say you’re not all that into humanity. What are you interested in? If you’re interested in animals you can try the SPCA or the Humane Society or other similar groups. The arts? Then contact your local theater/opera/symphony/museum/whatever and see how they could use your help. The environment? There are various organizations around, and the Sierra Club could probably direct you to some if you’re completely unable to find any yourself (the environmental groups where I live are quite local). If you’re interested in intellectual stuff maybe you might want to contact a high school to see if their quiz bowl team needs help, or they’d even be interested in having you coach the quiz bowl team. And there are numerous other possibilities depending on where your interests lie.
So, what if volunteering’s not for you? Maybe you want to take up a hobby like sewing or photography or acting (theater and comedy classes are supposed to be great at helping to overcome shyness). Or maybe you enjoy writing and finally want to take the time to write a collection of poetry or the great American novel. Maybe you say, to heck with waiting for Mr. Wonderful, I’ve been wanting to travel to X and then start planning your trip.
But don’t put things off until you’re coupled. Go traveling. Going by yourself is not that scary, or you could go with a girlfriend if the two of you have similar interests available time. I’ve traveled in South America & Europe by myself without problems, and if my boyfriend hadn’t been around then I would have done China solo too. If you travel by yourself then you get to see exactly what you want to see without having to accomodate someone else’s interests. You can get up when you want to, go to bed when you want to, and ditch the town when you want to. Or if you’re really not a fan of going solo then you might want to go with a tour. Intrepid Travel and GAP Adventures generally don’t have single supplements, which is nice as a solo traveller. There are other, higher-end companies that don’t have any either but I’d have to research them.
Also, don’t put off buying a house (if you want one). There’s no one you have to argue with as to why you prefer the house with the smaller garage but the larger kitchen (or whatever your priorities are). Then you can also decorate as you wish without having to negotiate everything.
Because it’s possible that not only are you interested in getting a significant other because you’re happier during those times, but because you’ve also been wanting to travel, or own your own home, etc. So it all ties up together in this big giant ball when those other things really don’t need a significant other to do. Perhaps if there’s not so much built up around couplehood that it will decrease the pressure and be easier to find someone that you want to be with.
Alright, this is turning into a novel too but just wanted to say that Sayanta and Ruby are giving good advice and that I hope things start going better for you.
sayanta says
heather-
well, you pretty much answered your own question, right? You hate humanity- of course that outlook is going to color everything in your life.
Humanity’s done some pretty shitty stuff, no doubt. And it’s very easy to hate people sometimes. But i think it’s also important to focus on the good things that humanity has produced- arts, music, literature, the Buddha, Gandhi, etc. It’s not that we ignore the hateful stuff, but that we accept that shit happens and focus on the good stuff. Trust me, this is something I have to be mindful to repeat to myself often.
And- I think it was your post- but didn’t you say that you got off a childhood of welfare and made a successful life as an architect for yourself? Well, that’s an amazing accomplishment. Have you thought about mentoring children/teenagers who’re in a similar situation to the one you’ve been in? Having a successful role model talk to them could do wonders. There are orgs on ‘Idealist.org’ that work with children like this- you’d have to do research.
Again, I’ve been in the pity party situation myself- and I know from experience that all you end up doing is hurting yourself.
Honey actually made a good point on one of the other posts- ‘happiness isn’t something that happens to you, it’s something you choose’- or something like that. I’m really trying hard to make up my mind to choose it. It takes a lot of mindfulness, though. like anything else worth doing, it’s work.
Jennifer says
Heather,
Happy Belated Birthday. I’m sorry it kind of sucked for you.
When you are in a better mood, i think you should come back and re-read these posts. You’ve been given some really good advice here. I especially like what Sayanta said about changing yourself cause you can’t change others; it’s not a way of blaming you, or saying something is wrong with you, but rather looking for actions you can take. Often times taking some sort of action is the only thing that makes people feel better.
If you exist, I believe a man that you could love exists too. The type of guy who is perfect for a girl like you is probably feeling the way you are- mad that he hasn’t met you yet. It’s fine and normal to go through times of feeling down/mad/annoyed/resentful/whatever, but you’ve got to try to make those time as fleeting and temporary as possible. Otherwise you are just burning daylight 🙂
So I get that you are in a bad place right now. I hope you come out of it soon and when you do come here and look at the advice from other posters with fresh eyes.
Ruby says
Just wondering where you got these phone numbers, and how you know for sure the men aren’t your type if you haven’t met them yet? How can you get into a relationship if you don’t even want to date? I’ve found dating to be a fair amount of trial and error before you find someone you click with. The keepers (or even semi-keepers) don’t tend to appear all that readily.
It may sound cliched, but again, I think you have to be (reasonably) happy with yourself BEFORE you try to have a relationship. Otherwise, you’re going to be very needy with whomever you are dating. You mention feeling depressed: have you ever been treated for that? Could it be a separate, physical issue that’s affecting your mood?
And Anette, I’m interested to hear more of your story!
Heather says
First of all, thank you all for offering me words of advice rather than condemning me. I can be a bit overbearing on this topic because it causes me A LOT of distress. Also I tend to think about it way too much, so I totally get where hobbies or volunteering can be an outlet for simply getting my mind off of the subject for long enough to remember that there is more to life than dating. I also think this wouldn’t bother me if I felt I had some sort of say or control in my own love life. My love life basically consists of getting rejected by men I want to date and having to reject the advances of men I don’t want to date. I feel like I’m trapped in a pool of irony and there’s nothing I can actively do about it. I’ve always been on the independent side, so I don’t crave a mate expressly for teamwork purposes. I just miss having intimate company and feel that I’m missing out on something very important in life.
I do acknowledge that I am the common denominator. I can’t just blame it on the guys I’ve dated, and I tend not to. I am very introspective and have been in therapy for a couple of years trying to address this and take responsibility for it, or at least figure out what part of my brain is haywire. The main problem I’m having is that every time someone (be it one of the contributors here, my therapist, a close friend or a family member) tells me I need to change something about how I choose mates/dates I keep translating that into ‘I can’t have who I want’. Then I get this vision of myself with some guy I’m not remotely attracted to but who is ‘good for me’ and treats me well … and a part of me dies. I can’t let that happen to me!
Heather says
Ruby,
I know they aren’t my type because I’ve seen their photo or they’ve been referred to me by a matchmaking service that sends me men who are so not what I am looking for that I am 99% sure I won’t be interested. For me, dating involves forcing myself to meet men I’m not attracted to, because most men turn me off. How I even know that I want a man in my life is beyond me at this point. I guess I look at other couples and want what they have, or I wish I had an outlet for affection and sexuality – I really miss being touched and being able to touch someone I care about. Occasionally, a guy catches my fancy and I am willing to do anything to make it work. When you go through life with no options, you need to know how to compromise. Of course, it never works, because you can’t force a guy to date you or be interested in you, and there are some incompatibilities you can’t ignore (try as you might). The odds are really stacked against me and I am painfully aware of this.
Depression: I’ve had it since puberty. It’s ruined my life, basically, but it’s also a part of who I am. I am being treated for it, but it will always be there, and I’m always going to be asking those around me to put up with it to some degree. I don’t like asking people to do things for me, especially boyfriends I am lucky to have and terrified of losing.
sayanta says
heather-
I wrote you a comment this morning- but I guess it didn’t go through- in short, I think you said that you’d had a tough childhood financially- didn’t you mention welfare? It’s an amazing accomplishment to have become an architect with a successful career after that. Have u considered mentoring teens in similar dire circumstances? It would be a good thing for them to see a role model who’s been sucessful. Idealist.org lists thousands of orgs that do this kind of work- you might wanna do some research.
If you hate humanity- well…that’s pretty much the root of your problems. It’s easy to get into that phase, but I think it’s important to remember the good things that humanity has produces- art, lit, the Buddha, Gandhi, etc. Trust me, it takes a lot of mindfulness to remember that, but like anything worth doing, it’s work.
Anette C says
Oh heather, you are really having a hard time of it. It can and does get better even with depression.
What I did, when I really realized nothing was truly working for me, is I decided not to date and not to look. Next year I’ll be possibly putting myself out there again(hence finding blogs like this!! Awesome work Evan).
It isn’t that I gave up on ever finding some-one. I just realized it didn’t matter if it took me till I was 60 to find that special some-one, nothing was ever going to change until I figured out what was wrong.
Yes it sounds like there are issues, and things you have to deal with. Let go of the dating. Spend some time on hobbies, but really really focus on the hobby that you feel you could be passionate about for life, not just something to fill the time. Try different stuff(I know its very hard to motivate yourself with depression). for me, it was growing things…lol!! I found growing vegetables from seed to be wonderful. Anything at all that tweaks your interest and when you feel like “it’s not worth it” push yourself anyway.I’ve also found exercise of the variety I like, to be really beneficial.
Start things slowly and start small. Tiny goals, and don’t berate yourself when you don’t achieve them. Just keep trying.
When I say the common demoninator is you, it isn’t necessarily a critisism of your person. It could be that you simply can’t find things about yourself that are likeable, because of an inability to view yourself correctly. It could be anything at all.
Make an agreement with yourself. Don’t try to date anymore. Learn about dating from a distance, and enjoy getting to know yourself and your capabilities as a young woman 🙂
A man will never make you happy till you are happy yourself. A man will just love you and inspire you to be the best you can be. And you will do the same for him, when the time is right 🙂
Heather says
Merry Christmas, People! And thank you Evan for letting me air my grievances here. I know I come across as a complete loon at times. Hell, I’ve been ‘banished’ from one dating blog for my comments (do you know ‘Moxie’?) so thank you for being kind enough to offer support to me in this crummy time.
I’ve probably stated this before but there are two things driving me to this current insanity. 1) I am getting older (thank you, Anette for referring to me as a ‘young’ woman) and I know I’m running out of time to do something about my situation. That’s where the desperation is coming in. 2) I found the man I’ve been looking for much of my life (I know that sounds corny, but look at my bizarre preferences in men) and he wasn’t so much interested in me. This has prompted me to up the efforts in my search to find a ‘replacement’ for him, because unrequited love is torture. I’m not finding anyone remotely like him out there and since I’ve been given a taste of that dream person I’ve lost interest in the rest of the male population. I used to worry that nobody would ever love me, now I worry that I will never be able to love anybody.
Anyhow, I hope 2010 is better for all of us. 🙂
sayanta says
Heather-
I don’t believe this! I was posting on Moxie too, and I wasn’t banned, but I had to get off it because she actually started insulting me and calling me stupid! LOL I was like….wow. That’s why I’m glad I found Evan’s blog- at least everyone here, including Evan himself of course, is respectful.
Heather says
Sayanta,
Pardon my saying so, but Moxie is a bitch-and-a-half. She didn’t ban me either, per se, but she was clearly frustrated and angry at the things I had to say. She kept dredging up this ‘question’ I posed to her, like 2 years before, and throwing it in my face every time I said anything on any of her posts. For some reason it was VERY controversial for me to state that most men don’t do it for me. She called me some names, and when I realized I was getting nowhere but more upset I stopped reading her blog altogether. Why feed that energy?
Seriously, if anyone here wants to feel suicidal about being single, just read Moxie’s blog! There’s no hope going on there and a whole lot of nastiness.
sayanta says
Heather! OMG- the same thing happened to me!!! Wow…seriously, we really do lead parallel lives! Yeah- um wouldn’t you think a blogger would want to be decent to people if they wanted posters to keep coming back? i don’t know…
well- this is the thing, it’s not that she started out that way- it’s when someone disagrees with her ‘assessments’ that things go haywire. That’s why I keep saying, I prefer to keep coming back here- at least if there’s disagreement, you don’t suddenly feel like you’re going to be mauled by online tigers.
Angelika says
Heather,
I’m sorry you feel so down right now. And I really feel for you because I, too, once thought that I needed a man to fill my life with happiness, to make me feel beautiful and more confident, etc. I used to feel down whenever I was alone, I really wanted to find love, I even moved to another country for a while looking for love.
I do agree with Anette C: you shouldn’t give up hope of one day finding someone who is perfect for you, even if you have to wait until you’re 60; however, it also sounds like you shouldn’t be in a relationship right now because you first need to get out of your depression, work on gaining more self-confidence and on being happy.
Ultimately, only you can make yourself happy, so you should focus on that. And when you feel happy and confident (qualities that both men and women find attractive), you can open yourself to sharing your life with someone.
I also think that it would be unfair to the other person to bring all these issues, especially the depression, into a relationship. Would you want to date someone who was depressed? I once dated a guy who was depressed, and finally I couldn’t take it anymore because I was tired of trying to get him to feel better all the time and I would start to feel down myself.
Everyone’s got their own path to happiness, as for me, I decided that I would work on being the best person that I can be so when I do meet my special someone, I’ll be bringing the best of me into our relationship.
So, I stopped dating for a while; I went to therapists; I read relationship books; I leaned on my friends and family and talked their ears off; it would have been great to have a blog like this to vent and get advice; I spent a lot of time by myself thinking, reading, doing things that I liked until I learned to be comfortable being by myself and happy with myself. And then I started dating again, but being a lot more selective.
A quote I recently read: “Strive to become like the man you always wanted to marry.” Or, put another way, it’s only fair that you possess the same qualities that are on your list of qualities to have in a partner. I bet you don’t have depression on that list. So, while you’re striving to become the best you can be, remember what Jennifer (#33) said, if you exist, someone like you exists out there, and I hope you find him one day soon!
Heather says
Angelika,
I appreciate what you are saying, but depression is not something you can just cast off like a bad habit. I’ve been doing therapy, reading books, blogging, soul-searching, talking to friends, etc. for two+ years now. I have refrained from dating, simply because it seems to be an activity I don’t get much of an opportunity to take part in.
I will be the first to admit I’m not perfect, but I am nothing like the women featured in psycho-ex-girlfriend stories I hear all the time. I take offense to the notion that people who suffer from depression don’t *deserve* to be loved, because that trait doesn’t make it onto people’s wish lists for mates. It’s like you just condemned me to love’s trash heap!
I am not looking for a man to bolster my confidence or make me complete, I’ve gotten over that. I lament that life is passing me by. I am regretful that this wonderful body I live in is going to waste. I am sad that I can’t reach out and touch the face of someone I truly love and look into his eyes and smile. I am afraid I will be old one day and looking back with the same regret when my body is no longer a source of pleasure and my time is up.
I’ve knocked myself out in life. I’m successful, I’m pleasant, I’m intelligent, I’m attractive, I didn’t do drugs or even drink for most of my life. My credit is perfect. Now I find out that none of that is good enough? Wouldn’t you be depressed too if you sacrificed and suffered all those years for … nothing? It’s like I spent my life scaling a mountain reaching for some prize at the top and when I finally got up there it turned out it was some dirty trick and there wasn’t anything there at all.
I’m 37. I’m old enough to have paid my dues and I’m not asking for the moon on a silver platter. I’m not content that my life should be devoid of a meaningful and close relationship with a man, because that is something I’ve always wanted. I’m tired of people telling me there’s something wrong with me for wanting that. Is there something wrong with all the coupled people out there for also wanting that?
I know I am worthy of love, I just can’t find the right person. I don’t know if there’s anything anyone can do for me, or why I even go on and on about this stuff. I guess I wonder why so many other people don’t have as much trouble with this as I do. I may have finally gotten to the tipping point where I don’t want to hear about it anymore.
Joe says
Heather, there’s a difference between wanting something and needing something. Would I like a million bucks in my bank account? Sure, but I don’t have a psychological need for a million bucks in my account. The fact that I only have a few thousand in it doesn’t make me unhappy.
Shay says
Heather, I feel exactly the same way as you and I am exactly in your situation! I’m 2 weeks away to being 30 and I feel like my life is flying by me without someone to share it with.
What I told myself is that, no…I don’t NEED to be able to find that special someone or to get married eventually. I think I should be able to survive without.
BUT I NEED to know that I have the CHANCE to do that. And to have the chance, I need to get myself together and go date some guys. My comfort at the end of my life would be that I had gone through the process. And I shall enjoy discovering myself, God and men in the process.
I gave myself the chance to find him and I gave him the chance to find me. If we never got to meet, it must be God’s will. I leave my life in God’s hands and trust that He will do what is best for me. (Sorry to the folks who are offended. Just my personal faith.)
Yes. I made an agreement with myself to be happy and contented with enjoying the process, collecting memories (silly, laughable, crazy, etc) so that if I am ever married and have kids, I can share with them…or just chuckle to myself when I am sitting on the rocking chair alone.
What I dread is that I look back at the end of my life and regret that I did not try…
Heather says
Shay,
I dread that exact same thing. I therefore made up my mind that I would not worry about outcomes so much as giving it an effort when it comes to dating. The funny thing is that since I made up my mind I would go for what I want, I haven’t met any men I am interested in. The world is filled with men I see as being so essentially different from myself that I cannot imagine dating or bonding with them. Statistically, it doesn’t stand to reason that I should ever find love.
I’m glad I’m growing weary of the topic – I just hope I don’t become this horrible matronly and sexless being in the process of living single.
Shay says
Hey Heather, I don’t think you get what I mean.
It was just a couple of months since I decided this and nothing has come out of it yet. But I’m having fun and looking forward to meeting men. I have decided to throw away my checklist of potential future husband and just get to know men first.
As I decide upon this, I just try to observe and get to know men in general. There are even sparks with men who are totally different from me as well. Nothing serious yet.
My goal is enjoying the process now instead of getting out of singlehood.
I find that if I keep searching for men I am interested in, I get disappointed that there is none. So, I rather be interesting and attract men who are interested in me. If they come, then I can decide whether anyone is interesting enough to keep. If there’s none to keep, at the end of the day, I’ll have an interesting life at least. Hahahha…
Heather says
Shay,
Good luck to you in your process! I hope it is fun and you learn about yourself too. That’s what life is all about, right? You’re at a good place and 30 is a great age to be!
I wish I could have the same attitude as you but I’m afraid my process of self discovery has yielded some not so great realizations about myself. I either have to change or continue where I am. I don’t think I can do it. I’m very insecure about myself in the manners that are specifically important to dating. I’m not comfortable in my own skin. I don’t know how to begin to change these things, and, thus far, my research and therapy have only opened my eyes to the problem. I have a long road ahead of me yet.
Shay says
Heather, no worries. I am not so steady on my feet on this either. I try very hard to remind myself of this each day. We can only try. 😀
May your coming year be filled with cheers, comfort and companionship. 😉
lux aeterna says
Heather, how are you getting on? I’ve read all these comments and would love to know if you’ve made any progress.